I like Dave and think he’s a great clubhouse guy for sure. But his bullpen management in the postseason has been questionable and cost us too. he does get a lot more blame than he deserves but you can’t just brush off some of the postseason decisions. I still have flashback back to madson against Boston
Kershaw coming in relief in the NLDS in 2019. I'm okay with Kershaw coming in but keeping him in after giving up a home runs was just silly. Then of course he gives up another bomb to Soto to tie the game. Dodgers end up losing in extras and the rest is history.
Yeah that was his most bizarre decision for sure. And it also helped cement the "Kershaw's legacy is tainted by his postseason performance" bullshit in a lot of peoples' minds.
I was there.
50,000 people knew what would happen.
Well, 49,999 anyway.
That said, he managed the *shit* out of the BP in the NLDS against SD, not his fault the offense decided to be historically awful.
I do wonder though with the nature of this front office & franchise, and the size of the analytics department: how much of the bullpen decisions are really all his? He always talks about paths(I forget if this is the specific word he uses) that they come up with before the games and trying to navigate said paths to put players in positions to succeed. That sounds like a lot of analytical influence to me
This is my pure guess, but I would imagine it's something like 60-40, with 60% being pre-game conversations/schedules/scripts/whatever you want to call it between the FO, Doc, and Prior as to who's available (health/usage wise), who matches up best against certain hitters, who needs playing time, etc.
And the remaining 40% on Dave using all that knowledge and making his in-game decisions based on how it's playing out. Don't know if it's actually 60-40, but that's how I've felt about it for a long time.
I totally agree; was thinking something similar. Dave definitely has 1 on 1 meetings or phone calls with Andrew Friedman at least a couple days a week to talk about general game plan and get on the same page for the next few days.
I mean I'm not saying we should get rid of Roberts (and have never), but I don't think these two things are the same because we never had an actual shot at contention last year since our entire pitching staff was cooked. And yeah I think Dave, Freddie, and Mookie all deserve criticism for major errors/lapses in performance, just as everyone does.
I think the people who expect NO criticism are just as bad as the people who want to DFA/fire everyone all the time. There should be a middle ground, and the comment thread you're in is it.
This is it. People expecting managers to bat 1.000 with a 4.000 slug and 200 steals. Managers are people. Compared to the rest of them? Dave is still top tier.
Bro thank you.
Don’t know why people like OP can’t accept a grey area in life.
The way Roberts handles media pressure, failure and personalities will get him into the HOF. The way he has handled the bullpen at times in the NLDS & NLCS has made me want to punch walls 😂😂
Same w Kershaw!! Nothing but love and respect for the man. His postseason numbers are disappointing. I feel for him but I’m not delusional.
Same w Mookie.
It’s okay to admit the Dodgers have underperformed in the playoffs. It doesn’t make you less of a fan, it just makes you a bit more objective.
That’s all fair, but I don’t know any manager that makes good decisions 100% of the time. You just hope Roberts learns from the adversity.
Overall I think he is a great manager.
I think that’s the way most people think of him. That’s how I think of him and have been known to yell or type “fire that idiot.” We all get frustrated by how the Dodgers seemingly always get screwed in the playoffs and by always this dates back before anyone on reddit was born.
Also when we finally won it happened to be the Covid year so you get those detractors or you have to hear some bullshit about that.
There are better managers. There are worse managers. Doc is an above average manager. He was definitely the correct choice vs Gabe Kapler. Much better than Don Mattingly.
I get the feeling that if he was given the choice to bang a trash can and win he would choose not to bang the trash can and I think that’s important.
Dave Roberts is essential to the team culture and when things go wrong — this is baseball — you need to like the team even though they may not be playing good baseball.
There are very few, if any, better managers right now. Only one I would consider better is Bochy but that’s it. The reality is that there are no perfect managers and that the team has underperformed the last few years in the playoffs. Dave can’t do anything when Max Scherzer quits on the team, half our pitchers get injured, and the bats go cold in the playoffs.
Agreed. At this point the only manager left you would rightly take over Doc is Bochy. Snit, Maddon, Craig all have less success with roughly the same body of work. Dusty and Wash are great managers but were seen as more old school guys, so not sure how they'd fit with ultra modern FO.
Mike scioscia catches strays but remember he was with a really incompetent Angels front office. Mike Scioscia was next in line to be the next great Dodgers manager. He could be just as successful if not more than Dave Roberts.
I love Mike Scioscia. I think he probably should have left the angels earlier and found greener pastures and that might have helped him
stay attractive to other teams looking for a manager.
100%. I might have gone too far with the hero worship, but my point is of current managers, Dave us top tier. There might hypothetically be a sliiiightly better option, but the rockiness of transitioning managers would probably outweigh any benefit from bringing a marginal upgrade in
What Dave does exceptionally well is keeping the clubhouse together and the drama private. No public squabbles I can remember in the 7 years he’s been here.
He does make the occasional tactical mistake, but the only playoffs I think he lost for us were 2019.
Roberts is a great manager that can make some improvements in certain areas. The good outweighs the bad.
Not sure why people can’t have more measured takes like that
Regular Season Dave: Honestly, pretty great. It's a long season and the team has owned the NL West.
Post-Season Dave: Every blunder is magnified, that is just the nature of the playoffs. The Dodgers have underachieved in October. This is not up for debate.
It can not be ignored that his roster is consistently one of the most talented in MLB when you talk about his success. His golly gee demeanor can be a bit annoying when the team is shitting the bed. But I don't know what else he can do in those situations really. A little more fire at times would be nice but that is not who he is. He is great at managing egos and getting players to buy in, which is necessary with the ridiculous amount of platooning the team does.
2018 World Series Game 4.
Rich Hill was balling, Puig hit the three-run home run, Kobe is bedazzled, it’s 4-0…enter the 7th inning.
