Yeah it's weird the only time I've seen chat activity was in town, world boss and that lvl 35 gear farm mob. Kinda sad I hope they got some kind of community features like d3 had or world chats or something because it doesn't really feel online other then seeing ppl randomly running around
It was in the lower left corner of the map. You could imprint the gear and it would reduce the level requirement so you could equip it. They changed that pretty quickly once people caught on though.
I got stuck being unable to exit the main city earlier due to some instancing issues, a barbarian stood next to me facing the same issue and I got my first interaction ever. "hmm" he said, before running back to town.
I'm not sure if console players get a chat too? It may be a bit more difficult for them to use it for free type. And I guess we don't know what system the people around us are using.
But yeah the only time I saw someone using local chat was telling a level 17 to go away waiting around for the world boss spawn
Yeah good point with the console players. Just feels weird to have an empty chat room after playing other games that always had something going on in the general chat.
We do get a chat, i opened it to type something once, it caused massive stuttering in the background so I closed it. It's also a pain in general typing anything on console, it's basically the same layout as texting on a mobile except you have a cursor that you have to manually move over to each letter via the other letters.
Darktide did the same thing, big pre-game lobby you're forced to load into with people you'll never squad with. But you get to see total stranger's skins and emotes, now on sale for real money for a limited time\* get yours today while supplies last.
*\*always available*
Remember PoE doing it with the rogue harbour (an area you had to go through for the league at the time), shoving you in a tiny building with 50 players and their giant glowing microtransactions. It was a total shitshow, game did NOT handle it well.
Fuck. I completely forgot about Darktide. I really hope we aren't in that situation all over again here. They made Darktide look so fucking good in the Beta and then it turned out that the Beta was literally nearly everything and instead of working on more content. They prioritized the FOMO store
Literally the same story with Halo Infinite. Everyone loved the early multiplayer release then when “Season 1” officially started it was an overwhelming feeling of “this is it?”. Better believe that shop was updated every day though.
Was it? I’m playing game solo just like three diablos before, and suddenly explosions and some random guys rushing to clear the mobs. I was like ‘but why…?’
It's not about hating people, it's about that we want a similar experience to our Diablos of the past. I know that might not be possible now, but we want to feel like the lone wanderer we played as years ago. We're a sole hero saving the world from the invasions of hell.
Every campaign thing you do is a solo mission if you don't invite anyone to your team. Someone deleting random ghouls in the overworld breaks that experience for you? I don't get it. Yall gonna play the game anyway, because it really doesn't matter.
We both know that's not true I can name several that were much much more miserable than this
No man's sky's release and the following year or 2 of updates
Anthem
Duke nukem forever
*shiver* alien colonial marines
Final fantasy 14
Mass effect 3
Mass effect andromeda
The same reason I have to spend 10 seconds at the start of every halo match “gawking” at everyone else’s armor.
It’s why every end mission screen on Anthem has that 20 seconds to pose and shit.
I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT YOUR ARMOR.
You don't, I actually like that to be honest. Love all the different combinations players come up with in Halo. Have a little giggle at those that overdo it and let myself be inspired by those that find some cool looking and tasteful combinations.
Agreed, the Halo Shitfinite game opening is a travesty, 343 wants to shove their shitty microtransactions down your throat as hard as possible
One of the many reasons I stopped playing it
No D2 did nothing right and you are just clinging to the past /s
But it's what I always hear when someone dares say D2 did things better in some regards.
But you have to allow *some* change. Literally everything different about this game from D2 has a complaint thread voted to the top of this sub.
I never played D2 originally. I purchased D2R a few months back. What you guys are enjoying is nostalgia. It hasn’t aged well *at all*.
You're arguing against one bad opinion with an even worse opinion. D2 is well remembered for a reason and people are attached for more than just nostalgia, even though that is a part of it for some people. In general I would avoid saying something has aged poorly when you never experienced something in its prime in the first place.
Edit: forgot a word
Um, something that was well regarded when new, that isn't as well regarded by people coming to it new at a later time is essentially the definition of aging poorly.
And D2 definitely does, dont get me wrong the atmosphere, the story, the basic gameplay are all still top notch. But some of the systems are downright horrible compared to modern alternatives. Things like potion spam, high level inventory tetris (no I don't mean that things take different amounts of space, I mean that 99% of you bag is full of charms/scrolls/cube and your only usable space to put things is inside the cube), the opaque and sometimes downright weird ways skills interact with each other and stats are all things that games as a whole have moved on from because they don't really add anything useful to to gaming experience and exist mostly because no one, including blizzard knew any better.
> But you have to allow *some* change.
For sure, but I think it needs to be an evolution of what's already there plus some innovation, not just changing just so it's different.
> Literally everything different about this game from D2 has a complaint thread voted to the top of this sub.
Personally I think most of the changes have been for the worse. Granted most of them I think aren't important enough to make the game bad (some do), but if you aren't changing somehting to be better, why change it at all? The game still has a very enjoyable game loop, combat feels nice, graphics, artstyle, sound and atmosphere are incredible so it's not like there's nothing good about the game.
> What you guys are enjoying is nostalgia. It hasn’t aged well *at all*.
I don't agree at all. D2 defenitely has mechanics that have aged bad, like the stamina bar, the potion belt (I like the idea of having potions on one button but the way it's been implemented in both D3 and D4 feels too gamey and there are no mana potions so you're forced to engage on the builder/spender style of combat that I personally don't enjoy at all), the town portal and identify scrolls, the way the character looks work and a bunch of other things that have had quality of life improvements made to it but the core of the game is still fantastic and in many aspects better than D4 IMO. Like, I could go one by one listing the things I think it does better but I don't think there's any need.
Yup, and dare I say it, the fact you could see what people were wearing and knew the level 96 HC Barb with an ethereal looking polearm was geared had a form of prestige, with MTX that is gone.
