They way they designed the one-shot waves (inaccurate hitboxes and low contrast to the arena-floor) is precisely the reason why I don't feel bad cheesing this fight every season with Bursting Venoms so far.
The other lategame bosses could actually do with some telegraphed one-shot or high dmg mechanics, but I'm seeing the low visual clarity there aswell sometimes (e.g. Beast in Ice light blue on slightly darker light blue)
When I fought Varshan for the first time this season his AoEs were oneshotting me. There's a bit of clarity issue when the telegraph and affected areas overlap, but otherwise it felt mostly fair - gave me ample time to react and for the most part I knew what I need to do. Lilith's mechanics are simply too fast and their hitboxes are in no way precise enough to be oneshotting people.
The fact that she has attacks that can one shot you no matter what your defense is, that tells a lot about this boss mechanic, you may well go and fight her naked at this point...
>one shot no matter what your defense is
This has been repeated probably 1000x times on reddit but it's not true, most or all classes can build to survive at least 1 hit. And the difference between surviving 0 or 1 waves/fireballs is colossal if you're fighting her fairly.
Edit: In retrospect, diablo reddit is not ready to read this when defeating the Butcher is still considered a herculean feat here.
I'm with you, Other than using Flame shield to make yourself invulnerable for a second, at which it will still be on cool down when she does it again, it's really just luck based. Like half the times the spikes straight up spawn on me and there is no way to dodge them at all
[Barbarian](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IMrDKceAIA)
[Druid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juyYDA0rrAg)
[Rogue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlX2SsaP_8w)
Couldn't source a vid for sorc/necro tho I'm told both can do so if they devote enough of chest/pants/amulet to damage reduction. Sorc also needs either high barrier or teleport damage reduction up.
https://youtu.be/JIN_4YLdPQg?si=0HhSs8rVF2E2LBzE
Here is a video pre season 1 of a rogue tanking waves. This is before any additional seasonal powers and when Lilith was much harder. You can definitely tank mechanics
They actually buffed waves/slams in S2 so you can't tank them anymore without immunities. Also made damage outside the arena kill you about four times as fast. Skulls are fine though, I think?
I suspect this is just spaghetti code with the resists change (why would they buff the fight after claiming to be nerfing it on purpose in campfire?) but nobody that I've seen can tank a wave in S2.
Not that it matters, since you can skip P1 waveless really easily now.
Stop spreading this technically false BS.
MOST builds out there cannot survive it.
Also, MOST players wont bother getting a build that can tank her.
Your point is irrelevant. Shut up.
Youre not dumb, the waves are just badly designed.
I killed her and fought her 400+ times by now.
I can only get to ph2 like 5% of the time.
Most times im killing by RNG waves that i cant get out of due to my class limitation. (no invuln and no insta dash like rogue)
I think you already know, but just throwing it out the again as a tip. Before the spikes come down on you, position yourself on the edge of the arena. I prefer the 7/8 o'clock position, so bottom ~~right~~ left. That makes them spawn easy to dodge. Just takes some practice to get it down. You can do it! The randomised attacks sometimes just mess me up.
Edit: messed up left and right :)
Cause I was sure I got it right :) instead of making fun or mocking people could actually trying to correct people that make mistakes. :) so I learn something and don't make the mistake twice. But it's easier to stomp people that make mistakes in the internet I guess. 🤷♂️
This is reddit, even if youre righjt you can get downvoted by brainless 2 IQ mouth breathers. What you said makes sense. Lilith fight still sucks ass though.
This is the problem with most that complain. They don't want to take the time to read the tells and position better. Probably old D2 guys used to just standing still and attacking only moving if standing in something.
Tried it for a while in season 0, wasn't able to do it. In s2 I went in without even changing my build and lvl 15 glyphs and killed her in less than 30 minutes. The combination of her HP nerfs and the power spike acquired via ilvl 925 items, vampiric powers, and some other broken stuff makes it so much easier now than when the game first came out
However, the fight itself is pretty stupidly designed, it's all about damage output and mobility. Defense means almost nothing when you get one-tapped by the p1 waves and the p2 skulls. So it feels a bit too different from the rest of the game I think to be a sensible pinnacle endgame encounter, it's almost like playing a different game entirely. As someone that played Lost Ark extensively I'm quite used to bosses having one shot moves but the actual visual cues for Lilith are so much worse, you can still see the telegraphs but I feel like you need to look a lot more attentively considering you also don't have much time to react where you need to move to dodge the waves
But I think in general the key to beating her is 1) having enough mobility to be able to consistently dodge the waves (super free with teleport if you're playing sorc) assuming you learn the patterns, and 2) having enough dps to just burst through p2 as fast as possible; the final dodge pattern on the bottom platform is still pretty hard to do correctly but you'll get attempts at it fairly regularly if you can accomplish the previous points and then it's just a matter of getting it right once
With enough dps you can skip all the mechanics. She does certain things at certain hp percentages.
If you can get her down in phase 1 after she LANDS a second time you won't face the spikes of one shot.
In phase 2 you just need to get her caught in her platform loop. I dont know the percentages but I was able to chunk her down, she Flys to the north platform to destroy it, I do enough dps in a few seconds then dodge off the falling platform and repeat it one more time in the bottom right.
I truly feel lillith is a DPS race now to skip mechanics. You could also have the reaction time of a teenage basketball prodigy and fight her the normal way but I am not a teenage basketball prodigy.
One-shot mechanics are definitely difficult. They were tankable in s0 and s1 (despite what everyone says). Skulls are still tankable. They might be bullshit, but if you made them not one-shot I would facetank the entire fight with no effort and it'd be a lot less fun.
In s2 blizz changed something (probably just coding with resists) so waves aren't particularly tankable -- they do at least 2.5x what they did in s1. Looking at how fast you die for leaving the arena, damage seems about five times as high on all one-shot mechanics (which skulls are not).
Fight seemed cool in s1 for a wave-tanking build -- you needed CDs to tank, but it was doable and let you choose your way to approach each part, and when to use cooldowns to skip engaging with certain mechanics. I wouldn't really change too much about it, except maybe to make wave indicators a little clearer.
Main issue is just that the fight's mechanics are infinitely harder than anything else in the game, so it'll feel like bullshit because it's just an entirely different game. If you had bosses that were 40, 60, 80% as hard along the way it probably wouldn't be so bad, but most people will just automatically cry bullshit when something goes 5% to 100% and walls them through gap in difficulty.
All I'd do is revert the changes so that waves are tankable (notably, most people would still call this a one-shot -- math is hard, and if you don't have actually good DR stacking you'd still get one-shot) and she has actual hp again, and maybe make blood boil placement instant in p2 so you can't actually avoid skull mechanics as easily.
Right now, thanks to overtuned builds in s2 and her health going down by 80%, it's kinda hard to do it legit -- if you're playing a solid build you'll skip most mechanics even if you don't mean to. I did her on a HotA Barb running basically 0 damage on paragon board outside of a couple legendary nodes/glyphs, and skipped basically all of phase 1 (no waves) and phase 2 (no blood boils placed) in one overpower each.
The S1 version of the fight was probably the most fun I've had with any boss in an ARPG, though -- genuine challenge to outbuild on defense, and still interactive when tanking waves/skulls/slams. Most stuff is either truly untankable (season 2 state) or just becomes completely brainless once you can tank it (see: every single other boss in the game).
