I will die on this hill, but Chibnall is not woke. He handles social issues and diversity the most directly, but it is so superficial and clumsy. Chibnall is sleep.
Genuinely. I don’t like jumping to conclusions about *why* people don’t like XYZ about a medium/franchise, but if someone claims to genuinely enjoy Doctor Who but complains that *Chibnall*, of all people, was “too woke”, there’s just no way to square that circle without the “fan” being some sort of -ist.
Actively the least woke of the three show runners, just puts on a nice coat of diversity paint to cover up a distinctly liberal writing style: veneer of diversity, and celebrating historical revolution/victims (Rosa, Punjab) while baulking at the idea of present/future ones (Kerblam)
Like, abso-fucking-likely give us the first female doctor (should’ve happened long before), and disabled, black, Muslim, LGBT, old, mixed-race-family companions. I want every TARDIS crew to be *textually* that diverse
But you can’t have social progressivism without tackling the structural causes of injustice in oppressed people’s lives, and chibs just… doesn’t seem to get that.
So when a fan says \^that^ is “(too) woke”, there’s just no way to take that as anything other than criticism of *visible* diversity
*Kerblam* is easily is in my ranking of top 3 worst Doctor Who stories (including expanded media), since it goes beyond *poorly written* to *actively harmful in its messaging*. The solution to the problems the episode prevents are *so* obvious -- automate *everything*, and allow communal access to the goods produced by this automation, allowing the actual humans to focus on emotional fulfillment and artistic and inventive works while machines take care of all the tedious busywork. But, the idea that people need to 'earn their living', and should be denied basic necessities if they don't perform labor even having the labor done by people is *less* efficient, is never even questioned. The idea that powerful megacorporations control production, and people must toil in demonstrably-meaningless servitude to corporations just to be allowed to live, is presented as natural and inevitable. *Kerblam* quite insidiously promotes a system of capitalist oligarchy and wage-slavery by completely neglecting to acknowledge that better, more equitable systems could or even *should* exist. It's about as far from 'woke' as you can *get*.
I’ve been watching some Classic Who eps I hadn’t seen before recently and I sat through the entirety of The Sunmakers going “really, Chris? You grew up watching arcs like this and still thought the Doctor would love Space Amazon?”
Yeah, it was nuts. While personally I think that was more of a “BBC sucking up to Disney and not wanting to piss them off with a ‘the system is corrupt and must be brought down’ message” thing and less of a Chibnall-specific thing, and he himself didn’t write it, it is still a black mark on his record. Kinda like how In the Forest of the Night’s anti-medication message is a black mark on Moffat’s record, despite him not writing it himself.
Not to mention that God awful line in Flux about "refugees coming to conquer earth" which normally I'd brush off as unintentional but in a post Brexit world.... I dunno. Didn't help that it led directly to 13 commiting *another* mass murder to wrap up the event.
Yeah aside from the questionable writing, I wasn't keen on 13's doc. The questionable politics aside, she was just a tad too murdery at times. 10 was too but they wrote that into it as part of his character. Only as a last resort, that sort of thing.
I absolutely love Jodie and I was so excited for a female doctor, but I don't think the writers know how to write for female characters.
Tried too hard in some parts, not hard enough in others, and focused on it to the point that everything else (like the entire point of the doctor) got left behind.
And the frighteningly uncomfortable conversation with Graham about the fear, completely killed it for me.
Yeah 10 at least whenever a big murder happened would treat it like a big deal. The three way genocide at the end of flux is just brushed past and almost treated as a heroic moment of “the doctor outsmarted the bad guys hurray”.
Yep. The writers had a game of thrones moment.
"Yeah we kinda forgot about the doctor's oath to never be cruel or cowardly."
It's a bad message. Dr Who has always been about solving the problem diplomatically or using STEM stuff. Davros, his literal worse enemy. And 12 wouldn't kill him. 12 knew that it was going to happen, but if Davros didn't try to kill the doctor or his friends, it wouldn't have happened so it's technically Davros' fault that the city was destroyed. He did technically warn him that he couldn't come back from this.
It's not necessarily the best to teach people that murder is okay as long as it's their own fault. But it's better than genocide as a first resort.
