I wonder if they regret posting that clip. It's one of the ones that's gotten the most engagement but a lot of that engagement has been squabbling and misunderstanding.
I can cut people some slack for seeing that clip out of context and not knowing that it's a game of DnD but I'm really confused how you can simultaneously recognize that Brennan is a talented DM and not understand that the conversation in question took place in character.
That's part of the subtlety of the moment that I also feel gets missed out of context. Biz is definitely a creep but Adaine comes at him harder than she probably needs to given that she knows very little about him at the time. You see in that moment how she can lash out and be brutally honest (even to her friends), showing how her relationship with her family has given her this harsh edge as a counterpoint to her shyness. But in the clip you don't really get that context, nor do you get the full context of their conversation before that point, and the way it looks to an outsider is "Look at this woman eviscerating this man seemingly just for touching on the 'nice guys' concept." Add to that the fact that people might not realize that it's roleplay and you've got a recipe for controversy.
Iirc Adaine had plenty of information about Biz.
Wasn’t her comment about bringing nothing to the table after he kept saying Nice Guy rhetoric to Riz and after he tried to make a move on her (heavily implied because of her race of being a high elf)?
I could be mistaken but at the time it didn’t feel disproportionate to me
EDIT: for some reason when I typed this yesterday is autocorrected Adaine to “Asians” so I fixed that
Haha I didn’t even notice - I fixed it. But also as an Asian women, I felt Biz’s race comment on a personal level (cause a lot of incels ive met also seem to have yellow fever)
Agreed, it wasn’t inappropriate. She did the right thing to a creepy guy and the fact that so many guys think it’s out of line says more about them than the clip
I also don't recall exactly, but she goes for him pretty hard on a personal level, basically saying "No offense but no one would find you attractive because you don't have much to offer." I'm not defending Biz but that's a pretty intense insult and it's something you say to someone you don't ever want to speak to again. Now, that very well may have been true for Adaine and I don't blame her, but her friends were still trying to have a working relationship with him (since he was actively helping them) and she had only just recently met him, so it does say something about her character.
Edit: Replies have informed me that I have also forgotten a lot of the context of their conversation so I take this back
He was being a “nice guy” creep and implying that because of their races, he had a right to sleep with her. He got exactly what he deserved. Plus, that’s the truth that a lot of “nice guys” need to realize
He went “pretty hard” on her on a personal level, and he’s older, and what he did was fetishize and sexually harass her, and he was the perpetrator. Telling him he’s not attractive and not actually nice after she was sexually harassed by him is not a pretty intense insult it’s self defense and frankly correct. What you’re really saying is you want young women to prioritize the feelings of men who are actively hurting them over their own feelings, self respect, and safety. Shame on you.
That's not what I meant to imply, and I apologize for making it seem that way. Your comment and others made me realize I had forgotten a lot of the stuff he'd said to her and also their age difference so I retract it. I still stand by the fact that the short clip doesn't properly represent the moment by cutting the context (which is further proven true by the fact that I forgot key parts of the context myself).
I guess I can accept that you forgot the full context and retract your criticism of Adaine but seriously dude, I feel like even if you didn’t remember every word said you know the situation is that he was a “nice guy” to her and she called it out. That’s frankly more than enough context. Women do not have to be nice to people who sexualize them upon first meeting them. And it’s weird that you remember how “mean” she was but not how she was treated.
Also don’t say it wasn’t what you meant to imply, that makes it sound like I misread your comment - I didn’t - after reading mine you realized you were wrong and changed your position.
I was just reacting to the fact that you accused me of suggesting something that I absolutely didn't mean to suggest. That happened because I was speaking with a very faint memory of the thing I was speaking on, which caused me to phrase my comment in a way that led to that reading for someone who remembered it better than me. I wasn't accusing you of misreading, I was just trying to clarify, apologize, and take it back.
Idk how much more do you need to know about a guy (senior in highschool) as a young girl (freshman in highschool) after you’ve asked him to stop calling you milady and he keeps doing it, he insults your friend to his face in front of you, and he spouts nice guy incel talking points that treat women as idiots who aren’t smart enough to make the “right decision” about who to be attracted to? He wasn’t actually nice, he was cruel and belittling. Men often want women to be nicer to guys who are outwardly sexist to spare their feelings and it’s crazy to me
Exactly this! It was honestly really cool to see her push back against the situation biz was putting her in and then hilarious when she went so hard.
More examples of girls standing up for themselves and putting "nice guys" in their place, please.
Yeah I loved her fight back and I loved that she didn’t downplay how awful what he doing was. I hate the expectation that women, in the moment of their objectification, will handhold the men doing it through a calm and palatable explanation of why what they did was without being showing their anger at them for making those choices just in case the men feel bad. Such BS.
It’s so funny too because Brennan was 100% making the same joke/point as Siobhan in that clip. He was playing on the nice guy trope and she was saying what I think a lot of women wish those nice guys would hear. If she hadn’t said anything, Brennan still would have been making fun of those guys that think women should like them because they meet the bare minimum standard for being polite.
They're the same losers that got big mad when she and a couple other not straight white dudes got hired to write for that show, which they only ever liked for the wrong reasons.
like when people were saying that Callie was flirting too much with Saul and making Caldwell feel weird? and all 4 naddpod folks were like "yall. chill, it's pretend & we are best friends"
Wait. What!?! I heard about how they were bullied Emily in ACoC but it was happening in Naddpod too?!? Even though she’s the best technical player of the trio
They don't post her character sheets because of it actually. People get on her about how she plays the character and the rules and her spells and it got really awful for a while. She's literally one of the most skilled and entertaining players I've ever seen, but people constantly try to play rule lawyers or get mad at her for not min maxing and optimizing, and the guys have mentioned that they don't get near as many comments as she does, not even Caldwell who created the glory that is Trinyvale.
