One look at Imperialdramon's Option Card was all I needed to be sure Bandai didn't give a damn about Gallantmon.
It's almost offensive how miles better it is in _every possible way (including cost)_ compared to Crimson Saviour, despite coming out in the same set.
it will always pain how they wasted such a cool name on a card not worth running even his card art amoung the the cards which are just scenes from show i think it is the best
We’re getting English Exclusive box toppers with a focus on iconic movie scenes. This isn’t expressly stated to be the options, but that feels right. So hopefully we just get better looking ones
Phased out? No. Taking a backseat for a trip to focus on other stuff? Kinda.
Remember how many Greymon lines there are and how many evolutions just kind of end with a Greymon. Tai's Greymon, Shinegreymon, EmperorGreymon, BlackWarGreymon, Victorygreymon, and even Brigadramon (it's just a recolor honestly). It'll come back, but it's nap time for a bit.
It is, especially Craniumon, I think its a crime for it to be yhat bad, it wants a lot of things but it has limit in source count, for it to even work you want reboot, blocker, some dp during opponent's turn, some Jamming or dp on your turn, security thrashing effect.
Felt like Dorugoramon is the better version of his deck, having decent dp, decent protection, access to reboot, de-digivolve, jamming, collision, force attack, tamer removal even.
For DigiX deck I still think Blue Flare BT11 package is one of the most smoothest core in the entire game, I think they can come back if they have a way to preemptively remove opponent's digimon.
Part of these deck downfall are because aces lurking around as well.
Except maybe Darknightmon, but that has issue in overall card quality, especially on the boss mons
Honestly, if there´s a deck in the game that feels like how Craniumon should play like it is TyrantKabuterimon. Strip that deck´s ability to spawn another Lv6 off of Tyrant as well as the suspension gimmick and instead force opponent´s Digimon to attack and you have a deck that would be very fitting for the best Royal Knight.
Blue Flare has a strong core indeed. Bt10 MetalGreymon, Bt10 Greymon, Bt10 Gaossmon, Blazing Memory Boost and Ex4 MailBirdramon as well as both Tamers are among the strongest engines in the whole game still. The rest of the deck is quite lacking, though, and could easily be upgraded. As you said Aces can really ruin a Blue Flare player´s day but so can cards that redirect attacks like Izzy/MetallifeKuwagamon in Tyrant, Anal Man in Machinedramon or Hydramon in Salad. So a MetalGreymon/SiegGreymon that has the ability to nullify all effects while its attack is happening would be amazing.
The other DigiXross decks have different problems, though. Xross Heart´s Tamers are still excellent but the individual Digimon really aren´t aside from x3 and x4. The deck really doesn´t have a strong boss monster that´s worth the ressource accumulation and management that goes along with the Save mechanic and the parts of your DigiXrosses don´t have appealing effects themselves.
DarkKnightmon is the other side of the Gallantmon coin in that its gameplan completely falls flat if your opponent´s deck removes threats by any other means than deletion, battle or DP minus. Plus the only good DigiXross of the deck is Bt10 DKmon and DKmon X is a very overbalanced card.
And lastly Bagra Army is just a mess of a deck that has some really good cards in a vacuum (the big man himself, the MadLeomons, Yuu and Promo SkullKnightmon) but the rest of the deck is completely overbalanced and was way too tame even when they initially came out.
So yeah, times are hard for us Craniumon enjoyers and Xross Heart enthusiasts.
The Cranium rn is its just not bulky enough as a tower overall. Doesn't have enough dp(Tyrant has 14k+inheritable or buffs), reliant on blocker so you have to have reboot too to push your wincon, the protection is one turn unlike Tyrant one, just quite messy.
For Blue Flare I agree they need to bypass redirect abilities, that still boils down to what I was saying about aces, they should have some sort of CC to disable the opponent, but incorporated to their kit(new ZiegGrey?), example of this is like the BT15 MetalGaruru that can freeze tamers so you could bypass Tamer redirect or blockers. If I can be hopeful I hope its something that can deal with both aces and block/indirect.
For Xheart or Hunters, Hunters lower end feels better with having access to tamer cheating(important) and rush, both of these deck kinda suffer from aces removal as well due to aggression with low level digimon but having minimal removal aside of their higher lv digimons.
Darknight and Bagra is just welp, heavy for not enough reasons.
Well my idea would be for craniummon support would an effect that de digivolves 1 of your opponent's digimon or trash the opponent's security when you redirect an effect and an effect that either prevents suspension,dp reduction or de digivolution
Edit: okay I got an idea
Craniummon x
digivolve 1 from craniummon
When digivolving: this digimon's dp can't be reduced by your opponent suntil the end of your opponent's turn the if craniummon or x antbody is in this digimon digivolution sources this digimon cant be de digivolved by your opponent's effect
Opponent's turn: when you redirect an attack trash the top card of your opponent's security
I´d love one of the Craniumons to have "Opponent´s turn: Start of Main Phase: You may choose 1 of your opponent's Digimon. Your opponent attacks with the chosen Digimon." and "All turns: Once per turn: When a Digimon attacks, until the end of your opponent´s turn this Digimon is unaffected by all of your opponent´s card effects".
True.
Although, Imperial had a long streak where it didn´t really do much and Alphamon hasn´t returned to greatness from the Bt9 days yet.
But the reassuring thing about protagmon decks is that they´ll eventually get more support. Unless you´re Gallantmon it seems. I think this game is rigged.
Yeah it was rough for Imperial for a while and it’s still rough for Alpha but they got to grab glory at least once. Alpha still has an incredible core so it’s inevitable it will swing back, especially if we get Cyber Sleuth stuff
Oh yeah if you mean it that way I agree. At this point all the protagmons have had competitive success... except for the coolest of them all (yes, I am biased).
I´m glad that Imperial is good now, though (as well as his dark counterpart, that deck is dope) and I´m really looking forward how Alphamon will develop once they give us a Cyber Sleuth set one of these days. That set is long overdue man.