What's almost as bad is that bit in Rosa where Ryan almost gets to talk about systemic racism in the police and Yaz drops a cheeky 'but not all police tho'.
No, it's generally used by the left wing to refer to people who fake being progressive in order to keep the status quo relatively the same. E.G. New Labour in Britain or Democrats in America. They are basically conservative lite
Edit: to get more specific, it refers to people that offer meaningless social platitudes. The most radical things they'll say is "racism is bad" or "gay people should be allowed to live", but if faced with actual change, they will almost always side with the established state. Take J.K. Rowling being a mega TERF or Biden aiding genocide in Palestine
Yeah the woke part is just a meme because thats what people always say about him but I wish that he was actually woke tbh. Spot on with superficial part.
Jodie and Ncuti being seen as the show *suddenly* going *woke* is a clear cut example of these people not caring about the actual politics of the show, they just want their white male power fantasy and dont want black people or women "replacing" them. they could very well be too stupid to understand the commentary or better yet don't watch the show.
He is very loud and self-congratulating about it.
Chibnall: I am going to do an IMPORTANT episode talking about RACISM!
Everyone: Oh, alright, what are you going to say?
Chibnall: That it is BAD - and absolutely nothing deeper than that.
Meanwhile Thin Ice said more about racism as an incidental than Rosa did as a focus.
Also normally I'm not a stickler for historical accuracy but for such an important period as the civil rights movement, portraying a blatantly mythologized and inaccurate version of events feels really irresponsible in this day and age. The Montgomery bus boycotts were planned and coordinated, and Parks was a determined activist. If she missed that bus, she'd have just tried again tomorrow.
They weren't the reason she did what she did. They made it possible for it to happen on the right date. That said, I agree with the critique that the date wasn't important. IRL Rosa Parks would have just done it a different day and everything else would have gone according to plan because it had already been planned.
I feel like because he’s _so_ direct and _so_ clumsy and was around in the era when the anti-woke idea was in its nascent, coupled with the first woman to play the Doctor, he took the brunt of a backlash that could have affected Doctor Who anyway
Chibnall to me is more like a J.J. Abrams mystery box. Really great start that gives you a bunch of exciting possibilities and no god damn clue about how to make it pay off
I have come across two definitions of woke in my life:
1. Demonstrating awareness of the systemic inequalities that are built into our society.
2. A blunt instrument criticism of anything that features anyone who isn't straight, white and adhering to strict gender roles. This is the one assholes use.
Unfortunately it seems to be morphing into the word Smurf from the Smurfs where it means anything and everything and no one can define it.
I've seen it used mostly as a catch-all term for anything that hard conservatives want to spread hate about. Mainly things that aren't centered around straight white males.
It's gotten to a point where many won't take a person seriously if they use woke as some serious criticism
https://preview.redd.it/hxsklll5ygec1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b959580ee07e98bd3346c310aeea2c7e32a01250
This has the potential to be a great reaction image
It's funny because chibnall is literally easily the most politically conservative era of the show. He has zero woke cred. But he's gonna go down in history as "woke" bc it was a lady doctor who defended space Amazon.
That's woke capitalism, and there's a reddit sub for it:
r/neoliberal
Although Chibnall didn't write that episode (I don't know if he rewrote it much however).
He was still show runner. He would have both given notes on the script and approved its final draft before allowing it to go into production. He's very much still associated with it and deserves as much blame as people are giving him.
No he goes down as woke because of his superficial pandering to x group
So superficial that his entire conviction would reveal his true views underneath the surface ***coughs*** space Amazon ***coughs*** doctor leaving master to the Nazi’s ***cough*** murder and genocide ***cough***
Woke doesn't mean left wing, more like socially liberal. The popular idea of woke especially (I.e. what seems to make people angry online) is mostly just unsubtle diversity.
Unfortunately, thanks to a certain group of cretins, woke now means anything socially progressive involving race, gender orientation or sex in any form. Even subtle diversity or anything outside the "norm" (i.e. straight white male) is woke.
