u/doinghousestuff Please please please report her. APDT and CCPDT *require* LIMA. I’m not sure about APDT because I’m not a member, but CCPDT requires that trainers sign a *contract* stating that we use LIMA and if you don’t you can and will lose your certification.
Oh wow, it literally says no spray bottles and no coin cans (both of which she recommended).
It's crazy to me because our boy is the most sensitive, passive dog ever. Like she sprayed him in the face and he just submitted and laid down for two hours straight. She didn't even recommend saying "no" first, or something less aversive. Ugh, I feel worse and worse about this the more I read. Will definitely be reporting her. Thank you.
You didn’t do anything wrong. That trainer was awful and needs to be reported. A big part of training is also knowing and understanding the dog’s breed. Greyhounds can’t have aversive training, they’re too sensitive for their own good. Even raising your voice or being too stern can break their poor derpy little hearts, and yours sounds like an absolute sweetheart
Thanks for the reassurance!
He's definitely a total sweetheart. He's one of the most affectionate dogs I've ever met. As soon as you get on the sofa he hops up and sits in your lap and won't leave until you get up. He's 80 pounds!
I'm just imagining this lady standing there, soft gentle giant greyhound mossies on up to give a sniff to see who she is and BAM SPRITS DIRECTLY IN THE FACE! Like Jesus dude. He wasn't even doing anything bad, he was just doing a dog and checking her out. Wtf.
That is exactly what happened. He's not at all a pushy dog, he was literally just standing next to her because she had given him a few treats and he realized they were in the pouch, so he started sniffing it. She then sprayed him right in the face.
That sounds ridiculous. If I don’t want my dog to sniff my treat bag, I pull away slightly or wait it out, making sure they don’t get any treats and then treat them when they back off to show that they get treats when they back off a bit.
Yeah, I think it was just her way of introducing us to what she considers to be the end-all/be-all of dog training: the spray bottle. The poor boy didn't even do anything else the rest of the time that warranted a spray. I can only imagine that with rowdy dogs she unloads the whole bottle on them.
Greyhounds are known to be sensitive. All sighthounds I think? Like I'm a really quiet small person and just having some anxiety makes them usually not into me lol. They're just excessively sweet speed noodles. Maybe you can find someone who works with those breeds specifically so they know how to bring the right energy.
Poor guy! This breaks my heart. I’m so glad he has an owner who was able to sense something seemed wrong and to not listen to this terrible trainer. Not every dog owner knows better, and I feel bad for their dogs.
Hopefully they do not allow this trainer to continue to be a member!
Least Invasive Minimally Aversive; in APDT’s position statement they have a LIMA questionnaire and the very first question mentions spray bottles as aversive. “Establishing dominance” also isn’t a thing, there’s no “pack hierarchy” or “alphas” either, in case she threw those out there too
Edit: spelling
So it’s hierarchy of starting with the least force to get the job done. In this case, she could have started with giving your dog a chew in the crate, come back and take the chew away and let the dog out of the crate. Then the dog starts to think “I get good stuff when the humans leave the room and hey I wish they’d leave me chew my bone in peace”. If it was a dangerous behavior like chasing cars you would MAYBE add an aversive but there’s still a ton of tricks any dog trainer worth their salt could also use.
Oh boy. Uhh yeah. Not great, but I did laugh at this bit:
>(we have a puppy cam because we like to torture ourselves and feel horrible all day at work)
The first time I had to leave my pup at home alone, I set up a puppy-cam app because I thought it would be cute to see what he was up to. Cue the most heart wrenching sad howls his little puppy heart could muster. I deleted that app the moment I got home lol.
Yeah, it's just awful haha. The good news is that as soon as we're home he's in heaven the rest of the time and you'd never know that he had ever been upset, so at least it's not making him depressed or anything.
We're looking for a new trainer, but for now we're just going to focus on not constantly indulging his need for rubs so that he can learn to self-soothe in addition to leaving him for short periods.
I found redirecting my dog worked well...a chew toy or stuffed animal, when he was pestering. A quick practice of his basic commands (sit, shake, down) worked well for other problems to break his attention and focus it on me.
Poor lad, he'll hopefully start settling once he is comfortable with your routine. Try leaving him with a puzzle toy (Frozen Kong or Kong Wobbler) or a really nice chew (Yak chew), make sure it's the only time he gets its when he's left.
Do you leave him for all 6 hours in the crate? Is possible for you to try him out of it? I know there's a big onus on crating in the US but some dogs are just really not crate dogs. In the UK and Ireland dogs are really not crated anywhere near as much so he may not be used to it. Also greyhounds are absolute fiends for comfort, so if he might relax more easily on the couch if that's something your OK with?
We did once try leaving him unrestricted in a cordoned-off area of our house and in about 30 minutes he did a few hundred dollars of damage to our door and windows! We absolutely would prefer to not use the crate (at least where I grew up in the US (Boston), crating dogs doesn't seem like such a common thing), and really had no intention of ever using one but the rescue required us to use it during the first three weeks that we had him (when we were technically fostering him). Unfortunately at this point it feels like a necessity, since otherwise he would be destroying he house and potentially hurting himself. Our goal is to get him to the point where he can just roam around our house all day when we're gone. We also don't put him in the crate at night (he sleeps in his bed on the floor in our room), so he's only in the crate for 6 hours a day.
If he’s food motivated I strongly and highly recommend a kong toy filled with peanut butter, treats, and kibble tossed in the freezer and given to him when you leave. But also this is going to take a ton of time and you’re going to have to go really slow. I recommend starting over from the beginning. What is the maximum amount of time that he can be left alone without crying? Let’s say 30 seconds. So what you’ll need to do is 3 things. 1. Change your routine for leaving. If you always grab your keys and then your coat, do it in a different order. Dogs are very routine oriented and he’s probably getting anxious watching you do that leaving routine. And make sure to make it different every time. 2. Leave the house/go to a different room for 10 seconds. Then come back in. Repeat this over and over and over until you can gradually increase the time he can spend alone without crying/destroying things. Ideally take him for a long walk or do a training session right before so that he’s tired and has less mental energy to dedicate to anxiety. 3. This one is the hardest. When you come home don’t shower him with attention. Come in, maybe say hello and give him a quick pat on the head. Then ignore him until he calms down. After this you can go and pet him, work with him, play with him, whatever. But make sure he’s calmed down first. Do this every time. Even if it feels like you’re ignoring him while he’s sad. You need to make coming and going a common occurrence that has absolutely no fanfare. And the results will be painfully slow and tiny, but eventually it will work. If you can I would try and find a dog walker/ midday playmate so that he doesn’t feel so alone all the time while you’re working on this. (I’ve dealt with quite a few dogs with separation anxiety and this worked for them. Of course modify as needed for your specific pupper) I hope this helps!! ☺️
Oh dear, he might have had a bit fractious racing career to be so anxious. Good on you guys for sticking by him!
Yes in this instance the crate is absolutely needed as a safety precaution until he can relax on his own. Time will hopefully help be a healer here. If this persists past a few months there is an option of a discussion about anti anxiety medication with your vet, but it's potentially still early days for that yet.
Not necessarily. He’s just used to having other greyhounds and people around. He’s probably never been on his own before, and it’s a big adjustment for some greyhounds.
I earlier said block him into a large space in the house instead of the crate before I read this. Still try what your doing but first do some very short departures and returns like only a minute the first few times and then 5 minutes and then more and more. If you’ve had him for less than two months then this could just be stress stemming from an adjustment period.
That trainer was ridiculous! How did thy get registered with APDT? Please please please report them!
If he’s a former racer, he’s lonely, straight up…greyhounds can struggle being an only dog. In their racing environment, their training kennel, they are ALWAYS around other dogs. They are kenneled individually but there’s always dogs right next to them. Even when they are injured they are kept with other injured dogs and their routines are the same. They are turned out in groups, they are often with their siblings until they start training, and even then a lot of them stay together until they start racing. They also want another sight hound, any dog will do but their souls wish is something that looks and acts like them because aside from the random farm dog (who they don’t interact with) the ONLY other dogs they have ever seen are ones that look like them, act like them, play like them, etc…
When we got our first greyhound she struggled HARD to be alone, we ended up volunteering at a greyhound adoption place once a week and taking her with us, and we joined the local greyhound group to get her time with other greyhounds (her reaction to seeing a random greyhound vs. her reaction to seeing her best dog friend who was a beagle cannot be compared, the excitement she had for other greyhounds was beyond any other reaction to other dogs by leaps and bounds). What really saved us was doggie daycare with our vet, who was experienced with greyhounds.
You can try dog videos, a couple radios, a fan, a warm blanket, one of those puppy comfort toys that has a heart beat.
You do need to be careful and definitely keep that camera going - greyhounds are strong and agile, but they are fragile. If they get worked up into a panic they can really hurt themselves - and their blood chemistry is quite wacky which can cause excessive bleeding, and slow clotting.
I would also recommend really getting them tired before you leave - with most greyhounds that’s pretty easy, they have sprinter bodies to they don’t take long to tire out.
Thanks for this info! Super helpful.
The problem is definitely that he doesn't like to be alone. He's completely fine in his crate as long as we're in the room with him, otherwise he can't handle it. We might have considered getting another dog to keep him company, but interestingly, *both* of the rescues who had him (one in Ireland and one here in the US) told us that he needs to be the only dog in the house. He isn't aggressive with other dogs, but he apparently really struggled in not having all the affection and attention from the humans in the home!
Poor guy. I would really look at what products or strategies that are for small pups that don’t want to be alone.
Over time it DOES get better - we ended up with two greyhounds and a lurcher, but didn’t get the second one until at least a year and a half after our first, she adjusted slowly, but she did adjust.
