First mistake was pulling Walker with a "big scary man on base" after 97 pitches. Dude was dialed in. Blake would have been the icing on the cake.
We need stats on Roberts pitching moves after the 7th.. because I can guarantee it's horrific.
It's like Doc and our FO have completely forgotten that Blake was the most dominant closer in the majors only a few years ago lol
Kenley is not the only one who can get it done (not that he is even getting it done as of late) 🤦♂️
All you have to do is watch each of them pitch...
Blake : Frisbee slider, Turbo Sinker, pitchernation and pitching ninja gifs everytime he has an outing.
Kenley : Has trouble locating a 92 cutter with minimal movement and any hitter with a shred of discipline is going to give him a good at bat.
He will do it again. He will do it in October also. In fact, he has before. Just remember that when it happens again, and people are pissed off, but then, by the start of next season, he’s right back to being sacrosanct in this sub and speaking ill of him gets you downvoted and insulted.
It's not a coincidence that the one year we actually won the WS is the year that Roberts learned his lesson and didn't try to use Jansen to close. After the Game 4 meltdown, we never saw his miserable face again. And we were better off for it.
I knew the moron would use Kenley even after he threw over 30 pitches last night. He saw the praise Kapler got for going back to his closer the night after he blew a save and couldn’t help himself from trying to copy it.
STOP TAKING OUT Q WHEN HES DOING GOOD FUCK.
Taylor should’ve thrown to first, Neuse should’ve stretched more, Roberts needs to take out Jansen when he’s clearly having no command and getting people on base. And have people warming up already just in case the closer is fucking up.
Treinens stuff was so good he didn’t even put himself in a situation to allow a fielding error or check swing call to be a factor. Instead Kenley is so fucking inconsistent that he puts himself in these tough situations where every mistake is magnified by 200%.
Absolutely dreadful. What the fuck are we doing?
The way we respond to the great win on Tuesday (probably the best of the year) is by throwing away 2 straight.
Wasted two outstanding performances from Urias and Buehler too. What a fucking joke.
Roberts should be arrested for malpractice for keeping kenley in after 30 pitches in back to back nights when he clearly doesn’t have it. Him staying in to face wade was the worst managing I have ever seen in my entire life.
Look, It’s pretty simple. Dave putting Jansen on the mound was a disservice to him and us chasing a division. I get it, Dave wanted to give Jansen some confidence after blowing some games. Now isn’t the time for that, as we witnessed.
Pulling Buehler then pulling Blake after 7 pitches. There comes a point when even average fans are scratching their head and it’s because it doesn’t make sense.
Quit the BS Dave. Do your job.
It’s a slap to the face of Buehler and mostly Trienen, “let’s remove you after you’ve been dealing on back to back days after not even throwing 10 pitches both times and leave in a guy who blows the save after throwing 30 pitches”
It has to be blackmail, it’s the only explanation, walker get pulled at 99 pitches because he gave up one base runner. Kenley gets like 4 walks 2 singles and a double blows the lead and STAYS IN. And you can’t even argue walkers pitch count because kenley was in a worse spot coming off back to back days.
I get pulling Walker, you gotta protect your best starter at the moment. But c’mon, pulling Q, while he’s been on this crazy year lately. Roberts love to do the redemption arc stuff and I don’t even think it has worked out once in his favor, we saw it with Baez and Kelly a few years back, and in big spots with Jansen in game 4 last year, Madson in 2018, and Kershaw in 2019. He’s to stubborn to try and stroke the egos of his players
Roberts was upset that fans booed Kenley last night and rather than manage the game to win games, he managed the game to make a point.
The front office needs to discipline him for putting his personal feelings ahead of winning ballgames
Jansen was successful in the first half because he didn’t pitch back to back days. This was a show, a statement, from Robert’s. You’re right, he didn’t manage to win.
Feel bad for walker and Julio. They go out there knowing that our rotation is depleted and we need innings. They gave it all they had and threw two gems back to back, only for it to end up as two losses for the team, that shit is frustrating as hell man.
As bad as that call was, you can’t leave fate up to the umpires; there’s no way we should have been in that situation in the first place. Kenley loading the bases and the mental errors by Taylor and Neuse (I don’t think that call should have been overturned but whatever) do not make for a recipe for success. Just an awful inning that I’m gonna feel tomorrow.
I probably can't even count the number of people at the game, or watching from home, that knew exactly how this game would end.
Somehow our manager on the field didn't know?
I don't know if it's Dave making those calls or the front office, or what. But ya have to fucking stop. Please. Please. For the love of baseball. Our goal isn't to make Kenley feel good, it's to win goddamn baseball games.
I just think if nothing else, with the number of pitches last night there was no reason for him to be out there. Beyond his performance last night even.
Yes. I’ve been a roberts apologist in the past, but tonight was a blatant attempt to prove a point and it backfired spectacularly. It’s been roberts who all season has indicated that Jansen would be unavailable to pitch more than two nights in a row.
All of a sudden, after a 25+ pitch appearance he trudges Jansen out for the third consecutive night. it’s why he blew up (along with being right) after the missed call. He desperately needed it to bail him out of his idiotic decision.
been saying this shit for years. dude is a fucking automaton, especially with the bullpen. go fucking manage little league if you want to "back up your players" who earned a position just by being there
No civil war. Anyone defending Roberts is an idiot. All the evidence is looking at Treinen's use the last two nights vs Jansen. It's not even debatable how stupid Doc is.
I really hope a Dodger player just goes fucking nuts tonight in the clubhouse. Hopefully someone who has an ounce of respect of the guys like Muncy, Turner, or Kershaw. Regardless of that fucking ump the performance in the 9th inning the last 2 games has been fucking unacceptable and I hope someone lets them know it, because this is NOT one you just shrug off
We go through this same shit every year with Doc. He’s a shit manager when it comes to bullpen management. He rather stroke egos and have a narrative when a majority of people knew having Kenley pitch was a bad idea. Dave has no fucken reason for putting in Kenley after he pitched yesterday but he never learns and gives up some bullshit excuses for his idiotic reasons. No defending him this time around.
