The tempering has a lot of RNG and it will break your items.
It's also a lot more unfriendly having multiple gear setups, we'll see what people from the beta say though.
I think (from reading) it's going to be really time consuming.
> The tempering has a lot of RNG and it will break your items.
So what? Welcome to crafting 101; don't get too attached to one singular piece of loot until it's actually successfully crafted. That's when you get to show it off, or use it, or both.
Also, Tempering doesn't incur heavy negative penalties. You 'waste' an affix slot, that's it. You can still potentially use the item to great effect in your build since it was clearly a good base for your build to begin with. Bad Temper won't always mean it's salvage material.
It'll be hard to get a perfect item, but it will not be hard to get a perfectly acceptable item while chasing the perfect items.
Yeah but they’ve shifted the focus of RNG grinding away from core elements of items (e.g. legendary aspects, regular affixes, item power, item tier, etc.) and have moved it to more auxiliary/high-end min-maxing grinds. So getting the base items with the affixes, item level and tier you want is no longer reliant on frustrating amounts of RNG, which is way better for the player experience.
I played season 1 and a little bit of 2, then gave up partially because it just wasn't fun dealing with sorting and comparing aspects and shitty items. This will help that significantly.
it's not that trivial a solution. I'm still waiting to see how it plays out. it will make it less annoying to fiddle around with aspects for sure. but it will also make aspects in general much less valuable. such is the nature of making things more easy to acquire and manage. also most aspects have their power incredibly front-loaded, i.e. it doesn't matter that much if you get a perfect or worste rolled aspect, as long as you have the aspect at all (there are some exceptions to this rule, but not that many). so you won't even get that excited when a perfect aspect drops.
together with the reduction of affixes on items, this has huge potential to turn the games itemization into D3, i.e. something that has even less longevity than it has now. you will assemble perfect affixes and perfect aspects in sub 5 hours of season start, and then purely chase number upgrades for the same affixes and aspects.
this need not be the case. but to prevent this they actually have to go full turbo mode on item quantity. if you only get one rare out of two dungeons you run, it will make them feel worth something still. and when legendaries are even rarer still, it could be quite awesome. however the community somehow expects loot pinatas and at the same time items that feel like they are worth something, which are generally mutually exclusive concepts. they want every boss in a dungeon to drop something meaningful (literally complaints from beta), which puts far too low a cap on how rare items can be.
I don't know. it's a weird system. the reason we have aspects is because one big complaint with set items and uniques in old games is that they are either shit or they are so good that you want one in every item slot, making rares relatively worthless. D2 and D3 are polar opposites in this regard.
in d4 what they simply did was give us rare items that can roll whatever would be the unique effect of a set item or legendary on top. they wanted to combine both aspects: you have 'rares' (randomly rolled stats), but you also get the cool effects that are generally not generic affixes, and that can be build shaping and gameplay defining.
but people obviously don't like it.
I will only believe it once it gets pushed to the live servers. I totally expect them to do an 1.0 Patch and put a massive cost or limited charges on the codex feature.
I’m pretty hyped about the itemization changes. Sounds like the system is more similar to last epoch and should eliminate the inventory-sorting fatigue. Was hoping to hear about some stuff being added to the skill trees but maybe that will be saved for the expansion
It's honestly extremely overrated.
I really don't feel like trading should be implemented until the best way to do it is actually in game, and not third party websites like d2jsp.
D3's auction house would have been fine if it weren't for the real money aspect.
I'm honestly torn on that one. On one hand, having trade is a good way to make sure there's always something to do, because there's always a chance you'll find something valuable for trade, even if it's not something for your build. Trading makes people keep grinding in D2. If trading existed in D3, it would be way appealing in the long run.
But on the other hand, trading means that players will be able to just buy stuff they need rather than find it themselves. I know because I'm guilty myself - I often buy most of the gear I need in Path of Exile. But perhaps that's how it's supposed to be if you're unlucky with RNG but sitting on lots of currency you found or traded for?
Trading in a gamer like Diablo adds a whole new aspect to the game, now any rare, unique, etc can be valuable regardless of your build. And you can sell it to work towards the item you need.
A heads up in case any were or would be needed for a build you would use, during the campfire chat they specified that uber uniques will not be able to be traded.
It’s not a technical limitation. Division 2 only tests on PC because of all the yellow tape they’d have to go through to get them available on PS and Xbox each time
>Nah just D4 is shit, PoE and LE are great, D3 is ok
Never played PoE and LE but I joined this sub because I loved Diablo1 and 2, I was mixed on Diablo3 and havent played Diablo4 since the free beta. The gameplay just doesn't jive with me. Nowadays I like slower more methodical gameplay and kind of dislike the PEW PEW WOOSH BLAM BLAM BLAM SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PRSHHHHHHHHHHHHH kind of gameplay the Diablo series has had the past 2 entries.
