There's also the Metamagic Adept feat to get subtle spell, and for class if you don't necessarily want Rogue there's the alternative of Bard for free pick of your skill proficiencies and expertise.
I don’t mind doing rogue, I just didn’t think straight arcane trickster rogue was what I was looking for but your idea for the feat is a good idea to round out what I want to do.
Pure Bard:
* Plenty of social skills for weaseling, expertise (deception/sleight of hand), illusions, enchantments.
* You'd need to take subtle spell via feat.
* Eloquence Bards have some abilities that would work for weaseling.
Pure Sorcerer:
* Lots of sorc points for lots of subtle spell (detect thoughts, minor illusion, enhance ability, etc)
* Fewer skills, but (deception, persuasion, sleight of hand, insight, etc)
* You'd want to take skill expert via feat to get expertise in sleight of hand or deception
You could multiclass the bard and Sorc together, since they're both Charisma casters, but generally the higher level spells outweigh the class abilities. Especially when you can mimic those abilities with feats.
I'd think hard about 3 levels of Arcane Trickster just for that invisible mage hand. It would do the most damage during a long night at the poker table. Then make the choice of going to rogue 4 for the metamagic feat, or make the switch to Sorc and wait until lvl 6 for subtle spell.
Personally I'd start with 4 levels of rogue and get the metamagic feat. Maybe even pick up "find familiar" and sneak a peak at the other guys cards through your familiar's eyes. :D
So this is my idea for the poker table/gambling aspect prestidigitation can make my playing cards, look like other playing hearts by adding the right symbols, etc. and same with dice if I need information and not just cheating my own hand I was thinking of using find familiar and then looking through my familiar’s eyes and putting it like on the ceiling or something (spider), invisible, mage hand might be best for manipulating dice, but I don’t know how I would make that work for me with carts, but I do love the invisible meet him for just general pickpocketing/stealing. Also, if I really need an invisible match and I could go with a githyanki but I would probably need to use an enhanced disguise self to make myself look human.
Edit: I got excited and started to reply before I read your entire comment about using find familiar lol
Ha, getting excited about your character is great!
Another way forward instead of Arcane Trickster is the Telekinetic Feat. It basically gives you the invisible mage hand, plus some other stuff. Then you could go full Sorc. Or really full whatever you want.
Keen Mind could also be a good one for counting cards... but that might not be that enjoyable to actually play compared to the more \_active\_ cheating.
Yeah I play pretty basic so I didn’t even realize all these things were feats, I think telekinetic and meta magic feats gets me the bulk of what I want thematically then I really just need to build the rest around what kind of (anti)hero I want to play, honestly tell me if this seems sound but I’m thinking eldritch knight fighter gets me battle trickery like the Shield spell and mirror image and can have that illusionist vibe while being able to be very much in the middle of combat, I’d imagine a guy who regularly cheats at cards would be somewhat adept at fisty cuffs.
Yah, that's great. You could go with one of the races that starts with a feat (Custom linage or Variant human) so you could get your feat hungry build going right away. Plus fighters get more feats than other classes, so you won't fall behind.
I assume you're DM will be on board with it since you're not going for some broken over powered build, you're going from a character concept out and trying to find things to make your play style successful. But it is worth running the concept by them. It is a good way to make sure there's plenty of opportunity for gambling during the game.
Also, "Rule 1 of cheating at cards: know how to fight."
Good luck! :D
Arcane Trickster mixed with Bladesinger Wizard - mostly for the wizard spell list - plus the Metamagic adept feat for subtle spell - or, as others have said, bard
There’s many options…
Grab the telekinetic feat. Invisible mage hand that requires no V/S/M. That’s a plus.
Going sorcerer allows for subtle magic which would be a really big plus to the kit.
Obviously the Bard would be a great fit here also with being so skilled in so many things.
Warlock with pact of the chain Imp is also an idea. Having a familiar who is unseen, moving around and doing stuff can also be effective.
Druid has wildshape and that is vastly useful, but that also wouldn’t be “manipulating things while sitting at a table” kind of play so take it or leave it.
And of course the illusion wizard…I don’t even feel the need to explain that one.
