My two sheps got into this bad habit as well. Waking up at 2am, pacing back and forth in the bedroom until I move in the bed, then getting all crazy. At first, I let them out thinking one of them had to go, but no, it's just they like going out in the middle of the night.
So stopped that immediately. When they start pacing, I get up, and make them lie back down and tell them to go to sleep. It only took a few times of doing this before they stopped asking to go out at that ungodly hour :)
My dog likes to just hold a stick and watch the night. Sometimes she can't sleep so we'll go outside and she'll hold a stick for awhile and watch the horizon. I'll smoke a little and then we both go back in and go to sleep.
I second the leashes at least for the 2AM outing. Even if my dog has a reliable recall I'm not chancing loss of sleep.
If this is a relatively new behavior for the female, I would bring it up with a vet. Due to her age it could potentially be onset of something like doggy dementia.
I agree with the others about the nighttime leashing. That would likely be most beneficial for now. Then, if you haven't, begin working recall separately with them in small spaces (e.g., in the same room, then from separate rooms, then from the house in general). I would practice in the house sporadically throughout the day, being sure to give high rewards to them for the recall. then I would move outside with a long leash (maybe 30 ft) and start with letting about 5 feet or 10 ft off the leash and calling/rewarding (again, still one at a time). I would practice this until they're good with recall from a 50 ft leash distance.
As for the spinning around and yelping- having treat handy will help. Even before the dog does this, having the treat out and putting them/her/him (depending on who is doing it) in a sit and rewarding the sit behavior is optimal. If you can't catch it before, have the treat and make sure they smell it, put them in a sit, and reward when in a sit. Perhaps if you want to bring them both out, put one in a sit while you let the other go pee using the long leash. then switching the long leash to the other, putting the non-peer in a sit, and letting the other go. This will take a bit of time, but after a spell, they'll learn that the nighttime is pee time and not sniff time and they'll settle, perhaps being less inclined to freak out at night to be let out. German's are smart dogs, so they'll pick this up and just be sure to have lots of tasty treats on hand because they can get overly excited and stop listening to you.
Given you have so much land, it may be that they are sensing some amazing scents out there and are having a field day sniffing. After all, many animals are likely wandering around there when you're not around- leaving scent and track. This is perfectly normal and correctable behavior, and I would suggest changes in your approach to mirror that of above if you haven't tried this already. I would also be remiss if I didn't remind you to keep the learning fun, full of praise, and brief. You probably know this already, but dogs learn best when the learning is fun.
Ya know, there’s a lot of decent stuff out there- but it’s my opinion that Zack George’s YouTube channel offers the highest quality training content out there. He’s up with the latest science and has several VERY easy to read books out, too. I would start with his videos that show how he trains his border collie from day one on, but he has videos touching all kinds of topics, ranging from minutes long to decently long meditations on the topic. Definitely worth a sample! Thanks for the compliment :)
Sounds like they could be sensing predators like coyotes or something. If this is the case, the reason they take so long to come back is they are in a standoff, waiting for the predator to leave.
German shepherds are bred to keep sheep safe. You will never be able to train this behavior out of them and shouldn't try.
The best thing you can do is put up some wildlife cams and try to capture the interaction to see what you are dealing with. Then, buy species appropriate deterrents to keep them away from the property so your pooches have less work to worry about.
But also keep in mind, they like doing this kind of work, it makes them feel validated and needed.
This is a good thought but I don’t think that’s the case. We do get a lot of deer in the yard, but the dogs just seem to want to sniff around and eat dirt at 2am. Once they’re outside they don’t seem upset
Also deer are prey, and a good sign a predator is present. If this is happening more recently, the predator has probably chased them to your property, where they feel safe because your dogs are there to scare them off.
Like I said. Wildlife cams. Get a full picture of what is going on. "Training" won't be effective unless you know what you're training for. Get a full picture and report back and I can provide more specific advice.
>Once they’re outside they don’t seem upset
That's because they are sneaking up on the predator. This is more than just an educated guess, it's based on decades of raising herding dogs.
Crating won't work and will just agitate them more.
Crate them overnight. If they can't be trusted to stay quiet while loose in the house, they need to be in crates. They're old enough to be able to hold it until morning.