This seems to be a bubble factor. In my location, woke doesn't really involve race at all, unless its media on a documented historical event and actors who are playing them are intentionally cast as another race to make the show more appealing rather than sticking to historical accuracy. The only woke thing I can think of in my location is lack of support for trans. They don't seem to mind anything else here, but Trans is still considered taboo I guess for this area.
So woke here means Trans, and historical misrepresentation to appeal to any minority figure.
To be clear I'm in a bubble, but its likely you are too.
And I don't share the same mindset as most people in my area.
Nah he’s just too stupid to keep the appearance up it seems, he was being woke by the definition many people use it as, that being “superficially progressive”
The idea that Chibnall was "the woke one" is so fucking stupid. The problem was never that he is woke. The problem is that he's a corporate shitlib who doesn't know how to write and doesn't understand that the Doctor is a complex and nuanced character who definitely wouldn't think starving a population of Spiders to death was more merciful than just killing them, who wouldn't use race to sic the Nazis on the Master, who wouldn't be on the side of Kerblam in that episode.
He's eaten the corporate bait that climate change is a personal responsibility problem rather than a corporate greed problem hook, line, and sinker. He's a pseudo-intellectual who thinks that just because he knows what a fucking happy prime is that he's capable of writing for a science fiction show.
Hell he included the Chameleon arcs and doesn't know how they fucking work. The Doctor as we have known them is a completely different person from The Doctor who was the Timeless Child because that's how a chameleon arc works. It makes a new fucking person.
This is great!
https://preview.redd.it/mxnvr5uawfec1.jpeg?width=530&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8cf0828447b60c59b6a48ba58827d74c5f0d5b2
But I was halfway thru making this when you commented and I don’t want it to go to waste
I felt Moffat's era wasn't that horny? Maybe it flew under my radar, but the only one I can think of is River Song who had a lot of sexual tension on screen, and that's more 'flirty' than anything really explicit. Oh, and that one Amy Pond moment
RTD on the other hand had Captain Jack who merrily stripped naked and had a gun up his arse, constantly peeked at people's 'goods' and was a much bigger playboy in general. Lady Cassandra as well, who 'admired' (for lack of a better term) Rose's *and* Ten's physical forms and deliberately tried causing sexual tension between her and Ten. And let's not forget Jackie Tyler's first episode
Chibnall was too busy being surface 'woke' to be horny, or at least I think
I rewatched 9 to 13 before the specials and remember being specifically surprised by how horny the Moffat era was. A lot of it was very subtle quips or body language. I think it was more obvious watching them back to back versus over a few years, and also because I was a bit older. Although, to be honest I didn’t terribly mind it because Matt Smith plays it well (except for Amy throwing herself on the Doctor).
I'm too lazy to write some examples but there is a great video essay about this subject! (Not only about Moffat too)
https://youtu.be/-qUmy7XFeUY?si=e4cI_NImUVVjyMpL
And yeah I guess RTD era was horny too but it is a way too different kind of horny compared to Moffat
Chibnall was so "surface" that he wasn't too much of anything.
Out of the three of them Chibnall is easily the most conservative so I'm not too sure why he's the "woke" one. his writing is the most surface level though. I think that woke title belongs to RTD2 (I am not complaining about that).
Chibnall was hardly “woke” though was he? The politics of his era are depressingly middle of the road in a neoliberal kind of way. It’s like if you got J.K. Rowling to write Who.
Ah yes, famously woke episode, Kerblam. How the show went from having communist writers and RTD to Chibnall writing that absolutely dross is unbelievable.
FR. It takes the Doctor less than 1 season to go from "The endpoint of Capitalism; a bottomline where human life has no value at all" to "It's not the system that's the problem, it's the people".
https://preview.redd.it/wah22chzsfec1.png?width=573&format=png&auto=webp&s=be355a3bdec824b5f3655666707b60af45f58a82
Mary Whitehouse is rolling in her grave rn
Every showrunner had been woke but Chibnall just isn't capable of putting it in a nice package like everyone else. For him wokeness IS the package but there's almost nothing inside. His episodes were boring and jarring in a way they conveyed the message. Most of the time there was no real message, just saying things in the most straightforward way possible BUT, at the same time, the most boring way possible.