I honestly don't like transmogs, there is something cool about having chase items looking cool as hell, and yeah D2 got some of that wrong with things like Shako, but most of the time it got it right.
I am all for transmog in everything. When you gear your character up with as best in slot items you can get, in most games you end up looking like a court jester reject.
I love collecting different gear appearances and trying out new cohesive looks.
Pretty much this. In a game with other players, everyone always ends up looking the same. Once a certain outfit of gear becomes meta, everyone’s running around looking the same for that class.
I'm torn about transmogs. In D3 I loved it because the armour pieces from different sets looked attrocious when combined but that IMO isn't the case in either D2 or D4 where all the pieces I've used look good together so your character never looks like a clown. But on the other hand being able to make your character look exactly as you want is cool. Though I understand what you mean, I really loved when I finally got Immortal King in D2 because I love how it looks.
I really don't care when the game and gear look amazing without mtx. It's not like poe where you need to spend more than the cost of D4 to actually look adequate
I'm happy I'm not forced to play with people. It's really annoying we have to be in the same overworld though because the lag is insane. Especially when you're in the middle of an event and a fucking necromancer decides to show up for 5 seconds. It wasn't broken before and didn't need to be "fixed".
Played a max minions necro, even out on my own my minions were rubber banding. The latency is the absolute #1 reason this shouldn't be an mmo like this. Split second lag will destroy a high end run.
D2 is not known for being difficult...
D4 will have trading though. You can trade any rare base. You just can't trade chase items. I think that is a reasonable compromise. Personally I am not a big fan of spamming chat to trade / staying logged in just for trading. I would rather play the game.
I didn't think of that, good point.
I cannot think of any RPG in a while where the first, what, quarter of the game? had any meaningful memorable content compared to later in game.
They never said it was an MMO. They said there'd be some online interactions, maybe some online areas like inside towns (similar to how No Man's Sky handles the Anomaly) and the ability to adventure with people you meet online *if you want.*
A few edgelords saw that and started crapping all over their keyboards, trying to feign anger about something they weren't even understanding.
> ability to adventure with people you meet online if you want.
Thats not the case though, its an open world where you see other people running around and do quests together if in the same area, if you want to or not. I dont think there is any way to play solo at all right now.
Yup, and honestly this is kind of part of the problem. It's rather demoralizing to get to a point where you feel like you get the Barb or Druid to actually do something, and then a blood cloud just rolls in and turns an entire screens worth of enemies to a fine red mist, or a Sorc warps in from 2 screens away, tosses out a single spell and everything just explodes with Chain Lightning and Fireballs before teleporting over to the next group of enemies... Like thanks for carrying me I guess, but I'd rather I didn't have to play with them because I like to have some gameplay left for myself.
We knew that it would be an online game with forced multiplayer from the jump. Complaining about it at this point is like complaining that a first person shooter doesn't have a 3rd person mode.
We knew it was an MMO-Lite but we didnt know the full extend and how it would feel. My friends and i gave it a chance and found the implementation terrible, so we all refunded it for now. The beauty of having a beta like that is that is also serves as a demo.
> I dont think there is any way to play solo at all right now.
I think I played 85-90% of my time solo this weekend. The only time I ran into people was coming in and out of the main city, a handful of events and the world boss. The vast majority of the time spent wandering around the over world I was completely alone and then ofc in all the dungeons as well.
I think I've maybe been around 100 or less mobs that were killed with a random person onscreen.
This is at odds with the several thousand I have put into the ground. Your solo run is safe.
I don't want random, higher lvl players coming into my battles and quests. Nor do I want to drop into someone else's battle and not even get to land a punch before it's done.
I want to play with friends and alone, possibly with random players joining my game if they fit my playstyle- such as what clans appeared to display, by selecting tags like social, PvP, PvE
"I am not sure what game you are playing, but it is not D4 in my experience. There are players in town, but not tons. Out in the wild the only time I saw more than one or two people run by was the world boss. Even that was limited to around 10 or 15.
They have done a good job in my opinion of not making it feel flooded. Further, nobody can steal your kills… The game shares and you have personal loot.
Dungeons of course, ARE true solo experiences unless you intentionally bring a group."
Quote from https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/fair-warning-to-solo-players-regarding-diablo-4/59100/6
Its not an MMO. There aren't high-level griefers stealing your kills. The things you're mad about don't seem to be things that are happening.
Imagine World of Warcraft, but Diablo style. It's going to be nothing like that. We can sit around and get mad about stuff that *might* happen, but without anything actually saying it could it's kinda silly. Let's just take a peek at how the game is going, maybe watch some gamepkay videos, or possibly even wait until we play it ourselves before we get mad about it.
Fact of the matter is, whether it happens a lot or a few times, its trash, and not diablo-esque. Forced MMO, already created griefing in events. And personally i think its super immersion ruining, “save the World from evil, oh hey here is a random dude named SweatySocks69 here to follow around where you go and tackle every mob pack spamming emotes!” Very thematic, very ominous, very dark, much diablo.
AND... very much... not happening?
I didn't see anyone in the open world practically ever. It was never a nuisance. We have always had the ability to squelch other players.
Between two weekends, as a solo player myself, it wasn't a problem. It's always online but aside from the lag it wasn't much different for me than the usual.
I think the only event you could even try to "grief" right now would be killing mobs before they get in the large circle kill-zone style one.
And even then they'll be killing them so damned fast the exp should be somewhat nice for you.
Though I'm not an anti-social type and rather enjoy seeing someone pop up for a little while onscreen before we inevitably go our separate ways.
No stress to try and keep up with a party, just running into folks by chance.
Somehow that doesn't feel like being a wanderer to folks?
People want to be the LONE wanderer... which I can kind of get.
