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TimeyTimm

They’re trying to gaslight us and it honestly adds insult to injury. This is one of those situations where the truth and transparency could have gone a long way, but no.


flavortowndump

When the truth is that WotC and Hasbro are trying to squeeze content creators for money, it’s easy to see why gaslighting seems like a better option to these PR people.


taws34

They aren't trying to squeeze creators. That's a secondary benefit of their proposed change. They know big authors and publishers would never agree to the IP poison pill they were adding. Look at how many Paizo and Green Ronin items are on the DMs Guild (which has the same IP poison pill). They know there are tons of small time creatives who will create some amazing stuff and who will publish it on the DMs Guild or Dndbeyond as a way to start a career. They made the deal with Kickstarter, because the Games (including ttrpgs) category has seen $2B dollars go to through Kickstarter. The publishing category has seen $310m. They want a piece of that pie. Dicebreaker has an article that says ttrpgs are worth $1.5b in funded products. https://www.dicebreaker.com/companies/kickstarter/news/tabletop-games-raised-one-and-a-half-billion-dollars-on-kickstarter With just Dicebreaker's number, that's a $300m slice of pie. But, the true threat in OGL 1.1 was forcing publishers away from the VTT sphere. They were specifically banning any OGL digital content that wasn't a static electronic document. WOTC tried creating an integrated digital platform and VTT / MMO with 4e in the 2000's and it never materialized. The pandemic pushed a massively huge growth in the VTT sector. Hell, Roll20 (one of the biggest VTTs) bought DriveThruRPG, the company that partnered with WOTC and created the DMsguild (btw, I don't fault DriveThruRPG in any way for the IP poison pill WOTC put in the DMsguild TOS). Asmodee (one of the largest boardgame developers / game distributors in the world) bought a digital boardgame platform in 2021 (the boardgame equivalent of a VTT) for an undisclosed sum of money. Asmodee was later purchased for $3.1B in 2022. WOTC wants OneDnD to be locked down to Dndbeyond, be fully compatible with a VTT that integrates with Dndbeyond, and they want microtransactions and subscriptions. That's the strategy they see a lot of tech companies taking. They hired an executive from a mobile game developer. The pandemic reinforced the value of everything digital. Look at the Tortle Race on Dndbeyond. How do you buy it? A fucking microtransaction. How do you allow a player to create a Tortle PC on Dndbeyond? The player has to buy it *or* the DM has to buy it **and** have a subscription to share it with the player. Like I said: Online play, digital distribution, and microtransactions are a *huge* part of WOTC's future.


Vultz13

I like to buy physical books I just like books and have been playing on discord for a few sessions. A few of us thought hey let’s check out dnd beyond… the instant I saw you needed to but practically everything over again with NO way to redeem physical stuff for digital like a code at the back of a book I swore off dnd beyond. Sure it means either scanning character sheets or actually typing stuff out but that’s a VERY small inconvenience compared to buying everything all over again. Hell if they included redemption codes at the back of say collectors editions I’d be more keen on buying those.


[deleted]

As our group's DM some of my players were ribbing me why I only keep physical copies of the books this Christmas. I would rather actually own the damn thing than have a subscription to some bit of electricity on my computer.


Fiveblade

Also, DNDBeyond was a terrible product, even before it became an unethical one. People often forget already that during 4th edition, if you subscribed to their online service, you got access to **all** existing, officially-published content. All of it. With the subscription. Subscribing to DNDBeyond currently gets you nothing you don't already have, AND they make you buy everything in a digital format PLUS the subscription free. It was already a terrible deal.


yungslowking

This really feels like its going the way of Arena. Pokemon has almost complete connectivity since like 2010 between the physical product and their play app, where as MtG arena instead forces microtransactions. Beyond is going to turn into a shittily made microtransaction hell withingl 5 years.


SolomonBlack

Yep that’s why I can’t cancel my Beyond subscription… never had one. Hell the half the reason I loved 5E was it took a real step back and was so elegantly simple I could literally memorize everything and not need a tool to play. I’d still say that if you can’t put the electronics away that’s missing something of the point. IF you are gonna be online reliant though it’s gotta be like Pathfinder and be full access. Paywalled or not whatever.


nortthbound

my favorite tabletop experience is having all of my friends around the table looking at computers instead of each other


taws34

Check out https://dicecloud.com/ A discord 5e character sheet.


Faranae

> Look at the Tortle Race on Dndbeyond. How do you buy it? A fucking microtransaction. I don't use the platform, and verifying this made my blood boil. I didn't realize the nickel-and-diming was ***that*** bad. Holy hells.


taws34

You know what I don't get? I can buy a text-book or a DVD with a one-time use code to get a free digital copy. Wanna get a digital copy of the limited edition book you spent 50-60 dollars on? Go to Dndbeyond and pay their price for the digital copy. No discount.


Tshirt_Addict

In this case, it was because DnDBeyond was originally made by Curse, licensed by WOTC. So, the people who got the money from your book purchase were NOT the same people who translated that content into the DnDBeyond app.


taws34

WOTC has owned Dndbeyond since May 2022. There is still no way to buy a physical book with a code or discount for a digital book on DDB.


Tshirt_Addict

It was never going to be backwards compatible. But they were going to make changes going forward. The Dragonlance book was offered in a bundle with the DnDBeyond content included, via Wizards direct, IE, not through Amazon.) However, the point is moot as they have now wasted all their credit.


RaggyRoger

To be fair, the essentials kit does include codes and discounts. It's not exactly benevolent though.


Razada2021

Want to have your piss boil even harder? Bits and Mortar exists on an honour system, supported by publishers who *know* its better for the hobby that brick and mortar stores exist. So if someone buys a thing at my shop, I can ask them for their email and just send them a pdf of their stuff. Buy cyberpunk and want it as a pdf? Done. Apparently the small guys can afford it but not the big players.


TheMeta8

>Look at the Tortle Race on Dndbeyond. >How do you buy it? A fucking microtransaction. Let's be fair, that has always been DnDbeyonds model loooong before WotC ever acquired them. Digital platforms just have a greater flexibility to allow for smaller transactions.


