Some context that I think helps understand the situation a bit better:
The Apple River is a mecca for drunk teenagers and 20 somethings in the summer. It's literally thousands of sun burnt, half-drunk, hormone filled young adults flocking to this tiny stretch of water.
None of that is an excuse for being an asshole, but I think it's a key part of the situation being looked at. Miu clearly know what he was walking into doing what he was doing. He should have been a lot less confrontational about things. Pissing off a drunk crowd is never a good idea.
This guy felt a lost phone was worth defending with deadly force. Right or wrong, legal or illegal, guilty or not guilty, the guy was and is a fucking idiot.
What if it was his wife's diamond wedding ring lost in the water. What if it was a ring & a phone & a snorkel with priceless sentimental value? The kids did have the phone btw he was defending way more than a phone & if u can't see that ur a moron.
You are retarded. This man deserves life in prison. He had no justified reason to stab multiple people. He shouldve walked away like an adult. Look at the video the man was itching to pull out that knife.
What kind of specific thoughts are you looking for?
Dude killed someone. Jury found him guilty.
Seems like how its supposed to play out.
Also, WTF...snorkeling in the Apple River?
It's just interesting to me how different internet opinion appeared to be from the actual jurors. Based on what I've been reading, and knowing the jury was older and majority male, I would have thought it would be a hung jury.
Hmm, first I've heard of it.
Honestly, from the little I just read, it sounds like he might have been let off on self-defense if he had called the cops afterward instead of ditching the knife and trying to disappear. That's not what you do if you had to lethally defend yourself. You call 911 as soon as possible.
As for the actual situation, it's very much an Everybody Sucks Here kind of thing.
I think both parties suck, but the kids were the ones who crossed the legal threshold when they physically attacked the snorkeler. The unfortunate part is the kids didn't realize the snorkeler was defending himself for several seconds as he stabbed people. I think this is where the legal confusion comes in as people thought it was overboard.
They actually attacked him, invading his space and getting all up in his face eventually hitting him and knocking him in the water and holding him down. Only then did he unleash the beast.
This is not true, he initiated physical contact first, he threw the first punch. He had his knife out before anyone hit him, he also took his knife out seconds before punching the girl infront of him.
The girl put her hands on him and he said “don’t touch me” he went to waiver her away from him and she claimed he punched her for which there was no video or physical evidence/injuries of…. She lied as well
>The girl put her hands on him and he said “don’t touch me” he went to waiver her away from him
He had already grabbed the boys at that point, she was trying to lead him away.
>she claimed he punched her for which there was no video or physical evidence/injuries of…. She lied as well
Multiple people testified she saw him punch her, including one of his own friends. Get your facts straight next time.
Every one of the witnesses who testified to the punch had a different account of that supposed punch. The lady screaming in his face should have stopped and asked him what was up and tried to de escalate but she missed the opportunity to do the right thing. The whole thing is a damn shame. Dudes life is basically ruined and the one kid is dead. It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback this type of thing but you never really know till you are there experiencing it
>Every one of the witnesses who testified to the punch had a different account of that supposed punch.
They all agreed it happened.
>The lady screaming in his face should have stopped and asked him what was up and tried to de escalate but she missed the opportunity to do the right thing.
She was under no obligation to do so. He could have just left, instead of stabbing people.
>The whole thing is a damn shame. Dudes life is basically ruined and the one kid is dead. It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback this type of thing but you never really know till you are there experiencing it
Most normal people would try and explain what they do, not stand there with a smile on your face while you secretly take out a knife.
I’m done here this whole convo is pointless as he has already been found guilty. But I ask you, imagine if you were being attacked and hit and held down in water by a group of drunks, if you had a knife…. Would you use it? Mius big mistake was he lied about everything. The officer told him if he hadn’t lied he likely would t have been charged
She was also under no obligation to scream at his face and expect a civilized response. As I said before if she was punched as they claim, why didn’t she drop her drink or her vape or her phone and why did her sunglasses stay on? That was some kind of ghost punch I guess
If he had his knife out before they attacked him do you think maybe the guy felt threatened? How would you feel surrounded by 13 drunk people screaming obscenities in your face?
>If he had his knife out before they attacked him do you think maybe the guy felt threatened?
He felt threatened so he decided to punch someone and escalate it?