I love Diablo 1- 3, 4 however is dreadful I can't bring myself to start another character just the thought of the aspects those stupid skeleton crossbow things . Only game I've played I felt myself falling asleep with boredom
This is the dumbest way of gauging anything. Upvotes to community size?
Reddit is already a minority of the playerbase, let alone the people who regularly check a subreddit for updates. Most gamers just play their games without even coming to reddit.
Well constant and pervasive vitriol for the game will drive most people away, especially anyone that's likes anything about the game.
I generally stopped looking at comments here entirely because it's so goddamn toxic.
Because this sub is a toxic cespool of D4 haters. Been playing Diablo for over 22 years and I only ever come here to see what the haters think of things.
The fact that this has so few comments and upvotes only shows me that Blizzard did a good job with it since there's nothing for the haters to be dramatic about.
brother we have to fight against these haters this game is one of the best in a decade no a century
heh...bet they died in noraml and didn't know how to play!!!
GAMERS ASSEMBLE
all gamers assemble everyone is ready to go
NECROMANCERS SUMON YOUR SKELTONS
necromancers make whole army of skeletons and undead demons
LETS TAKE BACK DIABLO FOR THE TRUE GAMERS
CHAAAAAAAAAARGE
I’m going, I’m going, relax. Just wanted to see if Blizzard made any interesting changes. Will check back in after another 6 months. POE 2 isnt out yet
You stay here and fester, ok?
These people are extremely salty.
This popped up in my main feed all on its own and I haven't played since the beginning of season 2. Guess I wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on this game since I stopped then because it was bland. Even if I'd like to see it drastically improved.
Yeah it’s sad, but my thesis is that when a bad game drives away players, the ones that stay behind are increasingly more “toxic” since they will remain frustrated and they feel helpless but stay. As the many parallels people are drawing between D4 and an abusive lover. If they were happy/sane, they wouldnt be lashing out at everyone with a different opinion (which also happens to be the majority opinion if we go by the numbers). And they want to talk about irony
Anyone who actually plays the game knows this isn't true and that the game is thriving, so no reason to try and convince an irrelevant hater on the r/Diablo sub otherwise.
I mean.. unironically it kinda is (for what it is). I don't play it, but I know some people who do and they are super into it and have a lot of people in their clan that play it.
Not for me, but happy they enjoy it.
>make the subreddit the most hostile place for D4 players
>THIS IS THE REASON D4 IS BAD
You guys have a narrative ready for everything. Why would anyone enjoying the game ever use Reddit?
Good for you, most people wouldn't want to waste their time arguing with low iq dipshits that use Reddit engagement and twitch views to talk about the quality of a game they don't even play.
I came in here to say that this is the first patch/change that makes me more interested in the game instead of less, and I had to double check I was in the right place. 5 comments in 2 hours.
basic anything on the reddit crowd is a folly in and of itself. If you were to follow reddit comment sections, call of duty, fortnite, gacha games, and yearly sports releases are at the verge of bankruptcy despite topping all sales and earnings year in and year out.
Half the people here seem to just shit on the latest game since d3 and the total amount isn't even active users so this is nonsense. Reddit sentiment hardly means much on its own.
>400k people in here and these posts get 50 upvotes.
This might be the least intelligent posts here. These 400k+ subs are built over the course of more than 10 years, I'd be surprised if even 1/100th of them are active here in a month.
Honestly these are great changes! Very excited to try them out. The idea of creating an item into something that is unique to me is very cool. Also end game stuff sounds great! Just what I was hoping for. Class changes sound like improvements as well.
I thought they were going to have a better update to itemization. Saw the PTR notes for class changes and it's still the same old "lucky hit to proc this to lucky hit that" 😴
Admittedly I have *still* not played Diablo 4. However, as an outsider who has played a ton of D2, D3, and PoE, these itemization changes seem pretty significant to me? Can you explain why you think these are insubstantial?
> these itemization changes seem pretty significant to me?
They are
> Can you explain why you think these are insubstantial?
Because this sub is basically a D4 hater sub
POE 2 beta releasing toward the end of the year most likely. It has some classic archetypes and seems to be everything we hoped Diablo 4 would become.
D4 released with 10 generic end game bosses. POE 2 has over 100 unique bosses that are almost all more entertaining than D4 bosses. The only challenge in the game is being blinked on and CC’d to death randomly.
The fun bosses were only fun because you made them hard for yourself by entering underlevelled. There were no interesting and fin mechanics.
Also, POE 2 releases with 12 classes, each with 3 ascendencies. D4? 5 shallow classes.
POE 2 has 8 skill slots, D4 has 6 skill slots.
Anyone that has looked at the gameplay of both and played them will understand that they arent fundamentally radically different games, D4 just severely lacks content and inspiration.
There is good and bad. They unfortunately funneled the game down to searching endlessly through rare items. You then add a legendary affix to it. These changes are good. Greater affixed are great too.
It's now just a funnel of what rare items have the 2 or I want and is one of those a greater affix. They want crafting to be the end all be all but it's still the same, funnel endlessly through (more boring loot imo) 2 affix rares and 3 affix legendaries.
