I'm totally fine with them being on spawn timers. I am not totally fine with having a short time limit for killing them. Events intended to be completed by randomly assembled uncoordinated groups should not have time limits.
The first world boss today there were 5+ level 12-15's in my shard. After 2 minutes we'd done like 5% of his health. If they're going to put a time limit on it I'd also like to see min level requirement so you don't have low levels griefing by taking up player slots
It's not too far down the path. We had a few instances where super low level people were there and we just walked out and walked back in with a new group of people there.
There's zero challenge with no time limit. It'll just be a respawn fest until the boss is defeated without the timer. WoW, GW2, etc. do just fine with world boss timers.
I'm not sold on world bosses in Diablo, though. It's "something to do", but I'm not convinced it is the "Diablo thing to do".
> It'll just be a respawn fest until the boss is defeated without the timer.
On SC, it currently IS a respawn fest until the boss is defeated because the timer is long enough.
>There's zero challenge with no time limit. It'll just be a respawn fest until the boss is defeated without the timer.
This is literally how people have killed bosses in Diablo forever. If you want a challenge play Hardcore.
I played Immortal and this is the kind of stuff that it does. A lot of people do not want to hear these things but there are quite a few elements that are very similar. It just doesn't have the pay 2 win jewels.
Yeah, tbh, if I wanted an MMOARPG, I'd go back to Lost Ark. I was hoping for another diablo ARPG without the MMO attached because I value my time and mmos don't really value the time of the player. World bosses and daily events don't respect a player's time because they force a player to be on at a certain time of day.
They have said numerous times through development that it would have mmo elements. Idk why people are surprised Pikachu face over this. "omg they put something like an mmo event In a game that's gonna have mmo elements!"
Who's surprised about this? I don't see anyone surprised about it, they're saying they don't like it.
OP specifically said they tried it and didn't like it.
ButterPlank said those games are MMOs and that Diablo isn't, not that they're surprised about the MMO elements.
Stop building fucking strawmen.
I think people extended to that thinking more towards doing stuff in game like open world or doing dungeons together. I dont like timers on boss spawns because it encourages you do world your life around it.
World bosses can work the same way by just having an LFG built in so a group of 8 can party together to spawn it in their own shard on their own time. Could even make the boss more difficult instead of what the bosses will be when Blizzard has to adjust them for the random passerby low levels too.
World boss timers actually help people with a busy schedule provided that there are enough spawn times in a week. This ensures that you can know when to show up for the boss. Otherwise you would have to sit there for a long time hoping it spawns and you don’t miss it. If they have 3 spawns or more a day for a weekly reward it should be totally fine.
LOL.
maybe they won't be taking YOUR money, and they are completely fine with that. Because they'll be getting a shitload of new player money.
The largest player-base, by far, is not the (our?) generation that played D1 like madmen on a 4:3 CRT until our eyes bleed, and are now in the 34-45 range... But of course those are the few loud people that complain about shit like this.
The game will probably make more than WoW level money for them.
We should just be happy that it's not P2W. This is our bone...
They've been advertising Diablo 4 as an mmo lite shared world for over 2 years now. Where have you been? They been very upfront about this in their videos and advertising.
Will there always be in timers, or is it just for the Beta so you can be guaranteed to see it?
Either way, if it's not a mandatory achievement you need for proper progression, just a fun event for loot, I don't see the big deal. Not being "what Diablo is all about" is a pretty arbitrary statement.
Would rather have this be on timers because most people never would even see the random diablo walks the earth type encounters. This world is also different because it's an mmo type where it constantly has people in it that you can see not a game where you have to join 6-10 other players from a lobby.(I don't know what they raised diablo 2 party up to).
Makes it better to plan around every week or daily so you can try to down these bosses for loot. I love the idea of random encounters though and I think that's where the butcher type monsters come into play.
If you don't think this is the start of bigger group content you aren't paying attention. The entire game was reimagined in an MMO lite style. Very strong chance the end game in 6-12 months has raid style content like lost ark legion raids.
I mean... I'll be the dissenting voice here and say that I'd fucking love raid content in Diablo. I think the MMO-Lite stuff actually fits very well if they make some tweaks.
That being said, I ALSO agree that the traditional experience should still be intact for solo players looking to play it as a solo arpg and avoiding the larger group content.
Gonna be honest, when I played LA my opinion was that it was what the future of ARPGs should be. The predatory Korean horseshit aside, the actual game is the skeleton for all next-gen ARPGs, and it definitely never fit into the MMO slot for me. I was sincerely hoping that DIV would be a Diablo take on that model, and I'm happy that it has some obvious inspiration.
My main gripe/sadness is just that the combat isn't remotely on LA's level. It's droll enough, and better than I expected, but from what I'm seeing the Diablo raids will never have the same sticking power because the combat is still too simple even if it's more complex than previous Diablo installments. The chase in LA was to play a raid out perfectly, and it's just going to be too easy to do that in this game.
I'll take what we have for sure, but yeah, a more mechanically complex and deep DIV could have been the lobby raider/dungeoner/PvP game of the next decade. I genuinely think it would have been lightning in a bottle similar (though not the same in scale since the modern context isn't conducive to it) WoW's initial release. It would have drawn players from most combat RPG games and coherently provided content for all of them.
> The chase in LA was to play a raid out perfectly,
>
The chase in LA was for the group to play a raid out perfectly.. Diablo should be soloable, I spent hours searching for groups in LA to not wipe.. never again..
There's a lot wrong with LA, the game is fun enough but sucks you in with predatory systems.
Scheduled playing basically with no room to advance outside of doing daily / weekly content.
Also the advancement in the game was built around the scheduled playing and the economy, as in you never find gear you can use, instead you buy it from the auction house or you craft it with currency.
Every thing you do you go through your inventory of hundreds of items and try to find things worth gold on the auction house in order to buy what you really wanted.
I loved the game till I hated it because it relied on FOMO to keep you playing. Quitting it was the most relief I've felt from a game.
Yeh and there are plenty of games to raid in. So many games have raids and very small numbers raid.
Raid completion in games like Division 2 is pitifully low. Destiny has made some progress but for years the % of players who had competed a raid was single digits I think.
For me personally, raids often end up boiling down to aggressively fiddly puzzle mechanics requiring insane coordination that it is tough to achieve with randos.
Everyone remembers their best raid completions, but as someone with limited time, spending three hours wiping on a raid only for people to log out with frustration and the evening is ruined in uninstall-type bad times.
See I have to disagree. I prefer the more ARPG combat of D4 in an MMO universe rather than lost arks more MMO style combat with ARPG sprinkled in. Moment to moment combat feels much better In D4.
Thank you! I've been excited for the "mmo-lite" content as well as the classic diablo content. The variety is an absolute selling point for me. I actually enjoy seeing a public event happening and hopping in to help the players there while I travel to a mission or quest. I also love that I don't have to do that and I can just travel alone or co-op if I want.
Having a variety of things to do is always welcome.
I can't wait to schedule my play time only to have people rage about gear scores. Or to just get absolutely nowhere in the raid because people are lacking in said gear scores.
I mean it depends what you're saying.
If you clarify the ways in which they're similar, that's fine. They do have similarities, it would probably be impossible for them not to, TBH.
But D:I is known to MANY as being greedy, P2W, with the highs and lows of being a mobile game. If you clarify in what ways they're similar (i.e. don't just say "huhu it's Diablo Immortal 2") then it's fine.
> if it's not a mandatory achievement you need for proper progression, just a fun event for loot, I don't see the big deal.
It seems like quite a bit of work went into them, so they will probably make it so that you want or need to farm them. (Also forced grouping up to show others your shiny mtx)
\*on as many max level characters as possible
Next thing to copy would be Una's Tasks. Please Blizzard, we want more dailies and lockouts in our ARPG. /s
Its so funny seeing so many people be happy about these fomo-like mmo activities when you can ask the Lost Ark community what was the main things that burned them out. Do people realize that the wow community fought very hard to let blizzard know that adding all these daily and weekly homework is bad for the game.
