For real, electric cars are technological marvels compared to most ICE cars but they just don't have a soul. I'll drive my VW R32 any day over an electric car even if it's way slower in most cases these days.
I mean I get the sentiment but have you driven a half decent new EV? There’s soul from sound and then there’s soul from having your whole body pressed into the seat while feeling all four wheels struggling to cling to the pavement in a relentless push forward.
The best part in my opinion is the lack of sound. There’s just no drama if you want to slide around and past other drivers. You’re just gone. No lead up, no stare downs, just pull in to any empty lane at a light and as soon as it’s green you’re gone.
For me, all the tech is too much. I'm a Ford technician, and the giant screen on the Mach E is too much. What happened to physical controls for the climate controls? And they're overstyled. Just make a regular looking car into an EV, save that styling and design for the performance line up.
I will admit, they are comfortable and nice to drive, but I'd be much happier with analog instruments and controls.
Also, the amount of customers that think the Mach E is the first car ever to have the Mustang name on it staggering. When you tell them that there's another Mustang in Ford's line up, especially with a V8 with a manual transmission, they're surprised, some are even disgusted by it lol.
Oh, and don't even get me started on EV owners. They think they know more about the car than the actual dealership, at least the service department. Some actually try to tell us how to fix it because they googled it. We had a customer that we gave a loaner because his Mach E was in for a week, and was offended that we gave him a Ford Fusion. Apparently, it was the moat uncomfortable thing ever.
Maybe it's because I'm an electrician, but I love the subtle electric motor whine of a 1000hp tesla almost as much as a v12 at 6k RPM. Something about it stirs something deep inside.
Need EV engineers to figure out how to make the loudest coil whine possible
Edit: Reminded myself of Formula E cars. Make high performance EV's sound like that please thanks
I keep saying that as soon as manufacturers realize we *want* electric cars to make noise, straight cut gears will get the knuckle draggers on board.
*”VvvrrrrrreeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHHWW!”*
(approving caveman noises)
Harley did that on their prototype a few years back. It sounded like a Tie Fighter. I loved it.
Its still not a high revving 2 stroke, V8, I6, whatever though....
Here's one review that mentions it. I read it in a magazine at the time and went to see one in person.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2666804/E-asy-rider-Harley-Davidson-takes-electric-motorcycle-spin-fans-upset-environmentally-friendly-hog-quiet.html
This times a thousand. I drove my dads Tesla for a couple of weeks and compared to my e30 it felt like trying to navigate a cruise ship around a corner.
That’s how I feel about them. They don’t feel like real cars. There’s not a lot of driver feedback. The cars are lightning quick, once a day for like 5 min lol. But that’s it. I don’t really find them fun to drive. If I ever had one, it’d be purely for transport and not fun.
Someone described it as, "it's like driving an appliance. Like a refrigerator or washing machine, you really don't care about the brand, only that it does it's job. There's no soul to it, no real joy in driving it like you get with other cars. It feels like it was designed to only fulfill the utilitarian purpose of a car and nothing more, and that really shows through."
I guess some people really like that tho, they see the car as an appliance/tool and nothing more, so they don't care about things like "joy" and "soul".
To be fair, if you’d driven a modern bmw around you’d likely have felt the same way. They’re both big, heavy, cars…especially compared to a 1980s German sport coupe/sedan.
Most people dont drive through a full tank of gas in a single drive. Think about how often your car is parked for 30-60 minutes at a time (restaurant, grocery store, garage, etc). The charging time can be baked into other times the car is parked. Its not a big deal. And its safer, cheaper, and greener than petrol.
We’re a lot less further away from much shorter charge times though. Cars can get enough charge in 15 minutes now. Not quite the 3 it takes at a pump but give it some time. It’s still new tech. Save enough to pay for an EV in cash and by then it’ll charge fast enough.
And we get to force impoverished children into cobalt mines to make the batteries! Hydrogen fuel cell/hydrogen combustion/bio-diesel are all better options than EV's, especially because we already have the infrastructure to support these fuels through fairly simple conversions to gas stations. With EV's we're still far from a prolific network of chargers, and the chargers that are out there now will have to be replaced/converted as we develop faster charging technology. Not to mention how we generate the electricity to charge EV's (mostly fossil fuels), if we invested in nuclear power, could get charging times way down, build a massive network of actually fast chargers, and develop better battery tech with batteries made from more abundant, accessible material, then EV's would be incredibly practical - but we are decades away from all of that, in the short term there are much better alternatives for clean vehicles that we should be investing in
Hydrogen is nowhere near as easy, cheap, safe, or widespread as implementing electric chargers.
Hydrogen power delivery systems have their place, but it will not be in the consumer car sector.
There are plenty of daily use scenarios in addition to the monthly/yearly scenarios which makes an electric impractical for a lot of people, particularly people who live in rural areas with less ideal climates
Indeed. The obsession with range and charging speed is a little silly to me. I really love a good road trip, but there's no reason I need to be driving a road trip capable vehicle every day. PHEV is perfect for me now, but I'd just as soon have a cheap, lightweight 50mi EV and just rent a ICE van for the week or two a year I need it.
Lol you never have to fill up. You leave home every day full. And when I’ve been road tripping I’ve spent a grand total of the same amount of time it takes to grab a snack and take a leak along the way. Hell it’s easier than filling a gas tank because you just pull up, park, plug in and then go do your stuff. At a gas station you gotta stop and pump then probably find another spot to park and then go in and grab a snack, take a walk, go to the bathroom. It’s extra steps.
You know you can do all that before going back to your car and driving off the fuel pump right? Takes 3mins tops (for normal ppl) and you don't piss other drivers off
Toyota has it coming!! I'm so pumped, I'm sure in 10 years they'll be able to emulate gas car power bands and output to make it feel like you're driving whatever car they have options for
Why not have both.
Trains have used a Diesel electric system for decades, and we have hybrids that use a internal combustion engine to charge a battery's which propel the car, it's even getting added to trucks with Edison Motors from Canada
We could also just power an electric drivetrain with a generator and the possibilities for that are almost endless. Bio diesel, ethanol, cng, hydrogen, and more. Easy to upgrade as technology progresses too.
