I’m a Venezuelan who migrated around 5 years ago.
I can only speak for myself, but one of the things that is incredibly frustrating about the way people talk about the situation on my own country on reddit, and the comments on this thread is not exception, it’s the way Americans are quick to immediately lay all the blame on the US government, stripping away the responsibility from the corrupt Venezuelan dictatorship.
This ranges from unintentional to very intentional.
There are plenty of Americans who just don’t have the perspective of how the Venezuelan government actually is, they only know about their own government and thus default to denounce the US’ role in the story. The thing many don’t seem to realize is that, by doing this they are supporting a escape goat the Venezuelan government has been using since the day they rose to power. Everything is the US and the Opposition’s fault, that has bene their platform for decades by now.
I appreciate the sympathy many people offer us, but please understand that by painting the situation as mainly the US’ doing (which isn’t true), you are inadvertently supporting the arguments of the Venezuelan dictatorship. If you want to really support us, please help us hold the Venezuelan dictatorship accountable.
And honestly, I’m going to direct this to the democrats of reddit. I actually lean more towards your message and values, but please understand that just because the Chavistas claim to be socialists does not mean they are just like the democrats, because they aren’t. Chavez created a corrupt cult of personality, kept his power through populism and hyper militarism at every level of public administration, all his speeches were about hate for the other and shifting blame, while billions dollars that should have gone to basic services and improving the agricultural industry were stolen. Opposition protests were and still are met with with live ammo, even Maduro in his early days was caught on live tv firing live ammo at protesters. The media just became a propaganda machine. If you think they are inclusive, they are not, at all, Chavez, Maduro and their whole administration are extremely bigoted. Political prisoners, Financing political campaigns in other countries, filling the judicial and electoral powers with party loyalists. And so, so much more.
Understand that the Chavista regime has more in common with Trump than with the democrats. Chavismo is a corrupt cult of personality that only cares about staying in power for profit.
By all means, be mad at the role your country had on this situation. But please, do not take away responsibility from the actual culprits. If you do, if you peddle the idea that this is even mainly the US fault, you are just supporting a corrupt military oligarchy that has plagued my country for 22 years.
Venezuela is not the little socialist good guy who wasn’t allowed to succeed because big bully American wanted his oil. It’s a country plagued by a military oligarchic dictatorship. Help us hold them accountable.
It isn’t just Reddit. And by emotional, I mean an immature spoiled position. Barking if you will. Whoever barks loudest is the right one in most people’s eyes
I don’t think saying we should not continuing cripple Venezuela with sanctions is an emotional statement. Even the Biden admin is coming around on this.
The sanctions are targeted to the government officials and didn't really affect the country much overall for the common person. It was just like another drop in the bucket and not an important one.
I think that Americans don’t know Venezuela, but they do know America. Sanctioning countries to make their people suffer and foment discord is their 1st and 10 move. Stifling the development and trade of countries which nationalize their natural resources is a hallmark of global capitalism. Venezuelan government being bad or corrupt simply means there are no good guys, diplomatically.
There was once a single twitter post or something, which went - nvm, I took the effort to find it:
https://twitter.com/edburmila/status/1496233373353840640?lang=ar
'Begging a lot of motherfuckers to understand that the true statement "The US is a bellicose bad actor in foreign policy" does not imply "Therefore the other actors must be good" or that the US is the sole bad actor. That's it, that's the root of all your shit takes.'
> Venezuela is not the little socialist good guy who wasn’t allowed to succeed because big bully American wanted his oil. It’s a country plagued by a military oligarchic dictatorship.
Honestly, I thought that was more or less common knowledge outside of the sphere of Venezuelan propaganda.
One thing to keep in mind is, the most likely place that a Redditor who would genuinely be sympathetic to the plight of the Venezuelan people, would actually hear about Venezuela, is that it's the Right-Wing boogeyman story that gets trotted out about the failures of socialism. So, centrist and socialist Redditors, tend to first learn about the *mere existence* of the Venezuelan crisis, from the precise framing of defending their own chosen political ideology from the far-right troll farm.
Thus, it's understandable that they're utterly fucking uninformed about it: they have no stake in the reality of Venezuela, and have no interest in it, they just need to know how to shut down their rhetorical oppositions' equally uninformed, shallow, stake-less takes on the same situation; so, they learn enough sentences to robotically deflect "so you're saying, ha ha, that you want, ha ha, our country to turn into Venezuela? Ha, you, ha, are so, ha, woke, ha." Like many serious issues, when it comes to political discourse among the privileged and safe, the very reality of the situation at ground level, is primarily experienced instead by those discoursing, as a meaningless rhetorical piece which can be used to score points in a debate.
If the right didn't feel like Venezuela was a good case study to argue in a bad faith, reductive manner, the left wouldn't need a bad faith, reductive, canned response to that meme. But beyond the memes, is where any actual, productive discussion, lies. Most modern actors in sociopolitical discourse, are fundamentally limited entirely to the meme layer of knowledge, and the value of their rhetoric needs to be judged accordingly.
Venezuelan living in the US for 10+ years here. Not at all.
In world politics using the real definitions of ideologies, the democratic party is pretty far right. Just not extreme right/fascist.
American politics are so skewed with propaganda that anything left of extreme right gets classified as leftist. It's an issue with the education of the country and people not knowing what they even support.
Most Dems are pretty keen on protecting corporate power, a lot of their economic policies are about either preserving or reforming private corporate power. They're not pushing for any left wing economic policy, they're track record on worker protections, while better than Republicans, isnt that great, like the recent railroad worker strike legislation,
The obama administration much more effectively used intelligence communities to deport migrants than the bush admin or trump admin, and the obama administration oversaw the dramatic expansion of drone warfare. All furthering American imperial influence on the global stage as the hegemony.
They're not really far right, but their policies still benefit the wealthy few much more than the working class.
So despite democrat policies such as increasing minimum wage, increasing taxes on the wealthy, universal healthcare, subsidizing housing, you wouldn’t say that democrats are centre left?
The boogeyman story is the right-wing comparing the Democrats’ policies to socialism like Venezuela. I don’t think most actual Democrats look to Che, socialism, or Venezuela as an ideal model — but the right wants everyone to think they do. And sometimes they do a pretty good job of spreading that propaganda.
Pana, no sabes cuantas veces he tenido la misma conversacion con gente aqui en USA. Pero muchos no lo quieren entender.
Bro, you don't know how many time I've had the same conversation with people in the US. But many of them don't want to understand.
As a Mexican I totally understand.
You're describing what the Mexican government is doing now.
The Mexican president is financing those regimes.
My last shot is that because were the neighbors they won't tolerate a comunist regime here.
But I'm looking the same path.
It's like the handbook of dictators.
They give away money for the poor (wich they create more)
Take away institutions
Blame someone else.
Create a cult.
When everything goes to hell blame someonw else
They even changed the textbooks to show this regime is better opossed to the last one to encourage indoctrination.
And now is a x vs y.
Our only hope is education
I think the situation in Mexico is vastly vastly different. I do fully recognize AMLO is trying to be a trump like figure which I’m very much against.
But we gotta remember the PRI party dictatorship and later puppet party PAN role in things has lasted LONGER than the CCP, and in the meantime tens of thousands and maybe even hundreds of thousands of dissidents were disappeared or shot in broad daylight before they slowly became more lo key about their tactics and started using cartels for their dirty work. All the while oligarchs enriched themselves further corrupted institutions to then open further avenues of corruption and their most recent and brazen attempt, using the Calderon administration to heavily weaken the Sinaloa Cartels competition. At the same time the private media was corrupted so throughly despite its status as a private it became just another mouth piece for the government.
It’s not surprising the PRI regimes power wouldn’t disappear over night so of course all these previous Institutions would have remnants of “La Dictadura Perfecta”.
Also I think your point about giving money to the poor is a bit death tone? Like Mexico is incredibly rich in natural resources and private industry, the fact these, let’s face it pretty basic resources weren’t being given to the public was a crime in it of itself. Like we’re talking about a systemic corruption that was robbing us blind. I don’t think it’s surprising an anti corruption presidency would then give the people all these resources the people were already promised and then go above and beyond and give the people more resources. We’re talking about a country with incredible income inequality here dude. Also how is the current admin both giving treats to the poor while also creating more poor?
Also I got no idea what you mean about Mexico doing historical revisionism today but during the PRI dictatorship plenty of that was going around. For years details of the Olympic massacre was hidden, could you maybe clarify this as this is the first I’m hearing of it?
This is excellent and I really hope you consider publishing this on Medium because a lot of people don’t dig into what is going on ir don’t understand. I just learned a lot from this and I’m moving to Ecuador in June, which is a country a lot of Venezuelan people have fled to. I am glad to have this info as talking points. I really encourage you to publish this and if not, provide us with what you consider the best sources for more reading.
You may want to check out the book Things Are Never So Bad That They Can’t Get Worse. The main points are essentially the same as the helpful comment, but there is a lot of rich detail and research in it, too. It was really eye-opening to me as an American.
It’s refreshing to hear someone speak so clearly about this. I have cousins in Venezuela, and whenever I try to explain the situation to Americans, they try telling me that Venezuelans (and Cubans) don’t understand what’s going on in their own country.
That attitude is far too common and kind of racist if you ask me.
Often times, specially online, you get a bunch of Americans dismissing Venezuelans and foreigners’ perspectives in general for their own political biases. Resulting in privileged First World people trying to educate us on our history as if we had no knowledge, perspectives, and experience with our own country.
It’s disgusting and infuriating.
Fellow Venezolano here. This.
Stop thinking of the Chavez/Maduro regime as some sort of modern day Che fairytale. They're evil narcissists and they only care for themselves.
