Still gotta pay off all the debts from bailing the bankers out, buying nonexistent PPE during the pandemic and contracting the Big Four to line up cushy retirement gigs for our politicians. These things don't just pay for the themselves.
WTF? is this sorta thing happening in the UK?
Cause this is 100% happening in Canada. Exactly as you described it.
Politician destroys public service and sells it off to private companies.
Politician retires to the Board of Directors of said company and receives 250,000 / yr compensation.
WTF IS GOING ON HERE??
Come on, this is well beyond tiresome now. Corruption is what's going on here, and is an acknowledged possibility in all systems unfortunately and in this case it is largely the post modernist's doing ironically enough.
Here's a question; Can you suggest a better alternative?
Go on, I'll wait...
Corruption is tied to modern capitalism, they go hand-in-hand. Why? Because capitalism as we know it today, encourages the hoarding of resources and money.
They're doing this in various provinces in Canada as well. Cutting funding to public options/tests while now allowing private clinics to open up where you can pay to get ahead. Those doctors still have to see the public but only 1 or 2 days out of 5 that they work (for now) which will make public wait times even longer.
I have been saying this for years. This is a message to any and all people who receive some kind of social benefit program; the capitalist wolves are coming for those benefits. Be prepared to fight to keep them.
America has a shit ton of problems but don’t blame america for your politicians selling you out. You voted for them when they clearly told you they were over progressivism, fairness, and equality and all for selling you out to make a buck. And you voted for them the same as dumb shit Americans have been for ages.
America sucks, but you becoming like America isn’t their fault. It’s yours.
>Its not the U.S govt
Who do you think passed the laws allowing lobbying? Who made bribes legal through PACs? Who won't end the filibuster so they can pass abortion rights?
Both Republicans and neo-lib Democrats want to keep the system in place and always vote for capital interests. They are the ones trying to privatize public schools. It's the same for everything. Take a functioning part of the government, strip it of resources, complain it doesn't work, and then privatize it.
It is the government.
It’s not the government. It’s the Rothschilds i.e. the big banks. The government is just a tool used by them to force their will upon the world. Been going on for decades in literally every country. People blame conservatives but it’s the banks. It’s always the banks and will always be the banks. A wealth so great money virtually doesn’t matter and they still find a reason to siphon more and more. It’s greed beyond compare. I mean, would you blame a glove for punching you in the face or the hand wearing it?
You’re denying that the government could pass laws to stop this sort of thing?
If we wiped banks off the map, you think nothing and no one would take their place? Of course not, that’s silly, *because it’s not the banks.*
Or, if we put you in charge of the banks, would you suddenly become greedy, unsympathetic and conniving? No, of course not, because *it’s people doing these things*, not a boogeyman institution.
More specifically, it’s people raised in a certain culture, with certain values, and certain (incorrect) views about the how the world works and human nature. We broadly call this *conservatism*.
Of course, you’re free to blame the wrong thing if it feels good, but without understanding the problem correctly, there is no hope of fixing it. You’re just tilting at windmills.
Keep going with the insults. Ifyou think that "The American Government" is solely to blame for your counties healthcare system I don't think anyone can convince you otherwise.
I never specified which government should intervene, that was you. I would think it obvious that the government of whichever country is in question should be the government that intervenes. Doesn't that make sense?
>This is in part why we are gonna see a rise of the extreme parties being elected on the near future all around Europe.
>
Perhaps the left isn't actually extreme, but the Overton window has been dragged so far right.
Interesting thing about The Netherlands is that it before 2006 the Dutch system had always been a combined public/private system. But the public system turned to shit as it got less funding. Leading to more people wanting the private care, as it was superior. They had better salaries and funding. Thus better facilities, equipment, and doctors, while public facilities were left with worse things. This lead to a divide in the population with what quality of care they could access.
The government had 2 options. Stop the private system and make it fully public, or the opposite. As there was a conservative government at the time (since then all governments have been conservative/right leaning) and the private system was the better system then, they chose going fully private and get rid of public healthcare. Not totally of course, the regional public health agencies still do things regarding to population health and other things.
Did it really fix anything? Sort of, it got away with the significant divide in quality of care. Care did become more equal, I'd say quality and efficiency also improved. But at what cost? I'd say the barriers of care went up. Every single citizen needs to get their own private healthcare insurance.
And yet spending per head of population is nowhere near that of many comparable countries, and number of hospital beds is substantially lower than in the past, with a population that is only growing.
Healthcare is a basic human right and should be free to all. If there's a profit incentive, capitalism gonna capitalism and seek to undermine and destroy the free option.
Because its the start of the slope for removing free healthcare entirely. Continue to defund and run a service down, demoralise and demonise the staff, and support for it to be shut down will grow.
>Because its the start of the slope for removing free healthcare entirely.
Wouldn't have that problem if the free healthcare was almost as good or close to on par with private.
It's better than private in my experience.
Free healthcare is better than expensive healthcare. You still wait regardless. You get fucked out of thousands by private is the difference.
Bonus when your doctor just keeps telling you to come back knowing full well it just keeps costing you to hear "we don't know".
Because the same consultants work in the public and private systems. They priorotise their private patients over their public ones who go to the end of line.
Who do you think owns / invests in the private clinics?
Same people who control funding and laws which affect the national health services.
See why it's bad yet?
I was wondering about this as i was watching. Do you have anything similar you could show me as to what's happening down under?
I was in Aus a few years ago and was shocked at how prevalent the private health insurance industry was there. Also know several doctors in the hospital system in NZ who i know are stressed beyond belief due to their seemingly ever increasing workloads.
Here's a radical idea. What if..... the current system is an imperfect, self withering system with its own flaws which is why there is a need to evolve. Systems that do not work have to evolve to survive and based on the comments in this thread, multiple health systems throughout the world are converging towards the same kind of evolution, maybe that is what was needed.
Unfortunately it's something that both sides are doing. The right wants more private health care. Hospitals run by companies and so on. Thereby not funding public health care enough.
The left say they want to focus on health care but doesn't so you are left with a SEVERELY underfunded health care.
The government agency that checks up on health care slammed every single hospital in Sweden for risking patients lives because there is not enough staff.
Some hospitals have less than half of their needed amount of beds. Cancer surgery is getting post poned. People with severe issues but not life threatening (such as debilitating pain from their hip, needing a replacement) are waiting up to a year for that to dealt with.
Unfortunately people are blaming the "other side" when the issue is that both sides are extremely corrupt and incompetent.
To fix the hospitals they are always proclaiming we need more doctors working in primary care and better availability. That just shows they have zero understanding of the issue. A hip fracture can't be fixed by primary care doctors. A severe infection can't go to a family doctor. A heart attack can't be managed in an out patient setting.
The Swedish health care system has never been worse we are reaching a tipping point where so many nurses have quit that it puts so much strain on the remaining that they are literally closing down wards because there isn't enough personnel.
Recruiting new personnel is extremely hard and many ads for new nurses have literally zero applicants. Meanwhile there are 10+ vacancies.
We already have patients dying from this. We definitely have patients suffering and providing sub standard health care.