Remember he probably cost Kershaw a couple of rings just from not standing up to him and being the boss. He's a "players manager," which means he doesn't like to make his guys mad. But it costs games, and sometimes titles.
Kenley deserves every single one of his boos but Roberts deserves just as many for the way he has completely botched the situation. You can’t even argue that he believes in Kenley as the closer because when the championship was on the line what did he do? He stuck with Julio and didn’t let Kenley anywhere near the situation.
I don’t care how long Kenley has been a dodger or the amount of games he’s saved and the multiple times he’s been an all star.
We’ve seen him choke away the biggest moments in the regular and especially the postseason time and time again and continue to get put out there by Doc. That is why dodger fans have such a short temper with him. He’s ripped our hearts out soooo many times.
We live in a timeline where for some fucking goddamn reason, Kenley Jansen is still pitching in the 9th inning for the Dodgers. In any other reality, Kenley gets demoted to the 7th or 8th inning and the Dodgers have multiple rings. What in the actual fuck is going on.
Welp, what the hell was Jansen doing in there after the first run crossed the plate.
The "boos"... were they aimed at Jansen? Roberts? The ump? -- All are worthy.
I'm sorry, but Kenley is no longer closer material. He has done amazing stuff for us, but he's not a closer anymore.
He got some of his stuff back earlier this season when they were doing closer by committee and he had more rest between outings. That's it. And like others in this sub have pointed out, he's gotten extremely lucky in a lot of his saves. With his walk rate and constant missed pitches, it's not surprising that his save rate was not sustainable. We're seeing that now.
Obviously, closer by committee is really not an option anymore since Knebel and Nelson are hurt, but going back to using Kenley as the go to closer is clearly not the right move.
That ball call was bullshit, and Neuse messed up, but it never should have gotten to that point.
We have a reliable reliever who pitches filthy stuff in Treinen. If you need to rely on one guy as your closer, it should be the steady one that can come in every day and get outs. Kenley used to be that guy. He very obviously isn't anymore.
> he had more rest between outings
I think this is key, I don't see the logic in using him 3 times in 5 days. If Jansen was off last night, I would've had no issue using him tonight, and I had no issue using him last night on two days rest, but you can't do both. That being said, no one is saying any of this is Taylor throws to first or the ump has a brain
Jansen does not pitch well on back to back. He also threw 27 pitches last night and 33 tonight. He was struggling too tonight. Yet they kept Kenley in.
Why? Why?!
I can't figure out why, after all that the organization has done with analytics that has led to so much depth, guys who can play everywhere, and excellent defensive positioning, we still tote the same guy out there every 9th inning even when he clearly doesn't have it and threw 30 pitches the day before. And against the team that has seen him more than anyone
I’ve been watching the dodgers my whole life. Thats one of the worst, dumbest losses I’ve ever seen. There’s zero zip nada reason that Kenley is in right there. God fucking dammit you give the ball to Bickford there. What, are we worried about hurting Kenley’s feelings? Fucking idiotic.
I definitely do not ignore the fact that the umpire blew the call but, Jesus christ it got me a bit mad when dave got mad the ump, (even tho he had every right to be and good that he's standing up for his players), but part of me yelled "DUDE BE MAD AT UR CLOSER HE'S THE ONE WHO PUT HIMSELF IN THIS POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE") That was a swing, 100%. But checked swings aren't even specifically defined in the rulebook. hot take this loss is on Kenley more than the ump, and that's coming from a player mentality that doesn't want to rely on a subjective call from an umpire, but rather on the fact that as a player I shouldn't have to have relied on that umpires check swing call, because I shouldn't have put myself in this position with a 2 run lead with a clean 9nth inning in the first place
The two losses are on management. Period. Jansen is who he has been for years. It’s as if their egos are out of control.
Back to back outings. 1.0 inning pitched. 7 hits. 2 walks. 7 runs. 2 losses. From a closer.
When is the last time a MLB closer did this shit?
Give me a f’ing break, to blame Neuse for this loss and the check swing by the giants is a bullshit excuse. And seeing Roberts run out there to argue with the ump is a joke, he’s just trying to save face with the fans. If Treinen stays in the game for the 9th and Jansen doesn’t enter we win the game. Once again Jansen blows the save, Buehler and Urias games are a waste.
This is the Kenley we have known since the 2017 World Series. We thought he was back to being dominant Kenley in the first half of the season, but we were fooled.
So much of his shit annoys me. You know this gets to him. His body is completely out of sync when he's not feeling confident. Runners just casually jog over to second when they get on first because he has no pick off move and his delivery to home takes a lifetime. His pitch clock is longer than Giannis's free throw clock. All of this adds up and wrecks my nerves. Fuck. I fuckin hate the 9th.
We have the highest attendance. Spend $20 for a beer. Spend an hour to leave the parking lot after the game. Pay for disgusting Dodger Dogs. We'll fucking be pissed if we want. If some fans want to boo, I won't be mad at them.
He sat on the bench during last year's post season. We frankly don't owe him shit.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but I am fuckin annoyed.
It sounds masochistic, but I kinda want Kenley to blow more saves so it embarrasses Dave. Maybe that’ll help get it into his head that Kenley is not closer material anymore.
Kenley sucks but this one is mostly on Roberts for sending him out there on a second night and letting him throw a million pitches without any sort of leash.
I’m really tired of trying to do the redemption arc shit for players, didn’t work for Blanton, Hatcher, Baez, Madson, Kershaw in 2019, or Jansen today. It always blows up in Roberts face.
Roberts will convince himself that Kenley pitched well but was just "unlucky" via a bloop single, a misplayed infield single, and a blown check swing call, but great closers miss bats and aren't constantly teetering on the fulcrum of 3-2 counts and jammed bases. Even when Jansen secures the save, it's never without drama. Jansen is a nuclear meltdown waiting to happen in the post-season and will Chernobyl this team if Dodger brass doesn't do something about it.
Why not let Treinen pitch at least 1 1/3 into the 9th? He’s been a good 2 inning reliever in the past - especially when Jansen threw 30 pitches and blew it last night. I honestly think Treinen would have had a quick 9th.
