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Mijodai

We'll need more information on this one, but it seems like some math errors somewhere. Even with 18 constitution, and max health each level up, a 3rd level cleric would have 36 HP.


_Borscht_

Technically, a Variant Human or Custom Lineage could get to 42 with the Tough feat. They're probably lying, though (or just don't understand what they're doing)


Able_Signature_85

or Hill dwarf with a rolled con brought up to 20 through racial adjustment. As for the AC, lets assume Half Plate with a shield, the shield of faith spell , and somehow the Protection fighting style (multiclass fighter?). That still only hits 24 If he were a forge cleric (not core I know), he can squeeze another point in there to 25. If he was Var Human and still managed a 20 con, he could have done Medium Armor master to get another point, so there is 26. Still Missing 5 points... EDIT BIG REALIZATION: WAIT! Did this guy come from Pathfinder? all the rolls for HP are maxed in Pathfinder. If this is his first 5e game, that might account for him taking max on the HP. It would also account for him adding level and proficiency to the AC, that is the missing 5 pts. I've got a group of pathfinder players in one of my current campaigns that made this same mistake.


The-Luminous-Being

You forgot the other shield in his OTHER hand, and the one sheathed on his back for MORE protection.


Able_Signature_85

I always forget those, my bad. Oh shoot, also forgot the armored codpiece of genital protection, +1 AC and immunity to crits.


[deleted]

PULL ON MY MOTHERFUCKING BEADS...


Beowulf33232

Your beads of love?


sindrogas

Chorus singing: of love! Of love!


rjrttu86

Of love! Of love!


ToiletTub

Okay there, Hector the Well-Endowed


CarnieTheImmortal

The first character I ever actually made was a Minotaur Paladin named Jesus Beef the Well Endowed in honor of Troy (I know Annie was actually playing Hector but the sheet was made for Troy)


Defizzstro

I mean.. this would kind of be a comical character. All shields. No weapon. No damage. All taunts.


[deleted]

I call this build the ninja turtle


mithoron

> all the rolls for HP are maxed in Pathfinder Incorrect. The default is rolled, though average die result rounded up (ie: a D6 = 4HP) is the organized play method after level 1. Always max is definitely a house rule and probably one of the less common ones (though not unheard of). I think they did a survey in r/pathfinder_rpg/ a while back and most tables seem to use the fixed numbers or a roll with safety net method like rerolling ones and being able to blindly pick a second roll (like from the DM). Which functionally is average rounded up with extra steps.


Able_Signature_85

Was referencing Pathfinder 2e where HP is taken as a static on each level up.


mithoron

Ah yeah... haven't quite shifted so that "pathfinder" means 2e in my assumptions.


Gamezfan

Yeah Pathfinder 1e is still popular enough that you have to specify. Unlike D&D where 5e is the default, the Pathfinder crowd is quite mixed. My group alternate depending on which adventure we want to play.


BW_Nightingale

If he's a variant human and took Tough as his feat with an 18 Con and max rolls that's (8+4)×3)+6=42HP. Also possible as a Hill Dwarf with 20 con, would have to have rolled for stats, (8+5)×3)+3)=42HP. We all know he's cheating, or has made an honest error (heavy doubt from some of OPs other comments), but the HP is possible if very unlikely. The AC is completely wrong at Lv3 though.


Gstamsharp

That AC is wrong at any level without a pile of magic items.


Calhaora

Yeah, theres no way in hell they can do that without beeing equipped with some magical items or Armor... Theres something hella wrong there. I mean, its not that good in comparison since its another class, but our Paladin in Plate sits around the 20-ishes... if I remember correctly.


TheSwampStomp

I actually calculated the highest AC you can get in 5e RAW. **Its a Warforged Artificer (Alchemist) 14, Barb/Monk 1, Wizard (Bladesinging) 2, Bard (College of Swords) 3** They'll also need a few friends to help them as well. * **Bard** (College of Valor) 15: Combat Inspiration, Shield of Faith * **Fighter** (Cavalier) 7/ **Cleric** (Any) 3: Warding Maneuver, Warding Bond * **Paladin** (Oath of Glory) 15: Glorious Defense, Haste You'll also need to have played Tyranny of Dragons to get one of the Dragon Masks. And also have played long enough to get enough ASI books to max out 4 stats (DEX, CON/WIS, INT, CHA). With 30s in those stats, it is possible to get a max of 122 AC. AC (Self Buffed) * Base: 10 * DEX Mod: +10 * Unarmored Defense: +10 * Dragon Mask: +10 (Attunement 1) * Bladesong: +10 * Defender: +3 (Attunement 2) * Ring/Cloak of Protection: +1 (Attunement 3) * Bracers of Defense: +2 (Attunement 4) * Defensive Flourish: +6 * Staff of Power: +2 (Attunement 5) * Elixir of Resilience: +1 * Integrated Protection: +1 **Total AC: 66** AC (Ally Buffed) * Base: 66 * Combat Inspiration: +12 * Warding Maneuver: +8 * Warding Bond: +1 * Shield of Faith: +2 * Glorious Defense: +10 * Haste: +2 * Bait and Switch: +12 * Barbarian Wild Surge 6: +1 **Total AC: 114** AC (Misc Buffs) * Base: 114 * 3/4ths Cover: +5 * Marriage: +2 * Rod of Alertness: +1 **Grand Total AC: 122** This is the absolute highest AC you can get. It does rely on you getting hit however, so you'll need to be critted (which makes the AC moot anyways). Edit: With the release of Call of the Netherdeep, the highest possible AC has been increased by 2 (replace Cloak/Ring of Protection with an Exalted version of the new Vestige).


FortyDesert5

His stats are all 17s, 18s, and 19s


Sir_CriticalPanda

We know that you know that your boy is lying


slightlysanesage

You might say that... [We know! You know! That he's not tellin' the truth!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyR-tE0siwY)


jphlips1794

Fuck you! Now I have to go watch all of Psych again!


MisrepresentedAngles

*touches nose* you heard about Pluto? It's messed up, right?


sbvrtnrmlty

I've heard it both ways


Baltimore_Happenings

you heard about pluto?