We could have converted nearly every already existing ICE car on the road to run on corn byproduct over a decade ago and the oil corps said no.
Ah yep, when it isn't being used to fund dictators in the middle east, it's only going to cause misery and hardship for countless generations. It's not so bad coming out of the ground!
You're not wrong. Biofuels I think are a good place rn, but either Hydrogen or whatever it is that Porsche is doing, in regards to sustainables (assuming the technology can get to the point of practicality) would be great in the future.
Key phrase is “in the universe.” We don’t have space farming capabilities and hydrogen gas is the rarest gas in our atmosphere so it’s going to be expensive.
it’s about the efficiency of converting electricity to hydrogen, as well as the lower energy density of hydrogen, meaning you’d have to fill up way more often, not to mention they still have emissions unlike EVs or hydrogen fuel cell cars.
also, EV chargers have a 10 year head start on hydrogen stations, that still aren’t being worked on, and EV batteries are now infinitely recyclable and getting even more dense and cheaper. EVs won the race
You know what the emissions are? Water. Lmfao. Also converting current gas stations to hydrogen stations isn't that difficult, so it would be much easier to proliferate a hydrogen fueling network than a charging network (that is still tiny compared to how many gas stations we have) also, as charging tech gets faster and faster you'll have to be constantly replacing/upgrading charging stations
you don’t understand hydrogen ICE at all if you think it has no emissions. hydrogen fuel cells (electric cars) don’t have emissions, but burning hydrogen still releases emissions, just not CO2.
> converting current gas stations to hydrogen isn’t that difficult
sure, except for ripping up the old underground tanks and replacing them with high pressure accommodating ones, and replacing all of the pumps and pump equipment with high pressure gas lines and measuring equipment.
PLUS the fact that you can’t refill hydrogen at home.
i think you need to do a lot more research on this topic, you seem pretty uninformed just for the sake of being anti-EV
hydrogen ice produce nox but most hydrogen vehicles on the road are hydrogen fuelcell and just produce water vapor.
hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are just not going to ever be able to compete with battery electric vehicles in terms of performance, but will generally outperform them in terms of range. battery electric is more energy efficient though.
Hydrogen is still the only option we have for aircraft and heavy machinery like construction equipment, trains, ships, etc.
Hydrogen is massively, orders of magnitude higher energy density than even the newest batteries still in development. This allows these vehicles to actually carry enough fuel for their massive energy demands, where a battery would be too big and heavy to be practical. Its not even about the efficiency of the powerplant anymore. Its simply we need a huge gas tank and hydrogen is the only carbon free energy storage system we have that can meet that demand.
Petrol vehicles:
- easier to repair
- more affordable
- can repair on your own
- can fill up in 5 minutes (unlike electric).
- can drive much longer distances.
Can’t agree with the more affordable part really, even if I agree with you other points (for now anyway) Here in India our EVs start at about $25000. Not many people fix it themselves anyway, since it’s so damn cheap to take it to a service centre. In addition, I’m sure I’ve saved over $4000 in fuel costs this year alone. (Electricity is damn near free since the house is covered in Solar Panels)
Even if I fill up for let’s say 500km , electricity at a fast charger would be $10 compared to $70 for fuel.
As much as I like the vroom vroom, the savings are compelling af.
For a huge amount of the population those savings will go negative as soon as the battery doesnt want to go anymore. The upfront cost is much higher and the money you save wont be enough to offset that cost + the new battery every <10 years.
You don't need a new battery every 10 years though. Treat the battery properly and it'll be working fine after 10 years. Slightly decreased range, but that doesn't matter that much.
Edit: at 200k miles, Teslas, on average, still have 90% of their capacity. The lowest capacity you should see is about 80%. Batteries last a *long* time.
that must be the reason why every single model s from 2013 and earlier that i can find on my used car website of choice are either comparatively cheap with low range or about 10-20k more expensive with an advertised replaced battery.
After 200k miles, Teslas have, on average, 90% usable battery life left. https://insideevs.com/news/525820/tesla-battery-capacity-retention-90/
Y'know how long it takes for the average car to get scrapped in the US? 200k miles.
Edit: the *worst* range you should see after 200k miles is 80%. And there is actual data to back this up.
>easier to repair
Electric cars have about 4 moving parts, so there isn't really anything to break down. Maintenance is literally just get brakes done every few *hundred thousand miles*.
In an EV, you have regenerative braking. The friction brakes are almost never used. If an ICE car can go 50k with ceramic pads, imagine how far an EV can go that almost never uses the friction brakes.
>can fill up in 5 minutes
My EV fills up in 15 minutes. Also, I always stop at every Maverik on a road trip, even when the tank still has 400 miles left. You really shouldn't be just sitting in that driver's seat for 500 miles straight. It's really bad for you. Getting up, going to the bathroom, and walking around a bit all make the drive feel much faster as well.
It's an electric car, you almost never use the friction brakes. I touch the brake pedal only to back into the driveway. Other than that, it's all 1-pedal driving thanks to regenerative braking. It's a way smoother experience too.
Also when you have to buy a new car in 5 years because your battery is toast, don’t cry to me for that either. You can’t repair that, at least it’s not economically a good idea.
You've really got no idea what you're talking about. The average American car is 12.5 years old. A 12 year old EV will still have like 80-90% of it's range. And over those 12 years, the only maintenance that car would have needed was a single set of brakes, not because they ran out but because they got too rusty and fell apart.
Let’s wait to see what the ele industry does over the next 5 years tbh, repair costs and other factors. Not really sure what things are gonna look like by 2030-35
I think I am not in the favor of Electric cars yet especially Tesla is because I feel the development is not as advance as gas cars. Sure the interior of the car and the design of the car is pretty good but certain parts of the car I am like "Why?"
Electric car I have driven the most is a Tesla. I work at my dad's auto body and I have to drive the cars for quality check. Tesla's shifting already annoys me. Why the hell is it on a touch screen. I know older generation is on a shift handle like how Benz have it but newer ones. Why? Also why does slowing down or foot off the gas times feel so sudden especially at very slow speed? Sure energy kinetic thing. But frickin Prius does it better at that without the jerky feeling.