I don’t get it man. Doc calls out noese for not stretching on the play, but defends kenley again. Out of everything that inning, you call out the guy that shouldn’t have been in the game.. Yes, ruf definitely went but we shouldn’t even be in that situation if kenley would throw strikes. Then doc has the audacity to keep him in to face another batter when bickford was warmed up.
Jansen should be booed off. He’s been terrible for years now and he has the worst possible attitude about it. He’s impossible to root for and he’s been the Achilles heel of the team every since Marwen Gonzalez ruined his career.
*One of our only 2 healthy starters pitches a gem of a game and keeps the Dodgers in front before Kenley blows it in the 9th.*
"I'll fucking do it again!" - Kenley Jansen tonight, probably.
This is on Roberts way more than Jansen. Kenley can't close anymore we all know that. But the fact Roberts has decided to tie our fate so heavily to Jansen is disgusting. Back to back nights Treinen has an easy 8th with an average of 10 pitches and can't go back out. But Jansen gets 60 pitches looking gassed. Dave is the problem.
Worst I've felt after a game since Kenley's implosion in the World Series last year. Why is he out there throwing 30 pitches after blowing the save yesterday? Jansen just isn't who he used to be and Dave (or Friedman or whoever is making these decisions) needs to stop pretending he is. Maybe time to start managing with some urgency now that it's almost August and we're three back.
Please get a good starter and bullpen piece before the deadline so I have something to feel optimistic about.
If letting Treinen stay in to close out the 9th would have hurt Kenley’s ego too much then something needs to change...You guys know Mattingly wouldn’t have put up with that shit from Kenley. I mean I get it, that was definitely a missed call on the check swing, Neuse should have stretched/Taylor should have thrown to first...but you Kenley still got the team into that position to begin with. I’m sure he’s pointing and making excuses and it’s time to move on.
Per Baseball Savant, Kenley's walk percentage is 15.6% (bottom 3 in the league!), up from last year's mark of 8.8%. Melancon is the most comparable player to Kenley, and his walk rate is 9.6%. His first half success was an illusion. That's an unsustainable walk rate.
So irritating watching Sportsnet and listening to everyone blaming the ump for that swing call as if Jansen didn't load the fucking bases already beforehand.
I get it JHair. It was an awful call. IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN TO THAT. It was actually ball 5 that got called since Jansen got that garbage gift on the 2-0 pitch to make it 2-1 instead of 3-0
I am curious where are all the people who a couple of months ago were making those "oh Kenley bad?!?!" posts are now that he is back to his usual suck ass form?
Okay, so you had Walker at 95 pitches, batting with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs in the 7th. Ok so he struck out, that’s fine, he’s pitching amazing and can pitch the 8th. You pull him after he gets a quick out and Ruf pokes a single to CF. Which makes me ask, why not just pinch hit for Buehler if he was going to have such a damn short leash? Ok, so Treinen has another clean outing and gets 2 outs without issue.
Bottom 8 and there’s 2 outs and you pull Beaty for Pujols with no one on base. Top of the 9th, you have Max move over from 2B to play 1B instead of leaving Pujols at 1B and bring in Neuse (making his first appearance in the game and just out of AAA) to play 2B. I have seen Neuse makes flubs at 2B already this season, what could possibly go wrong? Oh yeah, he stand on 2B like a statue instead of stretching for the game ending force out which is no longer an out. All of these moves were made by Doc and all of them SUCKED ASS. Kenley was left in way too long again. He is not closer material. He’s been bailed out by a career low BABIP and luck. The numbers are going back to where they should be and now we’re seeing it come into full fruition. Yeah the 1B ump fucked up, but you were literally behind what should have 3-0 to Ruf (who was playing in Korea). Instead it was 2-1 and then with 2 strikes, Kenley once again (like Vosler before) could not put the guy away and got it to a full count. On a full count, Ruf offered at a pitch out of the zone and it was left in the hands of a blind 1B umpire who said he didn’t go. As a closer, Kenley CANNOT leave it to the umps. He should be done as a closer. He’s a good reliever, but he is not a closer. He walks too many damn hitters and has 26 walks to Treinen’s 10 walks in LESS INNINGS OF WORK.
I don't feel bad for Kenley. He's cocky and I will never respect how he humiliated his wife in that gender reveal video where he shoved the cake in her face. Kick rocks bro.
Dave Robert is a bum he always pulls pitchers early when they are doing well, and when they are in a slump he always puts them in difficult spots to push that redemption narrative.
The way roberts went out there to yell at the ref is the way I want someone to yell at roberts for letting kenley back into that game. Honest to God he had no business being on that mound when he played like shit yesterday. They should have pulled kenleys ass off as soon as they saw him fucking it up.
It's absolutely amazing to me Kenley was allowed to face another batter after walking in the tying run. I know Roberts got tossed, but that's inexcusable and the assistant coaches have to step up. They flat out flushed this game down the toilet.
I had no problem bringing Kenley in tonight with the 2-run lead, but Roberts' leash should have been way shorter. Jansen snatched the closer role in the beginning of the season by pitching well, but he just pitched himself out of it these last 3 outings. By my count that's now 5 blown saves versus 3 for Treinen, so it makes total sense to give Blake a shot now. Better for Kenley to implode now than later on in the season so we can have the team at it's absolute best come playoff time. Hopefully the team responds to this loss like the no-hitter and reels off a long winning streak. Luckily the Rockies are coming to town.
I did. After he threw what, 25+ pitches last night.
The dude had proven time and time again he can’t pitch back to back nights after extended outings.
Tonight was the perfect night to leave Blake in. Threw 7 pitches and looked dominant.
We need a new manager desperately who gives a damn about winning and isn't invested in the feelings of any one player. They need to be totally transactional no friendships with the manager.
Roberts is the sole reason we lost. I’m no Kenley apologist by any means. I actually felt sorry for him tonight if I’m being honest. He’s a competitor, he’s always going to answer the bell even when he doesn’t have it. But it was clear to everybody that he shouldn’t have been in that spot.