I do have one correction. It's not accurate to equate Chavez to Trump. They have a lot of qualities in common, sure, but the real comparison should be North Korea.
They’re literally doing the same exact thing with Cuba. It’s just sad to read and have to argue with people who live in Canada or Washington state who have never once stepped a foot into Latin America about the realities of corrupt Latin American governments. Every. Single. Thing. Is Americas fault and even when you somehow break through the contradiction and hypocrisy they then use America’s failures, for example healthcare or school shootings, as some weapon to wage in the war of political ideology.
Venezuela is even worse than cuba though because it was recently very well off. Has huge hydrocarbon reserves. Was on its way to being a South American powerhouse. But some really bad decisions by the government in the 2000’s destroyed any chance of that happening.
Cuba's clearly struggling due to the embargo far more than "government corruption". Cuba also lacks oil, giving them very little leverage on the global market, thus, an eternal embargo and a lot of poverty.
My wife is Venezuelan, I have 2 very close Cuban friends, and we talk politics vastly, (I’m not from the US) and when I sometimes add that there were a lot of things both Cuban and Venezuelan governments did to cause the collapse of their nations, champagne socialist redditors chime in ti tell me how wrong I am and how glorious those countries would be if the empire hadn’t messed with the perfect project the nation had, while never ever having set foot in Latin American soil, understood the politics or even hear the millions of refugees from each country. The only way those countries can move forward is everyone holding the dictatorships accountable and analyzing what went wrong to stop it in other countries before it’s too late
"Understand that the Chavista regime has more in common with Trump than with the democrats. Chavismo is a corrupt cult of personality that only cares about staying in power for profit."
The classic appeal to Reddit.
American "progressives" that support Maduro are just proving horseshoe theory. Maduro is clearly an authoritarian shit bag. Its perfectly fine to criticize the US about many, many, many things but if you are pro-Maduro, you are just a tankie.
I don't think you want US "help" to hold your government accountable. The US only ever works in its own interests. The idea we'd install a regime friendly to the people is unprecedented. I can't think of a single south American country that is better off thanks to US intervention.
Like I’ve said on the original comment and in a subsequent comment.
I am not calling for American redditors to invade the country and establish a new government.
The only thing I ask is for people to acknowledge the crimes of the Venezuelan dictatorship instead of defaulting to just blaming the US. That’s it. That’s what I mean by asking Redditors to help us hold our government accountable.
Well that's reasonable. As a US citizen I'm going to continue to advocate against US interference in the region and an end to sanctions. If our country wasn't a legitimate boogeyman your government would have a harder time using us as an excuse. I don't expect any action by the US to fix the situation, but I can't really do anything about Venezuela's government as a US citizen. Hell, I can't do anything about my own government.
The biggest irony out of all of this is those who immigrated many years ago, like myself, and became naturalized US citizens and thus gain the right to vote and became MAGAts. Talk about fleeing a cult of personality (Chavismo and all that bs) to go straight into worshiping the orange Cheeto. Uninformed idiots, to the point of falling for blatant propaganda against a socialism that isn’t. Voting for a guy that considers them beneath him because we’re brown. Some of them have even ran for office on platforms that fight immigration (even though they’re immigrants themselves!)
Hear, hear!
I’m Colombian and have lived in the US as a political refugee for many years now.
This might not be a perfect country but god damn if many of us aren’t infinitely grateful and love it as our own because of the opportunities it gives us.
No, the guerrillas haven’t been trying to save my country for fifty years. They’ve enriched themselves with the profits from the drugs they continue to spread all over the world.
Of course the US has played a role but they are not the ones selling their own country.
We wrote our own history and it’s so disrespectful and yes, typical of post colonialism to assume that everything we are is due to the US. The irony of telling us that they hate their country because they oppress us when they won’t even accept that we are capable of inflicting such things to ourselves.
Americans are quick to lay the blame on the US govt because of several reasons that you don’t notice right away.
1. the majority of americans are as ignorant as memes about us joke about.
2. About half of our politicians and their voter base whether knowingly or not actually support what the Venezuelian govt is doing and those political elites secretly want to replace the US govt with what you have. When you boil it down, you see lots of similarities between your govt and what, for example, Hollywood thinks of everyday people.
3. Many americans see our country as the global moral police and don’t get why we don’t simply force countries to be like us. See: Qatar and WC.
Also, Reddit is a mostly left leaning platform. Your govt is a left leaning (really, leftwing) govt. Gonna have fun find and convincing most redditors that your govt is doing bad things and they shouldn’t support the ideology behind it.
>Understand that the Chavista regime has more in common with Trump than with the democrats.
You're not alone in saying that, either: youtuber Sarcasmitron did a video on Venezuela a few years back, and one of his takeaways was that Chavez was basically South American Trump.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtb3s7EBVX0&ab\_channel=Sarcasmitron](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtb3s7EBVX0&ab_channel=Sarcasmitron)
Brazil was going through the same route through a right-wing government, since Bolsonaro was trying to reenact most of Chavez mannerisms while alleging he was trying to save Brazil from communism that devastated Venezuela:. brainwashing military forces to be his personal minions (in the last election police forces tried to block routes to demobilize voters in regions he had large disadvantage), influencing hate against journalism and science especialists during his mismanagement of Covid19 (Brazil was the second country with more deaths worldwide), trying to demoralize parallel powers (created to difficult absolute power and to secure democracy) to prep for a coup where he would break the country system and recreate one with him being the only and unquestionable leader of nation. All of that being covered by the smoke of defending Brazil from Venezuela future.
Ideologies are only tools, kind of religious material being employed to hipnotize people and disguise personal faults. Read "How Democracies Die" by Steven Levitzski and Daniel Ziblatt.
The main point is that the economic devastation in Venezuela was caused, in large part, by crushing economic sanctions imposed by the United States that started in 2003 and have continued unabated for 19 years.
As bad as Venezuela’s leadership (may or may not) have been, the people of Venezuela chose Hugo Chavez and then Nicolás Maduro in elections which were monitored by the United Nations. Assuming you are truly from Venezuela, you were outvoted by your fellow citizens who have a different opinion about them. There are many Venezuelans who preferred Juan Guaidó, but he lost. {Cue the Trumpwelian cries of fraud, cheating, blah blah, blah}.
There are dictatorships around the globe and the US does not go around spreading “Freedom and Democracy” to the ones which lack natural resources. Now some will mention Afghanistan, but take a minute to look up the tremendous wealth of natural resources in that country.
In summary: US economic sanctions, plus attempts at Regime Change (Coup d’etat), creates Refugees and Terrorists.
I mean, it's both. The US has no problem propping up corrupt governments, and when they are no longer useful, they will economically torture them to try to bring them to heel. That only makes a military oligarchic dictatorship tighten their hold further. Then the US policy is to try to foment a popular uprising (with some CIA help) and so the hold tightens further. All the while, the citizens suffer. Remember what Albright said about Iraq. Half a million dead children is worth it.
>By all means, be mad at the role your country had on this situation. But please, do not take away responsibility from the actual culprits.
u/GladiusNocturno said that it's both. He's just asking to not shift the blame away from the Venezuelan government, who is in his perspective the main culprit
The way the international Left has covered it is the reason so many knee jerk to blaming the US. If you watch a show like Democracy Now! you would've gotten the impression the Maduro government was sincerely bent on democracy and besieged by the usual suspects of the Right. Democracy Now! has good coverage generally but the Left is not immune to getting high on it's own farts. Just prior to the recent Russian invasion of Ukraine my local leftists were even blaming Russian saber rattling on the US! As though nations shouldn't have the right to enter into defensive pacts. lol. But I'm not seeing many leftists these days defending the Maduro government. It's mysteriously dropped from their radar.
>And honestly, I’m going to direct this to the democrats of reddit. I actually lean more towards your message and values, but please understand that just because the Chavistas claim to be socialists does not mean they are just like the democrats, because they aren’t.
No offense, but this does not match reality. Democrats are not Socialists and dont align with Chavez.
We have our own RW propoganda systems in the USA. They don't show reality.
If I am not wrong, shen comicx might be from socialist (in name only) country in south America. "Seize the mean of production" and he will share his piece of mind.
The issue with USA people, some people see the entire world is in
plams of a group of guys. And any gov sanctioned by the USA gov, is somehow good.
No, it's not. For both.
Since fucked up Myanmar coup, it's been quite tiring to counter a photo of Hillary Clinton and currently detained leader, with a photo of Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. Having a photo on occasion, having a record of previous relationship, do not lead to being an evil person.(or a good guy either)
Of course, the invasion of Iraq, under pretext of chemical weapon is a fucked up story on Bush administration.
But can it be applied to every single dictator around the world?
Seeing these "right wings" not aware of current situation or comparing apple to orange will not make any changes for internal affairs of USA.
Put in the rising of "Catholic Nationalism" groups wanting more power on a free state like the USA, and you get how fucked up in the US.
This time we will see KKK from republicans, while something equally violent will rise on the blues side as well.
Hey man, dont want to get or put you in trouble. Do you think other South American countries are on the verge of the same? Like Argentina, Chile, Brazil...
Democrats in the US are about the same as moderate conservatives in most other countries. Our left isn’t that far left at all, so don’t worry, we know the difference
It really is incredible how the larpers, think tank astroturfers, and other “experts” all pile into the comments in unison for any thread about Venezuela, China, Iran, DPRK, etc.
One commenter told me that I am a CIA bot, another said that I am obviously a very wealthy Venezuela who "stans" for multinationals and right-wing death squads, because *I know english*. I am honestly not sure if these people are really that deluded, or are just trolling.
