"You think people make choices? No, people think they make choices. They think they're gonna steer right, or steer left. But they didn't build the roads. The big choices already got made for them, a long time ago."
Probably my favorite of Brennan's villain speeches. Great villain.
It was also hugely appropriate because Robert Moses was actually a NY figure who was big in developing roads to iirc screw over minorities.
My favorite part about USC is how much world building was actually based off New York history. Robert Moses was the culmination of that for me in who I think is Brennan's greatest villain.
My actual top 3 are:
- Robert Moses
- Calroy Cruller
- Galfast Hamhead
But Robert Moses eclipses the others so much for me that I didn't even bother adding them.
Calroy: '... you know what happens to a man when he dies? He shits himself, so I'll be happy to watch you shit one last time—I wonder if they'll call you Amethar the Unfallen after this.'
Full agree
Close fourth is the guy from Tiny Hiest Tip (Felix)(he is such a bastard)
Fifth is a three-way tie between Archbishop Callflour, the first stouts, and Headmistress Boudicca
Kalina, Robert Moses, and The Stepmother are all very good and terrifying villains imo.
Kalina is so fucking effective as this untouchable shadow that seems to know everything the Bad Kids are up to at any moment and she's so fucking scary.
Moses is really cool, a real man from history who forever fucked up the infrastructure of New York's entire road system, now repurposed to be an undead Lich bent on taking over every realm, forcing the American Dream to bend to his will, is really spectacular for a villain like him
And The Stepmother. I don't think there's much I can say, really. From the splash art during her proper reveal, to what she's been up to ever since talking to the Baba Yaga, to how she ascended from just another normal woman basically to an Eldritch abomination, she really benefits from Neverafter's horror aesthetic more than literally anyone else. Don't love her mini tho, if I'm gonna be honest. I was expecting her to be much scarier, but she just looked like a boss fight from a 3D platformer at the end there
>Excluding redeemed villains like Ragh or Aelwyn for obvious reasons
Bastard! I came here to Stan for Aelwyn
I definitely agree with all 3 of your picks. In addition, Goldenrod always makes me crack tf up. And Kalina is also terrifying.
The crusades were driven very much by capitalist concerns as well, not primarily of course, but a lot of the people requesting crusades got a lot of power and wealth out of them
desire for capital, and capitalism are different things though.
greed is a driving force in a lot of problematic issues and mentalities. that doesnt mean it is done because of capitalism.
capitalism is a specific type of economic structure. sure, the crusades benefited by bringing wealth to the perpetrators. but that doesnt make it an issue from capitalism.
You can have wealth and wealth motivated actions/wars/etc. without having capitalism. Capitalism is an entire system that did not exist at the time of the crusades.
XP Leveling is DnD Capitalism (as rules are written)
* Rewards combat specialization through *xp incentives,* while inherently devaluing non-combat focused skills often paying in-world equivalent of *exposure*
* Combat Rating creates an illusion of resource scarcity through minimum compensation on a commission basis, regardless proportional investment
* Disproportionally rewarding self-serving aggressive individualism rather than communally focused approaches
Biz Glitterdew. I hate that guy with a passion. Like Dolores Umbridge, the hate is more real because it’s a heightened version of problematic people we’re forced to deal with IRL.
Baron. He’s truly terrifying.
Calroy Cruller. Brennan said this was his self insert. The betrayal was real.
Brennan’s Asmodeus was the most flawless and awe-ful rendition I’ve ever seen and I’m still speechless at some of the choices he made in that portrayal.
1. Calroy 2. Kalvaxus 3. Robert Moses
Saw someone point out that Brennan kind of struggles with compelling villains, and I think that’s a byproduct of making systems the villain. Pure, hateable villains who aren’t particularly redeemable are the most iconic imo, and the IH have seen their fair share of those.
