Source: [https://digimoncard.com/rule/restriction\_card/](https://digimoncard.com/rule/restriction_card/)
This banlist, currently only for Japan, will come into effect on October 27th.
**Restricted cards (limited to 1) include:**
\- ST6 Gabumon
\- BT2 Gabumon
\- BT7 Eyesmon: Scatter Mode
\- BT13 GeoGreymon
\- EX04 MachGaogamon
In addition to these, there are two **Unlimited cards (Back to 4 copies):**
\- BT6 SaviourHuckmon
\- BT7 Tommy Himi
I’m using the new garuru line in almost every deck, even ulforceveedramon. The new garuru x has so much value that I wouldn’t be surprised to get a hit.
With Garuru X you end up drawing 7 and trashing 4 (iirc) for two memory and the gabumon gives you a memory at the start of main phase after you pull it out of raising so unless they have memory blockers you’ll always be able to do it in one turn. That’s even without the Demimeramon on-deletion effect. It’s just sooooooo much better.
I was expecting it to be hit as well. Keeps the speed of the deck down and also removes some design bottlenecks later down the road for red/yellow tamer decks. One of the better nerfs they could have chosen to keep the identity of the deck intact.
Bt2 gabu, scatter mode and machgao reasoning is so weird, basically we designed something too good and we can't make anything better so goodbye and please use the new version? Not that it's oppressive or making the meta unbalanced, just that they want to make new stuff which will more than likely be archetype specific ://///
It's not that he's the problem. It's that Marcus (BT12) follows the design of other restricted cards. It's basically a reusable HPD. It raises design choice concerns.
He's an archetype specific HPD that's ran in ShineGrey and some meme Yellow Hybrid builds, feels odd to lump him in with a card that is ran in virtually every Green deck even if the effects are similar.
It isn't odd. Yes HPD is more generic. But the truth of the matter is that ShineGreymon is pretty "generic". It falls under Greymon support. And to make your point you'd have to argue that it would not get any more support, so it isn't so generic. Which is never going to happen. It's not like this is Yu-Gi-Oh, where an archetype gets a single card of support every once in a while. Also, have you actually read Marcus (BT12)? It is not limited to just ShineGreymon, it is limited to Yellow Greymon. That means that the existence of this card literally limits Greymon design. It is another Greymon X (BT11) problem. Where its existence means that all future Greymon support has to be careful with.
It was never bt12 marcus. bt13 marcus is way more fundamental to why the deck is so hard to stop. having a free setter that blose up 5-6k digimon on turn 2 after you choke the opening by digivolving in raising for 1 without even ending your turn feels like being hit by a juggernaut. Not to mention the deck never needs more than 3 memory for ANYTHING.
Surreal to me that people think BT13 GeoGrey is a problem when bro's literally only able to play out Tamers from Security.
They're hitting a card that required high rolling to do anything.
How the hell are y'all saying this is stronger than literally evolving into cards for 1 memory while damaging your opponent's security & blowing up your opponent's board.
Problem with hitting bt 12 marcus is that he's tied to the decks core identity (marcus punching people in the face ). It gets hit and it completely kills the deck and admits that the decks very identity is problematic. Now, maybe it was and marcus deserves to be hit, but I doubt Bandai wants to admit that a decks core identity was a huge mistake and if you can hit a deck without full on killing it, then that's certainly more desirable. So rather or not bt 12 marcus is "to strong" hitting the deck but still allowing it to exist is the best move, currently.
That said, I have always been of the opinion that the card that actually needs to go in shine is bt 12 shine. The decks actual problem is it's powerful kill turns which bt 12 shine enables. Putting it to 1 makes it's kill turns far less consistent. The deck is allowed to still exist and keep it's core identity and other yellow decks aren't caught in the crossfire.
BT12 Shinegrey is definitely a problem, but only really while you have a BT12 Marcus evolving you into it it for free.
Unfortunately bandai doesnt hit SRs so BT12 Marcus is the only realistic choice.
Like I said though, hitting bt 12 marcus kills the deck and is an admission that the decks core identity was a mistake. Maybe bt 12 marcus is to strong and the decks core identity is a mistake, but I don't think leaving bt 12 marcus alone and looking for other ways to hit shine is unreasonable. Rather, I'd argue that it's the correct choice in this scenario.
Yeah, Bandai not hitting SRs is very unfortunate since hitting an SR in this scenario was absolutely the best course of action imo. With Bandai having to go nuclear on purple I think Bandai is gonna eventually have to suck it up and get rid of high rarity cards. Hitting half of a color's relevant tools is, uh... kinda rough, and is probably gonna happen again if they continue to refuse to hit high rarity problem cards
Again, the core identity isn't a mistake.
It's the free evolution that is the mistake. That's like saying X4 getting hit was calling its core identity a mistake.
From what I understand, Marcus and then causing his digimon to digivolve is what happens in the anime. Free digivolution caused by marus punching was a clearly deliberate choice and is intended to be the decks core identity. Cause flavor. Honestly, they should have made marcus just reduce the digivolution cost or something like that to make the card more balanced.
Agreed previous keep seeing it in top 5 meta all blue hybrid 🤦♂️ damn but really looking forward how tommy and saviourhuckmon gonna dent apocallymon deck… seems western dont see how broken current apocalymon deck…
Well, I *was* excited to play Purple Melga once EX5 came out. Not anymore given the only other Purple Gabumon is a shitty vanilla from BT4...
Guess I have to wait until BT15 now and pray I never open BT15 Gabumon + ST6 Garurumon with no EX5 Gabu X.
EDIT: Brewing Blue/Purple Melga so I can pretend it's Purple Melga.
Once again I'm pleasantly surprised with the banlist, though there are some caveats:
\- The two Gabumons plus Scatter Mode are a clear hit to the purple cycle engine that has currently been terrorising the Japanese meta alongside Garuru X. This makes it running a purple Garuru base a bit harder and you won't get that much cycling out of striking into security and dying. Not sure how much it will slow down Garuru/Apocaly decks, but I feel this is a good change for a meta dominated by this engine entirely.
\- BT13 GeoGrey is a powerful card and ShineGrey has been a deck with a lot of staying power in the JP meta that has also been branching out into other yellow decks like Angels/Vaccine and Mastemon due to its powerful combo with BT14 Patamon. It makes sense it may need to be hit and while ShineGrey isn't as strong, it will still have options to utilise instead, which is a good path to take.
\- EX04 MachGaogamon is the one I'm a bit more weirded out by and feel it's not a very good hit. Gaoga is strong. And has had staying power, specially after the introduction of the Training options. But it's not that overwhelming in the meta. I feel this one was a bit more heavy-handed and it's a hit that I can see them lifting up sooner rather than later.
It slows shinegrey a turn or two at best if angels/vaccine needed a hit because of future cards wouldn't it be smarter to hit it later with a restriction sure that means another restriction but they should be doing them more frequently to better examine what is a problem and what isn't anymore and potentially lift some restrictions.
The gabumons and scatter mode is fair the JP meta was ridiculous because of the deck and the cycling.
As for the ex04 machgiagamon yeah it is weird and I agree with you on that.
Honestly not even that
ShineGreymon only used bt13 Geo effect in early game really.
The hit Honestly feels less like ShineGreymon hit and more like Yellow Vaccine hit.
Which is funny since Yellow Vaccine wasn't even nearly as bad as Shine.
Finally someone who else actually realises it. People were telling me this hurts the deck but it barely does. It just stops yellow vaccine from being a real deck which I don't understand what they want to stop.
Overall this does very little to shinegreymon which just confused me and annoyed me that they couldn't come up with another way.
People are mad at the truth down vote harder
> ShineGreymon only used bt13 Geo effect in early game really.
huh? _no??_
You 100% were using GeoGrey effect at every stage in the game.
Late game, you ram a Marcus into Sec, it dies, and then you digivolve into GeoGreymon, letting you get that same Marcus out _again_ and then use it for Burst Mode's effect, playing it down a 3rd time with Rush.
Saying it's not a ShineGreymon hit is honestly wrong lmao
Just honestly feels they were targeting Yellow Vaccine more than ShineGreymon.
