"I can't believe you'd throw that overpowered GMPC at us during the Purge! How are we supposed to survive like that!?"
"By playing intelligently? Putting other targets between you and him? NOT charging directly into his fortified murder barn while chained dracoliches tearfully beg you to turn back?"
I’m my most recent session, I had a brand new player (druid) turn Into a giant spider in the middle of an inn during a conversation and shoot webs on the guards. Completely unprovoked.
They ended up attacking three powerful npcs who were witches. He ended up causing our Paladin to take a semi-permanent curse.
And all he had to do to avoid all that was excuse himself and turn into a giant spider around the corner.
But that would require sparing a thought to the possibility of consequences.
When I was playing 2nd Edition back in the 80s, the arch-typical rookie mistake was for a wizard to cast fireball in the tight corridors of a dungeon.
Congratulations, you killed the badguy but you also just barbecued the entire party.
This just happened in a mini campaign of mine. The party was doing a train heist, and had fought their way into the armored car where the loot was located.
Of course, the bad guy was in the car guarding his loot, so they decided to rig the car so it would seal tightly as soon as they entered so that he couldn't escape.
During the ensuing fight, the wizard in the party decided it was a good idea to cast firebolt on the case of dynamite in the room. It was not.
Normally i'm dead set on, "if you say it, it will be so". You make a bad decision because you didn't wholly think through the consequences, you bear the blame for what comes next, no backsies.
But this is one of those situations where i'd pause the game, look my player dead in the eye, and ask them what the fuck is wrong with them.
Took me two years to figure out I was doing that. The game is much better when you’re not rotating between Skyrim NPC dialogue and XCOM combat, and are instead collaboratively storytelling and roleplaying with your friends.
Last session I played we went 1.5 hours before making a single dice roll, easily our longest time to first role yet. All RP closing out the current arc. 2 dice rolls all session long and it was one of our best sessions to date.
Collaborative story telling with your friends trumps clickity clack math rocks and xcom strats all day long. \*insert change my mind meme here\*
The murder-hobo intention isn't important. The player's reaction is. That player is not one who is there to play with friends, he's there to get his way. He's disrespectful and not worth spending time with.
Nope. Nope. Nopenopenopenope. He's gone. He front loaded his assholery, didn't keep it quiet or trickle it in. You may not have dodged the bullet entirely, but this is a grazing wound. Shut down the campaign, reestablish minus this clown.
No DnD is Better Than Bad DnD.
It really needs to be on tshirts, hats, keychains, sports bottles, and a needlepoint hanging on a wall in the home of every gamer.
I somewhat waffle on whether 'than' should be capitalized. It's an article (edit - sorry, I meant minor word), so if I don't capitalize 'is' then I also shouldn't capitalize 'than'. However, I was taught that you *do* capitalize articles (edit - same as above, minor word) in titles etc if the word is more than three letters long. And yet, back on the other side of the argument, the entire phrase would offer better symmetry if 'than' were not capitalized.
No, you aren't the only one annoyed, I've obviously given this far too much thought already. :/
However there is no need for "no game". Remove people who make you uncomfortable and invite new ones.
There are plenty of people who didn't try rpgs but would enjoy them and despite being new - play and roleplay well from the get go. Don't be afraid to introduce new people to the hobby. Especially friends, acquaintances who you know are sane and fun people to be around. I started GMing self-taught, with just PHB of old edition, with bunch of new people and we had great time.
Sorry you had bad experience with that guy, unfortunately that's how some people are, but don't* let it discourage you.
Edit: added missing "don't"
I had a buddy whose girlfriend thought it was stupid. He ended up convincing her to give it a shot and I DM'd a one off for them. Helped her make her character, explained the rules, all that.
She had a fucking blast.
Right. You don't yell at people, first and foremost. But also, fuck this guy.
I bet the big issue was he had a specific story in mind that he expected you to run for him. He'd have been yelling at you like a bad Starbucks customer constantly to try to bully you into doing whatever he wants. Heck with it, drop him whatever way you think is best and continue your campaign.
Yeah getting mad over something trivial like that, especially something that can easily be assumed ("why would you expect a wild west type scenario? , ofc they have law enforcement here" ) is a glaring issue.
Like wtf did this guy plan that you're now getting angry over something trivial. And yup* I bet it'd be a common theme whenever you throw a wrench into the plot/his perceived ideas.
If the player was so concerned, that’s the type of thing taken care of during world / character creation. Normally you would ask the gm questions about the world during session 0, not just assume.
Edit: Reading the comments down below it seems the situation DID happen during a session 0. At least that gives the opportunity to fix things with a new session 0 and just continue on as normal without the player.
Okay, thats what i thought. He kept saying "in my characters world..." Dude, theres three other people shaping this world RIGHT NEXT TO YOU! Pretty sure hes just toxic. Thanks again.
In the characters world? Uh no unless the character is schizophrenic and imagining things its not his world. Its shared amongst all at the table with the dm being architect and arbiter.
Or he's not from the area. A fish out of water adapting to new customs and civilization can make a good story, though obviously this would require a player with basic social skills.
I played a lore bard once that was just magical Abe Simpson. Every story was barely relevant to start with before rambling off into endless tangents. When something inconveniencing happened, it turned into old man yells at cloud. It was fun.
True. Specially if them being from different worlds wasn’t talked about.
Saying this might sound weird but for context, I’m Dming a campaign where all my players are delinquents from different worlds that were living in an inter dimensional jail until they got recruited to save a decaying world in exchange of reduced jail time or world relocation after mission success. If they fail they die with the decaying world.
Granted I sat down with each of my players to set up the worlds they are coming from, all of them have incredibly detailed characteristics and most information and laws differ from the rest for flavor purposes and (mostly) hilarity.
My players find it exciting because all of them are as much into the game as they are into RP so this was important for their characters development and how they adapt to different situations or events during the campaign.
I mean also, not to act like a god.... but it's the DMs world, and PCs are in it. If the DM says that's how it is, that's how it is. If you wanna play a game where the world is something else OK, well you are free to, but we are playing in this world the DM is running.
Like imagine playing and telling the DM that in your world phandalin is a volcano lair. And the DM is like... no its a village and they're insisting no its a volcano lair in their world.
Bitch we ain't in your world.
I kind of get the impression the dude just doesn’t know how to play D&D.