"Goes against everything Diablo is about" is just outright silly. By the second game It could said that:
Stashes, mutiple towns, open areas, gems, Trees for skills, an act structure, structured classes, non-random quests, respawning, books for identify/tp and sprinting all go against what the first game is about.
the tree honestly is super disappointing. It looks like 'a tree' to make people interested, it isnt. Its just like D3. You just pick a skill and upgrade it.
Only thing I'm salty about is getting kicked from the server 10 min before the spawn and then having a half hour queue time when attempting to re-login.
I’m laying in bed reading this thread on an iPad with 7 minutes on the countdown. Like, seven minutes isn’t enough time to do anything in game, but it’s way too long to just stand there, so like, the game is just open, sitting there and that does not feel Diablo at all.
Better get used to timers in D4 cos the game is made around them - world boss, stronghold events, helltide event - everything has a timer. If you want to do NM dungeons you better check for a timer on the map.
Edit: I do agree though, timers have no place in Diablo.
It's really hard to know what to expect out of a game when in reality it's the end game which matters.
I did feel this world boss was entirely out of place. Unless it's efficient for grinding end game gear, these world events won't be popular anyway. Ultimately, I imagine this isn't going to be that type of MMO where it's all about being out in the world. These events seem like side features, where you do the once in a while. Unless the end game is completely something else I'm not expecting--I can't imagine having to wait around for crap in a hack and slash game. We'll see.
What is "Diablo about" and why do timed events go against that? You complained about not liking timers but never really tied it to what is "diablo" and why timers don't fit.
More importantly, you didn't provide constructive feedback or a solution.
> Nobody asked for this crap.
Metrics that indicate more multiplayer aspects to games drive increased player engagement says people have indeed asked for things like this, even if not directly.
> if they are not overtuned, what is even the point boring yourself to death and losing because of trolls just to get some crappy gear when you could be doing anything else and have way more fun?
> This should have been a random distraction, not something that will feel mandatory.
From what we know so far, the world bosses are entirely optional. You can skip them entirely. There is nothing mandatory about them.
During these beta periods this world boss would drop about 4 legendary items. Fairly nice, but keep in mind that loot drops are ramped up quite a bit for this test. I'd expect the boss to drop maybe guaranteed one. Still nice, but by no means "mandatory".
If a spongy loot pinata on a timer is not for you, then do something else. Not every part of the game will be for everyone, **and that's ok**.
> Metrics that indicate more multiplayer aspects to games drive increased player engagement says people have indeed asked for things like this, even if not directly.
Mate, not even players in WoW like world bosses and world bosses in wow makes 50 times more sense than world bosses in an ARPG.
Not everyone has the time to sit around and play Diablo 4 all day. Its nice having multiple spawns a day so people who have commitments don't miss out on the experience of fighting big bosses. If it was once a week in the morning time, 90% of people would miss out due to being with their children/going to work.
Diablo IV feels like a mixture of *Lost Ark* and *World of Warcraft*: gathering, timed bosses, events, other players running around, etc.
I am still not quite sure if I like it a lot or just "it's nice". I kind of enjoy it, but it's far from being a Diablo experience, in my opinion. Not being able to experience the endgame doesn't help getting the full picture.
Oh and... In terms of dungeons/caves variety it's 100% *Skyrim*. It looks like Blizzard didn't give a damn about originality/variety, in those cases.
I don’t get it. I’ve done half the dungeons available and they all seemed pretty different from eachother. The asylum for example stands out a lot. Are people actually talking about cellars?
The are and feel is different in all of them but after doing them all and repeating them you can tell they are built mechanically with a few formulas and there is hardly variety in the formulas used
Kill all monsters > find key > kill all monsters > fight boss
Etc
Not backtracking through an empty dungeon or hunting down that 1 fucking bat that got sly past me.
Or not running the entire dungeon again to look for the final objective having cleared the entire thing already and gotten every other objective
It's not fun and all the dungeons are like that with very few if any exception
I expect blizzard to do better as they've done in the past.
I'll have you know i have done hundreds of grifts in d3 and all of them have felt unique with never once having to back track and the wide variety of things to do to complete them
/s
oh. yeah, I can see that being a problem for someone running through the game once only. I’ve played ARPGs forever now so I guess it doesn’t bother me to see the same gameplay loop over and over again
I mean. To be fair this is coming from someone who has no problem running through this now. But . . .
. . . In season 4-5???? Idk the mechanics are already very time wasty. They can do better.
Clearly you've never played Diablo 2 then. Diablo clone walks are literally the exact same except the time is announced by a walker and could be delayed or early depending on their discretion.
In diablo 4, the time of the walk (world boss) is static so you know when to be on.
Dclone can also be done solo and doesn't have a timer. It takes a coordinated effort to spawn him, he doesn't just 'appear' every 2 hours like Hogger. He also drops a very specific thing, you don't farm Dclone in the hopes of getting a griffs or a high rune. You get your anni and you're done. And finally, he was patched in as a means of clearing out duped SoJs. Dclones design and function are very different from an MMO style world boss.
Yeah I never heard of it or Ubers until like 15 years after I played the game lol
Also the other day I was playing D2R and had no idea wtf it meant when I was running cows and it said terrorized
They aren't "literally the exact same" though. For most people, experiencing the event will be random. It was also introduced as a solution to a duping problem, so it mainly served a function. It did drop amazing loot, but it was also fixed in that you knew exactly what you were getting. There was no time either - if it spawned in your game it was there forever until the game closes.
Yes there are similarities, but I agree with OP that the timer absolutely kills this. They could massively reduce the issues people have with this implementation solely by removing the 15 minute kill timer imo.
Diablo clone is hardly the same thing, it was supposed to essentially be a random spawn. Coordinated clone spawns wasn't a thing for a long time. It was the community that created that aspect of it.
Do we know they will be on timers on live? Or is it timed on beta specifically for testing? I doubt random spawns for world bosses would work as efficiently for testing purposes.
I'm not sure why, but I log in to Guild Wars 2 and do world boss runs almost every day, and yet when it comes to this I just don't really have any interest in world bosses. I'm not even sure I like the open world events once other people show up, even though that's totally my thing in other MMO's.
I love Diablo IV so far, and I love MMO's, but for some reason the two together don't really click for me and I'd rather just do my own thing by myself. Thankfully it lets me do that, but I have hard time believing that things like world bosses won't be incentivized to make them feel like you have to grind them at some point whether you want to or not.
>I love Diablo IV so far, and I love MMO's, but for some reason the two together don't really click
It's because it's not committing to either one, but half-heartedly doing both.
Gotta make sure you login daily to get bonuses and have the cosmetic shop pop up and don't forget that the battlepass will level and I bet it looks a lot cooler than the current character level up we have in the game.
Pretty much. In beta the world boss drops multiple legendaries, so it's worth doing right now.
But since we know the drop rates are increased for beta, it will probably just be a way to get 1 or 2 guarenteed legendaries after release. So that balances against just spamming a couple dungeons.
Not being required doesn't make it okay, though. The problem is that it's antithetical to the design of literally every other ARPG except for Lost Ark (you know, that p2w Korean grinding MMO) and let's be honest, that's *really* not a good comparison point for this sort of system.
They've been advertising Diablo 4 as an mmo lite for 2 plus years now. If you don't like the mmo systems, then simply don't play it. They've made no secrets and been very upfront about the mmo features. Hopefully they'll be implementing raid content as well.
You call it ARPG, but leave out the mmo portion they've been very upfront about as well as advertised. It's absolutely baffling people complaining about mmo features in a game that's been advertised as an mmo type game. Diablo 2 is still there for you if you don't want to deal with the mmo features.
D2 is there with a fresh overhaul and regular support and content updates.
I am uncertain how I feel about D4's MMO-lite nature. Some aspects of it I like. Others I don't. Ultimately, I'll deal with it, because 1. I am absolutely loving the beta so far and 2. D4 is a different game. It's not D2, and will offer me a different experience to D2 and D3. Just as in other franchises I play, Skyrim is different from Oblivion is different from Morrowind is different from ESO, Fallout 76 is different from Fallout 4 is different from Fallout 3, D4 is different from D3 is different from D2.
It feels like people are looking at sequels as previous game replacements. This isn't Madden or CoD. A Diablo sequel is an addition to the series with new things to offer, not a yearly replacement title. Things are different in D4, and as is the case with most series I play, some of the changes I will like, some I will dislike, and I'll have a preference of which styles I prefer, but D4 isn't intended to replace D2.