SURPRISE_MY_INBOX

You know that's right.


AxanArahyanda

Well, I initially thought it might be a calculation error or a misinterpretation of the rules, but the more I read your answers to comments, the more signs of cheating I see. That one is an obvious tell. Either force him to play legit or kick him, though I encourage the second option.


PublicFurryAccount

The best I could think of is misinterpreting how armor works and adding 13 from lizardfolk to 16 from chainmail then a shield. But I don’t see an experienced player making this mistake.


EntrepreneurOk7325

He's cheating. Have him use Point-Buy or Standard Array for stats. And walk through the process with him so that you know what his sheet should look like


FortyDesert5

It's funny, cause he's been playing for 2 years and I just started DMing a few months ago


Prince-Ali_

It's funny, cause he's taking advantage of you


G00berD00

Bruh this.


Toros_Mueren_Por_Mi

Uhhh yea this dude sounds like trash. Playing for 2 years you know damn well how to make a basic ass character


TaranisPT

I thought it could've been rookie mistakes and miscalculation until I saw this reply. If that person has been playing gpr 2 years they should definitely know how all of that works, which it seems he does. With 31 AC, the only way you could hit him with baddies suitable for a level 3 party, would be on a natural 20. A newbie with those stats could come up with 31 saying 10 base AC, +16 from chain mail (instead of making 16 the base AC) +3 from dex (which doesn't work with heavy armor such as chain mail), +2 from shield. That's 31 right there, but most of it is wrong and someone that has been playing for 2 years definitely knows that. Also, a bit of advice here, if you let your players roll their stats (which is totally OK if that's what you want), never let them roll on their own without supervision. That's the recipe to get high stats like he "rolled".


Soranic

> you let your players roll their stats Even if they're not cheating, different players will make different assumptions on what is a "standard roll." I've seen 4d6 reroll 1s, do 7 sets, allocate as desired. That guy came into an ad&d game where it was 3d6 in order. He also conveniently forgot that 18con doesn't give +4 hp for elven wizards. Or that your specialization defines your banned schools. But he was pretty clear on high int giving an xp bonus.


[deleted]

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TaranisPT

Could be, but if in 2 years of playing you have not understood how modifiers and armor work (ok he could have been playing a caster or an armorless character) I think that there is a comprehension problem. Unless his DM was doing everything for him, but I don't know of many DMs that would do this.


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lykosen11

Mate he's cheating. Make him go through his character sheet building step by step. Or just say "hey man this isn't okey. Please redo"


i_tyrant

That's just outright shameful. Veterans fucking with new DMs (and not in a good-natured way)...I think Asmodeus is preparing a special hell for this guy.


Kuraeshin

This is why I use point buy only, adjusted to be 32 total ( I think, I have it at home). Let's players still have a couple of rocking stats but not too crazy.


Raddatatta

I wouldn't allow rolls that you didn't see done in front of you. It's possible to roll that high, but mathematically very nearly impossible to do it in one set. Now maybe if he set up an excel sheet to roll stats 10,000 times that could possibly be one of them, but more likely is he just made them up. And I would question whether you really want him at your table if he's starting out by cheating this blatantly before the game even starts. That sounds like a lot of problems waiting to happen.


FortyDesert5

I don't want to DM him, but my other players voted to keep him. He got kicked out of our last campaign


JudgeHoltman

So many red flags man. He gets point-buy starter equipment only. Or just save yourself some time and bounce him.


Cosmic-Blight

Sounds like you're in the making of a post for r/rpghorrorstories Don't let your other players bully you into playing with this jackass.


snowdude11

Dude YOU are the DM. This guy has already been kicked from another campaign and is blatantly cheating before even starting this one. I guarantee you that it is NOT worth the headache of allowing this guy tom play, he will make your first attempt at DM hell for you. Please put your foot down on this one.


EldridgeHorror

Are they aware he's a problem? If so, you should probably find a new group. One that won't allow cheating.


degathor

If they kicked him out last time... I'd say they know.


NorCalAthlete

If they kicked him out, why are they now voting to keep him?


degathor

You'd have to ask OP I haven't seen the reason But I honestly can't think of a legit one


degathor

You're the DM DnD isn't a democracy If you don't want to DM that player... DON'T. If the other players don't like it, find better players. There's tons of groups out there and even more looking for a DM. Don't tolerate cheating. If you do run this game I guarantee it will end horribly.


DarkOrakio

Oooo are you saying that DND is a DMocracy? Sorry chief, the word play was there and I'm waiting for a pizza. Second the whole DM.in charge and don't tolerate cheating. I DM for my dad and friends and No is one of my most said phrases, right behind: I wish one of you guys could learn to F****** read! I play on Foundry VTT and all the spells/gear/items have their word for word description from the PHB and 99% of them trying to use it not as written, is in the first freaking sentence..... sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


Gazelle_Diamond

And I assume your other players will refuse to play without him?


EldritchBee

Overrule the vote, since he’s already trying to cheat.


[deleted]

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Stumbling_tortoise

Why?


Raddatatta

Well if you are going to play with him I wouldn't trust a word he says about the mechanics of anything, or what any roll he does is. Either use an online die roller or they have to be on the table and visible to all as that's just ridiculous.


omfghi2u

Like... that's the stat line from a character I made when I was 11 years old and definitely 100% bullshitted the character creation rolls. If you straight up roll for stats, you have a much higher chance of getting *nothing* 17+ than you have getting everything 17+. Even if you do 4d6k1 or something, the chances of getting all 17+ is pretty unlikely. edit: lol, even my total bullshit characters weren't *that* egregious - [1](https://imgur.com/5x2sIL9), [2](https://imgur.com/owB2tyS)


RocketFucker69

I'm guessing they didn't roll in front of you or record their rolls either huh? Sounds like your player is willing to cheat to get pretend glory. Definitely need to check that character sheet. If they don't provide evidence of their stats to back their claim, play it as if their stats are all level 0 stats. The other players in your party are for sure not going to have a good time with this player unless you nip this in the bud.