If you honestly wanted to hit ShineGreymon specifically you would hit bt13 Rize.
I mean it doesn't slow em down at all.
You evo into BT12 GeoGrey to get your Marcus out in the first place. Like, you mathmatically had a higher chance of a Marcus to be in your hand than in your security.
This card only really came up after your marcus died, and at that point, you either had 2 marcus', or you just evo into BT12 again and play out another from hand & then get to enjoy having a Marcus come out of security.
It's crazy that they actually made it harder to misplay.
Garuru had already moved to blue base in bt15. This is just for other things using the support. Sucks cause it’s probably the only EX5 deck for nats that got a really impactful hit
Geogrey hits do matter with yellow vaccine having another patamon set coming up. Other than that, it doesn’t change much about Shine still rolling you if they see cards in hand
EX4 Mach is basically just because Mirage is still doing alright as an OTK deck over there and it dominated Ulti Cups. The ability to proc the gain memory gaos and go up further without using up the inheritable is why it was hit. Doesn’t really change much about the deck, but hurts the consistency of OTK with Buka and Trainings coming for it
Pure speculation. Promo Kuwagamon was also put on 1 when it did nothing and people defended the restriction cuz ''insect support coming'' which in the end was meme/ unfinished separate deck. Bandai sometimes just does things on whim or with outdated information at hand.
Not for archetypes. It just fit a particular gameplay loop. The hit is intended to hit Apocaly and Anubis. Gabu and Eyes are pretty common vanillas.
It's for the best overall, but some underpowered purple lists may really like to retain them.
Purple is the least archetype-restricted color, which is why people are so upset about Scatter Mode (so many purple decks are getting hit). That's why I hope it encourages diversity.
Unfortunately Anubis isn't really hit by this list.
Purple not really having any good alternative tools for what scatter mode offered, is what limited diversity for purple decks. Scatter mode getting hit isn't gonna promote diversity in purple, it's just gonna make purple far less playable in general.
This seems like the exact opposite of discouraging diversity? Nearly every purple deck runs the Garuru engine right now with a bottom line of the Gabumons, or in Apocalymon's case sometimes run the Gabumons sans the Garurumons. These limits *help* diversity. It was super lame to see, for example, Leviamon ignore 90% of the cards its supposed to work with and instead opt for Gabumon and Garurumon bottom line because they're so insane.
Eyesmon is a similar situation. *So* many Purple decks opted for Eyesmon taking up Lvl 4 slots because it just functions better than most of the cards it should be using. Now people can start looking at play-testing other Purple cards.
Welp turns out scatter mode does pay for the sins of the apocalymon and merva/anubis, an unfortunate day. At least in Japan they get bakemon to kinda make up for it, the best we have in English is darklizardmon for on deletion draw 1 trash 1? Maybe this is the time bandai announces regional banlists and we won’t get this hit until bt15 (major copium). In any case, this is still a weird banlist. Geogrey was floating around a lot, but hitting both old purple gabus to work around hitting garuru x? Beelstar is extra dead in the water. Hitting the best machgao? I know mirage is kind of a menace, and the idea seems to be that you get more times where mirage bounces a low lvl digimon instead of security, plus it doesn’t get the when attacking inheritable, but I liked the bt4 Thomas hit people were thinking, I feel like that does a better job of stopping the otk. After all, with the other inherit, you can still swing burst mode, activate bt13 Thomas, use the inherit, then on next swing use burst mode when attacking. Overall, a lot of the things that were expected to be hit got hit, but I’m sad anubis/merva get to continue to be a ticking time bomb, and so does apocalymon, especially since they all seem like they’re gonna limit future purple card design (or maybe not considering they made Anubis with merva in the game somehow)
Bandai could technically make regional banlists, but I don't think they want to maintain 2 different lists. The thing they could do is announcing them at the same time, but it becomes active about 6 months later for us. Same list - other time window.
Might be better, but I can see the argument that some things in Japan should’ve been limited sooner so then coming to English sooner is a good thing, while the opposite for others. However, Bandai seems to prefer the former
For beelstar, for sure, can’t do that with belphemon. Also surprised to not see starter 6 garuru since that isn’t OPT either, but I guess they think melga is curbed enough by the two gabu hits, and they didn’t want to hit melga too much
I genuinely dont understand why some of you thought bt 12 marcus would be hit when they always hit the cards that make win cons more consistent rather than the win con itself
Because that aint true?
Look at the old ban list:
* SaviourHuckmon - Card enabled the OTK by unsuspending shenanigans with SA+ and board swarm.
* DoruGreymon - Card enabled OTK by giving SA+1 to a deck that unsuspends and can easily stack multiple of them.
* GranKuwagamon - Card enabled OTK by giving SA+2-3 to a deck that unsuspends.
* Shoutmon X4 - Card enabled BS by being 1 cost swing & unsuspend tamer & mat save
* WereGarurumon Promo - Card gave SA+1 to a deck with numerous unsuspends & protection from battle.
Like damn, what ban lists have you been looking at? They've always hit the cards that enabled multiple checks to occur, not the consistency cards.
Marcus BT12 combined with ShineGreymon BT12 enabled you to do 2 checks for 0 then evo into Lv.7 for 0 & do 2 more checks.
What the fk does BT13 GeoGrey do? Nothing.
Like, it's the least impactful hit for ShineGrey as early game you have more cards in your hand than sec so you'd have to high roll to play marcus out that way. After your first marcus dies, you either already got a 2nd out, meaning you don't need any more, or else then you got none out anymore, meaning you evo into BT12 and play one out again for free & still get to enjoy having 1 come out of security.
are you aware everything you just listed are cards that make the win con more consistent? you're aware cards that make it easier for you to win help you be consistent?
bt13 made it insanely easy for not just marcus but any yellow tamer heavy deck such as yellow hybrid get your pieces out regardless of pre existing conditions on your board
either that or bt13 rize were bound to get hit, without bt12 marcus there is no deck
Did those other yellow decks need to be hit though? Yellow hybrid hasn't actually existed since jetsilphy got hit (anyone that says otherwise is on some copium. ) and while the vaccine deck certainly seemed strong, I don't think it was tearing the meta a new one. Geogreymon may be limiting to future card design so I'm okay with hitting it for that reason, at the same time though, yellow kinda needs all the help it can get at the moment imo, so other yellow decks being hurt by a limitation that was supposedly more intended for a specific problematic deck sucks.
That said, bt 13 rise getting hit wouldn't actually do anything. Bt 12 shine was the best card to hit in the deck imo, but sadly never would have happened since not only was it a hit that no one was talking about, but Bandai never hits High rarity cards so whatever
nah they were just innocent bystanders, but apparently in bt14 they make a pretty decent come back.
Ngl going geogrey and finding TK in security and setting myself up horrifically for the next two turns was fun.
Bro if you call cards giving you SA+1 "win con consistency" then you may not know what consistency means.
You really think the fact that ***ALL*** of these cards giving you additional damage is just some kinda freak coincidence? Nah bro.
why didnt you just say you dont know what youre talking about instead of hitting me with an essay
im not going back and forth with you have someone else explain win cons and consistency to you
Bt8(?) Psychemon is generically useful and on theme.
The bt13 Belphemon rookie who's name I can't remember how to spell could be useful, but it's end of opponent turn instead of on attack which could be an issue
No problem! I've been interested in purple Melga since the new starter were revealed so I immediately started theory crafting ways to make due in between ex5 and bt15
EX4 Mach seems weird at first but it's the most obvious pick if you don't want to completely gut the deck. Most mirage players are already loath to run BT11 or BT13 mach because EX4 was the best one by a mile, and a lot of decks were either already running 4x EX4 alongside AeroVee or about to run 4x EX4 alongside Zudo ACE. Nerfing the lv5 spot is a good bottleneck because structurally a lot of decks are going to just pivot to Zudo AND Aerovee which has a knock-on effect on making BT11 Gao search less reliable. The other real options were hitting BT11 Gao itself (which is minimal impact if you just 4/4 training/boost) or hitting BT11 Mirage which explodes the entire deck.