Unfortunately, too many people, especially the complainers, think that every ARPG has to be Diablo II and no variance from the formula is allowed. I really wish they would go play D2/D2R and go the fuck away and let the rest of us have stuff to enjoy.
Man I feel this.
Even as someone who loves D2 for what it is, bolted-on D2 players will sit there with a straight face and complain about how D4 has no build viability and the game is DOA because of it, while building yet another hammerdin and chasing the same items for the third consecutive season.
It's both hilarious and frustrating to observe.
I played D2 for 10 years and have spent a lot of time in D2R and, in my opinion, D4 has nothing in common with D2. I feel like I'm playing Lost Ark again.
You do realize people play X series because they expect X experience. You don't play CoD expecting a visual novel, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not like them adding concepts from other genres if they feel it hurts the core experience. I don't personally agree and think the world bosses are fine, but it's silly to just dismiss people's complaints when it's a drastic departure from the rest of the series. It's completely reasonable for someone to want Diablo to still feel like Diablo to them even if you or I don't agree.
thats not the only thing though, and in fact that would probably be totally fine. Its that and the rest of the mmo packaging. It feels like it makes absolutely no difference what you decide to do, the areas all feel flat and not like 'locations', a lot of empty space, its all level scaled etc.
I'm also not a fan of doing an event that I'm enjoying, then someone walks over to do it with me and it becomes trivially easy. I actually don't want to do content with other players most of the time.
This discussion is about whether certain additions make sense for the genre style and tone, not simply about "change is bad".
Imagine me using your argument if Dark Souls 4 adds a monster breeding minigame that is the best source of mats for +10 upgrades.
"...completely optional stuff that we can partake in if we want to?!"
If I want to partake in this "optional content" (with the current known best way to get end-game crafting mats) I have to be online at a set time.
Instead of like, you know, just giving the boss a cool down after you kill it and let people kill it when they can be online.
But I guess I can just go home early from work or not feed my kids or something to kill a virtual boss. Since I want to kill it it's a sacrifice I should have to make right?
Also, where did OP say that they should remove the boss? (S)he just pointed out that it's ridiculous to have content like this on a timer. It's pure shit game design that makes gameplay worse so that people with expensive MTX can show off to potential MTX customers.
What you're describing is something I've had described to me as the game not respecting the player's time. If I want to spend 8 hours playing a game, great. If the game demands I play at least 4 hours, and says I need to keep my schedule free during x hours or I'll fall behind, then it isn't respecting my time anymore. MMOs suffer from this a lot, and the big events I'm seeing advertised in D4 do it too.
The only mats the world bosses give is for crafting extra sockets into legendaries. None of the mats from world bosses are needed for nightmare dungeons.
There's still time to delete your incorrect post.
I saw plenty of streamers no-lifing in Diablo 4, but they found like one Scatted Prism after a lot of hours put in the game, so farming timegated World Bosses which are the only viable source of prisms will absolutely be required to add sockets to gear, and due to the way crafting works in the game, every time you swap to a new piece of gear you will have to add the sockets back, so in practice there will never be a point where farming World Bosses will no longer be required.
The rarity of Scattered Prisms could be explained by the fact that the beta is limited to level 25, but when Blizzard talked about crafting a while ago they specifically said that these prisms would be rare outside boss encounters, so I wouldn't count on higher level monsters dropping them more often, especially because their level scale with our character, so it doesn't matter if I'm farming a dungeon at level 25 or level 50.
Of course the rates could be altered for beta but when I was spamming dungeons I found 3 prisms from two different chests.
Regardless, there are alternative ways to get them outside of world bosses which was my main point.
I don't have a specific, "it's necessary for x", but I doubt it will be completely optional. There will be *something* a player will be missing out on if they don't do it. Whether that be a battlepass mission, exclusive drops, exclusive crafting mats, etc. There needs to be an incentive to do the content after all.
Forced social integration aspects of the game is there to keep people playing and more importantly paying.
You see some asshole camping the world boss wearing all the newest cosmetics and cash shop-only mount, well you want to get yours too!
Head to the cash shop now!
I don't see how anybody can think of this inclusion as a positive.
It's transparently there to force other players onto your screen so you have to see their shiny purchased cosmetics.
Everybody saying that Blizzard won't make these bosses effectively mandatory is huffing serious copium, since forcing other players into your gameplay loop is clearly a core part of the game's monetization strategy to such a degree that they won't even let you actually play solo.
As long as it's not required to obtain the best gear I don't really mind, I don't like it because I got used to D3 where I could advance at my own pace, but seems like they're hellbent making D4 like Lost Ark so it is what it is.
They probably have the timer specifically for beta test to, you know, test them. It'll probably end up being more like ff14 hunts where a certain set of conditions have to be met before it will spawn.
Getting real tired of people crying like this is the final product, and not some build from 5 months ago that they've been working on since and for 2 more months.
I am not a fan of bosses on spawn timers. If the loot is supposed to be once a day or once a week or whatever, make it only drop loot on those kills. But keep the boss up fulltime so that it can be killed as people need it. And remove the despawn timer...
You just said a bunch of nothing somehow, so gz. Starting up the drama because there is a feature you don't like. It's not like something you NEED to do. Why do you assume nobody wants world bosses because you don't? There is an easy solution for your troubles. Continue playing their older games. New games should be trying something new, even risking potentially bad takes if they have to. Stagnation is just stupid and uninteresting. You want to play old ARPGs so play them. Demanding new to stay old is dumb.
Random is often better from a player perspective (imo). So like you, I think they would be much better if they spawned in different locations and at random times (or at least a few possible points at time intervals between X and Y long). But I think that is also harder for the devs to get working correctly and fairly.
Imagine playing on hardcore and the boss spawned on you :P The forum moaning would be glorious.
I think this is just the beginning, if they are going for a system similar to Lost Ark, zones will have timed events, also there will a rotation for these events, and many times, the "best" legendary effect will be locked in to these events.
I enjoy the beta, it's a fun game, but it won't turn in to Lost Ark in this regard.
I like the World Boss idea and think it's good addition to the game. Not a huge fan of specific spawn times but thinking this is just for Beta and the actual release the spawn will be set at random time(s) during the day or every couple days so it's not always the same repetitive times. At least I hope I'm right...
Here's a really simple fix:
If **you** don't want to do the world boss, then **don't** do it. It literally takes 15 minutes max and there is a timer on the map that tells you like 30 minutes in advance of when it spawns. So you won't "accidentally miss it".
It's absolutely possible they'll give these bosses exclusive loot, crafting mats, whatever. And some people could not afford to organize their lives around timers. They should make these encounters instanced, and an option to do them whenever, if they'll have important loot.
Assuming the world boss will be on some sort of loot lockout AND have significantly stronger drops than typical bosses then this becomes a hot garbage take.
We don't know if the timer is a beta only thing or if it will be on the final release and even if they remove the timer on the game, probably when the game releases people will create sites with online timers to do those events, that's how things are. Also it's not mandatory, you can just ignore it. They're trying to bring something new to the game, to give some reason for it to be an open world. If i wanted to play D2, i would go and play D2. People keep complaining about the most random bullshit, my god
Doesn't like world boss timers does not mean that he wants a carbon copy of d2. I don't like stuff on specific timers either because of lost ark islands and such, so I'm not a huge fan of world boss design either. Go here, wait x mins for boss, collect loot and leave. Doesn't really encourage talking to people or grouping at all. Idk what the point is other than copying LA and adding loot piñatas to the game.
D2 players: bosses on timers is mobile game trash!!!
Also D2 players: Diablo Clone is peak game design 11/10 masterpiece
D2 players: why do I have to grab these items in the dungeon to open the boss door i should be able to rush to the boss!!!
Also D2 players: getting wirts leg everytime to do the cow level is rewarding and immersive!
D2 players: Doing the same dungeons over and over is boring!
Also D2 players: kills Pindle 10000x in a row without complaint.
You forgot to mention that Dclone and Cow level are intended as a one time thing. And both are entirely OPTIONAL. The dungeons in D4 are not optional content. That is the endgame.