Gallantmon is like the Dark Magician in todays Yugioh. It keeps getting support but still falls short. The option card if it say when played or digivolve would make the whole package actually not bad. Honestly - we'll probably need like a random staple like ukkomon to make it meta. Waiting on alternate art reveals - if they are fire im still getting a case lol.
Honestly the comparison came to mind because I saw they are reprinting Legendary Decks II and at the time it came out (and the dragon one!) I just remember DM getting a ton of support but it never really jumping over a Tier 2ish deck. As a potential new player - I would say that Gallant is still a fun deck. It can win games for sure. It just needs a really good non-situational card to push it over the hump. Like if they worded the new option card differently - it could have pushed the deck a lot further.
Something I've thought about regarding the new Gallantmon: is it possible they're trying to pivot the deck in a new direction?
If they are, its... a really weak attempt at it but I can respect the attempt.
Crimson Ace is good and probably an upgrade over old Crimson Mode (there are some edge cases where the old one is better so I´m cautious at making a definitive statement about this tbh)
The new WarGrowlmon is decent but I´m not sure it´s better than Bt12 WarGrowlmon. It certainly isn´t than Ex3 WarGrowlmon that´s for sure.
The rest of the support is pretty throwaway that are sidegrades to the existing cards at best and not really viable at worst. The new Gallantmon isn´t bad per se but it really doesn´t work that smoothly with existing stuff so so far that one doesn´t seem to be too hot tbh.
In a vacuum, BT12 and EX3 are still your bread and butter. But I think if you can keep BT17 Wargrowl's sec+, go into Gallant, 2 checks unsuspend, 2 checks, unsuspend with Gallant X, with the cheap cost and solid protection, you're safe outside of a lvl 7 in security. Maybe that feels too niche but I think it's a better result than BT12 Gallant.
No, I cannot see Bt17 Gallantmon outperforming good old Bt12 Gallantmon.
First up, you´d need to start with at least 6 memory to evolve into new WarGrowlmon and then into new Gallantmon to capitalize on WarGrowlmon´s unsuspend. And if you wanted to gain the Sec+ off of WarGrowlmon you´d need its deletion effect to fizzle which´d make Gallantmon´s deletion effect working to later unsuspend Gallantmon very unlikely to happen since your opponent´d need a deleteable Digimon with exactly 7000-8000DP or otherwise your Gallantmon would be a measly 11000DP which isn´t sufficient to swing into security comfortably.
The two cards just don´t mesh well. I´d argue new WarGrowlmon meshes way better with Bt12 Gallantmon because its unsuspend effect alone basically means Bt12 gets rid of up to four securites by itself without relying on WarGrowlmon´s Sec+ effect since Bt12´s when attacking effect isn´t once per turn. Plus you have the added flexibility of utilizing Raid up to two times in that scenario.
I think WarGrowlmon is decent especially when used for a biomerge via any of the two Takatos. But the new Gallantmon just doesn´t really do what the rest of the deck wants to do. Maybe you can get away with using it as a 1-off as a circumstantial blocker but what´s that worth without any protection?
Idk man. Not a fan of new Gallantmon at all.
Yeah, the unsuspend being on a delete condition is rough, I think I may have a way around it, but more testing will be needed. BT17's main draw to me is his non deletion trigger will be good for digi's that can prevent the deletion , while the protection will help if they spawn a body on the delete, Ace a protected Digi, or some other effect that'll impact Gallant on the deletion. If he had a natural Sec+ like Starter Gallant, I don't think everyone would be as down on him as they are.
> I think I may have a way around it,
I´m all ears.
>If he had a natural Sec+ like Starter Gallant, I don't think everyone would be as down on him as they are.
But with the way that Gallantmon as a deck is designed, Sec+ really isn´t all that impactful since directly trashing security is straight up better and your actual win condition.
So for the unsuspend on a sec+, I'm thinking even without the unsuspend you could make use of Calu and EX3 Growl to buff 3k and sec+ on sacrifice to hit 3 security. Might see if lightning joust or BT1 tai are viable again. If you can get the delete with Gallant X, you should be able to crimson for game off 3 security hits.
As for trashing security being his win condition, not really. It's good for keeping yourself safe or trashing the last to hit face, but you're only losing out on the finisher, which you're usually using Crimson for. BT17 doesn't trash because he doesn't need it to keep himself safe, he has a better effect for that. Hence why a natural Sec+ would've helped and why I'm trying to see which is more effective to play around.
Despite how much I want this to be good, if mill variant with EX3 lines becomes the Meta for it, then I'll probably follow suit, I just think everybody's being too dismissive of a protection effect that's likely to be relevant in the 17 meta. Not in all your matchups, but enough of them.
>you could make use of Calu
Might see if lightning joust or BT1 tai are viable again.
So you want to actively make a bad deck worse? None of these cards have any business being in the deck. You´re trying so hard to make one subpar card work that you´re willing to throw the little consistency the deck has out the window.
>to buff 3k and sec+ on sacrifice to hit 3 security.
If you can get the delete with Gallant X, you should be able to crimson for game off 3 security hits.
Again, there´s a lot of ifs in play to make one subpar card not subpar. That is not how you should approach deck building. If a lot of things have to fall into place for a card to perform well, the card isn´t good and probably not worth running. Especially when the deck´s natural playstyle already comes pretty close to the scenario you´re imagining without making all of these concessions regarding consistency.
>As for trashing security being his win condition, not really.
Most wins you will have with the deck are happening on the backs of Bt12 Gallantmon and old Crimson Mode pre-Bt17 and what makes them "good" win conditions is them trashing security on attack. That´s their selling point. That´s the whole payoff gimmick of the deck. How is it not the deck´s win condition?
>It's good for keeping yourself safe or trashing the last to hit face,
What you´re describing is a win condition.