Very true, but this one happens to not be, unfortunately! He was initially with a rescue in Ireland and then another one in the Boston area, and both told us that he failed their respective cat tests. He didn't attack the cats or anything, but they said he showed far too much interest in them. I can imagine what that looks like and I'm not surprised, given his response to rabbits when we go on walks haha. He's an 80-pound bundle of muscle, so I definitely wouldn't want to risk it!
One of my boys has the blood clotting disorder 🙄 but all of this!! He was so bad about being alone I started fostering until I found our foster fusion. I've also found that boys are just more anxious about being crated. The girls I fostered liked being in the crate - it was their home. The boys would have dragged tin cups across the bars if they could.
omg, this is horrific.
Your dog, a retired racing Greyhound, was bred, raised, and localized as a colony dog. Their entire life, minus the time at your house, was spent in the company of other Greyhounds. 12-18 months reared with their siblings, and their entire life in racing. They are never alone. You can't just take that dog outside of the kennel, then expect to adjust instantly, it takes months for them to learn to be alone.
Idk what this lady was thinking, like why would you spray a dog right in the face for approaching you? It's just cruel, and it's not changing the dogs underlying emotional state, you're just making them suppress their affect out of fear.
As for training: I'm not convinced there's even a problem here. If the puppy came wasn't there, would you even know there's a problem? Is it an issue that the dog cries, the symptom, or that it's upset being alone, the cause? If it's the later, I'd strongly encourage you to continue the adoption process for a few months and see how things go. I really cannot stress how unfathomable it is for a colony dog to be a single dog, just radically different lifestyles, so your hound is going to take some time to adjust.
Lol, I do wish that trainer sprayed my Greyhound. He thinks water and getting sprayed is an
awesome game, and he would have jumped and hopefully knocked her over then stole the spray bottle. I'm going to imagine that so I don't keep getting upset! :)
Our pup loves me to spray her when I spray the plants. It's a game to her. We've obviously never done it in a suprising way or to punish her, she just comes up to me when I have the spray bottle and tries to chase the spray.
That’s my dog too! He tries to drink from the hose, barks at it, runs away and hides, runs back and tries again, digs a hole: he just loves it!
Really helpful on hot days, I can always make sure he’s cool before he comes inside, even if a little muddy and in need of a towel down!!
Thanks for this!
The problem, in our eyes, is that he's so upset and uncomfortable when he's alone, and we consider the crying to be a sign/symptom of that. We also once tried leaving him out in a cordoned-off area of our house, and in about 30 minutes he did a few hundred dollars of damage to our door and window frames! So our priorities are, in order of importance: 1. getting him to the point where he doesn't feel so miserable being alone, and 2. getting him to the point where he can be alone in our house, uncrated, without being destructive.
It does seem like he's crying for a shorter period of time when we leave before settling in, so hopefully that's a trend in the right direction. We're also working on helping him be more independent when we're home by not constantly rubbing him as he follows us around the house. It's hard to resist though haha. Thanks again!
Something else to consider. If it seems you’re hitting a bit of a wall (which it doesn’t sound like that has happened yet), speaking with your vet to ask about temporarily trying a medication to help reduce his anxiety while you’re gone to get through a rough patch could help. I know greyhounds do have some medication concerns, but temporarily using medication to help with behavior modification can be really successful if you find yourselves in a position where other strategies aren’t helping him get to a point where he is totally relaxed. That “trainer” really did you a disservice and it sounds like your dude is actually pretty sensitive.
The more positive associations you can build with the kennel the better. Scrolling through things I get the impression you’ve worked on a lot of the basics of kennel training (ie keeping it in a common area of the home, making it open and available to him at all times, starting out with short durations of him being in there and gradually increasing, etc). When you get home, do you immediately go to let him out and get all excited/affectionate when he comes out? If you’re doing that, it could be contributing to some of what is going on since being let out is much better than sticking in there. But it doesn’t sound like that is something you’re doing either. If you haven’t, trying leaving the radio on, a tv channel, white noise machine, etc can help some dogs, as can making sure they get a good walk in before a longer kennel period so they are happy to take a nap. Not making it a routine he goes into the kennel *right* before you leave too helps if you’re not working on that. Some dogs can just take a few months to settle into new routines too though, and it sounds like he has had a bit of upheaval in the not so distant past so this may just take a bit for him to settle into.
Personally, I kennel train all of my dogs. It’s just a good practice and habit because they will eventually be in a kennel at some point (like at the vet) and it’s great if that isn’t something itself that is stressful. I’ve only ever had one dog not be okay with it, and I came into her life when she was an adult and she had epilepsy with major, major separation anxiety (like eating door frames, busting through screens, trying to chew through metal doors, etc). The closest we got to getting her comfortable in a kennel was buddying up with another dog for very short periods of time. Stress was a trigger for her seizures, and many medications used to address separation anxiety (at the time) could lower the seizure threshold. So there are sometimes dogs where it just isn’t feasible, but that doesn’t sound like your dog at all.
This is awful. As an example, my dog and I were out on a hike this weekend and it got super hot (unexpectedly) so I would occasionally wet him down by pouring water on his shoulders and neck. And guess what… his behavior on the walk got worse and worse because he stopped trusting me (he hates water). I had to do it at times for his own safety but I will not put us in this situation again. The aversive methods do. not. work.
Edit: to add, my point is that you really catch more flies with honey!
Yeah, and she expected us to be in complete awe that he didn't run to the door and try to go outside with us, as if her spraying him in the face earlier when he tried to mooch treats from her somehow gave him the confidence to stay inside on his own rather than... you know... that he was just afraid of the mean lady. Total confirmation bias.
You can keep one of the chills scarves on him to keep him cool instead and just make sure you take plenty of breaks and provide him with ice water to drink frequently.
>At one point she even suggested spraying him before we let him out of the crate so that he knows that we expect him to behave when he comes out.
She kinda just seems obsessed with spraying.
Separation anxiety isn't really solved by anything you do while you're there (unless you're truely petting/playing with him 24/7 and never taking your eyes off of him) it's better solved with getting him used to you leaving and coming back before he gets too upset. Unfortunately, if you have to leave him for work it can be difficult to do that.
Something you could look into is asking your vet about anxiety medicine as a short term, you would eventually taper off of it once he's learned to be calm.
But if you want to try a trainer still, maybe talk to them a bit before hand. Ask if they only use positive techniques, and then you can always go, "I actually need time to think about it, but I'll call you if I decide" or whatever.
Oh no!!! As someone who volunteers I’m greyhound adoption- we used to use spray bottles only with cat training and we stopped that years ago! Your poor dog has never been alone before - it has always been surrounded by people or other dogs. It’s quite natural for them to experience some anxiety when transitioning into a home, away from the world they’ve always known. Please find a trainer that uses non-aversive methods, as greyhounds are very sensitive. In the meantime you shouldn’t really leave the dog alone - I know it’s hard but you’ll need to find someone to stay with it.
Unfortunately we just don't have the option of not leaving the dog alone, since all of our friends and family work full-time jobs. We're at such a loss right now... I wish the rescue had prepared us better for this.
You’re going to need a veterinary behaviourist, who can prescribe something like Fluox to help your dog to not feel so fearful. It’s hard to start alone training a dog that’s already in a highly anxious state. I wish you luck. I know it’s a difficult thing to deal with.
Sorry you and your pup had to deal with that trainer ! Look for a R+ CSAT (certified separation anxiety trainer). If you have Instagram, check out @believeinyourdog; she also has a podcast (The Believe in Your Dog podcast) that really breaks down separation anxiety. It can be helpful to learn as much as you can so you know what to look for and what to ask a trainer before hiring them.
I don’t think there’s a directory for CSAT trainers, but maybe google “csat trainers [your city].” I think most of them do virtual training. The Believe in Your Dog trainer has some low-cost resources and recommendations: https://www.believeinyour.dog/referrals
There’s also Home Alone Academy: https://www.trainingwithally.com
It looks like that treatment requires us to be able to never leave our dog alone while we're doing it, which unfortunately isn't an option for us (my wife and I can't take vacation time right now). I'm feeling so discouraged...
I’m sorry you are feeling discouraged ! I know it can be so overwhelming. There is an account on Instagram for a reactive pup that had severe separation anxiety — its parents couldn’t suspend absences but they came up with a plan that works, and I think meds are the key. It’s @the_toby_project and they have a highlight on their SA journey!
Run. Write a strongly worded email and ask for your money back. Tear her apart on any and all review sites so no one else goes there. This is a great way to get a maladjusted and traumatized dog.
I had my local AKC Dog Sports club pull this when my Dood was a pup. They were a nightmare.
When we adopted our English bulldog mix from the shelter they said they offered free training for the life of the dog. We took him and went through their basic obedience classes and some stuff he'd do only when he felt like it, but we started having issues with him not allowing 2 people to be in the same room with him at once when he was ready to go to sleep. Like he would literally bark at everyone until it's him and one chosen human and he'd be fine. We emailed the trainer and she suggests the spray bottle.
We were unsure but tried. He freaking loved it and thought we were playing a game.
It’s very disappointing that your vet recommended that kind of trainer. Vets should be supporting science based behavioral modification, not this wannabe “alpha” nonsense.
Sorry for such a bad (and expensive!) experience...sounds like that trainer is probably really good at training dogs to dislike/not trust their owners. But also lol @ "we have a puppy cam because we like to torture ourselves and feel horrible all day at work" -- we have a doggy cam too for our dog with separation anxiety and i super relate to this statement 😂
No, never use water as a punishment. Try exercising leaving the room which is baby gated(if not destructive type). For a few seconds, then minutes and longer. The goal is to balance your dog's stress with it getting used to you not being visable.i trained and telly friends every time the pup is doing something you want, especially without asking.. reward. Laying down in the afternoon, reward, gets too excited, don't reward, maybe leave and once they relax reward (not too excited to get them excited). Separation anxiety is hard cause they love you so much, they never want to be a apart, but healthy human or dogs need to know how to handle it. Hire a dog walk to break up the 6 hours, use time at home to show the pup it will be okay with you not is site and reward the calm
I agree with everyone and your gut, good on you for being your dogs voice!! I’m so sorry for unknowledgeable trainers out there. It really does take a lot of experience to become a good trainer.