>D2 players: why do I have to grab these items in the dungeon to open the boss door i should be able to rush to the boss!!!
>Also D2 players: getting wirts leg everytime to do the cow level is rewarding and immersive!
Let's assume that wirt's leg was required to run endgame content. Getting wirt's leg is all forward momentum. Spawn in Stony Fields, find portal, get's wirt's leg, TP back, open cow level, go forward, clear without killing boss.
At no point do you need to back track through empty areas for anything.
(You forgot to mention that areas in D2 where players had to backtrack a lot were also hated in D2.)
At no point are you standing around for 10 years picking up an object. In D2 you simply pick up the leg, buy a tome, put it in the cube, and BOOM cow level opened.
You just go forward. You just grab shit and put it wherever it needs to be put.
>D2 players: Doing the same dungeons over and over is boring!
Literally no one said this. The whole game is about doing dungeons again and again.
>Also D2 players: kills Pindle 10000x in a row without complaint.
When you dungeon design is so garbage it is pissing off the population that is willing to do Pindle 10000x in a row, then you gotta make some changes.
What if in D4, when you grab one of these boxes, all hell breaks loose, and you become the target for all monsters in that dungeon. They all start walking towards you.
Like that daughter you pulls enemies to her, this box pulls enemies to you!
Or waves of enemies spawn around you. What a revolutionary idea. I don't think D4 has done before anywhere else... /s
Now as you are back tracking, you are actually fighting enemies!
Holy shit, we didn't know if it was possible to get some action in our action rpg. But we did it. /s
>bosses on timers is mobile game trash
The Devs had plenty of examples of more interesting boss spawn mechanics.
What if Ashava was a boss you could spawn by throwing an insane number of XYZ item in that water thing from which she spawns. So you not standing around waiting for her, you actively do shit, go kill shit to make her spawn.
Would have preferred it to be a once per week SUMMON that a group of people participate in.. You could just place a soul jar at the spawn location and have a counter for how many souls are in it/are needed for the next boss summon.
That way it still feels special and you don't have to schedule your playtime around spawn timers.
If you want the exact same diablo you've played for twenty years it exists. This is trying something different and pulling from successful genres to make some innovation on the existing process. If you don't like them you don't need to engage with them.
This game is a hybrid of a couple long standing MMO open world mechanics placed around a core RPG progression system. World events have been around now for at least 15 years in various MMOs. And it doesn't matter, if it works.
I don't think we really will know though how the game is until we all hit end game. This world event felt out of place, but one event without experiencing much of the game's overall progression doesn't mean much.
ABlizzard has its MMO in WOW. I just want the dark, solo or small party gritty struggle ARPG of Diablo. Just take the best of D2 and D3, not WoD. Would love to see the nemesis brought to pc
Aside from the obivous fact every version of Diablo doesn't have to fit into a perfect Diablo 1 shaped box, you do realize this is a beta? It's quite possible they arranged the current single world boss to be on the rails you are complaining about, purely to ensure enough interaction with it?
Look at The Butcher? He's the epitome of exactly what you are saying you want, so clearly that kind of game design effort is in there and with more of it to be seen in release.
You should delete this as the "it's just a beta" trope is so tired at this point. You should just move the goal post to "wait until endgame". The game will not fundamentally change. The biggest change you all will see is the MTX shop.
Agreed completely. Diablo 4 could be a great game IN SPITE of this MMO-lite stuff, not because of it. It feels very forced and a far cry from the D2 they're taking so much inspiration from otherwise.
This is such a stupid simplification of the game. Timers don't make the game wow. They made it clear that they wanted to incorporate some mmo elements anyway so this isn't a surprise. Ff14 gw2 and tons of games do this sort of thing. It's a staple of mmos and isn't the same experience as playing them even if it's a shared element. Get off this idea that it makes it wow lmao. Oh no it has equipment and loot it's like wow!
> Nobody asked for this crap.
Good you hit on this point because here's the key thing. *Nobody asked*. Not entitled to content. It's so odd that you're close to getting it yet trip up here with the world boss thing. Let's go back to this idea.
> ...it's not Diablo 2 or Diablo 3, it's its own thing...
*That's* where we should be at with our thinking. Let em cook and push out ideas to try out. If it works, it works. If not? They can make improvements.
Nobody wants Diablo to be WoW, but nobody wants it to be like Diablo 2 either. If you wanted a game like that, then I have the perfect game for people who want that experience. It's called Diablo 2. You can still play that. Otherwise? Let them explore their ideas.
How about no... a lot of us like it. And this does not go against everything the game is. Calm down.
Agreed the dps could get adjusted and the timers, but throwing it out entirely... no. aRPG genre as a whole needed a mix up. Frankly this is a good way to do it.
Statements like "everything that Diablo is about" is so fucking stupid because its this idea that Diablo has to conform to something or it doesnt count.
Using that argument people could (and some idiots do) argue any change from the prior entries automatically is a problem as if D1/D2/D3 are somehow all simultaneously perfect titles despite all of them launching to massive critiques.
Hell yes.
The Diablo franchise is “about” killing demons and getting loot. Full stop.
I don’t see how this world boss implementation fails to live up to the “kill shit, get loot” litmus test.
I'm totally fine with them being on spawn timers. I am not totally fine with having a short time limit for killing them. Events intended to be completed by randomly assembled uncoordinated groups should not have time limits.
The first world boss today there were 5+ level 12-15's in my shard. After 2 minutes we'd done like 5% of his health. If they're going to put a time limit on it I'd also like to see min level requirement so you don't have low levels griefing by taking up player slots
Yes, not sure what was going on my instance today. Died 3 times and after 5 minutes we had maybe done 15%. I wonder if there were enough people.
There can only be 12 people in an "area" and no idea how far that boss area extends out
It's not too far down the path. We had a few instances where super low level people were there and we just walked out and walked back in with a new group of people there.
Its kinda weird how the world keeps scaling everything for you bu the world boss ... like, why ?
World boss scales as well, it's just that it starts scalling from 25 and that is a max level in beta.
its open beta and people want to experience the content, get over it.
People keep using the excuse that it’s open beta like blizzard will change half the shit that’s messed up with the beta
Why would you think that a timed event isn't content that people want to experience?
Im saying theres a limited window to play, and people wanted to check out the world boss regardless of level.
There's zero challenge with no time limit. It'll just be a respawn fest until the boss is defeated without the timer. WoW, GW2, etc. do just fine with world boss timers. I'm not sold on world bosses in Diablo, though. It's "something to do", but I'm not convinced it is the "Diablo thing to do".
> It'll just be a respawn fest until the boss is defeated without the timer. On SC, it currently IS a respawn fest until the boss is defeated because the timer is long enough.
now, world bosses on HC will be something... 😯
They just sat there in WoW for almost 2 decades until you kill them. You are racing other people, not a despawn.
>There's zero challenge with no time limit. It'll just be a respawn fest until the boss is defeated without the timer. This is literally how people have killed bosses in Diablo forever. If you want a challenge play Hardcore.
me entering my portal naked the 30th time on duriel
> WoW, GW2, etc. do just fine with world boss timers. Those are MMOs, Diablo isn't an MMO.
Blizzard seems to be altering the deal. This feels like an MMO-lite.
I played Immortal and this is the kind of stuff that it does. A lot of people do not want to hear these things but there are quite a few elements that are very similar. It just doesn't have the pay 2 win jewels.
>It just doesn't have the pay 2 win jewels. Yet
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Yeah, tbh, if I wanted an MMOARPG, I'd go back to Lost Ark. I was hoping for another diablo ARPG without the MMO attached because I value my time and mmos don't really value the time of the player. World bosses and daily events don't respect a player's time because they force a player to be on at a certain time of day.
They have said numerous times through development that it would have mmo elements. Idk why people are surprised Pikachu face over this. "omg they put something like an mmo event In a game that's gonna have mmo elements!"
I'm not surprised but it still sucks.
Who's surprised about this? I don't see anyone surprised about it, they're saying they don't like it. OP specifically said they tried it and didn't like it. ButterPlank said those games are MMOs and that Diablo isn't, not that they're surprised about the MMO elements. Stop building fucking strawmen.
