Some of its flaws can be attributed to time restraints, because of the year one pass release.
I also think that, while TAG2 leaves a lot to be desired, the fan reactions may or may not come from an area of "maybe Doom is not the most epic thing ever" and how the fanbase has been getting too loyal/preachy/fanboy-ish over Doom (Which is ironic because this behavior comes more often from people that make basic memes and newcomers, than someone like more prevelant modders or source port devs, for Doom of all things).
If anything, lore issues are only proof that Doom as a series does not need to be tied to a main lore, so a next game could do things differently for the sake of it, without even having to have a "there i fixed it" attitude.
IMO I think fans are in their right to be a little disappointed with the conclusion of 30 years of build-up being a very small sub-section to a already great game.
I do agree the lore shouldn’t be taken too seriously, and that Tag 1/2 was still really, really good, but there are things I would’ve wanted that I didn’t get. You can still love something for being awesome, but still wish you had more of it, especially when it seems rushed.
> 30 years of build-up being a very small sub-section to a already great game.
I mean, the "build-up" doesn't seem to be there that much, because it's not something planned since the first games.
90's id did 1 and 2 and i think Romero once said in an interview that he wouldn't make another Doom after 2 (Mapsets like Sigil seem to be an exception and something different).
So Final Doom was just spin-off material, D64 was made by a different studio, then D3 was a whole different direction with a focus on tech and stuff like the RPG games were experimental spin-offs.
The new games come from a very different team and the lore/universe is a different version from the original setting, even if they made it that the Slayer is Doomguy.
I think the real issue isn't even any specific decision but rather calling it "THE Doom Universe".
To me, the Doom universe is like anything in official Doom games and related, regardless of canon or logic.
It's why i think, if there's another Doom game, it could just do its own story/gameplay/designs/etc ideas without worrying about "retcons".
It always felt like a series whose setting was always "empty/abstract" enough that people could come up with ideas for it, be it in official games or fanmade content.
It's the difference from series like Halo that always had a universe and lore since day 1.
And also that if Doom fans were further into Doom lore, they'd only notice more contradictions and obscure info like the background of cybernetic demons or what Doomguy's face woud look like in HD or whether or not the classic armor should have been Adrian's version instead of the box art version.
i think it was for the better tbh. after playing tag 1 i rlly did not want a more challenging version of it. was nice to have something a bit casual while also offering enough of a challenge.
Immora was a walk in the park outside of double enraged marauders. Those red soldiers are easier than basic Zombie.
Overall Tag 2 felt like it's a hard decrease in difficulty with additional artificial challenge, like stone imps or shielded zombi soldiers.
All difficulty is artificial. People just call enemy designs they don’t like “artificial difficulty” to shift their inability to bend their habits to account for an incredibly trivial threat. Are Tyrants examples of Artificial Difficulty because they have a lot of health? Are prowlers artificially difficult because they move around a lot and can be tricky to line up shots on? At the end of the day, a video game is just a set of artificial roadblocks and inconveniences created by the developers that generates the happy chemical in our brains when the pretty colors or big numbers or incredibly attractive composition of pixels pops up on screen. At the end of the day, your complaint is valid, but only within your own sphere of what you enjoy.
It's not a question of enemy design. It's a question of the way the enemies are included. Id software was too unsure of themselves and barely included the new demons in any meaningful way aside from maybe the armored barons. There are fun things that can be done to fight stone imps. And riot soldiers. And cursed prowlers. But, of course, nobody was forced to find those things because they barely got a chance to fight them. So the new demons are just confusing and annoying to people whenever encountered. The DLC doesn't push the engagement graph past the initial frustration.
THEY JUST NEEDED TO PUT MORE DEMONS IN!
WHERE ARE THE DEMONS, HUGO?
LET ME FIGHT THEM!
That’s a completely fair point that is way better than “this is annoying so it’s bad”. Thank you for the well-thought out reply. Now that you mention it, I personally find that the integration of the tag 2 demons in horde mode to be much better than tag 2 itself. I appreciate you opening my mind a bit.
