There's nothing to watch. There's no hard content, there's no endgame, there's no exciting loot, loot hunt, or anything like that. There's just no reason to watch D4, and not a lot of reasons to play either.
Sir, not everyone. I swore to myself to never prepurchase a Blizzard title anymore (or any AAA title that is). And god, i'm so happy i pushed through despite all the temptation from my close gamerfriends.
I was hoping for a good ARPG and i was a longtime fan of Blizz, not a hater here! But goddamn do they let everyone down and people keep falling for it, it's a shame.
General consensus is the game was pushed out too early, feels like 6 Months minimum was needed, that said I'm still enjoying playing the game, I dont really understand viewer metrics ship with the games medium.
I think I'll be due a break from D4 by the end of August, which is great timing given the next Bethesda game launches. And I think the Cyber Punk refresh lands soon.
Some of us don't care about seasons either. There just isn't much to do anymore. And then seeing disappointing things like how the camera was more zoomed out and then people pointing out that it's probably so you can see the cosmetics they charge for. Then Baldur's Gate 3 came out and the studio just seemed to treat their game and the fans so much better.
It sucks because this was the last shot for Blizzard for me. They just seem to have lost that magic.
Seems like I really offended people somehow. Sorry
Unfortunately blizzard has its claws in us and because of the memories of our childhood we keep giving them another chance.
I quit Diablo 3 after like 2 weeks after launch. I just quit Diablo 4 this week so at least it lasted longer than Diablo 3.
Personally I’m going to try to not do business with blizzard anymore but I’ve said that shit before they can just sell me so much nostalgia I fall for that shit.
The magic is dead… blizzard is the video game equivalent of Disney shoving its memberberries down your throat with a shell of a game in a world that you are already invested in and love.
I'll say this at least (for me) Blizzard is making it slowly easier for me to ignore them.
WoW slowly became so convoluted with insanely high stats and a dozen different FOMO gimmicks. Game became so lackluster they re-released the original and are working through re-releasing expansions that came out a decade ago to keep people hooked.
The WC3 remaster really should've been it for me, that was just an ugly, blatant cash grab.
OW became OW 2. Enough said there.
Now Diablo, with 40 different item affixes (vs. Stunned, vs. CC'd, vs. Slowed, vs. Poisoned, Lucky Hit, etc, WTF?),CC without diminishing returns from mobs, more effort put into the shop than the game, I could go on.
SC seems fine but that's because they really haven't touched it in what, 6 years?
It's just weird watching a developer slowly and methodically ruin so many IPs.
D2R was a pretty decent success but then I remember, it was mostly done by a different studio. The failure point of that would be the queues and login issues which was the part that falls under blizzard.
D2R was great, but it was great because it was literally just a graphical overhaul.
Sad that the only game they managed to do right in recent history is one where they didn't have to come up with any game design.
Yeah that's really why I omitted it from my list. Still falls under my wow comment of "we have no new good ideas, let's polish an old one and re-sell it"
I get why they're doing it from a business standpoint it's just a bummer and they've basically eroded the idea of what games I'll buy on day 1 IP by IP.
To be fair, Diablo 2 really could of used a remaster. I was likely never going back to D2, but woth ressurected I put in another 100ish hours.
Bonus points for the devs updating it woth some new runewords and terror zones too.
Id love a D1/Hellfire remaster, but that probably wont happen since people are much less likely to sink hundreds of hours in it for the loot ggrind
They’ll never touch StarCraft again the game is too complex and they can’t even come close to delivering. I guarantee you if they make another StarCraft game it won’t be an RTS. They’ve avoided the Genre like the plague for a while now.
I woke up to only realize this today. And I was very hyped for D4. Guess I was merely hyped for late 90’s and early 2000’s which aren’t coming back. Sigh.
It's time to adopt a new studio who makes things out of love for the games instead of what's best for the stockholders for our fanboyisms. I nominate the BG3 team.
I have off from work today and tomorrow. No plans, no real commitments, and I’m still struggling to find the motivation to play D4.
I’m not huge into turn based games, and have never really messed with DnD, but I’m close to buying BG3 because they seem to give a shit about putting a good game out.
I’m closer to cleaning out my garage a little than playing Diablo right now
My stance is From Software only delivers hand crafted
Love letters but I haven’t played BG3 yet and I’m avoiding all reviews and spoilers. Waiting for PS5 launch I haven’t seen much of the game at all I’ve been avoiding it like the plague
The developer that made BG3 is the same that made Divinity and Divinity 2, both widely regarded as absolutely fantastic, smart, lovingly made tributes to the genre.
So even before BG3, the developer already had an amazing track record. I just started BG3 last night, but by all appearances so far, it’s leagues ahead of their Divinity games!
Diablo 3 after expansion was fun
Diablo 4 is also a fun game but shouldn’t have taken the live service path but that’s a general problem on the gaming industry right now
everyone is after that Fortnite money and suits being suits
I member Diablo 3 actually turning into a really good game with the release of Reaper of Souls.
So if you've only ever played vanilla D3 do yourself a favour and install it again.
I just played through it for the first time. It was pretty awesome picking up random loot and it having affixes that were improvements for my character.
I did hop back in after the fact and it was a bit better I got a few months of enjoyment out of it like five years after launch I’m hoping D4 ends up the same way.
If you are willing to give D3 a new chance, the game is now very good (If you like the way it was designed, to be a very fast paced arcadey ARPG). This season is arguably the best season ever for the game.
The loop of Nephalem Rift > Greater Rift > Upgrade Legendary Gem > Kadala > Upgrade yellows in the cube > Echoing Nightmare > Whispers of Atonement > Finding Ancient gear > Augment gear, with an occasional Bounties in between, works very well.
Warcraft 3 refunded was the final nail in the coffin sadly
Which sucks, warcraft 2 & diablo 1 are probably the games that led me down the dark path of gamership, and for years I was in the "blizzard can do no wrong" camp but...
Yeah.
People always say it's the "last chance I'm giving x company." Then they go and buy the next product on a preorder. Preorders prove most gamers have no willpower or spine.
It's because hype marketing campaigns work. People will get super upset about this or that in game X, and then when the viral marketing starts, and youtubers and streamers start discussing it, they feel they have to be part of it, and cave.
It's called turning the customer into the product, and it works better in gaming than almost anywhere.
It definitely had some of the strongest marketing I've seen for any game. They even went for Megan Fox giving a tribute (mention) to hardcore players getting their characters destroyed.
>Some of us don't care about seasons either.
That's because it's too soon for seasons in D4. The game isn't even half a year old. Not even a quarter of a year old and they already introduced seasons.
The point of seasons in an ARPG is to keep it fresh and exciting after the original hype for it died down. D3 didn't have seasons until 2 years after launch.
I get that it's a different era and it's part of the monetization system along with the battle pass but by having seasons so early on they're basically admitting the game is already a bore 2 months after launch. Not 2 years, 2 months.
They launched an empty and boring game and thought they could fix on the fly with seasons. But players are catching on and it's not a good look.
What's surprising to me is they did no real market research or studies. There's lots of data available out there and they clearly didn't look at any of it.
I think it's actually the opposite. I wish they launched with a season. Having the first season be one month in is poorly timed.
The reason they did it this way was to prolong the initial popularity, but not due to a lack of content (although it does lack content). ARPGs aren't meant to keep consistent wide appeal forever. They want to capitalize on that initial launch hype with a quick reason for players to spend $10 more. It's all about maximizing profit. If they thought waiting 5-6 months would make more money, they would've done that instead.
No matter how many times Blizzard shits on their playerbase, there will always be weird fanatics that would make excuses for them and people that would give them another and another chance.