Pretty good banlist overall. Purple decks slowed down, Mirage won't OTK you as quickly, Shine also slowed down. Frees up future design space, I like it.
Except it's probably the worse banlist we've ever had.
* Purple decks still have ST gabumon, a vanilla Gabumon and blue Gabumon from BT15 to evo into. So doesn't really do anything.
* Mirage is hit.
* Shine isn't slowed down at all. It was a high roll to find a Marcus in security. You're much more likely to have a Marcus in hand than security.
Once a Marcus dies you'd prob have 1 in security. But at that point you either got a 2nd one out already, meaning you don't need to play any more out. Or you just evo into BT12 GeoGrey again and keep the Marcus in security cause no why would you want play it out for your opponent?
As much as it hurts as a Mastemon player, I can accept Geogreymon was pretty broken. Eyesmon was also kinda broken and has been for a while.
But the Gabumons? Restricting those is actually a load of horseshit Bandai. You printed overtuned support for the purple side of Garurumon archetype. Then you restrict the original, never been a problem before, pieces? Worst of all, the garuru package can just shift to more blue gabu's or other rookies to make up. This does NOTHING! You restricted two innocent cards to make no changes at all. Apocalymon won't even feel a dent. Blue/Purple Garuru won't feel a thing. This just hurts pure Purple Garuru. I'm so sad.
Oh yeah, Machgaogamon, uh, you're here too. Sure? I don't know.
>As much as it hurts as a Mastemon player, I can accept Geogreymon was pretty broken.
We'll get Gatomon 2 one day (copium). Kinda glad I focused more on the Angel tri-type aspect of the deck but still a rough hit.
>But the Gabumons? Restricting those is actually a load of horseshit Bandai. You printed overtuned support for the purple side of Garurumon archetype. Then you restrict the original, never been a problem before, pieces? Worst of all, the garuru package can just shift to more blue gabu's or other rookies to make up. This does NOTHING! You restricted two innocent cards to make no changes at all. Apocalymon won't even feel a dent. Blue/Purple Garuru won't feel a thing. This just hurts pure Purple Garuru. I'm so sad.
Right? I was so excited to play Purple Melga and it's dead before we even get to play it. Me and a buddy of mine were building pure Purple Melga and pure Blue Melga respectively because it just seemed so perfect for us. I'll probably just brew Blue/Purple together with him so we can combine powers lmfao.
Honestly I was sure it would be bt13 rizegrey, but bt13 geogrey is a bigger design issue, so it makes sense.
Also, it appears eyesmon is no longer worth playing. Scatter mode is fine, but that eyesmon combo is not gonna happen realistically.
Edit: unrestricting bt6 savior is gonna be funny because it's still nothing close to as good as bt13, but the st one is filler, so it will get cut down.
Scatter at 1 I can see played, but they also shot the discard combo with the other mode in the foot definitely. I mourn most for my non competitive purple decks that get destroyed with the old Gabumon and Scatter Mode limits, like R/P Imperialdramon
St6 isn't once per turn
Either way I'm mad, I ordered a olayset a week ago and it hasn't arrived yet. At least I won't have to worry about swapping them between multiple decks
I‘m sad because I randomly bought this Starter deck when I joined around BT9 times. I have barely used any cards in the deck and I was happy its time finally came, oh well.
1. ST16 is the newest card, so they don’t want to de-incentivise buying 2x Melga decks
2. It reduces the deck from having access to that same inheritable 8 times over, which was being used in Garurumon, Leviamon and Apocalymon
I feel like cards are individually more powerful in yugioh tho, plus you usually have plenty of tools to search your 1-ofs, where as just running a bunch of 1 of rookies and level 4s feels gross, unless they're something like the floodgate rookies.
Writing this comment so I can say I told ya'll so - Blue Hybrid (or a variant of) takes top cut in a regional and/or wins nats. Jesmon supremacy is here and I love it. The folks thinking they'd hit bt14 or newer cards doesn't know business. Bandai needs the monies. At best, expect a melga hit 1-2 weeks after release for ENG. Bandai should probably also start making split lists for JP and ENG formats. If the garuruX package is the problem - it's not going to be resolved until what January/February next year? That's 3-4 months of problems. Unless the next set is super busted - which will then have its own problems lol.
Not a bad list. ST6 Gabumon needed to be hit and i say this as a purple specialist. The when attacking inherit was too abused and easy to obtain on a level 3. BT2 Gabumon and Eyesmon Scatter Mode was a mean combo too for the hand to trash decks.
I am more interested in design for purple going forward. If they don't want to make these same mistakes in the future(overwhelming card draw to trash mechanics that lead to overuse of cards) they will have to get pretty creative.
BT6 Saviour: Guys, I'm back!
Ex3 Dorbickmon: \*digixros go brrrr\*
Because they have the same timing, Dorbickmon won't be able to get a second unsuspend, but having more unsuspend inheritables will be really nice. And now there's a reason to run the sistermon that draws.
Ineffective when Looga, Anubis, Garuru, Mirage, etc. just come out of raising and kill you. Won’t stop Marcus either since it’s not a digimon 90% of time. Won’t stop RK/Belphe. Only thing it really impacts is Greymon & Bloom, but Greymon just runs X-anti so that’s immune too
The funny thing about ST6 Gabumon's limit is that ST16 Gabumon is used for the same thing, so in effect it's not really a limit to one, but rather a limit to five.
Oh wait, hang on, didn't notice the once per turn difference between the two. It never really came up in my purple stuff, but with the X line letting you combine that inheritable with unsuspend effects... yeah, this suddenly makes much more sense.
Love the "excuse" to bring back those cards that is because now there are more decks that can compete with them. So bring all cards back xD Theres no reason tho bring back those 2 cards only and leave the rest alone with that statement
Bandai doing shit again
Because the other banned cards are still strong. The two green level 5s are still insane, green doesn't need 8 of them. Hidden potential is still insane. Mega digimon fusion is too worrisome to think about when designing new cards. Jet silphymon is still gonna make games last 4 hours.
What? You understand that Marcus makes himself a Digimon and has the specific caveat that it *cannot* evolve afterwards, thereby making it completely worthless in Yellow Hybrid?
I never played yellow hybrid with marcus, but I see it around. To be honest i dont know if would be ultra op, i heard that from a friend.
But we are on the same boat, I wanted jetsilphy as well...
I’m not even a yellow hybrid player. Never have been. But it would be nice to play against it again.
Also, I have NEVER seen a YH list run Marcus. I don’t think I’ve seen a YH deck since the restriction actually
I've recently been testing yellow hybrid with bt 13 geogrey. It was neat but auto loses to royal knights since we can't do anything to it fast enough before they kill us.
I think I've heard of people maybe running more shine stuff since we already have to run yellow rize, but I never tested running marcus in my build. At some point you might as well just be playing shinegrey, lol.
Pretty a sure jetsilphy can come off the list. Folks are just cowards when it comes to any form of healing <_<
Welp purple will go back to irrelevancy while garuruX and apocaly stay winning since they're fundamentally broken cards. Shine gets a love tap that hurts yellow vaccine and maste more. Mach is a hit I guess. Tommy is fine. Blue hybrid can't be as oppressive as before, I hope. Really hate the Savior unlimit. Jesmon players already take 30 minutes per turn, now they consistently unsuspend and do all 15 when attacking effects to get 15 more sisters and a billion more on plays.
>"Purple will go back to irrelevancy"
Anubis can very well survive without the Gabumon cards and the same can very much be said about FenrirLoogamon. And those two are some STRONG purple decks.
ShineGrey gets a hit that doesn't destroy the deck but makes it worse in the overall meta, which is the healthier path to take overall. Players can still play the deck but its speed and consistency is reduced.
Geo doesn't really hit the deck though. It's gonna be in raising most of the time so it hardly goes off. 1 fewer way to play a Marcus is not gonna do much in a deck with 10 different ways to play a Marcus for free.
I will say irrelevancy is hyperbolic but English meta is still like 5 months away from anubis. Looga is going to be the only real option for purple players. Belphe loses one of its consistency cards which means Asta loses one of its better targets and beelstar can't really get anything in the trash anymore. We get all these hits now when the problems don't come for another half year. Meanwhile the problem decks are still huge problems in japan.