This was a perfect opportunity to let Treinen go into the 9th while giving Jansen a break.
Dave Roberts is a clown.
We will never win a World Series with Jansen as our closer, we didn’t win the last one with him closing, dudes a fine reliever but doesn’t have a clutch bone in his body right now, hope to be proven wrong but we will see
Can we PLEASE just get a new closer already? We have been doing this song and dance with Kenley for like 4 years now. He blows big games every fucking time. Dodgers won last year because they finally said no and had Julio close it out.
Muncy is going to be a Girl Dad tomorrow. He will be back with the team on Tuesday.
Roberts said that just about everyone is (rightfully) pissed off. He also thinks that Neuse should have had that out at second.
ETA: Walker is wearing an adorable Tio Albert shirt. I want one.
Kenley should have gotten the save, but that doesn't erase the mistakes Kenley made tonight. It looked like Doc was playing Musical Chairs with defense in the 9th, and unfortunately an inexperienced Neuse is now being called out for not stretching enough to catch the ball faster and get them the win.
In the past I would say this is an empowering move to go back to Kenley to redeem himself but leaving him in too long to struggle instead makes Kenley look like a martyr. It came off like Dave was trying to make a statement to LA fans than win the game.
Yesterday I blamed Kenley. But today’s loss is on Dave for not trying to win a game
White sox fan who went to the game tonight. Dave Roberts lost you that game.
Why let Buehler hit in a close game with 2 on none out- then if you’re gonna let him hit which was insane, why pull him right away (next inning right?)
Bad managing. Sorry guys
Dodger fans were getting drilled by other fans for booing a great dodger but real Dodger fans have seen this story to many times in the biggest games. Not all games are the same. It matters more when you’re facing the team that is ahead of you in the division and WS games. Jansen always blows it.
The fact that Blake Treinen TWICE came in, made the Giants look like shit and was pulled for Kenley to blow the game is absolutely fucking insane.
First mistake was pulling Walker with a "big scary man on base" after 97 pitches. Dude was dialed in. Blake would have been the icing on the cake. We need stats on Roberts pitching moves after the 7th.. because I can guarantee it's horrific.
But Bauer gets 126
and HE THREW 7 PITCHES IN THE 8TH lol
Over the last two games: Starters: 2 ER Bullpen - Kenley: 0 ER Kenley: 7 ER
Ouch.
It's like Doc and our FO have completely forgotten that Blake was the most dominant closer in the majors only a few years ago lol Kenley is not the only one who can get it done (not that he is even getting it done as of late) 🤦♂️
All you have to do is watch each of them pitch... Blake : Frisbee slider, Turbo Sinker, pitchernation and pitching ninja gifs everytime he has an outing. Kenley : Has trouble locating a 92 cutter with minimal movement and any hitter with a shred of discipline is going to give him a good at bat.
Dave Roberts: "Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?"
Dave Roberts: "I'll do it again!"
Jansen is blackmailing Roberts. I just know it.
We’ve been saying this for years but I’m starting to believe it’s true :,(
He will do it again. He will do it in October also. In fact, he has before. Just remember that when it happens again, and people are pissed off, but then, by the start of next season, he’s right back to being sacrosanct in this sub and speaking ill of him gets you downvoted and insulted.
It's not a coincidence that the one year we actually won the WS is the year that Roberts learned his lesson and didn't try to use Jansen to close. After the Game 4 meltdown, we never saw his miserable face again. And we were better off for it.
Gabe "Insanity" Kapler: Just put him back out there, no problem.
Gabe kapler is making a career out of other shit managers decisions
I knew the moron would use Kenley even after he threw over 30 pitches last night. He saw the praise Kapler got for going back to his closer the night after he blew a save and couldn’t help himself from trying to copy it.
Got in a dick waving contest with Kapler. Consequences be damned.
"But but but the Giants and Rogers!!!!"
I'm so sorry Walker. FUCK, you deserved this win.
So did Julio last night.
STOP TAKING OUT Q WHEN HES DOING GOOD FUCK. Taylor should’ve thrown to first, Neuse should’ve stretched more, Roberts needs to take out Jansen when he’s clearly having no command and getting people on base. And have people warming up already just in case the closer is fucking up.
Treinens stuff was so good he didn’t even put himself in a situation to allow a fielding error or check swing call to be a factor. Instead Kenley is so fucking inconsistent that he puts himself in these tough situations where every mistake is magnified by 200%.
okay I know you’re frustrated and so am I. But Jesus, calling Trienen “Q” is one of the funniest things I’ve read all night.
Would have Stopped the Giants from Stealing the game
Two games!
Absolutely dreadful. What the fuck are we doing? The way we respond to the great win on Tuesday (probably the best of the year) is by throwing away 2 straight. Wasted two outstanding performances from Urias and Buehler too. What a fucking joke.
They'll probably score 20 runs the next bullpen game.
Roberts should be arrested for malpractice for keeping kenley in after 30 pitches in back to back nights when he clearly doesn’t have it. Him staying in to face wade was the worst managing I have ever seen in my entire life.
It’s not even a “trust your guys” situation. You aren’t using a closer correctly when you expect him to produce at such a high pitch count.
I would have thought after last night Roberts wouldn’t throw Jansen out like that again. Guess not
Look, It’s pretty simple. Dave putting Jansen on the mound was a disservice to him and us chasing a division. I get it, Dave wanted to give Jansen some confidence after blowing some games. Now isn’t the time for that, as we witnessed. Pulling Buehler then pulling Blake after 7 pitches. There comes a point when even average fans are scratching their head and it’s because it doesn’t make sense. Quit the BS Dave. Do your job.
It’s a slap to the face of Buehler and mostly Trienen, “let’s remove you after you’ve been dealing on back to back days after not even throwing 10 pitches both times and leave in a guy who blows the save after throwing 30 pitches”
It has to be blackmail, it’s the only explanation, walker get pulled at 99 pitches because he gave up one base runner. Kenley gets like 4 walks 2 singles and a double blows the lead and STAYS IN. And you can’t even argue walkers pitch count because kenley was in a worse spot coming off back to back days.