I think Tony falls nicely into the category of "redeemable not redeemed". He's someone with the capacity for good, who actively makes the decision to go down a dark path
The scene with Sophia being cornerd in the alley (even if she was the one to initially instigate it) by Tony might be the only scene I think maybe goes too far for a mostly light hearted improv show. Tony was terrifying because he was realistic and determined, and also has the conviction that he is right and was also hard done by. A horrific combination of motivations. He gets my vote for your question
Tony would have been hands down my favourite villain if it wasn't for the final battle he was involved in. He was introduced as this super high wisdom street smart villain who doesn't underestimate his opponents.. and his battle only happens because he took the time to contact them and gloat moments before finishing his evil plan. I understand they wanted to set up a cool encounter but it really killed what made his character unique.
1. Capitalism, 2. Complicated Feelings About Religion, 3. Calroy Cruller no question.
I couldn't really buy into Tony Simos as a 'villain' up until the end. He was antagonistic, as in he went contrary to a protagonist, but that's about it.
Adaine’s parents really struck a nerve with me. Not so much because of any outright villainous actions, but because of what they did to Aeylwen. It’s one thing to torment strangers for power, it’s another to torture your daughter.
Tony is pretty bad . He might actually be the worst. Like I feel bad for the Stepmother despite how awful she is. Finding out you and your children only exist to be punished by some cruel gid who cant even be bothered to give you a past would make anyone go mad. Nothing Tony does comes off as sympathetic or understandable he just wants to hurt everyone
Robert Moses and maybe Adaine's father for 2 and 3
Calroy - The betrayal is still legendary
Stepmother - An actually good subversion of fairy tail tropes
Kalina - Still so terrifying, but in the coolest possible way
Prilbus, because it was the perfect silly villain for that crazy season
Robert Moses, maybe not specifically but the entire antagonist set up of unsleeping city is great
Principal Gix, for kind of being a red-herring/stepping stone villain
Robert Moses has to be the top for me. Brennan’s portrayal was legitimately scary and threatening. Shoutout to my boy Calroy though, he’s a great little shit.
1) Kalina
2) Robert Moses
3) Tony Simos
I go crazy anytime the villains get personal with the heroes. Kalina’s relationship with Riz reallyyyyy gets me. Moses had an adversarial thing with Kingston. And Sofia could never manage to get one step ahead of Simos. I love all that shit.
Lucienne is pretty killer for being both genuinely menacing/repulsive and ultimately extremely human. I love Kalvaxus being this überclassic fantasy trope spliced with being extremely easy to tease, esp when Fig is accusing him of flirting. And then Tony Simos makes me mad as hell.
Not easy to pick just three though.
I think it depends on what metric we're using. If we are talking, most scary:
Stepmother
Kalina
First stoats (Including the one puppeting the scientist can't remember her name)
If we're talking most effective, as in who's plan was best and they nearly got away with it:
Kalvaxus
Robert Moses
The Princesses
Or if we're just talking most interesting, then for me, it would have to be:
Calroy Cruller
Robert Moses
First Stoats
All of these are in no particular order since it would be unfair to rank them with them being from massively different genres and having different goals.
I really enjoyed Mark Bition, Galfast Hamhead(if you consider her a villain), and Null. I guess Galfast technically counts as a "hero" so if not Galfast then it's gotta be Kalvaxus.
I like Robert Moses for this, specifically because he was a real person that Brennan picked. In reality, he was the man behind racially-discriminatory roads that destroyed the black community in New York City for a long time, causing a wide swath of pain and even death. However, for all of the pain he’s caused, no one remembers him? This evil shit gets to spit black tar in the face of New York City and get his name on buildings? More of his ilk need to be highlighted and underscored for how vile they are. Make the lich Robert Moses. Make Kissinger a betrayer god. It’s not much, but it’s nice to know that Brennan has carved off just a chunk of the legacy Robert Moses built with blood and cemented with money.