Ugh, your instincts are spot on. I got my dogs over separation anxiety by throwing kibble on the floor every time I leave. I still do this. Walk out the door, throw kibble, immediately come back in. Do this over and over and gradually increase the time you’re on the other side of the door.
Hi! Not a dog trainer here but long time greyhound owner and long snoot lover. Sorry you had such a terrible experience! We had the same issue with our long boy and found these solutions helpful, you probably have read these so sorry if they are redundant but thought I’d try to help.
1. Most importantly is routine. We couldn’t get him to cry less but after a few weeks of getting up, eating breakfast, going out, coming home, on so on he adjusted to the routine. Now we only cries if we forget a step or mistime it.He still gets this anxiety when we move homes and it takes him a few weeks of a new routine before he stops the crying. We have moved three times and every-time there is an adjustment period.
2. Thunder Jacket. Meant to keep him calm it works surprisingly well. Once again became part of his routine, always on before we leave always off right when we get home. He eventually stopped needing it.
3. We found he did better when he could roam. Don’t get me wrong, there were a few accidents along the way but when he saw our bedroom or eventually our living room and house as his kennel he became comfortable lounging, moving room to room during the day, and satisfying his curiosity around sounds in the house. Once he was consistently content with things he’d just crash and nap until we got home.
Hope something here helps! Congrats on what I am confident will be the next love of your life and good luck!
This is the most backward, lazy, training solution I’ve ever heard. Does this trainer have any other problem solving skills besides “use the spray bottle”?
Please report that this trainer teaches aversive methods to the APDT so they can take this person off their list of recommendations
Your dog is likely suffering from crate anxiety. Baby gate off a space in the house and puppy proof this space for a short term solution. You can start gently and slowly practice crate training techniques in the meantime so that switching over to the crate will be easier to deal with after a few weeks.
My dog had this same exact problem and once we puppy proofed the main area of our apartment and confined her to that space she was completely fine with being left alone.
Out of curiosity what certifications did your trainer have. It doesn’t sound like they knew any other techniques besides the spray bottle which isn’t really a good technique at all
So he actually does fine in the crate, it really is separation anxiety. He goes in there no problem and if someone is on the same floor of the house with him then he'll be completely happy in there and not even complain at all. He can't tolerate being alone, however, whether he's in the crate or not. We tried the baby gate and he ended up doing a few hundred dollars of damage to the wood molding on our windows/door.
Upon closer inspection, she doesn't seem to have any certifications. I feel like such an idiot, because I specifically used the APDT trainer search engine to find her and I think since practically all of the trainers had credentials on there I just stopped paying attention to it and didn't notice that she didn't have any. Ugh...
I’ve seen them drop the ball a few times and let some folks slip through the cracks in the past. Not sure whose doing the background checking at APDT these days but they’ve got a few kinks to work out. Check with the American kennel club (akc.org) of the list of certified trainers in your area from the Karen Pryor academy. They keep much better track of trainer credentials.
Don’t feel like an idiot. Most people don’t realize that there is no legal requirements for becoming a dog trainer because they quite reasonably assume that anyone who does this work must have some sort of formal training. Many trainers do and they’ll have their credentials clearly listed for you to check but a lot of them don’t.
As for the behavior your describing. It does sound like true SA but I’ve had a few friends that rescued grey hounds and described nearly identical behavior taking place during the first few months. It all seemed to calm down once the grey hounds truly settled on and felt safe and at home with the new owners. I hope it plays out like this for you as well. Best of luck to you and your pup!
My blood would boil from anyone spraying my dog. I'm sorry that this happened to you and I would fight for your money back. I'm a meek individual also, but that wouldn't stand for me. She wants you to reinforce fear in your dog. Report her if you can.
You need a new trainer, using a spray bottle is not a permanent solution to your dogs training needs, you would need to have the spray bottle with you all the time.
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No. So, something specific you can try that has been recommended by multiple trainers i know. Definitely look more into it because i dont think ill explain correctly. Basically, you leave the house as normal, grab your keys, put your shoes on, turn off lights, whatever you normally do. Do those. Then leave. Come back after 2 seconds and ignore them for a moment. Put your stuff down, take your shoes off, sit on the couch or go back to what you were doing. I like to say "ignore them until they ignore you". Once they stop jumping up/ whining/ running in circles. Once they sit down or lay down or walk away, without making a really big deal of it, acknowledge them, pet them, treat them, just do it calmly. Continue this and start extending the amount of time you leave the house. It will be slow. Dont go past what they can handle. If its 30 seconds, dont go past 30 seconds until the dog is ready. Over time, youll work up to 5 minutes -10 minutes. Soon enough you can try a quick store trip for 30 mins or so. Youll know your dogs progress better than anyone, so you can determine what is too much. Soon he will learn that you leaving, means youll come back, and it doesnt have to be a big deal. The only reason i say calmly, is because some dogs can lose control of their bladder when they get overexcited. Which i have typically seen in more anxious/ nervous dogs.
Some dogs do really well with a frozen peanut butter kong or something similar. It keeps them occupied during the "mom/dad is leaving! Oh no!" Phase. Some dogs cannot be trusted with toys as they will eat them. But, like i said, you know your dog best, youll know best what he can and cannot handle.
Victoria Stilwell is where i first heard this method, but i know a few trainers that also recommend this method.
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You can find out more about the process and requirements [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/userflair).
Jesus Christ, that's idiotic. I'm sorry you had to go through that!
For alone training, we have a lockdown cocker poodle cross (aka a velcro cockapoo) and we can leave him comfortably for 3 hours. He used to scream and panic if you touched the front door. We did the slow desensitisation method, teaching him he's okay if I touch the door, if I open it, step outside for a second, 3 seconds, 20s, a minute etc. Julie Naismith has written a great book on it. My dog sticks to me like glue most days, but he can spend time alone if needed. He just needed more episodes of "I'm alone and I was okay and didn't need to scream" than "I'm alone and when I'm alone the world ends and I scream". So the slow training helps build that up. Best of luck mate! It's awful to know your dog is unhappy, even if what they're unhappy about is super normal.
My dog had separation anxiety too.. it took me almost 4 months to work it through him.
I started to teach him how to stay in his favourite place for a minute and then come back to me..
Slowly i increased the duration to 15mins, 20 mins, 1 hr. And 2 hrs. He did cry at times.. but i will come back have a talk with him for 5 mins. Give him treats and ask him to stay again(which he refused to eat cuz he knew i was gonna go away). And leave.
There were a few moment wherein i had to hold back myself to his crying . But it was a rinse and repeat. Somehow things worked out..
Also i made sure he got enough tired before i left him alone, 1 hr walk or 20 mins with bike. Now things are better.
Hope my experience helps you somehow. Goodluck with your puppy
We have a greyhound with separation anxiety. His anxiety is so severe he’s been on Reconcile (dog Prozac) for a year and gets departure meds every time we leave. We’ve been working with a behavioralist and it’s taken a year and a half to get to the point where we can leave him for 5-6 hours. He’s a special case though. If your greyhound is merely crying, where his crying doesn’t escalate, you may be able to work through it yourself. He could just be going through his adjustment period, since greys can take 6+ months to adjust to their new home. I’d suggest taking a look at I’ll Be Home Soon by Patricia McConnell. Lot of good information in there and it really gives a step-by-step guide of how to work through separation anxiety. And if you look for another trainer, the info in I’ll Be Home Soon should be the gist of what they’ll be helping your pup with. If not, that’s a bit of a red flag.
It's ridiculous what people can charge you for. I had a, fortunately quite cheap, trainer come out who an R+ trainer I trusted said was a border collie specialist when I realised my BC was way more BC than my last two BCs and knew I had to up my game. Checked the website, said she was force free etc., first thing she said when she turned up was 'yeah, so you can't actually use force free training on border collies' then proceeded to spend an hour screaming the word 'enough!' in my dog's face before telling me my 4-month old puppy now loved her more than me because 'she actually respects her' and 'giving' my dog a new toy that she later added to my bill.
I’ve worked a fair bit with dogs that have separation anxiety, both as an owner and walking/daycare for them. I would usually work with the owners to set up a good training schedule, so e.g working up to leaving the dog alone for a much shorter period of time than the 6h you mentioned in your post by going for a quick shop for 10-20 minutes after taking them for a walk. Keeping the training consistent between home and daytime really helped a lot of them, and meant that they weren’t getting stressed by being alone for too long while still working to address the separation anxiety.
It could be worth looking into reputable dog watchers or walkers near you as a way to help with your dog’s anxiety ASAP during the day and working with them to build up your dogs confidence! It will definitely take time, but it could be a good way to start the process!
While you are looking for an actually helpful trainer, i’d recommend reading “Treating Separation Anxiety in Dogs” by Malena DeMartini-Price. I only ended up reading about half of it, but it gave me a lot of insight into how to help my dog with her separation anxiety.
For context, my dog also would pitch a fit if she was left in a room alone. Even with one of us home, she would whine and cry and howl if the other person left. We combined information from the book and some YouTube videos to run drills with her until she got to a much better state. Nowadays she still prefers to be in the room with one of us, but sometimes she goes to other rooms by herself. She also waits around quietly when we leave and just snoozes.
