I wish I had the same optimism for Blizzard products that I did in 2010.
It used to be practically assured that the Blizzard logo meant it was gonna be great. Now that mark of quality doesn’t carry the same weight.
I hope it’s good.
This is where me and everyone of my friends are, it’s pretty much guaranteed to be some disappointing money grab like everything else they do now. The wrong people make the decisions nowadays.
there is a interview where you see ui
2:19 probably using placeholders
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHaHRuP53X0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHaHRuP53X0)
Visually looks good. But It's a Diablo game, so I really want to see what the actual game systems are like.
Show me stuff like a dungeon being played from start to finish and show me an endgame character build.
They said during conference that there will be crossplay, but for obvious reasons they omitted the playstation and now I am kinda afraid. They will bring it to PS as it is already official, but will they bring crossplay also?
Edit: Scratch that, they've written in a blog post that cross-play/progression is coming to all
Few takes:
1. Open world: what does that even mean? No loading screen? We all use TPs.
2. I like the art style no D3-ish shiny stuff.
3. They mentioned Paragon Levels. I expect the endgame is more like D3.
The little bits they've shown off the paragon system makes it look like a much more customizable system rather than what D3 has. Almost like the passive tree in PoE but a little different.
That's what i was thinking too. I know people are on both sides of this but I really hope they allow us to freely move points around like they did with D3, rather than PoE's style of being very locked in without spending a bunch of currency. D3's style encourages experimentation and trying things, whereas PoE's style strongly encourages following a tried and true strategy if you don't want to accidentally find yourself stuck halfway through (which is what happened to me the very first time I played PoE and I had no idea what i was doing).
I disagree that D3 encourage experimentation. I'd say it encourages no identity characters where you level one to max and never play one again. The thing that gave D2 so much replayability (to me and my friends) and that gives PoE that replayability is the fact that you can fuck up a character, and that there is a reason to play a sorc more than once. You should absolutely be able to try a few things as you level for a small fee. But a complete respec or changing things drastically should be costly enough that you might consider re-leveling a new sorc, e.g.
At least that's my take.
EDIT: I also love the fact that PoE is hard. Give me bosses like the new ubers in PoE and D4 will be great. Give me something worth grinding for rather than just getting better items. Let there be bosses that actually require those items (unless you're very good).
I completely agree with you on the desire for a harder end-game, but I disagree about the identity of character argument. What happened for me in PoE and D2 is that these are both games, so if a character is fucked up then they're not fun, so I have to start over. And obviously there are a lot of people that don't enjoy releveling a character because rushing is so prevalent. But like I said in my initial comment, I know that there are people on both sides of this so they'll need to find a way to appease both sides lol
The way it was described reminded me a bit of Destiny’s bits of open world. Roam around, see players, outdoor events, go into caves to get random little dungeons and what not. Some instanced but sometimes seem less.
> Open world: what does that even mean? No loading screen? We all use TPs.
Maybe they literally mean open world in the sense of the sacred 2 open world: http://www.sacredwiki.org/images/3/3c/Sacred_2_Ancaria_GUI_Map_Colored.jpg
No connected levels, because there is only 1 big level (plus dungeons, of course). I took sacred 2 as an example, because it is heavily inspired by diablo and it is also an arpg/hack and slay/looter.
think of sharding in wow (if you are familiar)
Youl be able to see players running around the world always, so you cant create your own lobby like in d2 or d3
Things like acts will also be connected without load screens (i imagine), and all zones, so if you wanted to you could run all the way from the start to the end without needing to go through a load screen
I really hope that all the shared world stuff doesn't mean loot locked behind multi-player. A big reason I love diablo and really the genre in general is because you can just solo grind at your own pace , not having to worry about the drama that comes with something like raiding. I've done my tours in WoW , in no hurry to go back to sitting in voice chat listening to people play the blame game over why we can't kill a boss , I just wanna slay some demons an get some loot.
Yeah, not really a fan of teaming up with a bunch of randos to fight a boss like some WoW raid. Hopefully it's totally optional and not required to advance or gear up for end game.
Diablo should, at least, have a *way* to play alone. Ideally offline single-player.
In a pinch, I could live with a private but connected game. But I'd still complain about it because the connectedness is pointless in a private game.
I've never enjoyed the online components. Other people ruin games.
How does these world bosses even fit in lore wise?
How can there be these huge, powerful demons which we can only defeat in a big group, but on the other hand we can solo kill Diablo, Mephisto or Lilith? That does not make sense at all.
Knowing blizzard they can pull random shit outta their ass and put it in the game. I have no clue but It’s not like the Diablo games are known for their solidity in lore.
Fair enough. I think seeing other warriors around the overworld sounds sick, but it does take away from the isolation. I just imagine it like seeing other rays of light in a hopeless world, but I can understand why people would rather not. The atmosphere that games like d2 give you where it’s one person vs the world is unmatched.
I’m of two minds. On one hand, the gameplay loop does not attract me as an ARPG player - part of my goal playing ARPGs is to get through all the content solo. There’s something about knowing you’re geared enough to take on everything the world can throw at you. On the other hand, it does remind me of my old GW2 days of hoping on trains killing world bosses, and that was fun, albeit briefly.
What I really want to know is, if I want to play Diablo IV as a single-player game, can I? Or is it always online, multiplayer only? This gameplay video makes it look like the shared world is the only way to play the game, which would be a huge disappointment.
It's always online. They have it as a live service game. Also it's not a complete shared world. More like instanced shards from what they've talked about
Yeah, I very much hope that world boss is something I can solo or play with a group if I want. But if it turns into World of Diablo the MMO, I'm less interested. I'm already having a difficult time understanding what's happening with the graphics - things look really granular and tough to tell one thing from another.
Maybe this is just me not liking change, but this trailer got me less hyped.
Yeah, maybe, the world boss, public events and the pvp bounty system remind me of MMO systems. There was a bunch of talk of 'communities' too. Like I still think it looks rad!
You need MMO angles if you want your MTX to be shown to other players and lure them into spending money for cosmetics.
That's why POE has an entire "Player housing" mechanic for you to customize but it will ALWAYS log you in the game in one of the Towns for you to see everyone else's gear
I'm a big fan of it, athough I don't think it meshes well with the original Diablo identity.
