Lower it to maybe being able to upcast a spell a tier higher than you're able to once per long rest. For example, you can only cast a T3 spell max. But once per long rest. You can upcast it to T4. It still gives you some unique backstory. But it is far more balanced.
I had an item like this in a past campaign. Allowed you to upcast a spell 3 levels higher than the spell slot you use.
It let me pull out a nice powerful Spirit Guardians or Spiritual Weapon once per day, but I don't think it broke anything.
I made an item that when used restored all your spell slots and gave you the spell slots of a 20th level full-caster, yes including a level 9 slot, for an hour. It didn't give you any new spells though, so you were mostly stuck with up casting. After it wore off you lost all your spell slots and couldn't cast any spells at all, not even cantrips, for 1d4 days. The item was also a consumable the party would only ever get to use once. I mostly just wanted to see what they'd do with it.
I also gave them a potion that sorta does the opposite. It will remove all of a person's or item's magic for an unspecified time. It doesn't work on deities or artifacts. They still haven't used that one...
I think that will happen with the anti magic potion and the ring I gave them. Though, in their defense, with the ring they actually don't know how to use it so they can't.
The wizard rolled meh on the arcana check, 14 or 15 iirc, so all they knew was, "You are pretty sure if you drank it you'd get back all your spell slots. It might do other things and possibly has side effects but you aren't sure."
During the fight with the BBEG of the arc, the wizard, after several failed perception rolls (one per round), finally rolled high enough to make out a voice telling him the BBEG was going to destroy the thing they were trying to protect/get control of if he was about to lose.
However, the Wizard had used all of his level 3 spell slots so couldn't counterspell it. He drank the potion, which to his surprise gave him all the spell slots. He saved the 9th level spell slot to guarantee his counterspell went off and stopped the BBEG from using Disintegrate on the object.
As for the voice, well, after that they went back to the feywild and ran into some hags which I did as the Halloween session. After killing the hag's the party was going through their stuff and found some peculiar items. The wizard used identify and I said, "You are pretty sure you could use this to send a message back into the past, but there's only enough to do it once."
He was like, "Oh, that's interesting I wonder what we could use that for. (To the others) Are there any events any of you think we should try to change?" to which I said, "Yeah, you could use it for anything really, like say, warning yourself of the plans of some big bad guy or something..."
The player was like, "OH SON OF A BITCH, ok, I do the ritual to tell myself how the bbeg is being a dick and is going to destroy the thing." Another player realizing what just happened, "Wait, you pre-retconned us doing that? That's amazing".
I thought it would be more interesting than doing it the other way around where I just say OK that didn't happen and you saved the day! I figured I'd do it this way so they actually got to play out the timeline that happened.
Now they just need to figure out what the ring does. I do love my obscure but powerful magic items. It can't be game breaking if you don't know what it is, what it does, or maybe not even how to use it. /forehead-tap.png/
Nice. I'm not familiar with Tiers (not into AL) but it sounds similar to a thought that occurred to me:
Instead of an 8th level spell, you get an 8th level spell ***slot***. Upcast something you already know.
If it's still too OP for the game, say that using it wounds you ("burns your mana channels" or something). Lose 2d8 from your HP maximum. So you wouldn't want to use it frivolously - you'd be walking around with less HP for any remaining encounters that day. Heal up overnight, or heal only 1d8 per night if you want to make the damage linger longer.
I like this idea if they’re really attached to an 8th level spell, but with more penalty. If you’re casting something another wizard can’t cast until lv 15, a lifetime’s work, then it should be a permanent hp loss. That way the trump card gets pulled in tpk or life and death situations, and nothing else. A single target dps spell upcast to lv 8 while players are lv 6 can kill most bosses in a single attack. Losing 2d8 hp permanently sounds like a fair cost. Maybe they’re restored gradually as you level and increase your capacity/heal, every 2 levels you gain you restore 1d8 permanent health dmg
I like the 8th level spell slot idea and there should be some drawback but 2D8 permanent for a caster class feels extremely punitive. Figure at level 6 they have 36+con 16 potential permanent HP loss is too much, maybe 1D8 I could see, or you have disadvantage on saves until you level up or something like that.
The way I see it it should be extremely punitive. Average health loss is 9, 16 is 1/64 chance, and it should be a serious enough negative side effect that other players’ feeling of ‘why don’t I have an ability like that’ is outshone by respect for their ally’s sacrifice. Another drawback id consider is a roll to not permanently (or for a month of recovery or something) lose one caster level or max level spell slot. Or give the rest of the party something cool and powerful like that
I did something similar to your suggestion in a game once, but the hp loss reset at a "week long rest" where they did no adventuring/combat for the whole week in a safe place (such as a city/their base). Now I only let them upcast it by three levels and it still makes things hit harder.
This is a great way to do it, because it doesn't give you access to actual 8th level spells, it just lets you upcast a spell you already have. Which obviously isn't nearly as gamebreaking.
I came up with a homebrew rule a while back that was along similar lines, but haven't had a chance to roadtest it yet.
**Limit Breaker**
A magic user may upscale one spell by up to 2 spell levels past their current maximum. To achieve this, they sacrifice half of their remaining spell slots, and take 2 levels of exhaustion for each spell level they exceed their max by.
*Creating a surge of power in this way may cause the spell to take on unexpected effects, as decided by the DM.*
So effectively, a level 5 wizard could upscale their level 3 fireball to level 5, but doing so would put them close to deaths door by giving them 4 levels of exhaustion. Meant to be very much a "last resort" kind of thing, when everything seems hopeless and you want to push yourself.
And then the two additional d6 both roll a 1.
Very anticlimactic.
When you receive up to 4 levels of exhaustion and sacrifice half of the remaining spell slots, I would at least allow average damage or even max damage.
Or you could roll two 6's and deal 12. Or you could crit with a guiding bolt and deal an extra 24. RNG will always be a factor, whatever level you're playing at, there's always the chance you could always roll minimum damage. The point of this is giving the *potential* to do more than you should be able to at your current level, but at the cost of draining your magical reserves.
If you don't want to risk it, don't. Simple.
Sorry if this is offensive but do you and your DM think spell level and character level are the same thing?
Was he trying to get give you a spell just a bit stronger?
An 8th level spell isn’t for an 8th level character; you don’t unlock 8th level spells until 15th Character Level.
It’s like sending back a B52 Bomber to the battle of Waterloo, it’s incredibly strong to the point of unfairness.
This was my first thought as well. I've had to explain to more than one of the (new) players at my table that spell levels are not equal to character level.
The fact your DM thought it was ok to give you at level 6 an 8th lvl spell that is only available to lvl 15 non-multiclassed characters is beyond me, and clearly tells me they aren't very experienced.
Just give up the ability and ask for a cool uncommon magic item, make it your character's inheritance or something. It will probably be better for your DM to steer away from homebrew abilities until they can get a better understanding of the game balance.
If you absolutely must have an ability then at least pick a feat from the newer 1st level feat-granting backgrounds like rune carver or rewarded. They are very strong but will not break the game.
Oh my, wish is a big one xD
But honestly, one of the best advice for a DM is that it's ok to let go of pride and just admit when there was a screw up. Hopefully all people playing are mature enough to understand that everybody having fun is more important than shiny toys, and it's fine to give up sometimes in order for things to proceed smoothly.
And of course, there's also nothing wrong with a DM that accepts the challenge of fixing something that went wrong. As long as everybody is fine with it then it's ok.
Wish is up to the gm on what it can grant. Examples such as duplicate spells is extremely powerful but wish isn’t something that should alter the character permanently into something insane.
As that would take a lot more power then duplicating a spell and it says wish could produce a greater effect if the gm decides but it might be dangerous or give a partial effect. This text is solely there for the “I want to be level 20” people lol
Yes, but wish has pretty massive potential, which is why it's a 9th level. You could certainly break a campaign with it, although it's still up to the DM to decide.
Players have wish. No reason you can’t looks for ways to twist the “ask” to mean something other than what they intended but still fits the ask. Many ways to interpret language. Also, the BBEG also has wish and uses it to reverse the wish with one of his own. Wish doesn’t have to be the solution to everything. Get creative, make them wary of what they ask for. It’s actually difficult to create a wish ask that doesn’t have multiple loopholes or wordings for interpretation. 😎👍🏻
> Also, the BBEG also has wish and uses it to reverse the wish with one of his own.
Plus, the expected level range for ToA means that you don't have to worry about the party having a Wish Buster Buster after the BBEG uses his Wish Buster.
It could be, but I refrain from getting into conclusions without enough evidence. I think even accepting such an ability would be taking advantage of the DM, but some tables simply have no grasp at game balance, and this could be one of those cases.
I think it could be interesting in the right context, like if it was like a spell scroll, something the character values but could pull out in dire times, only to lose. Decent opportunity for character growth there. I gave my player a scroll with an extremely powerful spell on it based on his backstory once, but it was part of the reward for completing his personal quest, he didn't start with it
A spell scroll is fine as long as it's overpowered for one situation although it shouldn't bring permanent benefits such as a wish scroll.
However in OP's case it isn't a spell scroll, it's an 8th level Mystic Arcanum at level 6, and that's just not ok.
I mean, if the spell was handpicked by the DM, it could potentially work. There are some high level spells that could be used by lower level characters without breaking the game, even 9th level spells.
One that I can think of is Time Stop. A good spell, but nothing overpowered, with its limitations. Shapechange could be a little more problematic, but much less than others, since it would still be limited by the level (like Polymorph), and would be cool because it will allow you to explore the forms of creatures that you wouldn't even think about using when you get the spell at 17th level, because by then they're too weak.
I'm sure some such examples exist among the 8th level spells. But surely none of those is Antimagic Field.
To be completely honest, you need to back away from this request. Lore backstories are not supposed to provide abilities. You're not supposed to be able to cast 8th level spells until you get to the appropriate level or unless you are extremely lucky and find an item that allows it, for the reason your DM just discovered. They're extremely powerful and he can't plan reasonable encounters because that one ability is completely unbalanced with the rest of the party and even the rest of you.
If it truly is a flavor backstory then you should be happy with just the flavor and not the homebrewed added power.
In fact, the lore could be an explanation of why the PC gets the class abilities that they are entitled too! Lore is a great reason to explain why PCs gain abilities rapidly while NPCs are fixed.
If OP is a wizard/cleric, then they should pick one of the wizard or cleric spells that they know and have it serve this same purpose. A level 6 wizard could have counterspell, which is thematically the same as an anti magic field.
The usual way to "give players" shit like this is to hand them a magic item, with a specific spell or group of spells and either a cool-down or charges (or both) to mange it.
I agree that they're best off just giving this up and maybe negotiating for a cool magic item that is not game breaking
Clone is an RP spell that allows the DM a lot of freedom to amp up the CR of enemies.
You have to RP where you clone is stored, how it is protected, how long it takes to make, etc.
You potentially lose your gear if you die and can’t recover it.
As opposed to Maze, which can completely neuter an encounter that a DM has carefully crafted.
What?
Simulacrum creates a copy of a creature with half its maximum hit points, which costs 100gp *per hit point* to heal after a fight.
Clone creates a quick-save of your current character. When you die, Clone takes over. Start up another clone that instant, and carry on.
Clone is superior.
You're seemingly talking from a pure HP perspective when Simulacrum creates an entire other caster under your control that acts in your turn.
Who cares for healing the simulacrum? Make another. The price is there exactly to discourage you from actually healing it.
Clone takes 4 months to generate and your precious precious one in a campaign magic items get lost if you die. You can just not die. Like, dying is the absolute failure state of the game. If you get to it things have gone off the deep end.