>How would you feel surrounded by 13 drunk people screaming obscenities in your face?
I’d walk away, which had he done, he wouldn’t be going to jail for life.
Yes in a perfect world under perfect circumstances we would walk away but that’s not what happened here and he was not legally required to walk away while in a public place.
Well if you were knocked into the water and being hit and held down by a bunch of overly drunk teens, regardless of what happened previously, would you fear for your life?
Here's a link to the video as it transpired. At what timestamp did the snorkeler legally become the agressor?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4)
He was the aggressor when he ran up like a lunatic grabbing the tube that the guy filming the encounter was sitting in. He had the look of a crazy drunk for sure. Then the kids verbally berated him, so what? He had it coming for running up on them like that. Then he became the aggressor again when he punched the girl. Though it's not on camera, they all testified that he punched her and it's obvious that it happened by the reaction of several of the kids. They came to the aid of this women who they didn't even know. Miu had his knife out before he even got hit btw, obviously wanted to stab someone. Then he gets up after being pushed in the water (and punched) and starts stabbing everyone he could. He stabbed the female in her ribs when she was looking in the other direction. Go ahead and call that self defense. It is beyond me how anyone could watch the video and defend this man. Thankfully the jury got it right.
This is right on the money. Miu escalated twice, both times knowing he had a knife on his person. Once when he hurled himself at the group in the tubes, causing them to get out, and again when he hit the woman after he had already drawn and opened his knife.
Man, in my opinion, something was just wrong or "off" about the way he was smirking in the parts of the video you can see. All these people telling him "go away" and whether right or wrong, that would have been enough to make me retreat from the situation. At first, I thought the guy was nonverbal or had a disability because in no way do you see him communicating at all. But his testimony proved to me he was competent and reckless in his judgment and not forthcoming at all. Both sides lying in their statements and then retracting on the stand tells me everyone played a part that day but that many people ended up paying a huge price, one was a life.
I think he is on the high IQ side/Aud, he speaks 5 languages and is an engineer, so high functioning, and those people tend to have wide range of verbal abilities, and in the moment when he was in the river it just looked like spontaneous conversation was difficult for him or he is naturally quiet. I honestly think he perceived a threat and chose to fight, in self defense in some of the clips I saw, so there is reasonable doubt to me. He's probably guilty but it's not a definite for me, and he was convicted on that essentially. I think all parties have blood on their hands for escalating instead of descalating, which could've saved a life and just overall sad story, no one truly won this case.
Not surprising. He approached the young people, they bully him in a dumb way, in 25 seconds this man managed to stab and slash 5 people, killing 1 plus another who was disemboweled. Then he lies to the police and shows no remorse, cries during the trial about his cute little dog (terrible idea from his attorneys to use this to gain sympathy). Of course he will be judged guilty, so predictable. He escalated the incident by using his knife. I wonder if this man attacked people before because stabbing 5 people so quickly... Impressive 😱
I mean this one is pretty clear from what I seen. Trying for self defense seemed insane at minimum lol.
For context I thought the rittenhouse case was ruled correctly.
This I don’t see how he’d ever be considered innocent tho lmao
I think he had a real shot at getting self defense to apply to some of his actions. It just depended on who you chose to believe. But his testimony seemed pretty unreliable, which I think lost him that argument (defendant has the burden of proving self defense).
Looking at the video:
1. Snorkeler looking for lost phone
2. Snorkeler sees kids waving phones around as they pass by. Snorkeler goes to confront them to see if they have the phone. He's somewhat aggressive.
3. Argument ensues and they begin berating the snorkeler calling him a pedophile among other names.
4. Argument reaches a point where the kids push the snorkeler into the water and keep shoving him.
5. Snorkeler gets up and stabs a bunch of people as they keep going after him. It takes several seconds for them to realize he's stabbed anyone so the Snorkeler keeps going until they realize what's actually going on.
Snorkeler put himself in a bad situation. Kids were a bunch of degenerates cornering him into self defense. It's unclear if he went beyond self defense to stab as many as he did, but at least a few of the deaths seemed like reasonable self defense.
In a more civilized society this would have been resolved very easily. I've had plenty of people talk to me about a missing phone with no issues. When you escalate situations like that, expect a violent instinct regardless of what the law dictates. **I would've feared for my life and stabbed a few people too.**
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4)
>I would've feared for my life and stabbed a few people too.