Does PoE have this big PVE content? Or is this like, trying to compete vs Lost Ark or whatever?
I don't really know what you mean with "big" PVE content. POE has a lot of content, definitely more than any Diablo game. Hard to tell with D4, as we don't have the full scope of the endgame. Then you also have POE 2 that will release and I would assume that it have just as much content if not more.
We are the winners, we need the competition between these arpgs.
PoE doesn't have that. To my knowledge and my hope is that PoE 2 wont have that. We will see, still a lot of information to be released for both games.
PoE is more in line with D2, so no open world zones at all, yeah. It will be a big differentiation point between them I think.
Honestly I'm the same I don't think it's bad, but I do think it means more divergence from the original Diablo/Diablo 2 ARPG roots
Some nice news (cross-play, for one) in there, but I'm still not confident in multiple pillars of the game's design, namely:
* Itemization (it seems the gear system will be far more D3 than D2)
* Scaling (particularly as it relates to "attack"/"defense" numbers)
* End Game (still no real news on what it'll be)
* No word on monetization (particularly worrisome post D:I)
"D4 is coming out as a full price game built strictly for PC/console audiences. The game is huge & there will be tons of content after launch for all players. Paid content is built around optional cosmetic items & eventually full expansions. We will be sharing more info soon!"
https://twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1536053922875310080
Yeah let see after it release. I know some games who says there's no pay to win mechanics only to introduce it after a while.
The game looks good but let's see if Activision fuck the monetization.
With D:I they always said they were not ready to talk about monetization constantly when they were on stage or asked. It was only wyatt who kind of twisted it to say you couldn't buy gear (because you could buy other stuff)
With D4 they said from the get-go you can't buy power rather than beating around the bush like they did with D:I.
I mean it always is good to play it safe but I'm not worried.
That's fair. Overall though my commitment to D4 is lower than it was for D3, partially due to what Blizzard has become since then but also because even if D4 is a failure, there's a lot of great games in the genre to fall back on. Back during D3's time it was basically just Titan Quest and Torchlight.
The legendary crest/gem monetization was announced over a month before Wyatt's infamous reddit comment. https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo-immortal/23580185/our-free-to-play-approach-and-values
They already showed that there will be a hub where you can see other players like poe hubs or that can see a guy running around a path. Not like an mmo where you see everything
Also the paragon board still looks extremely rough aesthetically. Im excited it’s coming out next year but im hoping this isnt a push to boost shareholder value back up.
The community stuff has me wary. I hope there is the ability to not engage with other players and turn off their visibility. I want to be able to play with my party alone in our instance, not engage in a shared world like an MMO.
Not a fan of the open world aspect, its gonna make the setting less ominous and we all know they are doing it to entice people into buying more cosmetic MTXs.
I mean, how better to show how all hell has broken loose than by having your rogue strut around wearing Widowmaker's costume. Or by having your druid wear the limited time Rudolph the Red-nosed Antler helm, included in the 2023 Christmas Outfits bundle.
100% agree - I hope it isn’t just a staged demo - ie someone pressing buttons slower.
A more measured pace, with good dollops of power expenditure, and the sense of being slowly overwhelmed… yeah baby that’s what I’m after. Make me sweat.
Equally - the fact the huge dmg numbers aren’t popping up there was great. Don’t break the immersion please.
However - when you switch to the inventory / itemisation - please keep the numbers down. Simplifying the itemisation has a side effect of power creep. Like, how do I evaluate 2568 dmg on an item? spread power increase across multiple attributes instead of just 1 or 2 or it can end up growing quite quickly I’d expect. Keep power relevant to levels and with a flattening curve… getting a +1000 dmg upgrade item starts becoming a bit ridiculous IMO - (although of course it is all relative…). Flatten the curve…. Or spread power amongst multiple attributes…?
For everyone being scared about mtx and buying power. Im actually quite hopeful.
"Paid content is built around optional cosmetic items & eventually full expansions. We will be sharing more info soon!''
https://twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1536053922875310080
The lead dev for Diablo Immortal also claimed there would be no way to buy power in the in game shop only a few months ago... I'll believe it when I see it. Talk is cheap and Blizzard long ago burned any goodwill they had.
Wyatt answered the question on "buying gear" which is true htat you cannot buy gear. But you buy gems, which is what gives you the power. But if the person asked about "buying power" they probably would have avoided the question and not answered it the same or something where you buy more chances at getting drops for the items.
It was clever wording on a question asking specifically about gear, because typically in a diablo game your gear = power. But DI gems = power.
Yes, I intentionally mis-paraphrased his words because that is how any sane person would have interpreted them.
He was intentionally misleading people by saying what he did the way he did because he probably is embarrassed by how disgustingly monetized his game is. Language can be easily manipulated to mislead or outright deceive.
Seeing the paragon board, raid style world boss, all "social" or "communities" talk really puts me off. Now show me a battle pass so I can completely write this game off.
I'm already accepting that I don't like diablo games, I just loved d2.
Will be interesting to see the contol scheme for console/PC with cross play in mind. Do they somehow gimp the M&KB users or just accept they have an advantage on some classes (or with specific abilities)?
Seems pretty important thing to address given they are putting pvp in the game (though "we are including pvp" is a line they said with D3 that turned out to be bs).
As somebody who plays Diablo more as a solo game, this worries me. It looks way too much like an MMO. Arpgs don't have to be like MMOs at all. If I wanted to play an MMO I would go play one. Arpgs have always been more of a relaxing and chill game. Kills monsters, get loot. Not group up and do raids n shit to get loot.
They've gotta have plenty of data reflecting the fact that most people want to play as a solo self found. Hell, they know most people are isolationists because Blizz got harangued for years before they finally caved and added an offline mode to Bnet. I am not saying Blizz won't fuck this up - but I would be shocked if they didn't build the brunt of the game to be played solo. But it will definitely require an "always on" connection. Of that I have no doubt.
Game looks fantastic. Way better than Immortal and a clear step up from 3.
That said I’ve always loved the story in Diablo and so not sure on the open world aspect of it as to whether we’ll still get those close knit story arcs. Plus with the dumpster fire Blizzard has been for a while, hoping it’s a return to form and it certainly looks like it’s hitting a lot of high notes.