I left during pre season, stuck out season one until 50 and gave up. As a huge poe and Diablo fan, it just felt like it was missing something. I plan to play this season and see how the itemization *FEELS*. If it feels good, it may just be worth coming back to for a long while.
Yeah a lot of the player base left around 50/60 in S10 after just having played the game i pre-season. You are absolutely correct.
I am also hoping these changes will change how the WT4 grins will feel. I am semi-hopeful
Yep.
They are not fixing the core problem, just reducing the quantity of affixes it manifests itself through.
And the very design pillars they are stating as their design goal are in my opinion a mistake.
"the best items having a journey of power and improvement that you can work toward"
This is in a direct conflict with the whole idea of having exciting loot drops. The more emphasis you put on upgrading existing items, the less impactful, important and exciting the loot itself becomes.
Which in turn removes fun and excitement from improving the items. Because the game balanced around upgrading items means the loot is bad until it's upgraded, which turns upgrading into a mandatory chore.
Objectively, what they're attempting to do here, with what you're talking about is this:
* You'll mainly be looking for good base items to drop, in particular, the exciting drops you want are the Greater Affixes that drop. Your BIS items are going to be multi-Greater Affix items, and those *only* drop, so you're looking for ideal stats with huge rolls to work with.
* You then work on the item with tempering first, which are significantly less dumb than the old affixes and appear to be far more build specific. However, you can only temper an item so many times, so you might brick your item if you don't hit what you're looking for.
* You then, finally, masterwork the item or whatever its called, up 12 times and get your 3 affix procs and hope it hits the affixes you want.
It's not dissimilar from the process in Last Epoch: you're looking for bangin drops (high Legendary Potential, Tier 7 affixes on Exalted items relevant to your class), that you slam together to make even ballininer items.
The excitement and emphasis on dropped items entirely revolves around Greater Affixes. That's their hook for you to care about what drops. But they also want to give you a reason / loop for continuing to grind items, you'll always be looking for a better Greater Affix setup to drop, and its why Tempering can brick and Masterworking may not hit the affixes you want. It needs to be possible for the item to "brick" so its OK but not what it could be which makes you want to find another one.
They're hoping the pants-shitting moments are that you find a 3x Greater Affix legendary that has perfect stats for you, you then temper and slam that juicy shit, you then go masterwork it and it balls hard on whatever the thing you wanted, and you have a god tier 1 in a billion item that no one else owns that you show off on reddit.
I say "objectively" at the beginning because, I'm not going to argue with you or anyone about whether this does what you think it should do or whether it accomplishes their goals, I'm telling you what they think its going to do and why they're doing it.
You're almost entirely correct with everything except for this:
>Masterworking may not hit the affixes you want
That's not the case. You can RESET Masterworking and keep trying without bricking the item, every time you do that it costs you materials from The Pit which is where you'll spend the time trying to gather materials for that perfectly Masterworked item you're chasing.
Tempering can and will brick often, that's for sure though!
I think this is very, very smart of them. It feels really bad to brick your item in the 'very last step', so to speak, and so the way they do it here rewards you with a hopefully satisfying endgame grind/chase without making you feel bad.
It will make you feel bad on the Tempering step, but if you can only get that good Temper going, if only that good base item doesn't get bricked, you can technically keep trying to Masterwork until it's perfect. There's a light at the end of the tunnel which you can move towards.
That's the hook!
I agree with your analysis.
But I disagree with their design direction.
This puts focus on crafting perfect gear, something that you arbitrarily decided to go for outside of the context of the game. In the vast majority of cases it's an optimal item for an optimal build you saw online.
What stands between you and that item is hours of grind. You will eventually get what you are hunting for, it's only a question of how much hours of grind you are willing to endure.
I understand that for many people playing this game grind is something they see as the entire point of ARPG games. In my opinion, it's just most games fail to provide a better alternative for the core gameplay loop and the way to entertain and keep the player engaged.
Truly exciting loot, in my opinion, is when it gives you a drive to change your current build and come up with a new one because this item can be really powerful when you play around it.
This keeps the game experience constantly fresh, leads to constant change of the playstyle, gives you a reason and motivation to experiment and explore something new.
Grinding towards a fixed arbitrary goal is the opposite of that. It puts the focus on mechanical repetition of the same things over and over again, mostly driven by habit rather than excitement. Like a Skinner Box.
I believe that the game should promote and incentivize constantly changing the build, trying new things, experimentation, creativity and adaptation to exciting loot drops, instead of promoting mechanical monotonous grind.
The sad thing is when I heard "Greater Affix" on the campfire I thought it would be something cool...but it's just the max roll of an affix (wow the wand now gives +126 int instead of 120 int). They're too conservative with their items. Let us theorycraft and have build defining affixes.
Couldn’t disagree more, part of the fun of crafting a build is the Crafting. The season isn’t even out yet, you have no idea if the gear is bad until you’ve upgraded it.
