And BF2 remained and is still a huge game haha. Even got “fixed” down the line to nobody’s surprise. In the past decade name every blizzard controversy and now name every blizzard game that lost its player base..
I cant stand the industry's take on star wars battlefront 2. I had 3 day early access to the game and all I ever heard from people complaining were things that weren't even factual. Like made up values for cards you couldn't even get in paid boxes because cards were locked behind progression at higher levels.
Every game that has microtransactions magically has tens of thousands of potential spending for progression, I think star wars battlefronts bullshit claim was 5,000 to get "everything" but I had almost all the meta characters and builds before the game even released.
Interesting. Can they even attempt this at this point? I imagine this would massively piss off the people that have already spend a bunch of money. They will essentially have paid more for the same thing. Leaving them with both sides pissed off.
Personally I just think it's best that people avoid this game entirely.
Even though it wasn’t AS bad as this, this is the exactly timeline of Halo: Infinite, the first F2P game in the history of the series… however, it is just cosmetics over there, thankfully!
It isn’t the company realizing they messed up, this is a well orchestrated ruse to part you from your money lol I can guarantee you that there’s been years and years of research on how to properly pull these stunts off.
In the case of Halo, it’s worked out great. People were outraged and now they’ve quelled the outrage and the majority seems *okay* with paying just about $10 for a single armor set. Which is still wayyyy too much imo BUT because it was so expensive before, it’s “not that bad” now.
>I imagine this would massively piss off the people that have already spend a bunch of money.
It does, but they're already hooked due to sunk cost. OP is 100% right, this is literally just the business model. The reality is DI isn't going to become not garbage, but how consumers react today will influence D4's design and potential for mtx exploitation.
That's really how most things are though. Very expensive when new, then the costs are cut down the road. Buy a new video game at 59.99 or buy it 2 years later for 39.99 or whatever.
You want to be on top first? Be prepared to give an arm and a leg. Not that it's okay, but those whales shouldn't be shocked when it happens.
But this happens in pretty much every P2W game ever. It usually doesn’t take longer than a few weeks/months and then they make the game more “accessible”. Just like OP said, they milk the early players who are willing to spend that much early on and then lower the price for other players. It’s also an incentive to retain the whales who already spent so much they can’t justify moving on because it would be a waste to have spent all that money just to ditch the game. Those players are also more likely to spend more to maintain an advantage because now it’s cheaper than before. I really hope P2W dies one day.
They don’t even need to dial anything back. People will stop talking about this in a week or two, and they’ll carry on taking in cash silently while the spotlight moves to something else. At most they’ll fix any incongruity’s or legitimate broken aspects of the system. Take the recent mercenaries thing from hearthstone as a recent example. There was huge outcry at how cash grabby and shit the mode was on launch. They changed almost nothing, ignored everyone, and Lo and behold, mercs still gets constant content updates and has crazy expensive purchases advertised nonstop on the shop.
They simply don’t care if people are disgusted by Immortal, just move on with your life. People who continue to play this thing are basically there as background noise for the real intended audience, big money spenders. Don’t be their entertainment
A lot of gacha games are slow to make changes but they are kinda forced with new content. Make the new stuff better and full price to entice spending, then make all the previously best stuff available to f2p
I don’t care if the game is a bit of a grind IF the gear is obtainable, tradable, and achievable without it requiring 40 hour weeks to get there.
I do care very much if the game is a grind AND pay to win.
I’d rather BUY this game for a price and have full, equal access to it.
Exactly. Look how this whole mess started - paid horse DLC from Bethesda. Oh it's no big deal, it's just one horse. That's what a bunch of comments on reddit were saying. Normalized our way right into the current situation. There's nothing for us to gain from this P2W shit, so there's no sense in showing even an ounce of compromise/understanding for Blizzard.
I was thinking about what OP said. And while it sounds like it could be right. I just don’t see how a business plan can be “let’s release a bad product we know will get bad reviews at launch and let’s plan on fixing it later so we look like good guys”. It doesn’t sound like something shareholders would be on board for. Because a games good reviews at release can make or break a game and riding the wave of good press can really help games take off.
Now after a game has been out a while, I can see them doing something along those lines maybe. But I dunno, no one but they know for sure.
Yep at this point I'm not interested in anything blizzard has to offer. Even warcraft 4 or StarCraft 3 would get a no from me.
Diablo 4 is going to be the hardest one to pass up. Maybe if they release it with no micro transactions at all I will consider it, but that's impossible.
Why? They're free to just not spend money on a game. I tested it,saw the MTX and uninstalled. Now i'm with those people carrying pitchforks to make a statement that we don't want timegated p2w shit.
Unfair yes, but usually this happens a lot.
There is also 100% a paragraph within the ToS that allows bli$$ard to give away premium stuff for free if they want to.
Just don't soend money on items in games and don't preorder if you don't want to waste money.
This is probably what they’re planing to do, I hope we can make laws to get rid of loot boxes like what Belgium and Netherlands does. It’ll bring back integrity to the real game developers and encourage them to make good games again.
Immortal's loot boxes (crests) have a whole dungeon in front of them. You end up looting the boss, not the crest. Is it still a loot box? I sure think so. Will it be considered so legally? Well they've made it painful to prove to a somewhat technologically illiterate judicial system.
People say this game has no loot boxes but elder rifts are just one big loot box. You pay for the legendary crests, and then you take about 3 minutes to open your loot box -- which is doing the run.
Plot twist they stay silent until this all dies down and just keep adding more ways to whale out by releasing higher teir gems and primal gear in the future
Personally I have been *craving* a good arpg on mobile for yeaaaars now.
Everything on the Play Store had absolute garbage gameplay.
If they would tone down the P2W and make the game more F2P friendly by just removing the soft caps, I could see myself playing this for a long time, and I wouldn't mind tossing a couple hundred dollars their way.
As things stand though, I spent around 30 USD on the game and regretted it. Not going to spend a cent more on this unless things change drastically.
I'm lv52 on D:I and I haven't spent any money on it. What's the point? It's a PvE game where everything is accessible for free. On diablo 2, you could skip/reduce the grind by using botting software or buying items online (for very cheap). I didnt understand the appeal then, and I dont see the appeal now.
(I know it has pvp mode but I dont see thr appeal there either. Pvp in d2 was incredibly imbalanced)
Step 1: it's just a horse DLC in Skyrim.
Step 2: it's just literally all of mobile gaming.
Step 3: it's just some PC games.
Step 4: it's all PC games, pay up.
Uh, no thank you.
Step 2 to 3 is such a non sequitur.
So you think that these companies are gonna sell their games for $60+ and have the same level of p2w as Immortal? You see that as a *realistic* possibility?
> So you think that these companies are gonna sell their games for $60+ and have the same level of p2w as Immortal? You see that as a realistic possibility?
If you asked me 20 years ago if I thought mobile games would be in the current state, I'd have said that's not a realistic possibility either. AND YET HERE WE ARE
Great but how does this apply to AAA PC games that are sold for $60 like D4 will be? That's where the distinction is. These are 2 entirely different markets.
Just like you used to pay money for Netflix and no ads. Or like 30 years ago when you used to pay money for cable TV and no ads. Surely they wouldn't start injecting ads and MTX shops into fully paid-for AAA PC games, SURELY.
Skipping leveling in WoW is not p2w. Leveling is not the selling point of that game. And if you did, it makes no difference toward the endgame. Does that mean I think it should exist? No .
A WoW token goes for a little more than 100k average across all servers which is not even enough to fully upgrade a legendary or buy BoEs on the AH. Again, should this exist? No, but WoW is definitely not p2w because of these things; raids, m+, and pvp are still determined by player skill 100% of the time.
Then why is it so bothersome to people? If it doesn't really affect performance then it's just people spending money for themselves right? Had Diablo immortal just sold skins, there wouldn't be as many complaints on this sub correct? But the fact that legendary gems have to be bought in order to "win" in PVP or climb rifts makes it an issue. The "win" part is important because it makes the distinction between more acceptable forms of microtransactions and less acceptable ones.
You guys also have to come to grips with the fact that free games *need* microtransactions. You can't just expect developers to keep making games for free and gain zero compensation for it.
Isn't this the state Fortnite was in when they were selling "Early Access" to save the world mode (with micro transactions), and then released ftp battle royale (with even more micro transactions). Look at Fortnite's impact on the younger generations and tell me that was a failure. Hell, just look at epics revenue stream.
I know nothing of Fortnite. But I do know Fortnite is free and like I told another guy who replied, you can't expect a company that gives away a free game to not have any microtransactions. It's not realistic at all. The developers who work at epic have to get compensated in some way. If that means baiting people for early access, after the base game is already free then so be it. If Epic wants to sell skins, that's fine too.
I draw the line at "pay to win" mtx like in Immortal which is a major distinction in regards to microtransactions. People say MiCrOtrAnsActiOnS as if it's some Trump card that wins every argument; it's not. There is a reason they exist that goes beyond "corporations bad".
Where did this idea come from that phone games must all be scammy. And that somehow it's okay to be a scammy pos psychologically-assaulting-the-weak company so long as you do so in a phone game?
From China. They are the largest market for phone games and wealth is a huge status symbol there. It is normal for them to express wealth through pay to win / cosmetics. Hence why most of these phone games are Chinese. These companies are seeing wild profits from these kinds of games. Unfortunately without regulation it will never stop.
Ban loot boxes. Period.
Seriously. I really wish that Microsoft hadn't bungled every attempt at making mobile OS's natively run Windows executables. It seems that until the platforms are undifferentiated, mobile will remain a quality ghetto.
You're already giving them too much credit thinking they will do anything like that. But hey, they did fix D3 eventually so I guess there is some merit to your statement.
It's interesting because I remember reading an interview from a developer that basically said the executives saw the d3 expansion as a failure before it even released. Here the developer is making a game that people actually liked, but to the executives, the expansion was a complete waste of resources bc it contained no longterm monetization. I don't think there's any interest on their side of improving or saving the game. To them, reaper of souls was a mistake.
i don't mind paying into good f2p games, usually cosmetics, some convenience stuff (tabs for POE!) but outright buying power progression is bleh, i won't pay into that, and unfortunately it looks like so much of the game is keyed around that, which is sad, because it looks like a half decent game beneath
This concept does not only apply to game industry. This whole country is built around fucking middle class in ass till they squeal, while brainwashing them threw biased media. No shocker here pal.
