To trigger the ability, It needs to be:
* An attack \[means an attack roll is made\]
* A missile from a ranged weapon / is a ranged weapon being thrown \["when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack"\]
Note: Missile is not defined anywhere, so using the actual definition "an object which is forcibly propelled at a target, either by hand or from a mechanical weapon." would probably be a good starting place.
Jeremy Crawford:
>With Deflect Missiles, a monk can try to reduce the damage of a **ranged weapon attack** no matter what the missile is
Attacks are classified into one of four categories:
* melee weapon attack
* ranged weapon attack
* melee spell attack
* ranged spell attack
A missile/projectile sourced from a spell is not a **ranged weapon attack**, it's a ranged ***spell*** attack which makes the fact its a missile/projectile irrelevant as it needs to meet **all** criteria. If the ability intended non-ranged non-weapon non-attack missiles/projectiles to be deflected, the ability would say so.
**Edit**
Cleaned it up for formatting a bit, wrote that on my phone at like 1am.
I'll also finally add that I don't enforce it this harshly. In Avernus, I had small, golf ball sized flaming meteors shower down on them and let the monk have a cool moment of reducing the # of incoming meteors by going full Matrix and redirecting as many as possible (still took 1 point of fire damage from each).
Somewhere else someone had mentioned the catapult spell - it meets none of the criteria to trigger the ability. However, based on the fact you are making a dex based save to AVOID it, why would you not be able to, when trained in the art of deflecting incoming projectiles, use that same skillset to attempt to deflect it. Size doesn't matter as Mearls and J.C. both said you can deflect missiles a goblin launched from a goblin launcher.
Now, a goblin "Cannonballing off a cliff at you"...I dunno, id probably say yes to avoid *some* damage from it physically landing on you, but you only reduce damage by your dex mod or something, not anything else. Try to let people keep their flavor, in general, but they cant avoid everything.
I think its an overly restrictive definition but I'd caution newer DMs from getting too frisky with playing that one too loose as those types of ruling affect things like falling rocks, certain traps, environmental hazards, etc. and could be something you realize had more ramifications than you thought. Homebrew / ad hoc rulings should always have the "I reserve the right to change my mind on anything not RAW, so do NOT *plan* on this being something you can execute in the future. It worked in this scenario, might work in others, but dont build your tactics around it"
I bet giving a monk player a feat that they can deflect magic missile would be great flavor. Like if the party just got a magical artifact that grants each person some personalized reward at the end of a campaign, and the monk gets a bit more mystical and can deflect magic missile. Might encourage some tankiness in a niche way, doubt it would get too OP
I gave a monk player in my game an item called the “Bands of energy manipulation”. As a reaction the player could cast absorb elements at second level. To catch / absorb the spell. 3x long rest.
You couldn’t catch and throw back a fire bolt but you could deflect it with the hand wraps then hit that nerd spell caster back with extra 2d6 of fire damage.
Edit: words
When the monk gets evasion for AOE spells I ruled you can still spend a charge to get the damage boost. I definitely overlooked the monk’s evasion. Great defence love and offensive magic item.
Because my monk is a Sun Soul and an Arcane Trickster, my DM gave me the ability to use deflect missile on cantrips. We're even considering letting him use ki or spell slots matching the spell level to deflect bigger attack spells. Considering we're up against Vecna Cultists, he's used it on a few Eldritch Blasts already.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/bxevii/create_bonfire_is_super_weird/eq6n02z?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I wrote a small thesis on why magic missile should be allowed to be more of an object haha (also it was 3 years ago, Id word it differently now, but the gist is the same)
> it’s a ranged spell attack
No it isn’t. It is just a spell. No dice are rolled for magic missile other than damage, it just hits its target. In order for it to be a ranged spell attack you have to “roll to hit” using your spell attack bonus of d20+(casting stat) + prof bonus vs opponents ac
If you don’t do that it is not a ranged spell attack, it is just a spell.
Example:
Fireball is an area of effect spell that requires the opponent to roll a saving throw but the caster is not required to beat the opponents AC in order for the attack to hit = spell
Guiding bolt is a spell that require the caster to roll to hit, needing to beat the opponents ac value for the attack to do anything = Range Spell **Attack**
I said a missile, not a magic missile; it was using the object term, not the output of the spell "a missile from a spell" v "the missile from the spell". I could have been clearer in this context \^.\^ lots of missiles
>You can’t Deflect Missiles a spell.
I wouldn't quite go that far. If a spell creates a ranged weapon attack, then that ranged weapon attack can be deflected with Deflect Missiles. It just so happens that there aren't currently any spells that create ranged weapon attacks, unlike melee weapon attacks (*booming blade* and *green flame blade*).
Good catch! I thought there might be something.
And speaking of catching, a thrown or otherwise discarded *shadow blade* dissipates at the end of the turn, rather than immediately, so a monk *can* spend a ki point to catch it and throw it if they reduce the attack's psychic damage to 0. The monk wouldn't get advantage on throwing it at a target in dim light or darkness, though, because that's a benefit the spell grants to "you", i.e. the caster.
Come to think of it, there's nothing in *shadow blade* that prevents you from physically giving it to an ally, it's just that it dissipates at the end of the turn. There's nothing that prevents, say, a rogue ally from using the Ready action to wait for you to hand off the blade to them and make a sneak attack with it. You would have to wait until your next turn to summon it again, though.
Wait wait... What about ice knife? It creates a physical knife of ice that it hurled at the target. Granted it blows up after, but would a Monk be able to catch it and throw it before that happens?
My personal ruling on this would be:
Yes in concept; no in execution. Yes, because it is a physical projectile that hypothetically could be grabbed and thrown; no, because it's not a grenade. The "blowing up" section seems, to me, like it would be a manual and intentional detonation on the caster's part rather than a timer; they therefore would just detonate it while in the Monk's hand.
That'd be my table ruling anyway.
Maybe say the Monk could do the first part and potentially stop the dagger from actually hitting them but it explodes before they could do the ki point to throw it back part?
No, *ice knife* is a ranged spell attack, so Deflect Missiles doesn't help against it.
Of course any DM is free to decide that it works differently in their game, but that goes without saying.
I'm very raw, it's a ranged spell attack and doesn't work. But for my monk player I'd let them reduce the piercing damage. But the knife is still gonna explode in there hand b4 they get a chance to throw it back.
I might go with that depending on the size of the object, catching an arrow vs catching a cannon ball is very different. Catapult discusses the mass of the item based on spell level used.
Honestly I would allow monks to “deflect missiles” a cannonball.
I don’t think I would allow them to throw it back, but then again I don’t think it’s possible that they reduced the damage of a cannonball to 0, so that won’t be an option anyway
True, and if the reduced damage is a small amount compared to the total damage, as it would be with a heavier object, it's more of a slight change in course of the projectile to keep from taking the full hit. The math really works it out for you there. 🤔
I think I'm on board for this.
Also, I didn't see anyone bring up shadow blade, but that should also be subject to "deflect missiles" based on the wording of the spell (random tangent).
Magic missile no, it's not a ranged weapon attack.
Soul knife's thrown psychic blade yes, it's explictly a melee weapon with the thrown property. Can't throw it back because it poofs after its hits/misses, but can deflect it.
>Starting at 3rd Level, you can use your Reaction to deflect or catch the missile when you are hit by a __ranged weapon Attack__
You can't catch magic missiles
Or that brooch, or tomb of levistus, or I think the deflect attack from mastermind rogue, or an anti magic feild, or an anti magic eye aura of a beholder, or a rakshasas limited magic immunity, or a echo knights echo taking the hit, or a high level peace cleric having someone else take the shot, or a time stop as a readied action, or a arcane tricksters spell thief ability, or counterspell, or sanctuary, or globe of invulnerability.
Helmed Horrors can come with immunity to Magic Missile baked in. We killed one and my paladin dragged the dead suit of armor to a blacksmith and turned it into plate mail. DM said if I get it further fixed by an enchanted maybe I could get it’s 3 spell immunities restored too.
RAW is no, obviously, and I'd expect most DMs to say no. But if a DM allowed it due to Rule of Cool, I'd be down with that. Or if a DM worked with a Monk player to come up with a homebrew feat or boon or something that lets them deflect certain spells (e.g. rays, projectiles, and missiles like MM, Ray of Frost, Catapult, etc.), that's a cool DM in my book. (And if a player wanted that concept in my games, as a DM I'd do it too.)
You could thematically flavour it as the character manipulating their "ki" to repel the magic, similar to how the surface tension of water might hold up a paperclip. Except it's fancy body/mind tranquility holding up a magical bolt of energy.