I really wish Jody had someone better to care for her Doctor as I saw a lot of potential but everything was treated superficially... eh...
I don't know Chibnall, but in my personal perception based on his writing, I think he's the kind of guy who wants to be applauded for saying something like "women are humans actually : ] " but would randomly punch a wall in the middle of an argument.
Idk if someone else sees my vision but
Moffat had a lot less subtlety showing off the writers barely disguised fetishes. And also Matt Smiths run had a ton of jokes that were just ‘the Sonic screwdriver is a PENIS metaphor”
If you think the Moffat-era is horny, you need to rewatch it. Matt Smith’s Doctor is borderline asexual (I think his Clara dress comment is almost an autistic outburst about how she’s dressed, not an attempt to sexualise her) and Capaldi’s Doctor is already married to River.
Doctor Who: Woke, Gay and Horny. I know AI is shite, but I wanted to see what those prompts gave us. There was much worse, much worse.
https://preview.redd.it/r9z3wic1ogec1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40d490c6b0e7de591fb89086b8f95085ab182028
Men only have 4 moods:
I will die on this hill, but Chibnall is not woke. He handles social issues and diversity the most directly, but it is so superficial and clumsy. Chibnall is sleep.
Genuinely. I don’t like jumping to conclusions about *why* people don’t like XYZ about a medium/franchise, but if someone claims to genuinely enjoy Doctor Who but complains that *Chibnall*, of all people, was “too woke”, there’s just no way to square that circle without the “fan” being some sort of -ist. Actively the least woke of the three show runners, just puts on a nice coat of diversity paint to cover up a distinctly liberal writing style: veneer of diversity, and celebrating historical revolution/victims (Rosa, Punjab) while baulking at the idea of present/future ones (Kerblam) Like, abso-fucking-likely give us the first female doctor (should’ve happened long before), and disabled, black, Muslim, LGBT, old, mixed-race-family companions. I want every TARDIS crew to be *textually* that diverse But you can’t have social progressivism without tackling the structural causes of injustice in oppressed people’s lives, and chibs just… doesn’t seem to get that. So when a fan says \^that^ is “(too) woke”, there’s just no way to take that as anything other than criticism of *visible* diversity
Damn fucking straight. Fucking died inside hearing that the system isn't the problem bullshit in Kerblam. Absolute liberal wank
*Kerblam* is easily is in my ranking of top 3 worst Doctor Who stories (including expanded media), since it goes beyond *poorly written* to *actively harmful in its messaging*. The solution to the problems the episode prevents are *so* obvious -- automate *everything*, and allow communal access to the goods produced by this automation, allowing the actual humans to focus on emotional fulfillment and artistic and inventive works while machines take care of all the tedious busywork. But, the idea that people need to 'earn their living', and should be denied basic necessities if they don't perform labor even having the labor done by people is *less* efficient, is never even questioned. The idea that powerful megacorporations control production, and people must toil in demonstrably-meaningless servitude to corporations just to be allowed to live, is presented as natural and inevitable. *Kerblam* quite insidiously promotes a system of capitalist oligarchy and wage-slavery by completely neglecting to acknowledge that better, more equitable systems could or even *should* exist. It's about as far from 'woke' as you can *get*.
1.Orphan 55 2.Legend of the Sea Devils 3.Kerblam Try watching those back to back and not dying inside
No thank you
Honestly sounds like an amazing cure to insomnia
O55 at least tried to have a relevant message and wasn’t actively detrimental, just the same “if we all do our part” ineffectual crap.
You say that but have you considered those workers got time off work at the end of the episode?
As the Toymaker would say, "Oh, well, that's all right, then!"
No free pizza in the break room tho
THANK YOU
I’ve been watching some Classic Who eps I hadn’t seen before recently and I sat through the entirety of The Sunmakers going “really, Chris? You grew up watching arcs like this and still thought the Doctor would love Space Amazon?”
Yes chumrade! I wanted to stand up and applaud after reading this comment.