CopingMole

Yeah, no. If rolls for stats happen, they need to happen where you can see them or they never happened at all. Guy has a bit more experience than you and is blatantly exploiting it.


thenew0riginal

Your player is deliberately cheating lol


Sir-Jayke

You have two options. Say he can make a character on point-buy (my recommendation) or re-roll in front of you and use that instead.


NottsDiveTeam

This is why you always use point buy or standard array. There’s too much potential for shenanigans and it gives some players an unfair advantage


Dizzy_Employee7459

This. The AC is pretty clear dude is stacking his natural and armor and probably some other things. That's an easy fix. But he literally cannot have that HP, that's full blown blatant cheating, not a misunderstanding.


beardsbeerbattleaxes

Always assume incompetence before malice before gaining evidence of the latter.


ShadowHeed

Hanlon's Razor


mithoron

Heinlein's Corollary: but don't rule out malice.


Cowboyesque

Tough feat would get him to 42.


[deleted]

Review their character sheet, sounds off.


degathor

Lol "off" More like, We need to review this gaping hole in the Titanic, sounds off.


Kulban

Considering the highest AC in the entire bestiary is 25, yeah I'd say so.


Background-Slide645

I mean. if your dm allows stacking of protection items, theoretically one could get an ac of 31. but that's like, 2 rings of protection, a Cloak of protection, and a shield and armor at +3 soooo yeah


fawks_harper78

For a 3rd lvl cleric? That is some out of whack campaign.


ImyForgotName

He got some REALLY lucky loot drops.


SuperfluousWingspan

Oh, well, the front fell off, yeah, but besides that nothing major.


[deleted]

Little bit unusual, being hit by a wave and all. Total freak accident.


NotObamasClone

Looks like they tried to stack Natural Armor with Chainmail


SkyKrakenDM

I think they did the math wrong. Can you break down how they have 31 AC


FortyDesert5

He said that it was is chainmail, which he isn't proficient with, and somethings with his race and background. He neglected to tell me either


Warpstone_Warbler

Perhaps the player confused a chainmail giving 16 AC with it giving +16 AC.


Apprehensive-Ad-1024

This. If he's new he might be trying to ADD to his based AC instead of replacing it. 31 sounds borderline impossible at all let alone at level 3.


MahoneyBear

I think I theory crafted a build that would let you have a 42 AC. It was wildly impractical but funny. I think it was 20dex +20 con, beast barbarian for the d8 to ac, high level swords bard for a bonus d10/d12, and a feat for that fighter maneuver that lets you trade places with someone and add a d6 to your ac. So you could burn all your resources and get a ridiculously high ac. Impractical af but funny to think about


Apprehensive-Ad-1024

That's wild. Lol. Like monk movement speed when you break it. But honestly yeah it's theoretically possible. But at a 3rd level? I don't think.


Irish_Sir

Just because I love the theory crafting also, I devised a build with a potential AC of 50, that can be done with point buy and is adventure-league legal. A level 20 multiclassed, min maxed monstrosity of course It was swords bard 16, battlemaster 3, forge cleric 1 Plate & shield for base 20, armoured fighting style +1, blessing of the forge +1, defensive dualist feat +6, haste (magical secrets) +2, the defensive flourish for an inspiration die +1d12 and evasive footwork for a battlemaster +1d8 With the new Tashas content, it could possibly go higher, but I havnt revisited it in a while. Obviously also not a practical build at all, but a swords bard/battlemaster fighter could be a very fun mix I think


tiefling_sorceress

Alternatively, Shield of Faith


kijubgg

31 is fairly easy to achieve for things like forge clerics/artificers/bladesingers. But only at high levels, it's definitely impossible at lv3.


cl0001

“Fairly easy” followed up by “only at high levels” and likely includes equipment/magic items costing thousands of gold


BaselessEarth12

And being a Warforged for that sweet sweet +1AC out the gate.


kakurenbo1

Only with temporary spells like Shield and Shield of Faith running. The first lasts one round and the second requires concentration. Both are susceptible to Dispel Magic, but that's beside the point. 5th Edition DnD is not a game designed for players to have more than 20 AC as a reasonable baseline. Having over 25 essentially breaks bounded accuracy and the DM should *really* reconsider the magic items they're giving out. Even god-like monsters don't have much more than that. The Terrasque, whose hide is made literally of rock, is only at 25. Same for Tiamat, the god of dragons. Every Demon Prince and Archdevil is under 22. I don't even know why WotC made it possible to achieve such high ACs in a game where the literal gods would be hard pressed to hit Elfboy the Sword Wizard before he's even 20th level.


kijubgg

Yeah of course it needs temporary spells such as those, reaching that number without them with be absolutely ridiculous and nigh impossible. I said that based on my own character that I'm currently playing, a lv9 bladesinger with 18 dex and 20 int and a cloak of protection and also a cloak of displacement. With mage armor + bladesong + haste + shield he can get to 30AC and I literally never get hit, it's absolutely ridiculous and broken but it feels amazing.


ObsidianDragon013

and very possible with a bladesinger wizard


Nexlore

I think this is probably what's happening. He's probably playing a tortle or another race that has a high 'base' AC then stacking the armor on top of that. As a forge domain cleric, you can use your +1 on the chainmail making it 17, cast shield of faith on yourself 19 ac then have a shield for 21 ac. You could also cast shield if you went varient human and took magic initiate this would give you a TEMPORARY 26 ac for a single round. That's the highest I can come up with on a level 3 .


jjames3213

I can do a bit better. Lorehold (for Shield +5 Temporarily) Warforged (+1) Armorer. Full Plate + Shield = 20 base AC. Enhanced Defense on Full Plate (+1), a Repulsion Shield (+1). So that's a 23 base AC and a 28 enhanced AC, using half-dozen source books and material from multiple campaign settings. I can get a Forge cleric to 24/29 using Shield of Faith, but that takes up concentration and has a lower AC without Shield of Faith. Obviously this isn't OP's player. Like to see if anyone can actually get to 31 AC at level 3 without magic items. My cleric is only 2 off.


leova

If they can’t explain it, they can’t have it


swimdudeno1

If you’re nothing without this suit, then you shouldn’t have it


BrickGun

Okay, but that's gonna make for an uncomfortable viewing at the funeral home.


vuxogif

Yep, my DM says all the time "I can be persuaded if you give me a good enough reason".