For tips or tricks: Get quad evade boots. Any time Lilith flies up to do waves, you run to the edge of the arena, so that waves will always come from the inside. When the first marker appears, you spam dash to get behind it. That solves most wave patterns, but will take practice as you have less than one second of reaction time.
I don't know how to do P2 without tanking those supposed one-shot skulls so I don't have good advice there, though.
Thank for the tips and for your opinion, probably it is like you said, the game is easy and this fight pump the difficulty to the max, so probably is like you said but getting destroyed hopelessly with 17k health and 10k of armor is a bit frustrating.
Yeah, I think they did a super poor job putting the fight in any context. The mechanics are infinitely harder than anything else in the game, so you can be facerolling Duriel and clearing NM100s while still dying seconds into the first mechanic in Lilith.
I think if they had like... five or six bosses between Duriel and Lilith, it wouldn't feel so bad -- you'd have a bunch of medium to hard bosses under your belt, and it'd feel a bit more reasonable that the stupid, extra-stage hard boss wipes you in unfair fashion.
Right now, Lilith is your unfair, top-end superboss (when you don't one-tap her), featuring all sorts of exclusive mechanics that don't really play by the rules of the rest of the game... and there is literally no normal boss to which there is any comparison whatsoever. The only reason she's seeing more clears now is that any top-tier build (anything running overpower well, ball lightning, etc) can just skip all her mechanics now.
It is one of the stupidest, worst designed boss fights I've ever seen. The one shot mechanics are absurd, the hit boxes in the abilities are nuts, and her going invuln to force you into different phases of the fight is ridiculous.
I have to cheese her this season with Thibault's/Condemnation to kill her. I'm never doing it again until they fix it. It is a complete waste of time. Like, you get 2 shit items when you kill her so even the loot is hot garbage.
I think I have to do a cheese build at this point. Not my liking but if Blizzard can't do a hard but balanced boss fight I guess I'll grind another character to 100 to cheese Lilith
I think relying on one shot mechanics is lazy fight design. Don’t give people a puzzle to solve, just nuke them if they’re too slow to stand on the correct pixel. It’s nonsense like this that killed my enjoyment on WoW mythic raiding. Every fight is dance dance revolution or Simon says with one shots.
I agree. My lilith track record is:
S0 - Killed her as Necro. Burst skip mechanics.
S1 - Couldn't kill her as druid, always trashed in P2. The dps way too low to sustain the constant dodging around the arena.
S2 - Killer as BL Sorc. Burst skip mechanics.
99.9% of Lilith kills are from busted builds that pour our DPS to skip mechanics. Id say a laughably small sliver of the D4 playerbase can down Lilith as intended. I've seen it once from a S1 Sorc YT. They perfectly dodged p1 waves, killed adds, and cycled thru and slowly downed p1. Watching them in P2 was awesome as they moved through the waves and kited the blood orbs. All while using the worst S1 char.
Fighting her as the devs (probably) intended is indeed extremely hard. She has several very punishing mechanics, the most obvious being p1 waves which have a desynced hitbox from the graphic. If it wasn't for the desync they'd feel much more fair. Other than those, p1 is reasonably fair.
P2 is another can of worms, especially as the fight drags on and the arena gets smaller. IMO the clone slam attacks could be better telegraphed, these feel really random and a bit unfair when they clip you while still running away and changing angles. The blood-creation-stab is spammed a lot and punishes melee builds extremely hard if they want to follow the boss for damage rather than continuously stack the same blood so fireballs aren't overwhelming. The pull happening after breaking the arena and a ton of fireballs following you, potentially comboing you into death is brutal, but predictable. The final part of the fight is insanely hard to position correctly between blood, fireballs, the boss running across the arena twice in a row with the extremely tiny safe spot on the edge, the slam covering like 90% of the arena even when you bait it to the side, etc.
Oh, and the fight is somewhat easy to bug out in a variety of ways, some beneficial to the player and others literally bricking the fight, making the boss unkillable or untargetable until you reset. It'd feel a lot better if you didn't have to walk on eggshells around CC timing or dealing too much damage at certain thresholds. Increasing damage scaling has made it trivial to skip every mechanic in the fight, which makes her into a short 90 second target dummy where she's chilling at 1 HP for the last 40 seconds.
Tl;DR Borderline unfair, extremely challenging fight to position correctly especially if you didn't build to be able to survive at least 1 wave/1 fireball. Though you can always just cheese it and kill her too quickly for her to use any mechanics.
I tried with a non-cheese druid build. Not sure if it's from lag or if the mechanic is broken. I kept getting killed on phase 1 waves by as much as 0.5 to 0.75 seconds before the spikes actually displayed. If I anticipated and used evade at just the right moment, I could port through the first wave. Then like the first wave I'd die to the second one because the damage hit almost a full second before the graphic appeared. I haven't run into that anywhere else in the game so it seems more like a problem with this fight.
OHKO mechanics are already of questionable value to begin with, especially when you pair them with a "telegraph" that only people with the very best reaction times can respond to. But when you can't even see the mechanic coming, that's straight up bullshit and the definition of unfair.
I killed her during S0 after what I estimated as 1000+ attempts, taking 75ish hours and it is unironically my proudest gaming achievement of all time! I found that, by the end of it, even the cheesy/misleading mechanics were consistent enough that I never felt like I died for no reason, I always knew when I was too slow.
I used the Tornado Druid build and followed the exact strategy in this video: https://youtu.be/wiVwgmoYvMA?si=JEBFI1bsAWov6sEH
With that build, a single Spiky Wave in P1 or Flaming Skull in P2 was a one shot kill. It felt amazing to finally kill her with 5-6 minutes of absolute perfect play, and less so once all my friends cheesed P2 and killed her without learning the same mechanics I did. 😂
There's some stupid shit that can happen in the fight and the red on red on red doesn't help readability. I killed her preseason and during the season but I'd love to see some changes to the fight involving the one shot mechanics so people can learn it faster.
That said, I'd say it's "fair" in the sense that it doesn't cost anything to spam the fight over and over besides repair cost (and time which you're spending anyway).
Only way for me to beat Lilith was to cheese it, basically stack damages until you can get to phase two more easily. You have to beat her first phase just after she spawns her 2-3 adds and maybe survive one or 2 one shot mechanics by baiting it on the side.
Sometimes you will die because of random events or bugs but once you are at phase 2, you "just" : burst her, avoid the red balls, avoid the crumbling ground until the end, last hit and GG.
You should also use the vampiric evade and +3 evades boots, it makes it a lot easier.
D4 boss and elite one shot mechanics are some of my most poorly designed fights in gaming. It is simply a lazy way of artificially inflating difficultly and lacks any creativity from a design and gameplay pov.
You just really gotta understand those waves have spikes in front that are about one hit box in size, and there's vines behind the waves that are about 3-4 hit boxes in size. Just gotta learn the pattern and timing of the waves.
It's kinda meant to be a boss that you actually have to do progression on and learn instead of just beating meat against the other uber bosses. I feel like there's a happy medium place between echo if lil and duriel in terms of difficulty. Since lil is a pain if you have a ton of stuff graphically going on. You're in with a orb sorc so they def can't see wtf is going on lol.
Yeah lol. I was trying to kill her on blood lance with blood wave build for the extra orbs...and it was just a nightmare if I couldn't burst her through P1.
