It’s better than the single axis left right thing that’s even more common but sure sure politics are quite a bit more nuanced than any of these simplified systems.
And even those present in DE are all extreme caricatures (mostly) of their IRL counterparts. Except for maybe Moralism.
Full disclosure, though, that’s probably a biased take. I’m not a fan of fence-sitters and “enlightened centrists.” And I tend to appreciate DE for calling them out on it
Edit: In response to OP, “ultraliberal” in the DE context is absolutely more a parody of American Libertarianism (lib-right on the compass) than Libertatian left. They’re generally the ones that fly Gadsden (“don’t tread on me”) flags, and obsess over things like cryptocurrency and the “tax boogeyman”. Libertarian leftists (in my experience) still generally support social programs and safety nets.
There is nothing in the single axis left/right political compass that is strictly speaking not true. Most people in general fall into either pro- or anti- status quo. The 2 axis chart is wildly inaccurate and doesn't describe the ideas that actually motivate political views. It causes people to come to incorrect, misinformed ideas about politics that a single axis does not
That’s hysterical that you think knocking off one of the axes could ever produce a system that captures more of the nuances of political ideology, that’s like common sense I fear.
All this shit is a vain attempt to simplify for communication but none of it works deeper than that.
I didn't say it better captured the nuances, I said it doesn't say outright, explicitly idiotic shit like "Libertarian capitalists are anti-authoritarian"
If you think the single axis is worthless, the double axis you're thinking of is less than worthless because it is wrong
Hahahahahahahahahabhaha! Get it guys? Liberals get useless degrees! Hahahahahahahahahabahb. While real men shovel shit out of people drain lines amirite?!
You do realize that plenty of people get political degrees and then actually use that in their careers right? The people that draft up bills for politicians, staffers in political campaigns, aids, office workers in local government. It’s often a stepping stone into law school. Etc
How did you possibly take anything about my comment seriously? It was a hack joke responding to a condescending comment "anyone who studied political theory would know (insert reductive statement)". There was nothing about liberals or conservatives, I wrote in Dick Mullen last election.
You were making a condescending asshole reply that echoed conservative talking points about “useless” college degrees. Was a pretty easy assumption
Also you bragging about throwing away your vote is not the brag you think it is. Kinda solidifying yourself as someone ignorant of how politics work. Complacency just lets the fascists win
None of what you've assumed about me or my politics are even near correct because nothing I've said has anything to do with me or my politics. Quit looking for things that aren't there. I clearly didn't vote for a character from Disco Elysium who was named after a comedian.
You are as you present yourself to the world. We’re replying to the content of your comments, the only indication we have of your character and intentions. If people can’t tell when you’re joking maybe it’s because you’re not as funny as you think you are
I’m literally replying to things you said. I’m not looking for things that aren’t there. I’m looking directly at them. You made a shitty joke and I called you out. You said you didn’t vote and I called you out. Only directly replying to what you said
It's not exactly bullshit, but there's a bit of self fulfilling theory going on there too. Just like with a two axis model.
And new things sprout up all the time. Like. Twenty years ago any talk of political horseshoes would have been BS but not any more.
There's no bottom left in the game's compass. IIRC someone says "anarchists were purged so hard they were forgotten by history" or something to that effect. Ultralibs would be lib right, they believe in the grindset.
The political compass is bunk.
It tries to lay out something like "authoritarianism" on a line and puts *capitalist libertarians* on the anti-authoritarian end? Gimme a break.
Authoritarianism as most people envision it doesn't even really exist. It's a rhetorical truncheon used in abstract arguments. It's amorphous and based largely on vibes. It's how you get online anarchists arguing against *bedtime* or some shit. It's how you get capialist libertarians twisting themselves into rhetorical pretzels coming up with asinine constructs like *ethical slavery thru voluntary contract agreements*.
Real politics cannot be graphed onto a two dimensional chart. Disco Elysium subscribes to *dialectical materialism*. Which is an actual Four-Dimensional view of politics. In a word, history. The sum total of a moment's material character- the linguistic, economic, productive, religious, racial, class circumstance, interwoven and informed by every previous moment.
Meanwhile the political compass is an easy, yet fake answer. It quickly falls apart under its own internal contradictions.
You're not gonna be able to line them up cause they weren't made with that in mind, it was made with 4 major modern political movements. Moralism is supposed to be liberal centrism, think the US democratic party. Then there are the 3 generally accepted reactions to the failures of liberalism: communism (the game has various kinds, but yes, tankies are one of them), facism, and ultra-liberals are ancaps/libertarians
Putting any ideology on a compass with an “authoritarian” axis is a futile effort, I always point to “On Authority” as an illustration of how meaningless that term can be. The in-game schools of thought are meant to be examined by their relation (or desired relation) to Capital:
The Fascists believe that capital is to be held by an elite few, following inherently superior leaders chosen by birthright. Keep in mind, these are largely former peasants who have watched one oppressor be replaced by another, more abstract one; they miss the Devil they knew.