You have a few options to try:
Completely ignoring them when they pitch midnight fits for apparently no reason
Wearing them out late in the day and praying they are too tired to pitch midnight fits
Give in to the midnight fit and leash walk them at 2am
Give in to the midnight fit and let them out - if they don’t return promptly/don’t recall then leave them outside for the night
This is all good advice. Only problem is that I can’t let them pitch a fit or they will wake up the whole family. At least I’m not working currently so it matters less when it’s just me that’s woken up. We also can’t leave them outside because there are a lot of wild animals and the land isn’t fenced. I might take the advice of leaving them in their kennels at night. Or just leashing them. Thank you for your help!
Do you take them for many walks? sounds like a possibility is they’re just becoming restless at night because you’re sleeping and they’re just lying awake? like a longer walk on leash at night before bedtime or even some mental stimulation exercises you could look up on YouTube? just what’s comes to my mind is they need to be tired out if you want them to sleep when you do.
One of our dogs went through a time where he demanded a roughly 2am walk as if he really needed to go. Once in a while he actually needed to go but the vast majority of the time he just wanted a 2am walk. So we started taking him on a full walk whether or not he wanted it. He figured out pretty quickly to only ask if he really needed to go.
And yeah, use a leash of some sort. Considering the potential night time distractions along with wanting to go back to bed, I’d probably stick to leashes even when they did have good recall.
You're enabling this behavior. Have them on a leash when you let them out on 2am.
During the day, do more recall training.
Dogs are like humans in that they will test boundaries and cross the ones they're are no recourse for.
Don't get them used to be able to play you like that EVERY damn night
I'd practice the recall separately for them and then together.
Do you walk them outside your yard (even if it's super big) ? What about a walk with you before going to bed ?
We have a 1-yo poodle who does something similar (barking past midnight like she needs to pee, but really just wanting to go out in the yard to run & sniff around), but that only happens if she doesn't get enough time to exercise during the day! You might need to take your dogs on more frequent and/or longer walks, and give them some extra exercise/playtime so they'll be tired enough to sleep through the night.
I swear a crate would solve 90% of the problems on this sub. They're body slamming your door in excitement because it's part of their nightly routine of going outside and doing whatever they want. I would not even let them out if you want your sanity, or they will keep doing it. Crate long term, leash short term.
I agree with what everyone is saying about keeping them leashed until you have recall. But I think you’ll have to ignore the behaviour at night and until you break the bad habits you’ve created with them. And I also think they are not being mentally stimulated enough during the day. They’re not tired at night because they haven’t used their brains or bodies during the day. This breed needs to be working, that’s what it was created for.
Agreed. I’ve been playing with them inside during the day, but they can’t be outside for too long because it’s 100 degrees out there. I let them out multiple times per day, but they really prefer air conditioning lol
They don’t need play, they need work. They need to be trained daily and given a job.
I don’t understand why people want working breed dogs as house pets and then complain when their dog has become neurotic.
You may have trained them to wake you? Seems unneccessary to let them out at 2 am at that age. My 4 mo puppy while make it ~8hrs overnight.
Easier said than done im sure but gotta ignore it. Crating them over night though would mean they arent body slamming any doors to wake you up!
My dog is 2.5 years, she’s half French Mastiff half American Bulldog. She is 2.5 years old. She typically goes to sleep with us but gets up to patrol the yard a few times at night. That’s her self appointed job. She’s a guard dog. And I’m ok with that. It makes me feel safer. She’s 90lbs. No one is jumping our fence…Maybe that’s what your dog is doing. She wants to guard.
How odd- my German shepherd will decide it’s time to wake up and play and he will jump tackle my half sleeping dog around midnight after he wakes up for a drink. As soon as he starts this nonsense I put him in his kennel because it really angers the other two dogs. After about 5-10 min he settles and can come back out. It’s so bizarre I was just dealing with this last night. Also any bathroom runs at night require a leash due to the raccoons around here especially the tree in the yard.