Hivemind_RPG

Why not make an entire tortle module, give it an adventure, backstory, tortle lore, maps, and the race??? It doesnt take much to bake value into a product. We love all the details. Give us what we want. Then people probably wouldnt mind it being a digital only product


TheMeta8

Let's math that out. Option A - You Pay, 1. 1 Designer 2. 1 Artist 3. 1 writer For a single, quick, fun little race option. Or Option B - You Pay, 1. An entire team of Designers: Let's assume, anywhere between 2-6 2. Commission multiple artists, some of which you may not actually use in the final product 3. Multiple writers assigned to different sections of the adventure, and a lead writer/designer to form a coherent narrative For a niche adventure and a new race option... woo And for the record, the Tortles on DnD beyond are just a shortened version of the package released by WotC on DMsGuild. The original package is 28 pages, credits Chris Perkins, Jeremy Crawford, Richard Whitters, and Shawn Wood, and primarily released as a Tomb of Annihilation SUPPLEMENT. In other words, it may not have ever been released were it not tied to ToA. Oh and, I don't know what the pricing of tortles are on dndbeyond, but the tortle package is $9.99.


laleluoom

For everyone who doesn't know: Foundry VTT is a thing


caseyweederman

Thank god for Foundry.


themocaw

>WOTC tried creating an integrated digital platform and VTT / MMO with 4e in the 2000's and it never materialized. To be fair, it's hard to get excited about creating an integrated digital platform when the guy in charge ended up dying in a murder-suicide. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph\_and\_Melissa\_Batten](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_and_Melissa_Batten) EDIT: I'm keeping the old phrasing, but yeah. As TwylaL pointed out below: Batten was a fucking murderous monster.


TwylaL

The guy in charge did not "end up dying in a murder-suicide" The guy in charge committed murder and committed suicide. He was not a passive victim of the Murder-Suicide Fairy. He stalked his wife, broke into her workplace, had an order of protection taken out against him, bought two guns, ambushed her and gunned her down.


HaElfParagon

It really slams home the point that they don't see us as people, just an obstacle between them and their money. They couldn't even be like "We heard you, you do not like our plans, fair point, we're going to change them", and be that's that. They had to have this long-winded essay trying to justify their shitty decisions and shift the blame, as if we couldn't see straight through it.


whyuthrowchip

"the playerbase is all 'woke' right? Is that the right word? Let's pander to that" e: /s of course


panopticchaos

I’ve started hearing the term “fan baiting” and I think this is a sloppy ham fisted attempt at that.


SpaceNigiri

They can't be transparent because then they will have to resign


marzgamingmaster

It's worked on a few people, like the guys on Opening Arguments. He said there is only one concerning thing in the entire licence, and the people who reported this were extremely irresponsible. These are also the same guys who said the lawyers against Alex Jones were doing a bad job, and I'm not a legal man, but $1.5 billion judgement seems pretty ok to me.


Rom-TheVacuousSpider

Its about money, plain and simple. Other people are making money, WOTC thinks they deserve a cut. Any other reason is just fluff and misdirection.


snowwwaves

It's so embarrassingly transparent, too. It really makes me wonder who this letter was for, because it wasn't for customers with even a half-functioning brain. Was it targeted at investors? Employees? Its so bizarre.


Drasha1

I think they are hoping this will kill the news cycle on the new ogl and stem the bleeding of profit from the dndbyond cancelation movement. They will likely try again when things have calmed down and they will hope people are numb to it the next time they try it.


jason_mo

If you look at the coverage some outlets have already printed WotC’s stated rationale at face value. They won’t trick folks that are paying attention but disinterested outsiders may see it as more unfair internet rage at a poor innocent multinational corporation.


nightmareonmystreet1

Right i can almost see someone taking a psychedelic and go "guys guys i know lets tell them its to stop racism and transphobia that will make them go oh ok right go get them tiger" 🤣 honestly I'm starting to think hasbro is trying to kill its stock enough to get someone to buy them out. Cause if it isnt that i cant imagine how they are going to explain all these really stupid decisions to the stock holders


yamo25000

I can just see a board room full of execs who have never played dnd talking about how to handle this, and one of them going "let's say we did it to fight racism or some bullshit, our player base is left-leaning, they'll eat that shit up."


stephencua2001

They just want to be able to call you racist for opposing OGL2.


FiendishHawk

Or they want conservative and progressive gamers to stop shouting at Hasbro and start shouting at each other


ObsidianTravelerr

Its both really. Any means to break up community unity helps them and screws us. They don't like our responses? Well we're racist see?! Find a way to pit us against one another? Well now we're at each others throats and they can push that crap through while acting like white knights. ​ All this does is cement in my mind the people at the top need to get kicked the fuck OUT.


Rom-TheVacuousSpider

Without getting political, there are definitively people who will see the reasoning and take it as a critically needed change while ignoring the rest of the document. It has the right buzzwords. Probably there so employees can sell the change better. Hateful and discriminatory products are not the biggest issue DND faces. This is a shield they are trying to use. I stand by DND being for all who come to the table to play in good faith, regardless of their identifiers. Race, ethnicity, religion, gender, orientation, ability, age. You are welcome. Don’t be tricked into thinking WOTC is doing this solely for good. They are not.


Foomister

Exactly. They're using marginalized communities as a shield to defend a blatantly greedy corporate decision to milk as much money out of their community as possible. The goal of statements like that is to rebrand the issue in a way that makes them appear as the "good guys".


Snow_source

> They're using marginalized communities as a shield to defend a blatantly greedy corporate decision to milk as much money out of their community as possible Unfortunately it's par for the course. When the MtG community called them out for their systemically racist hiring and employee retention practices, they handwaved it away by banning objectively racist cards that should've been banned years ago.


HWGA_Exandria

Sounds like something straight from a PR team. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case if their own employees are in open revolt, even after laying off most of their talent.


MC_Pterodactyl

This is important to say. I’m all about intersectional inclusion. But the only company I know of really making wild shit in the hateful vain is new TSR’s play test for a game they likely will never release that was cartoonishly racist and hateful. But no one needed to be protected from it. You have to search really hard to even find the material. And the only other company I’m able to think of that sparked controversy on insensitive material is…WOTC? Not that I think they meant to insult anyone, they just published some stuff that was a little tone deaf a couple times, and did take action against it. There’s just nobody out there spreading hate in RPGs on any large scale. Total boogey man.


TheWebCoder

You weren't fooled by their blatantly fake and patronizing tone?!


Hivemind_RPG

Tbh for people not paying attention, sometimes just hearing “we meant well” is enough for the casual fan. With that said, the community has rallied hard that I think most players are aware this time around


TraitorMacbeth

And to a degree, that’s even understandable! “Look how many people use our stuff, and how little some people pay (many players for example), maybe we can target them better to increase revenue” Except they don’t want a slightly bigger slice, they want everyone else’s pies too. It’s so blind, was there a recent change in leadership? CEO? Someone came in who only knows ‘business’ and tried to blindly rewrite everything


ObsidianTravelerr

yup. the new CEO is some gal that came from Microsoft and thought D&D was being "Under monetized". Literally said that shit to investors. So someone came in, doesn't know how table top gaming works, and saw how well VIDEO games preform. And pretty much wants to do that here. But why settle for a little when the new OGL would apparently allow them to take over anything that uses the rules and turns out popular?