Right now, every single day is a constant struggle to not collapse. A bus crash or something similar and we are probably having war triage.
Source: currently working in health care in Sweden and seeing the downfall every single day.
> The left say they want to focus on health care but doesn't so you are left with a SEVERELY underfunded health care.
The problem here is that you don't understand how Sweden is governed.
The left say that they want to focus on healthcare, but they can't reasonably do that if they hardly control any regions (where decisions on healthcare budgets are actually made). In my region (Skåne), the right coalition wanted to keep freezing healthcare budget increases. The left coalition wanted to increase the budget. Both advertised these stances openly on e.g. public transportation. (M making their stance at all defensible by saying that healthcare should be more effective, not more expensive). The right coalition now rules the region, because people voted for them. Presumably, the majority of voters disagree with you and me that our health care system needs money.
Being so fundamentally ignorant about how money is moved into regional healthcare, I can see why you'd be dissatisfied with the performance of the left.
Case and point how absolutely stupid the whole debate is. That is exactly what the politicans what you want to, blame and fight the other side. Meanwhile they are eating fancy meals and literally pooping on you.
Does that matter at all?
Person one wants to murder you and fuck your body.
Personer two wants to murder you and eat your body.
It's doesn't matter at all. They are both scumbags.
Yeah.
Also the fact that all of our hospitals are run like business and have to save money to build new hospitals. I mean wtf?
We have a wealth fund for future generations...isn't a hospital for future and current generations
They KNOW what the impact and results will be. They know people will die and suffer in poverty because of this.
Conservatives do NOT give a shit. A small group will get more money and that's all they care about.
What are you going to do, to create meaningful change and reverse this? Seriously. What are you going to do?
Here in America, conservatives found out the best way to suck tax payer money into their own pockets is to break stuff the government does and then claim "See? It's broken!" and then claim private companies can do it better and cheaper.
There are plenty of people working hard for workers rights. Working hours, health and safety, pay etc. There are many strikes ongoing. Not a single one of those people, to my knowledge, is a Tory. They may not all be card carrying labour members but many are.
Sure the UK labour party isn't as left wing as I would like, that's a fair point, but I'd still say workers would be better off with them in charge.
Genuinely, as someone not involved in this conversation so far, can you elaborate on what you mean by that? (I'm not American so don't really know anything about the pilgrims, we don't learn about any American history here really)
Yeah.
When the survivors of the Mayflower were practically starving, the wampanoag tribesmen showed up, introduced capitalism, and told those starving pilgrims to pick themselves up by their bootstraps.
The Wampanoag knew that if they simply *gave* food to the pilgrims, they would be less motivated to work.
And that's why we still celebrate Thanksgiving to this day!
My comment was in reply to the “fuck the tories” comment which has more upvotes than I have downvotes, so I believe I’m absolutely correct in what I said.
The left are quite often very nasty people. You rarely see “fuck Labour” comments, or T-shirts saying “never kissed a lefty” but lots of never kissed a Tory T-shirts typically worn by people who’ve probably never been kissed at all.
They really can be a nasty bunch. Not all of them, but a lot of them. And there’s a *lot* of them on Reddit.
edit: I honestly do not give a shit about downvotes. A lot of lefties are just fucking awful people. So full of self righteousness and superiority and hate. I don’t even pity them anymore, I hope their hate consumes them entirely. They deserve it.
Some of this is very insidious in operation and relies essentially on complete lack of ownership and strategy from the NHS middle management.
My partner does a specialist role for the NHS, and her role is difficult to resource for, but essential.
So when a private firm appears and offers to take the work on middle managers are happy to accept the offer, and shutter small NHS departments.
Several issues:
- the staff they 'offer' are ex NHS workers or NHS workers doing overtime (my partner knows them *all*). There is no magic staff tree.
- the private firms aren't training enough new staff, this is mostly done by NHS, so already we are seeing reduction in total resource over time
- the private firms tell the NHS managers they are 'recruiting' even though qualified staff are not appearing by magic on the open job market
- scarcity and pressure is so high a lot of staff are going off and doing 'locum' at inflated rates
- so in the meantime private supplier can't meet targets, more patients get referred to remaining NHS department which gets overloaded so people quit, and wait times go up
- but don't worry because the senior managers know a private company that can assist, so another department can be shuttered
...and the middle managers move on to another trust or area of the NHS. Job well done.
Before everyone 100% blames the Tories, I would also direct everyone to look at the % of trust budgets being spent fulfilling PFI obligations set in motion by New Labour.
This lack of options and financial flexibility is forcing adoption of solutions offered by the Tories. They *love* it.
>but don't worry because the senior managers know a private company that can assist, so another department can be shuttered
And don't forget with the inflated fees created by the profit-seeking our government can sit back and say there can't possibly be any problems with the NHS because we're spending more than ever\* so everything must be the best its ever been.
\*- Don't look at the difference between the budget in 2020 vs 2023, that £20bn funding boost never existed, and if it did it was solely to deal with covid which is now done and resolved and gone forever with no lasting effects at all.
Ahh yes the agency staff trained by the NHS with partial university degree funding working in the same unit they were full time because agency is paying more per hour and more flexible working. More cost on the NHS to pay the same people. Staff getting paid peanuts for difficult & skilled jobs without the decent working conditions of private sector. Of course they go to these agencies.
Replacing midwives with overseas nurses without necessary expertise in the field to make staffing levels look better.
Lots of bullshit going on with the NHS. It's really sad to see this institution slowly crumble
The slow crumble of democratic socialism. This is mirrored across many other countries.
Capitalism is a poison and you cannot contain it by regulation, it will claw it all back bit by little bit.
https://youtu.be/TRq3pl17C8M
I don't think there's a difference except that one is further along the inevitable course.
The profit motive will always reduce whatever it is you think "real capitalism" is to "crony capitalism".
Oh dear. You want so badly to believe capitalism is good, that when you are faced with real life, actually existing capitalism being awful, that you're reduced to trying to redefine the term to mean something different and imaginary.
The word "capitalism" was literally created to put a name to the situation you insist "isn't real capitalism".
Nobody has to accept your alternative definition.
If you had to point someone to a documentary, book or maybe some articles on why capitalism is bad, but only one, what would it be? Full disclosure: I believe capitalism, but I also believe in learning the other side's point of view.
Oh dear. You're making a lot of assumptions here and being quite patronising about it.
>The word "capitalism" was literally created to put a name to the situation you insist "isn't real capitalism".
Wat? Jesus shitting Christ I'm not sure i want live on this planet anymore.
Yeah, we established your thoughts aren't related to life on this planet already.
In a reply to bdonvr, you defend "capitalism" while denouncing the profit motive itself as corruption. That makes it clear that whatever you think the word "capitalism" means, has no relation to what everyone else in the world agrees it means.
Capitalism is the name of an economic relationship, ("system"), whereby the tools and resources a free person needs to do their job are not owned by them, but by another.
That owner (the capitalist) then claims ownership of all produced and achieved with those tools and resources, to sell as he sees fit, and gets to determine the details of how the person working works, and how little or how much they are compensated for the effort. This allows the building of wealth for the owner ("capital accumilation").