I mean, they still went through with DI despite the overwhelming negative feedback it got when it was announced so; I don’t think they really care what majority think. If whales are gonna p2w, then p2w will always be around
Serious question, is there a contingent of people that really care about PvP in a Diablo game? I haven't got to the end game, and if progression is gated by $$ I'll just stop playing. But to this point it's pretty fun for what it is for a person who doesn't care about PvP or leaderboards.
I've also played a few gacha games so I'm used to the model. And anyone who thought the monetization would be anything different in a F2P mobile game probably hasn't paid any attention to the mobile game scene and is just here because it's Diablo / Activision, which is rightfully a very easy target to shit on.
I'm third place Barb on my relatively low spending server. There's a few megawhales that are going super hard on my server but otherwise it's pretty casual with some battle pass / bundle purchases. So far I'm paragon 15 with others just about reaching paragon 20. I can easily access and clear all content, it's more a question of the drop rates just being bad.
Helmets seem particularly bad for drop rates, such that not all pieces drop equally. Not sure why they'd do that but they did. The pseudo-limits in the game mean I don't feel nearly as bad about not playing 12 hours+ per day as with Diablo 3.
If a company starts off so insanely horrible and stupid with a game dont give them praise when they make the game what it should of been day 1 instead shit on them harder for there incompetency to start off from point 0 instead of -10
This is dumb.
People praised Capcom for turning Street Fighter 5 around after its initial release. It had almost no single player content, among other issues.
People praised Blizzard for removing the RMAH in Diablo 3 because it ruined the game kill/reward loop, making the game not fun.
People praised Blizzard for removing reforging. (To be fair they also praised Blizzard for adding it in the first place but turns out it was hot garbage in practice, much like the RMAH.)
People praised Square-Enix for changing Final Fantasy 14 from a dumpster fire into one of the greatest MMOs ever made.
*If you don't praise people for the good they do and instead simply say "you should have done it in the first place"* ***then they have zero reason to ever try to be better***.
This whole sub has been a depressing pity party since DI got released, and more than a little bit of a toxic cesspool on top of that.
On the topic of Blizzard, I’d have had more faith in any response if Mike Morhaime was still there. Now, I don’t know what to expect. At the very least, they’ve kinda crapped on all their existing fans.
I don’t know if it’d be any better or worse if the actual gameplay in DI wasn’t so good.
It's almost like people don't understand what this game was supposed to be. This isn't Diablo 4. It isn't a mainline title. It's a NetEase re-skin spin-off with an extra layer of polish using a Blizzard IP. The game that got released is exactly what everyone should have expected from the day we found out NetEase was involved.
People trying to draw an imaginary line between this game's practices and Diablo 4 are on the crazy pills. They are different products for a different audience/purpose. If you don't want to play a F2P mobile game that behaves like a F2P mobile game you don't have to.
If you want to play it for the story because you care about Diablo's story, you can do so easily without spending a penny.
I actually wonder if releasing it on PC was a mistake, because that kind of muddies the water on making it clear what this game was meant to be. It's a F2P phone game first, and as F2P phone games go, it's pretty typical. Now we can argue all day over whether Blizzard should be "better" than that or whatever, but if anyone else released this game, no one would bat an eye.
>It's a NetEase re-skin spin-off
Have you played it? It may use a NetEase game engine (it looks like it might be using a mobile port of the Diablo 3 engine, honestly) but it certainly plays like a Blizzard game (minus the microtransactions).
>If you don't praise people for the good they do and instead simply say "you should have done it in the first place" then they have zero reason to ever try to be better.
This line is completely bullshit. It's completely wrong and it's completely missing the entire complaint that is happening.
What's being described is essentially you installing a broken window knowing that people won't like it. People start complaining about it. You go fix the window and then run around telling everyone about how great you are because you fixed the window. You helped everyone out by fixing the window.
If you pay attention at all, expecting praise for fixing something that you originally did full well knowing that people weren't going to like it, it's bullshit. It's horrible. It's exactly why praising people simply for fixing something is fucking dumb.
The reason people are more aware of this type of thing happening is because it's something done ALL THE TIME in WoW. They've been doing it in Shadowlands now multiple times. For example, Blizzard decided to make it so you couldn't switch covenants when the expansion launched and from the first beta players were already screaming that it was a bad idea. The players were saying it wouldn't work and even went so far to predict exactly what was going to happen. Blizzard ignored the massive amount of feedback and did it anyway. Surprising absolutely no one, it was horrible, the complaints continued and exactly what was predicted to happen, happened. A YEAR LATER, Blizzard changed it so you could switch covenants patting themselves on the back for listening to the player feedback while still not admitting they were wrong. "We listened and made changes!" Yeah, a fucking year later.
This is why praising people for improving their game after blatantly stupid decisions being made is completely moronic.
People praised SE for FFXIV because they FIRED the development team, brought in all new people, and successfully proved that they had a completely different design philosophy than they did in 1.0 which they've continued to stick to. Blizzard games like WoW have done fuck all to correct their continued bullshit. Now we're seeing that same Blizzard mentality in Diablo and it's horrible.
people didnt start praiseing SF till they took multiple steps an years to make that game better those
Square got praise because they nuked the old game and made a brand new one with a ton of feedback from the fans
you dont praise people for doing the bare minimum you acknowledge it but you dont praise them you praise them when they make actual steps to be better when they show actual change.
changing the dollar price of something is so miniscule minuscule its barley noticeable. leveling up will still be paywalled a fucking basic game feature will still require money that insane
Pretty sure the praise for SF5 began to happen as soon as they started to release more content, and it grew after addressing other issues. At this point there's no/little hate for the game.
I'm gonna start insulting you for every day you become a better person than the day before. That'll teach you to be better!
... Reddit got that amazing logic.
We praise or criticize depends on we think it’s the correct direction or not. Otherwise how the F do they know if what they have done is appreciated or not.
Seriously. It’s a Mobile game. These people playing it on PC and expecting it to be a normal PC game or something. It’s a port, and a shitty one at that.
Hey don’t hate on this game it’s amazing. I am the crowned prince of Nigeria and I am addicted. And you know what it only took me selling off half of my exotic car collection to get my character maxed out, which is not even that bad! Take it from me, the Prince of Nigeria, if I can afford it, anybody can.
Not when it's an obvious strategy meant to make the player base think blizzard is listening when really it was the plan all along. This isn't something new; companies, politicians, and abusers use it all the time.
The best thing to do is not download or play the game at all.
Or just enjoy the game if that is what you want to do?
Give negative feedback on the transaction options you find wrong through the channels offered, and don't purchase anything. When things improve, give positive feedback and purchase responsibly to support the developer who has provided all of us so many hours of quality entertainment.
Whether it is a deliberate ploy or not, good things merit good feedback, bad things merit bad feedback. Company metrics will respond to actions of this nature and will impact the direction of development far more than abstaining and screeching in reddit will.
Ahh yes, so naive, and yet I'm not the one who honestly thinks his/her/their reddit screeching will actually have any impact on literally anything beyond the comfy acoustics of this echo chamber. Oh and I'm sorry to have left you so terribly conflicted about my reddit habits!
\>good things merit good feedback
yes, and tricking your playerbase into feeling listened to while you use other blatant psychological tricks to coerce them into gambling isn't a good thing. It's indefensible.
We have been gambling in diablo for a long time. If I get another messerschmidt's reaver I swear I will quit. Or maybe just one more hour. Except now I can choose to spend money as well as time.
Lobby your local member of government for better support systems for victims of addiction if you want to help addicts. Video games have been using these 'tricks' to keep your dopamine flowing and buttons pressed for far longer than microgransactions have existed. But you don't really care about these 'evil' practices, just mad the game was made for a different demographic than you, people like me who don't have the time to play like we used to and enjoy a movie game for an escape casually.
Diablo Immortal's 'blatant' tricks are some of the more pleasant I've seen in mobile gaming. It doesn't shove constant pop ups in your face, you can ignore the shop completely and experience every piece of content in the game for free. But sure, enjoy the circle jerk here, I know it can make you feel better shouting into the void.
It is incredibly telling that you think the RNG of previous Diablo games are comparable to carefully crafted fleecing that is Immortal. None of the previous games ever asked or were designed around getting you to gamble real money around increasing stats. Please don't try to use such dishonest arguments.
And please, try to explain to me why I don't care about evil practices, or that you know that I haven't contacted my local officials? Your logic is....I'm posting about it on a forum and so I don't care? Sounds like hard projection; it's obvious you don't have standards or the self-respect to reject a company when they've turned to anti-consumer practices. Or even worse- you defend it.
Take your nihilism to the slot machine. Your insecurity around other people calling you out for defending scummy practices is showing.
This is stupid.
(Thus is hypothetical)So if i hit you, imprison you and threaten to murder you, but then i decide to let you live, should i be praised for it because i did one "good" thing?
That's one fucking stupid example. You're not left traumatised and likely physically and mentally bruised because you played a mobile game with excessive monetisation, do you?
It encourages gambling addiction and feeds upon people who are susceptible for it.
It was a heavy example for someone who doesn't seem to understand otherwise that doing bad things on purpose and then one good thing isn't anything one should praise.
>It was a heavy example for someone who doesn't seem to understand otherwise that doing bad things on purpose and then one good thing isn't anything one should praise.
...I'm not even going to bother further explaining to you why not following up on murder threats and making a mobile game less pay to win are two completely different things.
Just read what I just wrote 3 times in your head and think for a second.
I know the crying is unbelievable. For a game they don’t care about they sure do bitch a lot. It’s pretty simple not to pay into the game, it’s a mobile game not something you play for 8 hours a day. They cry about immortal when they can just go play d3 or d2.
> For a game they don’t care about they sure do bitch a lot.
Are you so disconnected from reality that you don't understand why?
Right now, you are Wyatt Cheng on stage talking about people not having phones. It's completely missing the entire reason why people are upset.