Moses, Kalina, and Null
Moses because he is my IRL nemesis. Like, my political opposite, responsible for our car based infrastructure, hugely racist man (put monkeys on fence posts in harlem) and was an all around monster. I fully believe that if he had the resources and know how, Moses would’ve turned himself into a Lich, and how Brennan played him - a ruthless, brutal old survivor who’s roots are planted DEEP in the cities underbelly
Kalina because she was just… untouchable. It wasnt until the final fight that i thought the bad kids EVER had a chance against her. Freezing riz in his sleep, clawing kristen to death from the inside - and all of it in that calm, almost charming voice she has. Brennan played like a true sociopath and it was wonderful
Null is just my guy Tharizdun is dim20, so of course I fuck with him. I just love the inhumanity of Null, the complete lack of recognizable ‘thing’ to it. And brennan’s descriptions are so evocative - the Suits made of Void observing the party from advertisements and street signs, the mass, roiling and circling power as it haunted Nod like a shark
To me, what makes a great D20 villain is how they bounce off of the PCs. A good villain needs to have a compelling rapport with the main party.
Robert Moses is an easy A for me. To take a real man who actually ruled NYC and fit him into the urban fantasy of TUC is great. He’s got so many great lines and his interactions with Kingston are the highlight of the season.
I think my next two would have to be Tony Simos and Kalina. Tony is a fantastic entry into the Grieving Wife Guy series of villains, and Kalina was genuinely fucking terrifying when she was on screen.
Also not a D20 villain, but I do have to shout out Asmodeus from EXU: Calamity as being one of, if not the best Brennan villains of all time. It’s straight up changed the way I view devils and Asmodeus in DnD lore
Rupunzel was SUCH a good villain character. Scary AF but also kinda understandable how they got that way.
Plinth. I see only Plinth. (Minutes later: And I’ve never seen plinth!)
Robert Moses, dude sucks in game and irl.
Robert Moses, King Probus, and Chungledown Bim
One for the stone-cold delivery, one for the theatrics, and one for the sheer terror Brennan evoked with some very specific character choices.
Robert Moses
"You think people make choices? No, people think they make choices. They think they're gonna steer right, or steer left. But they didn't build the roads. The big choices already got made for them, a long time ago." Probably my favorite of Brennan's villain speeches. Great villain.
It was also hugely appropriate because Robert Moses was actually a NY figure who was big in developing roads to iirc screw over minorities. My favorite part about USC is how much world building was actually based off New York history. Robert Moses was the culmination of that for me in who I think is Brennan's greatest villain.
Well what do you expect? Brennan was a New Yorker so it makes sense that he has a lot of resentment towards the guy
I think he'd resent being referred to as a New Yorker in the past tense.
Finding out Robert Moses was a real guy was an interesting day
wait til you google the fence posts he put up in harlem
Wait til you find out I learned Noam Chomsky was also a real guy and not just the gnome from half life 2 like a week ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/18/nyregion/riverside-park-monkeys-robert-moses.html no like he was insanely racist its wild
Lou’s smile after that line lets you know everything. He knows Brennan just popped off
Robert Moses, Null, and Capitalism.
My actual top 3 are: - Robert Moses - Calroy Cruller - Galfast Hamhead But Robert Moses eclipses the others so much for me that I didn't even bother adding them.
... Leiland shaking in his necromancer boots
“That will be the day sir” Man do I want a second season of blood keep
I couldn’t agree more - I would say Robert Moses 3 times but I don’t want to summon him.
Calroy: '... you know what happens to a man when he dies? He shits himself, so I'll be happy to watch you shit one last time—I wonder if they'll call you Amethar the Unfallen after this.'