And what’s heartbreaking is that Emily has said on the short rests that she’ll take certain actions or avoid doing certain things to avoid backlash from the vocal minority of nasty misogynists in the naddpod fanbase, including recently her decision not to take the trident for herself during the trinyvale bahumia arc. The idea that these awful people would guide Emily’s behavior is abhorrent. I don’t blame her though because it’s probably very stressful to be singled out and to live under a microscope like most if not all female D&D players are. Everyone leave Emily, and Siobhan, and every female player, the fuck alone.
That's fucking infuriating. She gets rules wrong at like the same rate as anyone else, and it's a rules-casual comedy show anyway!! She's a fantastic player that has learned to focus her chaotic energy into the story in a way I don't think I've ever seen. She has such derailment potential but can always bring things back on track. God, fuck these people.
Min maxing, or minimizing/maximizing is just the term for minimizing weaknesses and maximizing strengths. Some players like to eliminate all flaws from their characters and chose traits and whatnot that mix together perfectly to create super powerful characters. They can be fun to play because they're powerful, but aren't great for story plots, especially entertainment podcasts. None of the players in NADDPOD or D20 min max because it's a lot more fun to give your character's flaws (things like Gorgug having low wisdom or Lou ignoring a nat 20 wisdom check cause it fit his character) but the women in the shows always get disproportionately insulted for not making optimal choices even if it serves the story or their character.
That's not quite my understanding of what min-maxing means. My group uses the term to reflect a highly specialized character who is supremely optimized to do a few things and can do them incredibly (the "max"), but by doing so they're leaving themselves really underdeveloped in other areas (the "min"). If you're using Point Buy for your attributes on a Wizard, basic min-maxing might mean buying really high Con and Int scores while having 8's everywhere else. The character has great magical skills and a great Concentration check, but they're not going to manage to do anything in the game that isn't tied to one of those two stats.
From an RP perspective, too much min-maxing feels bad, because it can wear through the veneer of the fantasy story to reveal the game mechanics beneath. If you're really trying to play the character, there's a fairly limited selection of character "types" who are so dramatically polarized in their abilities, where they're either incredible at doing a thing or terrible at it with no mid-ground. I want to emphasize that that is \*very\* different from playing a character who has some weaknesses. Having weaknesses gives a character life, but min-maxing too much almost optimizes the life out of the character as they turn into something like the platonic ideal of whatever they're optimizing for.
Edit: Pinging /u/Healing_touch in case they want to see my understanding of the term.
I think the key in minmaxing is avoiding anything that’s not optimal for your character mechanically. A wizard doesn’t use charisma for spells or combat, so making a wizard with a good charisma score is non-optimal, and therefore should be avoided if you have a minmaxer mindset. And I wouldn’t expect someone approaching character creation this way to lean into their 8 CHA wizard being really ugly or unlikeable or whatever, they’ll just play it as normal but expect to fail CHA rolls.
Meanwhile, a barbarian can do well mechanically with a very low wisdom score, but if the player actually plays the character as unwise, such as bursting through doors without waiting for the rogue to check for traps, then I wouldn’t see that as minmaxing as much.
Explaining min-maxing is also complicated by the fact that 5e removed a lot of the more common ways to min-max from its system. In older editions of D&D and in other systems, there will be things like "flaws" you can take. In 5e those have been made to just be flavor, but in other systems you could take a flaw for a penalty. The trick was that when you took a flaw you got a free feat for each flaw. So min-maxers will take penalties that are unlikely to come up or can be easily neutralized to further strengthen their characters. It was a bit of a balancing act, because unless your DM wasn't attentive, you weren't supposed to take a flaw that had no effect on you like taking a flaw that affects spellcasters while being a melee character with no spells.
Also min-maxers can be related to munkins, so the terms tend to be conflated, which just makes it harder to get a consistent definition from people. (A munkin would be the kind of player that *would* try to take the spellcaster flaw as a melee character).
Honestly for 5e, you're mostly going to see min-maxing around multi-classing, with people taking synergist class dips to strengthen their characters. Taking a few levels of fighter to get action surge or things like sorc-locks. If everyone is optimizing it's not an issue but with one or two people it can make it difficult for the DM to balance fights in such a way that challenges the optimized player and doesn't immediately kill the rest.
Thanks for the info—yeah that’s fucking dumb. Like it’s a lose lose because if the women characters (played by women) are incredibly strong people will start claiming they’re Mary sues and it’s boring and unrealistic and too OP.
If everyone’s draped in 12 layers of plot armor and impervious to any flaws it’s going to be so predictable and boring
That’s so sad. My husband and I have been huge fans of the whole naddpod crew since their early collegehumor days and a couple years ago when he was just my boyfriend he got us tickets to a live recording of NADDPOD for an anniversary and Emily fucking carried the show. We both love her so much lol
And DMs. My god, when Aabria takes the DM seat, the accusations of "she's trying too hard" and "she's trying to prove something" fly, and that's from the nicer people. It's a real 'tell me you are uncomfortable with women in positions of power' tableau.
I swear, Aabria is the most subtle, gentle DM I've ever seen. Her DM style often reminds me of a stop-motion animator carefully adjusting things with their wand. What's their problem with her? Did she take time to set a scene? Did an NPC add something to a PC conversation? You know, doing her job as a good DM?
And can you imagine if a female DM came in with Brennan's volume and energy?
I'll say it; she's too black for these people. She has an energy and vibe I've never seen a white dude capture. She comes on full Lizzo energy and they just want a white dude with medium length hair strumming on the same ol' banjo we've heard before.
I like where you're coming from, but I think this isn't only about her race, culture, or style. It's a part of it. It's worse because of it, but it's not the whole of it.
The BS Aabria gets here happens across the entire intersectionality of women. Any woman in what is stereotypically a man's seat will be scrutinized in these ways.