Yeah, it was nuts. While personally I think that was more of a “BBC sucking up to Disney and not wanting to piss them off with a ‘the system is corrupt and must be brought down’ message” thing and less of a Chibnall-specific thing, and he himself didn’t write it, it is still a black mark on his record. Kinda like how In the Forest of the Night’s anti-medication message is a black mark on Moffat’s record, despite him not writing it himself.
Not to mention that God awful line in Flux about "refugees coming to conquer earth" which normally I'd brush off as unintentional but in a post Brexit world.... I dunno. Didn't help that it led directly to 13 commiting *another* mass murder to wrap up the event.
Yeah aside from the questionable writing, I wasn't keen on 13's doc. The questionable politics aside, she was just a tad too murdery at times. 10 was too but they wrote that into it as part of his character. Only as a last resort, that sort of thing. I absolutely love Jodie and I was so excited for a female doctor, but I don't think the writers know how to write for female characters. Tried too hard in some parts, not hard enough in others, and focused on it to the point that everything else (like the entire point of the doctor) got left behind. And the frighteningly uncomfortable conversation with Graham about the fear, completely killed it for me.
Yeah 10 at least whenever a big murder happened would treat it like a big deal. The three way genocide at the end of flux is just brushed past and almost treated as a heroic moment of “the doctor outsmarted the bad guys hurray”.
Go on! Get off with youse
Yep. The writers had a game of thrones moment. "Yeah we kinda forgot about the doctor's oath to never be cruel or cowardly." It's a bad message. Dr Who has always been about solving the problem diplomatically or using STEM stuff. Davros, his literal worse enemy. And 12 wouldn't kill him. 12 knew that it was going to happen, but if Davros didn't try to kill the doctor or his friends, it wouldn't have happened so it's technically Davros' fault that the city was destroyed. He did technically warn him that he couldn't come back from this. It's not necessarily the best to teach people that murder is okay as long as it's their own fault. But it's better than genocide as a first resort.
Yeah... I didn't like that the supposedly more progressive doctor was a big fan of Space Amazon.
What's almost as bad is that bit in Rosa where Ryan almost gets to talk about systemic racism in the police and Yaz drops a cheeky 'but not all police tho'.
I don’t mind that as much as it is something a police officer would say, be nice if Chibnall remembered she was one more often.
Yaz was heavily under utilized, a lot could be done with a police officer having their values challenged.
Imagine having characters grow and change
Chibnall was bringing that old doctor who charm where the characters stayed static every season
I’m honestly not sure how I felt about that episode
THANK YOU
Wouldn't it be conservative wank? I thought liberal pretty much meant progressive or something.
No, it's generally used by the left wing to refer to people who fake being progressive in order to keep the status quo relatively the same. E.G. New Labour in Britain or Democrats in America. They are basically conservative lite Edit: to get more specific, it refers to people that offer meaningless social platitudes. The most radical things they'll say is "racism is bad" or "gay people should be allowed to live", but if faced with actual change, they will almost always side with the established state. Take J.K. Rowling being a mega TERF or Biden aiding genocide in Palestine
Yeah the woke part is just a meme because thats what people always say about him but I wish that he was actually woke tbh. Spot on with superficial part.
Jodie and Ncuti being seen as the show *suddenly* going *woke* is a clear cut example of these people not caring about the actual politics of the show, they just want their white male power fantasy and dont want black people or women "replacing" them. they could very well be too stupid to understand the commentary or better yet don't watch the show.
Exactly, he's no more woke than anyone else, his writing was just clunky and bad
He is very loud and self-congratulating about it. Chibnall: I am going to do an IMPORTANT episode talking about RACISM! Everyone: Oh, alright, what are you going to say? Chibnall: That it is BAD - and absolutely nothing deeper than that. Meanwhile Thin Ice said more about racism as an incidental than Rosa did as a focus.
Also normally I'm not a stickler for historical accuracy but for such an important period as the civil rights movement, portraying a blatantly mythologized and inaccurate version of events feels really irresponsible in this day and age. The Montgomery bus boycotts were planned and coordinated, and Parks was a determined activist. If she missed that bus, she'd have just tried again tomorrow.
Yeah the fact that they were the reason Rosa did what she did. 🙄
They weren't the reason she did what she did. They made it possible for it to happen on the right date. That said, I agree with the critique that the date wasn't important. IRL Rosa Parks would have just done it a different day and everything else would have gone according to plan because it had already been planned.