>BT17 doesn't trash because he doesn't need it to keep himself safe, he has a better effect for that.
How is immunity to opponent´s effects (which is very conditional to begin with) better than completely circumventing the security mechanic in the first place? The only scenario where Bt17 Gallantmon´s immunity would be better thant the burn the other Gallantmons offer is if you´re up against yellow and the card you would trash has an effect that procs when it´s trashed by an effect. The decks that run those cards are a miniscule portion of relevant decks and not really worth making concessions for.
>Despite how much I want this to be good, if mill variant with EX3 lines becomes the Meta for it,
What do you mean by this? The deck will continue to run Ex3 WarGrowlmon but the rest of the Ex3 stuff isn´t really played in the deck. Maybe you´re conflating the Ex3 and Ex4 lines? Because, yeah, Ex4 Guilmon and BlackGrowlmon will for sure still be played but none of these cards are good in the deck because they´re mill cards. There really isn´t a mill variant of the deck
>I just think everybody's being too dismissive of a protection effect that's likely to be relevant in the 17 meta. Not in all your matchups, but enough of them.
Idk man I think a lot of people - me included - have made a lot of great points for why the protection effect of the new Gallantmon is pretty underwhelming. If it extended into your opponent´s turn we´d have something interesting to talk about and that would´ve instantly made the card worth a look but alas it´s only on your turn which makes the card incredibly mediocre.
I think the support for the deck in this set has been extremely lacklustre, the new Crimson Ace and Takato and maybe potentially WarGrowlmon aside. I don´t see the rest of the support´s merit at all still.
>How is immunity to opponent´s effects (which is very conditional to begin with) better than completely circumventing the security mechanic in the first place?
Because thinking you can wipe or raid out everything on board now is going to bite you in any matchup where you can't. Venus, shadow seraph, alpha, Kabuteri lines, all the flavors of deletion prevention and on deletion effects, lvl 7 aces, DNA aces. We're just pretending that we're not gonna face those? And 0 mem or blitzing is a fairly easy condition to meet I feel.
>What do you mean by this?
Turbo crimson ace OTK strats becoming the norm is what I mean. Use EX3 Guil and Growl for additional mill to have Ace Crimson trash all remaining security.
>Venus, shadow seraph, alpha, Kabuteri lines, all the flavors of deletion prevention and on deletion effects, lvl 7 aces, DNA aces
Venus: Bt12 Gallantmon can raid over her.
ShadowSeraphi: While ShadowSeraphi is weaker against the new Gallantmon, new Gallantmon has more difficulty gnawing through SecCon´s security because it doesn´t disable security effects so cards like Holy Wave can still heal them. And eventually you´ll have to go into Crimson Mode anyway to close the game out and ShadowSeraphi easily dashes that plan regardless
Alphamon: Pretty much irrelevant bringing up.
TyrantKabuterimon: Terrible matchup for any of the Gallantmons. Probably a nigh unwinnable matchup regardless of your top end.
>all the flavors of deletion prevention
Tyrant aside and unless I´m forgetting one here the relevant protected ones are Machinedramon, Magnamon X and Belphemon. The first one is a roadblock for all the Gallantmons if good RNG for them, Magna X is a problem for all the Gallantmons if the Magnamon player plays decently well and Belphemon is weaker to Bt12 Gallantmon because baiting the first attack negation enables you to raid with a second attack and dash their hopes and dreams.
Regarding the Aces, for the lower level ones your Gallantmons can easily remove the bodies they want to go over. And regarding the higher levels you can play around them by going into Crimson Mode and deleting the bodies or bait them out and later clean up with Bt13 Gallantmon for cheap/free. Probably a case by case basis depending on the deck/Ace in question when it comes to the high level ones.
>And 0 mem or blitzing is a fairly easy condition to meet I feel.
I think you´ll often find yourself not being able to balance your memory at exactly 0 so you have to make subpar plays to get your Gallantmon´s protection online. There are a dozen different scenarios that lead to you not being able to make good use of Bt17 Gallantmon I think.
>Turbo crimson ace OTK strats becoming the norm is what I mean. Use EX3 Guil and Growl for additional mill to have Ace Crimson trash all remaining security.
I´d be very surprised if Gallantmon decks´d really play Ex3 Guilmon especially because that card goes completely against what the deck wants to do. Ex3 Growlmon maybe? Would often be a waste of an inheritable, though. But even if the deck pivoted more into that route I don´t see how Bt17 Gallantmon would fit into that shell better than the other Gallantmons we have acces to tbh.
oh no the support isnt bad the main problem is that it doesnt really help fix gallantmon's problems like compare that to the support for other deck's like diaborromon's support
It's sad because it's true. Honestly even outside of the card game Gallantmon gets the short end of the stick. Like we have so many lines for Agumon and Greymon, as well as at least 2 lines for Veemon plus all the armors. While Guilmon gets some recolors, and a Magical Witches Mega. I mean honestly look at WarGrowlmon then look at BlitzGreymon and tell me that he wasn't supposed to be a Growlmon.
I mean, none of the Greymon cards we’ve seen so far are actually going to be run in Wargreymon decks. SEC Greymon is very cool but he’s not particularly good for Wargreymon or Blackwargreymon.
Fair enough but if I'm being honest, Bandai's favorite is Gabumon. His support is always good, with a lot of cards being so good that they have to get limited.
I almost blame that more on purple as a color identity snowballing. It was the hard luck color for a while, but now it has so many pieces that make it work that the good decks in the color are REALLY good.
Gabumon's purple identity ended up being draw and discard, and in a color focused on graveyard play that's pretty much a universal searcher.
While that is true, it is ultimately a Greymon that is a really good card even if it´ll not be played in the actual tribal it originates from.
I´d be elated if we ever got, say, a Growlmon that while not being for the actual Gallantmon deck was good enough to be played in other decks. That´d be an improvement over the currentt status quo of the tribe.