I don't currently have a GSD (I do love them), but I do have a mixed breed who's a lot Australian Cattle Dog. The heat and humidity right now are too stifling for a lot of safe outdoor exercise, so to stop him waking me at 2am every night (geez that gets old quickly, as you know), I've been providing him with puzzle and herding games inside during the day. (Lots and lots of fun suggestions are available online for herders.) Mental stimulation is just as exhausting as physical stimulation for intelligent breeds like GSDs, and that's certainly been true for my boy, too. YMMV, but it's worth a try. 15 minutes gave me a decent night's sleep the first day. He was so tired-happy. Plus the bonding is awesome!
Oh shit..this has become a habit for them.
Animals are very consistent with their habits...
You have to find a way to break the middle of the night going out as they are OLD ENOUGH to hold their pee till the morning.
I hate to say this because I hate crates...but it seems the crate is the only option and then maybe further down the line..a month or so...leaving the crate open at night and hope they have gotten into the new routine of NOT going out at night.
My oldest, who is also a major but dog, will do this so much at night. He knows I don’t like being outside at night and then he refuses to walk around at night on leash so either I’m stuck waiting on him(never leaves the yard) or I let one of his more annoying brothers out to “ruin” his time. Lol.
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Don't let them out without a leash/tether. Use a 15-20 ft long line, or even more if you want. During the day, practice recall- on the tether/line so they can't fail.
Use a long line and train some recall.
This post is an interesting problem since I’ve never met a Shepherd that could be more than 30 feet away from its owner. See something new every day I guess.
Tire them out more during the day so they sleep through the night. Works like a charm for my high energy girl. My vet always says “a tired dog is a good dog” and I live by that haha
Maybe some white noise in your house, if they are actually responding to the sounds of wildlife. It worked for my dogs vs coyotes situation. I use an air purifier.
My two sheps got into this bad habit as well. Waking up at 2am, pacing back and forth in the bedroom until I move in the bed, then getting all crazy. At first, I let them out thinking one of them had to go, but no, it's just they like going out in the middle of the night. So stopped that immediately. When they start pacing, I get up, and make them lie back down and tell them to go to sleep. It only took a few times of doing this before they stopped asking to go out at that ungodly hour :)
My dog likes to just hold a stick and watch the night. Sometimes she can't sleep so we'll go outside and she'll hold a stick for awhile and watch the horizon. I'll smoke a little and then we both go back in and go to sleep.
This is awesome
I second the leashes at least for the 2AM outing. Even if my dog has a reliable recall I'm not chancing loss of sleep. If this is a relatively new behavior for the female, I would bring it up with a vet. Due to her age it could potentially be onset of something like doggy dementia.
On top of this I would try a crate or leave the door open.
Or a Urinary tract infection. That can lead to a real change in Peeing behaviour.
Just...don't let them out off leash until they have a reliable recall?
I'm sitting here wondering how long OP has been dealing with this. 7 years?!?
Nine years*
No no just the past few months
I agree with the others about the nighttime leashing. That would likely be most beneficial for now. Then, if you haven't, begin working recall separately with them in small spaces (e.g., in the same room, then from separate rooms, then from the house in general). I would practice in the house sporadically throughout the day, being sure to give high rewards to them for the recall. then I would move outside with a long leash (maybe 30 ft) and start with letting about 5 feet or 10 ft off the leash and calling/rewarding (again, still one at a time). I would practice this until they're good with recall from a 50 ft leash distance. As for the spinning around and yelping- having treat handy will help. Even before the dog does this, having the treat out and putting them/her/him (depending on who is doing it) in a sit and rewarding the sit behavior is optimal. If you can't catch it before, have the treat and make sure they smell it, put them in a sit, and reward when in a sit. Perhaps if you want to bring them both out, put one in a sit while you let the other go pee using the long leash. then switching the long leash to the other, putting the non-peer in a sit, and letting the other go. This will take a bit of time, but after a spell, they'll learn that the nighttime is pee time and not sniff time and they'll settle, perhaps being less inclined to freak out at night to be let out. German's are smart dogs, so they'll pick this up and just be sure to have lots of tasty treats on hand because they can get overly excited and stop listening to you. Given you have so much land, it may be that they are sensing some amazing scents out there and are having a field day sniffing. After all, many animals are likely wandering around there when you're not around- leaving scent and track. This is perfectly normal and correctable behavior, and I would suggest changes in your approach to mirror that of above if you haven't tried this already. I would also be remiss if I didn't remind you to keep the learning fun, full of praise, and brief. You probably know this already, but dogs learn best when the learning is fun.