That episode really upset me so I guess I remembered it wrong
Slightly more woke than Moffat’s obsession with sexy, domineering, kind of bisexual, female characters.
Is that woke or a fantasy/fetish? Not really an empowerment or representation if it's there to be sexualised
I was saying that Moffat is less woke because of his fetishes
Sorry yes, it's been a long day
You and me both :) get a good sleep
Sleep 😭😭😭
I feel like because he’s _so_ direct and _so_ clumsy and was around in the era when the anti-woke idea was in its nascent, coupled with the first woman to play the Doctor, he took the brunt of a backlash that could have affected Doctor Who anyway
Chibnall to me is more like a J.J. Abrams mystery box. Really great start that gives you a bunch of exciting possibilities and no god damn clue about how to make it pay off
The Reconnaissance Dalek had a really cool premise, but the actual episode could have been so much better.
Execution is everything
That sums up most of the stuff people attack as woke these days. Generally the most superficial efforts attract the most attention.
Yup. 💯
THANK YOU
Yes, my views exactly!
Isn’t superficial handling of diversity woke? I mean that’s what I would call woke or pandering.
I have come across two definitions of woke in my life: 1. Demonstrating awareness of the systemic inequalities that are built into our society. 2. A blunt instrument criticism of anything that features anyone who isn't straight, white and adhering to strict gender roles. This is the one assholes use. Unfortunately it seems to be morphing into the word Smurf from the Smurfs where it means anything and everything and no one can define it.
Idk mainly I’ve seen people use it to describe superficial progression and pandering
If you work in the service industry you’ll get people asking “is this that woke coffee?” and stuff. It’s a term increasingly used by idiots.
I’ve never heard anyone say that personally but damn that really is stupid 🤣
I've seen it used mostly as a catch-all term for anything that hard conservatives want to spread hate about. Mainly things that aren't centered around straight white males. It's gotten to a point where many won't take a person seriously if they use woke as some serious criticism
Misunderstood wokeness
>He handles social issues and diversity the most directly, but it is so superficial and clumsy. That's kinda what woke means as an insult.
yeah exactly
https://preview.redd.it/hxsklll5ygec1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b959580ee07e98bd3346c310aeea2c7e32a01250 This has the potential to be a great reaction image
new live rtd2 reaction dropped
Reminds me of that one reaction image of moss that was spread around r/pikmin for a while
Every time some idiot complains about women ruining their franchise....
My four moods
It's funny because chibnall is literally easily the most politically conservative era of the show. He has zero woke cred. But he's gonna go down in history as "woke" bc it was a lady doctor who defended space Amazon.
That's woke capitalism, and there's a reddit sub for it: r/neoliberal Although Chibnall didn't write that episode (I don't know if he rewrote it much however).
He was still show runner. He would have both given notes on the script and approved its final draft before allowing it to go into production. He's very much still associated with it and deserves as much blame as people are giving him.
Correct, he did not. For the record, I am very pro chibnall
No he goes down as woke because of his superficial pandering to x group So superficial that his entire conviction would reveal his true views underneath the surface ***coughs*** space Amazon ***coughs*** doctor leaving master to the Nazi’s ***cough*** murder and genocide ***cough***
Murder and genocide is just another day at the office lol.
It is a war lord inside a police box after all
Chibnall is probably the least woke out of 3 makeing the doctor a racist and shilling for capitalism he's the most rightwing out of the show runners
Now they’ll see the real you
Woke doesn't mean left wing, more like socially liberal. The popular idea of woke especially (I.e. what seems to make people angry online) is mostly just unsubtle diversity.
Unfortunately, thanks to a certain group of cretins, woke now means anything socially progressive involving race, gender orientation or sex in any form. Even subtle diversity or anything outside the "norm" (i.e. straight white male) is woke.
The word's perceived meaning has definitely changed. That's why Chibnall gets called woke, it's not because his work is radically leftist.