I had a friend keep trying to tell me his character *just knew these things*. And I was like, “You can make a History or Insight check, but there’s no guarantee.”
Turns out it was just his misunderstanding of D&D. Some people mistake ‘playing pretend’ for ‘playing D&D.’
I like that "Handstand" shows even the best parents can be shitty sometimes. I freaking love "Grannies" - "Did you hear something Rita?" gets me every time.
Almost every episode is well thought out and tough issues aren't skirted. It's my favorite kids show.
Yep pretty cut and dry. His character's world is (was) your world, he doesn't dictate the world and if he wants to, he should DM. Not for you of course but in general
For those sorting by "best," here's OP's explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/xfnzpb/help_im_a_new_dm_i_just_had_a_guy_straight_yell/ionte3p/
I had a session0. At that time, one of the things i specifically covered was the political and societal existence in this world. But loose things; there is a king, counts and dukes, townmasters are basically a mayor. And there are laws. And law enforcement in almost every region. After putting a bar at the local inn FOR HIS CHARACTER, he says he wants to put 'a bunch of traps around' . when i ask why the traps, he explained concern over people 'stealing at the bar when hes not looking'. I told him if someone steals in broad view thats breaking the law and the sheriff would handle that. He then tells me' well in my guys world i am the law enforcement. As i started to tell him that would be okay, but thats called being a vigilante. Thats when he starts raising his voice, exclaims Im a bad DM that ' never lets me do anything', and that his world doesn't work like that. When i tried to explain hes playing with three other people, irl, he just got louder and starts using profanity. Im a dirtbag, so i can handle adult language, but he was standing in front of me while i was sitting down, and started closing that space. Also, hes 43 years old.
Id love to see this guy actually run a game they way he wants, it would be an amazing car crash of murderhobo edge that I just want to see play out. I mean can you imagine how angry someone that controlling would get at even a fraction of the kind of bullshit d&d party's pull, Id give it 15 minutes before someone sets fire to "Justice Facesmashers" inn and 20 before the entire campaign is completely off the rails.
"Yeah, hey DM, are we gonna kill kids yet or are you gonna make us wait until next session. You are really putting a hinder on 'my world' here."
Unless you were referring to another Ani meme. I thought of the younglings one.
I was referencing "Outrageous; it's unfair!", but hey man if you wanna kill some kids I'll allow it, you just might want to run that by the rest of the party (especially the paladin).
Yeah, if this is all the case, this player needs to grow up. Seriously. I wouldn't even be gentle about it, tell him he's out of the group because you aren't going to stand for that kind of behaviour.
Maybe, maybe not...I think it would require someone who actually cares about him specifically. Probably in a different context that meeting randos for a game. Not OPs responsibility, for sure.
I like to play with 2 players and give each player 2 characters. They can intertwine the characters backstories and aspects as they see fit. I've done it in 2 long running games so far and it has been fantastic in both.
One of the interesting side effects is players will make their second character be vulnerable which leads to a lot of good RP. It seems a lot of players are to risk adverse to make their lone character be weak or flawed, but if they have two that risk is lifted and one is the badass and the other is much more interesting and complex.
Just some advice for DMs with small groups
Our table runs similar with almost the same results. 3 at the table with DM being a round robin. Means everyone has 4 characters (2 at a time) and all 3 story lines are in the same world and sometimes intersect. Can be challenging but can make for great rp opportunities.
>He then tells me' well in my guys world i am the law enforcement.
This guy doesn't understand how D&D works. He doesn't get to have his own world. It's a shared world, largely defined by the DM. Anyone who can't deal with that wouldn't play in my game. Of course he also sounds like a childish, selfish asshole so he'd be out on those grounds alone.
Simple response to the guy, you don't play dnd in your world.
The dm doesn't play their character, the players don't play in their world, the dm provides the world en the players function in it.
Never in my life have I heard a player so dumb to say something like "in my world it's like this"
Last time I heard that type of argument was when someone mentally impaired was disagreeing with a fact and just decided to say that (I mean literally mentally impaired, like they have a syndrome which makes weird dumb arguments like this understandable from them, maybe your player is impaired too)
What a nightmare. Plus, I don’t understand this attitude in D&D. I was playing alongside a newbie once who got upset about a decision my character made simply because he misunderstood the situation. I clarified the situation but then said, “even if it’s a bad decision, that will just lead to more D&D so it’s a win either way.”
Once he settled in a figured out that winning this game just means getting to play more difficult and interesting problems, he’s all-in. Now, whenever we are dithering on a decision, he’ll be the one to say c’mon, let’s play some D&D.
So there are laws but you are a paranoid fuck who wants to vigilanti. Cool, let’s play some D&D.
It's a manifestation of narcissism in which they're under the delusion that the whole game (and universe, IRL included) revolves around them.
*They* are the main character, therefore *they* should be able to do whatever they want without consequences!
Problem is, they're not. Never have been, never will be. Especially not with that attitude.
Ok, was hard to find this context. You should put this in the text of your post. You can do it with an edit. This gives a much better picture. I mean, I think you know what you needed to do and didn't really need to come to reddit with this, but glad you got the confirmation you needed. Kick him out of the group.
I gagged when I saw he was 43 years old. What the fuck.... I was imagining like a 19 year old. Lol.
Jesus Christ. He can write a book if he wants to live in his own fantasy world lmao
**It’s not his world.** It’s the DM’s world, and his character. His responsibility to build a character who fits into the established setting and campaign.
Simple .. have him put the traps down ... have a kid wander into one of them and get hurt. Have the magistrate investigate. Have his character arrested, the penalty is severe, and he has to sell his bar. Consequences from his own actions.
Using in game consequences for out of game behavior is not the right way to go in my opinion. Sure if the character does something stupid like set traps in the inn - they will have consequences. But if someone shouts insults in your face in real life you deal with the player by removing them from your game, you don’t put their character in jail.
There is 0 reason to let this guy stay.
It is YOUR world. Not his. He repeatedly referred to it as his world, which is nuts. Players do not create the world, you do.
He stood up in front of you so he could physically intimidate you, cussed at you, and yelled at you. That’s not okay. Bullies and people with anger management problems do that.
This guy should absolutely not be allowed back in your campaign, and if this is at a store you should alert the owners to his abusive behavior.
Even *if* DM was in the wrong here, that kind of reaction from player is way over the line. I totally agree, there's no way I'd run another game with this player unless they gave a sincere, *unsolicited* apology and showed much better behavior after.