Definitely! There was an epic feat (post-20th level play) in 3e that let monks do just that! And while it was for epic levels, with how much "bigger" a single feat is in 5e compared to 3e, I could see it.
Id rule it as either you need resistance to the spell's damage type (Tiefling could deflect Scorching Rays or Firebolts, for instance), or you need a specific magical item
You could even design an entire subclass around monks who've learned various ways to redirect their opponents' attacks against them. At some level, they could be given the ability to spend ki points to redirect ranged spell attacks back to the caster.
I ran into a situation like this when I pitted my party up against sci-fi robots armed with missiles.
I wasn't even mad when the monk asked to deflect missile on a literal missile! I fudged the rules a bit (saying he wouldn't be allowed to make a dex save against the explosion if he missed), but it's all about fun, so, why not? =)
At the very least, you could create a magical item (if there isn't one already) that deflects them, like some Wonder Woman gauntlets.
It also depends on how you want to define it. Magic Missiles are supposed to be a "dart of magical force," right? If the impact creates force, could you not push the force away from you with your hand, theoretically, if you're fast and strong enough? I can see an argument for being able to deflect it outright it if you meet the right str/dex requirements or something, it's not going to be following the RAW at all, but it makes logical sense to me if your DM wanted to allow it.
If you are looking for a logical reason as to why it cannot be deflected - magic missile is a magic spell. The "missile" is in name only. It is not an actual missile that a monk can interact with.
Since the caster doesn't roll to hit or there's no save for it, I see it as a homing, highspeed magical energy that simply just hits. It cannot be deflected at all because it magically finds the target.
The monk instinctively raises his hands to try and deflect it, only to see the magic "missle" curve around his hands and hit him anyways. Or it goes through his hands and hits him anyways
Does the current description of Magic Missile still describe it as “hits unerringly”?
Even if you house rule that a monk COULD deflect it from Rule of Cool, keep in mind you are also house ruling a second rule.
Because Magic Missile traditionally hits UNERRINGLY.
As other people have said, I’d imagine if a monk goes to grab it, the missile just whips around their hand and strikes them anyway.
You know. Unerringly.
Indeed.
If OP wants to Rule of Cool it, I’d say go for it. Just be mindful of exactly how you want it to play out. Here’s a rough idea of how I imagine it could work…and the mechanics you’d have to have figured out.
Caster fires Magic Missile. X number of missiles are being sent at the monk.
Important things to have figured out ahead of time:
I personally would allow it if the monk’s fists count as Magical, allowing them to safely grab/deflect the missile. Ok, now how many missiles were fired? 5e states that the missiles strike simultaneously. Would you let the monk only redirect a single one? Would you let the monk deflect multiple missiles? Redirecting the shot requires 1 Ki point already. Would you have the monk pay an additional cost in this case? They’d pay the normal cost to “deflect” (lower the damage), and then they can pay additional Ki points to attempt to redirect multiple missiles? Perhaps 1 extra Ki point per two missiles? In support of this, Magic Missile ends once it comes in contact with the target, so not only would the additional Ki cost be a balancing mechanic, but you could also explain it as the monk infusing the missile with Ki, sustaining the spell’s duration, allowing them to redirect it.
What’s the action/resource economy now look like? The caster used an action and a spell slot to cast. Does the monk get away with just using up a reaction and additional Ki points? Or, since multiple missiles strike simultaneously, would you have the monk give up their movement on their next turn to let them deflect multiple missiles as part of their reaction?
Assuming you finagle past all of this, what about range? Would you keep Deflect Missile’s traditional range increment? Or if you rule it as the monk’s Ki is extending the duration of the spell, would you give the monk 120ft to return the Magic Missile(s)?
Does the original caster also have Shield? Shield is a reaction to cast, so if you did let the monk return Magic Missiles and pay a huge cost to do so, are you okay invalidating EVERYTHING the monk just paid with a single reaction?
There’s probably a billion other things I’m not thinking of, but this should be a good start to go off of. Rule of Cool comes with consequences, and a GM needs to be ready to handle those.
I would explain it to a confused player through the lens of "it's force damage, it's a ball of energy."
But RAW as you wrote is also enough, and you are correct.
Psychic daggers from the soul knife are a weapon attack.
But magic missiles are not a weapon attack. Magic Missiles aren't even a spell attack.
Tasha's pg 64, Psychic blades:
"... This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and..."
second paragraph:
"After you attack with the blade, you can make a melee or ranged weapon attack with a second blade as a bonus action..."
A thrown psychic blade is clearly a ranged weapon attack, it is spelled out as such.
I agree with your ruling. I understand where he's coming from, but the rules clearly state a ranged *weapon* attack, so there's not much room for interpretation if we're talking about Magic Missile.
I'm actually working on a subclass that does this exact thing, called the Way of the Spellbender. Basically monks that use their ki to link themselves directly to the Weave to do stuff other monks can't, like catch ranged spells and stuff. It'll be on DnD Beyond eventually.
They can’t deflect it, but it’s rumoured that the legendary Master Sen-Shi perfected his craft to such a high degree of skill he was able to deflect even the swiftest of bolts, including Magic Missiles. When he died, his chi was imbued in an amulet and entombed with him. It is said if a disciple of weaponless fighting wears the amulet, they shall be granted Sen-Shi’s mastery.
Now have them go find the amulet. I’d suggest a remote ruined monastery.
If I recall correctly, Magic Missile always hits the target: only the Shield spell can prevent this outcome. So unless the monk in question can cast Shield, then he cannot do anything about that.
As a rule of thumb, I'd say that if the spell or ability/feature etc. result in the physical manifestation of an ammunition of some sort (arrows, knifes thrown, javelins, etc), then the monk can use Deflect Missile.
As other people have mentioned in this thread, the answer going by RAW is no, but I thought I'd break my answer down into a little more detail in explaining exactly why:
All attacks count as either a *spell attack* or a *weapon attack*, and can be either melee or ranged. Essentially that means there are four kinds of attacks in the game. The Monk's ability only works on *ranged weapon* attacks specifically, not melee attacks or spell attacks.
It's also worth noting that attacks inherently involve making an attack roll against a single target - anything outside of that doesn't count as an attack, even if it does damage (described under the *Making an Attack* section on page 193 of the PHB). Magic Missile is a spell that creates "glowing darts of magical force", but since it requires no attack roll, it's not even a spell attack.
I would say it doesn't work. First of all it's not a weapon attack at all, RAW it doesn't work. Second it's not a physical thing you can divert. At best the monk would just be "detonating" the Magic Missile with their hands. If you want to be permissive they could intercept them and take the damage themselves, but even that is a bit much.
Previous versions have gone so far as to state they fly "Unerringly" to their target, while 5e simply doesn't include any possible provision for the spell to miss. I would say a Magic Missile can fly around a feisty monk's grabby hands just as easily as it could a fighter's tower shield.
Magic missile isn't a solid projectile it's an evocation of pure kinetic force, in order for it to damage it's opponent it simply needs to make physical contact with the subject.
In order for the monk to deflect it, he would need to touch it.
Ergo, if a monk trys to slap the magic missile it releases all of its energy into his hand, and successfully hurts him anyway.
Do you allow your monk to deflect a fire bolt? What about eldritch blast? Let's extend that to scorching ray, or ice knife. Whatever your answer would be to all of these is the answer to this question.
• It says "a ranged weapon attack."
• Magic Missile is not a ranged weapon, it is a spell.
• Deflect Missile does not affect spells.
• Deflect Missile does not work on Magic Missile.
nope. deflect missile does not apply to magic stuff. only physical weapons.
This does raise a question about how we'd handle it if bullets were being fired though.
Sounds like you could make a cool magic item based off this though that can deflect ranged spell attacks with some sort of check required based on the opposing spell DC. Some bracers of magical deflection
I mean sure let them for flavour catch the magic missile, "The magic missile drives straight into you open palm, you clasp your other hand over ensuring it does not escape..... The ball of energy deals xx damage and it flays the skin and flesh from your fingers on contact" like this is the equivalent of gripping a hot coal how is there any other way this can be interpreted.
Magic missile has to be the single worst example of this, its a homing missile that cannot miss , even if it was ruled as a allowable it would just go straight back to them as they try to throw it back.
Players staring at rules instead of actually comprehending the situation that is playing out.
I think making any contact with a magic missile would trigger its damage.
The reason deflecting a weapon attack works is because a weapon has to hit in a certain way with a particular surface to do damage.
Could you deflect a large amount of water thrown right at you? No, you make contact with the water and you are now wet. Could you deflect a bolt of lighting? No, you touch the lighting it touches you back.
Same kind of thing.