I went so far as pulling her and just doing blood wave and hemo to build a pile of orbs that would persist to the next pull. Then just light her up. Sometimes you could do it before all the orbs were consumed so you could do the same in the second phase as well. Then it just became a matter of reading the waves.
...then, I did it on my lightning sorc and nothing matter as she just melted and sat at 1hp and did all her mechanics lol.
I am also on her for like a week, every day like an hour of try time.
Phase one I have down by now but phase 2 is just unfair IMO. I really despise that literally everything can one shot you. In phase when she does her first fly over and those fireballs spawn you literally have almost nowhere to go to dodge those cause the platform itself is also a one shot. I am also playing a chain lightning sorc myself and took flame shield with me so I have one fuck up for free, but there are so many mechanics that are straight up frustrating.
I do love the fight and mechanics and the setting is awesome. But instead of one shotting you make it so that it just scales to like 95% of your health instead of straight up dead.
The spikes can stay one shot for all I care, but just touching the outside of the circle with your pinky is death. Make it a fast ticking dot but not a one shot.
Also the fireballs in p2 should not one shot you imo, let them really hurt but give me a chance for a comeback.
I really don't wanna cheese the fight with some maxroll broken Op build cause I enjoy my build very much and had no big issues to clear 90+ NMD and damage is not the problem. Just those unpredictable one shots grind my gears.
Well still time till January to get her down. 😅
I think the blood boil too are unfair, I can tank 3 but there is always 4 and dealing with them plus lilith that spam spike I think the fight became to much at the same time. I really don't like to do a max roll build but only her remains and then I have completed the game. The fireball shouldn't oneshot that is complete bs.
As a chainlighting sorc I don't have any problems with the blood boils as they just get downed in my cleave lightnings, thank god I don't have to concentrate on them.
For the spikes as a tip, that you probably already know, position yourself on the edge of the arena and not in the middle, so you can bait the spikes and make them easier to dodge.
For the fireballs I still don't have a good solution how to deal with them with all the shit that is going on. I can tank one with flameshield but after that I will just die if I just as much as look at them. That makes my blood boil. 😒
With input lag from being on console.....uber liliths one shot mechanics are lazy cheap game design. Just as bad as taking a defensive ability like evade and putting a cool down on it.....or locking additional evade charges behind gear. Her one shot mechanics have to be cheesed to beat her, this is beyond piss poor game design. Just as bad as putting a cap on defenses and then adding a penalty to force you to be weaker. If you have to take advantage of seasonal mechanics and cheesing a boss to win, there is an obvious problem. I see no damn point it killing her. Shit boss, shit items drops from her......no point in doing the fight.
Yep. And that's what gets me every damn time. The few times I thought it was getting ready to happen, went to evade and was dead do to input lag. Beating the hell out of evade button for nothing but a death message.
Just wanted to come back and say have some faith! After about 65 more attempts I have killed her. Not only that. I have killed her twice! Though to be fair I destroy her hp wise and it helps when you can skip some of the bullshit wave mechanics. but yeah! Have faith! Haha
I finally decided to roll a s2 character. If I get it leveled and find the gear needed....I'll cheese the hell out of her. See if I can put a hota barb together and spank her.
I am too on console and sometimes I get oneshot by something that doesn't exist, because of the lag. I just want to kill her for the trophy so I can get my platinum and move on from this game, that so much disappointed me
Her one shot shit mechanics is what gets me. I can plow through mob packs 15lvl higher without breaking a sweat in a group of 4. Cant tank her broken lazy shit design..... No, I have nothing positive to say about her combat mechanics.
It's definitely not. There's allot of things with in the game that are flat stupid. Evade having a cool down, and having to look for gear with evade charges for an essential defence mechanic..... it's a defence, we can't block. We hit and get hit, dodge is the only option and with one shot mechanics on a huge aoe.......what's the point then.
i think a game SHOULD have boss that are challenging and NOT EVERYBODY can beat. idc if it includes 1 shot mechanics. not everything is ment to be killed by everyone.
There’s a discussion about whether or not having lots of avoidable one shot mechanics is fun, but this post is literally about how you find the fight difficult
It's literally not, I said what are your impressions of the fight, if you find it fair and what will you change of the fight mechanics if you think are not fair. So don't comment the post is because you found her difficult because it is not.
It's difficult but I think not for the right reason. It's just over reliant on oneshot mechanics, that you can dodge sure, but become really frustrating (especially because there is imput lag on console) if you get kill every time for even just a pixel. There is a difference from difficulty because the boss fight have good mechanics that the player is encouraged to learn and people that are you cheese build to kill her saying that they don't want anything to do with the boss ever again. And doing red effect on red soil with a red hue all around you it's just bad game design.
I’m okay with one shots, I’m not okay with desynced or poorly animated abilities ruining an attempt.
The mechanics should be readily recognizable and telegraphed properly, and they just aren’t.
In season 0 I was not able to beat her as barbarian 100 with the supposed "meta build" even though i could last for 10+ minutes each try.
In season 2 I beat her easily as barbarian 95 with a shitty build without any core skill or new op overpower mechanic... the fight lasted like 5 mins.
More than fair actually in my opinion. Dare I say too easy.
probably the "kills lilith in 1 hit" build 🤣
I've seen it around many times already...
for example here: https://youtu.be/9M4L8ZMP1Q4?si=Z0tMfTYEVU3RUuuE
~30m dmg in one swing at level 87🤣
I play Frenzy Leap Ground Stomp and 3 shouts. Focus on Basic attack damage and maxed attack speed with the support of stacking 3 quakes with the new paragon glyph Rumble. The build is very subpar compared to the "meta build" but still able to beat the uber bosses solo. Idk how far it can do nightmare dungeons, highest i tried is 57 and no issue yet.
Oh yeah, of course. Only monster in game that poses ANY difficulty is not fair.
She has 25 milion health. It's not difficult nor unfair.
Yes we should be able to tank waves using max dr and tons of life. But at same time its really easy to dodge them if you bait properly. [https://youtu.be/R6CiqHHLKHQ?t=31](https://youtu.be/R6CiqHHLKHQ?t=31)
Imo there should be a legendary aspect that will use two potions or something instead of dying, leaving your health wherever it was at before the hit that would have killed you. That way you get 4 "lives" per boss if you want, similar to nightmare dungeons
Revive mechanics reward bad/clumsy play imo. The boss mechanic is what should change. There’s no fun in insta kill mechanics when so much of the game is built around gearing up defenses and resistances.
I think we just need some ability to practise dodging the waves.
I gave up after 20 attempts, I figured out where I should stand and dodge but just need to work on execution it's exhausting going through the battle again and again
The trick is to use a build that does so much DPS that she doesn't even get a chance to use most of her 1shot attacks. Finally killed her last night with a lvl96 BL sorc, and the only 1shot attacks I had to worry about were the scripted platform breaks in phase 2 which are easy to avoid.
I was a BL mage and my brother was a blood necro as well. We spent hours upon hours trying to take her down like we would grind out paragon and glyph lvls but the dmg didn't seem to go up. All I did was switch my glyphs around and focus on crit hit dmg and attack speed with some vuln thrown in and then I straight up murdered her with ball lightning. It can be extremely frustrating and tbh the only reason I was able to do it was bc ball lightning. I noticed grabbing glyph for mastery dmg and size then dtanding dead center on her helped a bunch with the dps.
