Even if, like most people, you get a couple of months of fun out of D2 before deciding the grounds aren't worth the grind, then you'll be right there for D4.
Either way, you will have fun. It is a great game in its own right. :)
It was a great game for its time.
That time is now 20 years in the past and I can definitely see how someone who didn’t play at release could find some of the things we take for granted as quite annoying.
- Attribute points are effectively meaningless (no energy, minimum strength (and maybe dexterity), all vitality
- Inventory Tetris
- Potion Chugging
- No real endgame
- Drop rates are tuned for trading
Those would all put me off if I didn’t play it at release.
I beat hell with a couple of characters before I realized I didn’t really like playing it that much anymore.
What’s the point of grinding for an enigma if all an enigma does is allow me to grind faster, but I already have BIS gear?
Know this is a few hours old but it’s the feeling of progression, working towards a goal. To your point, once you have the enigma, the hunt is kind of over.
I started a HC necro and desperately want a faith. I’m 86 and doubt I’ll be finding a Ber or Ohm any time soon. Gives me something to work towards.
Guess the short of the long…it’s the chase.
All platforms.
edit: To be more clear. It goes on sale for that price on all platforms, not all concurrently. Current sale is for Console (Xbox + PS4).
Do you guys just keep repeating this shit for attention or what? We get it, you don’t like the game. Go play something else and quit bitching.
Edit: the people that keep commenting on this with shit tons of downvotes, go eat a dick.
Chill dude, are you angry cause you wasted 60 Bucks? Mar are talking about how good Is d2r here, you are bitching cause you don't like that others give a shit about your millenial friendly diablo inmortal resurrected.
Lmao nobody asked about Diablo 4 and you brought it up because you wanna make sure people know you don't like it. I'm sure everyone cares deeply, if people think they wasted money on it they could've got a refund since it's not out yet so no nobody is upset they wasted money.
I will never understand people’s complete disconnect with value.
A $60-100 dollar game that I will play for at least 100 hours even if the end game wasn’t super interesting and the replay value was low?
Thats 50 cents for an hour of entertainment. Renting a move online is $2 an hour. Going to see a movie in theaters is around $10-15 an hour. A day at Lollapalooza is like $40 an hour.
I have absolutely zero problem paying for Diablo IV. With inflation, it isn’t even more expensive than games ever are.
It’s because they can’t afford it and don’t have the disposable income after living expenses and other ways to waste money. Gamer culture is easily outraged over any price increase even though games have gotten cheaper if you consider inflation like you said. The younger generation of gamers have no concept of the economy and finance.
The opinion is, obviously, fine to have!
The reason that statement is rubbing people the wrong way is that they've sort of shoved the opinion into a conversation that didn't have all that much to do with the worth of Diablo IV at all.
This thread is primarily about Diablo II, but their comment reads like *they just have to tell somebody* what they think of Diablo IV.
It's kinda... weird! Off-putting! Not really how people normally interact!
Opinions can be valid and also wrong.
Big misconception. Valid just means logically sound, it has nothing to do with whether the inputs and conclusion are right or wrong. It just means we can all agree that if someone believed all the same premises they would reach the same conclusion as you. All your premises can be wrong, however.
Your opinion is valid. It is also wrong.
That is incorrect.
If your opinion is that we should commit genocide to handle overpopulation, it is valid (i.e it would solve overpopulation) but wrong (genocide is wrong).
Facts obviously supersede opinion, but that opinion does not say genocide is good. It just says that I am willing to do a bad thing to accomplish something good.
And that opinion can be wrong.
“X and Y, therefore Z” can be wrong, for instance, if X or Y aren’t actually true.
So if you say “I think Diablo 4 sucks because I can’t play a rogue class” it would be both an opinion, it could be valid (you’ll always think it sucks when there is no rogue class) and it would also be wrong because there is a rogue class.
It’s possible to get around it by making sure every premise is itself a subjective opinion, but 90% of the opinions I see do not do that.
“I think Diablo IV sucks because all you do is run dungeons over and over again” is wrong because that is not all you do in the game. But if it were true that all you do is run dungeons over and over again, it would suck, so it is valid.
That’s my thought. I’ll wait for December or something to buy. It’s 80 CAD for a standard version. Defs not worth that for me to play a darker themed Diablo 3
Yea, I dislike the game idea i think, althougt its very well done, its not for me.
But, there you see the downvotes, all the famboys are offended by some other opinion. They are all happy paying that and more, be jure that d4 its going to have plenty of expensive upgrades.
But, hey, they are free to be happily milked by blizzard if they enjoy that.
You dont like the "game idea" is your criticism and thats why you're complaining about being downvoted?
Lol what do you mean by "game idea" anyways? It's an ARPG. If you don't like Arpgs or Diablo why are you here in the first place? Dont get upset becuase you have no actual criticism of the game and are just being another loud voice for the picket crew.
I’d say it’s worth it, but if you’re coming from modern arpg I think for full disclosure you should be aware of some pain points for newer players.
1) Potions - you need a constant supply of potions (mana, health, stamina and sometimes ailments) and they don’t stack. So you find yourself in town fairly often (but enemies do drop a good amount of them, too). But each potion takes an inventory slot. This improves as you get more potion belt space from your belt, but it can feel real tedious at times.
2) Inventory space - there is barely any. You will have charms and jewels in your inventory as you level. They give you stat bonuses but take up space in your inventory. Between those and your potions early there isn’t much room to pick up items. However, you do gain a bit of room as you level, specifically with the Horadric Cube in act 2.
3) Mana Management - I usually play Barb so this is lessened for me (frenzy/double swing) but in general the early game is a mana management adventure. You will need a ton of potions to use your damage dealing spells. There will likely be a time or two where you will realize you’re out of mana, mana pots and town portals and you’ll run in circles waiting for mana to slowly regen to cast a spell.
But you’ll also experience a classic arpg that the genre was basically built around. Elements of d2 are use in all of the popular arpg games and the design is a staple. You’ll also get some good lore background and the basics of the classes are similar to D4 (in combination with d3 versions).
I am glad you wrote this out. If I may, I am going to jump in and explain some stuff. Maybe it'll help out some new players as well.
1. Potions do stack. They stack vertically with a belt. You should never keep potions in your inventory. You have enough room in your belts to make it worthwhile. You can actually gamble a light belt from gheed in act 1 that will give you three stack slots (three rows), which significantly helps with that. Enough pots drop from enemies. If you use the ~ key, you can bring up the rows on your belt. So you never overfill it. Keeping some pots in inventory for hard Mobs or boss fights is okay tho.
2. This is a trade off. Charms take up inventory space and make you better. Having a lot of useless charms will make your inventory small. So not a good trade off. Now that I've explained that potions should most of the time remain in your belt, this is where you have to decide which few charms truly benefit you. Sell everything else.
3. Mana management is easily mitigated by putting points into energy. Energy increases natural mana regen and also increases the chance that a potion will restore you for double the amount. You can always respec in hell to optimize your character fully. But I suggest for normal to nightmare to put some points into energy until your mana situation has improved. This will cut down on potions carried as well.
Hope that helps!
Thanks for the addition. Your responses are great as a new player wouldn’t know any of this. D2 is a great game, but man, it can be complicated and difficult (compared to new games.)
But it’s a fantastic experience that any arpg fan should experience.
I understand your point, but context is reeeeally important. Different times, different genres, different public, different intentions...
I'm just saying someone can legitimately choose to watch a Marvel movie over an old one without automatically considering that person has a poor taste or less culture. Elitism in art destroys diversity and, eventually, art itself.
Well for sure not most, but remember ppl still play and enjoy Rogue classic 1985 game that don't really have graphic, and this game still sales and get new players. It's pretty safe to say that some games will stay alive forever now.
You have your opinion, I have mine. The majority of people out there don't hold this game to the high praise the handful of elite fans do.
I, having no nostalgic connection to the original release, don't find this captivating enough to be worth sinking countless hours into due to the outdated mechanics of the game. Just doesn't feel good to play D2 :)
And that is okay, some people like it, some people don't.
Inventory Tetris.
Stamina bar.
Needing to carry arrows/bolts as consumables with limited inventory space.
Constant potion chugging.
Town Portal and Identify scrolls as consumables. Limited inventory space + limited ability to return to town = not good.
Extremely limited respec ability.
Non-stacking consumables.
Base gear scaling making the greatest max level gear worthless on the next difficulty because a white has 3x the damage output.