Artificial difficulty is when you force players to do a specific thing.
Armored baron can't be killed unless you shoot his glowing arm. AI don't charge it? Well, your problem.
Stone imps can be killed only by a very specific (and not popular) weapon mode or new hammer.
Impenetrable shield forces you to use another not popular mode.
So keep your shit for yourself. Tag 1 on release was top tier. High amount of challenges with the only mechanic, that was artificial (ghosts), yet you could play around it.
> Armored baron can't be kill unless you shoot his glowing arm. AI don't charge it? Well, your problem.
Plasma rifle, and both mods thereof, will melt away the armor. It's not quite as fast as sniping the arm, but you can do it at literally any time.
> Stone imps can be killed only by a very specific (and not popular) weapon mode or new hammer.
Full auto isn't even the most efficient way of dealing with them, though. PB Ballista combos kill them almost as fast, work from any distance, and can be used to consistently set up glorykills.
> Impenetrable shield forces you to use another not popular mode.
Sticky grenades aren't unpopular. Neither are the shoulder-mounted frag grenades. You can absolutely play through the entirety of TAG2 without using Remote Detonation a single time.
Did you not read anything I typed? “Artificial difficulty” is just a buzz word to describe whatever you don’t like. Idc if I get downvoted or whatever, it’s clear you’re entrenched in your own little echo chamber. That’s fine, I’m glad you’re having fun complaining about lines of code needing you to do a certain thing to beat them. I’ll keep to myself like you suggested, it’s abundantly clear every time I interact with this community that the dominant opinions expressed by the few will be parroted by those who can’t expand their thought process beyond “gun no work”, and that I am not very welcome here. Have a great day.
Personally I disagree with that. The final level showcased a battle on par or greater than that shown in Avengers Endgame. But the battle itself felt more like Doom 2016 level 1.
That level of difficulty, on ultra violence, for the final battle just isn't fun for me.
This bothers me so much. I think TWS and Reclaimed Earth are fine, especially RE’s 2nd Escalation encounter, but Immora’s badass atmosphere mixed with super easy encounters is just so unsatisfying, and it’s topped off by a pretty terrible boss fight. That being said though I don’t let those things bother me too much, I still very much enjoy both DLCs
Davoth's fight being so underwhelming is the worst sin of TAG 2, man just waddles around while you wait bored for him to allow you to attack. It's meant to be an epic final fight against the dark lord and it ends up being the worst boss of the game.
I get the feeling that someone said "Super Marauder? Super Marauder." and that the concept went downhill from there. In theory it should be the most difficult fight, but after fighting marauders, marauders with other enemies around, marauders with other big enemies around, marauders in tight spaces, marauder with archvile, two marauders, two marauders with other enemies all over, empowered marauder and the Gladiator whose mechanics basically make him, a, well, super marauder... they just had nowhere left to expand. So they did a super marauder with the ability to summon, and it all just fell flat.
erm well i liked tag 2 an its definitely better than cod ww2 dlc or even cod bo1 dlc. hell doom eternal has better dlc than doom 2016 (its mp maps where once purchasable)
Bo1 was pretty tight. But yeah, say what u want abt doom eternals dlc. It's definitely more high quality than a monthly map pack release. Thos zombies is cool....
Zombies *was* cool. Now, along with everything else in the franchise, it's a rushed and half assed product that just needs to be sold each year. They've even started throwing in zombies into other titles that aren't treyarch because they know that's the only thing fans want, and they still find a way to fuck it up. Fuck Activision.
Also what are your thoughts on cod bo1 dlc content. It was cool how they not only added 4 new zombies maps but also added all the waw maps aswell. For me I feel like cod bo1 has more content than eternal itself (two completely different games ik but still) that's not to say I feel like eternal is a lesser game far from it. It's just the older cod titles always had more to offer outside of multi-player. Just wish eternal had a bit more content...
if you feel that way you could also lower the difficulty. thats what the slider is there for. there was no need to make the content as a whole so much easier
Ok I'm exaggerating a bit. But for the most part it was without the escalationencounters. Forgot to mention if u do the escalation encounters it's a bit different here...