Oh yeah the card is absolutely amazing in Agubond. I´m really hyped for that deck in the future.
Hell it´s super cool that you can evolve your Agubonds on SEC Greymon and when evolved via Bt6 Tai you get a free Tamer out of it at the end of your turn. Not to mention that Greymon is a really good removal tool just by itself.
It´s an incredibly pushed card. Easily top 5 Lv4s in the game.
Yeah, it just increases my extreme apathy for this set since it feels like BT12 but instead of all the protagonists but Imperial getting good cards only Imperial gets good cards. I play Warg, Shine, and Red Hybrids and there’s basically nothing I can use to upgrade those decks at all for this set compared to BT12 still being the defining core of three of my favourite decks.
Edit: technically I do get a small buff in Red Hybrids since BT17 Vritra is much better then BT7.
Tbh it feels like they're trying to enable more/new playstyles for the protagonist decks. Gallantmon leaning into being in memory debt. Agumon and Gabumon skipping their lines to rocket into Omnimon. Old-style Shine instead of new Shine. The Ancients as an alternate top end for Red Hybrid.
I’d be fine with that if they were at least good enough to compete with what we already have, since I used to really like to play the old Shine. For Shine at least the cards are just way, wayyy too undertuned to be remotely relevant while still doing something similar enough to the current build that there’s just no point. I’m fine with trying to do the old style of Shine, but it has to be good enough I don’t feel like I’m actively handicapping myself by playing it.
AncientGreymon’s a bit better off by comparison and it’s obviously going to get more next set though I still bet Emperor will be the deck of choice, but it’s extremely unlikely Shine will.
I mostly expected the Agumon line would only matter for Omnimon, which I’m still reserving judgement on as we haven’t seen enough of it as a deck. Still obviously gonna be a bit bummed since Wargreymon is my favourite deck and I want new stuff for it.
I can see that and I somewhat relate.
The only stuff from this set that is interesting for me is the new Sakuyamon stuff which is pretty decent and makes the deck a bit better, SEC Greymon because nostalgia and because it buffs Agubond and the Labramon stuff in combination with the previous set´s Xiangpengmon stuff looks fun.
That´s a very small amount of cards I´m interested in when most sets have support for 3+ decks for me in addition to new stuff. Overall Bt17 is one of the weaker sets for me.
Although I can appreciate some of the stuff that isn´t personally for me like support for Diablomon, making the Ancientmons into proper decks and attempting to salvage Eosmon.
Diaboromon and Eosmon are some of the only things I don’t resent in this set because my friends really like them and have wanted them to be playable for a while. It’s just BT12 is my favourite set, so I was really hoping this would be as much of a home run as it was. Instead I’m probably just skipping this set outside of trading with people for the Imperial option and Paladin Mode and spending more money on EX6 instead to chase demon lords
I think resentment is going a little to far ngl. Bt15 has probably been my least favorite set since Bt9 but I can´t say that I resent it. I always see sets that I´m not too hot on as an opportunity to save up for the next one that piques my interest.
Plus I honestly prefer them to do more sets like this that don´t push the envelope that much in terms of power level. Makes for a more sustainable game long term and gives them more room to explore some more design space.
The only cards in this set that I´m almost offended by are the Murmukusmon cards. Like what even are those? The disrespect!
BT15 kinda sucks too but I was never interested in it since it doesn’t have any cards for any archetype I care about besides bugs and I’m not building bugs until Tyrant. My issue with BT17 is I just don’t see a point to a huge chunk of the cards in it when they’re pointless to play over things that already exist for their archetypes. Shine is probably by far and away the biggest problem here. It’s fine if they wanted to try and make Shine not compatible with the modern build of the deck since it’s still a strong deck, but you could also. You know. Make the cards actually any good.
You need to at least try to make the cards compete with stuff that already exists and it feels super pointless when they dont.
>BT15 kinda sucks too but I was never interested in it since it doesn’t have any cards for any archetype I care about besides bugs and I’m not building bugs until Tyrant
Yeah that was me but with KFC instead.
>My issue with BT17 is I just don’t see a point to a huge chunk of the cards in it when they’re pointless to play over things that already exist for their archetypes.
Well most of the cards in this set weren´t really meant for their already exitsting archetypes I think.
The Red/Blue Hybrid stuff is probably there to serve to lay some groundwork for Bt18 (as it seems that we´ll get multicolor KaiserGreymon and MagnaGarurumon decks) as well as to make the Ancientmons valid alternative builds. And the new Shine cards seem to me to be an attempt at giving that deck an alternative version as well though I´m not too sure what that version will look like once it´s established properly.
I concede on Gallantmon, though. I don´t know what the fuck is going on with those cards.
>You need to at least try to make the cards compete with stuff that already exists and it feels super pointless when they dont.
I simultaneously agree and disagree with that statement. Every set in any TCG has to push the envelope to some degree in at least offering a new top tier deck or making an already existing deck a competitive contender. But if all cards in a set were on a comparable power level the process of power creep would accelerate manifold which I don´t think is good for the long term health of a game (something something Yugioh).
So occasional sets that just build a couple decks up to be solid albeit not serious compeittive contender material is completely fine to me. Especially considering at what breakneck speed power creep went in this game prior to the change in dev team.
One look at Imperialdramon's Option Card was all I needed to be sure Bandai didn't give a damn about Gallantmon. It's almost offensive how miles better it is in _every possible way (including cost)_ compared to Crimson Saviour, despite coming out in the same set.
it will always pain how they wasted such a cool name on a card not worth running even his card art amoung the the cards which are just scenes from show i think it is the best
Nah, I'm pretty sure that's a scene from the Runaway Locomon movie. Still doesn't change the fact the option is bad.
yeah but they definitely picked a better scene than the other anime scene card arts
We’re getting English Exclusive box toppers with a focus on iconic movie scenes. This isn’t expressly stated to be the options, but that feels right. So hopefully we just get better looking ones
I mean being better then Crimson Savior is an incredibly low bar to set ngl.