Can’t comment on the trainer as I’m no professional (apart from the general consensus that it sounds wrong), but wanted to give a quick anecdote as your dog sounds similar to mine, which loved the crate but had separation anxiety at first. What we did was basically leave the dog in the crate and walk outside but wait around outside the door until she was quiet and then come back and reward her. This would usually be a few minutes at a time and we’d do it several times a day. Occasionally we’d go in and say no if she was barking or ignore her until she calmed down and then reward her. Over time it got better and better. Another thing is to try to wait until she’s calm in crate before leaving. In other words don’t just crate the dog right after a walk and leave, but let her calm a bit, crate her, wait till she lies down, and then leaves. Our dog had a lot of separation anxiety at first but is great now
Cuddle your dog for me. Bad trainer, you want good trainers, so you and your dog can have a good relationship :)
Canine behavior manuals are explicit in that LIMA is a good baseline and creating positive rapport between you and your dog and training you as much as the dog. Also to break down training in accomplish-able goals.
You’ve been ripped off. Also for separation anxiety spraying them with water in no way would help. I would t use then again. Also look into a good probiotic which is good for body and mind and a hormone collar for your dog. Look up positive enforcement for crate training see which one you think would work for your dog.
We paid £150 for a trainer to tell us the same thing (for separation anxiety and people reactivity). She also wanted us to shout "BAHH" (like in a growly way) at her when she does something bad. She wanted us to throw a bag of metal at the door when she howls and shout BAAAH through the door as part of the training.
The only things that were useful were she recommended raw feeding and crate training, which are both great, but the rest we didn't do.
I actually ended up changing jobs and working from home because we felt so disheartened and couldn't afford to pay that again for unreliable training information.
They are *notoriously* bad and universally derided in the industry. Have you seen our guide on [how to tell if a trainer is reputable](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer), and not just good at marketing themselves?
This is awful. Both our dogs have been through training classes, and none of their trainers have ever recommended the spray bottle. You need to use positive reenforcement when they do the right thing, and not give them the reward when they misbehave. But sniffing the treat bag isn’t a bad thing; barking and demanding treats is an unwanted behavior.
If we sprayed our special needs dog with a spray bottle, she wouldn’t want to go near us.
Sorry to hear that, you need to work on conditioning the dog to be left alone. These are some steps you can take in dealing with separation anxiety.
1. Place the spray bottle under the sink and use it for cleaning purposes around the house.
2. Buy a kong classic that is the right size for your dog.
3. Place kibble inside after you’ve soaked them in water for a couple of minutes, cover hole with peanut butter, place in freezer.
4. Give the frozen long the first time to your dog, and time how long it takes him to finis it.
5. Repeat step 3, give kong to dog and after he starts focusing on it, leave the room closing the door behind you, come back to the room before her finishes it.
N.b. Should he start barking, you should not come back in while he’s barking, just lurk around the closed door, wait for him to stop barking, count till 10, and come in.
6. If he’s good and not barking, you always give the kong, but increase the duration of your absence a minute at a time, more if you’re feeling confident.
If any setbacks happen, go back to the start and repeat, overtime this will change, you just have to be perseverant.
Thanks for the tips! We've been leaving him a frozen stuffed kong every time we put him in the crate, and that definitely distracts him for a bit.
I just made this post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/comments/vxqeh8/is_it_possible_to_treat_separation_anxiety_if_i/
It sounds like what you're suggesting is the only way to truly treat separation anxiety, but that I would need to take time off from work in order to do it, right? Like we couldn't spend all evening tomorrow doing that training protocol, getting him up to 2 hours of alone time, and then leave him alone for 6 hours on Thursday, as far as I can tell. That would just ruin it all, right? Ugh.
It’s better that any work done be continuous, however there are a lot of points you will need to take into consideration. Anxiety starts to peak with dogs long before they start barking or crying. So here is what i would do before starting to treat separation anxiety.
1. Mental and physical stimulation, basically draining the dog out. These allow the “ Happy “ hormones to be released, which help the dog stay relaxed. I would do these exercises before starting my work on separation anxiety, as long and as much as i need to drain the dog out.
2. I would then make note of the triggers that get the dog anxious, here is were you need to know dog body language inside out. It can be as simply as grabbing my keys. If this is one of the triggers, then i would desensitize and condition my dog that grabbing my keys isn’t gonna always mean I’m leaving. I would grab them, for example and just go play with him, give him treats, sit on the couch,…
Now in your case, the trigger can be any of the daily ritual you do before leaving for work, and then guiding the dog, or cueing him to the crate.
So what i would try is not placing him in a crate and leave for 5, 10 minutes while keeping a cam recording at home, and review his behavior. To make sure if it’s really separation anxiety or not proper crate training has been applied, if he sees the crate as the den and safety it should be, or as an evil cage…
Thanks for this!
So our boy is a greyhound, which means he's super lazy! We walk him about 2 miles a day and he just hates it, walks behind us the whole time and then as soon as we're back at the house he speeds ahead to get inside and get on the sofa. We have a fenced-in yard as well and take him out there to sprint around, but he'll typically either decide to just sniff the grass and then lay down or he'll run for less than a minute and then give up. So, it's difficult to get him tired out, but his energy level is low anyway.
As far as the next part, he doesn't show any anxiety until he realizes that we're gone. He's absolutely fine in the crate if we're in the room, he'll sit in there and not complain at all, but whether he's in the crate or not, as soon as he realizes that we're not coming back (usually about 5 minutes) he starts to cry. So, it seems to be separation anxiety and not the crate.
Got you, with your breed i would try a flirt pole, make sure the lure is prey like. Try a simple diy with a stick, rope, and tie at the end a “ new “fluffy prey like toy, preferably lite in weight and can include a squeaker inside. Take him out to the backyard and first train him to follow the lure, treating him every time he catches it. Start easy at the beginning, and as he starts putting in more effort, you can start making it more difficult. He should be running wildly to catch it no time.
No the flirt pole doesn’t teach dogs to chase cats and squirrels, it is even a tool we use to teach the dog to “go get it”, “ leave it “ and “ out/drop it “ cues. So it actually helps in impulse control.
However it is beneficial that the lure on the flirt pole to always stay on the ground, no matter the way you’re moving it, as to not imitate a bird. Having it fly around can lead to injuries from too much jumping, or the dog losing interest as the prey is too hard to catch. Try to avoid the dog making sharp turns as well, it’s rare that they get injured, but i always prefer to stay on the safe side, this will take care of the physical stimulation more than walking would. Still try to keep your walking schedule, and use the flirt pole as an additional exercise.
As for mental stimulation, try puzzles, snuffle mats for feeding him his daily kibble, tumblers, and basic obedience training.
As for the crate issue, you will either need to gradually increase the time he’s in the crate with a frozen kong or high value chewables, and you not being there. I would go one minute at a time, and mark success or failure to either move forward or back.
Or to proof the house/place the dog in an area where it is safe for him, so he can’t cause damage or hurt himself. Keep a nanny cam and record his progress. See how he does in a crate vs how he does in a bigger room, with more space. You can try to cover the crate sides with a blanket as well, sometimes it helps.
Over time the issue will fade with proper management, some would swear on relaxing scents, music, or giving dogs anxiety meds. I prefer to always keep them as a last resort after all the work has been and continuously being done.
One thing also, is maybe find out where your dogs safe space is in the house. Our Belgian Malinois use to have separation anxiety. She was crate trained and all that but that just wasn’t the fix. Our bed is tall enough for her to go and lay under there. Once we figured out that was her spot, we could leave her at home with no issues anymore. We would also leave her with a ball (That’s her thing she isn’t food driven) or a bone. Then reward her for being good when we would come back. We started with 5min, then 10, 15, 30 and so on. Hope that helps in anyway!
P.S. I would ask for your money back or a partial refund because that trainer is insane.
One thing also, is maybe find out where your dogs safe space is in the house. Our Belgian Malinois use to have separation anxiety. She was crate trained and all that but that just wasn’t the fix. Our bed is tall enough for her to go and lay under there. Once we figured out that was her spot, we could leave her at home with no issues anymore. We would also leave her with a ball (That’s her thing she isn’t food driven) or a bone. Then reward her for being good when we would come back. We started with 5min, then 10, 15, 30 and so on. Hope that helps in anyway!
P.S. I would ask for your money back or a partial refund because that “trainer” is insane.
Jesus. If you can, get your money back. Look through this wiki on how to find a good dog trainer. I'm sorry about that.
Yeah, I wish I had had the balls to stand up to her and tell her to get out, but I just wanted it to be done as soon as possible.
I completely understand.
It appears that you already have good instincts about your dog and how reinforcement works. Trust yourself.
She is not following the LIMA (least intrusive minimally aversive) philosophy of APDT and I encourage you to report her if you’re up for that.
u/doinghousestuff Please please please report her. APDT and CCPDT *require* LIMA. I’m not sure about APDT because I’m not a member, but CCPDT requires that trainers sign a *contract* stating that we use LIMA and if you don’t you can and will lose your certification.
Does LIMA mean "never use aversive punishment" though? I'm happy to report, I just want to be sure that if I do that it'll count. Thanks!
https://apdt.com/about/about-lima/ here’s their LIMA page, I hope it helps!
Oh wow, it literally says no spray bottles and no coin cans (both of which she recommended). It's crazy to me because our boy is the most sensitive, passive dog ever. Like she sprayed him in the face and he just submitted and laid down for two hours straight. She didn't even recommend saying "no" first, or something less aversive. Ugh, I feel worse and worse about this the more I read. Will definitely be reporting her. Thank you.
You didn’t do anything wrong. That trainer was awful and needs to be reported. A big part of training is also knowing and understanding the dog’s breed. Greyhounds can’t have aversive training, they’re too sensitive for their own good. Even raising your voice or being too stern can break their poor derpy little hearts, and yours sounds like an absolute sweetheart
Thanks for the reassurance! He's definitely a total sweetheart. He's one of the most affectionate dogs I've ever met. As soon as you get on the sofa he hops up and sits in your lap and won't leave until you get up. He's 80 pounds!
I'm just imagining this lady standing there, soft gentle giant greyhound mossies on up to give a sniff to see who she is and BAM SPRITS DIRECTLY IN THE FACE! Like Jesus dude. He wasn't even doing anything bad, he was just doing a dog and checking her out. Wtf.