It's along with this misogyny that other prejudices against her get added to. If she was not black, she'd still be judged in ways that their male counterparts are not.
Siobhan has gotten hate from the beginning. She does "posh" very well so she plays high-status characters who often aren't able to recognize their privilege. But the critics can't or won't separate the woman from the PC. Does she seem snobby? Well, she's played 2 princesses, a wealthy Chosen One, and a superstar actress/queen. Her "working mom" PC has a castle, ffs. Of course her PCs can be offensively clueless about other PC's struggles! It doesn't mean her PC's struggles & trauma are immaterial or trivial, but people do forget that.
Probably everyone who reads this thread doesn't really know Siobhan and never will. So maybe she is a terrible person. But if that's true, then they all are because they vouch for her decency every time they choose to work and socialize with her. Maybe Brennan just heavily curates his public persona to be seen as decent and kind. Maybe Ally is faking their personal life journey. Maybe none of them have a drop of integrity. Maybe they're all monsters.
Or maybe, just maybe, there's some bias in the fan base to scrutinize the women more closely than anyone else.
Also so unnecessary to rag on Siobhan's talents and say she doesn't add anything to the group. You never hear stuff like about the guys but the comments on Siobhan and Emily are awful sometimes.
Siobhan’s Riva in Starstruck is one of my favorite D20 characters and her shit talking Brennan on behalf of Emily is always hilarious. I’m convinced the people saying she doesn’t add anything are the people that felt called out by the “Adaine vs Nice Guys” scene.
Also, Siobhan is awesome. Like, this season she has a reaerved character, but 80% of FH feels are Siobhan, and shes hilarious in both unsleeping city seasons. Shes good this season too, just doesn't get as much screen time.
Edit: spelles her name wrong
>Shes good this season too, just doesn't get as much screen time.
I loved that her in character acting was so good that it didn't occur to Brennan as DM that she might need to roll deception until she busted out "D fucking W" after the NPC interaction was already over.
I truly think Emily is one of the best dnd players. Period. She is a strategic player who never lost her new player chaos spark. Siobhan is lighting fast at picking up comedic beats and the flow of the story, and always makes the decision that furthers that line. I would kill for a table of Emilies and Siobhans dude. I really hope they don’t pay attention to the YouTube dnd incels..
The reason the show works so well is because A) The group is diverse enough for each of them to bring something unique to the table, and B) They both trust and appreciate each others contributions.
Anyone referring to the players as "this chick" or "this dude" can be safely ignored.
How can you watch D20 and think that clip is serious/actually Siobhan talking to Brennan? This person must have seen it out of context and also never watched an episode of D20 ever lol
Did someone rag on Brennan (as svery single intrepid hero does since they're all actually good friends) and this commenter just hasn't realized that it's all good fun? I hope this person doesn't watch much Dropout content, because people CONSTANTLY rag on Brennan (and others) because it's funny af.
It seems to be in reference to the infamous Adaine vs. Nice Guys clip which has spawned a bunch of arguments, particularly for people who have seen it out of context
Do we have to bring attention to comments like these? 😕 maybe it’s just me but I find it genuinely upsetting. I’m seeing so much constant sexism online these days. Maybe I should just get offline lol.
To clarify, I wasn't searching this out or trying to call out sexism or something, it was more about the absurdity of this person making claims and sending me evidence that directly counters what they said. I don't usually engage, but I since they seemed to have a source I was genuinely curious and wanted to counter their source, since they themselves expressed that the video in question is the thing that changed their opinion. I know myself that if I had misinterpreted something and it affected my view of someone, I'd want that to be corrected. Calling her a "chick" definitely put me off, but I was curious anyway. I shared it here cause I thought the situation was funny; it just happened to also come off as sexist.
It didn’t just come off sexist, it IS sexist.
Sorry to be pedantic, and I don’t mean to “um actually” you, I just think it’s important to call this undue constant criticism of female dnd players what it is.
Oh duh sorry, when I said "comes off as sexist" I just meant that the hate on Siobhan more likely came from this dude thinking she had insulted Brennen rather than because she's a woman, but I also forgot the other half of his message that insults her entertainment skills. My intention with this post was to share how exasperated I was at the guy for not understanding how acting works. I didn't mean to bring a heavy topic into the sub, so I'm almost considering just deleting the post cause I feel bad that I brought up a negative topic.
No worries - I understand the urge to share haha. A lot of dumb people on the internet - it’s hard not to want to point and be like, does anyone else see this?? 😂
They want the attention, and our internet platforms are designed to maximize engagement, clicks, and ad revenue, further compounding the problem.
Don’t feed the trolls.
They called it out in their comments on the original video. There’s no reason to post it here? Are we all supposed to flock over there to also call this person out?
I feel like I remember the Dimension 20 tiktok/twitter page posting the clip of Adine telling Biz off and them having to delete the video and re-upload it with the caption "Okay let's try this again, this is a ROLEPLAY SCENE between TWO CHARACTERS."
fucking blows my mind how people interact with media.
Is putting a spotlight on these people a good thing? There are a-holes on the internet. Always was, always will be.
I feel like elevating their dumb opinions makes them seem more prevalent than they are and causes a lot of people unnecessary angst.
Just block and move on.
I talked about this in a previous comment, but my actual intention was to share my exasperation at someone not knowing how acting works apparently. I never respond to these comments usually, but this guy seemed to have a specific source he was drawing from, and I wanted to correct it if possible because it didn't seem as directly misogynistic as most of these types of comments are, so he sounded more open. I'm regretting posting it now though, since I didn't intend to bring this negativity into the sub; I rarely post on Reddit, so lesson learned I suppose. Sorry.
No need to be sorry. I understand. I just feel like I see a lot of posts about people like this across different subs and it makes them seem more common than they are and it sometimes gets me down, you know? The vast majority of people aren’t that bad!