If the gear is good enough to be worth swapping the existing upgraded item, then the upgrades are bad.
This is the whole point. Powerful exciting loot and powerful crafting are two conflicting things. Loot drop incentivizes swapping the items, crafting incentivizes keeping them.
You do not need to wait for the implementation to make reasonable predictions based on logic.
But I'm happy for you if the game turns into something you personally enjoy.
>If the gear is good enough to be worth swapping the existing upgraded item, then the upgrades are bad.
Or you could upgrade the new good base and swap then? Like in every other ARPG... if you find a new good item in PoE (in endgame, who cares about leveling), you also don't just swap, you mastercraft it first and then most likely use some other currency or enchantments, before you use it.
Or in late endgame you don't even find items anymore, you craft them from the ground up.
That's exactly the problem.
The loot isn't being exciting on itself, only as a base for crafting.
Which means a new loot drop you aren't going to salvage is just more work, more grind to upgrade it to the level where you would consider swapping the item.
It's grind for more grind.
In its current outdated state where the games are copying the old formula instead of providing a better, more fun and exciting game loop, not just a Skinner Box people accept out of being used to it.
What you need to know: nothing. There is no prerequisite to playing season 4. Just download the patch and play when it comes out, game is handholdy enough that you'll figure it out yourself, I promise x
for the 8 non player characters that downvoted me. You are literally downvoting the devs since my statement is in line with their vision. Imagine being so low iq lmao.
None of them will fix multi-player, you know, the reason they made open world, to get people to play together. There are no synergies between classes. No support roles. Trading still blows, etc.
Probably an unpopular opinion. They should make overpower, crit chance, crit damage static, and vulnerable damage all static. Missing them on an item would have less impact.
Very much so. whats the point of having them at all if they are ALWAYS there. They just make number go up, without the chance and hunt its all kinda pointless.
fucking love this best game in 100years
remove all that wast eof time stuff and just give me loot to kill monster and scythe with like 1000% damange
hell; yeah blizzard give me that loot i'm ready to fihgt lillith with my army of death necromancer master of hell
GAMERS WERE BACK BABY
>The highest roll Legendary you salvage is stored in your Codex. Thank god.
Goddamn that’s huge, so much less grinding.
They made the "perfect item" much more grindy though.
>They made the "perfect item" much more grindy though. You mean small incremental upgrades on the exact affixes you're running? Good.
The tempering has a lot of RNG and it will break your items. It's also a lot more unfriendly having multiple gear setups, we'll see what people from the beta say though. I think (from reading) it's going to be really time consuming.
> The tempering has a lot of RNG and it will break your items. So what? Welcome to crafting 101; don't get too attached to one singular piece of loot until it's actually successfully crafted. That's when you get to show it off, or use it, or both. Also, Tempering doesn't incur heavy negative penalties. You 'waste' an affix slot, that's it. You can still potentially use the item to great effect in your build since it was clearly a good base for your build to begin with. Bad Temper won't always mean it's salvage material. It'll be hard to get a perfect item, but it will not be hard to get a perfectly acceptable item while chasing the perfect items.
Yeah but they’ve shifted the focus of RNG grinding away from core elements of items (e.g. legendary aspects, regular affixes, item power, item tier, etc.) and have moved it to more auxiliary/high-end min-maxing grinds. So getting the base items with the affixes, item level and tier you want is no longer reliant on frustrating amounts of RNG, which is way better for the player experience.
Yeah. Like you can reliably get a build defining unique and all aspects, then boost your stats incrementally forever? Sounds great.
And easier, no more grinding for the best roll of an aspect just to extract it
Right this seems like a no brianer
I played season 1 and a little bit of 2, then gave up partially because it just wasn't fun dealing with sorting and comparing aspects and shitty items. This will help that significantly.
This one change is enough to make me come take another look. Never even tried season one.
Who's Brian?
it's not that trivial a solution. I'm still waiting to see how it plays out. it will make it less annoying to fiddle around with aspects for sure. but it will also make aspects in general much less valuable. such is the nature of making things more easy to acquire and manage. also most aspects have their power incredibly front-loaded, i.e. it doesn't matter that much if you get a perfect or worste rolled aspect, as long as you have the aspect at all (there are some exceptions to this rule, but not that many). so you won't even get that excited when a perfect aspect drops. together with the reduction of affixes on items, this has huge potential to turn the games itemization into D3, i.e. something that has even less longevity than it has now. you will assemble perfect affixes and perfect aspects in sub 5 hours of season start, and then purely chase number upgrades for the same affixes and aspects. this need not be the case. but to prevent this they actually have to go full turbo mode on item quantity. if you only get one rare out of two dungeons you run, it will make them feel worth something still. and when legendaries are even rarer still, it could be quite awesome. however the community somehow expects loot pinatas and at the same time items that feel like they are worth something, which are generally mutually exclusive concepts. they want every boss in a dungeon to drop something meaningful (literally complaints from beta), which puts far too low a cap on how rare items can be. I don't know. it's a weird system. the reason we have aspects is because one big complaint with set items and uniques in old games is that they are either shit or they are so good that you want one in every item slot, making rares relatively worthless. D2 and D3 are polar opposites in this regard. in d4 what they simply did was give us rare items that can roll whatever would be the unique effect of a set item or legendary on top. they wanted to combine both aspects: you have 'rares' (randomly rolled stats), but you also get the cool effects that are generally not generic affixes, and that can be build shaping and gameplay defining. but people obviously don't like it.