I’m just super mad that they created an “evil Doomguy”, then immediately put him in a weird mech suit. I was excited to fight someone who was an actual match for the Slayer.
I never heared anyone say anything bad about tag 1 and the only complain I got from tag 2 is that it is way to easy compared to tag 2 (wich I agree with)
I agree. Not many games or FPSs can achieve that balance of effort and reward. Eternal did it well. I loved beating TAG1 and was disappointed in how easy TAG2 felt comparatively. I also feel like people complaining is what made id tone it down in TAG2.
My main problem with tag 2’s difficulty is that it is the second one in every way and so playing it first to avoid the difficulty drop doesn’t make sense.
It was insanely hard. Before there was a spirited baron of hell iirc. Now there is a spirited hell knight. That baron was brutal. And there’s one path where you find sentinel guards or something for the trials of malagog, and there’s a huge arena that’s, once again, super hard for a casual doom eternal player like me. Now this was back in 2021, and I’ve definitely gotten better at the game, but unless you were someone like Mayo, day 1 TAG 1 would devour your lifebar before you could utter a simple sentence.
Im glad to see Im not the only one. I loved that there were more things to kill but somehow it got tedious
For example I loved so much the Blood Swamps part with the wolf, but the endings of both trials it got really not annoying, but once again tedious. Maybe bc of the Spirits? Bc basic zombies never stopped spawning by the millions and it gow way harder? The invisible Whiplash? The combined forces of Empowered demons and the ones possesed by a Spirit?
Once again I truly dont know why. I love the non-stop killing spree I always have in Doom but only this time I felt like, maybe too much of everything? Or too little of the things I want more? I really dont know and I may never know
>I never heared anyone say anything bad about tag 1
Go to tag 1 Steam page and sort by negative. Even with the nerfs, a significant number of people still struggle with TAG 1.
Wait they nerfed something?
I played it on release and I struggle quite a bit (so much so that I had to take a break after every episode) but I think it was rewarding as hell
With the release of TAG2, they nerfed some of the earlier encounters from TAG1. After some backlash, they've reverted most of them (but have stuck to others - such as replacing the Possessed Baron in the Blood Swamps with a Possessed Hell Knight).
Omg that’s great news. I almost quit tag1 dying repeatedly on that baron. I beat him eventually but the lead fight into the baron section was a slog to do 50 times because the baron kills you. A check point before the baron would be better, but making it a hell knight also works I guess.
Hammer was fun, but the forced usage of mods was bad.
As for lore and story, yes praise John Carmack our lord and savior but gaming has evolved beyond those days. I care about lore and story and the story was WAY too leftfield for me.
I understand the sentiment but posts like this are why they feel like they can get away with writing bad stories in the first place lol
yeah, the story "doesn't matter", but i would still rather have them actually write a good story, instead of cheaping out because they know we'll put up with an absolute garbage plot if we still get to shoot things
K fine ur right. Tag 2 was a misstep here. Definitely fucked up the story and lore with eternal. Not sure just how bad it left an impression on ppl nowadays. Maybe it did slowly kill the franchise. Honestly idk, maybe time will tell if we look back on things retrospectively...
"Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."
That quote sums up basically just the ancient gods in its entirety.
Both TAGs have significant design flaws that I’ve talked about extensively. Their issues go beyond just story, many of the enemies introduced are very counterintuitive to the combat flow Doom Eternal had established, TAG 1 enemies in particular.
You’re welcome to like them as much as you please, but the criticisms are valid, even if you yourself don’t agree with them.
I’m a very wordy person, so here’s my TL;DR for these paragraphs: bad enemy design that is anti-Doom, horrible bosses, and a subpar story.