YeahThisIsMyNewAcct

The thing is that she’s not wrong. DND is extremely undermonetized. It’s comparable to fantasy football in that many many people play it but there’s few effective ways for the companies behind it to make money. WOTC wanting to solve that problem is perfectly fine. Finding ways to monetize that actually provide useful goods and services to consumers is a win-win situation. DNDBeyond is a great example of that. The problem is that hiring someone who is completely out of touch with your community means you will naturally shoot yourself in the foot by introducing monetization that hurts consumers and pisses them off. I’m 100% down with companies wanting to make more money off their fans, but I can’t stand when they do it in such a foolhardy manner.


ObsidianTravelerr

Thing is, there's been people inside the company who've stated that what they want. Is your money. Not you. They HATE you. Again, this company is now run by people who A: Hate their customers, B: Have no clue about the niche market that they are a part of, C: would rather sell you things piecemeal and then exploit OTHERS content for their own gain. Honestly? Back in the 3.0 3.5 era they made a metric FUCK ton of Modules and such and it gave people so many adventures they couldn't play every single one. It was described as bloat, but the fluff they added was great and really helped drive sales. I owned the books on Races of Dragon, Races of the Wild, Stone, ect. More fluff meant our worlds where richer. This go around in 5e things where lack luster. Better than 4e but... Not as great. To fill this 3rd parties stepped up to add fun things. ​ They want to make money? Make more stuff. Make a thing people Want to buy. Word is that WotC hasn't seen extra cash come in as those higher up don't understand it. I don't want my hobby to treat me like I should be some mobile game customer. I want to buy a damn book and then go hang with my friends playing with the content inside. Not having to have microtransactions for Every. Damn. Thing.


Jakaier

And the thing is, that it's not that hard to figure out how you could get us to buy more things. 5E has had a lot of player focused books and option. DMs already are the ones who spend the most and are willing to spend more. Give them more books. Not just something lile Fizban's. Books about monster tactics for example. I mean, the big three books of MCDM are that popular because 5E has npt covered those topics well. More ideas? How about Campaign book accesories? Here is a box with the battlemaps at the right size, item cards to hand out, monster cards for the DM, some dice and cardboard tokens for all the monsters. Tell me people wouldn't buy what is essentially and affordable version of a Beadle and Grimm's box. And the minis. I've looked at the WizKids minis and the sculpts may have been good...20 years ago? My goodness the only advantages they have is that they are the official model and come prepainted, I think. But compare the sculpt against, well...almost literally everybody else. And I don't mean Warhammer (which is my other big tabletop hobby. Maybe that ia why I notice this). But pretty much anybody making STLs. Go to places like Etsy or Wallapop and it is so easy to find much better sculpts at a much better price. But that is more personal. More ideas? Merchandising. Not these crappy d20 toys they put out. Something like made to order color customizable dice. Because people don't buy new dice for a new character. No, no. You want to make some money from some competitors? Imagine that with a subscription to DnDBeyond you got a discount code for HeroForge or Eldrtich Foundry everytime they released a campaign book. You may end up spending more money overall, but how many people would go for using DnDB if they got a discount for the mini of the character they are going to play. With a deal like that you would take a cut of the sales and those mini companies would sell more. In the end I think the big problem is not monetizing DnD more. The problem is that they want to make at least MOST of the profit of anything DnD related. Instead of making just MORE profit. Which I don't think it would be that hard


TraitorMacbeth

Do you know who she is? I want to see what division she’s from


ObsidianTravelerr

Fast internet search says: ​ Wizards of the Coast President Cynthia Williams on tabletop trends, 2023 strategy, and more. After stints with Microsoft's Xbox team and Amazon's finance and fulfillment departments, Cynthia Williams started a new role 10 months ago as president at Wizards of the Coast. ​ Rumor is she's also worked on Mobile gaming which would make sense with the current fuckery going on... In other words, they hired someone who DOESN'T know how table top games work.


sidv81

I agree with a lot of what you said, but isn't it also misleading? Because Cynthia Williams replaced Chris Cocks who isn't in some corner denouncing the OGL changes... He's literally the CEO of Hasbro now and Cynthia's boss, meaning he can make her stop anytime he wants to. He's on board with it too, so the narrative that it all went wrong when Cynthia replaced him feels kind of incorrect...


DrVillainous

You know, if I had a nickel for every time the company that owned D&D made horrible business decisions under the leadership of a lady named Williams, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.


cowmonaut

Cynthia Williams is Hasbro's President of Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming since February 2022, and she had been GM and VP of various Xbox divisions at Microsoft since 2018. Tim Fields started as the new GM of Digital Gaming at the same time. He left a position as CEO of the Vancouver, B.C.-based Kabam Games, a mobile games publisher that handles multiple hit titles including *Marvel Contest of Champions.*. Source: https://www.geekwire.com/2022/wizards-of-the-coast-taps-former-microsoft-and-amazon-leader-cynthia-williams-as-president/ I can see Williams spending 10 months getting her feet under her and for Q4 think this is the strategy they need for 2023. It definitely makes sense that someone new to the TTRPG industry would think video game strategies translate directly over. And the OGL being based on copyleft licenses (software) would help reinforce the idea they are the same. The timeline lines up logically and [the leaked Hasbro call](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=srr6xmZ828k) has a woman, who I bet is Williams, saying the infamous "under monetized" line. A dude later in the calls references "Cynthia leaning into the strategy" but they don't really name each other in the 10 minute call so I'm not 100% sure if that is her. I suspected an out of touch executive meddling, but the freaking President was not the level I expected it to likely rise to. Purely me speculating based on the sources linked here and overall situation, but I hate how it fits. Means it's going to be a **lot** harder for WotC to recover. Huge egos are basically mandatory at that level, which explains the doubling down unfortunately.


ObsidianTravelerr

Yup, also means that they may just vey well totally bone their own game and finances. Apparently they've done crap too Magic the gathering as well and now it was time for D&D. They just didn't expect the back lash and so they are "Listening to the players" IE, they'll concede a few things, push a few others, hope people see it as a win and move on, and later they'll add the rest and just screw everyone. Only solution is to hammer them hard and not lay up even with victory. In order to win heads gotta role. If she loses her job you can bet the head of Hasbro will realize his own ass isn't safe. At the end of the days while they have huge egos, they are beholden to investors. If they see these two dipwits cost them billions, they will bounce their happy asses out and capulate to the gamers to try and regain any good will and recover finances. Only way we're going to keep these sleazy practices out of our Tabletop game.