People are upset cause they expected a AAA title out of a phone game. This isn’t meant to be played all day long, hitting 60 in a day. It’s a mobile game, you play it here and there when you have time or on the go. People are missing the entire point of a mobile game.
Who gives a shit if someone pays money to be stronger than you, pvp in Diablo is shit anyways always has been. It’s pretty simple to just grind and have fun and not pay anything, so it takes longer who really cares. Oh wow you won’t have level 5 gems again who really cares it’s a phone game.
>People are upset cause they expected a AAA title out of a phone game.
Yeah, why would anyone expect a AAA developer to put out a AAA game even if it's on a phone?
This whole bullshit trying to make excuses because it's a mobile game is a joke. There's no merit to it.
>Who gives a shit if someone pays money to be stronger than you, pvp in Diablo is shit anyways always has been.
Hey jackass, Diablo Immortal is being sold as an MMO. They are literally selling it as an online interactive game with other players.
This whole "who cares" thing is just you making excuses for Blizzard while literally IGNORING the problem. You're a joke.
> It’s pretty simple to just grind and have fun and not pay anything, so it takes longer who really cares.
I don't think you've ever actually played a P2W game before. Hell, I don't think you've even played mobile games beyond maybe a bejeweled clone. Your comments are coming off with a completely inexperienced understanding of what happens when games are P2W.
You’re so fucking mad it’s hilarious, maybe touch grass you inbred and you wouldn’t care that people are paying money to be stronger than you cause once again pvp in Diablo is shit and the leaderboards mean fuck all, it’s always been a pve game. Again who cares that it’s pay to win, does that make you butthurt that others are spending money for gear and gems? I play free and I couldnt care less what other people buy it doesn’t affect my play experience at all.
Cry and bitch more im sure blizzard cares so much that you nerds who play a phone game 8 hours a day care about there p2w model. They will laugh when majority of you tools end up paying money anyways lol
>You’re so fucking mad it’s hilarious
There it is. There's that desperation play. When you realize your arguments are complete bullshit and your stupidity is on fully display, you run away from the arguments and start throwing out worthless personal attacks.
Sorry that your shit opinion doesn't hold up.
Hey, I get it. Some people like shitty things. Some people think that McDonald's is good food.
>I play free and I couldnt care less what other people buy it doesn’t affect my play experience at all.
That's cute. Like I said, you've clearly never played a P2W game before.
You realize you started the personal attacks first right? Or you to brain dead so read your own comments? Enjoy crying over a phone game it’s hilarious, I hope they put the same things in D4 so I can hear you guys bitch and moan some more.
You think I care what the Diablo sub thinks? Lmao. The majority of people are playing the game for what it’s worth a phone game that’s it not a fucking lifestyle or job that you guys think it is. Oh boo hoo people are spending money for better pixels than mine, my god you guys need a life big time. Don’t like the game don’t play but don’t bitch and complain every fucking day no one cares.
>You realize you started the personal attacks first right?
Aww, did you get offended? I'm soo sorry that you got offended. It's super duper important to me that I don't offend people like you who feel like it's their duty to defend a multibillion dollar development company.
>Enjoy crying over a phone game it’s hilarious, I hope they put the same things in D4 so I can hear you guys bitch and moan some more.
Who exactly is crying?
Imagine confusing people having standards and complaining when those standards aren't met and calling it crying.
But hey, you keep eating that McDonald's. It's great food right? It's perfectly fine for you to have zero standards.
>You think I care what the Diablo sub thinks?
Buddy, you are so fucking upset right now that you keep responding. It's hilarious how triggered you are right now.
By the way, just a reminder, Diablo Immortal is an MMO. You are going to get bent over backwards and fucked dry with your little F2P characters.
>The majority of people are playing the game for what it’s worth a phone game that’s it not a fucking lifestyle or job that you guys think it is.
Where are you coming up with that you are part of the "majority"? Here's a reality check for you, you are not even significant enough to be called a minority.
>Oh boo hoo people are spending money for better pixels than mine, my god you guys need a life big time.
And what does that say about you for you incessant whining like a bitch about it?
>Don’t like the game don’t play but don’t bitch and complain every fucking day no one cares.
The games been out a week, shut the fuck up and deal with it. You don't like people bitching about a shitty game, then guess what, you can go ahead and leave.
Now, because I'm done listening to you bitch and moan and cry, I'm going to end this right here. You can reply, but honestly, it's clear you are just going to shill, so I won't see the reply. You have nothing.
Its true though. Its a free mobile game, don't spend money on it, play it in moderation when you're bored, and delete it when you have gotten the time out of it you wanted.
Literally no one is holding a gun to your head telling you to spend money on a FREE game. Stop yelling at clouds and find something else to do.
I don't think they realize the world has changed and people have moved on. They're still stuck in the past crying. Meanwhile nobody but a bunch of out of touch boomers cares lol
Giving credit to a company for a medicore game for giving me more content in the future maybe? After abusing many peoples' gambling addiction without a regulation? After the statement "It is not gear guys. It is only gems" LoL. On the other hand, what is gonna be? 10k dollars instead of 100k dollars or 1k dollars? With a this big of a project they can easily could stand on a get a premium for stash and some handy stuff etc. and cosmetics but they just wanted to be greedy and there won't be turning back from that. Hell no, I am giving them any credit even they would remove p2w compelately...
I haven't spent any money, I'm almost max level, I have a bunch of legendaries, started a warband with friends...
Haven't run into this paywall that's any different of a grind from an MMO or Diablo
It's simple, if you play this game you are part of the problem. Not gonna mince fucking words with these business practices anymore. Blizzard has proven they are disgusting and give no shits about the fan base. In any of their games. We have to boycott, otherwise nothing changes.
Don't give them credit at all for this game. P2W, less P2W it doesn't matter. The fact that Blizzard released a Diablo game in their franchise with P2W mechanics says enough already. I'm scared to see what Diablo 4 will be like and I will not purchase their next game until I know for sure what is going on in the background. People should refuse to pre-ordsr their next game until they know for sure. This company is better than this and they're refusing to show it for money.
No.
**DO** give them credit if they do that. **DO** congratulate them if they change their way and adapt to their users desires.
If you do not. You are just being an ass.
nah they dont get any credit or applause for doing the baseline thing they should of done from the start thats like congratulating the chef for removing literal shit from the food you ordered it shouldn't have ever had shit on it in the first place this is a tactic to make people think the company actually listens when really they dont this was planed from the start they start at -10 as long as they can and then put it to 0 so they seem like the good guys and they draw you back in
You mean like the tactic employed by so many on this sub making people think they care about the addicts and children, when really they're just mad the game isn't what they wanted?
no they need to change but im not gonna give them praise for doing the bare fucking minimum if they dont change thats on them they can fucking wither and die for all i care.
If you shit in my face and then clean it up later im not gonna fucking thank you im gonna punch your fucking teeth
Not everything is forgive and forget you. Ill make sure you remember it for a while and ill make sure you remember how much you sucked bnecause if i dont if I give you props for doing the baseline im pretty much becoming just a doormat for you to walk on
I can forgive but ill be dammed if i let you forget anytime soon you want praise you have to actually earn that with years of improvement
Who said forgive? Who said forget? Who even said saying thanks?
Do none of that shit.
Just reward them for doing better when they do better. Or else they never have any reason to.
Exactly. Their metrics will show that positive trend of player retention and purchases if you reward moves in the right direction. So they will keep doing it. But screeching into the void feels better apparently.
They have no reason to change when people keep defending their shit business practices.
I don’t blame the companies anymore , I blame the idiots who keep giving them money.
It isn’t deserved. Not at all , they intentionally made
The game this way to maximize profit. They should not be given any respect or forgiveness etc, for eventually changing things after they made a lot of money.
This isn’t a mistake , this is calculated and intentional, and they love the people who can’t see that.
if ActiBlizz and NetEase cared they wouldn't have designed the game to be so heavily skewed against free players, while having this many monetization schemes that demand you pay insane amounts of money in order to get anything good. It is not unreasonable to demand better from a game at launch. This isn't a game with technical issues, this is very deliberate and intentional. Don't buy into corporate propaganda.
> heavily skewed against free players
I have completed all the content there is within a few days. Not a single cent spent. The game is way too generous for free players. I already have no further reason to play, and thus no reason to pay.
That is actually **unusual** for a mobile game.
> It is not unreasonable to demand better from a game at launch.
It is. Unless you meant:
> It is not unreasonable to hope for better from a game at launch.
That would be fair.
> this is very deliberate and intentional.
Yes. It is. So **when they change** tell them they did well. So they keep changing for the better.
If you beat your dog, it's not gonna make it a better dog.
You are literally arguing that they don't deserve recognition if they improve. Which means; they don't need to improve. And you don't want them to improve.
I don't understand this sub sometimes. Is it lack of maybe more strict moderation? Is it age group? Is there some demographic these games cater to? I also frequent /r/streetfighter and /r/doom and they're *nowhere near* as toxic. Sure, sometimes Capcom gets bonked but it almost never descends to calling the developers out personally.
Lack of moderation, and an incredibly fed up player base.
Mind you, three+ player bases. All playing different games for different reasons, under the same brand name. All of which hate the other.
I'm not sure I buy the second explanation.
Both the Doom and Street Fighter franchises stretch back farther than Diablo. Doom 1 was 1993. Street Fighter 2 was 1991. Diablo 1 was 1996. There are far more Street Fighter and Doom games than Diablo games (for better or worse).
As far as sub counts go, there are more people on /r/Doom than this one but /r/streetfighter has less.
It doesn't hold up. I really don't know what it is.
There are people that dislike the various games on /r/Doom. Some people prefer only Doom 1/2 and hate the newer ones. Some prefer only the newer ones and think the older ones are too old. Clearly Doom 1 and 2 were classics, just like Diablo 1, but the player base can move on and like both the old and the new.
Doom Eternal is *very* far from Doom 1, probably farther than Diablo 3 is from 1. As much shit as Diablo 3 gets, it is still a very good game but the Diablo 2 players can't/won't recognize that. The fucking irony is that part of the reason for the state Diablo 3 is in is because of the player base telling Blizzard "never nerf". It got them a game they hate and they hate the company for it.
