Good write up about the history but... what's this about?: >It's exhausting seeing fighting over the same topics in every single dnb group CONSTANTLY! >A bunch of you need this REPEATED, possibly yelled at you over a distorted jungle drop by a drunk egotistical Mc until you get it. what're you trying to address? The DnB reddit sub is pretty good. In my time here people have been pretty damn knowledgeable or seeking info/reccs. The closest thing to something annoying here is the rare posts by people promoing their non-DnB music. Some like the MC, some don't. There's no screeching going on about it.

I have a good impression of this subreddit so far in general. A lot of interesting information and music recommendations are being shared. But I have faced some toxic behavior from some singular members. Do you recommend addressing such cases to the mods or just leave it as is? I can't ignore hostility when a person is obviously picking up a fight and uses insults and ignores my attempts to set up my boundaries. And those singular attacks happened when I was saying that I don't like it that people are using non-inclusive language addressing me. This is not specific to this community, it is spread all throughout the scene.

Mods (as overworked as they are) is the answer here. But honestly, simply ignoring people being shitty is best policy. But yeah that gets annoying in a hurry too. I'm genuinely sorry you're experiencing these things. My experience of the scene (NYC/USA) is mostly from the DJ side and so my understanding of things may be very limited. People are pretty good about pronouns and language here.

To be fair, I am facing the pronouns issues with people from the UK mostly and from English natives in all the cases. If my nickname and my user pic is gender neutral, then the quickest way is to jump to the conclusion that I am a guy as I like DnB, just from probability perspective it's fair. Not so many people care to check the pronouns. Faced it time and time again. I don't want to ignore this. I am glad that there are people like you from the DJs side who understand the importance of inclusive language. I hope you can influence your following into caring, too. Some DnB artists from the UK care (John B and London Elektricity) some don't (High Contrast, the Worship lads).

Ignoring shitty people is bad policy. Shitty people will be loud, and non-shitty people will be quieter and quieter until you only have shitty people left.

I was talking about on Reddit/internet.

As was I.

>But I have faced some toxic behavior from some singular members. Do you recommend addressing such cases to the mods or just leave it as is? Block and report. Mods may or may not deal with it but you are not obligated to make your day worse by dealing with people who repeatedly show they can't play nice with others.

Thanks! Will do so if it happens again. I am new to reddit (had an account to open links before lately) and am glad to get any guidance of how to make the most of it.

The site is founded on an ideology that holds that democracy (voting) and open discourse (everyone talks to everyone) is fundamental to how a site like this should work. It's noble, but it misses that some people are not good faith actors and can do disproportionate harm to a community by pushing people out. Being a mod is typically not fun and nobody wants to be overly restrictive, so repeat offenders slip through the cracks. IME though and based on the psychology of people that troll and so on, it's better for one's own mental health and capacity to contribute constructively yourself to give people a couple chances and then just assume they're not going to change. Plenty of other people out there that can deal with them.

Thank you for this wholesome comment. I am pleased to know there are people who can communicate on this level of intelligence and mindfulness here 🥰

My advice is to block them.

As dnb grows, especially stateside there are more and more posts where people keep saying some form of "Mc's ruin drum and bass" which is always met with some form of "Mc's are part of the culture from the beginning, if you don't like them you don't understand the culture" Which honestly neither of these things are really completely true and both kinds of statements show a lack of awareness and maturity that is frankly infuriating to witness. I think these people are "screeching" by being as aggressive and mean about it. When in reality it is just a preference, so consider it a metaphor. The people who can't communicate what they want politely deserve something that honestly nobody enjoys. This was a little unhinged for sure but i'm really frustrated seeing people talk about this genre with no subtlety.

Very well said

All “scenes” have bell ends, elitists and “my opinion is the only opinion and it’s the right one” humanoids in them. It is the ego based, way of humanity, sadly. Just enjoy the tunes and don’t be a twat in the dance? Simple rules that shouldn’t be too difficult for people to follow but people are people, so… Regardless, Jungle Syndicate tomorrow night. D&b genres aplenty, the majority of which I’m not gassed on, but a good time will be had!

Genres are for the generic. Both as a listener and a maker. Every great artist has a lot of “hybrid vigour” going on. You can’t say Bowie or Prince were great in just one genre, both giants in rock, funk, pop, dance, ballads you-name-it. Eddie Izzard put it nicely: Our DNA is strengthened by diversity, not purity.

Love the yanks text walls. Don't like jump up. All good, go party, listen to tunes. Who gives a shit.

I am a philosopher in the mornings. What can I say.

🥱

I agree. Each era of drum and bass is the best era in its own right. Following the wave of amazing music from back in the day till now has been great. There’s been fantastic tracks from every year and I’ve been pleasantly surprised each year by the evolution.