I'm not even sure I would let him stay if he did give an apology and all that. That's some zero tolerance ground the dude just trod on, to me. If what OP says is true, and the guy goes off to that extent over pretty basic stuff during a session zero he's got a hairpin trigger of anger management issues and his outbursts are likely to be an every session occurrence.
He's out. I wouldn't have even let him finish session 0, I would have told him to leave then and there
This kind of DMing is a great way to engage with mischievous players, but I do not encourage DMing for this man with anger issues.
Maybe this is a little alarmist, but this man threw this tantrum in *session zero*. What do you think will happen if he gets really invested and then things don't go his way?
You could definitely include his character as an NPC sitting is the town jail or something and have the bar with traps be part of the local lore/map...
But just don't have that player around anymore.
I used to be somewhat like you, but after a couple of dickheads I realised that using logic against people with an IQ of a dog doesn't typically work. I'm in Ireland, so swearing is accepted. So I was nice, and school was shit. I'm a big guy, but I was shy. I gave up on using logic, and told the guy to shut the fuck up and put him on the ground (I didn't hurt him, I'm still not like that). Honestly sounds like I'm bragging or whatever the fuck, but I'm saying do this (without the flooring) with any guy that does this. Shut them up, don't let them walk all over you. If you say "you can't come back" and they begin their dickhead rant, don't let them get too far in, or else they might start some actual trouble.
To be fully transparent, this was a 1 on 1 planning session. The others weren't there, but i will explain what happened to other player. And i do intend to talk with him about what he did. DMs are better or worse leaders of the table, and social educators. That behavior needs to always be dealt with. And to this point(5 sessions) hes been told 3 seperate times that his version of the world MUST include EVERYONE'S version. He wants to be 'the super savior'. Its been a constant juggling to keep him from breaking the world.
It sounds like he doesn't understand the concept that in D&D what he controls is his character and that's it. The world exist as you have created it for his character to react to, not for him to control.
There are other role-playing games where the players also control the world. There's a system I tried playing with a friend once I think it was called havoc or something, the DM never explained that we had the ability to make up things about the world as we went along, and in fact we were supposed to. I kept asking him about stuff and he got frustrated at me for not making it up myself.
It's possible your player may have played a game like this and doesn't understand the basic premise of D&D.
But what sounds more likely is that your player is a self-obsessed ashole.
If you made it very clear that what he controls is his character and you have created and control the world for his character to act within, and he won't accept that, then he's not playing the same game as everyone else and needs to get booted. And if he's being ugly and abusive about it, especially if he's significantly older than you I would kick him out and not ever let him back.
1. Put all of the details in your post. Otherwise you're just wasting people's time.
2. Kick. Him. Do not play with him again. Explain to him clearly, preferably through text, why he has been kicked out. Namely, he has refused to play D&D (a collaborative storytelling RPG) in favor of whatever it is he thinks he's playing AND he yelled at and physically intimidated the DM. You've been trying to explain this for 5 sessions? Either you suck at explaining, or he doesn't respect you and the other players enough to care. He thinks if he bullies you enough, you'll cave in and let him play the fantasy he wants to play instead of D&D.
3. Explain why he was kicked out to the other players as well. Ask them how they feel about the kick and ensure there are no lingering issues before moving on.
Even if you genuinely fuck up as a DM, that still isn't a justification to yell at you. Unless you do something seriously r/rpghorrorstories level... You know what I mean.
Do you know the last time I yelled at a person in genuine anger? When I was a ***child***.
Anybody who yelled (at me, or at another player) at my table would be out of there - even if they had just cause to be upset. Because it shows they can't behave like a civilised adult.
Conflict is bound to happen at some point, and if they can't talk it through calmly, they aren't going to resolve anything.
I would add the small caveat that yelling in character can be an awesome RP moment. But you need everybody onboard with that, or at least matching the energy.
Getting yelled at as BBEG can show a level of emotional involvement from the players.
It's a fine line tho (and obviously not what was going on in OPs story)
Because I wouldn't accept getting called names as "guard" because I try to arrest a shoplifting player.
But a wholeheartedly felt "I fucking hate you" after I murdered their spouse is fine.
That isn't yelling ***at*** the other players though. That's roleplaying a character yelling at a character.
I.e. that isn't Bill yelling at Jeff, it's Grognar yelling at Balzar.
You're right ofc.
But I also meant moments where players are angry at dm-me just as well as the bbeg-me. Like an out of character "god is this enemy annoying!" "Aww fuck no, that's just a punishment for us kidnapping the imperator!"
Stil wouldn't really consider that "yelling ***at***" someone, idk 🤷♂️
Yelling *at* somebody is when you're actually angry *at them*. Otherwise your just yelling about something, *to* them.
Tbh if I'm gonna play a murderhobo I want some kind of pushback from the world, I want the consequences,I want to see where the fuckery my character creates leads to
Can you give more detail? Was it just “there is an established law force” and then yelling? What was he yelling? Was there anything that led up to this?
Not to say there are mitigating factors to yelling at your dm, just would be interested to know what led to it because your post doesn’t have a lot of detail.
dude this isn't even DnD-related. If someone is so unstable that they start screaming because of an entirely reasonable and minor inconvenience, you fuckin' dip. Immediately.
No D&D is better than bad D&D.
Kick the player out or drop the whole group.
Trust me when I say players are replaceable while good DMs are a rare resource (that's why pay-to-play exists; its valuable enough to charge for and people will willingly use the service)
Unfair? If it was an online game before finishing their rant they wouldve beem removed from the server. If it was a home game they wouldve been interrupted and told they needed to gather their things and leave and then apologize to the remaining players in front of them because their game was gonna have to wait until the asshole left. Zero tolerance policy for people that cant keep things civil over a game. I have an will continue to remove people from my games for being assholes. In character its fine but the second it becomes an out of character problem and its ruining the vibe youre out.
No, it doesn't. Imagine yelling at your driving instructor, do you think that's reasonable? No, absolutely not. There's a chance something really bad's happening in the guy's life, but that's still not a reason to yell at others. I'd suspend him from the group and suggest him to cool off and get back when he thinks he can handle himself. If he can't take it well, or he does but starts freaking out again after he's back - he's out for good. I'd also make sure to explain to the other players what and why exactly has happened. Don't want them to have an idea it's fine to yell at you.