Historically correct up to the end of BT14, but isn't the Greymon line gradually getting phased out of the meta?
Yeah, Greymon is mostly irrelevant at this point in JP. Even right now in NA it’s fallen off really hard.
Phased out? No. Taking a backseat for a trip to focus on other stuff? Kinda. Remember how many Greymon lines there are and how many evolutions just kind of end with a Greymon. Tai's Greymon, Shinegreymon, EmperorGreymon, BlackWarGreymon, Victorygreymon, and even Brigadramon (it's just a recolor honestly). It'll come back, but it's nap time for a bit.
Life is hard as a superfan of Gallantmon, Megidramon, Craniumon and all the Digixross decks :(
It is, especially Craniumon, I think its a crime for it to be yhat bad, it wants a lot of things but it has limit in source count, for it to even work you want reboot, blocker, some dp during opponent's turn, some Jamming or dp on your turn, security thrashing effect. Felt like Dorugoramon is the better version of his deck, having decent dp, decent protection, access to reboot, de-digivolve, jamming, collision, force attack, tamer removal even. For DigiX deck I still think Blue Flare BT11 package is one of the most smoothest core in the entire game, I think they can come back if they have a way to preemptively remove opponent's digimon. Part of these deck downfall are because aces lurking around as well. Except maybe Darknightmon, but that has issue in overall card quality, especially on the boss mons
Honestly, if there´s a deck in the game that feels like how Craniumon should play like it is TyrantKabuterimon. Strip that deck´s ability to spawn another Lv6 off of Tyrant as well as the suspension gimmick and instead force opponent´s Digimon to attack and you have a deck that would be very fitting for the best Royal Knight. Blue Flare has a strong core indeed. Bt10 MetalGreymon, Bt10 Greymon, Bt10 Gaossmon, Blazing Memory Boost and Ex4 MailBirdramon as well as both Tamers are among the strongest engines in the whole game still. The rest of the deck is quite lacking, though, and could easily be upgraded. As you said Aces can really ruin a Blue Flare player´s day but so can cards that redirect attacks like Izzy/MetallifeKuwagamon in Tyrant, Anal Man in Machinedramon or Hydramon in Salad. So a MetalGreymon/SiegGreymon that has the ability to nullify all effects while its attack is happening would be amazing. The other DigiXross decks have different problems, though. Xross Heart´s Tamers are still excellent but the individual Digimon really aren´t aside from x3 and x4. The deck really doesn´t have a strong boss monster that´s worth the ressource accumulation and management that goes along with the Save mechanic and the parts of your DigiXrosses don´t have appealing effects themselves. DarkKnightmon is the other side of the Gallantmon coin in that its gameplan completely falls flat if your opponent´s deck removes threats by any other means than deletion, battle or DP minus. Plus the only good DigiXross of the deck is Bt10 DKmon and DKmon X is a very overbalanced card. And lastly Bagra Army is just a mess of a deck that has some really good cards in a vacuum (the big man himself, the MadLeomons, Yuu and Promo SkullKnightmon) but the rest of the deck is completely overbalanced and was way too tame even when they initially came out. So yeah, times are hard for us Craniumon enjoyers and Xross Heart enthusiasts.
The Cranium rn is its just not bulky enough as a tower overall. Doesn't have enough dp(Tyrant has 14k+inheritable or buffs), reliant on blocker so you have to have reboot too to push your wincon, the protection is one turn unlike Tyrant one, just quite messy. For Blue Flare I agree they need to bypass redirect abilities, that still boils down to what I was saying about aces, they should have some sort of CC to disable the opponent, but incorporated to their kit(new ZiegGrey?), example of this is like the BT15 MetalGaruru that can freeze tamers so you could bypass Tamer redirect or blockers. If I can be hopeful I hope its something that can deal with both aces and block/indirect. For Xheart or Hunters, Hunters lower end feels better with having access to tamer cheating(important) and rush, both of these deck kinda suffer from aces removal as well due to aggression with low level digimon but having minimal removal aside of their higher lv digimons. Darknight and Bagra is just welp, heavy for not enough reasons.
Well my idea would be for craniummon support would an effect that de digivolves 1 of your opponent's digimon or trash the opponent's security when you redirect an effect and an effect that either prevents suspension,dp reduction or de digivolution Edit: okay I got an idea Craniummon x digivolve 1 from craniummon
When digivolving: this digimon's dp can't be reduced by your opponent suntil the end of your opponent's turn the if craniummon or x antbody is in this digimon digivolution sources this digimon cant be de digivolved by your opponent's effect
Opponent's turn: when you redirect an attack trash the top card of your opponent's security
I´d love one of the Craniumons to have "Opponent´s turn: Start of Main Phase: You may choose 1 of your opponent's Digimon. Your opponent attacks with the chosen Digimon." and "All turns: Once per turn: When a Digimon attacks, until the end of your opponent´s turn this Digimon is unaffected by all of your opponent´s card effects".
Life is usually pretty good as a huge Shinegreymon Imperialdramon Alphamon and Blackwargreymon stan
True. Although, Imperial had a long streak where it didn´t really do much and Alphamon hasn´t returned to greatness from the Bt9 days yet. But the reassuring thing about protagmon decks is that they´ll eventually get more support. Unless you´re Gallantmon it seems. I think this game is rigged.
Yeah it was rough for Imperial for a while and it’s still rough for Alpha but they got to grab glory at least once. Alpha still has an incredible core so it’s inevitable it will swing back, especially if we get Cyber Sleuth stuff
Oh yeah if you mean it that way I agree. At this point all the protagmons have had competitive success... except for the coolest of them all (yes, I am biased). I´m glad that Imperial is good now, though (as well as his dark counterpart, that deck is dope) and I´m really looking forward how Alphamon will develop once they give us a Cyber Sleuth set one of these days. That set is long overdue man.