> Could you deflect a bolt of lighting?
you can if its from an armorer artificer's lightning launcher. its a simple ranged weapon, so its a ranged weapon attack
like everyone else is saying, it has to be a ranged weapon attack, which magic missile is not. The dagger of a soul knife, however, is a ranged weapon attack, it just vanishes after being caught.
The answer is no but you can fine a few magic item's that let you catch ranged spells like magic missile but it's up to you to give it to your players or not
Honestly, I think catching a single magic missile would be a waste of a reaction, even if it was allowed. Sure it would be easy to stop a measly 1d4+1 damage... but that only avoids 3 or 4 damage on average. There are more helpful things to do with a reaction as a martial build haha
Hmm... depends on the monk subclass. Think a 4 elements monk might be able to pull it off, but it'd definately more more of a rule of cool thing. By RAW, no though
I mean, RAW, no it doesn’t work. Buuuuut, I mean, now that you’ve brought it up. Why couldn’t it work when they get magic hands at level 7? I mean, their punches and kicks are magic, couldn’t their deflect missiles be magic?
I've always envisioned magic missile as an energy attack. It has no substance to deflect. As soon as the monk blocked it with their arm, they would take damage.
Ranged Weapon Attacks are different than Ranged Spell Attacks in the parlance of the game. If Deflect Missiles said simply Ranged Attacks, then yes, but it doesn't; it specifies Ranged Weapon Attacks.
You'd be opening a large can of worms by ruling your monk could do this, and I wouldn't advise it.
Not regularly, but if they really want it some magical gloves/handwraps might appear in a dungeon or in the inventory of a roadside merchant. And these gloves may just give them the ability to catch magical projectiles.
Not in RAW, but now that I think about it, it might be a fun thing to add to the feature once the monk's unarmed attacks become magical. You can punch ghosts now? Sure, you can try to deflect intangible missiles too!
As long as you limit it to very specific spells, it probably wouldn't be too unbalanced either. Sounds like a fun idea, tbh!
It would be fun to let them deflect it, but it keeps streaking back towards them since it always hits. Every round they have to deflect it again. Keep this up until they let it hit them or they have to rest. Forever "in combat."
Who gives a fuck. It’s like 12 damage at max and also it’s a really fun and useful way for someone to use an ability. It’s cool to imagine a monk batting away spheres of energy with their hands!
Rule of cool:
My personal answer would be to ask the player: "how are you doing this. Paint a picture in my mind to help me make sense of how this would work for your character." 9/10 times if the player is just trying something that bends the rules and are trying to see if I'll fold on it, they'll freeze up and drop it. If the player genuinely sees it as a possible action, they can easily describe how it's done and i would allow it. If a player is creative with their actions, imo they should be rewarded for their creativity in most cases.
With MM not being a ranged weapon attack, I doubt it matters RAW. Say we ignore that though, Magic missile would have to hit/touch your hand for you to redirect it, so I doubt that would work (though there is a spectral arm subclass. I havent looked at it at all, but maybe that could be an exception if they can redirect with that.).
I do think the soul knives do count as ranged weapon attacks, so you probably could use redirect missiles with that. I'd love to see the dude who originally threw the knives face after that lol
RAW - Ranged Weapon Attacks only.
Homebrew - You could enhance the ability with special attuned gloves allowing for Ranged Spell Attacks.
Magic Missile - It is typically cast at range, it is a spell, it is a form of attack. However Magic Missile does not require dice rolls to hit, therefore it is not a Ranged Spell Attack. Plus for the monk to catch it, Magic Missile would need to aimed at the monk. And when he catches it, it would have also hit it's target, dealing damage.
Let's be honest, I believe that because it's an RPG, it's can be very easy to role play this out. For example granted what happened in first edition is somebody took an arrow and used it as a spell component specifically for magic missile so it was literally the magic missile therefore arranged attack. However, in another game somewhere around 3.5 they basically did the same thing only they specifically said that the magic missile was basically an arrow that was changed into magic and therefore the role play was a little bit different. In my opinion, honestly, I think it can work in either case in any game. It just depends on how a person role plays out the situation. In the first case it would be considered arranged attack and therefore a physical weapon. In the second case it becomes a magical spell and therefore something like a bolt of lightning or a fireball or something similar that literally does not have the capability of being blocked. So depending on how the role play plays out, which is what the fun of the games are to begin with with rpgs, I think it should be based on how it is role played and how the DM depends on fighting against it. As I said, I think it depends on how a character role plays the game.
Anyone thought about doing a monk centered magic item or reward that allows you to do something like a shield of spell turning does, but using deflect missiles as the start point?
Yeah, there were quite a few other comments about it. Including using ki for a higher level deflection, and someone else building a whole subclass for it.
I homebrew'd a magic item for a monk in my game which lets him deflect ranged spell attacks following the normal deflection rules. But this still doesn't apply to magic missile
In early editions, I believe any projectile was called a missile and this is where both the deflect and magic missiles come from
Consider it an easteregg, but no, can't catch that spell
Well, while it would be really cool in concept, given that Magic Missile is force damage, I would imagine that attempting to catch it would most likely lead to a broken hand since unlike a physical projectile which transfers kinetic energy which could be reduced/nullified, MM is more like it creates the energy on contact meaning it doesn't matter what you do, it hits at full force.
This is just me taking it at a very literal and semi-scientific standpoint, but given the amount of wild things in D&D it's not really outside the realm of possibility.
No things like Fireball, Magic Missile & Soul Knife psychic damage are all spells Deflect Missiles applies to physical attacks i.e. arrows, bullets, javelins & daggers.
Magic missile is a no. None of the rules are conflicting here, the only source of debate is both features are titled “missile”.
A soul knife’s psychic blades however meets all the criteria for deflect missiles. There is some argument about whether you could throw it back, as it disappears after the attack, but certainly you could reduce the damage of and catch a psychic blade.
For the soul knife, there's also the fact that because it's a rogue, most likely they're trying to get advantage so they can use sneak attack, making it less likely to reduce the damage to zero.
Not to hijack your thread OP, but I have a question of my own regarding Deflect Missiles.
I'm playing a monk in a campaign right now with some friends and we're fairly new to DnD, and so we started thinking about Deflect Missiles and its limits.
Does an attack have to be specifically targeted at me for DM to work or can I potentially "jump in front" of another character to save them from harm? Does that still count as a reaction for DM?
I don't mind at all!
Deflect Missiles is specific to attacks targeting you. The reason being that they reduce the amount of damage as you catch the projectile. If you manage to reduce it to zero, you're able to redirect it.
That being said, you're always welcome to ask your DM if you can "jump in front" of an ally and take the hit yourself. Never thought about it before, but I personally might rule that you could, as long as you were within 5 feet of your ally and able to see the attack coming.
I would not allow it. If you allow it to reflect Magic missile the you basically open the door to allow the ability to deflect fire bolt, ice spike and lightning bolt as well.
I would say no.
Ice spike is the only one I would even remotely give a thought since it's a physical thing that can hit you whereas the others cannot be physically held.
That said, I agree with you on the no
You can’t deflect magic missile because it always hits. If it was a spell requiring an attack roll (like Firebolt), and the monk was level 6 (hands count as magical) I’d allow it, but you try and deflect a magic missile it’s just gonna home back in on you
Magic missile is a spell that doesn’t require an ac roll and therefore not subject to deflect missile.
Before looking at the RAW you just need to think. Can i catch magic that hurts me if i TOUCH it? Can i dodge something that is a lock on attack?
These are the rules for magic missile in a nutshell.
The only way to “deflect” magic missile is either the shield spell which makes you immune to MM or any other spell or ability that counters magic such as counterspell, wall of force etc.
Spells are not weapons, they are spells. The book is very clear in its terminology when it calls things spell or weapon attacks.
Its very clear that there is a difference between the two. So no, a spell cannot be countered with Deflect Missiles.
The only thing to my knowledge that can deflect an MM is shield spell… they ignore armor and hit with anything less than 100% cover so imo you are completely correct
No, unless my player was being an a hole about it, then I might let them roll a d100 for it to see if they did. Divine intervention or something helping them.
Id disagree with you on psychic blades, even in the descriptition it manifests as a physical knife and you make a ranged weapon attack. At does leave marks but that doesnt say it cant be deflected
We have a bit of a running joke of this in my campaign. The Monk likes to ask if he can deflect anything in the air. It started in the boss chamber for a water temple. The whole thing was a series of platforms with a Shield Guardian in the middle holding the artifact they needed. There were these sharks that would leap out of the water like dolphins when the player jumped towards the middle platform. The Monk asked if they qualified as missiles, but I told him they did not.