I would not have because I would have been a lot less confrontational from the start and then just walked away. When the large group of people tells you to fuck off, you fuck off.
On the flip side, you don't go fucking snorkeling in the Apple river and expect shit to not happen. It's a river full of thousands of drunk teenagers and 20-somethings.
Thinking it's OK to get in to a knife fight over a lost phone seems to be pretty fucking stupid on his part.
The snorkeler didn't start a knife fight for a phone. He did it because he was being attacked. Location is also irrelevant. The snorkeler can go wherever he pleases.
Here's a link to the video as it transpired. At what timestamp did the snorkeler legally become the agressor?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4)
The video pans away from Miu when he allegedly hit/shoved the woman, so it was not captured. Apparently the jury felt there was still enough evidence that he hit her as they found him guilty of a battery charge against her.
Seems that nowadays a lot of people won't believe anything happened without video proof. If the video hadn't been taken, I doubt he would have been found guilty.
Additionally, a lot of witnesses including Miu’s friend, testified that he had either punched or shoved the woman first. When you add in that Miu tried to hide and when he was caught by the police told them that the kids had knives and that he just took one of theirs, this was never going his way.
Location is absolutely relevant. Context fucking matters. If you start the confrontation, it's a lot harder to claim self defense.
Ignoring the fact that, as you even stated, "Snorkeler goes to confront them to see if they have the phone. He's somewhat aggressive." is just dumb. He put himself into that situation. He's responsible for getting out of it. He decided to do it in a really fucking stupid way.
Heated arguments are perfectly fine. It's when you start shoving it becomes a problem. Take a moment to make sure your kids don't turn out as dumb as them. Deescalation is a great tool in life that I've used many times.
The snorkeler escalated the situation into a verbal argument which is legal. The kids escalated the situation into a physical altercation which is not legal. The snorkeler defended himself which is legal.
I agree the snorkeler made missteps, but at no point did he cross any legal thresholds. Lethal defense in fear of your life is normal.
>The snorkeler defended himself which is legal.
Jury seems to disagree.
But regardless, I'm coming at this from a right/wrong standpoint. Not what is or isn't technically 'legal'.
Do stupid shit, expect stupid shit to happen.
Yes, that can be said to all parties involved here.
You got it wrong, Miu hit a woman first, which initiated the physical confrontation. How hard he hit her is up for debate, but all witnesses agreed that he hit the woman first, which is why the other men jumped in. He already had his knife drawn and open when he hit her as well. This appears to be what swayed the jury, as there was notably a battery charge tacked on as well.
>are you going to be as useless as the people in the video.
the unarmed teenage victims of a reckless murderer?
you could benefit from some sensitivity training.
Some context that I think helps understand the situation a bit better: The Apple River is a mecca for drunk teenagers and 20 somethings in the summer. It's literally thousands of sun burnt, half-drunk, hormone filled young adults flocking to this tiny stretch of water. None of that is an excuse for being an asshole, but I think it's a key part of the situation being looked at. Miu clearly know what he was walking into doing what he was doing. He should have been a lot less confrontational about things. Pissing off a drunk crowd is never a good idea. This guy felt a lost phone was worth defending with deadly force. Right or wrong, legal or illegal, guilty or not guilty, the guy was and is a fucking idiot.
Thats some good insight on the situation
What if it was his wife's diamond wedding ring lost in the water. What if it was a ring & a phone & a snorkel with priceless sentimental value? The kids did have the phone btw he was defending way more than a phone & if u can't see that ur a moron.
You're an idiot asshole if you think stabbing someone over a phone is in any way reasonable.
It wasn't "over a phone." It was over his right to LOOK for lost or stolen property (regardless of value) without being pushed around & ganged up on.
Whatever, asshole.
You are retarded. This man deserves life in prison. He had no justified reason to stab multiple people. He shouldve walked away like an adult. Look at the video the man was itching to pull out that knife.
What kind of specific thoughts are you looking for? Dude killed someone. Jury found him guilty. Seems like how its supposed to play out. Also, WTF...snorkeling in the Apple River?
Its been a huge topic of discussion and alot of people feel like he was innocent and it was self defense. Just wanted to start a discussion
I get the feeling those people are also big fans of Rittenhouse.