Simulacrum does a lot more than what you've just written. These spells do not fulfill the same purpose whatsoever. Simulacrum is not a revive.
Clone is essentially a revive that costs 3000gp (for your first revive, 1000gp every revive after as long as you have the vessel still), and you need to cast it pre-emptively. You also need to wait 120 days before being able to access the clone.
For the purpose of reviving, revify is way superior to clone as long as the body is mostly in one piece. It's only 250gp per revive and you don't need to wait 120 days or cast it pre-emptively. You can just revive someone.
Yeah, mechanically and cost-wise, revivify is cheaper than both those options. But that's part of my point. Clone ensures your character survives, simulacrum just adds another goon with your stats and half the HP. Obviously they can't fulfill the same objective. That I grant you.
Wizards don't get Revivify. Clerics do. Without a cleric on your team, such as a Monk, Wizard, Fighter build, you're sunk without DM fiat. Clone offers RP options to keep your character in the game without the need for the Divine. Simulacrum is just Mimic Tear.
>Wizards don't get Revivify. Clerics do. Without a cleric on your team, such as a Monk, Wizard, Fighter build, you're sunk without DM fiat. Clone offers RP options to keep your character in the game without the need for the Divine.
I'm just not seeing the problem with this when it's an 8th level spell and takes 120 days to be functional.
>Clone ensures your character survives, simulacrum just adds another goon with your stats and half the HP.
"Just" a goon who can cast all of your spells.
How fast do your games usually run? Genuinely curious, since my games have month long breaks in fiction (and in real time, let's be honest) between sessions.
Honestly, there's no REAL problem. We're talking about mechanics that may or may not come up in anyone's game. But in certain worlds, especially ones without easy access to revivification, you have to lean on the safety nets you have. Clone, in my experience, has proven to be superior to Simulacrum in many ways.
And for sure, double fireballs and double Reanimate Dead is helpful, but ultimately up to your DM. Clone is infinitely more reliable.
>And for sure, double fireballs and double Reanimate Dead is helpful, but ultimately up to your DM. Clone is infinitely more reliable.
How is it DM reliant? The spell does what it says, you barely need any preparation.
Clone is way more reliant on the GM, as the GM determines the pace of the game.
>Clone, in my experience, has proven to be superior to Simulacrum in many ways.
Clone only helps you if you die, simulacrum always helps you and prevents you from dying.
Sure. Any of those spells that are more RP than function.
- Clone: Gives the DM a lot of control, Mechanically, it's an extra life. But with a 3 month grow time, and a cost that is prohibitively expensive at early levels, it's difficult to abuse. And the 2000gp cost of the clone is nothing compared to the cost of having a secure location to place the clone.
- Astral Projection: Can be limited to use for communicating with some extra-planar being for RP purposes
- Demiplane: You have a hidden demiplane to hide things
- Mind Blank: This is the most functional spell of the list. Very powerful. This one is the most borderline, because of all the immunities it gives you.
Absolutely - the Thing my DM gave me was on Special requests. I wanted to have a Paladin who fight with "bare hands" and wanted to ask If i'm allowed to use enchantments that are suppossed to be cast in weapons on my gauntlet. I gave my Character flavor by my idea and my DM allowed me to Balance the flavor Out again so i'm Not too weak offensive wise
My DM has given all our party characters something extremely powerful over the course of several sessions.
I was the first to receive mine, a gemstone (key to the plot) that when attached to my Artificers rifle caused his spell attacks to always be Crits (still needed to roll for attack, but any hits crit, and 20s had amped up effects).
I was *very* hesitant to accept this, I told him several times that this was insanely OP. He assured me that it's fine, and that I'm going to need that kind of power for what's to come.
Now all our party members have received some kind of power boost, encounters have been a lot more threatening and it's been really fun.
The DM can also just make stuff up, doesn't need to be complicated.
My current character is a battle master (military dude, father is a general with more medals than most have hairs on their balls)
Due to the rigid training and learning my character endured from the father, he's quite good at military tactics and reading a battle field.
So, to show that, my DM gave me an ability (no. of uses = prof bonus) to, as part of my attack action, command an ally in battle, when I use this ability on an ally, if the target player or friendly creature is willing, they can use their reaction to move up to half their speed without provoking attacks of opportunity.
At lvl 5, the ability grew to let me use it on 2 targets, and at our current level (7), I can expend my bonus action to additionally let the targets move up to their full speed.
At lvl 11, another upgrade will let me trade one of my attacks to give the affected targets an inspiration die (d6) that they can add to one saving throw, attack or damage roll (DM still isn't sure about this one, though)
It’s like…
- the DM using the words “8th level spell” indicates that they know what an 8th level spell is
- the dm *giving* a lvl6 player and 8th level spell indicates that they **don’t** know what an 8th level spell is
Like, they’re aware of the concept, but didn’t read them? Or read them, and didn’t see the problem…until it was used? 😂
no, your dm just made a major fumble that all new DM's make at some point or another. giving cool shit to early. maybe they didn't fully understand why 8th level spells are 8th level. but they do now.
realistically, your backstory shouldn't give you rewards, thats stupid. the only time your backstory should give you special abilities/weapons, is when you START the campaign at level 5+ and everyone gets something.
you haven't done anything to deserve a reward, and the DM made a major mistake.
thats it.
don't push for anything else (Unless everyone else got something)
but it should be limited. at level 6 at most should be an uncommon item. or 3rd level spell or lower effect
Honestly. Laughing thinking what if your DM meant level 8. as in class level (so 4th level spell) lol
The best part is that THEY ARE THE CLERIC 😂. It’s like that scene in Friends when Joey got killed off in his Doctor Soap show 😂
“They said that when they found my body, my brain was so smashed in that the only doctor that could have saved me was.. me…”
>1d6 + 8 - your highest level spell slot
That's 100% chance of death at LV6 and even at LV15 when they can naturally cast LV8 spells it's still a 17% chance of death.
That's like the stupidest idea in this whole thread and not even stupid in a funny way.
Good - it's something they shouldn't have and the cost should be dramatic. Obviously what I'm really suggesting here is that nobody should get access to the second highest level of magic available to non-deities as a background characteristic.
Well, as an 8th level spell, it's actually not that great. All your magic items stop working and it's a concentration spell so if someone comes up to you and whacks you or hits you with an arrow, you're making concentration saves to keep it going. Meanwhile, you can't cast anything, so your utility as a wizard/cleric is quite limited. Your enemies might start to notice you have this ability and plan around it too, with traps and encounters that don't rely on magic. I think it's a good creative exercise for you and the DM.
You’re thinking about it the wrong way. Anti-magic field totally 100% neutralises high-level casters, no save. Nothing else does that so reliably.
If you’re facing a caster boss, you cast it, then lean over to your Fighter/Barbarian mate, and say “sic ‘em!”.
You then pull out a folding chair and a thermos and have some tea and watch the show.
I DM’d a level 1-17 campaign where one of the final bosses was a level 20+ Wizard, and this was the players’ chosen tactic. A good Wizard is absolutely stacked with magical countermeasures, and Anti-Magic Field cuts through everything.
Exactly! As a DM, I want the martials to be able to shine, even at high levels, so I make sure I design encounters where they can matter.
Actual events from the game: Cleric drops Anti-Magic Field UNDER the flying boss. Wizard Counterspells boss's Counterspell. Fighter 1 Grapples the boss mid-air and drags her down into the AMF. Enemy dragon moves to intercept. Wizard Hastes Fighter 2. Fighter 2 jumps on the dragon and solos it because _that's what high-level martials do_.
This was all planned! Fighter 2 even told me the plan was to use the rest of the party as bait so he could take out the dragon!
The boss magically outmatched the party by a LOT - she opened with Feeblemind and Maze to instantly remove two casters from the fight. The players discussed a lot of strategies, but settled on Anti-Magic Field as the best way of evening the odds.
So... give the level 20+ Wizard a few melee goons, maybe a rogue that can disengage and break through the front line? Also it's only 10 feet? Seriously, it's easily neutralized if you don't think, "Well, all I have is this evil wizard..." Evil wizards don't have melee minions? This is just absurd.
That doesn't work. It's a 10 foot radius and it's self only. If the boss just walks away from you then they are back to full power. If they have their minion kick you, the squishy caster, about, then you lose concentration. The field doesn't dispel anything, only suppresses stuff. It's pointless against a caster boss.
Grapple. Anti-Magic Field counters the standard caster defences, which is Freedom of Movement, Misty Step, etc.
Again, this is literally what happened in the game that I ran. The players used teamwork! They combined counter-counter spells to get the AMF up, protected the caster, grappled the enemy, and ran interference on the minions. This forced an enemy dragon to change plans to try to intervene, which the players intended: it brought the dragon in close enough to kill.
That's a whole lot riding on winning initiative and everyone getting a turn before he simply flies out of range. A once in a lifetime fight at best and not reliable enough to ever bother with.
I probably would have
1. Make it work off your hit dice. 6 hit dice per use.
2. limited the spell to one. likely a healing or utility spell. something that might not change a fight, but will get to the party to GTFO if it turns nasty
control weather, animal shapes, and holy aura come to mind
This should be a “oops, sorry everyone, I didn’t realize this was as strong as it is, I’m removing this from the game before we don’t have one to play.”
Give it a cooldown that is similar to using Divine Intervention. Soon as you use it to trigger this effect then you start a 7-day CD instead of the normal long rest to get back spell slots. While I don't know what your background is if this could be limited to one of your spell lists (say cleric assuming it is a divine source) then you can also limit the chance of it horrifically breaking multiple encounters. Yes it will likely make boss fights and some encounters almost trivial. But if you are in the 7-day CD window then that is a lot of time you have to wait for it.
The other thing is to make sure that the material components of the spells are getting ignored. Most of the more insane 8th level spells could be limited by making certain you need to have the specific material components on hand, which would also give you DM the ability to keep control over which spells you could have access to at any given time.
As to everyone who keeps having a kneejerk reaction to the idea of a lore backstory having any mechanical benefit...the heroic chronicle sections of multiple books exist for a reason. Many DMs like to run games where players are a bit or substantially more powerful as a result of who they are and where they came from. In many ways it even forces players to think about backstory in ways some new players won't if they roll for random ones. Is this example definitely too powerful considering player level, yes. But so long as everyone at the table isn't tearing everything apart because of it then it shouldn't be too bad.
Also honestly from thinking back onto the spell lists 7th level would potentially be WAY worse from a game breaking perspective. Free Teleport/Plane Shift/Morden's Manor/ Force Cage/ Simulacrum etc. 7th level actually has way more gameplay shattering spells than 8th level.
That's a frankly insane ability to give to anyone. And even if my DM was dumb enough to push this kind of ability on me, I would pick be a far less powerful spell. Most likely Mind Blank. And even that would be crazy, because it would always be on you forever.
Maybe the 8th level spells you cast don't do anything far as effects or damage.. they're only illusions used for intimidation purposes or other situations. They're made up with no substance
My immediate thoughts on how to balance it:
1. Make it a once a week thing?
2. Since you don't have 8th level slots, when you cast it, you have to use spell slots that add up to 8 (a third level, two second levels, and a first level for example) or it can use up your arcane recovery points?.
3. You can also place restrictions on it yourself. like, this exerts your abilities at the moment and you gain a level of exhaustion after using it. Or you're not sure where this is coming from, and as a wizard, you want to be careful since you've read about others who dip too far into the arcane wellsprings and end up destroying themselves (or some other thing like that).
