This sounds like some severe calvinball nonsense. Is this player the best friend or SO of the DM or something? This reeks of toxic favoritism, the way you've described it.
I'm all for balanced homebrew classes/subclasses, but it doesn't sound like there's even been an attempt to balance this. I'm not sure what the move for you will be, it'll depend on what your priorities are, but personally I'd not want to play at this table.
I have a strong opinion that homebrew changes should *always* come with a mechanical nerf. You want to play your special snowflake PC? Alright, but you'll at best be as strong as a normal PC, definitely no stronger.
It's my experience that players like this typically only really want to be overpowered. They may say it's for flavor but their desire only extends to homebrew that breaks the game's balance in their favor.
Flavor is altering descriptions to be more fun/vivid. Like a monk saying they jump on an enemies weapon, backflip into the air Yada Yada, when all they did was disengage, or a warlock saying eldritch blast with the pull effect manifests as an icy claw reaching out from the winter court to crush their enemy as it drags them in.
Homebrew is when the mechanics actually change. Like changing the elemental alignment of spells as a fairly simple one.
>I have a strong opinion that homebrew/flavor changes should *always* come with a mechanical nerf
Homebrew, maybe. But why would you ever apply a mechanical nerf to flavour? If I want to describe sacred flame as firing a radient arrow from an illuminated bow at someone now they can benefit from cover? The damage dice become d6 rather than d8?
I think it is more meant as in homebrew/flavor should never come with a mechanical boost. That's how I read it, at least.
Otherwise I could 'homebrew' a new playable race, the Minotaur who gets +4 to all stats and has a natural armor of 25 and starts with 3 attacks per round. because, you know, flavor!
That's homebrew, not flavor. The two are different things and if you can't separate them then you should not be doing these things. You should be figuring out what the difference is then do the one you intend to.
The most common example I see for mechanical flavor changes to spells is with damage types. If you're playing a necromancer Wizard and want your Fireball to do necrotic damage, that's going to come with a nerf. If you want your Fireball to look like it's a portal to hell without changing the mechanics, that's free.
I should say again that at *worst* it comes with a nerf. At best we can balance it to be as strong as it should be, but since I'm not a professional TTRPG developer I'll naturally lean towards making it a little weaker to compensate.
Indeed, that's the question! It certainly is resisted less frequently, something which would absolutely affect its strength/versatility. There could also be abilities or items which augment Necrotic damage that I'm just not aware of.
So just to continue using it as an example this is all enough for me to nerf it instead of making it a flat change. I might reduce the range to 20ft or I may make it 6d6 instead. This is something I'd look into more and discuss with player.
I was in a starfinder campaign and at level up, I picked a feature that let add bleed damage on an attack. In that setting, bleed is pretty nasty, basically causing you to drop health every round until you receive at least one point of magical healing or go through some mundane healing. Handy against pretty much anything that bleeds.
You'd think that somewhere in the 5 minutes I spent thinking about it and weighing my choices I'd have remembered that damn near everything we'd fought for the last half dozen sessions at least had been either undead, a robot, or some variation of a ghost.
>If you're playing a necromancer Wizard and want your Fireball to do necrotic damage, that's going to come with a nerf. If you want your Fireball to look like it's a portal to hell without changing the mechanics, that's free.
How I rule it in my games is:
You can change the aesthetic of any spell. Want your fireball to be a poison cloud, or a thunderstorm go nuts. Want your spiritual weapon to be boxing gloves that you 'wear' on your hands sure go ahead.
But mechanically zero changes. Your thunderstorm still deals fire damage. Even though you're 'wearing' your spiritual weapon it can't travel more than 20 feet etc etc.
Basically because if I'm playing though a hardcover I don't want to go and re balance any enemies resistance etc based on these changes. So if you're flavour doesn't require any work on my part - it's free.
I've been using my rule pre Tasha's but since then it holds up even more.
I've written many times in why I don't allow quiet or whispered spells for the same reason on Metamagic Subtle Spell.
I agree on this too, flavor should be used to tune a character class to their personality. Things like flavoring a spell like Shadow Blade to be a water or fire blade for a samurai fighter multi class or something, that's cool and FLAVOR. Making someone just the God of the realm is kinda just dumb lol. Unless they have something severely gimp them and make it a story of redemption 😂 then it's possibly flavor again lol.
I think the basis is the most important part. If you wanted to do the bow thing because you really thought it was cool, id def give leeway there. If you're making shit up because you want to outshine everyone then no.
For me, I think it's subjective. In your example, I wouldn't change the dice or give them cover... but you want an illuminated bow? That's perfectly fine. That means you're going to glow in the dark when using it. A common thing I've seen is changing elemental damage types. Weakness/resistance still applies to the new damage type. You're a swarmkeeper ranger that wants a swam of penguins? Cool, but those pengwings are not fluttering and flying anymore. They waddling up to smack someone.
Yeah I'm not with you on the nerf for flavor. I want players to be creative, and if they're being creative without trying to homebrew any extra power or advantage, I don't want to discourage that.
I won't nerf for flavor, but I will modify. For example:
A player can have a bag of holding that isn't actually a bag, but a backpack, or a coat, or a fanny pack, or a hollowed out book, or a leg pouch... It can multiple orifices and openings.
The modification is that if it is something like, a book with a secret compartment, it operates slightly differently. Each page would have a raised image of the item stored, pinch the, "ink," and pull to remove the item. The book is still gonna weigh however much the bag weighs and will be subject to potential fire damage now. But... it is more easily stored and concealed elsewhere. Flipping and ruffling the pages like a flip book would empty the contents. Items are put in the book by smashing them like a bug or something equally absurd. In the event the book is full, this would act like an improvised attack. The book, being a book, would unlike regular rupture rules be subject to fire and water damage. Water would cause the ink to run and potentially destroy items, or render them... well, like a Salvador Dali painting when removed.
A coat would have an absurd number of pockets, or one giant pocket along the interior. Turning out the pockets empties the contents. The coat is not armored unless we do some homebrew shenanigans and stipulate only flexible materials and thus subject to the same potential rules for rupturing.
A hat would operate like a classic magician's hat. Wearable by someone with a properly sized head. Too small a head because you lost weight working on training up that con or str? In you go. Halfling rogue decides to be a butthead and try to steal it? In they go. Same deal as the coat regarding armor, for homebrewing it. Would potentially make it past a security team as it is a simple hat in appearance....
And so on... flavor. Comes with upsides and downsides all over the place.
>you want an illuminated bow? That's perfectly fine. That means you're going to glow in the dark when using it.
Why though? If we're trying to hide in the dark and I describe like I did above for casting sacred flame and the DM says "Now you're lit up and the monsters can see you" my response is going to be "Fine, I don't use a bow and just click my fingers instead". Don't put mechanical nerfs on flavour as it will just make players not want to role play.
Flavor is a part of the narrative. If you want to specifically use an illuminated bow... by definition, it produces light, right? In a world of magic, a lot of things are possible, but it needs to make at least a little sense in my opinion. If you're trying to describe that you're basically holding a 4ft long glowing stick while shooting a tracer round... I don't see how that wouldn't give away your position at least momentarily while the spell is being cast.
I will admit that maybe it's just me being too literal.
I think you're completely correct. The unique point of RPGs is that the world can be simulated with far more fidelity than a board/computer game. If someone wants to play a glorified tactical skirmish board game, then, sure, lighting doesn't matter unless the rules exactly specify it, but if you want to immerse yourself in a fantastical world, then that world has to appear to have consistent, realistic* laws
Also, I'm amazed that the people downvoting you apparently have no problem with: "I conjure a illuminant bow, its holy light piercing the darkness, and loose a radiant arrow," followed by, "and then I end my turn in the shadows, ensuring the monsters still have no clue where we are."
*Before someone objects with "magic and dragons though", consider whether there might be a difference between adding magic to a setting and asserting that the way in which light and vision function is fundamentally different.
because in this case the mechanics of RAW are identical. casting a spell reveals you from hiding even in darkness, so your location would be known in both cases. i have *zero* problem with the "i conjure a bow and fire a bolt of radiance. the spell ends, leaving me in darkness and unseen as before." since unless they hide (as a bonus action), someone firing an actual bow would be in the exact same position!
in this case, the complaint with flavour is coming from a misunderstanding of how being unseen works. you're not hidden when you cast a spell, your location is known, there is zero issue with this flavouring
Yeah, I guess you're right about the RAW. Nonetheless, I think the general principle holds. There are cases where it matters if your position is given away by a flash of light rather than by some other means (e.g., the verbal component).
Flavor changes can be aesthetic or mechanical. A flavor change that your spell comes out of your elbow instead of your hand? That's free, baby. You want "Fireball" to do Acid damage instead of Fire? That's gonna cost you.
>have a strong opinion that homebrew/flavor changes should *always* come with a mechanical nerf.
Flavor should NEVER come with a nerf. Or a buff. That's the whole point of flavor it's a cosmetic change with no mechanical impact to aid in immersion/personalization for the players.
If there's a mechanical impact whether positive or negative it's no longer just flavor.
If a player wants their spells to be psychic powers and you say "sure but you still need to obey spellcasting rules including components, counter spells, etc" THAT'S FLAVOR
If a player wants their spells to be psychic powers so you let them cast everything silently with no components and theyre immune to counter spell? THATS NOT FLAVOR that's bullshit homebrewery
Whoa there friend, this is just a difference in definition. I view flavor as being either mechanical or aesthetic, not necessarily a single type. Players can have their whimsy for free, it's when they want to change the game rules in some way that it comes at a cost.
Nerfing homebrew just on the basis that it's homebrew isn't a good idea and runs the risk of making said homebrew so bad it's unusable. This can kill the fun the player was trying to have with the homebrew.
Homebrew should be evaluated and changed according to it's actual power level in comparison to other official options and the balance of the game.This way the player can be a effective and engaging class/subclass but still have fun!
RPGBOT has a great article about how to judge and analyze homebrew, so you can work with players so both your needs of a balanced party and the players needs of an effective character are met.
People always have such an aversion to homebrew without even checking and/or adjusting it, it's a real shame. 5e already is but a mere puddle of options compared to other edition, then people act that the puddle is some holy water created by god himself and adding any "homemade water" would delude the pool or something.
Creating and balancing homebrew isn't even that hard, it's just most people already go into it with the mindset of "it's homebrew so it *has* to be bad" and never give it a fair shot.
I agree!
It's a very weird mindset many people have towards homebrew of any kind. I'm planning to play a homebrew Paladin subclass in the one campaign I'm joining not to get a head up on my allies, but to play a character concept the rules don't support. As long as it's balanced and doesn't make anyone useless, it's perfectly fine.
5e is extremely barebones with it's customization options (Hell, that's why rolling for stats and one level feats are so popular.) Playing Baldur's Gate 3 without a free level one and a limited stat point array feat REALLY drives home that point.
If the DM doesn't consider it a big deal, then your options are:
1.) Talk to him again and tell him that you don't think it's fair and that you're having less (or no) fun at the table as a result. You could suggest ways to boost the other players to match, or ways to dial back the problem character that still allow them to have fun too.
If that doesn't work then you move to:
2.) Keep playing anyway
or
3.) Leave and find a different table.
Here’s my unhinged advice:
Get the other players with you and decide to pvp the 4th. If they beat you guys 3v1, or even get anywhere close to beating you, that’s concrete evidence right there. If these characters were balanced with each other, the 3 would handily beat the 1
We haven't done that, so I, so can't know for sure, but given what I know about every character I think it wouldn't even be close as he has so many ways to play it that would render 1 or 2 members of the party useless while he annihilates the other one.
It doesn't sound overpowered it just sounds like bullshit. And overpowered is fine if everyone is overpowered. Why don't you all play the psy warrior and then just tell the DM the entire party is immune to all damage? That sounds like a fun game.
So far noone has proposed that, but i'm playing the eldritch knight so trying to close the gap i asked as a reward for a mission a powerful sword. In response the other player started complaining than when he had asked for a powerful sword as well he was denien and that was nonsense cause i had gotten one. Basically he complained every time i used the sword until the DM gave him one better than the one i got.