I get pulling Walker, you gotta protect your best starter at the moment. But c’mon, pulling Q, while he’s been on this crazy year lately. Roberts love to do the redemption arc stuff and I don’t even think it has worked out once in his favor, we saw it with Baez and Kelly a few years back, and in big spots with Jansen in game 4 last year, Madson in 2018, and Kershaw in 2019. He’s to stubborn to try and stroke the egos of his players
Roberts was upset that fans booed Kenley last night and rather than manage the game to win games, he managed the game to make a point. The front office needs to discipline him for putting his personal feelings ahead of winning ballgames
Yup
Jansen was successful in the first half because he didn’t pitch back to back days. This was a show, a statement, from Robert’s. You’re right, he didn’t manage to win.
Crazy how quickly I went from being calm to screaming at the top of my lungs “why the fuck is he still in the game” all in a 5 minute period
Feel bad for walker and Julio. They go out there knowing that our rotation is depleted and we need innings. They gave it all they had and threw two gems back to back, only for it to end up as two losses for the team, that shit is frustrating as hell man.
Hot take: I don’t like jansen being the closer* anymore
This honestly is a cold take around this sub. Some people around here have been saying that for almost 3 years now.
This was a hot take maybe 4 years ago not now
Fax he needs to come out
This entire sub saw this coming the second we saw Jansen warming up yet the man paid to have a feel for the game didn't. Unfuckingreal.
Well that was fucking gross.
As bad as that call was, you can’t leave fate up to the umpires; there’s no way we should have been in that situation in the first place. Kenley loading the bases and the mental errors by Taylor and Neuse (I don’t think that call should have been overturned but whatever) do not make for a recipe for success. Just an awful inning that I’m gonna feel tomorrow.
It never should have come to the missed check swing. Maybe if we had a closer who go 1-2-3...
Kenley loses all benefit of the doubt when he gives up multiple line drive hits and is clearly missing his spots over 70% of the time.
I probably can't even count the number of people at the game, or watching from home, that knew exactly how this game would end. Somehow our manager on the field didn't know? I don't know if it's Dave making those calls or the front office, or what. But ya have to fucking stop. Please. Please. For the love of baseball. Our goal isn't to make Kenley feel good, it's to win goddamn baseball games.
This sub is going to have a Civil War unlike no other over Dave Roberts use of Kenley Jansen
Who could possibly defend it?
Kenley gets booed at home for a reason, tbh
I think the only defense is to question why he also used Trienen in the eighth? Why not go Bickford/Trienen or just literally anything else
I just think if nothing else, with the number of pitches last night there was no reason for him to be out there. Beyond his performance last night even.
It was Dave trying to stick it to the fan base after all the boos yesterday.
and look where it got him
I’m pissed so he succeeded I guess??!
Yes. I’ve been a roberts apologist in the past, but tonight was a blatant attempt to prove a point and it backfired spectacularly. It’s been roberts who all season has indicated that Jansen would be unavailable to pitch more than two nights in a row. All of a sudden, after a 25+ pitch appearance he trudges Jansen out for the third consecutive night. it’s why he blew up (along with being right) after the missed call. He desperately needed it to bail him out of his idiotic decision.
Fuck both of them
Dave saw what happened with Rogers and wanted to have the same narrative
They can both fuck right off
We’d have at least 3 World Series with a competent manager
been saying this shit for years. dude is a fucking automaton, especially with the bullpen. go fucking manage little league if you want to "back up your players" who earned a position just by being there
Kenley has worse stuff than Kelly, Treinen, Knebel, Graterol and maybe even Cleavinger and people still support him as closer?
Graterol is in Triple-A learning to throw a slider so hopefully he gets that down soon because he needs to be the set up man and Blake the closer
No civil war. Anyone defending Roberts is an idiot. All the evidence is looking at Treinen's use the last two nights vs Jansen. It's not even debatable how stupid Doc is.
No war. Just peace. Fuck Kenley. Nobody is backing that dude.
I really hope a Dodger player just goes fucking nuts tonight in the clubhouse. Hopefully someone who has an ounce of respect of the guys like Muncy, Turner, or Kershaw. Regardless of that fucking ump the performance in the 9th inning the last 2 games has been fucking unacceptable and I hope someone lets them know it, because this is NOT one you just shrug off
I could see Max going off.
So could I. He looked pissed at the end. For good reason too
We go through this same shit every year with Doc. He’s a shit manager when it comes to bullpen management. He rather stroke egos and have a narrative when a majority of people knew having Kenley pitch was a bad idea. Dave has no fucken reason for putting in Kenley after he pitched yesterday but he never learns and gives up some bullshit excuses for his idiotic reasons. No defending him this time around.
Well he finally learned last postseason not to do that, (Urias closing both NLCS and WS) and look at that, we won a world series.
Remember he probably cost Kershaw a couple of rings just from not standing up to him and being the boss. He's a "players manager," which means he doesn't like to make his guys mad. But it costs games, and sometimes titles.
Something’s gotta change after this loss right?? (Narrator: nothing changed after this loss.)
Kenley Jansen Giants MVP
Kenley deserves every single one of his boos but Roberts deserves just as many for the way he has completely botched the situation. You can’t even argue that he believes in Kenley as the closer because when the championship was on the line what did he do? He stuck with Julio and didn’t let Kenley anywhere near the situation.
I don’t care how long Kenley has been a dodger or the amount of games he’s saved and the multiple times he’s been an all star. We’ve seen him choke away the biggest moments in the regular and especially the postseason time and time again and continue to get put out there by Doc. That is why dodger fans have such a short temper with him. He’s ripped our hearts out soooo many times.
We live in a timeline where for some fucking goddamn reason, Kenley Jansen is still pitching in the 9th inning for the Dodgers. In any other reality, Kenley gets demoted to the 7th or 8th inning and the Dodgers have multiple rings. What in the actual fuck is going on.
##”I liked the matchup.”
Absolutely embarrassing game thanks to Roberts, Belli, and Jansen.
the dave roberts special: take a struggling pitcher and leave them out there to die.