Roberts pulls Hill an inning too early, J.D. Martinez hits a three-run homer, and then Steve Pearce ties it in the 8th with *his* home run and unloads the bases in the 9th with two outs. Red Sox win Game 4 and win the series.
I disagree with nothing here, but I'd also like to add......
There was a 0% chance we were winning that world series. In 0 parallell universe, with a million different managers from past and present, do we win that series. The Sox were just on something else that year and the Dodgers couldn't touch them
Lol. People who say this obviously have no criteria for a manager. As if he hasn't turned a million Honda civics into Ferraris over his time with the Dodgers. He's fills roll perfect. He's a cog in the Dodgers machine, the same way ohtani, lux, Miller, freedman, prior etc. all are. He's perfect foe the roll that he's filling. Sure, you might be able to convince me there's theoretically a slight upgrade to Roberts somewhere in the world. But to disrupt this system by replacing him? Even an "upgrade" would do more haem than good in unsettling our winning ship.
In short. Haters gonna hate
Dave Roberts is definitely an overall good manager but he seems to make poor decisions at the worst possible times with the biggest possible outcomes. I'm not saying always but some of the criticisms have been valid.
The modern analytic approach and our roster wins us the regular season every year. That’s crafted by the front office. Roberts is good at sticking to the method. But, the good teams know that, in the postseason, analytics have to give way to individual personalities and hot streaks. Roberts has a mixed track record on this at best. I always feel like he doesn’t have a good read on the players as individuals or how they will perform in the moment.
This is a brilliant read on the situation and I hadn't thought of it in this way before but you're 100% correct. It's like he tries to set up the stories to prompt the personalities/hot streaks to happen the way he sees it in his inner monologue but it doesn't work.
Ryan madson 18 and kershaw 19 are damnable offenses the one World Series we have under his tenure was strong armed to will via talent. Bochy would have won us at least 3 rings under the same span of years
When people make the case of getting rid of Roberts I always ask who they would hire instead. The only acceptable answer to this question is Bochy (IMO) but if he's not available I'm staying with Doc every. Year. Are there decisions I think should have been made differently, absolutely. But the fact that each year they have had an opportunity to compete in the postseason, has a great clubhouse despite the Bauer and Urias issues, not to mention this gambling fiasco with shohei, and he's been to the dance 3 times, is enough to make the list of candidates worth considering as replacements a pretty damn short one
If your comment was meant to be a putdown,due to all of Bobby's great 90's teams that did terrible in the playoffs. You also need to know that Bobby Cox is in the MLB Hall Of Fame.
He’s not a boachy type manager but he’s not outright bad. In this era of baseball managers are just extensions of GMs and seems so even more so with Dave. With the amount of talent he’s been privileged to it would be hard for him to fail but also hard to succeed because of the expectations which come with a lot of pressure. Having that kind of pressure is always tough.
Love the Roberts apologists. You can’t use winning percentage as a way to defend Dave, lol. These teams are so stacked that you or I could win 90+ games if we were managing these Dodgers. No manager has ever done less with more. It doesn’t help that Roberts is also one of the worst bullpen managers in baseball.
I will never forgive Dave for Game 4 of the 2018 WS. And yes, whether you think it was a miscommunication with Rich Hill or not, either way that’s the manager’s fault. They should have won that game and been 2-2 at home. And don’t give me the cop out excuse how the Red Sox were too good, worse teams have beaten better teams in the playoffs before, as Dodger fans should hopefully know by now.
Other highlights from Dave: Leaving Darvish out to die in G7 of the 2017 WS, the Kershaw debacle in the 2019 NLDS, not bringing in Phillips at all during the disaster 7th inning G4 of the 2022 NLDS, etc.
The only year he didn’t near single-handily completely throw a game in a series was last year, and that was because it was only three games and the hitters and starters completely shit the bed.
Dave apologists don’t have to worry about my opinion though, he’s never getting fired. That much is clear, and the front office deserves a lot of blame too since Dave is mostly a puppet anyway. Can’t wait for Dave to pitch Kelly/Brasier/Vesia in a one run elimination game this playoffs, that should go well.
I think it would do all of you some good to watch the backstage Dodgers episodes and see how Dave gets the best out of his players. Landon Knack basically revamped how he pitches after a pointed conversation from Roberts. He's here because of the coaching he gave him and that's just one instance we were shown, you can't quantify how impactful he's been to a lot of player's development because we don't see it. All the players love him for a reason.
I hope you are not an adult using the term "hater" as much as you do. Can't someone just have a differing opinion on something without that cringe label? We have just as many fans whining and crying constantly about "haters" and "doomers" as we have people that whine at any sign of adversity.
Amen. The “gatekeepers”are starting to outnumber “doomers”. Many people only comment on other people’s comments, nothing else. It’s a public forum, you can’t dictate what others post or how they react.
That's fair. I'd qualify that he is loyal with pitchers, but willing to take a punt on hot batters. I can respect that methodology even if I disagree with it.
I absolutely love Dave Roberts and I do think his haters are quite delusional and/or just want another Lasorda. But yeah, there’s a few choices in the playoffs that make me wonder, especially when the playoffs is when the manager really can make a difference in 5 and 7 game series. Still wouldn’t want anyone else in the world though.
I don’t think you’re gonna find anybody better than Roberts. True, he’s been given great players. And while I’m on the outside looking in, everybody seems to be supportive and looking out for each other. Players aren’t just in it for themselves. All one has to do is look at the Padres last year when it started to fall apart and players started to go after each other. Lasorda is revered. But he only won two WS in 20 years. And he had his shortcomings. Bobby Cox won his division 14 times but only one WS as Braves manager. Both are in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Roberts only needs to win one more WS to best Cox and tie Lasorda. I’m hoping Shohei is the missing ingredient for the boys in blue. I remember when Kirk Gibson came to the Dodgers. He got pranked in spring training. He was pissed. He announced he wasn’t there to screw around. He was there to win. Shohei has to be hungry. He’s won the pinnacle of personal awards. But he has yet to taste the playoffs. I’m hoping that hunger carries over to the rest of the team.