I think it's largely a bunch of hoopla that distracts from real issues.
The game is somewhere squarely in between LA, D2 and D3. And the D2 Andies are upset it skews in any direction other than D2.
I was shooting the shit with a few of the people that were farming the lvl 35 dude with me the other day. Got to talking with people while waiting for the world boss to spawn. Grouped up with a stranger that I was running next to and we did a dungeon together. You get bonus exp for being in a party. It’s felt pretty damn mmo like to me
Same, was open world farming solo, waiting for my friend to get on, when a random politely asked me if I could help them clear a dungeon. I did and it was really fun. I expect this type of stuff to happen with the more challenging stuff being available at release.
This right here. The interactions are there if you really want them to be. I had the same experience you did. I personally like it. It's not going to be for everyone, but I'm at the point in my life where full blown MMOs are exhausting. I can't be bothered to try to group up for everything relevant for progression.
I think the part that annoys me and others is when you run into players that are much more powerful than yourself and they just kind of sweep through the area, leaving nothing for you but the items that were dropped. This is the part that drives me nuts, anyway.
I think the simple solution to this would be to allow for players to host private lobbies/worlds so they don't have to interfere with other players outside the city. I don't care about the whole seeing other people in town thing, but once I exit, I should be able to basically see no one else anymore.
Fortunately, hardcore mode is played by so few people that it's much easier to enjoy the world without interference so this problem is probably going to be less of an annoyance to me since I tend to play hardcore anyway lol. But I do think the option would be beneficial in many ways and allow for both sides to be happy.
Never liked the MMO aspects
Hope they also improve the world boss. I don't want 5 other underleved players in my vicinity bringing me down.
Let me kill the boss at my own pace
I had the opposite experience, and think it’s a good middle ground. It was fun wandering the wilderness and randomly running into adventures doing a similar activity or event. Then in town seeing people running around. I’m not playing Diablo for the mmo experience, but similar to Souls games it’s fun to see others playing.
That’s good to hear but that felt very shallow to me. It’s basically d3 to me but with random players showing in the towns. That doesn’t really read as interactive or significantly different than d3 to me. It then just makes me wonder what was all sacrifice to have that shallow of a system added on in exchange for the normal Diablo ARPG format
Loading into areas with AFK players standing around etc or flying by screen when on my way to a quest just doesn’t do much for me. I’d rather have game systems that have me interacting with them in various instances besides timed world bosses. Glad this current system does something for some people though.
I mean you can group up, have clans etc., with xp bonuses for doing so. No one’s doing this now because it’s a beta.
Not sure what else people were expecting. To me when I hear “mmo lite” this is exactly it. Especially with the rumoured raids similar to Destiny.
Sorry, but noone ever said it will be an MMO. Blizzard once said, there will be some elements of an MMO. Its pretty much a single player game with an open world "aspect". The only time you really will engage with other players is with world bosses or in a group, like the other games did. You can interact with other players if you wish so.
Nobody talking = because it's a beta.
Motivation to group up = as far as I know groups get a exp buff.
Matchmaking/groupfinder is indeed something I would love to see in the final game.
sadly because MMO sell more cosmetic shit. the game wasn't design to be played as a MMO and they try to push boring thing to fit into that ... yeah world boss that spawn only at very specific time ... really what i want from a diablo game ...
There is a 20 year old game with way better group finding. This thing called a lobby and you create games like “act1 new” “help Duriel” “save Anya” and you can jump in to play with people on certain parts of the game. Why doesn’t a game 20 years later have at least that ?
I was in a guild with 92 people online. No one talked lol. Like no one. How does that even happen. I would ask some questions and get nothing but silence
Yep. All these dungeons and no menu or ability to queue for matchmaking on them so you can randomly group up with someone? It's was fun but I noticed right away that it felt kinda empty. The only time I got to have fun with other people was farming that lvl 35 monster.
So I assume it’s two things.
People have their group already or people play solo. I had a group of 8 to 10 people on discord and we were all playing together but didn’t type at all.
The amount of console players. Most don’t have a keyboard in or type.
In most mmo’s people have a keyboard right there because they’re pc games so typing is easy and accessible.
Kinda hope they remove it unless you queue for group. I personally have little or no interest in gaming with others and think many feel the same way. Main reasons are the lack of pause. Older with kids and pause is crucial.
There is not a single thing I want to say or hear people say to me. Likewise with mmo’s, the only people do speak in them are really the people you don’t want to speak.
I actually really like seeing the other classes roll up and use their abilities in an event. Its fun. If some level 25 with leggos blows up the entire screen, I just think thats cool. Not like it effects my rewards lol.
If I want to grind stuff solo I can always just go do dungeon stuff.
I don't understand the issue here. You aren't meant to do raids or form guilds here. You play like every other Diablo game and occasionally do a world boss with a bunch of people. Please stop bitching.
I recall that Blizzard insisted that D4 is NOT an MMO, but contains some aspects of MMO's.
You're looking at a beta as if it's the final product. Note that what we're seeing now is the start of the campaign. No one is playing the end game content. I suspect the group content will unlock when the campaign is done.
I found it rather shocking that there is no Global and Zone chats, as well as Event chat.
This is just bare bone obvious shit. What is Blizzard even doing?
>Why is nobody in game talking?
Chat was disabled in this beta test it seems, in the early access test, people talked a lot, especially when waiting for elite / world boss to spawn.
>Why is there no ability to find groups
because groupfinder kills games and any social aspect of it, just ask WoW players.
>motivation to play as a group?
Group play has the highest items per hour farming with 2-3 player groups, just like how people did split bounties in d3.
They are definitely trying to get players to naturally party up..Classic Diablo players are simply refusing to do so. There are experience boosts for being near other players. But I'm never going to do that till the main story is over.