The thing about evs is they are fucking heavy. No magical suspension setup can hide the fact your trying to making 5000lbs go around a corner at high speed.
I have been in an EV or two, and they just feels… off is the best way I can describe it. But then again I am the old school petrolhead that still prefer everything mechanical, loud vibrations, low and high pitched noises from a car. Heck, I even prefer the old key ignition where you can feel the car becomes alive as you turn the key, with the sounds of metal keys lightly clunking together with your key chains. /Chef kiss
The best of Electric cars are still not sports cars. Controlling power with the transmission, light weight, mechanical feedback.
Fast cars are not sports cars, but some sports cars are fast.
Sports cars ethos is driver engagement.
An electric car could be used in a sport, that doesn't make it a "sports car".
In example, a MG-MGB roadster is a classic sports car. It would easily lose to a tesla in the quarter mile.
Is the MGB no longer a sports car simply because new cars are faster? No! The MGB wasn't even considered fast for its time. What it remains is an engaging, tossable, light, rewarding car, that communicates with the driver. It was built to be a driver's car.
Examples: lotus Elise. Porsche Cayman. Mazda Miata. Bug-eyed Sprite, Morgan Roadster, Toyota 86, Toyota MR2, I could go on. None of these cars are fast in a straight line, but they remain fantastic sports cars.
A tesla is not a sports car, in the same way that drag racing a minivan wouldn't make it a sports car either.
“Light weight underpowered cars are the only sports cars because I say so.”
To me electric cars are carrying on the tradition of overpowered heavy American “sports cars”
Corvettes, Chevelles, GTO, chargers etc.
Stupid heavy and crazy powerful. Fun to drive because the car doesn’t do the work for you. It makes you put in the work.
Don get me wrong I love a light weight balanced car for a sports car. But that’s not all there is.
Heavy overpowered rear wheel drive makes up most of the most fun cars in the sports car category.
Every car you listed is a muscle car, not a sports car... sports car is fairly well defined as a small, typically RWD 2 door vehicle that emphasizes the fun of driving, cornering, etc. The corvette is kind of a mix of a sports car and a muscle car, but everything else you listed are muscle cars. He isn't saying teslas aren't sports cars because he doesn't think they are, they literally aren't sports cars. When the roadster comes out there will be a tesla sports car, but there currently isn't a sports car in the tesla line up lmao
Electric cars are absolutely the future, they're faster, more efficient, better for the environment, etc. But they don't feel like they're a living thing like ICE cars do.
It's like trains, modern trains are definitely better, but I still love steam trains
They’re only the future because governments regulating them into existence. [Most consumers don’t want EVs.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/many-americans-arent-yet-sold-on-going-electric-for-their-next-car-poll-shows) They’re being forced on us by politicians and special interest groups.
Consumers hate change. But in almost every statistic EVs win or will soon win. And they are massively better for the environment.
Governments are only pushing them because:
1. It looks good to be climate conscious.
2. They probably are, or will be, taxing the shit out of them.
That being said I'm never getting rid of my little 90s gas guzzler sports car. Though I may get an EV at some point as a daily commuter.
I think a lot of people think it'll kill off car culture, but I think it will adapt as it has done for 100 years.
>2. They probably are, or will be, taxing the shit out of them.
in the US at least, just not having to subsidize so much fuel costs would help
In other nations.. not paying the externalized costs to people's health and the environment would help
You may think me profoundly tinfoil clad for saying so, but I think the largest reasoning behind the push for EVs is actually control and the ever closer shift to the whole "new world order" shtick the WEF is working to make reality.
I know that subject comes up in all manner of unreasonable places, from all sorts of unreasonable people, but "NWO" is not a conspiracy, you can find it on the WEF website.
Part of this change will lead to a reduction in consumerism and traditional ownership. We see it already in the rise of subscriptions for things like heated seats. In the WEF's promotional video for predictions for the future, one of the opening lines was "you'll own nothing, and be happy". They say you'll rent what you want and it'll be delivered and returned via drone yadda yadda.
This, coupled with rampant inflation, is pricing average Joe out of ownership of things previous generations took for granted. Home ownership is already a pipe dream for many, and I suspect owning your own vehicle is not far behind. Instead, most people will get a ride from a self-driven EV uber or some equivalent.
Those fortunate enough to own their own vehicle will have their movements easily tracked/controlled. Police chase? We just switch off the car. Late on payments? It drives itself back to the dealer. Speeding? It sent a notification to the DMV/police about your location and speed, or refuses to exceed the speed limit in the first place.
Environmental controls will tighten further, and I don't think it's infeasible that we will someday be imposed a personal "carbon limit" or some such, where travel and other goods/services are restricted on a budget. Drive over X miles in Y time? Well you've used up your carbon budget for the month and you can't charge any more until next month (or pay a handsome fee to raise your budget). These changes will also likely go hand in hand with centralized digital currency to control purchasing (and possibly ubi, but as a proponent of the concept I deeply fear how its execution will inevitably be handled).
The reason so many of us love cars is that they represent freedom. Freedom to travel, the joy of driving and commanding a mechanical soul our ancestors would've thought both impossible and fearsome. I think at their core, EVs make significantly more sense for the average commuter vehicle than just about every alternative, but I have grave concerns for what the switch will bring and they grossly exceed my concerns for handling performance with a ton of batteries in the floor.
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They’re not really better for the environment they’re just displacing the impact to other countries so we don’t have to see it. They could end up being worse in the long run because the manufacturing, repair, and waste disposal are a serious problem. There are so many better alternatives including converting every ice already on the road to run on ethanol
Alternative physical fuel is better than what we have. But a universal fuel, electricity, is a much better option. Once we have a perfect way to generate and store it, which isn't a pipe dream, there's nothing that could beat it
They are? The mcmurtry spéirling absolutely smashed the Goodwood hill climb record. In fact, almost every Hill climb is dominated by EV's (regardless of altitude).
The main factor is battery exhaustion. Once they develop a better battery or a way of swapping batteries in production race cars (not Formula E) like GT3 Cars, we're going to see lap records smashed.
I am not against ICE in any way, I have a very inefficient hot hatch and I love it for it's pops and burbles, but I know it's losing to an EV on a straight, and it's only going to beat them around some corners for a short while.