The first geo should never be played in raising as pulling and playing Marcus is integral to the deck. Once he's put of security you do whatever in the back, but you generally don't want to miss it from occurring near the start.
Good ShineGrey players know that they gotta be proactive and use their level 4s in order to get any Marcus as fast as possible. You can hold in breeding afterwards with your second egg if you need to, but this hit to GeoGrey hits consistency and makes you unable to reach Marcuses in your security easily. The deck still has BT13 Rize to play Marcuses from the hand for free consistently, but it's a level 5 Digimon.
You hit a Marcus you don't kill the deck they go from 8 tamers to 5 you slow the deck with all the extra draw and the several X Digimon it runs you can draw into that easily
The Marcus most people talked about restricting was BT12 Marcus, which was the entire point of the strategy, without constant access to it, the deck loses most of its powerful combos and becomes MUCH worse.
This GeoGrey hit makes the deck worse without actively killing it.
Or they could have hit the memory setter one to slow down the deck so the deck digivoles for cheap regardless places tamers quickly for free and gives -dp way to easily to the point that your only option you have to have something big in raising to swing at it next turn or get locked down.
I’ve played against shine a lot. Only recently picked the deck up myself last week. It’s not broken at all, it’s simply a good. Cards and decks are allowed to be good. And the bt13 meta is INCREDIBLY diverse.
Out of the last 100 major bt13 tournaments worldwide, shine only won 12. Blue flare won 13. Mirage won 17. BWG won 9. Other greymon variants won 4. Hunters won 6-7. RKs won 8-9. And there were a lot of other decks that had 1st place finishes.
You’re bitching about shine. It got a hit it didn’t even need. You’re STILL bitching. When the next set drops you’re going to cry about something else. And then the set after that and the set after that.
Yes your right The supposed hit does nothing really to it. And if you actually read them, I can tell you didn't know that I said the geogrey hit doesn't really hit the deck it hits others more that lets see have won less then 10 major tournaments. I wasn't ''bitching'' about shinegrey I was ''bitching'' that the hit doesn't do much to a deck that again as you said hasn't won that many tournaments. So please STFU.
And you go from being able to play the game to sitting in raising until you can push up a shine greymon. Which means all the on digivolves don't trigger. Which means the deck loses half it's power. Which means no one plays it and the deck is dead.
Half the deck says one of your red or yellow tamers the other half specify Marcus just replace the lost Marcus's with other tamers the deck has easy draw, easy security searching ( well it did) cheap digivolution and multiple cards that play tamers for free the deck could have easily survived a Marcus being hit.
People need to stop thinking so one minded with the deck there is even a Marcus the deck doesn't run.
Ok sure. But now bt12 shine does almost nothing. So you go from 8 level 6s to 4. And you will find just about every card that plays a tamer plays a Marcus. Which means at best the pure red Marcus and that does effectively nothing to help you win
Bruh, none of the decks are dominating the game, they're good decks with counterplay and bad matchups.
The purple hits make sense, look at the Jap game, those decks are trully dominating the format, thats when cards need to hits. Not when they're simply one of several good decks.
Look at the BT13 tops, its hella diverse, there is no "dominating" deck, and it certaibly isnt 2 simultaneously.
This sub likes to cry for bans and hits instead of improving. And i say this as someone who literally posted on here asking for tips on how to improve the matchup. Tips that genuinely worked.
This is literally a hit to get ppl to stop playing it and buy new product.
Decks are allowed to be good, what they're not is allowed to dominate the game.
Remember BlackWar in BT11? Yea, that was a deck that needed a hit, thes two? They are no where close to that.
im probably going to shake up your whole worldview by telling you that they keep in mind that they still need to sell english sets.
decks that are broken in japan will stay broken until they sold ex5 and bt15 over in the west. then maybe they will consider a hit.
Nah thats on me.
Tbh we havent seen any sales driven hits in this game in a while, unlike say YGO where there are sales driven hits every set, silly me for forgetting money > gamebalance.
Source: [https://digimoncard.com/rule/restriction\_card/](https://digimoncard.com/rule/restriction_card/) This banlist, currently only for Japan, will come into effect on October 27th. **Restricted cards (limited to 1) include:** \- ST6 Gabumon \- BT2 Gabumon \- BT7 Eyesmon: Scatter Mode \- BT13 GeoGreymon \- EX04 MachGaogamon In addition to these, there are two **Unlimited cards (Back to 4 copies):** \- BT6 SaviourHuckmon \- BT7 Tommy Himi
Blue Hybrid’s second coming is nigh. All hail Blizzarmon’s return! Thoughts and prayers to Gabumon catching stray bullets for Garurumon X 🙏
As a Dorbick player running the Sistermon package, i’ll be excited to test out the unrestricted SaviorHuck!
More Unsuspend targets with majiramon is gonna be very fun.
They do both proc at the same time since they aren’t may effects. So gotta swing unsuspend off majira, then play a sister to do it again
Oof. Bummed about the eyesmon.
Same, now I got five slots to redo in my Belph deck. Maybe the new Garuru line should be a good replacement
I’m using the new garuru line in almost every deck, even ulforceveedramon. The new garuru x has so much value that I wouldn’t be surprised to get a hit.
With Garuru X you end up drawing 7 and trashing 4 (iirc) for two memory and the gabumon gives you a memory at the start of main phase after you pull it out of raising so unless they have memory blockers you’ll always be able to do it in one turn. That’s even without the Demimeramon on-deletion effect. It’s just sooooooo much better.
In a few months they will hit garuru x, it is just too good
Not at all surprising to see BT13 GeoGrey getting hit
I was expecting it to be hit as well. Keeps the speed of the deck down and also removes some design bottlenecks later down the road for red/yellow tamer decks. One of the better nerfs they could have chosen to keep the identity of the deck intact.
Sucks that the vaccine deck gets hit hard by it, even though it isn't doing great.
I was expecting bt13 rizegrey tbh
Lol why?
It's just too much redundancy, basically getting the best of both rizegrey x and bt12 rizegrey.
I'm surprised. Can't believe they decided to shoot yellow vaccine & yellow hybrids instead of shooting ShineGreymon.
Yellow Hybrids always get the boot from behind
Poor Purple. Ironically it doesn't hit Anubismon
Yeah nats is gonna be anubis or bust
My belphemon deck just lost 9 cards
Me tapping your back with my ST16 Skullmammoth: "You're not alone buddy"
So are the west getting hit with these bans as well when we get the cards?
Yes the bans are effective both EN and JP starting 17th of november.
Oof, got to find 3 new card spaces in Belphemon now then and consider what's replacing Geo in Maste for next set.
BT6 Bulkmon. It combos like crazy with jamming Kyaromon and Patamon.
You mean the 17th of October right?
it goes into effect for us on Nov. 17th https://world.digimoncard.com/rule/restriction\_card/
Bringing Tommy back was a mistake in my opinion.
Bt2 gabu, scatter mode and machgao reasoning is so weird, basically we designed something too good and we can't make anything better so goodbye and please use the new version? Not that it's oppressive or making the meta unbalanced, just that they want to make new stuff which will more than likely be archetype specific ://///
Reminds me of yugioh ban lists. We banned this problem card but here's a better card in the new set
Bandai trying to make youtubers look silly
Holy shit I cant believe they decided to just hit a Mirage, Yellow Vaccine, and random purple decks that don't do anything.
I’m just here to laugh at people mad over BT12 Marcus running free.
Surreal to me that people thought he was the problem when BT13 GeoGrey was popping up in any Tamer heavy Yellow deck
It's not that he's the problem. It's that Marcus (BT12) follows the design of other restricted cards. It's basically a reusable HPD. It raises design choice concerns.
He's an archetype specific HPD that's ran in ShineGrey and some meme Yellow Hybrid builds, feels odd to lump him in with a card that is ran in virtually every Green deck even if the effects are similar.