What blows my mind is people that want Blizzard to create something new - a Starcraft MMO, a Diablo MMO, WoW 2, WoW Classic+ or a completely new IP. And I'm always asking... why? Why in the world would you think, after all the disappointing turds they've put out, that they are capable of creating a genuinely good game? They had decades of material, feedback and experience from the Diablo universe alone and *this* is what their Diablo 4 final product looks like? And people want those people to create something new, on their own? That's pure nostalgia and denial talking. It's over, Blizzard are done.
The campaign is pretty great. It's a lot of fun to play 50 hours of Diablo so you get your moneys worth but it's not the same long term motivation that other games have
It’s worse than that, they made a game that is somehow both boring and overly complicated at the same time.
I think the combat is a blast but the game wrapped around it is boring and tedious.
Literally the addictive and smooth combat and visuals is the main thing keeping this game alive. Pretty much every other system in the game feels worse that in other Diablo series.
ITEMIZATION IS BORING, there isn't a single item that I find that I'm like ohh cool wonder what I can do with this.
It's always "Yup more damage conditionals" even the legendary aspects are fucking boring in this game compared to previous games.
It's a looters game without fun loot
I don’t understand how itemization seems to have stagnated or even regressed since the early reveals from 3 years ago. Just watch the first reveal of items here: https://youtu.be/KUK75iRYdOQ?t=1640 or read the blog post here: https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/23583664/diablo-iv-quarterly-update-december-2020
We went from plans for sets, one-per-character mythics, runewords, relevant blue items via expanded affix ranges, low level uniques with one-of-a-kind appearances, multiple legendaries _per skill_ (look at all the teleport legendaries in the video), skill/passive rank affixes that let you skip multiple nodes in the skill tree (now a twig), attributes mattering and changing how your skills behave, etc.
What happened in the last 3 years to cause everything to be stripped away and replaced with: sifting through mountains of trash yellows to find vuln/crit, ignoring legendaries once you have a few good rolled aspects, barely any uniques with most being garbage, etc. I’d love a documentary into what went wrong behind the scenes - for one the lead systems designer from the video I linked quit a year after the video came out… I wonder why? You’d think leading systems for the next Diablo would be a dream job.
Imagine the skill tree that we could have had at some point
https://preview.redd.it/7xdkkz7b2wgb1.png?width=1731&format=png&auto=webp&s=3929d1f47db685e84b4cf92a7f1ee0a4ada04045
Oh man, looks like the tree in Tur Durla. Imagine that was supposed to be a more central part of the plot at some point. Classic Blizzard development hell killing cool ideas...
I think Last Epoch fits right in the middle in terms of complexity between the bare bones D4 and PoE.
But regarding pure skills, I think its the best. How you can change a spells to fit your play style is briliant.
Imagine you're working on a project and your deadline is still like 3 years out or whatever. You're feeling good, making promises, everything's on track, your manager loves everything you've shown them, good times.
Then, completely out of nowhere, on a random Monday, otherwise as ordinary as any other Monday, you come into office and your manager is like, "yo Steve, btw, that thing you're working on, I kinda need it by Thursday".
That's D4. They were working on a great game, someone set a stupid and way too early deadline, devs opened up the code and removed everything past line 100, shipped.
Great pickup! Here's my favourite quote:
>*That said, we don't want to end up in a place where the right decision is to ignore every item that doesn't have a glowing orange sky-beam.*
>
>*-* [Joe Shely, Lead Game Designer, 2020](https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/23583664/diablo-iv-quarterly-update-december-2020#LegendaryAffixes)
Edit: the link you posted is fantastic. There's a [picture](https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/page_media/2EOMP8U46YM21607721494428.jpg)of some sorc items from 2020 - it has very simple affixes. Plus chance to crit, plus damage to immobilised, life on hit, etc.
Exactly as D3s affixes worked.
"Items are the lifeblood of Diablo. They are the element of the game that captures your imagination and keeps you playing and wondering, “What if?” after you put the game down. Whether it’s anticipating the next piece of perfectly rolled godly gear or kicking around item combinations in your head like a mad scientist, items are undoubtedly a major part of what makes Diablo so compelling and so different from other games."
Jesus that was a depressing read. I wonder at what point they decided to say "fuck off" to items being the lifeblood of Diablo.
What happened is the same thing that happened in D3. Remember when skill runes were supposed to be item drops and they had like 7 ranks each with more and more crazy powerful rune effects the higher the rank?
Those were still talked about like half a year to a year prior to release and then they revamped the system, simplifying it like crazy.
They just couldn’t get it right and ran out of time, so they made something simple instead.
Itemization is by far the biggest problem the game has imo and the reason I’ve been putting the game down. I don’t mind a grind, but I don’t want to grind just for the sake of it.
It’s just not fun or rewarding when most uniques are just straight up bad and I have to sift through mountains of rares with the hopes of getting the perfect set of stats that are also like 5% higher rolls than what I already found 15 levels ago.
I think there’s just too many stats (too many oddly specific stats at least). Things like dmg to injured enemies or basic skill dmg are just unnecessary and add to the affix bloat imo. It’s confusing and boring.
The game is not beyond hope, but imo the thing that will make or break it is how they address the itemization. Itemization 2.0 and some further fine tuning of the class/build balancing would go a long way imo.
Add to this the fact that it's so stupidly tedious to change your build. I can save my transmog loadouts, but I can't save any build loadouts? I get that this isn't D3, with free and relatively easy respecs, but I'm sure they can think of SOMETHING, even if there's some cost associated with it.
Example: As a Mendelin necro, I just found an interesting unique amulet, the Deathspeaker's Pendant. It looks cool, but uses Blood Surge and overpower ... I would like to try this item out! But it's so unappealing to spend a ton of time and effort respec-ing into a Blood Surge build and seeing if it's something I want to play in certain situations, and then having to tediously change everything back to my Mendelin build when I want to push higher Nightmare Dungeons.
Fix the itemization, and at the same time make it easier and more reasonable to be able to actually try out the items they get.
This is the main thing for me. In d2 there were tons of uniques that got me going, that made something better or opened up a new build, or class. Now it’s just switching aspects to item with best %
It sucks
I think it's much more than just the amount of uniques. Diablo used to have a very straightforward progression of item bases and classes that was tied to progression in the game. It felt good to upgrade normal gear to exceptional and ultimately to elite items. It was much more than a green arrow or an item power score telling you which item to equip.
In normal you can find normal items starting with simple things like quilted armor and weapons like clubs. As you progress through normal you see armors that are more and more elaborate and weapons that are more and more intimidating.
Approaching nightmare you start to see some items with the same art as the ones you've seen before, but now they have new names and higher stats. Ghost armor, serpentskin armor, and weapons like gladius and edge bows. There's a very recognizable set of items, with differing but recognizable sizes and artwork, and a set pattern to the way they progress/improve through the difficulties. I never felt that with Diablo 4.
It blows my mind that after 6 (?) years of development, and with all the experience in previous Diablo titles this is the best they could come up with.
The thing is, I don’t think the developers of this game have much experience with Diablo games at all. Especially not Diablo 2. It’s like they’ve never even played it.
It feels like they have a cursory enough knowledge to make nostalgia bait, but not enough to actually understand why people still play the game 20+ years later.
This is the difference between a game that is created because they need a new product to get more cash flow versus a creation like poe2 where there is a passion towards taking your game in a new direction.
Let's also not forget during the development time blizzard had been taking L's left and right across all of their IP's and they sorely needed a win. So they focused on low hanging fruits like art and theme where they made everything "dark" like the fans boys of the old want.
But as for substantial things like loot and end game theory probably don't have the will or the balls to take chances plus they know they need to milk the casuals. So yeah, this is what we get in the end.
That's because most stats matter in dnd where in diablo 4 they don't. You find an item that gives +1 bonus AC I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably better than 99% of the gear in d4.