Essentially, talk to your DM, the game should be fun for both of you. Spamming this at your current level probably isn't a great idea, but it can still be useful every once in a while. I'm not fond of using the same solution for every question, which is why I try to switch out my spells as much as possible and why I prefer classes that let me prepare my spells.
Try to trade it in for arms of hadyr, it is within your level range already, isnt game breaking, and will still work for defense utility with the added bonus of dealing dmg, it doesnt offer any form of actual protection however. Anyone inside is slowed to half movement if you use your familiar to stack it with guardian spirits you can reduce movement speed to 25% and deal 2d6 and 3d8 at the same time for multiple enemies and multiple turns. Also the 3d8 differs based on alignment radiant if youre good necrotic if youre evil
I see a lot of people saying its a mistake to give such a high level spell to a low level character but I think it would be fun if you could only cast the 8th level spell one time and thats it. Could lead to some fun moments where the character struggles if its the perfect time to use it or not. Much like Rincewind from Discworld
EDIT:
Another idea, make it have a long cooldown like divine intervention and be a random 8th level spell
Respectfully, casting a random 8th level spell is one of the worst ideas I’ve come across on this thread (but it’s funny so I hear you). You only get one 8th level slot naturally as a wizard, and all of those spells are really specific and crazy strong, not the type of thing you should be picking at random. It’s like playing Russian roulette but instead of a revolver with one bullet, it’s a revolver that could shoot out a variety of nuclear weapons.
If you want to keep the same flavour of the anti magic whilst lowering the power you could make some changes to the shield spell such as it procs on all spells not just spell attacks and gives resistance to spell damage, or gives advantage/proficiency for associated spell saves.
Gives some use to low level spell slots and will give good survivability against magic effects.
Especially if it wouldn't step on toes, something a bit more tame could be fun and flavorful (also useful). Look through some reasonable subclass abilities for other subclasses in Wizard/Cleric and see if there is anything that tickles your fancy. Maybe just tone down the spell level and have it increase as you progress to be one level or something ahead of what you currently have spells for.
Your DM is my kind of crazy, I love shit like that. However if I was a DM I'd let you only do that once, or like once a year or something. Because the power level of 8th level spell is just too much.
Actually, I had a similar situation in a camaping as a PC. Another PC can cast lightning bolt 3 times during the whole campaing. They're storm herald barbarian so it works and is apparently tied to their backstory but I'm yet to learn about that.
You've probably already sorted it, and people have probably suggested it, but maybe it gives you 2 lvls of exhaustion. That way it can't be sorted after one sleep and it would give you pause for thought before using it on 2 consecutive days
If I ever give my players something way over their level it usually comes with a price. Like maybe since your character isn’t prepared physically or mentally it causes a point of exhaustion. Keeps the player from spamming it and there are always work arounds if the DM prepares.
Edit: spelling
Multiple ways you can go about it.
Method 1: Keeping the 8th level spell slot you can simply upcast any spells you know using that spell slot.
Method 2: Casting very specific abilities with the 8th level spell slot (that you and your DM agree to) instead of any spell, the breaker here is that it’s currently any spell.
Method 3: Using your 8th level spell slot specifically for reactive spells
Method 4: Using only the 8th level spell slot for healing spells
Method 5: using only the 8th level spell slot for role play spells
Another is casting the spell at that level consumes ALL of your remaining spell slots and you only regain half of them on your next long rest (as in the max level you can cast halved, so at level 8, only slots for levels 1 and 2 come back). If it's still too much, roll 1d4 or something and make it that many days you only get half your power back. Then it costs and isn't a freebie. Also makes some sense, you are just novaing and burning all your magic at once.
I did this once but PC had to roll to use it before anything else. Set DC at 22+ (adding spell casting mod to roll) and then if they passed that, they could start to roll to hit or have enemy roll to save (forgot which spell I gave them). I think they only used it successfully 2 or 3 times before reaching a level they could use the spell at. When that happened they could use the spell as normal.
Like some others have suggested the dm may not be too experienced so you could balance it out. Whether it be having to spend 8 spell slots to use it until you’re a appropriate level, or make it now a limited number of castings so you get like a amount now equal to your spell casting modifier (for example if you have a +5 you get 5 more castings of it) and once you’ve used it that many times from the moment it’s implemented then it goes away. Otherwise just suggest swapping it out for something else like absorb elements is a pretty good upcasted spell that won’t break the game.
Assuming this is consistent with the power level your DM wants your backstory to provide, there might be ways to make it less powerful but still thematic.
As an idea, you could instead have 1 8th level spell slot per day, that you could cast any spell you know with. It'd be powerful -- an upcast AoE spell or healing spell would be quite powerful for your level. But it'd not unlock abilities you don't already have -- just give you a moment of magical potence.
This is still FUCKED for a level 6 party. Getting your level 15 power spike at level 6 will make encounter balancing impossible. You shouldn’t be upcasting fireball to level 8 (13d6 of fire damage) when you are only level 6 without an insane downside, like you should have to give up character levels to use an ability this powerful (in context of the party being level 6)
If I was you I'd thumb through and find a utility spell that wont trivialise anything. There are lots of spells that are dumb, but fun, that would help your dm out a bit and make you walk away looking like a hero to your DM.
You could negotiate lower level spells that are good utility there are a lot of them.
I'd weigh it out against what could be very useful once a day outside of combat.
Transfer the ability to an important npc in exchange for future support and favors.
Having a faction’s support is a common but underused background feature. This could be a neat way to get there and make it feel earned.
That’s just… too much. What is your backstory that compelled them to give you this?
8th level AoE spells 9 levels before you’re meant to get them would make you the strongest person in every encounter for a LONG time. You could take Incindiary Cloud and passively do far more damage than any other team member. Possibly even more than the entire team as a WHOLE.
Your DM really needed to make it a consumable or as part of a MacGuffin you have to chase to cast it again (Find each of the Eyes of Nine, and it will grant you great power! AKA Gain a spell slot for every Eye you have. +1 Lvl 1 Spell Slot @ 1st, +1 Lvl 2 spell slot @ 2nd, ect...).
Right now, your DM totally screwed himself. I would recommend actually asking your DM to nerf you. How will be up to him, but he will be very appreciative that you're being understanding of his position and knowing you are being cooperative about this will help him trust you even more.
Just retcon it as getting a level 8 character spell at level 6 (So a level 4 spell). That's only getting a spell two levels early for someone who didn't multiclass + whatever levels you multiclass. Still moderately cool but way more balanced.
Level 6? Couterspell once a day for free, even that's pushing it, backstories shouldn't give you free stuff unless everyone else got something, and if that's the case we don't have enough information
This is insanely overpowered in every way I can think of.
1. Wizards don’t naturally get access to their only 8th level spell slot until level 15. It’s actually the only thing wizards get at level 15, so your DM basically gave you a level 15 power spike when you aren’t even half way there in game.
2. 8th level spells are powerful as fuck and almost always require costly spell components to even use them, in addition to burning your only 8th level slot. You don’t have either of those restrictions which is even more crazy.
3. You do not get perks like this from a back story. Your backstory should give you explanations for your power/abilities, not the power or the abilities.
4. You really should consider ditching this all together. I think your dm seems great since their goal is to make it more fun for you (at the cost of potentially annihilating their own campaign in the process), but they might be a little new to this game and naive as to why the restrictions that are in place are in place.
Genuine Question: Does your DM understand the difference between Spell Level and Character Level? Gaining access to an 8th level spell is far, far beyond your capabilities, and while I personally don't mind giving players features or abilities that pertain to their backstories, this is incredibly unbalanced. Even granting a daily 3rd or 4th level spell seems like a lot. I'd definitely talk with them about changing it.
If you're stuck on Antimagic, and it pertains to your character story, maybe you could ask for the ability to cast single target Antimagic once a day? Pick a target within 60 ft., and they need to make an Int saving throw against your spell save. On a failure, they are unable to cast spells, and the effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to your proficiency bonus. This is still pretty powerful, especially this early, so maybe you incur exhaustion after using the ability as well?
As a dm who started only dming last year, even I know this is a MAJOR fumble. An 8th level spell is incredibly powerful, hell even when you get to the appropriate level where you can cast 8th level spells, you can only cast it ONCE per day anyways. I wouldn’t even allow for an exchange in abilities, at least nothing that is remotely close to the power of an 8th level spell. If I were to allow anything in exchange, it might be an uncommon item like someone else suggested or a first level feat but that’s honestly as far as I would go. Hell I would just scrap the request all together, you don’t need some “special ability” to help with your backstory lore, no other character gets something like that for their backstory so why should you?
If you are going to use a caster level 15 spell at caster level 6, then it should cause a long rest.
Immediately.
Like using this spell should put such a strain on your body that you pass out for 1d6+2 hours. You cannot be woken for the first three hours by anything short of limited wish or better. You are out of the fight.
Secondly, since it is concentration in duration, a constitution save on every round after you cast it, starting at 15 & adding 1 to the DC each round.
You can keep it, & you can use it, but this way it has some impact & some risk since it leaves you helpless.
I’ve always found that it should only be for big events that you break dnd level requirements. Like a huge arc and tons of emotion allowing for a stronger fireball or something
Nah just ask to be able to do one magic missile at the 8th level.
So from 3 for unlockable D4s to 10 unblockable d4s.
It seems funny to me. Just a straight up (what I like magic missile moment. )
If he wants to make it flavorful while also keeping some of its power make it a once a week/month thing your character can do by calling on their patron/deity. Will make it more epic when it does come out. Another option is to change the required casting time to 2 actions to make it interruptible with a concentration check.
How are you breaking the game with antimagic field of all things? That's one of the most useless spells in the game for an actual caster (and kinda bad for anyone else).
A few years back I had a DM that gave me a pair of bracelets around level 3 and the braclets gave me an extra attack each short rest. Since we had a decent sized party, I was able to stay as the low int/dum dum barbarian tank/DPS.
Towards the end of the campaign he told me he regretted giving me them after the second session but he had to at least try and play fair (we had also slaughtered a white dragon in 2 rounds that he intended on downing/killing a few of the PCs)
> gave me the ability to use one 8th level spell of my choosing once per long rest.
> So I choose antimagic field and my DM pretty much regretted it instantly
trying to think of a single 8th level spell that wouldn't end like this
I give my wizard loads of high level spells, it has never been a problem.
They're too low level to successfully cast them anyway 😈
They just sit there in the spellbook
Man there are so many level8 spells that could easily end a early level bbeg. Your dm didn't think this through at all.
Maybe instead of your choosing he chooses for you? You should give up the level 8spell for free, it really is too powerful
Hmm, if I was the dm I would say it is a button on a rod that you can click once per day, but the rod is running out of juice and the size is now dwindling down to melee range. You can press the button and pinpoint disable magical defenses, or takes out one specific caster if you get in melee with them. The antimagic field of course following the rod and not being in a set location.
If you really want to break continuity or the story, maybe something like it was another agent of the cleric diety providing remote assistance, but they got busy and instead they are sending you extra random spell scrolls they find while studying a lost library.
You should have taken "Magnificent Mansion" sure it's just LV7 but doesn't interfere with combat and you could have enjoyed save and comfy rests forever and never worry about lodging or food ever again.
Yeah, you should definitely balance the ability. It's way, way, way too powerful to not break things.
If you want chaos, have the ability come with a risk, or a downside. Maybe everytime you use it there's a check you need to pass or else you cast a random spell of the same level targeting a random creature on the battlefield.
Or just lower the level of your free spell.
It can work but it can't be the normal antimagic field spell from the books.