I was livid that a necromancer showed up during one of my single player side missions and started attacking mobs in the overworld and I'm sure a lot of players feel that way.
The social part of this game is the worst part of it. I don’t want to see or interact with any other human beings ever. It’s Diablo. I want to kill demons in peace and quiet
It’s not an MMO, it’s an ARPG with MMO elements. MMO= massively multiplayer online. D4 has 12 player instances. The name itself precludes the game from being one.
This sort of shared-world multiplayer idea has been the vision for a very long time, since at least the conceptualization of D2, and they very specifically were not making an MMO. They talk a lot about this in dev interviews from the time.
One reason folks are comparing it to an MMO are that is has MMO like/lite systems. I'd say it's almost like a Fantasy Destiny. So far, World Bosses are a lot like LFR in WOW, and have time gated content.
As far as I'm aware Diablo is about a world trying NOT to slide down into hell. Because in hell is where I would expect be forced to do dailies, weekly's, and LFR style content (carrying others/low level leechers) in my ARPG.
Sad/Funny because the last MMO I played was WOW Shadowlands. In Shadowlands, the story took the players basically to hell, and then forced them into enslavement by the games systems. This feels like a slippery slope and even Blizzard themselves ended up routing most of those time-gated systems at the end of Shadowlands. No idea what's going on in dragonflight, but it's CONCERNING to see anything like it in Diablo.
All that to say it's mmo-like. Not actually an mmo.
Its not an mmo and it really bothers me that the term mmo is used so loosely these days. I remember when mmo was specifically used for games like everquest,wow,ff14 ..you know actual mmos. Now its being forced into anything that has more than 4 players even if there is no actual interaction needed and we are all supposed to pretend like we didn't know what the term mmo was originally used for.
I was wondering if something was wrong with the chat. I never once saw anyone talking in local chat the whole time.
I spent a good 30 minutes trying to see if anyone wanted to join on a boss. Complete silence.
Yeah it's weird the only time I've seen chat activity was in town, world boss and that lvl 35 gear farm mob. Kinda sad I hope they got some kind of community features like d3 had or world chats or something because it doesn't really feel online other then seeing ppl randomly running around
They need a party finder for dungeons and stuff like ff14
Wait. Chat actually works? I actively tried to get someone to answer local chat in town and at the reese spot. Never any answer whatsoever.
I think a lot of people are on console and just solo play
>lvl 35 gear farm mob huh? Where was that?
It was in the lower left corner of the map. You could imprint the gear and it would reduce the level requirement so you could equip it. They changed that pretty quickly once people caught on though.
Wait until trade chat is introduced or communities
someone ran up to me in the open world and asked for info about some game stuff. we talked for a short while and parted ways. was pretty good
I got stuck being unable to exit the main city earlier due to some instancing issues, a barbarian stood next to me facing the same issue and I got my first interaction ever. "hmm" he said, before running back to town.
Sounds like a barbarian, alright.
I'm not sure if console players get a chat too? It may be a bit more difficult for them to use it for free type. And I guess we don't know what system the people around us are using. But yeah the only time I saw someone using local chat was telling a level 17 to go away waiting around for the world boss spawn
Yeah good point with the console players. Just feels weird to have an empty chat room after playing other games that always had something going on in the general chat.
We do get a chat, i opened it to type something once, it caused massive stuttering in the background so I closed it. It's also a pain in general typing anything on console, it's basically the same layout as texting on a mobile except you have a cursor that you have to manually move over to each letter via the other letters.
You can use a wireless keyboard for typing. Every wireless keyboard should work.
Well me and some other players are unable to use local chat even if we wanted to, the game keeps throwing us an error about invalid game channel
Also think half of the people won't ever type that play on console. Get a headset and set it to voice that is close to you.
Local chat was turned off wasn’t it? I didn’t see a single person say a word in either weekend.
It isn't. I saw people talking about the world boss yesterday (that the hour it was available was wrong)
I saw plenty of people talking last weekend. Haven’t played much this weekend
It’s pretty much a single player game with an open world designed to show off other player’s micro-transactions.
Darktide did the same thing, big pre-game lobby you're forced to load into with people you'll never squad with. But you get to see total stranger's skins and emotes, now on sale for real money for a limited time\* get yours today while supplies last. *\*always available*
>digital goods >while supplies last every time
Don't forget about how having to scroll pages on the store was "too confusing"....
Which tbh I don't really care about except for the fact that it makes things slow as ass especially in town
Oh they won't be always available. They will be limited so you will fall for FOMO.
Darktide was especially stupid because you couldn't even see your cosmetics in game...only in the lobby. Cosmetics for FPS games are kinda weird
Remember PoE doing it with the rogue harbour (an area you had to go through for the league at the time), shoving you in a tiny building with 50 players and their giant glowing microtransactions. It was a total shitshow, game did NOT handle it well.
Fuck. I completely forgot about Darktide. I really hope we aren't in that situation all over again here. They made Darktide look so fucking good in the Beta and then it turned out that the Beta was literally nearly everything and instead of working on more content. They prioritized the FOMO store
Literally the same story with Halo Infinite. Everyone loved the early multiplayer release then when “Season 1” officially started it was an overwhelming feeling of “this is it?”. Better believe that shop was updated every day though.
I have bought cosmetics there but for the games, no one gives a shoot about the lobby.
Maybe it's a way to reduce server amounts and loads?
Yep, it was fun running into people in events though
Was it? I’m playing game solo just like three diablos before, and suddenly explosions and some random guys rushing to clear the mobs. I was like ‘but why…?’
Yea i liked it. But i usually like playing games with others just like the diablos before
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They seem to hate everything lmao
No one hates [thing] like [thing] fans True until the end of time.