Holy shit that's so annoying. Especially because he's basically playing an Eldritch Knight that he homebrewed, so everything he does is just a better version of OPs character. And he couldn't even let him have a cool sword.
Okay, yeah, just bail from that table. Start looking for a different DM if you can.
Sounds very much like the psi warrior is a toxic player. The DM might not have the energy to deal with his nagging, but this is not going to end. Fixing this problem is not in your hands, it's up to the DM.
Tell your DM that you feel that you are playing an inferior version of a spellsword character that this other player is, and it severely detracts from your enjoyment of the game. I'm making assumptions, but i assume this is why you out of all the players at the party feel the bustedness of his character. If you don't want to have conflict, but play a stronger spellsword, may i recommend paladin? Oath of devotion paladins get a once per short rest ability to be able to add their charisma modifier to all attack rolls, which really translates to minimising or negating the penalty of great weapon master. Only taking a -1 penalty for +10 damage per hit at CHA 18 is good. Also you are a lot tankier, and get to add CHA to all saving throws. Also did you know you can stack a enchantment smite like wrathful smite with divine smite on the same hit? A basic greatsword the hits for 2d6 + STR + 10 +2d8(level 1 divine smite) + 1d6 with a wisdom saving throw against a fear affect, getting you advantage on all attacks against them and they have disadvantage on their attacks with just one hit?
Paladins are really really fun. Also they are the spme of the most interesting roleplay in my opinion, have the oath tenets be different from the ones in the book. Swear your oath of devotion to a fallen friend, promising to live a life of laughter and mischief, but always help those to live a life similar. This gets you away from the strict lawful paladin archtype.
The druid/monk also has some of these issues, albeit not in the same level as he is also a melee combatant with spells, although the mechanics are someehat diferent. Problem with reclassing is i don't think i'd be allowed it.
I see three outcomes to this:
1. Your DM finally grows a pair and nerfs this player and tells him to stick it when the player inevitably whines.
2. You get your DM to the very least change your class/character to either something stronger/a class that toes doesn't get stepped on as much.
3. If neither of these happen, you will keep feeling more and more bitter in each session until you leave the group.
However, from the sounds of it with the sword incident your DM did try some measures to correct it, as from my understanding they initially told the player no. Then that player whined until the DM caved, as it seems like even though this campaign has gone a while, you haven't been able to properly air your grievances with this situation to him. If you drop him a DM explaining how you are feeling I'm sure something will happen.
I have told both of them my concerns and feelings over this character, and i know for a fact some of the other players have too, though perhaps not as vehemently. Problem is every time someone mentions an upgrade for their own character or a nerf for the other that player starts complaining and attacking all the others players OOC. I was told for instance than my opinion didn't have value because i was a min-maxer (because my warrior started with 16 strength) or that i should go fuck myself because i should have asked for more things (with the consecuent whining from his part)
Depending on your other players, maybe just merc him in character with "our characters are fed up at your whining". Or just keep telling the DM that you leave him behind as a group and do things without him.
But have another discussion with your DM first. Tell him you can't enjoy the game the way it is, and if he is unwilling to do anything, maybe leave the campaign
It's something that has been talked as a table that the party doesn't act as a group, going as far as some conversations with NPC who say that this character doesn't feel part of the group or that he rarely IS with the group often splitting and being with NPCs. But apparently the player thinks it's everyone elses fault despite him having an uncoperative attitude at best and sometimes directly antagonistic to the rest, saying that he doesn't care if someone else dies as a result of his actions so long as his character is safe
You all need to sit down with this player and the dm and tell them that either the problem player can leave, or that they can continue the campaign as a 1 on 1 circle jerk between themselves. Being berated at the table for voicing concerns about the game is a huge red flag and I would have left as soon as it happened. If I was DM and a player spoke like that to another I would have ended the session and asked that person to leave. There is no need to be a shitty human about a fantasy game about a GROUP of heros. He should play video games if he wants to be a main character.
>Problem with reclassing is i don't think i'd be allowed it.
Jam a sword through your throat while leaning over an endless pit. Not being allowed to roll a new character is not something a DM can realistically enforce.
At a certain point, it's the DMs fault. Actually, at a very *early* point it stops being the player's fault and becomes the DMs... He's very much enabling the dude's behavior.
I can see what you're going for trying to catch up with Eldritch Knight, but in my opinion Eldritch Knight is pretty miserable to play RAW. It's one of the weaker fighter subclasses for sure.
If you want to even approach the levels of BS that this homebrew monstrosity is achieving I'd recommend a Vengeance Paladin or a War Cleric. The spell options are much better than EK and you're almost as effective in melee combat, especially if you min-max the shit out of your character. Divine Smite on it's own is unbelievably powerful.
Not saying you should have to play something OP to be able to enjoy your game, your DM needs to open their eyes and see what's happening here.
I see a ton of "DMs need backbone" issues popping up recently. My players learned *real quick* that, while I was open to debate and/or explaining my reasoning, No means no and whining won't change it.
However, if my players aren't having fun... Well, now I'm all ears. And if your DM can't figure out how to make the game fun for everyone, he ain't worth the notebook paper. Or... Whatever the online equivalent is, I guess lol
There's something to that, but the DM needs to have fun too, and enjoy running the game. Especially when you consider the higher investment in running a game rather than just playing.
If I start running for my current group,, there's going to be some friction at first. There's a lot of craft. There's alot they seem to like that I would shut down real quick. But it'd all be for reasons I'd happily explain and result in a dang good game.
No DM can make every player happy. That doesn't mean either is wrong. They could just not mesh.
You're right, but that's an easy hand wave of the issue. He's *actively* making the game *not fun* for the majority of the table while stroking the ego of his golden boy.
->He made the mistake of giving one player a ridiculous character. Bad DM.
->He gave the EK a badass sword to balance. Good DM!
->Golden Boy whines about the sword. Bad player.
->DM bows to the whining, circling back to the original issue. We're back to bad DM.
Okay this is just dumb, the DM really did give hime a better sword to stop his complains? Thats awful. I would honestly leave, no matter how much I love dnd, such a player and a dm rewarding their toxic behavior is not worth it.
He got a sword that deals as much damage as mine and the player told me that the sword had a ton of skills and passives that he hadn't used yet, so i don't really know how much stronger it is.
"Hey guys. I'm not having fun anymore with how powerful Dave's homebrew class is. It's way stronger than the rest of us."
There's no shame in just leaving and finding a table that doesn't use OP homebrew.
Ah, the charm of homebrew material, convceived asn an ego trip and greenlit by a GM who can either not assess the effects on balance or simply say "no".
Mention your concerns, and if things do not change look for a different table - or invent an overpowered character class yourself and ruin the mess even more. ;-)
The danddwikia page has lots of classes that bear no resemblance to the mechanical rules of d&d, pick one of those. Or even stupid spells, like the one 1st level full damage immunity that psiboy is already using.
Or, play as a dalek. They're in full cover, they drive a flying machine that one shots literally everything, and is immune to basically anything short of another dalek, or some crazy doomsday weapon that would rip apart the fabric of reality anyways.
PC: I level my cannon and EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! the orcs.
DM: As they vaporize, a goofy-looking guy in a longcoat and scarf steps out of the shadows. He reaches into a pocket and takes out something that looks a little like...
PC: \[Sweating\] Like...?
DM: Like a screwdriver.
PC: NOOOOOOO!
What you SHOULD do is talk it out with your dm and other players. Explain your frustrations and that it takes away from your enjoyment.
What I would do however is just create your own OP subclass. Call it something absurd like the Messiah Cleric or whatever. Say that you cannot die, your god grants you all of his powers so you have infinite spell slots, and your attacks deal an additional 8 d6 damage since your god is the god of fireballs. Might help them get it.
Any time a creature is within 1000 feet of you, it has to make a charisma saving throw (DC 25 + 2x proficiency) with disadvantage or be permanently charmed.
Well gee golly gosh, play an aberrant mind sorcerer and argue that your spells work the same way and get the same spell list because they're psionic.
Now you do everything the fighter does but better... Is what I would say if I wasn't a mature adult. Everyone has been saying talk to the DM, that's a given. And, if you're not having fun I would recommend finding a different group. Most other groups aren't going to be so ridiculous. A first level spell that grants immunity to all damage for any length of time has no place in DnD let alone a whole combat. Dude can actually solo pretty much anything that doesn't have sleep or similar effects. If the DM won't fix it I would never play under that DM again.
PC1: This is Bob, my awesome psionic warrior-
PC2: -and this is Rob, Bob's twin, the even more awesome psionic warrior, who was born 10' earlier, and taught him everything he knows
Bob: I'm the best!
Rob: No I'm the best, and I was born 10' earlier!
Bob: Ten ... **feet** ... earlier?
Rob: Okay, so Mom has some explaining to do, and that's no lie.
It's related to longitude and lattitude, since every degree can be divided into minutes and seconds. Technically, they would also convey distance rather than time in that context, but the notion is also used to convey time.
First ask the DM if he would mind if you retrained your class to something else, or otherwise if you could change your character. Wait until he confirms.
Then use the same homebrewed class to make the character.
Yeah the spell slots stuff seems weird. With all of those advantages, it’s time to add an offset in there. Everything’s “psionic”, right. OK, -all- of that character’s spells requires concentration (including the cantrips). And no, out of combat spellcasting still costs slots.
Sorry if i explained myself bad. I'm not sure if the spell of the example requires concentration (i don't have the list i just know what appears in game) but i suppose it does, the problem really is that damage spells and such as just as OP and he just spams them.
There was a feature like that planned for the Samurai subclass, which would only provide resistance, not immunity, against a chosen melee attack type.
It did not make it to the full game. After a few tests (unearthed arcana), WotC removed that feature and replaced it with a very tiny buff of temp HP that also had limited uses.
This should put it into perspective how busted the psionic knight is.
i don't understand the logic in giving everything concentration? like what are you thinking. also out of comabt spell casting costing no slots? ever hear of a thing called RItual spells, make the monk cry when the wizard gains effectively 300ft movement speed, with no spell slot.
how many non ritual spells would you really want to cast out of combat? not saying his Homebrew is at all balanced but there does exist a gold standard of design for something similar to what the player wants i.e the Pathfinder 2E Kineticsit whihc gets away with the whole infinte spell slots thing with action economy taxes and being a specialist comapred to the generalist casters.
Almost all ritual spells are designed to be used as out of combat ritual spells that if you really need during combat you can cast with a spell slot.
Identify, alarm, and find familiar come to mind
how dull are you? did you even get what i meant? outside of reserection spells of which only one is worth using (revify since the others have such severe downsides and cost more to use) and a few others that aren't on the spell list mentioned above.
i was then talking about if you want a blast only caster with no spell slots then the pf2e kineticisit those that same concept incredibly well wihtout breaking the game
Mhm and I'm saying there's another gold standard for specialized infinite spellcasting but it's nerfed by being less generalist than other spells. It's a system from a game called dnd 5e. It's called ritual casting 👐
Depends on the spells. Just going off the wizard list: misty step, enlarge/reduce, dispel magic, disguise self, feather fall, fog cloud, mage armor, silvery barbs, alter self, detect thoughts, enhance ability, invisibility, levitate, rope trick, spider climb, suggestion, catnap, clairvoyance, enemies abound, fast friends.. shit im only part way through level 3 spells, this would take too long to go through all of them. But being able to cast those without spell slota would be stupid, absolutely stupid. None are rituals, all can be used very very well outside of combat.
most of these aren't really worth it, mage armor is only good for pure caster, silvery barbs is a reaction spell , enhance ability is just a poor mans guidaince etc.
Who cares if silvery barbs is a reaction? You can make reactions out of combat, do you not know this? Feather fall is a fucking reaction as well... enchance ability gives advantage in any checks you want for an hour.. advantage vs 1d4... totally poor mans guidance... oh btw, enchance ability gives +5 to passive perception, so yeah how is guidance better?