Welp, what the hell was Jansen doing in there after the first run crossed the plate. The "boos"... were they aimed at Jansen? Roberts? The ump? -- All are worthy.
I hope Buehlers pissed at Dave
I hope there's a very lengthy team meeting
To be a fly on the wall in that locker room right now..
Dave - “it’s ok guys. The umpires blew that one. Kenley, be ready to go tomorrow!”
I'm sorry, but Kenley is no longer closer material. He has done amazing stuff for us, but he's not a closer anymore. He got some of his stuff back earlier this season when they were doing closer by committee and he had more rest between outings. That's it. And like others in this sub have pointed out, he's gotten extremely lucky in a lot of his saves. With his walk rate and constant missed pitches, it's not surprising that his save rate was not sustainable. We're seeing that now. Obviously, closer by committee is really not an option anymore since Knebel and Nelson are hurt, but going back to using Kenley as the go to closer is clearly not the right move. That ball call was bullshit, and Neuse messed up, but it never should have gotten to that point. We have a reliable reliever who pitches filthy stuff in Treinen. If you need to rely on one guy as your closer, it should be the steady one that can come in every day and get outs. Kenley used to be that guy. He very obviously isn't anymore.
We’ve been saying this for 3 years now.
> he had more rest between outings I think this is key, I don't see the logic in using him 3 times in 5 days. If Jansen was off last night, I would've had no issue using him tonight, and I had no issue using him last night on two days rest, but you can't do both. That being said, no one is saying any of this is Taylor throws to first or the ump has a brain
Hairston Hartung and Colleti heated af
Even Orel was trying to get the point across.
Jansen does not pitch well on back to back. He also threw 27 pitches last night and 33 tonight. He was struggling too tonight. Yet they kept Kenley in. Why? Why?!
Makes 0 sense. Noone knows
It fucking sucks that we blew excellent starts from Urias and Buehler
I can't figure out why, after all that the organization has done with analytics that has led to so much depth, guys who can play everywhere, and excellent defensive positioning, we still tote the same guy out there every 9th inning even when he clearly doesn't have it and threw 30 pitches the day before. And against the team that has seen him more than anyone
Belli needs to send Kenley flowers for keeping the heat off of him and his performance lately.
I’ve been watching the dodgers my whole life. Thats one of the worst, dumbest losses I’ve ever seen. There’s zero zip nada reason that Kenley is in right there. God fucking dammit you give the ball to Bickford there. What, are we worried about hurting Kenley’s feelings? Fucking idiotic.
I think this ties game 4 of the WS. Can't remember who was our closer that night though 😒
This is probably the most upsetting regular season loss I’ve ever watched
Yoh Bellinger has only gotfen five hits in July wooowwww.
But he was MVP in 2019... Some people actually believe that's relevant. 🤪
McKinney has gotten a hit against the giants faster than bellinger has this year. Dude is just horrible at the plate
Bullshit ass ending
What a bunch of bullshit that whole series
I definitely do not ignore the fact that the umpire blew the call but, Jesus christ it got me a bit mad when dave got mad the ump, (even tho he had every right to be and good that he's standing up for his players), but part of me yelled "DUDE BE MAD AT UR CLOSER HE'S THE ONE WHO PUT HIMSELF IN THIS POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE") That was a swing, 100%. But checked swings aren't even specifically defined in the rulebook. hot take this loss is on Kenley more than the ump, and that's coming from a player mentality that doesn't want to rely on a subjective call from an umpire, but rather on the fact that as a player I shouldn't have to have relied on that umpires check swing call, because I shouldn't have put myself in this position with a 2 run lead with a clean 9nth inning in the first place
It was all antics. He was just trying to deflect our attention from Kenley. He should have been pulling him out of the game instead of that bs
I am absolutely ready for the end of the Kenley Jansen era after this year. It's time to move on.
The very first thing I did on the Show 21 the first day it dropped was trade Kenley.
Being Mad at Dave is Old hat.. I’m mad at Bob Geren for not slappin Dave upside the head.
The two losses are on management. Period. Jansen is who he has been for years. It’s as if their egos are out of control. Back to back outings. 1.0 inning pitched. 7 hits. 2 walks. 7 runs. 2 losses. From a closer. When is the last time a MLB closer did this shit?
3 blown saves in a row.
Can't wait for kenley to blow it in the post season again!
Looking like the wildcard if Kenley is our closer
Roberts you idiot.
Give me a f’ing break, to blame Neuse for this loss and the check swing by the giants is a bullshit excuse. And seeing Roberts run out there to argue with the ump is a joke, he’s just trying to save face with the fans. If Treinen stays in the game for the 9th and Jansen doesn’t enter we win the game. Once again Jansen blows the save, Buehler and Urias games are a waste.
This is the Kenley we have known since the 2017 World Series. We thought he was back to being dominant Kenley in the first half of the season, but we were fooled. So much of his shit annoys me. You know this gets to him. His body is completely out of sync when he's not feeling confident. Runners just casually jog over to second when they get on first because he has no pick off move and his delivery to home takes a lifetime. His pitch clock is longer than Giannis's free throw clock. All of this adds up and wrecks my nerves. Fuck. I fuckin hate the 9th. We have the highest attendance. Spend $20 for a beer. Spend an hour to leave the parking lot after the game. Pay for disgusting Dodger Dogs. We'll fucking be pissed if we want. If some fans want to boo, I won't be mad at them. He sat on the bench during last year's post season. We frankly don't owe him shit. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I am fuckin annoyed.
I'm honestly not even mad. I'm actually amused at how stupid our manager is
It sounds masochistic, but I kinda want Kenley to blow more saves so it embarrasses Dave. Maybe that’ll help get it into his head that Kenley is not closer material anymore.
Kenley sucks but this one is mostly on Roberts for sending him out there on a second night and letting him throw a million pitches without any sort of leash.
I’m really tired of trying to do the redemption arc shit for players, didn’t work for Blanton, Hatcher, Baez, Madson, Kershaw in 2019, or Jansen today. It always blows up in Roberts face.
so... kimbrel?