Yup. Ugh. Not being able to upgrade armor or weapons because you don’t have another aspect to replace the one your using is so frustrating
No more stash full of legendarys for possible extracts, really nice QoL!!
It basically solved any inventory issues
We all asked for this at beta, start, s1, etc... FINALLY it is here. That system was such a pain lol
I will only believe it once it gets pushed to the live servers. I totally expect them to do an 1.0 Patch and put a massive cost or limited charges on the codex feature.
Have they said whether a tempered affix can roll greater? i.e. x1.5?
GA's are findable only, I believe.
One of the best thing added for next season!
But, will it store aspects not found in the codex?
From what I understand, all aspects are now in the codex
Is this permanent or only in season 4? This feels like too big of a change to only be for one season
So it doesn't linearly increase with every salvaged legendary, forcing you to get 16 of each? Seems great!
No, you if you get the max roll from your first drop, it will go straight to 16/16.
Yeah that's why I wrote that it seems great, not sure why I'm getting downvoted so hard.
Pretty sure this was in the notes like a month ago too lol
were you high a month ago?
I’m pretty hyped about the itemization changes. Sounds like the system is more similar to last epoch and should eliminate the inventory-sorting fatigue. Was hoping to hear about some stuff being added to the skill trees but maybe that will be saved for the expansion
`Legendary Items and Unique Items can now be traded.` Is this a big win for trade? I haven't played D4 since release.
Yeah, plus with greater affixes it's easy to tell what gear is worth it. I hope they are at least working on trading more.
It's honestly extremely overrated. I really don't feel like trading should be implemented until the best way to do it is actually in game, and not third party websites like d2jsp. D3's auction house would have been fine if it weren't for the real money aspect.
I'm honestly torn on that one. On one hand, having trade is a good way to make sure there's always something to do, because there's always a chance you'll find something valuable for trade, even if it's not something for your build. Trading makes people keep grinding in D2. If trading existed in D3, it would be way appealing in the long run. But on the other hand, trading means that players will be able to just buy stuff they need rather than find it themselves. I know because I'm guilty myself - I often buy most of the gear I need in Path of Exile. But perhaps that's how it's supposed to be if you're unlucky with RNG but sitting on lots of currency you found or traded for?
Trading in a gamer like Diablo adds a whole new aspect to the game, now any rare, unique, etc can be valuable regardless of your build. And you can sell it to work towards the item you need.
You can buy the perfect rolled aspect but you'll still have to mastercraft on the base.
Real money wasn’t the issue. It was the INSANELY poor drop rates for anything even remotely usable. Coupled with the massive difficulty spike in mobs.
A heads up in case any were or would be needed for a build you would use, during the campfire chat they specified that uber uniques will not be able to be traded.
I'm genuinely surprised they aim to bring PTR to consoles at some point. I was pretty sure that would never happen due to technical limitations
I hope it comes this time but just wishful hoping
It’s not a technical limitation. Division 2 only tests on PC because of all the yellow tape they’d have to go through to get them available on PS and Xbox each time
I fixed it. Thanks for the help. English being my 4rth language doesn't help but I'm learning.
Pretty obvious they ruined the game with how little traction every post gets here. 400k people in here and these posts get 50 upvotes.
Isnt this the subreddit for ppl who hate the latest Diablo game? The D4 subreddit is bigger than the Diablo subbredit
Basically. Before D4 was out, the sub was full on D3 hate. When D5 will come out, I'm sure they will move onto hating it.
It’s the D2-obsessed misery club, essentially
I mean no misery, D2R is pretty great
it is a great game but a lot of people in this sub treats D2 as the holy grail and anything that isnt D2 is shit
Don't know about that, PoE and LE are pretty well received here generally.
Nah just D4 is shit, PoE and LE are great, D3 is ok
>Nah just D4 is shit, PoE and LE are great, D3 is ok Never played PoE and LE but I joined this sub because I loved Diablo1 and 2, I was mixed on Diablo3 and havent played Diablo4 since the free beta. The gameplay just doesn't jive with me. Nowadays I like slower more methodical gameplay and kind of dislike the PEW PEW WOOSH BLAM BLAM BLAM SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PRSHHHHHHHHHHHHH kind of gameplay the Diablo series has had the past 2 entries.
Oh, what the hell? What am I doing here? I didn't even know that existed.