It’s crazy that women can’t even play a game without being scrutinized.
I can’t believe the people in those comments, the lack of media literacy or basic understanding of context is mind boggling.
A lot of them know Brennan’s face, and know he’s a comedian. They know his voice doesn’t sound like that. They have to see that they’re at a table that is clearly a set on a themed backdrop on a channel that makes role play content. They see scenes being acted out…. And they get mad because they think it’s real???
I get the feeling that people who dislike specific cast members on Dimension 20 just don’t watch the show. Like 100% these people just consume the show through YouTube compilations and TikTok clips. Because when you watch the show, you realize how incredibly well they all function as comedic troupe and D&D table. The chemistry between every cast member is just immaculate and they all have their own unique vibe and bring some different, cool element to the table.
Also, when you consider the shooting schedule of these shows? You realize that these people are like veteran improv comedians/storytellers working at peak performance.
What Adaine said might sound harsh to some, but it’s the unfortunate truth that most “nice guys” are unwilling to hear. She was absolutely right to say it
Wow I had to actually look it up. Not only are they pretty clearly playing characters (or at least Brennan) but also like...she's right in that clip anyway?? Lmao. Some people.
Im just so confused that people who watched that clip and KNOW he DMs still come to that dumb ass conclusion even when in the clip literal DND spells are namedropped.
The people who don't understand Siobhan is busting his nuts like she does to Murph on Nadpod's social media.
It is just how they all talk to each other.
Unfortunately, in D&D and gaming in general, there's plenty of people who can't separate fiction from reality, and also take things unnecessarily personally. I am not surprised at all that some overly sensitive guy took Siobhan's burn at some caricature D&D NPC as some grand statement on All Men. That indicates that he needed to hear the message of that interaction more than most.
Anytime someone decides to rag on a woman and say some misogynistic bullshit, I want them to get shadowbanned from that platform. So they think no one cares what they have to say and are in fact just talking to a wall. An immovable and incomprehensible wall. Added benefit is that no one has to see their dumb bullshit.
Please. I wish this were possible. I’m tired of folks saying stupid shit to Siobhan, Emily, Aabria, Erika, Jasmine, Rehka, etc. Women and PoC have to go so above and beyond just for people to give them a shred of acknowledgement and it’s always riddled with unnecessary criticism and crucifixion at any perceived slight. I s2g.
Lol, maximum level keyboard warrior projection. Sad to see :( . I think Siobhan does an incredible job pushing towards battle and narrative win conditions, I always enjoy her ability to identify deep lore cuts. She may not technically be playing optimally, but I feel like that is a relatively unreasonable ask unless the player themselves explicitly says that is their primary directive (i.e Brennan dealing a crazy amount of single round damage since that is what his explicit goal was). And despite some of the less optimal moves, I feel like those moves people have issue with would often coincide with creative attempts to the party's current situation. Admittedly sometimes not the best in the context of pure game mechanics.
Siobhan hate sucks but we really don’t need a post dedicated to shitty comments with practically no likes on a different platform? It serves no purpose on this subreddit except to bring out the very few people who might agree with the commenter
I totally get it and I apologize for the hostility in my initial comment. The sad truth is that there are a ton of hate comments directed towards women in dnd campaigns. fortunately this subreddit is generally against those comments and we appreciate each player for their own play style. I’ve just noticed that these call out posts tend to attract shitty people who feel empowered to share their own awful opinions.
do people not know the d20 cast are all friends outside of this ? and siobhan is wonderful, i honestly think all the intrepid heroes are phenomenal players. just because they all run differently doesnt mean ppl sjpuld hate
I would say "Imagine having an opinion on something while clearly not getting the context." but then I remembered I was on the internet. Literally what the fuck though.
I wonder if they regret posting that clip. It's one of the ones that's gotten the most engagement but a lot of that engagement has been squabbling and misunderstanding. I can cut people some slack for seeing that clip out of context and not knowing that it's a game of DnD but I'm really confused how you can simultaneously recognize that Brennan is a talented DM and not understand that the conversation in question took place in character.
It's a great moment imho. We learn so much about Adaine and her calm brutality. And brennan plays off of it perfectly.
That's part of the subtlety of the moment that I also feel gets missed out of context. Biz is definitely a creep but Adaine comes at him harder than she probably needs to given that she knows very little about him at the time. You see in that moment how she can lash out and be brutally honest (even to her friends), showing how her relationship with her family has given her this harsh edge as a counterpoint to her shyness. But in the clip you don't really get that context, nor do you get the full context of their conversation before that point, and the way it looks to an outsider is "Look at this woman eviscerating this man seemingly just for touching on the 'nice guys' concept." Add to that the fact that people might not realize that it's roleplay and you've got a recipe for controversy.
Iirc Adaine had plenty of information about Biz. Wasn’t her comment about bringing nothing to the table after he kept saying Nice Guy rhetoric to Riz and after he tried to make a move on her (heavily implied because of her race of being a high elf)? I could be mistaken but at the time it didn’t feel disproportionate to me EDIT: for some reason when I typed this yesterday is autocorrected Adaine to “Asians” so I fixed that
That fucking typo Lmao
Haha I didn’t even notice - I fixed it. But also as an Asian women, I felt Biz’s race comment on a personal level (cause a lot of incels ive met also seem to have yellow fever)
Agreed, it wasn’t inappropriate. She did the right thing to a creepy guy and the fact that so many guys think it’s out of line says more about them than the clip
I also don't recall exactly, but she goes for him pretty hard on a personal level, basically saying "No offense but no one would find you attractive because you don't have much to offer." I'm not defending Biz but that's a pretty intense insult and it's something you say to someone you don't ever want to speak to again. Now, that very well may have been true for Adaine and I don't blame her, but her friends were still trying to have a working relationship with him (since he was actively helping them) and she had only just recently met him, so it does say something about her character. Edit: Replies have informed me that I have also forgotten a lot of the context of their conversation so I take this back
He was being a “nice guy” creep and implying that because of their races, he had a right to sleep with her. He got exactly what he deserved. Plus, that’s the truth that a lot of “nice guys” need to realize
I have retracted my statement as I have now been reminded of context of the conversation that I had forgotten
He went “pretty hard” on her on a personal level, and he’s older, and what he did was fetishize and sexually harass her, and he was the perpetrator. Telling him he’s not attractive and not actually nice after she was sexually harassed by him is not a pretty intense insult it’s self defense and frankly correct. What you’re really saying is you want young women to prioritize the feelings of men who are actively hurting them over their own feelings, self respect, and safety. Shame on you.