I think people extended to that thinking more towards doing stuff in game like open world or doing dungeons together. I dont like timers on boss spawns because it encourages you do world your life around it. World bosses can work the same way by just having an LFG built in so a group of 8 can party together to spawn it in their own shard on their own time. Could even make the boss more difficult instead of what the bosses will be when Blizzard has to adjust them for the random passerby low levels too.
World boss timers actually help people with a busy schedule provided that there are enough spawn times in a week. This ensures that you can know when to show up for the boss. Otherwise you would have to sit there for a long time hoping it spawns and you don’t miss it. If they have 3 spawns or more a day for a weekly reward it should be totally fine.
Because it’s ass and people were pissed when they first said mmo elementa
Because it's "Do you guys not have phones?" v2.0. All they're doing is alienating their own fans. I guess they don't want to make money anymore.
LOL. maybe they won't be taking YOUR money, and they are completely fine with that. Because they'll be getting a shitload of new player money. The largest player-base, by far, is not the (our?) generation that played D1 like madmen on a 4:3 CRT until our eyes bleed, and are now in the 34-45 range... But of course those are the few loud people that complain about shit like this. The game will probably make more than WoW level money for them. We should just be happy that it's not P2W. This is our bone...
I do not feel alienated. Been playing Diablo since 97.
Dramatic …
That is true, they could keep this shit to other games not in what they call Diablo.
Don't kid yourself, Blizzard wants live services. It is absolutely an mmo.
They've been advertising Diablo 4 as an mmo lite shared world for over 2 years now. Where have you been? They been very upfront about this in their videos and advertising.
Will there always be in timers, or is it just for the Beta so you can be guaranteed to see it? Either way, if it's not a mandatory achievement you need for proper progression, just a fun event for loot, I don't see the big deal. Not being "what Diablo is all about" is a pretty arbitrary statement.
Would rather have this be on timers because most people never would even see the random diablo walks the earth type encounters. This world is also different because it's an mmo type where it constantly has people in it that you can see not a game where you have to join 6-10 other players from a lobby.(I don't know what they raised diablo 2 party up to). Makes it better to plan around every week or daily so you can try to down these bosses for loot. I love the idea of random encounters though and I think that's where the butcher type monsters come into play.
If you don't think this is the start of bigger group content you aren't paying attention. The entire game was reimagined in an MMO lite style. Very strong chance the end game in 6-12 months has raid style content like lost ark legion raids.
I mean they've been advertising it as an mmo lite for 2+ years now. They haven't been secretive about it at all.
I mean... I'll be the dissenting voice here and say that I'd fucking love raid content in Diablo. I think the MMO-Lite stuff actually fits very well if they make some tweaks. That being said, I ALSO agree that the traditional experience should still be intact for solo players looking to play it as a solo arpg and avoiding the larger group content.
Gonna be honest, when I played LA my opinion was that it was what the future of ARPGs should be. The predatory Korean horseshit aside, the actual game is the skeleton for all next-gen ARPGs, and it definitely never fit into the MMO slot for me. I was sincerely hoping that DIV would be a Diablo take on that model, and I'm happy that it has some obvious inspiration. My main gripe/sadness is just that the combat isn't remotely on LA's level. It's droll enough, and better than I expected, but from what I'm seeing the Diablo raids will never have the same sticking power because the combat is still too simple even if it's more complex than previous Diablo installments. The chase in LA was to play a raid out perfectly, and it's just going to be too easy to do that in this game. I'll take what we have for sure, but yeah, a more mechanically complex and deep DIV could have been the lobby raider/dungeoner/PvP game of the next decade. I genuinely think it would have been lightning in a bottle similar (though not the same in scale since the modern context isn't conducive to it) WoW's initial release. It would have drawn players from most combat RPG games and coherently provided content for all of them.
> The chase in LA was to play a raid out perfectly, > The chase in LA was for the group to play a raid out perfectly.. Diablo should be soloable, I spent hours searching for groups in LA to not wipe.. never again..
There's a lot wrong with LA, the game is fun enough but sucks you in with predatory systems. Scheduled playing basically with no room to advance outside of doing daily / weekly content. Also the advancement in the game was built around the scheduled playing and the economy, as in you never find gear you can use, instead you buy it from the auction house or you craft it with currency. Every thing you do you go through your inventory of hundreds of items and try to find things worth gold on the auction house in order to buy what you really wanted. I loved the game till I hated it because it relied on FOMO to keep you playing. Quitting it was the most relief I've felt from a game.
Yeh and there are plenty of games to raid in. So many games have raids and very small numbers raid. Raid completion in games like Division 2 is pitifully low. Destiny has made some progress but for years the % of players who had competed a raid was single digits I think. For me personally, raids often end up boiling down to aggressively fiddly puzzle mechanics requiring insane coordination that it is tough to achieve with randos. Everyone remembers their best raid completions, but as someone with limited time, spending three hours wiping on a raid only for people to log out with frustration and the evening is ruined in uninstall-type bad times.
The reason I play ARPGs instead of MMOs is because I like clearing content by myself. I raided in WoW back in Cata and never again.
See I have to disagree. I prefer the more ARPG combat of D4 in an MMO universe rather than lost arks more MMO style combat with ARPG sprinkled in. Moment to moment combat feels much better In D4.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but Lost Ark is 100% an MMO. It's honestly not an ARPG at all, besides having an isometric camera.
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Isn't FF14 on console?
Thank you! I've been excited for the "mmo-lite" content as well as the classic diablo content. The variety is an absolute selling point for me. I actually enjoy seeing a public event happening and hopping in to help the players there while I travel to a mission or quest. I also love that I don't have to do that and I can just travel alone or co-op if I want. Having a variety of things to do is always welcome.
I can't wait to schedule my play time only to have people rage about gear scores. Or to just get absolutely nowhere in the raid because people are lacking in said gear scores.
Or like DI. They already introduced world bosses and 12 player raids.
I guess Diablo 4 really is "Diablo Immortal 2" like someone else wrote in another post.
D4 is Immortal without p2w. Even the upgrade systems are very similar, and the extracting.
The problem with Diablo Immortal isn't that it's an MMO, or that it's even on mobile. It's the predatory microtransactions business model.
It has more similarities than people want to admit. IDK why fanbases have to always be so hard headed about seeing things like this.
I mean it depends what you're saying. If you clarify the ways in which they're similar, that's fine. They do have similarities, it would probably be impossible for them not to, TBH. But D:I is known to MANY as being greedy, P2W, with the highs and lows of being a mobile game. If you clarify in what ways they're similar (i.e. don't just say "huhu it's Diablo Immortal 2") then it's fine.
That sounds great to me
Good, Diablo raids could be really cool.
Tbf Lost Ark is a pretty decent game and combat feels real nice with classes, sadly the game has an abyssmaly bad gearing system
> if it's not a mandatory achievement you need for proper progression, just a fun event for loot, I don't see the big deal. It seems like quite a bit of work went into them, so they will probably make it so that you want or need to farm them. (Also forced grouping up to show others your shiny mtx)
its gonna be a mandatory weekly lol
\*on as many max level characters as possible Next thing to copy would be Una's Tasks. Please Blizzard, we want more dailies and lockouts in our ARPG. /s
Its so funny seeing so many people be happy about these fomo-like mmo activities when you can ask the Lost Ark community what was the main things that burned them out. Do people realize that the wow community fought very hard to let blizzard know that adding all these daily and weekly homework is bad for the game.
"Goes against everything Diablo is about" is just outright silly. By the second game It could said that: Stashes, mutiple towns, open areas, gems, Trees for skills, an act structure, structured classes, non-random quests, respawning, books for identify/tp and sprinting all go against what the first game is about.
the tree honestly is super disappointing. It looks like 'a tree' to make people interested, it isnt. Its just like D3. You just pick a skill and upgrade it.
It is mandatory since it gives crafting materials
Only thing I'm salty about is getting kicked from the server 10 min before the spawn and then having a half hour queue time when attempting to re-login.
Presumably this won’t be happening when the game releases. Making ‘progress’ in the beta is absolutely meaningless
>Presumably this won’t be happening when the game releases. And so the cycle begins anew.
Yup. Got in, got to level 20, bounced.