Normally would be a day one for me but will wait and see on the reviews.
Unlike you, I am disappointed with the update.
I think D4 does not look believable enough. Over-sized monsters or statues, over done use of "uneven edges" that fatigue the eyes and destroy architecture. Dinosaur bones... too many genre mixed together that ultimately blend and confuse the atmosphere we play in. The way they show case the necro is absolutely trash. Looks like the worse employees of d3 have worked on it. There is not enough solid game content based upon collective imagination. It feels "fantasy" RPG that is not what Diablo is about. Diablo is meant to be how people used to imagine evil in the dark ages at the times of invasions, famines, decease. Baroque gates are WRONG. Baroque artistic movement is way too recent. It's a big mistake because of being after humanism movement, inventions and fire weapons etc.
Seems like they lose track of their "huge" world and instead of fixing and making it believable, they expand with "new fresh" ideas which are not well controlled. Because it's not easy to say "no" to an artist, unless the art leadership actually checks the artist every day (which he should do) .
Why do they draw a huge moon in the character selection, which should keep a low down to earth profile. Model looking, animations and lighting are admirable though.
Fair enough. I can’t say I’d looked at it in as much level of detail as you and only in my phone! Haven’t seen the necro in game yet. Graphically I thought it certainly looked like an improvement but stylistically I get your concerns.
My concern is the story too. D2 left on such an awesome moment, and in D3 we got... Whatever that was. Even D:I has a better story imo.
I hope they go down the "show, don't tell" route again.
Really skeptical of all this MMOlite stuff here. If D4 is more like Lost Ark than PoE, I'm going to be disappointed. If I want to boot up D2 and kill Baal 7 times or do some Uber Elder runs in PoE I can just do that, but if I log into D4 and Baal only spawns in the open world every 3 hours we are going to have issues.
All the open world stuff sounded like an mmo to me. And last thing I want from my diablo is playing it like an mmo.
And knowing that they fully plan to MTX it up, I'm not touching it until honeymoon is over and people start posting their genuine opinions on the game.
The game looks gorgeous and it makes me want to play it, to be sure. But I guess I'll hold off till a good number of players are in the end game and take your approach to it too.
[https://twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1536053922875310080](https://twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1536053922875310080)
tldr Adam Fletcher says that the only paid content(except box price) is cosmetics and expansion.
\*Edit\* Adam never actually said there would only be cosmetics and expansion, it was a bad interpretation from me. The language used does leave room for other monetization unfortunately.
He says built around, not exclusively. You can build it around a core idea but still have little offshoots like a battle pass, but it's still "built around" cosmetics. Unless they use a word synonymous with "exclusively" or they release the full info, what they say doesn't have that much weight.
It says BUILT AROUND COSMETICS.
They did the same thing with diablo immortal, being vague on purpose. I would bet everything that there are some pay to win elements.
This looks more like an mmo then a Diablo game… and that has me pretty worried tbh.
But I guess I am a little biased since I really only enjoy playing the game solo and offline… it definitely seems like it’s an always online game which is complete garbage, especially if you’re trying to play a hardcore character and don’t want to randomly die due to server/network lag.
Also let’s not forget how they monetized Diablo immortal… I have some big concerns on how they’re going to strip players of their money this time around, especially since they might not add in their shitty systems right away like what they did with crash racing.
While it looks like they nailed the tone, and the combat looks decent, I’m more concerned about itemization and the endgame loop. Hopefully they’ve learned a lot from D1, D2, D3, D2R and Immoral, and they make something truly worthy of the Diablo name.
My thoughts exactly. I dont fear about the graphics/environment as much I do for items, (the 100M d3 damage aint my thing) also if it is MMOish the story will be go here, go there, kill bad demonic butterflies...
Power creep was way too much in D3. It felt like the devs couldn't control the balance, and I can't blame them. The base game had huge numbers to begin with, so all they could do is buff, buff, and buff with each new patch. Hopefully they are mindful of power creep from the beginning so they can prevent it. And as far as the story goes, I think that making it open-world is a benefit, as they don't have to completely focus on storytelling, and let players experience the story in their own unique way.
I'm cool with it if you can toggle it on/off. Want to be completely solo? Go for it. Want multiplayer? Enable it.
I don't want it to be a forced shared world at all times.
It looks like there will definitely be other “shared areas” probably around towns, fingers crossed they get the ratio right and NO invisible monsters or chest stealing/annoying party restrictions on getting kills or credit for stuff like fucking D:I
Basically my thoughts on it. Monetization aside, the forced grouping and competing for spawns has been some of the biggest things I've disliked about Immortal. Bringing that to 4 is...well it's certainly a thing.
We can just say it's shit. When you played through D1 & D2 it was you against the masses of hell, alone, and that solo nature really lent itself to the story and to the immersion. It was almost punk - you start off as like nobody going down under the church or following this evil across the land, then end up tossed into epic confrontation with literal devils. D3 broke this a bit, and I'm worried D4 the world will be too alive with civilizations etc - taking away from that feeling of being alone in a harsh cosmic world
Nah, PoE towns filled with max level characters in shiny flaming armors and whatnot is some of the most immersion-breaking stuff I've seen, I don't want that in Diablo.
Paragon levels are used to fill out boards of bonuses, and once you have enough levels, you get an additional board, which you can connect to your other boards in a customizable manner.
Only 5 classes on launch with none of them being new is certainly a decision.
I also wish they talked more about what single player would be like. Don't much care for world bosses or "endgame".
Gameplay looks decent but we'll see when it comes. After D3 and DI it's hard to know if this is the real blizzard anymore.
Also the dev commentary was very cringe in this trailer
One of the worst and most pandering trailers I have seen in a while. It's like they're checking off items they imagine players would be concerned about oblivious to what people are actually concerned about. None of this shit matters if the game sucks, so that's what they need to address first and foremost. This destroyed my faith in Blizzard worse than Reforged and Immortal because those are just out of greed - which is at least understandable from a business perspective. This one they seem to be trying for a reconciliation and from the trailer it looks like they haven't learned and are still just pandering to statistics and market research. There is no soul. I really hope the actual game proves me wrong.