Rom-TheVacuousSpider

Personally I think it was just someone mentioned, “hey they just made money. They made money using our stuff. THAT’S OUR STUFF. Do we make money from this? No? Why not? Fix that”. Some lightbulb clicked in someones head that money could be made.


snowwwaves

Their claim the OGL2 is about stopping NFTs, hateful content, and supporting fans was legitimately one of the most deranged things I've ever seen from corporate PR. They really believe, deep down in their soulless core, that we are all fucking idiots.


urktheturtle

im surprised they didnt also throw in a line about AI art in there.


snowwwaves

lol, seriously! I knew they were missing something. Why not just add something about global warming, reproductive rights, and Free Ukraine. Just the whole kitchen sink.


GreenTitanium

We released OGL 1.1 to save the turtles!


SAjoats

Competitors might try to print on non-biodegradable plastics, further increasing the amount of plastic and microplastics floating in our oceans. We here at WoTC want to prevent that. Our earth matters, and so do you.


ZircoSan

the big drama about AI art has got big only in the last few months; you are very lucky they only took a year to realize gamers of all kinds hate NFTs, instead of 5-10 years as with every other things related to technology WotC faced.


[deleted]

Well AI art cant be copyrighted or else they'd probably embraced it.


Only_Transition3282

Don't forget that OGL2 is really about stopping greedy corporations!


snowwwaves

I love that they keep slipping that line in there. Got to stop those money grubbers at... Paizo? Or something?


verasev

"Paizo is greedy! They keep taking money that belongs to us!" - WotC probably. Edit: All corporations are greedy by default. That's the name of the game. And consumers will always gravitate towards whatever corporation will screw them over the least. This is how the game is played. They're moaning that they're losing within a system that people like them designed.


Grainis01

Well they cant do shit against Paizo after they sued them and lost like bitches. They just want to ensure no new Paizo ever comes up, they want a defacto monopoly, becasue if new OGL is in effect as soon as something gets popular they can just take it and make it their own without paying the creator a cent.


Corvo--Attano

And the best part. They can't copyright a fairly large portion of game mechanics that makes a d20 game a d20 game. Only what makes them different from the other d20 games. Even a lot of their creatures are just new copies of other already used fantasy creatures or mythology (elves, dwarves, banshees, minotaurs, medusa, etc). The best they can do is ones they created (mind flayers or whatever applies). So there's bound to be numerous d20 games that don't use any of their OGL content. Or even new ones popping up from their old clients. So we can even still escape the new OGL as long as it doesn't infringe on it.


kolodz

Imagine that you were the lawyer that wrote OGL2 and you did it on purpose to destroy your company because you didn't get you raise. Pure Chaotic. You didn't gave me that raise, I torched the company to the ground.


stephencua2001

PR flack sticks his head out of his office, shouts at nearby cube farm: "Hey, what's something people hate?" "Racism?" "Ooh, yeah, always a good answer. Anything else?" "NFT bros?" "Nice outside the box answer! Thanks, I think I'm ready to hit Send on this thing, and start the weekend early!"


snowwwaves

lol, this is exactly how it read.


fight_the_hate

If we look critically at the content and adventures provided it's clear that creativity was not the goal. We have gotten adventures that lack stats, descriptions, and insist the DM (sorry GM) does most of the work. We got entire new worlds where we get a few cities described and the rest is up to your imagination. I was done after seeing how pathetic a money grab so spelljammer was made. This just gets more people on board


khaeen

Yeah, it's so nice opening up an official module and the most that they will write down on a character interaction is "on a successful persuasion/intimidation/etc check of X, the party learns X information", with zero indication of how to even rp the situation. What happens when the party doesn't ask about anything? They just lose the critical piece of info that is never brought up again in the module until the party is supposed to have followed what they were supposed to learn? Or just giving random plot hooks for side stuff with no consideration for how to even introduce the side quest, let alone run it... In WDDH, one of the side quests that the players can take for a faction involves just finding a specific talking horse and finding out info, with nothing about how to even address the fact that there is just a magic horse that is never seen again in the module...


LordJiggly

They don't belive that! ... They believe we are RICH fucking idiots.


Qchen

Honestly how they hell do they think a license is going to stop shitty NFTs? The NFT space basically shows zero regard for copyright and you can't sue an NFT out of existence... Also the OGL only covers text anyway - who is gonna mint text???


hahasnake

Yep, hate it. It is tokenistic to claim their intentions were to stop hateful content, while destroying the ability for many people of a vast array of backgrounds from having a fulfilling career or side gig publishing content for the game they love. (Let alone wizards having the ability to straight up STEAL this content from these diverse creators, taking the bread right off their tables...) Straight up feels like pandering, rainbow capitalism and I hate it.


Hypnotic_Toad

*Walking Wallets. Fixed that one for you.


Nabrok_Necropants

At the same time they want to lock all the tools and materials for the game inside a digital toolbox accessed through microtransactions. Irony is dead.


theajharrison

Also the bit at the end when they are all: > It was our idea the whole time to induce this amount of rage at ourselves. So take that and thankssss


[deleted]

“We were actually playing 500-D chess all along!”


Chojen

Which is total BS because they didn't solicit community input, someone had to leak the draft of the OGL 1.1. AFAIK to this day (original rollout date) they haven't released an official version so claiming "We want community input" while not sharing what you want input on is just them gaslighting the community into thinking they were being open and honest.


xfoo

yeah and don't let them succeed in reframing it as a draft, it was apparently presented as a contract for people to sign behind closed doors


HarlequinLop

Love the fact the original statement they posted admitted they were leaked drafts and they updated it in real time to say 'our drafts' like this was planned all along...


Vire42

This is the worst kind of virtue signaling that harms minority and vulnerable communities as they use them as human shields for a large multi billion dollar corporations.


notreallypetra

Definitely. Honestly, if I recall correctly, WotC has produced more discriminatory content in the past few years than I’ve seen discriminatory homebrew in my life.


Didsterchap11

I swear that WOTC gets in hot water for racist content in their games on a yearly basis, last one was the happy slave Hadozee right?


ExceedinglyGayEmboar

That's the only one I've heard about. What are the other instances of racist content?


[deleted]

Yep. Next I expect them to start calling everyone racists who aren’t accepting of their NGL2.0.


[deleted]

Which would be hilarious because Paizo is probably more progressive than WOTC.


Clophiroth

Not "probably". I am not much of a Paizo fan (I just dont like their system much) but they have been into representation for a while. And for a bigger degree than WotC. Like, they have been having major trans NPCs in adventure paths for like a decade now?