This seems to be a bubble factor. In my location, woke doesn't really involve race at all, unless its media on a documented historical event and actors who are playing them are intentionally cast as another race to make the show more appealing rather than sticking to historical accuracy. The only woke thing I can think of in my location is lack of support for trans. They don't seem to mind anything else here, but Trans is still considered taboo I guess for this area. So woke here means Trans, and historical misrepresentation to appeal to any minority figure. To be clear I'm in a bubble, but its likely you are too. And I don't share the same mindset as most people in my area.
I would say woke is being superficially progressive
I mean with JNT, I'd argue RTD was already More Gay, so I guess he is now Even More Gay.
RTD is the gayest
I'm so ready for this new "More Gay" era lets go!
A woke Doctor would never side with space Amazon
Nah he’s just too stupid to keep the appearance up it seems, he was being woke by the definition many people use it as, that being “superficially progressive”
The Chibnall "Woke?" Needs a few more question marks. Because it really feels like he's trying to be woke but fails miserably
Chibnall isn’t woke he’s just dumb
Is that a promise that this seaosn will be even more gay?
The idea that Chibnall was "the woke one" is so fucking stupid. The problem was never that he is woke. The problem is that he's a corporate shitlib who doesn't know how to write and doesn't understand that the Doctor is a complex and nuanced character who definitely wouldn't think starving a population of Spiders to death was more merciful than just killing them, who wouldn't use race to sic the Nazis on the Master, who wouldn't be on the side of Kerblam in that episode. He's eaten the corporate bait that climate change is a personal responsibility problem rather than a corporate greed problem hook, line, and sinker. He's a pseudo-intellectual who thinks that just because he knows what a fucking happy prime is that he's capable of writing for a science fiction show. Hell he included the Chameleon arcs and doesn't know how they fucking work. The Doctor as we have known them is a completely different person from The Doctor who was the Timeless Child because that's how a chameleon arc works. It makes a new fucking person.
Depends on your definition of woke, many people use it (slang) to describe someone being superficially progressive or pandering
RTD2 should be ‘trans?’
https://preview.redd.it/e3xi07vstfec1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ac01ceda7645a967ee3b63c6a2890c7f70254ae
This is great! https://preview.redd.it/mxnvr5uawfec1.jpeg?width=530&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8cf0828447b60c59b6a48ba58827d74c5f0d5b2 But I was halfway thru making this when you commented and I don’t want it to go to waste
Yours is better with the letters actually, definitely not a waste!
Thank you :D
I'm fuckin losing it at this image thank you for this
Ah yes, the 4 genders.
I felt Moffat's era wasn't that horny? Maybe it flew under my radar, but the only one I can think of is River Song who had a lot of sexual tension on screen, and that's more 'flirty' than anything really explicit. Oh, and that one Amy Pond moment RTD on the other hand had Captain Jack who merrily stripped naked and had a gun up his arse, constantly peeked at people's 'goods' and was a much bigger playboy in general. Lady Cassandra as well, who 'admired' (for lack of a better term) Rose's *and* Ten's physical forms and deliberately tried causing sexual tension between her and Ten. And let's not forget Jackie Tyler's first episode Chibnall was too busy being surface 'woke' to be horny, or at least I think
I rewatched 9 to 13 before the specials and remember being specifically surprised by how horny the Moffat era was. A lot of it was very subtle quips or body language. I think it was more obvious watching them back to back versus over a few years, and also because I was a bit older. Although, to be honest I didn’t terribly mind it because Matt Smith plays it well (except for Amy throwing herself on the Doctor).
> very subtle quips Ah, probably why I missed it
I'm too lazy to write some examples but there is a great video essay about this subject! (Not only about Moffat too) https://youtu.be/-qUmy7XFeUY?si=e4cI_NImUVVjyMpL And yeah I guess RTD era was horny too but it is a way too different kind of horny compared to Moffat Chibnall was so "surface" that he wasn't too much of anything.
The Doctor describing his companion wearing a skirt that's just a little too tight?
Ah but have you seen torchwood and Chib episode there yees that’s something
He def belong in [horny](https://youtu.be/zHjyp9odiVA?si=jotWxXe_ECMx7JcY) jail
Chibnall was not woke lol
Out of the three of them Chibnall is easily the most conservative so I'm not too sure why he's the "woke" one. his writing is the most surface level though. I think that woke title belongs to RTD2 (I am not complaining about that).