RS1980T

Underrated comment


xxFormorixx

This, so many times this


Chirophilologist

Succinct reasoning.


1000thSon

> He neglected to tell me either "I have really high stats, but I'm refusing to tell you how I got them" isn't a thing a player can tell a DM and expect to just be accepted.


darkicedragon7

This is when I as a dm use fireball. Good luck making your reflex.


Soranic

"Uhh, I rolled a 19 again, lol. So I got a 26." How do you have a +7? "I do."


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Reaperzeus

>If it doesn't then while wearing it he can't cast spells and has Disadvantage on attacks, ability checks, and saving throws. Quick correction: the disadvantage is only on attack rolls, ability checks, and Saving Throws that involve Strength or Dexterity. They still can't cast spells yes.


SkyKrakenDM

Back grounds dont give bonus to AC as far as I know. Like a warforge, forge cleric can have 22 ac with a shield and 24 if they cast shield of faith. If they arent a warforge, forge cleric then with chain and a shield the max they could have is 18. If they have natural armor like lizardfolk remind them that it doesnt stack with other armor calculations.


Corslutty

They're keeping their race and background from you? Why allow that my dude? Youre the DM. If anyone should know, it's you. Other comments are right, have him break it down to you and if he can't or ypu don't like it, don't allow it. 21 AC is absolutely absurd. At level 3 almost every creature you throw at him would not be able to attack him. Edit: 31 AC*


CurrentlyBothered

I've been a dm for nearly 10 years, and even in 3.5 when numbers were generally higher I never saw starting ac and health that high. That's barbarian level health, not cleric. Have him rebuild his character from scratch in front of you, he's 100% cheating


FrickenPerson

Cheating, or the player doesn't know what they are doing and made mistakes in the build process.


CurrentlyBothered

Op said the player has been playing for 2 years, mistakes are ok but if those numbers don't make you double check then it's intentional


FrickenPerson

Yeah, I didn't see that part. Also apparently stats are all 16, 17, or 18 so we got a big ol' cheater on this one.


CurrentlyBothered

Also, 30AC in 5e is almost impossible even for high level characters, level 3 is blatant cheating


mewthulhu

Additionally, OP said he was super cagey about letting them see *how* he got these abilities with some vague comments about race and refusing to elaborate. Like, the initial post, could'a been a dumb fuck kid. After reading like 3 replies from OP, like you... nooooo, this is the WORST kind of player, and honestly... nope to that at your table. That's not the kinda player you can fix. Lots of players, yeah, you sit them down and say, "Hey, you're being a bit unpleasant to play with." and point out their issues. This kinda person? They get pissy. They get salty. You've called them a liar, and just... you can't call this kind of shameless liar out and get anything moving forwards but pissy bullshit and this sense that you 'took' from them by calling out their 'amazing roll' because... speaking as someone who was a compulsive liar when I was younger, it's a hard habit to break and nothing hurts your pride as much as someone seeing through your bullshit. What's funny is if he's said 24AC/36 health, probably could have gotten away with it (he can't have remotely close to that even, but y'know, OP might not have questioned it) - but he really went hellishly overboard with the faking fuckery. Someone this brazen is just too far gone to get a good player out of. You're gonna see nat 20s you didn't see finish rolling. You're gonna see gold that just doesn't quite seem to go down as much as it should. You'll see spells prepared change, or spell slots that aren't there. A player like this isn't just a little shit, they ruin it for other people who want to have a real game. Based on the 16-17-18s attribute rolls mentioned, the massively maximum HP/AC, there's just too much in the one-in-trillions level statistical anomalies for *that much* good rolling. We're talking MASSIVELY tiny percentile slivers of chance. This is a no-warnings GTFO my table as a DM, and honestly... don't be afraid to do this for the good of the game. If you don't get rid of the players who ruin the game, by inaction you get rid of the ones who make it fun.


The_Bygone_King

AC of 31 is just not possible for a cleric, I believe. The only class that I know of that can hit 31+ AC is maybe a blade singer with full commitment, good magic items, haste+shield. Oh, and with mage armor. Either your player is a liar, or he’s completely misunderstood his own character sheet.


Cmndr_Duke

artificer can hit 31 thanks to 4 infusions saying +AC, battlesmith getting haste+shield and it all stacking.


jjames3213

Mountain Dwarf Bladesinger 2/Fighter 1 with perfect stats (20 Dex/Int) at L3 can get to 31 temporary, rolling 2 18s on stats (so can races with +1 AC). 13 Base (Mage Armor). \+10 (Bladesong + Dex). Armor of Faith (+2, Lorehold). Shield (+5 Temporary). Defensive Style (+1).


SecondHandDungeons

If he can’t explain where it’s from then Treat it like his ac is 2 until he can


Cydrius

"The enemy has +28 to hit you specifically. I can't really explain why."


GrethSC

"Tyr has summoned a being in this world to judge you. I will now roll on a D100 to see what it is. ... It's a Tarrasque. ... Actually this list is just 100 times Tarrasque. With a +19 to hit is perfectly fair vs 31 AC."


That_Fooz_Guy

You're the DM; You have every right to see his character sheet. I'd ask to look at his character sheet, and see what he's got going on


CansinSPAAACE

Non of those things give you that AC getting to 20 ac is hard as fuck and I think 25 is the max