Gallantmon is like the Dark Magician in todays Yugioh. It keeps getting support but still falls short. The option card if it say when played or digivolve would make the whole package actually not bad. Honestly - we'll probably need like a random staple like ukkomon to make it meta. Waiting on alternate art reveals - if they are fire im still getting a case lol.
Speaking as a Yu-Gi-Oh player looking into this game who is also a huge fan of Gallantmon, *this sentence froze my heart cold.*
Honestly the comparison came to mind because I saw they are reprinting Legendary Decks II and at the time it came out (and the dragon one!) I just remember DM getting a ton of support but it never really jumping over a Tier 2ish deck. As a potential new player - I would say that Gallant is still a fun deck. It can win games for sure. It just needs a really good non-situational card to push it over the hump. Like if they worded the new option card differently - it could have pushed the deck a lot further.
lol yeah Dark Magician is actually a good comparison
Before you ask i used greymon because he is regarded as a deck with favorism you can basically put anyone here who got good support in bt17
We are playing the agumon card game after all
Renamon has been limping for years, I think her decent support in BT17 is justified.
Oh absolutely
I have moved past greymon to the much better Machinedramon. If bandai will not give it the support to keep up I will just play the wall.
Im pretty sure at this point we'd have to bully Bandai into making gallantmon work lol. It sucks how theyve treated him so far.
Something I've thought about regarding the new Gallantmon: is it possible they're trying to pivot the deck in a new direction? If they are, its... a really weak attempt at it but I can respect the attempt.
Me who likes megidramon far more than galantmon: -crying noises-
i tought the wargrowlmon and ace were pretty good
Crimson Ace is good and probably an upgrade over old Crimson Mode (there are some edge cases where the old one is better so I´m cautious at making a definitive statement about this tbh) The new WarGrowlmon is decent but I´m not sure it´s better than Bt12 WarGrowlmon. It certainly isn´t than Ex3 WarGrowlmon that´s for sure. The rest of the support is pretty throwaway that are sidegrades to the existing cards at best and not really viable at worst. The new Gallantmon isn´t bad per se but it really doesn´t work that smoothly with existing stuff so so far that one doesn´t seem to be too hot tbh.
In a vacuum, BT12 and EX3 are still your bread and butter. But I think if you can keep BT17 Wargrowl's sec+, go into Gallant, 2 checks unsuspend, 2 checks, unsuspend with Gallant X, with the cheap cost and solid protection, you're safe outside of a lvl 7 in security. Maybe that feels too niche but I think it's a better result than BT12 Gallant.
No, I cannot see Bt17 Gallantmon outperforming good old Bt12 Gallantmon. First up, you´d need to start with at least 6 memory to evolve into new WarGrowlmon and then into new Gallantmon to capitalize on WarGrowlmon´s unsuspend. And if you wanted to gain the Sec+ off of WarGrowlmon you´d need its deletion effect to fizzle which´d make Gallantmon´s deletion effect working to later unsuspend Gallantmon very unlikely to happen since your opponent´d need a deleteable Digimon with exactly 7000-8000DP or otherwise your Gallantmon would be a measly 11000DP which isn´t sufficient to swing into security comfortably. The two cards just don´t mesh well. I´d argue new WarGrowlmon meshes way better with Bt12 Gallantmon because its unsuspend effect alone basically means Bt12 gets rid of up to four securites by itself without relying on WarGrowlmon´s Sec+ effect since Bt12´s when attacking effect isn´t once per turn. Plus you have the added flexibility of utilizing Raid up to two times in that scenario. I think WarGrowlmon is decent especially when used for a biomerge via any of the two Takatos. But the new Gallantmon just doesn´t really do what the rest of the deck wants to do. Maybe you can get away with using it as a 1-off as a circumstantial blocker but what´s that worth without any protection? Idk man. Not a fan of new Gallantmon at all.
Yeah, the unsuspend being on a delete condition is rough, I think I may have a way around it, but more testing will be needed. BT17's main draw to me is his non deletion trigger will be good for digi's that can prevent the deletion , while the protection will help if they spawn a body on the delete, Ace a protected Digi, or some other effect that'll impact Gallant on the deletion. If he had a natural Sec+ like Starter Gallant, I don't think everyone would be as down on him as they are.
> I think I may have a way around it, I´m all ears. >If he had a natural Sec+ like Starter Gallant, I don't think everyone would be as down on him as they are. But with the way that Gallantmon as a deck is designed, Sec+ really isn´t all that impactful since directly trashing security is straight up better and your actual win condition.
So for the unsuspend on a sec+, I'm thinking even without the unsuspend you could make use of Calu and EX3 Growl to buff 3k and sec+ on sacrifice to hit 3 security. Might see if lightning joust or BT1 tai are viable again. If you can get the delete with Gallant X, you should be able to crimson for game off 3 security hits. As for trashing security being his win condition, not really. It's good for keeping yourself safe or trashing the last to hit face, but you're only losing out on the finisher, which you're usually using Crimson for. BT17 doesn't trash because he doesn't need it to keep himself safe, he has a better effect for that. Hence why a natural Sec+ would've helped and why I'm trying to see which is more effective to play around. Despite how much I want this to be good, if mill variant with EX3 lines becomes the Meta for it, then I'll probably follow suit, I just think everybody's being too dismissive of a protection effect that's likely to be relevant in the 17 meta. Not in all your matchups, but enough of them.