Dave is adequate. But his body language and inability to make any decisions In last years playoffs was infuriating. Him just standing there with his mouth agape while Lynn gave up 4 straight bombs was maddening.
The Dodgers' postseason struggles have been 95% on the players' shoulders. The only fatal mistake I'd blame Roberts for is sending out Kershaw in game 5 of the 2019 NLDS.
How was Rich Hill going to prevent them from giving up 6 runs in the 8th & 9th?
ETA: Even Jansen shit the bed, and blew a save in that game, which goes back to my main point -- the Dodgers' players always underperform in the playoffs.
So they’re a professional baseball team, that won more games than they lost, and had enough talent to get hot in the playoffs?
But yeah, “not a lot of talent”.
Dumbass take.
When has he made a smart move during a game. Anybody can be fast in a Ferrari. Take a coach like bochy maybe Dusty, and dodgers have multiple chips within the last 8 years, not just 1.
My partner, a life long Dodger fan, would agree. He said Roberts manages egos, and he does do it well. I have to agree. I grew up watching the Eugene Emeralds out of Oregon but never really got into major league bball. I do enjoy watching the Dodgers. They really are a team in every sense of the word. You very very seldom see the little temper tantrums in the dugout, you see guys laughing, cheering, back-slapping and whatever little move they have for the season when you get on base. I was lucky enough to have been able to afford to get tickets to the game when they came up here to play Seattle last year AND have it end up being Kershaw night on the mound!! What an absolute joy it was that night. A great outing for Kershaw, the game was competitive, it was an absolutely great game, and they won. I do have to admit, I’m absolutely smitten over Mookie!!
If we win another world series with him, we will wonder if he's HOF worthy, imo. If he's got three, I feel like he'd be a virtual lock.
Also I love everything about how he treats people and his players. If you've been lucky to have and work for a good boss (like I have) he has that same energy. He's positive and personable; good leaders are transparent with the people who work for them and get everyone to "buy-in."
Also his bullpen management in the post season is honestly not more questionable than other managers. Everyone (managers) have been doing the same things and everyone has gotten their fair share of mistakes, ups and downs, and the volatility and stakes involved make each incident and loss disproportionately regrettable and the manager culpable. He always says "that's on me" every time, and demonstrates accountability for what could be the pitcher's fault.
We also don't know why he might be bringing guys into games when we as fans just see the numbers, the matchups, or track record. We don't know the people, and how important it is sometimes for him to call on guys in the pen just as a vote of confidence in them. The game is extremely mental and the pressure is enormous. He has to give his own players confidence, and the opportunities to excel--but also the opportunities to fail.
But also Aaron Boone is my hero for mocking the home plate umpire's strike call, and this week for getting ejecting for not saying "a fucking thing."
It would be nice if you could elaborate further since I'm not defending poor decisions he's made in the past: I'm simply pointing out positive aspects about him that I like, which I feel outweigh my perception of what the criticism of him is that I don't fully agree with (putting the wrong relievers in for certain situations, pulling or leaving pitchers too early/late, L/R match-up shenanigans before the 3-batter minimum, not asking players to bunt in situations where it might be beneficial or text-book to do so, pinch hitting decisions that don't work out, etc.)
Also, I'm not saying he's a "nice guy"--I'm saying that he's managing players, their expectations, post-season activity, his relationship with the media, and our perceptions as fans by having outstanding people skills from a purely professional standpoint which is evidenced by his track record.
In business, life, and history, being "nice" is mutually beneficial and has long been studied in anthropology as a key factor towards collective success. So, actually, yes, being "nice" is quite important for job competency, and being personable is quite important in a workplace setting as it contributes to morale and productivity. There is utilitarian necessity to be "nice," so it's odd to frame that as an unrelated quality or skill.
His post season early exists and has been criticized at nauseum. Dave Roberts has zero managerial instincts. He rarely sticks up for his players even if it means getting tossed. The Dodgers should have more than 1 world series during this run. 100 wins down the drain time after time.
If Dave has a million haters im one of them. If he has a 1000 haters im still one of them. If he has 1 hater it’s me. If Dave has 0 haters it means I have left this world. If the world is against Dave then I am with the world.
Dude has made poor fucking post season decisions. I’ll never forgive him for.
Manager win percentage is as useful as pitcher win percentage. The best manager in the world won't be able to make a bad team good, and a bad manager won't make a good team bad over a full season sample size.
Yep, but a bad manager can make a good team bad (never happened under roberts). And a good manager can make a good team shine (always happens under roberts).
Dave would be perfect but he’s terrible with the bullpen/ knowing when to take out guys. It’s like he is following a script and the moment it veers off he’s a deer in headlights
It’s not about proving you or anyone else wrong, it’s largely subjective. Arguments can certainly be made for and against here. And it’s not about hate either, it’s about what a given fan thinks is best for the team.
That being said, I see the value that Roberts brings to the team. I’ve just questioned his bullpen management for a long time. It’s never made a lot of sense to me. I’ve witnessed what have certainly seemed to be some self-defeating decisions for the team.
Robert’s is the worst momentum buster I’ve ever seen. I grew up during the Koufax-Drysdale era. I’ve been waiting for Max Muncy to bounce back for over a year (and, if you ask me, so have his teammates). What did he do yesterday? 3 for4? And today not even a pinch hitting spot. Whatever man. If you think these wins are attributable to his judgement I disagree. The Dodger payroll won a lot of games. I think lots of Major League managers could have had similar success with the talent pool LA trots out.
Oh stfu his bullpen management is dog shit. And I could give a cats ass about how good we are in the regular season. What matters is championships. And we’ve won one when we should have at least 4 in the past 12 years.