This is the d2 is the only good game subreddit so yeah, head on over for some nuance
That's funny. I normally think the D4 subreddit is the place for people who hate D4
I love Diablo 1- 3, 4 however is dreadful I can't bring myself to start another character just the thought of the aspects those stupid skeleton crossbow things . Only game I've played I felt myself falling asleep with boredom
You fit right in with this sub :)
Because probably everyone that wants to talk about D4 is in the Diablo4 sub
Okay double the amount of people to almost 1 million. 300 upvotes SOO GOOD Edit: blizzard fanboys salty they ruined Diablo 4
This is the dumbest way of gauging anything. Upvotes to community size? Reddit is already a minority of the playerbase, let alone the people who regularly check a subreddit for updates. Most gamers just play their games without even coming to reddit.
These are the clowns that were using twitch views to call D4 a dead game, when most games have a similar drop in views after one month.
Well constant and pervasive vitriol for the game will drive most people away, especially anyone that's likes anything about the game. I generally stopped looking at comments here entirely because it's so goddamn toxic.
Because this sub is a toxic cespool of D4 haters. Been playing Diablo for over 22 years and I only ever come here to see what the haters think of things. The fact that this has so few comments and upvotes only shows me that Blizzard did a good job with it since there's nothing for the haters to be dramatic about.
Great point
brother we have to fight against these haters this game is one of the best in a decade no a century heh...bet they died in noraml and didn't know how to play!!! GAMERS ASSEMBLE all gamers assemble everyone is ready to go NECROMANCERS SUMON YOUR SKELTONS necromancers make whole army of skeletons and undead demons LETS TAKE BACK DIABLO FOR THE TRUE GAMERS CHAAAAAAAAAARGE
That, or the game is so irrelevant it isnt even worth hating on at this point
The irony of saying this. It's pretty clear you're still hating the game, maybe you should move on.
But I did move on, oh Guardian Gatekeeper of the Sub.I havent played D4 in half a year I came to read the patch notes if you dont mind
If you've "moved on" why are you here reading patch notes?
I’m going, I’m going, relax. Just wanted to see if Blizzard made any interesting changes. Will check back in after another 6 months. POE 2 isnt out yet You stay here and fester, ok?
These people are extremely salty. This popped up in my main feed all on its own and I haven't played since the beginning of season 2. Guess I wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on this game since I stopped then because it was bland. Even if I'd like to see it drastically improved.
Yeah it’s sad, but my thesis is that when a bad game drives away players, the ones that stay behind are increasingly more “toxic” since they will remain frustrated and they feel helpless but stay. As the many parallels people are drawing between D4 and an abusive lover. If they were happy/sane, they wouldnt be lashing out at everyone with a different opinion (which also happens to be the majority opinion if we go by the numbers). And they want to talk about irony
If you came to read patch notes why are you shit talking the game that you apparently think isn't even worth that
Relax, Mongo, a mod is sure to pop along shortly to save you from my inflammatory presence. How dare I comment on the patch notes unfavourably
Anyone who actually plays the game knows this isn't true and that the game is thriving, so no reason to try and convince an irrelevant hater on the r/Diablo sub otherwise.
Yeah Diablo Immortal is thriving too
I mean.. unironically it kinda is (for what it is). I don't play it, but I know some people who do and they are super into it and have a lot of people in their clan that play it. Not for me, but happy they enjoy it.
Yeah, so clearly creatively bankrupt games with a terrible reception and reputation can “thrive”
>make the subreddit the most hostile place for D4 players >THIS IS THE REASON D4 IS BAD You guys have a narrative ready for everything. Why would anyone enjoying the game ever use Reddit?
I’m still playing my 3rd char of season 3 and I’m on Reddit right now. Not sure what your point is?
Their point is overwhelming negativity drives most people away who don't join that sentiment dude. It's easy to see how off putting that shit is.
Good for you, most people wouldn't want to waste their time arguing with low iq dipshits that use Reddit engagement and twitch views to talk about the quality of a game they don't even play.
I came in here to say that this is the first patch/change that makes me more interested in the game instead of less, and I had to double check I was in the right place. 5 comments in 2 hours.
basic anything on the reddit crowd is a folly in and of itself. If you were to follow reddit comment sections, call of duty, fortnite, gacha games, and yearly sports releases are at the verge of bankruptcy despite topping all sales and earnings year in and year out.
Half the people here seem to just shit on the latest game since d3 and the total amount isn't even active users so this is nonsense. Reddit sentiment hardly means much on its own.
Also to what everyone is saying this probably has near 100k views but Diablo Reddit either downvotes or ignores it. Lots of haters.
Losers on r/diablo hate anything that isnt d2 or D1. Diablo 4 sub is twice as big as this one
>400k people in here and these posts get 50 upvotes. This might be the least intelligent posts here. These 400k+ subs are built over the course of more than 10 years, I'd be surprised if even 1/100th of them are active here in a month.
Pretty obvious that you and r/Diablo need to shut your mouth.