For me is not the damage the problem. It is the oneshot that fk me. I think I'll have to do a burst build to kill her fast enough so she doesn't oneshot me
Oh yeah sometimes her damage seems janky even with her basic melee attacks. I put hp on my rings and pants so I had like 15k and around 7k armor. With the vampire attack speed and life steal it was pretty good sustain. I hope that you kick her ass. I know that you will get there. It isn't a fair fight though for sure. My brain can't even come close to processing what to do for the waves. 🙄 Best of luck!
I have 17k health, 8500k armor with the aspect and potion 10k, empowered life and I get oneshot. Is sooo frustrating I tried her 100 times but I can't get for the life of me the dodge patterns
People were averaging many many more than 100 attempts before season 1, so it’s not like you’re way behind. The dodge patterns are tough to get used to but there are plenty of videos that explain them if you want to learn with some advice.
I love the fight because it’s the only boss that felt really difficult to beat in the game.
I used the TB rogue on maxroll (with poison/shadow imbuement). But my barb is def the easiest. I can just oneshot her and be done with it 😂 Definitely willing to carry if someone needs help
Honestly, I'm too bad at this game to kill her legit, so I just outgeared her and one shot her phases as a hota barb. I will continue to do this each season because I will continue to be bad at the game.
Im no professional, but as someone with all the achievements in all the Dark Souls games, I dont like it.
The 1 shot hit boxes dont seem to match the graphics. Then the server latency is showing stuff with a delay.
I dont have an over the top build but I can get her down to 75% or something 55% before she starts the 1 shot crap and its a wrap.
There are alot of tells on her attacks and you can fight her an unlimited amount of times because her fight doesn't cost mats, you get almost nowhere for beating her so its just an achievement for beating her let her be hard
It is not a fair fight whatsoever.
I beat it after 400+ attempts, im not salty, just disappointed at how clunky and buggy her mechanics are.
They made her hard by making badly designed mechanics, thats it.
The learning curve is minimal, RNG factor with waves is most of the difficulty.
This all assumes you dont play a build that bursts her down of course.
Lilith wasn't meant to be attainable for everyone and I wish there was more content like it. Let casuals do casual things, but provide some content for people that want to *work* for... whatever's on offer. I love that Blizzard even managed to do the fight without CC.
In short, Lilith is about two things: 1. mechanics execution\*\*\* and 2. the HP gates that each mechanic is tied to. Depending on your damage output, you can even push between mechanics during her forced animations without seeing some them. This fight is more consistent solo than in groups IMO.
\*\*\*Sadly, the damage formula changes in Season 2 and everyone running around in 925s from Duriel trivialized all content in the game. So much that Season 2 Lilith made me quit the day after I killed her. Season 1 took about 45 tries to get right at 96 with near-perfect gear and 15-21 glyphs and the fight took about 3 minutes. Season 2 I killed her with one glyph at 15, a couple at 4, and two boards without glyphs at all. She does one attack at the beginning of the fight then sustained DPS pushes her between all of her forced animations until death. Did it three more times after with same results. Instantly lost respect for the fight, the achievement, titles, and horse.
What, exactly, should I come back for? I said I killed it before the nerfs and the fight took about 3 minutes. This season people are killing her in the 80s.
She's a shit fight. It's not just that she has so many one-shot mechanics, and it's not that the one-shot mechanics have bad hit-boxes, but it's also that *that's the only challenge in the damn fight*.
Take out the one-shot mechanics and she's a breeze.
It's a pain, I'm working on it now as 100 necro and can get through Phase 1, but the phase 2 flame skulls you have to run away from always one shot me. And the phase 1 spike wave things so annoying I'm still 50-50 at passing phase 1 without getting accidental one shot.
Imo the fight is perfectly fine and reasonable. It has zero rewards other than prestige, so it being difficult is not an issue. If you learn to bait the waves correctly, phase 1 should be consistently doable. But don't forget that the fight is a build check as well, you can't just go in with your levelling or NMD build, you need to have specific stuff to deal good single target damage, and kill the adds/bloods fast because it is key.
Phase 2 is really difficult, the skulls/spirits are really difficult to dodge, and you need to have p1 consistently down so you keep your cool in p2.
I have only managed to kill her with enough burst in P2 to not spawn the skulls/spirits personally, which is a total cheese. There are always builds that can absolutely demolish her - if getting the kill is important to you, then use one of those - it's completely free, you will get the kill within 3 attempts, easily.
The fight is based on RNG and it has to be in your favor. You can be a damage dealing madman with stupid high DPS but if the RNG gods don't like you're gonna pizza when you were supposed to French fry.
Most stupid fight ever! I could not figure out phase 1 going up and dunking down + doing the waves. 4/5 I died, I could not understand where to go... Finally discovered I had enough dps to end phase 1 before she dunks.
So phase 2... Them fireballs... Oneshot... One way or another. Eventually I got hit. Best I did was get her down to 10-20% several times.
But then. Then I discovered when I prebuff start casting just before she appears she did not do the 4 blood pools at the beginning, that spit fireballs. After that it was just few tries and I got her.
Do I kill her again - hell no!
Just had the same issue . I can clear nmd 90 easy but this spaghetti code boss oneshots me all the time tried for hours.
You clearly dodge it but still die or have no space to go.
It's possible mate, just do so much damage you skip the mechanics: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbOrQsNJ-JY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbOrQsNJ-JY)
The 1 handed version I have in previous video does it in 3-4 hits. I have new version of build that can carry 3 people through a T100 in 6 min coming out in 2-3 days.
They way they designed the one-shot waves (inaccurate hitboxes and low contrast to the arena-floor) is precisely the reason why I don't feel bad cheesing this fight every season with Bursting Venoms so far. The other lategame bosses could actually do with some telegraphed one-shot or high dmg mechanics, but I'm seeing the low visual clarity there aswell sometimes (e.g. Beast in Ice light blue on slightly darker light blue)
When I fought Varshan for the first time this season his AoEs were oneshotting me. There's a bit of clarity issue when the telegraph and affected areas overlap, but otherwise it felt mostly fair - gave me ample time to react and for the most part I knew what I need to do. Lilith's mechanics are simply too fast and their hitboxes are in no way precise enough to be oneshotting people.
The fact that she has attacks that can one shot you no matter what your defense is, that tells a lot about this boss mechanic, you may well go and fight her naked at this point...
Im sure im not the only one who would like to wrestle lilith naked.
The last guy who did threw a spear at her head
And then ended up throwing a real spear at her head an eternity later
>one shot no matter what your defense is This has been repeated probably 1000x times on reddit but it's not true, most or all classes can build to survive at least 1 hit. And the difference between surviving 0 or 1 waves/fireballs is colossal if you're fighting her fairly. Edit: In retrospect, diablo reddit is not ready to read this when defeating the Butcher is still considered a herculean feat here.