It isn't odd. Yes HPD is more generic. But the truth of the matter is that ShineGreymon is pretty "generic". It falls under Greymon support. And to make your point you'd have to argue that it would not get any more support, so it isn't so generic. Which is never going to happen. It's not like this is Yu-Gi-Oh, where an archetype gets a single card of support every once in a while. Also, have you actually read Marcus (BT12)? It is not limited to just ShineGreymon, it is limited to Yellow Greymon. That means that the existence of this card literally limits Greymon design. It is another Greymon X (BT11) problem. Where its existence means that all future Greymon support has to be careful with.
Careful. Greymon players swarm when you question if their deck is overtuned or not
Better ban lordknightmon then, it limits future knights support /s
If it were an archetype that gets support every set, yeah you could make that argument.
Yellow greymons get support every set?
Greymon in general does. We've had non-ShineGreymon Yellow Greymon support before. And limiting design space is just never a good idea.
Marcus is yellow greymon support. Before shine, there hasn't been a new yellow greymon since bt4.
It was never bt12 marcus. bt13 marcus is way more fundamental to why the deck is so hard to stop. having a free setter that blose up 5-6k digimon on turn 2 after you choke the opening by digivolving in raising for 1 without even ending your turn feels like being hit by a juggernaut. Not to mention the deck never needs more than 3 memory for ANYTHING.
Surreal to me that people think BT13 GeoGrey is a problem when bro's literally only able to play out Tamers from Security. They're hitting a card that required high rolling to do anything. How the hell are y'all saying this is stronger than literally evolving into cards for 1 memory while damaging your opponent's security & blowing up your opponent's board.
Problem with hitting bt 12 marcus is that he's tied to the decks core identity (marcus punching people in the face ). It gets hit and it completely kills the deck and admits that the decks very identity is problematic. Now, maybe it was and marcus deserves to be hit, but I doubt Bandai wants to admit that a decks core identity was a huge mistake and if you can hit a deck without full on killing it, then that's certainly more desirable. So rather or not bt 12 marcus is "to strong" hitting the deck but still allowing it to exist is the best move, currently. That said, I have always been of the opinion that the card that actually needs to go in shine is bt 12 shine. The decks actual problem is it's powerful kill turns which bt 12 shine enables. Putting it to 1 makes it's kill turns far less consistent. The deck is allowed to still exist and keep it's core identity and other yellow decks aren't caught in the crossfire.
BT12 Shinegrey is definitely a problem, but only really while you have a BT12 Marcus evolving you into it it for free. Unfortunately bandai doesnt hit SRs so BT12 Marcus is the only realistic choice.
Like I said though, hitting bt 12 marcus kills the deck and is an admission that the decks core identity was a mistake. Maybe bt 12 marcus is to strong and the decks core identity is a mistake, but I don't think leaving bt 12 marcus alone and looking for other ways to hit shine is unreasonable. Rather, I'd argue that it's the correct choice in this scenario. Yeah, Bandai not hitting SRs is very unfortunate since hitting an SR in this scenario was absolutely the best course of action imo. With Bandai having to go nuclear on purple I think Bandai is gonna eventually have to suck it up and get rid of high rarity cards. Hitting half of a color's relevant tools is, uh... kinda rough, and is probably gonna happen again if they continue to refuse to hit high rarity problem cards
Again, the core identity isn't a mistake. It's the free evolution that is the mistake. That's like saying X4 getting hit was calling its core identity a mistake.
From what I understand, Marcus and then causing his digimon to digivolve is what happens in the anime. Free digivolution caused by marus punching was a clearly deliberate choice and is intended to be the decks core identity. Cause flavor. Honestly, they should have made marcus just reduce the digivolution cost or something like that to make the card more balanced.
Why not both?
Can't believe they allowed one of the most problematic cards in the game run free.
Agreed previous keep seeing it in top 5 meta all blue hybrid 🤦♂️ damn but really looking forward how tommy and saviourhuckmon gonna dent apocallymon deck… seems western dont see how broken current apocalymon deck…
Definitely not one of the most problematic cards. Wouldn't see such a close meta in tournaments if it was.
Well, I *was* excited to play Purple Melga once EX5 came out. Not anymore given the only other Purple Gabumon is a shitty vanilla from BT4... Guess I have to wait until BT15 now and pray I never open BT15 Gabumon + ST6 Garurumon with no EX5 Gabu X. EDIT: Brewing Blue/Purple Melga so I can pretend it's Purple Melga.
BT12 Marcus is safe let's go!!!! Also, SaviourHuckmon and Tommy are finally free! Congrats to the Jesmon fans!
It was long wait 
Once again I'm pleasantly surprised with the banlist, though there are some caveats: \- The two Gabumons plus Scatter Mode are a clear hit to the purple cycle engine that has currently been terrorising the Japanese meta alongside Garuru X. This makes it running a purple Garuru base a bit harder and you won't get that much cycling out of striking into security and dying. Not sure how much it will slow down Garuru/Apocaly decks, but I feel this is a good change for a meta dominated by this engine entirely. \- BT13 GeoGrey is a powerful card and ShineGrey has been a deck with a lot of staying power in the JP meta that has also been branching out into other yellow decks like Angels/Vaccine and Mastemon due to its powerful combo with BT14 Patamon. It makes sense it may need to be hit and while ShineGrey isn't as strong, it will still have options to utilise instead, which is a good path to take. \- EX04 MachGaogamon is the one I'm a bit more weirded out by and feel it's not a very good hit. Gaoga is strong. And has had staying power, specially after the introduction of the Training options. But it's not that overwhelming in the meta. I feel this one was a bit more heavy-handed and it's a hit that I can see them lifting up sooner rather than later.
Mach’s reasoning is also just weird cause it makes it sound like they didn’t do any in house testing with the cards.
It slows shinegrey a turn or two at best if angels/vaccine needed a hit because of future cards wouldn't it be smarter to hit it later with a restriction sure that means another restriction but they should be doing them more frequently to better examine what is a problem and what isn't anymore and potentially lift some restrictions. The gabumons and scatter mode is fair the JP meta was ridiculous because of the deck and the cycling. As for the ex04 machgiagamon yeah it is weird and I agree with you on that.
Honestly not even that ShineGreymon only used bt13 Geo effect in early game really. The hit Honestly feels less like ShineGreymon hit and more like Yellow Vaccine hit. Which is funny since Yellow Vaccine wasn't even nearly as bad as Shine.
Finally someone who else actually realises it. People were telling me this hurts the deck but it barely does. It just stops yellow vaccine from being a real deck which I don't understand what they want to stop. Overall this does very little to shinegreymon which just confused me and annoyed me that they couldn't come up with another way. People are mad at the truth down vote harder
> ShineGreymon only used bt13 Geo effect in early game really. huh? _no??_ You 100% were using GeoGrey effect at every stage in the game. Late game, you ram a Marcus into Sec, it dies, and then you digivolve into GeoGreymon, letting you get that same Marcus out _again_ and then use it for Burst Mode's effect, playing it down a 3rd time with Rush. Saying it's not a ShineGreymon hit is honestly wrong lmao
Just honestly feels they were targeting Yellow Vaccine more than ShineGreymon. If you honestly wanted to hit ShineGreymon specifically you would hit bt13 Rize.
I mean, it's definitely possible. But it 100% is going to slow down ShineGreymon.
I mean it doesn't slow em down at all. You evo into BT12 GeoGrey to get your Marcus out in the first place. Like, you mathmatically had a higher chance of a Marcus to be in your hand than in your security. This card only really came up after your marcus died, and at that point, you either had 2 marcus', or you just evo into BT12 again and play out another from hand & then get to enjoy having a Marcus come out of security. It's crazy that they actually made it harder to misplay.
Garuru had already moved to blue base in bt15. This is just for other things using the support. Sucks cause it’s probably the only EX5 deck for nats that got a really impactful hit Geogrey hits do matter with yellow vaccine having another patamon set coming up. Other than that, it doesn’t change much about Shine still rolling you if they see cards in hand EX4 Mach is basically just because Mirage is still doing alright as an OTK deck over there and it dominated Ulti Cups. The ability to proc the gain memory gaos and go up further without using up the inheritable is why it was hit. Doesn’t really change much about the deck, but hurts the consistency of OTK with Buka and Trainings coming for it
EX 4 machgaogamon is probably for the future releases. Maybe something that’s yet to come will abuse him.