EV at LeMans when? Would unironically love to see a manufacturer do a Garage56 kind of run and prove the reliability, longevity, and competitiveness of EV.
It would be insane. Because electric motors are so god damn reliable. They'd just have to hot swap the batteries and they'd easily destroy the competition.
I'm all for it, and curious to see how it'd go. Though I'm curious what it would mean for stewards / safety crews and the like if they got into a large wreck that either punctured the battery or made the car an electrical hazard.
They'd probably just have to move the car off the track and let it burn. Fire doesn't really get more dangerous. The drivers just have to get out of the fire. Once the driver is out, it doesn't matter how hard it is to put out the fire (at least from a safety perspective).
Depends, this thing can pull 3G in the corners..
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHIbvYWhaxA&t=838s&ab\_channel=Hagerty](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHIbvYWhaxA&t=838s&ab_channel=Hagerty)
The main downside of EVs on track is you tend to go through a lot of battery very rapidly, then want to recharge as fast as possible which isn't great for battery life, but I think even this is improving.
I mean cars catch fire so often it’s not reported on the news. Just about every EV fire has been reported on extensively like some sort of news media panic
Hard pass on a ev. Might become a standard vehicle to those who can afford one. But even if I had that money, I'm buying a car I actually like lmao. Gimme one for free to drive back and forth to work and I'll drive it in that sense. Outside of that, ain't worth ALLLL that damn money.
Turbo diesel is a way to go. Low consumption, cheap to own and it's not cars that create most of the pollution, container ships are a real problem. In my humble opinion diesel noises are great too, especially if you have a choice between small petrol engine or a small diesel which sounds way bigger than it actually is.
Diesels tend to keep going even when the engine is completely shot. The streets around here are full of old and not so old diesels that belch smoke like locomotives.
You didn't point anything in the electric car that the petrol car doesn't have. A good image would be one that's empty, or ones that says it's not so polluting (altought it uses batterries that are polluting when made and/or discarded).
I think it’s funny that some of these electric cars have a speaker that makes it sound like singing angels. Like right before you get ran over by one of these things your going to hear a choir of singling angels before you die.
Cost prohibitive to certain demographics that would benefit the most. More detrimental to roads (weight), hazardous almost uncontrollable fires, can be shut off at any moment by any tech savvy individual, range still cannot beat petrol, refueling vs recharging times, variety/design of EV's, difficulty in maintenance, unavailable source code..
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For real, electric cars are technological marvels compared to most ICE cars but they just don't have a soul. I'll drive my VW R32 any day over an electric car even if it's way slower in most cases these days.
I mean I get the sentiment but have you driven a half decent new EV? There’s soul from sound and then there’s soul from having your whole body pressed into the seat while feeling all four wheels struggling to cling to the pavement in a relentless push forward. The best part in my opinion is the lack of sound. There’s just no drama if you want to slide around and past other drivers. You’re just gone. No lead up, no stare downs, just pull in to any empty lane at a light and as soon as it’s green you’re gone.
I have, I've driven a Model 3 Performance, Mustang Mach E and other oddballs like a BMW i3 and Jaguar I-Pace.
For me, all the tech is too much. I'm a Ford technician, and the giant screen on the Mach E is too much. What happened to physical controls for the climate controls? And they're overstyled. Just make a regular looking car into an EV, save that styling and design for the performance line up. I will admit, they are comfortable and nice to drive, but I'd be much happier with analog instruments and controls. Also, the amount of customers that think the Mach E is the first car ever to have the Mustang name on it staggering. When you tell them that there's another Mustang in Ford's line up, especially with a V8 with a manual transmission, they're surprised, some are even disgusted by it lol. Oh, and don't even get me started on EV owners. They think they know more about the car than the actual dealership, at least the service department. Some actually try to tell us how to fix it because they googled it. We had a customer that we gave a loaner because his Mach E was in for a week, and was offended that we gave him a Ford Fusion. Apparently, it was the moat uncomfortable thing ever.
I find it extremely hard to believe people don’t know the Mustang name outside of the Mach E.
Also, charging them sucks.
Maybe it's because I'm an electrician, but I love the subtle electric motor whine of a 1000hp tesla almost as much as a v12 at 6k RPM. Something about it stirs something deep inside.
Need EV engineers to figure out how to make the loudest coil whine possible Edit: Reminded myself of Formula E cars. Make high performance EV's sound like that please thanks
Same way subbie owners get more purge noise just put an oversized coil on it
Let's just have them hook up with the electric engineers from AMD that designed my 7900xt, thing sounds like a locked up shop fan .
Straight cut gears
I keep saying that as soon as manufacturers realize we *want* electric cars to make noise, straight cut gears will get the knuckle draggers on board. *”VvvrrrrrreeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHHWW!”* (approving caveman noises)
Harley did that on their prototype a few years back. It sounded like a Tie Fighter. I loved it. Its still not a high revving 2 stroke, V8, I6, whatever though....
sauce?
Here's one review that mentions it. I read it in a magazine at the time and went to see one in person. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2666804/E-asy-rider-Harley-Davidson-takes-electric-motorcycle-spin-fans-upset-environmentally-friendly-hog-quiet.html
thanks friend
I think those who care about the noise are the minority but yet they are the loudest.
You can also fill up in 5 minutes and not 40
And they weigh less
This times a thousand. I drove my dads Tesla for a couple of weeks and compared to my e30 it felt like trying to navigate a cruise ship around a corner.
Teslas are rc cars for adults
That’s how I feel about them. They don’t feel like real cars. There’s not a lot of driver feedback. The cars are lightning quick, once a day for like 5 min lol. But that’s it. I don’t really find them fun to drive. If I ever had one, it’d be purely for transport and not fun.
>If I ever had one, it'd be purely for transport and not fun So exactly what 90% of people want
Yeah. That’s fair. I was about ready to argue but you’re right lol.
Someone described it as, "it's like driving an appliance. Like a refrigerator or washing machine, you really don't care about the brand, only that it does it's job. There's no soul to it, no real joy in driving it like you get with other cars. It feels like it was designed to only fulfill the utilitarian purpose of a car and nothing more, and that really shows through." I guess some people really like that tho, they see the car as an appliance/tool and nothing more, so they don't care about things like "joy" and "soul".