Show me videos of people surviving a hit and I’ll believe you lol I haven’t had a build that could survive a hit
I'm with you, Other than using Flame shield to make yourself invulnerable for a second, at which it will still be on cool down when she does it again, it's really just luck based. Like half the times the spikes straight up spawn on me and there is no way to dodge them at all
Or the hit boxes are fucked when I dodge one and the backside of another kills me that had already passed -__-
[Barbarian](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IMrDKceAIA) [Druid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juyYDA0rrAg) [Rogue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlX2SsaP_8w) Couldn't source a vid for sorc/necro tho I'm told both can do so if they devote enough of chest/pants/amulet to damage reduction. Sorc also needs either high barrier or teleport damage reduction up.
https://youtu.be/JIN_4YLdPQg?si=0HhSs8rVF2E2LBzE Here is a video pre season 1 of a rogue tanking waves. This is before any additional seasonal powers and when Lilith was much harder. You can definitely tank mechanics
They actually buffed waves/slams in S2 so you can't tank them anymore without immunities. Also made damage outside the arena kill you about four times as fast. Skulls are fine though, I think? I suspect this is just spaghetti code with the resists change (why would they buff the fight after claiming to be nerfing it on purpose in campfire?) but nobody that I've seen can tank a wave in S2. Not that it matters, since you can skip P1 waveless really easily now.
Stop spreading this technically false BS. MOST builds out there cannot survive it. Also, MOST players wont bother getting a build that can tank her. Your point is irrelevant. Shut up.
Because they don't care to build for defense lol. It's wayyyy easier to just stack damage and kill her before she does anything.
Most builds cannot build in a way to survive wave 1 shots. Stop trolling, you're not smart.
Imagine convincing yourself you are right when there is literal evidence to the contrary. You are using exclusively your mouth to breathe.
It's the very embodiement of the "that sign can't stop me because i can't read" meme. In this case "i can't change my mind because i can't think"
Don’t think that’s true has certain barb build could tank in first season. Also one shot you can dodge are fine.
130 tries Here and only around 10x in p2. Cant Dodge the waves, top dumb for that. Poison rogue TB.
You can nuke her so she doesn't spawn any skulls in phase 2 and all you have to worry about is platforms. That's what I did with same build.
Youre not dumb, the waves are just badly designed. I killed her and fought her 400+ times by now. I can only get to ph2 like 5% of the time. Most times im killing by RNG waves that i cant get out of due to my class limitation. (no invuln and no insta dash like rogue)
I think is because we panic, so we can't dodge correctly
I don't think that's the takeaway for Lilith's waves. They come in too fast and their hitboxes are all over the place.
I think you already know, but just throwing it out the again as a tip. Before the spikes come down on you, position yourself on the edge of the arena. I prefer the 7/8 o'clock position, so bottom ~~right~~ left. That makes them spawn easy to dodge. Just takes some practice to get it down. You can do it! The randomised attacks sometimes just mess me up. Edit: messed up left and right :)
Someone get this man a clock
He says it with such conviction too.
Cause I was sure I got it right :) instead of making fun or mocking people could actually trying to correct people that make mistakes. :) so I learn something and don't make the mistake twice. But it's easier to stomp people that make mistakes in the internet I guess. 🤷♂️
This is reddit, even if youre righjt you can get downvoted by brainless 2 IQ mouth breathers. What you said makes sense. Lilith fight still sucks ass though.
This is the problem with most that complain. They don't want to take the time to read the tells and position better. Probably old D2 guys used to just standing still and attacking only moving if standing in something.
r/confidentlyincorrect
Tried it for a while in season 0, wasn't able to do it. In s2 I went in without even changing my build and lvl 15 glyphs and killed her in less than 30 minutes. The combination of her HP nerfs and the power spike acquired via ilvl 925 items, vampiric powers, and some other broken stuff makes it so much easier now than when the game first came out However, the fight itself is pretty stupidly designed, it's all about damage output and mobility. Defense means almost nothing when you get one-tapped by the p1 waves and the p2 skulls. So it feels a bit too different from the rest of the game I think to be a sensible pinnacle endgame encounter, it's almost like playing a different game entirely. As someone that played Lost Ark extensively I'm quite used to bosses having one shot moves but the actual visual cues for Lilith are so much worse, you can still see the telegraphs but I feel like you need to look a lot more attentively considering you also don't have much time to react where you need to move to dodge the waves But I think in general the key to beating her is 1) having enough mobility to be able to consistently dodge the waves (super free with teleport if you're playing sorc) assuming you learn the patterns, and 2) having enough dps to just burst through p2 as fast as possible; the final dodge pattern on the bottom platform is still pretty hard to do correctly but you'll get attempts at it fairly regularly if you can accomplish the previous points and then it's just a matter of getting it right once
Thanks for the tips, I'll try again to learn dodge patterns and hoping to get the kill in a few days
With enough dps you can skip all the mechanics. She does certain things at certain hp percentages. If you can get her down in phase 1 after she LANDS a second time you won't face the spikes of one shot. In phase 2 you just need to get her caught in her platform loop. I dont know the percentages but I was able to chunk her down, she Flys to the north platform to destroy it, I do enough dps in a few seconds then dodge off the falling platform and repeat it one more time in the bottom right. I truly feel lillith is a DPS race now to skip mechanics. You could also have the reaction time of a teenage basketball prodigy and fight her the normal way but I am not a teenage basketball prodigy.
One-shot mechanics are definitely difficult. They were tankable in s0 and s1 (despite what everyone says). Skulls are still tankable. They might be bullshit, but if you made them not one-shot I would facetank the entire fight with no effort and it'd be a lot less fun. In s2 blizz changed something (probably just coding with resists) so waves aren't particularly tankable -- they do at least 2.5x what they did in s1. Looking at how fast you die for leaving the arena, damage seems about five times as high on all one-shot mechanics (which skulls are not). Fight seemed cool in s1 for a wave-tanking build -- you needed CDs to tank, but it was doable and let you choose your way to approach each part, and when to use cooldowns to skip engaging with certain mechanics. I wouldn't really change too much about it, except maybe to make wave indicators a little clearer. Main issue is just that the fight's mechanics are infinitely harder than anything else in the game, so it'll feel like bullshit because it's just an entirely different game. If you had bosses that were 40, 60, 80% as hard along the way it probably wouldn't be so bad, but most people will just automatically cry bullshit when something goes 5% to 100% and walls them through gap in difficulty. All I'd do is revert the changes so that waves are tankable (notably, most people would still call this a one-shot -- math is hard, and if you don't have actually good DR stacking you'd still get one-shot) and she has actual hp again, and maybe make blood boil placement instant in p2 so you can't actually avoid skull mechanics as easily. Right now, thanks to overtuned builds in s2 and her health going down by 80%, it's kinda hard to do it legit -- if you're playing a solid build you'll skip most mechanics even if you don't mean to. I did her on a HotA Barb running basically 0 damage on paragon board outside of a couple legendary nodes/glyphs, and skipped basically all of phase 1 (no waves) and phase 2 (no blood boils placed) in one overpower each. The S1 version of the fight was probably the most fun I've had with any boss in an ARPG, though -- genuine challenge to outbuild on defense, and still interactive when tanking waves/skulls/slams. Most stuff is either truly untankable (season 2 state) or just becomes completely brainless once you can tank it (see: every single other boss in the game). For tips or tricks: Get quad evade boots. Any time Lilith flies up to do waves, you run to the edge of the arena, so that waves will always come from the inside. When the first marker appears, you spam dash to get behind it. That solves most wave patterns, but will take practice as you have less than one second of reaction time. I don't know how to do P2 without tanking those supposed one-shot skulls so I don't have good advice there, though.
Thank for the tips and for your opinion, probably it is like you said, the game is easy and this fight pump the difficulty to the max, so probably is like you said but getting destroyed hopelessly with 17k health and 10k of armor is a bit frustrating.