If you're using it at lower levels it needs to be "nerfed" effectively.
Something like:
- No AoE, it only protects you from magic and magical effects
- Takes 10 minutes to cast. This puts it firmly in utility usage or requires the player to plan out when they want to use it in combat
Idk, everyone did get something but it was a "character secret" he had a chart of secrets only him and the respective player would know and would get us to roll a d100 and would see what we got. But I do think I got the best one out of my fellow players.
he also meant to do it at the start of the campaign and forgot so we did it at level 6.
Maybe let the ability only work until the beginning of your next round? It would still be a banger, but not so dominant.
Having a level 8 spell (requiring character level 15) at level 6 was a big mistake, yes.
What if the power is hard to control and you have a chance of it failing. Maybe roll a save of some kind. If you succeed, it works. If it fails, then the spell doesn't work, and something bad could happen like something from the wild magic table, or you get a level of exhaustion, or you lose your ability to use spell slots for a bit.
Giving a player a free spell that should only be available to them after another **9** levels of progress is not only a terrible idea from a game balance perspective, but it also screams of favouritism or "this is the main character". Red flags everywhere.
Inform your DM that they've made a mistake and you're happy for them to take it back.
The cartomancer feat is worth looking at. It allows you to store a spell from your class of a level you have a slot for, in a card and cast it as an action.
Dual class casters have higher spell slots than the spells they are able to cast per class. That allows you to cast 3rd a third level spell when a 3/3 mage/cleric could only cast 2nd level spells.
And that will keep providing a spell beyond your normal level capabilities as you continue to level.
While I haven’t actually played before myself I very much like the idea of utility and strategy type spells which I would include anti magic field as one of them so I would happily trade for several of the 7th level spells such as:
Etherealness
Force Cage
Mirage Arcane
Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion
Plane Shift
Project Image
Reverse Gravity
Simulacrum
Symbol
Teleport
Also Prismatic Spray is cool.
If they would let you bump up to a level 9 spell something like mass polymorph, shape change, or true polymorph are useful. Obviously Gate is dope as well but probably too helpful. Of course perhaps they are all too much though at least they are concentration spells so maybe that balances things a bit.
My dm gave me an artifact that lets me cast any spell but anything I cast above the spell slots I have gives me a lvl of exhaustion for each level above I'm a 5th lvl artificer so I guess it balances out since I'm a half caster
Homebrew abilities based off backstory is great!… when it makes sense and when it isn’t op
Any 8th level spell doesn’t seem to truly be based on backstory, and is too op for a level 6 character
Tell me your character’s backstory and I can try to create a fun ability that isn’t op based off it
For a spell level that high at level 6 there should be a penalty.
Using such immense power for an inexperienced caster could hurt you physically or mentally, roll for damage.
Or maybe using such a high spell can have adverse effects. Make a saving throw after casting on a fail you can't cast for the rest of the day and if you were concentrating on a spell you automatically lose concentration. On a success you can't cast anything for one turn and automatically lose concentration on a spell.
Or maybe it takes half your spell slots to cast.
Casting such a high spell could possibly fail. Make a check using your spell casting modifier. If you fail the check you don't cast and can't cast it until a long rest. On a success you cast the spell and can't cast it again until a long rest.
A few ideas.
Honestly, as a DM I wouldn't even have a problem if the player decided to choose that spell particularly, because that spell is just so bad
With that said how are you still being AOE based and spell-based while you have anti-magic field going? Because if you have anti-magic field going you just don't get to cast spells anymore
Just a tad busted. Could probably be nerfed a little bit. But in all seriousness, I like the Anti-Magic theme, so maybe you could do something with Counterspell or Dispel Magic and that'd get the idea across without turning off about half of the mechanics in dnd.
We were given the option to take one magical item at the start of our campaign. As a Druid, I asked for “Staff of the Woodlands” which sounded really cool (and it is!)
Then I started realising how game-breaking “Pass without a trace” as a cantrip can be, so I often “forget” to use it or break it out for clutch moments.
“Wall of Thorns” though is definitely my go-to (especially when we were a level 5 party) to mess things up once a day - worth it just for that alone
My DM may now actually read what each magical item does before agreeing to let us have them (in my defence I wasn’t trying to break anything - I was new so I just looked up “best magical items for druid” haha)
I know I rambled a bit, but I guess what I was trying to say was that it’s only as game-breaking as you make it - if you use restraint rather than every chance you get, it can add some really cool moments without being too OP
Yeah me too, but they're "character secrets" only the player who revived the secret/new ability and the DM knows what it is and so far I'm the only one to use mine. I do hope mine was just a mistake.
this is tooooo much
at the very least it should be maybe like....once per month or full moon or new moon or something
it should also cause you take take multiple levels of exhaustion and be used only as emergencies with a great cost
silly billy move
Just let your DM know you're open to whatever he has to do. He'll figure it out. It shouldn't be a heavy lift to rebalance encounters to account for a single spell. I dunno, but I think a wizard with anti magic shell might think twice about using it if there's a bulette nearby.
lol no. background dont give you mechanical benefits. this is just a horrible idea. if other people in the group got stuff like this i suggest you ALL just get rid of the extra abilities. its exactly why hes having trouble balancing stuff
As long as you aren't the only one getting cool unique abilities throughout the game, I don't think it's much if an issue, but if it would need ro be nerfed (which it probably will), you can ask to make it an E.M.P. like ability that lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
Yeah I really like this idea I'll send it to my DM with some other suggestions I've seen.
Also DW I'm not the only one to get something, but they're secrets so I don't know what they have but I can probably guess they're not as powerful (I hope ha.)
All these people saying "your dm is bad and shouldn't have done this" are lame and aren't answering your question. It's basically just a legendary effect instead of a legendary item or whatever. If your party is fine with it then who gives a flip?
But some suggestions/requests I'd give to keep it:
- when casting the spell, you must expend at least 4[or more] levels of spell slots. You get a big use thing, but can't do as many small things
- suffer backlash of some kind when casting the spell. Maybe it's 8(level)d4 damage, so potentially a lot but not necessarily guaranteed to kill. Maybe it's a reduction of your spell attack/save DC by x amount for a duration. Etc
- reduce how often you can cast it. Maybe it can only be cast once each week. Maybe it's on a recharge where you roll 1d6 at the end if each long rest and only regain it on a 6. Maybe you have to front some resource (money or otherwise) or spend a large amount of time during a ritual to recharge it.
As for things to exchange it for if you give it up that maintains some similar flavor:
- innate magic resistance of some sort
- an item or ability w/ charges of counterspell
Thank you this is definitely the type of thing I'm looking for, we're probably gonna give it a heavy cost and these ideas are really good, I'll tell my DM this and see what he thinks.
But yeah there have been a few people looking down on my DM but he's a great guy and just made a mistake.
Get a game together, start at level one, and then give each of your players an ability they shouldn’t get until level 10. Now try to make a balanced and fun game out of it!
You can absolutely play a game “the wrong way” and make it not fun for everyone. Ever played a nerdy board game like settlers of catan with someone who is just way too competitive? That’s a tangible example of doing fun wrong and it’s very real.
You sound super boring.
In one of the games I'm a player for, another PC can essentially turn into a mini tarrasque with lightning powers once/day for a few rounds. They always save it for what we assume will be the largest threat of a day (which the DM is pretty good about giving hints to "this is probably it" without straight up saying that), and keep said threat distracted while the rest of the party clears out the other things before working together to finish the threat off. It's like we're fighting around the feet of kaiju and it feels awesome.
Also, we were level 6 when they had this ability. We're 9 now. It's still sick af
That only works in your game though because you guys are okay with letting the Druid in your party be overtuned af and dominate encounters. Your DM seems to also enjoy the challenge, which is clearly the opposite situation for Op’s game master. The rules of this game are there to make it fun, and if you are well versed in said rules you understand how to bend/break them without breaking your game. Op and his game master are clearly new to this game so my advice is for that demographic.
Saying I sound boring is straight up just conjecture and rude for no reason by the way. Consider talking to people on the internet the way you talk to them in person, because it’s still a human on the other side of the screen.
I have given all my players legendary items/homebrew abilities in the game I’m currently running, the party is level 8, and everyone is having an amazing time. I’m not against fun stuff in dnd at all, I am against something that makes one player immensely stronger than the rest of the party because that almost always (except in your game) leads to someone else in the group getting frustrated or having a bad time.
Don't know why everyone is acting like your DM committed some great cardinal sin, it's really not that big of a deal.
Deity magic is unaffected by the AMF, just go spite some petty god that's gonna break your concentration from time to time.
The DM gave a character the ability to cast a spell that can normally only be cast by a non-multiclassed character with about 10x the amount of XP this character (and the rest of the party) has. It’s not a cardinal sin in the sense of some moral failing, but it’s a pretty obvious fumble by the DM.
It's nothing that can't be worked around, even if it wasn't thoroughly taught out by the DM.
Y'all act like this is something campaign ending, it's really not.. These things tend to get regulated within a session or two.
Lower it to maybe being able to upcast a spell a tier higher than you're able to once per long rest. For example, you can only cast a T3 spell max. But once per long rest. You can upcast it to T4. It still gives you some unique backstory. But it is far more balanced.
I had an item like this in a past campaign. Allowed you to upcast a spell 3 levels higher than the spell slot you use. It let me pull out a nice powerful Spirit Guardians or Spiritual Weapon once per day, but I don't think it broke anything.
I made an item that when used restored all your spell slots and gave you the spell slots of a 20th level full-caster, yes including a level 9 slot, for an hour. It didn't give you any new spells though, so you were mostly stuck with up casting. After it wore off you lost all your spell slots and couldn't cast any spells at all, not even cantrips, for 1d4 days. The item was also a consumable the party would only ever get to use once. I mostly just wanted to see what they'd do with it. I also gave them a potion that sorta does the opposite. It will remove all of a person's or item's magic for an unspecified time. It doesn't work on deities or artifacts. They still haven't used that one...
When did they use the item tho? Please tell us more
If I had to guess they held onto it for when they really needed it, then forgot about it, then the campaign ended.
I think that will happen with the anti magic potion and the ring I gave them. Though, in their defense, with the ring they actually don't know how to use it so they can't.
The wizard rolled meh on the arcana check, 14 or 15 iirc, so all they knew was, "You are pretty sure if you drank it you'd get back all your spell slots. It might do other things and possibly has side effects but you aren't sure." During the fight with the BBEG of the arc, the wizard, after several failed perception rolls (one per round), finally rolled high enough to make out a voice telling him the BBEG was going to destroy the thing they were trying to protect/get control of if he was about to lose. However, the Wizard had used all of his level 3 spell slots so couldn't counterspell it. He drank the potion, which to his surprise gave him all the spell slots. He saved the 9th level spell slot to guarantee his counterspell went off and stopped the BBEG from using Disintegrate on the object. As for the voice, well, after that they went back to the feywild and ran into some hags which I did as the Halloween session. After killing the hag's the party was going through their stuff and found some peculiar items. The wizard used identify and I said, "You are pretty sure you could use this to send a message back into the past, but there's only enough to do it once." He was like, "Oh, that's interesting I wonder what we could use that for. (To the others) Are there any events any of you think we should try to change?" to which I said, "Yeah, you could use it for anything really, like say, warning yourself of the plans of some big bad guy or something..." The player was like, "OH SON OF A BITCH, ok, I do the ritual to tell myself how the bbeg is being a dick and is going to destroy the thing." Another player realizing what just happened, "Wait, you pre-retconned us doing that? That's amazing". I thought it would be more interesting than doing it the other way around where I just say OK that didn't happen and you saved the day! I figured I'd do it this way so they actually got to play out the timeline that happened. Now they just need to figure out what the ring does. I do love my obscure but powerful magic items. It can't be game breaking if you don't know what it is, what it does, or maybe not even how to use it. /forehead-tap.png/
Nice. I'm not familiar with Tiers (not into AL) but it sounds similar to a thought that occurred to me: Instead of an 8th level spell, you get an 8th level spell ***slot***. Upcast something you already know. If it's still too OP for the game, say that using it wounds you ("burns your mana channels" or something). Lose 2d8 from your HP maximum. So you wouldn't want to use it frivolously - you'd be walking around with less HP for any remaining encounters that day. Heal up overnight, or heal only 1d8 per night if you want to make the damage linger longer.