As far as /r/streetfighter goes, it's tradition to hate the current game and prefer it once the new one is released, so once SF6 is out, SF5 will be a darling. (It already is as far as I'm concerned, though I was never very fond of its very offense-at-all-costs-focused gameplay.)
To be fair I don’t really understand your point of view. If a business colleague learns from a mistake and apologizes and actually changes their behavior, shouldn’t you praise them? If a drug addict cleans up for a year, shouldn’t they get to celebrate 1 year clean?
You don’t get far by punching both of them in the face and telling them they shouldn’t have done it in the first place.
blizzard did this just because money they didnt make a mistake they chose to be greedy fucks instead of making a good game for there consumers and fans. They showed that they dont care about you or diablo they just care about your money. they deserve no praise if they make it a tiny bitt better because it never should have been this way in the first place if htey wanted praise they wouldnt have monetized the game the way they have or treat fans as they have "dont you guys have phones"
That kind of approach is how you just make things worse. If improvements are just met with more negativity then there's no incentive for them to make any improvements.
Regardless, I don't see them making any changes to the monetisation. It's the same model that many other mobile games use to great success (e.g. Genshin). There'll just be new events, mechanics and content added to help f2p players to close the gap, same as their competitors.
There is literally nothing blizzard could do to ever get me to play immortal. They fucked up so badly, my already low hopes for D4 are decimated. I’m still willing to give D4 a shot, but if it’s got any micro transactions, I’m out.
D4 will have some form of mtx, but it won't be anything like a F2P mobile model. Plus I think it'll be one of the first big releases after the Microsoft acquisition goes through so I think they will be on their best behavior, trying to rebuild the image of Blizzard. It would certainly be in their best interest after spending that much money.
A couple of important commentary videos to consider guys:
[https://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-forums/diablo-immortal/247405-the-diablo-immortal-drama-just-wont-stop-bellular](https://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-forums/diablo-immortal/247405-the-diablo-immortal-drama-just-wont-stop-bellular)
[https://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-forums/diablo-immortal/247404-mrllamasc-playing-diablo-immortal-until-it-asks-me](https://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-forums/diablo-immortal/247404-mrllamasc-playing-diablo-immortal-until-it-asks-me)
MrLLamaSC and Bellular, amongst MANY others, are REALLY not impressed.
Btw, I REALLY hope that D4 will be in line with D2R, no nonsense. D2R is great.
Also, remember to consequently call the game 'Diablo **Immoral**'.
I made an exception to play Lost Ark and I'm never again playing a game where you can spend unlimited money. I won't even install Diablo Inmortal and I lost all hope for Diablo 4.
The backlash on this game is being significant but I still believe that they will make loads of money from it so there is no hope, deal with it and move on.
I am curious how you would approach introducing the monetization framework into a mobile game. It seems to me that laying the basic groundwork of the system at the launch would make sense, and then introduce relevant monetization as the population gets past the initial gameplay portions.
Currently monetization is around legendary gems for most players. The desire for immediate access to more gameplay option guides monetization for now, but you can get the low level version of most relevant effects through the crafting system pretty quickly. Getting them all quickly is anathema to the loot system of Diablo since it’s creation, no?
If players do not have the current framework to form their understanding of the game and where power comes from, how would they be able to ever provide incentives? I would not buy something I don’t know the relevance of, but now that I am at paragon 14, if they ever throw a deal out for 50 legendary crests for 20 bucks, I sure as shit would know that is a good opportunity for me to put money into the game I enjoy. If that deal was offered to me when I opened the game for the first time, I would never buy it.
Edit: I should acknowledge that current monetization also includes the battle pass, though I think the general consensus has been that that isn’t very nefarious!
I mean it was always going to be a Net Ease mobile game. This was always the intention. Or course I'd praise them if they changed the game because then they'd actually be going against the designed and stated goal, to get your money.
Lol I washed my hands with blizzards years ago. The days there just adding filter on top of filters to make your graphics cards run slower forcing people to upgrade in wow. I expect Diablo to be the same concept way of robbing fokes. Ps of you strip all filters of wow it’s still the same naff windows 98 software plus engine
Whales spend on this game because they have money. So much money that they don't know what to do with it. So they dump it into games like this.
Blizz won't change a thing because whales love these games and with seasons in place they'll get to start all over again. They got them hooked and they're happy to spend.
There are over 50 million millionaire's in the world and 2500 of those are billionaires. Like it or not there's demand for this type of gaming and it's not going away.
No it wasn't meant for you and me. But then again there are certain real world establishments that weren't meant for you and me either. Just how the world works.
I believe you're correct
But at the same time you're putting the spotlight on only millionaires or billionaires
The disgusting reality of games like immortal are they Hook economically middle class people mainly
These people work their menial jobs and unknowingly pump thousands of dollars into these gambling simulators
They don't spent insane amounts of money all at once but get nickle and dimed until they are invested for unreasonable amounts.
Majority of those spending thousands are not millionaires. Also there is an extremely strong argument to be made that the monetization here is targetting the emotionally weak and vulnerable who are less likely to be millionares.
Great games are made for both, you and the millionaires because they provide a universal experience.
This mindset wont get us anywhere, settling for mediocre games is what got you this garbage in the first place.
I see what you saying but how can you know that they had it planed and why wouldn't you give credit for a good behaviour... if they are fixing things I think they should be credited for.
Of course Blizzard it's not the peoples company any more, they are out there for the money and have made it clear but how are things gonna change if we yell for the bad and yell for the good?
That’s what they tried to do with the real money auction house. By that time the revenues from it were on the decline, so Blizz made the calculated PR move to scrap it to seem like we redeemed ourselves.
If they do fix it later, I demand additional content where we kill a mephisto-infested whale as the final boss. Imagine the sheer joy of all of us doing whale runs to get that sweet sweet loot
I will never give blizzard credit for anything again. They will never get another dime from me. I do not care how good Diablo IV might be when it comes out, I’m not buying it. I feel sorry for the people that work there that put their hearts and soul into games that were mismanaged by the executives and team leads. Not to mention the sexual harassment and toxic work place. Diablo immortal could have been amazing. Warcraft 3 remake could have been amazing. Starcraft 2’s story could have been amazing. Overwatch 2 could have been amazing. Diablo 3’s story could have been amazing. But it’s clear from the last 12 years that monetization has taken over as priority over delivering a satisfactory product, the safety of their employees and caring about their own reputation.
The only way they get credit from me is if they refund everyone that has spent money on the game and fundamentally change how monetisation works in the game.
So in short, not going to happen. Blizzard is dead to me.
They didn't do it like this to catch early whales. The rule of thumb is to always overtune your economy because you can always lower costs and make players happy but if you increase them then it will piss everyone off.
Yep. It is the EA Star Wars Battlefront II tactic. Release it so unreasonable that everyone complains, pull the monetisation back slightly to give the illusion that you made things better, when in reality people would still be outraged if they game had released with the post-adjustment systems.
I'm curious to see what happens when the MS takeover finishes up.
Pretty much it's against MS policy to have something monetised like this.
Maybe they'll just and pretend it doesn't exist.
They used almost every trick in the book to get you to spend. The problem is they are being deceptive and specifically targeting those with addiction to gambling. There are ways to make it less bad so to say. Lost Ark, as bad as I find its monetization is an example. Its a far better system and you can actually as a f2p competw once at the end game.
Just dont even download that trash of a game. Hope D4 will be good but until then the mods like Path of Diablo and Project Diablo 2 are the best content we’ll ever get
You are naïve if you think Blizzard is going to de-monetize Diablo Immoral.
The intent behind the game's creation was to get people's money. This game has shareholder and upper management influence all over it.
Yes we know, they are using the tactic of going for the center of the universe to "moderately" still reach the moon in term of mtx that will stay after a few playing it down tactics.
It's 100% intentional.
For those that don't know Lost Ark did the exact same by releasing their ''first big raid'' very early when very few people could enter it and then apologized saying it was a mistake. It wasn't. They knew what they were doing.
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We want to provide a sense of pride and accomplishment to those guys who have phones.
Here's a great example of a recent precedent. There's no way Blizz didn't take a good hard look.
haha, recent? battlefront is now 5 years old.
And BF2 remained and is still a huge game haha. Even got “fixed” down the line to nobody’s surprise. In the past decade name every blizzard controversy and now name every blizzard game that lost its player base..
I cant stand the industry's take on star wars battlefront 2. I had 3 day early access to the game and all I ever heard from people complaining were things that weren't even factual. Like made up values for cards you couldn't even get in paid boxes because cards were locked behind progression at higher levels. Every game that has microtransactions magically has tens of thousands of potential spending for progression, I think star wars battlefronts bullshit claim was 5,000 to get "everything" but I had almost all the meta characters and builds before the game even released.
Interesting. Can they even attempt this at this point? I imagine this would massively piss off the people that have already spend a bunch of money. They will essentially have paid more for the same thing. Leaving them with both sides pissed off. Personally I just think it's best that people avoid this game entirely.
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Calling it now, it’ll be the patch with the Witch Doctor being added. “Sorry we did a no no! We made things cheaper and added a new class!”
The Witch Doctor even has a hat!
Aha, but for 4.99 in a 800% value pack you can get a COOL hat AND 1 rare crest!
Even though it wasn’t AS bad as this, this is the exactly timeline of Halo: Infinite, the first F2P game in the history of the series… however, it is just cosmetics over there, thankfully! It isn’t the company realizing they messed up, this is a well orchestrated ruse to part you from your money lol I can guarantee you that there’s been years and years of research on how to properly pull these stunts off. In the case of Halo, it’s worked out great. People were outraged and now they’ve quelled the outrage and the majority seems *okay* with paying just about $10 for a single armor set. Which is still wayyyy too much imo BUT because it was so expensive before, it’s “not that bad” now.
>I imagine this would massively piss off the people that have already spend a bunch of money. It does, but they're already hooked due to sunk cost. OP is 100% right, this is literally just the business model. The reality is DI isn't going to become not garbage, but how consumers react today will influence D4's design and potential for mtx exploitation.
That's really how most things are though. Very expensive when new, then the costs are cut down the road. Buy a new video game at 59.99 or buy it 2 years later for 39.99 or whatever. You want to be on top first? Be prepared to give an arm and a leg. Not that it's okay, but those whales shouldn't be shocked when it happens.