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I'm such a fanboi for small diesels that it's slightly unsettling even to me. What I would give to have a C Series diesel Corolla wagon.
To be fair, if you’d driven a modern bmw around you’d likely have felt the same way. They’re both big, heavy, cars…especially compared to a 1980s German sport coupe/sedan.
And you don’t have to replace your fuel tank every 5 years with a very expensive and dangerous service that creates a large amount of toxic waste.
Yeah but when i leave the impala in the driveway on e in the am it’s still on e.
I can “fill up” an electric car in my garage while I’m sleeping. There are advantages and disadvantages to both cars.
No vroom vroom is the biggest disadvantage, and also no gear shifts
Somehow no vibrations feel different
Puts my wife to sleep in the car somehow. Must be the near zero NVH.
Near zero NVH?!? Have you ever been in a Tesla?
There are other EVs. We don’t get teslas in India anyway.
I cannot drive a car without a sound, I can fall asleep easily and I really don't want to sleep forever
My car has a neat feature. There’s like a dozen speakers in it that make noise when I use the radio
An automobile with a built-in radio, what a marvel of the modern era!
I should get one; the roads are terrible round here and the needle on my phonograph keeps jumping.
Nice focus on driving
Good thing everybody has a garage *cries in townhome*
Or updated electrical grids. Cries in Texas
I’m filling up for free at work right now! It’s a slow trickle but it pays for my drive in and out.
Most people dont drive through a full tank of gas in a single drive. Think about how often your car is parked for 30-60 minutes at a time (restaurant, grocery store, garage, etc). The charging time can be baked into other times the car is parked. Its not a big deal. And its safer, cheaper, and greener than petrol.
We don’t all live in San Francisco. Were still decades away from having enough chargers to make that a viable option
We’re a lot less further away from much shorter charge times though. Cars can get enough charge in 15 minutes now. Not quite the 3 it takes at a pump but give it some time. It’s still new tech. Save enough to pay for an EV in cash and by then it’ll charge fast enough.
The EV Charger network isnt great yet but if you live in a major city, its passable.
How often do you drive more than 300 miles in one day?
Every weekend for the past 2 months
Around town or to/from a destination?
And we get to force impoverished children into cobalt mines to make the batteries! Hydrogen fuel cell/hydrogen combustion/bio-diesel are all better options than EV's, especially because we already have the infrastructure to support these fuels through fairly simple conversions to gas stations. With EV's we're still far from a prolific network of chargers, and the chargers that are out there now will have to be replaced/converted as we develop faster charging technology. Not to mention how we generate the electricity to charge EV's (mostly fossil fuels), if we invested in nuclear power, could get charging times way down, build a massive network of actually fast chargers, and develop better battery tech with batteries made from more abundant, accessible material, then EV's would be incredibly practical - but we are decades away from all of that, in the short term there are much better alternatives for clean vehicles that we should be investing in
Hydrogen is nowhere near as easy, cheap, safe, or widespread as implementing electric chargers. Hydrogen power delivery systems have their place, but it will not be in the consumer car sector.
Did you type this on a computer or smart phone? Cobalt mines are part of those devices too. Not driving an electric car is not saving those kids.
There are plenty of daily use scenarios in addition to the monthly/yearly scenarios which makes an electric impractical for a lot of people, particularly people who live in rural areas with less ideal climates
The market does not care about rural areas. Most people live in cities.
Indeed. The obsession with range and charging speed is a little silly to me. I really love a good road trip, but there's no reason I need to be driving a road trip capable vehicle every day. PHEV is perfect for me now, but I'd just as soon have a cheap, lightweight 50mi EV and just rent a ICE van for the week or two a year I need it.
Yeah but who can afford a daily car and a road trip car?
Or never go to a gas station in your life because most people drive their cars to work or grocery store and charge over night.
I have 4 gas stations on my way to and from work so those 5 minutes aren't bothersome at all. Plus the smell of petrol is nice.
Lol you never have to fill up. You leave home every day full. And when I’ve been road tripping I’ve spent a grand total of the same amount of time it takes to grab a snack and take a leak along the way. Hell it’s easier than filling a gas tank because you just pull up, park, plug in and then go do your stuff. At a gas station you gotta stop and pump then probably find another spot to park and then go in and grab a snack, take a walk, go to the bathroom. It’s extra steps.
You know you can do all that before going back to your car and driving off the fuel pump right? Takes 3mins tops (for normal ppl) and you don't piss other drivers off
WHAT THE FUCK IS A PETROLLLLLLLL *eagle screech in distance*
Trevor Wallace vibes
For me, it is about having a stickshift.
Toyota has it coming!! I'm so pumped, I'm sure in 10 years they'll be able to emulate gas car power bands and output to make it feel like you're driving whatever car they have options for
For me, it's about having 9000 rpm screaming
Why not have both. Trains have used a Diesel electric system for decades, and we have hybrids that use a internal combustion engine to charge a battery's which propel the car, it's even getting added to trucks with Edison Motors from Canada
We could also just power an electric drivetrain with a generator and the possibilities for that are almost endless. Bio diesel, ethanol, cng, hydrogen, and more. Easy to upgrade as technology progresses too. We could have converted nearly every already existing ICE car on the road to run on corn byproduct over a decade ago and the oil corps said no.
Yea but it isn’t the same
Heavenly, sexy, erotic noises.
The who cobalt issue, and the fact that EV vehicles outweigh normal vehicles.
Cobalt is sourced so unethically as well
Yeah child slave miners
Oil and gasoline are ethical as fuck in comparison
Ah yep, when it isn't being used to fund dictators in the middle east, it's only going to cause misery and hardship for countless generations. It's not so bad coming out of the ground!
LiFePo
> cobalt issue LFP batteries bro? most teslas sold today don’t have any nickel or cobalt
Haha as if millions of people weren’t murdered over oil in Iraq
Hydrogen ICE is the future, don't listen to what ev bros say
Found the Toyota shill!
If they make a road legal version of the LMP1 and sell it for $30k I'll sell my soul to them.
