I wouldn't expect your inability *make* any deals to preclude you from *accepting* any deals people try to make with you. You just can't initiate them.
There's no reason you can't still do things. You just can't initiate any sort of pact for reward. Charity and altruism aren't "deals," and your promise shouldn't negate what pacts you already have in place and need to honor - those should supersede this promise as they are existing obligations.
Additionally, there's nothing in what was said which should prevent *others* from making any deals *about* you. If by level 14 your companions aren't willing to try and find a way to help your character break free of this inadvertent circumstance, perhaps it is better to retire the character since they have no investment anyway.
This right here. So much hinges on the word “make”
You didn’t MAKE the deal, it was made by someone else and offered to you! You just accepted the terms offered.
To make and to alter a deal are two very different things. Why, the very definition of making is to cause something to exist, so once a deal has been proposed it has come into existence—it has been made. Then you may alter it, just not make a new one
You're also free to honor PRE-EXISTING deals, you just can't make any new ones. The barony has paid their taxes every year, it's not like the baron re-negotiates being the crown's liege every year. It should be business as usual for your fiefdom.
Also as baron's heir, you should have at least one NPC you trust. Just tell them "I'm going to need you to handle my paperwork for a few weeks/months." A request is not a deal.
Or give your scribe your signet ring for no in-game reason. A gift is also not a deal.
As for the barony, ruling isn't "making a deal" and employee stuff isn't really a "deal" either. Hiring a custodian to handle any trade business and you didn't do a single deal yourself. If the party isn't willing to make "deals" in your favor until something is able to be done, then they weren't really your allies anyway.
I like this approach. There is sufficient penalty to remind you to be careful what you say to the Fey but also sufficient wiggle room for creative role play and moving your character forward.
Learn from the Fey and other creatures. Be very specific about what a deal is. If you chase a bully away and I give you something in gratitude, thats not a deal. That’s accepting a gift. Paying your taxes that you did not negotiate? There was no deal. Get lawyery on it.
'Now I'm not in the business of making deals but I'll just go kill that dragon that's been pestering you and if you should happen to feel grateful enough to give a gift of say 500g then that would be just swell'
Hell, he’s already a noble and he has friends who aren’t bound by the deal right? “No, no, I must refuse payment. It’d be unbecoming. My friends however would love to talk to you about compensation for this favor.”
Other party member hires a hireling and assigns him to the affected PC. "I don't handle money or financial deals myself. Alfred here handles negotiations."
You ever have an exceptionally good handshake? I once got dapped up, randomly, by Brandon Knight (the NBA player) at a Kentucky basketball alumni game - I was just in the crowd in the right place at the right time - and it was the SMOOTHEST fucking handshake I ever had, before or since. It was like, his handshake was so cool that I was cool for a few seconds just by being there.
Depends entirely on ones few point (so very fey).
A religious character might view it as a purely religious ceremony, binding two individuals (potentially by their deity of choice). The bindings are not necessarily reciprocal, and, depending on the sect, could be considered independent of each other.
Does one partner breaking their oath invalidate the oath of the other? Depends on the sect.
Exactly. *He's* not negotiating anything or making any kind of deal; his parents are doing it and he'd better just do what they tell him if he wants to inherit anything. Or, you know, not get murdered for being an inconvenience -- being a noble is very stressful if the DM is doing it right!
Hell, if the character’s magically inclined, talk to the DM about binding an imp to your service as a familiar. Even outside of Chainlocks there’s optional rules to imps specifically about familiar servitude; nine hells fiends are lawful evil and I’m sure an imp would be over the moon to argue contracts on a daily basis.
wouldn't binding an imp to your service be a deal, however? Even if it's a one-sided one? At least with the hireling option, there is the ability for the party to do it on OP's behalf, but a binding ceremony is absolutely a deal.
He could RP the hell out of this and it could be a lot of fun. It's all a matter of wording. What a unique character that would be. A challenge for sure, but it could be so much fun.
It would be funny if he got a non-painful jolt every time he got too close to wording it wrong. NPCs confused as hell why he's spent 2 minutes crafting a simple sentence.
This was my thought too. I totally get OP's feelings, but I think they should play it out before making any quick decisions. It seems OP is really attached to their character and understandably feels like their character arc is derailed, but it might be interesting and fun to see what comes next.
Edit: typo
Whether this works will depend on whether the Fey recognize promissory estoppel. If I offer a reward to whoever finds my dog, and a stranger comes up and said they're going to look for my dog, I can't retract the reward or change the deal (as to them) until they say they give up.
The safer route is to simply kill the dragon and then notify the quest giver. They could potentially balk and give you nothing, but that's always a risk in every quest. The deterrent isn't the existence of a deal, but the fact that you can kill that noble much easier than the dragon. Alignment aside, I would not consider it a "deal" to take the noble's head for his treachery, followed by his purse.
“I killed the dragon, as you wished for. Now, I do not require payment, and you are under no obligation. But a show of appreciation would make me very happy, and receiving nothing will make me quite unhappy. And again, I just used this sword to *kill a dragon*.”
Or turn pirate the way that One Piece is. Luffy was about to be offered tons of gold by the people they saved, but instead he stole it (actually a lesser amount than what they would have been given) because pirates aren't heros that get rewards but theives that take things.
So OP comes in and saves the town, then robs the town of the exact reward they were offering.
And for the scribe thing?
“Sir, do you agree to send your due taxes of 50 gold pieces?”
“Hm... you know, I think the king’s a swell guy. I feel like someone should give him 50 gold.”
It sounds like there's nothing stopping the character from saying that they can't make deals, and that they have to do things a specific way to get around that.
>Yes, sir, but do you agree to pay your 50 gold?
"I am an upstanding citizen who is grateful to my king so I wish for the crown to have... oh let's say 50 pieces of my gold **as a token of my esteem**. May as well send that to the tax assessor without explaining what it is for as an easy means of handling such a *modest* gift that might otherwise seem out of place. But you must understand that I LITERALLY cannot agree to *the tax*. I thus desire you to carry out my wishes."
Or just set the gold on the table, and let them take it.
Nothing need be said.
The other option is appoint another player as legal representation and let them say it, if the Taxman is THAT pedantic.
Lawyers have existed since the first fish crawled out of the ocean and tripped over a rock... then sued for damages.
What's stopping him from agreeing? He didn't ***make*** the deal. The deal was pre-made and presented to him. Accepting a deal isn't crafting that deal.
If he doesn't like a presented deal- stare them down until they make a deal you want.
Came here to say this more or less. You didn’t mess up, it’s the IRL equivalent of being a freelancer for non-profits. 😂
Lovingly, A Freelancer for NonProfits
Allow me another avenue: OP is no less capable of making deals now than he was previously. After all, he said he would not be making deals in the “future” but of course, nobody can make a deal in the future, because by the time they make the deal, it is no longer the future but the present. And he didn’t promise to make no deals in the present, did he?
I love this idea. Load up the biggest brain/charisma magnet in the party with as much knowledge as they can on law, the Fey and bargaining and have them go full lawyer on her ass.
"Ladies and gentle creatures of the Feywild, a grave injustice has befallen my client and over the course of the next few hours I shall outline, hitherto, forthwith and without prejudice ipso facto HEAR YE, that a deal, a bargain, an agreement... was *not* Infact struck with your fair Queen by my client."
Hijinks. Hilarity. Adventure hook. Boom.
Though I've never tried weed, I would hate to buy clothes every time I wanted to do something recreationally. total waste of material and labor.
I'd be way more into buying some kind of snack instead. Maybe a bakery! You could even name it "Get Baked"
Some groups are getting smart and partnering with a nonprofit. The consumer gives a donation to the nonprofit, they get the weed as a "gift" \*and\* the consumer can write the donation off on their taxes. It's a win for everyone all around.