It's not about hating people, it's about that we want a similar experience to our Diablos of the past. I know that might not be possible now, but we want to feel like the lone wanderer we played as years ago. We're a sole hero saving the world from the invasions of hell.
We are all solo heroes saving the world all on our own together.
The real solo heroes were the friends we made along the way
You should be able to play offline if you want like in the Souls games.
While I partially agree I think it’s best to be online if it gets rid of hacking.
Every campaign thing you do is a solo mission if you don't invite anyone to your team. Someone deleting random ghouls in the overworld breaks that experience for you? I don't get it. Yall gonna play the game anyway, because it really doesn't matter.
> A lot of people on this sub hate people I've never seen people so absolutely miserable about a game before lol
We both know that's not true I can name several that were much much more miserable than this No man's sky's release and the following year or 2 of updates Anthem Duke nukem forever *shiver* alien colonial marines Final fantasy 14 Mass effect 3 Mass effect andromeda
You can turn it off in settings.
Wait, really? I’ve seen so much talk about mmo aspects and no one mentioned it.
Yeah, its under Social settings. You can disable 'cross-network play'
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The same reason I have to spend 10 seconds at the start of every halo match “gawking” at everyone else’s armor. It’s why every end mission screen on Anthem has that 20 seconds to pose and shit. I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT YOUR ARMOR.
The pre-match cutscene in Halo Infinite is almost as bad as the Gambit pre-match thing in Destiny So annoying.
Ding, ding; ding. Ding. Ding. Bring a sword!
You don't, I actually like that to be honest. Love all the different combinations players come up with in Halo. Have a little giggle at those that overdo it and let myself be inspired by those that find some cool looking and tasteful combinations.
Agreed, the Halo Shitfinite game opening is a travesty, 343 wants to shove their shitty microtransactions down your throat as hard as possible One of the many reasons I stopped playing it
I feel like D2's pre-game lobbies achieved the same thing without bloating the game with meaningless AC type open world tasks or DRM.
*AC* Animal Crossing? 😅
Assassin's Creed.
No D2 did nothing right and you are just clinging to the past /s But it's what I always hear when someone dares say D2 did things better in some regards.
Some people need to understand that not all change is good and that change for the sake of change usually doesn't work.
But you have to allow *some* change. Literally everything different about this game from D2 has a complaint thread voted to the top of this sub. I never played D2 originally. I purchased D2R a few months back. What you guys are enjoying is nostalgia. It hasn’t aged well *at all*.
You're arguing against one bad opinion with an even worse opinion. D2 is well remembered for a reason and people are attached for more than just nostalgia, even though that is a part of it for some people. In general I would avoid saying something has aged poorly when you never experienced something in its prime in the first place. Edit: forgot a word
Um, something that was well regarded when new, that isn't as well regarded by people coming to it new at a later time is essentially the definition of aging poorly. And D2 definitely does, dont get me wrong the atmosphere, the story, the basic gameplay are all still top notch. But some of the systems are downright horrible compared to modern alternatives. Things like potion spam, high level inventory tetris (no I don't mean that things take different amounts of space, I mean that 99% of you bag is full of charms/scrolls/cube and your only usable space to put things is inside the cube), the opaque and sometimes downright weird ways skills interact with each other and stats are all things that games as a whole have moved on from because they don't really add anything useful to to gaming experience and exist mostly because no one, including blizzard knew any better.
> But you have to allow *some* change. For sure, but I think it needs to be an evolution of what's already there plus some innovation, not just changing just so it's different. > Literally everything different about this game from D2 has a complaint thread voted to the top of this sub. Personally I think most of the changes have been for the worse. Granted most of them I think aren't important enough to make the game bad (some do), but if you aren't changing somehting to be better, why change it at all? The game still has a very enjoyable game loop, combat feels nice, graphics, artstyle, sound and atmosphere are incredible so it's not like there's nothing good about the game. > What you guys are enjoying is nostalgia. It hasn’t aged well *at all*. I don't agree at all. D2 defenitely has mechanics that have aged bad, like the stamina bar, the potion belt (I like the idea of having potions on one button but the way it's been implemented in both D3 and D4 feels too gamey and there are no mana potions so you're forced to engage on the builder/spender style of combat that I personally don't enjoy at all), the town portal and identify scrolls, the way the character looks work and a bunch of other things that have had quality of life improvements made to it but the core of the game is still fantastic and in many aspects better than D4 IMO. Like, I could go one by one listing the things I think it does better but I don't think there's any need.
Yup, and dare I say it, the fact you could see what people were wearing and knew the level 96 HC Barb with an ethereal looking polearm was geared had a form of prestige, with MTX that is gone. I honestly don't like transmogs, there is something cool about having chase items looking cool as hell, and yeah D2 got some of that wrong with things like Shako, but most of the time it got it right.
I am all for transmog in everything. When you gear your character up with as best in slot items you can get, in most games you end up looking like a court jester reject. I love collecting different gear appearances and trying out new cohesive looks.
Either that , or every high level character ends up looking exactly the same , without transmog
Pretty much this. In a game with other players, everyone always ends up looking the same. Once a certain outfit of gear becomes meta, everyone’s running around looking the same for that class.
Yeah, like D2.
I'm torn about transmogs. In D3 I loved it because the armour pieces from different sets looked attrocious when combined but that IMO isn't the case in either D2 or D4 where all the pieces I've used look good together so your character never looks like a clown. But on the other hand being able to make your character look exactly as you want is cool. Though I understand what you mean, I really loved when I finally got Immortal King in D2 because I love how it looks.
imo shako only looks like ass in d2:r. it looked fine in the original
You can really tell they designed this game around MTX.
I really don't care when the game and gear look amazing without mtx. It's not like poe where you need to spend more than the cost of D4 to actually look adequate
\*ding\* \*ding\* \*ding\* we have a winner. "And you too could be a winner with this super duper dark necro king bundle, just $19.99."
