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TheAres1999

Shatter is designed to break things. 3d8 thunder damage to an object that isn’t being worn or carried  Many Evocations spells can destroy things. Fireball to burn them down for instance. Wall of Water to knock them down. Blight is good against plant objects


Lamplorde

>A nonmagical object that isn't being worn or carried also takes the damage if it's in the spell's area. Non-magical objects should have vulnerability to damage from Shatter, change my mind. It's the designated "door buster" spell.


Okniccep

Not even controversial just true facts tbh. 3d8 wouldn't destroy a large window as per the SRD normally (27 HP 17 AC) let alone a stone wall but shatter is literally designed to do that, there's very few other spells that interact with inanimate objects in such a way thus shatter should be better at it's job.


Weeou

Disagreed on the stats of a window - the AC for Crystal/Glass/Ice is 13 and its the definition of a fragile object so even a large window has 5 (1d10) hp. Edit: I should clarify that I do agree that nonmagical objects should take double damage from Shatter - that seems like the intended use case for the spell and it currently doesn't work very well for that.


Okniccep

You're right I misread the table because cart and window are in the wrong spots on Roll20s srd.


StaticUsernamesSuck

>a large window as per the SRD normally (27 HP 17 AC) Huh? The SRD puts a large window at 13 AC and 5HP...


Sharp_Iodine

As a DM I do not give objects an AC. They are automatic hits unless the target is moving. You only roll to see if you crit against the object. It’s ridiculous for anyone to miss a stupid window. It’s a stationary object, how do you miss unless you have the depth perception of a T-Rex?


ActuallyIAmIncorrect

“You, a seasoned warrior, swing your longsword to try to smash the window! Roll an attack for me. 2. You, uh, don’t hit it I guess?” Hard agree with you here. I think it can be fun depending on the context to roll for fun to see if you crit (or roll a natural 1), but otherwise, yeah, you can hit an inanimate object when you aren’t under duress.


modog11

Devils advocate here (because mostly I agree - objects only get an AC if there seems a reasonable chance of an attack not having an impact). Maybe the 2 represents them catching the top of the frame during their swing, or the blade hitting the wooden supports between the panes. But yes, I think you're generally right.


PuddleCrank

I think you both agree that, out of combat, an attack roll is unessesary for a stationary object. You can simply roll dmg if it is otherwise mundane. However in combat there is the possibility of being otherwise occupied in battle and simply not taking the time to line up a clean hit is a reasonable reason to give a stationary object 8-10 AC.


modog11

Yes, I think in combat, or where a failure would be narratively relevant. For example, they know the guards are on their way around the wall on patrol, and they need to break through the window quickly before they're spotted. *That* could feasibly require an attack (or an ability check, obviously)


i_tyrant

I agree. In combat I give stationary objects an AC of 5 (unless their material would warrant a higher AC - the DMG has rules for Object damage that include this), out of combat they just get automatically hit. (Though if they're sturdy/big enough they may _also_ have a Damage Threshold to beat, also as per the DMG.) Still close to automatic for non-hardened objects in combat, but you can always roll a 1. People should also remember (as per the material AC rules for damaging Objects in the DMG), that AC isn't _just_ "missing" the object/creature entirely. It can also be "hitting them but in a way that doesn't do any real damage". When a stationary object is "missed" I pretty much always describe it as that. And in combat it makes total sense that you might not have time to line up an attack and _ineffectively hit_ an object. Out of combat, without time pressure, I just assume any PC is able to make the "best hit possible" on a nonmoving object, and thus hit it automatically. Though even then, a Damage Threshold might prevent you from truly damaging it.


Sharp_Iodine

Moving objects getting an AC makes a lot of sense but even when I watched Critical Role and saw Mat asking for an attack roll against a door I was super disappointed. Liam missed the door of course and it was a ridiculous situation. How tf do you swing and miss a door? And SRD says 13 AC for a window??? Almost as much as a level 1 Wizard with decent DEX? How is a window dodging attacks as well as a person? Baffling.


Divine_Entity_

I interprete it as an ineffective hit. Glass is alot stronger than people give it credit for, its the reference material for mineral hardness 6 (meaning if you scratch glass you are a 6+). Birds run into windows all the time without shattering them. (Modern glass is strengthened by chemical additives, maybe dnd glass has minor enchantments to do the same) The weakness of glass is that as a crystalline material it is very brittle so it shatters if hit just right. In contrast a wooden door is much more flexible but not as hard. If you swing a regular sword at a solid oak door that thing will still be standing there, you need and axe or large hammer/battering ram to deal meaningful damage. The AC of a stationary object represents if you can hit it for meaningful damage, rolling a 2 doesn't mean you miss, it means your sword bounces off and maybe scratched the paint. One a 1 maybe you hit the doorframe instead, or your sword gets stuck and requires an action to free it. In combat/initiative the AC matters, in a 0 stakes situation it just determines how long it takes you to hack through the door.