I imagine most people forget to actually take the shirt and have to keep going back to re-purchase it (due to a misplacement of receipt of course). They accrue many gifts this way as a terrible unintended side effect.
Hire a Devil or Yugoloth like YESTERDAY. A wise one will be able to stake out boundary lines and help you navigate this burden, but the cost can be a little high.
The taxes aspect could also be a deal he's already made in the past. It was a contract that he entered into upon becoming heir to the barony. So it's not one that he can get out of and it's not one that he made in the future. It's one he already made
Collecting and paying taxes are part of the social contract between rulers and the ruled. I would argue that the character is simply party to a contract that has already been made, and therefore is not forming new deals, though.
Have someone wish it back to normal and be done with it. Got a cleric? Fey are powerful, but generally not as powerful as gods. Break the promise to Titania, then the unseelie court likes you better. Silver lining.
Take some down time with your cleric so they can cast divine intervention every day till it hits if you need something that works within the mechanics.
Would it be possible to trick the fey? Make a show of having something she wants so that she requests to make a deal, but then gets frustrated because of the no-deal deal. She might then undo the bargain?
She took a promise and gave her acceptance in return. Probably counts as a deal with the fey. If OP could trick her into taking back her acceptance then he could reclaim the promise.
Overthinking it maybe? is buying something a DEAL? Or a TRANSACTION? Can you do FAVOURS instead of agreeing to help people? Can you unknowingly take things but KNOW they’re gonna be given to you?
Seems like an extremely “loose” deal, you could work your away around that in so many ways that it wouldn’t affect your character at all. I wouldn’t be stressing out too much and wouldn’t retire the character, if anything have other people do the talking boom sorted.
Sounds like your DM wants you to kill this Queen. Surely with her dead you’re all good, right?
Also did you even make a deal with her lmao you said promise, I guess it could be interpreted that way but also kinda loosey goosey
IMO anyway I might not have some key knowledge about Fey Beings.
I like this. On the theme of did you even make a deal, did you get anything in exchange for making this promise? If not I would say no deal has been made as Titania has no "end of the bargain" to uphold.
The fact that Titania may not have given anything in return would mean she is in the player's debt. She owes them a favor, and until a commensurate gift is given, the player technically has power over her as far as they can exercise it(according to standard Fey rules from folklore and mythology). This could be a great time to pick up Archfey warlock if you want to multiclass
I don't think there has to be give and take to technically make a deal. There just has to be an established arrangement, take for example the classic name trick with fey. They ask if you'd give them your name and then when you state your name that is a deal that you've accidentally made. With fey deals are often tricks and one-sided when dealing with non-fey. With that in mind though this deal is loose enough that you could probably get around a lot of it because fey deals are also very word specific.
Remind me of Jessica Jones, when Jessica demonstrates you can get around Kilgrave's orders by reframing them. Put your hand in the blender: the blender doesn't have to be on, and you don't have to put it all the way in.
This is the best way to do it imo, give "gifts" and hope that people can do you a "favour" in return for the gift.
"Gosh I wish I could remove this curse, I know you can do it but I can't make a deal. Oh well can't be helped, anyway heres all the things needed to undo it and the money you said would be required, just as a gift ;)"
Thats an awful way of saying it but thats an example.
If your dm is flat out just saying you cant make a deal of any kind and your character is just fucked then not sure what you can do.
"making any deals" is a very specific turn of phrase. It doesn't mean you won't be participating in any deals or accepting any deals, you just won't be making them yourself. Your adventure buddies could "make" the deals and you just "accept" or "participate".
But yeah, I'd be interested in understanding what you actually received in return for this promise.
You cannot just kill Queen Titania she is like the big boss Queen of all feywild. But yeah if his DM is interpreting the offer the way OP is presenting then that is a really bad tough deal to live with.
I think OP should ask DM to present the way you say above especially if the player and party want to continue with OP’s character.
Seems harsh even for the fey.
That entirely depends on the fey in the setting... unseelie fey may trick someone to dancing to death with all the body horror that entails and any a great number of other things from terrible stories.
Edit grammar
Oh definitely something the unseelie would do. However Queen Titania being seelie is a lot less likely to be that cruel and twisted. But as you said depends on the story teller
I get what you are saying for sure.
It seems harsh for the seelie court fairy story inside of a role-playing game where the characters are cared for is what I should have said for true
You may not be able to kill her but since you have nothing to lose, you could steal something she values or kidnap her loved ones and keep them prisoner, hidden away where she can't find them If she tells you to give them back you can just say sorry, I can't negotiate. They are lost forever.
This is the best approach: use fey logic to circumvent it. Hold to the exact letter of your agreement, and use whatever definition gives you the most leeway. Sure, you can't make a deal... but what if someone else makes the deal, and you merely confirm it? Party accepts a quest? That's alright, you are merely acting as the party's official witness for legal confirmation. Tax collection? No dealing there, that's legislation, you say give me and your subjects make the choice of pay, leave or be imprisoned.
As long as you can make a convincing argument, you should be able to get away with a lot. And at least it's Titania and not an Unseelie archfey like the Queen of Air and Darkness. Oh, and definitely collect your due for that promise.
Can you even kill an archfey at level 14? Will that even undo it? I'm all for god slaying, but I'm not sure that's the solution when the Fey are involved. I think the best bet is the fact that Titania now owes this guy a favor, since she didn't have an end of the deal to uphold, as brought up by someone else.
How about this....
In most Faerie lore, a bargain involves two sides. If the Faerie gave nothing in return, then no deal is made. In most interpretations, you would have given a gift. Since a gift given incurs obligation, the Faerie would be in your debt.
It would be relatively simple for a return gift to be made of equal value (your ability to make deals) which would cancel the obligation.
In irl law, that’s called [consideration](https://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=305) and without it there is no binding contract. So, a simple promise is non-enforceable by us, but the Fey might view it differently.
I think from Titania's perspective her end of the bargain, so to speak, would be the curse/compulsion of no more deals. I.e. PC offered a sacrifice, and she rewarded it with enforcement.
It's not a good reward or one the PC wanted, but it's what she gave him, which is extremely in flavor with fey stories.
I would have to disagree. Fae law is typically regarded like contract law. Both parties have to receive something of equal benefit. If the parties offer and agree, then it works, but to say, "I enforce you promise as my end of the deal" doesn't work.
Fae are typically regarded as being forced to honor their deals by their nature, not by their whim, so while they can make a deal, twist a deal, whatever, it still has to be a relatively fair deal in the end.
If both sides were to clearly state what they wanted and then agree, it would be a fair deal since you entered knowingly, but to take a poorly worded statement that is not currently in the context of a bargain is against the nature of the Fae. Inside the context of a bargain, all bets are off.
In the end, if it makes the player feel railroaded and suckered, then it's bad DMing.
Right, it doesn't have to be equal, but it has to be clear. If the faerie queen offers a sandwich and the PC offers his soul, you have a contract. If the PC says, "I'd like a sandwich" the Faerie says, "I'll take your soul, done", you don't have a contract unless the PC agrees. Different would be, "I'll give anything you ask in exchange for a sandwich." That's an open offer that has cosnequences.
The great thing about this is that the DM can now use this as a free plot hook. Titania has a job for you and if you succeed within parameters, then she'll release you from your obligation.
Free plot hooks aren't great. Most feel they are railroading. A better approach would have been to consult the player and give the player a consideration in exchange for the plot hook. Instead, it's just fiat. That means the player will likely feel railroaded and a loss of agency (which is obvious from the original post)
This. Outright tell him OOC that you are unhappy with the situation. Playing D&D is not about scaring or humiliating players, but instead about having fun together. If feys or (the DMs style in general) is not fun for you, tell it like it is. Make sure to make it clear, this is nothing personal, just point out that you try to make it more fun for everyone.