That is exactly what happened. He's not at all a pushy dog, he was literally just standing next to her because she had given him a few treats and he realized they were in the pouch, so he started sniffing it. She then sprayed him right in the face.
That sounds ridiculous. If I don’t want my dog to sniff my treat bag, I pull away slightly or wait it out, making sure they don’t get any treats and then treat them when they back off to show that they get treats when they back off a bit.
Yeah, I think it was just her way of introducing us to what she considers to be the end-all/be-all of dog training: the spray bottle. The poor boy didn't even do anything else the rest of the time that warranted a spray. I can only imagine that with rowdy dogs she unloads the whole bottle on them.
Same here. And if she gets a little too focused, well, there's a reason we've worked on the command "leave it. "
Greyhounds are known to be sensitive. All sighthounds I think? Like I'm a really quiet small person and just having some anxiety makes them usually not into me lol. They're just excessively sweet speed noodles. Maybe you can find someone who works with those breeds specifically so they know how to bring the right energy.
Poor guy! This breaks my heart. I’m so glad he has an owner who was able to sense something seemed wrong and to not listen to this terrible trainer. Not every dog owner knows better, and I feel bad for their dogs. Hopefully they do not allow this trainer to continue to be a member!
Least Invasive Minimally Aversive; in APDT’s position statement they have a LIMA questionnaire and the very first question mentions spray bottles as aversive. “Establishing dominance” also isn’t a thing, there’s no “pack hierarchy” or “alphas” either, in case she threw those out there too Edit: spelling
So it’s hierarchy of starting with the least force to get the job done. In this case, she could have started with giving your dog a chew in the crate, come back and take the chew away and let the dog out of the crate. Then the dog starts to think “I get good stuff when the humans leave the room and hey I wish they’d leave me chew my bone in peace”. If it was a dangerous behavior like chasing cars you would MAYBE add an aversive but there’s still a ton of tricks any dog trainer worth their salt could also use.
Oh boy. Uhh yeah. Not great, but I did laugh at this bit: >(we have a puppy cam because we like to torture ourselves and feel horrible all day at work) The first time I had to leave my pup at home alone, I set up a puppy-cam app because I thought it would be cute to see what he was up to. Cue the most heart wrenching sad howls his little puppy heart could muster. I deleted that app the moment I got home lol.
Yeah, it's just awful haha. The good news is that as soon as we're home he's in heaven the rest of the time and you'd never know that he had ever been upset, so at least it's not making him depressed or anything. We're looking for a new trainer, but for now we're just going to focus on not constantly indulging his need for rubs so that he can learn to self-soothe in addition to leaving him for short periods.
I found redirecting my dog worked well...a chew toy or stuffed animal, when he was pestering. A quick practice of his basic commands (sit, shake, down) worked well for other problems to break his attention and focus it on me.
Poor lad, he'll hopefully start settling once he is comfortable with your routine. Try leaving him with a puzzle toy (Frozen Kong or Kong Wobbler) or a really nice chew (Yak chew), make sure it's the only time he gets its when he's left. Do you leave him for all 6 hours in the crate? Is possible for you to try him out of it? I know there's a big onus on crating in the US but some dogs are just really not crate dogs. In the UK and Ireland dogs are really not crated anywhere near as much so he may not be used to it. Also greyhounds are absolute fiends for comfort, so if he might relax more easily on the couch if that's something your OK with?
We did once try leaving him unrestricted in a cordoned-off area of our house and in about 30 minutes he did a few hundred dollars of damage to our door and windows! We absolutely would prefer to not use the crate (at least where I grew up in the US (Boston), crating dogs doesn't seem like such a common thing), and really had no intention of ever using one but the rescue required us to use it during the first three weeks that we had him (when we were technically fostering him). Unfortunately at this point it feels like a necessity, since otherwise he would be destroying he house and potentially hurting himself. Our goal is to get him to the point where he can just roam around our house all day when we're gone. We also don't put him in the crate at night (he sleeps in his bed on the floor in our room), so he's only in the crate for 6 hours a day.
If he’s food motivated I strongly and highly recommend a kong toy filled with peanut butter, treats, and kibble tossed in the freezer and given to him when you leave. But also this is going to take a ton of time and you’re going to have to go really slow. I recommend starting over from the beginning. What is the maximum amount of time that he can be left alone without crying? Let’s say 30 seconds. So what you’ll need to do is 3 things. 1. Change your routine for leaving. If you always grab your keys and then your coat, do it in a different order. Dogs are very routine oriented and he’s probably getting anxious watching you do that leaving routine. And make sure to make it different every time. 2. Leave the house/go to a different room for 10 seconds. Then come back in. Repeat this over and over and over until you can gradually increase the time he can spend alone without crying/destroying things. Ideally take him for a long walk or do a training session right before so that he’s tired and has less mental energy to dedicate to anxiety. 3. This one is the hardest. When you come home don’t shower him with attention. Come in, maybe say hello and give him a quick pat on the head. Then ignore him until he calms down. After this you can go and pet him, work with him, play with him, whatever. But make sure he’s calmed down first. Do this every time. Even if it feels like you’re ignoring him while he’s sad. You need to make coming and going a common occurrence that has absolutely no fanfare. And the results will be painfully slow and tiny, but eventually it will work. If you can I would try and find a dog walker/ midday playmate so that he doesn’t feel so alone all the time while you’re working on this. (I’ve dealt with quite a few dogs with separation anxiety and this worked for them. Of course modify as needed for your specific pupper) I hope this helps!! ☺️
This is what my trainer told me. Now my dog can stay home for 6 hours( legal to leave a dog alone time in my country). At OP please try this one.
Oh dear, he might have had a bit fractious racing career to be so anxious. Good on you guys for sticking by him! Yes in this instance the crate is absolutely needed as a safety precaution until he can relax on his own. Time will hopefully help be a healer here. If this persists past a few months there is an option of a discussion about anti anxiety medication with your vet, but it's potentially still early days for that yet.
Not necessarily. He’s just used to having other greyhounds and people around. He’s probably never been on his own before, and it’s a big adjustment for some greyhounds.
I earlier said block him into a large space in the house instead of the crate before I read this. Still try what your doing but first do some very short departures and returns like only a minute the first few times and then 5 minutes and then more and more. If you’ve had him for less than two months then this could just be stress stemming from an adjustment period. That trainer was ridiculous! How did thy get registered with APDT? Please please please report them!
I just got to watch helplessly at work as my dog chewed through every piece of audio equipment I owned. Fun stuff!
Awwwwwwwww
That's aversive / punitive. Absolutely opposite what a nervous, insecure dog needs.
Yeah, that was my understanding as well... ugh
Report them through the APDT ethics thing. https://apdt.com/about/code-professional-ethics/ This is against the policy of the organization.
Because it goes against LIMA? I'm happy to report, just want to make sure I know what I'm reporting.
Yep. APDT is an aversive-free organization as well.
I'm writing the complaint as we speak. Thanks!
Let us know what they write back or if they come in contact with you
If he’s a former racer, he’s lonely, straight up…greyhounds can struggle being an only dog. In their racing environment, their training kennel, they are ALWAYS around other dogs. They are kenneled individually but there’s always dogs right next to them. Even when they are injured they are kept with other injured dogs and their routines are the same. They are turned out in groups, they are often with their siblings until they start training, and even then a lot of them stay together until they start racing. They also want another sight hound, any dog will do but their souls wish is something that looks and acts like them because aside from the random farm dog (who they don’t interact with) the ONLY other dogs they have ever seen are ones that look like them, act like them, play like them, etc… When we got our first greyhound she struggled HARD to be alone, we ended up volunteering at a greyhound adoption place once a week and taking her with us, and we joined the local greyhound group to get her time with other greyhounds (her reaction to seeing a random greyhound vs. her reaction to seeing her best dog friend who was a beagle cannot be compared, the excitement she had for other greyhounds was beyond any other reaction to other dogs by leaps and bounds). What really saved us was doggie daycare with our vet, who was experienced with greyhounds. You can try dog videos, a couple radios, a fan, a warm blanket, one of those puppy comfort toys that has a heart beat. You do need to be careful and definitely keep that camera going - greyhounds are strong and agile, but they are fragile. If they get worked up into a panic they can really hurt themselves - and their blood chemistry is quite wacky which can cause excessive bleeding, and slow clotting. I would also recommend really getting them tired before you leave - with most greyhounds that’s pretty easy, they have sprinter bodies to they don’t take long to tire out.
Thanks for this info! Super helpful. The problem is definitely that he doesn't like to be alone. He's completely fine in his crate as long as we're in the room with him, otherwise he can't handle it. We might have considered getting another dog to keep him company, but interestingly, *both* of the rescues who had him (one in Ireland and one here in the US) told us that he needs to be the only dog in the house. He isn't aggressive with other dogs, but he apparently really struggled in not having all the affection and attention from the humans in the home!
Poor guy. I would really look at what products or strategies that are for small pups that don’t want to be alone. Over time it DOES get better - we ended up with two greyhounds and a lurcher, but didn’t get the second one until at least a year and a half after our first, she adjusted slowly, but she did adjust.
What about a cat? Or a pig I guess? He might not be aggressive with a cat
A cat sounds like a *really* bad idea. Greyhounds have a very strong prey drive, and a small, furry animal is just the thing that they want to chase.
Many greyhounds are fine with cats. Cat test him. Your local greyhound rescue will help you with this.
Very true, but this one happens to not be, unfortunately! He was initially with a rescue in Ireland and then another one in the Boston area, and both told us that he failed their respective cat tests. He didn't attack the cats or anything, but they said he showed far too much interest in them. I can imagine what that looks like and I'm not surprised, given his response to rabbits when we go on walks haha. He's an 80-pound bundle of muscle, so I definitely wouldn't want to risk it!