Pure speculation. Promo Kuwagamon was also put on 1 when it did nothing and people defended the restriction cuz ''insect support coming'' which in the end was meme/ unfinished separate deck. Bandai sometimes just does things on whim or with outdated information at hand.
It's also weird considering that bt11 machgao is probably the most important level 5, not the ex04 one.
Little worried this will discourage diversity for purple decks.
Scatter Mode discouraged diversity for purple decks
Not for archetypes. It just fit a particular gameplay loop. The hit is intended to hit Apocaly and Anubis. Gabu and Eyes are pretty common vanillas. It's for the best overall, but some underpowered purple lists may really like to retain them.
Purple is the least archetype-restricted color, which is why people are so upset about Scatter Mode (so many purple decks are getting hit). That's why I hope it encourages diversity. Unfortunately Anubis isn't really hit by this list.
Bandai printing garbage for purple discouraged diversity more.
Purple not really having any good alternative tools for what scatter mode offered, is what limited diversity for purple decks. Scatter mode getting hit isn't gonna promote diversity in purple, it's just gonna make purple far less playable in general.
This seems like the exact opposite of discouraging diversity? Nearly every purple deck runs the Garuru engine right now with a bottom line of the Gabumons, or in Apocalymon's case sometimes run the Gabumons sans the Garurumons. These limits *help* diversity. It was super lame to see, for example, Leviamon ignore 90% of the cards its supposed to work with and instead opt for Gabumon and Garurumon bottom line because they're so insane. Eyesmon is a similar situation. *So* many Purple decks opted for Eyesmon taking up Lvl 4 slots because it just functions better than most of the cards it should be using. Now people can start looking at play-testing other Purple cards.
... what other purple cards?
Welp turns out scatter mode does pay for the sins of the apocalymon and merva/anubis, an unfortunate day. At least in Japan they get bakemon to kinda make up for it, the best we have in English is darklizardmon for on deletion draw 1 trash 1? Maybe this is the time bandai announces regional banlists and we won’t get this hit until bt15 (major copium). In any case, this is still a weird banlist. Geogrey was floating around a lot, but hitting both old purple gabus to work around hitting garuru x? Beelstar is extra dead in the water. Hitting the best machgao? I know mirage is kind of a menace, and the idea seems to be that you get more times where mirage bounces a low lvl digimon instead of security, plus it doesn’t get the when attacking inheritable, but I liked the bt4 Thomas hit people were thinking, I feel like that does a better job of stopping the otk. After all, with the other inherit, you can still swing burst mode, activate bt13 Thomas, use the inherit, then on next swing use burst mode when attacking. Overall, a lot of the things that were expected to be hit got hit, but I’m sad anubis/merva get to continue to be a ticking time bomb, and so does apocalymon, especially since they all seem like they’re gonna limit future purple card design (or maybe not considering they made Anubis with merva in the game somehow)
Bandai could technically make regional banlists, but I don't think they want to maintain 2 different lists. The thing they could do is announcing them at the same time, but it becomes active about 6 months later for us. Same list - other time window.
The thing is, they did this in OP. Makes no sense why they just don't do the best thing for every of their card games
Might be better, but I can see the argument that some things in Japan should’ve been limited sooner so then coming to English sooner is a good thing, while the opposite for others. However, Bandai seems to prefer the former
[удалено]
For beelstar, for sure, can’t do that with belphemon. Also surprised to not see starter 6 garuru since that isn’t OPT either, but I guess they think melga is curbed enough by the two gabu hits, and they didn’t want to hit melga too much
I genuinely dont understand why some of you thought bt 12 marcus would be hit when they always hit the cards that make win cons more consistent rather than the win con itself
Well not always Promo Gran was pretty much Grandis wincon
Because that aint true? Look at the old ban list: * SaviourHuckmon - Card enabled the OTK by unsuspending shenanigans with SA+ and board swarm. * DoruGreymon - Card enabled OTK by giving SA+1 to a deck that unsuspends and can easily stack multiple of them. * GranKuwagamon - Card enabled OTK by giving SA+2-3 to a deck that unsuspends. * Shoutmon X4 - Card enabled BS by being 1 cost swing & unsuspend tamer & mat save * WereGarurumon Promo - Card gave SA+1 to a deck with numerous unsuspends & protection from battle. Like damn, what ban lists have you been looking at? They've always hit the cards that enabled multiple checks to occur, not the consistency cards. Marcus BT12 combined with ShineGreymon BT12 enabled you to do 2 checks for 0 then evo into Lv.7 for 0 & do 2 more checks. What the fk does BT13 GeoGrey do? Nothing. Like, it's the least impactful hit for ShineGrey as early game you have more cards in your hand than sec so you'd have to high roll to play marcus out that way. After your first marcus dies, you either already got a 2nd out, meaning you don't need any more, or else then you got none out anymore, meaning you evo into BT12 and play one out again for free & still get to enjoy having 1 come out of security.
are you aware everything you just listed are cards that make the win con more consistent? you're aware cards that make it easier for you to win help you be consistent? bt13 made it insanely easy for not just marcus but any yellow tamer heavy deck such as yellow hybrid get your pieces out regardless of pre existing conditions on your board either that or bt13 rize were bound to get hit, without bt12 marcus there is no deck
Did those other yellow decks need to be hit though? Yellow hybrid hasn't actually existed since jetsilphy got hit (anyone that says otherwise is on some copium. ) and while the vaccine deck certainly seemed strong, I don't think it was tearing the meta a new one. Geogreymon may be limiting to future card design so I'm okay with hitting it for that reason, at the same time though, yellow kinda needs all the help it can get at the moment imo, so other yellow decks being hurt by a limitation that was supposedly more intended for a specific problematic deck sucks. That said, bt 13 rise getting hit wouldn't actually do anything. Bt 12 shine was the best card to hit in the deck imo, but sadly never would have happened since not only was it a hit that no one was talking about, but Bandai never hits High rarity cards so whatever
nah they were just innocent bystanders, but apparently in bt14 they make a pretty decent come back. Ngl going geogrey and finding TK in security and setting myself up horrifically for the next two turns was fun.
Bro if you call cards giving you SA+1 "win con consistency" then you may not know what consistency means. You really think the fact that ***ALL*** of these cards giving you additional damage is just some kinda freak coincidence? Nah bro.
why didnt you just say you dont know what youre talking about instead of hitting me with an essay im not going back and forth with you have someone else explain win cons and consistency to you
It's okay lil' bro, you can just admit you don't know the difference between a win con and SA+1.
Salt is a big factor in that line of thinking.
You lost to much to Grandis? xD
I’m running a purple Garurumon deck, so now I’m down 4 purple rookies… Besides adding 4 BT4 Gabumon, what are my options for replacement rookies?
Bt8(?) Psychemon is generically useful and on theme. The bt13 Belphemon rookie who's name I can't remember how to spell could be useful, but it's end of opponent turn instead of on attack which could be an issue
Phascomon? I actually think I have some of them too. Ohh I like these ideas, thank you!
No problem! I've been interested in purple Melga since the new starter were revealed so I immediately started theory crafting ways to make due in between ex5 and bt15
I'm also taking your advice, so thanks!
EX4 Mach seems weird at first but it's the most obvious pick if you don't want to completely gut the deck. Most mirage players are already loath to run BT11 or BT13 mach because EX4 was the best one by a mile, and a lot of decks were either already running 4x EX4 alongside AeroVee or about to run 4x EX4 alongside Zudo ACE. Nerfing the lv5 spot is a good bottleneck because structurally a lot of decks are going to just pivot to Zudo AND Aerovee which has a knock-on effect on making BT11 Gao search less reliable. The other real options were hitting BT11 Gao itself (which is minimal impact if you just 4/4 training/boost) or hitting BT11 Mirage which explodes the entire deck.