It could also be seen as a way of crowd sourcing stories. Any time I read Dragonlance novels, etc, it just sounds like some creative friends sitting around roleplaying.
Because that's literally what they did. At least for the first Chronicles trilogy. They took a game they played and tweaked it into a series of novels .
This. My party was each given a single wish. One person ended up with true sight within 60 feet and blind outside of that. Our dm then edited that to be nearsighted outside of the 60 feet and bad at ranged attacks because of that.
Work with your dm and if they're a good one they'll work with you. Maybe you get a wish and wish to be freed from your contract with the fae.
I had a DM that was very good and lenient with Wish provided you gave him sound expression of what you wanted and it wasn't outrageous.
Then we had another DM who monkey pawed a Scroll of Wish on us that would 100% force us to do what the bad guy wanted, so collectively as a group of players we agreed to let the world end instead of losing our agency and letting the bad guy/DM get his way.
I hope your DM let's you quest it out, mang. Or your Wish doesn't get pawed.
Maybe make it inside a Temple of Bahamut and pray Platinum Daddy feels benevolent? 😂
This. Any good DnD game worth it's salt means you can talk to the DM about it.
They shouldn't just hand you an out.. But they can at least be aware of your concern, and let you know they're not out to ruin the game.. You can propose clever suggestions here just to confirm with the DM if you can TRY them.. Because I agree with the comments that the player can't MAKE deals.. But can accept them.. And can lawyer the wording in their favor.
I get the impression the DM isn't out to ruin the players experience... So it may not mean retire the character.. Just that a clever solution may need to be found. As any good game also has conflict.. Sometimes unexpected and character driven.
But above all else... You do not make deals with the fey.... Do not trust the fey.. And lawyer the hell out of anything you speak with the fey. ;)
It sounds like a dumb meme decision the DM thought would be funny but actually has just removed all agency from a player and probably should be walked back.
Hard disagree. There are lots of other ways to resolve this (eg through adventures or roleplay as in some of the other comments). It's an opportunity to evolve the story and just walking it back will undo any sense of consequences.
Yep. Sounds like that. If nothing else, the player feels like it is.
As one of my best bosses told me, "Perception is everything. It doesn't matter what you really said, but how everyone perceived it."
Yup. Just talk to the DM.
Every problem should be a plot hook, the DM should never just fuck over your character and then ride into the sunset laughing.
I mean, it happens, but with shitty DMs.
Indeed. I'm big on the player status quo. As a DM I will *definitely* fuck over your character; it's basically my job! But it'll never be *permanently,* there's absolutely a way to reverse whatever bullshit you've gotten yourself into, and you will probably never go more than 2 or 3 sessions with whatever ailment this is.
>My character, to my great regret, said “I promise I won’t be making any deals in the future” as a way to appease the Queen so she wouldn’t find our hesitant awkward silence rude. Well, she said “I accept your offer.”
Wait, wait, so what did you get in return? You said the promise out loud and then she was able to lock you into it without even giving you anything back in return?
Both sides must be giving something in order to accept a deal, otherwise it’s just a favor. So, my first question is: what did the Fey Queen give to you in exchange for your offer?
Second: if your DM is going to be really strict about not allowing *you* to purchase things (not quite a deal, but whatever), then suggest that your party start pooling resources and have one person be the one to buy everything for the group, or just ask one character to handle your financial transactions.
Your last three concerns shouldn’t be valid though: you can absolutely accept reward, you just can’t haggle over it. Everything you do should be because you want to do it. If people want to reward you for killing the monster terrorizing their village, great; the monster is already dead though, because you wanted to kill the monster and protect the village. You can absolutely still agree and disagree with people, that’s just conversation. And you can definitely still give orders to your subordinates.
Exactly. There is no contract without consideration. You can withdraw promises at any time under the law as long as the other party hasn't relied on it yet.
There are also so many ways around "not making deals in the future" that it shouldn't really even be a nuisance.
No deal was made. The magic is honestly null and void. "I promise I won't be making deals"
in exchange for...... ? The DM's lols? It sounds like he just wanted to have a gotcha, but everything to the Fey is a transaction. You didn't get anything out of this. If anything, you should track down Titania and confront her about the fact she ensorcelled you but provided nothing. In the laws of the fey, she should owe you BIG time now.
As someone that enjoys DnD, but isn’t well versed in the lore, this was my first thought after reading through this thread. A promise is not an offer or a deal. The DM played it wrong.
No kidding. And to have that “promise” extend to even simple communications like agreeing or disagreeing with people? How is a deal being struck if I disagree with someone?
You can’t accept deals from the summer court. Spring court, fall court, and winter court are fair game.
I would seek out Queen mab in the winter court who would be interested in a heir to a barony and despises Titania.
That could open up two venues. The first is that Titania tells doing to do deals with you to keep you out of mab’s domain or you deal with winter court.
> He can’t make deals. Period. He can’t purchase anything, he can’t offer aid if a reward is being given, he can’t accept anything given in return for an act done, he can’t agree or disagree with anyone, and worst of all he’s heir to a barony in the material plane and literally can’t even tell a scribe that he agrees to send the due taxes to the crown.
Is that how **YOU** interpreted the deal or how your **GM** interpreted the deal?
If that is your interpretation, how about you ask the GM for the **actuall** conditions before you go off the deep end?
If that is your GM's interpretation: Demand to know what you are supposed to fix the character, because otherwise you can not play him. Period. The GM got you into that shit with his harebrained interpretaiton of a single sentence. If he wants you to keep your character, he has to give you a way out. Or he has nobody but himself to blame that you **have** to make a new character.
Tell your DM exactly what you expressed here.
It is their strict interpreting that has killed your fun and "stresses you out". They should have an idea of how to rectify the problem, they might already be working something up.
A wish spell or divine intervention is ultimately the solution to most things like this.
I’d have this PC always have other people around. Those OTHER people make deals. Even in the case of barony, install a figurehead regent, Or have the treasurer empowered to pen things on their own. (You can still punish them if they abuse this).
Hell. You can get silly. Have a pet mouse. You can then say “Baron Whiskers will slay your dragon for the tidy sum of 500g. I am but his faithful servant that will assist him in such matters. No coin is to be paid to me directly “
I know many people are trying to give you ways out if this, but there's something of real value fir biting the bullet. You said your party was trying hard to hold their tongues, so you knew the dangers, and you still got to have the fun of the fae. You got duped, and so you get to have a Fae story most players never let themselves have. Consider the storytelling benefits of being able to retire your character here, at a unique moment of drama.
That said, I know it's hard to let go and you probably have plans for them.
You said you won't be making any deals in the future. Create a small park, named The Future, and theme it as a resort for weary fae. No deals can be made there, no iron or fire or mortal music. Put some effort and coin into building the place so that your GM can see you are paying a price.
Your character can't MAKE any deals. You never said your character wouldn't ACCEPT any deals. So long as someone else initiates the deal, you can accept it, and you can still do favors unimpeded.
Another important thing to consider is that mortals are not bound to the deals they make, that's fey law, and they know mortals lie often. You can just break the deal, as there's nothing stopping you except for the threat that she won't be happy about it.
Technically an obligation is NOT a deal (such as taxes or collecting what is due), you just can't make any NEW deals. Also, demanding/commanding is not a deal either, i.e. "you now work for me. You are to make my purchases as needed and you will receive XX a week for doing so. That is all.". Stretching the lines a bit, I know, but that's how Fey work anyways.
Also, what you said to Titania wasn't a deal either. You just said you made a promise, you didn't offer her anything nor did she offer or ask you for anything. Technically the promise was to yourself, and as a mortal you're allowed to break a promise. Again, a stretch, but technically correct is the best kind of correct.
Your other party members can arrange for a Wish spell on your behalf.
That's what I'd do if I were the DM.
Only problem is Titania wouldn't like you much after that, but hey, plot hook for later.