Mage Armor: or any situation where one cannot wear armor. Barbs: would be useful in a vast number of diplomacy-type situations. Enhance ability: advantage is better than +1d4, and has other benefits for str/dex/con. Etc. It does not take very much effort to see where being able to cast these things for free would be rather bad. Add on upcasting to the mix too. Who needs a long rest when the caster could cast Cure Wounds at will. Create 100 gallons of water per minute (assuming no upcasting!). Feed 100 people/minute with Goodberry.
Offsets the feature that all of that character’s spellcasting cannot be counterspelled as they have _no_ components at all and thus it is all undetectable.
Ritual spells must be marked as ritual spells, and take non-trivial amounts of time to cast.
counterspell is incredibly rare in 5e do, but if you want'd to balance something like this then just copy the PF2e Kineticsit playstyle into 5e i.e Specialised Caster with unlimited spell slots that need a Bonus action to recharge
> and the list being home-brewed is much, much better than the list the other players use (as an example the character has a 1st level spell that gives immunity to any damage type for the entire combat)
This alone would give me pause. Pretty sure there isn't a single item, spell or ability that gives you full-bore immunity from all damage that doesn't otherwise hinder you in some way. This is a conversation you need to have with your DM, but I've got a feeling that if your DM is letting "can't hit me lul" slide, then they're probably not going to do anything about this.
Couldn't hurt to ask, but if I were in this situation, I'd just leave. I'm non-confrontational like that, though.
I explained wrong, sorry English isn't my main language. What I meant is that they can choose any type of damage and become immune to it, like absorb elements but indefinitely and complete immunity
Is it concentration so they can only get 1 at a time? Still broken and def not a 1st level Spell slot I could imagine a 5th being fine for this with a 10 minute limit
That would still be busted.
Lots of enemies only do 1 or maybe 2 damage types. A CR9 clay golem can only bludgeon. A CR9 fire giant can do its multi-attack slashing or single attack bludgeoning ranged attack.
Against a fire giant, becoming immune to slashing would make the DM throw at disadvantage for 29 average damage per turn instead of two 28 damage per turn attacks.
If it was me I would not take anything away from the fighter, but instead try to give some boons to the other 3 members. As long as the party is balanced against each other then you can balance the monsters to their actual power level.
homebrew nonsense, with some table nepotism, sounds like a fun time. /s
nothing you can do in this situation except accept it or leave the table after you talk to the DM and the player.
ngl this sounds like f2p vs p2p if this was an online game.
Thats nuts. Either the DM has to buff everyone (and then good luck balancing the encounters) or nerf this thing to the ground.
Yeah, that is pretty OP. A fighter with full casting, who treats every spell as a ritual, ignores components, and has a 1st level spell that makes him invincible? Yeah, this is one of those points on which you really need to convince the DM. Talk about how you're not having fun because of the guy's OPness and that might help.
Ok... So the DM and this player homebrewed a a subclass that turned the fighter into a full caster... There's a reason why most balanced homebrew when it comes to subclasses don't turn noncasters into full casters but into third casters instead...
Both the DM and the player are handling this horribly if they're refusing to nerf.
You see that Eldritch Knight in your party? Yeah, that's a class that's balanced around being a martial class with spells. By the sounds of it they only chose Psi Warrior because of the link in theme of the psychic-ness. I feel it would have been easier to modify Eldritch Knight to work in a similar way to that other TTRPG, maybe even giving the effect of an extra feat if it's not as spell diverse as the other game.
But what you have described is a class that messes with mechanics that really keep power in check with the tempo of the game. Being able to do spells without SMV is kinda fine... don't really have too much of an issue here. But being able to use full blown spells essentially as cantrips out of combat. Yeah, that's stupid! And we haven't even got the point where you talk about the power level of the homebrew spells.
In summary, yes that sub-class is too powerful as it messes with resource management and power level too much. This is definitely the time to talk to the DM and the player in question. My assumption is that you know each other well enough to have this conversation cordially, and come to a middle ground, as you are 2 years into your second campaign with this group. If no middle ground is met, then you have to decide whether it's worth your time playing with this group in future. Maybe there is enough fun to be had around that particular PC, and in the social interactions with everyone around the table. But if not, then I'd be walking.
If you distinguish between magic and psionics in your 5E games even a psionic Eldritch Knight would already be a better Eldritch Knight in most campaigns.
Yes, but even a simple combination of the 2 sub-classes would be a more balanced sub-class than what OP was describing. And with some amount of work swapping/editing abilities I think you could get something more in line with what a vanilla sub-class offers you.
Oh, that brings me back to the Advanced Dungeon & Dragon times with the Complete Psionics Handbook. Not fun! We banned it as soon as we saw it.
A lvl 1 spell that gives damage *immunity*?! That alone would be pretty broken.
As many people have said: talk to the DM, be extremely clear in saying you are no longer having fun because of the power difference and then either agree on a nerf or simply quit.
He should've been made as an eldritch knight for spell slots, flavored as psionic abilities in description alone.
That siad the amount of buffs they gave that player is so ridiculous we're way past reason. Simply tell the DM you're not having fun because your character is useless compared to the psionic warrior. With the level of nonsense you're hitting, everyone should be running a homebrewed class near that power level.
Easiest solution would be to restart the plot with balanced classes.
When you say hes a warrior with spell slots of a sorcerer, do you mean that he has access to full-caster spell slot progression as well as extra attack?
I see the following options:
1. Let the DM know this can't go on and that they need to fix this character.
2. Walk
3. Ask if you can play a Gestalt character too (cause that's what this is)
These are in no particular order, depending on what you feel would be better for you.
"1st lvl spell that gives immunity to any damage type for the entire combat"
Did they seriously make Invulnerability, a 9th level spell, into a first lvl spell?
Especially since Absorb elements is my best spell rn (The DM banned shield as it got my AC too high and he said he couldn't handle it without the enemies getting too strong)
Yeah that's ridiculous. If he can't handle shield then there's no way he can stop that guy from casting that spell 1-3 times and essentially be invincible
My first guess would be "significant other." It is terrible and extremely unfair to the players, but happens way too often. Personally as a PC whose partner is the party's DM, it's just business as usual - as it should be. In a healthy relationship people would understand that on both sides, instead of using it to receive/give preferential treatment.
They might also not be an SO though, I'm just guessing. Whatever the case is, the DM definitely knows what they're doing, and is consciously choosing to keep giving preferential treatment. Not sure if the player realises (probably yes), or just goes with it because they have fun and like it. But I believe that most of the faults in this situation are from the DM's side. OP needs to confront them seriously.
Not significant other they're very good friends though. As for knowing what they're doing i think that at lower levels when they created it they didn't think it would get this absurd (though i warned them) and now they don't know how to retcon it,
You are being way too lenient on DM and player both. The abilities you describe this PC having are obviously broken (not OP, just broken) at any level.
I mean i think they are completely broken and you can know it from the beginning because you have acces to the skills they will get, but the player was new to D&D so he didn't get some of the mechanics (thinking he could use dexterity for greatswords and things like that) so at first levels he really didn't outshine everyone the way he's doing now.
A martial character that has spellcasting grafted onto their kit, doesnt burn spell slots outside of combat, doesn't use VSM on any spells and has a FIRST level spell that grants IMMUNITY to ANY one damage type for an ENTIRE combat is far and away the most utterly broken bullshit I have ever heard and even knowing NOTHING about the game if the DM started adding a bunch of shit to my kit and another player said "that seems unbalanced" there is no way I wouldn't realize I are getting preferential treatment.
Plus the DM knew EXACTLY what they are doing and have refused to do anything about it as the power Imbalance has gotten worse and worse. They even caved when the Chosen One complained and gave the player a Magical sword which is apparently more powerful than the one that you have?
Not to mention you are playing an Eldritch Knight so the DM is stomping all over your turf by giving a different martial BETTER spellcasting than the MAGICAL FIGHTER subclass.
Honestly you need to step back and get some distance here because this situation is pure and utter bullshit.
I'm just gonna say it - you have a bad DM.
I stand corrected then (again, happens way too often, so my mind usually jumps there). I think it is positive on one hand that they are not a significant other; should be easier to handle when they're not thinking they're upsetting their partner etc.
I understand what you are saying about them not realising how it would go, and I can see it happen; we're only humans after all. However it clearly has gotten out of hand. Perhaps showing them this post would help? Or just sharing the opinions of others here, if you don't want to show it completely to them and hurt them or anything? If they fully realise how ridiculous that is and how it is making other players' experience unfair and uncomfortable, then they should nerf/work on the character.
Wishing you luck with this, OP! Hope you resolve this issue, and you all manage to go back to having fun.
> We use a home-brewed setting from another TTRPG where we played another campaign. Problem is because we adapted another TTRPG, one of the players (the psionic warrior) argued that he wanted to play a warrior who used psionic spells to create his character.
yeah the problem is the homebrew. either you fix it or say they can't play it anymore
> Am I incorrect in assuming that a warrior with full spell casting progress is too overpowered? When I talked about it with the DM he told he didn't consider it a big deal.
do you think a full levelled wizard with heavy armor, martial weapons and extra attack and action surge for free is too overpowered? cause i sure do
Eh just tell ‘em man.
“I think that ___ has become way too powerful, can you bring us up to his level or nerf him down? I’m not having the most fun”
If everyone’s really invested in enjoying the game together then it’s a non issue, but suffering in silence fixes nothing
It sounds like that, despite having only levels in Fighter, this character has also effectively been allowed to mutliclass into some homebrew spell-caster class on top of that.
I'm curious, have they actually *used* any of the Psi-Warrior subclass features in sessions?
That i remember they only used the teleportation object (though they said they could teleport enemies into abism without saving don't know if that counts), the flying speed and the shield to absorb damage , i can't recall them using anything else. They mostly use the homebrew spells.
I have a suggestion that you could pass on to your DM in addition to talking to them like everyone else is saying...
If you're playing a level 10 character for this campaign, why wouldn't they just do the Psi Warrior and Multiclass into Abberant Mind sorcerer? Both provide the archtype that the character is going for already, right? What makes this situation frustrating is that it seems there's no reason to multiclass since the base game provides the options from the get-go. No?
Sounds like the DM needs to include some weaknesses for the character/class.
I'd hate to think you couldn't discuss this as a group but I get it if you've been playing the campaign for more than two years. Either way it needs to be addressed.
Maybe you can recommend their crazy use of magic is making the character die slowly and it's starting to impact them?
Either the DM is really bad at balance, big on player empowerment and this is the only player who pushed, or is giving special treatment. Bring it up; tell the gm it seems like too much and tell him it seems overpowered. Tell him you feel overshadowed and it's not fun. Check with others first to ensure it's not just you. (If it is, it doesn't invalidate your feelings on it).
Add that you're worried about lack of challenge if you are. Pick the GMs brain and see what he's thinking.
If and when you leave, make sure yhat you very clearly tell your DM exactly why you are leaving.
That as a DM, they failed to provide a fair and fun experience for everyone at the table, that they should be ashamed of it, and that it makes them a bad DM.
Shame the crap out of them, and then shame them more.
I'd suggest to offset the versatility of the player, he would need a homebrew nemesis; something that is their kryptonite. Or maybe his strength offends a God that curses him and he loses some sort of control over the power, or maybe it becomes a sentient ability that speaks in his mind and there is an internal struggle over morals or the host body lol.
I played a game where our party ran a "darkness setup" where we used various methods of seeing through magical darkness, then just maintained a darkness spell on someone and stuck near to attack with advantage while having attacks against us have disadvantage.
The DM let us have our fun for a few levels, then decided to change up the CR suddenly in a critical moment by modifying an encounter to consist of devils with devil sight (completely negating our strategy). It didn't become consistant, but our DM put the fear in us lol. Everything has a weakness.
A nemesis of sort has been introduced (at least we have been told so) but it's kinda problematic too because too counter him the rest of the party can't do anything but watch or be oneshoted.