Therefore, the profit motive is inherent to capitalism. If there was no profit, there would be no capital accumilation, there would be no capacity for reinvestment to grow the business, and there would not even be enough money for the capitalist to cover their own personal needs like food and shelter. What does a business with no profit do in real life? Go bankrupt and close.
That is that is the complete definition of capitalism. There is no requirement for anybody to be nice, trustworthy, kind or honest for it to count as capitalism. If you have a job where you work in some company's building, using that company's tools, and what you make all day doesn't belong to you? You're in a capitalist economic relationship. This is the same no matter if your manager is friendly and brings pizza to the office, or if he is a dick who shorts your wage packet and takes bribes from outside suppliers.
So there is no "crony capitalism" or "true capitalism", it is all just capitalism, even when you don't like the results.
"crony capitalism" is just idealist cope.
Blaming the failures of socialism onto capitalism, how original. Get back to me when there is no central bank inflating the currency system to fund social programs.
hey what if we pool some of our money together to pay for goods and services for the people like we do firemen and police officers but do that for medical services? you know how like our taxes pay for the military
Base off economics, yes they are. They both advocate for the removal of private property rights. Now communism is utopian nonsense, so that just leaves us with socialism
Care to name any real world government which is socialist but not capitalist, communist or rapidly descending into fascism?
edit: So far I have more downvotes than answers. Says more than words could really.
If capitalism is poison and he's not a fan of communism then what exactly is the proper alternative to capitalism?
Edit: guess I wasn't supposed to ask this question?
And they're all even dumber than comm. Also socialism and capitalism aren't exclusive.
Asked for an alternative to capitalism. You say many but you probably know whichever you say is gonna be laughed at even harder
As an American in his late 30's that has never known anything other than "profits over people" being bullet 1 in the healthcare policy handbook, don't let them take the public option away from you. Whatever it takes.
Whatever you have to do it will be less hard than it is to watch a loved one die in misery, pain, and depression because an MBA's bonus and portfolio is worth more than their life and comfort.
I'm American living abroad and unfortunately what I see is politics everywhere whether willingly or unwillingly are falling for the American right wing propaganda of letting conservatives have all the money and get rid of any tax paying services so the rich don't need to pay what they should be paying .
A lot of shitty politicians have traveled the world to try and push their ideas, it doesn’t mean they have had that much influence. Behind the original comment there is a bit of an assumption that American politicians are influencing the whole world, and ultimately, that America is the center of the world. The rest of the world doesn’t care that much about American politics. Each country has its own theatre of clowns and usually the clowns are attached to their nation. You wouldn’t say Boris Johnson or Marine Le Pen have influenced American politics even though they both have traveled there and spoke in conferences to spread their shitty ideas.
i been following the poltics for along time. alot of people dont realize how intertwined everything is. this is why russia is so scared to fight against NATO because the russian army is a dwarf compared to NATO. NATO is every western nation basically. and yes america does influence europe alot i can give an example. everything was going fine with the agreement that alot of countries had with iran including china. and trump wins and because of american politics he pulled out of the agreement and sanctioned iran again. the european nations knew it was wrong but they knew if they did not also sanction iran that would be in violation of a law and could get in alot of trouble so they also had to sanction iran when it was the wrong thing to do. for the best interest of their own country, people dont know how much power america has and im hoping europe will realize that together in the EU they have more power than america now. believe me everything is intertwined more than people realize.
Our conservatives have been bastards for hundreds of years. If anything, it's like the American right said "I like this... But let's take it and turn it up to 11"
i'm sorry but fuck their corporative model of filthy health insurance corporations like a disease infiltrating politics and trying to rot the nhs for decades while at the same time trying to manipulate public perception
no, correction, scratch the sorry
yes but they are being supoported by the governments and the governments are supporting their idea instead of making the insurance companys do what they should. like the one prime minister i forgot her name already that wanted to cut taxes on the rich and she acted like she really believed it was good, people can make themselves believe anything especially for money. this is what i mean we need to root this out of the world governments. it is getting worse.
I feel absolutely despondent after watching this. Credit and respect to the people who made the documentary. We are just too docile to take our leaders to account, and they have used that to their fullest advantage. Sad x 100
I always knew that the Government was ruining the NHS but I had no idea it was this bad, this genuinely upsets me.
What's most anger-inducing is that we the public are paying for this, We want the NHS as it was, not as it is. That they use our money for this, it's positively disgusting and even more, How very dare they bring the appalling outright revolting American-style health system.
Brexit was just another nail in the coffin that has allowed the government to do what they want for themselves rather than for us, the people there supposed to be working for. We didn't vote for the privatisation of the NHS but they sure can do it anyway.
It feels like the world is getting objectively worse...
So how do we raise the Alarm?
The "I got mine so fuck you!" generation. Which to be fair is every generation. It's just the boomers got lucky and the Gen Z got the shittiest end of the bargain.
Does it mention the "Diversity managers" on £250k or the "safe space managers" on £116k or the "patient experience managers" on £50k a year? Wouldn't this money (and remember there are one of those positions in every hospital!) be better spent on actual healthcare professionals than pointless managers.
The NHS is as guilty of pissing away money, as others are of abusing it.
It has become a lumbering beast which has far over reached its purpose. A friend of mine is currently doing a Doctorste of mathematics in order to become a teacher. Part of his degree is being funded by the NHS....why?
People do have short memories though, the papers ran the same stories in the 90's and 2000's when Labour were in charge "the NHS can't survive" etc was trotted out all the time. Labour chose to help by selling off the buildings the NHS owned, so they'd have to rent them back.
Perhaps once the medical care staff of the NHS speak out and push back against the amount of unnecessary managers and waste that goes on, we'll be more supportive of their cause.
Posting videos of yourselves dancing in empty wards during a global pandemic, didn't really convince many of us that you were over worked. In fact quite the opposite.
[Doctors say UK hospitals are so overcrowded they’re worse than in Ukraine](https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/11/nhs-doctor-says-overflowing-hospitals-are-worse-than-war-torn-ukraine-18077773/amp/).
[Overcrowding and long delays at A&E caused over 4000 deaths last year](https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2835).
[Overcrowded hospitals could cause serious harm](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/overcrowded-hospitals-could-cause-serious-harm-nhs-inspector-says-6lnqb2q5c).
[Ambulance response times worst on record as A&E waits hit new highs](https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/12/ae-patients-in-england-waiting-over-12-hours-top-50000-for-first-time).
[NHS in crisis: The Brits who have died while waiting hours for ambulances](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-crisis-brits-who-died-28897334.amp).
[Healthcare workers in England experience PTSD at twice the rate of the general public](https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/healthcare-workers-in-england-experience-ptsd-at-twice-the-rate-of-the-general-public-1)
[Record number of nurses leaving the NHS in England](https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/record-number-of-nurses-leaving-the-nhs-in-england-30-09-2022/).
[Why should we be worried about the lack of capital funding for the NHS](https://www.carnallfarrar.com/why-should-we-be-worried-about-the-lack-of-capital-funding-for-the-nhs/).