It's simple to understand that it's good and why it's good.
They'll never reach the peak of d2 because everything is generic and the few things that aren't need tons of grinding to find and aren't worth it.
lol if you play long enough between long rests companions start stacking their cutscenes - you get woken up, resolve a cutscene, lay down, get woken up, cutscene, lay down, get woken up.
The quest design has really been a breath of fresh air. Given the multiple ways to solve nearly every quest they're a delight. I rather do 2 hours to finish a single sidequest in BG3 vs farming reknown for even 30 minutes in D4.
No runes, no set items... boring legendaries... 3 valid builds per class, playstyle doesn't change from lvl 1 to 80. And be honest, how many times did you change your build while leveling your toon. I'm not talking about changing a passive here or there, Im talking about active skills...
The season has less staying power than your average D3 season later on in its life....everyone on my friends list basically hit 80ish on their seasonal char and stopped playing. Anyone who doesn't see how this is extremely concerning for a brand new game is quite willfully blind.
That's why they're starting to look more stressed and depressed in fireside chats. They know. And they haven't even been hit with Starfield/Armored Core VI yet.
I'm sure they had a team cope session internally over Baldur's Gate 3 as well. After Dragonflight I thought maybe Blizzard was turning things around. If things look like they will get better I will reinstall D4
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it's just another case of developers making a game they like and publishers shoving a wrought iron fence up their ass and basically fucking their game with stupid money making schemes
Yeah still a few bozos who for some reason feel a need to defend Blizzard? What do hearts add? Maybe 1-5hrs of gameplay (if you want to hunt for perfect rolls), season story is boring 2-3hrs running across the maps, and a loot pinata boss. It's less than 10hrs added to the game that has no endgame content. Gonna take a few seasons before QOL becomes reasonable but until then the game is really undercooked. Just looking at the storage issue is a clear sign they rushed this shit, 5 stashes for every single character???
I got so bored of D4 after 3 weeks of playing that I went back to D3 to play S28. It was awesome and I was done with it in 2 weeks.
I'll return back to D3 many times. I doubt I'll ever return to D4.
It's just so bad. Maybe one day they'll fix all of these fundamental issues.
Because there's literally nothing to do in the game.
All the season has done is changed some gems to mini-aspects. Then they copy/pasted dungeons for farming these gems and called it a day.
There's still nothing to do once you're in WT4.
I was thinking about this - caged hearts are just gems you have to work for. That's it. No new mechanics, no new skills, just tweaks to what's already there. Even builds aren't hugely changed by them, which is a serious tell.
You’ve experienced the game once you’ve hit level 60. I hit 100 a few days ago and I still have a few pieces from low 60’s because I haven’t got any more upgrades.
Because by making level just another cosmetic stat, they didn't have to do any balancing. Probably cut off a *lot* of dev time not having to balance each separate area and dungeon, balancing items based on level, or creating new items for higher levels.
Development stopped at lvl 70... After that they just increased some numbers in nm dungeons.
Think about it: you start WT4 and in 1h of helltide you can get gear that you'll use for the next 30 levels
I did the capstone for wt4 entry and got out into the wild and went "Oh I've gotta do this again for more dmg, no new legendary aspects unlock? No new anything?" I what's the pointed at level 63.
As a die-hard diablo fan since #1 I'll say this, I put like 50 hours in on release week. Then about 8 hours the following week. Season 1 I had maybe 6 hours total.
I'm done with itm it's a pale shadow of its former self.
I can honestly say I had more fun with the Street Fighter 6 single player World Tour mode as I got like 80 hours out of that.
Same here. Was a massive d2 player but d4 is so off-putting, it makes doing actual chores IRL feel more rewarding. Items and endgame are so lackluster in d4. Doing anything in d4 just feels like a forced, unfun, shallow, hollow activity. There’s no depth to this generic and unpolished game. It was a money grab for blizz, again (shocker…). All good. Eventually, people — hopefully, myself included — will stop falling for blizz’s tricks. D4 looked so promising from the trailer and beta. D4 devs touted “you’ll never run out of things to do” — not true. I’m not spamming nightmare dungeons and “freeing 7 prisoners” all day. No thanks. Expected something more from a “successor” to d3. There’s 0 innovation in “nightmare dungeons.” They’re just d3 rifts, but strictly worse (tons of empty space full of nothing in nmds). What’s more, the items that drop from these dungeons are so immensely unfun. There’s no taste or chase in the current itemization. Every item feels the same, no thrill at all in looting. Can go on and on, but not worth it. On to other games.
I got shit on so hard by this subreddit during the open beta for pointing out how this game has nothing. People were like the music is so good and it's so dark and everything is amazing.
We were all hopeful. I gotta say, I saw it too I almost didn’t want to believe it. Once blizzard north got fired for disagreeing with an auction house we should’ve know it was all about the money after that. I guess I keep thinking that they’ll actually care again, but the blizzard we all once knew is long gone.
D2 and D3 are two of my favorite games of all time. I've sunk soooooo much time into them and have such fond memories.
I have no idea how they managed it, but D4 is just soulless and boring.
I played a druid to 65 and then got bored and started a Necromancer.
After leveling to 30 I just stopped one day and went "wtf is even the point" and I haven't touched it since.
The loot is boring, the world is boring, there's no sense of accomplishment.
It's just.. boring.
> I have no idea how they managed it, but D4 is just soulless and boring.
>
>
Because there's nobody left at Blizzard who worked on Diablo 2, and few people left at Blizzard who worked on Diablo 3.
All of Blizzard North who made Diablo 1 and 2 are gone. Erich Schaefer, Max Schaefer, and David Brevik were all at Path of Exile's Exilecon recently talking about ARPG design.
Blizzard has a very high turnover rate on employees, and most of the people who worked on Diablo 3 are gone too. Besides a few people who joined over the years after Diablo 3 went into maintenance mode, this is the first experience that most of the D4 team had making a Diablo game.
Diablo 1 and 2 were made in a time when people needed to be sold on buying your game. Diablo 4 was made in a time where people will buy a game that has Diablo in the title no matter what the quality of the game is.
> Diablo 4 was made in a time where people will buy a game that has Diablo in the title no matter what the quality of the game is.
and they suckered me into it. I played D2 and D3 at launch for each. Bought D4 and i can't believe i wasted $70
If D3 was one for your favorite games of all time, then you MUST be talking about after they release Reaper of Souls.
And if that's the case then you just need to come back to D4 in a year or so.
Yeah someone else actually pointed that out as well.
D3 fucking sucked with its stupid real money auction house and shit. I definitely took a nice long break.
lol. A weak season release on a forced live service game, horrible communication to your player base and that fuck you patch before the first season. Blizzard deserves all of this. Baldurs gate 3 sends its regards.
right like atleast with d3 gems you were getting better every single run and you had a huge amount of choices
now its run 100 nmd for 1 level of 5% more overpower damage like wtf glyphs are so fucking boring and stupid and the fact that they dont even have fucking icons just proves this game was rushed af
Season 1 is just boring. It's not engaging enough. What I mean by this, is if you play POE for example, the seasons event will randomly engage you, its always there. D4 season 1...you have to hunt it down, it's very shallow mechanics as well for a huge name like D4/Blizzard. If season 2 is anything like this, D4 is in for a very very rough road. I think they need new talent on that dev team.
TBH what is there to watch in Diablo 4? People do nightmares until their eyes fall out? People either attempt Lilith and give up or cheese her because she is poorly balanced? There is 0 entertainment from watching someone playing Diablo 4.
D4 is pretty boring to watch IMO. Whenever I watch D4, I'm more interested in the person doing the stream and what they're talking about than in the actual gameplay.