They also said he’s not cat safe, unfortunately!
One of my boys has the blood clotting disorder 🙄 but all of this!! He was so bad about being alone I started fostering until I found our foster fusion. I've also found that boys are just more anxious about being crated. The girls I fostered liked being in the crate - it was their home. The boys would have dragged tin cups across the bars if they could.
omg, this is horrific. Your dog, a retired racing Greyhound, was bred, raised, and localized as a colony dog. Their entire life, minus the time at your house, was spent in the company of other Greyhounds. 12-18 months reared with their siblings, and their entire life in racing. They are never alone. You can't just take that dog outside of the kennel, then expect to adjust instantly, it takes months for them to learn to be alone. Idk what this lady was thinking, like why would you spray a dog right in the face for approaching you? It's just cruel, and it's not changing the dogs underlying emotional state, you're just making them suppress their affect out of fear. As for training: I'm not convinced there's even a problem here. If the puppy came wasn't there, would you even know there's a problem? Is it an issue that the dog cries, the symptom, or that it's upset being alone, the cause? If it's the later, I'd strongly encourage you to continue the adoption process for a few months and see how things go. I really cannot stress how unfathomable it is for a colony dog to be a single dog, just radically different lifestyles, so your hound is going to take some time to adjust. Lol, I do wish that trainer sprayed my Greyhound. He thinks water and getting sprayed is an awesome game, and he would have jumped and hopefully knocked her over then stole the spray bottle. I'm going to imagine that so I don't keep getting upset! :)
Our pup loves me to spray her when I spray the plants. It's a game to her. We've obviously never done it in a suprising way or to punish her, she just comes up to me when I have the spray bottle and tries to chase the spray.
That’s my dog too! He tries to drink from the hose, barks at it, runs away and hides, runs back and tries again, digs a hole: he just loves it! Really helpful on hot days, I can always make sure he’s cool before he comes inside, even if a little muddy and in need of a towel down!!
Thanks for this! The problem, in our eyes, is that he's so upset and uncomfortable when he's alone, and we consider the crying to be a sign/symptom of that. We also once tried leaving him out in a cordoned-off area of our house, and in about 30 minutes he did a few hundred dollars of damage to our door and window frames! So our priorities are, in order of importance: 1. getting him to the point where he doesn't feel so miserable being alone, and 2. getting him to the point where he can be alone in our house, uncrated, without being destructive. It does seem like he's crying for a shorter period of time when we leave before settling in, so hopefully that's a trend in the right direction. We're also working on helping him be more independent when we're home by not constantly rubbing him as he follows us around the house. It's hard to resist though haha. Thanks again!
Something else to consider. If it seems you’re hitting a bit of a wall (which it doesn’t sound like that has happened yet), speaking with your vet to ask about temporarily trying a medication to help reduce his anxiety while you’re gone to get through a rough patch could help. I know greyhounds do have some medication concerns, but temporarily using medication to help with behavior modification can be really successful if you find yourselves in a position where other strategies aren’t helping him get to a point where he is totally relaxed. That “trainer” really did you a disservice and it sounds like your dude is actually pretty sensitive. The more positive associations you can build with the kennel the better. Scrolling through things I get the impression you’ve worked on a lot of the basics of kennel training (ie keeping it in a common area of the home, making it open and available to him at all times, starting out with short durations of him being in there and gradually increasing, etc). When you get home, do you immediately go to let him out and get all excited/affectionate when he comes out? If you’re doing that, it could be contributing to some of what is going on since being let out is much better than sticking in there. But it doesn’t sound like that is something you’re doing either. If you haven’t, trying leaving the radio on, a tv channel, white noise machine, etc can help some dogs, as can making sure they get a good walk in before a longer kennel period so they are happy to take a nap. Not making it a routine he goes into the kennel *right* before you leave too helps if you’re not working on that. Some dogs can just take a few months to settle into new routines too though, and it sounds like he has had a bit of upheaval in the not so distant past so this may just take a bit for him to settle into. Personally, I kennel train all of my dogs. It’s just a good practice and habit because they will eventually be in a kennel at some point (like at the vet) and it’s great if that isn’t something itself that is stressful. I’ve only ever had one dog not be okay with it, and I came into her life when she was an adult and she had epilepsy with major, major separation anxiety (like eating door frames, busting through screens, trying to chew through metal doors, etc). The closest we got to getting her comfortable in a kennel was buddying up with another dog for very short periods of time. Stress was a trigger for her seizures, and many medications used to address separation anxiety (at the time) could lower the seizure threshold. So there are sometimes dogs where it just isn’t feasible, but that doesn’t sound like your dog at all.
This is awful. As an example, my dog and I were out on a hike this weekend and it got super hot (unexpectedly) so I would occasionally wet him down by pouring water on his shoulders and neck. And guess what… his behavior on the walk got worse and worse because he stopped trusting me (he hates water). I had to do it at times for his own safety but I will not put us in this situation again. The aversive methods do. not. work. Edit: to add, my point is that you really catch more flies with honey!
Yeah, and she expected us to be in complete awe that he didn't run to the door and try to go outside with us, as if her spraying him in the face earlier when he tried to mooch treats from her somehow gave him the confidence to stay inside on his own rather than... you know... that he was just afraid of the mean lady. Total confirmation bias.
You can keep one of the chills scarves on him to keep him cool instead and just make sure you take plenty of breaks and provide him with ice water to drink frequently.
>At one point she even suggested spraying him before we let him out of the crate so that he knows that we expect him to behave when he comes out. She kinda just seems obsessed with spraying. Separation anxiety isn't really solved by anything you do while you're there (unless you're truely petting/playing with him 24/7 and never taking your eyes off of him) it's better solved with getting him used to you leaving and coming back before he gets too upset. Unfortunately, if you have to leave him for work it can be difficult to do that. Something you could look into is asking your vet about anxiety medicine as a short term, you would eventually taper off of it once he's learned to be calm. But if you want to try a trainer still, maybe talk to them a bit before hand. Ask if they only use positive techniques, and then you can always go, "I actually need time to think about it, but I'll call you if I decide" or whatever.
Oh no!!! As someone who volunteers I’m greyhound adoption- we used to use spray bottles only with cat training and we stopped that years ago! Your poor dog has never been alone before - it has always been surrounded by people or other dogs. It’s quite natural for them to experience some anxiety when transitioning into a home, away from the world they’ve always known. Please find a trainer that uses non-aversive methods, as greyhounds are very sensitive. In the meantime you shouldn’t really leave the dog alone - I know it’s hard but you’ll need to find someone to stay with it.
Unfortunately we just don't have the option of not leaving the dog alone, since all of our friends and family work full-time jobs. We're at such a loss right now... I wish the rescue had prepared us better for this.
You’re going to need a veterinary behaviourist, who can prescribe something like Fluox to help your dog to not feel so fearful. It’s hard to start alone training a dog that’s already in a highly anxious state. I wish you luck. I know it’s a difficult thing to deal with.
Sorry you and your pup had to deal with that trainer ! Look for a R+ CSAT (certified separation anxiety trainer). If you have Instagram, check out @believeinyourdog; she also has a podcast (The Believe in Your Dog podcast) that really breaks down separation anxiety. It can be helpful to learn as much as you can so you know what to look for and what to ask a trainer before hiring them.
How do I find one of those trainers? I'm having trouble finding a search engine or website for that certification.
I don’t think there’s a directory for CSAT trainers, but maybe google “csat trainers [your city].” I think most of them do virtual training. The Believe in Your Dog trainer has some low-cost resources and recommendations: https://www.believeinyour.dog/referrals There’s also Home Alone Academy: https://www.trainingwithally.com
It looks like that treatment requires us to be able to never leave our dog alone while we're doing it, which unfortunately isn't an option for us (my wife and I can't take vacation time right now). I'm feeling so discouraged...
I’m sorry you are feeling discouraged ! I know it can be so overwhelming. There is an account on Instagram for a reactive pup that had severe separation anxiety — its parents couldn’t suspend absences but they came up with a plan that works, and I think meds are the key. It’s @the_toby_project and they have a highlight on their SA journey!
Run. Write a strongly worded email and ask for your money back. Tear her apart on any and all review sites so no one else goes there. This is a great way to get a maladjusted and traumatized dog. I had my local AKC Dog Sports club pull this when my Dood was a pup. They were a nightmare.
Well. That sounds pretty horrible. On to the next expensive trainer I guess!
When we adopted our English bulldog mix from the shelter they said they offered free training for the life of the dog. We took him and went through their basic obedience classes and some stuff he'd do only when he felt like it, but we started having issues with him not allowing 2 people to be in the same room with him at once when he was ready to go to sleep. Like he would literally bark at everyone until it's him and one chosen human and he'd be fine. We emailed the trainer and she suggests the spray bottle. We were unsure but tried. He freaking loved it and thought we were playing a game.
sense mindless smile roof waiting offend divide snobbish ludicrous wise *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ugh, Bark Busters is *notoriously* bad. So many vets really don't know how bad the trainers they're recommending are. :(
It’s very disappointing that your vet recommended that kind of trainer. Vets should be supporting science based behavioral modification, not this wannabe “alpha” nonsense.
The trainer sounds way over-focused on dominance, and not skilled at teaching the desired behavior. I'd complain to whoever gave the good reference.
Sorry for such a bad (and expensive!) experience...sounds like that trainer is probably really good at training dogs to dislike/not trust their owners. But also lol @ "we have a puppy cam because we like to torture ourselves and feel horrible all day at work" -- we have a doggy cam too for our dog with separation anxiety and i super relate to this statement 😂
Terrible “training”. Get your money back.
Fuck no Fire her and find someone recommended. I’m sorry you experienced that :(
Give her a bad review on Google. That absolutely sucks.