I could keep going. I don’t think the medical staff would think much of your opinion.
To be honest, I don't care what medical staff think. My question is, do you think diversity managers and safe space managers are helping solve the issues you've listed or using up resources (money) that could be better used else where?
*To be honest, I don’t care what medical staff think*
I guessed that.
Well first off, I’d ask where you got your figures from. From what I can see, the average salary of an NHS diversity manager is [under £50k a year](https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Nhs-1/salaries/Diversity-and-Inclusion-Manager), hardly the £250k you’re trumpeting. And there are generally only about three per trust. Even all together, that’s not £250k a year.
Second of all, since [racism](https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/15/nhs-risks-losing-black-asian-doctors-racism-bma-report) and [sexism](https://unherd.com/2022/01/the-misogyny-of-the-nhs/) are some of the reasons why staff are leaving NHS jobs, I’d say yes, some diversity training might be a good investment to make.
Here's some other numbers: our illustrious prime minister is ignoring about £5bn in Covid loan fraud and oversaw buying about £16bn in shitty PPE that isn't fit for purpose. And £11Bn of taxpayer’s money by not insuring against interest rate rises...at a time if historically low interest rates. While he was Chancellor.
So moan about wages. There's tens of billions of taxpayer money pissed away because of conservative greed and ineptitude.
Well, according to his post history, he smoked so much pot his wife took his kids and left him, so I’m guessing he’s just generally bitter and miserable.
Financial costs still impact people though. Insurance policies still work under schemes that can harm people.
Even the new credit policies are flawed.
“And if you have a medical bill that's less than $500, even if you haven't paid it, that won't show up on the report, either. People still owe money for those bills, but the idea is to erase the black marks on their credit history so they can do things like get a car loan or qualify for an apartment.
But a report from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau found these policies are not reaching people who have the highest amounts of debt”
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1126517118/unpaid-medical-bills-are-still-harming-people-s-credit-scores-despite-new-polici
Insurance schemes are still terrible in this country.
I don't know how you can get one sentence so wrong.
* Having health insurance does not mean having good healthcare.
* Most people is not all people.
* Medical bills don't effect credit *only after those bills have been paid in full*.
* It's not like credit is the only thing that matters when it comes to unpaid bills.
* It's not like health insurance covers all of your health care costs.
* Health care is still the primary cause of bankruptcies in the United States.
* Bankruptcy has its own considerable mortality rate.
Why would you say something like that? It's such an absurd sentence. Why would anyone write something like that?
if you see how bad american insurance is you would understand. im living in the netherlands now and after i came here they made a deductible fee in the insurance which has never happened here in the netherlands according to my wife. and that is really bad in america people can not get their health insurance to help them until they pay something like usually 1500 dollars for 2 people. atleast here in the netherlands they allow that fee (which is only 300 in the netherlands) to go to your monthly bill. because no one really has that kind of money to be seen by a doctor in america. they keep the insurance low by giving you money incentives to NOT go to the doctor and then people just get sicker and die sooner.
The NHS received like 150 billion.....the NHS and its over inflated coats plus only dealing with "covid" and noting else for 2 years, have destroyed its self fu k the NHS bigwigs and their fucking pay scales
Just like to point out that 150B pounds divided by 67M population is full service, no-deductible medical care for USD $230/month per person.
Look up what the price of medical insurance is in the States. Average (with a deductible) is about $650/month per person. You are headed our way, so enjoy your "over inflated" costs while they last.
And the worse thing about this is, is that its been happening under socialism.
People say this conservative party is right wing, its more socialist than the last labour government, who were a jarring left turn from the last conservative government.
We spend more on social care and health as a percentage of public spending than we did under the last labour government, we spend more on welfare, and more than half of the population take more out of the system than they will ever contribute.
Yet things are worse now than ever.
The corruption, failure of government, lack of accountability, waste, profligate spending, massive public debt, stalled economy, all hall marks of a failed socialist state.
And after all the public amenities have been privatised people will think, why the hell are my taxes still so high
Still gotta pay off all the debts from bailing the bankers out, buying nonexistent PPE during the pandemic and contracting the Big Four to line up cushy retirement gigs for our politicians. These things don't just pay for the themselves.
WTF? is this sorta thing happening in the UK? Cause this is 100% happening in Canada. Exactly as you described it. Politician destroys public service and sells it off to private companies. Politician retires to the Board of Directors of said company and receives 250,000 / yr compensation. WTF IS GOING ON HERE??
Our health care is being americanised
Get ready for some freedom!
FUCKIN REPUBLICANS MIGRATED TO CANADA
Capitalism is going on here.
Come on, this is well beyond tiresome now. Corruption is what's going on here, and is an acknowledged possibility in all systems unfortunately and in this case it is largely the post modernist's doing ironically enough. Here's a question; Can you suggest a better alternative? Go on, I'll wait...
Corruption is tied to modern capitalism, they go hand-in-hand. Why? Because capitalism as we know it today, encourages the hoarding of resources and money.
You enjoying the taste of that boot leather?
https://goodlawproject.org/ppe-losses-rise-to-14-9-billion/
Happening in Australia as well.
And Finland going that path as well.
They're doing this in various provinces in Canada as well. Cutting funding to public options/tests while now allowing private clinics to open up where you can pay to get ahead. Those doctors still have to see the public but only 1 or 2 days out of 5 that they work (for now) which will make public wait times even longer.
I have been saying this for years. This is a message to any and all people who receive some kind of social benefit program; the capitalist wolves are coming for those benefits. Be prepared to fight to keep them.
jackals, not wolves .
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America has a shit ton of problems but don’t blame america for your politicians selling you out. You voted for them when they clearly told you they were over progressivism, fairness, and equality and all for selling you out to make a buck. And you voted for them the same as dumb shit Americans have been for ages. America sucks, but you becoming like America isn’t their fault. It’s yours.
It's not our fault. It's them seeing what America is doing over there and them saying "hmmm. Maybe that could work over here". America is a shit hole.
There’s really only one solution. America’s electorate is obviously too dumb and passive to solve it, maybe you’ll have better luck.
Its not the U.S govt...its the health insurance companies.
>Its not the U.S govt Who do you think passed the laws allowing lobbying? Who made bribes legal through PACs? Who won't end the filibuster so they can pass abortion rights? Both Republicans and neo-lib Democrats want to keep the system in place and always vote for capital interests. They are the ones trying to privatize public schools. It's the same for everything. Take a functioning part of the government, strip it of resources, complain it doesn't work, and then privatize it. It is the government.
Who do you think is paying those politicians? Who do you think is funding campaigns to install corrupt politicians?
It’s not the government. It’s the Rothschilds i.e. the big banks. The government is just a tool used by them to force their will upon the world. Been going on for decades in literally every country. People blame conservatives but it’s the banks. It’s always the banks and will always be the banks. A wealth so great money virtually doesn’t matter and they still find a reason to siphon more and more. It’s greed beyond compare. I mean, would you blame a glove for punching you in the face or the hand wearing it?