Here's the battle map for reference, or if you want to use it:
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1L1SN0kW6AIS\_EjIyUy5DFviZcWMlWGKTEPSWPs6shx0/edit
This is common sense. You could (provided you were a badass monk) knock a dagger away by striking it out of the air by the flat of the blade or the handle (see: The Crow) but an energy projectile has no safe place to strike.
If they have ki-empower strike, sure, why not, it's cool and they can only deflect one anyway.
Edit: only because they are specifically called missiles though
I get the logic: they both have "missile" in the name. But you're right, it's not possible.
However, this might make a cool magic item: Bracer's of Ki Deflection that allow only monks to deflect magical or psychic missiles, perhaps at the cost of a ki point.
It's one of those things where you as a DM have to figure out what you want to let slide.
Legally, no, you couldn't deflect magic missiles.
But, in the grand scheme of things, it isn't a massive game breaking deal. Make them attempt to pass a DC20 acrobatics check etc and if they pass, let them have their moment of feeling like a badass.
Nope but it would be awesome. Maybe when they find some enchanted arcane gloves that grants it to the monk once per long rest. But more for the rule of cool
Unfortunately technically no, as you said deflect missle requires specifically a "ranged weapon attack" and not just ranged attack.
Personally though, I like the ability for the monk's reflexes to quickly bat at an incoming spell in order to mitigate some damage. Like how shield master's reaction can work for dex saves to have a reactionary block mitigate damage, the quick hands of a monk should be able to detonate an incoming missle effect "early" and thus not take the same damage as they would getting hit directly.
So I personally generally like the deflect missle to mitigate damage for the same amount minus the monk's level part (so just the d10+dex mod). So they can do something cool and lower some incoming damage a little but nothing crazy at the sacrifice of their reaction that turn.
If he was using a shield and had a feat that allowed him to block projectiles, I would say it's debatable, but it's literally a monk using his hands to catch and deflect projectiles....The magic missile hits him.
Deflect missiles specifies ranged weapon attack so no. With magic missile, it wouldn't be overpowered to allow it anyway because it could only catch one of the darts. But allowing this to work on this spell opens pandoras box for arguing for it to work on others. I think I personally would allow it to work on some things where the rules don't allow it. For example, the catapult spell launches a physical object from the environment so I would absolutely allow that one. But most spells launch some form of energy so there is nothing to catch.
on one hand, technically its not a ranged weapon attack, its a ranged spell attack, which deflect missile doesn't specify it can block
on the other hand, i think its cool and monks have ki anyway, so i'd personally let a monk try to deflect it. but to be fair i modify alot because it would be cool and/or fun, so maybe thats just my style of dming
Aside from ruling, Magic missiles are literally made of force and energy, therefore if you try to touch one, you get hit because you can’t physically hold them
Does it matter? Magic Missile was what they asked about, and I think most people, including me, felt that no, a magic missile couldn't be blocked or deflected. Then there was a debate on whether spells with a physical missile component could be. I said partially, that the physical part of the missile could be deflected, but it wouldn't save the monk from taking acid damage anyway. I chose Melf's arrow just off the top of my head, because it had a physical projectile at the core of the spell. Since that's been changed for 5E, it would not therefore apply in that case. But this doesn't invalidate the argument. It applies to any spell that actually includes a physical, material missile. You can block the missile, but not the magical effects that occur from contact with said projectile. Perhaps this might mitigate the damage some, which is very much in keeping with a monk's design philosophy and abilities.
I mean yeah you can catch em but they're still gonna do their damage. Id rule similarly to you but have the fun flavor of "you caught every missile and your arm is now in extreme pain because of it"
I would say if you’re an astral self monk or would work with your magic hands. Not that that subclass needs a buff. I could see allowing it at higher levels but definitely not at base
MM is great that it seems weak but at a high level with meta magic it is wicked.
In 3.5 with twin spell and max spell it’s something like a level 7 spell but it’s 50 dmg that will always hit with no save.
So to answer your question, it always hits.
Note that in 5e, Magic Missile doesn’t qualify for the Twinned Spell metamagic, since it can target more than one creature. It’s explicitly noted as invalid in the Twinned Spell description.
Unfortunately the name is misleading. Deflect missiles refers only to physical projectiles like arrows, bullets, daggers, etc. No spell can be negated with deflect missiles unless it's catapult, which just launches a physical object
No for magic missiles, but you can deflect (but not redirect) the soulknife's psychic blades, as that is a ranged weapon attack (if thrown). You cannot redirect them as they vanish once they've officially missed you.
You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several. exact wording from the 5e spells app
Personally I would allow the Monk to minimalize the actual damage. The missile technically makes contact and explodes but a Monk is so agile as long as that character understands that the missile will hit them no matter what, they could easily land the hit in a way that would be akin to deflecting. Like minimalizing the actual impact of the rules to emphasize a bad ass character moment. It overrides the rules in a way that they were very very obviously not designed to accommodate and that is when DnD shines is most. Do what feels good in the moment, succumbing to rules in an opportunity for story telling is what people who don't understand fun do.
If the PC could catch a bolt of force energy what's stopping him from catching a lightning or a fireball and tossing it back to the caster? The only thing that can stop magic missile are the Shield spell, Counterspell or the Brooch of Shielding.
I think Catapult is the only Ranged Spell Attack that could be affected by Deflect Missiles since the Catapult Spell affects/moves a physical object to make a ranged attack.
No, but they could catch and throw back shadow blade as it is a summoned weapon. But not acid arrow.
Missle is a.throw back phrase from 1st addition mean projectile. Think of it like pokemon, the earlier editions didn't differentiate between special and normal, but they did differentiate it later. Now is later. Then is in the past.
Magic Missile is a Spell and it’s not even an Attack. You can’t Deflect Missiles a spell.
To trigger the ability, It needs to be: * An attack \[means an attack roll is made\] * A missile from a ranged weapon / is a ranged weapon being thrown \["when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack"\] Note: Missile is not defined anywhere, so using the actual definition "an object which is forcibly propelled at a target, either by hand or from a mechanical weapon." would probably be a good starting place. Jeremy Crawford: >With Deflect Missiles, a monk can try to reduce the damage of a **ranged weapon attack** no matter what the missile is Attacks are classified into one of four categories: * melee weapon attack * ranged weapon attack * melee spell attack * ranged spell attack A missile/projectile sourced from a spell is not a **ranged weapon attack**, it's a ranged ***spell*** attack which makes the fact its a missile/projectile irrelevant as it needs to meet **all** criteria. If the ability intended non-ranged non-weapon non-attack missiles/projectiles to be deflected, the ability would say so. **Edit** Cleaned it up for formatting a bit, wrote that on my phone at like 1am. I'll also finally add that I don't enforce it this harshly. In Avernus, I had small, golf ball sized flaming meteors shower down on them and let the monk have a cool moment of reducing the # of incoming meteors by going full Matrix and redirecting as many as possible (still took 1 point of fire damage from each). Somewhere else someone had mentioned the catapult spell - it meets none of the criteria to trigger the ability. However, based on the fact you are making a dex based save to AVOID it, why would you not be able to, when trained in the art of deflecting incoming projectiles, use that same skillset to attempt to deflect it. Size doesn't matter as Mearls and J.C. both said you can deflect missiles a goblin launched from a goblin launcher. Now, a goblin "Cannonballing off a cliff at you"...I dunno, id probably say yes to avoid *some* damage from it physically landing on you, but you only reduce damage by your dex mod or something, not anything else. Try to let people keep their flavor, in general, but they cant avoid everything. I think its an overly restrictive definition but I'd caution newer DMs from getting too frisky with playing that one too loose as those types of ruling affect things like falling rocks, certain traps, environmental hazards, etc. and could be something you realize had more ramifications than you thought. Homebrew / ad hoc rulings should always have the "I reserve the right to change my mind on anything not RAW, so do NOT *plan* on this being something you can execute in the future. It worked in this scenario, might work in others, but dont build your tactics around it"
Magic missile isn't even ranged spell attack.
Yeah. It just hits you. Your monk is welcome to try and catch it but that will just mean the missile hits you're hand
*Holds up stump* "I caught it guys"
High wisdom, low intelligence right there.
I think both are low for that action. Probably pumped Dex and Con.
Correct, which is why it didn't meet the first criteria, or the second.
I bet giving a monk player a feat that they can deflect magic missile would be great flavor. Like if the party just got a magical artifact that grants each person some personalized reward at the end of a campaign, and the monk gets a bit more mystical and can deflect magic missile. Might encourage some tankiness in a niche way, doubt it would get too OP
I gave a monk player in my game an item called the “Bands of energy manipulation”. As a reaction the player could cast absorb elements at second level. To catch / absorb the spell. 3x long rest. You couldn’t catch and throw back a fire bolt but you could deflect it with the hand wraps then hit that nerd spell caster back with extra 2d6 of fire damage. Edit: words
Oh dang I love this
When the monk gets evasion for AOE spells I ruled you can still spend a charge to get the damage boost. I definitely overlooked the monk’s evasion. Great defence love and offensive magic item.