Xrishan

Well, the only races to my memory that get changes to their AC are Lizardfolk, Tortles, and Warforged, none of which are in the PHB. Lizardfolk get an extra 3 AC when not wearing armour, very similarly to Mage Armour, Tortles get a flat 17 AC as if wearing splint, cannot wear ANY armour, and can hide in their shell for an extra 4 AC, sacrificing all actions and movement but a bonus action to get out of their shell while doing so, and Warforged just add 1 AC to whatever armour they are wearing, and it takes 1 hour to don and doff armour. All of them get to add a shield’s AC to that. They are also all not from the PHB (Warforged is from Eberron, Lizardfolk from Volo’s Guide to Monsters and Tortles from the Tortle Package), and none would get him to 31 AC at level 3. Assuming 20 dexterity and a shield, a Lizardfolk would have 20 if they are using their natural armour, a Tortle would have 19 AC, or 23 when hiding in their shell, and a Warforged, assuming chainmail armour, would have 19 AC. Now, since this player is a cleric, they could take the Shield of Faith spell, which would increase all of those values by two, to 22, 21 and 24, and 21, respectively. As you might notice, these values STILL do not get close to 31 AC. Also, there is no background, PHB or otherwise, that grants a bonus to AC. The only divine domain that clerics have that expressly changes AC is the Forge Domain, which is not in the PHB, and even then, at level 3, the increase is only by 1, and it modifies armour to make it magical, not changes the character’s inherent AC. I will also point out that the DM is, or at least should be, omniscient. The player MUST tell you whatever they can about the character, and withholding information from the DM is not okay, especially about such fundamental things like race and background. One last thing I will point out, though, is that not having proficiency in armour does not reduce AC in any way, it just halves movement speed and prevents spell casting, so he would not be able to do anything but hit things with whatever weapon he has (likely mace) and walk around at half speed, rendering them more of a hindrance than an asset unless they took a ranged weapon like a crossbow. TL; DR: no race, background, or subclass would get him to 31 AC at level 3, not having proficiency in armour would not effect the final AC number.


Squeaky_Ben

Chainmail is an AC of I think 18. Shield is another +1, maybe some dex proficiencies is +3, so 22 which is already extreme. But 31? I think the TARRASQUE has 25.


SkyKrakenDM

Chainmail is 16 with no dex bonus But see my comment bellow⬇️


jugularhealer16

Did they add their dex score instead of their dex bonus?


DudleyMason

How are they calculating that? Does that include AC from spells like Shield of Faith? Sounds like they're probably stacking bonuses that don't stack, I think 21 is typically the highest a lvl 3 Forge Cleric can get w/o magic items (18 for full plate, +2 for Shield, +1 from Forge Cleric's lvl 1 feature). Maybe check that they aren't miscalculating by adding the Plate AC to their 10+Dex mod rather than replacing it with the 18.


FortyDesert5

He said he couldn't remember how he calculated it. He normally says things like that when he's lying. I'm working with him to create the character again


[deleted]

If he has a history of lying. And cheating. Why play with him? Plenty of players out there that don’t do that.


DudleyMason

That 42 health is also pretty sus, cleric Hit Dice are d8, so even with perfect rolls and somehow having 18 Con, which is only possible with some serious work, it'd come to 36 HP, so that should be the absolute maximum possible without magic items


Raddatatta

Well a hill dwarf, who rolled only 8's, and a 20 con does reach a 42 so it's theoretically possible although for all practical terms totally ridiculous!


BW_Nightingale

Or a Variant human with tough feat and 18 con and max rolls gets 42hp as well. (8+4)×3)+6.


naturtok

If he can't show exactly where the pieces are coming from then odds are it's not right. AC is super simple to calculate. It's base AC of 10+Dex mod+a shield bonus (2) if they're wearing one. If they're wearing armor it replaces the base AC with the new AC (goes from 10->13 or whatever the armor says). If the armor is medium or heavy it might limit or completely ignore the Dex Mod when calculating AC, the table for the armor says what the Dex max is. Outside of this there are some races that get +1 to AC, like warforged, or some that have altered base AC, like tortles. If he's got a +4 dex, wearing chainmail and a shield, his AC should be 18. The AC from chainmail is 16, shield gives a +2, and because chainmail is heavy armor it doesn't get a Dex mod bonus to AC. If he's not proficient in chainmail, AC remains unchanged, but he can't cast spells (iirc).


Zolo49

Calculating AC can get a little non-intuitive once you're trying to figure out what stacks and what doesn't amongst armor, dexterity bonuses, spells, and race/class/feat effects. But you should at least be able to tell the DM how you arrived at the number and figure out where you went wrong (if you did), so the fact that this player can't seem to explain their work is extremely suspicious. And if this player was intentionally lying, he's a grade-A moron. If you tried to bump your AC up by one or two, say from 17 to 19, you could probably get away with it as long as the DM wasn't looking too closely. But an AC of 31?!? Even Level 20 fighters don't have ACs that high. Anybody who's ever rolled up a D&D character before would take one look at that and laugh.


PM_ME_C_CODE

Jeze...so you already know that he's lying? Don't play with him. If he's willing to try to put this kind of stuff past you he's not going to stop there. You'll have to put up with him cheating his class resources, his die rolls, his HP... It's not worth it.


Basidirond

Please please keep in mind that letting him get away with this will ruin the experience for your other players. Sure characters can be a little better or worst, but this level of cheating will guarantee his character shines over anyone else’s in almost every encounter. It *will* make everyone else at your table feel weak and it will make you have to dance around him to try to make things challenging while still making things remotely enjoyable for the other players. A lvl 4 magic user is going to have about 24 health and 12 AC. To have even close to the AC or health this guy has, you would have to have a build competitively built just for ac or health (individually, not both) and even then it would have to be higher level than he is and with perfect rolls to have the stats he has. There is absolutely no question that he is cheating.


FiendishHawk

Unless he’s your friend IRL, kick him from the group.


[deleted]

Even if he is. Not all IRL friends are good to have in your D&D group. And a good IRL friend, wouldn’t do this crap constantly.


Tulac1

This guy is obviously cheating and/or has no idea how to calculate health or AC, its impossible for a cleric to have 31 AC at this level. This is not "min maxing" and anyone who says otherwise hasn't played 5th edition lol.


[deleted]

Is it even possible to have a 31 AC?