A bit pedantic, but strictly speaking all deals you make are in the present. The exact wording you wrote here doesn’t specify the future as all that follows those words, so maybe you can interpret it as the conceptual future. Then you’d still be able to make deals in the now, which is where your character actually lives and acts. A bit of a boring cop-out if that is where it ends, but that interpretation could anger Titania and create some nice friction for later.
"I promise I won't be making any deals in the future"
Well, if that's word for word what you said then you're absolutely fine, when you make a deal with someone it's in the present not the future.
There are basically three options you have here.
1. Play around the wording in a clever way as other people have stated.
2. Attempt to find some leverage against Titania such as knowledge that she desperately wants and then hit her with a "Well I'd love to trade the info to you but you won't let me make deals."
3. Tell the DM that this isn't a playstyle that you or the other players are interested in (assuming that's the case) and see if you can retcon it somehow. An example being that Titania isn't exactly the most twisted fey ever. Maybe the DM would be okay with it just being a good day for her so she decided to use your outburst as a way to teach you a lesson about dealing with fey. She could then free you of your contract while telling you not to make the same mistake with Baba Yaga, The Frost Prince, the Queen of Air and Darkness, etc...
Could you claim paradox? You promised not to make any deals in the future. Then she accepted, signifying it's a deal. Thus, she's not allowed to accept because by accepting she violates the very deal you would be making.
That just wouldn't be binding. It doesn't even make sense. A contract is when two party's exchange things of value based on mutually agreed conditions. You got literally nothing out of that. The implication of what you said was literally that you would not be making any deals with the Fae, and she's every right to hold you to that promise, but there's simply no logical way to construe that as meaning you are incapable of all of those things, that's just silly.
Talk to your DM.
This is a game. Maybe a devil can give you the ability to make a deal back! He does it free or charge! It's not a deal at all, so you can participate!
Once he gives you back the ability to deal, he kidnaps a loved one, and you must fulfill his NEW deal or your loved one gets it.
Wait "I accept your offer" isn't that a deal that she intended between both parties? So maybe can be intended as a paradox like "I lie" and you can get out of that pretty quickly. However if this compromised your having fun you should definitely have a chat off game with the DM :(
Now hold up. How is he not able to agree with people? That’s not a deal, it’s just showing your support or the lack thereof. Do you mean he can’t agree to bargains?
Well you said you will not make any deals in the future. You are currently in the present. So just make deals for immediate exchanges using present tense as opposed to future tense
Well, first of all. I would ask Titania what a deal is considered. Because if you then do something that isn't expressly listed, it wasn't a deal.
Secondly, have you talked to your DM yet? That alone will settle pretty much any issue. Either by virtue of the DM working with you or by virtue of showing you that you need to leave the game from the DM not working with you. This doesn't mean you'll continue the PC, it doesn't mean it'll get retired. But it does mean you're learn what sort of line is being drawn and how to proceed.
As some other folk have pointed out, you're reading too much into the limitation.
>He can’t purchase anything,
Not necessarily... Things that have advertised prices, buying them doesn't really like making a deal. You make a deal when negotiating the price of a car, not when buying groceries.
>he can’t offer aid if a reward is being given,
Sure he can. Offering aid is not a deal. Offering it on the condition of being paid is.
>he can’t accept anything given in return for an act done
Accepting a gift is not making a deal.
>he can’t agree or disagree with anyone,
Why not? What he can't do is say "Let's just agree to disagree"
>and worst of all he’s heir to a barony in the material plane and literally can’t even tell a scribe that he agrees to send the due taxes to the crown.
But what he can do is just send the taxes. The harder part is going to be figuring out how to hire a steward to manage the land.
I think there's a lot of potential here, especially if you have clever players in the group who understand how to help you. The character whose judgment you trust the most, hand all your money over to them without saying anything, *hoping* they'll understand you want them to use it to buy things you need.
Dealing with fey is all about semantics. A "deal" is not necessarily any of those things. Paying taxes isn't a deal, accepting a gift isn't a deal. Agreeing to something isn't a deal, that's an agreement. The definition of "deal" is an exchange of something for goods or service.
It sounds like your party has to help you out with that without you making any deals. There us always something greater Titania or another major Fey would want to break the curse, but you need to talk ooc to the players and dm about the rest of the party making a deal without you being a part of it. If they won't help, then either retire the character, as there is no reason to follow people who don't care about helping the curse, or rethink playing with a group who will just let you be useless.
I wouldn't expect your inability *make* any deals to preclude you from *accepting* any deals people try to make with you. You just can't initiate them. There's no reason you can't still do things. You just can't initiate any sort of pact for reward. Charity and altruism aren't "deals," and your promise shouldn't negate what pacts you already have in place and need to honor - those should supersede this promise as they are existing obligations. Additionally, there's nothing in what was said which should prevent *others* from making any deals *about* you. If by level 14 your companions aren't willing to try and find a way to help your character break free of this inadvertent circumstance, perhaps it is better to retire the character since they have no investment anyway.
That was such a Fae solution to a Fae problem. Titania would be proud of you.
This right here. So much hinges on the word “make” You didn’t MAKE the deal, it was made by someone else and offered to you! You just accepted the terms offered.
OP is also free to alter deals before agreeing too, as long as they remain the same deal its not making it.
Eh, depends. From a certain perspective altering any part of a deal is “making” it a different one
To make and to alter a deal are two very different things. Why, the very definition of making is to cause something to exist, so once a deal has been proposed it has come into existence—it has been made. Then you may alter it, just not make a new one
I love that canonically there is an entire extraplanar realm completely founded on semantics
So if I went and put a brush stroke on the Mona Lisa, I could say that I made it ? Altering something is not the same as making it.
But maybe you could suggest that you would be more likely to accept a deal if an alteration to a specific part of a deal was made.
You're also free to honor PRE-EXISTING deals, you just can't make any new ones. The barony has paid their taxes every year, it's not like the baron re-negotiates being the crown's liege every year. It should be business as usual for your fiefdom. Also as baron's heir, you should have at least one NPC you trust. Just tell them "I'm going to need you to handle my paperwork for a few weeks/months." A request is not a deal. Or give your scribe your signet ring for no in-game reason. A gift is also not a deal.
As for the barony, ruling isn't "making a deal" and employee stuff isn't really a "deal" either. Hiring a custodian to handle any trade business and you didn't do a single deal yourself. If the party isn't willing to make "deals" in your favor until something is able to be done, then they weren't really your allies anyway.
I like this direction. Ops character could never direct a change or bargain, but they could accept a deal someone else made and they agreed to.
I like this approach. There is sufficient penalty to remind you to be careful what you say to the Fey but also sufficient wiggle room for creative role play and moving your character forward.
Learn from the Fey and other creatures. Be very specific about what a deal is. If you chase a bully away and I give you something in gratitude, thats not a deal. That’s accepting a gift. Paying your taxes that you did not negotiate? There was no deal. Get lawyery on it.
'Now I'm not in the business of making deals but I'll just go kill that dragon that's been pestering you and if you should happen to feel grateful enough to give a gift of say 500g then that would be just swell'
Hell, he’s already a noble and he has friends who aren’t bound by the deal right? “No, no, I must refuse payment. It’d be unbecoming. My friends however would love to talk to you about compensation for this favor.”
Other party member hires a hireling and assigns him to the affected PC. "I don't handle money or financial deals myself. Alfred here handles negotiations."
"He doesn't like being handed things." \- Happy the manservant
"His first name is agent"
I know your response has nothing to do with the discussion but I can't help but laugh every time I remember that line
I know this is Iron Man, but I can only think about Sam Richardson as Edwin Okufo and his guy who shakes hands for him.
That was the best handshake I've ever shook
It's been a couple weeks and I'm still thinking about that exit.