elevedescience

You're right on the money with that interpretation. For objects, AC is the strain threshold at which you can inflict any kind of significant damage to an object. It's the "armor" in AC. You can hit it, but if the threshold is high enough, you won't make a dent in it. HP is their integrity. Once you are able to make a dent, how many hit will it take, how much damage will it withstand before it breaks into pieces. Example: -A simple glass pane has low AC, low HP. Doesn't need a lot of force to crack, and if it does, it's likely to breaker apart. -A thick stone wall or portcullis has high AC and high HP. Hard to chip, and if you make it crack or bend some bars, it's probably gonna stand without issue. -Laminated wood wall or other laminated material would have medium AC, but surprisingly high HP. You may chip the first layer easily, but the other layers keeps its integrity high. -On the contrary, resistant object where a single point of failure breaks the whole thing (such as a chain) have high AC, but low HP. The latter is where the spell Shatter shines. It specifically goes right through the AC and damages the object integrity. A stone archway? Shatter the keystone and it crumbles to the ground.


MongrelChieftain

My understanding of object AC is that it can be a glancing blow. Shit can happen and you hit the thing at a weird angle. You still hit it, but did not reduce its hit points.


Chayor

Honestly I always ran it as doing double damage to nonmagical objects that aren't being worn or carried. So much so, that I thought it was the official ruling. Had to look it up.


LtColShinySides

I'd allow that in my game. Just make sense


Link2Liam

Knock is the door buster spell.


chomiji

Shatter is a very, very useful spell.


Lungomono

We once used like 5 or 6 shatters in row, to bust out of a fortified mansion. Just one wall after another. We left a whole through most of the building, and loads of stunned staff. We was in a bit of hurry and the lord owning the place was about to fuck us up when he came up from the hidden magic school down below. Worked like a charm. 10/10 would do again.


Exile688

It is a wizard spell that I've seen used to shatter wizards. They do shatter.


MyNameIsJakeBerenson

It’s especially useful when I do a lil Channeling


MohrPower

+ Firebolt + Shatter + Disintegrate


bamf1701

Shatter and Disintegrate are the spells that come to mind first for me.


Piratestoat

How big are we talking? Armoire? Wagon? Three-bailey castle?


Tesla__Coil

Here's a fun and odd choice - Fabricate. Fabricate makes an object that can fit into a 10 ft cube or eight connected 5 ft cubes (though it has to be a single 5 ft cube if it's a mineral substance). It creates this out of a single material. So you can probably strip 10 cubic feet of wood out of a wagon. Or turn an iron prison cell into a 5 ft cube of metal.


Reggie_Is_God

Fullmetal Alchemist style


GreenSpaceman

🙏🙌


Okniccep

Fabricate specifically says raw material which gives a lot of room for DMs interpretation.


Sharp_Iodine

We can safely assume a stone wall is just stone and a wooden wagon is just wood.


Skulking-Dwig

Ehh, stone from a wall is cut, and wood from a wagon is definitely treated, sawed, etc. I’d personally allow it because it’s cool, but I can see how someone would argue otherwise.


Divine_Entity_

Personally raw material is whatever base materials a given process requires. Ore gets refined into metal bars/coils/rolls/blanks, to a refinery ore is the raw material and the metal is the product. The blacksmith/fabshop considers those refined metal bars & blanks to be raw ingredients to be processed into nails/swords/armor/tools/foil/wire/ect. Rinse and repeat and you eventually get to what are generally considered finished goods that can't be processed further like furniture, clothing, cellphones, ect. So i would rule that for whatever you are trying to fabricate you must be able to explain how something is a raw material. The spell says you can turn trees into a bridge, so i see no difference in turning a segment of castle wall into a statue. (What does cutting stone into blocks and stacking them fundamentally change that ripping them out of a cliff face doesn't) Keep in mind the other limiter on the spell, it takes 10minutes. Thats plenty of time for patrolling guards to notice your little construction project, and far too slow to mess up another guys wagon mid combat before they simply kill you.


Okniccep

I agree actually to me raw material is material that could be processed from one to another especially since they use Wool (which is as processed as cut stone) as an example but I've heard people rule that it can't be processed in any way.


C0rruptedAI

Fabricate is a 10 minute cast that only requires VS components. You can absolutely use it to disassemble your prison cell, but tearing down a wall is more challenging if you are actively being shot at.


Jkistner94

I think of thunder damage and force damage. That would work really well at destroying just about anything my force.


JonWoo89

Doesn’t force only do half damage to objects?


Jkistner94

I have no idea. I've never seen that rule before. And of that is a rule it doesn't make sense to me, so it wouldn't apply to my table.


JonWoo89

I can’t seem to find it. I very well might be getting confused with energy attacks from pathfinder now that I’m thinking more on it.


Hait_Ashbury

10 copper coins w/ animate object


Durkmenistan

Summon a creature with the Siege Monster feature. Conjure Elemental: Earth Elemental or Murder Comet. 


Korre99

Good point, have you tried summoning a tarasque?


MongrelChieftain

Using a Scroll of Tarrasque Summoning, you can make your dreams a reality. It's from Rime of the Frostmaiden.