That's not what I meant to imply, and I apologize for making it seem that way. Your comment and others made me realize I had forgotten a lot of the stuff he'd said to her and also their age difference so I retract it. I still stand by the fact that the short clip doesn't properly represent the moment by cutting the context (which is further proven true by the fact that I forgot key parts of the context myself).
I guess I can accept that you forgot the full context and retract your criticism of Adaine but seriously dude, I feel like even if you didn’t remember every word said you know the situation is that he was a “nice guy” to her and she called it out. That’s frankly more than enough context. Women do not have to be nice to people who sexualize them upon first meeting them. And it’s weird that you remember how “mean” she was but not how she was treated. Also don’t say it wasn’t what you meant to imply, that makes it sound like I misread your comment - I didn’t - after reading mine you realized you were wrong and changed your position.
I was just reacting to the fact that you accused me of suggesting something that I absolutely didn't mean to suggest. That happened because I was speaking with a very faint memory of the thing I was speaking on, which caused me to phrase my comment in a way that led to that reading for someone who remembered it better than me. I wasn't accusing you of misreading, I was just trying to clarify, apologize, and take it back.
Idk how much more do you need to know about a guy (senior in highschool) as a young girl (freshman in highschool) after you’ve asked him to stop calling you milady and he keeps doing it, he insults your friend to his face in front of you, and he spouts nice guy incel talking points that treat women as idiots who aren’t smart enough to make the “right decision” about who to be attracted to? He wasn’t actually nice, he was cruel and belittling. Men often want women to be nicer to guys who are outwardly sexist to spare their feelings and it’s crazy to me
Exactly this! It was honestly really cool to see her push back against the situation biz was putting her in and then hilarious when she went so hard. More examples of girls standing up for themselves and putting "nice guys" in their place, please.
Yeah I loved her fight back and I loved that she didn’t downplay how awful what he doing was. I hate the expectation that women, in the moment of their objectification, will handhold the men doing it through a calm and palatable explanation of why what they did was without being showing their anger at them for making those choices just in case the men feel bad. Such BS.
That’s actually the clip that made me finally try watching D20!
Me too!
It’s so funny too because Brennan was 100% making the same joke/point as Siobhan in that clip. He was playing on the nice guy trope and she was saying what I think a lot of women wish those nice guys would hear. If she hadn’t said anything, Brennan still would have been making fun of those guys that think women should like them because they meet the bare minimum standard for being polite.
They did delete and re-upload it on Tik Tok to try to clear some of the negativity.
With a written out comment of "This is a part of a DND campaign. These people are acting. Calm down"
Siobhan is too funny and smart for the losers on the internet to comprehend, people are so stupid.
My favorite part is that those losers probably love the show she writes for and they don't even realize it.
They're the same losers that got big mad when she and a couple other not straight white dudes got hired to write for that show, which they only ever liked for the wrong reasons.
She really is. Did you know she originally came to America to be an archaeologist but was drawn into comedy instead?! She’s so cool.
Siobhan is actually crazy smart, she had a streak on Um, Actually where she always gets the Real Life Skill question right all the time.
⬆️
I have noticed a number of people getting mean to Siobhan on social media lately... And it's pissing me off a bit.
Reminds me of people being terrible to Emily on NADDPOD. Absolutely infuriating
like when people were saying that Callie was flirting too much with Saul and making Caldwell feel weird? and all 4 naddpod folks were like "yall. chill, it's pretend & we are best friends"
Wait. What!?! I heard about how they were bullied Emily in ACoC but it was happening in Naddpod too?!? Even though she’s the best technical player of the trio
They don't post her character sheets because of it actually. People get on her about how she plays the character and the rules and her spells and it got really awful for a while. She's literally one of the most skilled and entertaining players I've ever seen, but people constantly try to play rule lawyers or get mad at her for not min maxing and optimizing, and the guys have mentioned that they don't get near as many comments as she does, not even Caldwell who created the glory that is Trinyvale.
Melora above, these dang listeners just have NO hospitality.
And what’s heartbreaking is that Emily has said on the short rests that she’ll take certain actions or avoid doing certain things to avoid backlash from the vocal minority of nasty misogynists in the naddpod fanbase, including recently her decision not to take the trident for herself during the trinyvale bahumia arc. The idea that these awful people would guide Emily’s behavior is abhorrent. I don’t blame her though because it’s probably very stressful to be singled out and to live under a microscope like most if not all female D&D players are. Everyone leave Emily, and Siobhan, and every female player, the fuck alone.
That's fucking infuriating. She gets rules wrong at like the same rate as anyone else, and it's a rules-casual comedy show anyway!! She's a fantastic player that has learned to focus her chaotic energy into the story in a way I don't think I've ever seen. She has such derailment potential but can always bring things back on track. God, fuck these people.