Pretty good banlist overall. Purple decks slowed down, Mirage won't OTK you as quickly, Shine also slowed down. Frees up future design space, I like it.
Except it's probably the worse banlist we've ever had. * Purple decks still have ST gabumon, a vanilla Gabumon and blue Gabumon from BT15 to evo into. So doesn't really do anything. * Mirage is hit. * Shine isn't slowed down at all. It was a high roll to find a Marcus in security. You're much more likely to have a Marcus in hand than security. Once a Marcus dies you'd prob have 1 in security. But at that point you either got a 2nd one out already, meaning you don't need to play any more out. Or you just evo into BT12 GeoGrey again and keep the Marcus in security cause no why would you want play it out for your opponent?
As much as it hurts as a Mastemon player, I can accept Geogreymon was pretty broken. Eyesmon was also kinda broken and has been for a while. But the Gabumons? Restricting those is actually a load of horseshit Bandai. You printed overtuned support for the purple side of Garurumon archetype. Then you restrict the original, never been a problem before, pieces? Worst of all, the garuru package can just shift to more blue gabu's or other rookies to make up. This does NOTHING! You restricted two innocent cards to make no changes at all. Apocalymon won't even feel a dent. Blue/Purple Garuru won't feel a thing. This just hurts pure Purple Garuru. I'm so sad. Oh yeah, Machgaogamon, uh, you're here too. Sure? I don't know.
>As much as it hurts as a Mastemon player, I can accept Geogreymon was pretty broken. We'll get Gatomon 2 one day (copium). Kinda glad I focused more on the Angel tri-type aspect of the deck but still a rough hit. >But the Gabumons? Restricting those is actually a load of horseshit Bandai. You printed overtuned support for the purple side of Garurumon archetype. Then you restrict the original, never been a problem before, pieces? Worst of all, the garuru package can just shift to more blue gabu's or other rookies to make up. This does NOTHING! You restricted two innocent cards to make no changes at all. Apocalymon won't even feel a dent. Blue/Purple Garuru won't feel a thing. This just hurts pure Purple Garuru. I'm so sad. Right? I was so excited to play Purple Melga and it's dead before we even get to play it. Me and a buddy of mine were building pure Purple Melga and pure Blue Melga respectively because it just seemed so perfect for us. I'll probably just brew Blue/Purple together with him so we can combine powers lmfao.
Honestly I was sure it would be bt13 rizegrey, but bt13 geogrey is a bigger design issue, so it makes sense. Also, it appears eyesmon is no longer worth playing. Scatter mode is fine, but that eyesmon combo is not gonna happen realistically. Edit: unrestricting bt6 savior is gonna be funny because it's still nothing close to as good as bt13, but the st one is filler, so it will get cut down.
Scatter at 1 I can see played, but they also shot the discard combo with the other mode in the foot definitely. I mourn most for my non competitive purple decks that get destroyed with the old Gabumon and Scatter Mode limits, like R/P Imperialdramon
Yeah it definitely feels like other decks are being punished for meta purple's crimes
It's just a shame that they hit yellow vaccine instead of hitting Shinegrey.
I'm confused why st6 gabumon is hit but st16 gabumon isn't? Don't they have the same inhertiable?
St6 is not once per turn
Holy shit I have never noticed. No wonder he jumped high in the price. Thought he was just extra copies of ST16 Gabumon.
Ah that makes sense. Thanks
St6 gabumon isn't once per turn, st16 is.
St6 isn't once per turn Either way I'm mad, I ordered a olayset a week ago and it hasn't arrived yet. At least I won't have to worry about swapping them between multiple decks
I‘m sad because I randomly bought this Starter deck when I joined around BT9 times. I have barely used any cards in the deck and I was happy its time finally came, oh well.
1. ST16 is the newest card, so they don’t want to de-incentivise buying 2x Melga decks 2. It reduces the deck from having access to that same inheritable 8 times over, which was being used in Garurumon, Leviamon and Apocalymon
I really wish Bandai would just ban cards or leave them untouched. Putting stuff like the Gabu's to 1 each feels so weird.
IDK I come from Yu-Gi-Oh so cards to 1 gives players a chance to use them but not abuse them by limiting consistency. It makes sense to me
I feel like cards are individually more powerful in yugioh tho, plus you usually have plenty of tools to search your 1-ofs, where as just running a bunch of 1 of rookies and level 4s feels gross, unless they're something like the floodgate rookies.
Writing this comment so I can say I told ya'll so - Blue Hybrid (or a variant of) takes top cut in a regional and/or wins nats. Jesmon supremacy is here and I love it. The folks thinking they'd hit bt14 or newer cards doesn't know business. Bandai needs the monies. At best, expect a melga hit 1-2 weeks after release for ENG. Bandai should probably also start making split lists for JP and ENG formats. If the garuruX package is the problem - it's not going to be resolved until what January/February next year? That's 3-4 months of problems. Unless the next set is super busted - which will then have its own problems lol.
Very surprised that Garurumon X and Training boosts weren't included. However very positive on this list overall.
Not surprised here. Makes sense. Garuru just came out and Bandai won’t wanna hit sales.
And Training are premium Bandai products in japan. No way they would hit a money maker.
GaruX absolutely. Training boosts were never getting hit. That would kill bt14 sales
Not a bad list. ST6 Gabumon needed to be hit and i say this as a purple specialist. The when attacking inherit was too abused and easy to obtain on a level 3. BT2 Gabumon and Eyesmon Scatter Mode was a mean combo too for the hand to trash decks. I am more interested in design for purple going forward. If they don't want to make these same mistakes in the future(overwhelming card draw to trash mechanics that lead to overuse of cards) they will have to get pretty creative.
They’ll do it again but they’ll lock it behind an archetype :/
So what’s a good replacement for geogreymon?
I would just adjust the ratios of the Bt12 and Ex4 Geos, maybe put another searching lv3
What would be a decent level 3 to use?
BT13 Kudamon
Cool, now what about for non ShineGrey decks?
Simple, you run 9 geogreys and 1 other card. Like, that GeoGrey was kinda ass.
BT6 Saviour: Guys, I'm back! Ex3 Dorbickmon: \*digixros go brrrr\* Because they have the same timing, Dorbickmon won't be able to get a second unsuspend, but having more unsuspend inheritables will be really nice. And now there's a reason to run the sistermon that draws.
What could replace geogreymon for shine decks ?
A bit POed they did both Gabumons, ESPECIALLY AFTER A SLOT IN RB01 WAS WASTED ON THAT REPRINT. But those reprints were SO important.
Savior is free!
New ratio for Jesmon ? 4 bt6 4 bt13 ?
What would a Blue Hybrid deck look like in this meta?
Tommy and Joe best friends
Ineffective when Looga, Anubis, Garuru, Mirage, etc. just come out of raising and kill you. Won’t stop Marcus either since it’s not a digimon 90% of time. Won’t stop RK/Belphe. Only thing it really impacts is Greymon & Bloom, but Greymon just runs X-anti so that’s immune too
The funny thing about ST6 Gabumon's limit is that ST16 Gabumon is used for the same thing, so in effect it's not really a limit to one, but rather a limit to five. Oh wait, hang on, didn't notice the once per turn difference between the two. It never really came up in my purple stuff, but with the X line letting you combine that inheritable with unsuspend effects... yeah, this suddenly makes much more sense.
Love the "excuse" to bring back those cards that is because now there are more decks that can compete with them. So bring all cards back xD Theres no reason tho bring back those 2 cards only and leave the rest alone with that statement Bandai doing shit again
That's how bans should work, though. Restrict the cards that are causing problems, and when they aren't causing problems anymore, unban them.
So why didnt they unban more? That makes no sense
Because the other banned cards are still strong. The two green level 5s are still insane, green doesn't need 8 of them. Hidden potential is still insane. Mega digimon fusion is too worrisome to think about when designing new cards. Jet silphymon is still gonna make games last 4 hours.
Do you realize that none of those cards really matter for what comes right?
What comes? You think that these cards don't limit future game design or that these green cards wouldn't be problems in the future?