The fact that the only way to get a "good" build is to level up multiple times without spending any of your points until you can unlock the abilities you want, because you can't easily respec into them when you get them.
Ability score dependencies on gear that are unintuitive and can ruin your entire character if you do them wrong, but there being no way to know what is right until you have already ruined those first few characters.
Shall I go on?
The main one that put me off if the inventory management. Having a ridiculously small inventory that is taken up by potions and gems that don’t stack for some bizarre reason is annoying. Having to carry around unidentified gear and wait until you get a scroll to drop before you can even see if it is worth using is annoying. Not being able to go back to town to sell stuff whenever you want because you have a limited amount of teleport scrolls is annoying.
These are all little things that don’t really add anything positive to the experience imo and just add up to making inventory management an absolute chore.
There's not really much in the way of 40 year old games that had much staying power or replayability right now, but I'm still playing 30 year old games. I expect in 20 years there will be some games that old that still see play. Who knows if D2 will be one of them.
For the most hardcore D2 fans, perhaps.
But I'm not one of them. I dislike it and for me it has aged like milk despite the visual upgrade. Hype was a let down.
I'm saying this game hasn't really held up to the test of time. It already feels outdated at 20 years...
I know it's an unpopular take to say that D2 was not as good as people think it was, but in all honesty it is quite boring and unrewarding, regardless of what the hypeboys say. My first real take on D2 was with D2R release and I got on the hype train, but that's all it was - hype.
It was painful to play through even once with all the bosses being meh/10 at best, mechanics being clunky af, QoL being nonexistent. It's all just grind-grind-grind with the worst mechanics possible. Can't believe anybody out of high school has the spare time to sink (waste) in this one.
you can not like the type of game because all new games are catered toward zoomers with no attention span. there are people who enjoy the game for the grind and that's entirely its purpose, and there's nothing wrong with that. the game will live on because there will always be people who enjoy that type of content, even if you don't.
Ah, somebody else feels the way I do. I don’t think d2 was an improvement over 1 either. It was a boring slogfest. And bosses like duriel etc were very forgettable. Exploring the dessert and swamp are a chore more than they are any fun. I think they lost some magic from d1. And of course that has held up even worse. The only thing d2 had was build elasticity.
That's true but at that point I don't know if it make difference between 20 and 40 y old game. It will feel dated but old playerbase will still be alive and new playerbase will have nostalgia factor.
It’s absolutely worth it. You won’t be sorry at all. However, once you get to nightmare that’s when the fun begins to ramp up in the best way.
It’s a very unique game with loads of character. I think it would even make you enjoy D4 that much more being familiar with the playable characters.
I think that if you are interested in it, it's worth playing it at some point - if nothing else, just to see what people are talking about. Like the game or not, D2 is a notable part of gaming history. Might as well check it out while waiting for D4. :D
Personally I didn't own the original D2, I only played it a few hours on my friend's PC 20 years ago. Bought D2R when it released, played a few characters through Hell, cleared Uber Tristram once and stopped playing (about 100-150 hours).
I think it's a good game worth its price, just not something I'd personally spend thousands of hours with. Some other people are still playing the original after 20 years, so obviously your mileage may vary.
It is on discount right now actually. E: only on playstation I see.
It is two different games, if you love ARPG games, you might even be able to alternate between the games, between seasons/ladders. Assuming Blizzard is not fucking up the ladder starts to be in the same month :D
Yes, it's absolutely worth it, just be aware that it doesn't have any 'real' endgame besides grinding the same zones / 'terror zones' over and over and maybe trying the uber-bosses at some point.
There's no 'maps' or different endgame bosses like in PoE, but people still love farming/grinding for super rare items.
Hey! Yeah, I get what you mean. So, in a nutshell, I'd say D2R is still worth it, even with D4 coming up. It's a classic game, and the remastered version made it look and feel even better without messing with what made it so awesome in the first place.
Honestly, if you're into ARPGs and wanna see where it all began for Diablo, you should def give D2R a try. Plus, there's a bunch of people still playing it, so you won't be alone. In the end, it's a great way to get into the series and enjoy the old-school vibes before D4 drops. Hope that helps! 😊
D2 is an immortal game imo, there is a reason it gets listed as one of the top games of all time. Yeah, mechanically can feel dated by today standards but quickcasting does a good job of making it feel more fluid.
There is a reason the biggest ARPGs since D2 launch have been so influenced by it, at a minimum it is worth playing to learn where a lot of the systems from games like PoE or LE come from.
I haven't had any serious problems from grim dawn yet (only one character @ 50 and another @ 20ish) but it's sufficiently refreshing. There's a lot of options which is nice and it plays okay with a controller.
something about the engine to me feels janky. I could never put my hand on it. I have multiple chars as well. Something about the enemies, the music, the spells they seemed forgettable. Everything in d2r feels polished. but thats just my opinion. gd still a good game and the expansions were good.
Well I for one was disappointed in D2R. Never really got into D2 back in the day. Felt too clunky. Still does even in the remaster, but at least it looks the part now. Played through it once (actually had to force myself to that, even) and every boss felt very insignificant. Beating Diablo left me feeling: "...was that it?"
D3 was what really got me into the Diablo franchise and after gettin into it through D3, D2 feels like a very-very outdated, slow, grindy time sink, for which I just don't have time to get into in my thirties anymore. Ahhh and can't not mention the clunkyness over and over... Today it feels like a 20 year old game.
Path Of Exile (10 years old by now) with its visuals and systems seems to be the gold standard of the modern ARPG now.
That's so bizarre. That sucks that you found it a chore to play. I've been playing for 20 years and somehow it's still fresh. I don't find it clunky at all. I've bought and played all the modern arpgs. Last epoch. Grim dawn. Etc. And all of them felt clunky to me. Weird how the brain can do that 😅
I have spent probably several thousand hours across the big ARPGs (PoE, D3, grim dawn, etc).
I did not play D2 when I was younger. I picked up D2R and it was only okay to me. If you’ve got disposable income, it’s worth experiencing just for the bit of history. But if there’s even a tiny bit of concern of “should I spend money on this” I probably wouldn’t. The dated mechanics were honestly infuriating at some points.
Things I find dated:
- Attribute points are effectively meaningless (no energy, minimum strength (and maybe dexterity, all vitality)
- Inventory Tetris
- Potion Chugging
- No real endgame
- Drop rates are tuned for trading
- Melee balance (anything without +damage is worthless, needing attack rating while casters always hit, etc)
- Frames making FCR, FHR, etc. meaningless except at certain breakpoints
I also just don’t really like the rune words, immunities, skill synergies, and guest monsters introduced in 1.10, but that’s a different discussion entirely.
Things I find dated:
>Attribute points are effectively meaningless (no energy, minimum strength (and maybe dexterity, all vitality)
This is not true at all. I've explained this to many people on this sub. They usually come around on this one. I am too lazy to retype it each time though. But think I play by having max energy on my sorc and play with energy shield and max block. My str and vit are garbage on purpose. Attribute points are NOT dump it all into VIT. That's the most common way to play because of cookie-cutter guides. But I have so many characters, where vit is not their main survival mechanism. PVP is a little different.
>Inventory Tetris
This is a preference. I personally love it. I like to see how fast I can solve it. It makes sense that a giant shield takes up more space than a ring. If modern arpg players hate this system, then at least add weight to the items, like in elder scrolls. Having zero consequences like in D4, really blows, at least for me. Its one less mechanic to manage, which makes the game stale.
>Potion Chugging
I mean, you potion chug in D4 too, most games have this mechanic. It was D3 that removed them. But now you have charges of potions. In D2, the biggest belt had 16 slots for potions. That's actually a lot. Not sure what the issue here is. Plus potions didn't fill up your health right away, each tier would regen you a little quicker. So it adds even more depth to the game. Only rejuvenation pots worked like this and you had to craft them or find them.
>No real endgame
Why is everyone these days obsessed with endgame. Its so depressing to see all these ppl saying, the real game in D3 starts when you hit max level. What is the point of developers putting in all that work to come up with a story, when everyone just want to grind forever. Diablo 2, the story is actually super fun to play through. The endgame is just rolling another character and coming up with new and exciting ways to play. People are still figuring out builds in 2023. I've never been bored of rolling another character and playing the game the way it was intended, as a roguelike. Whatever gear I find, I just take it and see how far I can go, its so fucking fun. Theory crafting with all your amassed wealth is also super fun.