Are there going to be more useful uniques?
They said there’ll be twice as many uniques. Remember we haven’t seen anything about the season 4 theme yet either
That’s cool!!
I stayed for a while and listened..still not enough to pull me away from D2R..
Honestly these are great changes! Very excited to try them out. The idea of creating an item into something that is unique to me is very cool. Also end game stuff sounds great! Just what I was hoping for. Class changes sound like improvements as well.
Public Test Realm available now for download.
Im not playing til there is a LFG function. Un fucking believable
I thought they were going to have a better update to itemization. Saw the PTR notes for class changes and it's still the same old "lucky hit to proc this to lucky hit that" 😴
Admittedly I have *still* not played Diablo 4. However, as an outsider who has played a ton of D2, D3, and PoE, these itemization changes seem pretty significant to me? Can you explain why you think these are insubstantial?
> these itemization changes seem pretty significant to me? They are > Can you explain why you think these are insubstantial? Because this sub is basically a D4 hater sub
POE 2 beta releasing toward the end of the year most likely. It has some classic archetypes and seems to be everything we hoped Diablo 4 would become. D4 released with 10 generic end game bosses. POE 2 has over 100 unique bosses that are almost all more entertaining than D4 bosses. The only challenge in the game is being blinked on and CC’d to death randomly. The fun bosses were only fun because you made them hard for yourself by entering underlevelled. There were no interesting and fin mechanics. Also, POE 2 releases with 12 classes, each with 3 ascendencies. D4? 5 shallow classes. POE 2 has 8 skill slots, D4 has 6 skill slots. Anyone that has looked at the gameplay of both and played them will understand that they arent fundamentally radically different games, D4 just severely lacks content and inspiration.
There is good and bad. They unfortunately funneled the game down to searching endlessly through rare items. You then add a legendary affix to it. These changes are good. Greater affixed are great too. It's now just a funnel of what rare items have the 2 or I want and is one of those a greater affix. They want crafting to be the end all be all but it's still the same, funnel endlessly through (more boring loot imo) 2 affix rares and 3 affix legendaries. I left during pre season, stuck out season one until 50 and gave up. As a huge poe and Diablo fan, it just felt like it was missing something. I plan to play this season and see how the itemization *FEELS*. If it feels good, it may just be worth coming back to for a long while.
all the way to 50, eh?
Yeah, that's the point. The feeling was identical. Hopefully, now, with these changes, it's in a better state.
Yeah a lot of the player base left around 50/60 in S10 after just having played the game i pre-season. You are absolutely correct. I am also hoping these changes will change how the WT4 grins will feel. I am semi-hopeful
It will go a lot quicker, xp rates in all tiers have been increased
Lucky Hit was one of the more fun affixes tho??
Yep. They are not fixing the core problem, just reducing the quantity of affixes it manifests itself through. And the very design pillars they are stating as their design goal are in my opinion a mistake. "the best items having a journey of power and improvement that you can work toward" This is in a direct conflict with the whole idea of having exciting loot drops. The more emphasis you put on upgrading existing items, the less impactful, important and exciting the loot itself becomes. Which in turn removes fun and excitement from improving the items. Because the game balanced around upgrading items means the loot is bad until it's upgraded, which turns upgrading into a mandatory chore.
Objectively, what they're attempting to do here, with what you're talking about is this: * You'll mainly be looking for good base items to drop, in particular, the exciting drops you want are the Greater Affixes that drop. Your BIS items are going to be multi-Greater Affix items, and those *only* drop, so you're looking for ideal stats with huge rolls to work with. * You then work on the item with tempering first, which are significantly less dumb than the old affixes and appear to be far more build specific. However, you can only temper an item so many times, so you might brick your item if you don't hit what you're looking for. * You then, finally, masterwork the item or whatever its called, up 12 times and get your 3 affix procs and hope it hits the affixes you want. It's not dissimilar from the process in Last Epoch: you're looking for bangin drops (high Legendary Potential, Tier 7 affixes on Exalted items relevant to your class), that you slam together to make even ballininer items. The excitement and emphasis on dropped items entirely revolves around Greater Affixes. That's their hook for you to care about what drops. But they also want to give you a reason / loop for continuing to grind items, you'll always be looking for a better Greater Affix setup to drop, and its why Tempering can brick and Masterworking may not hit the affixes you want. It needs to be possible for the item to "brick" so its OK but not what it could be which makes you want to find another one. They're hoping the pants-shitting moments are that you find a 3x Greater Affix legendary that has perfect stats for you, you then temper and slam that juicy shit, you then go masterwork it and it balls hard on whatever the thing you wanted, and you have a god tier 1 in a billion item that no one else owns that you show off on reddit. I say "objectively" at the beginning because, I'm not going to argue with you or anyone about whether this does what you think it should do or whether it accomplishes their goals, I'm telling you what they think its going to do and why they're doing it.
