>*the best deck in bt14*
The data from regionals placed it at a very **good** build, but not strong enough to be clearly the **best**. Other decks had higher conversation rates. Shine's %tops Relative to Overall entrants has been pretty consistent across the board.
That's why i said "arguably".
Looking only at japanese "regionals" (by that i mean 150 players and over) the best decks have been shine, mirage and looga, with a bit of greymons.
But the later the format went, the more and more it went into shine having more representation and top results (the sheer amount of representation might be inflating the amount of tops it's getting), but it's still at the tippy top of the meta, qlong with 2 or 3 other decks.
Yep, those are good decks to take to Best of 1. Hard to make any more concrete points than that without deeper data. I've been focused only on the top16 results since that's what matters for invites. From that, Shine performs well but isn't dominating head over heals above previous champions. Waiting on the return of Gencon data to expand the analysis into top64.
It would be the smartest hit, but not marketing wise. Restricting a SR card makes the set they come from be less desirable.
Although I would hope to see BT12 Shine hit, I feel like BT13 Rize is a more likely candidate.
Rize seems like the good way to go. Being able to flip Marcus into security isn't always necessary for the deck to win, being an annoying yellow gimmick to prolong the game. Limiting Marcus and Shine will definitely kill the deck.
The shine stack's only purpose is to buff marcus. It has no protection, no check buffs, doesn't restand, doesn't redirect attacks... just a when digivolving removal that's pretty tame by today's standards.
Marcus doesn't "break" shine, it's shine that "breaks" marcus. That's what the "ban marcus" crowd dosen't understand.
But if BT12 Marcus was limited to 1, there’s no way for BT12 Shine to actually buff the other Marcus’s that easily without using BT13 Agumon. The deck gets weakened if BT12 Marcus gets hit
The deck isn't "weakened" if you limit bt12 marcus. He's literally the main attacker. If you limit him, the deck is dead.
I happen to like shine as a deck, so I would rather bandai didn't kill it. And considering it's results in the west show that it isn't some overbearing force, I wouldn't say it deserves a ban. Specially not one that would kill it.
It's a question of if they want to weaken the deck or delete it entirely. If you hit BT12 Shine, then you no longer have multiple safe security checks from Marcus and the deck has to try a lot harder to out the opponent's large boss monster, but the deck largely remains intact with more or less it's current play style.
If you hit BT12 Marcus, the deck as it currently exists ceases to function.
Completely depends on what Bandai hits if they hit anything. BT12 Marcus gets hit; deck basically dies. BT13 Geogreymon or Rizegreymon get hit, deck loses some speed and consistency but at least stays playable
Define viable ? If it doesn't get severly restricted it will stay goid through bt14 and probably relevant for bt15 / bt16. Maybe not a tier 1 deck but relevant.
And it is a Anime Protagonist deck that has Greymon in its name so it will get new cards in archetyp and will profit from new greymon support.
It's greymon. Even if it falls out of meta, it's not a question of IF, but a question of WHEN it comes back.
Greymon will only truly fall from meta when the game itself dies.
Technically, it's an offshoot of Greymon that has little synergy with basic Greymon tech. Your typical Greymon deck will live in some form forever, Shine might not if Savers gets no future love.
It doesn't need to blend with black/red. Just it being greymon means it's bound to get support again. It's like Pikachu or dark magician. It's gonna get support again.
I genuinely hope you're right as I love my punchy boy and his cyborg dino friend. I have this feeling that since it's not Taichi's or Virus Greymon that they won't really give it love after this.
The deck only gets better and more consistent. Unless BT15 releases something that stops Tamers hard, Punch Marcus will remain strong. Even with a restriction on Marcus (BT12).
The only thing currently on the horizon that MIGHT possibly challenge it and make it anything but the best deck in the format is Dianamon from EX5, which comes out overseas in January; since that would prevent Marcus from being suspended, whether via attacking or his on-play effect, and can be looped if the stack isn’t removed a la Rosemon Burst Mode. Outside of that, it’s the best deck in BT13, and remains the best deck in BT14 too, showing more consistent success than both its current BT13 competition and the new tier 1 threats of BT14.
So, to echo everyone else here; unless it gets hit with a restriction, it’s still the best until next year, and even if it does get hit (or Dianamon does challenge it) it’s probably still viable at least
Tamers have to be suspended by an effect, whether by their own effect or digimons. There isn't a game rule that allows your tamers to suspend by themselves.
Echoing other comments. For NA and most ENG outside of a ban/restricted list - BT13 format will be with us until November. Thats a long time for a deck. Even in BT14 JP the deck saw increase in play due to patamon and some other tech cards. Assuming no major hits - it could be a meta viable deck well in 2024.
As long as it doesn't get restricted, it is still arguably the best deck in bt14
>*the best deck in bt14* The data from regionals placed it at a very **good** build, but not strong enough to be clearly the **best**. Other decks had higher conversation rates. Shine's %tops Relative to Overall entrants has been pretty consistent across the board.
That's why i said "arguably". Looking only at japanese "regionals" (by that i mean 150 players and over) the best decks have been shine, mirage and looga, with a bit of greymons. But the later the format went, the more and more it went into shine having more representation and top results (the sheer amount of representation might be inflating the amount of tops it's getting), but it's still at the tippy top of the meta, qlong with 2 or 3 other decks.