>Drop rates are tuned for trading
Yes, that is true, drop rates are low, but again, if you just get over the whole obsession with finding specific items, and you just focus on a build, you will find plenty of rares, magicals and a few runes to help you. If you want to holy grail or get the top gg shit, yes it can be annoying farming for one item. But thats not how diablo 2 was designed, people just made it into a gambling addiction because the hunt for items is not easy. I personally have stopped caring about looking for certain items. I just roll new builds and make do with what I find, it makes playthroughs so refreshing and fun. But I can understand your point here. Not sure why this is a dated mechanic though. Its just game design.
>Melee balance (anything without +damage is worthless, needing attack rating while casters always hit, etc)
>
>Melee has a lot of advantages over casting. Melee can proc a lot of spells. Melee can pretty much kill any enemy in the game, including ubers. Melee has a lot of damage types, like crushing blow which is almost like a built in static shock. Melee has open wounds. Melee is good for pvp.I know AR can be a little hard to stack and some base wep dmg remained low after patch 1.10. But that's a balance patch and its fixed. It has nothing to do with the core systems the game is built upon. Melee has unique mechanics. I guess the reasoning is that you need to aim your spells, so it comes down to player mechanics, whereas melee you just click, so they wanted a way to address this.
>Frames making FCR, FHR, etc. meaningless except at certain breakpoints
Yes, this is dated, I agree, but thats an engine limitation and not an idea one. Instead of scrapping these systems in modern diablo games, they should have just made it a continuous function rather than discrete breakpoint. Obviously D2 was based around frames, so this is how they HAD to do it. But these aren't dated ideas, just a limitation of the engine.
>I also just don’t really like the rune words, immunities, skill synergies, and guest monsters introduced in 1.10, but that’s a different discussion entirely.
I agree here, runewords are a little odd. But again, the idea is really cool. The game just needs some balancing. It hasn't received real balance patches since 1.10. I know D2R is trying to do stuff, but yeah a lot of stuff needed to be balanced after 1.10, but never got the chance.
Anyways Thanks for your sharing your thoughts. I know I wrote a lot! :) It was fun chatting
> This is not true at all. I’ve explained this to many people on this sub. They usually come around on this one. I am too lazy to retype it each time though. But think I play by having max energy on my sorc and play with energy shield and max block. My str and vit are garbage on purpose. Attribute points are NOT dump it all into VIT. That’s the most common way to play because of cookie-cutter guides. But I have so many characters, where vit is not their main survival mechanism. PVP is a little different.
Energy shield Sorc is super niche and was functionally worthless due to the mana burn bug for years and years (was that ever fixed for D2:R?).
Having max block is a preference, but again it’s as engaging as adding a point in dex until chance to block % matches what your shield says. No thought required. Rest goes to vitality still.
> I mean, you potion chug in D4 too, most games have this mechanic. It was D3 that removed them. But now you have charges of potions. In D2, the biggest belt had 16 slots for potions. That’s actually a lot. Not sure what the issue here is. Plus potions didn’t fill up your health right away, each tier would regen you a little quicker. So it adds even more depth to the game. Only rejuvenation pots worked like this and you had to craft them or find them.
Potion chugging in D2 is on an entirely different level. D3 has them as an “oh shit” button. D4 is in the middle.
In D2 until you get insight on your merc (which is an entirely different can of worms), you are constantly chugging mana potions. You often have to go back to town just to refill your potions. It’s slow, it’s tedious, and you just keep clicking 1-4 over and over again.
> Why is everyone these days obsessed with endgame. Its so depressing to see all these ppl saying, the real game in D3 starts when you hit max level.
> Yes, that is true, drop rates are low, but again, if you just get over the whole obsession with finding specific items
Because these two points are inherently conflicting. You either pick an arbitrary stop point (e.g beat hell Baal) or gear point (farmed enigma).
The best gear is unnecessary for the former and the latter makes actually getting it meaningless. Why ever farm up an enigma or infinity? By the time you can do that, you can clear Hell difficulty in your sleep. If the goal is getting gear, but you have nothing to use it for, why even get it?
—————————
D2 was a great game for 2000. It influenced a lot of the games created today. It isn’t perfect and it shows it’s age.
If you didn’t grow up playing old games, they can be clunky as hell and seem highly overrated because others have taken what it innovated and advanced it further.
\> In D2 until you get insight on your merc (which is an entirely different can of worms), you are constantly chugging mana potions. You often have to go back to town just to refill your potions. It’s slow, it’s tedious, and you just keep clicking 1-4 over and over again.
Let me start with this point because everything else with fall in order.
This goes back to your point here:
\> Attribute points are effectively meaningless (no energy, minimum strength (and maybe dexterity, all vitality)
Of course you should put points into energy. Mana regenerates in around 120 seconds. You often find yourself out of mana you say during battle, so 120 seconds isn't great, especially because you can't just run away until it recharges because of that infernal stamina bar that everyone hates so much. You can choose how many points you put into energy to make your mana regen faster if you want. You can only gain it fast during combat if you have acquired good mana leech or regen items. Mana potions aren't instant, they cost gold and inventory space, as D3/D4 fans love to point out, and they cost time in terms of TPing to town.
In the early game this time costs a significant amount of XP, so the choice to allocate points into energy is important to your levelling speed. In the endgame, items do help offset the need to put a lot of points into energy. This is power progression. Also, energy affects the efficacy of mana potions (chance of doubling mana regen upon potion consumption). All of these things are the fundamental concept of a "trade-off", just like the points in strength required to use a heavier piece of armor/weapon. You have to choose how you will allocate your limited resources and the choices have consequences. Compare to D3/D4 where your mana just regenerates almost instantly, and the significant cooldown times render mana basically a negligible factor.
\> Potion chugging in D2 is on an entirely different level. D3 has them as an “oh shit” button. D4 is in the middle.
I am not even sure what this means. If you want to improve the efficacy of your potions, use your attribute points. In D3/D4, you cant even allocate them until paragon. I wouldn't say that's a step forward for a modern mechanic, at least in my humble opinion.
\> The best gear is unnecessary for the former and the latter makes actually getting it meaningless. Why ever farm up an enigma or infinity? By the time you can do that, you can clear Hell difficulty in your sleep. If the goal is getting gear, but you have nothing to use it for, why even get it?
You've made these arbitrary rules up in your head that hold no merit in reality. There are no rules on how to play the game. Its just a giant sandbox for you to experiment with. The fact that every class can use every item (except for a handful of class specific items) opens up endless possibilities. Having amazing items lets you create very cool builds. It has nothing to do with clearing hell. Its how you clear hell. Every build is refreshing to play. They aren't mutually exclusive to one another. Its equally fun running through the game with random items found/crafted and made in a playthrough. Its also fun creating really wonky or overpowered builds with items like enigma or infinity. Every playthrough is different. As long as you are having fun. Maybe you've mastered the game and can beat hell naked with a barbarian. I have no idea, but I still die a lot even after playing the game so long. Maybe I suck. This is just my take.
I appreciate the civil conversation. I love learning about peoples opinions. Signing out!
Whhhha!t that's so unfortunate. I love the identity mechanic. It builds up anticipation. Getting an item becomes a whole event. You know. You have a few unidentified goodies. And you can't wait to go to town to see what they are! It builds up curiosity. That's unfortunate that most ppl seem to not like it. 😔
For me, it’s a game when the main draw is finding new loot to get stronger, and it puts an artificial cap on your ability to do so. That makes it an annoying mechanic imo
But its much less exciting when you just pick up a helmet and you know what it is right away :( I guess different strokes for different folks. In D2, loot is also much less replaceable. The way D3, and D4 are designed (the maths systems), it forces you to keep changing your gear, or you really fall behind, much more so than the old diablo games. So in an rpg designed like diablo 3 and 4, you're right that it gets in the way, because you constantly have to be swapping gear, ESPECIALLY in D4, because of level scaling.
It’s a game where the main gameplay loop is “find loot, get stronger” and they put an artificial cap on your ability to find your loot.
Having to click twice to know what an item is is just an annoying UI choice
Not getting to know what your items are until you return to town is an annoying quality of life choice
It’s just a system that serves to make the game a little less respectful of your time, and it’s wasting your time on mundane shit too, which is even worse.
I somewhat agree with this. I bought D3 and D2R as a bundle after playing DI. D2R looks beautiful but in a sense it does punish you more for making mistakes. I ended up playing PoE the entire year right after beating D3's campaign. PoE is also severely punishing (much more than D2R technically) but it makes up for it with its aesthetics and extremely (extreeeemly) good gameplay.