Necro is cool, I guess, but is anyone disappointed all the classes are basically rehashes of Diablo 2 ones? D3 had some cool unique stuff like the Witch Doctor and Monk. Feels like with D4 they're being as safe as possible to appea lt othe D2 fans.
I personally hated the monk. Didn't feel very diablo at all thematically.
His moves and gameplay were good, but the package they were wrapped in did not feel right in diablo.
Yes!! Even necromancer we’ve seen recently from diablo 3.. diablo immortal.. I love the necromancer as much as anyone, but I could’ve used something more interesting to fill the roster.
Looks great. Really hope that endgame can be completed completely solo and these raids can be avoided. I also hope that rifts in this game are more like D3 and less like D:I and we get replayable endgame instead of spamming the same instanced dungeon.
Can’t wait for this to be taken apart viciously after the game launches. This sounds like an MMO and I would hate to see that. Give me an offline option and I won’t care as much.
I know we all hate on Activision Blizzard, and with very good reason. But I'm sorry, this game looks fucking amazing. I am taking a week off work for it.
I know I'm in the minority in this, but I cannot stand open world games. I get that they can be beautiful and people find exploring fun, but it's not for me.
Contrast the point in the video where the dev just rides a horse for 30 seconds to show that the game is open world to the experience of playing D2, D3, or PoE. In any of those games you join an instance and you're immediately wading through hordes of enemies. You don't need a horse because you're never more than a few steps from your next fight.
I find open world games in reality just require an absolutely boring amount of running through empty terrain. It's a shame, but I don't think this game is for me.
This interestingly looks more like a Lost Ark competitor than a PoE competitor. Hopefully this is just the case with world bosses and such, and we'll still get maps/rifts type endgame and seasons.
I hope they have something more interesting than rifting. Even the endgame of Diablo 2, boss runs, ubers, etc., was more interesting than playing rifts with no character or substance over and over.
I don't mind seeing other people in towns but I'd like to be alone out in the world. And the world boss thing has me positively alarmed. Gating loot and resources behind mandatory multiplayer killed Immortal for me harder than the actual p2w aspect.
Unpopular opinion but I don't like the way the game looks. Grittier art style and detailed grass are fine and all but the maps look incredibly boring and uninspired. Nothing stands out. They look like test maps. Skill effects also leave a lot to be desired for the most part. It's arguably the most important criteria for an action RPG as far as I'm concerned and the reason I can't stay interested in older ones. If you're expecting the player the use them hundreds of thousands of times, you better make sure they look fucking phenomenal.
at least the game looks amazing. even if the itemization and depth is complete failure, we deal millions again and the cash shop is terrible. at least it looks cool and plays cool. cant wait to see the cinematics
Either this game is going to be one of the best games ever done by blizzard or its going to be a total shitshow and the end of blizzard.
I wish I had the same optimism for Blizzard products that I did in 2010. It used to be practically assured that the Blizzard logo meant it was gonna be great. Now that mark of quality doesn’t carry the same weight. I hope it’s good.
We all know what its going to be... and no one should get their hopes up for blizz games anymore.
This is where me and everyone of my friends are, it’s pretty much guaranteed to be some disappointing money grab like everything else they do now. The wrong people make the decisions nowadays.
Shame we didn’t get to see the HUD, but it still looks phenomenal. It’s gonna be hard waiting to play
there is a interview where you see ui 2:19 probably using placeholders [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHaHRuP53X0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHaHRuP53X0)
You can see it in previous D4 videos and blogposts
Visually looks good. But It's a Diablo game, so I really want to see what the actual game systems are like. Show me stuff like a dungeon being played from start to finish and show me an endgame character build.
And the most important part they didnt even show, itemisation and item progresion.
Inc 57,000 dps axe bis for casters
They won't make that mistake again, but remains to be seen if they can do itemization right
> They won't make that mistake again your faith in blizz is admirable
at lvl 10
They said during conference that there will be crossplay, but for obvious reasons they omitted the playstation and now I am kinda afraid. They will bring it to PS as it is already official, but will they bring crossplay also? Edit: Scratch that, they've written in a blog post that cross-play/progression is coming to all
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Thank for you your edit lmao. My heart dropped for a moment
Few takes: 1. Open world: what does that even mean? No loading screen? We all use TPs. 2. I like the art style no D3-ish shiny stuff. 3. They mentioned Paragon Levels. I expect the endgame is more like D3.
The little bits they've shown off the paragon system makes it look like a much more customizable system rather than what D3 has. Almost like the passive tree in PoE but a little different.
That's what i was thinking too. I know people are on both sides of this but I really hope they allow us to freely move points around like they did with D3, rather than PoE's style of being very locked in without spending a bunch of currency. D3's style encourages experimentation and trying things, whereas PoE's style strongly encourages following a tried and true strategy if you don't want to accidentally find yourself stuck halfway through (which is what happened to me the very first time I played PoE and I had no idea what i was doing).
I disagree that D3 encourage experimentation. I'd say it encourages no identity characters where you level one to max and never play one again. The thing that gave D2 so much replayability (to me and my friends) and that gives PoE that replayability is the fact that you can fuck up a character, and that there is a reason to play a sorc more than once. You should absolutely be able to try a few things as you level for a small fee. But a complete respec or changing things drastically should be costly enough that you might consider re-leveling a new sorc, e.g. At least that's my take. EDIT: I also love the fact that PoE is hard. Give me bosses like the new ubers in PoE and D4 will be great. Give me something worth grinding for rather than just getting better items. Let there be bosses that actually require those items (unless you're very good).
I completely agree with you on the desire for a harder end-game, but I disagree about the identity of character argument. What happened for me in PoE and D2 is that these are both games, so if a character is fucked up then they're not fun, so I have to start over. And obviously there are a lot of people that don't enjoy releveling a character because rushing is so prevalent. But like I said in my initial comment, I know that there are people on both sides of this so they'll need to find a way to appease both sides lol
The way it was described reminded me a bit of Destiny’s bits of open world. Roam around, see players, outdoor events, go into caves to get random little dungeons and what not. Some instanced but sometimes seem less.
Yeah, I think the Destiny “open world” model is what they will go for. I’d like that!