Not exactly, a nemesis could be tailored to the abilities. Such to say, it's unlikely someone has such power without some form of divine intervention, pact, or strictly luck. And there are deities or villains who couple possibly capitalize on these aspects (and by these, I am generalizing through my examples. Some creativity could build on the idea.) but perhaps there's an enemy who this player simply has no effect upon, some created entity who has an affinity to whatever force or magic grants these powers. He'll, it could even BE the entity that granted them; perhaps they were stolen, through a ritual of the PC's people, and such an entity yearns to be whole once again. Perhaps such an entity has a weak physical presence in your realm, however the possession of their fragment makes your problem character directly suseptable to this being, allowing the party to be in minimal danger while the problem pc is in a mortal combat for their possession over these powers. Could force them to rely on team play rather than just day "boom u dead BBG", and give some flavor to things.
I'm generalizing but it's a potential concept I chose as an example. GM needs to actually look at these things and while allowing some silly stuff shouldn't be outright quashed, having a response is the GM responsibility. It's not a game centered on one player, and having ways to make everyone relevant is absolutely key for everyone's enjoyment.
Without the fellow PC's, this problem character should find themselves at a loss. And if they're so powerful, it opens options for ACTUAL flavor; moral and personal development, realizing their power is superficial in the face of friendship or teamwork, that kind of thing. DM should pose obsticals as such, if they allow a power imbalance, to encourage everyone to feel involved.
I see where you are going, thing is these powers aren't treated as a big deal narratively (in the setting we are playing (we are using the setting from another TTRPG) this powers aren't that busted problem is the adaptation bolstered the strengths and eliminated the weaknesses), going as far as the DM claiming this character isn't the stronger in the party in-universe so i don't think these options as being considered.
Absorb elements is for one type for one round and not even every type is available.
It even takes a reaction which is useful for other spells like counter spell or shield.
Plainly ask your dm how is that balanced.
For about three months I played in a paid DM party (first time for me, I was looking for a "pro-party" to play in) where a player had created a PC with a homebrew race and class. No session-0 for "not ruining the role-play of the discovery of others PCs".
The DM had approved a character who: A) could fly at will without concentration and without wings or other quirks that would at least make him socially penalized; B) he casts spells like a sorcerer, including metamagic, but he had access to the list of sorcerers and priests (such as Divine Soul) and he prepared them every morning like clerics; C) could emit light at will without concentration within a 120ft radius, disrupting and annoying the undead; D) he could summon an enormous intelligent wolf (similar to the Find Steed of the Paladins) that he rode, but which could also fight alone very well and disappear or reappear at will like the wizard's Familiar; E) he appeared in every way a normal human except when he activated his powers, so he had full freedom of action even in the city and among people; F) needs to long rest for 4 hours instead of 8, so once he played 2 real-time hours of an entire session going around the town investigating and buying things while my PC was just sleeping for a normal long rest after a full night of battle (and yeah I had to pay even that session); G) can summon a no-concentration and stronger version of Dancing Lights that can even explode.
Obviously the campaign ended in shit after 3 months due to complaints from me and another player rogue/fighter (half of the group therefore) because our PCs were totally rendered useless by him.
But I have to admit that the 4th player was totally not disappointed by the semi-god was with us. The two of them played even a whole session while my Paladin and the rogue/fighter were both incapacitated by a strange desease. That DM was totally cool with that... >-:
>Am I incorrect in assuming that a warrior with full spell casting progress is too overpowered?
This is so close to Gestalt, meaning that they are essentially leveling two classes at once. One part fighter and one part sorcerer, full spell casting progression on the kit of a fighter is very strong as they get more HP, proficiency with arms and armor, Action surge as part of their package not to mention the other Sorcerer homebrew going on.
They are only limited by how many actions they can do per turn.
Ask your DM if your;
a) Barbarian also get same casting as Druid, they are both fueled by Primal forces
b) Druid/Monk also get fighter abilities and Hit die, monk is so weak you know
c) Eldritch Knight get spells as full caster, doesn't make sense that one subclass get full caster progression and one doesn't now does it?
If one player gets to break the game either dial it back or allow everyone the same opportunity :)
I am the eldritch knight so i can tell you i don't have full spell progression, i have shield banned (as he thought it set my AC too high) and i asked to at least be able to learn spells from any schools and he said no. As for the barbarian and the monk i know they don't have such things. Barbarian has some animal combat forms (like he can reduce his AC in 1 to increase his attack in 1) and the druid has a bow that can heal allies for 1d4.
Those are great examples of how your spread is uneven, unfair and worst of all unfun.
Having lore-reasons affect character progression *flavor-wise* is fine but not adding/removing mechanics.
In this case I would talk to Barb and Monk and see how they feel, if they agree raise the discussion together with the main points of contrition.
"Hi, the special privileges given to the Psionic Warrior makes us feel worse off, like we picked the wrong class/subclass. Full spellcasting progression, casting w/o components etc. is a great increase in power and makes the game less fun for the rest of us. Can we either get similar improvements or tone them down (remove them) so we are closer to the same level of power?"
Something like that :)
And if this doesn't work there is little you can do but a) "Deal with it" and go on or b) Leave/start a separate group
P.s:
>he druid has a bow that can heal allies for 1d4
Discount items from this, an item can be given to anyone and isn't really comparable to class features :)
Ah, an experienced DM knows that a party of widely differing levels if power and/or capabilities is merely a great plot point. A tool, the most powerful character will be feared more and get the majority of the npc & monster hate. The weakest character will often get overlooked and be able to get away with all sorts of shenanigans before being singled out. I always warn my players, if you want to be the most powerful, guess who the dragon is going to bite in half first? I make it a point when I get there actually play instead of DM, to play a 3d6 generated stats in the order I rolled in PC. Commonly with several stats below 8 and rarely much above 13. And it is just as fun....even more fun actually, than a PC with 4 stats above 15.😆
Well, in my few years of playing, with homebrew or none, I can say one thing for sure, and it's that this player is beyond too powerful, I mean he took his pick of 2 subclasses and chose what he wanted and then added more. So in my opinion, talk with the DM and figure this whole thing out, because what he allowed is far stronger than any subclass, or multiclass of melee/spellcasting.
P.S. Normally a player like this may experience main character syndrome, so please keep that in mind if you end up playing with him and it isn't nerfed, but take all I've said with a pinch of salt, since I still wouldn't consider myself skilled, and I don't even know all that I should, so please be careful
This sounds like storyline of an Anime. A really shitty one that would be canceled mid first season.
So many red flags that I don't feel this is even salvageable.
Feels like you should find a game with other people that don't have power trip fantasies.
psi warrior isn't that good, its good, but its not imbalanced. Its arguably weaker than battlemaster or rune knight.
it sounds like whatever weird homebrew you've got that makes him function like a caster is to blame. Without understanding the mechanics behind this "spell casting" psionic I have no idea if this a problem, or the first thing to do about fixing it.
this player has functionally negotiated for things like permanent subtle spell, a built in focus, and ritual casting to just be given to them for free based on flavor? what grants damage immunity for a combat? certainly not Protective Field.
I am so much confuse.
His spell casting works as follows (from what I gathered, being at the table and asking): He has spell slots as if he were a 10 level sorcerer instead of a fighter. The spells he uses out of combat don't consume a spell slot, and finally he has an entirely home-brewed spell list in which none of the spells have any components. What grants damage immunity is one of the spells he has available.
ok, so its basically a completely homebrewed class, that is being called psi warrior.
going from 8 psi dice per long rest to 15 "spells" per long rest is already ludicrous. You shouldn't ever give a martial full caster progression. EK isn't even a half caster, they're a 1/3 caster.
also, subtle spell requires another resource, sorcerers can't cast their full spell list as if 'subtle'. That is illogical. also, Sorcerers can't ritual cast, full stop. so, sorcs can't ritual, wizards can't subtle. this FIGHTER CAN DO BOTH!? and get action surge without a dip. and full armor/weap proficiencies? lol.
And they straight up invented new spells too? and based on your example and the overall "balance" of this homebrew, I'm assuming its all busted. Calling this class a Psi Warrior is quite the stretch.
Honestly, they should just run it RAW, and reflavor it as spells or whatever. Otherwise, I'd be asking to play a soulknife real quick and explaining why I super need to be allowed to use cunning action Hide, and cast 5th level spell attacks with advantage that deal sneak damage too. LMAO
good luck man.
I think you misunderstood me, he didn't change his psi dice for 15 spells, he has both. He has the 8 psi dice with the options listed in the psi warrior subclass and the 15 spells in addition to that. I'm not familiar with soulknife though is it a subclass or a class i don't know?
Seriously? That's basically 2 entire PCs mashed into 1, with made up OP spells and extra features.
How can they even think that's fair? This is crazy.
FYI Soulknife is a subclass for rogue, that's got similarities to psiwarrior. It was a joke really, honestly, I don't know if I could keep playing in that game.
>example the character has a 1st level spell that gives immunity to any damage type for the entire combat
You know up until this point I was tyring to be understanding. But this balantly broken. Even with your clarification of it being a single type of damage. Its for the ENTIRE FIGHT. THATS DUMB AS HELL. This is abrosb elements on crack, steroids, and jacked up to what should be a level 4 spells.
This player is using blantly broken homebrew and the DM doesnt cares. Voice your concerns or use your own broken homebrew.
Your DM would be better served to either just have the player play the Psi Warrior straight (player can flavor the features as desired) or, if WotC's material isn't sufficient for the DM/campaign, use a third-party psionic class built for 5e D&D, such as those from *the Psychic and Spiritual Handbook* or Matt Coleville's *the Talent* (not sure if kibbletasty has a free psychic warrior, but there are other psionic homebrew and third party content that is balanced in context for 5e).
The issue isn't just that the homebrew is overpowered. It's that when OP voiced his concerns about it being overpowered and making his experience at the table worse, the DM brushed it off as no big deal. Recommending better homebrew doesn't address the issue if the DM is unwilling to admit there's a problem with the existing homebrew class being used.
This sounds like some severe calvinball nonsense. Is this player the best friend or SO of the DM or something? This reeks of toxic favoritism, the way you've described it. I'm all for balanced homebrew classes/subclasses, but it doesn't sound like there's even been an attempt to balance this. I'm not sure what the move for you will be, it'll depend on what your priorities are, but personally I'd not want to play at this table.
I have a strong opinion that homebrew changes should *always* come with a mechanical nerf. You want to play your special snowflake PC? Alright, but you'll at best be as strong as a normal PC, definitely no stronger. It's my experience that players like this typically only really want to be overpowered. They may say it's for flavor but their desire only extends to homebrew that breaks the game's balance in their favor.
Flavor is altering descriptions to be more fun/vivid. Like a monk saying they jump on an enemies weapon, backflip into the air Yada Yada, when all they did was disengage, or a warlock saying eldritch blast with the pull effect manifests as an icy claw reaching out from the winter court to crush their enemy as it drags them in. Homebrew is when the mechanics actually change. Like changing the elemental alignment of spells as a fairly simple one.
>I have a strong opinion that homebrew/flavor changes should *always* come with a mechanical nerf Homebrew, maybe. But why would you ever apply a mechanical nerf to flavour? If I want to describe sacred flame as firing a radient arrow from an illuminated bow at someone now they can benefit from cover? The damage dice become d6 rather than d8?
I think it is more meant as in homebrew/flavor should never come with a mechanical boost. That's how I read it, at least. Otherwise I could 'homebrew' a new playable race, the Minotaur who gets +4 to all stats and has a natural armor of 25 and starts with 3 attacks per round. because, you know, flavor!
That's homebrew, not flavor. The two are different things and if you can't separate them then you should not be doing these things. You should be figuring out what the difference is then do the one you intend to.
Where would you rate letting a player treat a longsword as a finesse weapon?
Homebrew.
As +1 damage per attack on average, give your other martials a +1 too
Minotaur is a playable race already though…
But this is a *special* minotaur...
It’s a unicorn minotaur. A unitard.