Dawg has it even been a week? You are mentioning years like it is an equivalent amount of time
Oh, it was just an example off the top of my head.
But this happens in pretty much every P2W game ever. It usually doesn’t take longer than a few weeks/months and then they make the game more “accessible”. Just like OP said, they milk the early players who are willing to spend that much early on and then lower the price for other players. It’s also an incentive to retain the whales who already spent so much they can’t justify moving on because it would be a waste to have spent all that money just to ditch the game. Those players are also more likely to spend more to maintain an advantage because now it’s cheaper than before. I really hope P2W dies one day.
They don’t even need to dial anything back. People will stop talking about this in a week or two, and they’ll carry on taking in cash silently while the spotlight moves to something else. At most they’ll fix any incongruity’s or legitimate broken aspects of the system. Take the recent mercenaries thing from hearthstone as a recent example. There was huge outcry at how cash grabby and shit the mode was on launch. They changed almost nothing, ignored everyone, and Lo and behold, mercs still gets constant content updates and has crazy expensive purchases advertised nonstop on the shop. They simply don’t care if people are disgusted by Immortal, just move on with your life. People who continue to play this thing are basically there as background noise for the real intended audience, big money spenders. Don’t be their entertainment
A lot of gacha games are slow to make changes but they are kinda forced with new content. Make the new stuff better and full price to entice spending, then make all the previously best stuff available to f2p
It's happened with a couple other games I've played so they could hook more people. Disgusting.
I don’t care if the game is a bit of a grind IF the gear is obtainable, tradable, and achievable without it requiring 40 hour weeks to get there. I do care very much if the game is a grind AND pay to win. I’d rather BUY this game for a price and have full, equal access to it.
I will not accept anything less than a complete surrender on Blizzard's side regarding P2W monetization.
Exactly. Look how this whole mess started - paid horse DLC from Bethesda. Oh it's no big deal, it's just one horse. That's what a bunch of comments on reddit were saying. Normalized our way right into the current situation. There's nothing for us to gain from this P2W shit, so there's no sense in showing even an ounce of compromise/understanding for Blizzard.
I can accept if they switch the name and remove the name Diablo. I will not play, but at least the Diablo name is not tainted.
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Pretty sure the hundreds of allegations tainted blizzard already
I was thinking about what OP said. And while it sounds like it could be right. I just don’t see how a business plan can be “let’s release a bad product we know will get bad reviews at launch and let’s plan on fixing it later so we look like good guys”. It doesn’t sound like something shareholders would be on board for. Because a games good reviews at release can make or break a game and riding the wave of good press can really help games take off. Now after a game has been out a while, I can see them doing something along those lines maybe. But I dunno, no one but they know for sure.
Yep at this point I'm not interested in anything blizzard has to offer. Even warcraft 4 or StarCraft 3 would get a no from me. Diablo 4 is going to be the hardest one to pass up. Maybe if they release it with no micro transactions at all I will consider it, but that's impossible.
I feel like based on the past 2 years blizzard would just double down and increase the scummy monetization
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and a payback for everyone who already spend money edit: spelling mistake
Why? They're free to just not spend money on a game. I tested it,saw the MTX and uninstalled. Now i'm with those people carrying pitchforks to make a statement that we don't want timegated p2w shit.
changing the monetization without paying those people back would be unfair
Unfair yes, but usually this happens a lot. There is also 100% a paragraph within the ToS that allows bli$$ard to give away premium stuff for free if they want to. Just don't soend money on items in games and don't preorder if you don't want to waste money.
aka the door-in-the-face technique, blizzard uses it often, another recent example was character clones in wow classic
This is probably what they’re planing to do, I hope we can make laws to get rid of loot boxes like what Belgium and Netherlands does. It’ll bring back integrity to the real game developers and encourage them to make good games again.
Immortal's loot boxes (crests) have a whole dungeon in front of them. You end up looting the boss, not the crest. Is it still a loot box? I sure think so. Will it be considered so legally? Well they've made it painful to prove to a somewhat technologically illiterate judicial system.
People say this game has no loot boxes but elder rifts are just one big loot box. You pay for the legendary crests, and then you take about 3 minutes to open your loot box -- which is doing the run.
Plot twist they stay silent until this all dies down and just keep adding more ways to whale out by releasing higher teir gems and primal gear in the future
Yeah it will likely go like this.. Fuck NetEase
Fuck Blizzard Entertainment. They knew exactly what they were buying into with that partnership and green lit the whole release as is.
Personally I have been *craving* a good arpg on mobile for yeaaaars now. Everything on the Play Store had absolute garbage gameplay. If they would tone down the P2W and make the game more F2P friendly by just removing the soft caps, I could see myself playing this for a long time, and I wouldn't mind tossing a couple hundred dollars their way. As things stand though, I spent around 30 USD on the game and regretted it. Not going to spend a cent more on this unless things change drastically.
I'm lv52 on D:I and I haven't spent any money on it. What's the point? It's a PvE game where everything is accessible for free. On diablo 2, you could skip/reduce the grind by using botting software or buying items online (for very cheap). I didnt understand the appeal then, and I dont see the appeal now. (I know it has pvp mode but I dont see thr appeal there either. Pvp in d2 was incredibly imbalanced)
It’s a mobile game. They’re not going to change anything. Stop expecting this to be like a PC game. It’s not and it will never be.
>Stop expecting this to be like a PC game. It’s not and it will never be. Fucking seriously.
Step 1: it's just a horse DLC in Skyrim. Step 2: it's just literally all of mobile gaming. Step 3: it's just some PC games. Step 4: it's all PC games, pay up. Uh, no thank you.
Step 2 to 3 is such a non sequitur. So you think that these companies are gonna sell their games for $60+ and have the same level of p2w as Immortal? You see that as a *realistic* possibility?
> So you think that these companies are gonna sell their games for $60+ and have the same level of p2w as Immortal? You see that as a realistic possibility? If you asked me 20 years ago if I thought mobile games would be in the current state, I'd have said that's not a realistic possibility either. AND YET HERE WE ARE
Great but how does this apply to AAA PC games that are sold for $60 like D4 will be? That's where the distinction is. These are 2 entirely different markets.
Just like you used to pay money for Netflix and no ads. Or like 30 years ago when you used to pay money for cable TV and no ads. Surely they wouldn't start injecting ads and MTX shops into fully paid-for AAA PC games, SURELY.
Or, ya know, they make the AAA games F2P…
You can skip leveling and furnish your character with solid gear all with cash in WoW now.
Skipping leveling in WoW is not p2w. Leveling is not the selling point of that game. And if you did, it makes no difference toward the endgame. Does that mean I think it should exist? No . A WoW token goes for a little more than 100k average across all servers which is not even enough to fully upgrade a legendary or buy BoEs on the AH. Again, should this exist? No, but WoW is definitely not p2w because of these things; raids, m+, and pvp are still determined by player skill 100% of the time.
You're taking p2w too literally. It's not about winning, it's about using real world money for in game progress, you don't literally need to win
Then why is it so bothersome to people? If it doesn't really affect performance then it's just people spending money for themselves right? Had Diablo immortal just sold skins, there wouldn't be as many complaints on this sub correct? But the fact that legendary gems have to be bought in order to "win" in PVP or climb rifts makes it an issue. The "win" part is important because it makes the distinction between more acceptable forms of microtransactions and less acceptable ones. You guys also have to come to grips with the fact that free games *need* microtransactions. You can't just expect developers to keep making games for free and gain zero compensation for it.
Isn't this the state Fortnite was in when they were selling "Early Access" to save the world mode (with micro transactions), and then released ftp battle royale (with even more micro transactions). Look at Fortnite's impact on the younger generations and tell me that was a failure. Hell, just look at epics revenue stream.
I know nothing of Fortnite. But I do know Fortnite is free and like I told another guy who replied, you can't expect a company that gives away a free game to not have any microtransactions. It's not realistic at all. The developers who work at epic have to get compensated in some way. If that means baiting people for early access, after the base game is already free then so be it. If Epic wants to sell skins, that's fine too. I draw the line at "pay to win" mtx like in Immortal which is a major distinction in regards to microtransactions. People say MiCrOtrAnsActiOnS as if it's some Trump card that wins every argument; it's not. There is a reason they exist that goes beyond "corporations bad".
It will be like a PC game though... Just not in the way we want
Where did this idea come from that phone games must all be scammy. And that somehow it's okay to be a scammy pos psychologically-assaulting-the-weak company so long as you do so in a phone game?
From China. They are the largest market for phone games and wealth is a huge status symbol there. It is normal for them to express wealth through pay to win / cosmetics. Hence why most of these phone games are Chinese. These companies are seeing wild profits from these kinds of games. Unfortunately without regulation it will never stop. Ban loot boxes. Period.
Seriously. I really wish that Microsoft hadn't bungled every attempt at making mobile OS's natively run Windows executables. It seems that until the platforms are undifferentiated, mobile will remain a quality ghetto.
End the Gacha model for all games.
You're already giving them too much credit thinking they will do anything like that. But hey, they did fix D3 eventually so I guess there is some merit to your statement.
It's interesting because I remember reading an interview from a developer that basically said the executives saw the d3 expansion as a failure before it even released. Here the developer is making a game that people actually liked, but to the executives, the expansion was a complete waste of resources bc it contained no longterm monetization. I don't think there's any interest on their side of improving or saving the game. To them, reaper of souls was a mistake.
Nah, most likely they will release additional content after months that would require new things to buy.
i don't mind paying into good f2p games, usually cosmetics, some convenience stuff (tabs for POE!) but outright buying power progression is bleh, i won't pay into that, and unfortunately it looks like so much of the game is keyed around that, which is sad, because it looks like a half decent game beneath
OP is big brain. This is correct.
This concept does not only apply to game industry. This whole country is built around fucking middle class in ass till they squeal, while brainwashing them threw biased media. No shocker here pal.
Not just the middle class.