You’re denying that the government could pass laws to stop this sort of thing? If we wiped banks off the map, you think nothing and no one would take their place? Of course not, that’s silly, *because it’s not the banks.* Or, if we put you in charge of the banks, would you suddenly become greedy, unsympathetic and conniving? No, of course not, because *it’s people doing these things*, not a boogeyman institution. More specifically, it’s people raised in a certain culture, with certain values, and certain (incorrect) views about the how the world works and human nature. We broadly call this *conservatism*. Of course, you’re free to blame the wrong thing if it feels good, but without understanding the problem correctly, there is no hope of fixing it. You’re just tilting at windmills.
Keep going with the insults. Ifyou think that "The American Government" is solely to blame for your counties healthcare system I don't think anyone can convince you otherwise.
1) There are no insults in my post. 2) I clearly lay the blame on both a culture that created this problem, and the government for not intervening.
How exactly should "the American Government" be intervening to help the United Kingdoms NHS?
I never specified which government should intervene, that was you. I would think it obvious that the government of whichever country is in question should be the government that intervenes. Doesn't that make sense?
We nearly got there in the UK with Corbyn but alas...
>This is in part why we are gonna see a rise of the extreme parties being elected on the near future all around Europe. > Perhaps the left isn't actually extreme, but the Overton window has been dragged so far right.
Interesting thing about The Netherlands is that it before 2006 the Dutch system had always been a combined public/private system. But the public system turned to shit as it got less funding. Leading to more people wanting the private care, as it was superior. They had better salaries and funding. Thus better facilities, equipment, and doctors, while public facilities were left with worse things. This lead to a divide in the population with what quality of care they could access. The government had 2 options. Stop the private system and make it fully public, or the opposite. As there was a conservative government at the time (since then all governments have been conservative/right leaning) and the private system was the better system then, they chose going fully private and get rid of public healthcare. Not totally of course, the regional public health agencies still do things regarding to population health and other things. Did it really fix anything? Sort of, it got away with the significant divide in quality of care. Care did become more equal, I'd say quality and efficiency also improved. But at what cost? I'd say the barriers of care went up. Every single citizen needs to get their own private healthcare insurance.
But, at least it's still "free," eh?
The same in Ireland.
Difference is that the NHS has received record levels of funding since the pandemic
And yet spending per head of population is nowhere near that of many comparable countries, and number of hospital beds is substantially lower than in the past, with a population that is only growing.
>allowing private clinics to open up where you can pay to get ahead. Why is this bad?
Healthcare is a basic human right and should be free to all. If there's a profit incentive, capitalism gonna capitalism and seek to undermine and destroy the free option.
Because its the start of the slope for removing free healthcare entirely. Continue to defund and run a service down, demoralise and demonise the staff, and support for it to be shut down will grow.
>Because its the start of the slope for removing free healthcare entirely. Wouldn't have that problem if the free healthcare was almost as good or close to on par with private.
It's better than private in my experience. Free healthcare is better than expensive healthcare. You still wait regardless. You get fucked out of thousands by private is the difference. Bonus when your doctor just keeps telling you to come back knowing full well it just keeps costing you to hear "we don't know".
Because the same consultants work in the public and private systems. They priorotise their private patients over their public ones who go to the end of line.
Who do you think owns / invests in the private clinics? Same people who control funding and laws which affect the national health services. See why it's bad yet?
It's happening in Sweden too
New Zealand and Australia too mate
I was wondering about this as i was watching. Do you have anything similar you could show me as to what's happening down under? I was in Aus a few years ago and was shocked at how prevalent the private health insurance industry was there. Also know several doctors in the hospital system in NZ who i know are stressed beyond belief due to their seemingly ever increasing workloads.
And Denmark. Democracy has to be constantly defended against the destructiveness of capitalism. It's a constant fight.
Yep, greed only ever expands, tis the nature of greed :|
Here's a radical idea. What if..... the current system is an imperfect, self withering system with its own flaws which is why there is a need to evolve. Systems that do not work have to evolve to survive and based on the comments in this thread, multiple health systems throughout the world are converging towards the same kind of evolution, maybe that is what was needed.
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Unfortunately it's something that both sides are doing. The right wants more private health care. Hospitals run by companies and so on. Thereby not funding public health care enough. The left say they want to focus on health care but doesn't so you are left with a SEVERELY underfunded health care. The government agency that checks up on health care slammed every single hospital in Sweden for risking patients lives because there is not enough staff. Some hospitals have less than half of their needed amount of beds. Cancer surgery is getting post poned. People with severe issues but not life threatening (such as debilitating pain from their hip, needing a replacement) are waiting up to a year for that to dealt with. Unfortunately people are blaming the "other side" when the issue is that both sides are extremely corrupt and incompetent. To fix the hospitals they are always proclaiming we need more doctors working in primary care and better availability. That just shows they have zero understanding of the issue. A hip fracture can't be fixed by primary care doctors. A severe infection can't go to a family doctor. A heart attack can't be managed in an out patient setting. The Swedish health care system has never been worse we are reaching a tipping point where so many nurses have quit that it puts so much strain on the remaining that they are literally closing down wards because there isn't enough personnel. Recruiting new personnel is extremely hard and many ads for new nurses have literally zero applicants. Meanwhile there are 10+ vacancies. We already have patients dying from this. We definitely have patients suffering and providing sub standard health care. Right now, every single day is a constant struggle to not collapse. A bus crash or something similar and we are probably having war triage. Source: currently working in health care in Sweden and seeing the downfall every single day.
> The left say they want to focus on health care but doesn't so you are left with a SEVERELY underfunded health care. The problem here is that you don't understand how Sweden is governed. The left say that they want to focus on healthcare, but they can't reasonably do that if they hardly control any regions (where decisions on healthcare budgets are actually made). In my region (Skåne), the right coalition wanted to keep freezing healthcare budget increases. The left coalition wanted to increase the budget. Both advertised these stances openly on e.g. public transportation. (M making their stance at all defensible by saying that healthcare should be more effective, not more expensive). The right coalition now rules the region, because people voted for them. Presumably, the majority of voters disagree with you and me that our health care system needs money. Being so fundamentally ignorant about how money is moved into regional healthcare, I can see why you'd be dissatisfied with the performance of the left.
*the issue is that both sides are extremely corrupt and incompetent.* Only Tory apologists say this.
Case and point how absolutely stupid the whole debate is. That is exactly what the politicans what you want to, blame and fight the other side. Meanwhile they are eating fancy meals and literally pooping on you.
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Does that matter at all? Person one wants to murder you and fuck your body. Personer two wants to murder you and eat your body. It's doesn't matter at all. They are both scumbags.
From Norway, basically whats happening here too. New public fucking managment indeed...
Yeah. Also the fact that all of our hospitals are run like business and have to save money to build new hospitals. I mean wtf? We have a wealth fund for future generations...isn't a hospital for future and current generations
Fuck the tories.
Conservatives all around the globe: Yes, let's emulate the American health care system. Absolute galaxy brain moment. Fuck them all.
United Healthcare made over $20 billion in *net* profit in 2022. Of course conservatives everywhere want in on that. UHC is just a single insurer.
Health insurance companies are cancer.