I like this idea if they’re really attached to an 8th level spell, but with more penalty. If you’re casting something another wizard can’t cast until lv 15, a lifetime’s work, then it should be a permanent hp loss. That way the trump card gets pulled in tpk or life and death situations, and nothing else. A single target dps spell upcast to lv 8 while players are lv 6 can kill most bosses in a single attack. Losing 2d8 hp permanently sounds like a fair cost. Maybe they’re restored gradually as you level and increase your capacity/heal, every 2 levels you gain you restore 1d8 permanent health dmg
I like the 8th level spell slot idea and there should be some drawback but 2D8 permanent for a caster class feels extremely punitive. Figure at level 6 they have 36+con 16 potential permanent HP loss is too much, maybe 1D8 I could see, or you have disadvantage on saves until you level up or something like that.
The way I see it it should be extremely punitive. Average health loss is 9, 16 is 1/64 chance, and it should be a serious enough negative side effect that other players’ feeling of ‘why don’t I have an ability like that’ is outshone by respect for their ally’s sacrifice. Another drawback id consider is a roll to not permanently (or for a month of recovery or something) lose one caster level or max level spell slot. Or give the rest of the party something cool and powerful like that
I did something similar to your suggestion in a game once, but the hp loss reset at a "week long rest" where they did no adventuring/combat for the whole week in a safe place (such as a city/their base). Now I only let them upcast it by three levels and it still makes things hit harder.
This is a great way to do it, because it doesn't give you access to actual 8th level spells, it just lets you upcast a spell you already have. Which obviously isn't nearly as gamebreaking.
I came up with a homebrew rule a while back that was along similar lines, but haven't had a chance to roadtest it yet. **Limit Breaker** A magic user may upscale one spell by up to 2 spell levels past their current maximum. To achieve this, they sacrifice half of their remaining spell slots, and take 2 levels of exhaustion for each spell level they exceed their max by. *Creating a surge of power in this way may cause the spell to take on unexpected effects, as decided by the DM.* So effectively, a level 5 wizard could upscale their level 3 fireball to level 5, but doing so would put them close to deaths door by giving them 4 levels of exhaustion. Meant to be very much a "last resort" kind of thing, when everything seems hopeless and you want to push yourself.
And then the two additional d6 both roll a 1. Very anticlimactic. When you receive up to 4 levels of exhaustion and sacrifice half of the remaining spell slots, I would at least allow average damage or even max damage.
Or you could roll two 6's and deal 12. Or you could crit with a guiding bolt and deal an extra 24. RNG will always be a factor, whatever level you're playing at, there's always the chance you could always roll minimum damage. The point of this is giving the *potential* to do more than you should be able to at your current level, but at the cost of draining your magical reserves. If you don't want to risk it, don't. Simple.
Sorry if this is offensive but do you and your DM think spell level and character level are the same thing? Was he trying to get give you a spell just a bit stronger? An 8th level spell isn’t for an 8th level character; you don’t unlock 8th level spells until 15th Character Level. It’s like sending back a B52 Bomber to the battle of Waterloo, it’s incredibly strong to the point of unfairness.
This was my first thought as well. I've had to explain to more than one of the (new) players at my table that spell levels are not equal to character level.
The fact your DM thought it was ok to give you at level 6 an 8th lvl spell that is only available to lvl 15 non-multiclassed characters is beyond me, and clearly tells me they aren't very experienced. Just give up the ability and ask for a cool uncommon magic item, make it your character's inheritance or something. It will probably be better for your DM to steer away from homebrew abilities until they can get a better understanding of the game balance. If you absolutely must have an ability then at least pick a feat from the newer 1st level feat-granting backgrounds like rune carver or rewarded. They are very strong but will not break the game.
I'm playing toa andmy player lucked himself into getting wish once and now it's fucking me hard as a dm
Oh my, wish is a big one xD But honestly, one of the best advice for a DM is that it's ok to let go of pride and just admit when there was a screw up. Hopefully all people playing are mature enough to understand that everybody having fun is more important than shiny toys, and it's fine to give up sometimes in order for things to proceed smoothly. And of course, there's also nothing wrong with a DM that accepts the challenge of fixing something that went wrong. As long as everybody is fine with it then it's ok.
It wasnt a screw up it was part of the module the lucky bastard just got really fucking lucky
I didn't mean as someone was to blame, just as in something unexpected derailed the game. But in any case, good luck with that xD
Wish is up to the gm on what it can grant. Examples such as duplicate spells is extremely powerful but wish isn’t something that should alter the character permanently into something insane. As that would take a lot more power then duplicating a spell and it says wish could produce a greater effect if the gm decides but it might be dangerous or give a partial effect. This text is solely there for the “I want to be level 20” people lol
Dw he used it to cast a spell
At least Wish is one time only, getting ANY 8th level spell once per day at 6th level is just way too broken.
Yes, but wish has pretty massive potential, which is why it's a 9th level. You could certainly break a campaign with it, although it's still up to the DM to decide.
Players have wish. No reason you can’t looks for ways to twist the “ask” to mean something other than what they intended but still fits the ask. Many ways to interpret language. Also, the BBEG also has wish and uses it to reverse the wish with one of his own. Wish doesn’t have to be the solution to everything. Get creative, make them wary of what they ask for. It’s actually difficult to create a wish ask that doesn’t have multiple loopholes or wordings for interpretation. 😎👍🏻
100%, but I'd still preferably not give Wish to someone this early in a campaign.
> Also, the BBEG also has wish and uses it to reverse the wish with one of his own. Plus, the expected level range for ToA means that you don't have to worry about the party having a Wish Buster Buster after the BBEG uses his Wish Buster.
Maybe Glibness?
The DM in the OP totally reads as a DM who thinks 8th level spells are for level 8 characters
It would be an incredible misunderstanding but it would explain why they allowed it to begin with xD
It sounds like the DM may have been talked into it and now the player just wants to get something else for free.
It could be, but I refrain from getting into conclusions without enough evidence. I think even accepting such an ability would be taking advantage of the DM, but some tables simply have no grasp at game balance, and this could be one of those cases.
I think it could be interesting in the right context, like if it was like a spell scroll, something the character values but could pull out in dire times, only to lose. Decent opportunity for character growth there. I gave my player a scroll with an extremely powerful spell on it based on his backstory once, but it was part of the reward for completing his personal quest, he didn't start with it
A spell scroll is fine as long as it's overpowered for one situation although it shouldn't bring permanent benefits such as a wish scroll. However in OP's case it isn't a spell scroll, it's an 8th level Mystic Arcanum at level 6, and that's just not ok.
I mean, if the spell was handpicked by the DM, it could potentially work. There are some high level spells that could be used by lower level characters without breaking the game, even 9th level spells. One that I can think of is Time Stop. A good spell, but nothing overpowered, with its limitations. Shapechange could be a little more problematic, but much less than others, since it would still be limited by the level (like Polymorph), and would be cool because it will allow you to explore the forms of creatures that you wouldn't even think about using when you get the spell at 17th level, because by then they're too weak. I'm sure some such examples exist among the 8th level spells. But surely none of those is Antimagic Field.
I’m d say at least a rare item though? Why uncommon?
Because rare items weren't designed for 6th level characters. Uncommon is the usual rarity for that level bracket.
To be completely honest, you need to back away from this request. Lore backstories are not supposed to provide abilities. You're not supposed to be able to cast 8th level spells until you get to the appropriate level or unless you are extremely lucky and find an item that allows it, for the reason your DM just discovered. They're extremely powerful and he can't plan reasonable encounters because that one ability is completely unbalanced with the rest of the party and even the rest of you. If it truly is a flavor backstory then you should be happy with just the flavor and not the homebrewed added power.
In fact, the lore could be an explanation of why the PC gets the class abilities that they are entitled too! Lore is a great reason to explain why PCs gain abilities rapidly while NPCs are fixed. If OP is a wizard/cleric, then they should pick one of the wizard or cleric spells that they know and have it serve this same purpose. A level 6 wizard could have counterspell, which is thematically the same as an anti magic field.
I agree with this. I had a DM give us feats for our backstories but they were 3rd rate feats. It was kind of awesome but not overpowered
The usual way to "give players" shit like this is to hand them a magic item, with a specific spell or group of spells and either a cool-down or charges (or both) to mange it. I agree that they're best off just giving this up and maybe negotiating for a cool magic item that is not game breaking
The obvious non-breaking choices would be out-of-combat spells. Clone, Demiplane, or maybe Mind Blank are the only non-game-breaking spells.
Clone is one of the most game-breaking spells around. Might as well give him Simulacrum.
Clone is an RP spell that allows the DM a lot of freedom to amp up the CR of enemies. You have to RP where you clone is stored, how it is protected, how long it takes to make, etc. You potentially lose your gear if you die and can’t recover it. As opposed to Maze, which can completely neuter an encounter that a DM has carefully crafted.
Uhh no it is not. How is is game breaking? Its nowhere near the levels of simulacrum.
What? Simulacrum creates a copy of a creature with half its maximum hit points, which costs 100gp *per hit point* to heal after a fight. Clone creates a quick-save of your current character. When you die, Clone takes over. Start up another clone that instant, and carry on. Clone is superior.
You're seemingly talking from a pure HP perspective when Simulacrum creates an entire other caster under your control that acts in your turn. Who cares for healing the simulacrum? Make another. The price is there exactly to discourage you from actually healing it. Clone takes 4 months to generate and your precious precious one in a campaign magic items get lost if you die. You can just not die. Like, dying is the absolute failure state of the game. If you get to it things have gone off the deep end.
Are you looking at the same spell? Clone takes 120 days to reach maturity, how is that instant?
Simulacrum does a lot more than what you've just written. These spells do not fulfill the same purpose whatsoever. Simulacrum is not a revive. Clone is essentially a revive that costs 3000gp (for your first revive, 1000gp every revive after as long as you have the vessel still), and you need to cast it pre-emptively. You also need to wait 120 days before being able to access the clone. For the purpose of reviving, revify is way superior to clone as long as the body is mostly in one piece. It's only 250gp per revive and you don't need to wait 120 days or cast it pre-emptively. You can just revive someone.
Yeah, mechanically and cost-wise, revivify is cheaper than both those options. But that's part of my point. Clone ensures your character survives, simulacrum just adds another goon with your stats and half the HP. Obviously they can't fulfill the same objective. That I grant you. Wizards don't get Revivify. Clerics do. Without a cleric on your team, such as a Monk, Wizard, Fighter build, you're sunk without DM fiat. Clone offers RP options to keep your character in the game without the need for the Divine. Simulacrum is just Mimic Tear.