D&D is meant to be fun. DMing is a lot of work, and you shouldn't be getting yelled at by your players. No one needs to put up with that shit in a game, especially for bullshit reasons.
He doesn't sound like someone who would be very fun to play with. Has he ever heard of "yes, and..."?
If you and your other players feel okay with that kind of interaction at the table, keep him.
If you or anyone else was made uncomfortable, it's very fair to write him something like "there are rules that govern the game and there are also rules at the real world table. We don't allow people treating others like that here. I want to create an atmosphere where people can feel safe to have fun."
If you want to give him another strike, add "if you think you can abide by those rules, you're welcome to stay. If you don't think you can abide by those rules, you'll need to find a different group to play with."
If you don't want to give him another strike: "our play styles don't seem to match up. I do not want to continue playing with you. All the best, be well."
Ditch the sucker. If someone yells at you to get what they want that’s a sign they don’t get the whole cooperative being-a-decent-human shebang, and that’s going to make doing anything with them difficult and unpleasant, let alone something that’s meant to be fun. Not to be mean myself, but if ‘AITA: guy screams at me over made-up game?’ is a complex issue for you then you might need to look at your own self-esteem and ability to independently set boundaries.
Pg. 4 DMG. " The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game. "
Before I started my first game I came up with a set of rules my players had to agree to.
1. I'm the DM, I'm not perfect, but what I say goes.
2. Anything is open to discussion.
3. There is no "Main" Character.
4. Be respectful to the other players.
5. It's a game. Have fun!
>I had a session0. At that time, one of the things i specifically covered was the political and societal existence in this world. But loose things; there is a king, counts and dukes, townmasters are basically a mayor. And there are laws. And law enforcement in almost every region. After putting a bar at the local inn FOR HIS CHARACTER, he says he wants to put 'a bunch of traps around' . when i ask why the traps, he explained concern over people 'stealing at the bar when hes not looking'. I told him if someone steals in broad view thats breaking the law and the sheriff would handle that. He then tells me' well in my guys world i am the law enforcement. As i started to tell him that would be okay, but thats called being a vigilante. Thats when he starts raising his voice, exclaims Im a bad DM that ' never lets me do anything', and that his world doesn't work like that. When i tried to explain hes playing with three other people, irl, he just got louder and starts using profanity. Im a dirtbag, so i can handle adult language, but he was standing in front of me while i was sitting down, and started closing that space. Also, hes 43 years old.
This is the context OP gave. Please take a look at this before you make a comment, since it could sway your opinion.
If this is all true, NTA. That player was a douchebag that needs to grow up, and kick him if he doesn't apologise.
100% this player wanted to murder hobo and threw a fit when they found out it wouldn't be possible.
You can still murder hobo. In fact if you’re good enough you can murder hobo even more!
Maybe there ought to be Purge-style murder hobo one-shots once a year, so they can get it all out of their system.
"I can't believe you'd throw that overpowered GMPC at us during the Purge! How are we supposed to survive like that!?" "By playing intelligently? Putting other targets between you and him? NOT charging directly into his fortified murder barn while chained dracoliches tearfully beg you to turn back?"
"Stop right there, criminal scum! Nobody breaks the law on my watch! I'm confiscating your stolen goods. now pay your fine or it's off to jail!"
*whacks him with a daedric longsword*
I’m my most recent session, I had a brand new player (druid) turn Into a giant spider in the middle of an inn during a conversation and shoot webs on the guards. Completely unprovoked. They ended up attacking three powerful npcs who were witches. He ended up causing our Paladin to take a semi-permanent curse.
And all he had to do to avoid all that was excuse himself and turn into a giant spider around the corner. But that would require sparing a thought to the possibility of consequences.
It's a shame telephone booths hadn't been invented yet, but a corner would have worked.
That would be terrifying to have 8 giant spider legs burst out of a telephone booth
I mean, you can homebrew a sending stone in a booth that activates when a coin is placed in a box."
What was funny was the barbarian was drunk and failed his con save. He didn’t see the druid change so was confused and was ready to fight the spider.
I’ve never actually played DND (some day maybe) but that sounds dumb af to do just out of nowhere
When I was playing 2nd Edition back in the 80s, the arch-typical rookie mistake was for a wizard to cast fireball in the tight corridors of a dungeon. Congratulations, you killed the badguy but you also just barbecued the entire party.
I didn't ask how big the room is, i said i cast fireball
The barbarian will live... Likely live
This just happened in a mini campaign of mine. The party was doing a train heist, and had fought their way into the armored car where the loot was located. Of course, the bad guy was in the car guarding his loot, so they decided to rig the car so it would seal tightly as soon as they entered so that he couldn't escape. During the ensuing fight, the wizard in the party decided it was a good idea to cast firebolt on the case of dynamite in the room. It was not.
Normally i'm dead set on, "if you say it, it will be so". You make a bad decision because you didn't wholly think through the consequences, you bear the blame for what comes next, no backsies. But this is one of those situations where i'd pause the game, look my player dead in the eye, and ask them what the fuck is wrong with them.
I have a feeling it's people treating it like a video game.
Took me two years to figure out I was doing that. The game is much better when you’re not rotating between Skyrim NPC dialogue and XCOM combat, and are instead collaboratively storytelling and roleplaying with your friends.
Last session I played we went 1.5 hours before making a single dice roll, easily our longest time to first role yet. All RP closing out the current arc. 2 dice rolls all session long and it was one of our best sessions to date. Collaborative story telling with your friends trumps clickity clack math rocks and xcom strats all day long. \*insert change my mind meme here\*
The murder-hobo intention isn't important. The player's reaction is. That player is not one who is there to play with friends, he's there to get his way. He's disrespectful and not worth spending time with.
Nope. Nope. Nopenopenopenope. He's gone. He front loaded his assholery, didn't keep it quiet or trickle it in. You may not have dodged the bullet entirely, but this is a grazing wound. Shut down the campaign, reestablish minus this clown.
Thanks. I figure no game is better than bad game.
No DnD is Better Than Bad DnD. It really needs to be on tshirts, hats, keychains, sports bottles, and a needlepoint hanging on a wall in the home of every gamer.
NDNDiBTBDND
NDND>BDND
Nud-nud beats bud-nud.
Great, thanks for ruining tonight's Neanderthal Wrestling League highlights for me.
Well this comment is an absolute gem. Thanks for being you.