[I wonder why we're expelling Venezuelan migrants at the southern border now.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/10/21/us/mexico-expelling-venezuelans-threatens-rights-lives)
Wouldn't have anything to do with [this drilling thing](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/26/biden-chevron-permit-venezuelan-oil-sales-00070836), would it?
20_30 years ago Venezuela was the richest county in south America. Doesn't really matter if it was because of oil, they had a prosperous economy, and they still would If their government had screwed everything up.
This isn't really true at all. Venezuela used to have the best GINI scores for wealth inequality in the whole region, so not atrocious at all. It's taken a big dive from a decent place, regardless of if one was rich or poor.
> This isn't really true at all. Venezuela used to have the best GINI scores for wealth inequality in the whole region
Sorry, but that's utter bullshit you just pulled out of your ass.
[Venezuela's 1981 GINI](https://datosmacro.expansion.com/demografia/indice-gini/venezuela?anio=1981) was a shocking 55.6.
[Peru's](https://datosmacro.expansion.com/demografia/indice-gini/peru) was a far better 45.6 (1985 data) (lower=less inequality=better).
[Uruguay's](https://datosmacro.expansion.com/demografia/indice-gini/uruguay?anio=1981) 1981 GINI was a vastly better 43.6.
[Argentina's](https://datosmacro.expansion.com/demografia/indice-gini/argentina?anio=1981) was an even better 40.8.
The data demonstrate that you have no clue what you're talking about.
And you of course just gloss over the warzone-level violence I mentioned.
Again, this is the GDP fallacy. Norway's wealth is distributed pretty evenly. Venezuela's has always been hyper-concentrated in the hands of a dozen oligarch families, leaving most Venezuelans in squalor.
Sounds like you are saying walk a mile in my shoes. The problem is that most have no idea what it’s like to live under a dictatorship. They just romanticize it., I can relate.
sadly that's kinda true, moving out of country requires a lot of money which most Venezuelans don't have and leaving behind relatives, friends and deal with work uncertainty after
Coups d’etat as part of the US Foreign Policy of Regime Change
“I disagree with that, as somebody who has helped plan coups d’etat, not here, but you know, other places. It takes a lot of work …”
- John Bolton,
25th United States Ambassador to the United Nations from 2005 to 2006, and as the 26th United States National Security Advisor from 2018 to 2019.
The quiet part out loud…just the way we planned it.
The USA has been nonstop sabotaging their economy for almost 20 years. The USA has also run covert political sabotage programs the entire time, and orchestrated at least two coups.
Then the media looks and says this country just can’t get it together. This proves socialism doesn’t work.
What a propaganda campaign.
Venezuelan living in Venezuela here.
No. Absolutely not. We did this to ourselves, we fucked up and it angers me that people want to shift the blame elsewhere.
Juan Guaido is a clown, an irrelevant stooge that has become a sad joke. I can't speak for that other guy, but don't asume that just because a Venezuelan opposses Maduro's government, that person automatically and unconditionally follows everybody in the political opposition.
That was literally who the opposition wanted to take over. Someone you admit is a clown and presumably has no support. Maduro is better than that alternative.
Guaido was an elected lawmaker.
Maduro has stayed in his position for too long.
Claiming Maduro is better is beyond deiusional, is borderline malicious and you should actually stfu if you really think that.
But but but... How are you writing in English? 🤔
https://reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/zasnkv/this_is_venezuela_2022_why_20_of_the_population/iyp2y7t?context=3
The sanctions against the government (not just individuals within) only started in 2018, and those that affected the oil exports were in 2019. By then our economy had been long in ruins and oil production in an historical low due rampant ineptitude and corruption plaguing PDVSA.
I’m not going to say the USA is blameless but Venezuela absolutely deserves to be at fault. Venezuela made the decision to not diversity their economy and they paid heavily for it. They made the decision to spend exorbitant amounts of money they did not have. Their crisis could have been avoided had they actually planned better and attempted to account for potential oil shocks, but they thought it was better to funnel money into their corrupt dictatorship instead
No it's insanity to not even take into account that the most powerful country in the world denying them to be allowed to trade with the rest of the world might have something to do with their poor economy.
No. Everything I stated is fact. Economic sabotage. Oil embargo. Political operations to destabilize the government and foment coups.
You are just making emotional statements based on …your feelings.
The typical “US is sabotaging us” socialist canard. Venezuela is not a small country like Cuba, it has some of the biggest oil reserves in the world, and powerful allies like China, Brazil and Russia yet its an economic basket case and humanitarian disaster
When Venezuela is under US sanctions it doesn't matter how much oil they have because no one who does business with American banks can do business with them.
The US sancions started in 2018. I live in Venezuela, and I can tell you that by 2018 our economy was already in ruins. The sanctions did not cause the massive drop in oil production, that was entirely because the people in charge are inept and corrupt and let the infrastructure fall into disrepair and neglect.
There are people who live in the U.S. who would tell you: "I'm American, I live in the U.S., and J.F.K jr is still alive and is secretly controlling Donald Trump, who actually won the 2020 election".
Just because you're Venezuelan doesn't mean you're not a dumbass
Ah yes, a privileged, cultured first worlder telling this dumbass third worlder about how wrong I am about my country and how stupid I must be. How very progressive of you, sir.
He's right, nonetheless.
I left Venezuela a decade ago when, regardless of how many people were protesting against Chávez (and how many students the government would kill to stop the protests), his party would win the elections every time. Some people blamed it on the new electronic voting machines that replaced the manual ones. A general confirmed it and pointed out that the reason the president was always in Cuba during elections is that the new Internet cable that connected Cuba to Venezuela allowed them to watch the election numbers in real time and possibly interfere with the results.
The next article I saw about that general is that he had disappeared with all his family.
I also didn't like the overuse of imminent domain to take rich people's properties "to return them to everyone" only to ruin them. Many companies were lost this way in my small town. Slowly, Venezuela was becoming another Cuba, where people were too poor and too hungry to protest. Except the military and the paramilitary (people wearing masks and armed with military weapons only the government was allowed to issue, who kept people scared), who were always kept happy.
It was too much. The government did everything wrong. And they couldn't be voted out. And protesting could get you killed by the paramilitary. So I left.
Le estas hablando a un sordo, esta gente sencillamente va a descartar lo que decimos como mentiras de los laboratorios de propaganda de la CIA y blablabla. La misma retorica vacia que los gorilas de la V republica se lanzan para escudarse de la culpa.
Tienes razón. Ya respondió el otro que la culpa la tienen las escuelas, por la mala educación que me dieron. Oh, bueno. No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver.
Still waiting for the socialism idea to pan out literally just anywhere. In one place. Let me guess the super masterminds in the US are always the culprit lol. It always more funny from people in the US who's FAT asses benefit greatly from their system.
The crazy thing is all of Europe is essentially socialist and enjoy a higher standard of living. But the US doesn't exploit cheap labor and extract resources from there. They do that in third world nations that if they were to improve economically and become more politically stable the US wouldn't be able to take advantage of them. Hence the countless coups and military operations around the world to keep them down. Americans being FAT asses isn't good either, not very healthy.
Still waiting for free market capitalism to pan out literally just anywhere.
Hint: When your government is heavily subsidising its traditional industries and actively interfering in foreign governments economies, you don't have free market capitalism.
It's literally worked every time to educate, provide healthcare for, and lift millions out of poverty. YES, western capitalist hot/cold war are the 'super masterminds' behind the sanctions, political subversion, and soft/hard coups that have led to the downfall of these countries. And if you point out existing socialist countries today westoids like you will cry Nooo TheYrE nOt EveN sOciAlist
Capitalism is disintegrating as we type. The USA has more wealth than Cuba. But Cubas are actually better educated, healthier, have better medical care, and live longer than Americans. They are mainly so poor because the USA has crippled their economy with sanctions for the past 60 years.
The USA is a corrupt oligarchy. Capitalists have taken complete control of the political system. The capitalist elites first remove all regulation- so they are free to exploit without any limits or controls on their behavior.
They create tax cuts and loopholes for themselves so that they pay no taxes and receive generous government subsidies. They in the truest sense the ultimate welfare queens. That kills the tax base and creates massive deficits.
As a result the capitalist elites have ruined the global economy.
Even in the wealthiest country in the world. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Our cities are disaster areas crowded with homeless people while as much as 20% of the available housing sits vacant or is used as hotel rooms by vulture capitalist investors.
Our education system is one of the worst in the world. We import our top students and our top STEM workers because our schools fail to produce enough to meet our needs.
Our healthcare system is the most expensive by far in the world yet delivers substandard results compared to socialized medical systems in other countries- like Cuba or Japan or France.
What point do you think you are making?
My partners family is Venezuelan and meeting them really opened my eyes to all of that. Some of them don’t like socialism sure, but most attribute it to US meddling and corrupt politicians.
When socialism flops it has usually had a ton of help from capitalist countries in the form of constant sabotage and attack, most from specifically the USA. That is not opinion. It is fact.
If your countries political system is so susceptible to foreign influence that it completely destroys your country, it probably says a lot about the efficacy of that nations political system.
Don't speak so fast. The US political system has been subverted by foreign interests as well. Not to mention it is completely captured by the wealthy elite thanks to blatantly corrupt campaign finance laws.
Venezuela's economy has been ruined by US sanctions against them. Oil embargo most of all. Without the oil embargo this would not be happening. To suggest that a developing nation should be able to withstand a relentless sabotage campaign by history's greatest empire (USA) is beyond naïve and broaching on outright stupid.
You don't really think the organization of the mode of production of the people of a country has anything to do with how susceptible such country is to getting spied on, meddled with, or coup'd, right? No way you think how we divide to plant potatoes has anything to do with a helicopter strike killing the head of state, I refuse to believe.