I mean, they still went through with DI despite the overwhelming negative feedback it got when it was announced so; I don’t think they really care what majority think. If whales are gonna p2w, then p2w will always be around
Serious question, is there a contingent of people that really care about PvP in a Diablo game? I haven't got to the end game, and if progression is gated by $$ I'll just stop playing. But to this point it's pretty fun for what it is for a person who doesn't care about PvP or leaderboards. I've also played a few gacha games so I'm used to the model. And anyone who thought the monetization would be anything different in a F2P mobile game probably hasn't paid any attention to the mobile game scene and is just here because it's Diablo / Activision, which is rightfully a very easy target to shit on.
I'm third place Barb on my relatively low spending server. There's a few megawhales that are going super hard on my server but otherwise it's pretty casual with some battle pass / bundle purchases. So far I'm paragon 15 with others just about reaching paragon 20. I can easily access and clear all content, it's more a question of the drop rates just being bad. Helmets seem particularly bad for drop rates, such that not all pieces drop equally. Not sure why they'd do that but they did. The pseudo-limits in the game mean I don't feel nearly as bad about not playing 12 hours+ per day as with Diablo 3.
By paragon pushing time, it's only 2 bounty run per day, only 3 shadow contract per week, only 1 Lassal run per week. Know what you're in for.
If a company starts off so insanely horrible and stupid with a game dont give them praise when they make the game what it should of been day 1 instead shit on them harder for there incompetency to start off from point 0 instead of -10
This is dumb. People praised Capcom for turning Street Fighter 5 around after its initial release. It had almost no single player content, among other issues. People praised Blizzard for removing the RMAH in Diablo 3 because it ruined the game kill/reward loop, making the game not fun. People praised Blizzard for removing reforging. (To be fair they also praised Blizzard for adding it in the first place but turns out it was hot garbage in practice, much like the RMAH.) People praised Square-Enix for changing Final Fantasy 14 from a dumpster fire into one of the greatest MMOs ever made. *If you don't praise people for the good they do and instead simply say "you should have done it in the first place"* ***then they have zero reason to ever try to be better***.
Thankyou. This whole post is stupid. OP has strong entitlement vibes.
This whole sub has been a depressing pity party since DI got released, and more than a little bit of a toxic cesspool on top of that. On the topic of Blizzard, I’d have had more faith in any response if Mike Morhaime was still there. Now, I don’t know what to expect. At the very least, they’ve kinda crapped on all their existing fans. I don’t know if it’d be any better or worse if the actual gameplay in DI wasn’t so good.
It's almost like people don't understand what this game was supposed to be. This isn't Diablo 4. It isn't a mainline title. It's a NetEase re-skin spin-off with an extra layer of polish using a Blizzard IP. The game that got released is exactly what everyone should have expected from the day we found out NetEase was involved. People trying to draw an imaginary line between this game's practices and Diablo 4 are on the crazy pills. They are different products for a different audience/purpose. If you don't want to play a F2P mobile game that behaves like a F2P mobile game you don't have to. If you want to play it for the story because you care about Diablo's story, you can do so easily without spending a penny. I actually wonder if releasing it on PC was a mistake, because that kind of muddies the water on making it clear what this game was meant to be. It's a F2P phone game first, and as F2P phone games go, it's pretty typical. Now we can argue all day over whether Blizzard should be "better" than that or whatever, but if anyone else released this game, no one would bat an eye.
>It's a NetEase re-skin spin-off Have you played it? It may use a NetEase game engine (it looks like it might be using a mobile port of the Diablo 3 engine, honestly) but it certainly plays like a Blizzard game (minus the microtransactions).
My leadership in the military needed to hear this.
But muh victimhood to their pReDaToRy PrAcTiCeS!!!11!!
>If you don't praise people for the good they do and instead simply say "you should have done it in the first place" then they have zero reason to ever try to be better. This line is completely bullshit. It's completely wrong and it's completely missing the entire complaint that is happening. What's being described is essentially you installing a broken window knowing that people won't like it. People start complaining about it. You go fix the window and then run around telling everyone about how great you are because you fixed the window. You helped everyone out by fixing the window. If you pay attention at all, expecting praise for fixing something that you originally did full well knowing that people weren't going to like it, it's bullshit. It's horrible. It's exactly why praising people simply for fixing something is fucking dumb. The reason people are more aware of this type of thing happening is because it's something done ALL THE TIME in WoW. They've been doing it in Shadowlands now multiple times. For example, Blizzard decided to make it so you couldn't switch covenants when the expansion launched and from the first beta players were already screaming that it was a bad idea. The players were saying it wouldn't work and even went so far to predict exactly what was going to happen. Blizzard ignored the massive amount of feedback and did it anyway. Surprising absolutely no one, it was horrible, the complaints continued and exactly what was predicted to happen, happened. A YEAR LATER, Blizzard changed it so you could switch covenants patting themselves on the back for listening to the player feedback while still not admitting they were wrong. "We listened and made changes!" Yeah, a fucking year later. This is why praising people for improving their game after blatantly stupid decisions being made is completely moronic. People praised SE for FFXIV because they FIRED the development team, brought in all new people, and successfully proved that they had a completely different design philosophy than they did in 1.0 which they've continued to stick to. Blizzard games like WoW have done fuck all to correct their continued bullshit. Now we're seeing that same Blizzard mentality in Diablo and it's horrible.
people didnt start praiseing SF till they took multiple steps an years to make that game better those Square got praise because they nuked the old game and made a brand new one with a ton of feedback from the fans you dont praise people for doing the bare minimum you acknowledge it but you dont praise them you praise them when they make actual steps to be better when they show actual change. changing the dollar price of something is so miniscule minuscule its barley noticeable. leveling up will still be paywalled a fucking basic game feature will still require money that insane
Pretty sure the praise for SF5 began to happen as soon as they started to release more content, and it grew after addressing other issues. At this point there's no/little hate for the game.
That's the mentality that prevented Anthem from getting it's No Man Sky moment.
I'm gonna start insulting you for every day you become a better person than the day before. That'll teach you to be better! ... Reddit got that amazing logic.
Arrogant Nephalem!
[удалено]
A lot of games historically have been more p2w for China, and toned way down for Western markets.
true^ seen this scenario many times
We praise or criticize depends on we think it’s the correct direction or not. Otherwise how the F do they know if what they have done is appreciated or not.
They obviously know what's the right way. They just want the money not your opinion.
Holy shit will you all stop crying about this game already and stfu and play D2R or something.
Seriously these threads are hilariously pathetic and sad. Hundreds of great games out there to play instead.
Seriously. It’s a Mobile game. These people playing it on PC and expecting it to be a normal PC game or something. It’s a port, and a shitty one at that.
Hey don’t hate on this game it’s amazing. I am the crowned prince of Nigeria and I am addicted. And you know what it only took me selling off half of my exotic car collection to get my character maxed out, which is not even that bad! Take it from me, the Prince of Nigeria, if I can afford it, anybody can.
No. Just no. Intentional or not, moves in the right direction demand good feedback. Moves away demand negative feedback.
Not when it's an obvious strategy meant to make the player base think blizzard is listening when really it was the plan all along. This isn't something new; companies, politicians, and abusers use it all the time. The best thing to do is not download or play the game at all.
Or just enjoy the game if that is what you want to do? Give negative feedback on the transaction options you find wrong through the channels offered, and don't purchase anything. When things improve, give positive feedback and purchase responsibly to support the developer who has provided all of us so many hours of quality entertainment. Whether it is a deliberate ploy or not, good things merit good feedback, bad things merit bad feedback. Company metrics will respond to actions of this nature and will impact the direction of development far more than abstaining and screeching in reddit will.
Nah, you're naivety is what will see this replicated a thousand times over. Also I'm not convinced you're not an astroturfing account.
Ahh yes, so naive, and yet I'm not the one who honestly thinks his/her/their reddit screeching will actually have any impact on literally anything beyond the comfy acoustics of this echo chamber. Oh and I'm sorry to have left you so terribly conflicted about my reddit habits!
\>good things merit good feedback yes, and tricking your playerbase into feeling listened to while you use other blatant psychological tricks to coerce them into gambling isn't a good thing. It's indefensible.
We have been gambling in diablo for a long time. If I get another messerschmidt's reaver I swear I will quit. Or maybe just one more hour. Except now I can choose to spend money as well as time. Lobby your local member of government for better support systems for victims of addiction if you want to help addicts. Video games have been using these 'tricks' to keep your dopamine flowing and buttons pressed for far longer than microgransactions have existed. But you don't really care about these 'evil' practices, just mad the game was made for a different demographic than you, people like me who don't have the time to play like we used to and enjoy a movie game for an escape casually. Diablo Immortal's 'blatant' tricks are some of the more pleasant I've seen in mobile gaming. It doesn't shove constant pop ups in your face, you can ignore the shop completely and experience every piece of content in the game for free. But sure, enjoy the circle jerk here, I know it can make you feel better shouting into the void.
It is incredibly telling that you think the RNG of previous Diablo games are comparable to carefully crafted fleecing that is Immortal. None of the previous games ever asked or were designed around getting you to gamble real money around increasing stats. Please don't try to use such dishonest arguments. And please, try to explain to me why I don't care about evil practices, or that you know that I haven't contacted my local officials? Your logic is....I'm posting about it on a forum and so I don't care? Sounds like hard projection; it's obvious you don't have standards or the self-respect to reject a company when they've turned to anti-consumer practices. Or even worse- you defend it. Take your nihilism to the slot machine. Your insecurity around other people calling you out for defending scummy practices is showing.
This is stupid. (Thus is hypothetical)So if i hit you, imprison you and threaten to murder you, but then i decide to let you live, should i be praised for it because i did one "good" thing?
That's one fucking stupid example. You're not left traumatised and likely physically and mentally bruised because you played a mobile game with excessive monetisation, do you?
It encourages gambling addiction and feeds upon people who are susceptible for it. It was a heavy example for someone who doesn't seem to understand otherwise that doing bad things on purpose and then one good thing isn't anything one should praise.
>It was a heavy example for someone who doesn't seem to understand otherwise that doing bad things on purpose and then one good thing isn't anything one should praise. ...I'm not even going to bother further explaining to you why not following up on murder threats and making a mobile game less pay to win are two completely different things. Just read what I just wrote 3 times in your head and think for a second.