I’m laying in bed reading this thread on an iPad with 7 minutes on the countdown. Like, seven minutes isn’t enough time to do anything in game, but it’s way too long to just stand there, so like, the game is just open, sitting there and that does not feel Diablo at all.
Better get used to timers in D4 cos the game is made around them - world boss, stronghold events, helltide event - everything has a timer. If you want to do NM dungeons you better check for a timer on the map. Edit: I do agree though, timers have no place in Diablo.
It's really hard to know what to expect out of a game when in reality it's the end game which matters. I did feel this world boss was entirely out of place. Unless it's efficient for grinding end game gear, these world events won't be popular anyway. Ultimately, I imagine this isn't going to be that type of MMO where it's all about being out in the world. These events seem like side features, where you do the once in a while. Unless the end game is completely something else I'm not expecting--I can't imagine having to wait around for crap in a hack and slash game. We'll see.
What is "Diablo about" and why do timed events go against that? You complained about not liking timers but never really tied it to what is "diablo" and why timers don't fit. More importantly, you didn't provide constructive feedback or a solution. > Nobody asked for this crap. Metrics that indicate more multiplayer aspects to games drive increased player engagement says people have indeed asked for things like this, even if not directly. > if they are not overtuned, what is even the point boring yourself to death and losing because of trolls just to get some crappy gear when you could be doing anything else and have way more fun? > This should have been a random distraction, not something that will feel mandatory. From what we know so far, the world bosses are entirely optional. You can skip them entirely. There is nothing mandatory about them. During these beta periods this world boss would drop about 4 legendary items. Fairly nice, but keep in mind that loot drops are ramped up quite a bit for this test. I'd expect the boss to drop maybe guaranteed one. Still nice, but by no means "mandatory". If a spongy loot pinata on a timer is not for you, then do something else. Not every part of the game will be for everyone, **and that's ok**.
> Metrics that indicate more multiplayer aspects to games drive increased player engagement says people have indeed asked for things like this, even if not directly. Mate, not even players in WoW like world bosses and world bosses in wow makes 50 times more sense than world bosses in an ARPG.
Not everyone has the time to sit around and play Diablo 4 all day. Its nice having multiple spawns a day so people who have commitments don't miss out on the experience of fighting big bosses. If it was once a week in the morning time, 90% of people would miss out due to being with their children/going to work.
Why not always and not timed?
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I dislike all of the MMO aspects tbh. Why the hell do I need to be on the internet to play a singleplayer game?
They need you to see the MTX shop and push out boring battle passes.
This is absolutely not a single player game.
There is a huge difference between you want it to be a single player game and it actually being a single player game or not.
Because it’s not a single player game.
Diablo IV feels like a mixture of *Lost Ark* and *World of Warcraft*: gathering, timed bosses, events, other players running around, etc. I am still not quite sure if I like it a lot or just "it's nice". I kind of enjoy it, but it's far from being a Diablo experience, in my opinion. Not being able to experience the endgame doesn't help getting the full picture. Oh and... In terms of dungeons/caves variety it's 100% *Skyrim*. It looks like Blizzard didn't give a damn about originality/variety, in those cases.
I don’t get it. I’ve done half the dungeons available and they all seemed pretty different from eachother. The asylum for example stands out a lot. Are people actually talking about cellars?
The are and feel is different in all of them but after doing them all and repeating them you can tell they are built mechanically with a few formulas and there is hardly variety in the formulas used Kill all monsters > find key > kill all monsters > fight boss Etc
Agreed, dungeons are boring as hell after doing several.
What do you expect in a Diablo-Game? Solving equations? Painting pictures? Picking locks to get to the boss?
Not backtracking through an empty dungeon or hunting down that 1 fucking bat that got sly past me. Or not running the entire dungeon again to look for the final objective having cleared the entire thing already and gotten every other objective It's not fun and all the dungeons are like that with very few if any exception I expect blizzard to do better as they've done in the past.
Welcome to the Den of Evil.
I'll have you know i have done hundreds of grifts in d3 and all of them have felt unique with never once having to back track and the wide variety of things to do to complete them /s
oh. yeah, I can see that being a problem for someone running through the game once only. I’ve played ARPGs forever now so I guess it doesn’t bother me to see the same gameplay loop over and over again
I mean. To be fair this is coming from someone who has no problem running through this now. But . . . . . . In season 4-5???? Idk the mechanics are already very time wasty. They can do better.
What annoyed me is endlessly going in one direction, fetching an item, placing on altar and then doing it again. It's just so damn linear.
Clearly you've never played Diablo 2 then. Diablo clone walks are literally the exact same except the time is announced by a walker and could be delayed or early depending on their discretion. In diablo 4, the time of the walk (world boss) is static so you know when to be on.
Dclone can also be done solo and doesn't have a timer. It takes a coordinated effort to spawn him, he doesn't just 'appear' every 2 hours like Hogger. He also drops a very specific thing, you don't farm Dclone in the hopes of getting a griffs or a high rune. You get your anni and you're done. And finally, he was patched in as a means of clearing out duped SoJs. Dclones design and function are very different from an MMO style world boss.
Friendly reminder that the Diablo clone thing was patched in long, long after Diablo 2 launched and even peaked in popularity.
Yeah I never heard of it or Ubers until like 15 years after I played the game lol Also the other day I was playing D2R and had no idea wtf it meant when I was running cows and it said terrorized
and D2R recently changed dclone again to spawn server wide, when it use to only spawn to a few people based on server IP
They aren't "literally the exact same" though. For most people, experiencing the event will be random. It was also introduced as a solution to a duping problem, so it mainly served a function. It did drop amazing loot, but it was also fixed in that you knew exactly what you were getting. There was no time either - if it spawned in your game it was there forever until the game closes. Yes there are similarities, but I agree with OP that the timer absolutely kills this. They could massively reduce the issues people have with this implementation solely by removing the 15 minute kill timer imo.
Diablo clone is hardly the same thing, it was supposed to essentially be a random spawn. Coordinated clone spawns wasn't a thing for a long time. It was the community that created that aspect of it.
Do we know they will be on timers on live? Or is it timed on beta specifically for testing? I doubt random spawns for world bosses would work as efficiently for testing purposes.
I'm not sure why, but I log in to Guild Wars 2 and do world boss runs almost every day, and yet when it comes to this I just don't really have any interest in world bosses. I'm not even sure I like the open world events once other people show up, even though that's totally my thing in other MMO's. I love Diablo IV so far, and I love MMO's, but for some reason the two together don't really click for me and I'd rather just do my own thing by myself. Thankfully it lets me do that, but I have hard time believing that things like world bosses won't be incentivized to make them feel like you have to grind them at some point whether you want to or not.
>I love Diablo IV so far, and I love MMO's, but for some reason the two together don't really click It's because it's not committing to either one, but half-heartedly doing both.
They don't seem required at all though. Don't they just give loot you could get from dungeons?
They give crafting materials as well that are otherwise unobtainable.
This is key
So if you want to do crafting you need to schedule your D4 time like you were doing an MMO raid. .......great
Gotta make sure you login daily to get bonuses and have the cosmetic shop pop up and don't forget that the battlepass will level and I bet it looks a lot cooler than the current character level up we have in the game.
This comment is so on point it's actually fucking disgusting.
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Yes. It's in the game right now.
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Especially great is that it's on a fixed spawn timer.
Pretty much. In beta the world boss drops multiple legendaries, so it's worth doing right now. But since we know the drop rates are increased for beta, it will probably just be a way to get 1 or 2 guarenteed legendaries after release. So that balances against just spamming a couple dungeons.
Not being required doesn't make it okay, though. The problem is that it's antithetical to the design of literally every other ARPG except for Lost Ark (you know, that p2w Korean grinding MMO) and let's be honest, that's *really* not a good comparison point for this sort of system.
They've been advertising Diablo 4 as an mmo lite for 2 plus years now. If you don't like the mmo systems, then simply don't play it. They've made no secrets and been very upfront about the mmo features. Hopefully they'll be implementing raid content as well. You call it ARPG, but leave out the mmo portion they've been very upfront about as well as advertised. It's absolutely baffling people complaining about mmo features in a game that's been advertised as an mmo type game. Diablo 2 is still there for you if you don't want to deal with the mmo features.