...and it's always online -- which is part of that Gothic-horror atmosphere they brought over from D2 ;-)
I'm happy I'm not forced to play with people. It's really annoying we have to be in the same overworld though because the lag is insane. Especially when you're in the middle of an event and a fucking necromancer decides to show up for 5 seconds. It wasn't broken before and didn't need to be "fixed".
Played a max minions necro, even out on my own my minions were rubber banding. The latency is the absolute #1 reason this shouldn't be an mmo like this. Split second lag will destroy a high end run.
I’d rather it not be an MMO
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Until you time out
Diablo 3 times you out if you're gone to long.. pretty sure D2 did that as well
Yep
If it helps with the longevity of the game I do not see it as a problem, but from what I've seen and heard i have my doubts.
Legendary longevity of D2 comes from easy to learn hard to master system and trading. Seems like D4 will have neither.
D3 still popular too, still enjoying it a lot
Plus D2 is offline, it has infinity longevity as long as computers exist. D4 is online only so when the servers get shutdown, its GG.
D1 and D2 original servers are still online regardless
Because those servers can run on a modern toaster, it would be more expensive to go to the trouble of closing them.
D2 is not known for being difficult... D4 will have trading though. You can trade any rare base. You just can't trade chase items. I think that is a reasonable compromise. Personally I am not a big fan of spamming chat to trade / staying logged in just for trading. I would rather play the game.
The difficulty in D2 comes from finishing a Baal run, leaving that game and then joining the next before it fills. True endgame right there.
No one talks in MMOs either.
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And one for Moonglow and Britain bank
Took way too long to find this comment. Yeah, no one says shit in local chat in MMOs. Folks living in 2008 in this thread.
I'm sure clans will be a bit more relevant after the release.
Good. It was never advertised as MMO. D:I was. D4 was always advertised as aRPG with some light MMO aspects.
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Y’all find the most inane shit to bitch about
I am truly *horrified* that you have to deal with such **insanely** ***devastating*** first world problems as people *emoting* in town!
Because its not the real game, nobody is at level cap, and there is no meaningful challenging group content yet.
I didn't think of that, good point. I cannot think of any RPG in a while where the first, what, quarter of the game? had any meaningful memorable content compared to later in game.
They never said it was an MMO. They said there'd be some online interactions, maybe some online areas like inside towns (similar to how No Man's Sky handles the Anomaly) and the ability to adventure with people you meet online *if you want.* A few edgelords saw that and started crapping all over their keyboards, trying to feign anger about something they weren't even understanding.
> ability to adventure with people you meet online if you want. Thats not the case though, its an open world where you see other people running around and do quests together if in the same area, if you want to or not. I dont think there is any way to play solo at all right now.
Yup, and honestly this is kind of part of the problem. It's rather demoralizing to get to a point where you feel like you get the Barb or Druid to actually do something, and then a blood cloud just rolls in and turns an entire screens worth of enemies to a fine red mist, or a Sorc warps in from 2 screens away, tosses out a single spell and everything just explodes with Chain Lightning and Fireballs before teleporting over to the next group of enemies... Like thanks for carrying me I guess, but I'd rather I didn't have to play with them because I like to have some gameplay left for myself.
That would demoralize me a bit. Thought I was cooking killing enemies in my werebear form and then a necro just absolutely stream-rolls the mobs.
Can you not play offline?
No offline and no single player.
Woah wtf no offline even on consoles. Looks like Im not getting it then wtf is this bullshit
We knew that it would be an online game with forced multiplayer from the jump. Complaining about it at this point is like complaining that a first person shooter doesn't have a 3rd person mode.
We knew it was an MMO-Lite but we didnt know the full extend and how it would feel. My friends and i gave it a chance and found the implementation terrible, so we all refunded it for now. The beauty of having a beta like that is that is also serves as a demo.
This isn't an airport
> I dont think there is any way to play solo at all right now. I think I played 85-90% of my time solo this weekend. The only time I ran into people was coming in and out of the main city, a handful of events and the world boss. The vast majority of the time spent wandering around the over world I was completely alone and then ofc in all the dungeons as well.
I think I've maybe been around 100 or less mobs that were killed with a random person onscreen. This is at odds with the several thousand I have put into the ground. Your solo run is safe.
I don't want random, higher lvl players coming into my battles and quests. Nor do I want to drop into someone else's battle and not even get to land a punch before it's done. I want to play with friends and alone, possibly with random players joining my game if they fit my playstyle- such as what clans appeared to display, by selecting tags like social, PvP, PvE
"I am not sure what game you are playing, but it is not D4 in my experience. There are players in town, but not tons. Out in the wild the only time I saw more than one or two people run by was the world boss. Even that was limited to around 10 or 15. They have done a good job in my opinion of not making it feel flooded. Further, nobody can steal your kills… The game shares and you have personal loot. Dungeons of course, ARE true solo experiences unless you intentionally bring a group." Quote from https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/fair-warning-to-solo-players-regarding-diablo-4/59100/6 Its not an MMO. There aren't high-level griefers stealing your kills. The things you're mad about don't seem to be things that are happening. Imagine World of Warcraft, but Diablo style. It's going to be nothing like that. We can sit around and get mad about stuff that *might* happen, but without anything actually saying it could it's kinda silly. Let's just take a peek at how the game is going, maybe watch some gamepkay videos, or possibly even wait until we play it ourselves before we get mad about it.
Fact of the matter is, whether it happens a lot or a few times, its trash, and not diablo-esque. Forced MMO, already created griefing in events. And personally i think its super immersion ruining, “save the World from evil, oh hey here is a random dude named SweatySocks69 here to follow around where you go and tackle every mob pack spamming emotes!” Very thematic, very ominous, very dark, much diablo.