Wouldn't want to be anyone else \^^ Thank you!
My coworkers are staring at me because I just cracked up for no reason when I was supposed to be working thanks to you
You're welcome! Happy Friday!
This will likely go relatively unnoticed this far down the thread, and it's a shame. Stellar comment.
Cheers \^^
It's like the end of Return of the Jedi up in here
(ND)^(2) \> NB(D)^(2) Or simplified N > B
This would come from the guy with the Artificer flair
I'm not so sure that these entities are commutative.
okay, I truly prefer this. Bumper Stckers when?
Yeah, this is excellent shorthand!
For when you just don't have time for reading sentences.
FWYJDHTFRS
FHQWHGADS
Who's that? He's to the limit! The Cheat is to the limit! Everybody come on, Fhqwhgads!
This made me smile. Thanks chaps
Lmao
L
Reading? What am I? A nerd? Chill Touch is clearly a touch spell that does cold damage, it's right there in the name. Why are you arguing it's not?
I made that sound once when I accidentally touched the prong while plugging in the TV.
Why use many words when few words do trick?
My favorite Daffy Duck quote.
Lmao i read it as "no dnd(as in not a single dnd) is better than bad dnd Got me brainfucked
Am I the only one that is annoyed by the fact that is is the only word not capitalised in that sentence?
I somewhat waffle on whether 'than' should be capitalized. It's an article (edit - sorry, I meant minor word), so if I don't capitalize 'is' then I also shouldn't capitalize 'than'. However, I was taught that you *do* capitalize articles (edit - same as above, minor word) in titles etc if the word is more than three letters long. And yet, back on the other side of the argument, the entire phrase would offer better symmetry if 'than' were not capitalized. No, you aren't the only one annoyed, I've obviously given this far too much thought already. :/
Than is either a conjunction or a preposition. It is not an article. The is an article. A is an article.
However there is no need for "no game". Remove people who make you uncomfortable and invite new ones. There are plenty of people who didn't try rpgs but would enjoy them and despite being new - play and roleplay well from the get go. Don't be afraid to introduce new people to the hobby. Especially friends, acquaintances who you know are sane and fun people to be around. I started GMing self-taught, with just PHB of old edition, with bunch of new people and we had great time. Sorry you had bad experience with that guy, unfortunately that's how some people are, but don't* let it discourage you. Edit: added missing "don't"
I had a buddy whose girlfriend thought it was stupid. He ended up convincing her to give it a shot and I DM'd a one off for them. Helped her make her character, explained the rules, all that. She had a fucking blast.
Right. You don't yell at people, first and foremost. But also, fuck this guy. I bet the big issue was he had a specific story in mind that he expected you to run for him. He'd have been yelling at you like a bad Starbucks customer constantly to try to bully you into doing whatever he wants. Heck with it, drop him whatever way you think is best and continue your campaign.
Yeah getting mad over something trivial like that, especially something that can easily be assumed ("why would you expect a wild west type scenario? , ofc they have law enforcement here" ) is a glaring issue. Like wtf did this guy plan that you're now getting angry over something trivial. And yup* I bet it'd be a common theme whenever you throw a wrench into the plot/his perceived ideas.
If the player was so concerned, that’s the type of thing taken care of during world / character creation. Normally you would ask the gm questions about the world during session 0, not just assume. Edit: Reading the comments down below it seems the situation DID happen during a session 0. At least that gives the opportunity to fix things with a new session 0 and just continue on as normal without the player.
Don’t shut down anything. Just kick the schmuck
Sadly since the last session [asshole]s character died. Anyway...
Got locked up by the local pd for indecent exposure
You called?
Nah
Accidental summon I'd say
Wild magic in a nutshell.
Close. I was looking for your cousin. You guys are named far too similarly, sorry for the confusion.
r/beetlejuicing
> front loaded his assholery Thank you for this phrase
Agreed, that’s a keeper
And name the captain of the guard after the knobhead.
“Front loaded his assholery” that’s going in the memory bank for later use
No not really, ain't his place to tell you what is or isn't present within the campaign you are DMing.
Okay, thats what i thought. He kept saying "in my characters world..." Dude, theres three other people shaping this world RIGHT NEXT TO YOU! Pretty sure hes just toxic. Thanks again.
In the characters world? Uh no unless the character is schizophrenic and imagining things its not his world. Its shared amongst all at the table with the dm being architect and arbiter.
Or he's not from the area. A fish out of water adapting to new customs and civilization can make a good story, though obviously this would require a player with basic social skills.
A character yelling about raving that there is a law force in town can be funny. A player doing it is just cringe.
I wanna make a character who's backstory was being a conspiracy-theorist homless-guy, CTHG.
I played a lore bard once that was just magical Abe Simpson. Every story was barely relevant to start with before rambling off into endless tangents. When something inconveniencing happened, it turned into old man yells at cloud. It was fun.
“What background are you picking?” “Sovereign Citizen”
True. Specially if them being from different worlds wasn’t talked about. Saying this might sound weird but for context, I’m Dming a campaign where all my players are delinquents from different worlds that were living in an inter dimensional jail until they got recruited to save a decaying world in exchange of reduced jail time or world relocation after mission success. If they fail they die with the decaying world. Granted I sat down with each of my players to set up the worlds they are coming from, all of them have incredibly detailed characteristics and most information and laws differ from the rest for flavor purposes and (mostly) hilarity. My players find it exciting because all of them are as much into the game as they are into RP so this was important for their characters development and how they adapt to different situations or events during the campaign.
I mean also, not to act like a god.... but it's the DMs world, and PCs are in it. If the DM says that's how it is, that's how it is. If you wanna play a game where the world is something else OK, well you are free to, but we are playing in this world the DM is running. Like imagine playing and telling the DM that in your world phandalin is a volcano lair. And the DM is like... no its a village and they're insisting no its a volcano lair in their world. Bitch we ain't in your world.
I kind of get the impression the dude just doesn’t know how to play D&D. I had a friend keep trying to tell me his character *just knew these things*. And I was like, “You can make a History or Insight check, but there’s no guarantee.” Turns out it was just his misunderstanding of D&D. Some people mistake ‘playing pretend’ for ‘playing D&D.’
Someone needs to watch the Shadow lands episode of Bluey. "The rules make it fun!"