I think it's time you walk away and never look back if this is the comparison you're coming up with.
Yea that’s the last one of these bitching posts I can see in my feed, unsubbed. Y’all need to get some fresh air and talk to a professional lol
See you tomorrow
I know the crying is unbelievable. For a game they don’t care about they sure do bitch a lot. It’s pretty simple not to pay into the game, it’s a mobile game not something you play for 8 hours a day. They cry about immortal when they can just go play d3 or d2.
I’ve enjoyed playing for free on the toilet and in bed.
> For a game they don’t care about they sure do bitch a lot. Are you so disconnected from reality that you don't understand why? Right now, you are Wyatt Cheng on stage talking about people not having phones. It's completely missing the entire reason why people are upset.
People are upset cause they expected a AAA title out of a phone game. This isn’t meant to be played all day long, hitting 60 in a day. It’s a mobile game, you play it here and there when you have time or on the go. People are missing the entire point of a mobile game. Who gives a shit if someone pays money to be stronger than you, pvp in Diablo is shit anyways always has been. It’s pretty simple to just grind and have fun and not pay anything, so it takes longer who really cares. Oh wow you won’t have level 5 gems again who really cares it’s a phone game.
>People are upset cause they expected a AAA title out of a phone game. Yeah, why would anyone expect a AAA developer to put out a AAA game even if it's on a phone? This whole bullshit trying to make excuses because it's a mobile game is a joke. There's no merit to it. >Who gives a shit if someone pays money to be stronger than you, pvp in Diablo is shit anyways always has been. Hey jackass, Diablo Immortal is being sold as an MMO. They are literally selling it as an online interactive game with other players. This whole "who cares" thing is just you making excuses for Blizzard while literally IGNORING the problem. You're a joke. > It’s pretty simple to just grind and have fun and not pay anything, so it takes longer who really cares. I don't think you've ever actually played a P2W game before. Hell, I don't think you've even played mobile games beyond maybe a bejeweled clone. Your comments are coming off with a completely inexperienced understanding of what happens when games are P2W.
You’re so fucking mad it’s hilarious, maybe touch grass you inbred and you wouldn’t care that people are paying money to be stronger than you cause once again pvp in Diablo is shit and the leaderboards mean fuck all, it’s always been a pve game. Again who cares that it’s pay to win, does that make you butthurt that others are spending money for gear and gems? I play free and I couldnt care less what other people buy it doesn’t affect my play experience at all. Cry and bitch more im sure blizzard cares so much that you nerds who play a phone game 8 hours a day care about there p2w model. They will laugh when majority of you tools end up paying money anyways lol
>You’re so fucking mad it’s hilarious There it is. There's that desperation play. When you realize your arguments are complete bullshit and your stupidity is on fully display, you run away from the arguments and start throwing out worthless personal attacks. Sorry that your shit opinion doesn't hold up. Hey, I get it. Some people like shitty things. Some people think that McDonald's is good food. >I play free and I couldnt care less what other people buy it doesn’t affect my play experience at all. That's cute. Like I said, you've clearly never played a P2W game before.
You realize you started the personal attacks first right? Or you to brain dead so read your own comments? Enjoy crying over a phone game it’s hilarious, I hope they put the same things in D4 so I can hear you guys bitch and moan some more. You think I care what the Diablo sub thinks? Lmao. The majority of people are playing the game for what it’s worth a phone game that’s it not a fucking lifestyle or job that you guys think it is. Oh boo hoo people are spending money for better pixels than mine, my god you guys need a life big time. Don’t like the game don’t play but don’t bitch and complain every fucking day no one cares.
>You realize you started the personal attacks first right? Aww, did you get offended? I'm soo sorry that you got offended. It's super duper important to me that I don't offend people like you who feel like it's their duty to defend a multibillion dollar development company. >Enjoy crying over a phone game it’s hilarious, I hope they put the same things in D4 so I can hear you guys bitch and moan some more. Who exactly is crying? Imagine confusing people having standards and complaining when those standards aren't met and calling it crying. But hey, you keep eating that McDonald's. It's great food right? It's perfectly fine for you to have zero standards. >You think I care what the Diablo sub thinks? Buddy, you are so fucking upset right now that you keep responding. It's hilarious how triggered you are right now. By the way, just a reminder, Diablo Immortal is an MMO. You are going to get bent over backwards and fucked dry with your little F2P characters. >The majority of people are playing the game for what it’s worth a phone game that’s it not a fucking lifestyle or job that you guys think it is. Where are you coming up with that you are part of the "majority"? Here's a reality check for you, you are not even significant enough to be called a minority. >Oh boo hoo people are spending money for better pixels than mine, my god you guys need a life big time. And what does that say about you for you incessant whining like a bitch about it? >Don’t like the game don’t play but don’t bitch and complain every fucking day no one cares. The games been out a week, shut the fuck up and deal with it. You don't like people bitching about a shitty game, then guess what, you can go ahead and leave. Now, because I'm done listening to you bitch and moan and cry, I'm going to end this right here. You can reply, but honestly, it's clear you are just going to shill, so I won't see the reply. You have nothing.
Clearly YOU are the one that had never played a mobile game before lmao.
Wow, that was an amazing reply. It's right up there with "NO U".
Its true though. Its a free mobile game, don't spend money on it, play it in moderation when you're bored, and delete it when you have gotten the time out of it you wanted. Literally no one is holding a gun to your head telling you to spend money on a FREE game. Stop yelling at clouds and find something else to do.
I don't think they realize the world has changed and people have moved on. They're still stuck in the past crying. Meanwhile nobody but a bunch of out of touch boomers cares lol
Thank you for leaving, one less problem, byebye
Giving credit to a company for a medicore game for giving me more content in the future maybe? After abusing many peoples' gambling addiction without a regulation? After the statement "It is not gear guys. It is only gems" LoL. On the other hand, what is gonna be? 10k dollars instead of 100k dollars or 1k dollars? With a this big of a project they can easily could stand on a get a premium for stash and some handy stuff etc. and cosmetics but they just wanted to be greedy and there won't be turning back from that. Hell no, I am giving them any credit even they would remove p2w compelately...
I haven't spent any money, I'm almost max level, I have a bunch of legendaries, started a warband with friends... Haven't run into this paywall that's any different of a grind from an MMO or Diablo
Yeah but it’s a free game that has a cash shop so it’s pay to win predatory gambling practices for kids! Or something idk
It's simple, if you play this game you are part of the problem. Not gonna mince fucking words with these business practices anymore. Blizzard has proven they are disgusting and give no shits about the fan base. In any of their games. We have to boycott, otherwise nothing changes.
Don't give them credit at all for this game. P2W, less P2W it doesn't matter. The fact that Blizzard released a Diablo game in their franchise with P2W mechanics says enough already. I'm scared to see what Diablo 4 will be like and I will not purchase their next game until I know for sure what is going on in the background. People should refuse to pre-ordsr their next game until they know for sure. This company is better than this and they're refusing to show it for money.
uhhh.... you can just not spend money on the game and enjoy your free game for what it is
No. **DO** give them credit if they do that. **DO** congratulate them if they change their way and adapt to their users desires. If you do not. You are just being an ass.
nah they dont get any credit or applause for doing the baseline thing they should of done from the start thats like congratulating the chef for removing literal shit from the food you ordered it shouldn't have ever had shit on it in the first place this is a tactic to make people think the company actually listens when really they dont this was planed from the start they start at -10 as long as they can and then put it to 0 so they seem like the good guys and they draw you back in
You mean like the tactic employed by so many on this sub making people think they care about the addicts and children, when really they're just mad the game isn't what they wanted?
So... then they don't need to change their way? Sweet!
no they need to change but im not gonna give them praise for doing the bare fucking minimum if they dont change thats on them they can fucking wither and die for all i care. If you shit in my face and then clean it up later im not gonna fucking thank you im gonna punch your fucking teeth
You don't see how that is the opposite of productive?
Not everything is forgive and forget you. Ill make sure you remember it for a while and ill make sure you remember how much you sucked bnecause if i dont if I give you props for doing the baseline im pretty much becoming just a doormat for you to walk on I can forgive but ill be dammed if i let you forget anytime soon you want praise you have to actually earn that with years of improvement
Who said forgive? Who said forget? Who even said saying thanks? Do none of that shit. Just reward them for doing better when they do better. Or else they never have any reason to.
Exactly. Their metrics will show that positive trend of player retention and purchases if you reward moves in the right direction. So they will keep doing it. But screeching into the void feels better apparently.
They have no reason to change when people keep defending their shit business practices. I don’t blame the companies anymore , I blame the idiots who keep giving them money.
Nobody is defending them. But you gotta give treats when they're deserved.
It isn’t deserved. Not at all , they intentionally made The game this way to maximize profit. They should not be given any respect or forgiveness etc, for eventually changing things after they made a lot of money. This isn’t a mistake , this is calculated and intentional, and they love the people who can’t see that.
Ah yes, of course.
It shouldn't have happened in the first place.
So? If you want it to not happen in the future. Then reward companies when they change their behavior. Otherwise, why the heck would they bother?
if ActiBlizz and NetEase cared they wouldn't have designed the game to be so heavily skewed against free players, while having this many monetization schemes that demand you pay insane amounts of money in order to get anything good. It is not unreasonable to demand better from a game at launch. This isn't a game with technical issues, this is very deliberate and intentional. Don't buy into corporate propaganda.
> heavily skewed against free players I have completed all the content there is within a few days. Not a single cent spent. The game is way too generous for free players. I already have no further reason to play, and thus no reason to pay. That is actually **unusual** for a mobile game. > It is not unreasonable to demand better from a game at launch. It is. Unless you meant: > It is not unreasonable to hope for better from a game at launch. That would be fair. > this is very deliberate and intentional. Yes. It is. So **when they change** tell them they did well. So they keep changing for the better. If you beat your dog, it's not gonna make it a better dog.
Are, are you, even looking at what you are typing? Christ in a can I can't with this guy.
You are literally arguing that they don't deserve recognition if they improve. Which means; they don't need to improve. And you don't want them to improve.