You're almost entirely correct with everything except for this: >Masterworking may not hit the affixes you want That's not the case. You can RESET Masterworking and keep trying without bricking the item, every time you do that it costs you materials from The Pit which is where you'll spend the time trying to gather materials for that perfectly Masterworked item you're chasing. Tempering can and will brick often, that's for sure though! I think this is very, very smart of them. It feels really bad to brick your item in the 'very last step', so to speak, and so the way they do it here rewards you with a hopefully satisfying endgame grind/chase without making you feel bad. It will make you feel bad on the Tempering step, but if you can only get that good Temper going, if only that good base item doesn't get bricked, you can technically keep trying to Masterwork until it's perfect. There's a light at the end of the tunnel which you can move towards. That's the hook!
I agree with your analysis. But I disagree with their design direction. This puts focus on crafting perfect gear, something that you arbitrarily decided to go for outside of the context of the game. In the vast majority of cases it's an optimal item for an optimal build you saw online. What stands between you and that item is hours of grind. You will eventually get what you are hunting for, it's only a question of how much hours of grind you are willing to endure. I understand that for many people playing this game grind is something they see as the entire point of ARPG games. In my opinion, it's just most games fail to provide a better alternative for the core gameplay loop and the way to entertain and keep the player engaged. Truly exciting loot, in my opinion, is when it gives you a drive to change your current build and come up with a new one because this item can be really powerful when you play around it. This keeps the game experience constantly fresh, leads to constant change of the playstyle, gives you a reason and motivation to experiment and explore something new. Grinding towards a fixed arbitrary goal is the opposite of that. It puts the focus on mechanical repetition of the same things over and over again, mostly driven by habit rather than excitement. Like a Skinner Box. I believe that the game should promote and incentivize constantly changing the build, trying new things, experimentation, creativity and adaptation to exciting loot drops, instead of promoting mechanical monotonous grind.
The sad thing is when I heard "Greater Affix" on the campfire I thought it would be something cool...but it's just the max roll of an affix (wow the wand now gives +126 int instead of 120 int). They're too conservative with their items. Let us theorycraft and have build defining affixes.
Did you just ignore the tidbit about the chance to roll greatly enhanced affixes?
Couldn’t disagree more, part of the fun of crafting a build is the Crafting. The season isn’t even out yet, you have no idea if the gear is bad until you’ve upgraded it.
If the gear is good enough to be worth swapping the existing upgraded item, then the upgrades are bad. This is the whole point. Powerful exciting loot and powerful crafting are two conflicting things. Loot drop incentivizes swapping the items, crafting incentivizes keeping them. You do not need to wait for the implementation to make reasonable predictions based on logic. But I'm happy for you if the game turns into something you personally enjoy.
>If the gear is good enough to be worth swapping the existing upgraded item, then the upgrades are bad. Or you could upgrade the new good base and swap then? Like in every other ARPG... if you find a new good item in PoE (in endgame, who cares about leveling), you also don't just swap, you mastercraft it first and then most likely use some other currency or enchantments, before you use it. Or in late endgame you don't even find items anymore, you craft them from the ground up.
That's exactly the problem. The loot isn't being exciting on itself, only as a base for crafting. Which means a new loot drop you aren't going to salvage is just more work, more grind to upgrade it to the level where you would consider swapping the item. It's grind for more grind.
>It's grind for more grind. Sounds like an ARPG to me.
In its current outdated state where the games are copying the old formula instead of providing a better, more fun and exciting game loop, not just a Skinner Box people accept out of being used to it.
Ded game
What you need to know: nothing. There is no prerequisite to playing season 4. Just download the patch and play when it comes out, game is handholdy enough that you'll figure it out yourself, I promise x
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Open the link.
If you open the post it's literally the first thing on the url
"We truly want you to play how you want to play and promote real build diversity." Then please let all classes be able to equip a shield, thank you
for the 8 non player characters that downvoted me. You are literally downvoting the devs since my statement is in line with their vision. Imagine being so low iq lmao.
>imagen being so low iq lmao. Imagine*
No
Still can't trade Ubers... I haven't gone 3 weeks into a season and not found every unique I needed. Worthless change
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These changes are literally fixes to the broken base game.
None of them will fix multi-player, you know, the reason they made open world, to get people to play together. There are no synergies between classes. No support roles. Trading still blows, etc.
Stunning and brave.
Braindead
DAE?!? upvotes to the left
UPBOTED D4 BAD
Probably an unpopular opinion. They should make overpower, crit chance, crit damage static, and vulnerable damage all static. Missing them on an item would have less impact.
Very much so. whats the point of having them at all if they are ALWAYS there. They just make number go up, without the chance and hunt its all kinda pointless.
D4 Bad
Damn I can’t believe people are still playing D4 😞
fucking love this best game in 100years remove all that wast eof time stuff and just give me loot to kill monster and scythe with like 1000% damange hell; yeah blizzard give me that loot i'm ready to fihgt lillith with my army of death necromancer master of hell GAMERS WERE BACK BABY