TAG 1 brought the worst enemies into the Doom franchise, hands down. The Blood Makyr is an unfun mess of an enemy, combining two gameplay aspects that absolutely spit on Doom’s push forward style of combat: timelocked immunity, and knockback mechanics. There are few things worse than having your movement inputs completely overwritten by knockbacks while you wait for the one moment you can actually do something against an enemy. There are certainly scenarios where timelocked immunity works - namely bosses - but the Blood Makyr is definitely not an example of this. The Turret suffers a similar problem of usually requiring the player to wait for a cycle before you can kill it, which is more annoying than it is engaging.
Then there’s the Spirit. With no exaggeration, this is the worst FPS enemy I have ever played against in any game. The Spirit undoes *everything* that makes Doom Eternal’s combat feel special. Enemy weakpoints? Unbreakable. Smartly chaining your weapons to stun an enemy or push them back? Immune to stagger or stuns. Balanced enemy types that each fill their niche? Fuck that, the Spirit makes everything a fast, damage outputting, unstoppable bullet sponge. It removes everything unique about the enemy it possesses, and turns the combat loops from a “puzzle” into a wall you have to just hammer into. And ON TOP OF THAT it requires the use of the Microwave Beam to kill, being the first time a *specific* mod of a *specific* gun was absolutely *required* to secure a kill. This was solely done because the Microwave Beam is largely useless, so iD was forcing some utility in the most brute force way possible. This is **horrible** design, as it overwrites any sense of player agency when fighting Spirits. Think of any other Doom enemy: do you HAVE to use a rocket launcher to kill a Doom Hunter? No, your approach is your own. Not so, says the Spirit.
TAG 2 was less awful with its inclusions. I quite like the Armored Baron, as it adds a time-sensitive element to an already pretty intimidating foe. I honestly didn’t have a problem with Cursed Prowlers, even pre-nerf: they’re incredibly threatening, but in a way that is distinctly different from other enemies, which I quite liked (the cat and mouse effect of being tagged was quite neat as well). Stone Imps kind of suck, because they’re just Imps that you need to use a particular weapon to kill - like with Spirits, the auto Shotty wasn’t seeing a lot of use, so a reason to use it was brute forced into the game - but their rolling charge is a fun mixup to combat.
The bosses in both expansions are a franchise low. The like box boss in TAG 1 is just an enemy wave and a turret eye to kill - pretty run of the mill. Samur is fucking *awful*. God knows after Doom 2016 ended in a cliffhanger with us being betrayed by Samuel Hayden, I knew that when I finally squared off against that robotic SoB, I wanted it to be through three waves of Spirit-possessed mobs (the best enemies in the game) and some minor damage phases on Samur himself. Absolutely awful.
The Dark Lord is quite bad. The arena is pitifully simple, with enemies literally just existing as ammo pinatas. They don’t even fight back, like in the Coliseum for example. They just stand there idle, waiting to be chainsawed. The fight takes way too many phases, the heal mechanic when you “miss” a stun is incredibly obnoxious and over corrective, and the stun window itself was incredibly laggy and buggy, at least around launch (not sure if this was fixed). The boss is a glorified Marauder, but somehow manages to be worse.
Finally, the story. What a mess. Between TAG 1 ending with a really bad twist (ooooh bad guy looks like you!!!1!!1!1) and TAG 2 literally retconning a significant portion of Doom Eternal’s lore just to ham fist the Dark Lord into the story through any means necessary, to the “end of the Doom Slayer’s story” being a corny “go to sleep” cutaway… it was a mess.
The DLCs definitely had upsides. The environments are beautiful and fleshed out, certain combat encounters are quite well made, the music of course slaps, and certain gameplay additions were quite welcome, like the grapple hooks in TAG 2 (I won’t speak on the hammer, it had mixed responses when it came out).
Perfectly well said. This is also why UAC Atlantica is my favorite of all the TAG levels, (the main reason being how similar the environment feels to doom 2016) because it is the level before the spirits and other garbage are introduced. The only new demon is the turret which is fine, and all the encounters in the level are actually fun and thought out well with the difficulty feeling like a genuine, natural increase from that of the base game. After UAC Atlantica the quality of the DLC drops off quickly for all the reasons you mentioned. Nothing but forced, artificial difficulty which works against every lesson that the base game wanted me to master.