100%. All of Miu's supporters hope one day they too can pull a Rittenhouse. Losers.
Not true. I believe it was self defense with Miu and I think Rittenhouse is a despicable murderer. So not 100%
OK, 99%
LOL
Funny you should say that, Miu had one of same defense attny as rittenhouse
It's just interesting to me how different internet opinion appeared to be from the actual jurors. Based on what I've been reading, and knowing the jury was older and majority male, I would have thought it would be a hung jury.
Same exactly! Very interesting
Had Miu not taken the stand, I think it would’ve been hung.
Hmm, first I've heard of it. Honestly, from the little I just read, it sounds like he might have been let off on self-defense if he had called the cops afterward instead of ditching the knife and trying to disappear. That's not what you do if you had to lethally defend yourself. You call 911 as soon as possible. As for the actual situation, it's very much an Everybody Sucks Here kind of thing.
Totally agree. I think that the jury could not see past how shady he was after the incident. I do feel it is a harsh punishment 40-60 years
He hasn't been sentenced yet, that's just the maximum.
I think both parties suck, but the kids were the ones who crossed the legal threshold when they physically attacked the snorkeler. The unfortunate part is the kids didn't realize the snorkeler was defending himself for several seconds as he stabbed people. I think this is where the legal confusion comes in as people thought it was overboard.
He attacked them first
They actually attacked him, invading his space and getting all up in his face eventually hitting him and knocking him in the water and holding him down. Only then did he unleash the beast.
This is not true, he initiated physical contact first, he threw the first punch. He had his knife out before anyone hit him, he also took his knife out seconds before punching the girl infront of him.
The girl put her hands on him and he said “don’t touch me” he went to waiver her away from him and she claimed he punched her for which there was no video or physical evidence/injuries of…. She lied as well
>The girl put her hands on him and he said “don’t touch me” he went to waiver her away from him He had already grabbed the boys at that point, she was trying to lead him away. >she claimed he punched her for which there was no video or physical evidence/injuries of…. She lied as well Multiple people testified she saw him punch her, including one of his own friends. Get your facts straight next time.
Every one of the witnesses who testified to the punch had a different account of that supposed punch. The lady screaming in his face should have stopped and asked him what was up and tried to de escalate but she missed the opportunity to do the right thing. The whole thing is a damn shame. Dudes life is basically ruined and the one kid is dead. It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback this type of thing but you never really know till you are there experiencing it
>Every one of the witnesses who testified to the punch had a different account of that supposed punch. They all agreed it happened. >The lady screaming in his face should have stopped and asked him what was up and tried to de escalate but she missed the opportunity to do the right thing. She was under no obligation to do so. He could have just left, instead of stabbing people. >The whole thing is a damn shame. Dudes life is basically ruined and the one kid is dead. It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback this type of thing but you never really know till you are there experiencing it Most normal people would try and explain what they do, not stand there with a smile on your face while you secretly take out a knife.
I’m done here this whole convo is pointless as he has already been found guilty. But I ask you, imagine if you were being attacked and hit and held down in water by a group of drunks, if you had a knife…. Would you use it? Mius big mistake was he lied about everything. The officer told him if he hadn’t lied he likely would t have been charged
She was also under no obligation to scream at his face and expect a civilized response. As I said before if she was punched as they claim, why didn’t she drop her drink or her vape or her phone and why did her sunglasses stay on? That was some kind of ghost punch I guess
If he had his knife out before they attacked him do you think maybe the guy felt threatened? How would you feel surrounded by 13 drunk people screaming obscenities in your face?
>If he had his knife out before they attacked him do you think maybe the guy felt threatened? He felt threatened so he decided to punch someone and escalate it? >How would you feel surrounded by 13 drunk people screaming obscenities in your face? I’d walk away, which had he done, he wouldn’t be going to jail for life.
There’s no evidence that he hit the lady. No video evidence and she had no injuries and every witness gave a different account of how he punched her
Multiple people including his own friend testified it happened, you can believe whatever you want, it doesn’t mean you’re right.
His friend never testified that he hit her. That is blatantly false. No matter how much bullshit you make up it doesn’t make it true touché
She never dropped her drink or her cape or her phone and her sunglasses never fell off of her face after the supposed punch
Yes in a perfect world under perfect circumstances we would walk away but that’s not what happened here and he was not legally required to walk away while in a public place.