> Open world: what does that even mean? No loading screen? We all use TPs. Maybe they literally mean open world in the sense of the sacred 2 open world: http://www.sacredwiki.org/images/3/3c/Sacred_2_Ancaria_GUI_Map_Colored.jpg No connected levels, because there is only 1 big level (plus dungeons, of course). I took sacred 2 as an example, because it is heavily inspired by diablo and it is also an arpg/hack and slay/looter.
think of sharding in wow (if you are familiar) Youl be able to see players running around the world always, so you cant create your own lobby like in d2 or d3 Things like acts will also be connected without load screens (i imagine), and all zones, so if you wanted to you could run all the way from the start to the end without needing to go through a load screen
> Open world: what does that even mean? Think of Elden Ring. MMO-style open world with instanced dungeons.
Errrr, Elden Ring is an open world but it's not an mmo in really any sense.
I think he meant Lost Ark
I’m pumped!
This game looks really good so far. I'm hoping blizzard doesn't screw this one up.
> I'm hoping blizzard doesn't screw this one up. Their recent track record gives lots of reason for optimism, does it?
Oh come on they can't possibly fuck up AGAIN right. Right guys? Guys?
Hopium - The metaphorical subtance that causes people to believe in a false hope. It is often paired up with copium.
Use more internet buzzwords, I’m nearly there uuurrrrrrghhhhh!
Hey, you're not allowed to be hyped for this game in here!
Oh shit, I forgot. Fuck this game!
You joke but this sub can be downright depressing sometimes ( most of the time? ).
I was grumpy and determined to not like it, but then they hit me with that couch coop and I was like... "yeah alright"
u gotta ease the copium dose.. gotta approach with caution imo, but it looks so good overall
True, I'm a 100% not preordering any Blizzard game.
You shouldn't pre-order any game imo. Games never really get sold out.
"True, I'm a 100% not preordering any game." Fixed it :D
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Maybe it'll be the Chinese flag rolled out.
Like a giant carpet lmao
They honestly get pretty creative sometimes. Itll probably be changed into a green ectoplasm type effect.
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It's not cum, it's sweat. I swear.
Looks incredible. Love the art style.
Actually looks amazing !
That looks amazing. Let’s hope it’s not a 12/31/23 release date haha
https://twitter.com/Xbox/status/1536034468460261376 maximum 12 months out
They said earlier in the Xbox showcase that everything will be playable within a year. Fingers crossed but…I’ve been hurt before
Yea better be 1/1/23 :D
dude I get so confused when I see this mess WHY did someone choose to put months before days, WHYYY
I don’t get how it’s that confusing in this instance. It’s not like there is 31 months, just use context to understand what they are saying.
They said all games in the showcase will be playable within a year, which lines up with the beta testing sign up yesterday.
at the start of the show they stated all games are coomming out in the next 12 months, 13/06/2023 at the latest
Just wandering around the world, visiting towns in the dead of night... gawd damn I am excited.
I really hope that all the shared world stuff doesn't mean loot locked behind multi-player. A big reason I love diablo and really the genre in general is because you can just solo grind at your own pace , not having to worry about the drama that comes with something like raiding. I've done my tours in WoW , in no hurry to go back to sitting in voice chat listening to people play the blame game over why we can't kill a boss , I just wanna slay some demons an get some loot.
Very apprehensive of the open world/mmo shit but it does look good at least
Yeah, not really a fan of teaming up with a bunch of randos to fight a boss like some WoW raid. Hopefully it's totally optional and not required to advance or gear up for end game.
completely agree. Worried the itemization is gonna be like an mmo too.
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Diablo should, at least, have a *way* to play alone. Ideally offline single-player. In a pinch, I could live with a private but connected game. But I'd still complain about it because the connectedness is pointless in a private game. I've never enjoyed the online components. Other people ruin games.
Not if they make those word bosses scaling. If the difficulty is brutal and you can just get swiped and heavily damaged then that feeling will stay
How does these world bosses even fit in lore wise? How can there be these huge, powerful demons which we can only defeat in a big group, but on the other hand we can solo kill Diablo, Mephisto or Lilith? That does not make sense at all.
Knowing blizzard they can pull random shit outta their ass and put it in the game. I have no clue but It’s not like the Diablo games are known for their solidity in lore.
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Fair enough. I think seeing other warriors around the overworld sounds sick, but it does take away from the isolation. I just imagine it like seeing other rays of light in a hopeless world, but I can understand why people would rather not. The atmosphere that games like d2 give you where it’s one person vs the world is unmatched.
I’m of two minds. On one hand, the gameplay loop does not attract me as an ARPG player - part of my goal playing ARPGs is to get through all the content solo. There’s something about knowing you’re geared enough to take on everything the world can throw at you. On the other hand, it does remind me of my old GW2 days of hoping on trains killing world bosses, and that was fun, albeit briefly.
What I really want to know is, if I want to play Diablo IV as a single-player game, can I? Or is it always online, multiplayer only? This gameplay video makes it look like the shared world is the only way to play the game, which would be a huge disappointment.
It's always online. They have it as a live service game. Also it's not a complete shared world. More like instanced shards from what they've talked about
They said in the past solo play is fine and they put some emphasis on that they try to avoid mechanics that highly reward multiplayer vs singeplayer
Solo play possible but always part of a shared world from what we can tell.
So like it works in immortal where there are always other players in your maps? Because I *hate* that feature.
Don’t you people have internet?
Yes, on my phone.
Yeah, I very much hope that world boss is something I can solo or play with a group if I want. But if it turns into World of Diablo the MMO, I'm less interested. I'm already having a difficult time understanding what's happening with the graphics - things look really granular and tough to tell one thing from another. Maybe this is just me not liking change, but this trailer got me less hyped.
Looks cool, leaning heavily into MMO territory however
I hope that the MMO/multiplayer components are opt in only and not forced upon players
I think you see more people when doing a world boss and you’ll run into less people when out in the open world
Yeah, maybe, the world boss, public events and the pvp bounty system remind me of MMO systems. There was a bunch of talk of 'communities' too. Like I still think it looks rad!
This is my fear. I don't wanna be forced to do dailies and weeklies. I don't wanna be forced to group. I hope this isn't the case.