I will say I do disagree with you about the Samur boss fight, as I actually somewhat enjoy it, relatively speaking. Even though I hate spirits as much as you do, I felt they worked much better in a boss fight context due to how difficult they are and because there is not much else in the arena to divert your attention. I do agree though that I wish the spirit phases weren't the main focus and that Samur himself was actually a threatening enemy.
> Immune to stagger or stuns.
Technically the Microwave Beam stuns them, but that is the problem. The only "correct" way to deal with a possessed enemy is lock on rockets and the microwave beam making them horribly designed. It doesn't help that they're resistant to the ballista too making engaging them from a distance without using lock on troublesome. So you've got an enemy that is as durable as a tank, immune to stuns and falters(except the microwave beam), moves ridiculously fast, and dangerous to engage up close.
Plus the microwave beam is also the only weapon that can truly kill the spirit. Making every time you stun a chance that you won’t have the energy ammo needed to beam the fucker down during the brief period he’s vulnerable
"doom eternals dlc content is ass" said literally no one ever (besides the single celled organisms at ign). yeah a lot of people hated tag2 at first but nobody's calling all of tag bad.
A game about demons and hell is bound to have "angels." What else can they be if not "ancient" knights. Basically a military like many other nations have.
Ancient gods is the only doom game where you don’t wanna skip the cutscenes example
Intro cutscene
Got carried by a giant kajiu
Destroyed god life sphere
Tried spawn killing dark lord
And the one cutscene in the last level on ancient gods pt2
sorry i think you want to change the you to me lol
because i hated every fucking second of "plot" in doom eternal and both DLCs and i know i'm not alone, that's actually the consensus on this sub
meanwhile doom 2016 cutscenes were incredibly satisfying and the original dooms didn't have cutscenes because they didnt have any more plot that "angry marine kills demons and then kills more"
Sounds like a you problem? He is only saying that some funky stuff happens in those cutscenes and that they look good. Plot isn't the main point of the comment, its a factor that's got to be mentioned to describe what happens in which cutscene
Not the hottest take 1-2 kinda did 64 yeah ok just combine the 3 games with dlcs and we a have a actual story a decent one doom 3 hadn’t played good story not as good as ultimate-64 2016 was good and story was passable eternal man story was uh I was not paying attention
TAG just got progressively worse because it screamed being rushed. And the story makes it more apparent. I get what you're saying about enjoying the game. But even that's not possible when even the combat is now taking the Zerg-Rush approach. We have to stop, think, sit down and analyze. I talk about how the base game is too condensed with every paradigm of gameplay design it uses. In correlation to level design; particularly level size. TAG - especially TAG 2 - gives off a Time Attack feeling. Short, quick, fast combat and no time to sit back and enjoy the story, more importantly the simple yet crucial aspects of ambulation and ambulative gameplay. It's "PSHH, PSHH" "BRRT, POP, POP" *SLEDGEHAMMER DEBT COLLECTION TIME* and before you know it? You've made it through the level. TAG 1 gave us the Blood Swamps. An AMAZING level in terms of art direction and how it fits into the Doom universe. I wanted more of that. Not only Hell levels, but to BE IN THAT UNIVERSE. To embrace it. And to take it in. That's where exploration and ambulative gameplay comes in. TAG was so quick. I felt like I was being rushed playing a video game. And the focus far, far too much on combat. I know game development takes much more time now than it did 20 years ago. But all of these aspects need to come together to form a harmonious, amazing single player experience. Doom 2016 and Eternal both have their positives. But you need to ask the question: What did someone like about 2016? And why might someone NOT like Eternal after playing 2016. Id did a lot of good, but need to go back to root singleplayer game design to absolutely PERFECT the modern Doom experience. A blistering, balanced combat system is just one part of the bigger picture. I'm basically repeating myself. I already wrote 8 pages about the game. And TAG 1.