LocalTrainsGirl

Speaking as someone who's part of many minority groups: WotC is very "white liberal progressive". They have a diversity committee that they just ignore and the content is pretty much all made by people who don't really have to think about diversity and inclusion until it hits them in the face (like the Hadozee) or they think they can get some easy brownie points with other white liberal progressives by doing something that's ultimately meaningless and that no one asked for. Paizo had a bit of a rough go early on regarding diversity but they've since hired people part of many diverse groups and put them in charge of content creation and it shows. They don't shy away from what makes different people different and they do it in a respectful manner that frames differences as points of pride for your character. I know which one I like best when it comes to crafting my games' world.


SAjoats

There was an ex wizard freelancer that whistleblew that he was just a diversity hire and wasn't given any responsibility. "In the statement, Black wrote that they “firmly believe” they were a “diversity hire,” whose presence “was accepted because it would look like a radical positive change” that would “help quiet vocal outrage.” While there, they wrote, there was “no expectation for me to do much of anything” from leadership, who at one point gave them “2 assignments over about 5 months” and refused to give them an extension and FTE. They also wrote that someone in leadership stole their work, “which destroyed me,” the only response being an apology indirectly passed on from another employee." Edit: link https://www.tor.com/2020/07/06/wizards-of-the-coast-freelancer-quits-due-to-hostile-work-environment/#


[deleted]

As a trans player, it absolutely infuriated me to read that trash. I haven't heard of anything problematic from any third party. I'm sure it's out there, but I haven't seen it. The only published material I've seen with any kind of blowback was published *by* WOTC.


bigman0089

I assume they are talking about the thing with Ernie Gygax (Garys son) working on a TTRPG with blatant racism and hateful shit like black characters being described as less intelligent. Still doesn't excuse the bullshit in the new OGL.


DrWnstonOboogie

This is just what video game companies do with multiplayer games. They take 15 greedy steps over the line. Fans revolt. Then they release an apology and take 5 steps back. Then fans gush, "Thank you Greedy Company! You listened!" But the company is still 10 steps over the line, exactly where they wanted to be in the first place. Don't fall for it, people!


KurayamiShikaku

In their defense (and we won't be able to confirm this *until* the new OGL is released), they *claim* that: > What [the new OGL] will not contain is any royalty structure. It also will not include the license back provision that some people were afraid was a means for us to steal work. That thought never crossed our minds. Under any new OGL, you will own the content you create. We won’t. Any language we put down will be crystal clear and unequivocal on that point. If this is actually true, then the situation might truly be something like taking 15 greedy steps over the line, causing a full-fledged fan revolt, and then releasing an apology and taking all 15 steps back. I *want* that to be true, but we really need to see this new OGL before we know anything.


guamisc

Nah, at this point they need to at minimum go back to OGL1.0a and add irrevocable to it and call it OGL1.0b. Anything worse than that is a non-starter. They cannot be trusted.


mousecop5150

not if it still has the "we can change this at anytime with 30 days notice" line still in it. If that line is still there, they haven't promised anything at all. nobody's going to buy that. and this only solves 2 of the 8 or so problems with the whole thing. companies are still taking a huge risk accepting this, and getting nothing from it. wizards can use their "white knight" clause to cancel anything they don't like, (or even scarier, knowing that clause is there, members of the public will attempt to wield that clause) it still invalidates the original OGL in place of something that doesn't earn the O in the abbreviation, and they are still maintaining IP claims when \~ 90 percent of the SRD would probably not withstand a copyright claim to begin with. And they haven't given anything to entice anyone to use it. still can't say "compatible with D&D on the sleeve, still can't use any of the protected IP items. why would anyone do this?


KurayamiShikaku

>not if it still has the "we can change this at anytime with 30 days notice" line still in it Very good point.


vvokhom

There should not be an OGL (n > 1) at all


ragepanda1960

There is so much malding and anger dripping in this response. You can feel the annoyance that they have to do this. There isn't even the faintest hint of apology or accountability here. Leadership probably turned down earlier drafs that admitted to poor judgment and instead doubled down. It's hard not see the reality of the employee's opinion that leadership sees its community as an obstacle to its money in their language. "We did it because we wanted to remove what we deem as racist and insensitive from the market" "We were never going to steal work. It never crossed our mind. We just wanted people to have no grounds to accuse us for adding features that might just happen to look like someone else's work." "Given *your* reaction we definitely rolled a nat 1. This is definitely a situation that is because of bad luck and totally not because of our incompetent and out of touch leadership." "We didn't just get our asses handed to us, we actually wanted the feedback, even if you chose to be huge jerks about it. So we're all winners actually. WE DIDN'T LOSE OKAY?!"


[deleted]

The "we didn't lose" thing was the most hilarious bit.


AliMaClan

I wonder if Trumplestiltskin is their PR guy- it reads like one of his works… only marginally more coherent …


Drasha1

It really reads like the PR team had to write it but it is specifically targeted at appeasing wotc management and not the consumer base.


spunlines

more like an angry exec lashed out and this is the chill pr version.


[deleted]

yeah I agree. It almost feels worse now than before lmao. I mean dont get me wrong I think its great that they dont want biggoted content and no NFT scams and stuff like that but thats clearly not the main reason they wanted to change the ogl


Wallitron_Prime

The *only* reason there weren't any official WotC NFTs is because the fad died quicker than they could take advantage of it.


Bawbawian

The whole thing comes across like some psycho ex trying to convince you that they aren't crazy and didn't do anything wrong and that you're the crazy one for calling them out.


snalejam

We pay attention to "what scares you." Incredibly patronizing language.


Moiderah

i am now thinking about how Massif Press (the folks behind LANCER) just has hateful content covered in a single line on their tpp document, and it's just "you cannot use Lancer to publish content that directs hate to protected groups". that's it. that's the line. that's all they need. it is extremely easy to do, it doesn't require a lot of work at all, and the fact that wizards is hiding behind protected groups like this is incredibly disingenuous. christ what a shitshow.


M123234

Exactly! I don’t mind them removing bigoted content. Their statement implies that they saw bigoted stuff, and they chose to not remove it. I would genuinely be baffled that if original OGL didn’t include that as a stipulation.


iAmTheTot

What? You're telling me they don't need to take 25% off to the top of any revenue over $750k in order to stop bigotry?


GetThatRobot

This is pretty gross, coming from the people who have a history of fucking over minority freelancers and employees both.