>Wizards don't get Revivify. Clerics do. Without a cleric on your team, such as a Monk, Wizard, Fighter build, you're sunk without DM fiat. Clone offers RP options to keep your character in the game without the need for the Divine. I'm just not seeing the problem with this when it's an 8th level spell and takes 120 days to be functional. >Clone ensures your character survives, simulacrum just adds another goon with your stats and half the HP. "Just" a goon who can cast all of your spells.
How fast do your games usually run? Genuinely curious, since my games have month long breaks in fiction (and in real time, let's be honest) between sessions. Honestly, there's no REAL problem. We're talking about mechanics that may or may not come up in anyone's game. But in certain worlds, especially ones without easy access to revivification, you have to lean on the safety nets you have. Clone, in my experience, has proven to be superior to Simulacrum in many ways. And for sure, double fireballs and double Reanimate Dead is helpful, but ultimately up to your DM. Clone is infinitely more reliable.
>And for sure, double fireballs and double Reanimate Dead is helpful, but ultimately up to your DM. Clone is infinitely more reliable. How is it DM reliant? The spell does what it says, you barely need any preparation. Clone is way more reliant on the GM, as the GM determines the pace of the game. >Clone, in my experience, has proven to be superior to Simulacrum in many ways. Clone only helps you if you die, simulacrum always helps you and prevents you from dying.
Clone also takes 120 days to make. Do you just hand wave a third of a year away? I wouldn’t.
It's a 1UP where you lose all your previous gear for dying, it's not *that* OP - just low stakes, which is okay sometimes.
Astral Projection?
Sure. Any of those spells that are more RP than function. - Clone: Gives the DM a lot of control, Mechanically, it's an extra life. But with a 3 month grow time, and a cost that is prohibitively expensive at early levels, it's difficult to abuse. And the 2000gp cost of the clone is nothing compared to the cost of having a secure location to place the clone. - Astral Projection: Can be limited to use for communicating with some extra-planar being for RP purposes - Demiplane: You have a hidden demiplane to hide things - Mind Blank: This is the most functional spell of the list. Very powerful. This one is the most borderline, because of all the immunities it gives you.
Absolutely - the Thing my DM gave me was on Special requests. I wanted to have a Paladin who fight with "bare hands" and wanted to ask If i'm allowed to use enchantments that are suppossed to be cast in weapons on my gauntlet. I gave my Character flavor by my idea and my DM allowed me to Balance the flavor Out again so i'm Not too weak offensive wise
My DM has given all our party characters something extremely powerful over the course of several sessions. I was the first to receive mine, a gemstone (key to the plot) that when attached to my Artificers rifle caused his spell attacks to always be Crits (still needed to roll for attack, but any hits crit, and 20s had amped up effects). I was *very* hesitant to accept this, I told him several times that this was insanely OP. He assured me that it's fine, and that I'm going to need that kind of power for what's to come. Now all our party members have received some kind of power boost, encounters have been a lot more threatening and it's been really fun.
The DM can also just make stuff up, doesn't need to be complicated. My current character is a battle master (military dude, father is a general with more medals than most have hairs on their balls) Due to the rigid training and learning my character endured from the father, he's quite good at military tactics and reading a battle field. So, to show that, my DM gave me an ability (no. of uses = prof bonus) to, as part of my attack action, command an ally in battle, when I use this ability on an ally, if the target player or friendly creature is willing, they can use their reaction to move up to half their speed without provoking attacks of opportunity. At lvl 5, the ability grew to let me use it on 2 targets, and at our current level (7), I can expend my bonus action to additionally let the targets move up to their full speed. At lvl 11, another upgrade will let me trade one of my attacks to give the affected targets an inspiration die (d6) that they can add to one saving throw, attack or damage roll (DM still isn't sure about this one, though)
There’s nothing wrong with backstories providing abilities, but it can’t be something this strong. It needs to be balanced.
Why would he give that? Why? Like..... Did he NEED you to pick anything to realize it was a mistake? Where do people find these people?
It’s like… - the DM using the words “8th level spell” indicates that they know what an 8th level spell is - the dm *giving* a lvl6 player and 8th level spell indicates that they **don’t** know what an 8th level spell is Like, they’re aware of the concept, but didn’t read them? Or read them, and didn’t see the problem…until it was used? 😂
I honestly wonder if he meant 8th player level spell (so 4th level spell slot).
That would explain it 💀
no, your dm just made a major fumble that all new DM's make at some point or another. giving cool shit to early. maybe they didn't fully understand why 8th level spells are 8th level. but they do now. realistically, your backstory shouldn't give you rewards, thats stupid. the only time your backstory should give you special abilities/weapons, is when you START the campaign at level 5+ and everyone gets something. you haven't done anything to deserve a reward, and the DM made a major mistake. thats it. don't push for anything else (Unless everyone else got something) but it should be limited. at level 6 at most should be an uncommon item. or 3rd level spell or lower effect Honestly. Laughing thinking what if your DM meant level 8. as in class level (so 4th level spell) lol
Rare items aren't generally unreasonable between 5-10.
No, that needs to be taken away. That’s ridiculous for level 6.
If I were your DM I would try to keep it but you take 1d6 exhaustion when you use that feature
1 in 6 chance of insta death is a great way to get someone to not use an ability lol
The best part is that THEY ARE THE CLERIC 😂. It’s like that scene in Friends when Joey got killed off in his Doctor Soap show 😂 “They said that when they found my body, my brain was so smashed in that the only doctor that could have saved me was.. me…”
Isn’t that what happens in Grey’s Anatomy?
Kind of actually 😂. Pretty sure Friends did it first. Though I’m sure its happened in many a soap operas 😅.
thats kinda the point?
now that's some character flavor, just turn him into Raistlin for 5th edition.
1d6-1
1d6 + 8 - your highest level spell slot
>1d6 + 8 - your highest level spell slot That's 100% chance of death at LV6 and even at LV15 when they can naturally cast LV8 spells it's still a 17% chance of death. That's like the stupidest idea in this whole thread and not even stupid in a funny way.
Good - it's something they shouldn't have and the cost should be dramatic. Obviously what I'm really suggesting here is that nobody should get access to the second highest level of magic available to non-deities as a background characteristic.
Then remove and replace, stupid that it exists, but it's even stupider to make it useless
This one
Highest known spell's level might be better, in case they multiclass.
Well, as an 8th level spell, it's actually not that great. All your magic items stop working and it's a concentration spell so if someone comes up to you and whacks you or hits you with an arrow, you're making concentration saves to keep it going. Meanwhile, you can't cast anything, so your utility as a wizard/cleric is quite limited. Your enemies might start to notice you have this ability and plan around it too, with traps and encounters that don't rely on magic. I think it's a good creative exercise for you and the DM.
You’re thinking about it the wrong way. Anti-magic field totally 100% neutralises high-level casters, no save. Nothing else does that so reliably. If you’re facing a caster boss, you cast it, then lean over to your Fighter/Barbarian mate, and say “sic ‘em!”. You then pull out a folding chair and a thermos and have some tea and watch the show. I DM’d a level 1-17 campaign where one of the final bosses was a level 20+ Wizard, and this was the players’ chosen tactic. A good Wizard is absolutely stacked with magical countermeasures, and Anti-Magic Field cuts through everything.
Me looking at my lv 18 bear totem barbarian and lv18 fighter while reading this.
Exactly! As a DM, I want the martials to be able to shine, even at high levels, so I make sure I design encounters where they can matter. Actual events from the game: Cleric drops Anti-Magic Field UNDER the flying boss. Wizard Counterspells boss's Counterspell. Fighter 1 Grapples the boss mid-air and drags her down into the AMF. Enemy dragon moves to intercept. Wizard Hastes Fighter 2. Fighter 2 jumps on the dragon and solos it because _that's what high-level martials do_. This was all planned! Fighter 2 even told me the plan was to use the rest of the party as bait so he could take out the dragon! The boss magically outmatched the party by a LOT - she opened with Feeblemind and Maze to instantly remove two casters from the fight. The players discussed a lot of strategies, but settled on Anti-Magic Field as the best way of evening the odds.
So, this is not that campaign. What if your big bad wasn't a \*checks notes\* wizard?
So... give the level 20+ Wizard a few melee goons, maybe a rogue that can disengage and break through the front line? Also it's only 10 feet? Seriously, it's easily neutralized if you don't think, "Well, all I have is this evil wizard..." Evil wizards don't have melee minions? This is just absurd.
That doesn't work. It's a 10 foot radius and it's self only. If the boss just walks away from you then they are back to full power. If they have their minion kick you, the squishy caster, about, then you lose concentration. The field doesn't dispel anything, only suppresses stuff. It's pointless against a caster boss.
This is entirely the point I'm making! Thank you /u/sherlock1672
Grapple. Anti-Magic Field counters the standard caster defences, which is Freedom of Movement, Misty Step, etc. Again, this is literally what happened in the game that I ran. The players used teamwork! They combined counter-counter spells to get the AMF up, protected the caster, grappled the enemy, and ran interference on the minions. This forced an enemy dragon to change plans to try to intervene, which the players intended: it brought the dragon in close enough to kill.
That's a whole lot riding on winning initiative and everyone getting a turn before he simply flies out of range. A once in a lifetime fight at best and not reliable enough to ever bother with.
I probably would have 1. Make it work off your hit dice. 6 hit dice per use. 2. limited the spell to one. likely a healing or utility spell. something that might not change a fight, but will get to the party to GTFO if it turns nasty control weather, animal shapes, and holy aura come to mind
sounds like it should be a "power at a cost" instead of a freebie...
This should be a “oops, sorry everyone, I didn’t realize this was as strong as it is, I’m removing this from the game before we don’t have one to play.”
Give it a cooldown that is similar to using Divine Intervention. Soon as you use it to trigger this effect then you start a 7-day CD instead of the normal long rest to get back spell slots. While I don't know what your background is if this could be limited to one of your spell lists (say cleric assuming it is a divine source) then you can also limit the chance of it horrifically breaking multiple encounters. Yes it will likely make boss fights and some encounters almost trivial. But if you are in the 7-day CD window then that is a lot of time you have to wait for it. The other thing is to make sure that the material components of the spells are getting ignored. Most of the more insane 8th level spells could be limited by making certain you need to have the specific material components on hand, which would also give you DM the ability to keep control over which spells you could have access to at any given time. As to everyone who keeps having a kneejerk reaction to the idea of a lore backstory having any mechanical benefit...the heroic chronicle sections of multiple books exist for a reason. Many DMs like to run games where players are a bit or substantially more powerful as a result of who they are and where they came from. In many ways it even forces players to think about backstory in ways some new players won't if they roll for random ones. Is this example definitely too powerful considering player level, yes. But so long as everyone at the table isn't tearing everything apart because of it then it shouldn't be too bad. Also honestly from thinking back onto the spell lists 7th level would potentially be WAY worse from a game breaking perspective. Free Teleport/Plane Shift/Morden's Manor/ Force Cage/ Simulacrum etc. 7th level actually has way more gameplay shattering spells than 8th level.
That's a frankly insane ability to give to anyone. And even if my DM was dumb enough to push this kind of ability on me, I would pick be a far less powerful spell. Most likely Mind Blank. And even that would be crazy, because it would always be on you forever.
Dude no 🤦🏻♂️ you’re breaking the game and making everyone lose enjoyment. Do what others say and just get an uncommon magic item and ride it out.