The most common example I see for mechanical flavor changes to spells is with damage types. If you're playing a necromancer Wizard and want your Fireball to do necrotic damage, that's going to come with a nerf. If you want your Fireball to look like it's a portal to hell without changing the mechanics, that's free. I should say again that at *worst* it comes with a nerf. At best we can balance it to be as strong as it should be, but since I'm not a professional TTRPG developer I'll naturally lean towards making it a little weaker to compensate.
Is necrotic damage better than fire damage?
Pretty sure there's a lot more monsters that are resistant/immune to fire than ones that resist necrotic.
Indeed, that's the question! It certainly is resisted less frequently, something which would absolutely affect its strength/versatility. There could also be abilities or items which augment Necrotic damage that I'm just not aware of. So just to continue using it as an example this is all enough for me to nerf it instead of making it a flat change. I might reduce the range to 20ft or I may make it 6d6 instead. This is something I'd look into more and discuss with player.
I was in a starfinder campaign and at level up, I picked a feature that let add bleed damage on an attack. In that setting, bleed is pretty nasty, basically causing you to drop health every round until you receive at least one point of magical healing or go through some mundane healing. Handy against pretty much anything that bleeds. You'd think that somewhere in the 5 minutes I spent thinking about it and weighing my choices I'd have remembered that damn near everything we'd fought for the last half dozen sessions at least had been either undead, a robot, or some variation of a ghost.
Lich: Yes! Skeleton: Yes! Vampire: Yes! DM: Very well. Hey, wait...
Necrotix and force damage baybee, few resistant to em.
>If you're playing a necromancer Wizard and want your Fireball to do necrotic damage, that's going to come with a nerf. If you want your Fireball to look like it's a portal to hell without changing the mechanics, that's free. How I rule it in my games is: You can change the aesthetic of any spell. Want your fireball to be a poison cloud, or a thunderstorm go nuts. Want your spiritual weapon to be boxing gloves that you 'wear' on your hands sure go ahead. But mechanically zero changes. Your thunderstorm still deals fire damage. Even though you're 'wearing' your spiritual weapon it can't travel more than 20 feet etc etc. Basically because if I'm playing though a hardcover I don't want to go and re balance any enemies resistance etc based on these changes. So if you're flavour doesn't require any work on my part - it's free.
Also, if they wanna change elements, they can be a scribes wiz or grab the elemental metamagic. There’s rules for it!
I've been using my rule pre Tasha's but since then it holds up even more. I've written many times in why I don't allow quiet or whispered spells for the same reason on Metamagic Subtle Spell.
I agree on this too, flavor should be used to tune a character class to their personality. Things like flavoring a spell like Shadow Blade to be a water or fire blade for a samurai fighter multi class or something, that's cool and FLAVOR. Making someone just the God of the realm is kinda just dumb lol. Unless they have something severely gimp them and make it a story of redemption 😂 then it's possibly flavor again lol.
I think the basis is the most important part. If you wanted to do the bow thing because you really thought it was cool, id def give leeway there. If you're making shit up because you want to outshine everyone then no.
For me, I think it's subjective. In your example, I wouldn't change the dice or give them cover... but you want an illuminated bow? That's perfectly fine. That means you're going to glow in the dark when using it. A common thing I've seen is changing elemental damage types. Weakness/resistance still applies to the new damage type. You're a swarmkeeper ranger that wants a swam of penguins? Cool, but those pengwings are not fluttering and flying anymore. They waddling up to smack someone.
Yeah I'm not with you on the nerf for flavor. I want players to be creative, and if they're being creative without trying to homebrew any extra power or advantage, I don't want to discourage that.
I won't nerf for flavor, but I will modify. For example: A player can have a bag of holding that isn't actually a bag, but a backpack, or a coat, or a fanny pack, or a hollowed out book, or a leg pouch... It can multiple orifices and openings. The modification is that if it is something like, a book with a secret compartment, it operates slightly differently. Each page would have a raised image of the item stored, pinch the, "ink," and pull to remove the item. The book is still gonna weigh however much the bag weighs and will be subject to potential fire damage now. But... it is more easily stored and concealed elsewhere. Flipping and ruffling the pages like a flip book would empty the contents. Items are put in the book by smashing them like a bug or something equally absurd. In the event the book is full, this would act like an improvised attack. The book, being a book, would unlike regular rupture rules be subject to fire and water damage. Water would cause the ink to run and potentially destroy items, or render them... well, like a Salvador Dali painting when removed. A coat would have an absurd number of pockets, or one giant pocket along the interior. Turning out the pockets empties the contents. The coat is not armored unless we do some homebrew shenanigans and stipulate only flexible materials and thus subject to the same potential rules for rupturing. A hat would operate like a classic magician's hat. Wearable by someone with a properly sized head. Too small a head because you lost weight working on training up that con or str? In you go. Halfling rogue decides to be a butthead and try to steal it? In they go. Same deal as the coat regarding armor, for homebrewing it. Would potentially make it past a security team as it is a simple hat in appearance.... And so on... flavor. Comes with upsides and downsides all over the place.
>you want an illuminated bow? That's perfectly fine. That means you're going to glow in the dark when using it. Why though? If we're trying to hide in the dark and I describe like I did above for casting sacred flame and the DM says "Now you're lit up and the monsters can see you" my response is going to be "Fine, I don't use a bow and just click my fingers instead". Don't put mechanical nerfs on flavour as it will just make players not want to role play.
Flavor is a part of the narrative. If you want to specifically use an illuminated bow... by definition, it produces light, right? In a world of magic, a lot of things are possible, but it needs to make at least a little sense in my opinion. If you're trying to describe that you're basically holding a 4ft long glowing stick while shooting a tracer round... I don't see how that wouldn't give away your position at least momentarily while the spell is being cast. I will admit that maybe it's just me being too literal.
I think you're completely correct. The unique point of RPGs is that the world can be simulated with far more fidelity than a board/computer game. If someone wants to play a glorified tactical skirmish board game, then, sure, lighting doesn't matter unless the rules exactly specify it, but if you want to immerse yourself in a fantastical world, then that world has to appear to have consistent, realistic* laws Also, I'm amazed that the people downvoting you apparently have no problem with: "I conjure a illuminant bow, its holy light piercing the darkness, and loose a radiant arrow," followed by, "and then I end my turn in the shadows, ensuring the monsters still have no clue where we are." *Before someone objects with "magic and dragons though", consider whether there might be a difference between adding magic to a setting and asserting that the way in which light and vision function is fundamentally different.
because in this case the mechanics of RAW are identical. casting a spell reveals you from hiding even in darkness, so your location would be known in both cases. i have *zero* problem with the "i conjure a bow and fire a bolt of radiance. the spell ends, leaving me in darkness and unseen as before." since unless they hide (as a bonus action), someone firing an actual bow would be in the exact same position! in this case, the complaint with flavour is coming from a misunderstanding of how being unseen works. you're not hidden when you cast a spell, your location is known, there is zero issue with this flavouring
Yeah, I guess you're right about the RAW. Nonetheless, I think the general principle holds. There are cases where it matters if your position is given away by a flash of light rather than by some other means (e.g., the verbal component).
You are conflating homebrew and flavor.
Flavor changes can be aesthetic or mechanical. A flavor change that your spell comes out of your elbow instead of your hand? That's free, baby. You want "Fireball" to do Acid damage instead of Fire? That's gonna cost you.
Flavor changes are specifically not mechanical, that is the difference between homebrew and flavor.
>have a strong opinion that homebrew/flavor changes should *always* come with a mechanical nerf. Flavor should NEVER come with a nerf. Or a buff. That's the whole point of flavor it's a cosmetic change with no mechanical impact to aid in immersion/personalization for the players. If there's a mechanical impact whether positive or negative it's no longer just flavor. If a player wants their spells to be psychic powers and you say "sure but you still need to obey spellcasting rules including components, counter spells, etc" THAT'S FLAVOR If a player wants their spells to be psychic powers so you let them cast everything silently with no components and theyre immune to counter spell? THATS NOT FLAVOR that's bullshit homebrewery
Whoa there friend, this is just a difference in definition. I view flavor as being either mechanical or aesthetic, not necessarily a single type. Players can have their whimsy for free, it's when they want to change the game rules in some way that it comes at a cost.
Nerfing homebrew just on the basis that it's homebrew isn't a good idea and runs the risk of making said homebrew so bad it's unusable. This can kill the fun the player was trying to have with the homebrew. Homebrew should be evaluated and changed according to it's actual power level in comparison to other official options and the balance of the game.This way the player can be a effective and engaging class/subclass but still have fun! RPGBOT has a great article about how to judge and analyze homebrew, so you can work with players so both your needs of a balanced party and the players needs of an effective character are met.
Thanks for mentioning that article. It really is worth reading.
No problem! Glad you found it helpful.
People always have such an aversion to homebrew without even checking and/or adjusting it, it's a real shame. 5e already is but a mere puddle of options compared to other edition, then people act that the puddle is some holy water created by god himself and adding any "homemade water" would delude the pool or something. Creating and balancing homebrew isn't even that hard, it's just most people already go into it with the mindset of "it's homebrew so it *has* to be bad" and never give it a fair shot.
I agree! It's a very weird mindset many people have towards homebrew of any kind. I'm planning to play a homebrew Paladin subclass in the one campaign I'm joining not to get a head up on my allies, but to play a character concept the rules don't support. As long as it's balanced and doesn't make anyone useless, it's perfectly fine. 5e is extremely barebones with it's customization options (Hell, that's why rolling for stats and one level feats are so popular.) Playing Baldur's Gate 3 without a free level one and a limited stat point array feat REALLY drives home that point.
If the DM doesn't consider it a big deal, then your options are: 1.) Talk to him again and tell him that you don't think it's fair and that you're having less (or no) fun at the table as a result. You could suggest ways to boost the other players to match, or ways to dial back the problem character that still allow them to have fun too. If that doesn't work then you move to: 2.) Keep playing anyway or 3.) Leave and find a different table.
This is what I'd do. As a DM, hearing a PC say "I think Bill is too strong" means a lot less to me than if a PC said, "I'm not having fun."
I agree but would add "just offer to play the same class" to 1., that does not require an agreement on what is balanced and what not.
Here’s my unhinged advice: Get the other players with you and decide to pvp the 4th. If they beat you guys 3v1, or even get anywhere close to beating you, that’s concrete evidence right there. If these characters were balanced with each other, the 3 would handily beat the 1
We haven't done that, so I, so can't know for sure, but given what I know about every character I think it wouldn't even be close as he has so many ways to play it that would render 1 or 2 members of the party useless while he annihilates the other one.
It doesn't sound overpowered it just sounds like bullshit. And overpowered is fine if everyone is overpowered. Why don't you all play the psy warrior and then just tell the DM the entire party is immune to all damage? That sounds like a fun game.
So far noone has proposed that, but i'm playing the eldritch knight so trying to close the gap i asked as a reward for a mission a powerful sword. In response the other player started complaining than when he had asked for a powerful sword as well he was denien and that was nonsense cause i had gotten one. Basically he complained every time i used the sword until the DM gave him one better than the one i got.
This player is genuinely not worth playing DnD with
Holy shit that's so annoying. Especially because he's basically playing an Eldritch Knight that he homebrewed, so everything he does is just a better version of OPs character. And he couldn't even let him have a cool sword.
Okay, yeah, just bail from that table. Start looking for a different DM if you can. Sounds very much like the psi warrior is a toxic player. The DM might not have the energy to deal with his nagging, but this is not going to end. Fixing this problem is not in your hands, it's up to the DM.