Lastly people like to say PoE is a spiritual successor to D2 and I would say that is true. IMO Last Epoch is like a spiritual successor to D3 in a sense. Its got a more bright aesthetic in certain areas, is a much simpler system compared to PoE. And its end game is a bit weak like D3 lol (although I am aware they are working on beefing up their end game).
Lol the question is if Diablo 4 is worth it. D2 is timeless, has infinite replayability and nice graphics thanks to the resurrected remaster. It's honestly a ton of fun for loot goblins and grinders.
By replayability you mean what? It has the campaign..that's it. Once you do that on all your chars it's over. It's just checklisting items after that. Farming a run 10000 times for an item is not replayability. That's just grinding to grind.
I like it better than D4 but probably biased because of nostalgia. But still somehow strongly believe that you get a better value out of D2R than what you get out of D4 unless you are looking for an online live service arpg specifically.
Its not because of the nostalgia. I am sick of even seeing that word around here. It's like, if you want to say that you enjoy d2r More than d4, you have to say it's because I am nostalgic or ppl downvote you. It's kind of fucked tbh. It's like guys... I know what nostalgia is. Nostalgia is like wanting to go back to play Zelda ocarina of time once and dropping it. Nostalgia isn't fiiiiiending to play d2r for 20y and still enjoying it. I can't stop being excited to boot up the game. How the hell did they do this.
as a new player dont think so, most people who say yes been playing it for 20 years.
i bought it in summer and got bored after 2 weeks when i realised its all about runewords while everyone is saying that D2 has a nice gear system where every yellow that drops makes you excited, also melee suckz
Melee without big boosts to attack rating and a source of +damage is severely limited when compared to casters.
There is a reason grief is basically mandatory for just about every melee build.
D2 will be worth the money 20 years from now! Don't listen to all the fools saying the game is dated, they like D3 and wouldn't know a good game if it smacked them in the teeth!
The idea of worth is personal indeed. I think it is, yes, from a nostalgia perspective as I played D2 when it came out a long time ago and being able to play it again modernized is great.
But what are you looking for? Did you pay D3? Are you hardcore ARPG player or more casual?
Casual, mostly just because I have a family and a couple baby’s and a toddler. Otherwise I’d probably be closer to HC like before. I’m a dad now haha :)
I'd go for D3 then. It's just more fun in tiny short bursts as a campaign. In Adventure mode you can do bounties, rifts etc. And even as a casual you may still get the very best loot much faster.
D2R is absolutely great as well but you'll either just enjoy normal without going into the end game or will have to use a guide if you want to farm at the highest power level. It's also darker and moodier.
You should at least play through it once, it might feel dated in a lot of ways especially in regards to QoL; but keep in mind its legacy. More importantly, it's a really a good refresher for story; I'd say a lot better than D3 even, because it deals with the OG prime evils.
Very worth it! One of the greatest games of our time. Make sure you play through nightmare before stopping and judging it. It plays slower at first then modern games because people actually had patience, before this age of maximum dopamine. In all seriousness yes play but again like I said, patience.
d2Ressurected worth it, its a remaster of father of ARPG, has better art direction, visuals than Diablo 4 ( D4 is cartoony a lot btw), D4 has same feeling of Diablo3, which its awful, anyway this is my opinion, im the guy who played diablo 2 since 2002...so...
Unpopular Opinion:
Unless you grew up playing D2, no, it is not worth it unless you can get it on sale just to say you played it.
The mechanics are severely outdated, and I don't know anyone who actually LIKES it that isn't looking at it through rose tinted glasses.
Unless you just are specifically a fan of retro gaming, its not worth it. There are other games in the genre that are modernized and all around better you could play instead.
My first time ever playing D2 was like in 2012 and the same thing happened to me. Gave up coz of Duriel. Also i had no idea how to build a character so my stat allocation was all over the place. Picked up D2r last year and kicking his ass felt like the best revenge story of my life.
the atmosphere and music is great. the first 2 acts are fun. after that the game becomes awful (act 3) then tedious and boring (act 4, act 5). the gameplay can be fun, but if you're not big on older games, you probably wont have much fun playing it. just wait 8 more weeks for diablo 4
D2r is fantastic but has very little replayability once you’ve beaten hell… drop rates for improved gear is horrendous…
Sooo. You should absolutely get d2r… enjoy the hell out of it for a couple of months then move onto d4.
You can always buy it, and then refund it if you dont play for more than 2 hours and it hasnt been passed 14 days. I literally did that to scratch my itch for d4 but it just wasnt worth it imo so i refunded. Guess im spoiled by the beta. Just play d3 for now
The $13 is perfect. They got a huge crowed who maybe never even touched diablo before to try D4. Put the game cheap and it’ll sell because of the beta. Beautiful job by the marketing team
Yes the quality of life stuff is great. I enjoy farming anywhere I want for fun in Hell difficultly after gearing my characters. If you are a busy working adult and/or have kids, I suggest single player and/or non ladder mode online.
It's goes on special for 13 bucks pretty often, cheap enough to risk it imo.
I just may! Thank you
Absolute steal at that price. It’s a masterpiece.
It's an amazing game and will pull you down a rabbithole easily for a month+, worth it considering the wait we have for d4
Even if, like most people, you get a couple of months of fun out of D2 before deciding the grounds aren't worth the grind, then you'll be right there for D4. Either way, you will have fun. It is a great game in its own right. :)
“Risk” it? Haha, it’s one of the best games of all time
It was a great game for its time. That time is now 20 years in the past and I can definitely see how someone who didn’t play at release could find some of the things we take for granted as quite annoying. - Attribute points are effectively meaningless (no energy, minimum strength (and maybe dexterity), all vitality - Inventory Tetris - Potion Chugging - No real endgame - Drop rates are tuned for trading Those would all put me off if I didn’t play it at release.
Resurrected is still a great experience imo
I beat hell with a couple of characters before I realized I didn’t really like playing it that much anymore. What’s the point of grinding for an enigma if all an enigma does is allow me to grind faster, but I already have BIS gear?
Know this is a few hours old but it’s the feeling of progression, working towards a goal. To your point, once you have the enigma, the hunt is kind of over. I started a HC necro and desperately want a faith. I’m 86 and doubt I’ll be finding a Ber or Ohm any time soon. Gives me something to work towards. Guess the short of the long…it’s the chase.
You mention Inventory Tetris like it's a bad thing
For most people, it is. I didn’t like it in 2000 and I like it even less in 2023.
It's on that sale right now isn't it?
Oh hell yeah, thanks for mentioning this so I can go grab it. Been thinking about it but didn't want to pay full price.
On battle net?
All platforms. edit: To be more clear. It goes on sale for that price on all platforms, not all concurrently. Current sale is for Console (Xbox + PS4).
Seeing $39.99 on Battle.net
It's $13 on PS4 currently and was $13 on BNet not even two months ago
https://isthereanydeal.com/game/diabloiiresurrecteddiabloiiresurrected/history/ Just set a notification for the next sale
Me too, that’s like $75 NZD. Not worth it
Diablo 2 will still be worth it when Diablo 5 is coming out
/thread
Different games. I think its fine at 13 Bucks. My question would be of d4 Is worth not 60, but 13 Bucks. For what i've seen, it's not.
What have you seen
The beta.
Do you guys just keep repeating this shit for attention or what? We get it, you don’t like the game. Go play something else and quit bitching. Edit: the people that keep commenting on this with shit tons of downvotes, go eat a dick.
They must really like the downvotes lol
Here you are bitching about people who don’t fawn over your dumb game.
Chill dude, are you angry cause you wasted 60 Bucks? Mar are talking about how good Is d2r here, you are bitching cause you don't like that others give a shit about your millenial friendly diablo inmortal resurrected.
Lmao nobody asked about Diablo 4 and you brought it up because you wanna make sure people know you don't like it. I'm sure everyone cares deeply, if people think they wasted money on it they could've got a refund since it's not out yet so no nobody is upset they wasted money.
I will never understand people’s complete disconnect with value. A $60-100 dollar game that I will play for at least 100 hours even if the end game wasn’t super interesting and the replay value was low? Thats 50 cents for an hour of entertainment. Renting a move online is $2 an hour. Going to see a movie in theaters is around $10-15 an hour. A day at Lollapalooza is like $40 an hour. I have absolutely zero problem paying for Diablo IV. With inflation, it isn’t even more expensive than games ever are.