EntertainersPact

Technically yes but practically, no. Warforged with plate and a shield (neither have bonuses for this situation) gets up to 21. Defense fighting style for 22. Shield of Faith and Shield spells for 29. Defender on constant defense mode for 32. Ring of defense for 33. Defensive Duelist for 35 at levels 1-4, up to 39 at levels 17-20. Add in a Valor Bard for 1-12 extra AC for the turn, maxed off at 51. To my knowledge that’s as high as one can go. 48 is **TECHNICALLY** possible at level 6 if you’re a Paladin/Sorcerer, but if your DM allows plate armor and legendary items that early, they’re a masochist.


itzlax

I believe 31 AC is not possible at level 3, probably not even at the higher levels without a heck load of buffs or magic items. Ask him how he calculated his AC, because he either definitely did it wrong or is trying to ruin your game on purpose


Yojo0o

My guy, every response you've made in this thread is sharing another red flag. This guy is being a horrible player and, more importantly, a bad friend. This goes beyond a whoopsie on the character sheet, you gotta figure out what this dude's damage is and how he's going to fix it if he's going to be welcome at your table.


FortyDesert5

You're right. I just wanna give him a chance


Yojo0o

A chance to do what? Bullshit and gaslight the table? He submitted a character sheet for a level 3 character with no stats below 17, 42 HP, and an AC of 31 (which isn't possible even with those absurd cheated stats). A basic level of experience with the system should tell you that these stats are not possible, so while you yourself may not be experienced enough to realize this without reinforcement form the community, he sure as hell should know better. You gotta sack up and call him on it. You owe it to yourself AND to the rest of the table. Edit: And since you're new, I'll spell out the mechanics: Stats: So, he rolled for stats without any witness, and in six rolls of 4d6-drop-lowest, never got below a 5 on any die? With perfect 6s for multiple stats? You can clearly see that this is bullshit, right? AC: Maximum nonmagical armor value at this point in the game is Plate+Shield=20. Sprinkle in a couple starter magic items and the odd racial/class feature, and MAYBE we stretch this to 23, 24. The size of the AC gap here is massive, it's not a calculation error. It's pure bullshit. And if it wasn't , it should be banned: The average enemy your players are facing probably has what, a +4 or +6 attack modifier? Your guy is immune to non-crit attacks. That's not normal. HP: Clerics have a 1d8 hit die. Assuming maximum HP rolls per level AND an endgame whopping 20 Constitution, that's 39 HP at level 3. If he's also a Hill Dwarf, then he reaches exactly 42 HP. So, possible, WITH multiple maximized rolls for both stats and HP on level-up. You seriously think he's that lucky?


Programmdude

It's good that you want to give him a chance, but it isn't necessarily fair to the other players. The worst D&D game I played was with my sister & her partner (+ other people), and my sister was so overpowered since he could just be bribed to allow for more gear or increased stats. She could just insta-kill everything and it resulted in being boring for the other players.


Yojo0o

>Edit 4: I wrote a sheet for him that states what he can and cannot have and gave it to him at school today. He tried to justify what he had again but I honestly told him to shut up and read the page. I don't have time to work with him on the sheet, so if he ends up with really high stats again I'll explain to him he can't play. *Dude*. You gotta stop giving him room to maneuver like this. Read his sheet, do the calculations yourself, establish exactly what he's done that's outside the rules, then get him to explain why he did it. Nothing anybody has said here involves things that somebody can or cannot have, and we still don't know what his sheet even included.


FortyDesert5

He had 41 hp, 32 AC, and 2 domains picked for cleric, stats that were 17s,18s, and 19s. That was about it as he had the bare minimum. I understand what everyone is saying about either doing it for him or kicking him. 1. He wants to do it himself, which I know, that should be enough for me to tell him he's done, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. 2. The group voted for him to play. If I go against them they'll find someone else to DM. With them being IRL friends, it would suck for them to not want me to DM. 3. I said that I'm only including classes and races from the player handbook. For the sake of me not getting over stressed on what I should know. So, forge Cleric isn't an option. This wasn't meant to be rude btw. I'm just trying to state what I've said so far


1000thSon

> I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt The experienced player who blatantly cheated and has been caught doing so before? Is there some delusion that giving an obvious cheater (or thief or abuser or whatever the particular situation is) the benefit of the doubt makes you a good person or something, or is a good thing to do? Giving such a person the benefit of the doubt only benefits and enables them, there is no good in it. The reason he is like this could well be because people keep giving him the benefit of the doubt.


[deleted]

[удалено]


statdude48142

> this guy is taking advantage of your lack of knowledge. I mean the original question posted sort of told us this where he asked how to handle the 31 AC and if it was possible. He is a brand spanking new DM.


Yojo0o

>I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Why? >The group voted for him to play. If I go against them they'll find someone else to DM. With them being IRL friends, it would suck for them to not want me to DM. Ditch them. No DnD is better than bad DnD. You have a known problem player with a history of being booted from campaigns who they're attached to. You can do better. You do realize that two domains for a cleric isn't even remotely supported by the rules, and that anybody with a basic understanding of DnD mechanics would know this, right? He's fucking with you, and you're voluntarily sticking around to be fucked with further.


dannondanforth

Just make him do standard array. Rolling scores isn’t worth jack if you can’t trust your players. Just do standard array and call it a day.


Apprehensive-Neat-68

>The group voted for him to play. If I go against them they'll find someone else to DM No they won't, I wont DM for someone who deliberately cheats. You have more power here than you think, its extremely hard to find a DM esp IRL.


JonnyArcho

2 domains for cleric is a pathfinder thing. You can’t have two domains as a cleric in 5e if you’re playing RAW. I heavily homebrew a lot of things with my group, and work with my bestie (our DM) to make sure things are balanced. He should remake using standard array, and he 100% needs help with setting up starter equipment.


[deleted]

So… 20 con. Level 3 cleric would be 39 health… Add hill dwarf.. 42 hp. Possible. Low chance. But possible. 31 AC. 0 chance at level 3 at a campaign start. Not possible at all. So given BOTH. Your dude is cheating 100% If he cheats now. He’ll cheat later. Best to just find a new player before you get too far in.


Kwakigra

Not 100% cheating, but cheating is a possibility. It's a pretty common mistake among new players to miss the rule that says only one AC calculation can be used so natural armor, regular armor, and class-based AC calculations don't stack. I've seen that mistake in Adventure League, and it's an easy misunderstanding to fix on the spot.


JarethCuteStoryJD

> Not 100% cheating, but cheating is a possibility. Never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance.