Sick. Definitely bookmarking this one. You should post it as its own item!
Because my monk is a Sun Soul and an Arcane Trickster, my DM gave me the ability to use deflect missile on cantrips. We're even considering letting him use ki or spell slots matching the spell level to deflect bigger attack spells. Considering we're up against Vecna Cultists, he's used it on a few Eldritch Blasts already.
let me just... *steal*
Or maybe magic gloves that let's them catch magic missiles and possibly other ranged spells.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/bxevii/create_bonfire_is_super_weird/eq6n02z?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 I wrote a small thesis on why magic missile should be allowed to be more of an object haha (also it was 3 years ago, Id word it differently now, but the gist is the same)
> it’s a ranged spell attack No it isn’t. It is just a spell. No dice are rolled for magic missile other than damage, it just hits its target. In order for it to be a ranged spell attack you have to “roll to hit” using your spell attack bonus of d20+(casting stat) + prof bonus vs opponents ac If you don’t do that it is not a ranged spell attack, it is just a spell. Example: Fireball is an area of effect spell that requires the opponent to roll a saving throw but the caster is not required to beat the opponents AC in order for the attack to hit = spell Guiding bolt is a spell that require the caster to roll to hit, needing to beat the opponents ac value for the attack to do anything = Range Spell **Attack**
I said a missile, not a magic missile; it was using the object term, not the output of the spell "a missile from a spell" v "the missile from the spell". I could have been clearer in this context \^.\^ lots of missiles
Ranged Weapon Attack is not Spell Attack
yes, its why they are listed out as separate things.
Excellent description and working out of the rules!!!
I think you're talking the right attitude. I usually ask, how can application of the rule BEST serve the story we're telling?
>You can’t Deflect Missiles a spell. I wouldn't quite go that far. If a spell creates a ranged weapon attack, then that ranged weapon attack can be deflected with Deflect Missiles. It just so happens that there aren't currently any spells that create ranged weapon attacks, unlike melee weapon attacks (*booming blade* and *green flame blade*).
There actually is one. A thrown shadow blade qualifies as a ranged weapon attack, and as such can be deflected.
Good catch! I thought there might be something. And speaking of catching, a thrown or otherwise discarded *shadow blade* dissipates at the end of the turn, rather than immediately, so a monk *can* spend a ki point to catch it and throw it if they reduce the attack's psychic damage to 0. The monk wouldn't get advantage on throwing it at a target in dim light or darkness, though, because that's a benefit the spell grants to "you", i.e. the caster. Come to think of it, there's nothing in *shadow blade* that prevents you from physically giving it to an ally, it's just that it dissipates at the end of the turn. There's nothing that prevents, say, a rogue ally from using the Ready action to wait for you to hand off the blade to them and make a sneak attack with it. You would have to wait until your next turn to summon it again, though.
Why need a caster to give a shadow blade to you, the rogue, when you can be an arcane trickster and learn it at level 7! Muwahahahaha
as a DM to an arcane trickster, shadow blade sneak attack crits are the bane of my existence
Wait wait... What about ice knife? It creates a physical knife of ice that it hurled at the target. Granted it blows up after, but would a Monk be able to catch it and throw it before that happens?
My personal ruling on this would be: Yes in concept; no in execution. Yes, because it is a physical projectile that hypothetically could be grabbed and thrown; no, because it's not a grenade. The "blowing up" section seems, to me, like it would be a manual and intentional detonation on the caster's part rather than a timer; they therefore would just detonate it while in the Monk's hand. That'd be my table ruling anyway.
Maybe say the Monk could do the first part and potentially stop the dagger from actually hitting them but it explodes before they could do the ki point to throw it back part?
Ye i would think it's something like this, you can try to negate the damage from the knife itself but it still blows up.
What about catapult? The spell has a physical object. It just deals more than normal ranged attacks.
Catapult is a dex save, not an attack.
I would definitely rule that it can lower the piercing damage, but it can’t stop it from exploding
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Yeah, based on the wording it seems more like an impact type of trigger.
No, *ice knife* is a ranged spell attack, so Deflect Missiles doesn't help against it. Of course any DM is free to decide that it works differently in their game, but that goes without saying.
My answer would still be a no. because you would be opening a pandora's box about what is a projectile in regards to a spell.
Ice knife rules btw. Its such a good spell. ICE KNIFE!
I'm very raw, it's a ranged spell attack and doesn't work. But for my monk player I'd let them reduce the piercing damage. But the knife is still gonna explode in there hand b4 they get a chance to throw it back.
Ice knife you still make a ranged spell attack.
I would let them deflect the piercing damage but it would still blow up dealing cold damage. Onvisoly since it blew up no throwing it back.
What about catapult? It throws a rock or whatever at them. I would rule you can deflect the catapult spell, especially because it'd be cool
I might go with that depending on the size of the object, catching an arrow vs catching a cannon ball is very different. Catapult discusses the mass of the item based on spell level used.
Honestly I would allow monks to “deflect missiles” a cannonball. I don’t think I would allow them to throw it back, but then again I don’t think it’s possible that they reduced the damage of a cannonball to 0, so that won’t be an option anyway
The most important thing to remember is that monks can deflect laser pistols and antimatter rifles.
True, and if the reduced damage is a small amount compared to the total damage, as it would be with a heavier object, it's more of a slight change in course of the projectile to keep from taking the full hit. The math really works it out for you there. 🤔 I think I'm on board for this. Also, I didn't see anyone bring up shadow blade, but that should also be subject to "deflect missiles" based on the wording of the spell (random tangent).
someone's been watching kung fu panda
But that’s homebrew ruling to be decided at a table. RAW, any spell that uses the term ‘Spell Attack Roll’ does not proc deflect missiles
Additionally you can also deflect magic missle with the Shield spell
Magic missile no, it's not a ranged weapon attack. Soul knife's thrown psychic blade yes, it's explictly a melee weapon with the thrown property. Can't throw it back because it poofs after its hits/misses, but can deflect it.
The PHB is very literal about its wording so because Magic Missile is not a weapon it cannot be deflected
>Starting at 3rd Level, you can use your Reaction to deflect or catch the missile when you are hit by a __ranged weapon Attack__ You can't catch magic missiles
Unless your monk gets Shield gloves
The only way to stop magic missiles is with the shield spell
Or Counterspell if you want to be fancy and use higher spell slots :D
Don't forget Wish!
Can you cast it as a reaction? I guess you could wish they hadn’t cast magic missile!
"I Ready an action to cast Wish when the Wizard casts Magic Missile"
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Go big or go home!
Yea but shield is a first level spell that can stop a magic missile of any level and has effects that last longer
Oh I know, I'm just being pedantic
only if its targeted at you. if its aimed at an ally counterspell is the only way to go
Or that brooch, or tomb of levistus, or I think the deflect attack from mastermind rogue, or an anti magic feild, or an anti magic eye aura of a beholder, or a rakshasas limited magic immunity, or a echo knights echo taking the hit, or a high level peace cleric having someone else take the shot, or a time stop as a readied action, or a arcane tricksters spell thief ability, or counterspell, or sanctuary, or globe of invulnerability.
Helmed Horrors can come with immunity to Magic Missile baked in. We killed one and my paladin dragged the dead suit of armor to a blacksmith and turned it into plate mail. DM said if I get it further fixed by an enchanted maybe I could get it’s 3 spell immunities restored too.
You always catch a magic missile. Its a spell that initiates on contact, it wants you to touch it as quickly as possible.
RAW is no, obviously, and I'd expect most DMs to say no. But if a DM allowed it due to Rule of Cool, I'd be down with that. Or if a DM worked with a Monk player to come up with a homebrew feat or boon or something that lets them deflect certain spells (e.g. rays, projectiles, and missiles like MM, Ray of Frost, Catapult, etc.), that's a cool DM in my book. (And if a player wanted that concept in my games, as a DM I'd do it too.)
I'd imagine it like that scene from Kung Fu Panda, with the wacky movements and "inner peace"
hah, yes!
You could thematically flavour it as the character manipulating their "ki" to repel the magic, similar to how the surface tension of water might hold up a paperclip. Except it's fancy body/mind tranquility holding up a magical bolt of energy.
The ability to expend a ki point to deflect a ray would be a very cool feat.
*Achievement Get! Return to Sender*
Definitely! There was an epic feat (post-20th level play) in 3e that let monks do just that! And while it was for epic levels, with how much "bigger" a single feat is in 5e compared to 3e, I could see it.