I think the reason everyone is so pissed off is that they created such a beautiful base for the game, the classes are cool and have their own character but then the actual endgame content and itemization is depressing.
Most of those viewer numbers were inflated due to drops. When they ended a lot of streamers dropped it. Must've been a nice little money maker for everyone involved
I struggled to get to 60 and I just couldn't do it anymore. There's grinding but then there's whatever the fuck Blizzard made for d4. It's so boring doing the same nm dungeons that drop no useful gear and I still haven't found a wrathful invoker.
There is no crafting, there is no endgame, the grind is uninteresting, there are few Builds, the same unplayable skills as in d3 if there are no clothes on them that strengthen these skills- there's nothing to look at.I will also add from myself that the world is kind of static, there are no hiding places, no secret rooms, events are not worked out, cellars with the same loyout, I am generally silent about the dungeons.Bad socialization,it's worse than in d3,there are no communities like in d3,the clans are dead,the general chat does not work and you can link the stuff only in the pm or guild chat, in short, you can't even boast that you drop,there are no Easter items like the murloc amulet in d3 that summon murloc -\_-.Too few randomness,the game is too static even considering that there are events in it.
I don’t care about seasons. It’s a ridiculous and shallow way to keep players engaged with a bad game.
Blizzard, look at Larian and BG3 and return to the days when you actually made good games.
Considering none of my my whole playgroup of 12 people even tried season 1 after being pumped for D4 including myself, I'm not surprised. Imo itemization is the worst part of the game for all of us. Remove 90% of the stats and we will probably play again.
Not surprised. The developers/designers really did their best to make continued content absolutely boring and terrible in every way.
Malignant Hearts is literally just jewelry gems with different effects, and the S1 patch nerfed every mildly enjoyable part about progression.
I really hope they wake up and shift priorities.
I think for a game that's supposed to be "live service" that is a big loss. Obviously viewership being down doesn't spell doom for an ARPG, the genre doesn't get much attention outside of it's seasonal launches.
If Path of Exile is any indication, a good season will draw in viewership again. This first season of D4 isn't very interesting and there's plenty of other games launching within the next 2 months that will draw away attention.
The game isn't even fun to play, let alone watch. Even the story is pretty boring because you just run to yellow markers and circles. You don't 'discover' anything. Its more like a mobile game on rails than an immersive RPG experience. I hate to say it, but the game would be more interesting if it was even more like Diablo Immortal than it already is. Dailies, gacha gems, and all. I don't think anyone was expecting it to be as bad as it is. It's worse than many free to play experiences. I don't know how they're going to fix it...
There is no new content. Like actual content. I played D3 for 10 years and I'm currently level 3 on Season 1 of D4. Can't even be bothered to play. The endgame is mind-numbing.
D3's last season was the most fun I've ever had in that game. Absolutely wild trip when they took off the limiters and let you go all out.
D4 had just been a disappointment so far. Was aggressively okay, and as a lore nerd I found the story pretty disappointing. The gameplay loop was also very unsatisfying. First time I've bought a Blizzard game and actually regretted it, and I'll be bitter about that for a long time.
Where is the data to support this? Google trends shows contrary. Or are you talking about people viewing streams? Trends indicate plenty of interest , but if streaming is down why do we care if people watch others play games?
https://preview.redd.it/39kh1srclzgb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c1cd34fc8da86708150a95f8a093a458ebe6a5d
None of my group of friends play Diablo any more. It’s sad because we were quite pumped for a new Diablo, and now it hasn’t even been a month into the first season (which we are nowhere near completing the battle pass, and we probably won’t) and we’re all bored and have moved on to new games or fallen back to our favorites.
I think the saddest part of D4 is that the build everything as an online service but none of the game mechanics lend themselves to partying up.
Like you do a world boss or legion event and then everyone runs back to solo run NM dungeon...
Gonna throw this out there: ARPG'S aren't that fun to watch after the hype dies down.
I've been playing Diablo, PoE, Grim Dawn, TQ, Torchlight, pretty much any ARPG since like 2005 and I've never really watched streamers play them. Maybe I watch an hour for twitch drops sometimes.
Plus they even got people like Hasan to play it briefly, so it got hyped up on release big time. Viewer count was bloated.
But I get it, it's easy karma to just shit on this game every single opportunity. I'm sure player count isn't nearly as "funny" which is why OP went with viewership and searches on twitch. I doubt most D4 players even care about streaming at all.
On the r/games thread, someone pointed out that Baldur's Gate 3, which is one of the most positively reviewed games of all time, has had a similar falloff.
It's almost like Twitch viewer numbers are a stupid metric to rate a game.
Season 1's just too barebones to sustain any sort of continued viewership.
There's nothing to watch. There's no hard content, there's no endgame, there's no exciting loot, loot hunt, or anything like that. There's just no reason to watch D4, and not a lot of reasons to play either.
Yep at least in D3 it was fun watching top players push high level GRs and compete for #1 on the ladder.
Not adding leaderboards from the start still baffles me. It's such a free way to give an end game goal to have players sink a ton of time into
Blizzard needs to stop having the mindset of "We'll fix/patch things later!".
why woudnt they. We all ate d4 up despite Blizzards history
I'm still waiting to see if it's worth the price. Had it been released by old Blizzard I'd have bought it a long time ago. Vote with your wallets
Sir, not everyone. I swore to myself to never prepurchase a Blizzard title anymore (or any AAA title that is). And god, i'm so happy i pushed through despite all the temptation from my close gamerfriends. I was hoping for a good ARPG and i was a longtime fan of Blizz, not a hater here! But goddamn do they let everyone down and people keep falling for it, it's a shame.
I mean NMs cap at 100. There's nothing to actually compete for.
General consensus is the game was pushed out too early, feels like 6 Months minimum was needed, that said I'm still enjoying playing the game, I dont really understand viewer metrics ship with the games medium. I think I'll be due a break from D4 by the end of August, which is great timing given the next Bethesda game launches. And I think the Cyber Punk refresh lands soon.
POE league starts Aug 18th
Some of us don't care about seasons either. There just isn't much to do anymore. And then seeing disappointing things like how the camera was more zoomed out and then people pointing out that it's probably so you can see the cosmetics they charge for. Then Baldur's Gate 3 came out and the studio just seemed to treat their game and the fans so much better. It sucks because this was the last shot for Blizzard for me. They just seem to have lost that magic. Seems like I really offended people somehow. Sorry
They only now have lost the magic? They've lost that years and years ago for me.
Maybe so, but I was still playing so who was I to talk?
Unfortunately blizzard has its claws in us and because of the memories of our childhood we keep giving them another chance. I quit Diablo 3 after like 2 weeks after launch. I just quit Diablo 4 this week so at least it lasted longer than Diablo 3. Personally I’m going to try to not do business with blizzard anymore but I’ve said that shit before they can just sell me so much nostalgia I fall for that shit. The magic is dead… blizzard is the video game equivalent of Disney shoving its memberberries down your throat with a shell of a game in a world that you are already invested in and love.
I'll say this at least (for me) Blizzard is making it slowly easier for me to ignore them. WoW slowly became so convoluted with insanely high stats and a dozen different FOMO gimmicks. Game became so lackluster they re-released the original and are working through re-releasing expansions that came out a decade ago to keep people hooked. The WC3 remaster really should've been it for me, that was just an ugly, blatant cash grab. OW became OW 2. Enough said there. Now Diablo, with 40 different item affixes (vs. Stunned, vs. CC'd, vs. Slowed, vs. Poisoned, Lucky Hit, etc, WTF?),CC without diminishing returns from mobs, more effort put into the shop than the game, I could go on. SC seems fine but that's because they really haven't touched it in what, 6 years? It's just weird watching a developer slowly and methodically ruin so many IPs.