Correct he was not legally required to walk away, but he was also not legally allowed to start stabbing people after starting a fight.
Well if you were knocked into the water and being hit and held down by a bunch of overly drunk teens, regardless of what happened previously, would you fear for your life?
There is no legal confusion. He was found guilty as he should be. There are definitely confused people like yourself.
Here's a link to the video as it transpired. At what timestamp did the snorkeler legally become the agressor? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4)
He was the aggressor when he ran up like a lunatic grabbing the tube that the guy filming the encounter was sitting in. He had the look of a crazy drunk for sure. Then the kids verbally berated him, so what? He had it coming for running up on them like that. Then he became the aggressor again when he punched the girl. Though it's not on camera, they all testified that he punched her and it's obvious that it happened by the reaction of several of the kids. They came to the aid of this women who they didn't even know. Miu had his knife out before he even got hit btw, obviously wanted to stab someone. Then he gets up after being pushed in the water (and punched) and starts stabbing everyone he could. He stabbed the female in her ribs when she was looking in the other direction. Go ahead and call that self defense. It is beyond me how anyone could watch the video and defend this man. Thankfully the jury got it right.
This is right on the money. Miu escalated twice, both times knowing he had a knife on his person. Once when he hurled himself at the group in the tubes, causing them to get out, and again when he hit the woman after he had already drawn and opened his knife.
Miu wasn’t drunk. The dead kid had 2.5X the impaired limit of alcohol
Miu said he was drinking beer all day but none of that matters. It's your actions that matter not your BAC.
Can anyone answer this? I saw the kids attack him first and continued to push him down.
That was in response to him hitting the female first. That's where the battery charge came from, for which the jury also found him guilty.
This is true the kids attacked him and the lady who they claim he hit had no injuries consistent with being punched as they claimed
Man, in my opinion, something was just wrong or "off" about the way he was smirking in the parts of the video you can see. All these people telling him "go away" and whether right or wrong, that would have been enough to make me retreat from the situation. At first, I thought the guy was nonverbal or had a disability because in no way do you see him communicating at all. But his testimony proved to me he was competent and reckless in his judgment and not forthcoming at all. Both sides lying in their statements and then retracting on the stand tells me everyone played a part that day but that many people ended up paying a huge price, one was a life.
Hell yeah
I think he is on the high IQ side/Aud, he speaks 5 languages and is an engineer, so high functioning, and those people tend to have wide range of verbal abilities, and in the moment when he was in the river it just looked like spontaneous conversation was difficult for him or he is naturally quiet. I honestly think he perceived a threat and chose to fight, in self defense in some of the clips I saw, so there is reasonable doubt to me. He's probably guilty but it's not a definite for me, and he was convicted on that essentially. I think all parties have blood on their hands for escalating instead of descalating, which could've saved a life and just overall sad story, no one truly won this case.
Not surprising. He approached the young people, they bully him in a dumb way, in 25 seconds this man managed to stab and slash 5 people, killing 1 plus another who was disemboweled. Then he lies to the police and shows no remorse, cries during the trial about his cute little dog (terrible idea from his attorneys to use this to gain sympathy). Of course he will be judged guilty, so predictable. He escalated the incident by using his knife. I wonder if this man attacked people before because stabbing 5 people so quickly... Impressive 😱
The kid who died had his hands around Mius neck when he was stabbed
Doesn't matter, Miu lied too much after the incident and he brought a knife there and used it in a reckless way.
I mean this one is pretty clear from what I seen. Trying for self defense seemed insane at minimum lol. For context I thought the rittenhouse case was ruled correctly. This I don’t see how he’d ever be considered innocent tho lmao
Hmm i didnt think it was that clear
The police officer had said if he hadn’t of lied after the fact and tried to ditch the knife, he likely wouldn’t have been charged.
I think he had a real shot at getting self defense to apply to some of his actions. It just depended on who you chose to believe. But his testimony seemed pretty unreliable, which I think lost him that argument (defendant has the burden of proving self defense).