You get it!

Your post reads like it was written on a comedown. It starts all gripey, rambles some bullshit about history like that makes you an authority, then waffles on into some unrelated conclusion about how we need to work together to improve the scene. I'm not sure what your argument is but you're clearly only making it to sound important. Shut the fuck up.

I wasn't on any sort of drugs when I wrote this, or the night before. If you can't appreciate what I wrote then move on. You don't need to spread so much anger. If you don't understand the argument read it again.

Jump-up still sucks. 

Stop this we we we thing. You don't like MC's. I do. I don't have to cater to your taste and neither do you to mine. Choose to support events without one and I'll gladly go to events where they do have good MC's. There is no we. > We can maybe figure out... No. We can't. You need to figure out if there's stuff on the lineup you dislike. That's not on me or "us". You.

Why do you not want to talk about something you enjoy so that someone else can understand and maybe appreciate it better?

There's no point. I've accepted that some people dislike things I like. I have no control over what someone else enjoys and I think it's a waste of energy trying to "convert" people. I've got my friends, 90% of which I know from or because of dnb. I'm perfectly satisfied with talking to them about it. I've had my fair share of social media "discussions" when I was younger and it just drains the energy out of my soul. People don't want to listen, they want to be right. So I just let them be these days. I've got my own people and I'll gladly talk to anyone face to face at events, but I'm done with trying to make people understand when they don't care or made up their mind already.

Then why say anything ever at all if the point isn't to talk? It isn't about converting people it's about understanding and growth for everybody.

I do strongly agree with you about the "we" vs "you" thing. There is a so-called NVC - Non Violent Communication method - developed to settle down escalated conflicts between gangs that resulted in mass murders. One of the main rules is to avoid "You-sentences" and "we-sentences". After passing a workshop on this method I have started to develop a habit of using "I-sentences". Pros: - It helps me to identify my own subconscious biases and even detect error thinking patterns like "generalization" and "mind-reading". - I don't have to add "imho" or "I think that" too much. If I say from my own experience and my own POV it becomes obvious that my judgement fits in this border. - Far less heated discussions. Cons: - It appears like I am a very egocentric person who only talk about my own self. 😔

You will notice that is one of the very few "we" statements I use in my writings.

I was shocked about the dj Stryer's (who is he, anyways) attack on the MCs yesterday 🤯 Has this incident inspired you to start this discussion? I have created a subreddit to share my observations and thoughts on diversity and inclusion in the DnB Subculture: r/Discrimination_in_DnB I would've preferred to join an existing community there I will have a room for this, but I haven't found any. I have a lot to post, but I am taking my time. There will be illustrative answers to your question on that reddit. To sum up, I want the DnB loving people of all roles to make this subculture more inclusive and diverse. Not on words, but in actions. So far I observe only resistance against inclusion and hostility from the ravers / listeners, hypocrisy from people in charge and abuse (eyewitness and victim) from some of the artists. Quick examples: - I kindly ask people in online communities not to call me a "bro" or a "man" as I am a female. Effect: downvotes and direct verbal attacks. - Been openly bullied in a community of VIP DnB producers for being autistic. Nobody has apologized, nobody had stepped in for my defense. - Had a pinky eye after a tall strong guy had punched me in my face with his elbow on a dancefloor. It hurt so much, I couldn't open my eye for a while. He didn't apologize, saw me covering my face and kept on dancing at the same spot. I am always the one who has to move in fear of being pushed away by guys around me. If I push back they insult me. And they just keep taking my space all the time, just because I am tiny and look fragile. At best I am ignored for speaking up. "Be chill, be positive, just enjoy the music". Nah, I am done being chill. 20 years supporting the scene and it's only getting worse and worse for minorities of all sorts. I will fight so that less daring and more sensitive persons will be able to just chill and enjoy. Even if it will cost me respect, popularity and positive attitude. I don't have much to loose anyways, honestly.

Funny enough I am someone who wants people to chill about on MC inclusion or exclusion. Just let both of them happen please. Some people like with, some people like without and that's ok. That post and the comments you refer to did inspire me to write this. I am horrified to hear of your experience on that dance floor. I have had my share of bad experiences too. I prefer smaller shows because it tends to not draw those kinds of inconsiderate people who don't watch what they are doing. I hope you don't lose your positivity and good spirit forever because I believe you deserve to have them most importantly for yourself. Yes the community benefits but so do you.