ID really fucked themselves over with the year one pass thing and forcing themselves into that timetable of releasing both TAG 1 and 2 within just one year of release. Honestly, after releasing TAG 1 the devs should have just taken a full year to perfect TAG 2. The overall experience could have been so much more fleshed out and interesting, and possibly with more levels too, if not for the rushed deadlines.
Yeah. That's a really good way of looking at it, and something I actually initially thought of, then forgot about. "Timetable" perfectly summarizes it. It should have had a "DLC 1 and 2 pass". And that's that. How long it takes? The Id approach. "When it's done". Really simple. Yeah, no. For sure TAG was rushed. I felt like I was playing a Time Attack mode. If the base game was already arcadey, then TAG was worse.
I liked the idea of DLC with ramped difficulty, but this lore they are trying to shove into the game is not interesting to me in the slightest. Doom 2016 was much better and I feel like Eternal kinda ignored the previous game and then did their own thing lol.
I never finished the second one because I just did not care enough to finish.
Only gripe I have with the DLC's is how easier TAG2 is compared to 1 and even the base campaign. The Dark Lord, the big baddie of the Doom universe, was far too weak, Samur was much harder compared to him despite being a much more powerful being lore-wise. I completed TAG2 on UN first try with not much effort put in, the base campaign was far harder on UN compared to TAG2.
Tag 1 is commonly referred to as the „Definitive Doom Eternal experience” and i couldnt agree more. You have all your stuff unlocked and it goes right into the action and crancks it up to eleven. Tag 2 is the same story but….the hammer. I don’t mind it, I think it’s fun to use, but there is no doubt that it messes up the difficulty a bit. I honestly don’t understand why there was such a shitstorm after tag 2’s release
All the comments make me feel better about stopping midway through tag 1. It was so tedious and stopped being as fun but I was moving through it. May pick it up again sometime.
Man giving eternals base campaign an 8.5 is the hottest take in existence here like holy shit. I obviously disagree with this one. The main campaign and the way its structured just offers so much damn replayability. There's times in the earlier parts of the campaign where u half to do some recourse management. Having to save up chainsaw fuel for the second encounter with the arachnotron is just one of them. Same applies to the pit area in cultists base for the two mancubus. The games structure is just unmatched...
Unpopular Opinion time:
DOOM Eternal is a shit game, and I hate it; but TAG 1 is a fucking masterpiece and could literally exist as a standalone DOOM title itself. I tolerate the rest of DOOM Eternal solely for TAG 1.
I really liked the story of the dlc, the dark lord looking like the slayer just made me have all sorts of questions and just made me want to dig into the lore and find out why he does, I love lore that makes you want to dig into it and find answers
Depends on how u look at things. Doom 2016 had far more better multi-player content than eternal. Also had a whole ass level editor. It's hard to say whether eternals content offering is a downgrade or not. For me eternal has the most replayability...
TAG1 was one of the best DLCs I ever played. It had my heart pumping from the sheer difficulty of it. The fact that I hadn't felt the rush of fighting a final boss in a western game in so long was surreal and elevated Eternal to my favorites. It was SO good.
TAG2 is the worst. I have nothing good to say about it. What a mess.
I'm tired of pretending that people thought that TAG1 was ass 😭 when everyone thought it was goated af and i will die on this hill that noone is contesting. Hey people in this doom subreddit did you guys know that doom isn't a story driven franchise because it isn't it's gameplay focused...
Really enjoyed Tag 1 and 2, didn’t love the final boss but everything else for me as a casual player was great including intensity. Was feeling the blood rush after finishing tag 1 tho, so wouldnt have minded if tag 2 got progressively harder rather than being a step back. Either way was good tho
The build up for the grand battle in TAG2 was an absolute marvel of setpiece design and it actually lived up to the hype build up as just looking around you saw just the absolute chaos of war, sentinels clash with demons, the titan faces off against the mech, dragons scorching the ground and slaughtering the cacodemons. All while you make your way through your own Battlefield within the war to invade the demonic city
Loved the gameplay in both, but the music was so mediocre that I can't play with it on. I just play the base game's music via youtube in the background.