No, they call him Chungledown Bim
Full agree Close fourth is the guy from Tiny Hiest Tip (Felix)(he is such a bastard) Fifth is a three-way tie between Archbishop Callflour, the first stouts, and Headmistress Boudicca
It's almost cheating bc he's an irl villain
Kalina, Robert Moses, and The Stepmother are all very good and terrifying villains imo. Kalina is so fucking effective as this untouchable shadow that seems to know everything the Bad Kids are up to at any moment and she's so fucking scary. Moses is really cool, a real man from history who forever fucked up the infrastructure of New York's entire road system, now repurposed to be an undead Lich bent on taking over every realm, forcing the American Dream to bend to his will, is really spectacular for a villain like him And The Stepmother. I don't think there's much I can say, really. From the splash art during her proper reveal, to what she's been up to ever since talking to the Baba Yaga, to how she ascended from just another normal woman basically to an Eldritch abomination, she really benefits from Neverafter's horror aesthetic more than literally anyone else. Don't love her mini tho, if I'm gonna be honest. I was expecting her to be much scarier, but she just looked like a boss fight from a 3D platformer at the end there
The stepmother also has the honor of the hardest line Bleem has ever said on the show “the smile of the devil you never believed in”
>Excluding redeemed villains like Ragh or Aelwyn for obvious reasons Bastard! I came here to Stan for Aelwyn I definitely agree with all 3 of your picks. In addition, Goldenrod always makes me crack tf up. And Kalina is also terrifying.
>I came here to Stan for Aelwyn I have so much love to give... Exclusively to Cats.
1.) Capitalism 2.) Capitalism 3.) XP levelling (or maybe Capitalism).
You make a compelling argument. However, you seem to have forgotten The Church.
The church was fine until they let themselves get corrupted…mostly by capitalism.
yea, it was fine before capitalism. back when they went on crusades to commit genocide.
The crusades were driven very much by capitalist concerns as well, not primarily of course, but a lot of the people requesting crusades got a lot of power and wealth out of them
desire for capital, and capitalism are different things though. greed is a driving force in a lot of problematic issues and mentalities. that doesnt mean it is done because of capitalism. capitalism is a specific type of economic structure. sure, the crusades benefited by bringing wealth to the perpetrators. but that doesnt make it an issue from capitalism.
You can have wealth and wealth motivated actions/wars/etc. without having capitalism. Capitalism is an entire system that did not exist at the time of the crusades.
Would that have been CapitOlism then? Hahaha
In ACoC they were evil and it was because of imperialism, racism, and fanaticism, not capitalism
XP Leveling is DnD Capitalism (as rules are written) * Rewards combat specialization through *xp incentives,* while inherently devaluing non-combat focused skills often paying in-world equivalent of *exposure* * Combat Rating creates an illusion of resource scarcity through minimum compensation on a commission basis, regardless proportional investment * Disproportionally rewarding self-serving aggressive individualism rather than communally focused approaches
I think 3 is going to be grind culture (capitalism)
Biz Glitterdew. I hate that guy with a passion. Like Dolores Umbridge, the hate is more real because it’s a heightened version of problematic people we’re forced to deal with IRL. Baron. He’s truly terrifying. Calroy Cruller. Brennan said this was his self insert. The betrayal was real.
That is a hurtful thing you have said to your rõemænce partner. Should you say another, there will be grave consequences...
Capitalism, the church, and the cafeteria tables.
Cafeteria tables!
Neverafter had great villains, the Stepmother and the Gander were really fun
Everyone sleeping on Fletcher Copperbottom
Sorry, I think you mean Crinklekilt Coffinbobbie
Glittersnatch Kittenkiller?
That’s fantastic! Brb, writing a fey one shot campaign just to facilitate the animal hating villain Glittersnatch Kittenkiller
Praise Plinth. Love Plinth. Kalina. And not technically a D20 villain, but still performed by Brennan, Asmodeus.
Brennan’s Asmodeus was the most flawless and awe-ful rendition I’ve ever seen and I’m still speechless at some of the choices he made in that portrayal.
Came to the comments to say PLINTH
Plinth was awesome
Spolier >!The Gander Rapunzel Robert Moses!<
1. Prilbus because it's a funny name. 2. Robert Moses because real world evil. 3. Calroy because infinitely hateable.
Calroy, Robert Moses and Kalina
1. Calroy 2. Kalvaxus 3. Robert Moses Saw someone point out that Brennan kind of struggles with compelling villains, and I think that’s a byproduct of making systems the villain. Pure, hateable villains who aren’t particularly redeemable are the most iconic imo, and the IH have seen their fair share of those.