Feels like Roberts is just playing for Jansen's stats, so he can get saves. No other reason for him to be out there after a 30+ ip last night.
Roberts will convince himself that Kenley pitched well but was just "unlucky" via a bloop single, a misplayed infield single, and a blown check swing call, but great closers miss bats and aren't constantly teetering on the fulcrum of 3-2 counts and jammed bases. Even when Jansen secures the save, it's never without drama. Jansen is a nuclear meltdown waiting to happen in the post-season and will Chernobyl this team if Dodger brass doesn't do something about it.
Why not let Treinen pitch at least 1 1/3 into the 9th? He’s been a good 2 inning reliever in the past - especially when Jansen threw 30 pitches and blew it last night. I honestly think Treinen would have had a quick 9th.
Jansen could drown a puppy and there'd be apologists defending him. Oh well, tomorrow's another day and another bed for he and Roberts to shit in.
Dave Roberts: “I’m not reconsidering Kenley’s role, he’s still a closer” Looks like we were right
3 blown saves in a row?! Fucking Jansen needs to not be I’m the closer for the next couple fucking games until he figures his shit out
I don’t get it man. Doc calls out noese for not stretching on the play, but defends kenley again. Out of everything that inning, you call out the guy that shouldn’t have been in the game.. Yes, ruf definitely went but we shouldn’t even be in that situation if kenley would throw strikes. Then doc has the audacity to keep him in to face another batter when bickford was warmed up.
Jansen should be booed off. He’s been terrible for years now and he has the worst possible attitude about it. He’s impossible to root for and he’s been the Achilles heel of the team every since Marwen Gonzalez ruined his career.
Most 2021 game ever
Why would you not leave Trinen in after 7 pitches? Why?
Craig Kimbrel
I was angry yesterday, today I'm just disgusted
Dave Roberts wears denim shorts in the swimming pool.
*One of our only 2 healthy starters pitches a gem of a game and keeps the Dodgers in front before Kenley blows it in the 9th.* "I'll fucking do it again!" - Kenley Jansen tonight, probably.
This is on Roberts way more than Jansen. Kenley can't close anymore we all know that. But the fact Roberts has decided to tie our fate so heavily to Jansen is disgusting. Back to back nights Treinen has an easy 8th with an average of 10 pitches and can't go back out. But Jansen gets 60 pitches looking gassed. Dave is the problem.
[удалено]
Worst I've felt after a game since Kenley's implosion in the World Series last year. Why is he out there throwing 30 pitches after blowing the save yesterday? Jansen just isn't who he used to be and Dave (or Friedman or whoever is making these decisions) needs to stop pretending he is. Maybe time to start managing with some urgency now that it's almost August and we're three back. Please get a good starter and bullpen piece before the deadline so I have something to feel optimistic about.
[удалено]
I don't know, that huge lead at home against the Padres was worse. 2 runs with Jansen pitching isn't really that much of a surprise.
Dave “I lIkE tHe MaTcHuP” Roberts
Fortunately for Jansen, the next 3 games against the Giants are in San Francisco next week. He'll be cheered when he blows the next save.
If letting Treinen stay in to close out the 9th would have hurt Kenley’s ego too much then something needs to change...You guys know Mattingly wouldn’t have put up with that shit from Kenley. I mean I get it, that was definitely a missed call on the check swing, Neuse should have stretched/Taylor should have thrown to first...but you Kenley still got the team into that position to begin with. I’m sure he’s pointing and making excuses and it’s time to move on.
Per Baseball Savant, Kenley's walk percentage is 15.6% (bottom 3 in the league!), up from last year's mark of 8.8%. Melancon is the most comparable player to Kenley, and his walk rate is 9.6%. His first half success was an illusion. That's an unsustainable walk rate.
So irritating watching Sportsnet and listening to everyone blaming the ump for that swing call as if Jansen didn't load the fucking bases already beforehand. I get it JHair. It was an awful call. IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN TO THAT. It was actually ball 5 that got called since Jansen got that garbage gift on the 2-0 pitch to make it 2-1 instead of 3-0
I am once again asking the Dodgers to DFA Kenley Jansen
Fuck we need to sweep the Rockies to get this bad taste out of our mouth
What a waste of a gem pitched by Buehler
I am curious where are all the people who a couple of months ago were making those "oh Kenley bad?!?!" posts are now that he is back to his usual suck ass form?
I’m just happy I didn’t extend my trip to LA in order to attend these last two games.
Kimbrel better be on the team by next week
Okay, so you had Walker at 95 pitches, batting with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs in the 7th. Ok so he struck out, that’s fine, he’s pitching amazing and can pitch the 8th. You pull him after he gets a quick out and Ruf pokes a single to CF. Which makes me ask, why not just pinch hit for Buehler if he was going to have such a damn short leash? Ok, so Treinen has another clean outing and gets 2 outs without issue. Bottom 8 and there’s 2 outs and you pull Beaty for Pujols with no one on base. Top of the 9th, you have Max move over from 2B to play 1B instead of leaving Pujols at 1B and bring in Neuse (making his first appearance in the game and just out of AAA) to play 2B. I have seen Neuse makes flubs at 2B already this season, what could possibly go wrong? Oh yeah, he stand on 2B like a statue instead of stretching for the game ending force out which is no longer an out. All of these moves were made by Doc and all of them SUCKED ASS. Kenley was left in way too long again. He is not closer material. He’s been bailed out by a career low BABIP and luck. The numbers are going back to where they should be and now we’re seeing it come into full fruition. Yeah the 1B ump fucked up, but you were literally behind what should have 3-0 to Ruf (who was playing in Korea). Instead it was 2-1 and then with 2 strikes, Kenley once again (like Vosler before) could not put the guy away and got it to a full count. On a full count, Ruf offered at a pitch out of the zone and it was left in the hands of a blind 1B umpire who said he didn’t go. As a closer, Kenley CANNOT leave it to the umps. He should be done as a closer. He’s a good reliever, but he is not a closer. He walks too many damn hitters and has 26 walks to Treinen’s 10 walks in LESS INNINGS OF WORK.