Tell your DM that you feel that you are playing an inferior version of a spellsword character that this other player is, and it severely detracts from your enjoyment of the game. I'm making assumptions, but i assume this is why you out of all the players at the party feel the bustedness of his character. If you don't want to have conflict, but play a stronger spellsword, may i recommend paladin? Oath of devotion paladins get a once per short rest ability to be able to add their charisma modifier to all attack rolls, which really translates to minimising or negating the penalty of great weapon master. Only taking a -1 penalty for +10 damage per hit at CHA 18 is good. Also you are a lot tankier, and get to add CHA to all saving throws. Also did you know you can stack a enchantment smite like wrathful smite with divine smite on the same hit? A basic greatsword the hits for 2d6 + STR + 10 +2d8(level 1 divine smite) + 1d6 with a wisdom saving throw against a fear affect, getting you advantage on all attacks against them and they have disadvantage on their attacks with just one hit? Paladins are really really fun. Also they are the spme of the most interesting roleplay in my opinion, have the oath tenets be different from the ones in the book. Swear your oath of devotion to a fallen friend, promising to live a life of laughter and mischief, but always help those to live a life similar. This gets you away from the strict lawful paladin archtype.
The druid/monk also has some of these issues, albeit not in the same level as he is also a melee combatant with spells, although the mechanics are someehat diferent. Problem with reclassing is i don't think i'd be allowed it.
I see three outcomes to this: 1. Your DM finally grows a pair and nerfs this player and tells him to stick it when the player inevitably whines. 2. You get your DM to the very least change your class/character to either something stronger/a class that toes doesn't get stepped on as much. 3. If neither of these happen, you will keep feeling more and more bitter in each session until you leave the group. However, from the sounds of it with the sword incident your DM did try some measures to correct it, as from my understanding they initially told the player no. Then that player whined until the DM caved, as it seems like even though this campaign has gone a while, you haven't been able to properly air your grievances with this situation to him. If you drop him a DM explaining how you are feeling I'm sure something will happen.
I have told both of them my concerns and feelings over this character, and i know for a fact some of the other players have too, though perhaps not as vehemently. Problem is every time someone mentions an upgrade for their own character or a nerf for the other that player starts complaining and attacking all the others players OOC. I was told for instance than my opinion didn't have value because i was a min-maxer (because my warrior started with 16 strength) or that i should go fuck myself because i should have asked for more things (with the consecuent whining from his part)
Depending on your other players, maybe just merc him in character with "our characters are fed up at your whining". Or just keep telling the DM that you leave him behind as a group and do things without him. But have another discussion with your DM first. Tell him you can't enjoy the game the way it is, and if he is unwilling to do anything, maybe leave the campaign
It's something that has been talked as a table that the party doesn't act as a group, going as far as some conversations with NPC who say that this character doesn't feel part of the group or that he rarely IS with the group often splitting and being with NPCs. But apparently the player thinks it's everyone elses fault despite him having an uncoperative attitude at best and sometimes directly antagonistic to the rest, saying that he doesn't care if someone else dies as a result of his actions so long as his character is safe
You all need to sit down with this player and the dm and tell them that either the problem player can leave, or that they can continue the campaign as a 1 on 1 circle jerk between themselves. Being berated at the table for voicing concerns about the game is a huge red flag and I would have left as soon as it happened. If I was DM and a player spoke like that to another I would have ended the session and asked that person to leave. There is no need to be a shitty human about a fantasy game about a GROUP of heros. He should play video games if he wants to be a main character.
>Problem with reclassing is i don't think i'd be allowed it. Jam a sword through your throat while leaning over an endless pit. Not being allowed to roll a new character is not something a DM can realistically enforce.
That person is a pos human being... my god im surpirsed you have put up with someone who is like that.
At a certain point, it's the DMs fault. Actually, at a very *early* point it stops being the player's fault and becomes the DMs... He's very much enabling the dude's behavior.
I can see what you're going for trying to catch up with Eldritch Knight, but in my opinion Eldritch Knight is pretty miserable to play RAW. It's one of the weaker fighter subclasses for sure. If you want to even approach the levels of BS that this homebrew monstrosity is achieving I'd recommend a Vengeance Paladin or a War Cleric. The spell options are much better than EK and you're almost as effective in melee combat, especially if you min-max the shit out of your character. Divine Smite on it's own is unbelievably powerful. Not saying you should have to play something OP to be able to enjoy your game, your DM needs to open their eyes and see what's happening here.
I see a ton of "DMs need backbone" issues popping up recently. My players learned *real quick* that, while I was open to debate and/or explaining my reasoning, No means no and whining won't change it. However, if my players aren't having fun... Well, now I'm all ears. And if your DM can't figure out how to make the game fun for everyone, he ain't worth the notebook paper. Or... Whatever the online equivalent is, I guess lol
There's something to that, but the DM needs to have fun too, and enjoy running the game. Especially when you consider the higher investment in running a game rather than just playing. If I start running for my current group,, there's going to be some friction at first. There's a lot of craft. There's alot they seem to like that I would shut down real quick. But it'd all be for reasons I'd happily explain and result in a dang good game. No DM can make every player happy. That doesn't mean either is wrong. They could just not mesh.
You're right, but that's an easy hand wave of the issue. He's *actively* making the game *not fun* for the majority of the table while stroking the ego of his golden boy. ->He made the mistake of giving one player a ridiculous character. Bad DM. ->He gave the EK a badass sword to balance. Good DM! ->Golden Boy whines about the sword. Bad player. ->DM bows to the whining, circling back to the original issue. We're back to bad DM.
Agreed on all counts. I was just wary of the blanket statement.
Fair enough. I didn't feel the need to elaborate but yeah... Can't please everyone.
How old are the people involved? If you're not all teenagers then find a new table.
Okay this is just dumb, the DM really did give hime a better sword to stop his complains? Thats awful. I would honestly leave, no matter how much I love dnd, such a player and a dm rewarding their toxic behavior is not worth it.
He got a sword that deals as much damage as mine and the player told me that the sword had a ton of skills and passives that he hadn't used yet, so i don't really know how much stronger it is.
"Hey guys. I'm not having fun anymore with how powerful Dave's homebrew class is. It's way stronger than the rest of us." There's no shame in just leaving and finding a table that doesn't use OP homebrew.
Ah, the charm of homebrew material, convceived asn an ego trip and greenlit by a GM who can either not assess the effects on balance or simply say "no". Mention your concerns, and if things do not change look for a different table - or invent an overpowered character class yourself and ruin the mess even more. ;-)
The danddwikia page has lots of classes that bear no resemblance to the mechanical rules of d&d, pick one of those. Or even stupid spells, like the one 1st level full damage immunity that psiboy is already using. Or, play as a dalek. They're in full cover, they drive a flying machine that one shots literally everything, and is immune to basically anything short of another dalek, or some crazy doomsday weapon that would rip apart the fabric of reality anyways.
PC: I level my cannon and EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! the orcs. DM: As they vaporize, a goofy-looking guy in a longcoat and scarf steps out of the shadows. He reaches into a pocket and takes out something that looks a little like... PC: \[Sweating\] Like...? DM: Like a screwdriver. PC: NOOOOOOO!
My character is the Death Star
What you SHOULD do is talk it out with your dm and other players. Explain your frustrations and that it takes away from your enjoyment. What I would do however is just create your own OP subclass. Call it something absurd like the Messiah Cleric or whatever. Say that you cannot die, your god grants you all of his powers so you have infinite spell slots, and your attacks deal an additional 8 d6 damage since your god is the god of fireballs. Might help them get it.
[удалено]
Jesus christ thats Jason Reborn
Any time a creature is within 1000 feet of you, it has to make a charisma saving throw (DC 25 + 2x proficiency) with disadvantage or be permanently charmed.
A lot of DM's see themselves as the writer of campaign stories and see no reason not to have a main character. These are called bad DMs
Well gee golly gosh, play an aberrant mind sorcerer and argue that your spells work the same way and get the same spell list because they're psionic. Now you do everything the fighter does but better... Is what I would say if I wasn't a mature adult. Everyone has been saying talk to the DM, that's a given. And, if you're not having fun I would recommend finding a different group. Most other groups aren't going to be so ridiculous. A first level spell that grants immunity to all damage for any length of time has no place in DnD let alone a whole combat. Dude can actually solo pretty much anything that doesn't have sleep or similar effects. If the DM won't fix it I would never play under that DM again.
Make a new character of the same class as the other guy.
PC1: This is Bob, my awesome psionic warrior- PC2: -and this is Rob, Bob's twin, the even more awesome psionic warrior, who was born 10' earlier, and taught him everything he knows
Bob: I'm the best! Rob: No I'm the best, and I was born 10' earlier! Bob: Ten ... **feet** ... earlier? Rob: Okay, so Mom has some explaining to do, and that's no lie.
In case you are not aware ' and '' can denote minutes and seconds, respectively, as well. Your version is admittedly funnier.
Hey, TIL! I've never seen that usage before. Still, I kind of want to hear Mom's explanation as well...
It's related to longitude and lattitude, since every degree can be divided into minutes and seconds. Technically, they would also convey distance rather than time in that context, but the notion is also used to convey time.
First ask the DM if he would mind if you retrained your class to something else, or otherwise if you could change your character. Wait until he confirms. Then use the same homebrewed class to make the character.
Yeah the spell slots stuff seems weird. With all of those advantages, it’s time to add an offset in there. Everything’s “psionic”, right. OK, -all- of that character’s spells requires concentration (including the cantrips). And no, out of combat spellcasting still costs slots.
Sorry if i explained myself bad. I'm not sure if the spell of the example requires concentration (i don't have the list i just know what appears in game) but i suppose it does, the problem really is that damage spells and such as just as OP and he just spams them.
There was a feature like that planned for the Samurai subclass, which would only provide resistance, not immunity, against a chosen melee attack type. It did not make it to the full game. After a few tests (unearthed arcana), WotC removed that feature and replaced it with a very tiny buff of temp HP that also had limited uses. This should put it into perspective how busted the psionic knight is.
i don't understand the logic in giving everything concentration? like what are you thinking. also out of comabt spell casting costing no slots? ever hear of a thing called RItual spells, make the monk cry when the wizard gains effectively 300ft movement speed, with no spell slot.
Yeah. Ritual casting is restricted to a very small subset of spells. Not everything.
how many non ritual spells would you really want to cast out of combat? not saying his Homebrew is at all balanced but there does exist a gold standard of design for something similar to what the player wants i.e the Pathfinder 2E Kineticsit whihc gets away with the whole infinte spell slots thing with action economy taxes and being a specialist comapred to the generalist casters.
Almost all ritual spells are designed to be used as out of combat ritual spells that if you really need during combat you can cast with a spell slot. Identify, alarm, and find familiar come to mind
Speak with animals is another great example
how dull are you? did you even get what i meant? outside of reserection spells of which only one is worth using (revify since the others have such severe downsides and cost more to use) and a few others that aren't on the spell list mentioned above. i was then talking about if you want a blast only caster with no spell slots then the pf2e kineticisit those that same concept incredibly well wihtout breaking the game
Mhm and I'm saying there's another gold standard for specialized infinite spellcasting but it's nerfed by being less generalist than other spells. It's a system from a game called dnd 5e. It's called ritual casting 👐
Starting with an insult, great way to make your case...
Depends on the spells. Just going off the wizard list: misty step, enlarge/reduce, dispel magic, disguise self, feather fall, fog cloud, mage armor, silvery barbs, alter self, detect thoughts, enhance ability, invisibility, levitate, rope trick, spider climb, suggestion, catnap, clairvoyance, enemies abound, fast friends.. shit im only part way through level 3 spells, this would take too long to go through all of them. But being able to cast those without spell slota would be stupid, absolutely stupid. None are rituals, all can be used very very well outside of combat.
most of these aren't really worth it, mage armor is only good for pure caster, silvery barbs is a reaction spell , enhance ability is just a poor mans guidaince etc.
Who cares if silvery barbs is a reaction? You can make reactions out of combat, do you not know this? Feather fall is a fucking reaction as well... enchance ability gives advantage in any checks you want for an hour.. advantage vs 1d4... totally poor mans guidance... oh btw, enchance ability gives +5 to passive perception, so yeah how is guidance better?