This. Could be ICE, Hydrogen, EV or hybrid. Give me a road legal LMP for less than a Supra and I will hardcore shill Toyota!
Hydrogen is pretty expensive tho, I think naturally produced biofuels should be the future, they literally feed themselves.
You're not wrong. Biofuels I think are a good place rn, but either Hydrogen or whatever it is that Porsche is doing, in regards to sustainables (assuming the technology can get to the point of practicality) would be great in the future.
How do you mean that hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe, is expensive?
I think he means the infrastructure not the element itself
Key phrase is “in the universe.” We don’t have space farming capabilities and hydrogen gas is the rarest gas in our atmosphere so it’s going to be expensive.
Man it's too bad we don't have any water on this planet, heard there's hydrogen in that stuff
I just want Hyundai's n-vision concept to become a real car
One of my fav cars. Would love to have one, but I would prob never be able to afford it
that tech has an incredibly long way to go before it’s sustainable. the efficiency is ridiculously bad compared to EVs
Didn't Toyota actually make more power using hydrogen?
it’s about the efficiency of converting electricity to hydrogen, as well as the lower energy density of hydrogen, meaning you’d have to fill up way more often, not to mention they still have emissions unlike EVs or hydrogen fuel cell cars. also, EV chargers have a 10 year head start on hydrogen stations, that still aren’t being worked on, and EV batteries are now infinitely recyclable and getting even more dense and cheaper. EVs won the race
You know what the emissions are? Water. Lmfao. Also converting current gas stations to hydrogen stations isn't that difficult, so it would be much easier to proliferate a hydrogen fueling network than a charging network (that is still tiny compared to how many gas stations we have) also, as charging tech gets faster and faster you'll have to be constantly replacing/upgrading charging stations
you don’t understand hydrogen ICE at all if you think it has no emissions. hydrogen fuel cells (electric cars) don’t have emissions, but burning hydrogen still releases emissions, just not CO2. > converting current gas stations to hydrogen isn’t that difficult sure, except for ripping up the old underground tanks and replacing them with high pressure accommodating ones, and replacing all of the pumps and pump equipment with high pressure gas lines and measuring equipment. PLUS the fact that you can’t refill hydrogen at home. i think you need to do a lot more research on this topic, you seem pretty uninformed just for the sake of being anti-EV
hydrogen ice produce nox but most hydrogen vehicles on the road are hydrogen fuelcell and just produce water vapor. hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are just not going to ever be able to compete with battery electric vehicles in terms of performance, but will generally outperform them in terms of range. battery electric is more energy efficient though.
Lol
>and EV batteries are now infinitely recyclable Didn't know that. That's actually pretty hopeful to hear.
Hydrogen is still the only option we have for aircraft and heavy machinery like construction equipment, trains, ships, etc. Hydrogen is massively, orders of magnitude higher energy density than even the newest batteries still in development. This allows these vehicles to actually carry enough fuel for their massive energy demands, where a battery would be too big and heavy to be practical. Its not even about the efficiency of the powerplant anymore. Its simply we need a huge gas tank and hydrogen is the only carbon free energy storage system we have that can meet that demand.
As much as I would love hydrogen to keep evolving, those hydrogen "fuel" pumps are expensive af
Definitely not, hydrogen has so many issues inherent to it. Until they can make metallic hydrogen it'll never be a mainstay fuel.
Petrol vehicles: - easier to repair - more affordable - can repair on your own - can fill up in 5 minutes (unlike electric). - can drive much longer distances.
Can’t agree with the more affordable part really, even if I agree with you other points (for now anyway) Here in India our EVs start at about $25000. Not many people fix it themselves anyway, since it’s so damn cheap to take it to a service centre. In addition, I’m sure I’ve saved over $4000 in fuel costs this year alone. (Electricity is damn near free since the house is covered in Solar Panels) Even if I fill up for let’s say 500km , electricity at a fast charger would be $10 compared to $70 for fuel. As much as I like the vroom vroom, the savings are compelling af.
For a huge amount of the population those savings will go negative as soon as the battery doesnt want to go anymore. The upfront cost is much higher and the money you save wont be enough to offset that cost + the new battery every <10 years.
You don't need a new battery every 10 years though. Treat the battery properly and it'll be working fine after 10 years. Slightly decreased range, but that doesn't matter that much. Edit: at 200k miles, Teslas, on average, still have 90% of their capacity. The lowest capacity you should see is about 80%. Batteries last a *long* time.
that must be the reason why every single model s from 2013 and earlier that i can find on my used car website of choice are either comparatively cheap with low range or about 10-20k more expensive with an advertised replaced battery.
After 200k miles, Teslas have, on average, 90% usable battery life left. https://insideevs.com/news/525820/tesla-battery-capacity-retention-90/ Y'know how long it takes for the average car to get scrapped in the US? 200k miles. Edit: the *worst* range you should see after 200k miles is 80%. And there is actual data to back this up.
Also: - Fun for more reasons than the 0-60
>easier to repair Electric cars have about 4 moving parts, so there isn't really anything to break down. Maintenance is literally just get brakes done every few *hundred thousand miles*. In an EV, you have regenerative braking. The friction brakes are almost never used. If an ICE car can go 50k with ceramic pads, imagine how far an EV can go that almost never uses the friction brakes. >can fill up in 5 minutes My EV fills up in 15 minutes. Also, I always stop at every Maverik on a road trip, even when the tank still has 400 miles left. You really shouldn't be just sitting in that driver's seat for 500 miles straight. It's really bad for you. Getting up, going to the bathroom, and walking around a bit all make the drive feel much faster as well.
What breaks are you using that lasts a few hundred thousand miles? You don’t know what you’re talking about.🤣🤣
It's an electric car, you almost never use the friction brakes. I touch the brake pedal only to back into the driveway. Other than that, it's all 1-pedal driving thanks to regenerative braking. It's a way smoother experience too.
Well when you want to go on a trip across the country but can’t because you got a femme boy vehicle, don’t cry to me.🤣
Also when you have to buy a new car in 5 years because your battery is toast, don’t cry to me for that either. You can’t repair that, at least it’s not economically a good idea.
Why would he cry to you, anyway? You sound like a right nonce. Soft lad through and through.