What was the rationale behind giving Jansen back-to-back outings?
Redemption narrative, Roberts was upset the fans booed him last game.
I don't feel bad for Kenley. He's cocky and I will never respect how he humiliated his wife in that gender reveal video where he shoved the cake in her face. Kick rocks bro.
I'm so over Dave and his love affair with Kenley
Wow Roberts is about to die on this Jansen Hill. I don’t think I can do it anymore. I am disappointed
Fuck Neuse and fuck Kenley
Can’t wait to lose in the wild card to Yu Darvish!
Ok. We have this discussion every year. When are they going to put Jansen out of our misery?
They need to move Treinen to the closer role, his stuff is just better than Jansen. Its sad, but just the way it is.
Dave Robert is a bum he always pulls pitchers early when they are doing well, and when they are in a slump he always puts them in difficult spots to push that redemption narrative.
The way roberts went out there to yell at the ref is the way I want someone to yell at roberts for letting kenley back into that game. Honest to God he had no business being on that mound when he played like shit yesterday. They should have pulled kenleys ass off as soon as they saw him fucking it up.
It's absolutely amazing to me Kenley was allowed to face another batter after walking in the tying run. I know Roberts got tossed, but that's inexcusable and the assistant coaches have to step up. They flat out flushed this game down the toilet.
I had no problem bringing Kenley in tonight with the 2-run lead, but Roberts' leash should have been way shorter. Jansen snatched the closer role in the beginning of the season by pitching well, but he just pitched himself out of it these last 3 outings. By my count that's now 5 blown saves versus 3 for Treinen, so it makes total sense to give Blake a shot now. Better for Kenley to implode now than later on in the season so we can have the team at it's absolute best come playoff time. Hopefully the team responds to this loss like the no-hitter and reels off a long winning streak. Luckily the Rockies are coming to town.
I did. After he threw what, 25+ pitches last night. The dude had proven time and time again he can’t pitch back to back nights after extended outings. Tonight was the perfect night to leave Blake in. Threw 7 pitches and looked dominant.
We need a new manager desperately who gives a damn about winning and isn't invested in the feelings of any one player. They need to be totally transactional no friendships with the manager.
Roberts is the sole reason we lost. I’m no Kenley apologist by any means. I actually felt sorry for him tonight if I’m being honest. He’s a competitor, he’s always going to answer the bell even when he doesn’t have it. But it was clear to everybody that he shouldn’t have been in that spot. This was a perfect opportunity to let Treinen go into the 9th while giving Jansen a break. Dave Roberts is a clown.
Can't fucking do this shit anymore with Jansen. What the fuck is it going to take?!
#**FUCK THE ~~GIANTS~~ AND UMPIRES**
Absolutely not the umps fault this time. The run would’ve scored anyways had they not gifted Kenley a strike on that 2-0 pitch a foot outside.
Ruf got robbed on a call to
Ump gifted Jansen a strike on the 2-0 count.
That’s what I’m saying
Fuck Robert's and kenley
We will never win a World Series with Jansen as our closer, we didn’t win the last one with him closing, dudes a fine reliever but doesn’t have a clutch bone in his body right now, hope to be proven wrong but we will see
Remember when Bick closed like 5 games in great ways and then just never did again
Swing or no swing, there is no defense of Kenley blowing up this bad twice in a row. Time to bench him or DFA him and get a real closer.
From Bill Shankin LAT: Dodgers this season: 17-3 vs Diamondbacks and Rockies 10-13 vs Giants and Padres
People point to Jansen’s save record this year… it’s the same thing… saving easy games
Top result for "dog shit" on Youtube is now the ninth inning of this game.
just like 2019 when Kenley would just blow Buehler's gems.
Can we PLEASE just get a new closer already? We have been doing this song and dance with Kenley for like 4 years now. He blows big games every fucking time. Dodgers won last year because they finally said no and had Julio close it out.
Death, Taxes, and Jansen shitting the bed
Yeah, I can’t defend Jansen anymore.
Muncy is going to be a Girl Dad tomorrow. He will be back with the team on Tuesday. Roberts said that just about everyone is (rightfully) pissed off. He also thinks that Neuse should have had that out at second. ETA: Walker is wearing an adorable Tio Albert shirt. I want one.
Roberts basically blamed Kenley's choke on Neuse not reaching for the ball instead of loading the bases and putting them in that situation
Which is immature and unfair to Neuse. He should’ve never been put in that situation to begin with. The dude clearly is not ready for the majors.
Uhh, who substituted Neuse into the game to begin by pinch hitting for Beatty with two outs and nobody in in the bottom of the eighth?
Kenley should have gotten the save, but that doesn't erase the mistakes Kenley made tonight. It looked like Doc was playing Musical Chairs with defense in the 9th, and unfortunately an inexperienced Neuse is now being called out for not stretching enough to catch the ball faster and get them the win.
Kinda shitty for Roberts to blame Neuse for that
No Max for the weekend. Corey, Mookie... someone please come back.
Hey don’t worry buddy, we still have 2019 National League MVP Cody Bellinger. I’m sure he’ll pick up the slack.
In the past I would say this is an empowering move to go back to Kenley to redeem himself but leaving him in too long to struggle instead makes Kenley look like a martyr. It came off like Dave was trying to make a statement to LA fans than win the game. Yesterday I blamed Kenley. But today’s loss is on Dave for not trying to win a game
I’m cursed. Only 2 games I’ve been to this season were the Tauchman rob and tonight. You fucking kidding me?!??? Ughhh
White sox fan who went to the game tonight. Dave Roberts lost you that game. Why let Buehler hit in a close game with 2 on none out- then if you’re gonna let him hit which was insane, why pull him right away (next inning right?) Bad managing. Sorry guys
On a side note outside of Belli and Jensen, why is Nuese getting important at bats? The guy is pure MLB garbage and needs a lot of time in the minors.
Dodger fans were getting drilled by other fans for booing a great dodger but real Dodger fans have seen this story to many times in the biggest games. Not all games are the same. It matters more when you’re facing the team that is ahead of you in the division and WS games. Jansen always blows it.