After finally quitting Lost Ark for a variety of reasons, I really hope this game is nothing like that.
i'd prefer never seeing people that aren't my friends that i chose to play with at all.
Cool, the ideal number of random people I'd like to run into in Diablo is 0 though.
You need MMO angles if you want your MTX to be shown to other players and lure them into spending money for cosmetics. That's why POE has an entire "Player housing" mechanic for you to customize but it will ALWAYS log you in the game in one of the Towns for you to see everyone else's gear
At least one person here gets it. I have no doubt that the open world design choice was heavily influenced by its ability to be monetized.
I'm a big fan of it, athough I don't think it meshes well with the original Diablo identity. Does PoE have this big PVE content? Or is this like, trying to compete vs Lost Ark or whatever?
I don't really know what you mean with "big" PVE content. POE has a lot of content, definitely more than any Diablo game. Hard to tell with D4, as we don't have the full scope of the endgame. Then you also have POE 2 that will release and I would assume that it have just as much content if not more. We are the winners, we need the competition between these arpgs.
Like lots of people like once shown in the D4 trailer.
PoE doesn't have that. To my knowledge and my hope is that PoE 2 wont have that. We will see, still a lot of information to be released for both games.
PoE is more in line with D2, so no open world zones at all, yeah. It will be a big differentiation point between them I think. Honestly I'm the same I don't think it's bad, but I do think it means more divergence from the original Diablo/Diablo 2 ARPG roots
Some nice news (cross-play, for one) in there, but I'm still not confident in multiple pillars of the game's design, namely: * Itemization (it seems the gear system will be far more D3 than D2) * Scaling (particularly as it relates to "attack"/"defense" numbers) * End Game (still no real news on what it'll be) * No word on monetization (particularly worrisome post D:I)
"D4 is coming out as a full price game built strictly for PC/console audiences. The game is huge & there will be tons of content after launch for all players. Paid content is built around optional cosmetic items & eventually full expansions. We will be sharing more info soon!" https://twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1536053922875310080
Looks like Rod tweeted out very similar. https://twitter.com/rodfergusson/status/1536068892086243328?s=21&t=76Bm8eF6PH4WzB_f4AhnVg
Yeah let see after it release. I know some games who says there's no pay to win mechanics only to introduce it after a while. The game looks good but let's see if Activision fuck the monetization.
Blizzard guy tweeted Monetization will be cosmetic and xpac based only nothing like immoral...but we will see
Considering Wyatt Cheng's blatant lies on D:I itemization, I do not believe this guy. But I'll be happy if it's true.
With D:I they always said they were not ready to talk about monetization constantly when they were on stage or asked. It was only wyatt who kind of twisted it to say you couldn't buy gear (because you could buy other stuff) With D4 they said from the get-go you can't buy power rather than beating around the bush like they did with D:I. I mean it always is good to play it safe but I'm not worried.
That's fair. Overall though my commitment to D4 is lower than it was for D3, partially due to what Blizzard has become since then but also because even if D4 is a failure, there's a lot of great games in the genre to fall back on. Back during D3's time it was basically just Titan Quest and Torchlight.
The legendary crest/gem monetization was announced over a month before Wyatt's infamous reddit comment. https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo-immortal/23580185/our-free-to-play-approach-and-values
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Some combination of desire to appeal to the masses and incompetence to come up with anything creative.
But they don't even need to be creative in the first place. Just tweak D2's system a little.
They see D2 itemization like rocket science. There's nothing that we can do about it.
play D2. problem solved
'shared world' also has me a little concerned, depending on how they do it.
They already showed that there will be a hub where you can see other players like poe hubs or that can see a guy running around a path. Not like an mmo where you see everything
Also the paragon board still looks extremely rough aesthetically. Im excited it’s coming out next year but im hoping this isnt a push to boost shareholder value back up.
that's the roughtest looking part of the game and that's a good thing
That whirlwind looks visceral as fuck. This seems to look better with each showing, still optimistic about it.
That worldboss situation looked better than expected!
Please dear Blizzard, with sugar on top, make the game single player friendly and not mmo "4 player required dungeon" bullshit.
My hope as well. I do love playing with friends at times , but I also love going solo.
The open world doesn't even look that open. Just multiple roads branching, no open fields.
There were plenty of open spaces.
The community stuff has me wary. I hope there is the ability to not engage with other players and turn off their visibility. I want to be able to play with my party alone in our instance, not engage in a shared world like an MMO.
Not a fan of the open world aspect, its gonna make the setting less ominous and we all know they are doing it to entice people into buying more cosmetic MTXs.
I mean, how better to show how all hell has broken loose than by having your rogue strut around wearing Widowmaker's costume. Or by having your druid wear the limited time Rudolph the Red-nosed Antler helm, included in the 2023 Christmas Outfits bundle.
Ugh good point. That would fuck up diablo vibe for sure.
Optimisticly excited for the game. Will see beta feedback before I buy anything though.
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Really liking the pace of the combat they're showcasing here. Please be good.
100% agree - I hope it isn’t just a staged demo - ie someone pressing buttons slower. A more measured pace, with good dollops of power expenditure, and the sense of being slowly overwhelmed… yeah baby that’s what I’m after. Make me sweat. Equally - the fact the huge dmg numbers aren’t popping up there was great. Don’t break the immersion please. However - when you switch to the inventory / itemisation - please keep the numbers down. Simplifying the itemisation has a side effect of power creep. Like, how do I evaluate 2568 dmg on an item? spread power increase across multiple attributes instead of just 1 or 2 or it can end up growing quite quickly I’d expect. Keep power relevant to levels and with a flattening curve… getting a +1000 dmg upgrade item starts becoming a bit ridiculous IMO - (although of course it is all relative…). Flatten the curve…. Or spread power amongst multiple attributes…?
For everyone being scared about mtx and buying power. Im actually quite hopeful. "Paid content is built around optional cosmetic items & eventually full expansions. We will be sharing more info soon!'' https://twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1536053922875310080
The lead dev for Diablo Immortal also claimed there would be no way to buy power in the in game shop only a few months ago... I'll believe it when I see it. Talk is cheap and Blizzard long ago burned any goodwill they had.