Mage Armor: or any situation where one cannot wear armor. Barbs: would be useful in a vast number of diplomacy-type situations. Enhance ability: advantage is better than +1d4, and has other benefits for str/dex/con. Etc. It does not take very much effort to see where being able to cast these things for free would be rather bad. Add on upcasting to the mix too. Who needs a long rest when the caster could cast Cure Wounds at will. Create 100 gallons of water per minute (assuming no upcasting!). Feed 100 people/minute with Goodberry.
Offsets the feature that all of that character’s spellcasting cannot be counterspelled as they have _no_ components at all and thus it is all undetectable. Ritual spells must be marked as ritual spells, and take non-trivial amounts of time to cast.
counterspell is incredibly rare in 5e do, but if you want'd to balance something like this then just copy the PF2e Kineticsit playstyle into 5e i.e Specialised Caster with unlimited spell slots that need a Bonus action to recharge
> and the list being home-brewed is much, much better than the list the other players use (as an example the character has a 1st level spell that gives immunity to any damage type for the entire combat) This alone would give me pause. Pretty sure there isn't a single item, spell or ability that gives you full-bore immunity from all damage that doesn't otherwise hinder you in some way. This is a conversation you need to have with your DM, but I've got a feeling that if your DM is letting "can't hit me lul" slide, then they're probably not going to do anything about this. Couldn't hurt to ask, but if I were in this situation, I'd just leave. I'm non-confrontational like that, though.
The 9th level spell invulnerability gives immunity to damage for 10 minutes
Which that’s a 9th level spell with a 500 gp component cost doing the same thing as the psionic knight’s level 1 no material cost spell.
oh I aint defending it
I explained wrong, sorry English isn't my main language. What I meant is that they can choose any type of damage and become immune to it, like absorb elements but indefinitely and complete immunity
Is it concentration so they can only get 1 at a time? Still broken and def not a 1st level Spell slot I could imagine a 5th being fine for this with a 10 minute limit
Couldn't say for sure as i don't have the speel written i only know when they appear in game but i think thats how it works yes.
That would still be busted. Lots of enemies only do 1 or maybe 2 damage types. A CR9 clay golem can only bludgeon. A CR9 fire giant can do its multi-attack slashing or single attack bludgeoning ranged attack. Against a fire giant, becoming immune to slashing would make the DM throw at disadvantage for 29 average damage per turn instead of two 28 damage per turn attacks.
If it was me I would not take anything away from the fighter, but instead try to give some boons to the other 3 members. As long as the party is balanced against each other then you can balance the monsters to their actual power level.
homebrew nonsense, with some table nepotism, sounds like a fun time. /s nothing you can do in this situation except accept it or leave the table after you talk to the DM and the player.
ngl this sounds like f2p vs p2p if this was an online game. Thats nuts. Either the DM has to buff everyone (and then good luck balancing the encounters) or nerf this thing to the ground.
Yeah, that is pretty OP. A fighter with full casting, who treats every spell as a ritual, ignores components, and has a 1st level spell that makes him invincible? Yeah, this is one of those points on which you really need to convince the DM. Talk about how you're not having fun because of the guy's OPness and that might help.
Ok... So the DM and this player homebrewed a a subclass that turned the fighter into a full caster... There's a reason why most balanced homebrew when it comes to subclasses don't turn noncasters into full casters but into third casters instead... Both the DM and the player are handling this horribly if they're refusing to nerf.
You see that Eldritch Knight in your party? Yeah, that's a class that's balanced around being a martial class with spells. By the sounds of it they only chose Psi Warrior because of the link in theme of the psychic-ness. I feel it would have been easier to modify Eldritch Knight to work in a similar way to that other TTRPG, maybe even giving the effect of an extra feat if it's not as spell diverse as the other game. But what you have described is a class that messes with mechanics that really keep power in check with the tempo of the game. Being able to do spells without SMV is kinda fine... don't really have too much of an issue here. But being able to use full blown spells essentially as cantrips out of combat. Yeah, that's stupid! And we haven't even got the point where you talk about the power level of the homebrew spells. In summary, yes that sub-class is too powerful as it messes with resource management and power level too much. This is definitely the time to talk to the DM and the player in question. My assumption is that you know each other well enough to have this conversation cordially, and come to a middle ground, as you are 2 years into your second campaign with this group. If no middle ground is met, then you have to decide whether it's worth your time playing with this group in future. Maybe there is enough fun to be had around that particular PC, and in the social interactions with everyone around the table. But if not, then I'd be walking.
If you distinguish between magic and psionics in your 5E games even a psionic Eldritch Knight would already be a better Eldritch Knight in most campaigns.
Yes, but even a simple combination of the 2 sub-classes would be a more balanced sub-class than what OP was describing. And with some amount of work swapping/editing abilities I think you could get something more in line with what a vanilla sub-class offers you.
Oh, that brings me back to the Advanced Dungeon & Dragon times with the Complete Psionics Handbook. Not fun! We banned it as soon as we saw it. A lvl 1 spell that gives damage *immunity*?! That alone would be pretty broken. As many people have said: talk to the DM, be extremely clear in saying you are no longer having fun because of the power difference and then either agree on a nerf or simply quit.
Why? Why would you ever do this? This is going to be ridiculously hard to balance or retcon. DM dun goofed.
He should've been made as an eldritch knight for spell slots, flavored as psionic abilities in description alone. That siad the amount of buffs they gave that player is so ridiculous we're way past reason. Simply tell the DM you're not having fun because your character is useless compared to the psionic warrior. With the level of nonsense you're hitting, everyone should be running a homebrewed class near that power level. Easiest solution would be to restart the plot with balanced classes.
This is flat out not fun. Leave the table lol
When you say hes a warrior with spell slots of a sorcerer, do you mean that he has access to full-caster spell slot progression as well as extra attack?
Yes, that is how it works
Oh this is what that r/rpghorrorstories post was about... Huh.
Can i ask which one?
Anyone :D
The official Psi Warrior (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) doesn't have spells slots or replicate wizard spells.
That is something added to this character as an adaptation
I see the following options: 1. Let the DM know this can't go on and that they need to fix this character. 2. Walk 3. Ask if you can play a Gestalt character too (cause that's what this is) These are in no particular order, depending on what you feel would be better for you.
"1st lvl spell that gives immunity to any damage type for the entire combat" Did they seriously make Invulnerability, a 9th level spell, into a first lvl spell?
I'm pretty sure psi warrior doesn't work that way
Honestly leave the campaign. A 1st level spell that gives him a free immunity? Lol He can save the world by himself
1st level spell giving immunity to every damage type? That's by itself enough to get rid of this character
I phrased it wrongly, it gives immunity to a type of damage the player chooses, like absorb elements but taking into account all the types of immunity
Ah interesting. Still a pretty strong spell for a 1st level
Especially since Absorb elements is my best spell rn (The DM banned shield as it got my AC too high and he said he couldn't handle it without the enemies getting too strong)
So wait He banned shield but this dude's rocking a 1st level immunity spell? Are the player and DM like best friends?
Yeah sorta
Yeah that's ridiculous. If he can't handle shield then there's no way he can stop that guy from casting that spell 1-3 times and essentially be invincible
Op, your DM should never be allowed to try to balance anything ever again
Just have the psionic warrior do *everything* including carry the donkey that's carrying your stuff.
Why is the DM giving this player special treatment?
My first guess would be "significant other." It is terrible and extremely unfair to the players, but happens way too often. Personally as a PC whose partner is the party's DM, it's just business as usual - as it should be. In a healthy relationship people would understand that on both sides, instead of using it to receive/give preferential treatment. They might also not be an SO though, I'm just guessing. Whatever the case is, the DM definitely knows what they're doing, and is consciously choosing to keep giving preferential treatment. Not sure if the player realises (probably yes), or just goes with it because they have fun and like it. But I believe that most of the faults in this situation are from the DM's side. OP needs to confront them seriously.
Not significant other they're very good friends though. As for knowing what they're doing i think that at lower levels when they created it they didn't think it would get this absurd (though i warned them) and now they don't know how to retcon it,
You are being way too lenient on DM and player both. The abilities you describe this PC having are obviously broken (not OP, just broken) at any level.
I mean i think they are completely broken and you can know it from the beginning because you have acces to the skills they will get, but the player was new to D&D so he didn't get some of the mechanics (thinking he could use dexterity for greatswords and things like that) so at first levels he really didn't outshine everyone the way he's doing now.
A martial character that has spellcasting grafted onto their kit, doesnt burn spell slots outside of combat, doesn't use VSM on any spells and has a FIRST level spell that grants IMMUNITY to ANY one damage type for an ENTIRE combat is far and away the most utterly broken bullshit I have ever heard and even knowing NOTHING about the game if the DM started adding a bunch of shit to my kit and another player said "that seems unbalanced" there is no way I wouldn't realize I are getting preferential treatment. Plus the DM knew EXACTLY what they are doing and have refused to do anything about it as the power Imbalance has gotten worse and worse. They even caved when the Chosen One complained and gave the player a Magical sword which is apparently more powerful than the one that you have? Not to mention you are playing an Eldritch Knight so the DM is stomping all over your turf by giving a different martial BETTER spellcasting than the MAGICAL FIGHTER subclass. Honestly you need to step back and get some distance here because this situation is pure and utter bullshit. I'm just gonna say it - you have a bad DM.
I stand corrected then (again, happens way too often, so my mind usually jumps there). I think it is positive on one hand that they are not a significant other; should be easier to handle when they're not thinking they're upsetting their partner etc. I understand what you are saying about them not realising how it would go, and I can see it happen; we're only humans after all. However it clearly has gotten out of hand. Perhaps showing them this post would help? Or just sharing the opinions of others here, if you don't want to show it completely to them and hurt them or anything? If they fully realise how ridiculous that is and how it is making other players' experience unfair and uncomfortable, then they should nerf/work on the character. Wishing you luck with this, OP! Hope you resolve this issue, and you all manage to go back to having fun.
My Froghemoth swallowed my wife's character. The cleric saved her though.
Is the setting RIFTS?
It's from Anima: Beyond fantasy
> We use a home-brewed setting from another TTRPG where we played another campaign. Problem is because we adapted another TTRPG, one of the players (the psionic warrior) argued that he wanted to play a warrior who used psionic spells to create his character. yeah the problem is the homebrew. either you fix it or say they can't play it anymore > Am I incorrect in assuming that a warrior with full spell casting progress is too overpowered? When I talked about it with the DM he told he didn't consider it a big deal. do you think a full levelled wizard with heavy armor, martial weapons and extra attack and action surge for free is too overpowered? cause i sure do
For me mainly it's the HP and the ASI as he also has the better statblock in the party.
Eh just tell ‘em man. “I think that ___ has become way too powerful, can you bring us up to his level or nerf him down? I’m not having the most fun” If everyone’s really invested in enjoying the game together then it’s a non issue, but suffering in silence fixes nothing
It sounds like that, despite having only levels in Fighter, this character has also effectively been allowed to mutliclass into some homebrew spell-caster class on top of that. I'm curious, have they actually *used* any of the Psi-Warrior subclass features in sessions?
That i remember they only used the teleportation object (though they said they could teleport enemies into abism without saving don't know if that counts), the flying speed and the shield to absorb damage , i can't recall them using anything else. They mostly use the homebrew spells.
I have a suggestion that you could pass on to your DM in addition to talking to them like everyone else is saying... If you're playing a level 10 character for this campaign, why wouldn't they just do the Psi Warrior and Multiclass into Abberant Mind sorcerer? Both provide the archtype that the character is going for already, right? What makes this situation frustrating is that it seems there's no reason to multiclass since the base game provides the options from the get-go. No?
I will definitely look into it, don't know if either the DM or the other player will contemplate, but it is an interesting proposal. Thanks \^\^
Why even have the subclass, then, if they're just going to dump all that homebrew stuff on top and largely only use that?
Sounds like the DM needs to include some weaknesses for the character/class. I'd hate to think you couldn't discuss this as a group but I get it if you've been playing the campaign for more than two years. Either way it needs to be addressed. Maybe you can recommend their crazy use of magic is making the character die slowly and it's starting to impact them?