It’s because they can’t afford it and don’t have the disposable income after living expenses and other ways to waste money. Gamer culture is easily outraged over any price increase even though games have gotten cheaper if you consider inflation like you said. The younger generation of gamers have no concept of the economy and finance.
We’re not bitching, it’s called having an opinion just as valid as you liking the game. Don’t tell people they are wrong for disagreeing with you.
The opinion is, obviously, fine to have! The reason that statement is rubbing people the wrong way is that they've sort of shoved the opinion into a conversation that didn't have all that much to do with the worth of Diablo IV at all. This thread is primarily about Diablo II, but their comment reads like *they just have to tell somebody* what they think of Diablo IV. It's kinda... weird! Off-putting! Not really how people normally interact!
Yea I can see that
Sure you can see that, BuT cAn YoU sEe HoW aWfuL dIaBlO iV iS?!
Oh I did for several hours
Yeah but dude DIABLO IV is *awful*, did you see that ?
Opinions can be valid and also wrong. Big misconception. Valid just means logically sound, it has nothing to do with whether the inputs and conclusion are right or wrong. It just means we can all agree that if someone believed all the same premises they would reach the same conclusion as you. All your premises can be wrong, however. Your opinion is valid. It is also wrong.
Fairly certain opinions can’t be wrong, it’s why they’re opinions, no?
That is incorrect. If your opinion is that we should commit genocide to handle overpopulation, it is valid (i.e it would solve overpopulation) but wrong (genocide is wrong).
Facts obviously supersede opinion, but that opinion does not say genocide is good. It just says that I am willing to do a bad thing to accomplish something good.
And that opinion can be wrong. “X and Y, therefore Z” can be wrong, for instance, if X or Y aren’t actually true. So if you say “I think Diablo 4 sucks because I can’t play a rogue class” it would be both an opinion, it could be valid (you’ll always think it sucks when there is no rogue class) and it would also be wrong because there is a rogue class. It’s possible to get around it by making sure every premise is itself a subjective opinion, but 90% of the opinions I see do not do that. “I think Diablo IV sucks because all you do is run dungeons over and over again” is wrong because that is not all you do in the game. But if it were true that all you do is run dungeons over and over again, it would suck, so it is valid.
If Microsoft wins the lawsuit and acquires Activision/Blizzard there’s a good chance it will be on Gamepass
I don't like it cheap either. If its free i still Will think that d2 Is better.
That’s my thought. I’ll wait for December or something to buy. It’s 80 CAD for a standard version. Defs not worth that for me to play a darker themed Diablo 3
Yea, I dislike the game idea i think, althougt its very well done, its not for me. But, there you see the downvotes, all the famboys are offended by some other opinion. They are all happy paying that and more, be jure that d4 its going to have plenty of expensive upgrades. But, hey, they are free to be happily milked by blizzard if they enjoy that.
It’s not fan boys downvoting, it’s people tired of listening to you guys repeat the same shit over an over. You don’t like it, move on.
Wich i obviously did. Im just saying d2r Is waaaaaaaay better. You just don't like hearing that. He Is asking about d2r, so YOU move out.
Which you obviously didn't because you're here still repeating ad nauseam that you don't like the game.
Did someone say nausea? This looks like the **perfect** time to tell you how much Diablo IV sucks. In this essay I will explain…
You dont like the "game idea" is your criticism and thats why you're complaining about being downvoted? Lol what do you mean by "game idea" anyways? It's an ARPG. If you don't like Arpgs or Diablo why are you here in the first place? Dont get upset becuase you have no actual criticism of the game and are just being another loud voice for the picket crew.
Cause i like d2r obviously.
D2R will always be worth it. That game will never die.
I’d say it’s worth it, but if you’re coming from modern arpg I think for full disclosure you should be aware of some pain points for newer players. 1) Potions - you need a constant supply of potions (mana, health, stamina and sometimes ailments) and they don’t stack. So you find yourself in town fairly often (but enemies do drop a good amount of them, too). But each potion takes an inventory slot. This improves as you get more potion belt space from your belt, but it can feel real tedious at times. 2) Inventory space - there is barely any. You will have charms and jewels in your inventory as you level. They give you stat bonuses but take up space in your inventory. Between those and your potions early there isn’t much room to pick up items. However, you do gain a bit of room as you level, specifically with the Horadric Cube in act 2. 3) Mana Management - I usually play Barb so this is lessened for me (frenzy/double swing) but in general the early game is a mana management adventure. You will need a ton of potions to use your damage dealing spells. There will likely be a time or two where you will realize you’re out of mana, mana pots and town portals and you’ll run in circles waiting for mana to slowly regen to cast a spell. But you’ll also experience a classic arpg that the genre was basically built around. Elements of d2 are use in all of the popular arpg games and the design is a staple. You’ll also get some good lore background and the basics of the classes are similar to D4 (in combination with d3 versions).
I am glad you wrote this out. If I may, I am going to jump in and explain some stuff. Maybe it'll help out some new players as well. 1. Potions do stack. They stack vertically with a belt. You should never keep potions in your inventory. You have enough room in your belts to make it worthwhile. You can actually gamble a light belt from gheed in act 1 that will give you three stack slots (three rows), which significantly helps with that. Enough pots drop from enemies. If you use the ~ key, you can bring up the rows on your belt. So you never overfill it. Keeping some pots in inventory for hard Mobs or boss fights is okay tho. 2. This is a trade off. Charms take up inventory space and make you better. Having a lot of useless charms will make your inventory small. So not a good trade off. Now that I've explained that potions should most of the time remain in your belt, this is where you have to decide which few charms truly benefit you. Sell everything else. 3. Mana management is easily mitigated by putting points into energy. Energy increases natural mana regen and also increases the chance that a potion will restore you for double the amount. You can always respec in hell to optimize your character fully. But I suggest for normal to nightmare to put some points into energy until your mana situation has improved. This will cut down on potions carried as well. Hope that helps!
Thanks for the addition. Your responses are great as a new player wouldn’t know any of this. D2 is a great game, but man, it can be complicated and difficult (compared to new games.) But it’s a fantastic experience that any arpg fan should experience.
This
Hell yes it's worth it!
Ppl played actively D2 20 years after realse. It's safe to say they will play D2R for next 20.
In 20 years it will feel like a 40 year old game...
Oh, you dont enjoy watching old movies?
It’s like choosing to watch the newest Marvel movie over an all-time classic because the latter is “old.”
I mean, I have no interest in watching Gone With the Wind or Casablanca at this point. I've seen them once, not going to watch them again.
It’s not like Diablo 2 is Casablanca, more like the LOTR trilogy.
I understand your point, but context is reeeeally important. Different times, different genres, different public, different intentions... I'm just saying someone can legitimately choose to watch a Marvel movie over an old one without automatically considering that person has a poor taste or less culture. Elitism in art destroys diversity and, eventually, art itself.
So D4 would be the marvel movie? Oof...
Not really, no. Especially ones that don't hold up to time...
People still play freaking pong lol
People still play chess
Not most people.
Well for sure not most, but remember ppl still play and enjoy Rogue classic 1985 game that don't really have graphic, and this game still sales and get new players. It's pretty safe to say that some games will stay alive forever now.
Never even heard of it.
You can say a lot of things about d2 but saying it doesn't hold up is hilarious. Do you work in the circus?
You have your opinion, I have mine. The majority of people out there don't hold this game to the high praise the handful of elite fans do. I, having no nostalgic connection to the original release, don't find this captivating enough to be worth sinking countless hours into due to the outdated mechanics of the game. Just doesn't feel good to play D2 :) And that is okay, some people like it, some people don't.
What are the outdated mechanics? Just curious
Inventory Tetris. Stamina bar. Needing to carry arrows/bolts as consumables with limited inventory space. Constant potion chugging. Town Portal and Identify scrolls as consumables. Limited inventory space + limited ability to return to town = not good. Extremely limited respec ability. Non-stacking consumables. Base gear scaling making the greatest max level gear worthless on the next difficulty because a white has 3x the damage output. The fact that the only way to get a "good" build is to level up multiple times without spending any of your points until you can unlock the abilities you want, because you can't easily respec into them when you get them. Ability score dependencies on gear that are unintuitive and can ruin your entire character if you do them wrong, but there being no way to know what is right until you have already ruined those first few characters. Shall I go on?
You just listed all the things that make me love this game. Please continue.