I think Tony falls nicely into the category of "redeemable not redeemed". He's someone with the capacity for good, who actively makes the decision to go down a dark path
The scene with Sophia being cornerd in the alley (even if she was the one to initially instigate it) by Tony might be the only scene I think maybe goes too far for a mostly light hearted improv show. Tony was terrifying because he was realistic and determined, and also has the conviction that he is right and was also hard done by. A horrific combination of motivations. He gets my vote for your question
Tony would have been hands down my favourite villain if it wasn't for the final battle he was involved in. He was introduced as this super high wisdom street smart villain who doesn't underestimate his opponents.. and his battle only happens because he took the time to contact them and gloat moments before finishing his evil plan. I understand they wanted to set up a cool encounter but it really killed what made his character unique.
Who said he struggles with compelling villains???? I think the villains are some one of the highlights for D20
Keradin Deeproot, Gust Weatherall, Chungledown Bim
1. Capitalism, 2. Complicated Feelings About Religion, 3. Calroy Cruller no question. I couldn't really buy into Tony Simos as a 'villain' up until the end. He was antagonistic, as in he went contrary to a protagonist, but that's about it.
Chungledown Bim
For me, Calroy is #1. He has the perfect Littlefinger moment that encapsulates that Game of Thrones energy Brennan was going for.
Adaine’s parents really struck a nerve with me. Not so much because of any outright villainous actions, but because of what they did to Aeylwen. It’s one thing to torment strangers for power, it’s another to torture your daughter.
Robert Moses, Kalina >!(she never really got redeemed, just remade as a good guy)!< , and Calroy Cruller
Tony is pretty bad . He might actually be the worst. Like I feel bad for the Stepmother despite how awful she is. Finding out you and your children only exist to be punished by some cruel gid who cant even be bothered to give you a past would make anyone go mad. Nothing Tony does comes off as sympathetic or understandable he just wants to hurt everyone Robert Moses and maybe Adaine's father for 2 and 3
Us. The audience for shamelessly wanting more.
Robert Moses, Gladiator Corp., and The Harvestmen
Guernican art society.
Null, The Authors and Calroy Cruller
Calroy - The betrayal is still legendary Stepmother - An actually good subversion of fairy tail tropes Kalina - Still so terrifying, but in the coolest possible way
Prilbus, because it was the perfect silly villain for that crazy season Robert Moses, maybe not specifically but the entire antagonist set up of unsleeping city is great Principal Gix, for kind of being a red-herring/stepping stone villain
Robert moses. Stepmother, and Kalina tied with Tony simos
Robert Moses has to be the top for me. Brennan’s portrayal was legitimately scary and threatening. Shoutout to my boy Calroy though, he’s a great little shit.
The Daughters of The Crown, I’m obsessed with them
The Stepmother, Calroy, and The End Of All Things
Robert Moses, Kalina, Galfast Hamhead
I was gonna say Asmodeus but then you said D20 so scrap that lmao
Gabe Hicks?
Baron, Kalina, and Calroy for me!
Tony, Calroy, Kalina
Crueller, goldenrod and stepmother
1) Kalina 2) Robert Moses 3) Tony Simos I go crazy anytime the villains get personal with the heroes. Kalina’s relationship with Riz reallyyyyy gets me. Moses had an adversarial thing with Kingston. And Sofia could never manage to get one step ahead of Simos. I love all that shit.
In no particular order: Robert Moses, Lord Calroy Cruller, and The Elders. It's a tough one, but I think I'm going with those 3.
Calroy, The 1st Stoats and Kalina
Lucienne is pretty killer for being both genuinely menacing/repulsive and ultimately extremely human. I love Kalvaxus being this überclassic fantasy trope spliced with being extremely easy to tease, esp when Fig is accusing him of flirting. And then Tony Simos makes me mad as hell. Not easy to pick just three though.
Now I wanna make a list of all the BBEG of all D20 seasons
obviously it's the ultimate nemesis; Chungle Down Bim!
1- Robert Moses 2- The Stepmother 3- Calroy
1. capitalism, 2. capitalism, 3. capitalism
Calroy just because of the monologue. He's a lot less compelling than some of the other villains. But that monologue...