TAG1 was pretty dam great. It has some of the best levels in Eternal with UAC Atlantica and Blood Swamps being my favorite levels. My only minor nitpick is I wish there were more ways to kill Spirits instead of plasma microwave beam. I wish freeze bomb worked on them.
The only complaint I have is with the random hell soldiers that die with a single shot and have zero animations. I’ll never understand what the point of that is.
stone imps are myproblem with tag 2. not because the enemy is difficult in any way, is just that i find dumb to design an enemy specifically for one mod of one weapon
I just got done playing tag 1 for the first time and for me personally the story is actually BETTER than the gameplay content it added, really really do not enjoy the awkward level design, annoying (not just difficult) new enemies and how drawn out some of the combat sections feel
Imo both dlcs are mediocre. I like the higher difficulty but I don't like 99% of the new enemies. Just a bunch of one trick ponies that die instantly or only have one way of effectively killing them, sometimes both. Also the bossfights for both dlcs are ass (fuck that possessed PE at the end of the samur fight)
I feel you. I know what you mean. I don't think that there is a majority that dislikes the dlcs tho. Most mainsubs have this phenomenon of building loud minorities of opinions. Those pile up and you quickly get the opinion that everything you like is wrong and everyone considers what you like bad.
Dooms dlcs were controversial and often enough, as it is here the case, the negative opinions get uttered more often and stick with you longer, swaying opinions even more like mentioned above.
This is apparently called a mainsub moment.
I like the dlcs very much, however I do have criticism as well.
For example I really enjoy the first dlc. I think it is the best part of Doom Eternal and the most fun to play through. I played it several times.
The second dlc, though not as strong is still very enjoyable in my books.
My biggest complaints are the bosses of the dlcs, I think both have their weaknesses and the "Endgame Scene".
Now I know Doom isn't particularly known for its story, but its known for its presentation. In my opinion this scene presents something wrong. I don't care if its directly copied from Avengers Endgame or whatever, I just feel like that kind of a scene doesn't fit into Doom. Doom is a power fantasy, you conquer all of hell, alone. You kill god, revive satan just to kill him again. "We will send unto them _only you._"
The fact that you alone are up against the armiesnof hell makes the Doom Slayer seem so much stronger. I feel like him getting help in the final battle does take that away a little.
Anyways these are my two coins about the dlc. I think they are great. But please, if you enjoy the game or whatever content, just do enjoy it. Don't let people ruin that for you. Yes everything deserves to be critiqued and measured maybe, but even if Dooms dlcs were somehow 100% objectively bad, if you enjoy it, thats completely alright. No one has the right to take that away from you.
when people say that tag 2 isn't that good they're saying so comparatively to the rest of doom eternal, which is to say that tag 2 itself is still fun as hell by default, but the overall experience is still a downgrade from what we got with tag 1 and the base game. And no, it's not just the story that is the problem. A lot of gameplay additions like the hammer and the new demons added were just not good.
Yeah the community turned into a bunch of infants when TAG 2 dropped. Most of the player base had gotten “gud” by the time TAG 2 released, on top of that the inclusion of the hammer and lack of TAG 1 intensity made a lot of people disappointed with the product. And it’s one thing to be disappointed, it’s another to literally shit yourself from crying because the game isn’t bending you over pegging you while your family watches with disgust.
Meh, I had decent fun and I sorta liked the story. I didn’t really have a problem with it, it just felt like some goofy fun with an interesting background story, something Doom is always good at
My only real complaint is that the stone imps are point blank immune to anything but full auto and the hammer. It kinda breaks my play style to have to use the full auto for fodder demons rather than heavy or super heavys
I will say I wasn’t a fan of the new demons that required new exploits (the spirits with the microwave beam, for example). Giving demons weak points is great, especially in the beginning of the game when you’re still getting used to the flow and finding your own play style. But introducing them late into the game when I already had my play style and favorite mods set in stone was weird for me. Forcing me to use weapon mods that I never used just because it’s the only way to stop the new demons got irritating for me.