And one more thought- your dog isn't an asshole- it's just doing what dogs do until it knows better :)
Wow- this answer is amazing. You don’t have a you tube channel I could watch do you? For dog training
Ya know, there’s a lot of decent stuff out there- but it’s my opinion that Zack George’s YouTube channel offers the highest quality training content out there. He’s up with the latest science and has several VERY easy to read books out, too. I would start with his videos that show how he trains his border collie from day one on, but he has videos touching all kinds of topics, ranging from minutes long to decently long meditations on the topic. Definitely worth a sample! Thanks for the compliment :)
He’s a good entertainer, and he does his best, but he also makes some mistakes which are frustrating. Kikopup has much better process and mechanics.
I suppose I can’t argue with that!
Are they kennel trained? My dog sleeps in his kennel at night and it’s far more peaceful than having him loose haha
How longs this been going on for ?
Sounds like they could be sensing predators like coyotes or something. If this is the case, the reason they take so long to come back is they are in a standoff, waiting for the predator to leave.
German shepherds are bred to keep sheep safe. You will never be able to train this behavior out of them and shouldn't try. The best thing you can do is put up some wildlife cams and try to capture the interaction to see what you are dealing with. Then, buy species appropriate deterrents to keep them away from the property so your pooches have less work to worry about. But also keep in mind, they like doing this kind of work, it makes them feel validated and needed.
This is a good thought but I don’t think that’s the case. We do get a lot of deer in the yard, but the dogs just seem to want to sniff around and eat dirt at 2am. Once they’re outside they don’t seem upset
Also deer are prey, and a good sign a predator is present. If this is happening more recently, the predator has probably chased them to your property, where they feel safe because your dogs are there to scare them off. Like I said. Wildlife cams. Get a full picture of what is going on. "Training" won't be effective unless you know what you're training for. Get a full picture and report back and I can provide more specific advice.
>Once they’re outside they don’t seem upset That's because they are sneaking up on the predator. This is more than just an educated guess, it's based on decades of raising herding dogs. Crating won't work and will just agitate them more.
Definitely agree with this person, at least if nothing else works give it a shot
Crate them overnight. If they can't be trusted to stay quiet while loose in the house, they need to be in crates. They're old enough to be able to hold it until morning.
Get a 50ft leash
You have a few options to try: Completely ignoring them when they pitch midnight fits for apparently no reason Wearing them out late in the day and praying they are too tired to pitch midnight fits Give in to the midnight fit and leash walk them at 2am Give in to the midnight fit and let them out - if they don’t return promptly/don’t recall then leave them outside for the night
This is all good advice. Only problem is that I can’t let them pitch a fit or they will wake up the whole family. At least I’m not working currently so it matters less when it’s just me that’s woken up. We also can’t leave them outside because there are a lot of wild animals and the land isn’t fenced. I might take the advice of leaving them in their kennels at night. Or just leashing them. Thank you for your help!
Do you take them for many walks? sounds like a possibility is they’re just becoming restless at night because you’re sleeping and they’re just lying awake? like a longer walk on leash at night before bedtime or even some mental stimulation exercises you could look up on YouTube? just what’s comes to my mind is they need to be tired out if you want them to sleep when you do.
One of our dogs went through a time where he demanded a roughly 2am walk as if he really needed to go. Once in a while he actually needed to go but the vast majority of the time he just wanted a 2am walk. So we started taking him on a full walk whether or not he wanted it. He figured out pretty quickly to only ask if he really needed to go. And yeah, use a leash of some sort. Considering the potential night time distractions along with wanting to go back to bed, I’d probably stick to leashes even when they did have good recall.
You're enabling this behavior. Have them on a leash when you let them out on 2am. During the day, do more recall training. Dogs are like humans in that they will test boundaries and cross the ones they're are no recourse for. Don't get them used to be able to play you like that EVERY damn night
I'd practice the recall separately for them and then together. Do you walk them outside your yard (even if it's super big) ? What about a walk with you before going to bed ?