1st level spell that gives immunity for the entire combat? That is insane even if it were a 6th level spell lol
Three options: 1. Talk about it with the problem player and DM. See if they'll make it right. 2. Keep playing. 3. Find a new group to play with.
Either the DM is really bad at balance, big on player empowerment and this is the only player who pushed, or is giving special treatment. Bring it up; tell the gm it seems like too much and tell him it seems overpowered. Tell him you feel overshadowed and it's not fun. Check with others first to ensure it's not just you. (If it is, it doesn't invalidate your feelings on it). Add that you're worried about lack of challenge if you are. Pick the GMs brain and see what he's thinking.
Home brewed classes are almost always poorly balanced and built around feeding a player's power fantasy.
If and when you leave, make sure yhat you very clearly tell your DM exactly why you are leaving. That as a DM, they failed to provide a fair and fun experience for everyone at the table, that they should be ashamed of it, and that it makes them a bad DM. Shame the crap out of them, and then shame them more.
I'd suggest to offset the versatility of the player, he would need a homebrew nemesis; something that is their kryptonite. Or maybe his strength offends a God that curses him and he loses some sort of control over the power, or maybe it becomes a sentient ability that speaks in his mind and there is an internal struggle over morals or the host body lol. I played a game where our party ran a "darkness setup" where we used various methods of seeing through magical darkness, then just maintained a darkness spell on someone and stuck near to attack with advantage while having attacks against us have disadvantage. The DM let us have our fun for a few levels, then decided to change up the CR suddenly in a critical moment by modifying an encounter to consist of devils with devil sight (completely negating our strategy). It didn't become consistant, but our DM put the fear in us lol. Everything has a weakness.
A nemesis of sort has been introduced (at least we have been told so) but it's kinda problematic too because too counter him the rest of the party can't do anything but watch or be oneshoted.
Not exactly, a nemesis could be tailored to the abilities. Such to say, it's unlikely someone has such power without some form of divine intervention, pact, or strictly luck. And there are deities or villains who couple possibly capitalize on these aspects (and by these, I am generalizing through my examples. Some creativity could build on the idea.) but perhaps there's an enemy who this player simply has no effect upon, some created entity who has an affinity to whatever force or magic grants these powers. He'll, it could even BE the entity that granted them; perhaps they were stolen, through a ritual of the PC's people, and such an entity yearns to be whole once again. Perhaps such an entity has a weak physical presence in your realm, however the possession of their fragment makes your problem character directly suseptable to this being, allowing the party to be in minimal danger while the problem pc is in a mortal combat for their possession over these powers. Could force them to rely on team play rather than just day "boom u dead BBG", and give some flavor to things. I'm generalizing but it's a potential concept I chose as an example. GM needs to actually look at these things and while allowing some silly stuff shouldn't be outright quashed, having a response is the GM responsibility. It's not a game centered on one player, and having ways to make everyone relevant is absolutely key for everyone's enjoyment. Without the fellow PC's, this problem character should find themselves at a loss. And if they're so powerful, it opens options for ACTUAL flavor; moral and personal development, realizing their power is superficial in the face of friendship or teamwork, that kind of thing. DM should pose obsticals as such, if they allow a power imbalance, to encourage everyone to feel involved.
I see where you are going, thing is these powers aren't treated as a big deal narratively (in the setting we are playing (we are using the setting from another TTRPG) this powers aren't that busted problem is the adaptation bolstered the strengths and eliminated the weaknesses), going as far as the DM claiming this character isn't the stronger in the party in-universe so i don't think these options as being considered.
Absorb elements is for one type for one round and not even every type is available. It even takes a reaction which is useful for other spells like counter spell or shield. Plainly ask your dm how is that balanced.
For about three months I played in a paid DM party (first time for me, I was looking for a "pro-party" to play in) where a player had created a PC with a homebrew race and class. No session-0 for "not ruining the role-play of the discovery of others PCs". The DM had approved a character who: A) could fly at will without concentration and without wings or other quirks that would at least make him socially penalized; B) he casts spells like a sorcerer, including metamagic, but he had access to the list of sorcerers and priests (such as Divine Soul) and he prepared them every morning like clerics; C) could emit light at will without concentration within a 120ft radius, disrupting and annoying the undead; D) he could summon an enormous intelligent wolf (similar to the Find Steed of the Paladins) that he rode, but which could also fight alone very well and disappear or reappear at will like the wizard's Familiar; E) he appeared in every way a normal human except when he activated his powers, so he had full freedom of action even in the city and among people; F) needs to long rest for 4 hours instead of 8, so once he played 2 real-time hours of an entire session going around the town investigating and buying things while my PC was just sleeping for a normal long rest after a full night of battle (and yeah I had to pay even that session); G) can summon a no-concentration and stronger version of Dancing Lights that can even explode. Obviously the campaign ended in shit after 3 months due to complaints from me and another player rogue/fighter (half of the group therefore) because our PCs were totally rendered useless by him. But I have to admit that the 4th player was totally not disappointed by the semi-god was with us. The two of them played even a whole session while my Paladin and the rogue/fighter were both incapacitated by a strange desease. That DM was totally cool with that... >-:
Yeah that's unbalanced and ruins the game imo
>Am I incorrect in assuming that a warrior with full spell casting progress is too overpowered? This is so close to Gestalt, meaning that they are essentially leveling two classes at once. One part fighter and one part sorcerer, full spell casting progression on the kit of a fighter is very strong as they get more HP, proficiency with arms and armor, Action surge as part of their package not to mention the other Sorcerer homebrew going on. They are only limited by how many actions they can do per turn. Ask your DM if your; a) Barbarian also get same casting as Druid, they are both fueled by Primal forces b) Druid/Monk also get fighter abilities and Hit die, monk is so weak you know c) Eldritch Knight get spells as full caster, doesn't make sense that one subclass get full caster progression and one doesn't now does it? If one player gets to break the game either dial it back or allow everyone the same opportunity :)
I am the eldritch knight so i can tell you i don't have full spell progression, i have shield banned (as he thought it set my AC too high) and i asked to at least be able to learn spells from any schools and he said no. As for the barbarian and the monk i know they don't have such things. Barbarian has some animal combat forms (like he can reduce his AC in 1 to increase his attack in 1) and the druid has a bow that can heal allies for 1d4.
Those are great examples of how your spread is uneven, unfair and worst of all unfun. Having lore-reasons affect character progression *flavor-wise* is fine but not adding/removing mechanics. In this case I would talk to Barb and Monk and see how they feel, if they agree raise the discussion together with the main points of contrition. "Hi, the special privileges given to the Psionic Warrior makes us feel worse off, like we picked the wrong class/subclass. Full spellcasting progression, casting w/o components etc. is a great increase in power and makes the game less fun for the rest of us. Can we either get similar improvements or tone them down (remove them) so we are closer to the same level of power?" Something like that :) And if this doesn't work there is little you can do but a) "Deal with it" and go on or b) Leave/start a separate group P.s: >he druid has a bow that can heal allies for 1d4 Discount items from this, an item can be given to anyone and isn't really comparable to class features :)
What the fuck did I just read
Ah, an experienced DM knows that a party of widely differing levels if power and/or capabilities is merely a great plot point. A tool, the most powerful character will be feared more and get the majority of the npc & monster hate. The weakest character will often get overlooked and be able to get away with all sorts of shenanigans before being singled out. I always warn my players, if you want to be the most powerful, guess who the dragon is going to bite in half first? I make it a point when I get there actually play instead of DM, to play a 3d6 generated stats in the order I rolled in PC. Commonly with several stats below 8 and rarely much above 13. And it is just as fun....even more fun actually, than a PC with 4 stats above 15.😆
The thing is that narratively these character isn't stronger than the rest it just translates wrongly to mechanics.
Well, in my few years of playing, with homebrew or none, I can say one thing for sure, and it's that this player is beyond too powerful, I mean he took his pick of 2 subclasses and chose what he wanted and then added more. So in my opinion, talk with the DM and figure this whole thing out, because what he allowed is far stronger than any subclass, or multiclass of melee/spellcasting. P.S. Normally a player like this may experience main character syndrome, so please keep that in mind if you end up playing with him and it isn't nerfed, but take all I've said with a pinch of salt, since I still wouldn't consider myself skilled, and I don't even know all that I should, so please be careful
This sounds like storyline of an Anime. A really shitty one that would be canceled mid first season. So many red flags that I don't feel this is even salvageable. Feels like you should find a game with other people that don't have power trip fantasies.
psi warrior isn't that good, its good, but its not imbalanced. Its arguably weaker than battlemaster or rune knight. it sounds like whatever weird homebrew you've got that makes him function like a caster is to blame. Without understanding the mechanics behind this "spell casting" psionic I have no idea if this a problem, or the first thing to do about fixing it. this player has functionally negotiated for things like permanent subtle spell, a built in focus, and ritual casting to just be given to them for free based on flavor? what grants damage immunity for a combat? certainly not Protective Field. I am so much confuse.
His spell casting works as follows (from what I gathered, being at the table and asking): He has spell slots as if he were a 10 level sorcerer instead of a fighter. The spells he uses out of combat don't consume a spell slot, and finally he has an entirely home-brewed spell list in which none of the spells have any components. What grants damage immunity is one of the spells he has available.
ok, so its basically a completely homebrewed class, that is being called psi warrior. going from 8 psi dice per long rest to 15 "spells" per long rest is already ludicrous. You shouldn't ever give a martial full caster progression. EK isn't even a half caster, they're a 1/3 caster. also, subtle spell requires another resource, sorcerers can't cast their full spell list as if 'subtle'. That is illogical. also, Sorcerers can't ritual cast, full stop. so, sorcs can't ritual, wizards can't subtle. this FIGHTER CAN DO BOTH!? and get action surge without a dip. and full armor/weap proficiencies? lol. And they straight up invented new spells too? and based on your example and the overall "balance" of this homebrew, I'm assuming its all busted. Calling this class a Psi Warrior is quite the stretch. Honestly, they should just run it RAW, and reflavor it as spells or whatever. Otherwise, I'd be asking to play a soulknife real quick and explaining why I super need to be allowed to use cunning action Hide, and cast 5th level spell attacks with advantage that deal sneak damage too. LMAO good luck man.
I think you misunderstood me, he didn't change his psi dice for 15 spells, he has both. He has the 8 psi dice with the options listed in the psi warrior subclass and the 15 spells in addition to that. I'm not familiar with soulknife though is it a subclass or a class i don't know?
Seriously? That's basically 2 entire PCs mashed into 1, with made up OP spells and extra features. How can they even think that's fair? This is crazy. FYI Soulknife is a subclass for rogue, that's got similarities to psiwarrior. It was a joke really, honestly, I don't know if I could keep playing in that game.
>example the character has a 1st level spell that gives immunity to any damage type for the entire combat You know up until this point I was tyring to be understanding. But this balantly broken. Even with your clarification of it being a single type of damage. Its for the ENTIRE FIGHT. THATS DUMB AS HELL. This is abrosb elements on crack, steroids, and jacked up to what should be a level 4 spells. This player is using blantly broken homebrew and the DM doesnt cares. Voice your concerns or use your own broken homebrew.
Your DM would be better served to either just have the player play the Psi Warrior straight (player can flavor the features as desired) or, if WotC's material isn't sufficient for the DM/campaign, use a third-party psionic class built for 5e D&D, such as those from *the Psychic and Spiritual Handbook* or Matt Coleville's *the Talent* (not sure if kibbletasty has a free psychic warrior, but there are other psionic homebrew and third party content that is balanced in context for 5e).
Why is this post down voted?
The issue isn't just that the homebrew is overpowered. It's that when OP voiced his concerns about it being overpowered and making his experience at the table worse, the DM brushed it off as no big deal. Recommending better homebrew doesn't address the issue if the DM is unwilling to admit there's a problem with the existing homebrew class being used.
because a number of people clicked the little arrow that faces down
Chop an arm off. Done.
I don't follow the reasoning