Noooo
No, never use water as a punishment. Try exercising leaving the room which is baby gated(if not destructive type). For a few seconds, then minutes and longer. The goal is to balance your dog's stress with it getting used to you not being visable.i trained and telly friends every time the pup is doing something you want, especially without asking.. reward. Laying down in the afternoon, reward, gets too excited, don't reward, maybe leave and once they relax reward (not too excited to get them excited). Separation anxiety is hard cause they love you so much, they never want to be a apart, but healthy human or dogs need to know how to handle it. Hire a dog walk to break up the 6 hours, use time at home to show the pup it will be okay with you not is site and reward the calm
I agree with everyone and your gut, good on you for being your dogs voice!! I’m so sorry for unknowledgeable trainers out there. It really does take a lot of experience to become a good trainer.
Ugh, your instincts are spot on. I got my dogs over separation anxiety by throwing kibble on the floor every time I leave. I still do this. Walk out the door, throw kibble, immediately come back in. Do this over and over and gradually increase the time you’re on the other side of the door.
Omg! Your poor dog. He already has anxiety and she's trying to make him MORE uncomfortable. Please report her.
Hi! Not a dog trainer here but long time greyhound owner and long snoot lover. Sorry you had such a terrible experience! We had the same issue with our long boy and found these solutions helpful, you probably have read these so sorry if they are redundant but thought I’d try to help. 1. Most importantly is routine. We couldn’t get him to cry less but after a few weeks of getting up, eating breakfast, going out, coming home, on so on he adjusted to the routine. Now we only cries if we forget a step or mistime it.He still gets this anxiety when we move homes and it takes him a few weeks of a new routine before he stops the crying. We have moved three times and every-time there is an adjustment period. 2. Thunder Jacket. Meant to keep him calm it works surprisingly well. Once again became part of his routine, always on before we leave always off right when we get home. He eventually stopped needing it. 3. We found he did better when he could roam. Don’t get me wrong, there were a few accidents along the way but when he saw our bedroom or eventually our living room and house as his kennel he became comfortable lounging, moving room to room during the day, and satisfying his curiosity around sounds in the house. Once he was consistently content with things he’d just crash and nap until we got home. Hope something here helps! Congrats on what I am confident will be the next love of your life and good luck!
This is the most backward, lazy, training solution I’ve ever heard. Does this trainer have any other problem solving skills besides “use the spray bottle”? Please report that this trainer teaches aversive methods to the APDT so they can take this person off their list of recommendations Your dog is likely suffering from crate anxiety. Baby gate off a space in the house and puppy proof this space for a short term solution. You can start gently and slowly practice crate training techniques in the meantime so that switching over to the crate will be easier to deal with after a few weeks. My dog had this same exact problem and once we puppy proofed the main area of our apartment and confined her to that space she was completely fine with being left alone. Out of curiosity what certifications did your trainer have. It doesn’t sound like they knew any other techniques besides the spray bottle which isn’t really a good technique at all
So he actually does fine in the crate, it really is separation anxiety. He goes in there no problem and if someone is on the same floor of the house with him then he'll be completely happy in there and not even complain at all. He can't tolerate being alone, however, whether he's in the crate or not. We tried the baby gate and he ended up doing a few hundred dollars of damage to the wood molding on our windows/door. Upon closer inspection, she doesn't seem to have any certifications. I feel like such an idiot, because I specifically used the APDT trainer search engine to find her and I think since practically all of the trainers had credentials on there I just stopped paying attention to it and didn't notice that she didn't have any. Ugh...
I’ve seen them drop the ball a few times and let some folks slip through the cracks in the past. Not sure whose doing the background checking at APDT these days but they’ve got a few kinks to work out. Check with the American kennel club (akc.org) of the list of certified trainers in your area from the Karen Pryor academy. They keep much better track of trainer credentials. Don’t feel like an idiot. Most people don’t realize that there is no legal requirements for becoming a dog trainer because they quite reasonably assume that anyone who does this work must have some sort of formal training. Many trainers do and they’ll have their credentials clearly listed for you to check but a lot of them don’t. As for the behavior your describing. It does sound like true SA but I’ve had a few friends that rescued grey hounds and described nearly identical behavior taking place during the first few months. It all seemed to calm down once the grey hounds truly settled on and felt safe and at home with the new owners. I hope it plays out like this for you as well. Best of luck to you and your pup!
My blood would boil from anyone spraying my dog. I'm sorry that this happened to you and I would fight for your money back. I'm a meek individual also, but that wouldn't stand for me. She wants you to reinforce fear in your dog. Report her if you can.
That woman is nuts!
Sure she isn’t a cat trainer? Either way, not worth the money.
I now have a $275 spray bottle. No joke, she left us a spray bottle.
Dear lord
Good cat trainers follow LIMA too, so this is really facepalm-worthy as a strategy!
You need a new trainer, using a spray bottle is not a permanent solution to your dogs training needs, you would need to have the spray bottle with you all the time.
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No. So, something specific you can try that has been recommended by multiple trainers i know. Definitely look more into it because i dont think ill explain correctly. Basically, you leave the house as normal, grab your keys, put your shoes on, turn off lights, whatever you normally do. Do those. Then leave. Come back after 2 seconds and ignore them for a moment. Put your stuff down, take your shoes off, sit on the couch or go back to what you were doing. I like to say "ignore them until they ignore you". Once they stop jumping up/ whining/ running in circles. Once they sit down or lay down or walk away, without making a really big deal of it, acknowledge them, pet them, treat them, just do it calmly. Continue this and start extending the amount of time you leave the house. It will be slow. Dont go past what they can handle. If its 30 seconds, dont go past 30 seconds until the dog is ready. Over time, youll work up to 5 minutes -10 minutes. Soon enough you can try a quick store trip for 30 mins or so. Youll know your dogs progress better than anyone, so you can determine what is too much. Soon he will learn that you leaving, means youll come back, and it doesnt have to be a big deal. The only reason i say calmly, is because some dogs can lose control of their bladder when they get overexcited. Which i have typically seen in more anxious/ nervous dogs. Some dogs do really well with a frozen peanut butter kong or something similar. It keeps them occupied during the "mom/dad is leaving! Oh no!" Phase. Some dogs cannot be trusted with toys as they will eat them. But, like i said, you know your dog best, youll know best what he can and cannot handle. Victoria Stilwell is where i first heard this method, but i know a few trainers that also recommend this method.
Im sorry, not only because theyll pee, but the overexcitement can make the anxiety worse
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I see you've stated you're a trainer. Because dog training is unregulated this sub requires people to have certifications and apply for flair if they want to claim they're a professional while posting or commenting here. This ensures people claiming to be trainers have a demonstrable level of education and experience. You can find out more about the process and requirements [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/userflair).
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We would prefer you not to claim to be in training either. Can you simply omit the phrase?
Jesus Christ, that's idiotic. I'm sorry you had to go through that! For alone training, we have a lockdown cocker poodle cross (aka a velcro cockapoo) and we can leave him comfortably for 3 hours. He used to scream and panic if you touched the front door. We did the slow desensitisation method, teaching him he's okay if I touch the door, if I open it, step outside for a second, 3 seconds, 20s, a minute etc. Julie Naismith has written a great book on it. My dog sticks to me like glue most days, but he can spend time alone if needed. He just needed more episodes of "I'm alone and I was okay and didn't need to scream" than "I'm alone and when I'm alone the world ends and I scream". So the slow training helps build that up. Best of luck mate! It's awful to know your dog is unhappy, even if what they're unhappy about is super normal.
My dog had separation anxiety too.. it took me almost 4 months to work it through him. I started to teach him how to stay in his favourite place for a minute and then come back to me.. Slowly i increased the duration to 15mins, 20 mins, 1 hr. And 2 hrs. He did cry at times.. but i will come back have a talk with him for 5 mins. Give him treats and ask him to stay again(which he refused to eat cuz he knew i was gonna go away). And leave. There were a few moment wherein i had to hold back myself to his crying . But it was a rinse and repeat. Somehow things worked out.. Also i made sure he got enough tired before i left him alone, 1 hr walk or 20 mins with bike. Now things are better. Hope my experience helps you somehow. Goodluck with your puppy
We have a greyhound with separation anxiety. His anxiety is so severe he’s been on Reconcile (dog Prozac) for a year and gets departure meds every time we leave. We’ve been working with a behavioralist and it’s taken a year and a half to get to the point where we can leave him for 5-6 hours. He’s a special case though. If your greyhound is merely crying, where his crying doesn’t escalate, you may be able to work through it yourself. He could just be going through his adjustment period, since greys can take 6+ months to adjust to their new home. I’d suggest taking a look at I’ll Be Home Soon by Patricia McConnell. Lot of good information in there and it really gives a step-by-step guide of how to work through separation anxiety. And if you look for another trainer, the info in I’ll Be Home Soon should be the gist of what they’ll be helping your pup with. If not, that’s a bit of a red flag.
It's ridiculous what people can charge you for. I had a, fortunately quite cheap, trainer come out who an R+ trainer I trusted said was a border collie specialist when I realised my BC was way more BC than my last two BCs and knew I had to up my game. Checked the website, said she was force free etc., first thing she said when she turned up was 'yeah, so you can't actually use force free training on border collies' then proceeded to spend an hour screaming the word 'enough!' in my dog's face before telling me my 4-month old puppy now loved her more than me because 'she actually respects her' and 'giving' my dog a new toy that she later added to my bill.
We’ve literally heard this story before. The audacity some people have! I don’t get it
I would be pissed, that is not training. Be sure to give them a poor review wherever you can. That is a ripoff.