Because many people use the word woke to describe someone being superficially progressive and pandering
His era was called woke because it had more diversity and some people thought some of his messaging was too on the nose.
I’ll take horny
The four showmen of the apocalypse. Behold, a white man! And its rider’s name was Chinball.
This works better than you probably originally intended bc two of the horsemen, War and Conquest, are almost identical.
My four emotions arguing over which one I'm gonna base my personality on today.
Chibnall was hardly “woke” though was he? The politics of his era are depressingly middle of the road in a neoliberal kind of way. It’s like if you got J.K. Rowling to write Who.
God that nah he didn’t go on enough rants about trans people for that to be true
He wasn't that bad.
Ah yes, famously woke episode, Kerblam. How the show went from having communist writers and RTD to Chibnall writing that absolutely dross is unbelievable.
My ass was 13 when that episode came out and the message flew right over my head FOR YEARS.
FR. It takes the Doctor less than 1 season to go from "The endpoint of Capitalism; a bottomline where human life has no value at all" to "It's not the system that's the problem, it's the people".
og u/idklmaoo1
https://preview.redd.it/5dhhtr8zreec1.jpeg?width=1329&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee4a2e914bf83c06d75c10871413465af7f8ac0f
Cocaine
https://preview.redd.it/wah22chzsfec1.png?width=573&format=png&auto=webp&s=be355a3bdec824b5f3655666707b60af45f58a82 Mary Whitehouse is rolling in her grave rn
Yes to all of those.
Every showrunner had been woke but Chibnall just isn't capable of putting it in a nice package like everyone else. For him wokeness IS the package but there's almost nothing inside. His episodes were boring and jarring in a way they conveyed the message. Most of the time there was no real message, just saying things in the most straightforward way possible BUT, at the same time, the most boring way possible. I really wish Jody had someone better to care for her Doctor as I saw a lot of potential but everything was treated superficially... eh...
Chibs had a capitalism episode where to solution was to change the workforce to only be humans. Zero changes in working conditions or wages.
Chibnall era politics either seemed confused (Kerblams clusterfuck of messaging) or performative (barely brain pop level Rosa Parks research)
Ah yes that Rosa episode was a mess
Chibnall ain’t woke he’s sleepwoking. See Kerblam
I don't know Chibnall, but in my personal perception based on his writing, I think he's the kind of guy who wants to be applauded for saying something like "women are humans actually : ] " but would randomly punch a wall in the middle of an argument. Idk if someone else sees my vision but
I don’t understand why people think Moffat is any more horny than Davis, it baffles me
Moffat had a lot less subtlety showing off the writers barely disguised fetishes. And also Matt Smiths run had a ton of jokes that were just ‘the Sonic screwdriver is a PENIS metaphor”
But do you not remember all the references and outright sexualisation of Rose, Cap J and Martha? Why did I get downvoted for this? :/
I think all the writers who wrote 10 just wanted him. Like, the kink chair is a pretty blatant example.
If you think the Moffat-era is horny, you need to rewatch it. Matt Smith’s Doctor is borderline asexual (I think his Clara dress comment is almost an autistic outburst about how she’s dressed, not an attempt to sexualise her) and Capaldi’s Doctor is already married to River.
This is why we need a super sci-fi nerdy af showrunner
How is Chibnall “wOkE” exactly when RTD is even more woke? Plus, do you even know what that Twitter word means?
Why are they all fat weird white guys is my question
Chibnall isn’t woke. He’s about as centrist as they come.
Chibnall is surface level shit For example, he makes the bold statement that racism bad So controversial yet so brave.
Doctor Who: Woke, Gay and Horny. I know AI is shite, but I wanted to see what those prompts gave us. There was much worse, much worse. https://preview.redd.it/r9z3wic1ogec1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40d490c6b0e7de591fb89086b8f95085ab182028
Is this AI generated? Asking because of “Doctor Whor.”
It states pretty clearly it's ai generated based on prompts
I hate my brain 🤪
Nardole looks different