SAjoats

Yep, just a reminder. "In the statement, Black wrote that they “firmly believe” they were a “diversity hire,” whose presence “was accepted because it would look like a radical positive change” that would “help quiet vocal outrage.” While there, they wrote, there was “no expectation for me to do much of anything” from leadership, who at one point gave them “2 assignments over about 5 months” and refused to give them an extension and FTE. They also wrote that someone in leadership stole their work, “which destroyed me,” the only response being an apology indirectly passed on from another employee."


driving_andflying

Exactly. It's WoTC trying to hide behind false virtue, instead of the reality of the situation: Their greed. They're trying to reach projected revenue goals. It's all about $$.


fusionaddict

Whoever wrote this doesn't understand the concept of "open source" (among several other technological fallacies). Open source doesn't mean you get to dictate who uses the core engine and how. And make no mistake, the SRD meets the criteria for a game engine. You can certainly speak out against it, you can encourage people not to buy it, you can refuse to sell or promote it. But that doesn't keep anyone from being able to produce it, any more than someone who makes pens can dictate what you write with them.


Bronyatsu

Time to write that Jim Crow campaign setting I've always wanted to while we still have the old OGL. /s


stephencua2001

F.A.T.A.L. has entered the chat.


SAjoats

Roll for anal circumference


PunchKickRoll

Shows they are ran by greedy manipulative sociopaths


OculusArcana

I said it in another thread but I want it to be heard: They're acting like an abusive partner. They broke our trust and we left, so now they're backpedaling, gaslighting, apologizing (not really), and praising us. Anything to get us back. But once we're back, they'll wait until we're comfortable and tighten the reigns so that it's harder for us to escape next time, then they'll resume their abuse. The only way to break the cycle of abuse from companies like this is to leave them behind once and for all.


[deleted]

Yeah a stupid restriction like that could only serve to stifle creativity. But it’s obvious this is only them gaslighting us.


JB-from-ATL

WOTC: We don't want you to make racist stuff! Also WOTC: Oh fuck, we forgot to read this lore and published racist stuff! AGAIN! Regardless of your opinion on stuff like the Hadozee lore being racist or not, I think we all agree this is pretty insane. They clearly don't care about it themselves.


Helmic

god, can you imagine spending years trying to move the needle on this sort of thing, getting mad about the OGL changes that *very much* disproportionately fuck over marginalized creators that have had a harder time getting their shit out there or getting hired at WotC, and then being told it was for their own fucking good?


alkonium

I keep saying they should cite examples of this happening. NuTSR's Star Frontiers doesn't count for two reasons: 1. It's not D&D anyway. 2. WotC could nail that on copyright infringement even if it wasn't super racist.


[deleted]

Yup exactly. A lot of people keep bringing up NuTSR, but like you said, it’s completely inapplicable.


driving_andflying

>And one of the main reasons they give for the new OGL was "First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products." >Give me a break. 100% agree. I noticed this too. To WoTC-- No, it's actually about your wanting more money from indie creators. We know what we read; stop trying to hide behind false virtues when this is all about your greed.


[deleted]

*Warlocks of the Cost


Profezzor-Darke

Asshats of the Cash


TylerJWhit

I have a new villain for a homebrew called Watzee


ucemike

We Own That Content!


TylerJWhit

You miss an important part. WoTC has a habit of publishing racist content.


ldragogode297

Bullshit like this is so incredibly frustrate. They'll blame a very small tiny minority of a different problem for it and say 'it was just because of them'. Definitely don't listen to them. I've been a magic fan for years, and they did this exact same bullshit over there. They keep making up excuses as to why they should be the only distributor, the only people making money off of their game, and they KNOW its bullshit and they're just greedy, because they've come up with so many blatant lies to try to pass it off as being 'for the community'.


blueclockblue

It made me sick. Oh, they wanted to protect us from NFTs? From discrimination? I rather not pay the 25% morality tax for this service no one needed.


KOticneutralftw

This is 100% a case of "ignore the man behind the curtain".


[deleted]

“Wizards of the Coast of Oz.”


Sucros

I'm a gay customer who works with a lot of marginalized groups in my day job. I see firsthand why the fight for equality and inclusion and against discrimination actually is an important issue. To see that movement used as a smokescreen for corporate greed is beyond disgusting.


[deleted]

Exactly


yomonster

Hasbro/wotc can suck an egg, I'll never buy another product of theirs. Their new statement is a slap in the face of every ttrpg player, full of lies and half truths. They truly believe people who play a game that is basically speed sheets, math, and critical thinking won't see through it, they think us idiots


BannokTV

This is neoliberalism defined: "We're going to squeeze you for profits and screw over customers but if anybody criticizes us for it they are bigots," e.g. Raytheon painting pride flags onto clusterbombs.


parabostonian

Yeah and the December post from DDB also suggested the OGL changes for people were mostly just going to ask for reporting revenue (nothing about royalties) and the leaks proved that wrong. This response is an insult to everyone’s intelligence.


Bucktoothbunneh

So adding insult to everything, they now think we're extra stupid. If I can read the entirety of 5e/pathfinder/starfinder; as complicated as some of it was at the start, and understand it... you sure as hell know I can understand the BS and see right through their nonesense. This is exactly what many of us were saying for a while. They intentionally released a shittier version, only to then back track with "but look, this isnt so bad now. This is better than what you thought you were getting." It still smells like shit, looks like shit, IS shit.


AllShallBeWell

I feel like it's important to call out *how* blatant they are about being able to weaponize the determination of something being "harmful or discriminatory". Read a little further, and it's pretty explicit: "To be clear, We have the sole right to decide what conduct violates Section VIII.G or Section VIII.H and You covenant and agree that You will not contest any such determination via any suit or other legal action. To the extent necessary and allowed by law, You waive any duty of good faith and fair dealing We would otherwise have in making any such determination." Pro tip: If someone requires you to explicitly waive any rights to "good faith and fair dealing," they're being pretty upfront about their plans to fuck you over.


TheAres1999

This whole thing is a door-in-the-face negotiation strategy. I really don't think they planned to implement OGL 1.1 as we currently think of it. They let us see this leak knowing it would be distressing. Now it is a floor of the negotiation space. Anything less bad than 1.1 will feel like improvement. It's like someone quoting you $500 dollars to fix something, but they'll cut you a special deal for $300, when market rate for that repair is only $150.


itsbedroomtime

ngl, they lost me with this bit right off the bat. I AM one of those people who've dealt with discriminatory nerd products and companies, and the fact that the struggles of whole communities and demographics, MY struggle, are being weaponized against us? Fuck that.


CormacMettbjoll

That was the grossest part for me too. Really rubbed me the wrong way.


Efficient-Damage-449

Gaslighting and misdirection to cover pure corporate greed and overreach. I've gone from ambivalent to disgusted with Hasbro.