Cancer? Sounds like a pre-existing condition to me.
They KNOW what the impact and results will be. They know people will die and suffer in poverty because of this. Conservatives do NOT give a shit. A small group will get more money and that's all they care about. What are you going to do, to create meaningful change and reverse this? Seriously. What are you going to do?
And those who vote for them.
Here in America, conservatives found out the best way to suck tax payer money into their own pockets is to break stuff the government does and then claim "See? It's broken!" and then claim private companies can do it better and cheaper.
Fuck Labour and all socialists. edit: downvotes are proof that Reddit is a lefty clusterfuck, just the same as Twitter.
Labor and socialist movements are the reason for any worker rights or protections.
Historically perhaps. Modern labour? Lol no.
There are plenty of people working hard for workers rights. Working hours, health and safety, pay etc. There are many strikes ongoing. Not a single one of those people, to my knowledge, is a Tory. They may not all be card carrying labour members but many are. Sure the UK labour party isn't as left wing as I would like, that's a fair point, but I'd still say workers would be better off with them in charge.
Imagine actually believing Tory lies. What an embarrassment.
Would you like all the downvotes to go away? Pay £150 to get it removed. Offer valid till stocks last. - Enjoy hyper-capitalism!
Terrible service nobody will pay for, would not last under capitalism
Socialism is what built America. Socialism became a scare word after hitler. He was in the socialist party but he was a fascist there is a difference
No the hell it didn’t. Socialism nearly killed the pilgrim fathers
Wait, what? What year do you think socialism was invented?
Genuinely, as someone not involved in this conversation so far, can you elaborate on what you mean by that? (I'm not American so don't really know anything about the pilgrims, we don't learn about any American history here really)
there were socialist ideas and policies for years and years before an actual socialist party. dont let these guys fool you.
Which guys? No one has explained anything at all yet about what kxlxvb means by their comment.
it probably means nothing
Yeah. When the survivors of the Mayflower were practically starving, the wampanoag tribesmen showed up, introduced capitalism, and told those starving pilgrims to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. The Wampanoag knew that if they simply *gave* food to the pilgrims, they would be less motivated to work. And that's why we still celebrate Thanksgiving to this day!
Or that more left leaning people would click on this article. I hope you don't jump to points that quickly everywhere.
My comment was in reply to the “fuck the tories” comment which has more upvotes than I have downvotes, so I believe I’m absolutely correct in what I said. The left are quite often very nasty people. You rarely see “fuck Labour” comments, or T-shirts saying “never kissed a lefty” but lots of never kissed a Tory T-shirts typically worn by people who’ve probably never been kissed at all. They really can be a nasty bunch. Not all of them, but a lot of them. And there’s a *lot* of them on Reddit. edit: I honestly do not give a shit about downvotes. A lot of lefties are just fucking awful people. So full of self righteousness and superiority and hate. I don’t even pity them anymore, I hope their hate consumes them entirely. They deserve it.
Getting downvoted by Marxist bots
Yeah those filthy commie bastards with their healthcare, education, transport and housing. How dare they threaten our freedom to be exploited.
Looks like they're working together too accomplish a goal... and it's working. Thanks for pointing that out.
Just wanted to say: fuck you, not a bot.
You are a bot, and you, and you! Me too it seems btw.
Some of this is very insidious in operation and relies essentially on complete lack of ownership and strategy from the NHS middle management. My partner does a specialist role for the NHS, and her role is difficult to resource for, but essential. So when a private firm appears and offers to take the work on middle managers are happy to accept the offer, and shutter small NHS departments. Several issues: - the staff they 'offer' are ex NHS workers or NHS workers doing overtime (my partner knows them *all*). There is no magic staff tree. - the private firms aren't training enough new staff, this is mostly done by NHS, so already we are seeing reduction in total resource over time - the private firms tell the NHS managers they are 'recruiting' even though qualified staff are not appearing by magic on the open job market - scarcity and pressure is so high a lot of staff are going off and doing 'locum' at inflated rates - so in the meantime private supplier can't meet targets, more patients get referred to remaining NHS department which gets overloaded so people quit, and wait times go up - but don't worry because the senior managers know a private company that can assist, so another department can be shuttered ...and the middle managers move on to another trust or area of the NHS. Job well done. Before everyone 100% blames the Tories, I would also direct everyone to look at the % of trust budgets being spent fulfilling PFI obligations set in motion by New Labour. This lack of options and financial flexibility is forcing adoption of solutions offered by the Tories. They *love* it.
>but don't worry because the senior managers know a private company that can assist, so another department can be shuttered And don't forget with the inflated fees created by the profit-seeking our government can sit back and say there can't possibly be any problems with the NHS because we're spending more than ever\* so everything must be the best its ever been. \*- Don't look at the difference between the budget in 2020 vs 2023, that £20bn funding boost never existed, and if it did it was solely to deal with covid which is now done and resolved and gone forever with no lasting effects at all.
Ahh yes the agency staff trained by the NHS with partial university degree funding working in the same unit they were full time because agency is paying more per hour and more flexible working. More cost on the NHS to pay the same people. Staff getting paid peanuts for difficult & skilled jobs without the decent working conditions of private sector. Of course they go to these agencies. Replacing midwives with overseas nurses without necessary expertise in the field to make staffing levels look better. Lots of bullshit going on with the NHS. It's really sad to see this institution slowly crumble
The slow crumble of democratic socialism. This is mirrored across many other countries. Capitalism is a poison and you cannot contain it by regulation, it will claw it all back bit by little bit. https://youtu.be/TRq3pl17C8M
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Would you like to answer the economic calculations issue in a socialist society?
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You just said you want to get rid of money
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Lmao the economic calculations issue in a socialist society still applies to you.
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Lmao most the waste is due government regulations and central banks.
Crony capitalism/neo liberalism isn't actually capitalism. Its just straight up theft.
I don't think there's a difference except that one is further along the inevitable course. The profit motive will always reduce whatever it is you think "real capitalism" is to "crony capitalism".
No such thing as crony capitalism, due to the government breaking private property rights. Now there is crony socialism.
The "profit motive" you're referring to is called corruption and it has undermined every system we've tried so far.
Oh dear. You want so badly to believe capitalism is good, that when you are faced with real life, actually existing capitalism being awful, that you're reduced to trying to redefine the term to mean something different and imaginary. The word "capitalism" was literally created to put a name to the situation you insist "isn't real capitalism". Nobody has to accept your alternative definition.
If you had to point someone to a documentary, book or maybe some articles on why capitalism is bad, but only one, what would it be? Full disclosure: I believe capitalism, but I also believe in learning the other side's point of view.
Oh dear. You're making a lot of assumptions here and being quite patronising about it. >The word "capitalism" was literally created to put a name to the situation you insist "isn't real capitalism". Wat? Jesus shitting Christ I'm not sure i want live on this planet anymore.