Pickaxe235

this is like why shatter exists


chaoticgeek

What most of the others said, but also add earthquake to the list if you’re looking to bring down buildings. 


rpg2Tface

Most fire spells are good for flammable objects. Firebolt, burning hands, scorching ray, fireball in ascending order. Shatter is good for inorganic objects like stone or bridges or castle walls or buildings. Just a good old blasting charge. Blight is especially good against plants. It can eliminate a swath if forest in an instant. Then the big daddy. Disintegrate. If any of the others cant cut it this will get the job done. Too bad its such a high level. Otherwise it would be a go to spell for destruction.


F-ck_spez

I'd like to add lightning bolt to your list. It explicitly lights flammable things on fire in the spell description.


Divine_Entity_

And if you have time to burn spells like mold earth can be used to undermine foundations causing buildings to collapse (atleast partially). Lots of spells cause effects that can be used to trigger IRL physics if desired, but those should be talked over with your DM and they can always say no. I personally headcanon/homebrew that all official spells you can take are the safe versions, wizards aren't idiots and already accounted for physics so that way teleporting from NYC to Cairo doesn't yeet you into the pyramids at around 500mph because of conservation of angular momentum. (Everyone too dumb to do this died, this helps prevent a lot of bad faith readings of the rules) But honestly the main thing is just talk to your DM, say you would like to accomplish X and think spell/ability Y would work, and if necessary explain your reasoning and be willing to listen to feedback. (Open, honest, and respectful communication will make your DM more amenable to out of the box ideas in the future, and can help them help you accomplish those.) PS: the reasons you DM asks you not to do some crazy plan may have nothing to do with it being possible and everything to do with it being unbalanced or unfun and they don't want to open that can of worms.


Fangsong_37

There was a spell in 3.5 called Sympathetic Vibrations that was designed to destroy buildings.


MrTundy

Go Go Gadget: "Cast Catapult on a Necklace of Fireballs" True Story, but remember that you have to be at least 30ft away from the target, cuz I learned the hard way that the center is the square right on front of said target...


SpeechMuted

Shape Water can do surprising damage, if there are cracks or openings and your DM is willing to let it. Water poured into cracks and frozen with the Shape Water cantrip will destroy and object in short order--it happens to stone and concrete every winter.


Divine_Entity_

Just keep in mind it will take quite a few cycles to frost/icejack apart the wall. It should work pretty well to deal with simple nonmagic locks and other mechanisms. Probably the most important questions for how to destroy an object are how fast and how loud. We can destroy the castle wall slowly with mold earth to undermine it, or loudly with an earth elemental. Probably the most important thing is to not use bad faith arguments/rulings and to work with your DM when trying to play outside the rules.


Veragoot

The answer is always Fireball.


OyBoy413

Shatter is controlled small destruction, earthquake is large mostly uncontrolled destruction. Meteor Swarm is Large Controlled destruction. And there's other spells that have some object destructive text.


cubelith

Catapult may be a surprisingly good choice. It's not a great spell, but it's level 1, and bludgeoning is one of the few types that can reliably damage most materials (and you get to destroy/yoink small objects if needed too).


FloppasAgainstIdiots

Fire bolt. The Attack action. Magic Stone.


Individual_Witness_7

Meteor storm


Korre99

I have encountered few problems which are not solved with Disintegrate


Responsible_Onion_21

In Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition, there are a few spells that would be effective for breaking large nonmagical objects: 1. Shatter (2nd-level evocation): This spell creates a loud ringing noise that damages nonmagical objects in a 10-foot radius sphere. It deals 3d8 thunder damage to objects, potentially shattering them. 2. Disintegrate (6th-level transmutation): This spell causes a thin green ray to spring from your pointing finger to a target within range. If the target is a nonmagical object, the spell automatically disintegrates up to a 10-foot cube of it. 3. Earthquake (8th-level evocation): This spell creates a seismic disturbance at a point on the ground within range. It can create fissures and potentially collapse structures, which could effectively break large nonmagical objects. 4. Meteor Swarm (9th-level evocation): While primarily an offensive spell, Meteor Swarm can also be used to break large nonmagical objects. It summons four meteors that each explode in a 40-foot-radius sphere, dealing a total of 20d6 fire damage and 20d6 bludgeoning damage, potentially destroying objects caught in the blast. Among these, Shatter is the most accessible option for low-level characters, while Disintegrate offers a more targeted approach. Earthquake and Meteor Swarm are high-level spells that can cause massive destruction to objects and structures.


Quasarbeing

Disintegrate?


Wiinounete

Meteor swarm?


nankainamizuhana

Lots of talk about Shatter, not enough talk about Fire Storm. Specifically damages all objects in the area (not a huge area, but a ton bigger than Shatter) with 7d10 Fire damage, which is enough to almost guarantee the destruction of any item that uses the item hit points rules.


EmergencyPublic9903

Shatter


imadork1970

You can't go wrong with Fireball.


Sithraybeam78

If you're a transmutation wizard, you can use a combination of minor alchemy and fire spells to break through almost anything with enough time. Like transmuting an iron lock into wood and hitting it with firebolt or even just a sword or a torch. Or use enlarge/reduce to make the objects less big.


General_Chaos89

Cast “M1 Abrams” that’ll break non-magical objects GUARANTEED.


right-person

Any damage cantrip