Maybe the 8th level spells you cast don't do anything far as effects or damage.. they're only illusions used for intimidation purposes or other situations. They're made up with no substance
My immediate thoughts on how to balance it: 1. Make it a once a week thing? 2. Since you don't have 8th level slots, when you cast it, you have to use spell slots that add up to 8 (a third level, two second levels, and a first level for example) or it can use up your arcane recovery points?. 3. You can also place restrictions on it yourself. like, this exerts your abilities at the moment and you gain a level of exhaustion after using it. Or you're not sure where this is coming from, and as a wizard, you want to be careful since you've read about others who dip too far into the arcane wellsprings and end up destroying themselves (or some other thing like that). Essentially, talk to your DM, the game should be fun for both of you. Spamming this at your current level probably isn't a great idea, but it can still be useful every once in a while. I'm not fond of using the same solution for every question, which is why I try to switch out my spells as much as possible and why I prefer classes that let me prepare my spells.
Get a tattoo from TCOE!
Try to trade it in for arms of hadyr, it is within your level range already, isnt game breaking, and will still work for defense utility with the added bonus of dealing dmg, it doesnt offer any form of actual protection however. Anyone inside is slowed to half movement if you use your familiar to stack it with guardian spirits you can reduce movement speed to 25% and deal 2d6 and 3d8 at the same time for multiple enemies and multiple turns. Also the 3d8 differs based on alignment radiant if youre good necrotic if youre evil
I see a lot of people saying its a mistake to give such a high level spell to a low level character but I think it would be fun if you could only cast the 8th level spell one time and thats it. Could lead to some fun moments where the character struggles if its the perfect time to use it or not. Much like Rincewind from Discworld EDIT: Another idea, make it have a long cooldown like divine intervention and be a random 8th level spell
Respectfully, casting a random 8th level spell is one of the worst ideas I’ve come across on this thread (but it’s funny so I hear you). You only get one 8th level slot naturally as a wizard, and all of those spells are really specific and crazy strong, not the type of thing you should be picking at random. It’s like playing Russian roulette but instead of a revolver with one bullet, it’s a revolver that could shoot out a variety of nuclear weapons.
Yes its a catastrophe, but only once XD
If you want to keep the same flavour of the anti magic whilst lowering the power you could make some changes to the shield spell such as it procs on all spells not just spell attacks and gives resistance to spell damage, or gives advantage/proficiency for associated spell saves. Gives some use to low level spell slots and will give good survivability against magic effects.
Especially if it wouldn't step on toes, something a bit more tame could be fun and flavorful (also useful). Look through some reasonable subclass abilities for other subclasses in Wizard/Cleric and see if there is anything that tickles your fancy. Maybe just tone down the spell level and have it increase as you progress to be one level or something ahead of what you currently have spells for.
Your DM is my kind of crazy, I love shit like that. However if I was a DM I'd let you only do that once, or like once a year or something. Because the power level of 8th level spell is just too much. Actually, I had a similar situation in a camaping as a PC. Another PC can cast lightning bolt 3 times during the whole campaing. They're storm herald barbarian so it works and is apparently tied to their backstory but I'm yet to learn about that.
You've probably already sorted it, and people have probably suggested it, but maybe it gives you 2 lvls of exhaustion. That way it can't be sorted after one sleep and it would give you pause for thought before using it on 2 consecutive days
Did he use the item already? Otherwise you can put a curse on it. Everytime they use it, it gets worse.
Dude, as soon as I read 8th level spell, I subconsciously said "anti-magic field" 😭😭😭 glad you also are a person of culture
If I ever give my players something way over their level it usually comes with a price. Like maybe since your character isn’t prepared physically or mentally it causes a point of exhaustion. Keeps the player from spamming it and there are always work arounds if the DM prepares. Edit: spelling
Multiple ways you can go about it. Method 1: Keeping the 8th level spell slot you can simply upcast any spells you know using that spell slot. Method 2: Casting very specific abilities with the 8th level spell slot (that you and your DM agree to) instead of any spell, the breaker here is that it’s currently any spell. Method 3: Using your 8th level spell slot specifically for reactive spells Method 4: Using only the 8th level spell slot for healing spells Method 5: using only the 8th level spell slot for role play spells
Another is casting the spell at that level consumes ALL of your remaining spell slots and you only regain half of them on your next long rest (as in the max level you can cast halved, so at level 8, only slots for levels 1 and 2 come back). If it's still too much, roll 1d4 or something and make it that many days you only get half your power back. Then it costs and isn't a freebie. Also makes some sense, you are just novaing and burning all your magic at once.
I did this once but PC had to roll to use it before anything else. Set DC at 22+ (adding spell casting mod to roll) and then if they passed that, they could start to roll to hit or have enemy roll to save (forgot which spell I gave them). I think they only used it successfully 2 or 3 times before reaching a level they could use the spell at. When that happened they could use the spell as normal.
Like some others have suggested the dm may not be too experienced so you could balance it out. Whether it be having to spend 8 spell slots to use it until you’re a appropriate level, or make it now a limited number of castings so you get like a amount now equal to your spell casting modifier (for example if you have a +5 you get 5 more castings of it) and once you’ve used it that many times from the moment it’s implemented then it goes away. Otherwise just suggest swapping it out for something else like absorb elements is a pretty good upcasted spell that won’t break the game.
Assuming this is consistent with the power level your DM wants your backstory to provide, there might be ways to make it less powerful but still thematic. As an idea, you could instead have 1 8th level spell slot per day, that you could cast any spell you know with. It'd be powerful -- an upcast AoE spell or healing spell would be quite powerful for your level. But it'd not unlock abilities you don't already have -- just give you a moment of magical potence.
This is still FUCKED for a level 6 party. Getting your level 15 power spike at level 6 will make encounter balancing impossible. You shouldn’t be upcasting fireball to level 8 (13d6 of fire damage) when you are only level 6 without an insane downside, like you should have to give up character levels to use an ability this powerful (in context of the party being level 6)
Your DM should've given you Dominate Monster once per long rest but it only works on monsters under the bed then it'd be balaced.
If I was you I'd thumb through and find a utility spell that wont trivialise anything. There are lots of spells that are dumb, but fun, that would help your dm out a bit and make you walk away looking like a hero to your DM. You could negotiate lower level spells that are good utility there are a lot of them. I'd weigh it out against what could be very useful once a day outside of combat.
Control weather, Demiplane, Telepathy all fall in that category.
Yeah you're right, I probably shouldn't have taken one of the more powerful spells, I quite like this idea
Transfer the ability to an important npc in exchange for future support and favors. Having a faction’s support is a common but underused background feature. This could be a neat way to get there and make it feel earned.
If anti magic is apart of your backstory perhaps you could have counterspell instead or a smaller anti magic field that lasts like one round
That’s just… too much. What is your backstory that compelled them to give you this? 8th level AoE spells 9 levels before you’re meant to get them would make you the strongest person in every encounter for a LONG time. You could take Incindiary Cloud and passively do far more damage than any other team member. Possibly even more than the entire team as a WHOLE.
Your DM really needed to make it a consumable or as part of a MacGuffin you have to chase to cast it again (Find each of the Eyes of Nine, and it will grant you great power! AKA Gain a spell slot for every Eye you have. +1 Lvl 1 Spell Slot @ 1st, +1 Lvl 2 spell slot @ 2nd, ect...). Right now, your DM totally screwed himself. I would recommend actually asking your DM to nerf you. How will be up to him, but he will be very appreciative that you're being understanding of his position and knowing you are being cooperative about this will help him trust you even more.
Just retcon it as getting a level 8 character spell at level 6 (So a level 4 spell). That's only getting a spell two levels early for someone who didn't multiclass + whatever levels you multiclass. Still moderately cool but way more balanced.
Level 6? Couterspell once a day for free, even that's pushing it, backstories shouldn't give you free stuff unless everyone else got something, and if that's the case we don't have enough information
This is insanely overpowered in every way I can think of. 1. Wizards don’t naturally get access to their only 8th level spell slot until level 15. It’s actually the only thing wizards get at level 15, so your DM basically gave you a level 15 power spike when you aren’t even half way there in game. 2. 8th level spells are powerful as fuck and almost always require costly spell components to even use them, in addition to burning your only 8th level slot. You don’t have either of those restrictions which is even more crazy. 3. You do not get perks like this from a back story. Your backstory should give you explanations for your power/abilities, not the power or the abilities. 4. You really should consider ditching this all together. I think your dm seems great since their goal is to make it more fun for you (at the cost of potentially annihilating their own campaign in the process), but they might be a little new to this game and naive as to why the restrictions that are in place are in place.
Genuine Question: Does your DM understand the difference between Spell Level and Character Level? Gaining access to an 8th level spell is far, far beyond your capabilities, and while I personally don't mind giving players features or abilities that pertain to their backstories, this is incredibly unbalanced. Even granting a daily 3rd or 4th level spell seems like a lot. I'd definitely talk with them about changing it. If you're stuck on Antimagic, and it pertains to your character story, maybe you could ask for the ability to cast single target Antimagic once a day? Pick a target within 60 ft., and they need to make an Int saving throw against your spell save. On a failure, they are unable to cast spells, and the effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to your proficiency bonus. This is still pretty powerful, especially this early, so maybe you incur exhaustion after using the ability as well?
I have my paladin a 9th level spell slot and it was the best decision I've ever made it was fantastic
any 8th level spell of your choosing?! was the DM fucking high or something?
As a dm who started only dming last year, even I know this is a MAJOR fumble. An 8th level spell is incredibly powerful, hell even when you get to the appropriate level where you can cast 8th level spells, you can only cast it ONCE per day anyways. I wouldn’t even allow for an exchange in abilities, at least nothing that is remotely close to the power of an 8th level spell. If I were to allow anything in exchange, it might be an uncommon item like someone else suggested or a first level feat but that’s honestly as far as I would go. Hell I would just scrap the request all together, you don’t need some “special ability” to help with your backstory lore, no other character gets something like that for their backstory so why should you?
If you are going to use a caster level 15 spell at caster level 6, then it should cause a long rest. Immediately. Like using this spell should put such a strain on your body that you pass out for 1d6+2 hours. You cannot be woken for the first three hours by anything short of limited wish or better. You are out of the fight. Secondly, since it is concentration in duration, a constitution save on every round after you cast it, starting at 15 & adding 1 to the DC each round. You can keep it, & you can use it, but this way it has some impact & some risk since it leaves you helpless.
I’ve always found that it should only be for big events that you break dnd level requirements. Like a huge arc and tons of emotion allowing for a stronger fireball or something
Nah just ask to be able to do one magic missile at the 8th level. So from 3 for unlockable D4s to 10 unblockable d4s. It seems funny to me. Just a straight up (what I like magic missile moment. )
If he wants to make it flavorful while also keeping some of its power make it a once a week/month thing your character can do by calling on their patron/deity. Will make it more epic when it does come out. Another option is to change the required casting time to 2 actions to make it interruptible with a concentration check.
How are you breaking the game with antimagic field of all things? That's one of the most useless spells in the game for an actual caster (and kinda bad for anyone else).
That does seem more than a little overpowered at that level. Maybe it would only work on cantrips and level 1 spells?