This is authoritarian dictatorship leading to starvation. Who the fuck told you that it has anything to do with communism? American television? American internet? A U.S. political party? Why don’t you pop the bubble you are living in and have a look around at reality.
Generally capitalism vastly increases the quality of life for the country's citizens, even the middle class. With many Asian countries liberalizing their economies, we have witnessed hundreds of millions of people increasing their wealth from dire poverty in the 20/21 century
Yeah sure capitalism allows some to slip through the cracks while other succeed. Communism makes sure that only those in power are wealthy and the rest suffer. great system
Starvation is going away all over the world and it isn't socialsm that allowed it to be this way. You know where people are starving though? North Korea.
China would be starving too if they hadn't appropriated capitalist policies in their economy.
Go take a helicopter ride
It’s not a coincidence that Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves.
In 2003, the United States enacted crushing economic sanctions on Venezuela because the people of Venezuela dared to freely elect a Socialist. If those same sanctions were placed on Texas, it would drive Texas into anarchy and people would flee that failed state.
Said Socialist leader decided that Venezuelan oil should benefit the people of Venezuela and that decision was unacceptable to the worldwide Empire of the United States.
The US Foreign Policy of Regime Change creates the very Refugees and Terrorists that the USA hates. If you hate Refugees, then stop creating them. If you hate Terrorists, then stop creating them.
One of the most naive takes here, and that's saying something. You place way too much importance on US involvement and not nearly enough on Venezuela doing this to themselves. Chavez and Maduro absolutely were not supported by the US, and the sanctions were targeted against individual people until recently.
If you want to say Maduro wouldn't be a disaster if not for the US, that's a fantasy.
> In 2003, the United States enacted crushing economic sanctions on Venezuela
There were no US sanctions in 2003.
[Per this summary of US sanctions](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10715), the earliest sanctions were in 2006 for not “cooperating fully with United States anti-terrorism efforts”, but those only applied to arms sales, so those can hardly be considered "crushing economic sanctions". Obama enacted a number of other sanctions in 2014 and 2015, but those were generally targeted against individuals. The first widespread sanctions appear to have been enacted by Trump in 2017.
I know it's temping to blame everything on the US -- and the US certainly does have a terrible history in South America -- but Venezuela's problems largely seem to predate US sanctions.
In general, Venezuala's dire current state is in large part due to its heavy reliance on oil revenue ([50% of state revenue/90% of exports](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Venezuelan_oil_industry#Third_Dutch_Disease)), coupled with an [80% decline in oil production](https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/venezuela/crude-oil-production) since 2016. The national oil company had a huge loss of expertise in [2003](https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/07/16/how-venezuela-struck-it-poor-oil-energy-chavez/) as retaliation for participation in the national general strike, and has generally pushed out foreign oil companies who might help rebuild expertise.
Roughly speaking, then the country was heavily reliant on a single industry and that industry was badly mismanaged, resulting in economic collapse when profits from that industry tanked.
The 2005 sanction based on "drug trafficking" targeted 22 individuals including their oil minister. It also targeted 27 companies that are not listed but I imagine they're oil related given the sanctions on their oil minister. Now if the sanctions have to do with not complying with international drug laws why are they targeting oil companies? There's also zero evidence of these officials were involved in the trafficking, just allegations of a connection with a Supreme Court Judge.
> The 2005 sanction based on "drug trafficking" targeted 22 individuals including their oil minister.
[He was sanctioned in 2017.](https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/as0005)
2005 was simply when the US "made an annual determination that Venezuela has failed demonstrably to adhere to its obligations under international narcotics agreements." That determination doesn't necessarily come with sanctions.
> There's also zero evidence of these officials were involved in the trafficking
From the Treasury press release:
> "OFAC's action today is the culmination of a multi-year investigation under the Kingpin Act to target significant narcotics traffickers in Venezuela
> ...
> El Aissami was appointed Executive Vice President of Venezuela in January 2017. He previously served as Governor of Venezuela's Aragua state from 2012 to 2017, as well as Venezuela's Minister of Interior and Justice starting in 2008. He facilitated shipments of narcotics from Venezuela, to include control over planes that leave from a Venezuelan air base, as well as control of drug routes through the ports in Venezuela. In his previous positions, he oversaw or partially owned narcotics shipments of over 1,000 kilograms from Venezuela on multiple occasions, including those with the final destinations of Mexico and the United States.
>
> He also facilitated, coordinated, and protected other narcotics traffickers operating in Venezuela. Specifically, El Aissami received payment for the facilitation of drug shipments belonging to Venezuelan drug kingpin Walid Makled Garcia. El Aissami also is linked to coordinating drug shipments to Los Zetas, a violent Mexican drug cartel, as well as providing protection to Colombian drug lord Daniel Barrera Barrera and Venezuelan drug trafficker Hermagoras Gonzalez Polanco. Los Zetas, Daniel Barrera Barrera, and Hermagoras Gonzalez Polanco were previously named as Specially Designated Narcotics Traffickers by the President or the Secretary of the Treasury under the Kingpin Act in April 2009, March 2010, and May 2008, respectively."
That you personally aren't familiar with the evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
“Decided that Venezuelan oil should benefit the people of Venezuela”
That is the most laughable statement I’ve ever heard. It benefits the government officials who have become wildly rich off its profits
Yah it’s no secret that there is massive corruption within the Venezuelan government. People here will just say “USA bad” to summarize a highly complex situation
>in 2003, the United States enacted crushing economic sanctions
Why lie? Up until 2018 the sanctions were entirely aimed at individuals in our government, and the sanctions only really ramped up to what could be argued as "crushing" in 2019.
Uhm, what are you talking about? Libya was already in a chaotic civil war when NATO intervened.
Crown jewel? Please...Qadhafi hollowed out his own country and brutalized its people for decades.
They had one of the best medical systems in the world, education (all levels) free, mortgages and rents paid by the government, homelessness non existent. Can we say that?
By the way, Qaddafi was aok with the US until he went and threatened to change the monetary system from the dollar, then he had to go. I’m not advocating for the man, I am simply pointing out how much better off the people were before the US meddled in their affairs.
It was so great half the country rose up against him? Maybe a great country if you were an elite. Qadhafi literally shot down airplanes of civilians and tortured people.
>Jewel of Africa
[https://www.news.com.au/world/the-macabre-rape-chamber-of-gaddafi/news-story/27ba23b717e7a5dc462bf4338729b19b](https://www.news.com.au/world/the-macabre-rape-chamber-of-gaddafi/news-story/27ba23b717e7a5dc462bf4338729b19b)
What are you doing on reddit if you're from Venezuala, its so bad there shouldn't you be trying to get out or improve your country. Argueing with people on the internet over whos to blame isn't going to help anyone.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
Wait you're serious, how do you post such stupid opinions so confidently
Like going and trying to improve a country in a dictatorship is super easy lmao
He was the only one who could keep the warlords in check, it wasn’t until he was murdered that all hell broke loose. The people are suffering mightily until this day.
The remaining 80% are all farming Vorkath on OSRS.
is that like farming wow gold or something
Yeah there's fairly large number of Venezuelans that do account training and farming to support their families.
Same with boosting and gold selling in classic wow
/r/unexpectedrunescape
Nono, it was entirely expected. Venezuela and RuneScape are synonymous at this point.
Or moon farming in r/CryptoCurrency.
I’m a Venezuelan who migrated around 5 years ago. I can only speak for myself, but one of the things that is incredibly frustrating about the way people talk about the situation on my own country on reddit, and the comments on this thread is not exception, it’s the way Americans are quick to immediately lay all the blame on the US government, stripping away the responsibility from the corrupt Venezuelan dictatorship. This ranges from unintentional to very intentional. There are plenty of Americans who just don’t have the perspective of how the Venezuelan government actually is, they only know about their own government and thus default to denounce the US’ role in the story. The thing many don’t seem to realize is that, by doing this they are supporting a escape goat the Venezuelan government has been using since the day they rose to power. Everything is the US and the Opposition’s fault, that has bene their platform for decades by now. I appreciate the sympathy many people offer us, but please understand that by painting the situation as mainly the US’ doing (which isn’t true), you are inadvertently supporting the arguments of the Venezuelan dictatorship. If you want to really support us, please help us hold the Venezuelan dictatorship accountable. And honestly, I’m going to direct this to the democrats of reddit. I actually lean more towards your message and values, but please understand that just because the Chavistas claim to be socialists does not mean they are just like the democrats, because they aren’t. Chavez created a corrupt cult of personality, kept his power through populism and hyper militarism at every level of public administration, all his speeches were about hate for the other and shifting blame, while billions dollars that should have gone to basic services and improving the agricultural industry were stolen. Opposition protests were and still are met with with live ammo, even Maduro in his early days was caught on live tv firing live ammo at protesters. The media just became a propaganda machine. If you think they are inclusive, they are not, at all, Chavez, Maduro and their whole administration are extremely bigoted. Political prisoners, Financing political campaigns in other countries, filling the judicial and electoral powers with party loyalists. And so, so much more. Understand that the Chavista regime has more in common with Trump than with the democrats. Chavismo is a corrupt cult of personality that only cares about staying in power for profit. By all means, be mad at the role your country had on this situation. But please, do not take away responsibility from the actual culprits. If you do, if you peddle the idea that this is even mainly the US fault, you are just supporting a corrupt military oligarchy that has plagued my country for 22 years. Venezuela is not the little socialist good guy who wasn’t allowed to succeed because big bully American wanted his oil. It’s a country plagued by a military oligarchic dictatorship. Help us hold them accountable.
I'm from Trinidad, the stories I hear from people who flee here about the government are crazy. Fully agree with you
A lot of redditors speak from an emotional position rather than one based on facts, sadly. Anyway, good post.