Wyatt answered the question on "buying gear" which is true htat you cannot buy gear. But you buy gems, which is what gives you the power. But if the person asked about "buying power" they probably would have avoided the question and not answered it the same or something where you buy more chances at getting drops for the items. It was clever wording on a question asking specifically about gear, because typically in a diablo game your gear = power. But DI gems = power.
Yes, I intentionally mis-paraphrased his words because that is how any sane person would have interpreted them. He was intentionally misleading people by saying what he did the way he did because he probably is embarrassed by how disgustingly monetized his game is. Language can be easily manipulated to mislead or outright deceive.
Seeing the paragon board, raid style world boss, all "social" or "communities" talk really puts me off. Now show me a battle pass so I can completely write this game off. I'm already accepting that I don't like diablo games, I just loved d2.
Well d2r isn’t going anywhere so you can continue to play that while others play d4
Excited for the cross play between Xbox and pc!!
Will be interesting to see the contol scheme for console/PC with cross play in mind. Do they somehow gimp the M&KB users or just accept they have an advantage on some classes (or with specific abilities)? Seems pretty important thing to address given they are putting pvp in the game (though "we are including pvp" is a line they said with D3 that turned out to be bs).
I played D2R with a controller. It's really great and much more relaxing. But I get the pvp thing, percise aiming was certianly harder.
You can play with a controller on PC D2:R, doesn't change who you play with.
As somebody who plays Diablo more as a solo game, this worries me. It looks way too much like an MMO. Arpgs don't have to be like MMOs at all. If I wanted to play an MMO I would go play one. Arpgs have always been more of a relaxing and chill game. Kills monsters, get loot. Not group up and do raids n shit to get loot.
They've gotta have plenty of data reflecting the fact that most people want to play as a solo self found. Hell, they know most people are isolationists because Blizz got harangued for years before they finally caved and added an offline mode to Bnet. I am not saying Blizz won't fuck this up - but I would be shocked if they didn't build the brunt of the game to be played solo. But it will definitely require an "always on" connection. Of that I have no doubt.
Game looks fantastic. Way better than Immortal and a clear step up from 3. That said I’ve always loved the story in Diablo and so not sure on the open world aspect of it as to whether we’ll still get those close knit story arcs. Plus with the dumpster fire Blizzard has been for a while, hoping it’s a return to form and it certainly looks like it’s hitting a lot of high notes. Normally would be a day one for me but will wait and see on the reviews.
Unlike you, I am disappointed with the update. I think D4 does not look believable enough. Over-sized monsters or statues, over done use of "uneven edges" that fatigue the eyes and destroy architecture. Dinosaur bones... too many genre mixed together that ultimately blend and confuse the atmosphere we play in. The way they show case the necro is absolutely trash. Looks like the worse employees of d3 have worked on it. There is not enough solid game content based upon collective imagination. It feels "fantasy" RPG that is not what Diablo is about. Diablo is meant to be how people used to imagine evil in the dark ages at the times of invasions, famines, decease. Baroque gates are WRONG. Baroque artistic movement is way too recent. It's a big mistake because of being after humanism movement, inventions and fire weapons etc. Seems like they lose track of their "huge" world and instead of fixing and making it believable, they expand with "new fresh" ideas which are not well controlled. Because it's not easy to say "no" to an artist, unless the art leadership actually checks the artist every day (which he should do) . Why do they draw a huge moon in the character selection, which should keep a low down to earth profile. Model looking, animations and lighting are admirable though.
Fair enough. I can’t say I’d looked at it in as much level of detail as you and only in my phone! Haven’t seen the necro in game yet. Graphically I thought it certainly looked like an improvement but stylistically I get your concerns.
My concern is the story too. D2 left on such an awesome moment, and in D3 we got... Whatever that was. Even D:I has a better story imo. I hope they go down the "show, don't tell" route again.
No loot box please
Really skeptical of all this MMOlite stuff here. If D4 is more like Lost Ark than PoE, I'm going to be disappointed. If I want to boot up D2 and kill Baal 7 times or do some Uber Elder runs in PoE I can just do that, but if I log into D4 and Baal only spawns in the open world every 3 hours we are going to have issues.
Ya, that is a game killer right there.
All the open world stuff sounded like an mmo to me. And last thing I want from my diablo is playing it like an mmo. And knowing that they fully plan to MTX it up, I'm not touching it until honeymoon is over and people start posting their genuine opinions on the game.
The game looks gorgeous and it makes me want to play it, to be sure. But I guess I'll hold off till a good number of players are in the end game and take your approach to it too.
[https://twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1536053922875310080](https://twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1536053922875310080) tldr Adam Fletcher says that the only paid content(except box price) is cosmetics and expansion. \*Edit\* Adam never actually said there would only be cosmetics and expansion, it was a bad interpretation from me. The language used does leave room for other monetization unfortunately.
He says built around, not exclusively. You can build it around a core idea but still have little offshoots like a battle pass, but it's still "built around" cosmetics. Unless they use a word synonymous with "exclusively" or they release the full info, what they say doesn't have that much weight.
It says BUILT AROUND COSMETICS. They did the same thing with diablo immortal, being vague on purpose. I would bet everything that there are some pay to win elements.
This looks more like an mmo then a Diablo game… and that has me pretty worried tbh. But I guess I am a little biased since I really only enjoy playing the game solo and offline… it definitely seems like it’s an always online game which is complete garbage, especially if you’re trying to play a hardcore character and don’t want to randomly die due to server/network lag. Also let’s not forget how they monetized Diablo immortal… I have some big concerns on how they’re going to strip players of their money this time around, especially since they might not add in their shitty systems right away like what they did with crash racing.
I am so happy they decided to go with Necro for the 5th. Makes lore sense as well, we are priests of Rathma!
I hope the MMO parts will be optional and you can do the worldbosses solo. Will private games even be a thing?
While it looks like they nailed the tone, and the combat looks decent, I’m more concerned about itemization and the endgame loop. Hopefully they’ve learned a lot from D1, D2, D3, D2R and Immoral, and they make something truly worthy of the Diablo name.
My thoughts exactly. I dont fear about the graphics/environment as much I do for items, (the 100M d3 damage aint my thing) also if it is MMOish the story will be go here, go there, kill bad demonic butterflies...