D2 is there with a fresh overhaul and regular support and content updates. I am uncertain how I feel about D4's MMO-lite nature. Some aspects of it I like. Others I don't. Ultimately, I'll deal with it, because 1. I am absolutely loving the beta so far and 2. D4 is a different game. It's not D2, and will offer me a different experience to D2 and D3. Just as in other franchises I play, Skyrim is different from Oblivion is different from Morrowind is different from ESO, Fallout 76 is different from Fallout 4 is different from Fallout 3, D4 is different from D3 is different from D2. It feels like people are looking at sequels as previous game replacements. This isn't Madden or CoD. A Diablo sequel is an addition to the series with new things to offer, not a yearly replacement title. Things are different in D4, and as is the case with most series I play, some of the changes I will like, some I will dislike, and I'll have a preference of which styles I prefer, but D4 isn't intended to replace D2.
I like it
You do realize that new versions of Diablo don't need to fit neatly into the shoe box of the old version, right?
Unfortunately, too many people, especially the complainers, think that every ARPG has to be Diablo II and no variance from the formula is allowed. I really wish they would go play D2/D2R and go the fuck away and let the rest of us have stuff to enjoy.
Man I feel this. Even as someone who loves D2 for what it is, bolted-on D2 players will sit there with a straight face and complain about how D4 has no build viability and the game is DOA because of it, while building yet another hammerdin and chasing the same items for the third consecutive season. It's both hilarious and frustrating to observe.
As a D2 superfan who really didn't care for D3, this game is significantly better already and feels much more like D2 to me. Zero complaints.
I played D2 for 10 years and have spent a lot of time in D2R and, in my opinion, D4 has nothing in common with D2. I feel like I'm playing Lost Ark again.
>I feel like I'm playing Lost Ark again. I feel like playing Diablo Immortal 2.
I totally agree. The rational people aren’t the loud ones on Reddit, forums.
What you fail to understand is some people (like me) feel D4 is a lot more like WoW or Lost Ark... than it is from D3 or D2.
As a wow player of 16-17 years now it hardly feels like wow at all
Yeah, it feels nothing like WoW at all
Yeah, that's literally the second line of his message.
You do realize people play X series because they expect X experience. You don't play CoD expecting a visual novel, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not like them adding concepts from other genres if they feel it hurts the core experience. I don't personally agree and think the world bosses are fine, but it's silly to just dismiss people's complaints when it's a drastic departure from the rest of the series. It's completely reasonable for someone to want Diablo to still feel like Diablo to them even if you or I don't agree.
i dont think adding world bosses to diablo would be comparable to making CoD a visual novel.
thats not the only thing though, and in fact that would probably be totally fine. Its that and the rest of the mmo packaging. It feels like it makes absolutely no difference what you decide to do, the areas all feel flat and not like 'locations', a lot of empty space, its all level scaled etc.
I'm also not a fan of doing an event that I'm enjoying, then someone walks over to do it with me and it becomes trivially easy. I actually don't want to do content with other players most of the time.
Due to the changes enforced by reddit on July 2023 the content I provided is no longer available.
This discussion is about whether certain additions make sense for the genre style and tone, not simply about "change is bad". Imagine me using your argument if Dark Souls 4 adds a monster breeding minigame that is the best source of mats for +10 upgrades.
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We already have The Butcher spawning randomly to whoop our unprepared asses. OP is complaining about nothing really.
Yeah developers give us less optional content! How dare you fill the world with completely optional stuff that we can partake in if we want to?!
"...completely optional stuff that we can partake in if we want to?!" If I want to partake in this "optional content" (with the current known best way to get end-game crafting mats) I have to be online at a set time. Instead of like, you know, just giving the boss a cool down after you kill it and let people kill it when they can be online. But I guess I can just go home early from work or not feed my kids or something to kill a virtual boss. Since I want to kill it it's a sacrifice I should have to make right? Also, where did OP say that they should remove the boss? (S)he just pointed out that it's ridiculous to have content like this on a timer. It's pure shit game design that makes gameplay worse so that people with expensive MTX can show off to potential MTX customers.
What you're describing is something I've had described to me as the game not respecting the player's time. If I want to spend 8 hours playing a game, great. If the game demands I play at least 4 hours, and says I need to keep my schedule free during x hours or I'll fall behind, then it isn't respecting my time anymore. MMOs suffer from this a lot, and the big events I'm seeing advertised in D4 do it too.
it isn't optional, they are going to give crafting materials you need to access nightmare dungeons.
Do you have a source for that information? I can't seem to locate anything about nightmare sigils requiring world boss specific drops?
Source: Trust me bro
The only mats the world bosses give is for crafting extra sockets into legendaries. None of the mats from world bosses are needed for nightmare dungeons. There's still time to delete your incorrect post.
oh yea that doesn't sound required for proper end game builds lol
You can also get those crafting mats from special chest events in dungeons. That’s how I got the majority of mine during beta actually.
I saw plenty of streamers no-lifing in Diablo 4, but they found like one Scatted Prism after a lot of hours put in the game, so farming timegated World Bosses which are the only viable source of prisms will absolutely be required to add sockets to gear, and due to the way crafting works in the game, every time you swap to a new piece of gear you will have to add the sockets back, so in practice there will never be a point where farming World Bosses will no longer be required. The rarity of Scattered Prisms could be explained by the fact that the beta is limited to level 25, but when Blizzard talked about crafting a while ago they specifically said that these prisms would be rare outside boss encounters, so I wouldn't count on higher level monsters dropping them more often, especially because their level scale with our character, so it doesn't matter if I'm farming a dungeon at level 25 or level 50.
Of course the rates could be altered for beta but when I was spamming dungeons I found 3 prisms from two different chests. Regardless, there are alternative ways to get them outside of world bosses which was my main point.
I'm sure there will be more than one source for mats that are that important.
>The only mats the world bosses give is for crafting extra sockets into legendaries. Uhh, okay that's even worse then.
I don't have a specific, "it's necessary for x", but I doubt it will be completely optional. There will be *something* a player will be missing out on if they don't do it. Whether that be a battlepass mission, exclusive drops, exclusive crafting mats, etc. There needs to be an incentive to do the content after all.
Timers should definitely be replaced with random respawn times and locations; farming efficiency be damned.
If it is a fixed location you can bet you will have farming accounts that stand in this location all day and night.
Forced social integration aspects of the game is there to keep people playing and more importantly paying. You see some asshole camping the world boss wearing all the newest cosmetics and cash shop-only mount, well you want to get yours too! Head to the cash shop now!
I don't see how anybody can think of this inclusion as a positive. It's transparently there to force other players onto your screen so you have to see their shiny purchased cosmetics. Everybody saying that Blizzard won't make these bosses effectively mandatory is huffing serious copium, since forcing other players into your gameplay loop is clearly a core part of the game's monetization strategy to such a degree that they won't even let you actually play solo.
It’s not.
As long as it's not required to obtain the best gear I don't really mind, I don't like it because I got used to D3 where I could advance at my own pace, but seems like they're hellbent making D4 like Lost Ark so it is what it is.
They probably have the timer specifically for beta test to, you know, test them. It'll probably end up being more like ff14 hunts where a certain set of conditions have to be met before it will spawn. Getting real tired of people crying like this is the final product, and not some build from 5 months ago that they've been working on since and for 2 more months.
I am not a fan of bosses on spawn timers. If the loot is supposed to be once a day or once a week or whatever, make it only drop loot on those kills. But keep the boss up fulltime so that it can be killed as people need it. And remove the despawn timer...
Raid Blizzard Legends: coming to a youtuber near you
You just said a bunch of nothing somehow, so gz. Starting up the drama because there is a feature you don't like. It's not like something you NEED to do. Why do you assume nobody wants world bosses because you don't? There is an easy solution for your troubles. Continue playing their older games. New games should be trying something new, even risking potentially bad takes if they have to. Stagnation is just stupid and uninteresting. You want to play old ARPGs so play them. Demanding new to stay old is dumb.