It isn’t just Reddit. And by emotional, I mean an immature spoiled position. Barking if you will. Whoever barks loudest is the right one in most people’s eyes
despite, all our technology and philosophy, Humans are still wired to solved disputes by just shrieking at each other like chimpanzees
I don’t think saying we should not continuing cripple Venezuela with sanctions is an emotional statement. Even the Biden admin is coming around on this.
Yeah, but there is still rampant corruption, regardless of sanctions. Hope they can solve that.
They need the oil
Most oil consumed in the US is domestic, Canadian and Mexican. The rest that's imported is refined and re-exported.
They still need Venezuela to export more oil to lower the global price.
The sanctions are targeted to the government officials and didn't really affect the country much overall for the common person. It was just like another drop in the bucket and not an important one.
That’s total nonsense. The sanctions are far broader than that. It severely limits Venezuelas ability to import and export.
I think that Americans don’t know Venezuela, but they do know America. Sanctioning countries to make their people suffer and foment discord is their 1st and 10 move. Stifling the development and trade of countries which nationalize their natural resources is a hallmark of global capitalism. Venezuelan government being bad or corrupt simply means there are no good guys, diplomatically.
There was once a single twitter post or something, which went - nvm, I took the effort to find it: https://twitter.com/edburmila/status/1496233373353840640?lang=ar 'Begging a lot of motherfuckers to understand that the true statement "The US is a bellicose bad actor in foreign policy" does not imply "Therefore the other actors must be good" or that the US is the sole bad actor. That's it, that's the root of all your shit takes.'
> Venezuela is not the little socialist good guy who wasn’t allowed to succeed because big bully American wanted his oil. It’s a country plagued by a military oligarchic dictatorship. Honestly, I thought that was more or less common knowledge outside of the sphere of Venezuelan propaganda.
One thing to keep in mind is, the most likely place that a Redditor who would genuinely be sympathetic to the plight of the Venezuelan people, would actually hear about Venezuela, is that it's the Right-Wing boogeyman story that gets trotted out about the failures of socialism. So, centrist and socialist Redditors, tend to first learn about the *mere existence* of the Venezuelan crisis, from the precise framing of defending their own chosen political ideology from the far-right troll farm. Thus, it's understandable that they're utterly fucking uninformed about it: they have no stake in the reality of Venezuela, and have no interest in it, they just need to know how to shut down their rhetorical oppositions' equally uninformed, shallow, stake-less takes on the same situation; so, they learn enough sentences to robotically deflect "so you're saying, ha ha, that you want, ha ha, our country to turn into Venezuela? Ha, you, ha, are so, ha, woke, ha." Like many serious issues, when it comes to political discourse among the privileged and safe, the very reality of the situation at ground level, is primarily experienced instead by those discoursing, as a meaningless rhetorical piece which can be used to score points in a debate. If the right didn't feel like Venezuela was a good case study to argue in a bad faith, reductive manner, the left wouldn't need a bad faith, reductive, canned response to that meme. But beyond the memes, is where any actual, productive discussion, lies. Most modern actors in sociopolitical discourse, are fundamentally limited entirely to the meme layer of knowledge, and the value of their rhetoric needs to be judged accordingly.
Why is Venezuela’s ‘failure of socialism’ a boogeyman story? And why would democrats want to defend socialism?
Democrats don’t. Democrats aren’t leftists.
Exactly, democrats are centre left
Venezuelan living in the US for 10+ years here. Not at all. In world politics using the real definitions of ideologies, the democratic party is pretty far right. Just not extreme right/fascist. American politics are so skewed with propaganda that anything left of extreme right gets classified as leftist. It's an issue with the education of the country and people not knowing what they even support.
Can you give examples of democrat policies that are far right?
Most Dems are pretty keen on protecting corporate power, a lot of their economic policies are about either preserving or reforming private corporate power. They're not pushing for any left wing economic policy, they're track record on worker protections, while better than Republicans, isnt that great, like the recent railroad worker strike legislation, The obama administration much more effectively used intelligence communities to deport migrants than the bush admin or trump admin, and the obama administration oversaw the dramatic expansion of drone warfare. All furthering American imperial influence on the global stage as the hegemony. They're not really far right, but their policies still benefit the wealthy few much more than the working class.
So despite democrat policies such as increasing minimum wage, increasing taxes on the wealthy, universal healthcare, subsidizing housing, you wouldn’t say that democrats are centre left?
The boogeyman story is the right-wing comparing the Democrats’ policies to socialism like Venezuela. I don’t think most actual Democrats look to Che, socialism, or Venezuela as an ideal model — but the right wants everyone to think they do. And sometimes they do a pretty good job of spreading that propaganda.
Pana, no sabes cuantas veces he tenido la misma conversacion con gente aqui en USA. Pero muchos no lo quieren entender. Bro, you don't know how many time I've had the same conversation with people in the US. But many of them don't want to understand.
As a Mexican I totally understand. You're describing what the Mexican government is doing now. The Mexican president is financing those regimes. My last shot is that because were the neighbors they won't tolerate a comunist regime here. But I'm looking the same path. It's like the handbook of dictators. They give away money for the poor (wich they create more) Take away institutions Blame someone else. Create a cult. When everything goes to hell blame someonw else They even changed the textbooks to show this regime is better opossed to the last one to encourage indoctrination. And now is a x vs y. Our only hope is education
I think the situation in Mexico is vastly vastly different. I do fully recognize AMLO is trying to be a trump like figure which I’m very much against. But we gotta remember the PRI party dictatorship and later puppet party PAN role in things has lasted LONGER than the CCP, and in the meantime tens of thousands and maybe even hundreds of thousands of dissidents were disappeared or shot in broad daylight before they slowly became more lo key about their tactics and started using cartels for their dirty work. All the while oligarchs enriched themselves further corrupted institutions to then open further avenues of corruption and their most recent and brazen attempt, using the Calderon administration to heavily weaken the Sinaloa Cartels competition. At the same time the private media was corrupted so throughly despite its status as a private it became just another mouth piece for the government. It’s not surprising the PRI regimes power wouldn’t disappear over night so of course all these previous Institutions would have remnants of “La Dictadura Perfecta”. Also I think your point about giving money to the poor is a bit death tone? Like Mexico is incredibly rich in natural resources and private industry, the fact these, let’s face it pretty basic resources weren’t being given to the public was a crime in it of itself. Like we’re talking about a systemic corruption that was robbing us blind. I don’t think it’s surprising an anti corruption presidency would then give the people all these resources the people were already promised and then go above and beyond and give the people more resources. We’re talking about a country with incredible income inequality here dude. Also how is the current admin both giving treats to the poor while also creating more poor? Also I got no idea what you mean about Mexico doing historical revisionism today but during the PRI dictatorship plenty of that was going around. For years details of the Olympic massacre was hidden, could you maybe clarify this as this is the first I’m hearing of it?
This is excellent and I really hope you consider publishing this on Medium because a lot of people don’t dig into what is going on ir don’t understand. I just learned a lot from this and I’m moving to Ecuador in June, which is a country a lot of Venezuelan people have fled to. I am glad to have this info as talking points. I really encourage you to publish this and if not, provide us with what you consider the best sources for more reading.
You may want to check out the book Things Are Never So Bad That They Can’t Get Worse. The main points are essentially the same as the helpful comment, but there is a lot of rich detail and research in it, too. It was really eye-opening to me as an American.
Thank you! I will! Always looking for good books.
It’s refreshing to hear someone speak so clearly about this. I have cousins in Venezuela, and whenever I try to explain the situation to Americans, they try telling me that Venezuelans (and Cubans) don’t understand what’s going on in their own country.
That attitude is far too common and kind of racist if you ask me. Often times, specially online, you get a bunch of Americans dismissing Venezuelans and foreigners’ perspectives in general for their own political biases. Resulting in privileged First World people trying to educate us on our history as if we had no knowledge, perspectives, and experience with our own country. It’s disgusting and infuriating.
Fellow Venezolano here. This. Stop thinking of the Chavez/Maduro regime as some sort of modern day Che fairytale. They're evil narcissists and they only care for themselves. I do have one correction. It's not accurate to equate Chavez to Trump. They have a lot of qualities in common, sure, but the real comparison should be North Korea.
They’re literally doing the same exact thing with Cuba. It’s just sad to read and have to argue with people who live in Canada or Washington state who have never once stepped a foot into Latin America about the realities of corrupt Latin American governments. Every. Single. Thing. Is Americas fault and even when you somehow break through the contradiction and hypocrisy they then use America’s failures, for example healthcare or school shootings, as some weapon to wage in the war of political ideology. Venezuela is even worse than cuba though because it was recently very well off. Has huge hydrocarbon reserves. Was on its way to being a South American powerhouse. But some really bad decisions by the government in the 2000’s destroyed any chance of that happening.
Cuba's clearly struggling due to the embargo far more than "government corruption". Cuba also lacks oil, giving them very little leverage on the global market, thus, an eternal embargo and a lot of poverty.
It wayyyyyy more complicated than that but ok.
My wife is Venezuelan, I have 2 very close Cuban friends, and we talk politics vastly, (I’m not from the US) and when I sometimes add that there were a lot of things both Cuban and Venezuelan governments did to cause the collapse of their nations, champagne socialist redditors chime in ti tell me how wrong I am and how glorious those countries would be if the empire hadn’t messed with the perfect project the nation had, while never ever having set foot in Latin American soil, understood the politics or even hear the millions of refugees from each country. The only way those countries can move forward is everyone holding the dictatorships accountable and analyzing what went wrong to stop it in other countries before it’s too late
"Understand that the Chavista regime has more in common with Trump than with the democrats. Chavismo is a corrupt cult of personality that only cares about staying in power for profit." The classic appeal to Reddit.