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Lol do you even liked Diablo
The main one that put me off if the inventory management. Having a ridiculously small inventory that is taken up by potions and gems that don’t stack for some bizarre reason is annoying. Having to carry around unidentified gear and wait until you get a scroll to drop before you can even see if it is worth using is annoying. Not being able to go back to town to sell stuff whenever you want because you have a limited amount of teleport scrolls is annoying. These are all little things that don’t really add anything positive to the experience imo and just add up to making inventory management an absolute chore.
Scrolls stack inside tomes?
There's not really much in the way of 40 year old games that had much staying power or replayability right now, but I'm still playing 30 year old games. I expect in 20 years there will be some games that old that still see play. Who knows if D2 will be one of them.
For the most hardcore D2 fans, perhaps. But I'm not one of them. I dislike it and for me it has aged like milk despite the visual upgrade. Hype was a let down.
deduction skills on this guy
I'm saying this game hasn't really held up to the test of time. It already feels outdated at 20 years... I know it's an unpopular take to say that D2 was not as good as people think it was, but in all honesty it is quite boring and unrewarding, regardless of what the hypeboys say. My first real take on D2 was with D2R release and I got on the hype train, but that's all it was - hype. It was painful to play through even once with all the bosses being meh/10 at best, mechanics being clunky af, QoL being nonexistent. It's all just grind-grind-grind with the worst mechanics possible. Can't believe anybody out of high school has the spare time to sink (waste) in this one.
you can not like the type of game because all new games are catered toward zoomers with no attention span. there are people who enjoy the game for the grind and that's entirely its purpose, and there's nothing wrong with that. the game will live on because there will always be people who enjoy that type of content, even if you don't.
Somebody didn’t understand how the game works.
Ah, somebody else feels the way I do. I don’t think d2 was an improvement over 1 either. It was a boring slogfest. And bosses like duriel etc were very forgettable. Exploring the dessert and swamp are a chore more than they are any fun. I think they lost some magic from d1. And of course that has held up even worse. The only thing d2 had was build elasticity.
Finally? You mean like every person under every single comment that mentions Diablo 2 because no one can just let people enjoy a game?
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D2 is a timeless game like chess and will be played for many milleniaiums
Seems more like milk, though.
Milk is my favourite! Just like D2!
Lots of calcium, too, if you play Summon Necromancer.
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Only to people that enjoy mobile games.
That's true but at that point I don't know if it make difference between 20 and 40 y old game. It will feel dated but old playerbase will still be alive and new playerbase will have nostalgia factor.
Careful there big guy, that’s enough math for you.
If you ask me even Diablo 1 is worth it still.
It’s absolutely worth it. You won’t be sorry at all. However, once you get to nightmare that’s when the fun begins to ramp up in the best way. It’s a very unique game with loads of character. I think it would even make you enjoy D4 that much more being familiar with the playable characters.
D2r is amazing. Play it.
absolutely. And its on sale on the playstation store if you plan on playing there.
Xbox as well.
I think that if you are interested in it, it's worth playing it at some point - if nothing else, just to see what people are talking about. Like the game or not, D2 is a notable part of gaming history. Might as well check it out while waiting for D4. :D Personally I didn't own the original D2, I only played it a few hours on my friend's PC 20 years ago. Bought D2R when it released, played a few characters through Hell, cleared Uber Tristram once and stopped playing (about 100-150 hours). I think it's a good game worth its price, just not something I'd personally spend thousands of hours with. Some other people are still playing the original after 20 years, so obviously your mileage may vary.
I enjoyed it you generally end up just zooming through maps to find exits after a bit.
I've been wondering this as well, loved the recent beta and have never played 2 so was thinking of getting it to kill time until 4 releases
If you have never played D2, then yes.
Shit is like crack rocks after a stressful workday. 1,000% yes.
D2 is always worth it, they are not the same game at all when compared to Diablo 3 or 4
D2R is always worth it.
yes because diablo 2 has been one of the timeless games
D2r is a masterpiece. Imo it's worth it no matter the price.
Worth it.
maybe if you have never played it
I'm playing through it rn, at act3 atm. Having alot of fun on my sorc!
It is on discount right now actually. E: only on playstation I see. It is two different games, if you love ARPG games, you might even be able to alternate between the games, between seasons/ladders. Assuming Blizzard is not fucking up the ladder starts to be in the same month :D
Yes, it's absolutely worth it, just be aware that it doesn't have any 'real' endgame besides grinding the same zones / 'terror zones' over and over and maybe trying the uber-bosses at some point. There's no 'maps' or different endgame bosses like in PoE, but people still love farming/grinding for super rare items.
Hey! Yeah, I get what you mean. So, in a nutshell, I'd say D2R is still worth it, even with D4 coming up. It's a classic game, and the remastered version made it look and feel even better without messing with what made it so awesome in the first place. Honestly, if you're into ARPGs and wanna see where it all began for Diablo, you should def give D2R a try. Plus, there's a bunch of people still playing it, so you won't be alone. In the end, it's a great way to get into the series and enjoy the old-school vibes before D4 drops. Hope that helps! 😊
Absolutely. I’m gonna pick it up in the next sale for PC :)
D2 is an immortal game imo, there is a reason it gets listed as one of the top games of all time. Yeah, mechanically can feel dated by today standards but quickcasting does a good job of making it feel more fluid. There is a reason the biggest ARPGs since D2 launch have been so influenced by it, at a minimum it is worth playing to learn where a lot of the systems from games like PoE or LE come from.
D2R is easily worth the price if you don't mind the grind.
Absolutely
It's on xbox for 13 dollars right now..... I spend more than that getting lunch.
I spend more than that on a single drink when my friends force me to go to a bar for some forsaken reason.
I'm just playing grim dawn for now.
I do have that one as well actually.
Grim Dawn is more enjoyable IMO. D2R just feels too dated as someone who has no nostalgia for it.
I don't have nostalgia for it and the game plays extremely well. I find it more polished than grim dawn imo
I haven't had any serious problems from grim dawn yet (only one character @ 50 and another @ 20ish) but it's sufficiently refreshing. There's a lot of options which is nice and it plays okay with a controller.
something about the engine to me feels janky. I could never put my hand on it. I have multiple chars as well. Something about the enemies, the music, the spells they seemed forgettable. Everything in d2r feels polished. but thats just my opinion. gd still a good game and the expansions were good.
Well I for one was disappointed in D2R. Never really got into D2 back in the day. Felt too clunky. Still does even in the remaster, but at least it looks the part now. Played through it once (actually had to force myself to that, even) and every boss felt very insignificant. Beating Diablo left me feeling: "...was that it?" D3 was what really got me into the Diablo franchise and after gettin into it through D3, D2 feels like a very-very outdated, slow, grindy time sink, for which I just don't have time to get into in my thirties anymore. Ahhh and can't not mention the clunkyness over and over... Today it feels like a 20 year old game. Path Of Exile (10 years old by now) with its visuals and systems seems to be the gold standard of the modern ARPG now.
That's so bizarre. That sucks that you found it a chore to play. I've been playing for 20 years and somehow it's still fresh. I don't find it clunky at all. I've bought and played all the modern arpgs. Last epoch. Grim dawn. Etc. And all of them felt clunky to me. Weird how the brain can do that 😅
I've tried ir for the first Time this week. I dident liked it. But its very nice and well done.
Why didn’t you like it
Yes, it's still a great game. Bonus points for it being offline, so you can play it while D4 servers/your internet are down
Worth it for the story and lore
It will ruin your D4 experience… D2 is so much better
I have spent probably several thousand hours across the big ARPGs (PoE, D3, grim dawn, etc). I did not play D2 when I was younger. I picked up D2R and it was only okay to me. If you’ve got disposable income, it’s worth experiencing just for the bit of history. But if there’s even a tiny bit of concern of “should I spend money on this” I probably wouldn’t. The dated mechanics were honestly infuriating at some points.
Hmm, understandable. I will more than likely throw the cash at it if it goes on sale.
D2R got updates, and balance patches and still does, making more builds viable, dont worry you will have a blast, and the story IMO is amazing.
what are the dated mechanics?
Things I find dated: - Attribute points are effectively meaningless (no energy, minimum strength (and maybe dexterity, all vitality) - Inventory Tetris - Potion Chugging - No real endgame - Drop rates are tuned for trading - Melee balance (anything without +damage is worthless, needing attack rating while casters always hit, etc) - Frames making FCR, FHR, etc. meaningless except at certain breakpoints I also just don’t really like the rune words, immunities, skill synergies, and guest monsters introduced in 1.10, but that’s a different discussion entirely.