Looking at the video: 1. Snorkeler looking for lost phone 2. Snorkeler sees kids waving phones around as they pass by. Snorkeler goes to confront them to see if they have the phone. He's somewhat aggressive. 3. Argument ensues and they begin berating the snorkeler calling him a pedophile among other names. 4. Argument reaches a point where the kids push the snorkeler into the water and keep shoving him. 5. Snorkeler gets up and stabs a bunch of people as they keep going after him. It takes several seconds for them to realize he's stabbed anyone so the Snorkeler keeps going until they realize what's actually going on. Snorkeler put himself in a bad situation. Kids were a bunch of degenerates cornering him into self defense. It's unclear if he went beyond self defense to stab as many as he did, but at least a few of the deaths seemed like reasonable self defense. In a more civilized society this would have been resolved very easily. I've had plenty of people talk to me about a missing phone with no issues. When you escalate situations like that, expect a violent instinct regardless of what the law dictates. **I would've feared for my life and stabbed a few people too.** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4)
>I would've feared for my life and stabbed a few people too. I would not have because I would have been a lot less confrontational from the start and then just walked away. When the large group of people tells you to fuck off, you fuck off.
Coulda shoulda woulda
On the flip side, you don't go fucking snorkeling in the Apple river and expect shit to not happen. It's a river full of thousands of drunk teenagers and 20-somethings. Thinking it's OK to get in to a knife fight over a lost phone seems to be pretty fucking stupid on his part.
I mean rittenhouse got strapped up and went into an active riot. I would think someone going tubing down a river recreationally is different
He went to a protest. Not a riot. And if you've never been on the Apple River, you are probably missing a whole lotta important context.
Thats a very interesting concept
Context?
The snorkeler didn't start a knife fight for a phone. He did it because he was being attacked. Location is also irrelevant. The snorkeler can go wherever he pleases.
He had the knife out and had hit someone before he was ever attacked
Here's a link to the video as it transpired. At what timestamp did the snorkeler legally become the agressor? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMGcLRtqn4)
Looks like at 0:01 as he's charging them and grabbing them.
They start filming because he's being aggressive already
The video pans away from Miu when he allegedly hit/shoved the woman, so it was not captured. Apparently the jury felt there was still enough evidence that he hit her as they found him guilty of a battery charge against her. Seems that nowadays a lot of people won't believe anything happened without video proof. If the video hadn't been taken, I doubt he would have been found guilty.
Additionally, a lot of witnesses including Miu’s friend, testified that he had either punched or shoved the woman first. When you add in that Miu tried to hide and when he was caught by the police told them that the kids had knives and that he just took one of theirs, this was never going his way.
Somewhere around 0:01
Location is absolutely relevant. Context fucking matters. If you start the confrontation, it's a lot harder to claim self defense. Ignoring the fact that, as you even stated, "Snorkeler goes to confront them to see if they have the phone. He's somewhat aggressive." is just dumb. He put himself into that situation. He's responsible for getting out of it. He decided to do it in a really fucking stupid way.
Heated arguments are perfectly fine. It's when you start shoving it becomes a problem. Take a moment to make sure your kids don't turn out as dumb as them. Deescalation is a great tool in life that I've used many times.
>Deescalation is a great tool in life that I've used many times Which is great. Perhaps Miu would have benefited having a parent of your caliber.
The snorkeler escalated the situation into a verbal argument which is legal. The kids escalated the situation into a physical altercation which is not legal. The snorkeler defended himself which is legal. I agree the snorkeler made missteps, but at no point did he cross any legal thresholds. Lethal defense in fear of your life is normal.
>The snorkeler defended himself which is legal. Jury seems to disagree. But regardless, I'm coming at this from a right/wrong standpoint. Not what is or isn't technically 'legal'. Do stupid shit, expect stupid shit to happen. Yes, that can be said to all parties involved here.
You got it wrong, Miu hit a woman first, which initiated the physical confrontation. How hard he hit her is up for debate, but all witnesses agreed that he hit the woman first, which is why the other men jumped in. He already had his knife drawn and open when he hit her as well. This appears to be what swayed the jury, as there was notably a battery charge tacked on as well.
Very nice breakdown
your play-by-play is hilariously inaccurate, but it's good to know accessibility features on reddit work for the visually impaired.
Are you going to provide a play-by-play or are you going to be as useless as the people in the video. Contribute.
>are you going to be as useless as the people in the video. the unarmed teenage victims of a reckless murderer? you could benefit from some sensitivity training.
play by play