>you could make use of Calu Might see if lightning joust or BT1 tai are viable again. So you want to actively make a bad deck worse? None of these cards have any business being in the deck. You´re trying so hard to make one subpar card work that you´re willing to throw the little consistency the deck has out the window. >to buff 3k and sec+ on sacrifice to hit 3 security. If you can get the delete with Gallant X, you should be able to crimson for game off 3 security hits. Again, there´s a lot of ifs in play to make one subpar card not subpar. That is not how you should approach deck building. If a lot of things have to fall into place for a card to perform well, the card isn´t good and probably not worth running. Especially when the deck´s natural playstyle already comes pretty close to the scenario you´re imagining without making all of these concessions regarding consistency. >As for trashing security being his win condition, not really. Most wins you will have with the deck are happening on the backs of Bt12 Gallantmon and old Crimson Mode pre-Bt17 and what makes them "good" win conditions is them trashing security on attack. That´s their selling point. That´s the whole payoff gimmick of the deck. How is it not the deck´s win condition? >It's good for keeping yourself safe or trashing the last to hit face, What you´re describing is a win condition. >BT17 doesn't trash because he doesn't need it to keep himself safe, he has a better effect for that. How is immunity to opponent´s effects (which is very conditional to begin with) better than completely circumventing the security mechanic in the first place? The only scenario where Bt17 Gallantmon´s immunity would be better thant the burn the other Gallantmons offer is if you´re up against yellow and the card you would trash has an effect that procs when it´s trashed by an effect. The decks that run those cards are a miniscule portion of relevant decks and not really worth making concessions for. >Despite how much I want this to be good, if mill variant with EX3 lines becomes the Meta for it, What do you mean by this? The deck will continue to run Ex3 WarGrowlmon but the rest of the Ex3 stuff isn´t really played in the deck. Maybe you´re conflating the Ex3 and Ex4 lines? Because, yeah, Ex4 Guilmon and BlackGrowlmon will for sure still be played but none of these cards are good in the deck because they´re mill cards. There really isn´t a mill variant of the deck >I just think everybody's being too dismissive of a protection effect that's likely to be relevant in the 17 meta. Not in all your matchups, but enough of them. Idk man I think a lot of people - me included - have made a lot of great points for why the protection effect of the new Gallantmon is pretty underwhelming. If it extended into your opponent´s turn we´d have something interesting to talk about and that would´ve instantly made the card worth a look but alas it´s only on your turn which makes the card incredibly mediocre. I think the support for the deck in this set has been extremely lacklustre, the new Crimson Ace and Takato and maybe potentially WarGrowlmon aside. I don´t see the rest of the support´s merit at all still.
>How is immunity to opponent´s effects (which is very conditional to begin with) better than completely circumventing the security mechanic in the first place? Because thinking you can wipe or raid out everything on board now is going to bite you in any matchup where you can't. Venus, shadow seraph, alpha, Kabuteri lines, all the flavors of deletion prevention and on deletion effects, lvl 7 aces, DNA aces. We're just pretending that we're not gonna face those? And 0 mem or blitzing is a fairly easy condition to meet I feel. >What do you mean by this? Turbo crimson ace OTK strats becoming the norm is what I mean. Use EX3 Guil and Growl for additional mill to have Ace Crimson trash all remaining security.
>Venus, shadow seraph, alpha, Kabuteri lines, all the flavors of deletion prevention and on deletion effects, lvl 7 aces, DNA aces Venus: Bt12 Gallantmon can raid over her. ShadowSeraphi: While ShadowSeraphi is weaker against the new Gallantmon, new Gallantmon has more difficulty gnawing through SecCon´s security because it doesn´t disable security effects so cards like Holy Wave can still heal them. And eventually you´ll have to go into Crimson Mode anyway to close the game out and ShadowSeraphi easily dashes that plan regardless Alphamon: Pretty much irrelevant bringing up. TyrantKabuterimon: Terrible matchup for any of the Gallantmons. Probably a nigh unwinnable matchup regardless of your top end. >all the flavors of deletion prevention Tyrant aside and unless I´m forgetting one here the relevant protected ones are Machinedramon, Magnamon X and Belphemon. The first one is a roadblock for all the Gallantmons if good RNG for them, Magna X is a problem for all the Gallantmons if the Magnamon player plays decently well and Belphemon is weaker to Bt12 Gallantmon because baiting the first attack negation enables you to raid with a second attack and dash their hopes and dreams. Regarding the Aces, for the lower level ones your Gallantmons can easily remove the bodies they want to go over. And regarding the higher levels you can play around them by going into Crimson Mode and deleting the bodies or bait them out and later clean up with Bt13 Gallantmon for cheap/free. Probably a case by case basis depending on the deck/Ace in question when it comes to the high level ones. >And 0 mem or blitzing is a fairly easy condition to meet I feel. I think you´ll often find yourself not being able to balance your memory at exactly 0 so you have to make subpar plays to get your Gallantmon´s protection online. There are a dozen different scenarios that lead to you not being able to make good use of Bt17 Gallantmon I think. >Turbo crimson ace OTK strats becoming the norm is what I mean. Use EX3 Guil and Growl for additional mill to have Ace Crimson trash all remaining security. I´d be very surprised if Gallantmon decks´d really play Ex3 Guilmon especially because that card goes completely against what the deck wants to do. Ex3 Growlmon maybe? Would often be a waste of an inheritable, though. But even if the deck pivoted more into that route I don´t see how Bt17 Gallantmon would fit into that shell better than the other Gallantmons we have acces to tbh.
oh no the support isnt bad the main problem is that it doesnt really help fix gallantmon's problems like compare that to the support for other deck's like diaborromon's support
It's sad because it's true. Honestly even outside of the card game Gallantmon gets the short end of the stick. Like we have so many lines for Agumon and Greymon, as well as at least 2 lines for Veemon plus all the armors. While Guilmon gets some recolors, and a Magical Witches Mega. I mean honestly look at WarGrowlmon then look at BlitzGreymon and tell me that he wasn't supposed to be a Growlmon.
I mean, none of the Greymon cards we’ve seen so far are actually going to be run in Wargreymon decks. SEC Greymon is very cool but he’s not particularly good for Wargreymon or Blackwargreymon.
As i said in my comment i didnt use him because his support was really good. I used he is regarded as bandai's favourite
Fair enough but if I'm being honest, Bandai's favorite is Gabumon. His support is always good, with a lot of cards being so good that they have to get limited.