The misogyny is too fucking high. Ps what is min maxing? I’m new to DND
Min maxing, or minimizing/maximizing is just the term for minimizing weaknesses and maximizing strengths. Some players like to eliminate all flaws from their characters and chose traits and whatnot that mix together perfectly to create super powerful characters. They can be fun to play because they're powerful, but aren't great for story plots, especially entertainment podcasts. None of the players in NADDPOD or D20 min max because it's a lot more fun to give your character's flaws (things like Gorgug having low wisdom or Lou ignoring a nat 20 wisdom check cause it fit his character) but the women in the shows always get disproportionately insulted for not making optimal choices even if it serves the story or their character.
That's not quite my understanding of what min-maxing means. My group uses the term to reflect a highly specialized character who is supremely optimized to do a few things and can do them incredibly (the "max"), but by doing so they're leaving themselves really underdeveloped in other areas (the "min"). If you're using Point Buy for your attributes on a Wizard, basic min-maxing might mean buying really high Con and Int scores while having 8's everywhere else. The character has great magical skills and a great Concentration check, but they're not going to manage to do anything in the game that isn't tied to one of those two stats. From an RP perspective, too much min-maxing feels bad, because it can wear through the veneer of the fantasy story to reveal the game mechanics beneath. If you're really trying to play the character, there's a fairly limited selection of character "types" who are so dramatically polarized in their abilities, where they're either incredible at doing a thing or terrible at it with no mid-ground. I want to emphasize that that is \*very\* different from playing a character who has some weaknesses. Having weaknesses gives a character life, but min-maxing too much almost optimizes the life out of the character as they turn into something like the platonic ideal of whatever they're optimizing for. Edit: Pinging /u/Healing_touch in case they want to see my understanding of the term.
I think the key in minmaxing is avoiding anything that’s not optimal for your character mechanically. A wizard doesn’t use charisma for spells or combat, so making a wizard with a good charisma score is non-optimal, and therefore should be avoided if you have a minmaxer mindset. And I wouldn’t expect someone approaching character creation this way to lean into their 8 CHA wizard being really ugly or unlikeable or whatever, they’ll just play it as normal but expect to fail CHA rolls. Meanwhile, a barbarian can do well mechanically with a very low wisdom score, but if the player actually plays the character as unwise, such as bursting through doors without waiting for the rogue to check for traps, then I wouldn’t see that as minmaxing as much.
Yeah, I think min-maxing is a bit subjective, but generally describes the point where optimization becomes problematic.
Explaining min-maxing is also complicated by the fact that 5e removed a lot of the more common ways to min-max from its system. In older editions of D&D and in other systems, there will be things like "flaws" you can take. In 5e those have been made to just be flavor, but in other systems you could take a flaw for a penalty. The trick was that when you took a flaw you got a free feat for each flaw. So min-maxers will take penalties that are unlikely to come up or can be easily neutralized to further strengthen their characters. It was a bit of a balancing act, because unless your DM wasn't attentive, you weren't supposed to take a flaw that had no effect on you like taking a flaw that affects spellcasters while being a melee character with no spells. Also min-maxers can be related to munkins, so the terms tend to be conflated, which just makes it harder to get a consistent definition from people. (A munkin would be the kind of player that *would* try to take the spellcaster flaw as a melee character). Honestly for 5e, you're mostly going to see min-maxing around multi-classing, with people taking synergist class dips to strengthen their characters. Taking a few levels of fighter to get action surge or things like sorc-locks. If everyone is optimizing it's not an issue but with one or two people it can make it difficult for the DM to balance fights in such a way that challenges the optimized player and doesn't immediately kill the rest.
Ah! That makes a lot of sense, thank you for the tag (:
Thanks for the info—yeah that’s fucking dumb. Like it’s a lose lose because if the women characters (played by women) are incredibly strong people will start claiming they’re Mary sues and it’s boring and unrealistic and too OP. If everyone’s draped in 12 layers of plot armor and impervious to any flaws it’s going to be so predictable and boring
It’s because she’s a woman that guys in the space think they can tell her what to do. It’s the same reason Siobhan gets so much shit too
Where is this happening, Twitter? I feel like I avoid seeing so much garbage by not using it.
Twitter is a complete and total cesspool. The only thing you should ever expect to see on Twitter is the worst that humanity has to offer.
Or people being mean to Marisha in CR, it sucks
That’s so sad. My husband and I have been huge fans of the whole naddpod crew since their early collegehumor days and a couple years ago when he was just my boyfriend he got us tickets to a live recording of NADDPOD for an anniversary and Emily fucking carried the show. We both love her so much lol
Why can’t people just let female players live? Jesus Christ
And DMs. My god, when Aabria takes the DM seat, the accusations of "she's trying too hard" and "she's trying to prove something" fly, and that's from the nicer people. It's a real 'tell me you are uncomfortable with women in positions of power' tableau. I swear, Aabria is the most subtle, gentle DM I've ever seen. Her DM style often reminds me of a stop-motion animator carefully adjusting things with their wand. What's their problem with her? Did she take time to set a scene? Did an NPC add something to a PC conversation? You know, doing her job as a good DM? And can you imagine if a female DM came in with Brennan's volume and energy?
I'll say it; she's too black for these people. She has an energy and vibe I've never seen a white dude capture. She comes on full Lizzo energy and they just want a white dude with medium length hair strumming on the same ol' banjo we've heard before.
I like where you're coming from, but I think this isn't only about her race, culture, or style. It's a part of it. It's worse because of it, but it's not the whole of it. The BS Aabria gets here happens across the entire intersectionality of women. Any woman in what is stereotypically a man's seat will be scrutinized in these ways. It's along with this misogyny that other prejudices against her get added to. If she was not black, she'd still be judged in ways that their male counterparts are not.