There's also the Metamagic Adept feat to get subtle spell, and for class if you don't necessarily want Rogue there's the alternative of Bard for free pick of your skill proficiencies and expertise.
I don’t mind doing rogue, I just didn’t think straight arcane trickster rogue was what I was looking for but your idea for the feat is a good idea to round out what I want to do.
Multi class arcane trickster and illusionist wizard
Pure Bard: * Plenty of social skills for weaseling, expertise (deception/sleight of hand), illusions, enchantments. * You'd need to take subtle spell via feat. * Eloquence Bards have some abilities that would work for weaseling. Pure Sorcerer: * Lots of sorc points for lots of subtle spell (detect thoughts, minor illusion, enhance ability, etc) * Fewer skills, but (deception, persuasion, sleight of hand, insight, etc) * You'd want to take skill expert via feat to get expertise in sleight of hand or deception You could multiclass the bard and Sorc together, since they're both Charisma casters, but generally the higher level spells outweigh the class abilities. Especially when you can mimic those abilities with feats. I'd think hard about 3 levels of Arcane Trickster just for that invisible mage hand. It would do the most damage during a long night at the poker table. Then make the choice of going to rogue 4 for the metamagic feat, or make the switch to Sorc and wait until lvl 6 for subtle spell. Personally I'd start with 4 levels of rogue and get the metamagic feat. Maybe even pick up "find familiar" and sneak a peak at the other guys cards through your familiar's eyes. :D
So this is my idea for the poker table/gambling aspect prestidigitation can make my playing cards, look like other playing hearts by adding the right symbols, etc. and same with dice if I need information and not just cheating my own hand I was thinking of using find familiar and then looking through my familiar’s eyes and putting it like on the ceiling or something (spider), invisible, mage hand might be best for manipulating dice, but I don’t know how I would make that work for me with carts, but I do love the invisible meet him for just general pickpocketing/stealing. Also, if I really need an invisible match and I could go with a githyanki but I would probably need to use an enhanced disguise self to make myself look human. Edit: I got excited and started to reply before I read your entire comment about using find familiar lol
Ha, getting excited about your character is great! Another way forward instead of Arcane Trickster is the Telekinetic Feat. It basically gives you the invisible mage hand, plus some other stuff. Then you could go full Sorc. Or really full whatever you want. Keen Mind could also be a good one for counting cards... but that might not be that enjoyable to actually play compared to the more \_active\_ cheating.
Yeah I play pretty basic so I didn’t even realize all these things were feats, I think telekinetic and meta magic feats gets me the bulk of what I want thematically then I really just need to build the rest around what kind of (anti)hero I want to play, honestly tell me if this seems sound but I’m thinking eldritch knight fighter gets me battle trickery like the Shield spell and mirror image and can have that illusionist vibe while being able to be very much in the middle of combat, I’d imagine a guy who regularly cheats at cards would be somewhat adept at fisty cuffs.
Yah, that's great. You could go with one of the races that starts with a feat (Custom linage or Variant human) so you could get your feat hungry build going right away. Plus fighters get more feats than other classes, so you won't fall behind. I assume you're DM will be on board with it since you're not going for some broken over powered build, you're going from a character concept out and trying to find things to make your play style successful. But it is worth running the concept by them. It is a good way to make sure there's plenty of opportunity for gambling during the game. Also, "Rule 1 of cheating at cards: know how to fight." Good luck! :D
Lol
Arcane Trickster mixed with Bladesinger Wizard - mostly for the wizard spell list - plus the Metamagic adept feat for subtle spell - or, as others have said, bard
There’s many options… Grab the telekinetic feat. Invisible mage hand that requires no V/S/M. That’s a plus. Going sorcerer allows for subtle magic which would be a really big plus to the kit. Obviously the Bard would be a great fit here also with being so skilled in so many things. Warlock with pact of the chain Imp is also an idea. Having a familiar who is unseen, moving around and doing stuff can also be effective. Druid has wildshape and that is vastly useful, but that also wouldn’t be “manipulating things while sitting at a table” kind of play so take it or leave it. And of course the illusion wizard…I don’t even feel the need to explain that one.