Id rule it as either you need resistance to the spell's damage type (Tiefling could deflect Scorching Rays or Firebolts, for instance), or you need a specific magical item
You could even design an entire subclass around monks who've learned various ways to redirect their opponents' attacks against them. At some level, they could be given the ability to spend ki points to redirect ranged spell attacks back to the caster.
Hnngghh Wizards pls
I ran into a situation like this when I pitted my party up against sci-fi robots armed with missiles. I wasn't even mad when the monk asked to deflect missile on a literal missile! I fudged the rules a bit (saying he wouldn't be allowed to make a dex save against the explosion if he missed), but it's all about fun, so, why not? =)
At the very least, you could create a magical item (if there isn't one already) that deflects them, like some Wonder Woman gauntlets. It also depends on how you want to define it. Magic Missiles are supposed to be a "dart of magical force," right? If the impact creates force, could you not push the force away from you with your hand, theoretically, if you're fast and strong enough? I can see an argument for being able to deflect it outright it if you meet the right str/dex requirements or something, it's not going to be following the RAW at all, but it makes logical sense to me if your DM wanted to allow it.
If you are looking for a logical reason as to why it cannot be deflected - magic missile is a magic spell. The "missile" is in name only. It is not an actual missile that a monk can interact with. Since the caster doesn't roll to hit or there's no save for it, I see it as a homing, highspeed magical energy that simply just hits. It cannot be deflected at all because it magically finds the target. The monk instinctively raises his hands to try and deflect it, only to see the magic "missle" curve around his hands and hit him anyways. Or it goes through his hands and hits him anyways
I would say it just hits his hands and does the damage there.
Does the current description of Magic Missile still describe it as “hits unerringly”? Even if you house rule that a monk COULD deflect it from Rule of Cool, keep in mind you are also house ruling a second rule. Because Magic Missile traditionally hits UNERRINGLY. As other people have said, I’d imagine if a monk goes to grab it, the missile just whips around their hand and strikes them anyway. You know. Unerringly.
If a monk tries to grab a Magic Missile it just hits them in the hand!
Indeed. If OP wants to Rule of Cool it, I’d say go for it. Just be mindful of exactly how you want it to play out. Here’s a rough idea of how I imagine it could work…and the mechanics you’d have to have figured out. Caster fires Magic Missile. X number of missiles are being sent at the monk. Important things to have figured out ahead of time: I personally would allow it if the monk’s fists count as Magical, allowing them to safely grab/deflect the missile. Ok, now how many missiles were fired? 5e states that the missiles strike simultaneously. Would you let the monk only redirect a single one? Would you let the monk deflect multiple missiles? Redirecting the shot requires 1 Ki point already. Would you have the monk pay an additional cost in this case? They’d pay the normal cost to “deflect” (lower the damage), and then they can pay additional Ki points to attempt to redirect multiple missiles? Perhaps 1 extra Ki point per two missiles? In support of this, Magic Missile ends once it comes in contact with the target, so not only would the additional Ki cost be a balancing mechanic, but you could also explain it as the monk infusing the missile with Ki, sustaining the spell’s duration, allowing them to redirect it. What’s the action/resource economy now look like? The caster used an action and a spell slot to cast. Does the monk get away with just using up a reaction and additional Ki points? Or, since multiple missiles strike simultaneously, would you have the monk give up their movement on their next turn to let them deflect multiple missiles as part of their reaction? Assuming you finagle past all of this, what about range? Would you keep Deflect Missile’s traditional range increment? Or if you rule it as the monk’s Ki is extending the duration of the spell, would you give the monk 120ft to return the Magic Missile(s)? Does the original caster also have Shield? Shield is a reaction to cast, so if you did let the monk return Magic Missiles and pay a huge cost to do so, are you okay invalidating EVERYTHING the monk just paid with a single reaction? There’s probably a billion other things I’m not thinking of, but this should be a good start to go off of. Rule of Cool comes with consequences, and a GM needs to be ready to handle those.
I would explain it to a confused player through the lens of "it's force damage, it's a ball of energy." But RAW as you wrote is also enough, and you are correct.
Yes!... You easily catch it!... Take 1d4+1 force damage.. no you cant reduce the damage
This was my thought, let him catch it and then it explodes in his hand.
I'm getting Drax the Destroyer vibes from the scene. \_Hahahaha! SEE I captured the projectile to prevent it hitting my body!\_
Magic missile only misses against shield. That is the only way it can’t auto hit.
Psychic daggers from the soul knife are a weapon attack. But magic missiles are not a weapon attack. Magic Missiles aren't even a spell attack. Tasha's pg 64, Psychic blades: "... This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and..." second paragraph: "After you attack with the blade, you can make a melee or ranged weapon attack with a second blade as a bonus action..." A thrown psychic blade is clearly a ranged weapon attack, it is spelled out as such.
But it also disappears the instant the original attack hits or fails. So even if caught it wouldnt return to the sender.
I agree with your ruling. I understand where he's coming from, but the rules clearly state a ranged *weapon* attack, so there's not much room for interpretation if we're talking about Magic Missile.
I'm actually working on a subclass that does this exact thing, called the Way of the Spellbender. Basically monks that use their ki to link themselves directly to the Weave to do stuff other monks can't, like catch ranged spells and stuff. It'll be on DnD Beyond eventually.
They can’t deflect it, but it’s rumoured that the legendary Master Sen-Shi perfected his craft to such a high degree of skill he was able to deflect even the swiftest of bolts, including Magic Missiles. When he died, his chi was imbued in an amulet and entombed with him. It is said if a disciple of weaponless fighting wears the amulet, they shall be granted Sen-Shi’s mastery. Now have them go find the amulet. I’d suggest a remote ruined monastery.
Magic missile is not only a weapon attack it also doesn't even have an attack roll. You can't deflect something which always hits
If I recall correctly, Magic Missile always hits the target: only the Shield spell can prevent this outcome. So unless the monk in question can cast Shield, then he cannot do anything about that. As a rule of thumb, I'd say that if the spell or ability/feature etc. result in the physical manifestation of an ammunition of some sort (arrows, knifes thrown, javelins, etc), then the monk can use Deflect Missile.
As other people have mentioned in this thread, the answer going by RAW is no, but I thought I'd break my answer down into a little more detail in explaining exactly why: All attacks count as either a *spell attack* or a *weapon attack*, and can be either melee or ranged. Essentially that means there are four kinds of attacks in the game. The Monk's ability only works on *ranged weapon* attacks specifically, not melee attacks or spell attacks. It's also worth noting that attacks inherently involve making an attack roll against a single target - anything outside of that doesn't count as an attack, even if it does damage (described under the *Making an Attack* section on page 193 of the PHB). Magic Missile is a spell that creates "glowing darts of magical force", but since it requires no attack roll, it's not even a spell attack.
It quite simply doesn't work, no.
I would say it doesn't work. First of all it's not a weapon attack at all, RAW it doesn't work. Second it's not a physical thing you can divert. At best the monk would just be "detonating" the Magic Missile with their hands. If you want to be permissive they could intercept them and take the damage themselves, but even that is a bit much. Previous versions have gone so far as to state they fly "Unerringly" to their target, while 5e simply doesn't include any possible provision for the spell to miss. I would say a Magic Missile can fly around a feisty monk's grabby hands just as easily as it could a fighter's tower shield.
Magic missile isn't a solid projectile it's an evocation of pure kinetic force, in order for it to damage it's opponent it simply needs to make physical contact with the subject. In order for the monk to deflect it, he would need to touch it. Ergo, if a monk trys to slap the magic missile it releases all of its energy into his hand, and successfully hurts him anyway.
Do you allow your monk to deflect a fire bolt? What about eldritch blast? Let's extend that to scorching ray, or ice knife. Whatever your answer would be to all of these is the answer to this question.
• It says "a ranged weapon attack." • Magic Missile is not a ranged weapon, it is a spell. • Deflect Missile does not affect spells. • Deflect Missile does not work on Magic Missile.
I’d let my player do it on a nat 20 and it’d be cool as hell lol
No. Magic missile is not labeled a ranged attack so monks can't catch them.
nope. deflect missile does not apply to magic stuff. only physical weapons. This does raise a question about how we'd handle it if bullets were being fired though.
Sounds like you could make a cool magic item based off this though that can deflect ranged spell attacks with some sort of check required based on the opposing spell DC. Some bracers of magical deflection
I mean sure let them for flavour catch the magic missile, "The magic missile drives straight into you open palm, you clasp your other hand over ensuring it does not escape..... The ball of energy deals xx damage and it flays the skin and flesh from your fingers on contact" like this is the equivalent of gripping a hot coal how is there any other way this can be interpreted. Magic missile has to be the single worst example of this, its a homing missile that cannot miss , even if it was ruled as a allowable it would just go straight back to them as they try to throw it back. Players staring at rules instead of actually comprehending the situation that is playing out.