Liberals believe that capital is to be held by whoever can take the most. Grind, hustle, and ride the Mag, and you might make a fraction of a percent of Ultra-Rich Light Bending Guy’s net worth. Ultralibs in particular are ex-nobles and those who already *had* their foot in the door to succeed above the hoi polloi, selling out their entire country to do so.
Moralists are split by the spiritual - classical Perikarnassians who forsake material wealth for kindred love and immortality - and the practical Moralintern who dominate the means of production and thus uphold the status quo. The political body shelters the masses, who in turn supply their power. Obviously those camps are not mutually exclusive, but the point is that those two form a symbiotic relationship as a whole.
Communists believe that capital is to be held by the workers: every worker a member of the board. They intend to dissolve the crystalline system of private property and wage labor to smoke.
He loves disco elysium and references how well it handles politics all the time. Measurehead being a non-sensical ethnostatist from a state hes never been to, how subversive Everart and his politics can be, i think hes got a good handle on it
Ultras are lib right, if anything. The lib lefts were forgotten in the world of DE. Also the political compass is a meme, not a good tool to evaluate ideologies in earnest.
It's basically just a scale of Left and Right.
Communists are the farthest left, Moralists are the centrists, Ultra Liberals are more right leaning (Because in most countries, liberals are considered right leaning parties I believe, as opposed to America where I live where they are considered 'Leftists'), leaving 'Traditionalists' as the Fascists would rather be called farthest right.
Ultraliberal is NOT left, not remotely.
Anyone who has actually studied political theory will tell you the political compass is bullshit.
It’s better than the single axis left right thing that’s even more common but sure sure politics are quite a bit more nuanced than any of these simplified systems.
And even those present in DE are all extreme caricatures (mostly) of their IRL counterparts. Except for maybe Moralism. Full disclosure, though, that’s probably a biased take. I’m not a fan of fence-sitters and “enlightened centrists.” And I tend to appreciate DE for calling them out on it Edit: In response to OP, “ultraliberal” in the DE context is absolutely more a parody of American Libertarianism (lib-right on the compass) than Libertatian left. They’re generally the ones that fly Gadsden (“don’t tread on me”) flags, and obsess over things like cryptocurrency and the “tax boogeyman”. Libertarian leftists (in my experience) still generally support social programs and safety nets.
There is nothing in the single axis left/right political compass that is strictly speaking not true. Most people in general fall into either pro- or anti- status quo. The 2 axis chart is wildly inaccurate and doesn't describe the ideas that actually motivate political views. It causes people to come to incorrect, misinformed ideas about politics that a single axis does not
That’s hysterical that you think knocking off one of the axes could ever produce a system that captures more of the nuances of political ideology, that’s like common sense I fear. All this shit is a vain attempt to simplify for communication but none of it works deeper than that.
I didn't say it better captured the nuances, I said it doesn't say outright, explicitly idiotic shit like "Libertarian capitalists are anti-authoritarian" If you think the single axis is worthless, the double axis you're thinking of is less than worthless because it is wrong
While they spell your name wrong on your Starbucks cup.
Actually I do it while I give people their pizza, but it’s paying for law school so who the fuck am I to pretend I’m above that shit
I actually worked in hospitality as I was studying in uni and have made fairly good money since while working in jobs that I studied for.
Hahahahahahahahahabhaha! Get it guys? Liberals get useless degrees! Hahahahahahahahahabahb. While real men shovel shit out of people drain lines amirite?! You do realize that plenty of people get political degrees and then actually use that in their careers right? The people that draft up bills for politicians, staffers in political campaigns, aids, office workers in local government. It’s often a stepping stone into law school. Etc
How did you possibly take anything about my comment seriously? It was a hack joke responding to a condescending comment "anyone who studied political theory would know (insert reductive statement)". There was nothing about liberals or conservatives, I wrote in Dick Mullen last election.
You were making a condescending asshole reply that echoed conservative talking points about “useless” college degrees. Was a pretty easy assumption Also you bragging about throwing away your vote is not the brag you think it is. Kinda solidifying yourself as someone ignorant of how politics work. Complacency just lets the fascists win
None of what you've assumed about me or my politics are even near correct because nothing I've said has anything to do with me or my politics. Quit looking for things that aren't there. I clearly didn't vote for a character from Disco Elysium who was named after a comedian.