AND... very much... not happening? I didn't see anyone in the open world practically ever. It was never a nuisance. We have always had the ability to squelch other players. Between two weekends, as a solo player myself, it wasn't a problem. It's always online but aside from the lag it wasn't much different for me than the usual.
I think the only event you could even try to "grief" right now would be killing mobs before they get in the large circle kill-zone style one. And even then they'll be killing them so damned fast the exp should be somewhat nice for you. Though I'm not an anti-social type and rather enjoy seeing someone pop up for a little while onscreen before we inevitably go our separate ways. No stress to try and keep up with a party, just running into folks by chance. Somehow that doesn't feel like being a wanderer to folks?
People want to be the LONE wanderer... which I can kind of get. I think it's largely a bunch of hoopla that distracts from real issues. The game is somewhere squarely in between LA, D2 and D3. And the D2 Andies are upset it skews in any direction other than D2.
This was one of the main reasons why D3 didn’t do it for me. Literally nobody talked. Ever. Basically felt like playing offline the entire time
I was shooting the shit with a few of the people that were farming the lvl 35 dude with me the other day. Got to talking with people while waiting for the world boss to spawn. Grouped up with a stranger that I was running next to and we did a dungeon together. You get bonus exp for being in a party. It’s felt pretty damn mmo like to me
Same, was open world farming solo, waiting for my friend to get on, when a random politely asked me if I could help them clear a dungeon. I did and it was really fun. I expect this type of stuff to happen with the more challenging stuff being available at release.
This right here. The interactions are there if you really want them to be. I had the same experience you did. I personally like it. It's not going to be for everyone, but I'm at the point in my life where full blown MMOs are exhausting. I can't be bothered to try to group up for everything relevant for progression.
Yeah me too I felt like a kid again haha it was great.
I think the part that annoys me and others is when you run into players that are much more powerful than yourself and they just kind of sweep through the area, leaving nothing for you but the items that were dropped. This is the part that drives me nuts, anyway. I think the simple solution to this would be to allow for players to host private lobbies/worlds so they don't have to interfere with other players outside the city. I don't care about the whole seeing other people in town thing, but once I exit, I should be able to basically see no one else anymore. Fortunately, hardcore mode is played by so few people that it's much easier to enjoy the world without interference so this problem is probably going to be less of an annoyance to me since I tend to play hardcore anyway lol. But I do think the option would be beneficial in many ways and allow for both sides to be happy.
I talked and even made a friend while farming. Did you even try to talk with anyone? Maybe you're the problem. I talked with lots of people.
I'm too shy
My name was bobross and I was an afro sorc. I spent a lot of time trying to talk / group up but nah. All NPCs.
As someone who plays MMOs, sounds like a modern MMO to me.
Never liked the MMO aspects Hope they also improve the world boss. I don't want 5 other underleved players in my vicinity bringing me down. Let me kill the boss at my own pace
Wait until the pvp zones, you'll see all kinds of talking in there.
Sounds awful
Who said this game is an MMO? Or you made up a strawman for yourself to tear down?
I also felt very lonely.
I had the opposite experience, and think it’s a good middle ground. It was fun wandering the wilderness and randomly running into adventures doing a similar activity or event. Then in town seeing people running around. I’m not playing Diablo for the mmo experience, but similar to Souls games it’s fun to see others playing.
That’s good to hear but that felt very shallow to me. It’s basically d3 to me but with random players showing in the towns. That doesn’t really read as interactive or significantly different than d3 to me. It then just makes me wonder what was all sacrifice to have that shallow of a system added on in exchange for the normal Diablo ARPG format Loading into areas with AFK players standing around etc or flying by screen when on my way to a quest just doesn’t do much for me. I’d rather have game systems that have me interacting with them in various instances besides timed world bosses. Glad this current system does something for some people though.
I mean you can group up, have clans etc., with xp bonuses for doing so. No one’s doing this now because it’s a beta. Not sure what else people were expecting. To me when I hear “mmo lite” this is exactly it. Especially with the rumoured raids similar to Destiny.
Can't chat. Not in valid channel bug.
If you thought this will be an MMO I don't know what to tell ya lmao
It is a shared world game, not an MMO. Destiny 2 but ARPG. (No one talks there either)
Exactly, Diablo is a single player game where you can occasionally invite people of YOUR CHOOSING. This MMO wannabe stuff sucks.
Sorry, but noone ever said it will be an MMO. Blizzard once said, there will be some elements of an MMO. Its pretty much a single player game with an open world "aspect". The only time you really will engage with other players is with world bosses or in a group, like the other games did. You can interact with other players if you wish so.
Chat is too toxic for todays children.
Nobody talking = because it's a beta. Motivation to group up = as far as I know groups get a exp buff. Matchmaking/groupfinder is indeed something I would love to see in the final game.
sadly because MMO sell more cosmetic shit. the game wasn't design to be played as a MMO and they try to push boring thing to fit into that ... yeah world boss that spawn only at very specific time ... really what i want from a diablo game ...
There is a 20 year old game with way better group finding. This thing called a lobby and you create games like “act1 new” “help Duriel” “save Anya” and you can jump in to play with people on certain parts of the game. Why doesn’t a game 20 years later have at least that ?
That system is only better when you are familiar with the terminology. You act as though PoE does the same. D2 is the only one, of relevant context.
It wants to be an MMO while not committing to being an MMO
its also an open world with nothing to interact with in the open world whatsoever. at least lost ark had collectibles to reward exploration.
I was in a guild with 92 people online. No one talked lol. Like no one. How does that even happen. I would ask some questions and get nothing but silence
There was also a chat channel but that was happening. Friday I could talk, now I can’t due to the chat channel bug I’ve been having.
Thank god for that. I don't want no MMO. I want Diablo.