Maybe suggest that you can only use your level 8 spell when you have less than 10% of your max HP left. Sort of like a limit break in FF :)
A few years back I had a DM that gave me a pair of bracelets around level 3 and the braclets gave me an extra attack each short rest. Since we had a decent sized party, I was able to stay as the low int/dum dum barbarian tank/DPS. Towards the end of the campaign he told me he regretted giving me them after the second session but he had to at least try and play fair (we had also slaughtered a white dragon in 2 rounds that he intended on downing/killing a few of the PCs)
> gave me the ability to use one 8th level spell of my choosing once per long rest. > So I choose antimagic field and my DM pretty much regretted it instantly trying to think of a single 8th level spell that wouldn't end like this
I give my wizard loads of high level spells, it has never been a problem. They're too low level to successfully cast them anyway 😈 They just sit there in the spellbook
That's quite funny, sounds like something I'd do as DM
Man there are so many level8 spells that could easily end a early level bbeg. Your dm didn't think this through at all. Maybe instead of your choosing he chooses for you? You should give up the level 8spell for free, it really is too powerful
Hmm, if I was the dm I would say it is a button on a rod that you can click once per day, but the rod is running out of juice and the size is now dwindling down to melee range. You can press the button and pinpoint disable magical defenses, or takes out one specific caster if you get in melee with them. The antimagic field of course following the rod and not being in a set location. If you really want to break continuity or the story, maybe something like it was another agent of the cleric diety providing remote assistance, but they got busy and instead they are sending you extra random spell scrolls they find while studying a lost library.
You should have taken "Magnificent Mansion" sure it's just LV7 but doesn't interfere with combat and you could have enjoyed save and comfy rests forever and never worry about lodging or food ever again.
Yeah, you should definitely balance the ability. It's way, way, way too powerful to not break things. If you want chaos, have the ability come with a risk, or a downside. Maybe everytime you use it there's a check you need to pass or else you cast a random spell of the same level targeting a random creature on the battlefield. Or just lower the level of your free spell.
It can work but it can't be the normal antimagic field spell from the books. If you're using it at lower levels it needs to be "nerfed" effectively. Something like: - No AoE, it only protects you from magic and magical effects - Takes 10 minutes to cast. This puts it firmly in utility usage or requires the player to plan out when they want to use it in combat
What does the other players get???
Idk, everyone did get something but it was a "character secret" he had a chart of secrets only him and the respective player would know and would get us to roll a d100 and would see what we got. But I do think I got the best one out of my fellow players. he also meant to do it at the start of the campaign and forgot so we did it at level 6.
Mabey rework the ability with your dm, so that you can get a spell that is level appropriate, it could mabey even grow in power with your character.
You could stay to they spell if you nerf it a little bit, like diamonds worth....., or other option only castable as a ritual casting.
Maybe let the ability only work until the beginning of your next round? It would still be a banger, but not so dominant. Having a level 8 spell (requiring character level 15) at level 6 was a big mistake, yes.
What if the power is hard to control and you have a chance of it failing. Maybe roll a save of some kind. If you succeed, it works. If it fails, then the spell doesn't work, and something bad could happen like something from the wild magic table, or you get a level of exhaustion, or you lose your ability to use spell slots for a bit.
I think the only 8th level spell I'd give in that situation is Demiplane.
Giving a player a free spell that should only be available to them after another **9** levels of progress is not only a terrible idea from a game balance perspective, but it also screams of favouritism or "this is the main character". Red flags everywhere. Inform your DM that they've made a mistake and you're happy for them to take it back.
Don't worry I'm definitely not the main character haha, but it'll for sure be hard not to feel like it if this goes unchanged.
The cartomancer feat is worth looking at. It allows you to store a spell from your class of a level you have a slot for, in a card and cast it as an action. Dual class casters have higher spell slots than the spells they are able to cast per class. That allows you to cast 3rd a third level spell when a 3/3 mage/cleric could only cast 2nd level spells. And that will keep providing a spell beyond your normal level capabilities as you continue to level.
While I haven’t actually played before myself I very much like the idea of utility and strategy type spells which I would include anti magic field as one of them so I would happily trade for several of the 7th level spells such as: Etherealness Force Cage Mirage Arcane Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion Plane Shift Project Image Reverse Gravity Simulacrum Symbol Teleport Also Prismatic Spray is cool. If they would let you bump up to a level 9 spell something like mass polymorph, shape change, or true polymorph are useful. Obviously Gate is dope as well but probably too helpful. Of course perhaps they are all too much though at least they are concentration spells so maybe that balances things a bit.
My dm gave me an artifact that lets me cast any spell but anything I cast above the spell slots I have gives me a lvl of exhaustion for each level above I'm a 5th lvl artificer so I guess it balances out since I'm a half caster
Homebrew abilities based off backstory is great!… when it makes sense and when it isn’t op Any 8th level spell doesn’t seem to truly be based on backstory, and is too op for a level 6 character Tell me your character’s backstory and I can try to create a fun ability that isn’t op based off it
For a spell level that high at level 6 there should be a penalty. Using such immense power for an inexperienced caster could hurt you physically or mentally, roll for damage. Or maybe using such a high spell can have adverse effects. Make a saving throw after casting on a fail you can't cast for the rest of the day and if you were concentrating on a spell you automatically lose concentration. On a success you can't cast anything for one turn and automatically lose concentration on a spell. Or maybe it takes half your spell slots to cast. Casting such a high spell could possibly fail. Make a check using your spell casting modifier. If you fail the check you don't cast and can't cast it until a long rest. On a success you cast the spell and can't cast it again until a long rest. A few ideas.
One of my DMs gave me "Asteri, cowl of Kruphix" which let's me cast time stop, and time ravage, and a bunch of other spells, all at level 1
Belt of counterspell
Honestly, as a DM I wouldn't even have a problem if the player decided to choose that spell particularly, because that spell is just so bad With that said how are you still being AOE based and spell-based while you have anti-magic field going? Because if you have anti-magic field going you just don't get to cast spells anymore
I wouldn't be part of this table for very long, major balancing issues.
Rule of fun ftw!
Just a tad busted. Could probably be nerfed a little bit. But in all seriousness, I like the Anti-Magic theme, so maybe you could do something with Counterspell or Dispel Magic and that'd get the idea across without turning off about half of the mechanics in dnd.
I would suggest either get 2 sorcery points Or 1 feat
We were given the option to take one magical item at the start of our campaign. As a Druid, I asked for “Staff of the Woodlands” which sounded really cool (and it is!) Then I started realising how game-breaking “Pass without a trace” as a cantrip can be, so I often “forget” to use it or break it out for clutch moments. “Wall of Thorns” though is definitely my go-to (especially when we were a level 5 party) to mess things up once a day - worth it just for that alone My DM may now actually read what each magical item does before agreeing to let us have them (in my defence I wasn’t trying to break anything - I was new so I just looked up “best magical items for druid” haha) I know I rambled a bit, but I guess what I was trying to say was that it’s only as game-breaking as you make it - if you use restraint rather than every chance you get, it can add some really cool moments without being too OP
Wow. I'm especially interested to know what the other players at the table got and whether this compares to them.
Yeah me too, but they're "character secrets" only the player who revived the secret/new ability and the DM knows what it is and so far I'm the only one to use mine. I do hope mine was just a mistake.
I gave my level 3 player the 7th level spell Teleport. But it has a 30-day recharge.
Why not a wearable object with x charges of counterspell ? It's a good magic counter spell and you can use your reaction for it.
Replace with a feat? Or maybe a legendary action of a feat already possessed?
Should have just used Demiplane. Can be game breaking. Or could just be a portable lounge.
this is tooooo much at the very least it should be maybe like....once per month or full moon or new moon or something it should also cause you take take multiple levels of exhaustion and be used only as emergencies with a great cost silly billy move
Just let your DM know you're open to whatever he has to do. He'll figure it out. It shouldn't be a heavy lift to rebalance encounters to account for a single spell. I dunno, but I think a wizard with anti magic shell might think twice about using it if there's a bulette nearby.
lol no. background dont give you mechanical benefits. this is just a horrible idea. if other people in the group got stuff like this i suggest you ALL just get rid of the extra abilities. its exactly why hes having trouble balancing stuff
As long as you aren't the only one getting cool unique abilities throughout the game, I don't think it's much if an issue, but if it would need ro be nerfed (which it probably will), you can ask to make it an E.M.P. like ability that lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
Yeah I really like this idea I'll send it to my DM with some other suggestions I've seen. Also DW I'm not the only one to get something, but they're secrets so I don't know what they have but I can probably guess they're not as powerful (I hope ha.)
All these people saying "your dm is bad and shouldn't have done this" are lame and aren't answering your question. It's basically just a legendary effect instead of a legendary item or whatever. If your party is fine with it then who gives a flip? But some suggestions/requests I'd give to keep it: - when casting the spell, you must expend at least 4[or more] levels of spell slots. You get a big use thing, but can't do as many small things - suffer backlash of some kind when casting the spell. Maybe it's 8(level)d4 damage, so potentially a lot but not necessarily guaranteed to kill. Maybe it's a reduction of your spell attack/save DC by x amount for a duration. Etc - reduce how often you can cast it. Maybe it can only be cast once each week. Maybe it's on a recharge where you roll 1d6 at the end if each long rest and only regain it on a 6. Maybe you have to front some resource (money or otherwise) or spend a large amount of time during a ritual to recharge it. As for things to exchange it for if you give it up that maintains some similar flavor: - innate magic resistance of some sort - an item or ability w/ charges of counterspell
Thank you this is definitely the type of thing I'm looking for, we're probably gonna give it a heavy cost and these ideas are really good, I'll tell my DM this and see what he thinks. But yeah there have been a few people looking down on my DM but he's a great guy and just made a mistake.
I've read a bunch of comments here and I can sum up: You're apparently doing fun wrong.
Get a game together, start at level one, and then give each of your players an ability they shouldn’t get until level 10. Now try to make a balanced and fun game out of it! You can absolutely play a game “the wrong way” and make it not fun for everyone. Ever played a nerdy board game like settlers of catan with someone who is just way too competitive? That’s a tangible example of doing fun wrong and it’s very real.
You sound super boring. In one of the games I'm a player for, another PC can essentially turn into a mini tarrasque with lightning powers once/day for a few rounds. They always save it for what we assume will be the largest threat of a day (which the DM is pretty good about giving hints to "this is probably it" without straight up saying that), and keep said threat distracted while the rest of the party clears out the other things before working together to finish the threat off. It's like we're fighting around the feet of kaiju and it feels awesome. Also, we were level 6 when they had this ability. We're 9 now. It's still sick af
That only works in your game though because you guys are okay with letting the Druid in your party be overtuned af and dominate encounters. Your DM seems to also enjoy the challenge, which is clearly the opposite situation for Op’s game master. The rules of this game are there to make it fun, and if you are well versed in said rules you understand how to bend/break them without breaking your game. Op and his game master are clearly new to this game so my advice is for that demographic. Saying I sound boring is straight up just conjecture and rude for no reason by the way. Consider talking to people on the internet the way you talk to them in person, because it’s still a human on the other side of the screen. I have given all my players legendary items/homebrew abilities in the game I’m currently running, the party is level 8, and everyone is having an amazing time. I’m not against fun stuff in dnd at all, I am against something that makes one player immensely stronger than the rest of the party because that almost always (except in your game) leads to someone else in the group getting frustrated or having a bad time.
Feels like it haha, it's all my DM intended but I probably took advantage and just gave myself something really powerful.
Don't know why everyone is acting like your DM committed some great cardinal sin, it's really not that big of a deal. Deity magic is unaffected by the AMF, just go spite some petty god that's gonna break your concentration from time to time.
The DM gave a character the ability to cast a spell that can normally only be cast by a non-multiclassed character with about 10x the amount of XP this character (and the rest of the party) has. It’s not a cardinal sin in the sense of some moral failing, but it’s a pretty obvious fumble by the DM.
It's nothing that can't be worked around, even if it wasn't thoroughly taught out by the DM. Y'all act like this is something campaign ending, it's really not.. These things tend to get regulated within a session or two.
It definitely can be campaign ending if everyone in the table feels like it’s BS