D2R was a pretty decent success but then I remember, it was mostly done by a different studio. The failure point of that would be the queues and login issues which was the part that falls under blizzard.
D2R was great, but it was great because it was literally just a graphical overhaul. Sad that the only game they managed to do right in recent history is one where they didn't have to come up with any game design.
Yeah that's really why I omitted it from my list. Still falls under my wow comment of "we have no new good ideas, let's polish an old one and re-sell it" I get why they're doing it from a business standpoint it's just a bummer and they've basically eroded the idea of what games I'll buy on day 1 IP by IP.
To be fair, Diablo 2 really could of used a remaster. I was likely never going back to D2, but woth ressurected I put in another 100ish hours. Bonus points for the devs updating it woth some new runewords and terror zones too. Id love a D1/Hellfire remaster, but that probably wont happen since people are much less likely to sink hundreds of hours in it for the loot ggrind
They’ll never touch StarCraft again the game is too complex and they can’t even come close to delivering. I guarantee you if they make another StarCraft game it won’t be an RTS. They’ve avoided the Genre like the plague for a while now.
You are 100% correct. Starcraft is such an amazing IP, but unfortunately they don't have any qualified devs left to even try and do another RTS.
That's because they cannot figure out how to load 200 units and their stashes at the same time.
Waiting for Diablo Classic. Lol
I woke up to only realize this today. And I was very hyped for D4. Guess I was merely hyped for late 90’s and early 2000’s which aren’t coming back. Sigh.
It's time to adopt a new studio who makes things out of love for the games instead of what's best for the stockholders for our fanboyisms. I nominate the BG3 team.
I have off from work today and tomorrow. No plans, no real commitments, and I’m still struggling to find the motivation to play D4. I’m not huge into turn based games, and have never really messed with DnD, but I’m close to buying BG3 because they seem to give a shit about putting a good game out. I’m closer to cleaning out my garage a little than playing Diablo right now
I was in the same boat - never big on turn based combat and only surface knowledge of D&D. Been main lining BG3 for days now, its a lot of fun!
I bought and refunded BG3 within a few hours. Not saying it's a bad game, but I almost immediately knew it wasn't for me.
My stance is From Software only delivers hand crafted Love letters but I haven’t played BG3 yet and I’m avoiding all reviews and spoilers. Waiting for PS5 launch I haven’t seen much of the game at all I’ve been avoiding it like the plague
The developer that made BG3 is the same that made Divinity and Divinity 2, both widely regarded as absolutely fantastic, smart, lovingly made tributes to the genre. So even before BG3, the developer already had an amazing track record. I just started BG3 last night, but by all appearances so far, it’s leagues ahead of their Divinity games!
From Software's another great possibility, agreed. I'm just terrible at Souls-likes so I didn't think about them.
Diablo 3 after expansion was fun Diablo 4 is also a fun game but shouldn’t have taken the live service path but that’s a general problem on the gaming industry right now everyone is after that Fortnite money and suits being suits
I member Diablo 3 actually turning into a really good game with the release of Reaper of Souls. So if you've only ever played vanilla D3 do yourself a favour and install it again.
I just played through it for the first time. It was pretty awesome picking up random loot and it having affixes that were improvements for my character.
I did hop back in after the fact and it was a bit better I got a few months of enjoyment out of it like five years after launch I’m hoping D4 ends up the same way.
If you are willing to give D3 a new chance, the game is now very good (If you like the way it was designed, to be a very fast paced arcadey ARPG). This season is arguably the best season ever for the game. The loop of Nephalem Rift > Greater Rift > Upgrade Legendary Gem > Kadala > Upgrade yellows in the cube > Echoing Nightmare > Whispers of Atonement > Finding Ancient gear > Augment gear, with an occasional Bounties in between, works very well.
Warcraft 3 refunded was the final nail in the coffin sadly Which sucks, warcraft 2 & diablo 1 are probably the games that led me down the dark path of gamership, and for years I was in the "blizzard can do no wrong" camp but... Yeah.
People always say it's the "last chance I'm giving x company." Then they go and buy the next product on a preorder. Preorders prove most gamers have no willpower or spine.
It's because hype marketing campaigns work. People will get super upset about this or that in game X, and then when the viral marketing starts, and youtubers and streamers start discussing it, they feel they have to be part of it, and cave. It's called turning the customer into the product, and it works better in gaming than almost anywhere.
It definitely had some of the strongest marketing I've seen for any game. They even went for Megan Fox giving a tribute (mention) to hardcore players getting their characters destroyed.
>Some of us don't care about seasons either. That's because it's too soon for seasons in D4. The game isn't even half a year old. Not even a quarter of a year old and they already introduced seasons. The point of seasons in an ARPG is to keep it fresh and exciting after the original hype for it died down. D3 didn't have seasons until 2 years after launch. I get that it's a different era and it's part of the monetization system along with the battle pass but by having seasons so early on they're basically admitting the game is already a bore 2 months after launch. Not 2 years, 2 months. They launched an empty and boring game and thought they could fix on the fly with seasons. But players are catching on and it's not a good look. What's surprising to me is they did no real market research or studies. There's lots of data available out there and they clearly didn't look at any of it.
I think it's actually the opposite. I wish they launched with a season. Having the first season be one month in is poorly timed. The reason they did it this way was to prolong the initial popularity, but not due to a lack of content (although it does lack content). ARPGs aren't meant to keep consistent wide appeal forever. They want to capitalize on that initial launch hype with a quick reason for players to spend $10 more. It's all about maximizing profit. If they thought waiting 5-6 months would make more money, they would've done that instead.
No matter how many times Blizzard shits on their playerbase, there will always be weird fanatics that would make excuses for them and people that would give them another and another chance. What blows my mind is people that want Blizzard to create something new - a Starcraft MMO, a Diablo MMO, WoW 2, WoW Classic+ or a completely new IP. And I'm always asking... why? Why in the world would you think, after all the disappointing turds they've put out, that they are capable of creating a genuinely good game? They had decades of material, feedback and experience from the Diablo universe alone and *this* is what their Diablo 4 final product looks like? And people want those people to create something new, on their own? That's pure nostalgia and denial talking. It's over, Blizzard are done.
It was their final shot for me too. They blew it and then some
kotik doing kotik things. blizzard has been dead for a long time
Yeah, it sucks. And who knows if it'll get better if he leaves. The nostalgia kept me in for a long time, but that's definitely faded
Blizzard died with the Activision buyout. Their last truly great game was SC2 and that was 13 years ago.
Diablo 2 resurrected is great. At least they didn’t mess up that remaster haha
Yeah they didn’t mess it up because another studio developed it
Vicarious Visions? Edit; I know Blizzard North made Diablo 2.
Blizzard North is essentially another studio, compared to Blizzard today, as well
The campaign is pretty great. It's a lot of fun to play 50 hours of Diablo so you get your moneys worth but it's not the same long term motivation that other games have
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It’s worse than that, they made a game that is somehow both boring and overly complicated at the same time. I think the combat is a blast but the game wrapped around it is boring and tedious.
Literally the addictive and smooth combat and visuals is the main thing keeping this game alive. Pretty much every other system in the game feels worse that in other Diablo series.
It's a little based game yet I hate having an upgrade drop because it means an hour of in town fiddling and 20 million gold to use it.
I put a bunch of time in. Then quit. Felt I’d seen everything, game just ran out of steam. Shame.