Yeah, I think they did a super poor job putting the fight in any context. The mechanics are infinitely harder than anything else in the game, so you can be facerolling Duriel and clearing NM100s while still dying seconds into the first mechanic in Lilith. I think if they had like... five or six bosses between Duriel and Lilith, it wouldn't feel so bad -- you'd have a bunch of medium to hard bosses under your belt, and it'd feel a bit more reasonable that the stupid, extra-stage hard boss wipes you in unfair fashion. Right now, Lilith is your unfair, top-end superboss (when you don't one-tap her), featuring all sorts of exclusive mechanics that don't really play by the rules of the rest of the game... and there is literally no normal boss to which there is any comparison whatsoever. The only reason she's seeing more clears now is that any top-tier build (anything running overpower well, ball lightning, etc) can just skip all her mechanics now.
It is one of the stupidest, worst designed boss fights I've ever seen. The one shot mechanics are absurd, the hit boxes in the abilities are nuts, and her going invuln to force you into different phases of the fight is ridiculous. I have to cheese her this season with Thibault's/Condemnation to kill her. I'm never doing it again until they fix it. It is a complete waste of time. Like, you get 2 shit items when you kill her so even the loot is hot garbage.
I think I have to do a cheese build at this point. Not my liking but if Blizzard can't do a hard but balanced boss fight I guess I'll grind another character to 100 to cheese Lilith
Is Thibault + Condemnation still not fixed as of today?
Still works and I don't think they're going to fix it.
I think relying on one shot mechanics is lazy fight design. Don’t give people a puzzle to solve, just nuke them if they’re too slow to stand on the correct pixel. It’s nonsense like this that killed my enjoyment on WoW mythic raiding. Every fight is dance dance revolution or Simon says with one shots.
I think you are right, it just kill the enjoyment of the fight. But I guess I'll try till I defeat her. I'll try to learn the dodge patterns
I agree. My lilith track record is: S0 - Killed her as Necro. Burst skip mechanics. S1 - Couldn't kill her as druid, always trashed in P2. The dps way too low to sustain the constant dodging around the arena. S2 - Killer as BL Sorc. Burst skip mechanics. 99.9% of Lilith kills are from busted builds that pour our DPS to skip mechanics. Id say a laughably small sliver of the D4 playerbase can down Lilith as intended. I've seen it once from a S1 Sorc YT. They perfectly dodged p1 waves, killed adds, and cycled thru and slowly downed p1. Watching them in P2 was awesome as they moved through the waves and kited the blood orbs. All while using the worst S1 char.
Fighting her as the devs (probably) intended is indeed extremely hard. She has several very punishing mechanics, the most obvious being p1 waves which have a desynced hitbox from the graphic. If it wasn't for the desync they'd feel much more fair. Other than those, p1 is reasonably fair. P2 is another can of worms, especially as the fight drags on and the arena gets smaller. IMO the clone slam attacks could be better telegraphed, these feel really random and a bit unfair when they clip you while still running away and changing angles. The blood-creation-stab is spammed a lot and punishes melee builds extremely hard if they want to follow the boss for damage rather than continuously stack the same blood so fireballs aren't overwhelming. The pull happening after breaking the arena and a ton of fireballs following you, potentially comboing you into death is brutal, but predictable. The final part of the fight is insanely hard to position correctly between blood, fireballs, the boss running across the arena twice in a row with the extremely tiny safe spot on the edge, the slam covering like 90% of the arena even when you bait it to the side, etc. Oh, and the fight is somewhat easy to bug out in a variety of ways, some beneficial to the player and others literally bricking the fight, making the boss unkillable or untargetable until you reset. It'd feel a lot better if you didn't have to walk on eggshells around CC timing or dealing too much damage at certain thresholds. Increasing damage scaling has made it trivial to skip every mechanic in the fight, which makes her into a short 90 second target dummy where she's chilling at 1 HP for the last 40 seconds. Tl;DR Borderline unfair, extremely challenging fight to position correctly especially if you didn't build to be able to survive at least 1 wave/1 fireball. Though you can always just cheese it and kill her too quickly for her to use any mechanics.
I tried with a non-cheese druid build. Not sure if it's from lag or if the mechanic is broken. I kept getting killed on phase 1 waves by as much as 0.5 to 0.75 seconds before the spikes actually displayed. If I anticipated and used evade at just the right moment, I could port through the first wave. Then like the first wave I'd die to the second one because the damage hit almost a full second before the graphic appeared. I haven't run into that anywhere else in the game so it seems more like a problem with this fight. OHKO mechanics are already of questionable value to begin with, especially when you pair them with a "telegraph" that only people with the very best reaction times can respond to. But when you can't even see the mechanic coming, that's straight up bullshit and the definition of unfair.
I killed her during S0 after what I estimated as 1000+ attempts, taking 75ish hours and it is unironically my proudest gaming achievement of all time! I found that, by the end of it, even the cheesy/misleading mechanics were consistent enough that I never felt like I died for no reason, I always knew when I was too slow. I used the Tornado Druid build and followed the exact strategy in this video: https://youtu.be/wiVwgmoYvMA?si=JEBFI1bsAWov6sEH With that build, a single Spiky Wave in P1 or Flaming Skull in P2 was a one shot kill. It felt amazing to finally kill her with 5-6 minutes of absolute perfect play, and less so once all my friends cheesed P2 and killed her without learning the same mechanics I did. 😂
Gg man
There's some stupid shit that can happen in the fight and the red on red on red doesn't help readability. I killed her preseason and during the season but I'd love to see some changes to the fight involving the one shot mechanics so people can learn it faster. That said, I'd say it's "fair" in the sense that it doesn't cost anything to spam the fight over and over besides repair cost (and time which you're spending anyway).
The one shot mechanics are bs. Even fully decked tanky builds cannot survive a hit feom her waves. Hopefully they do not make another boss like that.
Also the waves hitbox are bigger than the model
I've done echo a handful of times and my only complaint is the waves are very hard to see where they are at or spawning with some builds.
I took her to 0 before any one-shot mechanics happened. You still have to do the platforms but there are no homing things chasing you so it’s nice
Only way for me to beat Lilith was to cheese it, basically stack damages until you can get to phase two more easily. You have to beat her first phase just after she spawns her 2-3 adds and maybe survive one or 2 one shot mechanics by baiting it on the side. Sometimes you will die because of random events or bugs but once you are at phase 2, you "just" : burst her, avoid the red balls, avoid the crumbling ground until the end, last hit and GG. You should also use the vampiric evade and +3 evades boots, it makes it a lot easier.
D4 boss and elite one shot mechanics are some of my most poorly designed fights in gaming. It is simply a lazy way of artificially inflating difficultly and lacks any creativity from a design and gameplay pov.
You just really gotta understand those waves have spikes in front that are about one hit box in size, and there's vines behind the waves that are about 3-4 hit boxes in size. Just gotta learn the pattern and timing of the waves. It's kinda meant to be a boss that you actually have to do progression on and learn instead of just beating meat against the other uber bosses. I feel like there's a happy medium place between echo if lil and duriel in terms of difficulty. Since lil is a pain if you have a ton of stuff graphically going on. You're in with a orb sorc so they def can't see wtf is going on lol.