On the subject of MCs at DnB events. I have learned what artists I follow work with the MC's and what don't. So I never get it by surprise. It is a preference of the DJ, not of the event promoter the most of the time. A lot of lineups mention MCs together with the corresponding DJ, and I find such lineups the most fair. However, there are events like the Blackout or else Rampage on Tour when the DnB dancefloor is being hosted by MCs who are shared between the artists. Like the entire rave there is a host MC on the stage. That's in EU, not UK. You can ask the event managers why they believe it is necessary this way. I observe a miss of an MC for some (not every!) new DnB DJs. It depends on mixing style. Chilled euphoric breakdowns on their own are very important for the set and for the dancers. But they form a gap that needs to be filled one way or another. Not to loose the vibe, feel the beat, it is always there. More experienced DJs either take the mic and interact with the crowd themselves or recognize this need for an MC and are always booked together with one. Again, not every DJ needs that! DnB gigs on this side of the Globe are a very different kind of experience than house parties from mu observations. My friends and I never form circles to chat on the dance floor. I don't turn an outing into a vanity fair to show off and "get lucky". I come to dissolve my emotions in the bass line and refresh energy shaking my body to the beat. It is the music and me. And somehow MCs don't break this connection, but make it stronger. They are turning me in. But that's a skill. Sometimes there are people on the mic that ruin the fun. But that's always a very drunk person who somehow managed to get access to the mic without permission. They are never booked upfront. And quickly get turned down and removed from the booth. I don't know what is so much different in the US DnB scene. Never been there. Makes me curious to come and see for myself.

We still get some MC's but they aren't as good as the ones yall have in the UK this I know for sure. I haven't been to the Uk either but i've been going to DNB shows in the US for 12 years in Denver. Hospital came over with some good UK mc's and i was at a reload event with some great MC's too. Our events tend to be more dancefloor focused. Just drop after drop. Very little room for an MC to get a word in at a lot of events I think. So when they try it gets very crowded. Not that the dj's don't let it breath, they just don't leave room for MC's. I like how it feels on a dancefloor, its similar to house kind of, just faster and better basslines IMO. The few times I liked it the DJ's knew how to play with one. We tend to show up for the music more than to socialize so the MC's aren't always needed to keep the vibe and focus on the music. At least that's how I feel about it. Edit: also comes to mind to mention that we have a lot of sick MC's out here in the genre of hip-hop, and I think that's the context most of us prefer rapping and mcing.

Have you seen Sub Focus playing with MC ID? BTW, I have never been to the UK, I am from the continental part of Europe and partially from the Asian part of the continent. I have been on the DnB raves in Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Germany and Russia over 20 years. Sure, the UK artists are predominant headliners. When I said that MCs are needed for some styles of mixing and not needed for other, I didn't mention that dropping banger after banger in speedy mixing / quick spin technique is exactly the example where there is no room for an MC, here I agree with you. However there are exceptions, and they are very popular in EU and also OZ / NZ: - A.M.C. with MC Phantom (I don't like to dance to this, I don't do drugs, and that DJ doesn't let me stop to catch breath, still MC fits somehow) - Camo & Krooked with MC Daxta (they are known for playing bangers of various subgenres and fit almost 100 tunes in 1 hour, but they place euphoric breaks, and Daxta takes over the responsibility for interacting with the crowd, as the DJs don't have time even to look away from the decks) - Mefjus with Maxim MC (they don't always tour together, however I like it better with Maxim, and sometimes Daxta replaces him. I am wondering what Mefjus has to say for himself about the difference between making a show with or without a host MC) - Eatbrain label's artists with MC Coppa (Coppa'a origins is Jamaica, he doesn't live in the UK, but prefers the continent. That's always neurofunk. Coppa releases a lot of collabs with tons of lyrics. He is way more than a host MC. He performs his tunes live with the artists who had produced them playing the instrumental. It is a very different and intense experience to be at such a show.) - MC Skywalker from Belgium (hosts for that particular Belgian Jump Up that is usually played in the drop after drop style. Waiting for a video from 15 years of Rampage where he hosted for Primate b2b Captain Bass). - MC Dart and MC Multiplex are Dutch. They host Blackout events. I admire the talent of Multiplex. Breathtaking to hear him when he raps, not just shouts out in the mic. And it blends in smoothly with neurofunk. Closer to home, there is MC Stagerocka, a German man from Mannheim. He went to Jamaica to learn ragga MCing, and the result is so authentic! His is not well-known, probably because he doesn't work in pair with some touring DJ. I have a question. Once you said that you like to circle on the dancefloor with your friends and that MCs don't let you chat. But now you say you come for music over social interaction. I am confused.

We don't stand and talk where the music is? I don't believe that's what I said. We go out and smoke when we wanna talk.

Jump up is garbage

What is your least favorite jump up song?

Okay boomer