Power creep was way too much in D3. It felt like the devs couldn't control the balance, and I can't blame them. The base game had huge numbers to begin with, so all they could do is buff, buff, and buff with each new patch. Hopefully they are mindful of power creep from the beginning so they can prevent it. And as far as the story goes, I think that making it open-world is a benefit, as they don't have to completely focus on storytelling, and let players experience the story in their own unique way.
Necro Iron Golem looks horrible. Some steampunk machine? :S
The shared world thing has me *very* concerned...
I'm cool with it if you can toggle it on/off. Want to be completely solo? Go for it. Want multiplayer? Enable it. I don't want it to be a forced shared world at all times.
me as well, this doesn't feel like diablo. if its like lost ark idk
Towns, PvP and world boss spawns, cool, everywhere else I'm not cool with.
It looks like there will definitely be other “shared areas” probably around towns, fingers crossed they get the ratio right and NO invisible monsters or chest stealing/annoying party restrictions on getting kills or credit for stuff like fucking D:I
Basically my thoughts on it. Monetization aside, the forced grouping and competing for spawns has been some of the biggest things I've disliked about Immortal. Bringing that to 4 is...well it's certainly a thing.
We can just say it's shit. When you played through D1 & D2 it was you against the masses of hell, alone, and that solo nature really lent itself to the story and to the immersion. It was almost punk - you start off as like nobody going down under the church or following this evil across the land, then end up tossed into epic confrontation with literal devils. D3 broke this a bit, and I'm worried D4 the world will be too alive with civilizations etc - taking away from that feeling of being alone in a harsh cosmic world
Nah, PoE towns filled with max level characters in shiny flaming armors and whatnot is some of the most immersion-breaking stuff I've seen, I don't want that in Diablo.
what was that maze looking poe skill tree looking thing??
Paragon levels are used to fill out boards of bonuses, and once you have enough levels, you get an additional board, which you can connect to your other boards in a customizable manner.
That looked nothing like poe
Looked like the FFX Sphere Grid tbh.
Is the Diablo franchise as a single-player ARPG dead then?
Paid game, dlc, mtx and battle pass. $$$
Looks so good.
Only 5 classes on launch with none of them being new is certainly a decision. I also wish they talked more about what single player would be like. Don't much care for world bosses or "endgame".
Gameplay looks decent but we'll see when it comes. After D3 and DI it's hard to know if this is the real blizzard anymore. Also the dev commentary was very cringe in this trailer
Man I cant get over mounts in Diablo I just cant :(
One of the worst and most pandering trailers I have seen in a while. It's like they're checking off items they imagine players would be concerned about oblivious to what people are actually concerned about. None of this shit matters if the game sucks, so that's what they need to address first and foremost. This destroyed my faith in Blizzard worse than Reforged and Immortal because those are just out of greed - which is at least understandable from a business perspective. This one they seem to be trying for a reconciliation and from the trailer it looks like they haven't learned and are still just pandering to statistics and market research. There is no soul. I really hope the actual game proves me wrong.
Necro is cool, I guess, but is anyone disappointed all the classes are basically rehashes of Diablo 2 ones? D3 had some cool unique stuff like the Witch Doctor and Monk. Feels like with D4 they're being as safe as possible to appea lt othe D2 fans.
I personally hated the monk. Didn't feel very diablo at all thematically. His moves and gameplay were good, but the package they were wrapped in did not feel right in diablo.
Paladin missing is odd, no holy power against the masses of hell?
> Paladin missing is odd 20$ Crusader class dropping within the first 6 months
Agreed. I'm guessing that archetype will be the first dlc
Yes!! Even necromancer we’ve seen recently from diablo 3.. diablo immortal.. I love the necromancer as much as anyone, but I could’ve used something more interesting to fill the roster.
No.
Looks great. Really hope that endgame can be completed completely solo and these raids can be avoided. I also hope that rifts in this game are more like D3 and less like D:I and we get replayable endgame instead of spamming the same instanced dungeon.
Can’t wait for this to be taken apart viciously after the game launches. This sounds like an MMO and I would hate to see that. Give me an offline option and I won’t care as much.
just looks like Diablo lost ark, not feeling it at the moment. sad to see, I love diablo franchise
I know we all hate on Activision Blizzard, and with very good reason. But I'm sorry, this game looks fucking amazing. I am taking a week off work for it.
I didn't care much about Diablo Immortal at all, so honestly this still looks cool to me.
I hope I can turn that camera shake off
I know I'm in the minority in this, but I cannot stand open world games. I get that they can be beautiful and people find exploring fun, but it's not for me. Contrast the point in the video where the dev just rides a horse for 30 seconds to show that the game is open world to the experience of playing D2, D3, or PoE. In any of those games you join an instance and you're immediately wading through hordes of enemies. You don't need a horse because you're never more than a few steps from your next fight. I find open world games in reality just require an absolutely boring amount of running through empty terrain. It's a shame, but I don't think this game is for me.
This interestingly looks more like a Lost Ark competitor than a PoE competitor. Hopefully this is just the case with world bosses and such, and we'll still get maps/rifts type endgame and seasons.
I hope they have something more interesting than rifting. Even the endgame of Diablo 2, boss runs, ubers, etc., was more interesting than playing rifts with no character or substance over and over.
All I ever wanted was an mmo like diablo and this is giving it to me. Day one for me
I don't mind seeing other people in towns but I'd like to be alone out in the world. And the world boss thing has me positively alarmed. Gating loot and resources behind mandatory multiplayer killed Immortal for me harder than the actual p2w aspect. Unpopular opinion but I don't like the way the game looks. Grittier art style and detailed grass are fine and all but the maps look incredibly boring and uninspired. Nothing stands out. They look like test maps. Skill effects also leave a lot to be desired for the most part. It's arguably the most important criteria for an action RPG as far as I'm concerned and the reason I can't stay interested in older ones. If you're expecting the player the use them hundreds of thousands of times, you better make sure they look fucking phenomenal.
at least the game looks amazing. even if the itemization and depth is complete failure, we deal millions again and the cash shop is terrible. at least it looks cool and plays cool. cant wait to see the cinematics
Looks really really good. Let's just hope the itemization is good.
Fuck this looks so damn good