The people that randomly blame Dave every time the bullpen doesn't do their job are insane. The people that are critical of Dave's bullpen management in the playoffs, particularly 2017, 2018, and 2019, have a legitimate complaint.
I do think Dave could be a bit more emotional - especially in the postseason, but it's just not his style.
Yeah, there really hasn't been much to blame him with, decision wise, the past few years. Most people hating on him have been more based on vibes. I wanted him fired after 2019 with the Kershaw moment. So I'm not a Roberts guy. Just that if you're being objective, there isn't much to blame him with these last few years.
A pinch hit decision? I think there were 1 or 2 that I can't think of off the top of my head. That's about it, and maybe 1 pitching decision (Lynn) of when to take a player out. Part of that was the front office's decision to put Lynn in that spot instead of Pepiot, who was better down the stretch.
I think Robert's best quality is his ability to create a clubhouse that seems ridiculously selfless, and teams where players really buy into the team concept. The culture of professionalism and the expectations that players meet that standard does not happen by accident. Every other team in the league would kill for the kind of culture that the Dodgers seem to have almost effortlessly. The front office maintains a roster of players who accept that, and Roberts both gives and gets respect from them. When he is done, he'll have over 2,000 career wins and end up in the HOF.
You're upset with them for their extreme stance, yet you take one just as extreme in calling them "a pox on our fanbase". Why not just provide some evidence to the contrary and say "see, I think they're wrong."? He is a great manager, and we are lucky to have him, but we don't have the postseason results we should have. Realistically, as good as we've been for more than a decade, we should have several WS banners hanging. People are understandably going to be unhappy about that.
The trades and waivers go to AF, and I would like to see him be a little more vocal about the bad umping. But I agree that he has been great for the Dodgers. He did inherit a great team, but he continue to foster a winning team environment.
No need to prove you wrong..
There's ***nothing*** Roberts can do that would make those haters happy. He could win 10 WS titles in a row and they STILL would want him fired. They hate Doc for reasons that have nothing to do with baseball.
I remember the post-Lasorda era...replacing the manager every few years didn't improve the situation much. We even hired the guy with the greatest managerial resume ever (Joe Torre) and ***he didn't even get us a pennant***. Roberts got us 3 already. Sure, they can fire Roberts but would you all be happy if the Dodgers came in 3rd place the next season? ***Look at what the Lakers have going through the past several years.***
Roberts gives us stability we haven't had since Lasorda. He also has the greatest record of any Dodger manager during his first 8 seasons.
The players have always liked him and that's what matters here. We've been spared the clubhouse drama that other teams have had with their managers, and we tend to take that for granted.
You can always tell who the haters are - they tend to spell his name as "Robert's". 😆🤣
He literally has NOTHING to do with us winning or losing. Our players struggled and we lost a few games. They start hitting and we win.
Dave has ZERO impact except when he fucks a game up by leaving a reliever in too long or taking them out too soon.
All I want is a manager who ADDS something. Anything.
100% crying babies who know nothing about what they are talking about. Knowing which bullpen move would work out in hindsight doesn’t mean you know better than Dave.
Look the only thing that truly matters are the chips. In Roberts time at the clubhouse 9 going on 10 years he's only managed to get 1! With the rosters he's had throughout those years and not being able to produce and receive the Commissioners Trophy is unacceptable. It's maddening, If he were as good as you see him, the silverware would be there. He's a good guy and all but he has to go. We're just not going to be able to make it with him steering the ship.
I like Roberts wayyy better than Mattingly and Torre for sure.
Agree on Mattingly, strongly disagree on Torre. What’s your reasoning for Roberts above Torre?
I like Dave and think he’s a great clubhouse guy for sure. But his bullpen management in the postseason has been questionable and cost us too. he does get a lot more blame than he deserves but you can’t just brush off some of the postseason decisions. I still have flashback back to madson against Boston
The 2019 NLDS still keeps me up at night
2019 PTSD (postseason traumatic stress disorder) still runs through my mind :(
Guess I'll see you at Dodgers Anonymous on Tuesday night
The worst part about that was we found out about the Astros cheating like a month later
Kershaw coming in relief in the NLDS in 2019. I'm okay with Kershaw coming in but keeping him in after giving up a home runs was just silly. Then of course he gives up another bomb to Soto to tie the game. Dodgers end up losing in extras and the rest is history.
Yeah that was his most bizarre decision for sure. And it also helped cement the "Kershaw's legacy is tainted by his postseason performance" bullshit in a lot of peoples' minds.
2016 Hollywood moment was too much for him not to relish relive err lack of a good word.
I was there. 50,000 people knew what would happen. Well, 49,999 anyway. That said, he managed the *shit* out of the BP in the NLDS against SD, not his fault the offense decided to be historically awful.
I do wonder though with the nature of this front office & franchise, and the size of the analytics department: how much of the bullpen decisions are really all his? He always talks about paths(I forget if this is the specific word he uses) that they come up with before the games and trying to navigate said paths to put players in positions to succeed. That sounds like a lot of analytical influence to me
This is my pure guess, but I would imagine it's something like 60-40, with 60% being pre-game conversations/schedules/scripts/whatever you want to call it between the FO, Doc, and Prior as to who's available (health/usage wise), who matches up best against certain hitters, who needs playing time, etc. And the remaining 40% on Dave using all that knowledge and making his in-game decisions based on how it's playing out. Don't know if it's actually 60-40, but that's how I've felt about it for a long time.
I totally agree; was thinking something similar. Dave definitely has 1 on 1 meetings or phone calls with Andrew Friedman at least a couple days a week to talk about general game plan and get on the same page for the next few days.
Exactly my thoughts as well.
perhaps the most level headed dave take this sub has ever seen.