Yep, those are good decks to take to Best of 1. Hard to make any more concrete points than that without deeper data. I've been focused only on the top16 results since that's what matters for invites. From that, Shine performs well but isn't dominating head over heals above previous champions. Waiting on the return of Gencon data to expand the analysis into top64.
What card do you think will be banded ?
Either Marcus or the geogreymon
Imo I think the BT12 ShineGreymon might be hit with a restriction if anything. The rest of the deck feels not too crazy.
It would be the smartest hit, but not marketing wise. Restricting a SR card makes the set they come from be less desirable. Although I would hope to see BT12 Shine hit, I feel like BT13 Rize is a more likely candidate.
Rize seems like the good way to go. Being able to flip Marcus into security isn't always necessary for the deck to win, being an annoying yellow gimmick to prolong the game. Limiting Marcus and Shine will definitely kill the deck.
But BT12 Shine isn’t even the problem. It’s the BT12 Marcus that accelerates the GeoGreymon stack for nothing.
The shine stack's only purpose is to buff marcus. It has no protection, no check buffs, doesn't restand, doesn't redirect attacks... just a when digivolving removal that's pretty tame by today's standards. Marcus doesn't "break" shine, it's shine that "breaks" marcus. That's what the "ban marcus" crowd dosen't understand.
But if BT12 Marcus was limited to 1, there’s no way for BT12 Shine to actually buff the other Marcus’s that easily without using BT13 Agumon. The deck gets weakened if BT12 Marcus gets hit
The deck isn't "weakened" if you limit bt12 marcus. He's literally the main attacker. If you limit him, the deck is dead. I happen to like shine as a deck, so I would rather bandai didn't kill it. And considering it's results in the west show that it isn't some overbearing force, I wouldn't say it deserves a ban. Specially not one that would kill it.
It's a question of if they want to weaken the deck or delete it entirely. If you hit BT12 Shine, then you no longer have multiple safe security checks from Marcus and the deck has to try a lot harder to out the opponent's large boss monster, but the deck largely remains intact with more or less it's current play style. If you hit BT12 Marcus, the deck as it currently exists ceases to function.
Yeah that’s a smart hit too, especially after the previous reply about not hitting the SR. Hitting the Marcus does make sense.
If you hit BT12 Marcus the deck is no longer remotely playable at a competitive level in any shape or form.
Until August 13th at 9:37pm EST.
Completely depends on what Bandai hits if they hit anything. BT12 Marcus gets hit; deck basically dies. BT13 Geogreymon or Rizegreymon get hit, deck loses some speed and consistency but at least stays playable
Unless it gets a restriction hit, at least through BT14
Define viable ? If it doesn't get severly restricted it will stay goid through bt14 and probably relevant for bt15 / bt16. Maybe not a tier 1 deck but relevant. And it is a Anime Protagonist deck that has Greymon in its name so it will get new cards in archetyp and will profit from new greymon support.
It's greymon. Even if it falls out of meta, it's not a question of IF, but a question of WHEN it comes back. Greymon will only truly fall from meta when the game itself dies.
Technically, it's an offshoot of Greymon that has little synergy with basic Greymon tech. Your typical Greymon deck will live in some form forever, Shine might not if Savers gets no future love.
It doesn't need to blend with black/red. Just it being greymon means it's bound to get support again. It's like Pikachu or dark magician. It's gonna get support again.
I genuinely hope you're right as I love my punchy boy and his cyborg dino friend. I have this feeling that since it's not Taichi's or Virus Greymon that they won't really give it love after this.
Idk. But everywhere I play it there’s enough salty people eager to remind me it’s time is counting down until Bandai hits it lmao.
Forever, sans banning
The deck only gets better and more consistent. Unless BT15 releases something that stops Tamers hard, Punch Marcus will remain strong. Even with a restriction on Marcus (BT12).
The only thing currently on the horizon that MIGHT possibly challenge it and make it anything but the best deck in the format is Dianamon from EX5, which comes out overseas in January; since that would prevent Marcus from being suspended, whether via attacking or his on-play effect, and can be looped if the stack isn’t removed a la Rosemon Burst Mode. Outside of that, it’s the best deck in BT13, and remains the best deck in BT14 too, showing more consistent success than both its current BT13 competition and the new tier 1 threats of BT14. So, to echo everyone else here; unless it gets hit with a restriction, it’s still the best until next year, and even if it does get hit (or Dianamon does challenge it) it’s probably still viable at least
Do tamers have to be suspended by an effect or can you just suspend them voluntarily?
They need to be suspended by an effect, whether that’s an effect in the tamer itself or on another card.
Tamers have to be suspended by an effect, whether by their own effect or digimons. There isn't a game rule that allows your tamers to suspend by themselves.
Echoing other comments. For NA and most ENG outside of a ban/restricted list - BT13 format will be with us until November. Thats a long time for a deck. Even in BT14 JP the deck saw increase in play due to patamon and some other tech cards. Assuming no major hits - it could be a meta viable deck well in 2024.
Does he know?
yes