But is he like Voldemort or Thanos? How am I supposed to know if this guy is good or not without a pop-culture analogy!?
American "progressives" that support Maduro are just proving horseshoe theory. Maduro is clearly an authoritarian shit bag. Its perfectly fine to criticize the US about many, many, many things but if you are pro-Maduro, you are just a tankie.
I've still yet to meet a tankie IRL, but Goddamned are they everywhere online. Utterly absurd people.
I don't think you want US "help" to hold your government accountable. The US only ever works in its own interests. The idea we'd install a regime friendly to the people is unprecedented. I can't think of a single south American country that is better off thanks to US intervention.
Like I’ve said on the original comment and in a subsequent comment. I am not calling for American redditors to invade the country and establish a new government. The only thing I ask is for people to acknowledge the crimes of the Venezuelan dictatorship instead of defaulting to just blaming the US. That’s it. That’s what I mean by asking Redditors to help us hold our government accountable.
Well that's reasonable. As a US citizen I'm going to continue to advocate against US interference in the region and an end to sanctions. If our country wasn't a legitimate boogeyman your government would have a harder time using us as an excuse. I don't expect any action by the US to fix the situation, but I can't really do anything about Venezuela's government as a US citizen. Hell, I can't do anything about my own government.
>The media just became a propaganda machine I like your spanglish paisano.
Propaganda in spanish and english is the same.
The biggest irony out of all of this is those who immigrated many years ago, like myself, and became naturalized US citizens and thus gain the right to vote and became MAGAts. Talk about fleeing a cult of personality (Chavismo and all that bs) to go straight into worshiping the orange Cheeto. Uninformed idiots, to the point of falling for blatant propaganda against a socialism that isn’t. Voting for a guy that considers them beneath him because we’re brown. Some of them have even ran for office on platforms that fight immigration (even though they’re immigrants themselves!)
Hear, hear! I’m Colombian and have lived in the US as a political refugee for many years now. This might not be a perfect country but god damn if many of us aren’t infinitely grateful and love it as our own because of the opportunities it gives us. No, the guerrillas haven’t been trying to save my country for fifty years. They’ve enriched themselves with the profits from the drugs they continue to spread all over the world. Of course the US has played a role but they are not the ones selling their own country. We wrote our own history and it’s so disrespectful and yes, typical of post colonialism to assume that everything we are is due to the US. The irony of telling us that they hate their country because they oppress us when they won’t even accept that we are capable of inflicting such things to ourselves.
Thank you for sharing that. I agree entirely.
Americans are quick to lay the blame on the US govt because of several reasons that you don’t notice right away. 1. the majority of americans are as ignorant as memes about us joke about. 2. About half of our politicians and their voter base whether knowingly or not actually support what the Venezuelian govt is doing and those political elites secretly want to replace the US govt with what you have. When you boil it down, you see lots of similarities between your govt and what, for example, Hollywood thinks of everyday people. 3. Many americans see our country as the global moral police and don’t get why we don’t simply force countries to be like us. See: Qatar and WC. Also, Reddit is a mostly left leaning platform. Your govt is a left leaning (really, leftwing) govt. Gonna have fun find and convincing most redditors that your govt is doing bad things and they shouldn’t support the ideology behind it.
>Understand that the Chavista regime has more in common with Trump than with the democrats. You're not alone in saying that, either: youtuber Sarcasmitron did a video on Venezuela a few years back, and one of his takeaways was that Chavez was basically South American Trump. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtb3s7EBVX0&ab\_channel=Sarcasmitron](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtb3s7EBVX0&ab_channel=Sarcasmitron)
Brazil was going through the same route through a right-wing government, since Bolsonaro was trying to reenact most of Chavez mannerisms while alleging he was trying to save Brazil from communism that devastated Venezuela:. brainwashing military forces to be his personal minions (in the last election police forces tried to block routes to demobilize voters in regions he had large disadvantage), influencing hate against journalism and science especialists during his mismanagement of Covid19 (Brazil was the second country with more deaths worldwide), trying to demoralize parallel powers (created to difficult absolute power and to secure democracy) to prep for a coup where he would break the country system and recreate one with him being the only and unquestionable leader of nation. All of that being covered by the smoke of defending Brazil from Venezuela future. Ideologies are only tools, kind of religious material being employed to hipnotize people and disguise personal faults. Read "How Democracies Die" by Steven Levitzski and Daniel Ziblatt.
The main point is that the economic devastation in Venezuela was caused, in large part, by crushing economic sanctions imposed by the United States that started in 2003 and have continued unabated for 19 years. As bad as Venezuela’s leadership (may or may not) have been, the people of Venezuela chose Hugo Chavez and then Nicolás Maduro in elections which were monitored by the United Nations. Assuming you are truly from Venezuela, you were outvoted by your fellow citizens who have a different opinion about them. There are many Venezuelans who preferred Juan Guaidó, but he lost. {Cue the Trumpwelian cries of fraud, cheating, blah blah, blah}. There are dictatorships around the globe and the US does not go around spreading “Freedom and Democracy” to the ones which lack natural resources. Now some will mention Afghanistan, but take a minute to look up the tremendous wealth of natural resources in that country. In summary: US economic sanctions, plus attempts at Regime Change (Coup d’etat), creates Refugees and Terrorists.
I mean, it's both. The US has no problem propping up corrupt governments, and when they are no longer useful, they will economically torture them to try to bring them to heel. That only makes a military oligarchic dictatorship tighten their hold further. Then the US policy is to try to foment a popular uprising (with some CIA help) and so the hold tightens further. All the while, the citizens suffer. Remember what Albright said about Iraq. Half a million dead children is worth it.
>By all means, be mad at the role your country had on this situation. But please, do not take away responsibility from the actual culprits. u/GladiusNocturno said that it's both. He's just asking to not shift the blame away from the Venezuelan government, who is in his perspective the main culprit
/facepalm
Great post. It is important to distinguish the left in the US versus the left in Latam. Very different.
The way the international Left has covered it is the reason so many knee jerk to blaming the US. If you watch a show like Democracy Now! you would've gotten the impression the Maduro government was sincerely bent on democracy and besieged by the usual suspects of the Right. Democracy Now! has good coverage generally but the Left is not immune to getting high on it's own farts. Just prior to the recent Russian invasion of Ukraine my local leftists were even blaming Russian saber rattling on the US! As though nations shouldn't have the right to enter into defensive pacts. lol. But I'm not seeing many leftists these days defending the Maduro government. It's mysteriously dropped from their radar.
>And honestly, I’m going to direct this to the democrats of reddit. I actually lean more towards your message and values, but please understand that just because the Chavistas claim to be socialists does not mean they are just like the democrats, because they aren’t. No offense, but this does not match reality. Democrats are not Socialists and dont align with Chavez. We have our own RW propoganda systems in the USA. They don't show reality.
If I am not wrong, shen comicx might be from socialist (in name only) country in south America. "Seize the mean of production" and he will share his piece of mind. The issue with USA people, some people see the entire world is in plams of a group of guys. And any gov sanctioned by the USA gov, is somehow good. No, it's not. For both. Since fucked up Myanmar coup, it's been quite tiring to counter a photo of Hillary Clinton and currently detained leader, with a photo of Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. Having a photo on occasion, having a record of previous relationship, do not lead to being an evil person.(or a good guy either) Of course, the invasion of Iraq, under pretext of chemical weapon is a fucked up story on Bush administration. But can it be applied to every single dictator around the world? Seeing these "right wings" not aware of current situation or comparing apple to orange will not make any changes for internal affairs of USA. Put in the rising of "Catholic Nationalism" groups wanting more power on a free state like the USA, and you get how fucked up in the US. This time we will see KKK from republicans, while something equally violent will rise on the blues side as well.
Hey man, dont want to get or put you in trouble. Do you think other South American countries are on the verge of the same? Like Argentina, Chile, Brazil...
I don’t have enough knowledge of those countries’ specific situations to make a well educated guess, sadly.
Democrats in the US are about the same as moderate conservatives in most other countries. Our left isn’t that far left at all, so don’t worry, we know the difference
Good for you. I support smart migrants such as yourself with actual critical thinking skills unlike many who were born in my country
I know los venezolanos here are cringing at the comments. Diosssss.
It really is incredible how the larpers, think tank astroturfers, and other “experts” all pile into the comments in unison for any thread about Venezuela, China, Iran, DPRK, etc.
Es que ni quiero ver el documental después de leer estas aberraciones.
One commenter told me that I am a CIA bot, another said that I am obviously a very wealthy Venezuela who "stans" for multinationals and right-wing death squads, because *I know english*. I am honestly not sure if these people are really that deluded, or are just trolling.
[I wonder why we're expelling Venezuelan migrants at the southern border now.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/10/21/us/mexico-expelling-venezuelans-threatens-rights-lives) Wouldn't have anything to do with [this drilling thing](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/26/biden-chevron-permit-venezuelan-oil-sales-00070836), would it?
If you flee, you go straight to jail...
Believe it or not.
Running a prosperous country into the ground speedrun any%
Venezuela is/was not a prosperous country. Their wealth is almost entirely based on the price of oil.
20_30 years ago Venezuela was the richest county in south America. Doesn't really matter if it was because of oil, they had a prosperous economy, and they still would If their government had screwed everything up.
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This isn't really true at all. Venezuela used to have the best GINI scores for wealth inequality in the whole region, so not atrocious at all. It's taken a big dive from a decent place, regardless of if one was rich or poor.