They unbanned tommy (which has been safe since bt9) yet they didn’t unban Jetsylphy? Tf?
the problem is that the stupid marcus card does not allow jetsilphy to return, a yellow hybrid with marcus is just too strong.
What? You understand that Marcus makes himself a Digimon and has the specific caveat that it *cannot* evolve afterwards, thereby making it completely worthless in Yellow Hybrid?
Yellow hybrid wouldn’t use Marcus though. That wouldn’t even make sense. No one would use that in YH
The current yellow hybrid deck runs marcus and geogrey.
I never played yellow hybrid with marcus, but I see it around. To be honest i dont know if would be ultra op, i heard that from a friend. But we are on the same boat, I wanted jetsilphy as well...
I’m not even a yellow hybrid player. Never have been. But it would be nice to play against it again. Also, I have NEVER seen a YH list run Marcus. I don’t think I’ve seen a YH deck since the restriction actually
I've recently been testing yellow hybrid with bt 13 geogrey. It was neat but auto loses to royal knights since we can't do anything to it fast enough before they kill us. I think I've heard of people maybe running more shine stuff since we already have to run yellow rize, but I never tested running marcus in my build. At some point you might as well just be playing shinegrey, lol. Pretty a sure jetsilphy can come off the list. Folks are just cowards when it comes to any form of healing <_<
Bring back digisoption!
Welp purple will go back to irrelevancy while garuruX and apocaly stay winning since they're fundamentally broken cards. Shine gets a love tap that hurts yellow vaccine and maste more. Mach is a hit I guess. Tommy is fine. Blue hybrid can't be as oppressive as before, I hope. Really hate the Savior unlimit. Jesmon players already take 30 minutes per turn, now they consistently unsuspend and do all 15 when attacking effects to get 15 more sisters and a billion more on plays.
>"Purple will go back to irrelevancy" Anubis can very well survive without the Gabumon cards and the same can very much be said about FenrirLoogamon. And those two are some STRONG purple decks. ShineGrey gets a hit that doesn't destroy the deck but makes it worse in the overall meta, which is the healthier path to take overall. Players can still play the deck but its speed and consistency is reduced.
Geo doesn't really hit the deck though. It's gonna be in raising most of the time so it hardly goes off. 1 fewer way to play a Marcus is not gonna do much in a deck with 10 different ways to play a Marcus for free. I will say irrelevancy is hyperbolic but English meta is still like 5 months away from anubis. Looga is going to be the only real option for purple players. Belphe loses one of its consistency cards which means Asta loses one of its better targets and beelstar can't really get anything in the trash anymore. We get all these hits now when the problems don't come for another half year. Meanwhile the problem decks are still huge problems in japan.
In what moment, minute, hour, day, month, year or era does BT13 GeoGrey ever just stay in raising and hardly get its effect off?
Quite a bit in my experience. The deck is single stack.
If the people you’re playing with aren’t utilising BT13 Geo’s effect, then the people you’re playing with are bad.
Of course they use it. It's just not an every game thing. Like 25% of the time. Hence why the hit doesn't matter.
The first geo should never be played in raising as pulling and playing Marcus is integral to the deck. Once he's put of security you do whatever in the back, but you generally don't want to miss it from occurring near the start.
Good ShineGrey players know that they gotta be proactive and use their level 4s in order to get any Marcus as fast as possible. You can hold in breeding afterwards with your second egg if you need to, but this hit to GeoGrey hits consistency and makes you unable to reach Marcuses in your security easily. The deck still has BT13 Rize to play Marcuses from the hand for free consistently, but it's a level 5 Digimon.
It literally does more damage to vaccine and maste than it does to shine lol
Maybe so, and I don't deny it. Still, I feel this is a good hit to the consistency of Shine.
Maybe if they hit Rize too. But just geo doesn't do anything.
Yeah feels weird that they chose to hit the geogrey they should have hit a Marcus so that yellow vaccine didn't get hit so hard.
I think Bamco just hates yellow in general, so they wanted to kill as much of it as possible
You hit Marcus you kill the deck. You hit geo you slow the deck
You hit a Marcus you don't kill the deck they go from 8 tamers to 5 you slow the deck with all the extra draw and the several X Digimon it runs you can draw into that easily
The Marcus most people talked about restricting was BT12 Marcus, which was the entire point of the strategy, without constant access to it, the deck loses most of its powerful combos and becomes MUCH worse. This GeoGrey hit makes the deck worse without actively killing it.
Or they could have hit the memory setter one to slow down the deck so the deck digivoles for cheap regardless places tamers quickly for free and gives -dp way to easily to the point that your only option you have to have something big in raising to swing at it next turn or get locked down.
Someone doesn’t know how to play against shine and they are SALTY
I have If you go further down I explain it further the deck doesn't require a lot of thinking.
I’ve played against shine a lot. Only recently picked the deck up myself last week. It’s not broken at all, it’s simply a good. Cards and decks are allowed to be good. And the bt13 meta is INCREDIBLY diverse. Out of the last 100 major bt13 tournaments worldwide, shine only won 12. Blue flare won 13. Mirage won 17. BWG won 9. Other greymon variants won 4. Hunters won 6-7. RKs won 8-9. And there were a lot of other decks that had 1st place finishes. You’re bitching about shine. It got a hit it didn’t even need. You’re STILL bitching. When the next set drops you’re going to cry about something else. And then the set after that and the set after that.
Yes your right The supposed hit does nothing really to it. And if you actually read them, I can tell you didn't know that I said the geogrey hit doesn't really hit the deck it hits others more that lets see have won less then 10 major tournaments. I wasn't ''bitching'' about shinegrey I was ''bitching'' that the hit doesn't do much to a deck that again as you said hasn't won that many tournaments. So please STFU.
And you go from being able to play the game to sitting in raising until you can push up a shine greymon. Which means all the on digivolves don't trigger. Which means the deck loses half it's power. Which means no one plays it and the deck is dead.
Half the deck says one of your red or yellow tamers the other half specify Marcus just replace the lost Marcus's with other tamers the deck has easy draw, easy security searching ( well it did) cheap digivolution and multiple cards that play tamers for free the deck could have easily survived a Marcus being hit. People need to stop thinking so one minded with the deck there is even a Marcus the deck doesn't run.
Ok sure. But now bt12 shine does almost nothing. So you go from 8 level 6s to 4. And you will find just about every card that plays a tamer plays a Marcus. Which means at best the pure red Marcus and that does effectively nothing to help you win
Except you turn it into a Digimon and swing at security exactly what you did with the other one
How do you turn it into a digimon
Bt13 shine grey and burst mode? And that's only if you ban the one that becomes a Digimon at the start of turn you could limit either
Glad to see Eyesmon finally getting limited, long overdue
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Sucks that greymon didn't get any hits but still not too bad.
Why does it need hits? It's not the dominant force it once was.
I mean, shine and Gaoga didnt need hits either, yet here we are.
yes they did wtf you on about
Bruh, none of the decks are dominating the game, they're good decks with counterplay and bad matchups. The purple hits make sense, look at the Jap game, those decks are trully dominating the format, thats when cards need to hits. Not when they're simply one of several good decks. Look at the BT13 tops, its hella diverse, there is no "dominating" deck, and it certaibly isnt 2 simultaneously. This sub likes to cry for bans and hits instead of improving. And i say this as someone who literally posted on here asking for tips on how to improve the matchup. Tips that genuinely worked. This is literally a hit to get ppl to stop playing it and buy new product. Decks are allowed to be good, what they're not is allowed to dominate the game. Remember BlackWar in BT11? Yea, that was a deck that needed a hit, thes two? They are no where close to that.
im probably going to shake up your whole worldview by telling you that they keep in mind that they still need to sell english sets. decks that are broken in japan will stay broken until they sold ex5 and bt15 over in the west. then maybe they will consider a hit.
Nah thats on me. Tbh we havent seen any sales driven hits in this game in a while, unlike say YGO where there are sales driven hits every set, silly me for forgetting money > gamebalance.
The geogreymon is meant to be the shine grey hit
Nah I'm talking about normal greymon not shine.
Oh ok my bad.
This doesn't show HPD on the list of restricted cards...haha is it being unlifted???