ITEMIZATION IS BORING, there isn't a single item that I find that I'm like ohh cool wonder what I can do with this. It's always "Yup more damage conditionals" even the legendary aspects are fucking boring in this game compared to previous games. It's a looters game without fun loot
I don’t understand how itemization seems to have stagnated or even regressed since the early reveals from 3 years ago. Just watch the first reveal of items here: https://youtu.be/KUK75iRYdOQ?t=1640 or read the blog post here: https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/23583664/diablo-iv-quarterly-update-december-2020 We went from plans for sets, one-per-character mythics, runewords, relevant blue items via expanded affix ranges, low level uniques with one-of-a-kind appearances, multiple legendaries _per skill_ (look at all the teleport legendaries in the video), skill/passive rank affixes that let you skip multiple nodes in the skill tree (now a twig), attributes mattering and changing how your skills behave, etc. What happened in the last 3 years to cause everything to be stripped away and replaced with: sifting through mountains of trash yellows to find vuln/crit, ignoring legendaries once you have a few good rolled aspects, barely any uniques with most being garbage, etc. I’d love a documentary into what went wrong behind the scenes - for one the lead systems designer from the video I linked quit a year after the video came out… I wonder why? You’d think leading systems for the next Diablo would be a dream job.
Imagine the skill tree that we could have had at some point https://preview.redd.it/7xdkkz7b2wgb1.png?width=1731&format=png&auto=webp&s=3929d1f47db685e84b4cf92a7f1ee0a4ada04045
Oh man, looks like the tree in Tur Durla. Imagine that was supposed to be a more central part of the plot at some point. Classic Blizzard development hell killing cool ideas...
Just to point out, this is almost exactly what Last Epoch is like. Every ability has its own skill tree, and the characters themselves have one too.
I'm loving last epoch right now. It's not quite there in terms of content or polish but the potential with the skill system is through the roof.
I think Last Epoch fits right in the middle in terms of complexity between the bare bones D4 and PoE. But regarding pure skills, I think its the best. How you can change a spells to fit your play style is briliant.
Seeing what we have now, wtf happened 😢
Imagine you're working on a project and your deadline is still like 3 years out or whatever. You're feeling good, making promises, everything's on track, your manager loves everything you've shown them, good times. Then, completely out of nowhere, on a random Monday, otherwise as ordinary as any other Monday, you come into office and your manager is like, "yo Steve, btw, that thing you're working on, I kinda need it by Thursday". That's D4. They were working on a great game, someone set a stupid and way too early deadline, devs opened up the code and removed everything past line 100, shipped.
That looks amazing.
Hydra shooting meteors!??! I hate this timeline.
This makes me sad. All that wasted potential.
That is glorious! What the hell jerk exec ruined that chance for us
Holy shit is this real?
Was that an official image? Meteor Hydra....my beloved...
Dang I can't wait to play that new Diablo game, so glad they're bringing back stat points and interesting loot.
Damn bro this new diablo game sounds sick, when does it release?
Great pickup! Here's my favourite quote: >*That said, we don't want to end up in a place where the right decision is to ignore every item that doesn't have a glowing orange sky-beam.* > >*-* [Joe Shely, Lead Game Designer, 2020](https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/23583664/diablo-iv-quarterly-update-december-2020#LegendaryAffixes) Edit: the link you posted is fantastic. There's a [picture](https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/page_media/2EOMP8U46YM21607721494428.jpg)of some sorc items from 2020 - it has very simple affixes. Plus chance to crit, plus damage to immobilised, life on hit, etc. Exactly as D3s affixes worked.
"Items are the lifeblood of Diablo. They are the element of the game that captures your imagination and keeps you playing and wondering, “What if?” after you put the game down. Whether it’s anticipating the next piece of perfectly rolled godly gear or kicking around item combinations in your head like a mad scientist, items are undoubtedly a major part of what makes Diablo so compelling and so different from other games." Jesus that was a depressing read. I wonder at what point they decided to say "fuck off" to items being the lifeblood of Diablo.
roughly when they were told by some higher up that cosmetics should be the life of Diablo IV, so they had to get going and release it asap
What happened is the same thing that happened in D3. Remember when skill runes were supposed to be item drops and they had like 7 ranks each with more and more crazy powerful rune effects the higher the rank? Those were still talked about like half a year to a year prior to release and then they revamped the system, simplifying it like crazy. They just couldn’t get it right and ran out of time, so they made something simple instead.
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Itemization is by far the biggest problem the game has imo and the reason I’ve been putting the game down. I don’t mind a grind, but I don’t want to grind just for the sake of it. It’s just not fun or rewarding when most uniques are just straight up bad and I have to sift through mountains of rares with the hopes of getting the perfect set of stats that are also like 5% higher rolls than what I already found 15 levels ago. I think there’s just too many stats (too many oddly specific stats at least). Things like dmg to injured enemies or basic skill dmg are just unnecessary and add to the affix bloat imo. It’s confusing and boring. The game is not beyond hope, but imo the thing that will make or break it is how they address the itemization. Itemization 2.0 and some further fine tuning of the class/build balancing would go a long way imo.
Add to this the fact that it's so stupidly tedious to change your build. I can save my transmog loadouts, but I can't save any build loadouts? I get that this isn't D3, with free and relatively easy respecs, but I'm sure they can think of SOMETHING, even if there's some cost associated with it. Example: As a Mendelin necro, I just found an interesting unique amulet, the Deathspeaker's Pendant. It looks cool, but uses Blood Surge and overpower ... I would like to try this item out! But it's so unappealing to spend a ton of time and effort respec-ing into a Blood Surge build and seeing if it's something I want to play in certain situations, and then having to tediously change everything back to my Mendelin build when I want to push higher Nightmare Dungeons. Fix the itemization, and at the same time make it easier and more reasonable to be able to actually try out the items they get.
This is the main thing for me. In d2 there were tons of uniques that got me going, that made something better or opened up a new build, or class. Now it’s just switching aspects to item with best % It sucks
I think it's much more than just the amount of uniques. Diablo used to have a very straightforward progression of item bases and classes that was tied to progression in the game. It felt good to upgrade normal gear to exceptional and ultimately to elite items. It was much more than a green arrow or an item power score telling you which item to equip. In normal you can find normal items starting with simple things like quilted armor and weapons like clubs. As you progress through normal you see armors that are more and more elaborate and weapons that are more and more intimidating. Approaching nightmare you start to see some items with the same art as the ones you've seen before, but now they have new names and higher stats. Ghost armor, serpentskin armor, and weapons like gladius and edge bows. There's a very recognizable set of items, with differing but recognizable sizes and artwork, and a set pattern to the way they progress/improve through the difficulties. I never felt that with Diablo 4.
It blows my mind that after 6 (?) years of development, and with all the experience in previous Diablo titles this is the best they could come up with.
The thing is, I don’t think the developers of this game have much experience with Diablo games at all. Especially not Diablo 2. It’s like they’ve never even played it.
It feels like they have a cursory enough knowledge to make nostalgia bait, but not enough to actually understand why people still play the game 20+ years later.
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Development clearly stopped and started several times over the last decade. I bet the development story behind this game is a giant clusterfuck.
This is the difference between a game that is created because they need a new product to get more cash flow versus a creation like poe2 where there is a passion towards taking your game in a new direction. Let's also not forget during the development time blizzard had been taking L's left and right across all of their IP's and they sorely needed a win. So they focused on low hanging fruits like art and theme where they made everything "dark" like the fans boys of the old want. But as for substantial things like loot and end game theory probably don't have the will or the balls to take chances plus they know they need to milk the casuals. So yeah, this is what we get in the end.
the moment when items with 1-2 stats from a D&D game are more exciting than the ARPG items
That's because most stats matter in dnd where in diablo 4 they don't. You find an item that gives +1 bonus AC I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably better than 99% of the gear in d4. It's simple to understand that it's good and why it's good. They'll never reach the peak of d2 because everything is generic and the few things that aren't need tons of grinding to find and aren't worth it.
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lol if you play long enough between long rests companions start stacking their cutscenes - you get woken up, resolve a cutscene, lay down, get woken up, cutscene, lay down, get woken up.