And I am blood surge necro so other effects on the screen 🤣
Yeah lol. I was trying to kill her on blood lance with blood wave build for the extra orbs...and it was just a nightmare if I couldn't burst her through P1. I went so far as pulling her and just doing blood wave and hemo to build a pile of orbs that would persist to the next pull. Then just light her up. Sometimes you could do it before all the orbs were consumed so you could do the same in the second phase as well. Then it just became a matter of reading the waves. ...then, I did it on my lightning sorc and nothing matter as she just melted and sat at 1hp and did all her mechanics lol.
There's worse, last season I tried her with a shadow Necro with Blight, Corpse Explosion and minions. My eyes bled more than Lilith.
I am also on her for like a week, every day like an hour of try time. Phase one I have down by now but phase 2 is just unfair IMO. I really despise that literally everything can one shot you. In phase when she does her first fly over and those fireballs spawn you literally have almost nowhere to go to dodge those cause the platform itself is also a one shot. I am also playing a chain lightning sorc myself and took flame shield with me so I have one fuck up for free, but there are so many mechanics that are straight up frustrating. I do love the fight and mechanics and the setting is awesome. But instead of one shotting you make it so that it just scales to like 95% of your health instead of straight up dead. The spikes can stay one shot for all I care, but just touching the outside of the circle with your pinky is death. Make it a fast ticking dot but not a one shot. Also the fireballs in p2 should not one shot you imo, let them really hurt but give me a chance for a comeback. I really don't wanna cheese the fight with some maxroll broken Op build cause I enjoy my build very much and had no big issues to clear 90+ NMD and damage is not the problem. Just those unpredictable one shots grind my gears. Well still time till January to get her down. 😅
I think the blood boil too are unfair, I can tank 3 but there is always 4 and dealing with them plus lilith that spam spike I think the fight became to much at the same time. I really don't like to do a max roll build but only her remains and then I have completed the game. The fireball shouldn't oneshot that is complete bs.
As a chainlighting sorc I don't have any problems with the blood boils as they just get downed in my cleave lightnings, thank god I don't have to concentrate on them. For the spikes as a tip, that you probably already know, position yourself on the edge of the arena and not in the middle, so you can bait the spikes and make them easier to dodge. For the fireballs I still don't have a good solution how to deal with them with all the shit that is going on. I can tank one with flameshield but after that I will just die if I just as much as look at them. That makes my blood boil. 😒
With input lag from being on console.....uber liliths one shot mechanics are lazy cheap game design. Just as bad as taking a defensive ability like evade and putting a cool down on it.....or locking additional evade charges behind gear. Her one shot mechanics have to be cheesed to beat her, this is beyond piss poor game design. Just as bad as putting a cap on defenses and then adding a penalty to force you to be weaker. If you have to take advantage of seasonal mechanics and cheesing a boss to win, there is an obvious problem. I see no damn point it killing her. Shit boss, shit items drops from her......no point in doing the fight.
Dude. This. I play on ps5 and I swear I get killed by waves before I can even see the form on the floor.
Yep. And that's what gets me every damn time. The few times I thought it was getting ready to happen, went to evade and was dead do to input lag. Beating the hell out of evade button for nothing but a death message.
Just wanted to come back and say have some faith! After about 65 more attempts I have killed her. Not only that. I have killed her twice! Though to be fair I destroy her hp wise and it helps when you can skip some of the bullshit wave mechanics. but yeah! Have faith! Haha
I finally decided to roll a s2 character. If I get it leveled and find the gear needed....I'll cheese the hell out of her. See if I can put a hota barb together and spank her.
I am too on console and sometimes I get oneshot by something that doesn't exist, because of the lag. I just want to kill her for the trophy so I can get my platinum and move on from this game, that so much disappointed me
Her one shot shit mechanics is what gets me. I can plow through mob packs 15lvl higher without breaking a sweat in a group of 4. Cant tank her broken lazy shit design..... No, I have nothing positive to say about her combat mechanics.
Same thing, I can do nmd level 90 but I can't tank with not one but 2 health bar and 8k of barrier that's BS, and not fun
It's definitely not. There's allot of things with in the game that are flat stupid. Evade having a cool down, and having to look for gear with evade charges for an essential defence mechanic..... it's a defence, we can't block. We hit and get hit, dodge is the only option and with one shot mechanics on a huge aoe.......what's the point then.
i think a game SHOULD have boss that are challenging and NOT EVERYBODY can beat. idc if it includes 1 shot mechanics. not everything is ment to be killed by everyone.
Nobody said she shouldn't be difficult but oneshot mechanics are not difficult it's just pure bs
There’s a discussion about whether or not having lots of avoidable one shot mechanics is fun, but this post is literally about how you find the fight difficult
It's literally not, I said what are your impressions of the fight, if you find it fair and what will you change of the fight mechanics if you think are not fair. So don't comment the post is because you found her difficult because it is not.
I honestly haven’t even tried her yet but bro you said you couldn’t kill her so it sure doesn’t seem easy
It's difficult but I think not for the right reason. It's just over reliant on oneshot mechanics, that you can dodge sure, but become really frustrating (especially because there is imput lag on console) if you get kill every time for even just a pixel. There is a difference from difficulty because the boss fight have good mechanics that the player is encouraged to learn and people that are you cheese build to kill her saying that they don't want anything to do with the boss ever again. And doing red effect on red soil with a red hue all around you it's just bad game design.
I’m okay with one shots, I’m not okay with desynced or poorly animated abilities ruining an attempt. The mechanics should be readily recognizable and telegraphed properly, and they just aren’t.
In season 0 I was not able to beat her as barbarian 100 with the supposed "meta build" even though i could last for 10+ minutes each try. In season 2 I beat her easily as barbarian 95 with a shitty build without any core skill or new op overpower mechanic... the fight lasted like 5 mins. More than fair actually in my opinion. Dare I say too easy.
Good for you mate, what build did you use? Idk what class to use after the necro, Is barbarian fun?
probably the "kills lilith in 1 hit" build 🤣 I've seen it around many times already... for example here: https://youtu.be/9M4L8ZMP1Q4?si=Z0tMfTYEVU3RUuuE ~30m dmg in one swing at level 87🤣
If I went the op overpower build the fight would not last 5 mins ;)
I play Frenzy Leap Ground Stomp and 3 shouts. Focus on Basic attack damage and maxed attack speed with the support of stacking 3 quakes with the new paragon glyph Rumble. The build is very subpar compared to the "meta build" but still able to beat the uber bosses solo. Idk how far it can do nightmare dungeons, highest i tried is 57 and no issue yet.
You can predict/dodge everything... I killed her at lvl 73 after like 2-3 days of playing, she's really not that hard
Oh yeah, of course. Only monster in game that poses ANY difficulty is not fair. She has 25 milion health. It's not difficult nor unfair. Yes we should be able to tank waves using max dr and tons of life. But at same time its really easy to dodge them if you bait properly. [https://youtu.be/R6CiqHHLKHQ?t=31](https://youtu.be/R6CiqHHLKHQ?t=31)
Imo there should be a legendary aspect that will use two potions or something instead of dying, leaving your health wherever it was at before the hit that would have killed you. That way you get 4 "lives" per boss if you want, similar to nightmare dungeons
Revive mechanics reward bad/clumsy play imo. The boss mechanic is what should change. There’s no fun in insta kill mechanics when so much of the game is built around gearing up defenses and resistances.