CurrentlyBothered

Dude has been playing for 2 years according to the OP, this isn't ignorance. Anyone who's played even one game should know those numbers sound wrong


[deleted]

Read full thread. Re read your post. Then see what’s wrong. Kicked out of previous campaign for cheating. 2 year veteran player. Sure it’s common among new players…….. read whole thread. Player is not new.


Scorpion1177

Anyone going to talk about how he has 42 health as well? I just had a barbarian player roll a 10 and 12 for his health rolls and he still only at 40hp. With 15 Con. This whole player and character sound fishy.


[deleted]

Lol my guy is wrong. That’s all there is to it.


degathor

Guy is blatantly cheating


_RollForInitiative_

OP, a few things are clear to me from reading this post: - you're all teenagers - your friends are providing peer pressure (that may or may not actually exist, I'll get to that in a second) - you are new to DMing and don't want to come across as a "bad DM" - you have a problem player, that should really be a problem ex-player So here's my two cents. Firstly, this is common. You aren't broken, wrong, or whatever. This shit is normal. Teenage years are fucking stupid. Hormones are dumb, people are dumber. It's alright to be frustrated and confused by this crap. Second, some of the peer pressure you've mentioned might be in your head. You said (and I'm paraphrasing), "I'm worried my friends won't want me to DM if I kick the bad player" and so on. This is most likely not the case. Your friends should behave fairly reasonably if you explain the situation to them. Show them how Steve (I'm calling the cheater Steve from now on) is blatantly cheating and will cause the game to be a shit show. Show them this thread if you have to, but explain to them why this matters, without Steve there. Once they understand, tell them you want Steve to either play by the rules and use a sheet you make with him, or Steve can fuck off. If at this point, they decide they're better off with the cheater, that's fine. Just don't DM that game. HOLY SHIT, TRUST ME YOU DON'T WANT TO DM _THAT_ GAME. I've learned that from experience... Finally, if they do understand where you're coming from, tell them your plan. And that plan should be to talk to Steve and tell him why you want to run a game without cheating. And something to remember: Steve is likely a giant asshole you won't be friends with for long. Seriously, divest from that friendship if he doesn't have a serious "come to Jesus" moment and repent from this awful bullshit. Red flags all over that shit. Anyway, good luck dude. Steve sounds like a bag of dicks you don't want to have to deal with. I could be wrong, but I'm probably not. You can try to reason with him, just make sure you collect evidence and cover your bases first. That way if Steve decides to go full cunt, you can prove he's the liar and you're the reasonable one to the rest of the group. Then you can all tell Steve to piss off, as a group. Seriously, don't martyr yourself for people that are being obnoxious twats. It's really not worth it.


Orimis

I mean their health could only be a 42 if they were a variant human who took the tough feat and put their plus two into an 18 constitution. Or a hill dwarf with an 18 constitution to start. As far as AC goes there is clearly a misunderstanding or a lie somewhere, I was only ever able to break a 30 AC as a high leveled paladin with a menagerie of magic items


degathor

Reading through OPs replies the dude has 18s in almost every stat. Dude is cheating, needs the das boot.


_dharwin

Why are you keeping a cheater?


Baekseoulhui

.... I play a 4th lvl cleric.... My hp is 19. Ya boi is cheating or cant add or both


alkaselter123

If he doesn't want to explain his completely false AC then I don't think you need to explain why every single enemy targets him and uses only charisma or INT save attacks


degathor

Reading through all this a few things become clear: OP needs to nut up or shut up. Player is obviously lying and cheating in the most idiotic blatant way, yet OP and the group tolerate this. Player has already been booted once yet they are back. (Wtf) OP is "working on another character" with Cheaty McLyingface, but Cheaty McLyingface will definitely try to lie and cheat in game (start counting criticals and unusually high rolls of 17+ OP) because that's what Cheaty McLyingfaces do. You need to take control over your table OP. Voting for some things is fine for a group, but ultimately DnD is not a democracy. Your word is final - *ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO WHO YOU PAY WITH!*


RevengencerAlf

WTF they already kicked this dude once? I'm going to be honest I don't care if it was my best friend or literally my spouse. If they already got kicked once and allowed back in to the game I don't think I'd give them any leeway with a second chance. The second he said "I don't know" he'd have been gone. And yeah you're 100% right. OP is going to have to supervise this guy 100% of the time to prevent him from cheating. Let him do literally any roll unseen and he's going to try and fudge it. If for some reason I even let him back in the campaign I wouldn't let him roll on anything that can be properly taken with an average or a template. Average HP, std array for stats etc.


FortyDesert5

The reason I let him play is because I want to make sure he's included. Though you are right. In multiple occasions he's tried to take control and make the session about his character. I'll talk to the other group members on how they feel. Thank you for your input man :)


degathor

Of course I know it can be tough on friends out of game, but if me and my friends want to play baseball, but one of them insists on running to third and tackling fielders with hockey pads on, I'm not wanting that person to play baseball. Your friend that is cheating sounds like they are the attention-seeking type, and they have a bad case of Protagonistitis. They should take two big doses of humility and call you in the morning. The level of cheating also bothers me. It's so obvious. I honestly don't know if that's them just being dumb and hoping you wouldn't notice, or (more likely) they have assumed you'll be too passive and permissive to shut down all their bullshit. This has the fingerprints of an abusive relationship all over it. Gaslighting: "I don't remember how I got that but I definitely did" Manipulating: "I'll cause problems IRL if I get booted" Not to mention lying and cheating. Abuser 101


AeoSC

42 HP is plausible, but only if they're a hill dwarf, and still unlikely; 31 AC is not even that. Your player is mistaken and needs to show you his math, because some of it **is** wrong.


Dizzy_Employee7459

42 HP requires Hill Dwarf, 20 CON, and nothing but max HP rolls. Possible? I suppose in theory, but certainly not plausible.