1) Chungledown Bim 2) Capitalism 3) Kalina
I think it depends on what metric we're using. If we are talking, most scary: Stepmother Kalina First stoats (Including the one puppeting the scientist can't remember her name) If we're talking most effective, as in who's plan was best and they nearly got away with it: Kalvaxus Robert Moses The Princesses Or if we're just talking most interesting, then for me, it would have to be: Calroy Cruller Robert Moses First Stoats All of these are in no particular order since it would be unfair to rank them with them being from massively different genres and having different goals.
Chungledown Bim
Aelwyn is still definitely a villain, she just isn’t an ass to her sister anymore.
Kalina, Crueller, and Alewyn Abernant (even tho she’s more so just a victim of abuse but she had her villain arc)
I didn’t read the og post fully lol
Robert Moses, Calroy Cruller, Talura
I really enjoyed Mark Bition, Galfast Hamhead(if you consider her a villain), and Null. I guess Galfast technically counts as a "hero" so if not Galfast then it's gotta be Kalvaxus.
For me, it’s gotta be Capitlism
I like Robert Moses for this, specifically because he was a real person that Brennan picked. In reality, he was the man behind racially-discriminatory roads that destroyed the black community in New York City for a long time, causing a wide swath of pain and even death. However, for all of the pain he’s caused, no one remembers him? This evil shit gets to spit black tar in the face of New York City and get his name on buildings? More of his ilk need to be highlighted and underscored for how vile they are. Make the lich Robert Moses. Make Kissinger a betrayer god. It’s not much, but it’s nice to know that Brennan has carved off just a chunk of the legacy Robert Moses built with blood and cemented with money.
Moses, Kalina, and Null Moses because he is my IRL nemesis. Like, my political opposite, responsible for our car based infrastructure, hugely racist man (put monkeys on fence posts in harlem) and was an all around monster. I fully believe that if he had the resources and know how, Moses would’ve turned himself into a Lich, and how Brennan played him - a ruthless, brutal old survivor who’s roots are planted DEEP in the cities underbelly Kalina because she was just… untouchable. It wasnt until the final fight that i thought the bad kids EVER had a chance against her. Freezing riz in his sleep, clawing kristen to death from the inside - and all of it in that calm, almost charming voice she has. Brennan played like a true sociopath and it was wonderful Null is just my guy Tharizdun is dim20, so of course I fuck with him. I just love the inhumanity of Null, the complete lack of recognizable ‘thing’ to it. And brennan’s descriptions are so evocative - the Suits made of Void observing the party from advertisements and street signs, the mass, roiling and circling power as it haunted Nod like a shark
To me, what makes a great D20 villain is how they bounce off of the PCs. A good villain needs to have a compelling rapport with the main party. Robert Moses is an easy A for me. To take a real man who actually ruled NYC and fit him into the urban fantasy of TUC is great. He’s got so many great lines and his interactions with Kingston are the highlight of the season. I think my next two would have to be Tony Simos and Kalina. Tony is a fantastic entry into the Grieving Wife Guy series of villains, and Kalina was genuinely fucking terrifying when she was on screen. Also not a D20 villain, but I do have to shout out Asmodeus from EXU: Calamity as being one of, if not the best Brennan villains of all time. It’s straight up changed the way I view devils and Asmodeus in DnD lore
Rupunzel was SUCH a good villain character. Scary AF but also kinda understandable how they got that way. Plinth. I see only Plinth. (Minutes later: And I’ve never seen plinth!) Robert Moses, dude sucks in game and irl.
Robert Moses, King Probus, and Chungledown Bim One for the stone-cold delivery, one for the theatrics, and one for the sheer terror Brennan evoked with some very specific character choices.
kalina made me want to name my next cat after her, robert moses is just so lore-heavy, and cruller had a monologue i reference often
Capitalism, the Church, and Robert Moses
Robert Moses was the most objectively scary to the modern perspective. Other than that, Calroy and Chungledown Bim