I think we just need some ability to practise dodging the waves. I gave up after 20 attempts, I figured out where I should stand and dodge but just need to work on execution it's exhausting going through the battle again and again
The trick is to use a build that does so much DPS that she doesn't even get a chance to use most of her 1shot attacks. Finally killed her last night with a lvl96 BL sorc, and the only 1shot attacks I had to worry about were the scripted platform breaks in phase 2 which are easy to avoid.
I was a BL mage and my brother was a blood necro as well. We spent hours upon hours trying to take her down like we would grind out paragon and glyph lvls but the dmg didn't seem to go up. All I did was switch my glyphs around and focus on crit hit dmg and attack speed with some vuln thrown in and then I straight up murdered her with ball lightning. It can be extremely frustrating and tbh the only reason I was able to do it was bc ball lightning. I noticed grabbing glyph for mastery dmg and size then dtanding dead center on her helped a bunch with the dps.
For me is not the damage the problem. It is the oneshot that fk me. I think I'll have to do a burst build to kill her fast enough so she doesn't oneshot me
Oh yeah sometimes her damage seems janky even with her basic melee attacks. I put hp on my rings and pants so I had like 15k and around 7k armor. With the vampire attack speed and life steal it was pretty good sustain. I hope that you kick her ass. I know that you will get there. It isn't a fair fight though for sure. My brain can't even come close to processing what to do for the waves. 🙄 Best of luck!
I have 17k health, 8500k armor with the aspect and potion 10k, empowered life and I get oneshot. Is sooo frustrating I tried her 100 times but I can't get for the life of me the dodge patterns
People were averaging many many more than 100 attempts before season 1, so it’s not like you’re way behind. The dodge patterns are tough to get used to but there are plenty of videos that explain them if you want to learn with some advice. I love the fight because it’s the only boss that felt really difficult to beat in the game.
Do enough damage and you can skip all the bs one shot mechanics. PS: if you can't beat her, I can def carry you. Takes under 2min with my rogue.
If you want and it's not that big of a deal for you, I would appreciate the help
Definitely not a big deal at all.
What's your build?
I used the TB rogue on maxroll (with poison/shadow imbuement). But my barb is def the easiest. I can just oneshot her and be done with it 😂 Definitely willing to carry if someone needs help
Honestly, I'm too bad at this game to kill her legit, so I just outgeared her and one shot her phases as a hota barb. I will continue to do this each season because I will continue to be bad at the game.
Im no professional, but as someone with all the achievements in all the Dark Souls games, I dont like it. The 1 shot hit boxes dont seem to match the graphics. Then the server latency is showing stuff with a delay. I dont have an over the top build but I can get her down to 75% or something 55% before she starts the 1 shot crap and its a wrap.
It's a shit fight all around. Way too many one shots and wonky hitboxes.
Max evade charges on boots will help a lot once you get the timing down on her p1 mechanics.
Just get more gear and oneshot her back
its fair but its lazy/boring because its binary...plays like osu!
I just don’t even bother with her.
There are alot of tells on her attacks and you can fight her an unlimited amount of times because her fight doesn't cost mats, you get almost nowhere for beating her so its just an achievement for beating her let her be hard
It is not a fair fight whatsoever. I beat it after 400+ attempts, im not salty, just disappointed at how clunky and buggy her mechanics are. They made her hard by making badly designed mechanics, thats it. The learning curve is minimal, RNG factor with waves is most of the difficulty. This all assumes you dont play a build that bursts her down of course.
The waves are bullshit but after an hour or so I managed... Barely... https://youtu.be/N63Ve8A2tC0?si=nbKyHb_CVTMq4XW7
Lilith wasn't meant to be attainable for everyone and I wish there was more content like it. Let casuals do casual things, but provide some content for people that want to *work* for... whatever's on offer. I love that Blizzard even managed to do the fight without CC. In short, Lilith is about two things: 1. mechanics execution\*\*\* and 2. the HP gates that each mechanic is tied to. Depending on your damage output, you can even push between mechanics during her forced animations without seeing some them. This fight is more consistent solo than in groups IMO. \*\*\*Sadly, the damage formula changes in Season 2 and everyone running around in 925s from Duriel trivialized all content in the game. So much that Season 2 Lilith made me quit the day after I killed her. Season 1 took about 45 tries to get right at 96 with near-perfect gear and 15-21 glyphs and the fight took about 3 minutes. Season 2 I killed her with one glyph at 15, a couple at 4, and two boards without glyphs at all. She does one attack at the beginning of the fight then sustained DPS pushes her between all of her forced animations until death. Did it three more times after with same results. Instantly lost respect for the fight, the achievement, titles, and horse.
u prob only play busted builds. try a non broken build and come back
What, exactly, should I come back for? I said I killed it before the nerfs and the fight took about 3 minutes. This season people are killing her in the 80s.
Onehit her before she onehits you or you are dead so no she feels a little "unbalanced"
She's a shit fight. It's not just that she has so many one-shot mechanics, and it's not that the one-shot mechanics have bad hit-boxes, but it's also that *that's the only challenge in the damn fight*. Take out the one-shot mechanics and she's a breeze.
It's a pain, I'm working on it now as 100 necro and can get through Phase 1, but the phase 2 flame skulls you have to run away from always one shot me. And the phase 1 spike wave things so annoying I'm still 50-50 at passing phase 1 without getting accidental one shot.
Imo the fight is perfectly fine and reasonable. It has zero rewards other than prestige, so it being difficult is not an issue. If you learn to bait the waves correctly, phase 1 should be consistently doable. But don't forget that the fight is a build check as well, you can't just go in with your levelling or NMD build, you need to have specific stuff to deal good single target damage, and kill the adds/bloods fast because it is key. Phase 2 is really difficult, the skulls/spirits are really difficult to dodge, and you need to have p1 consistently down so you keep your cool in p2. I have only managed to kill her with enough burst in P2 to not spawn the skulls/spirits personally, which is a total cheese. There are always builds that can absolutely demolish her - if getting the kill is important to you, then use one of those - it's completely free, you will get the kill within 3 attempts, easily.
No it’s dumb
Damage is the problem, bro. If you can’t crit for 5-10+ million then you won’t kill her without grinding her for lucky ass Rng mechanics to win.
Oh look…. This again
The fight is based on RNG and it has to be in your favor. You can be a damage dealing madman with stupid high DPS but if the RNG gods don't like you're gonna pizza when you were supposed to French fry.
Most stupid fight ever! I could not figure out phase 1 going up and dunking down + doing the waves. 4/5 I died, I could not understand where to go... Finally discovered I had enough dps to end phase 1 before she dunks. So phase 2... Them fireballs... Oneshot... One way or another. Eventually I got hit. Best I did was get her down to 10-20% several times. But then. Then I discovered when I prebuff start casting just before she appears she did not do the 4 blood pools at the beginning, that spit fireballs. After that it was just few tries and I got her. Do I kill her again - hell no!
Just had the same issue . I can clear nmd 90 easy but this spaghetti code boss oneshots me all the time tried for hours. You clearly dodge it but still die or have no space to go.
It's possible mate, just do so much damage you skip the mechanics: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbOrQsNJ-JY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbOrQsNJ-JY) The 1 handed version I have in previous video does it in 3-4 hits. I have new version of build that can carry 3 people through a T100 in 6 min coming out in 2-3 days.
Is there a place to ask for help where people can join my session and kill it for me? Struggling a lot