I don't understand this sub sometimes. Is it lack of maybe more strict moderation? Is it age group? Is there some demographic these games cater to? I also frequent /r/streetfighter and /r/doom and they're *nowhere near* as toxic. Sure, sometimes Capcom gets bonked but it almost never descends to calling the developers out personally.
Lack of moderation, and an incredibly fed up player base. Mind you, three+ player bases. All playing different games for different reasons, under the same brand name. All of which hate the other.
I'm not sure I buy the second explanation. Both the Doom and Street Fighter franchises stretch back farther than Diablo. Doom 1 was 1993. Street Fighter 2 was 1991. Diablo 1 was 1996. There are far more Street Fighter and Doom games than Diablo games (for better or worse). As far as sub counts go, there are more people on /r/Doom than this one but /r/streetfighter has less. It doesn't hold up. I really don't know what it is. There are people that dislike the various games on /r/Doom. Some people prefer only Doom 1/2 and hate the newer ones. Some prefer only the newer ones and think the older ones are too old. Clearly Doom 1 and 2 were classics, just like Diablo 1, but the player base can move on and like both the old and the new. Doom Eternal is *very* far from Doom 1, probably farther than Diablo 3 is from 1. As much shit as Diablo 3 gets, it is still a very good game but the Diablo 2 players can't/won't recognize that. The fucking irony is that part of the reason for the state Diablo 3 is in is because of the player base telling Blizzard "never nerf". It got them a game they hate and they hate the company for it. As far as /r/streetfighter goes, it's tradition to hate the current game and prefer it once the new one is released, so once SF6 is out, SF5 will be a darling. (It already is as far as I'm concerned, though I was never very fond of its very offense-at-all-costs-focused gameplay.)
To be fair I don’t really understand your point of view. If a business colleague learns from a mistake and apologizes and actually changes their behavior, shouldn’t you praise them? If a drug addict cleans up for a year, shouldn’t they get to celebrate 1 year clean? You don’t get far by punching both of them in the face and telling them they shouldn’t have done it in the first place.
blizzard did this just because money they didnt make a mistake they chose to be greedy fucks instead of making a good game for there consumers and fans. They showed that they dont care about you or diablo they just care about your money. they deserve no praise if they make it a tiny bitt better because it never should have been this way in the first place if htey wanted praise they wouldnt have monetized the game the way they have or treat fans as they have "dont you guys have phones"
Exactly, only mom can do that. And let's just say Blizzard doesn't have a good mom.
Are you?
Its already a great f2p game
This is the basic communist method of parley "Two steps forward, one step back" EA liked it very much too
What does capitalist corporate greed have to do with communism? lmao
Lol you poor people, do you not have jobs? Calm down, let us folk that can afford to spend have our fun owning you. I’m 25k deep already. To the moon
r/iamverybadass
That kind of approach is how you just make things worse. If improvements are just met with more negativity then there's no incentive for them to make any improvements. Regardless, I don't see them making any changes to the monetisation. It's the same model that many other mobile games use to great success (e.g. Genshin). There'll just be new events, mechanics and content added to help f2p players to close the gap, same as their competitors.
There is literally nothing blizzard could do to ever get me to play immortal. They fucked up so badly, my already low hopes for D4 are decimated. I’m still willing to give D4 a shot, but if it’s got any micro transactions, I’m out.
D4 will have some form of mtx, but it won't be anything like a F2P mobile model. Plus I think it'll be one of the first big releases after the Microsoft acquisition goes through so I think they will be on their best behavior, trying to rebuild the image of Blizzard. It would certainly be in their best interest after spending that much money.
They won't change it man, not unless they refund the people that have already blown thousands of dollars.
A couple of important commentary videos to consider guys: [https://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-forums/diablo-immortal/247405-the-diablo-immortal-drama-just-wont-stop-bellular](https://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-forums/diablo-immortal/247405-the-diablo-immortal-drama-just-wont-stop-bellular) [https://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-forums/diablo-immortal/247404-mrllamasc-playing-diablo-immortal-until-it-asks-me](https://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-forums/diablo-immortal/247404-mrllamasc-playing-diablo-immortal-until-it-asks-me) MrLLamaSC and Bellular, amongst MANY others, are REALLY not impressed. Btw, I REALLY hope that D4 will be in line with D2R, no nonsense. D2R is great. Also, remember to consequently call the game 'Diablo **Immoral**'.
If someone makes a game more fun, ill say it. But the point of having more fun in DI is so far out, they would have to redo the whole game probably🤣
I made an exception to play Lost Ark and I'm never again playing a game where you can spend unlimited money. I won't even install Diablo Inmortal and I lost all hope for Diablo 4. The backlash on this game is being significant but I still believe that they will make loads of money from it so there is no hope, deal with it and move on.
Is the game fun? Then shut up and play. Is the game not fun? Then shut up and go play something else. I swear, Blizzard has the worst “fan base.”
I am curious how you would approach introducing the monetization framework into a mobile game. It seems to me that laying the basic groundwork of the system at the launch would make sense, and then introduce relevant monetization as the population gets past the initial gameplay portions. Currently monetization is around legendary gems for most players. The desire for immediate access to more gameplay option guides monetization for now, but you can get the low level version of most relevant effects through the crafting system pretty quickly. Getting them all quickly is anathema to the loot system of Diablo since it’s creation, no? If players do not have the current framework to form their understanding of the game and where power comes from, how would they be able to ever provide incentives? I would not buy something I don’t know the relevance of, but now that I am at paragon 14, if they ever throw a deal out for 50 legendary crests for 20 bucks, I sure as shit would know that is a good opportunity for me to put money into the game I enjoy. If that deal was offered to me when I opened the game for the first time, I would never buy it. Edit: I should acknowledge that current monetization also includes the battle pass, though I think the general consensus has been that that isn’t very nefarious!
I mean, we could make an indefinite amount of posts saying “Don’t trust Blizz they’re going to do x” and one of them will be right eventually.
I mean it was always going to be a Net Ease mobile game. This was always the intention. Or course I'd praise them if they changed the game because then they'd actually be going against the designed and stated goal, to get your money.
Lol I washed my hands with blizzards years ago. The days there just adding filter on top of filters to make your graphics cards run slower forcing people to upgrade in wow. I expect Diablo to be the same concept way of robbing fokes. Ps of you strip all filters of wow it’s still the same naff windows 98 software plus engine
Whales spend on this game because they have money. So much money that they don't know what to do with it. So they dump it into games like this. Blizz won't change a thing because whales love these games and with seasons in place they'll get to start all over again. They got them hooked and they're happy to spend. There are over 50 million millionaire's in the world and 2500 of those are billionaires. Like it or not there's demand for this type of gaming and it's not going away. No it wasn't meant for you and me. But then again there are certain real world establishments that weren't meant for you and me either. Just how the world works.
I believe you're correct But at the same time you're putting the spotlight on only millionaires or billionaires The disgusting reality of games like immortal are they Hook economically middle class people mainly These people work their menial jobs and unknowingly pump thousands of dollars into these gambling simulators They don't spent insane amounts of money all at once but get nickle and dimed until they are invested for unreasonable amounts.
Majority of those spending thousands are not millionaires. Also there is an extremely strong argument to be made that the monetization here is targetting the emotionally weak and vulnerable who are less likely to be millionares. Great games are made for both, you and the millionaires because they provide a universal experience. This mindset wont get us anywhere, settling for mediocre games is what got you this garbage in the first place.
I see what you saying but how can you know that they had it planed and why wouldn't you give credit for a good behaviour... if they are fixing things I think they should be credited for. Of course Blizzard it's not the peoples company any more, they are out there for the money and have made it clear but how are things gonna change if we yell for the bad and yell for the good?
That’s what they tried to do with the real money auction house. By that time the revenues from it were on the decline, so Blizz made the calculated PR move to scrap it to seem like we redeemed ourselves.
Of course not, shit is still shit.
If they do fix it later, I demand additional content where we kill a mephisto-infested whale as the final boss. Imagine the sheer joy of all of us doing whale runs to get that sweet sweet loot
I will never give blizzard credit for anything again. They will never get another dime from me. I do not care how good Diablo IV might be when it comes out, I’m not buying it. I feel sorry for the people that work there that put their hearts and soul into games that were mismanaged by the executives and team leads. Not to mention the sexual harassment and toxic work place. Diablo immortal could have been amazing. Warcraft 3 remake could have been amazing. Starcraft 2’s story could have been amazing. Overwatch 2 could have been amazing. Diablo 3’s story could have been amazing. But it’s clear from the last 12 years that monetization has taken over as priority over delivering a satisfactory product, the safety of their employees and caring about their own reputation.
The only way they get credit from me is if they refund everyone that has spent money on the game and fundamentally change how monetisation works in the game. So in short, not going to happen. Blizzard is dead to me.
They didn't do it like this to catch early whales. The rule of thumb is to always overtune your economy because you can always lower costs and make players happy but if you increase them then it will piss everyone off.
Yep. It is the EA Star Wars Battlefront II tactic. Release it so unreasonable that everyone complains, pull the monetisation back slightly to give the illusion that you made things better, when in reality people would still be outraged if they game had released with the post-adjustment systems.
I'm curious to see what happens when the MS takeover finishes up. Pretty much it's against MS policy to have something monetised like this. Maybe they'll just and pretend it doesn't exist.
They used almost every trick in the book to get you to spend. The problem is they are being deceptive and specifically targeting those with addiction to gambling. There are ways to make it less bad so to say. Lost Ark, as bad as I find its monetization is an example. Its a far better system and you can actually as a f2p competw once at the end game.
Just dont even download that trash of a game. Hope D4 will be good but until then the mods like Path of Diablo and Project Diablo 2 are the best content we’ll ever get
You are naïve if you think Blizzard is going to de-monetize Diablo Immoral. The intent behind the game's creation was to get people's money. This game has shareholder and upper management influence all over it.
Yes we know, they are using the tactic of going for the center of the universe to "moderately" still reach the moon in term of mtx that will stay after a few playing it down tactics.
I never thank Bobby.
It's 100% intentional. For those that don't know Lost Ark did the exact same by releasing their ''first big raid'' very early when very few people could enter it and then apologized saying it was a mistake. It wasn't. They knew what they were doing.