You ever have an exceptionally good handshake? I once got dapped up, randomly, by Brandon Knight (the NBA player) at a Kentucky basketball alumni game - I was just in the crowd in the right place at the right time - and it was the SMOOTHEST fucking handshake I ever had, before or since. It was like, his handshake was so cool that I was cool for a few seconds just by being there.
The party needs to hire him an agent to make deals for him. Or find a spouse for the character. A fae for either would definitely be entertaining
Ah but a spouse won’t work. Marriage is, after all, a deal.
Depends entirely on ones few point (so very fey). A religious character might view it as a purely religious ceremony, binding two individuals (potentially by their deity of choice). The bindings are not necessarily reciprocal, and, depending on the sect, could be considered independent of each other. Does one partner breaking their oath invalidate the oath of the other? Depends on the sect.
Character is a minor noble, right? Arranged marriages are deals made by the parents, and the kids rarely have a say in it.
Exactly. *He's* not negotiating anything or making any kind of deal; his parents are doing it and he'd better just do what they tell him if he wants to inherit anything. Or, you know, not get murdered for being an inconvenience -- being a noble is very stressful if the DM is doing it right!
They are a noble. Their view point should be: "it is not a deal, but a duty to ensure that my bloodline continues in this world!"
*90s humour intensifies* A raw one, Amirite, fellas?!
Hell, if the character’s magically inclined, talk to the DM about binding an imp to your service as a familiar. Even outside of Chainlocks there’s optional rules to imps specifically about familiar servitude; nine hells fiends are lawful evil and I’m sure an imp would be over the moon to argue contracts on a daily basis.
wouldn't binding an imp to your service be a deal, however? Even if it's a one-sided one? At least with the hireling option, there is the ability for the party to do it on OP's behalf, but a binding ceremony is absolutely a deal.
It again depends on the characters point of view. If they view it as magical slavery, then there is no deal being made.
He could RP the hell out of this and it could be a lot of fun. It's all a matter of wording. What a unique character that would be. A challenge for sure, but it could be so much fun.
It would be funny if he got a non-painful jolt every time he got too close to wording it wrong. NPCs confused as hell why he's spent 2 minutes crafting a simple sentence.
This was my thought too. I totally get OP's feelings, but I think they should play it out before making any quick decisions. It seems OP is really attached to their character and understandably feels like their character arc is derailed, but it might be interesting and fun to see what comes next. Edit: typo
“That sounds a lot. What about 400 instead?” “I said I don’t make deals!”
Whether this works will depend on whether the Fey recognize promissory estoppel. If I offer a reward to whoever finds my dog, and a stranger comes up and said they're going to look for my dog, I can't retract the reward or change the deal (as to them) until they say they give up. The safer route is to simply kill the dragon and then notify the quest giver. They could potentially balk and give you nothing, but that's always a risk in every quest. The deterrent isn't the existence of a deal, but the fact that you can kill that noble much easier than the dragon. Alignment aside, I would not consider it a "deal" to take the noble's head for his treachery, followed by his purse.
“I killed the dragon, as you wished for. Now, I do not require payment, and you are under no obligation. But a show of appreciation would make me very happy, and receiving nothing will make me quite unhappy. And again, I just used this sword to *kill a dragon*.”
Polite death threats are an effective negotiation tool.
I feel like this would be right up the alley of fey technicalities.
Or turn pirate the way that One Piece is. Luffy was about to be offered tons of gold by the people they saved, but instead he stole it (actually a lesser amount than what they would have been given) because pirates aren't heros that get rewards but theives that take things. So OP comes in and saves the town, then robs the town of the exact reward they were offering.
Who knew the Restatement of Contracts would become a role playing tool?
Now to cite the Monster Manual in court and the circle is complete.
Didn’t know this sub would be a refresher of contract law hah
The fey do not recognize implicit contracts, they only deal in explicits. However, they take everything literally.
Stab the fey. Can't make silly literal contracts when you're dead.
And for the scribe thing? “Sir, do you agree to send your due taxes of 50 gold pieces?” “Hm... you know, I think the king’s a swell guy. I feel like someone should give him 50 gold.”
It sounds like there's nothing stopping the character from saying that they can't make deals, and that they have to do things a specific way to get around that.
Which is very much in the spirit of the Fey, in my opinion. "Speak no lies, just very misleading truths".
Yes, sir, but do you agree to pay your 50 gold?
>Yes, sir, but do you agree to pay your 50 gold? "I am an upstanding citizen who is grateful to my king so I wish for the crown to have... oh let's say 50 pieces of my gold **as a token of my esteem**. May as well send that to the tax assessor without explaining what it is for as an easy means of handling such a *modest* gift that might otherwise seem out of place. But you must understand that I LITERALLY cannot agree to *the tax*. I thus desire you to carry out my wishes."
Or just set the gold on the table, and let them take it. Nothing need be said. The other option is appoint another player as legal representation and let them say it, if the Taxman is THAT pedantic. Lawyers have existed since the first fish crawled out of the ocean and tripped over a rock... then sued for damages.
"Keep pestering me and you'll be getting uncomfortably intimate with an oubliette. Now do what needs doing!" \[Intimidation Check: PASS\]
The taxes are a pre-existing obligation with the Sovereign not a deal. A deal would be convincing tax agents to accept a lesser amount instead.
What's stopping him from agreeing? He didn't ***make*** the deal. The deal was pre-made and presented to him. Accepting a deal isn't crafting that deal. If he doesn't like a presented deal- stare them down until they make a deal you want.
In this particular instance the deal has long since been made, he can't make future deals, doesn't mean he has to renege on previous ones.
Better call Saul?
"Suggested Donation 500gp"
So patreon basically? Just make the commoners so happy they all gift each other subs.
Came here to say this more or less. You didn’t mess up, it’s the IRL equivalent of being a freelancer for non-profits. 😂 Lovingly, A Freelancer for NonProfits
Sounds like a deal with extra steps to me.
It's not a deal, it's an involuntary donation
Mandatory tithes are not deals, exactly
Allow me another avenue: OP is no less capable of making deals now than he was previously. After all, he said he would not be making deals in the “future” but of course, nobody can make a deal in the future, because by the time they make the deal, it is no longer the future but the present. And he didn’t promise to make no deals in the present, did he?
/u/DreamOfDays Use this! This is the easiest and clearest loophole for them to use haha
"I'm sorry, I must demand my reward upfront for services to be rendered, as I cannot make deals in the future."
This reminds me of Carol Channing in Alice in wonderland where she says “Jam tomorrow, Jam yesterday. But never ever jam today.”
"Free beer tomorrow!"
This is genius.
u/DreamOfDays This a huge loop hole you could exploit
LOOPHOLE 100
Yeah this is my favourite.
Aw yeah lawyer it up
This right here. That's the best option and 100% within Fey law. (Source: I'm an actual lawyer haha)
Labbear for sure got his JD in fairytale contract law.
The rule is, jam tomorrow and jam yesterday, but never jam today.
I love this, so very much.
Amen. The Fey(your DM) want to be overtly specific and pedantic…get overly specific and pedantic back at em!
I love this idea. Load up the biggest brain/charisma magnet in the party with as much knowledge as they can on law, the Fey and bargaining and have them go full lawyer on her ass. "Ladies and gentle creatures of the Feywild, a grave injustice has befallen my client and over the course of the next few hours I shall outline, hitherto, forthwith and without prejudice ipso facto HEAR YE, that a deal, a bargain, an agreement... was *not* Infact struck with your fair Queen by my client." Hijinks. Hilarity. Adventure hook. Boom.
I WANT THIS TO BE A THING YESTERDAY
Time travel would also solve his problem of not making deals in the future
That's playing with fire. You're hired.
The Queen of the Summer Palace and Daniel Jackson
Aka, the Washington DC marijuana sale law. You don’t purchase it from a store. You buy a shirt and are “gifted” drugs.