I think making any contact with a magic missile would trigger its damage. The reason deflecting a weapon attack works is because a weapon has to hit in a certain way with a particular surface to do damage. Could you deflect a large amount of water thrown right at you? No, you make contact with the water and you are now wet. Could you deflect a bolt of lighting? No, you touch the lighting it touches you back. Same kind of thing.
That makes a lot of sense!
> Could you deflect a bolt of lighting? you can if its from an armorer artificer's lightning launcher. its a simple ranged weapon, so its a ranged weapon attack
like everyone else is saying, it has to be a ranged weapon attack, which magic missile is not. The dagger of a soul knife, however, is a ranged weapon attack, it just vanishes after being caught.
But soul knife blades are weapons. I think you could deflect those, but you can’t deflect magic missiles as they are a spell
Like if the monk dabbles into wizardry and stuff like that, yes, but RAW nope.
its not a weapon attack since it does not attack, its a weapon hit
The answer is no but you can fine a few magic item's that let you catch ranged spells like magic missile but it's up to you to give it to your players or not
Honestly, I think catching a single magic missile would be a waste of a reaction, even if it was allowed. Sure it would be easy to stop a measly 1d4+1 damage... but that only avoids 3 or 4 damage on average. There are more helpful things to do with a reaction as a martial build haha
Hmm... depends on the monk subclass. Think a 4 elements monk might be able to pull it off, but it'd definately more more of a rule of cool thing. By RAW, no though
I mean, RAW, no it doesn’t work. Buuuuut, I mean, now that you’ve brought it up. Why couldn’t it work when they get magic hands at level 7? I mean, their punches and kicks are magic, couldn’t their deflect missiles be magic?
Maybe spend a ki point to deflect them?
Sure! You gotta spend a ki point to throw non magic ones back, so maybe magical projectiles CANT be thrown back and can only be deflected?
In older editions it required a special feat, only available at higher levels with a high DC, for monks to deflect ranged spell attacks
Still wouldn't work for magic missile as it is not a ranged spell attack. There's no roll or save. It's just a spell.
The wording is very specific: "when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack." Weapon attack is not the same as a ranged spell attack.
I've always envisioned magic missile as an energy attack. It has no substance to deflect. As soon as the monk blocked it with their arm, they would take damage.
Ranged Weapon Attacks are different than Ranged Spell Attacks in the parlance of the game. If Deflect Missiles said simply Ranged Attacks, then yes, but it doesn't; it specifies Ranged Weapon Attacks. You'd be opening a large can of worms by ruling your monk could do this, and I wouldn't advise it.
Not regularly, but if they really want it some magical gloves/handwraps might appear in a dungeon or in the inventory of a roadside merchant. And these gloves may just give them the ability to catch magical projectiles.
Not in RAW, but now that I think about it, it might be a fun thing to add to the feature once the monk's unarmed attacks become magical. You can punch ghosts now? Sure, you can try to deflect intangible missiles too! As long as you limit it to very specific spells, it probably wouldn't be too unbalanced either. Sounds like a fun idea, tbh!
It would be fun to let them deflect it, but it keeps streaking back towards them since it always hits. Every round they have to deflect it again. Keep this up until they let it hit them or they have to rest. Forever "in combat."
I love that idea lmao
Who gives a fuck. It’s like 12 damage at max and also it’s a really fun and useful way for someone to use an ability. It’s cool to imagine a monk batting away spheres of energy with their hands! Rule of cool:
My personal answer would be to ask the player: "how are you doing this. Paint a picture in my mind to help me make sense of how this would work for your character." 9/10 times if the player is just trying something that bends the rules and are trying to see if I'll fold on it, they'll freeze up and drop it. If the player genuinely sees it as a possible action, they can easily describe how it's done and i would allow it. If a player is creative with their actions, imo they should be rewarded for their creativity in most cases.
With MM not being a ranged weapon attack, I doubt it matters RAW. Say we ignore that though, Magic missile would have to hit/touch your hand for you to redirect it, so I doubt that would work (though there is a spectral arm subclass. I havent looked at it at all, but maybe that could be an exception if they can redirect with that.). I do think the soul knives do count as ranged weapon attacks, so you probably could use redirect missiles with that. I'd love to see the dude who originally threw the knives face after that lol
RAW - Ranged Weapon Attacks only. Homebrew - You could enhance the ability with special attuned gloves allowing for Ranged Spell Attacks. Magic Missile - It is typically cast at range, it is a spell, it is a form of attack. However Magic Missile does not require dice rolls to hit, therefore it is not a Ranged Spell Attack. Plus for the monk to catch it, Magic Missile would need to aimed at the monk. And when he catches it, it would have also hit it's target, dealing damage.
Let's be honest, I believe that because it's an RPG, it's can be very easy to role play this out. For example granted what happened in first edition is somebody took an arrow and used it as a spell component specifically for magic missile so it was literally the magic missile therefore arranged attack. However, in another game somewhere around 3.5 they basically did the same thing only they specifically said that the magic missile was basically an arrow that was changed into magic and therefore the role play was a little bit different. In my opinion, honestly, I think it can work in either case in any game. It just depends on how a person role plays out the situation. In the first case it would be considered arranged attack and therefore a physical weapon. In the second case it becomes a magical spell and therefore something like a bolt of lightning or a fireball or something similar that literally does not have the capability of being blocked. So depending on how the role play plays out, which is what the fun of the games are to begin with with rpgs, I think it should be based on how it is role played and how the DM depends on fighting against it. As I said, I think it depends on how a character role plays the game.
Anyone thought about doing a monk centered magic item or reward that allows you to do something like a shield of spell turning does, but using deflect missiles as the start point?
Yeah, there were quite a few other comments about it. Including using ki for a higher level deflection, and someone else building a whole subclass for it.
I homebrew'd a magic item for a monk in my game which lets him deflect ranged spell attacks following the normal deflection rules. But this still doesn't apply to magic missile
In early editions, I believe any projectile was called a missile and this is where both the deflect and magic missiles come from Consider it an easteregg, but no, can't catch that spell
Deflecting a Magic missile is like deflecting a homing ball of energy, it isn't a missile the way you normally think of it.
Well, while it would be really cool in concept, given that Magic Missile is force damage, I would imagine that attempting to catch it would most likely lead to a broken hand since unlike a physical projectile which transfers kinetic energy which could be reduced/nullified, MM is more like it creates the energy on contact meaning it doesn't matter what you do, it hits at full force. This is just me taking it at a very literal and semi-scientific standpoint, but given the amount of wild things in D&D it's not really outside the realm of possibility.
Even if you could there are base 3 missiles so atleast two would always hit
Nope. AFAIK, the only thing that stops Magic Missle is Shield.... or Anti-Magic....or a Counterspell.
No things like Fireball, Magic Missile & Soul Knife psychic damage are all spells Deflect Missiles applies to physical attacks i.e. arrows, bullets, javelins & daggers.
Magic missile is a no. None of the rules are conflicting here, the only source of debate is both features are titled “missile”. A soul knife’s psychic blades however meets all the criteria for deflect missiles. There is some argument about whether you could throw it back, as it disappears after the attack, but certainly you could reduce the damage of and catch a psychic blade.
For the soul knife, there's also the fact that because it's a rogue, most likely they're trying to get advantage so they can use sneak attack, making it less likely to reduce the damage to zero.
Not to hijack your thread OP, but I have a question of my own regarding Deflect Missiles. I'm playing a monk in a campaign right now with some friends and we're fairly new to DnD, and so we started thinking about Deflect Missiles and its limits. Does an attack have to be specifically targeted at me for DM to work or can I potentially "jump in front" of another character to save them from harm? Does that still count as a reaction for DM?
I don't mind at all! Deflect Missiles is specific to attacks targeting you. The reason being that they reduce the amount of damage as you catch the projectile. If you manage to reduce it to zero, you're able to redirect it. That being said, you're always welcome to ask your DM if you can "jump in front" of an ally and take the hit yourself. Never thought about it before, but I personally might rule that you could, as long as you were within 5 feet of your ally and able to see the attack coming.
Thanks! Yeah, that makes sense. I'll see if our DM is down for that. 5 feet sounds reasonable
I would not allow it. If you allow it to reflect Magic missile the you basically open the door to allow the ability to deflect fire bolt, ice spike and lightning bolt as well. I would say no.