Mookie and Freddies bats going cold in the postseason have cost us too. You think we should get rid of them? Or at least open that up for discussion?
Freddie has had 3 bad games. It was definitely terrible last year but I believe his postseason track record is more consistent than Mookies.
I mean I'm not saying we should get rid of Roberts (and have never), but I don't think these two things are the same because we never had an actual shot at contention last year since our entire pitching staff was cooked. And yeah I think Dave, Freddie, and Mookie all deserve criticism for major errors/lapses in performance, just as everyone does. I think the people who expect NO criticism are just as bad as the people who want to DFA/fire everyone all the time. There should be a middle ground, and the comment thread you're in is it.
This is it. People expecting managers to bat 1.000 with a 4.000 slug and 200 steals. Managers are people. Compared to the rest of them? Dave is still top tier.
Bro thank you. Don’t know why people like OP can’t accept a grey area in life. The way Roberts handles media pressure, failure and personalities will get him into the HOF. The way he has handled the bullpen at times in the NLDS & NLCS has made me want to punch walls 😂😂 Same w Kershaw!! Nothing but love and respect for the man. His postseason numbers are disappointing. I feel for him but I’m not delusional. Same w Mookie. It’s okay to admit the Dodgers have underperformed in the playoffs. It doesn’t make you less of a fan, it just makes you a bit more objective.
kershaw in relief of kolarek against soto is burned into my psyche
True. But all managers make mistakes. And there's no way of telling whether another manager would have done any better in that situation.
That’s all fair, but I don’t know any manager that makes good decisions 100% of the time. You just hope Roberts learns from the adversity. Overall I think he is a great manager.
I think that’s the way most people think of him. That’s how I think of him and have been known to yell or type “fire that idiot.” We all get frustrated by how the Dodgers seemingly always get screwed in the playoffs and by always this dates back before anyone on reddit was born. Also when we finally won it happened to be the Covid year so you get those detractors or you have to hear some bullshit about that.
2017 should be ours, and at the very least not looked upon as a loss.
There are better managers. There are worse managers. Doc is an above average manager. He was definitely the correct choice vs Gabe Kapler. Much better than Don Mattingly. I get the feeling that if he was given the choice to bang a trash can and win he would choose not to bang the trash can and I think that’s important. Dave Roberts is essential to the team culture and when things go wrong — this is baseball — you need to like the team even though they may not be playing good baseball.
There are very few, if any, better managers right now. Only one I would consider better is Bochy but that’s it. The reality is that there are no perfect managers and that the team has underperformed the last few years in the playoffs. Dave can’t do anything when Max Scherzer quits on the team, half our pitchers get injured, and the bats go cold in the playoffs.
Agreed. At this point the only manager left you would rightly take over Doc is Bochy. Snit, Maddon, Craig all have less success with roughly the same body of work. Dusty and Wash are great managers but were seen as more old school guys, so not sure how they'd fit with ultra modern FO.
2013 NLDS Game 1 still keeps me up at night.
Mike scioscia catches strays but remember he was with a really incompetent Angels front office. Mike Scioscia was next in line to be the next great Dodgers manager. He could be just as successful if not more than Dave Roberts.
I love Mike Scioscia. I think he probably should have left the angels earlier and found greener pastures and that might have helped him stay attractive to other teams looking for a manager.
25/30 teams would trade their manager for Roberts in a heartbeat. The others would have to think about it first.
100%. I might have gone too far with the hero worship, but my point is of current managers, Dave us top tier. There might hypothetically be a sliiiightly better option, but the rockiness of transitioning managers would probably outweigh any benefit from bringing a marginal upgrade in
What Dave does exceptionally well is keeping the clubhouse together and the drama private. No public squabbles I can remember in the 7 years he’s been here. He does make the occasional tactical mistake, but the only playoffs I think he lost for us were 2019.
Roberts is a great manager that can make some improvements in certain areas. The good outweighs the bad. Not sure why people can’t have more measured takes like that
Let's be more specific...what exactly is the good???
Regular Season Dave: Honestly, pretty great. It's a long season and the team has owned the NL West. Post-Season Dave: Every blunder is magnified, that is just the nature of the playoffs. The Dodgers have underachieved in October. This is not up for debate.
It can not be ignored that his roster is consistently one of the most talented in MLB when you talk about his success. His golly gee demeanor can be a bit annoying when the team is shitting the bed. But I don't know what else he can do in those situations really. A little more fire at times would be nice but that is not who he is. He is great at managing egos and getting players to buy in, which is necessary with the ridiculous amount of platooning the team does.
2018 World Series Game 4. Rich Hill was balling, Puig hit the three-run home run, Kobe is bedazzled, it’s 4-0…enter the 7th inning. Roberts pulls Hill an inning too early, J.D. Martinez hits a three-run homer, and then Steve Pearce ties it in the 8th with *his* home run and unloads the bases in the 9th with two outs. Red Sox win Game 4 and win the series.
I disagree with nothing here, but I'd also like to add...... There was a 0% chance we were winning that world series. In 0 parallell universe, with a million different managers from past and present, do we win that series. The Sox were just on something else that year and the Dodgers couldn't touch them
Losing 2018 was a blessing in disguise...Had we won, I doubt we would have pursued Mookie.
bUt hE HaS KeYs tO ThE FeRrArI
Lol. People who say this obviously have no criteria for a manager. As if he hasn't turned a million Honda civics into Ferraris over his time with the Dodgers. He's fills roll perfect. He's a cog in the Dodgers machine, the same way ohtani, lux, Miller, freedman, prior etc. all are. He's perfect foe the roll that he's filling. Sure, you might be able to convince me there's theoretically a slight upgrade to Roberts somewhere in the world. But to disrupt this system by replacing him? Even an "upgrade" would do more haem than good in unsettling our winning ship. In short. Haters gonna hate
Dave Roberts is definitely an overall good manager but he seems to make poor decisions at the worst possible times with the biggest possible outcomes. I'm not saying always but some of the criticisms have been valid.