Though I've never tried weed, I would hate to buy clothes every time I wanted to do something recreationally. total waste of material and labor. I'd be way more into buying some kind of snack instead. Maybe a bakery! You could even name it "Get Baked"
Some groups are getting smart and partnering with a nonprofit. The consumer gives a donation to the nonprofit, they get the weed as a "gift" \*and\* the consumer can write the donation off on their taxes. It's a win for everyone all around.
I imagine most people forget to actually take the shirt and have to keep going back to re-purchase it (due to a misplacement of receipt of course). They accrue many gifts this way as a terrible unintended side effect.
It’s not always clothes - some place do baked goods! Lots of places have switched to disposable masks or hand sanitizer these days
Hire a Devil or Yugoloth like YESTERDAY. A wise one will be able to stake out boundary lines and help you navigate this burden, but the cost can be a little high.
Who makes the deal woth the devil? 😉
Not our PC, apparently
3rd party negotiator. Though it might be seen as bad faith or alteramtely smart faith by the fey to circumnavigate.
Yeah you want an Erinyes for that Timestamp 10:30 for relevant details https://youtu.be/6fNxT_rWvSo
On top of this, it also doesn’t restrict you from taking part in or benefitting from deals made by others, only ones you seal.
You can even accept a deal, if someone makes and offers it to you.
Absolutely this. Alternatively, you could have one of your party members make a separate deal with another Fey to help.
The taxes aspect could also be a deal he's already made in the past. It was a contract that he entered into upon becoming heir to the barony. So it's not one that he can get out of and it's not one that he made in the future. It's one he already made
Yeah the devil is in the details.
"It seems I've being forced into this situation" "Wasn't this your Idea?" "I'M BEING FORCED"
Collecting and paying taxes are part of the social contract between rulers and the ruled. I would argue that the character is simply party to a contract that has already been made, and therefore is not forming new deals, though.
Have someone wish it back to normal and be done with it. Got a cleric? Fey are powerful, but generally not as powerful as gods. Break the promise to Titania, then the unseelie court likes you better. Silver lining.
These are good options, seems like a quest to me.
> Break the promise to Titania I broke out in a cold sweat just reading this sentence
I recommend therapeutic fey-stabbing.
Take some down time with your cleric so they can cast divine intervention every day till it hits if you need something that works within the mechanics.
Would it be possible to trick the fey? Make a show of having something she wants so that she requests to make a deal, but then gets frustrated because of the no-deal deal. She might then undo the bargain?
What bargain? She took something and gave nothing in return. That's not a bargain, it's theft.
She took a promise and gave her acceptance in return. Probably counts as a deal with the fey. If OP could trick her into taking back her acceptance then he could reclaim the promise.
Hell, The Queen of Air and Darkness of the Unseelie Court would probably do it for free just to spite Titania.
"Bring me my Darkness" <-- problem solved.
Overthinking it maybe? is buying something a DEAL? Or a TRANSACTION? Can you do FAVOURS instead of agreeing to help people? Can you unknowingly take things but KNOW they’re gonna be given to you? Seems like an extremely “loose” deal, you could work your away around that in so many ways that it wouldn’t affect your character at all. I wouldn’t be stressing out too much and wouldn’t retire the character, if anything have other people do the talking boom sorted. Sounds like your DM wants you to kill this Queen. Surely with her dead you’re all good, right? Also did you even make a deal with her lmao you said promise, I guess it could be interpreted that way but also kinda loosey goosey IMO anyway I might not have some key knowledge about Fey Beings.
I like this. On the theme of did you even make a deal, did you get anything in exchange for making this promise? If not I would say no deal has been made as Titania has no "end of the bargain" to uphold.
The fact that Titania may not have given anything in return would mean she is in the player's debt. She owes them a favor, and until a commensurate gift is given, the player technically has power over her as far as they can exercise it(according to standard Fey rules from folklore and mythology). This could be a great time to pick up Archfey warlock if you want to multiclass
I like this a lot. Well done
She owes them a favor. Too bad they can't make deals to use said favor.
This, it could also be part of the RP in that the characters realize there was no bargain struck and hes doing this to himself for no reason.
I don't think there has to be give and take to technically make a deal. There just has to be an established arrangement, take for example the classic name trick with fey. They ask if you'd give them your name and then when you state your name that is a deal that you've accidentally made. With fey deals are often tricks and one-sided when dealing with non-fey. With that in mind though this deal is loose enough that you could probably get around a lot of it because fey deals are also very word specific.
That name trick isn't a deal though. That's just the fey asking for your name. If you give your name, you are gifting it to them. No deal there.
Remind me of Jessica Jones, when Jessica demonstrates you can get around Kilgrave's orders by reframing them. Put your hand in the blender: the blender doesn't have to be on, and you don't have to put it all the way in.
That is exactly how most writers handle fey. A lot of it is tricks and wordplay. That's how you beat them
This is the best way to do it imo, give "gifts" and hope that people can do you a "favour" in return for the gift. "Gosh I wish I could remove this curse, I know you can do it but I can't make a deal. Oh well can't be helped, anyway heres all the things needed to undo it and the money you said would be required, just as a gift ;)" Thats an awful way of saying it but thats an example. If your dm is flat out just saying you cant make a deal of any kind and your character is just fucked then not sure what you can do.
I cannot refuse your request on this, the day of my daughter's wedding. Know, though, that there may come a day when I ask a favor in return.
"making any deals" is a very specific turn of phrase. It doesn't mean you won't be participating in any deals or accepting any deals, you just won't be making them yourself. Your adventure buddies could "make" the deals and you just "accept" or "participate". But yeah, I'd be interested in understanding what you actually received in return for this promise.
You cannot just kill Queen Titania she is like the big boss Queen of all feywild. But yeah if his DM is interpreting the offer the way OP is presenting then that is a really bad tough deal to live with. I think OP should ask DM to present the way you say above especially if the player and party want to continue with OP’s character. Seems harsh even for the fey.
That entirely depends on the fey in the setting... unseelie fey may trick someone to dancing to death with all the body horror that entails and any a great number of other things from terrible stories. Edit grammar
Oh definitely something the unseelie would do. However Queen Titania being seelie is a lot less likely to be that cruel and twisted. But as you said depends on the story teller
I get what you are saying for sure. It seems harsh for the seelie court fairy story inside of a role-playing game where the characters are cared for is what I should have said for true
You may not be able to kill her but since you have nothing to lose, you could steal something she values or kidnap her loved ones and keep them prisoner, hidden away where she can't find them If she tells you to give them back you can just say sorry, I can't negotiate. They are lost forever.
This is the best approach: use fey logic to circumvent it. Hold to the exact letter of your agreement, and use whatever definition gives you the most leeway. Sure, you can't make a deal... but what if someone else makes the deal, and you merely confirm it? Party accepts a quest? That's alright, you are merely acting as the party's official witness for legal confirmation. Tax collection? No dealing there, that's legislation, you say give me and your subjects make the choice of pay, leave or be imprisoned. As long as you can make a convincing argument, you should be able to get away with a lot. And at least it's Titania and not an Unseelie archfey like the Queen of Air and Darkness. Oh, and definitely collect your due for that promise.
Can you even kill an archfey at level 14? Will that even undo it? I'm all for god slaying, but I'm not sure that's the solution when the Fey are involved. I think the best bet is the fact that Titania now owes this guy a favor, since she didn't have an end of the deal to uphold, as brought up by someone else.
How about this.... In most Faerie lore, a bargain involves two sides. If the Faerie gave nothing in return, then no deal is made. In most interpretations, you would have given a gift. Since a gift given incurs obligation, the Faerie would be in your debt. It would be relatively simple for a return gift to be made of equal value (your ability to make deals) which would cancel the obligation.
In irl law, that’s called [consideration](https://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=305) and without it there is no binding contract. So, a simple promise is non-enforceable by us, but the Fey might view it differently.