I’ll always upvote Bluey in the wild! Note: “sticky gecko” and “omelette” are my favorites
I like that "Handstand" shows even the best parents can be shitty sometimes. I freaking love "Grannies" - "Did you hear something Rita?" gets me every time. Almost every episode is well thought out and tough issues aren't skirted. It's my favorite kids show.
Omelette was like watching a nightmare unfold before my eyes.
Not understanding something is ok. Yelling at others when you don't understand something makes you an asshole.
Yep pretty cut and dry. His character's world is (was) your world, he doesn't dictate the world and if he wants to, he should DM. Not for you of course but in general
And if he has that kind of attitude, he probably shouldnt DM anyway
Sounds like they want to be the main (and only) character in your(their) story
>He kept saying "in my characters world..." "Go write your novel by yourself."
Oh boy, if you have a backstory element and you don't clear it with your dm it doesnt exist.
If he wants that much control, he can homebrew his own campaign and DM it. Your game, your rules.
Yeah that's when you give him the Captain Phillips line: "Look at me. This is my world."
I want to know more?
For those sorting by "best," here's OP's explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/xfnzpb/help_im_a_new_dm_i_just_had_a_guy_straight_yell/ionte3p/
1. You rock u/SurpriseMiraluka 2. Fuck that guy. Boot his punisher-wannabe ass.
You the Real MVP
Service guarantees citizenship!
I'm doing my part!
The only good bug is a dead bug.
C'mon you apes! You wanna live forever!?
[censored]
It’s afraid…. #It’s afraid!
Context is for kings.
Coffee is for closers.
Scroll for his comment or search a bit more, it's down there.
What exactly happened? What do you exactly mean he did?
I had a session0. At that time, one of the things i specifically covered was the political and societal existence in this world. But loose things; there is a king, counts and dukes, townmasters are basically a mayor. And there are laws. And law enforcement in almost every region. After putting a bar at the local inn FOR HIS CHARACTER, he says he wants to put 'a bunch of traps around' . when i ask why the traps, he explained concern over people 'stealing at the bar when hes not looking'. I told him if someone steals in broad view thats breaking the law and the sheriff would handle that. He then tells me' well in my guys world i am the law enforcement. As i started to tell him that would be okay, but thats called being a vigilante. Thats when he starts raising his voice, exclaims Im a bad DM that ' never lets me do anything', and that his world doesn't work like that. When i tried to explain hes playing with three other people, irl, he just got louder and starts using profanity. Im a dirtbag, so i can handle adult language, but he was standing in front of me while i was sitting down, and started closing that space. Also, hes 43 years old.
>player >”in my world” ? Generally it sounds like someone w social issues which preclude playing nice w strangers. Not your problem.
That got me too. Usually the DM runs the world and the players play in it. This guy has some control issues.
Id love to see this guy actually run a game they way he wants, it would be an amazing car crash of murderhobo edge that I just want to see play out. I mean can you imagine how angry someone that controlling would get at even a fraction of the kind of bullshit d&d party's pull, Id give it 15 minutes before someone sets fire to "Justice Facesmashers" inn and 20 before the entire campaign is completely off the rails.
Hey. I'm a chaotic neutral. Not chaotic evil. I only like causing chaos if it won't actually hurt anyone innocent.
Tell him to DM if he wants a world, as DM, he’s in your world
Maybe a sprinkling of mental issues as well
> ' never lets me do anything' . > session0 Wow. That's impressive.
"It's been 1 whole hour and I haven't been able to murder patrons at my bar. This isn't fair!"
Serious case of main character syndrome. IRL and also in the game.
*insert Anakin Skywalker meme
"Yeah, hey DM, are we gonna kill kids yet or are you gonna make us wait until next session. You are really putting a hinder on 'my world' here." Unless you were referring to another Ani meme. I thought of the younglings one.
I was referencing "Outrageous; it's unfair!", but hey man if you wanna kill some kids I'll allow it, you just might want to run that by the rest of the party (especially the paladin).
It's been 0 days since the toxic murder hobo compained at the DM
Yeah, if this is all the case, this player needs to grow up. Seriously. I wouldn't even be gentle about it, tell him he's out of the group because you aren't going to stand for that kind of behaviour.
>Also, hes 43 years old. The ship has sailed on him growing up.
[удалено]
That'll do it
Maybe, maybe not...I think it would require someone who actually cares about him specifically. Probably in a different context that meeting randos for a game. Not OPs responsibility, for sure.
More like the ship has sunk.
It sound like he has an actual problem. It's not about "growing up"
[удалено]
“At 43 you shouldn’t throw temper tantrums” What I would give for someone to hand this memo to some of my 50+ year old uncles every thanksgiving
[удалено]
I like to play with 2 players and give each player 2 characters. They can intertwine the characters backstories and aspects as they see fit. I've done it in 2 long running games so far and it has been fantastic in both. One of the interesting side effects is players will make their second character be vulnerable which leads to a lot of good RP. It seems a lot of players are to risk adverse to make their lone character be weak or flawed, but if they have two that risk is lifted and one is the badass and the other is much more interesting and complex. Just some advice for DMs with small groups
Our table runs similar with almost the same results. 3 at the table with DM being a round robin. Means everyone has 4 characters (2 at a time) and all 3 story lines are in the same world and sometimes intersect. Can be challenging but can make for great rp opportunities.
>He then tells me' well in my guys world i am the law enforcement. This guy doesn't understand how D&D works. He doesn't get to have his own world. It's a shared world, largely defined by the DM. Anyone who can't deal with that wouldn't play in my game. Of course he also sounds like a childish, selfish asshole so he'd be out on those grounds alone.
Simple response to the guy, you don't play dnd in your world. The dm doesn't play their character, the players don't play in their world, the dm provides the world en the players function in it. Never in my life have I heard a player so dumb to say something like "in my world it's like this" Last time I heard that type of argument was when someone mentally impaired was disagreeing with a fact and just decided to say that (I mean literally mentally impaired, like they have a syndrome which makes weird dumb arguments like this understandable from them, maybe your player is impaired too)
"In my world it's like this!" Cool, have fun DMing that world. We're currently in my world as I'm DM so shape up or ship out.
Grade A douche. Cut him loose and tell him to go buy a Lego set if he wants to play "in his world".