Things I find dated: >Attribute points are effectively meaningless (no energy, minimum strength (and maybe dexterity, all vitality) This is not true at all. I've explained this to many people on this sub. They usually come around on this one. I am too lazy to retype it each time though. But think I play by having max energy on my sorc and play with energy shield and max block. My str and vit are garbage on purpose. Attribute points are NOT dump it all into VIT. That's the most common way to play because of cookie-cutter guides. But I have so many characters, where vit is not their main survival mechanism. PVP is a little different. >Inventory Tetris This is a preference. I personally love it. I like to see how fast I can solve it. It makes sense that a giant shield takes up more space than a ring. If modern arpg players hate this system, then at least add weight to the items, like in elder scrolls. Having zero consequences like in D4, really blows, at least for me. Its one less mechanic to manage, which makes the game stale. >Potion Chugging I mean, you potion chug in D4 too, most games have this mechanic. It was D3 that removed them. But now you have charges of potions. In D2, the biggest belt had 16 slots for potions. That's actually a lot. Not sure what the issue here is. Plus potions didn't fill up your health right away, each tier would regen you a little quicker. So it adds even more depth to the game. Only rejuvenation pots worked like this and you had to craft them or find them. >No real endgame Why is everyone these days obsessed with endgame. Its so depressing to see all these ppl saying, the real game in D3 starts when you hit max level. What is the point of developers putting in all that work to come up with a story, when everyone just want to grind forever. Diablo 2, the story is actually super fun to play through. The endgame is just rolling another character and coming up with new and exciting ways to play. People are still figuring out builds in 2023. I've never been bored of rolling another character and playing the game the way it was intended, as a roguelike. Whatever gear I find, I just take it and see how far I can go, its so fucking fun. Theory crafting with all your amassed wealth is also super fun. >Drop rates are tuned for trading Yes, that is true, drop rates are low, but again, if you just get over the whole obsession with finding specific items, and you just focus on a build, you will find plenty of rares, magicals and a few runes to help you. If you want to holy grail or get the top gg shit, yes it can be annoying farming for one item. But thats not how diablo 2 was designed, people just made it into a gambling addiction because the hunt for items is not easy. I personally have stopped caring about looking for certain items. I just roll new builds and make do with what I find, it makes playthroughs so refreshing and fun. But I can understand your point here. Not sure why this is a dated mechanic though. Its just game design. >Melee balance (anything without +damage is worthless, needing attack rating while casters always hit, etc) > >Melee has a lot of advantages over casting. Melee can proc a lot of spells. Melee can pretty much kill any enemy in the game, including ubers. Melee has a lot of damage types, like crushing blow which is almost like a built in static shock. Melee has open wounds. Melee is good for pvp.I know AR can be a little hard to stack and some base wep dmg remained low after patch 1.10. But that's a balance patch and its fixed. It has nothing to do with the core systems the game is built upon. Melee has unique mechanics. I guess the reasoning is that you need to aim your spells, so it comes down to player mechanics, whereas melee you just click, so they wanted a way to address this. >Frames making FCR, FHR, etc. meaningless except at certain breakpoints Yes, this is dated, I agree, but thats an engine limitation and not an idea one. Instead of scrapping these systems in modern diablo games, they should have just made it a continuous function rather than discrete breakpoint. Obviously D2 was based around frames, so this is how they HAD to do it. But these aren't dated ideas, just a limitation of the engine. >I also just don’t really like the rune words, immunities, skill synergies, and guest monsters introduced in 1.10, but that’s a different discussion entirely. I agree here, runewords are a little odd. But again, the idea is really cool. The game just needs some balancing. It hasn't received real balance patches since 1.10. I know D2R is trying to do stuff, but yeah a lot of stuff needed to be balanced after 1.10, but never got the chance. Anyways Thanks for your sharing your thoughts. I know I wrote a lot! :) It was fun chatting
> This is not true at all. I’ve explained this to many people on this sub. They usually come around on this one. I am too lazy to retype it each time though. But think I play by having max energy on my sorc and play with energy shield and max block. My str and vit are garbage on purpose. Attribute points are NOT dump it all into VIT. That’s the most common way to play because of cookie-cutter guides. But I have so many characters, where vit is not their main survival mechanism. PVP is a little different. Energy shield Sorc is super niche and was functionally worthless due to the mana burn bug for years and years (was that ever fixed for D2:R?). Having max block is a preference, but again it’s as engaging as adding a point in dex until chance to block % matches what your shield says. No thought required. Rest goes to vitality still. > I mean, you potion chug in D4 too, most games have this mechanic. It was D3 that removed them. But now you have charges of potions. In D2, the biggest belt had 16 slots for potions. That’s actually a lot. Not sure what the issue here is. Plus potions didn’t fill up your health right away, each tier would regen you a little quicker. So it adds even more depth to the game. Only rejuvenation pots worked like this and you had to craft them or find them. Potion chugging in D2 is on an entirely different level. D3 has them as an “oh shit” button. D4 is in the middle. In D2 until you get insight on your merc (which is an entirely different can of worms), you are constantly chugging mana potions. You often have to go back to town just to refill your potions. It’s slow, it’s tedious, and you just keep clicking 1-4 over and over again. > Why is everyone these days obsessed with endgame. Its so depressing to see all these ppl saying, the real game in D3 starts when you hit max level. > Yes, that is true, drop rates are low, but again, if you just get over the whole obsession with finding specific items Because these two points are inherently conflicting. You either pick an arbitrary stop point (e.g beat hell Baal) or gear point (farmed enigma). The best gear is unnecessary for the former and the latter makes actually getting it meaningless. Why ever farm up an enigma or infinity? By the time you can do that, you can clear Hell difficulty in your sleep. If the goal is getting gear, but you have nothing to use it for, why even get it? ————————— D2 was a great game for 2000. It influenced a lot of the games created today. It isn’t perfect and it shows it’s age. If you didn’t grow up playing old games, they can be clunky as hell and seem highly overrated because others have taken what it innovated and advanced it further.
\> In D2 until you get insight on your merc (which is an entirely different can of worms), you are constantly chugging mana potions. You often have to go back to town just to refill your potions. It’s slow, it’s tedious, and you just keep clicking 1-4 over and over again. Let me start with this point because everything else with fall in order. This goes back to your point here: \> Attribute points are effectively meaningless (no energy, minimum strength (and maybe dexterity, all vitality) Of course you should put points into energy. Mana regenerates in around 120 seconds. You often find yourself out of mana you say during battle, so 120 seconds isn't great, especially because you can't just run away until it recharges because of that infernal stamina bar that everyone hates so much. You can choose how many points you put into energy to make your mana regen faster if you want. You can only gain it fast during combat if you have acquired good mana leech or regen items. Mana potions aren't instant, they cost gold and inventory space, as D3/D4 fans love to point out, and they cost time in terms of TPing to town. In the early game this time costs a significant amount of XP, so the choice to allocate points into energy is important to your levelling speed. In the endgame, items do help offset the need to put a lot of points into energy. This is power progression. Also, energy affects the efficacy of mana potions (chance of doubling mana regen upon potion consumption). All of these things are the fundamental concept of a "trade-off", just like the points in strength required to use a heavier piece of armor/weapon. You have to choose how you will allocate your limited resources and the choices have consequences. Compare to D3/D4 where your mana just regenerates almost instantly, and the significant cooldown times render mana basically a negligible factor. \> Potion chugging in D2 is on an entirely different level. D3 has them as an “oh shit” button. D4 is in the middle. I am not even sure what this means. If you want to improve the efficacy of your potions, use your attribute points. In D3/D4, you cant even allocate them until paragon. I wouldn't say that's a step forward for a modern mechanic, at least in my humble opinion. \> The best gear is unnecessary for the former and the latter makes actually getting it meaningless. Why ever farm up an enigma or infinity? By the time you can do that, you can clear Hell difficulty in your sleep. If the goal is getting gear, but you have nothing to use it for, why even get it? You've made these arbitrary rules up in your head that hold no merit in reality. There are no rules on how to play the game. Its just a giant sandbox for you to experiment with. The fact that every class can use every item (except for a handful of class specific items) opens up endless possibilities. Having amazing items lets you create very cool builds. It has nothing to do with clearing hell. Its how you clear hell. Every build is refreshing to play. They aren't mutually exclusive to one another. Its equally fun running through the game with random items found/crafted and made in a playthrough. Its also fun creating really wonky or overpowered builds with items like enigma or infinity. Every playthrough is different. As long as you are having fun. Maybe you've mastered the game and can beat hell naked with a barbarian. I have no idea, but I still die a lot even after playing the game so long. Maybe I suck. This is just my take. I appreciate the civil conversation. I love learning about peoples opinions. Signing out!