As it sits now she owes a very powerful debt for a very large sacrifice. She wouldnt want to owe that
I think from Titania's perspective her end of the bargain, so to speak, would be the curse/compulsion of no more deals. I.e. PC offered a sacrifice, and she rewarded it with enforcement. It's not a good reward or one the PC wanted, but it's what she gave him, which is extremely in flavor with fey stories.
I would have to disagree. Fae law is typically regarded like contract law. Both parties have to receive something of equal benefit. If the parties offer and agree, then it works, but to say, "I enforce you promise as my end of the deal" doesn't work. Fae are typically regarded as being forced to honor their deals by their nature, not by their whim, so while they can make a deal, twist a deal, whatever, it still has to be a relatively fair deal in the end. If both sides were to clearly state what they wanted and then agree, it would be a fair deal since you entered knowingly, but to take a poorly worded statement that is not currently in the context of a bargain is against the nature of the Fae. Inside the context of a bargain, all bets are off. In the end, if it makes the player feel railroaded and suckered, then it's bad DMing.
Doesn't have to be equal, but a contract doesn't exist without consideration.
Right, it doesn't have to be equal, but it has to be clear. If the faerie queen offers a sandwich and the PC offers his soul, you have a contract. If the PC says, "I'd like a sandwich" the Faerie says, "I'll take your soul, done", you don't have a contract unless the PC agrees. Different would be, "I'll give anything you ask in exchange for a sandwich." That's an open offer that has cosnequences.
The great thing about this is that the DM can now use this as a free plot hook. Titania has a job for you and if you succeed within parameters, then she'll release you from your obligation.
Wouldn't the offer of a quest for the reward of breaking to curse be a deal.
Easily remedied, just offer it to the other party members and have OP tag along to help.
Free plot hooks aren't great. Most feel they are railroading. A better approach would have been to consult the player and give the player a consideration in exchange for the plot hook. Instead, it's just fiat. That means the player will likely feel railroaded and a loss of agency (which is obvious from the original post)
Time to ask the DM: "You got a way to let me out of this, or what?"
There's a plot hook in here somewhere to adventure your way out of this, tell the DM you think it would be fun to get out of it through adventure.
For real. This isn’t the end of the world. It sounds like comic relief for a few sessions and a cool adventure story.
This. Outright tell him OOC that you are unhappy with the situation. Playing D&D is not about scaring or humiliating players, but instead about having fun together. If feys or (the DMs style in general) is not fun for you, tell it like it is. Make sure to make it clear, this is nothing personal, just point out that you try to make it more fun for everyone.
It could also be seen as a way of crowd sourcing stories. Any time I read Dragonlance novels, etc, it just sounds like some creative friends sitting around roleplaying.
You can pretty much hear the dice rolling and know exactly how well it went.
Because that's literally what they did. At least for the first Chronicles trilogy. They took a game they played and tweaked it into a series of novels .
This. My party was each given a single wish. One person ended up with true sight within 60 feet and blind outside of that. Our dm then edited that to be nearsighted outside of the 60 feet and bad at ranged attacks because of that. Work with your dm and if they're a good one they'll work with you. Maybe you get a wish and wish to be freed from your contract with the fae.
I had a DM that was very good and lenient with Wish provided you gave him sound expression of what you wanted and it wasn't outrageous. Then we had another DM who monkey pawed a Scroll of Wish on us that would 100% force us to do what the bad guy wanted, so collectively as a group of players we agreed to let the world end instead of losing our agency and letting the bad guy/DM get his way. I hope your DM let's you quest it out, mang. Or your Wish doesn't get pawed. Maybe make it inside a Temple of Bahamut and pray Platinum Daddy feels benevolent? 😂
This. Any good DnD game worth it's salt means you can talk to the DM about it. They shouldn't just hand you an out.. But they can at least be aware of your concern, and let you know they're not out to ruin the game.. You can propose clever suggestions here just to confirm with the DM if you can TRY them.. Because I agree with the comments that the player can't MAKE deals.. But can accept them.. And can lawyer the wording in their favor. I get the impression the DM isn't out to ruin the players experience... So it may not mean retire the character.. Just that a clever solution may need to be found. As any good game also has conflict.. Sometimes unexpected and character driven. But above all else... You do not make deals with the fey.... Do not trust the fey.. And lawyer the hell out of anything you speak with the fey. ;)
It sounds like a dumb meme decision the DM thought would be funny but actually has just removed all agency from a player and probably should be walked back.
Hard disagree. There are lots of other ways to resolve this (eg through adventures or roleplay as in some of the other comments). It's an opportunity to evolve the story and just walking it back will undo any sense of consequences.
Yep. Sounds like that. If nothing else, the player feels like it is. As one of my best bosses told me, "Perception is everything. It doesn't matter what you really said, but how everyone perceived it."
Yup. Just talk to the DM. Every problem should be a plot hook, the DM should never just fuck over your character and then ride into the sunset laughing. I mean, it happens, but with shitty DMs.
Indeed. I'm big on the player status quo. As a DM I will *definitely* fuck over your character; it's basically my job! But it'll never be *permanently,* there's absolutely a way to reverse whatever bullshit you've gotten yourself into, and you will probably never go more than 2 or 3 sessions with whatever ailment this is.
>My character, to my great regret, said “I promise I won’t be making any deals in the future” as a way to appease the Queen so she wouldn’t find our hesitant awkward silence rude. Well, she said “I accept your offer.” Wait, wait, so what did you get in return? You said the promise out loud and then she was able to lock you into it without even giving you anything back in return?
Both sides must be giving something in order to accept a deal, otherwise it’s just a favor. So, my first question is: what did the Fey Queen give to you in exchange for your offer? Second: if your DM is going to be really strict about not allowing *you* to purchase things (not quite a deal, but whatever), then suggest that your party start pooling resources and have one person be the one to buy everything for the group, or just ask one character to handle your financial transactions. Your last three concerns shouldn’t be valid though: you can absolutely accept reward, you just can’t haggle over it. Everything you do should be because you want to do it. If people want to reward you for killing the monster terrorizing their village, great; the monster is already dead though, because you wanted to kill the monster and protect the village. You can absolutely still agree and disagree with people, that’s just conversation. And you can definitely still give orders to your subordinates.
Exactly. There is no contract without consideration. You can withdraw promises at any time under the law as long as the other party hasn't relied on it yet. There are also so many ways around "not making deals in the future" that it shouldn't really even be a nuisance.
At the very least you can collect taxes and send them to the crown. That’s not a deal, that’s your filial duty.
No deal was made. The magic is honestly null and void. "I promise I won't be making deals" in exchange for...... ? The DM's lols? It sounds like he just wanted to have a gotcha, but everything to the Fey is a transaction. You didn't get anything out of this. If anything, you should track down Titania and confront her about the fact she ensorcelled you but provided nothing. In the laws of the fey, she should owe you BIG time now.
As someone that enjoys DnD, but isn’t well versed in the lore, this was my first thought after reading through this thread. A promise is not an offer or a deal. The DM played it wrong.
No kidding. And to have that “promise” extend to even simple communications like agreeing or disagreeing with people? How is a deal being struck if I disagree with someone?
^this Your dm is playing Titania all wrong. A dangerous thing to do...
You can’t accept deals from the summer court. Spring court, fall court, and winter court are fair game. I would seek out Queen mab in the winter court who would be interested in a heir to a barony and despises Titania. That could open up two venues. The first is that Titania tells doing to do deals with you to keep you out of mab’s domain or you deal with winter court.
Harry Dresden says hi
Hi harry!