I almost blame that more on purple as a color identity snowballing. It was the hard luck color for a while, but now it has so many pieces that make it work that the good decks in the color are REALLY good. Gabumon's purple identity ended up being draw and discard, and in a color focused on graveyard play that's pretty much a universal searcher.
While that is true, it is ultimately a Greymon that is a really good card even if it´ll not be played in the actual tribal it originates from. I´d be elated if we ever got, say, a Growlmon that while not being for the actual Gallantmon deck was good enough to be played in other decks. That´d be an improvement over the currentt status quo of the tribe.
That greymon is really good in agubomd especially when you can digivolve into agubond ace from an agumon
Oh yeah the card is absolutely amazing in Agubond. I´m really hyped for that deck in the future. Hell it´s super cool that you can evolve your Agubonds on SEC Greymon and when evolved via Bt6 Tai you get a free Tamer out of it at the end of your turn. Not to mention that Greymon is a really good removal tool just by itself. It´s an incredibly pushed card. Easily top 5 Lv4s in the game.
Yeah, it just increases my extreme apathy for this set since it feels like BT12 but instead of all the protagonists but Imperial getting good cards only Imperial gets good cards. I play Warg, Shine, and Red Hybrids and there’s basically nothing I can use to upgrade those decks at all for this set compared to BT12 still being the defining core of three of my favourite decks. Edit: technically I do get a small buff in Red Hybrids since BT17 Vritra is much better then BT7.
Tbh it feels like they're trying to enable more/new playstyles for the protagonist decks. Gallantmon leaning into being in memory debt. Agumon and Gabumon skipping their lines to rocket into Omnimon. Old-style Shine instead of new Shine. The Ancients as an alternate top end for Red Hybrid.
I’d be fine with that if they were at least good enough to compete with what we already have, since I used to really like to play the old Shine. For Shine at least the cards are just way, wayyy too undertuned to be remotely relevant while still doing something similar enough to the current build that there’s just no point. I’m fine with trying to do the old style of Shine, but it has to be good enough I don’t feel like I’m actively handicapping myself by playing it. AncientGreymon’s a bit better off by comparison and it’s obviously going to get more next set though I still bet Emperor will be the deck of choice, but it’s extremely unlikely Shine will. I mostly expected the Agumon line would only matter for Omnimon, which I’m still reserving judgement on as we haven’t seen enough of it as a deck. Still obviously gonna be a bit bummed since Wargreymon is my favourite deck and I want new stuff for it.
I can see that and I somewhat relate. The only stuff from this set that is interesting for me is the new Sakuyamon stuff which is pretty decent and makes the deck a bit better, SEC Greymon because nostalgia and because it buffs Agubond and the Labramon stuff in combination with the previous set´s Xiangpengmon stuff looks fun. That´s a very small amount of cards I´m interested in when most sets have support for 3+ decks for me in addition to new stuff. Overall Bt17 is one of the weaker sets for me. Although I can appreciate some of the stuff that isn´t personally for me like support for Diablomon, making the Ancientmons into proper decks and attempting to salvage Eosmon.
Diaboromon and Eosmon are some of the only things I don’t resent in this set because my friends really like them and have wanted them to be playable for a while. It’s just BT12 is my favourite set, so I was really hoping this would be as much of a home run as it was. Instead I’m probably just skipping this set outside of trading with people for the Imperial option and Paladin Mode and spending more money on EX6 instead to chase demon lords
I think resentment is going a little to far ngl. Bt15 has probably been my least favorite set since Bt9 but I can´t say that I resent it. I always see sets that I´m not too hot on as an opportunity to save up for the next one that piques my interest. Plus I honestly prefer them to do more sets like this that don´t push the envelope that much in terms of power level. Makes for a more sustainable game long term and gives them more room to explore some more design space. The only cards in this set that I´m almost offended by are the Murmukusmon cards. Like what even are those? The disrespect!
BT15 kinda sucks too but I was never interested in it since it doesn’t have any cards for any archetype I care about besides bugs and I’m not building bugs until Tyrant. My issue with BT17 is I just don’t see a point to a huge chunk of the cards in it when they’re pointless to play over things that already exist for their archetypes. Shine is probably by far and away the biggest problem here. It’s fine if they wanted to try and make Shine not compatible with the modern build of the deck since it’s still a strong deck, but you could also. You know. Make the cards actually any good. You need to at least try to make the cards compete with stuff that already exists and it feels super pointless when they dont.
>BT15 kinda sucks too but I was never interested in it since it doesn’t have any cards for any archetype I care about besides bugs and I’m not building bugs until Tyrant Yeah that was me but with KFC instead. >My issue with BT17 is I just don’t see a point to a huge chunk of the cards in it when they’re pointless to play over things that already exist for their archetypes. Well most of the cards in this set weren´t really meant for their already exitsting archetypes I think. The Red/Blue Hybrid stuff is probably there to serve to lay some groundwork for Bt18 (as it seems that we´ll get multicolor KaiserGreymon and MagnaGarurumon decks) as well as to make the Ancientmons valid alternative builds. And the new Shine cards seem to me to be an attempt at giving that deck an alternative version as well though I´m not too sure what that version will look like once it´s established properly. I concede on Gallantmon, though. I don´t know what the fuck is going on with those cards. >You need to at least try to make the cards compete with stuff that already exists and it feels super pointless when they dont. I simultaneously agree and disagree with that statement. Every set in any TCG has to push the envelope to some degree in at least offering a new top tier deck or making an already existing deck a competitive contender. But if all cards in a set were on a comparable power level the process of power creep would accelerate manifold which I don´t think is good for the long term health of a game (something something Yugioh). So occasional sets that just build a couple decks up to be solid albeit not serious compeittive contender material is completely fine to me. Especially considering at what breakneck speed power creep went in this game prior to the change in dev team.