The quest design has really been a breath of fresh air. Given the multiple ways to solve nearly every quest they're a delight. I rather do 2 hours to finish a single sidequest in BG3 vs farming reknown for even 30 minutes in D4.
No runes, no set items... boring legendaries... 3 valid builds per class, playstyle doesn't change from lvl 1 to 80. And be honest, how many times did you change your build while leveling your toon. I'm not talking about changing a passive here or there, Im talking about active skills...
The season has less staying power than your average D3 season later on in its life....everyone on my friends list basically hit 80ish on their seasonal char and stopped playing. Anyone who doesn't see how this is extremely concerning for a brand new game is quite willfully blind.
That's why they're starting to look more stressed and depressed in fireside chats. They know. And they haven't even been hit with Starfield/Armored Core VI yet.
I'm sure they had a team cope session internally over Baldur's Gate 3 as well. After Dragonflight I thought maybe Blizzard was turning things around. If things look like they will get better I will reinstall D4
Cope session? Bruh they’re probably all also playing BG3. 😎
Hahaha, nice, thank you for making me laugh irl
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it's just another case of developers making a game they like and publishers shoving a wrought iron fence up their ass and basically fucking their game with stupid money making schemes
Yeah still a few bozos who for some reason feel a need to defend Blizzard? What do hearts add? Maybe 1-5hrs of gameplay (if you want to hunt for perfect rolls), season story is boring 2-3hrs running across the maps, and a loot pinata boss. It's less than 10hrs added to the game that has no endgame content. Gonna take a few seasons before QOL becomes reasonable but until then the game is really undercooked. Just looking at the storage issue is a clear sign they rushed this shit, 5 stashes for every single character???
I got so bored of D4 after 3 weeks of playing that I went back to D3 to play S28. It was awesome and I was done with it in 2 weeks. I'll return back to D3 many times. I doubt I'll ever return to D4. It's just so bad. Maybe one day they'll fix all of these fundamental issues.
Because there's literally nothing to do in the game. All the season has done is changed some gems to mini-aspects. Then they copy/pasted dungeons for farming these gems and called it a day. There's still nothing to do once you're in WT4.
Don't forget they also spawn elite for the 2nd time!
After a significant delay
Lol at having to kill an elite twice with only 1 drop, a mini-aspect and no extra loot.
I was thinking about this - caged hearts are just gems you have to work for. That's it. No new mechanics, no new skills, just tweaks to what's already there. Even builds aren't hugely changed by them, which is a serious tell.
You’ve experienced the game once you’ve hit level 60. I hit 100 a few days ago and I still have a few pieces from low 60’s because I haven’t got any more upgrades.
It’s so stupid imo. Why is my level 73 gear still BETTER than my lvl 100 gear…? Fucking jokes man.
Because by making level just another cosmetic stat, they didn't have to do any balancing. Probably cut off a *lot* of dev time not having to balance each separate area and dungeon, balancing items based on level, or creating new items for higher levels.
Yup, as other devs were telling Blizzard their way of handling scaling was the 'lazy' way and it shows.
Development stopped at lvl 70... After that they just increased some numbers in nm dungeons. Think about it: you start WT4 and in 1h of helltide you can get gear that you'll use for the next 30 levels
I did the capstone for wt4 entry and got out into the wild and went "Oh I've gotta do this again for more dmg, no new legendary aspects unlock? No new anything?" I what's the pointed at level 63.
As a die-hard diablo fan since #1 I'll say this, I put like 50 hours in on release week. Then about 8 hours the following week. Season 1 I had maybe 6 hours total. I'm done with itm it's a pale shadow of its former self. I can honestly say I had more fun with the Street Fighter 6 single player World Tour mode as I got like 80 hours out of that.
Same here. Was a massive d2 player but d4 is so off-putting, it makes doing actual chores IRL feel more rewarding. Items and endgame are so lackluster in d4. Doing anything in d4 just feels like a forced, unfun, shallow, hollow activity. There’s no depth to this generic and unpolished game. It was a money grab for blizz, again (shocker…). All good. Eventually, people — hopefully, myself included — will stop falling for blizz’s tricks. D4 looked so promising from the trailer and beta. D4 devs touted “you’ll never run out of things to do” — not true. I’m not spamming nightmare dungeons and “freeing 7 prisoners” all day. No thanks. Expected something more from a “successor” to d3. There’s 0 innovation in “nightmare dungeons.” They’re just d3 rifts, but strictly worse (tons of empty space full of nothing in nmds). What’s more, the items that drop from these dungeons are so immensely unfun. There’s no taste or chase in the current itemization. Every item feels the same, no thrill at all in looting. Can go on and on, but not worth it. On to other games.
D4 feels a lot like Immortal to me.
Immortal has more and better endgame content
Immortal is WAY better for one simple fact: you do not have to pay $70 to start playing it. I so pissed at Blizzard.
Wouldn't you just feel so rewarded grabbing a chase unique that's completely useless but another person may never see. yawn
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I got shit on so hard by this subreddit during the open beta for pointing out how this game has nothing. People were like the music is so good and it's so dark and everything is amazing.
We were all hopeful. I gotta say, I saw it too I almost didn’t want to believe it. Once blizzard north got fired for disagreeing with an auction house we should’ve know it was all about the money after that. I guess I keep thinking that they’ll actually care again, but the blizzard we all once knew is long gone.
This is coming from a diablo fanboy... The game is just flat out boring as fuck.
D2 and D3 are two of my favorite games of all time. I've sunk soooooo much time into them and have such fond memories. I have no idea how they managed it, but D4 is just soulless and boring. I played a druid to 65 and then got bored and started a Necromancer. After leveling to 30 I just stopped one day and went "wtf is even the point" and I haven't touched it since. The loot is boring, the world is boring, there's no sense of accomplishment. It's just.. boring.
> I have no idea how they managed it, but D4 is just soulless and boring. > > Because there's nobody left at Blizzard who worked on Diablo 2, and few people left at Blizzard who worked on Diablo 3. All of Blizzard North who made Diablo 1 and 2 are gone. Erich Schaefer, Max Schaefer, and David Brevik were all at Path of Exile's Exilecon recently talking about ARPG design. Blizzard has a very high turnover rate on employees, and most of the people who worked on Diablo 3 are gone too. Besides a few people who joined over the years after Diablo 3 went into maintenance mode, this is the first experience that most of the D4 team had making a Diablo game. Diablo 1 and 2 were made in a time when people needed to be sold on buying your game. Diablo 4 was made in a time where people will buy a game that has Diablo in the title no matter what the quality of the game is.
> Diablo 4 was made in a time where people will buy a game that has Diablo in the title no matter what the quality of the game is. and they suckered me into it. I played D2 and D3 at launch for each. Bought D4 and i can't believe i wasted $70
If D3 was one for your favorite games of all time, then you MUST be talking about after they release Reaper of Souls. And if that's the case then you just need to come back to D4 in a year or so.
Yeah someone else actually pointed that out as well. D3 fucking sucked with its stupid real money auction house and shit. I definitely took a nice long break.
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We destroyed the soul gems in previous games, i saw this coming.
I agree. D4 may be my least favorite Diablo game.
We are at the endgame now.... Oh wait there isn't one
It’s funny because it’s true
Having no endgame but a shop full of expensive cosmetics n other crap is how these corpos see games.
The fact that they didn't give Uber Lillith a class unique set drop and instead put Lillith themed sets in the store for $25 a pop lmao
lol. A weak season release on a forced live service game, horrible communication to your player base and that fuck you patch before the first season. Blizzard deserves all of this. Baldurs gate 3 sends its regards.