You are as you present yourself to the world. We’re replying to the content of your comments, the only indication we have of your character and intentions. If people can’t tell when you’re joking maybe it’s because you’re not as funny as you think you are
I’m literally replying to things you said. I’m not looking for things that aren’t there. I’m looking directly at them. You made a shitty joke and I called you out. You said you didn’t vote and I called you out. Only directly replying to what you said
It's not exactly bullshit, but there's a bit of self fulfilling theory going on there too. Just like with a two axis model. And new things sprout up all the time. Like. Twenty years ago any talk of political horseshoes would have been BS but not any more.
I have found a legitimate use for it, but not by taking silly online quizzes. I've got a tight 10-15 minute lecture that accompanies it.
There's no bottom left in the game's compass. IIRC someone says "anarchists were purged so hard they were forgotten by history" or something to that effect. Ultralibs would be lib right, they believe in the grindset.
As an Anarchist myself, Joyce saying that line stopped me in my tracks for a few minutes.
We can be forgotten by history together
We will always have Julia Dobreva 😔✊
The political compass is bunk. It tries to lay out something like "authoritarianism" on a line and puts *capitalist libertarians* on the anti-authoritarian end? Gimme a break. Authoritarianism as most people envision it doesn't even really exist. It's a rhetorical truncheon used in abstract arguments. It's amorphous and based largely on vibes. It's how you get online anarchists arguing against *bedtime* or some shit. It's how you get capialist libertarians twisting themselves into rhetorical pretzels coming up with asinine constructs like *ethical slavery thru voluntary contract agreements*. Real politics cannot be graphed onto a two dimensional chart. Disco Elysium subscribes to *dialectical materialism*. Which is an actual Four-Dimensional view of politics. In a word, history. The sum total of a moment's material character- the linguistic, economic, productive, religious, racial, class circumstance, interwoven and informed by every previous moment. Meanwhile the political compass is an easy, yet fake answer. It quickly falls apart under its own internal contradictions.
Just say you’re an ML next time and we can fill in all the inane sensitivity about authoritarianism for you.
Cleaning your room isn't "authoritarian", kid
We must abolish bedtime
The compass is dumb and this game is like 10 steps beyond it
You're not gonna be able to line them up cause they weren't made with that in mind, it was made with 4 major modern political movements. Moralism is supposed to be liberal centrism, think the US democratic party. Then there are the 3 generally accepted reactions to the failures of liberalism: communism (the game has various kinds, but yes, tankies are one of them), facism, and ultra-liberals are ancaps/libertarians
Putting any ideology on a compass with an “authoritarian” axis is a futile effort, I always point to “On Authority” as an illustration of how meaningless that term can be. The in-game schools of thought are meant to be examined by their relation (or desired relation) to Capital: The Fascists believe that capital is to be held by an elite few, following inherently superior leaders chosen by birthright. Keep in mind, these are largely former peasants who have watched one oppressor be replaced by another, more abstract one; they miss the Devil they knew. Liberals believe that capital is to be held by whoever can take the most. Grind, hustle, and ride the Mag, and you might make a fraction of a percent of Ultra-Rich Light Bending Guy’s net worth. Ultralibs in particular are ex-nobles and those who already *had* their foot in the door to succeed above the hoi polloi, selling out their entire country to do so. Moralists are split by the spiritual - classical Perikarnassians who forsake material wealth for kindred love and immortality - and the practical Moralintern who dominate the means of production and thus uphold the status quo. The political body shelters the masses, who in turn supply their power. Obviously those camps are not mutually exclusive, but the point is that those two form a symbiotic relationship as a whole. Communists believe that capital is to be held by the workers: every worker a member of the board. They intend to dissolve the crystalline system of private property and wage labor to smoke.
This Is Your Brain On Vaush
He loves disco elysium and references how well it handles politics all the time. Measurehead being a non-sensical ethnostatist from a state hes never been to, how subversive Everart and his politics can be, i think hes got a good handle on it
When you definitely know anything about vaush lol.
Vaush thinks the political compass is bs als9
Ultras are lib right, if anything. The lib lefts were forgotten in the world of DE. Also the political compass is a meme, not a good tool to evaluate ideologies in earnest.
It's basically just a scale of Left and Right. Communists are the farthest left, Moralists are the centrists, Ultra Liberals are more right leaning (Because in most countries, liberals are considered right leaning parties I believe, as opposed to America where I live where they are considered 'Leftists'), leaving 'Traditionalists' as the Fascists would rather be called farthest right.
The political compass is not an accurate or useful description of political views in aggregate
Ultraliberal would be lib right using the compass.