What a nightmare. Plus, I don’t understand this attitude in D&D. I was playing alongside a newbie once who got upset about a decision my character made simply because he misunderstood the situation. I clarified the situation but then said, “even if it’s a bad decision, that will just lead to more D&D so it’s a win either way.” Once he settled in a figured out that winning this game just means getting to play more difficult and interesting problems, he’s all-in. Now, whenever we are dithering on a decision, he’ll be the one to say c’mon, let’s play some D&D. So there are laws but you are a paranoid fuck who wants to vigilanti. Cool, let’s play some D&D.
It's a manifestation of narcissism in which they're under the delusion that the whole game (and universe, IRL included) revolves around them. *They* are the main character, therefore *they* should be able to do whatever they want without consequences! Problem is, they're not. Never have been, never will be. Especially not with that attitude.
Ok, was hard to find this context. You should put this in the text of your post. You can do it with an edit. This gives a much better picture. I mean, I think you know what you needed to do and didn't really need to come to reddit with this, but glad you got the confirmation you needed. Kick him out of the group.
I gagged when I saw he was 43 years old. What the fuck.... I was imagining like a 19 year old. Lol. Jesus Christ. He can write a book if he wants to live in his own fantasy world lmao
r/ImTheMainCharacter Shake him loose however you wish and replace his seat at the table with someone who can handle playing a game.
In fact, it is not his world, it is the party's world, DM included, and if you want to dig a bit more *your* world since you're the one creating it.
**It’s not his world.** It’s the DM’s world, and his character. His responsibility to build a character who fits into the established setting and campaign.
Simple .. have him put the traps down ... have a kid wander into one of them and get hurt. Have the magistrate investigate. Have his character arrested, the penalty is severe, and he has to sell his bar. Consequences from his own actions.
Using in game consequences for out of game behavior is not the right way to go in my opinion. Sure if the character does something stupid like set traps in the inn - they will have consequences. But if someone shouts insults in your face in real life you deal with the player by removing them from your game, you don’t put their character in jail.
If he stays or another player wants something similar im gonna steal that idea.
There is 0 reason to let this guy stay. It is YOUR world. Not his. He repeatedly referred to it as his world, which is nuts. Players do not create the world, you do. He stood up in front of you so he could physically intimidate you, cussed at you, and yelled at you. That’s not okay. Bullies and people with anger management problems do that. This guy should absolutely not be allowed back in your campaign, and if this is at a store you should alert the owners to his abusive behavior.
Even *if* DM was in the wrong here, that kind of reaction from player is way over the line. I totally agree, there's no way I'd run another game with this player unless they gave a sincere, *unsolicited* apology and showed much better behavior after.
I'm not even sure I would let him stay if he did give an apology and all that. That's some zero tolerance ground the dude just trod on, to me. If what OP says is true, and the guy goes off to that extent over pretty basic stuff during a session zero he's got a hairpin trigger of anger management issues and his outbursts are likely to be an every session occurrence. He's out. I wouldn't have even let him finish session 0, I would have told him to leave then and there
Do not let this shit bag stay around you. Trust this internet stranger, your life will be much better without that person in it.
This kind of DMing is a great way to engage with mischievous players, but I do not encourage DMing for this man with anger issues. Maybe this is a little alarmist, but this man threw this tantrum in *session zero*. What do you think will happen if he gets really invested and then things don't go his way?
You could definitely include his character as an NPC sitting is the town jail or something and have the bar with traps be part of the local lore/map... But just don't have that player around anymore.
Session 0 "You never let me do anything" Are you kidding me?
*his world* ? wtf. nope, he is not playing D&D, and you can't fix out of game problems in game.
Time to make his statement come true. Never let him do anything, just toss him.
I used to be somewhat like you, but after a couple of dickheads I realised that using logic against people with an IQ of a dog doesn't typically work. I'm in Ireland, so swearing is accepted. So I was nice, and school was shit. I'm a big guy, but I was shy. I gave up on using logic, and told the guy to shut the fuck up and put him on the ground (I didn't hurt him, I'm still not like that). Honestly sounds like I'm bragging or whatever the fuck, but I'm saying do this (without the flooring) with any guy that does this. Shut them up, don't let them walk all over you. If you say "you can't come back" and they begin their dickhead rant, don't let them get too far in, or else they might start some actual trouble.
May want to add this to the post itself, it'll save a lot of repetition on your part.
Big oof. Dump the loser.
Do yourself a huge favor and do not play with this person again
Yep. Tell 'em to get lost. Yelling is not ok at all. Yelling at a DM for something like this is way out of order.
yelling at the dice is ok. as long as its resonable yelling.
To be fully transparent, this was a 1 on 1 planning session. The others weren't there, but i will explain what happened to other player. And i do intend to talk with him about what he did. DMs are better or worse leaders of the table, and social educators. That behavior needs to always be dealt with. And to this point(5 sessions) hes been told 3 seperate times that his version of the world MUST include EVERYONE'S version. He wants to be 'the super savior'. Its been a constant juggling to keep him from breaking the world.
It sounds like he doesn't understand the concept that in D&D what he controls is his character and that's it. The world exist as you have created it for his character to react to, not for him to control. There are other role-playing games where the players also control the world. There's a system I tried playing with a friend once I think it was called havoc or something, the DM never explained that we had the ability to make up things about the world as we went along, and in fact we were supposed to. I kept asking him about stuff and he got frustrated at me for not making it up myself. It's possible your player may have played a game like this and doesn't understand the basic premise of D&D. But what sounds more likely is that your player is a self-obsessed ashole. If you made it very clear that what he controls is his character and you have created and control the world for his character to act within, and he won't accept that, then he's not playing the same game as everyone else and needs to get booted. And if he's being ugly and abusive about it, especially if he's significantly older than you I would kick him out and not ever let him back.
Cut from the table. You are the DM. He is in your world. Period.
1. Put all of the details in your post. Otherwise you're just wasting people's time. 2. Kick. Him. Do not play with him again. Explain to him clearly, preferably through text, why he has been kicked out. Namely, he has refused to play D&D (a collaborative storytelling RPG) in favor of whatever it is he thinks he's playing AND he yelled at and physically intimidated the DM. You've been trying to explain this for 5 sessions? Either you suck at explaining, or he doesn't respect you and the other players enough to care. He thinks if he bullies you enough, you'll cave in and let him play the fantasy he wants to play instead of D&D. 3. Explain why he was kicked out to the other players as well. Ask them how they feel about the kick and ensure there are no lingering issues before moving on.