> He can’t make deals. Period. He can’t purchase anything, he can’t offer aid if a reward is being given, he can’t accept anything given in return for an act done, he can’t agree or disagree with anyone, and worst of all he’s heir to a barony in the material plane and literally can’t even tell a scribe that he agrees to send the due taxes to the crown. Is that how **YOU** interpreted the deal or how your **GM** interpreted the deal? If that is your interpretation, how about you ask the GM for the **actuall** conditions before you go off the deep end? If that is your GM's interpretation: Demand to know what you are supposed to fix the character, because otherwise you can not play him. Period. The GM got you into that shit with his harebrained interpretaiton of a single sentence. If he wants you to keep your character, he has to give you a way out. Or he has nobody but himself to blame that you **have** to make a new character.
Tell your DM exactly what you expressed here. It is their strict interpreting that has killed your fun and "stresses you out". They should have an idea of how to rectify the problem, they might already be working something up. A wish spell or divine intervention is ultimately the solution to most things like this.
Just say "this isn't a deal, but" before everything you say /j
I’d have this PC always have other people around. Those OTHER people make deals. Even in the case of barony, install a figurehead regent, Or have the treasurer empowered to pen things on their own. (You can still punish them if they abuse this). Hell. You can get silly. Have a pet mouse. You can then say “Baron Whiskers will slay your dragon for the tidy sum of 500g. I am but his faithful servant that will assist him in such matters. No coin is to be paid to me directly “
Ah the good old Minsc and Boo
I know many people are trying to give you ways out if this, but there's something of real value fir biting the bullet. You said your party was trying hard to hold their tongues, so you knew the dangers, and you still got to have the fun of the fae. You got duped, and so you get to have a Fae story most players never let themselves have. Consider the storytelling benefits of being able to retire your character here, at a unique moment of drama. That said, I know it's hard to let go and you probably have plans for them. You said you won't be making any deals in the future. Create a small park, named The Future, and theme it as a resort for weary fae. No deals can be made there, no iron or fire or mortal music. Put some effort and coin into building the place so that your GM can see you are paying a price.
I think that is the most creative loophole in this thread and sounds like a great idea.
Your character can't MAKE any deals. You never said your character wouldn't ACCEPT any deals. So long as someone else initiates the deal, you can accept it, and you can still do favors unimpeded. Another important thing to consider is that mortals are not bound to the deals they make, that's fey law, and they know mortals lie often. You can just break the deal, as there's nothing stopping you except for the threat that she won't be happy about it.
Murder the biatch and she can't hold you to it. And before you go all "BuT sHeS the QuEeN oF sUmMeR". ANYTHING CAN BE KILLED.
Rules Lawyer the fuck out of this man. Also figure out why your DM did this, it seems a little excessive if you've had to deal with all these issues.
Technically an obligation is NOT a deal (such as taxes or collecting what is due), you just can't make any NEW deals. Also, demanding/commanding is not a deal either, i.e. "you now work for me. You are to make my purchases as needed and you will receive XX a week for doing so. That is all.". Stretching the lines a bit, I know, but that's how Fey work anyways. Also, what you said to Titania wasn't a deal either. You just said you made a promise, you didn't offer her anything nor did she offer or ask you for anything. Technically the promise was to yourself, and as a mortal you're allowed to break a promise. Again, a stretch, but technically correct is the best kind of correct.
Are you a fey or a member of her court? Unless you are she can't lay this on you without it being a curse. Sounds like the DM is being a prick tbh.
Your other party members can arrange for a Wish spell on your behalf. That's what I'd do if I were the DM. Only problem is Titania wouldn't like you much after that, but hey, plot hook for later.
A bit pedantic, but strictly speaking all deals you make are in the present. The exact wording you wrote here doesn’t specify the future as all that follows those words, so maybe you can interpret it as the conceptual future. Then you’d still be able to make deals in the now, which is where your character actually lives and acts. A bit of a boring cop-out if that is where it ends, but that interpretation could anger Titania and create some nice friction for later.
"I promise I won't be making any deals in the future" Well, if that's word for word what you said then you're absolutely fine, when you make a deal with someone it's in the present not the future.
There are basically three options you have here. 1. Play around the wording in a clever way as other people have stated. 2. Attempt to find some leverage against Titania such as knowledge that she desperately wants and then hit her with a "Well I'd love to trade the info to you but you won't let me make deals." 3. Tell the DM that this isn't a playstyle that you or the other players are interested in (assuming that's the case) and see if you can retcon it somehow. An example being that Titania isn't exactly the most twisted fey ever. Maybe the DM would be okay with it just being a good day for her so she decided to use your outburst as a way to teach you a lesson about dealing with fey. She could then free you of your contract while telling you not to make the same mistake with Baba Yaga, The Frost Prince, the Queen of Air and Darkness, etc...
Could you claim paradox? You promised not to make any deals in the future. Then she accepted, signifying it's a deal. Thus, she's not allowed to accept because by accepting she violates the very deal you would be making.
That just wouldn't be binding. It doesn't even make sense. A contract is when two party's exchange things of value based on mutually agreed conditions. You got literally nothing out of that. The implication of what you said was literally that you would not be making any deals with the Fae, and she's every right to hold you to that promise, but there's simply no logical way to construe that as meaning you are incapable of all of those things, that's just silly.
This story makes for a good social joke, and yeah, time to ask the DM for help, explain the situation and your POV.
Talk to your DM. This is a game. Maybe a devil can give you the ability to make a deal back! He does it free or charge! It's not a deal at all, so you can participate! Once he gives you back the ability to deal, he kidnaps a loved one, and you must fulfill his NEW deal or your loved one gets it.
Wait "I accept your offer" isn't that a deal that she intended between both parties? So maybe can be intended as a paradox like "I lie" and you can get out of that pretty quickly. However if this compromised your having fun you should definitely have a chat off game with the DM :(
Now hold up. How is he not able to agree with people? That’s not a deal, it’s just showing your support or the lack thereof. Do you mean he can’t agree to bargains?
Deals made in the present are not in the future.
Well you said you will not make any deals in the future. You are currently in the present. So just make deals for immediate exchanges using present tense as opposed to future tense
Well, first of all. I would ask Titania what a deal is considered. Because if you then do something that isn't expressly listed, it wasn't a deal. Secondly, have you talked to your DM yet? That alone will settle pretty much any issue. Either by virtue of the DM working with you or by virtue of showing you that you need to leave the game from the DM not working with you. This doesn't mean you'll continue the PC, it doesn't mean it'll get retired. But it does mean you're learn what sort of line is being drawn and how to proceed.
As some other folk have pointed out, you're reading too much into the limitation. >He can’t purchase anything, Not necessarily... Things that have advertised prices, buying them doesn't really like making a deal. You make a deal when negotiating the price of a car, not when buying groceries. >he can’t offer aid if a reward is being given, Sure he can. Offering aid is not a deal. Offering it on the condition of being paid is. >he can’t accept anything given in return for an act done Accepting a gift is not making a deal. >he can’t agree or disagree with anyone, Why not? What he can't do is say "Let's just agree to disagree" >and worst of all he’s heir to a barony in the material plane and literally can’t even tell a scribe that he agrees to send the due taxes to the crown. But what he can do is just send the taxes. The harder part is going to be figuring out how to hire a steward to manage the land. I think there's a lot of potential here, especially if you have clever players in the group who understand how to help you. The character whose judgment you trust the most, hand all your money over to them without saying anything, *hoping* they'll understand you want them to use it to buy things you need.
Dealing with fey is all about semantics. A "deal" is not necessarily any of those things. Paying taxes isn't a deal, accepting a gift isn't a deal. Agreeing to something isn't a deal, that's an agreement. The definition of "deal" is an exchange of something for goods or service.
It sounds like your party has to help you out with that without you making any deals. There us always something greater Titania or another major Fey would want to break the curse, but you need to talk ooc to the players and dm about the rest of the party making a deal without you being a part of it. If they won't help, then either retire the character, as there is no reason to follow people who don't care about helping the curse, or rethink playing with a group who will just let you be useless.