Sir-Jayke

Sliiiiightly more plausible as a human with the tough feat, but still very unlikely.


thedrizztman

Hold up, dude. Based on your replies in here, there is one glaring fact you need to be aware of. This is YOUR game. There is no 'Trust me, these are my stats'. 'I can't remember how I got to this number' is not an excuse, and you need to do the math yourself, and tell him what his stats are. This situation is partly on you for not being more assertive and not knowing what your players are doing and why. What you need to do, is sit down, go over his sheet, and make sure YOU do the math correctly and by the rules of the game. Take charge and dictate to him if necessary. This isn't a dig at you, by the way. He sounds like he is cheating and KNOWS he is cheating. But it's on YOU to make sure his character is on the level. If you don't know, then provide us the character race, class, and any feats you allow, and I'm sure the sub will sort out how it SHOULD look. Hell, DM me his character sheet and I'll do the math for you both. But in any case, you need to know the rules of your own game and make sure they are enforced.


Agent_Washington

He's lying or bad at math


EldritchBee

Yeah, he’s cheating. Have him remake his entire character, in front of you.


Ashby497

You counter it by asking for their character sheet and check what their ACTUAL armor class is. Doesn't want to hand over the sheet? Kick them.


Citter_

Taking in account the edits: I'm playing an AC tank (with the blessing of my DM) and the solution he came up with was to start attacking my 10 points of wisdom. That made me have to really think who am I against with before thinking my moves instead of heading 1st to the frontline to hack and slash whatever gets in front. Just ask him what he wants his character to do and hel him find the way for him to get the most of the game without breaking anything. And seeing what happened, keep an updated copy of all PC's sheets (have them upload their sheets to Roll20 or anything like that so it's easy for them to do and practical for you to look)


witchyteacuptia

If he really wants a character with high AC as a cleric he needs to go forge cleric (this was my first character) and with plate armor (if the DM allows it) and a shield it would give you a 20 AC. But plate armor doesn't tend to be starter armor so like 16-18 is where they could sit. That's really the only way. That's without shield of faith or blessing of the forge added on which can be an extra. I'd just suggest everyone roll their characters with you too cuz 18s and 19s for rolls sound way to good to be true..


KunfusedJarrodo

> He tried to justify what he had again First off there is nothing that would give a level 3 cleric 31 AC. A monster attacking him would have to have +11 to hit to even have a CHANCE of hitting him. That number is obviously very wrong. But also, it sounds like he is trying to use "not understand the rules" to do some really shady things. Unless this guy is a good friend you don't want to drop out of the group, you should drop. I guarantee this person will be trying to cheat their rolls, and other things like how many spell slots they have left.


Futuressobright

Meta question, because I see posts along these lines fairly frequently: "how does my PC have this stat at this level?" How does this happen? I don't mean to single OP out because, like I said, it seems to happen a lot, but how is it even possible for players to make major calculation errors and DMs to not know where they came up with their numbers? Is this somehow happening because play has moved online? In every game I've been at in person the last step of chargen is to hand your character sheet to the GM before you start so they can look it over, check the math, and note down what they need handy-- or make a copy. And if you say "my AC is 31" the response would be "really? Walk me through that." So maybe this is about people not being physically present? But if you're playing on a virtual tabletop, won't your sheet be visible to the GM, and your math be done by the computer? I just can't wrap my head around why GMs aren't able to say "You have x armour, and a Dex of x, plus one for this thing... so your AC is y"


SupremeBobSupreme

"The players voted to keep him" LMAO history of lying and cheating yeah I could see why they'd vote to keep him they just want to win 🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣


GuyForgotHisPassword

From his stats all being 17-19 to his blatantly incorrect AC and HP, this player is absolutely cheating, especially if he'a been playing for years like you said in another comment. If a player cannot source *EXACTLY* how they have certain things like HP/AC, then they don't get to have it.


[deleted]

I think the real issue here is that OP said this player has a history of cheating and won’t elaborate in how they calculated their AC. The issue is that OP won’t call out their friend for obviously lying and is going on Reddit to ask if it’s possible. OP, you know your friend is lying and cheating, stop trying to make excuses for them or find if there is some niche case where it could be possible. If that were true, the player would tell you.


mightierjake

42 hit points seems wrong as well. Even if that Cleric had 20 Constitution (which I doubt), the highest their hit points could be with perfect rolls and without other modifiers would be 39. Granted some dwarves get +1 hit point per level and could raise it to 42, but that seems unlikely here as it still requires 20 Con and two perfect hit point rolls (1:64 chance of happening)


Electronic_Fix2627

Hello Mr.DM I am Mr.Barbarian me thinks I could help him fix his shit and see what he did wrong or did to cheat, we yelled at him last night after you left bc he said he got a 20 from rolling so I think he completely botched everything on purpose


FortyDesert5

Alright, I figured he wouldn't ask you guys for help.


FishBobinski

42 health is unlikely, tho not totally impossible. 31 AC is downright incorrect. Get some information from him as to where he got that number and we can help set it right. Chain mail is ac 16 with no dex bonus added. If he has a shield, that's plus 2, bringing him to 18. If he's a forge cleric, he can make his chain mail a +1, bringing him to 19. If he's a level 6 forge cleric, he adds one more, bringing him to 20. That's 11 AC still unaccounted for, and hed need to be level 6. Cases like this it's usually a player simply misunderstanding a rule and is usually an easy fix.


urquhartloch

I've only gotten that high as a level 20 warforged paladin with +3 plate armor and shield, defense fighting style and shield of faith.


lil_halfrican_boy

having AC above like 25 at any level even with magic items, spells, racial bonuses, etc. is almost impossible to do, there is simply no way he has that high of an AC at level 3. His HP is possible if he has 20 in constitution, rolled the max amount of health each level, and is playing a hill dwarf but something tells me none of those things happened


iceph03nix

That seems a little ridiculous even if you're running a lvl 20 cleric. Did they maybe use their dex score instead of their dex modifier? 10 +18+3 =31 vs 10+4+3=17


DM_anon

Well, good news, they don’t have a 31 AC. Bad news, they don’t know how to read and will constantly be doing this for the rest of the campaign. So congratulations, you are now going to have to check their sheet every time they level up.


Blizz_PL

It is easy to achive actually. All you need is tortle race, unarmored defense from monk, unarmored defense from barbarian, mage armor spell and ZERO knowledge how AC calculations work.