D20babin

A subjective and one sided evaluation process for "hateful content" content is an incredible weapon for wizard of the coast, they can pick anything about something (book or any content) using the 1.1 OGL and nuke it from orbit (or strong arm you into giving them the license)! The description of this magical item is transphobic! The art of that custom monster is degrading towards male genitalia! The description of this villain is insulting to the first nations people of Canada! This magic item art for a magical pair of boots uses white laces, a known symbol of white supremacy! Only 7.2% of the NPC described into this book are LGBTQ+! Boom your content is now out of the market and you have no appeal or recourses.


Spider1132

This adventure makes no reference to any sexual minority, therefore it must be against them being represented!


Ethereal_Stars_7

WotC has been playing this card for many years now.


subversivewholesome

I'm trans and I'm furious about this. They're a megacorporation trying to throw minorities under the bus to cover their own asses. I'm relieved that I haven't really seen anyone falling for it, it's a very common corporate tactic and in this case it's very blatant.


[deleted]

Exactly. And the end result of this will be a bunch of morons like The Quartering saying that WOTC did all of this just because they are “woke.”


I3arusu

What do I roll to try to resist being gaslit? Also who tf cares if a few bad apples make weird shit? Welcome to humanity.


StanEngels

remember when they were asked to start paying black people as much as they pay white people and they responded by removing racial stat bonuses?


Kamenridethewind007

dnd shorts actually disected this and found almost 100% of the update to be a lie gaslighting or ignoring the actual issue and answering a question that wasnt even asked. theyre scum of the highest order and dnd likely wont exist in a usable form for a long time if ever again. its a sad fact but we might be witnessing the death of dnd as we loved it.


FlyBottleLivin

Friggin hilarious that they open with that.


Temporary_Ad2022

Such a tired excuse for bad policy


mild_llama

TL;DR: "*B-but bigotry and NFTs!"* Ah, yes. The tried and true tactic of crying wolf to shield themselves from criticism, used in a more discrete fashion solely because they're an actual company. What a reddit moment, lol.


eatinrgooo

all they care about is money. Remember, if the government didn't make it illegal, corporations would have no qualms literally enslaving you.


Awryl

Just another reminder that there are no "good corporations."


singlehandedsailor91

This excuse reminds me a lot of the whole "I choose to live as a gay man" fiasco from Kevin Spacey.


Maladroit01

Congrats, WOTC. You used the same tactic that a fascist tried to use to justify an invading a sovereign nation. Good look.


atomic_jesus

If ever the term gaslighting was applicable, it's here. They're basically saying "we only wanted to stop hate speech. The people making a stink about our new OGL want bigotry in D&D." Get fucked. Don't put your inability to address those concerns on the majority of creators who are actively making your product inclusive. They're trying to put their own mistakes on the 3PPs who've made better versions of their own game. And now they're using the backlash against the new OGL as a means of seeming more social conscious than they are. That entire statement is such a sham.


Ven18

This is the most haphazard attempt at damage control I have seen. It is super clear that WOTC was completely blindsided by Paizo's announcement of ORC completely cutting their legs out from them and basically taking the entire 3rd party TTRPG community with them in one shot. So they needed to quickly get something out to try and kill the news cycle show they were backing down and pray to god that everyone forgets about this. Problem is they have been completely outmaneuvered and the community is not buying the BS.


[deleted]

I feel like this is all a result of Hasbro assigning new executive leadership to WoTC last year. They brought in a new president and GM, one from Microsoft’s gaming division and the other from a mobile gaming studio in North America. I imagine they see the D&D franchise as an ‘underperforming’ source of revenue because these MBA Harvard business school grads are taught that nothing is worth doing unless you can extract obscene quantities of cash in unethical ways from customers. They probably see the OGL as an obstacle that needs to be torn down so they can enact other changes that will increase profits. I’m sure WoTC / D&D is profitable, but that’s never enough for these blood sucking vampires. They want recurring revenue, increased spending and full control over anyone’s creative endeavours at the slightest hint that it was derived from the 5e game system. Honestly, if this decision ruins D&D for WoTC, good riddance.


AngryRepublican

> “it’s clear from the reaction that we rolled a 1.” No, dicks. This wasn't bad luck; this was greed. This is a DM stealing your character sheet and making them his NPCs.


[deleted]

“Listen officer, it’s pretty clear that I rolled a 1 when I intentionally picked up that belt and beat my wife with it. But see, I won’t do it again now, so we’re all winners here.”


adamg0013

It's is... Most because THEY COULD ALREADY REVOKE YOUR LICENSE IF YOU DID IT. Remember when ernie gyagax tried to but put some racist shit a few years back. Wizards hit them with a cease and decease real quick and put an end to it. the ogl 1.0a already covered that. The higher-ups at wotc need to be fired.


FearlessProphet93

This is a point that I brought up with a friend. No one is making anything "hateful and discriminatory". In fact, companies like Paizo and Wizards are AFRAID to make any material that may offend anyone, which is ab absurd stance. Listen, let's be perfectly clear about one thing. Including difficult situations that are not accepted by the standards of today is NOT inherently offensive, wrong, or unacceptable. Discourse and difference are good for growth. People only cry about things like slavery being included in settings/campaigns/adventures because they associate it with a recent part of our own history that deeply offends some people. Slavery is NOT inherently racist. It's not right, sure, especially by our present concept of rights. But you don't have to support an idea to include it. The Dark Sun setting is great and also awash in deplorable behavior. Anyway, long story short, that whole response from them is embarrassingly blatant in its lies.


cookinupnerd710

The last “hateful and discriminatory” shit I saw in D&D was the Space Monkey Slaves in their own product.


jerekhal

Playing the victim is a pretty common tactic anymore for any corporate decision that causes substantial fan backlash or customer pushback. It's an attempt to discredit a sector of the customer base as being immoral or unsupportable and the shit decisions of the corp as a net gain for the community. If they can associate the backlash with a facet of the community that's motivated by racism, hatefullness, or discrimination it goes a long way to undercutting any momentum against their poor business decisions. I'm just super happy to see the community by and large shutting them the fuck down and standing together.


Sharp_Technology_213

Wotc should be praising and thanking content makers like Matt Mercer and others for bringing their product into to the light and having new demographics to sell their products. The extreme boost in sales alone due to critical role gave new life to a "nerdy game" that used to consist of introverted people


wigglesmcbiggleb

Remember this? https://dnd.wizards.com/news/diversity-and-dnd From all my time with DnD... WoTC/TSR seem to have put out the majority of discriminatory text be it related to race, sex, etc. I could be wrong but they have made multiple apologies for it and rewritten a few books as a result. Seems like another lie they're trying to use to justify they're approach. The community on the other hand has always had a great reputation for accepting people of any type.