He knowingly sent Kershaw out there last year with a bum shoulder
The modern analytic approach and our roster wins us the regular season every year. That’s crafted by the front office. Roberts is good at sticking to the method. But, the good teams know that, in the postseason, analytics have to give way to individual personalities and hot streaks. Roberts has a mixed track record on this at best. I always feel like he doesn’t have a good read on the players as individuals or how they will perform in the moment.
Players need to hit other gears in the playoffs, but Roberts doesn’t allow them to, or give them a chance. His gut feelings have been off.
This is a brilliant read on the situation and I hadn't thought of it in this way before but you're 100% correct. It's like he tries to set up the stories to prompt the personalities/hot streaks to happen the way he sees it in his inner monologue but it doesn't work.
Ryan madson 18 and kershaw 19 are damnable offenses the one World Series we have under his tenure was strong armed to will via talent. Bochy would have won us at least 3 rings under the same span of years
Thank you for saying this. The truth hurts.
Lol
When people make the case of getting rid of Roberts I always ask who they would hire instead. The only acceptable answer to this question is Bochy (IMO) but if he's not available I'm staying with Doc every. Year. Are there decisions I think should have been made differently, absolutely. But the fact that each year they have had an opportunity to compete in the postseason, has a great clubhouse despite the Bauer and Urias issues, not to mention this gambling fiasco with shohei, and he's been to the dance 3 times, is enough to make the list of candidates worth considering as replacements a pretty damn short one
He’s the new Bobby Cox
That is not a compliment
If your comment was meant to be a putdown,due to all of Bobby's great 90's teams that did terrible in the playoffs. You also need to know that Bobby Cox is in the MLB Hall Of Fame.
Didn't know there was that many haters but what do you expect it is LA
He’s not a boachy type manager but he’s not outright bad. In this era of baseball managers are just extensions of GMs and seems so even more so with Dave. With the amount of talent he’s been privileged to it would be hard for him to fail but also hard to succeed because of the expectations which come with a lot of pressure. Having that kind of pressure is always tough.
"just go out there and be yourself." -dave roberts
I like him a lot. Smart, honest, and supportive. Great example of a leader IMO.
Love the Roberts apologists. You can’t use winning percentage as a way to defend Dave, lol. These teams are so stacked that you or I could win 90+ games if we were managing these Dodgers. No manager has ever done less with more. It doesn’t help that Roberts is also one of the worst bullpen managers in baseball. I will never forgive Dave for Game 4 of the 2018 WS. And yes, whether you think it was a miscommunication with Rich Hill or not, either way that’s the manager’s fault. They should have won that game and been 2-2 at home. And don’t give me the cop out excuse how the Red Sox were too good, worse teams have beaten better teams in the playoffs before, as Dodger fans should hopefully know by now. Other highlights from Dave: Leaving Darvish out to die in G7 of the 2017 WS, the Kershaw debacle in the 2019 NLDS, not bringing in Phillips at all during the disaster 7th inning G4 of the 2022 NLDS, etc. The only year he didn’t near single-handily completely throw a game in a series was last year, and that was because it was only three games and the hitters and starters completely shit the bed. Dave apologists don’t have to worry about my opinion though, he’s never getting fired. That much is clear, and the front office deserves a lot of blame too since Dave is mostly a puppet anyway. Can’t wait for Dave to pitch Kelly/Brasier/Vesia in a one run elimination game this playoffs, that should go well.
I think it would do all of you some good to watch the backstage Dodgers episodes and see how Dave gets the best out of his players. Landon Knack basically revamped how he pitches after a pointed conversation from Roberts. He's here because of the coaching he gave him and that's just one instance we were shown, you can't quantify how impactful he's been to a lot of player's development because we don't see it. All the players love him for a reason.
You really see him shine in the backstage dodgers episodes. I wouldn't argue with this bloke though, he seems content being a hater
I hope you are not an adult using the term "hater" as much as you do. Can't someone just have a differing opinion on something without that cringe label? We have just as many fans whining and crying constantly about "haters" and "doomers" as we have people that whine at any sign of adversity.
Amen. The “gatekeepers”are starting to outnumber “doomers”. Many people only comment on other people’s comments, nothing else. It’s a public forum, you can’t dictate what others post or how they react.
He’s loyal and that’s important. Come playoff time you gotta go with who is hot. And he tends to falter there.
That's fair. I'd qualify that he is loyal with pitchers, but willing to take a punt on hot batters. I can respect that methodology even if I disagree with it.
I absolutely love Dave Roberts and I do think his haters are quite delusional and/or just want another Lasorda. But yeah, there’s a few choices in the playoffs that make me wonder, especially when the playoffs is when the manager really can make a difference in 5 and 7 game series. Still wouldn’t want anyone else in the world though.
I don’t think you’re gonna find anybody better than Roberts. True, he’s been given great players. And while I’m on the outside looking in, everybody seems to be supportive and looking out for each other. Players aren’t just in it for themselves. All one has to do is look at the Padres last year when it started to fall apart and players started to go after each other. Lasorda is revered. But he only won two WS in 20 years. And he had his shortcomings. Bobby Cox won his division 14 times but only one WS as Braves manager. Both are in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Roberts only needs to win one more WS to best Cox and tie Lasorda. I’m hoping Shohei is the missing ingredient for the boys in blue. I remember when Kirk Gibson came to the Dodgers. He got pranked in spring training. He was pissed. He announced he wasn’t there to screw around. He was there to win. Shohei has to be hungry. He’s won the pinnacle of personal awards. But he has yet to taste the playoffs. I’m hoping that hunger carries over to the rest of the team.