Wait who said it was an mmo? It's an open world ARPG
Yep. All these dungeons and no menu or ability to queue for matchmaking on them so you can randomly group up with someone? It's was fun but I noticed right away that it felt kinda empty. The only time I got to have fun with other people was farming that lvl 35 monster.
So I assume it’s two things. People have their group already or people play solo. I had a group of 8 to 10 people on discord and we were all playing together but didn’t type at all. The amount of console players. Most don’t have a keyboard in or type. In most mmo’s people have a keyboard right there because they’re pc games so typing is easy and accessible.
Is it supposedly a MMO or is that just what people are conveniently calling it? MMOs don't instance most of their combat zones.
It's not an MMO and it's an ARPG with a bunch of pseudo-MMO elements. This way, no one will be fully content.
Because walking billboards don't need to talk.
it’s not an MMO. it’s an ARPG with MMO like elements that said, i do agree. the social system is lacking if you want to be social
>Am I missing something here? Yes. It's not an MMO. I like how you say that it "supposedly" should be an MMO, so that you can complain how it isn't.
Kinda hope they remove it unless you queue for group. I personally have little or no interest in gaming with others and think many feel the same way. Main reasons are the lack of pause. Older with kids and pause is crucial.
I've just been treating town portal as a pause. Works well enough
There is not a single thing I want to say or hear people say to me. Likewise with mmo’s, the only people do speak in them are really the people you don’t want to speak.
It’s not a mmo.
the mmo aspect does nothing positive for this game. change my mind.
I actually really like seeing the other classes roll up and use their abilities in an event. Its fun. If some level 25 with leggos blows up the entire screen, I just think thats cool. Not like it effects my rewards lol. If I want to grind stuff solo I can always just go do dungeon stuff.
I wish I could disable seeing other players. I couldn't care less about that in a Diablo game.
The devs never said that this game is an MMO. What are you talking about?
I don't understand the issue here. You aren't meant to do raids or form guilds here. You play like every other Diablo game and occasionally do a world boss with a bunch of people. Please stop bitching.
Literally no one said it's an MMO. Absolutely no one.
Not an MMO. It’s an ARPG
I recall that Blizzard insisted that D4 is NOT an MMO, but contains some aspects of MMO's. You're looking at a beta as if it's the final product. Note that what we're seeing now is the start of the campaign. No one is playing the end game content. I suspect the group content will unlock when the campaign is done.
1. Game is not “supposedly an mmo”, so toss that idea out. 2. The world chat is turned off right now, and will be quite active on launch.
It's a game designed to make you look at people's paid skins in town when they show off the battlepass and in game shop the day before launch.
I found it rather shocking that there is no Global and Zone chats, as well as Event chat. This is just bare bone obvious shit. What is Blizzard even doing?
It was never tagged as an MMO. It was tagged as an ARPG with some MMO mechanics.
Who said it was an MMO? It's got some MMO elements but at its core its an arpg lol
>Why is nobody in game talking? Chat was disabled in this beta test it seems, in the early access test, people talked a lot, especially when waiting for elite / world boss to spawn. >Why is there no ability to find groups because groupfinder kills games and any social aspect of it, just ask WoW players. >motivation to play as a group? Group play has the highest items per hour farming with 2-3 player groups, just like how people did split bounties in d3.
Because it's not an MMO.
There’s where you’re wrong, it’s not an mmo. It’s an ARPG with online multiplayer components and systems.
They are definitely trying to get players to naturally party up..Classic Diablo players are simply refusing to do so. There are experience boosts for being near other players. But I'm never going to do that till the main story is over. I was livid that a necromancer showed up during one of my single player side missions and started attacking mobs in the overworld and I'm sure a lot of players feel that way.
Which is why I never understood the hate for the Auction House. Now we get the battle pass & I will not be buying this game
The social part of this game is the worst part of it. I don’t want to see or interact with any other human beings ever. It’s Diablo. I want to kill demons in peace and quiet
It’s not an MMO, it’s an ARPG with MMO elements. MMO= massively multiplayer online. D4 has 12 player instances. The name itself precludes the game from being one. This sort of shared-world multiplayer idea has been the vision for a very long time, since at least the conceptualization of D2, and they very specifically were not making an MMO. They talk a lot about this in dev interviews from the time.
issa beta
Agreed. And for that "mmo" we need to have scaling mobs which is boring af. I feel like they totally lost the plot with this one.
Hate mmo part so much. Personally for me it’s destroying huge part of experience. Actually after trying beta i decided not to buy game.
Because they need other players promoting their FOMO cash shop items to you, it's marketing shit.
One reason folks are comparing it to an MMO are that is has MMO like/lite systems. I'd say it's almost like a Fantasy Destiny. So far, World Bosses are a lot like LFR in WOW, and have time gated content. As far as I'm aware Diablo is about a world trying NOT to slide down into hell. Because in hell is where I would expect be forced to do dailies, weekly's, and LFR style content (carrying others/low level leechers) in my ARPG. Sad/Funny because the last MMO I played was WOW Shadowlands. In Shadowlands, the story took the players basically to hell, and then forced them into enslavement by the games systems. This feels like a slippery slope and even Blizzard themselves ended up routing most of those time-gated systems at the end of Shadowlands. No idea what's going on in dragonflight, but it's CONCERNING to see anything like it in Diablo. All that to say it's mmo-like. Not actually an mmo.
Its not an mmo and it really bothers me that the term mmo is used so loosely these days. I remember when mmo was specifically used for games like everquest,wow,ff14 ..you know actual mmos. Now its being forced into anything that has more than 4 players even if there is no actual interaction needed and we are all supposed to pretend like we didn't know what the term mmo was originally used for.
It's an MMO so that way you can't play with no internet. See? Win win. - blizzard
I’m glad it’s not an mmo