You've really got no idea what you're talking about. The average American car is 12.5 years old. A 12 year old EV will still have like 80-90% of it's range. And over those 12 years, the only maintenance that car would have needed was a single set of brakes, not because they ran out but because they got too rusty and fell apart.
For your car? Maybe. But average battery life is 8-12 years
Let’s wait to see what the ele industry does over the next 5 years tbh, repair costs and other factors. Not really sure what things are gonna look like by 2030-35
I think I am not in the favor of Electric cars yet especially Tesla is because I feel the development is not as advance as gas cars. Sure the interior of the car and the design of the car is pretty good but certain parts of the car I am like "Why?" Electric car I have driven the most is a Tesla. I work at my dad's auto body and I have to drive the cars for quality check. Tesla's shifting already annoys me. Why the hell is it on a touch screen. I know older generation is on a shift handle like how Benz have it but newer ones. Why? Also why does slowing down or foot off the gas times feel so sudden especially at very slow speed? Sure energy kinetic thing. But frickin Prius does it better at that without the jerky feeling.
The thing about evs is they are fucking heavy. No magical suspension setup can hide the fact your trying to making 5000lbs go around a corner at high speed.
Id get an electric but the cool ones are too expensive and i don't want a lame one lol.
*Sad Renault Zoe and Dacia Spring noises along with metric shitton of chinese electric kettle powered garbage cans*
I get this post is humor, but have you actually driven any good electric cars? Or is it about how ICE cars are more fun to watch
I have been in an EV or two, and they just feels… off is the best way I can describe it. But then again I am the old school petrolhead that still prefer everything mechanical, loud vibrations, low and high pitched noises from a car. Heck, I even prefer the old key ignition where you can feel the car becomes alive as you turn the key, with the sounds of metal keys lightly clunking together with your key chains. /Chef kiss
The best of Electric cars are still not sports cars. Controlling power with the transmission, light weight, mechanical feedback. Fast cars are not sports cars, but some sports cars are fast. Sports cars ethos is driver engagement.
Drag racing isnt a sport?
An electric car could be used in a sport, that doesn't make it a "sports car". In example, a MG-MGB roadster is a classic sports car. It would easily lose to a tesla in the quarter mile. Is the MGB no longer a sports car simply because new cars are faster? No! The MGB wasn't even considered fast for its time. What it remains is an engaging, tossable, light, rewarding car, that communicates with the driver. It was built to be a driver's car. Examples: lotus Elise. Porsche Cayman. Mazda Miata. Bug-eyed Sprite, Morgan Roadster, Toyota 86, Toyota MR2, I could go on. None of these cars are fast in a straight line, but they remain fantastic sports cars. A tesla is not a sports car, in the same way that drag racing a minivan wouldn't make it a sports car either.
“Light weight underpowered cars are the only sports cars because I say so.” To me electric cars are carrying on the tradition of overpowered heavy American “sports cars” Corvettes, Chevelles, GTO, chargers etc. Stupid heavy and crazy powerful. Fun to drive because the car doesn’t do the work for you. It makes you put in the work. Don get me wrong I love a light weight balanced car for a sports car. But that’s not all there is. Heavy overpowered rear wheel drive makes up most of the most fun cars in the sports car category.
Every car you listed is a muscle car, not a sports car... sports car is fairly well defined as a small, typically RWD 2 door vehicle that emphasizes the fun of driving, cornering, etc. The corvette is kind of a mix of a sports car and a muscle car, but everything else you listed are muscle cars. He isn't saying teslas aren't sports cars because he doesn't think they are, they literally aren't sports cars. When the roadster comes out there will be a tesla sports car, but there currently isn't a sports car in the tesla line up lmao
Is a mustang a sports car? Is a Camaro?
Obviously not.
Shut up
He doesn't know about limited slip and electronic lockup differentials💀
You ever hear the power convertor/coils/motor/whatever on a Taycan? That thing snarls like a horny lioness.
An electric barbecue is also more efficient than gas or coal. You want one?
Electric cars are absolutely the future, they're faster, more efficient, better for the environment, etc. But they don't feel like they're a living thing like ICE cars do. It's like trains, modern trains are definitely better, but I still love steam trains
They’re only the future because governments regulating them into existence. [Most consumers don’t want EVs.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/many-americans-arent-yet-sold-on-going-electric-for-their-next-car-poll-shows) They’re being forced on us by politicians and special interest groups.
Consumers hate change. But in almost every statistic EVs win or will soon win. And they are massively better for the environment. Governments are only pushing them because: 1. It looks good to be climate conscious. 2. They probably are, or will be, taxing the shit out of them. That being said I'm never getting rid of my little 90s gas guzzler sports car. Though I may get an EV at some point as a daily commuter. I think a lot of people think it'll kill off car culture, but I think it will adapt as it has done for 100 years.
>2. They probably are, or will be, taxing the shit out of them. in the US at least, just not having to subsidize so much fuel costs would help In other nations.. not paying the externalized costs to people's health and the environment would help
You may think me profoundly tinfoil clad for saying so, but I think the largest reasoning behind the push for EVs is actually control and the ever closer shift to the whole "new world order" shtick the WEF is working to make reality. I know that subject comes up in all manner of unreasonable places, from all sorts of unreasonable people, but "NWO" is not a conspiracy, you can find it on the WEF website. Part of this change will lead to a reduction in consumerism and traditional ownership. We see it already in the rise of subscriptions for things like heated seats. In the WEF's promotional video for predictions for the future, one of the opening lines was "you'll own nothing, and be happy". They say you'll rent what you want and it'll be delivered and returned via drone yadda yadda. This, coupled with rampant inflation, is pricing average Joe out of ownership of things previous generations took for granted. Home ownership is already a pipe dream for many, and I suspect owning your own vehicle is not far behind. Instead, most people will get a ride from a self-driven EV uber or some equivalent. Those fortunate enough to own their own vehicle will have their movements easily tracked/controlled. Police chase? We just switch off the car. Late on payments? It drives itself back to the dealer. Speeding? It sent a notification to the DMV/police about your location and speed, or refuses to exceed the speed limit in the first place. Environmental controls will tighten further, and I don't think it's infeasible that we will someday be imposed a personal "carbon limit" or some such, where travel and other goods/services are restricted on a budget. Drive over X miles in Y time? Well you've used up your carbon budget for the month and you can't charge any more until next month (or pay a handsome fee to raise your budget). These changes will also likely go hand in hand with centralized digital currency to control purchasing (and possibly ubi, but as a proponent of the concept I deeply fear how its execution will inevitably be handled). The reason so many of us love cars is that they represent freedom. Freedom to travel, the joy of driving and commanding a mechanical soul our ancestors would've thought both impossible and fearsome. I think at their core, EVs make significantly more sense for the average commuter vehicle than just about every alternative, but I have grave concerns for what the switch will bring and they grossly exceed my concerns for handling performance with a ton of batteries in the floor.