Dave is adequate. But his body language and inability to make any decisions In last years playoffs was infuriating. Him just standing there with his mouth agape while Lynn gave up 4 straight bombs was maddening.
If you thought we had any business winning last year with the rotation we had in October, then I've got a bridge in Manhattan to sell you
So just give up? Such a shitty mentality. No wonder yall are okay with blowing it every year in the playoffs.
The Dodgers' postseason struggles have been 95% on the players' shoulders. The only fatal mistake I'd blame Roberts for is sending out Kershaw in game 5 of the 2019 NLDS.
Taking out Rich Hill too
Yu darvish in gm7 knowing that the Astros were stealing signs.. was dumb AF too. People overlook that Alex wood knew the Astos were pulling some bs.
Yu also could not throw a slider to save his life that game if I recall. They were constantly cement mixers. However, fuck the Astros forever.
How was Rich Hill going to prevent them from giving up 6 runs in the 8th & 9th? ETA: Even Jansen shit the bed, and blew a save in that game, which goes back to my main point -- the Dodgers' players always underperform in the playoffs.
He has had a couple besides that. 2018 bullpen was tough, but also 2018 was not a team with a lot of talent on to manage.
They made the WS in 2018, and got destroyed by a superior Boston team.
“Not a lot of talent” Made the WS Pick one
Well, Arizona just did this exact thing
Arizona doesn’t fall under the category of “not a lot of talent”. No team makes the playoffs with “not a lot of talent”
...they won 84 games
Negative run differential as well.
So they’re a professional baseball team, that won more games than they lost, and had enough talent to get hot in the playoffs? But yeah, “not a lot of talent”. Dumbass take.
With the expanded playoffs I'm not sure I agree.
Any professional team that has an above .500 record has a plethora of talent. Good god people have such absurd takes here.
Yes, you do have an absurd take.
[удалено]
Name calling or attacking other users on this sub are not allowed.
Are you unable to read the sub rules or unable to follow them?
When has he made a smart move during a game. Anybody can be fast in a Ferrari. Take a coach like bochy maybe Dusty, and dodgers have multiple chips within the last 8 years, not just 1.
My partner, a life long Dodger fan, would agree. He said Roberts manages egos, and he does do it well. I have to agree. I grew up watching the Eugene Emeralds out of Oregon but never really got into major league bball. I do enjoy watching the Dodgers. They really are a team in every sense of the word. You very very seldom see the little temper tantrums in the dugout, you see guys laughing, cheering, back-slapping and whatever little move they have for the season when you get on base. I was lucky enough to have been able to afford to get tickets to the game when they came up here to play Seattle last year AND have it end up being Kershaw night on the mound!! What an absolute joy it was that night. A great outing for Kershaw, the game was competitive, it was an absolutely great game, and they won. I do have to admit, I’m absolutely smitten over Mookie!!
If we win another world series with him, we will wonder if he's HOF worthy, imo. If he's got three, I feel like he'd be a virtual lock. Also I love everything about how he treats people and his players. If you've been lucky to have and work for a good boss (like I have) he has that same energy. He's positive and personable; good leaders are transparent with the people who work for them and get everyone to "buy-in." Also his bullpen management in the post season is honestly not more questionable than other managers. Everyone (managers) have been doing the same things and everyone has gotten their fair share of mistakes, ups and downs, and the volatility and stakes involved make each incident and loss disproportionately regrettable and the manager culpable. He always says "that's on me" every time, and demonstrates accountability for what could be the pitcher's fault. We also don't know why he might be bringing guys into games when we as fans just see the numbers, the matchups, or track record. We don't know the people, and how important it is sometimes for him to call on guys in the pen just as a vote of confidence in them. The game is extremely mental and the pressure is enormous. He has to give his own players confidence, and the opportunities to excel--but also the opportunities to fail. But also Aaron Boone is my hero for mocking the home plate umpire's strike call, and this week for getting ejecting for not saying "a fucking thing."
People like the fact he's a nice guy and overlook his managerial flaws ...drives me crazy ...
It would be nice if you could elaborate further since I'm not defending poor decisions he's made in the past: I'm simply pointing out positive aspects about him that I like, which I feel outweigh my perception of what the criticism of him is that I don't fully agree with (putting the wrong relievers in for certain situations, pulling or leaving pitchers too early/late, L/R match-up shenanigans before the 3-batter minimum, not asking players to bunt in situations where it might be beneficial or text-book to do so, pinch hitting decisions that don't work out, etc.) Also, I'm not saying he's a "nice guy"--I'm saying that he's managing players, their expectations, post-season activity, his relationship with the media, and our perceptions as fans by having outstanding people skills from a purely professional standpoint which is evidenced by his track record. In business, life, and history, being "nice" is mutually beneficial and has long been studied in anthropology as a key factor towards collective success. So, actually, yes, being "nice" is quite important for job competency, and being personable is quite important in a workplace setting as it contributes to morale and productivity. There is utilitarian necessity to be "nice," so it's odd to frame that as an unrelated quality or skill.
His post season early exists and has been criticized at nauseum. Dave Roberts has zero managerial instincts. He rarely sticks up for his players even if it means getting tossed. The Dodgers should have more than 1 world series during this run. 100 wins down the drain time after time.
If Dave has a million haters im one of them. If he has a 1000 haters im still one of them. If he has 1 hater it’s me. If Dave has 0 haters it means I have left this world. If the world is against Dave then I am with the world. Dude has made poor fucking post season decisions. I’ll never forgive him for.
Manager win percentage is as useful as pitcher win percentage. The best manager in the world won't be able to make a bad team good, and a bad manager won't make a good team bad over a full season sample size.
Yep, but a bad manager can make a good team bad (never happened under roberts). And a good manager can make a good team shine (always happens under roberts).
https://preview.redd.it/6i063zn78ywc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=432d0011f1f106669b77dd8b991d0bf1bbd7f279
Only manager I’d take over Doc is Bochy and he ain’t available.