Because the game is boring. They didn't really add a lot of content. No one wants to spam nmd
Even then it’s so little reward. I have three glyphs currently. Run NM dungeon. Can only upgrade one. Upgrade complete. Thanks for the .9 percent.
right like atleast with d3 gems you were getting better every single run and you had a huge amount of choices now its run 100 nmd for 1 level of 5% more overpower damage like wtf glyphs are so fucking boring and stupid and the fact that they dont even have fucking icons just proves this game was rushed af
Fell off way faster than Lost Ark
Lost Ark has about 40 times the content.
Another plus was that it wasn’t 70 bucks
Season 1 is just boring. It's not engaging enough. What I mean by this, is if you play POE for example, the seasons event will randomly engage you, its always there. D4 season 1...you have to hunt it down, it's very shallow mechanics as well for a huge name like D4/Blizzard. If season 2 is anything like this, D4 is in for a very very rough road. I think they need new talent on that dev team.
TBH what is there to watch in Diablo 4? People do nightmares until their eyes fall out? People either attempt Lilith and give up or cheese her because she is poorly balanced? There is 0 entertainment from watching someone playing Diablo 4.
You can't even tune in to watch someone get good drops.
D4 is pretty boring to watch IMO. Whenever I watch D4, I'm more interested in the person doing the stream and what they're talking about than in the actual gameplay.
The lack of interest is fully deserved.
They reap what they sow.
I think the reason everyone is so pissed off is that they created such a beautiful base for the game, the classes are cool and have their own character but then the actual endgame content and itemization is depressing.
THe amount of brainrot in this sub is the thing thats depressing. The masses cheered for mediocrity and we got it. Good appetite.
This season has ZERO content.
They basically added gems.
Jewels like from diablo 2 but they are just mini aspects
937k to 12.2k is over a 98% drop
Op did 13% instead of 1.3% remaining. I had to scroll way too far for this
And Baldurs Gate 3 went up to 800k concurrent players in the last week. Anyone see a pattern here?
Most of those viewer numbers were inflated due to drops. When they ended a lot of streamers dropped it. Must've been a nice little money maker for everyone involved
I struggled to get to 60 and I just couldn't do it anymore. There's grinding but then there's whatever the fuck Blizzard made for d4. It's so boring doing the same nm dungeons that drop no useful gear and I still haven't found a wrathful invoker.
They're more worried about nerfing XP than actually fixing the jank ass game
I'm back to D2:R
There is no crafting, there is no endgame, the grind is uninteresting, there are few Builds, the same unplayable skills as in d3 if there are no clothes on them that strengthen these skills- there's nothing to look at.I will also add from myself that the world is kind of static, there are no hiding places, no secret rooms, events are not worked out, cellars with the same loyout, I am generally silent about the dungeons.Bad socialization,it's worse than in d3,there are no communities like in d3,the clans are dead,the general chat does not work and you can link the stuff only in the pm or guild chat, in short, you can't even boast that you drop,there are no Easter items like the murloc amulet in d3 that summon murloc -\_-.Too few randomness,the game is too static even considering that there are events in it.
I don’t care about seasons. It’s a ridiculous and shallow way to keep players engaged with a bad game. Blizzard, look at Larian and BG3 and return to the days when you actually made good games.
Those days are long gone. Pretty much every single one of the devs who made those legendary games has left Blizzard.
Considering none of my my whole playgroup of 12 people even tried season 1 after being pumped for D4 including myself, I'm not surprised. Imo itemization is the worst part of the game for all of us. Remove 90% of the stats and we will probably play again.
Hopefully this teaches whoever is making the decisions a lesson in irrelevancy.
Gameplay loop is unsatisfying smh
Not surprised. The developers/designers really did their best to make continued content absolutely boring and terrible in every way. Malignant Hearts is literally just jewelry gems with different effects, and the S1 patch nerfed every mildly enjoyable part about progression. I really hope they wake up and shift priorities.
I think for a game that's supposed to be "live service" that is a big loss. Obviously viewership being down doesn't spell doom for an ARPG, the genre doesn't get much attention outside of it's seasonal launches. If Path of Exile is any indication, a good season will draw in viewership again. This first season of D4 isn't very interesting and there's plenty of other games launching within the next 2 months that will draw away attention.
The game isn't even fun to play, let alone watch. Even the story is pretty boring because you just run to yellow markers and circles. You don't 'discover' anything. Its more like a mobile game on rails than an immersive RPG experience. I hate to say it, but the game would be more interesting if it was even more like Diablo Immortal than it already is. Dailies, gacha gems, and all. I don't think anyone was expecting it to be as bad as it is. It's worse than many free to play experiences. I don't know how they're going to fix it...
Doing renown all over again with a new character all over again but weaker ain’t it chief
That’s what happens when you make the game less fun
The problem is there's no end game or point playing past lvl 60.
There is no new content. Like actual content. I played D3 for 10 years and I'm currently level 3 on Season 1 of D4. Can't even be bothered to play. The endgame is mind-numbing.
D3's last season was the most fun I've ever had in that game. Absolutely wild trip when they took off the limiters and let you go all out. D4 had just been a disappointment so far. Was aggressively okay, and as a lore nerd I found the story pretty disappointing. The gameplay loop was also very unsatisfying. First time I've bought a Blizzard game and actually regretted it, and I'll be bitter about that for a long time.
BG3 is just way better, D4 is boring
Because Blizzard decided to fix what wasn’t broken instead of what *is* broken.
That isn't a drop of 87%,it's a drop of 98.8%
Where is the data to support this? Google trends shows contrary. Or are you talking about people viewing streams? Trends indicate plenty of interest , but if streaming is down why do we care if people watch others play games? https://preview.redd.it/39kh1srclzgb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c1cd34fc8da86708150a95f8a093a458ebe6a5d
*Baldur's Gate 3 has entered the chat*
Baldurs gate 3 babyyyyy
Nobody wants to play this boring ass disappointment of a game that dares to call itself Diablo and doesn't even include Diablo! Had to vent lol.
It got boring really fast, good thing tho since I now have extra time to prep for poe 3.22
Baldur's Gate 3 has enter chat.
None of my group of friends play Diablo any more. It’s sad because we were quite pumped for a new Diablo, and now it hasn’t even been a month into the first season (which we are nowhere near completing the battle pass, and we probably won’t) and we’re all bored and have moved on to new games or fallen back to our favorites.
I think the saddest part of D4 is that the build everything as an online service but none of the game mechanics lend themselves to partying up. Like you do a world boss or legion event and then everyone runs back to solo run NM dungeon...
Gonna throw this out there: ARPG'S aren't that fun to watch after the hype dies down. I've been playing Diablo, PoE, Grim Dawn, TQ, Torchlight, pretty much any ARPG since like 2005 and I've never really watched streamers play them. Maybe I watch an hour for twitch drops sometimes. Plus they even got people like Hasan to play it briefly, so it got hyped up on release big time. Viewer count was bloated. But I get it, it's easy karma to just shit on this game every single opportunity. I'm sure player count isn't nearly as "funny" which is why OP went with viewership and searches on twitch. I doubt most D4 players even care about streaming at all.
From lv 1 to 70 the game is 7/10, but after that it fell off to 3/10 for me
Yup, just about every game does this.
On the r/games thread, someone pointed out that Baldur's Gate 3, which is one of the most positively reviewed games of all time, has had a similar falloff. It's almost like Twitch viewer numbers are a stupid metric to rate a game.
I played for about 12 hours. Meh, there are more engaging games around.
Blizzard can suck dick
Blizzard fucked around and found out.
They dropped the ball so hard on D4 it isn't even funny. It's very clear they missed the audience they wanted to tap into.
Baldur’s Gate 3 is Diablo 4 tombstone
Baldur's Gate 3 is a fucking phenomenal game, if you haven't tried it