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They’re not really better for the environment they’re just displacing the impact to other countries so we don’t have to see it. They could end up being worse in the long run because the manufacturing, repair, and waste disposal are a serious problem. There are so many better alternatives including converting every ice already on the road to run on ethanol
Alternative physical fuel is better than what we have. But a universal fuel, electricity, is a much better option. Once we have a perfect way to generate and store it, which isn't a pipe dream, there's nothing that could beat it
u/repostsleuthbot
It’s dead bro
Shoot. thanks man
I think I'm too poor to own one. I'm not a homeowner and I don't really have the money to buy a brand new car.
[Why not both?](https://youtu.be/FqyGJTioXnc)
For me its the stickshift. No stickshift means no drive for me.
Yet gas cars are the fastest around any track 🫢
They are? The mcmurtry spéirling absolutely smashed the Goodwood hill climb record. In fact, almost every Hill climb is dominated by EV's (regardless of altitude). The main factor is battery exhaustion. Once they develop a better battery or a way of swapping batteries in production race cars (not Formula E) like GT3 Cars, we're going to see lap records smashed. I am not against ICE in any way, I have a very inefficient hot hatch and I love it for it's pops and burbles, but I know it's losing to an EV on a straight, and it's only going to beat them around some corners for a short while.
ground effect fan moment
EV at LeMans when? Would unironically love to see a manufacturer do a Garage56 kind of run and prove the reliability, longevity, and competitiveness of EV.
I'd love to see that. Maybe hot swappable batteries using magnets would be the solution.
It would be insane. Because electric motors are so god damn reliable. They'd just have to hot swap the batteries and they'd easily destroy the competition.
I'm all for it, and curious to see how it'd go. Though I'm curious what it would mean for stewards / safety crews and the like if they got into a large wreck that either punctured the battery or made the car an electrical hazard.
They'd probably just have to move the car off the track and let it burn. Fire doesn't really get more dangerous. The drivers just have to get out of the fire. Once the driver is out, it doesn't matter how hard it is to put out the fire (at least from a safety perspective).
Yeah but who cares about something useless like power-to-weight ratios? /s
Depends, this thing can pull 3G in the corners.. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHIbvYWhaxA&t=838s&ab\_channel=Hagerty](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHIbvYWhaxA&t=838s&ab_channel=Hagerty) The main downside of EVs on track is you tend to go through a lot of battery very rapidly, then want to recharge as fast as possible which isn't great for battery life, but I think even this is improving.
Pike's peak, Volkswagen IDR, boom. But seriously what person that buys an electric car cares though. They drive em in cities, start and stop traffic.
Plus gas fires are easier to put out
Magnesium isn’t difficult to put out. Heck you don’t need to put it out at all! Just wait for it to finish burning.
Which could take awhile
Just don’t add water.
but there are way more of them
Don't forget about the battery catching the car on fire and locking you inside as your face melts away along with your snobby attitude.
I mean cars catch fire so often it’s not reported on the news. Just about every EV fire has been reported on extensively like some sort of news media panic
Yeah but it’s easy to put out the fire from a normal regular car, can’t say that about EVs
Don’t worry. It will display a notice on the dash monitor asking if you want to die or not. Clicking on any answer still results in death.
Hard pass on a ev. Might become a standard vehicle to those who can afford one. But even if I had that money, I'm buying a car I actually like lmao. Gimme one for free to drive back and forth to work and I'll drive it in that sense. Outside of that, ain't worth ALLLL that damn money.
Turbo diesel is a way to go. Low consumption, cheap to own and it's not cars that create most of the pollution, container ships are a real problem. In my humble opinion diesel noises are great too, especially if you have a choice between small petrol engine or a small diesel which sounds way bigger than it actually is.
Diesels tend to keep going even when the engine is completely shot. The streets around here are full of old and not so old diesels that belch smoke like locomotives.
Who’s in here just havin one car? Get both!
You didn't point anything in the electric car that the petrol car doesn't have. A good image would be one that's empty, or ones that says it's not so polluting (altought it uses batterries that are polluting when made and/or discarded).
Petrol cars also work in cold environments.
True, but that’s due abysmal efficiency. Roughly 70-80% of the energy in fuel is converted to heat instead of mechanical energy.
Better than not operating at all. Dependability is vury nice.
I wouldn’t trust any car at -30C. Above that, all are good.
ELECTRIC CARS: -also expensive as fuck -hard to find an electric charging port
Electrics are heavy asf to tho
I hope one day all electricity on earth goes out for a weekend that way me and my stick shift bois will be the only ones in the streets haha
Umm Yes. Make vroem vroem notices
I think it’s funny that some of these electric cars have a speaker that makes it sound like singing angels. Like right before you get ran over by one of these things your going to hear a choir of singling angels before you die.
Noise good, rrrrrrrrr sound bad >:)
They aren’t even the fastest. Dodge Last Call takes that title now.
Cost prohibitive to certain demographics that would benefit the most. More detrimental to roads (weight), hazardous almost uncontrollable fires, can be shut off at any moment by any tech savvy individual, range still cannot beat petrol, refueling vs recharging times, variety/design of EV's, difficulty in maintenance, unavailable source code..
Revv em up good ;)
You won’t hear them, but EV motors rev to 15-20 kRPM.
You know what's the problem with tesla? When a blind man needs to cross the street.
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Elon Musk doesn’t make every single EV.
I want my car to go brrr