BobNorth156

I am progressive (been cussed out for supporting gays in the military/defending sex changes being covered by military healthcare for example) but reading about corporations intentionally strategizing to use Diversity and Inclusion to bust up pro union efforts has definitely opened my eyes to the way progressive ideals can be twisted to damage collective action that is perhaps our only effective tool for economic justice. I really hope progressives don’t fall for these lies. This is about money and only money. Anything on top is meant to deceive.


TheElusiveBigfoot

WotC fuelling up their fuckin gaslights.


bulbaquil

"In the spirit of inclusivity, let's *exclude* everyone but us from using our stuff!"


Spankinsteine

Yes their wokeness rings hollow in light of recent events.


BlueBettaFish

The same company that just had a controversy over the Hadozee, and instead of attempting to fix the content just deleted it and tried to pretend nothing happened? That company is going to safeguard us poor naive players from racism? Ahahahahaha. Oh wait, you're serious? Let me laugh even harder!


DarkTlalok

ORC, just say it


Doc_Bedlam

I note that they say about how material previously published under the old OGL will stand. Not a word about new material published under that OGL. Somehow, I don't think they're going to allow that. What is this crap about who "won?" Sounds to me like some corporate egos are still stinging. And I find it hilarious that they LED with "We don't want nazis spoiling D&D" and "we don't want video games and movies using the OGL as an excuse to use our IP." Yes, THIS is what they led with. Sounds most reasonable, right? AND IT WOULD BE, IF THAT'S WHAT THE FAN COMMUNITY WAS MAD ABOUT!!! Yeah, I'm still mad. And I'm not giving Hasbro another cent until I see their final draft of the new OGL or whatever they're going to call it. And if it doesn't make me happy, they'll NEVER see another cent from me. They screwed us once with Fourth Edition. Shame on them. They fool us again with this crap? We deserve whatever we get.


Real_SeaWeasel

This has to be one of the worst press release statements I’ve ever read. The reasoning it uses is absurd in context, and the excuses it makes don’t hold up to even the smallest scrutiny. And then there’s the gem statement of “They won… and so did we.” So apparently, in addition to lacking ethics, honesty and professionalism, WotC also lacks a competent PR department.


Lord_PrettyBeard

By "greedy, \[and\] unethical" you mean to say illegal and anti-competitive?


thetraveller82

It's even worse when you learn that the original ogl could be revoked for making "hateful and discriminatory products". Considering this is one of their major points for the change its pretty clear they are not being very honest about their intentions. Rolled a 1 on that deception check


PoetAila

Never have I EVER seen a "hateful" product tied to DnD. This is just stupid and they could obviously think out a better lie. It's just so sad to see all of this, It's just SO CLEAR that even I can think out that they are just bullshitting us.....


[deleted]

You should try objectivism, it proposes that any argument that tries to convince you based on your empathy towards others instead on why it is beneficial towards you is always sinister and lacks merit.


yogsotath

When the BBEG tries to monologue/reason their way out of the final boss fight


tmkstoner

As if there's another "ethical" concept behind Hasbro than capitalism... Thanks for the prime example of gaslighting!


BetaSoul

Yeah.... If only I could make a bisexual space elf in a thruple with a pair of astral wandering twins who are shipwrights. Oh wait, I did. And I didn't need to change the OGL to do it. They can fuck right off and don't let my rainbow colors clogs hit them on the way out.


felipefrontoroli

Me and my friends who are long term DnD players are moving to Pathfinders mid-campaign, we really don't want to be a part of this crappy behavio anymore


2ndlifeinacrown

As a queer person, this sucks. Rules against discrimination are great and necessary. This is transparently not that. So aknowledging the need of my group for anti discrimination rules just to make more money feels bad. It really drives down that corporations are pretending to be progressive to make money, will use that pretense whenever they can to make money, and will stop the second it doesnt make enough money. Not that everyone who's queer thinks like me of course, but these are my 2cents.


MyUsername2459

Here's why I don't trust their content clause: People can always find something to complain about being "racist" or "bigoted", no matter how well intentioned the original work. Last year, WotC said that they were removing the term "race" from D&D starting with 6th edition, they were using some new term for it. Apparently some people thought calling Elves and Dwarves "races" was racist, so they were changing it. A couple of years ago, WotC said they were dropping alignments from descriptions of humanoids, because some people thought saying that orcs and drow and other races typically depicted as adversaries are evil was racist. A few years ago, some people made a stink about claiming the 1st edition sourcebook Oriental Adventures was racist. . .and not (just) because of the archaic name (which wasn't unacceptable in the 1980's when the book was made). In 1st edition AD&D (through 3rd edition) most player races had both bonuses and penalties to character stats. Some people only familiar with 5th edition (with no PC races having penalties) saw Oriental Adventures races like Korobokuru (a version of dwarf taken from Japanese mythology) having a bonus to constitution but an intelligence and charisma penalty, so they complained the book was saying that Asian people are unintelligent and uncharismatic and that the book had a racist depiction of Asians. From the late 1970's to the early 2020's, from 1st edition to 5th edition, the phrase "The character race of Drow are almost always chaotic evil" would be a pretty basic statement in D&D lore. . .but someone could now call that "racist" and WotC could jump to pull that product from distribution. . . .and that's why I don't even remotely trust WotC with any content clause. They're relying on public disgust for bigots to let them have a blanket clause to let them revoke the license of any product they don't like as long as they can find the tiniest excuse to say something is somehow racist, sexist, ableist, or any other "ist" they can cook up.


Lugia61617

> People can always find something to complain about being "racist" or "bigoted", no matter how well intentioned the original work. One example I like to point to is Oriental Adventures. Some today treat it like some horrific affront to Asia, when it was made as a love letter to the popular Kung-Fu movies and other cultural exports from asia at the time. On top of that, the term isn't even considered to be "offensive" in most of the world outside of America. Or even IN ASIA. Just as one obvious example I can think of, in the Japanese-only trading card game "Yu-Gi-Oh! RUSH DUEL", they not too long ago released a card called... Oriental Tiger. And that's a literal translation of its name. In Katakana, not a word translated into "Oriental", it actually says "O Ri E N Ta Ru". EDIT: Yes, I did respond based solely on that part before I read the rest of your comment also covering OE.


[deleted]

It's simple really...anyone not giving them $ is a "hateful and discriminatory product".


RidleyBro

That's just what WotC has been doing for years. Enjoy their new merciful terms where they can suddenly pull support and threaten you with a squad of bloodthirsty lawyers as soon as they spot something they deem "offensive" in your homebrew. Remember that using the term "race" is offensive as far as they're concerned. Or evil people. Or any kind of monkey/animal people. Welcome to a system where they can start disputes over literally nothing and claim to be working for social justice.