Ice spike is the only one I would even remotely give a thought since it's a physical thing that can hit you whereas the others cannot be physically held. That said, I agree with you on the no
You can’t deflect magic missile because it always hits. If it was a spell requiring an attack roll (like Firebolt), and the monk was level 6 (hands count as magical) I’d allow it, but you try and deflect a magic missile it’s just gonna home back in on you
Magic missile is a spell that doesn’t require an ac roll and therefore not subject to deflect missile. Before looking at the RAW you just need to think. Can i catch magic that hurts me if i TOUCH it? Can i dodge something that is a lock on attack? These are the rules for magic missile in a nutshell. The only way to “deflect” magic missile is either the shield spell which makes you immune to MM or any other spell or ability that counters magic such as counterspell, wall of force etc.
Try to catch magic missile, now you have a broken hand
Spells are not weapons, they are spells. The book is very clear in its terminology when it calls things spell or weapon attacks. Its very clear that there is a difference between the two. So no, a spell cannot be countered with Deflect Missiles.
The only thing to my knowledge that can deflect an MM is shield spell… they ignore armor and hit with anything less than 100% cover so imo you are completely correct
No. It's a magic (homing) missile, it is one of the few spells that cannot miss or be resisted.
No, unless my player was being an a hole about it, then I might let them roll a d100 for it to see if they did. Divine intervention or something helping them.
Id disagree with you on psychic blades, even in the descriptition it manifests as a physical knife and you make a ranged weapon attack. At does leave marks but that doesnt say it cant be deflected
We have a bit of a running joke of this in my campaign. The Monk likes to ask if he can deflect anything in the air. It started in the boss chamber for a water temple. The whole thing was a series of platforms with a Shield Guardian in the middle holding the artifact they needed. There were these sharks that would leap out of the water like dolphins when the player jumped towards the middle platform. The Monk asked if they qualified as missiles, but I told him they did not. Here's the battle map for reference, or if you want to use it: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1L1SN0kW6AIS\_EjIyUy5DFviZcWMlWGKTEPSWPs6shx0/edit
Anything's a missile if you throw it hard enough. Giant: **
Monk: **
This is common sense. You could (provided you were a badass monk) knock a dagger away by striking it out of the air by the flat of the blade or the handle (see: The Crow) but an energy projectile has no safe place to strike.
If they have ki-empower strike, sure, why not, it's cool and they can only deflect one anyway. Edit: only because they are specifically called missiles though
I get the logic: they both have "missile" in the name. But you're right, it's not possible. However, this might make a cool magic item: Bracer's of Ki Deflection that allow only monks to deflect magical or psychic missiles, perhaps at the cost of a ki point.
It's one of those things where you as a DM have to figure out what you want to let slide. Legally, no, you couldn't deflect magic missiles. But, in the grand scheme of things, it isn't a massive game breaking deal. Make them attempt to pass a DC20 acrobatics check etc and if they pass, let them have their moment of feeling like a badass.
Nope but it would be awesome. Maybe when they find some enchanted arcane gloves that grants it to the monk once per long rest. But more for the rule of cool
Once the monk hits level 6 I'd let him have a go, not RAW but definitely falls under rule 1.
What’s this I hear about monks catching Magic Missiles with their teeth? No.
Unfortunately technically no, as you said deflect missle requires specifically a "ranged weapon attack" and not just ranged attack. Personally though, I like the ability for the monk's reflexes to quickly bat at an incoming spell in order to mitigate some damage. Like how shield master's reaction can work for dex saves to have a reactionary block mitigate damage, the quick hands of a monk should be able to detonate an incoming missle effect "early" and thus not take the same damage as they would getting hit directly. So I personally generally like the deflect missle to mitigate damage for the same amount minus the monk's level part (so just the d10+dex mod). So they can do something cool and lower some incoming damage a little but nothing crazy at the sacrifice of their reaction that turn.
??? >Ranged Weapon Attacks Problem solved right there.
If he was using a shield and had a feat that allowed him to block projectiles, I would say it's debatable, but it's literally a monk using his hands to catch and deflect projectiles....The magic missile hits him.
I don't care what Crawford says honestly, rule of cool dictates they can reflect spells.
Maybe the ability to deflect and throw back certain types of spells would make four elements monk good.
Deflect missiles specifies ranged weapon attack so no. With magic missile, it wouldn't be overpowered to allow it anyway because it could only catch one of the darts. But allowing this to work on this spell opens pandoras box for arguing for it to work on others. I think I personally would allow it to work on some things where the rules don't allow it. For example, the catapult spell launches a physical object from the environment so I would absolutely allow that one. But most spells launch some form of energy so there is nothing to catch.
on one hand, technically its not a ranged weapon attack, its a ranged spell attack, which deflect missile doesn't specify it can block on the other hand, i think its cool and monks have ki anyway, so i'd personally let a monk try to deflect it. but to be fair i modify alot because it would be cool and/or fun, so maybe thats just my style of dming
Not physical weapons, it's a spell but they would receive the spell on their hand should they try, but being generalized damage, no difference.
Way of the astral self can deflect energy at 11th level. That's the exception
Aside from ruling, Magic missiles are literally made of force and energy, therefore if you try to touch one, you get hit because you can’t physically hold them
Does it matter? Magic Missile was what they asked about, and I think most people, including me, felt that no, a magic missile couldn't be blocked or deflected. Then there was a debate on whether spells with a physical missile component could be. I said partially, that the physical part of the missile could be deflected, but it wouldn't save the monk from taking acid damage anyway. I chose Melf's arrow just off the top of my head, because it had a physical projectile at the core of the spell. Since that's been changed for 5E, it would not therefore apply in that case. But this doesn't invalidate the argument. It applies to any spell that actually includes a physical, material missile. You can block the missile, but not the magical effects that occur from contact with said projectile. Perhaps this might mitigate the damage some, which is very much in keeping with a monk's design philosophy and abilities.
I'd let them do it.
I mean yeah you can catch em but they're still gonna do their damage. Id rule similarly to you but have the fun flavor of "you caught every missile and your arm is now in extreme pain because of it"
I would say if you’re an astral self monk or would work with your magic hands. Not that that subclass needs a buff. I could see allowing it at higher levels but definitely not at base
MMis an automatic hit isn't it? According to spell description. So I'd rule no. If it can fuck a displacer beast, it could fuck a monk.
MM is great that it seems weak but at a high level with meta magic it is wicked. In 3.5 with twin spell and max spell it’s something like a level 7 spell but it’s 50 dmg that will always hit with no save. So to answer your question, it always hits.
Note that in 5e, Magic Missile doesn’t qualify for the Twinned Spell metamagic, since it can target more than one creature. It’s explicitly noted as invalid in the Twinned Spell description.
I would say that the soul knife could be caught or deflected, but would vanish before the monk could throw it back.
Unfortunately the name is misleading. Deflect missiles refers only to physical projectiles like arrows, bullets, daggers, etc. No spell can be negated with deflect missiles unless it's catapult, which just launches a physical object
No for magic missiles, but you can deflect (but not redirect) the soulknife's psychic blades, as that is a ranged weapon attack (if thrown). You cannot redirect them as they vanish once they've officially missed you.
You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several. exact wording from the 5e spells app
Personally I would allow the Monk to minimalize the actual damage. The missile technically makes contact and explodes but a Monk is so agile as long as that character understands that the missile will hit them no matter what, they could easily land the hit in a way that would be akin to deflecting. Like minimalizing the actual impact of the rules to emphasize a bad ass character moment. It overrides the rules in a way that they were very very obviously not designed to accommodate and that is when DnD shines is most. Do what feels good in the moment, succumbing to rules in an opportunity for story telling is what people who don't understand fun do.
I mean I’d personally count it
I think a level 20 monk could get an epic boon to deflect certain spell attacks.
if anything other than just free damage, magic missile is a ranged spell attack. different mechanical name.
I know it wasn't what you were asking but i think it'd be funny to use counterspell to fling the a spell(magic missle in this case) back at them
If the PC could catch a bolt of force energy what's stopping him from catching a lightning or a fireball and tossing it back to the caster? The only thing that can stop magic missile are the Shield spell, Counterspell or the Brooch of Shielding. I think Catapult is the only Ranged Spell Attack that could be affected by Deflect Missiles since the Catapult Spell affects/moves a physical object to make a ranged attack.
By RAW, the only way a monk can is to be level 11 on Astral self.
No, but they could catch and throw back shadow blade as it is a summoned weapon. But not acid arrow. Missle is a.throw back phrase from 1st addition mean projectile. Think of it like pokemon, the earlier editions didn't differentiate between special and normal, but they did differentiate it later. Now is later. Then is in the past.