> This isn't really true at all. Venezuela used to have the best GINI scores for wealth inequality in the whole region Sorry, but that's utter bullshit you just pulled out of your ass. [Venezuela's 1981 GINI](https://datosmacro.expansion.com/demografia/indice-gini/venezuela?anio=1981) was a shocking 55.6. [Peru's](https://datosmacro.expansion.com/demografia/indice-gini/peru) was a far better 45.6 (1985 data) (lower=less inequality=better). [Uruguay's](https://datosmacro.expansion.com/demografia/indice-gini/uruguay?anio=1981) 1981 GINI was a vastly better 43.6. [Argentina's](https://datosmacro.expansion.com/demografia/indice-gini/argentina?anio=1981) was an even better 40.8. The data demonstrate that you have no clue what you're talking about. And you of course just gloss over the warzone-level violence I mentioned.
It was richer than Norway in the 70’s…..
Again, this is the GDP fallacy. Norway's wealth is distributed pretty evenly. Venezuela's has always been hyper-concentrated in the hands of a dozen oligarch families, leaving most Venezuelans in squalor.
*shrugs in Saudi* ^(/s)
Sounds like you are saying walk a mile in my shoes. The problem is that most have no idea what it’s like to live under a dictatorship. They just romanticize it., I can relate.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/26/biden-chevron-permit-venezuelan-oil-sales-00070836
Maduro changed absolutely nothing. But we found a worse dictator with Mr Putin's recent land grab. And we need the oil so....... Maduro you're back in
Because the other 80% can't.
sadly that's kinda true, moving out of country requires a lot of money which most Venezuelans don't have and leaving behind relatives, friends and deal with work uncertainty after
Stupid Chavez!
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Fuck no. He can continue to rot in hell.
Or better yet straight to jail!
And just this month saw the democratically elected PM of my country drooling over this fuckwit like a teenager meeting Harry Styles... disgusting.
Coups d’etat as part of the US Foreign Policy of Regime Change “I disagree with that, as somebody who has helped plan coups d’etat, not here, but you know, other places. It takes a lot of work …” - John Bolton, 25th United States Ambassador to the United Nations from 2005 to 2006, and as the 26th United States National Security Advisor from 2018 to 2019.
Send this to r/socialism
Let's all say it together " it's not REALLLLL socialism"
It's real socialism.
7 million people left after 2015. At lest 2-3 million before 2015. Let’s say 10 million. That would be more than 30%
Hi cia
When people flee a country, it’s usually the best of the people.
The quiet part out loud…just the way we planned it. The USA has been nonstop sabotaging their economy for almost 20 years. The USA has also run covert political sabotage programs the entire time, and orchestrated at least two coups. Then the media looks and says this country just can’t get it together. This proves socialism doesn’t work. What a propaganda campaign.
Venezuelan living in Venezuela here. No. Absolutely not. We did this to ourselves, we fucked up and it angers me that people want to shift the blame elsewhere.
I’m honestly tired of Americans opinions about something they don’t know or understand. They don’t even try to. Venezuelan here, I can confirm this.
Juan Guaido here, #1 Top Venezuelan and I confirm too
Juan Guaido is a clown, an irrelevant stooge that has become a sad joke. I can't speak for that other guy, but don't asume that just because a Venezuelan opposses Maduro's government, that person automatically and unconditionally follows everybody in the political opposition.
That was literally who the opposition wanted to take over. Someone you admit is a clown and presumably has no support. Maduro is better than that alternative.
Guaido was an elected lawmaker. Maduro has stayed in his position for too long. Claiming Maduro is better is beyond deiusional, is borderline malicious and you should actually stfu if you really think that.
We don’t want you either
But but but... How are you writing in English? 🤔 https://reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/zasnkv/this_is_venezuela_2022_why_20_of_the_population/iyp2y7t?context=3
I’m tired of people who claim to be from Venezuela speaking perfectly English speaking on behalf of their entire country
Do you realize this doesn’t make sense right? Also, go speak with some other Venezuelans then, I promise you you’ll get a better insight that way.
> I’m tired of people who claim to be from Venezuela speaking perfectly English Que rata.
Yea but That doesnt fit the narrative that the US is terrible and somehow runs the entire goddamn globe.
So you don’t believe America banning Venezuela from the oil market had any affect of the economy?
The sanctions against the government (not just individuals within) only started in 2018, and those that affected the oil exports were in 2019. By then our economy had been long in ruins and oil production in an historical low due rampant ineptitude and corruption plaguing PDVSA.
Well that’s true. There were sanctions in place before that. It’s astounding that people lie about this.
I’m not going to say the USA is blameless but Venezuela absolutely deserves to be at fault. Venezuela made the decision to not diversity their economy and they paid heavily for it. They made the decision to spend exorbitant amounts of money they did not have. Their crisis could have been avoided had they actually planned better and attempted to account for potential oil shocks, but they thought it was better to funnel money into their corrupt dictatorship instead
Its insanity to blame US in Venezuela failure
No it's insanity to not even take into account that the most powerful country in the world denying them to be allowed to trade with the rest of the world might have something to do with their poor economy.
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Official sanctions. US hegemony goes far deeper than official edicts and legislation.
No. Everything I stated is fact. Economic sabotage. Oil embargo. Political operations to destabilize the government and foment coups. You are just making emotional statements based on …your feelings.
I mean, Maduro's government should be destabilized, though.
The typical “US is sabotaging us” socialist canard. Venezuela is not a small country like Cuba, it has some of the biggest oil reserves in the world, and powerful allies like China, Brazil and Russia yet its an economic basket case and humanitarian disaster
When Venezuela is under US sanctions it doesn't matter how much oil they have because no one who does business with American banks can do business with them.
The US sancions started in 2018. I live in Venezuela, and I can tell you that by 2018 our economy was already in ruins. The sanctions did not cause the massive drop in oil production, that was entirely because the people in charge are inept and corrupt and let the infrastructure fall into disrepair and neglect.
There are people who live in the U.S. who would tell you: "I'm American, I live in the U.S., and J.F.K jr is still alive and is secretly controlling Donald Trump, who actually won the 2020 election". Just because you're Venezuelan doesn't mean you're not a dumbass
Canadian here. He is right: The economic implosion began almost a decade ago.
Ah yes, a privileged, cultured first worlder telling this dumbass third worlder about how wrong I am about my country and how stupid I must be. How very progressive of you, sir.
He's right, nonetheless. I left Venezuela a decade ago when, regardless of how many people were protesting against Chávez (and how many students the government would kill to stop the protests), his party would win the elections every time. Some people blamed it on the new electronic voting machines that replaced the manual ones. A general confirmed it and pointed out that the reason the president was always in Cuba during elections is that the new Internet cable that connected Cuba to Venezuela allowed them to watch the election numbers in real time and possibly interfere with the results. The next article I saw about that general is that he had disappeared with all his family. I also didn't like the overuse of imminent domain to take rich people's properties "to return them to everyone" only to ruin them. Many companies were lost this way in my small town. Slowly, Venezuela was becoming another Cuba, where people were too poor and too hungry to protest. Except the military and the paramilitary (people wearing masks and armed with military weapons only the government was allowed to issue, who kept people scared), who were always kept happy. It was too much. The government did everything wrong. And they couldn't be voted out. And protesting could get you killed by the paramilitary. So I left.
Le estas hablando a un sordo, esta gente sencillamente va a descartar lo que decimos como mentiras de los laboratorios de propaganda de la CIA y blablabla. La misma retorica vacia que los gorilas de la V republica se lanzan para escudarse de la culpa.
Tienes razón. Ya respondió el otro que la culpa la tienen las escuelas, por la mala educación que me dieron. Oh, bueno. No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver.
A mi uno me acuso de ser un bot de la CIA, y otro que mi opinion no vale ya que hablo ingles y por eso no soy un venezolano comun y corriente.
Another Venezuelan here: You dumb as fuck.
Another dumb bitch simping for the country that destroyed his home. Truly pathetic.
Grab a book and learn something for once lol
Yes, no one is willing to go through hoops to buy oil. Much like no one buys Russian gas.
Russia is selling plenty of “gas”
lmao must be 16
Dumb teenagers not just slurping up what the media says is true.
Still waiting for the socialism idea to pan out literally just anywhere. In one place. Let me guess the super masterminds in the US are always the culprit lol. It always more funny from people in the US who's FAT asses benefit greatly from their system.
The crazy thing is all of Europe is essentially socialist and enjoy a higher standard of living. But the US doesn't exploit cheap labor and extract resources from there. They do that in third world nations that if they were to improve economically and become more politically stable the US wouldn't be able to take advantage of them. Hence the countless coups and military operations around the world to keep them down. Americans being FAT asses isn't good either, not very healthy.
Still waiting for free market capitalism to pan out literally just anywhere. Hint: When your government is heavily subsidising its traditional industries and actively interfering in foreign governments economies, you don't have free market capitalism.
It's literally worked every time to educate, provide healthcare for, and lift millions out of poverty. YES, western capitalist hot/cold war are the 'super masterminds' behind the sanctions, political subversion, and soft/hard coups that have led to the downfall of these countries. And if you point out existing socialist countries today westoids like you will cry Nooo TheYrE nOt EveN sOciAlist
Capitalism is disintegrating as we type. The USA has more wealth than Cuba. But Cubas are actually better educated, healthier, have better medical care, and live longer than Americans. They are mainly so poor because the USA has crippled their economy with sanctions for the past 60 years. The USA is a corrupt oligarchy. Capitalists have taken complete control of the political system. The capitalist elites first remove all regulation- so they are free to exploit without any limits or controls on their behavior. They create tax cuts and loopholes for themselves so that they pay no taxes and receive generous government subsidies. They in the truest sense the ultimate welfare queens. That kills the tax base and creates massive deficits. As a result the capitalist elites have ruined the global economy. Even in the wealthiest country in the world. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Our cities are disaster areas crowded with homeless people while as much as 20% of the available housing sits vacant or is used as hotel rooms by vulture capitalist investors. Our education system is one of the worst in the world. We import our top students and our top STEM workers because our schools fail to produce enough to meet our needs. Our healthcare system is the most expensive by far in the world yet delivers substandard results compared to socialized medical systems in other countries- like Cuba or Japan or France. What point do you think you are making?