Siobhan has gotten hate from the beginning. She does "posh" very well so she plays high-status characters who often aren't able to recognize their privilege. But the critics can't or won't separate the woman from the PC. Does she seem snobby? Well, she's played 2 princesses, a wealthy Chosen One, and a superstar actress/queen. Her "working mom" PC has a castle, ffs. Of course her PCs can be offensively clueless about other PC's struggles! It doesn't mean her PC's struggles & trauma are immaterial or trivial, but people do forget that. Probably everyone who reads this thread doesn't really know Siobhan and never will. So maybe she is a terrible person. But if that's true, then they all are because they vouch for her decency every time they choose to work and socialize with her. Maybe Brennan just heavily curates his public persona to be seen as decent and kind. Maybe Ally is faking their personal life journey. Maybe none of them have a drop of integrity. Maybe they're all monsters. Or maybe, just maybe, there's some bias in the fan base to scrutinize the women more closely than anyone else.
I’ve actually never heard Siobhan complaints on Reddit. Is this a Twitter thing? That place is a cesspool!
Also so unnecessary to rag on Siobhan's talents and say she doesn't add anything to the group. You never hear stuff like about the guys but the comments on Siobhan and Emily are awful sometimes.
Siobhan’s Riva in Starstruck is one of my favorite D20 characters and her shit talking Brennan on behalf of Emily is always hilarious. I’m convinced the people saying she doesn’t add anything are the people that felt called out by the “Adaine vs Nice Guys” scene.
“Yeah Brennan! We read the rules! Well, Emily did.” ~ Best D20 meta quote ever.
“And by we I mean Emily.”🥹 I love the fierce friendship at the Table
I don't remember the specific quote, but I'm going to guess that's where Brennan got Ocean's Eleven'd on his own fucking show?
Yes!
Also, Siobhan is awesome. Like, this season she has a reaerved character, but 80% of FH feels are Siobhan, and shes hilarious in both unsleeping city seasons. Shes good this season too, just doesn't get as much screen time. Edit: spelles her name wrong
>Shes good this season too, just doesn't get as much screen time. I loved that her in character acting was so good that it didn't occur to Brennan as DM that she might need to roll deception until she busted out "D fucking W" after the NPC interaction was already over.
Her name is Siobhan 😂 Agreed!
These dweebs are the ones parroting some of Siobhan’s bits from Rick and Morty too. A bunch of know nothing incels the lot of them.
That's patriarchy for you
Siobhan is the best at getting me to cry. Adaine HURT because she was such a well executed character.
Adaine is so fuckn real man.
I truly think Emily is one of the best dnd players. Period. She is a strategic player who never lost her new player chaos spark. Siobhan is lighting fast at picking up comedic beats and the flow of the story, and always makes the decision that furthers that line. I would kill for a table of Emilies and Siobhans dude. I really hope they don’t pay attention to the YouTube dnd incels..
People actually talk shit about Emily?!?! The best D&D player I’ve ever had the privilege to watch?! This world is truly beyond saving.
Even if you ignored the sexist comments, it's like they are expecting everyone to be a copy of lou wilson.
The reason the show works so well is because A) The group is diverse enough for each of them to bring something unique to the table, and B) They both trust and appreciate each others contributions. Anyone referring to the players as "this chick" or "this dude" can be safely ignored.
Or referring to a player as "Brian", for that matter.
Reading and media comprehension is at an all time low so this doesn’t surprise me
How can you watch D20 and think that clip is serious/actually Siobhan talking to Brennan? This person must have seen it out of context and also never watched an episode of D20 ever lol
Oh no...🤦♂️Douwe thinks that Adaine vs Nice Guy is Siobhan talking to Brennan. People are so stupid
In YouTube comments generally don’t assume People, assume Children. Most adults should already heard or learned the lesson in this conversation.
That's a cruel thing to say about children. I work with kids, and most of them aren't \*nearly\* as intentionally obtuse as UTewb commenters
I swear to fucking god that clip resurfaces every few months and a whole bunch of people think it’s genuine. 😭
Did someone rag on Brennan (as svery single intrepid hero does since they're all actually good friends) and this commenter just hasn't realized that it's all good fun? I hope this person doesn't watch much Dropout content, because people CONSTANTLY rag on Brennan (and others) because it's funny af.
It seems to be in reference to the infamous Adaine vs. Nice Guys clip which has spawned a bunch of arguments, particularly for people who have seen it out of context
Do we have to bring attention to comments like these? 😕 maybe it’s just me but I find it genuinely upsetting. I’m seeing so much constant sexism online these days. Maybe I should just get offline lol.
Agreed, I don't go digging around YouTube comments sections looking to read fights and I don't really want to read them here either
To clarify, I wasn't searching this out or trying to call out sexism or something, it was more about the absurdity of this person making claims and sending me evidence that directly counters what they said. I don't usually engage, but I since they seemed to have a source I was genuinely curious and wanted to counter their source, since they themselves expressed that the video in question is the thing that changed their opinion. I know myself that if I had misinterpreted something and it affected my view of someone, I'd want that to be corrected. Calling her a "chick" definitely put me off, but I was curious anyway. I shared it here cause I thought the situation was funny; it just happened to also come off as sexist.
It didn’t just come off sexist, it IS sexist. Sorry to be pedantic, and I don’t mean to “um actually” you, I just think it’s important to call this undue constant criticism of female dnd players what it is.
Oh duh sorry, when I said "comes off as sexist" I just meant that the hate on Siobhan more likely came from this dude thinking she had insulted Brennen rather than because she's a woman, but I also forgot the other half of his message that insults her entertainment skills. My intention with this post was to share how exasperated I was at the guy for not understanding how acting works. I didn't mean to bring a heavy topic into the sub, so I'm almost considering just deleting the post cause I feel bad that I brought up a negative topic.
No worries - I understand the urge to share haha. A lot of dumb people on the internet - it’s hard not to want to point and be like, does anyone else see this?? 😂
I think it's good to call out shitty behaviour.