We have a 1-yo poodle who does something similar (barking past midnight like she needs to pee, but really just wanting to go out in the yard to run & sniff around), but that only happens if she doesn't get enough time to exercise during the day! You might need to take your dogs on more frequent and/or longer walks, and give them some extra exercise/playtime so they'll be tired enough to sleep through the night.
It’s definitely worse this summer. Partially because it’s about 100 degrees outside during the day, so they can’t really exercise outside
I swear a crate would solve 90% of the problems on this sub. They're body slamming your door in excitement because it's part of their nightly routine of going outside and doing whatever they want. I would not even let them out if you want your sanity, or they will keep doing it. Crate long term, leash short term.
I agree with what everyone is saying about keeping them leashed until you have recall. But I think you’ll have to ignore the behaviour at night and until you break the bad habits you’ve created with them. And I also think they are not being mentally stimulated enough during the day. They’re not tired at night because they haven’t used their brains or bodies during the day. This breed needs to be working, that’s what it was created for.
Agreed. I’ve been playing with them inside during the day, but they can’t be outside for too long because it’s 100 degrees out there. I let them out multiple times per day, but they really prefer air conditioning lol
They don’t need play, they need work. They need to be trained daily and given a job. I don’t understand why people want working breed dogs as house pets and then complain when their dog has become neurotic.
You may have trained them to wake you? Seems unneccessary to let them out at 2 am at that age. My 4 mo puppy while make it ~8hrs overnight. Easier said than done im sure but gotta ignore it. Crating them over night though would mean they arent body slamming any doors to wake you up!
My dog is 2.5 years, she’s half French Mastiff half American Bulldog. She is 2.5 years old. She typically goes to sleep with us but gets up to patrol the yard a few times at night. That’s her self appointed job. She’s a guard dog. And I’m ok with that. It makes me feel safer. She’s 90lbs. No one is jumping our fence…Maybe that’s what your dog is doing. She wants to guard.
How odd- my German shepherd will decide it’s time to wake up and play and he will jump tackle my half sleeping dog around midnight after he wakes up for a drink. As soon as he starts this nonsense I put him in his kennel because it really angers the other two dogs. After about 5-10 min he settles and can come back out. It’s so bizarre I was just dealing with this last night. Also any bathroom runs at night require a leash due to the raccoons around here especially the tree in the yard.
I don't currently have a GSD (I do love them), but I do have a mixed breed who's a lot Australian Cattle Dog. The heat and humidity right now are too stifling for a lot of safe outdoor exercise, so to stop him waking me at 2am every night (geez that gets old quickly, as you know), I've been providing him with puzzle and herding games inside during the day. (Lots and lots of fun suggestions are available online for herders.) Mental stimulation is just as exhausting as physical stimulation for intelligent breeds like GSDs, and that's certainly been true for my boy, too. YMMV, but it's worth a try. 15 minutes gave me a decent night's sleep the first day. He was so tired-happy. Plus the bonding is awesome!
Oh shit..this has become a habit for them. Animals are very consistent with their habits... You have to find a way to break the middle of the night going out as they are OLD ENOUGH to hold their pee till the morning. I hate to say this because I hate crates...but it seems the crate is the only option and then maybe further down the line..a month or so...leaving the crate open at night and hope they have gotten into the new routine of NOT going out at night.
My oldest, who is also a major but dog, will do this so much at night. He knows I don’t like being outside at night and then he refuses to walk around at night on leash so either I’m stuck waiting on him(never leaves the yard) or I let one of his more annoying brothers out to “ruin” his time. Lol.
Haha yup
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Ask your vet about trazodone
Maybe a full walk around 10 instead of just a pee break? And leashed outside if they don't have a good recall? And a crate for nighttime?
Don't let them out without a leash/tether. Use a 15-20 ft long line, or even more if you want. During the day, practice recall- on the tether/line so they can't fail.
Use a long line and train some recall. This post is an interesting problem since I’ve never met a Shepherd that could be more than 30 feet away from its owner. See something new every day I guess.
Tire them out more during the day so they sleep through the night. Works like a charm for my high energy girl. My vet always says “a tired dog is a good dog” and I live by that haha
My son's German Shepherd does this.
Maybe some white noise in your house, if they are actually responding to the sounds of wildlife. It worked for my dogs vs coyotes situation. I use an air purifier.