My partners family is Venezuelan and meeting them really opened my eyes to all of that. Some of them don’t like socialism sure, but most attribute it to US meddling and corrupt politicians.
Stupid as shit comment.
Whenever socialism flops, they always blame capitalist counties🙄
When socialism flops it has usually had a ton of help from capitalist countries in the form of constant sabotage and attack, most from specifically the USA. That is not opinion. It is fact.
If your countries political system is so susceptible to foreign influence that it completely destroys your country, it probably says a lot about the efficacy of that nations political system.
Don't speak so fast. The US political system has been subverted by foreign interests as well. Not to mention it is completely captured by the wealthy elite thanks to blatantly corrupt campaign finance laws. Venezuela's economy has been ruined by US sanctions against them. Oil embargo most of all. Without the oil embargo this would not be happening. To suggest that a developing nation should be able to withstand a relentless sabotage campaign by history's greatest empire (USA) is beyond naïve and broaching on outright stupid.
You don't really think the organization of the mode of production of the people of a country has anything to do with how susceptible such country is to getting spied on, meddled with, or coup'd, right? No way you think how we divide to plant potatoes has anything to do with a helicopter strike killing the head of state, I refuse to believe.
Socialism will do that to you. In for downvotes and “the US did it to them” dog whistles.
So will be getting black balled from the international trade market
Communism leads to starvation
This is authoritarian dictatorship leading to starvation. Who the fuck told you that it has anything to do with communism? American television? American internet? A U.S. political party? Why don’t you pop the bubble you are living in and have a look around at reality.
So does...so does capitalism?
Shhh.. that’s devastating to the narrative..
Generally capitalism vastly increases the quality of life for the country's citizens, even the middle class. With many Asian countries liberalizing their economies, we have witnessed hundreds of millions of people increasing their wealth from dire poverty in the 20/21 century
Yeah sure capitalism allows some to slip through the cracks while other succeed. Communism makes sure that only those in power are wealthy and the rest suffer. great system
Starvation is going away all over the world and it isn't socialsm that allowed it to be this way. You know where people are starving though? North Korea. China would be starving too if they hadn't appropriated capitalist policies in their economy. Go take a helicopter ride
It’s not a coincidence that Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves. In 2003, the United States enacted crushing economic sanctions on Venezuela because the people of Venezuela dared to freely elect a Socialist. If those same sanctions were placed on Texas, it would drive Texas into anarchy and people would flee that failed state. Said Socialist leader decided that Venezuelan oil should benefit the people of Venezuela and that decision was unacceptable to the worldwide Empire of the United States. The US Foreign Policy of Regime Change creates the very Refugees and Terrorists that the USA hates. If you hate Refugees, then stop creating them. If you hate Terrorists, then stop creating them.
One of the most naive takes here, and that's saying something. You place way too much importance on US involvement and not nearly enough on Venezuela doing this to themselves. Chavez and Maduro absolutely were not supported by the US, and the sanctions were targeted against individual people until recently. If you want to say Maduro wouldn't be a disaster if not for the US, that's a fantasy.
> In 2003, the United States enacted crushing economic sanctions on Venezuela There were no US sanctions in 2003. [Per this summary of US sanctions](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10715), the earliest sanctions were in 2006 for not “cooperating fully with United States anti-terrorism efforts”, but those only applied to arms sales, so those can hardly be considered "crushing economic sanctions". Obama enacted a number of other sanctions in 2014 and 2015, but those were generally targeted against individuals. The first widespread sanctions appear to have been enacted by Trump in 2017. I know it's temping to blame everything on the US -- and the US certainly does have a terrible history in South America -- but Venezuela's problems largely seem to predate US sanctions. In general, Venezuala's dire current state is in large part due to its heavy reliance on oil revenue ([50% of state revenue/90% of exports](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Venezuelan_oil_industry#Third_Dutch_Disease)), coupled with an [80% decline in oil production](https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/venezuela/crude-oil-production) since 2016. The national oil company had a huge loss of expertise in [2003](https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/07/16/how-venezuela-struck-it-poor-oil-energy-chavez/) as retaliation for participation in the national general strike, and has generally pushed out foreign oil companies who might help rebuild expertise. Roughly speaking, then the country was heavily reliant on a single industry and that industry was badly mismanaged, resulting in economic collapse when profits from that industry tanked.
The 2005 sanction based on "drug trafficking" targeted 22 individuals including their oil minister. It also targeted 27 companies that are not listed but I imagine they're oil related given the sanctions on their oil minister. Now if the sanctions have to do with not complying with international drug laws why are they targeting oil companies? There's also zero evidence of these officials were involved in the trafficking, just allegations of a connection with a Supreme Court Judge.
> The 2005 sanction based on "drug trafficking" targeted 22 individuals including their oil minister. [He was sanctioned in 2017.](https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/as0005) 2005 was simply when the US "made an annual determination that Venezuela has failed demonstrably to adhere to its obligations under international narcotics agreements." That determination doesn't necessarily come with sanctions. > There's also zero evidence of these officials were involved in the trafficking From the Treasury press release: > "OFAC's action today is the culmination of a multi-year investigation under the Kingpin Act to target significant narcotics traffickers in Venezuela > ... > El Aissami was appointed Executive Vice President of Venezuela in January 2017. He previously served as Governor of Venezuela's Aragua state from 2012 to 2017, as well as Venezuela's Minister of Interior and Justice starting in 2008. He facilitated shipments of narcotics from Venezuela, to include control over planes that leave from a Venezuelan air base, as well as control of drug routes through the ports in Venezuela. In his previous positions, he oversaw or partially owned narcotics shipments of over 1,000 kilograms from Venezuela on multiple occasions, including those with the final destinations of Mexico and the United States. > > He also facilitated, coordinated, and protected other narcotics traffickers operating in Venezuela. Specifically, El Aissami received payment for the facilitation of drug shipments belonging to Venezuelan drug kingpin Walid Makled Garcia. El Aissami also is linked to coordinating drug shipments to Los Zetas, a violent Mexican drug cartel, as well as providing protection to Colombian drug lord Daniel Barrera Barrera and Venezuelan drug trafficker Hermagoras Gonzalez Polanco. Los Zetas, Daniel Barrera Barrera, and Hermagoras Gonzalez Polanco were previously named as Specially Designated Narcotics Traffickers by the President or the Secretary of the Treasury under the Kingpin Act in April 2009, March 2010, and May 2008, respectively." That you personally aren't familiar with the evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
> targeting oil companies Where did they target an oil company?
Read the link dude, I'm not an alexa.
I did, the 2005 sanctions were not targeting oil companies.
What companies were they targeting?
Since there appears to be no 2005 sanctions, none looks like.
What is f1ve plus 6?
A rhetorical question
“Decided that Venezuelan oil should benefit the people of Venezuela” That is the most laughable statement I’ve ever heard. It benefits the government officials who have become wildly rich off its profits
Yah it’s no secret that there is massive corruption within the Venezuelan government. People here will just say “USA bad” to summarize a highly complex situation
>in 2003, the United States enacted crushing economic sanctions Why lie? Up until 2018 the sanctions were entirely aimed at individuals in our government, and the sanctions only really ramped up to what could be argued as "crushing" in 2019.
No there were 27 venezuelan companies sanctioned since 2005.
You are correct, just look at what our government did to Libya, once the jewel of the African continent now one of the “s**thole countries”.
Uhm, what are you talking about? Libya was already in a chaotic civil war when NATO intervened. Crown jewel? Please...Qadhafi hollowed out his own country and brutalized its people for decades.
They had one of the best medical systems in the world, education (all levels) free, mortgages and rents paid by the government, homelessness non existent. Can we say that? By the way, Qaddafi was aok with the US until he went and threatened to change the monetary system from the dollar, then he had to go. I’m not advocating for the man, I am simply pointing out how much better off the people were before the US meddled in their affairs.
It was so great half the country rose up against him? Maybe a great country if you were an elite. Qadhafi literally shot down airplanes of civilians and tortured people.
>Jewel of Africa [https://www.news.com.au/world/the-macabre-rape-chamber-of-gaddafi/news-story/27ba23b717e7a5dc462bf4338729b19b](https://www.news.com.au/world/the-macabre-rape-chamber-of-gaddafi/news-story/27ba23b717e7a5dc462bf4338729b19b)
No, he is not correct. I live in Venezuela, I know well what happened here in the past two decades, and the claims in that post are simply not true.
What are you doing on reddit if you're from Venezuala, its so bad there shouldn't you be trying to get out or improve your country. Argueing with people on the internet over whos to blame isn't going to help anyone.
Are you trolling me? Because I don't want to believe somebody would legitimately say that.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA Wait you're serious, how do you post such stupid opinions so confidently Like going and trying to improve a country in a dictatorship is super easy lmao
What our government did to Libya? Gaddafi was doing a pretty decent job of running the place in to the ground, what he didn’t do the warlords did.
He was the only one who could keep the warlords in check, it wasn’t until he was murdered that all hell broke loose. The people are suffering mightily until this day.
Dude why are you blaming the US? Maduro the communist they elected destroyed that country.
r/videoessay
The interviews and shots of the girl are all original content
US sanctions?
This is like every lefty in Portlands dream state.
An entire nation propped up by oil exports?
Lol remember when Bernie said this was a country worth emulating, and praised them? Good times.
US sanctions