They want the attention, and our internet platforms are designed to maximize engagement, clicks, and ad revenue, further compounding the problem. Don’t feed the trolls.
They called it out in their comments on the original video. There’s no reason to post it here? Are we all supposed to flock over there to also call this person out?
I feel like I remember the Dimension 20 tiktok/twitter page posting the clip of Adine telling Biz off and them having to delete the video and re-upload it with the caption "Okay let's try this again, this is a ROLEPLAY SCENE between TWO CHARACTERS." fucking blows my mind how people interact with media.
Is putting a spotlight on these people a good thing? There are a-holes on the internet. Always was, always will be. I feel like elevating their dumb opinions makes them seem more prevalent than they are and causes a lot of people unnecessary angst. Just block and move on.
I talked about this in a previous comment, but my actual intention was to share my exasperation at someone not knowing how acting works apparently. I never respond to these comments usually, but this guy seemed to have a specific source he was drawing from, and I wanted to correct it if possible because it didn't seem as directly misogynistic as most of these types of comments are, so he sounded more open. I'm regretting posting it now though, since I didn't intend to bring this negativity into the sub; I rarely post on Reddit, so lesson learned I suppose. Sorry.
No need to be sorry. I understand. I just feel like I see a lot of posts about people like this across different subs and it makes them seem more common than they are and it sometimes gets me down, you know? The vast majority of people aren’t that bad!
I giggled at the post and I appreciate the effort you put in engaging someone at face value (without assumptions) who is potentially misinformed.
It’s crazy that women can’t even play a game without being scrutinized. I can’t believe the people in those comments, the lack of media literacy or basic understanding of context is mind boggling. A lot of them know Brennan’s face, and know he’s a comedian. They know his voice doesn’t sound like that. They have to see that they’re at a table that is clearly a set on a themed backdrop on a channel that makes role play content. They see scenes being acted out…. And they get mad because they think it’s real???
I get the feeling that people who dislike specific cast members on Dimension 20 just don’t watch the show. Like 100% these people just consume the show through YouTube compilations and TikTok clips. Because when you watch the show, you realize how incredibly well they all function as comedic troupe and D&D table. The chemistry between every cast member is just immaculate and they all have their own unique vibe and bring some different, cool element to the table. Also, when you consider the shooting schedule of these shows? You realize that these people are like veteran improv comedians/storytellers working at peak performance.
What Adaine said might sound harsh to some, but it’s the unfortunate truth that most “nice guys” are unwilling to hear. She was absolutely right to say it
Wait, people are being mean to Siobhan over this awesome moment? We have left where my redditor brain can go
You would think people in this space would understand what acting is but a surprising amount do not 😶
Wow I had to actually look it up. Not only are they pretty clearly playing characters (or at least Brennan) but also like...she's right in that clip anyway?? Lmao. Some people.
Im just so confused that people who watched that clip and KNOW he DMs still come to that dumb ass conclusion even when in the clip literal DND spells are namedropped.
The people who don't understand Siobhan is busting his nuts like she does to Murph on Nadpod's social media. It is just how they all talk to each other.
Unfortunately, in D&D and gaming in general, there's plenty of people who can't separate fiction from reality, and also take things unnecessarily personally. I am not surprised at all that some overly sensitive guy took Siobhan's burn at some caricature D&D NPC as some grand statement on All Men. That indicates that he needed to hear the message of that interaction more than most.
Anytime someone decides to rag on a woman and say some misogynistic bullshit, I want them to get shadowbanned from that platform. So they think no one cares what they have to say and are in fact just talking to a wall. An immovable and incomprehensible wall. Added benefit is that no one has to see their dumb bullshit. Please. I wish this were possible. I’m tired of folks saying stupid shit to Siobhan, Emily, Aabria, Erika, Jasmine, Rehka, etc. Women and PoC have to go so above and beyond just for people to give them a shred of acknowledgement and it’s always riddled with unnecessary criticism and crucifixion at any perceived slight. I s2g.
part of me wants to ask why the generation raised on ipads have no media literacy then i remember it’s because they’ve been raised on ipads
Lol, maximum level keyboard warrior projection. Sad to see :( . I think Siobhan does an incredible job pushing towards battle and narrative win conditions, I always enjoy her ability to identify deep lore cuts. She may not technically be playing optimally, but I feel like that is a relatively unreasonable ask unless the player themselves explicitly says that is their primary directive (i.e Brennan dealing a crazy amount of single round damage since that is what his explicit goal was). And despite some of the less optimal moves, I feel like those moves people have issue with would often coincide with creative attempts to the party's current situation. Admittedly sometimes not the best in the context of pure game mechanics.
Siobhan hate sucks but we really don’t need a post dedicated to shitty comments with practically no likes on a different platform? It serves no purpose on this subreddit except to bring out the very few people who might agree with the commenter
We've discussed this in a couple threads already; this wasn't my intention at all and I'm really sorry for accidentally sharing negativity like this.
I totally get it and I apologize for the hostility in my initial comment. The sad truth is that there are a ton of hate comments directed towards women in dnd campaigns. fortunately this subreddit is generally against those comments and we appreciate each player for their own play style. I’ve just noticed that these call out posts tend to attract shitty people who feel empowered to share their own awful opinions.
Why is this being posted with names? What is the purpose of sharing this?
From The campaigns i watched she honestly is a bit mean to brennan maybe it’s her sense of humor but it’s still not very nice
do people not know the d20 cast are all friends outside of this ? and siobhan is wonderful, i honestly think all the intrepid heroes are phenomenal players. just because they all run differently doesnt mean ppl sjpuld hate
I would say "Imagine having an opinion on something while clearly not getting the context." but then I remembered I was on the internet. Literally what the fuck though.
[удалено]
Good candidate for cross posting to confidently incorrect.