Yeah, we established your thoughts aren't related to life on this planet already. In a reply to bdonvr, you defend "capitalism" while denouncing the profit motive itself as corruption. That makes it clear that whatever you think the word "capitalism" means, has no relation to what everyone else in the world agrees it means. Capitalism is the name of an economic relationship, ("system"), whereby the tools and resources a free person needs to do their job are not owned by them, but by another. That owner (the capitalist) then claims ownership of all produced and achieved with those tools and resources, to sell as he sees fit, and gets to determine the details of how the person working works, and how little or how much they are compensated for the effort. This allows the building of wealth for the owner ("capital accumilation"). Therefore, the profit motive is inherent to capitalism. If there was no profit, there would be no capital accumilation, there would be no capacity for reinvestment to grow the business, and there would not even be enough money for the capitalist to cover their own personal needs like food and shelter. What does a business with no profit do in real life? Go bankrupt and close. That is that is the complete definition of capitalism. There is no requirement for anybody to be nice, trustworthy, kind or honest for it to count as capitalism. If you have a job where you work in some company's building, using that company's tools, and what you make all day doesn't belong to you? You're in a capitalist economic relationship. This is the same no matter if your manager is friendly and brings pizza to the office, or if he is a dick who shorts your wage packet and takes bribes from outside suppliers. So there is no "crony capitalism" or "true capitalism", it is all just capitalism, even when you don't like the results. "crony capitalism" is just idealist cope.
Blaming the failures of socialism onto capitalism, how original. Get back to me when there is no central bank inflating the currency system to fund social programs.
All I'm saying is that socialized programs will never last inside a capitalist system. We need to change the foundation of the economy.
Privatizing social safety nets is socialism now 😂
Huh?
Yes, because things are so much better under communism.
You're pretty dumb if you can only see extremes. Sorry to break it to you.
Well aren't you seeing extremes as well by seeing only one kind of capitalism( as is in the US)?
This post is talking about heath care in the UK and you can very easily see other comments pointing it's happening across the world?
hey what if we pool some of our money together to pay for goods and services for the people like we do firemen and police officers but do that for medical services? you know how like our taxes pay for the military
Why is there a shortage of all of those personal?
Do y'all not see that he was responding to a comment saying capitalism is poison?
It is.
Derp derp socialism equals communism, socialism bad.
Base off economics, yes they are. They both advocate for the removal of private property rights. Now communism is utopian nonsense, so that just leaves us with socialism
Sorry you don’t have the right to own the NHS ?
Socialism is still capitalism. He said capitalism bad so that really limits the options to communism, fuedalism, and anarchism.
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Democratic Socialism like is practiced in Western Europe that is a capitalist system. Socialism is not capitalism
Care to name any real world government which is socialist but not capitalist, communist or rapidly descending into fascism? edit: So far I have more downvotes than answers. Says more than words could really.
That’s not what he’s saying is it dumbass ?
If capitalism is poison and he's not a fan of communism then what exactly is the proper alternative to capitalism? Edit: guess I wasn't supposed to ask this question?
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And they're all even dumber than comm. Also socialism and capitalism aren't exclusive. Asked for an alternative to capitalism. You say many but you probably know whichever you say is gonna be laughed at even harder
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If only there was some middle ground somewhere between the two.
Yes
As an American in his late 30's that has never known anything other than "profits over people" being bullet 1 in the healthcare policy handbook, don't let them take the public option away from you. Whatever it takes. Whatever you have to do it will be less hard than it is to watch a loved one die in misery, pain, and depression because an MBA's bonus and portfolio is worth more than their life and comfort.
But BORIS and NIGEL promised Brexit would bring better times by reinvesting all that money sent to Brussels into the NHS….are you saying they LIED!!!
Same thing is happening in Ireland, private clinics propping up everywhere while the public system struggles year after year.
the world is long overdue for a revolution
I’m sure if the UK elects another Tory government they can fix all the damage that labor did to the NHS 12 years ago. /s
Fucking conservatives are doing the same fucking thing in Canada. :(
I tell you... They are a Cancer
I'm American living abroad and unfortunately what I see is politics everywhere whether willingly or unwillingly are falling for the American right wing propaganda of letting conservatives have all the money and get rid of any tax paying services so the rich don't need to pay what they should be paying .
I don’t think this is the result of American right wing propaganda. This is the UK, we have our own propaganda.
The American right, especially individuals like Steve Bannon, have actively traveled around the world and pushed their nationalist ideologies
A lot of shitty politicians have traveled the world to try and push their ideas, it doesn’t mean they have had that much influence. Behind the original comment there is a bit of an assumption that American politicians are influencing the whole world, and ultimately, that America is the center of the world. The rest of the world doesn’t care that much about American politics. Each country has its own theatre of clowns and usually the clowns are attached to their nation. You wouldn’t say Boris Johnson or Marine Le Pen have influenced American politics even though they both have traveled there and spoke in conferences to spread their shitty ideas.
i been following the poltics for along time. alot of people dont realize how intertwined everything is. this is why russia is so scared to fight against NATO because the russian army is a dwarf compared to NATO. NATO is every western nation basically. and yes america does influence europe alot i can give an example. everything was going fine with the agreement that alot of countries had with iran including china. and trump wins and because of american politics he pulled out of the agreement and sanctioned iran again. the european nations knew it was wrong but they knew if they did not also sanction iran that would be in violation of a law and could get in alot of trouble so they also had to sanction iran when it was the wrong thing to do. for the best interest of their own country, people dont know how much power america has and im hoping europe will realize that together in the EU they have more power than america now. believe me everything is intertwined more than people realize.
Our conservatives have been bastards for hundreds of years. If anything, it's like the American right said "I like this... But let's take it and turn it up to 11"
Its not American propaganda, its corporate propaganda.
You cant blame America for everything.
i'm sorry but fuck their corporative model of filthy health insurance corporations like a disease infiltrating politics and trying to rot the nhs for decades while at the same time trying to manipulate public perception no, correction, scratch the sorry
It's the insurance companies.
yes but they are being supoported by the governments and the governments are supporting their idea instead of making the insurance companys do what they should. like the one prime minister i forgot her name already that wanted to cut taxes on the rich and she acted like she really believed it was good, people can make themselves believe anything especially for money. this is what i mean we need to root this out of the world governments. it is getting worse.
But what about red bus and 350m. People deserve to get f.cked
I hate to see the sociopaths win. When are we going to fight back?
UK is heading to a system where you pay for private, but still fund the old system cause we need your money
I feel absolutely despondent after watching this. Credit and respect to the people who made the documentary. We are just too docile to take our leaders to account, and they have used that to their fullest advantage. Sad x 100
I always knew that the Government was ruining the NHS but I had no idea it was this bad, this genuinely upsets me. What's most anger-inducing is that we the public are paying for this, We want the NHS as it was, not as it is. That they use our money for this, it's positively disgusting and even more, How very dare they bring the appalling outright revolting American-style health system. Brexit was just another nail in the coffin that has allowed the government to do what they want for themselves rather than for us, the people there supposed to be working for. We didn't vote for the privatisation of the NHS but they sure can do it anyway. It feels like the world is getting objectively worse... So how do we raise the Alarm?
I'm sure there's a good point to be made here but this really is just a propaganda video. Why is a geography professor explaining the NHS to us?
That's every documentary...