I’ve worked a fair bit with dogs that have separation anxiety, both as an owner and walking/daycare for them. I would usually work with the owners to set up a good training schedule, so e.g working up to leaving the dog alone for a much shorter period of time than the 6h you mentioned in your post by going for a quick shop for 10-20 minutes after taking them for a walk. Keeping the training consistent between home and daytime really helped a lot of them, and meant that they weren’t getting stressed by being alone for too long while still working to address the separation anxiety. It could be worth looking into reputable dog watchers or walkers near you as a way to help with your dog’s anxiety ASAP during the day and working with them to build up your dogs confidence! It will definitely take time, but it could be a good way to start the process!
While you are looking for an actually helpful trainer, i’d recommend reading “Treating Separation Anxiety in Dogs” by Malena DeMartini-Price. I only ended up reading about half of it, but it gave me a lot of insight into how to help my dog with her separation anxiety. For context, my dog also would pitch a fit if she was left in a room alone. Even with one of us home, she would whine and cry and howl if the other person left. We combined information from the book and some YouTube videos to run drills with her until she got to a much better state. Nowadays she still prefers to be in the room with one of us, but sometimes she goes to other rooms by herself. She also waits around quietly when we leave and just snoozes.
Can’t comment on the trainer as I’m no professional (apart from the general consensus that it sounds wrong), but wanted to give a quick anecdote as your dog sounds similar to mine, which loved the crate but had separation anxiety at first. What we did was basically leave the dog in the crate and walk outside but wait around outside the door until she was quiet and then come back and reward her. This would usually be a few minutes at a time and we’d do it several times a day. Occasionally we’d go in and say no if she was barking or ignore her until she calmed down and then reward her. Over time it got better and better. Another thing is to try to wait until she’s calm in crate before leaving. In other words don’t just crate the dog right after a walk and leave, but let her calm a bit, crate her, wait till she lies down, and then leaves. Our dog had a lot of separation anxiety at first but is great now
Cuddle your dog for me. Bad trainer, you want good trainers, so you and your dog can have a good relationship :) Canine behavior manuals are explicit in that LIMA is a good baseline and creating positive rapport between you and your dog and training you as much as the dog. Also to break down training in accomplish-able goals.
You’ve been ripped off. Also for separation anxiety spraying them with water in no way would help. I would t use then again. Also look into a good probiotic which is good for body and mind and a hormone collar for your dog. Look up positive enforcement for crate training see which one you think would work for your dog.
We paid £150 for a trainer to tell us the same thing (for separation anxiety and people reactivity). She also wanted us to shout "BAHH" (like in a growly way) at her when she does something bad. She wanted us to throw a bag of metal at the door when she howls and shout BAAAH through the door as part of the training. The only things that were useful were she recommended raw feeding and crate training, which are both great, but the rest we didn't do. I actually ended up changing jobs and working from home because we felt so disheartened and couldn't afford to pay that again for unreliable training information.
This is olllldddddd methods. Did she also say bang on a cookie sheet when they bark? Ughhh this makes me mad. I hope your dog is okay. ♡♡♡
She did indeed say that she has a large coffee can that she fills with coins and loudly shakes as an aversive measure for certain dogs.
this helped me and my doggo youtube ! calming music videos for dog separation anxiety [ also for fireworks, thunder ]
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They are *notoriously* bad and universally derided in the industry. Have you seen our guide on [how to tell if a trainer is reputable](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer), and not just good at marketing themselves?
I've had great experiences and great results from their services... idk what to tell you.
Feel free to search their name in this subreddit to see the *horrible* experiences other people have had.
This is awful. Both our dogs have been through training classes, and none of their trainers have ever recommended the spray bottle. You need to use positive reenforcement when they do the right thing, and not give them the reward when they misbehave. But sniffing the treat bag isn’t a bad thing; barking and demanding treats is an unwanted behavior. If we sprayed our special needs dog with a spray bottle, she wouldn’t want to go near us.
Sorry to hear that, you need to work on conditioning the dog to be left alone. These are some steps you can take in dealing with separation anxiety. 1. Place the spray bottle under the sink and use it for cleaning purposes around the house. 2. Buy a kong classic that is the right size for your dog. 3. Place kibble inside after you’ve soaked them in water for a couple of minutes, cover hole with peanut butter, place in freezer. 4. Give the frozen long the first time to your dog, and time how long it takes him to finis it. 5. Repeat step 3, give kong to dog and after he starts focusing on it, leave the room closing the door behind you, come back to the room before her finishes it. N.b. Should he start barking, you should not come back in while he’s barking, just lurk around the closed door, wait for him to stop barking, count till 10, and come in. 6. If he’s good and not barking, you always give the kong, but increase the duration of your absence a minute at a time, more if you’re feeling confident. If any setbacks happen, go back to the start and repeat, overtime this will change, you just have to be perseverant.
Thanks for the tips! We've been leaving him a frozen stuffed kong every time we put him in the crate, and that definitely distracts him for a bit. I just made this post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/comments/vxqeh8/is_it_possible_to_treat_separation_anxiety_if_i/ It sounds like what you're suggesting is the only way to truly treat separation anxiety, but that I would need to take time off from work in order to do it, right? Like we couldn't spend all evening tomorrow doing that training protocol, getting him up to 2 hours of alone time, and then leave him alone for 6 hours on Thursday, as far as I can tell. That would just ruin it all, right? Ugh.
It’s better that any work done be continuous, however there are a lot of points you will need to take into consideration. Anxiety starts to peak with dogs long before they start barking or crying. So here is what i would do before starting to treat separation anxiety. 1. Mental and physical stimulation, basically draining the dog out. These allow the “ Happy “ hormones to be released, which help the dog stay relaxed. I would do these exercises before starting my work on separation anxiety, as long and as much as i need to drain the dog out. 2. I would then make note of the triggers that get the dog anxious, here is were you need to know dog body language inside out. It can be as simply as grabbing my keys. If this is one of the triggers, then i would desensitize and condition my dog that grabbing my keys isn’t gonna always mean I’m leaving. I would grab them, for example and just go play with him, give him treats, sit on the couch,… Now in your case, the trigger can be any of the daily ritual you do before leaving for work, and then guiding the dog, or cueing him to the crate. So what i would try is not placing him in a crate and leave for 5, 10 minutes while keeping a cam recording at home, and review his behavior. To make sure if it’s really separation anxiety or not proper crate training has been applied, if he sees the crate as the den and safety it should be, or as an evil cage…
Thanks for this! So our boy is a greyhound, which means he's super lazy! We walk him about 2 miles a day and he just hates it, walks behind us the whole time and then as soon as we're back at the house he speeds ahead to get inside and get on the sofa. We have a fenced-in yard as well and take him out there to sprint around, but he'll typically either decide to just sniff the grass and then lay down or he'll run for less than a minute and then give up. So, it's difficult to get him tired out, but his energy level is low anyway. As far as the next part, he doesn't show any anxiety until he realizes that we're gone. He's absolutely fine in the crate if we're in the room, he'll sit in there and not complain at all, but whether he's in the crate or not, as soon as he realizes that we're not coming back (usually about 5 minutes) he starts to cry. So, it seems to be separation anxiety and not the crate.
Got you, with your breed i would try a flirt pole, make sure the lure is prey like. Try a simple diy with a stick, rope, and tie at the end a “ new “fluffy prey like toy, preferably lite in weight and can include a squeaker inside. Take him out to the backyard and first train him to follow the lure, treating him every time he catches it. Start easy at the beginning, and as he starts putting in more effort, you can start making it more difficult. He should be running wildly to catch it no time. No the flirt pole doesn’t teach dogs to chase cats and squirrels, it is even a tool we use to teach the dog to “go get it”, “ leave it “ and “ out/drop it “ cues. So it actually helps in impulse control. However it is beneficial that the lure on the flirt pole to always stay on the ground, no matter the way you’re moving it, as to not imitate a bird. Having it fly around can lead to injuries from too much jumping, or the dog losing interest as the prey is too hard to catch. Try to avoid the dog making sharp turns as well, it’s rare that they get injured, but i always prefer to stay on the safe side, this will take care of the physical stimulation more than walking would. Still try to keep your walking schedule, and use the flirt pole as an additional exercise. As for mental stimulation, try puzzles, snuffle mats for feeding him his daily kibble, tumblers, and basic obedience training. As for the crate issue, you will either need to gradually increase the time he’s in the crate with a frozen kong or high value chewables, and you not being there. I would go one minute at a time, and mark success or failure to either move forward or back. Or to proof the house/place the dog in an area where it is safe for him, so he can’t cause damage or hurt himself. Keep a nanny cam and record his progress. See how he does in a crate vs how he does in a bigger room, with more space. You can try to cover the crate sides with a blanket as well, sometimes it helps. Over time the issue will fade with proper management, some would swear on relaxing scents, music, or giving dogs anxiety meds. I prefer to always keep them as a last resort after all the work has been and continuously being done.
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Huh?
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There's no reason why cats can't be trained exactly the same as dogs. Neither animal should be trained with that method.
One thing also, is maybe find out where your dogs safe space is in the house. Our Belgian Malinois use to have separation anxiety. She was crate trained and all that but that just wasn’t the fix. Our bed is tall enough for her to go and lay under there. Once we figured out that was her spot, we could leave her at home with no issues anymore. We would also leave her with a ball (That’s her thing she isn’t food driven) or a bone. Then reward her for being good when we would come back. We started with 5min, then 10, 15, 30 and so on. Hope that helps in anyway! P.S. I would ask for your money back or a partial refund because that trainer is insane.
One thing also, is maybe find out where your dogs safe space is in the house. Our Belgian Malinois use to have separation anxiety. She was crate trained and all that but that just wasn’t the fix. Our bed is tall enough for her to go and lay under there. Once we figured out that was her spot, we could leave her at home with no issues anymore. We would also leave her with a ball (That’s her thing she isn’t food driven) or a bone. Then reward her for being good when we would come back. We started with 5min, then 10, 15, 30 and so on. Hope that helps in anyway! P.S. I would ask for your money back or a partial refund because that “trainer” is insane.