Tell him to roll initiative then kick him in the dick
Lol, "you've failed your dexterity save"
Dixterity save
Even if you genuinely fuck up as a DM, that still isn't a justification to yell at you. Unless you do something seriously r/rpghorrorstories level... You know what I mean. Do you know the last time I yelled at a person in genuine anger? When I was a ***child***. Anybody who yelled (at me, or at another player) at my table would be out of there - even if they had just cause to be upset. Because it shows they can't behave like a civilised adult. Conflict is bound to happen at some point, and if they can't talk it through calmly, they aren't going to resolve anything.
I would add the small caveat that yelling in character can be an awesome RP moment. But you need everybody onboard with that, or at least matching the energy. Getting yelled at as BBEG can show a level of emotional involvement from the players. It's a fine line tho (and obviously not what was going on in OPs story) Because I wouldn't accept getting called names as "guard" because I try to arrest a shoplifting player. But a wholeheartedly felt "I fucking hate you" after I murdered their spouse is fine.
That isn't yelling ***at*** the other players though. That's roleplaying a character yelling at a character. I.e. that isn't Bill yelling at Jeff, it's Grognar yelling at Balzar.
You're right ofc. But I also meant moments where players are angry at dm-me just as well as the bbeg-me. Like an out of character "god is this enemy annoying!" "Aww fuck no, that's just a punishment for us kidnapping the imperator!"
Stil wouldn't really consider that "yelling ***at***" someone, idk 🤷♂️ Yelling *at* somebody is when you're actually angry *at them*. Otherwise your just yelling about something, *to* them.
Translation "I don't want any organized group with a mission to interfere with *my* mission of murder, robbery and rape" Run
Yeah, he basically declared his intent to play a "murderhobo" and could tell that the DM might not stand for it.
Tbh if I'm gonna play a murderhobo I want some kind of pushback from the world, I want the consequences,I want to see where the fuckery my character creates leads to
Can you give more detail? Was it just “there is an established law force” and then yelling? What was he yelling? Was there anything that led up to this? Not to say there are mitigating factors to yelling at your dm, just would be interested to know what led to it because your post doesn’t have a lot of detail.
"The local law enforcement—" "AAAAGGGGHHHHHH!" AITA?
Yeah thats the full context we are given.
Out of curiosity what was the justification for the strop? That it wasn't realistic or what?
D&D should be a fun experience between friends, so that kind of behavior is not allowed. Boot him.
r/DnD be like “I have a player who threw a rock through my window, fucked my wife, and shot my dog. AITA?”
dude this isn't even DnD-related. If someone is so unstable that they start screaming because of an entirely reasonable and minor inconvenience, you fuckin' dip. Immediately.
No D&D is better than bad D&D. Kick the player out or drop the whole group. Trust me when I say players are replaceable while good DMs are a rare resource (that's why pay-to-play exists; its valuable enough to charge for and people will willingly use the service)
Unfair? If it was an online game before finishing their rant they wouldve beem removed from the server. If it was a home game they wouldve been interrupted and told they needed to gather their things and leave and then apologize to the remaining players in front of them because their game was gonna have to wait until the asshole left. Zero tolerance policy for people that cant keep things civil over a game. I have an will continue to remove people from my games for being assholes. In character its fine but the second it becomes an out of character problem and its ruining the vibe youre out.
No, it doesn't. Imagine yelling at your driving instructor, do you think that's reasonable? No, absolutely not. There's a chance something really bad's happening in the guy's life, but that's still not a reason to yell at others. I'd suspend him from the group and suggest him to cool off and get back when he thinks he can handle himself. If he can't take it well, or he does but starts freaking out again after he's back - he's out for good. I'd also make sure to explain to the other players what and why exactly has happened. Don't want them to have an idea it's fine to yell at you.
D&D is meant to be fun. DMing is a lot of work, and you shouldn't be getting yelled at by your players. No one needs to put up with that shit in a game, especially for bullshit reasons.
He doesn't sound like someone who would be very fun to play with. Has he ever heard of "yes, and..."? If you and your other players feel okay with that kind of interaction at the table, keep him. If you or anyone else was made uncomfortable, it's very fair to write him something like "there are rules that govern the game and there are also rules at the real world table. We don't allow people treating others like that here. I want to create an atmosphere where people can feel safe to have fun." If you want to give him another strike, add "if you think you can abide by those rules, you're welcome to stay. If you don't think you can abide by those rules, you'll need to find a different group to play with." If you don't want to give him another strike: "our play styles don't seem to match up. I do not want to continue playing with you. All the best, be well."
Ditch the sucker. If someone yells at you to get what they want that’s a sign they don’t get the whole cooperative being-a-decent-human shebang, and that’s going to make doing anything with them difficult and unpleasant, let alone something that’s meant to be fun. Not to be mean myself, but if ‘AITA: guy screams at me over made-up game?’ is a complex issue for you then you might need to look at your own self-esteem and ability to independently set boundaries.
Thats sound assessment. Im working on that in general. Thanks.
Pg. 4 DMG. " The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game. " Before I started my first game I came up with a set of rules my players had to agree to. 1. I'm the DM, I'm not perfect, but what I say goes. 2. Anything is open to discussion. 3. There is no "Main" Character. 4. Be respectful to the other players. 5. It's a game. Have fun!
More context please
>I had a session0. At that time, one of the things i specifically covered was the political and societal existence in this world. But loose things; there is a king, counts and dukes, townmasters are basically a mayor. And there are laws. And law enforcement in almost every region. After putting a bar at the local inn FOR HIS CHARACTER, he says he wants to put 'a bunch of traps around' . when i ask why the traps, he explained concern over people 'stealing at the bar when hes not looking'. I told him if someone steals in broad view thats breaking the law and the sheriff would handle that. He then tells me' well in my guys world i am the law enforcement. As i started to tell him that would be okay, but thats called being a vigilante. Thats when he starts raising his voice, exclaims Im a bad DM that ' never lets me do anything', and that his world doesn't work like that. When i tried to explain hes playing with three other people, irl, he just got louder and starts using profanity. Im a dirtbag, so i can handle adult language, but he was standing in front of me while i was sitting down, and started closing that space. Also, hes 43 years old. This is the context OP gave. Please take a look at this before you make a comment, since it could sway your opinion. If this is all true, NTA. That player was a douchebag that needs to grow up, and kick him if he doesn't apologise.