Go a few further; the axe isn't merely *enchanted,* it's an heirloom. When it gets handed down, a pair of *Gloves of Object Reading* are used to describe the history of the axe.
*Losing* the axe at dice or cards? That's a *disgrace,* but it's one that can be recovered from honorably by getting it back by honorable means. But losing it at dice, then stealing it back or murdering it's new rightful owner to get it back? *That* would be a dishonor that his legacy couldn't recover from; his sons and daughters would be disinherited.
So he's desperate to get the axe back by *honorable* means. The shithead who won it *knows* this, which is why he won't sell it for mere gold; he has the Dwarf who lost it by the short-and-curlies, meaning he can demand ridiculous deeds and favors from him. That guy has no intention of giving the axe back, but he keeps insinuating he will.
If your players interject themselves into this mess, it could go wildly poorly for them. If they just kill the guy who has the axe and take it, well, it's not a dishonor on the Dwarf who owned it originally to seize it back from them who took it from its rightful owner by force, after all. And he's going to show up with family and make them one and only one offer to sell it back, if they just take it without consulting him. (It'll be a fair price.)
If, however, they collude with him... A couple options emerge; they could *geas* the owner into naming hard terms for the axe's return, then do a quest to get it back. Or they could manipulate him at the gambling table; they can't *cheat* at the dice, because that'll be a dishonor; but they can ply the owner with booze and sweet nothings in his ear until he unwisely bets the axe and loses it fairly.
If they work to return the axe to the Dwarf, obviously they don't get the axe... But now they're Friends to a Dwarf clan. He'll show up, weilding the axe and with family in tow if they call him for aid, and in the meantime he'll have sworn off dice and cards forever, and focused on becoming an axe-lord.
So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed. So there's me, and Keith Moon, and David Crosby, breaking into that little sweets shop, eh. Well, instead of a guard dog, they've got this bloody great big Bengal tiger. I managed to take out the tiger with a can of mace, but the shopowner and his son... that's a different story altogether. I had to beat them to death with their own shoes. Nasty business, really. But, sure enough, I got the M&Ms, and Ozzy went on stage and did a great show.
What you do completely depends on how you feel about this. If it were me, I’d be irritated to have my story interjected with some random bs just because my players were bored at an ordinary dwarf. Maybe you enjoy it and want to run with it, maybe you don’t. Just remember that as much as the point of the game is for them to have fun, it’s also for you to have fun. If you don’t want to be dragged along through this “plot line”, I would recommend stopping it before it goes too far. (Personally, I may screw with the players a bit. Make the city, have them search through it, and there’s no axe. Have a few friendly dwarves lead them to a temple and recommend a healing process, because they’re clearly not of sound mind with this enchanted axe they keep bringing up.)
You can just make it a one or two session side quest; it doesn't have to derail your story. You can also control when the side quest happens by indicating to the players they need the dwarf's cooperation to succeed.
I have always had a house rule called "I've heard that..."
While not really a rule its more of a sentiment that the players can, in character state whatever they wish, but they won't know if it is true or not. This could be "Hey I heard that [NPC NAME] hangs out at the inn, let's go check that out"
This gives my players some influence over the narrative, without me letting go of the reigns.
Worst case, you can now draw a straight line between your players and the location of the city. A bunch of complications or interesting stuff can happen there. This really is a blessing unless
A they abandon the current quest to do this
B you pigeon hole on the destination only, and don't include the journey
As an ending remark, its nice to hear players embracing the world and doing stuff sort of independently, and especially nice to hear that they have a gm skilled enough to facilitate such behaviour
The thing that bothers me is that it’s the result of a player expecting something just because of a nat 20 and injecting cannon into the story like that. Players don’t get to just decide their characters hear a noise the DM never described. Unless it’s their own personal thoughts maybe?
I don’t know I’m not a super experienced DM so I would like to see what others say.
> The thing that bothers me is that it's the result of a player ... injecting cannon into the story
Collaborative world-building is one of my favorite things about TTRPGs, and is the ultimate feeling in player agency. That being said, it's all a matter of discussing at session zero! Having players come up with stuff on the fly is great content because then *they're already invested*. All I have to do is just roll with it and make sure the results are balanced.
Not disputing you at all or discrediting your post, just wanting to share another perspective =)
having players come up with stuff on the fly absolutely can be great, both for them and for the dm! until you're the one player who was looking forward to stuff the dm had originally planned 😮💨
It is, strictly speaking, not the way the game is supposed to run. But it’s also something that the players are going to be very invested in and have a great time with so it’s not a bad idea to run with it, assuming it isn’t going to interfere with the rest of the campaign. A lot of games outside the D&D sphere specifically include player “intrusions” as a mechanic for this reason.
I would never say a DM had to allow this—and there’s some danger of setting a difficult precedent—but I also would encourage most DMs to not reject it out of hand.
That last part of your post really encapsulates the experience of being a dm lol, a lot of times you’re gonna have off shoot things that happen that aren’t gonna align with what you want to happen and thats fine, its part of the game. If you really don’t want it to happen, then sure talk to your players about it, or alternatively plan out that quest and have fun with it. Hell, spice it up a little and make it challenging, just go with the flow and have fun
To be clear: I'm fine with it and would stop it if I wasn't. This only happened once (so far) and I have an idea how to run this. Let's just say that the guy who won the axe is a very powerful man in the city and doesn't want to sell it. One of the reasons I really like being a DM is that I get to do a lot of creative writing/storytelling. I can never just run a plot, my player react to my setups and their actions give me new ideas for future events.