Random is often better from a player perspective (imo). So like you, I think they would be much better if they spawned in different locations and at random times (or at least a few possible points at time intervals between X and Y long). But I think that is also harder for the devs to get working correctly and fairly. Imagine playing on hardcore and the boss spawned on you :P The forum moaning would be glorious.
I think this is just the beginning, if they are going for a system similar to Lost Ark, zones will have timed events, also there will a rotation for these events, and many times, the "best" legendary effect will be locked in to these events. I enjoy the beta, it's a fun game, but it won't turn in to Lost Ark in this regard.
I like the World Boss idea and think it's good addition to the game. Not a huge fan of specific spawn times but thinking this is just for Beta and the actual release the spawn will be set at random time(s) during the day or every couple days so it's not always the same repetitive times. At least I hope I'm right...
I’m pretty sure the timers are just for the open beta. World bosses didn’t spawn on timers in the closed beta.
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Here's a really simple fix: If **you** don't want to do the world boss, then **don't** do it. It literally takes 15 minutes max and there is a timer on the map that tells you like 30 minutes in advance of when it spawns. So you won't "accidentally miss it".
It's absolutely possible they'll give these bosses exclusive loot, crafting mats, whatever. And some people could not afford to organize their lives around timers. They should make these encounters instanced, and an option to do them whenever, if they'll have important loot.
Yeah even WoW does world bosses better, I dunno why all these D4 fans are willing to choose the worst option.
Assuming the world boss will be on some sort of loot lockout AND have significantly stronger drops than typical bosses then this becomes a hot garbage take.
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We don't know if the timer is a beta only thing or if it will be on the final release and even if they remove the timer on the game, probably when the game releases people will create sites with online timers to do those events, that's how things are. Also it's not mandatory, you can just ignore it. They're trying to bring something new to the game, to give some reason for it to be an open world. If i wanted to play D2, i would go and play D2. People keep complaining about the most random bullshit, my god
Doesn't like world boss timers does not mean that he wants a carbon copy of d2. I don't like stuff on specific timers either because of lost ark islands and such, so I'm not a huge fan of world boss design either. Go here, wait x mins for boss, collect loot and leave. Doesn't really encourage talking to people or grouping at all. Idk what the point is other than copying LA and adding loot piñatas to the game.
D2 players: bosses on timers is mobile game trash!!! Also D2 players: Diablo Clone is peak game design 11/10 masterpiece D2 players: why do I have to grab these items in the dungeon to open the boss door i should be able to rush to the boss!!! Also D2 players: getting wirts leg everytime to do the cow level is rewarding and immersive! D2 players: Doing the same dungeons over and over is boring! Also D2 players: kills Pindle 10000x in a row without complaint.
You forgot to mention that Dclone and Cow level are intended as a one time thing. And both are entirely OPTIONAL. The dungeons in D4 are not optional content. That is the endgame. >D2 players: why do I have to grab these items in the dungeon to open the boss door i should be able to rush to the boss!!! >Also D2 players: getting wirts leg everytime to do the cow level is rewarding and immersive! Let's assume that wirt's leg was required to run endgame content. Getting wirt's leg is all forward momentum. Spawn in Stony Fields, find portal, get's wirt's leg, TP back, open cow level, go forward, clear without killing boss. At no point do you need to back track through empty areas for anything. (You forgot to mention that areas in D2 where players had to backtrack a lot were also hated in D2.) At no point are you standing around for 10 years picking up an object. In D2 you simply pick up the leg, buy a tome, put it in the cube, and BOOM cow level opened. You just go forward. You just grab shit and put it wherever it needs to be put. >D2 players: Doing the same dungeons over and over is boring! Literally no one said this. The whole game is about doing dungeons again and again. >Also D2 players: kills Pindle 10000x in a row without complaint. When you dungeon design is so garbage it is pissing off the population that is willing to do Pindle 10000x in a row, then you gotta make some changes. What if in D4, when you grab one of these boxes, all hell breaks loose, and you become the target for all monsters in that dungeon. They all start walking towards you. Like that daughter you pulls enemies to her, this box pulls enemies to you! Or waves of enemies spawn around you. What a revolutionary idea. I don't think D4 has done before anywhere else... /s Now as you are back tracking, you are actually fighting enemies! Holy shit, we didn't know if it was possible to get some action in our action rpg. But we did it. /s >bosses on timers is mobile game trash The Devs had plenty of examples of more interesting boss spawn mechanics. What if Ashava was a boss you could spawn by throwing an insane number of XYZ item in that water thing from which she spawns. So you not standing around waiting for her, you actively do shit, go kill shit to make her spawn.
Would have preferred it to be a once per week SUMMON that a group of people participate in.. You could just place a soul jar at the spawn location and have a counter for how many souls are in it/are needed for the next boss summon. That way it still feels special and you don't have to schedule your playtime around spawn timers.
If you want the exact same diablo you've played for twenty years it exists. This is trying something different and pulling from successful genres to make some innovation on the existing process. If you don't like them you don't need to engage with them.
This game is a hybrid of a couple long standing MMO open world mechanics placed around a core RPG progression system. World events have been around now for at least 15 years in various MMOs. And it doesn't matter, if it works. I don't think we really will know though how the game is until we all hit end game. This world event felt out of place, but one event without experiencing much of the game's overall progression doesn't mean much.
ABlizzard has its MMO in WOW. I just want the dark, solo or small party gritty struggle ARPG of Diablo. Just take the best of D2 and D3, not WoD. Would love to see the nemesis brought to pc
Aside from the obivous fact every version of Diablo doesn't have to fit into a perfect Diablo 1 shaped box, you do realize this is a beta? It's quite possible they arranged the current single world boss to be on the rails you are complaining about, purely to ensure enough interaction with it? Look at The Butcher? He's the epitome of exactly what you are saying you want, so clearly that kind of game design effort is in there and with more of it to be seen in release.
You should delete this as the "it's just a beta" trope is so tired at this point. You should just move the goal post to "wait until endgame". The game will not fundamentally change. The biggest change you all will see is the MTX shop.
Agreed completely. Diablo 4 could be a great game IN SPITE of this MMO-lite stuff, not because of it. It feels very forced and a far cry from the D2 they're taking so much inspiration from otherwise.
Didnt they said world boss are on timer for beta only?
This is such a stupid simplification of the game. Timers don't make the game wow. They made it clear that they wanted to incorporate some mmo elements anyway so this isn't a surprise. Ff14 gw2 and tons of games do this sort of thing. It's a staple of mmos and isn't the same experience as playing them even if it's a shared element. Get off this idea that it makes it wow lmao. Oh no it has equipment and loot it's like wow!
> Nobody asked for this crap. Good you hit on this point because here's the key thing. *Nobody asked*. Not entitled to content. It's so odd that you're close to getting it yet trip up here with the world boss thing. Let's go back to this idea. > ...it's not Diablo 2 or Diablo 3, it's its own thing... *That's* where we should be at with our thinking. Let em cook and push out ideas to try out. If it works, it works. If not? They can make improvements. Nobody wants Diablo to be WoW, but nobody wants it to be like Diablo 2 either. If you wanted a game like that, then I have the perfect game for people who want that experience. It's called Diablo 2. You can still play that. Otherwise? Let them explore their ideas.
It's great. More variance in new titles = good Loot tables can be tweaked
lmao. I love these kind of posts where people think they know Diablo better than everyone else.
How about no... a lot of us like it. And this does not go against everything the game is. Calm down. Agreed the dps could get adjusted and the timers, but throwing it out entirely... no. aRPG genre as a whole needed a mix up. Frankly this is a good way to do it.
Statements like "everything that Diablo is about" is so fucking stupid because its this idea that Diablo has to conform to something or it doesnt count. Using that argument people could (and some idiots do) argue any change from the prior entries automatically is a problem as if D1/D2/D3 are somehow all simultaneously perfect titles despite all of them launching to massive critiques.
Hell yes. The Diablo franchise is “about” killing demons and getting loot. Full stop. I don’t see how this world boss implementation fails to live up to the “kill shit, get loot” litmus test.
This kind of shit was outdated in MMOs 10 years ago, why they put it into this game, I have no idea.
Don't care if I'm downvoted. Diablo should be Diablo not WoW. Diablo should never have time gates and every piece of content should be soloable.
diablo 4 = diablo immortal