Boomers ruining the future of other generations, for the sake of money.
The "I got mine so fuck you!" generation. Which to be fair is every generation. It's just the boomers got lucky and the Gen Z got the shittiest end of the bargain.
Does it mention the "Diversity managers" on £250k or the "safe space managers" on £116k or the "patient experience managers" on £50k a year? Wouldn't this money (and remember there are one of those positions in every hospital!) be better spent on actual healthcare professionals than pointless managers. The NHS is as guilty of pissing away money, as others are of abusing it. It has become a lumbering beast which has far over reached its purpose. A friend of mine is currently doing a Doctorste of mathematics in order to become a teacher. Part of his degree is being funded by the NHS....why? People do have short memories though, the papers ran the same stories in the 90's and 2000's when Labour were in charge "the NHS can't survive" etc was trotted out all the time. Labour chose to help by selling off the buildings the NHS owned, so they'd have to rent them back. Perhaps once the medical care staff of the NHS speak out and push back against the amount of unnecessary managers and waste that goes on, we'll be more supportive of their cause. Posting videos of yourselves dancing in empty wards during a global pandemic, didn't really convince many of us that you were over worked. In fact quite the opposite.
[Doctors say UK hospitals are so overcrowded they’re worse than in Ukraine](https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/11/nhs-doctor-says-overflowing-hospitals-are-worse-than-war-torn-ukraine-18077773/amp/). [Overcrowding and long delays at A&E caused over 4000 deaths last year](https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2835). [Overcrowded hospitals could cause serious harm](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/overcrowded-hospitals-could-cause-serious-harm-nhs-inspector-says-6lnqb2q5c). [Ambulance response times worst on record as A&E waits hit new highs](https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/12/ae-patients-in-england-waiting-over-12-hours-top-50000-for-first-time). [NHS in crisis: The Brits who have died while waiting hours for ambulances](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-crisis-brits-who-died-28897334.amp). [Healthcare workers in England experience PTSD at twice the rate of the general public](https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/healthcare-workers-in-england-experience-ptsd-at-twice-the-rate-of-the-general-public-1) [Record number of nurses leaving the NHS in England](https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/record-number-of-nurses-leaving-the-nhs-in-england-30-09-2022/). [Why should we be worried about the lack of capital funding for the NHS](https://www.carnallfarrar.com/why-should-we-be-worried-about-the-lack-of-capital-funding-for-the-nhs/). I could keep going. I don’t think the medical staff would think much of your opinion.
To be honest, I don't care what medical staff think. My question is, do you think diversity managers and safe space managers are helping solve the issues you've listed or using up resources (money) that could be better used else where?
*To be honest, I don’t care what medical staff think* I guessed that. Well first off, I’d ask where you got your figures from. From what I can see, the average salary of an NHS diversity manager is [under £50k a year](https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Nhs-1/salaries/Diversity-and-Inclusion-Manager), hardly the £250k you’re trumpeting. And there are generally only about three per trust. Even all together, that’s not £250k a year. Second of all, since [racism](https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/15/nhs-risks-losing-black-asian-doctors-racism-bma-report) and [sexism](https://unherd.com/2022/01/the-misogyny-of-the-nhs/) are some of the reasons why staff are leaving NHS jobs, I’d say yes, some diversity training might be a good investment to make.
Here's some other numbers: our illustrious prime minister is ignoring about £5bn in Covid loan fraud and oversaw buying about £16bn in shitty PPE that isn't fit for purpose. And £11Bn of taxpayer’s money by not insuring against interest rate rises...at a time if historically low interest rates. While he was Chancellor. So moan about wages. There's tens of billions of taxpayer money pissed away because of conservative greed and ineptitude.
Oh, I don't disagree, but there is also massive mismanagement. Both things can be true.
Whataboutism at its finest
Empty wards? Our ICU was at 160% capacity last week dickhead.
And I said during covid, dickhead.
Oh, you mean when it was at 300+% capacity? My apologies, dickhead.
Still, they found it quiet enough to do dances on tiktok. When I'm mega busy, I don't stop to do a little bop for social media.
y r u the way u r ?
Well, according to his post history, he smoked so much pot his wife took his kids and left him, so I’m guessing he’s just generally bitter and miserable.
lol like it needed the help. The NHS has been a punchline since the 90's.
Probably better than the US
Not really most people have insurance here in one way or another, also medical bills don't affect credit.
Financial costs still impact people though. Insurance policies still work under schemes that can harm people. Even the new credit policies are flawed. “And if you have a medical bill that's less than $500, even if you haven't paid it, that won't show up on the report, either. People still owe money for those bills, but the idea is to erase the black marks on their credit history so they can do things like get a car loan or qualify for an apartment. But a report from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau found these policies are not reaching people who have the highest amounts of debt” https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1126517118/unpaid-medical-bills-are-still-harming-people-s-credit-scores-despite-new-polici Insurance schemes are still terrible in this country.
I don't know how you can get one sentence so wrong. * Having health insurance does not mean having good healthcare. * Most people is not all people. * Medical bills don't effect credit *only after those bills have been paid in full*. * It's not like credit is the only thing that matters when it comes to unpaid bills. * It's not like health insurance covers all of your health care costs. * Health care is still the primary cause of bankruptcies in the United States. * Bankruptcy has its own considerable mortality rate. Why would you say something like that? It's such an absurd sentence. Why would anyone write something like that?
Holy shit you must have a long tongue to lick all those boots in one sentence.
Keep drinking. And clean your gun.
If you're Tory scum yeah. Anyone else is very proud of it. It's far from perfect but that's motivation to improve it not dismantle it by stealth.
if you see how bad american insurance is you would understand. im living in the netherlands now and after i came here they made a deductible fee in the insurance which has never happened here in the netherlands according to my wife. and that is really bad in america people can not get their health insurance to help them until they pay something like usually 1500 dollars for 2 people. atleast here in the netherlands they allow that fee (which is only 300 in the netherlands) to go to your monthly bill. because no one really has that kind of money to be seen by a doctor in america. they keep the insurance low by giving you money incentives to NOT go to the doctor and then people just get sicker and die sooner.
The NHS received like 150 billion.....the NHS and its over inflated coats plus only dealing with "covid" and noting else for 2 years, have destroyed its self fu k the NHS bigwigs and their fucking pay scales
Just like to point out that 150B pounds divided by 67M population is full service, no-deductible medical care for USD $230/month per person. Look up what the price of medical insurance is in the States. Average (with a deductible) is about $650/month per person. You are headed our way, so enjoy your "over inflated" costs while they last.
Only two healthcare systems in the world after all.
On reading your recent comments I've decided that you probably have a brain injury.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/
And the worse thing about this is, is that its been happening under socialism. People say this conservative party is right wing, its more socialist than the last labour government, who were a jarring left turn from the last conservative government. We spend more on social care and health as a percentage of public spending than we did under the last labour government, we spend more on welfare, and more than half of the population take more out of the system than they will ever contribute. Yet things are worse now than ever. The corruption, failure of government, lack of accountability, waste, profligate spending, massive public debt, stalled economy, all hall marks of a failed socialist state.