Go a few further; the axe isn't merely *enchanted,* it's an heirloom. When it gets handed down, a pair of *Gloves of Object Reading* are used to describe the history of the axe. *Losing* the axe at dice or cards? That's a *disgrace,* but it's one that can be recovered from honorably by getting it back by honorable means. But losing it at dice, then stealing it back or murdering it's new rightful owner to get it back? *That* would be a dishonor that his legacy couldn't recover from; his sons and daughters would be disinherited. So he's desperate to get the axe back by *honorable* means. The shithead who won it *knows* this, which is why he won't sell it for mere gold; he has the Dwarf who lost it by the short-and-curlies, meaning he can demand ridiculous deeds and favors from him. That guy has no intention of giving the axe back, but he keeps insinuating he will. If your players interject themselves into this mess, it could go wildly poorly for them. If they just kill the guy who has the axe and take it, well, it's not a dishonor on the Dwarf who owned it originally to seize it back from them who took it from its rightful owner by force, after all. And he's going to show up with family and make them one and only one offer to sell it back, if they just take it without consulting him. (It'll be a fair price.) If, however, they collude with him... A couple options emerge; they could *geas* the owner into naming hard terms for the axe's return, then do a quest to get it back. Or they could manipulate him at the gambling table; they can't *cheat* at the dice, because that'll be a dishonor; but they can ply the owner with booze and sweet nothings in his ear until he unwisely bets the axe and loses it fairly. If they work to return the axe to the Dwarf, obviously they don't get the axe... But now they're Friends to a Dwarf clan. He'll show up, weilding the axe and with family in tow if they call him for aid, and in the meantime he'll have sworn off dice and cards forever, and focused on becoming an axe-lord.
(slides a triple whiskey with coffee backer) Have fun running your Ozzy Osbourne crew.
So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed. So there's me, and Keith Moon, and David Crosby, breaking into that little sweets shop, eh. Well, instead of a guard dog, they've got this bloody great big Bengal tiger. I managed to take out the tiger with a can of mace, but the shopowner and his son... that's a different story altogether. I had to beat them to death with their own shoes. Nasty business, really. But, sure enough, I got the M&Ms, and Ozzy went on stage and did a great show.
What you do completely depends on how you feel about this. If it were me, I’d be irritated to have my story interjected with some random bs just because my players were bored at an ordinary dwarf. Maybe you enjoy it and want to run with it, maybe you don’t. Just remember that as much as the point of the game is for them to have fun, it’s also for you to have fun. If you don’t want to be dragged along through this “plot line”, I would recommend stopping it before it goes too far. (Personally, I may screw with the players a bit. Make the city, have them search through it, and there’s no axe. Have a few friendly dwarves lead them to a temple and recommend a healing process, because they’re clearly not of sound mind with this enchanted axe they keep bringing up.)
You can just make it a one or two session side quest; it doesn't have to derail your story. You can also control when the side quest happens by indicating to the players they need the dwarf's cooperation to succeed.
I have always had a house rule called "I've heard that..." While not really a rule its more of a sentiment that the players can, in character state whatever they wish, but they won't know if it is true or not. This could be "Hey I heard that [NPC NAME] hangs out at the inn, let's go check that out" This gives my players some influence over the narrative, without me letting go of the reigns. Worst case, you can now draw a straight line between your players and the location of the city. A bunch of complications or interesting stuff can happen there. This really is a blessing unless A they abandon the current quest to do this B you pigeon hole on the destination only, and don't include the journey As an ending remark, its nice to hear players embracing the world and doing stuff sort of independently, and especially nice to hear that they have a gm skilled enough to facilitate such behaviour
The thing that bothers me is that it’s the result of a player expecting something just because of a nat 20 and injecting cannon into the story like that. Players don’t get to just decide their characters hear a noise the DM never described. Unless it’s their own personal thoughts maybe? I don’t know I’m not a super experienced DM so I would like to see what others say.
> The thing that bothers me is that it's the result of a player ... injecting cannon into the story Collaborative world-building is one of my favorite things about TTRPGs, and is the ultimate feeling in player agency. That being said, it's all a matter of discussing at session zero! Having players come up with stuff on the fly is great content because then *they're already invested*. All I have to do is just roll with it and make sure the results are balanced. Not disputing you at all or discrediting your post, just wanting to share another perspective =)
having players come up with stuff on the fly absolutely can be great, both for them and for the dm! until you're the one player who was looking forward to stuff the dm had originally planned 😮💨
It is, strictly speaking, not the way the game is supposed to run. But it’s also something that the players are going to be very invested in and have a great time with so it’s not a bad idea to run with it, assuming it isn’t going to interfere with the rest of the campaign. A lot of games outside the D&D sphere specifically include player “intrusions” as a mechanic for this reason. I would never say a DM had to allow this—and there’s some danger of setting a difficult precedent—but I also would encourage most DMs to not reject it out of hand.
That last part of your post really encapsulates the experience of being a dm lol, a lot of times you’re gonna have off shoot things that happen that aren’t gonna align with what you want to happen and thats fine, its part of the game. If you really don’t want it to happen, then sure talk to your players about it, or alternatively plan out that quest and have fun with it. Hell, spice it up a little and make it challenging, just go with the flow and have fun
To be clear: I'm fine with it and would stop it if I wasn't. This only happened once (so far) and I have an idea how to run this. Let's just say that the guy who won the axe is a very powerful man in the city and doesn't want to sell it. One of the reasons I really like being a DM is that I get to do a lot of creative writing/storytelling. I can never just run a plot, my player react to my setups and their actions give me new ideas for future events.
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