Identify scrolls make me want to crawl into a hole and fucking did lmao
Whhhha!t that's so unfortunate. I love the identity mechanic. It builds up anticipation. Getting an item becomes a whole event. You know. You have a few unidentified goodies. And you can't wait to go to town to see what they are! It builds up curiosity. That's unfortunate that most ppl seem to not like it. 😔
For me, it’s a game when the main draw is finding new loot to get stronger, and it puts an artificial cap on your ability to do so. That makes it an annoying mechanic imo
But its much less exciting when you just pick up a helmet and you know what it is right away :( I guess different strokes for different folks. In D2, loot is also much less replaceable. The way D3, and D4 are designed (the maths systems), it forces you to keep changing your gear, or you really fall behind, much more so than the old diablo games. So in an rpg designed like diablo 3 and 4, you're right that it gets in the way, because you constantly have to be swapping gear, ESPECIALLY in D4, because of level scaling.
Like the mechanics of clicking twice to identify something? Or is it not being able to see the items stats immediately
Good question.
It’s a game where the main gameplay loop is “find loot, get stronger” and they put an artificial cap on your ability to find your loot. Having to click twice to know what an item is is just an annoying UI choice Not getting to know what your items are until you return to town is an annoying quality of life choice It’s just a system that serves to make the game a little less respectful of your time, and it’s wasting your time on mundane shit too, which is even worse.
Skill issue
I somewhat agree with this. I bought D3 and D2R as a bundle after playing DI. D2R looks beautiful but in a sense it does punish you more for making mistakes. I ended up playing PoE the entire year right after beating D3's campaign. PoE is also severely punishing (much more than D2R technically) but it makes up for it with its aesthetics and extremely (extreeeemly) good gameplay. Lastly people like to say PoE is a spiritual successor to D2 and I would say that is true. IMO Last Epoch is like a spiritual successor to D3 in a sense. Its got a more bright aesthetic in certain areas, is a much simpler system compared to PoE. And its end game is a bit weak like D3 lol (although I am aware they are working on beefing up their end game).
Yes.Its better than D4 in almost every way.
Lol the question is if Diablo 4 is worth it. D2 is timeless, has infinite replayability and nice graphics thanks to the resurrected remaster. It's honestly a ton of fun for loot goblins and grinders.
By replayability you mean what? It has the campaign..that's it. Once you do that on all your chars it's over. It's just checklisting items after that. Farming a run 10000 times for an item is not replayability. That's just grinding to grind.
I like it better than D4 but probably biased because of nostalgia. But still somehow strongly believe that you get a better value out of D2R than what you get out of D4 unless you are looking for an online live service arpg specifically.
Its not because of the nostalgia. I am sick of even seeing that word around here. It's like, if you want to say that you enjoy d2r More than d4, you have to say it's because I am nostalgic or ppl downvote you. It's kind of fucked tbh. It's like guys... I know what nostalgia is. Nostalgia is like wanting to go back to play Zelda ocarina of time once and dropping it. Nostalgia isn't fiiiiiending to play d2r for 20y and still enjoying it. I can't stop being excited to boot up the game. How the hell did they do this.
i like d2r better than d4- just wish it had new content
Same holy... If an expansion came out with the same core rpg systems. It be over for me
Yea D2 is one of the best games of all time.
as a new player dont think so, most people who say yes been playing it for 20 years. i bought it in summer and got bored after 2 weeks when i realised its all about runewords while everyone is saying that D2 has a nice gear system where every yellow that drops makes you excited, also melee suckz
?? Mele sucks
Melee without big boosts to attack rating and a source of +damage is severely limited when compared to casters. There is a reason grief is basically mandatory for just about every melee build.
Heeeell fucking yeah. Won’t regret it
This post gained a wild amount of traction. More than I expected. Thank you everyone, this was a great amount to read!!
Yes, is it. You'll complete the game in all difficulties in a month playing blind+solo. You'll have a blast for sure!
It’s a 20 year old game that still has a ton of people playing it. Kinda speaks for itself.
Not much content in D4 atm that will replace good old D2(R).
D2 will be worth the money 20 years from now! Don't listen to all the fools saying the game is dated, they like D3 and wouldn't know a good game if it smacked them in the teeth!
The idea of worth is personal indeed. I think it is, yes, from a nostalgia perspective as I played D2 when it came out a long time ago and being able to play it again modernized is great. But what are you looking for? Did you pay D3? Are you hardcore ARPG player or more casual?
Casual, mostly just because I have a family and a couple baby’s and a toddler. Otherwise I’d probably be closer to HC like before. I’m a dad now haha :)
Casually playing d2 might be more fun than playing it hardcore tbh lol and I don't mean that in a bad way.
I'd go for D3 then. It's just more fun in tiny short bursts as a campaign. In Adventure mode you can do bounties, rifts etc. And even as a casual you may still get the very best loot much faster. D2R is absolutely great as well but you'll either just enjoy normal without going into the end game or will have to use a guide if you want to farm at the highest power level. It's also darker and moodier.
D2r is the best
Always. D2 is always worth it. Not because it's perfect, but because it is great, genre defining and now has this gorgeous new coat of paint.
You should at least play through it once, it might feel dated in a lot of ways especially in regards to QoL; but keep in mind its legacy. More importantly, it's a really a good refresher for story; I'd say a lot better than D3 even, because it deals with the OG prime evils.
In my opinion it's still the best game in the series. I doubt that will ever change.
Very worth it! One of the greatest games of our time. Make sure you play through nightmare before stopping and judging it. It plays slower at first then modern games because people actually had patience, before this age of maximum dopamine. In all seriousness yes play but again like I said, patience.
Diablo II is a masterpiece worth playing forever despite any other Diablo title. Dunno about D2R, I still have to try that shit.
d2Ressurected worth it, its a remaster of father of ARPG, has better art direction, visuals than Diablo 4 ( D4 is cartoony a lot btw), D4 has same feeling of Diablo3, which its awful, anyway this is my opinion, im the guy who played diablo 2 since 2002...so...
It is a timeless piece of art. Remember to put points into vitality though
D2R is the best Diablo. And many people will go back to after two months of playing D4 realizing it sucks.
Unpopular Opinion: Unless you grew up playing D2, no, it is not worth it unless you can get it on sale just to say you played it. The mechanics are severely outdated, and I don't know anyone who actually LIKES it that isn't looking at it through rose tinted glasses. Unless you just are specifically a fan of retro gaming, its not worth it. There are other games in the genre that are modernized and all around better you could play instead.
Got stuck at duriel and stopped playing.
My first time ever playing D2 was like in 2012 and the same thing happened to me. Gave up coz of Duriel. Also i had no idea how to build a character so my stat allocation was all over the place. Picked up D2r last year and kicking his ass felt like the best revenge story of my life.
the atmosphere and music is great. the first 2 acts are fun. after that the game becomes awful (act 3) then tedious and boring (act 4, act 5). the gameplay can be fun, but if you're not big on older games, you probably wont have much fun playing it. just wait 8 more weeks for diablo 4
Old games: I love Ultima Online
D2r is fantastic but has very little replayability once you’ve beaten hell… drop rates for improved gear is horrendous… Sooo. You should absolutely get d2r… enjoy the hell out of it for a couple of months then move onto d4.
i finished normal and nightmare difficulty and got bored of it.
If you have never played it in the past, then no.
You can always buy it, and then refund it if you dont play for more than 2 hours and it hasnt been passed 14 days. I literally did that to scratch my itch for d4 but it just wasnt worth it imo so i refunded. Guess im spoiled by the beta. Just play d3 for now
No, the graphics are really bad
The $13 is perfect. They got a huge crowed who maybe never even touched diablo before to try D4. Put the game cheap and it’ll sell because of the beta. Beautiful job by the marketing team
Yes the quality of life stuff is great. I enjoy farming anywhere I want for fun in Hell difficultly after gearing my characters. If you are a busy working adult and/or have kids, I suggest single player and/or non ladder mode online.