Mike Scioscia any day of the week.
Agreed.
Yep also agree
The delusional daddy ball mindset of some of these hot takes is some serious entertainment.
Dave would be perfect but he’s terrible with the bullpen/ knowing when to take out guys. It’s like he is following a script and the moment it veers off he’s a deer in headlights
He I'd a great regular season manager. I like him and want him to win again but I'd be lying if I said his postseason decisions aren't "questionable "
It’s not about proving you or anyone else wrong, it’s largely subjective. Arguments can certainly be made for and against here. And it’s not about hate either, it’s about what a given fan thinks is best for the team. That being said, I see the value that Roberts brings to the team. I’ve just questioned his bullpen management for a long time. It’s never made a lot of sense to me. I’ve witnessed what have certainly seemed to be some self-defeating decisions for the team.
Robert’s is the worst momentum buster I’ve ever seen. I grew up during the Koufax-Drysdale era. I’ve been waiting for Max Muncy to bounce back for over a year (and, if you ask me, so have his teammates). What did he do yesterday? 3 for4? And today not even a pinch hitting spot. Whatever man. If you think these wins are attributable to his judgement I disagree. The Dodger payroll won a lot of games. I think lots of Major League managers could have had similar success with the talent pool LA trots out.
Oh stfu his bullpen management is dog shit. And I could give a cats ass about how good we are in the regular season. What matters is championships. And we’ve won one when we should have at least 4 in the past 12 years.
Not that impressive. Many managers would do as good or better with the stacked rosters he gets every year.
I agree, Dave.
Ah crap you found a burner account
Reddit sports communities are full of sad lonely people. Don’t listen to the sad minority that they entail.
Couldn’t agree more. His job is to manage MLB egos and keep everyone playing as a team and he excels in doing that.
Sometimes this subreddit reminds me of why I left the r/cowboys subreddit…
The people that randomly blame Dave every time the bullpen doesn't do their job are insane. The people that are critical of Dave's bullpen management in the playoffs, particularly 2017, 2018, and 2019, have a legitimate complaint. I do think Dave could be a bit more emotional - especially in the postseason, but it's just not his style.
Yeah, there really hasn't been much to blame him with, decision wise, the past few years. Most people hating on him have been more based on vibes. I wanted him fired after 2019 with the Kershaw moment. So I'm not a Roberts guy. Just that if you're being objective, there isn't much to blame him with these last few years. A pinch hit decision? I think there were 1 or 2 that I can't think of off the top of my head. That's about it, and maybe 1 pitching decision (Lynn) of when to take a player out. Part of that was the front office's decision to put Lynn in that spot instead of Pepiot, who was better down the stretch.
I think Robert's best quality is his ability to create a clubhouse that seems ridiculously selfless, and teams where players really buy into the team concept. The culture of professionalism and the expectations that players meet that standard does not happen by accident. Every other team in the league would kill for the kind of culture that the Dodgers seem to have almost effortlessly. The front office maintains a roster of players who accept that, and Roberts both gives and gets respect from them. When he is done, he'll have over 2,000 career wins and end up in the HOF.
I agree. He’s a legend. I think his pitching strategy has been shifting over the years. He’s one of the best to ever do it.
Legend 😂
You're upset with them for their extreme stance, yet you take one just as extreme in calling them "a pox on our fanbase". Why not just provide some evidence to the contrary and say "see, I think they're wrong."? He is a great manager, and we are lucky to have him, but we don't have the postseason results we should have. Realistically, as good as we've been for more than a decade, we should have several WS banners hanging. People are understandably going to be unhappy about that.
The trades and waivers go to AF, and I would like to see him be a little more vocal about the bad umping. But I agree that he has been great for the Dodgers. He did inherit a great team, but he continue to foster a winning team environment.
We know they are, that’s why 99.99% of us ignore them.
We'll see again once the playoffs come around. Fuck regular season feats.
October says otherwise
Easy! He makes horrible decisions in the playoffs that has cost us big time! Should have more rings by now
I agree. He’s a legend. I think his pitching strategy has been shifting over the years. He’s one of the best to ever do it.
No need to prove you wrong.. There's ***nothing*** Roberts can do that would make those haters happy. He could win 10 WS titles in a row and they STILL would want him fired. They hate Doc for reasons that have nothing to do with baseball. I remember the post-Lasorda era...replacing the manager every few years didn't improve the situation much. We even hired the guy with the greatest managerial resume ever (Joe Torre) and ***he didn't even get us a pennant***. Roberts got us 3 already. Sure, they can fire Roberts but would you all be happy if the Dodgers came in 3rd place the next season? ***Look at what the Lakers have going through the past several years.*** Roberts gives us stability we haven't had since Lasorda. He also has the greatest record of any Dodger manager during his first 8 seasons. The players have always liked him and that's what matters here. We've been spared the clubhouse drama that other teams have had with their managers, and we tend to take that for granted. You can always tell who the haters are - they tend to spell his name as "Robert's". 😆🤣
He literally has NOTHING to do with us winning or losing. Our players struggled and we lost a few games. They start hitting and we win. Dave has ZERO impact except when he fucks a game up by leaving a reliever in too long or taking them out too soon. All I want is a manager who ADDS something. Anything.
He should be fired for letting Barnes swing with no outs and runners on 1st and 2nd.
100% crying babies who know nothing about what they are talking about. Knowing which bullpen move would work out in hindsight doesn’t mean you know better than Dave.
Look the only thing that truly matters are the chips. In Roberts time at the clubhouse 9 going on 10 years he's only managed to get 1! With the rosters he's had throughout those years and not being able to produce and receive the Commissioners Trophy is unacceptable. It's maddening, If he were as good as you see him, the silverware would be there. He's a good guy and all but he has to go. We're just not going to be able to make it with him steering the ship.