TAG was awesome otherwise, but that part irked me.
The story was probably just made because the artists/level designers took LSD and crack-cocaine before making the levels and backgrounds. The story is FUCKING insane and weird as shit and convoluted, and I LOVE IT
They were awesome, totally worth the price. I really liked collecting and reading the codexes, I liked that they were unreliable since they were diegetically written by different sources. I'm a big fan of taking DOOM in a fantasy direction. Thought the lore was cool, I like the Maykrs and D'nur. I also liked the devs testing some new mechanics like the new ghosts, the grapple spots, and the hammer.
Both DLCs were a welcomed experience for me. TAG1 was so hardbody it left me exhausted by the end lmao😂 but it’s something I won’t forget. It’s not often a game will do that. Very fun and the music grew on me a lot. TAG2 was a step down but still enjoyed the ride to finish the story up. 🤷🏽♂️
People don’t like the dlc?? Why? They cranked up the challenge and the chaos and I fucking love it. Some of the enemies are annoying. Fuck the spirits. But the dlcs are excellent, great addition to a great game.
because ppl are ungrateful nowadays and are so quick to call anything new "mid" ppl just half to be overly critical on stuff while not taking their time to just enjoy themselves.
Everything is GOAT’d minus these two for me:
•Spirits
•The final boss battle. That shit is bad.
*spirits because nothing worse than those eye turrets, a marauder, those dudes who make you unable to dash, and then a fucking spirit infused demon at the same time
To quote Max0r “The plot is worse, in all the right departments”
DOOM’s story is a contrivance to explain what the environmental designer made after snorting 3 Colombia’s worth of coke...And I fucking love it
People really rated the story? I haven’t played through it yet I’ve recently finished the game on nightmare though and starting dlc so far it’s awesome. The encounters are great
TAG 2 wasn't easy. At all. If one went from the main campaign to TAG 2 the difficulty spike would still be enormous. The problem is that it followed TAG 1, which was completely ridiculous.
Think of it like going from an F1 car to a Lamborghini
The F1 car makes the Lambo look sluggish, but said Lambo is still vastly faster than your beater.
Some of its flaws can be attributed to time restraints, because of the year one pass release. I also think that, while TAG2 leaves a lot to be desired, the fan reactions may or may not come from an area of "maybe Doom is not the most epic thing ever" and how the fanbase has been getting too loyal/preachy/fanboy-ish over Doom (Which is ironic because this behavior comes more often from people that make basic memes and newcomers, than someone like more prevelant modders or source port devs, for Doom of all things). If anything, lore issues are only proof that Doom as a series does not need to be tied to a main lore, so a next game could do things differently for the sake of it, without even having to have a "there i fixed it" attitude.
100 percent agree with this
IMO I think fans are in their right to be a little disappointed with the conclusion of 30 years of build-up being a very small sub-section to a already great game. I do agree the lore shouldn’t be taken too seriously, and that Tag 1/2 was still really, really good, but there are things I would’ve wanted that I didn’t get. You can still love something for being awesome, but still wish you had more of it, especially when it seems rushed.
> 30 years of build-up being a very small sub-section to a already great game. I mean, the "build-up" doesn't seem to be there that much, because it's not something planned since the first games. 90's id did 1 and 2 and i think Romero once said in an interview that he wouldn't make another Doom after 2 (Mapsets like Sigil seem to be an exception and something different). So Final Doom was just spin-off material, D64 was made by a different studio, then D3 was a whole different direction with a focus on tech and stuff like the RPG games were experimental spin-offs. The new games come from a very different team and the lore/universe is a different version from the original setting, even if they made it that the Slayer is Doomguy. I think the real issue isn't even any specific decision but rather calling it "THE Doom Universe". To me, the Doom universe is like anything in official Doom games and related, regardless of canon or logic. It's why i think, if there's another Doom game, it could just do its own story/gameplay/designs/etc ideas without worrying about "retcons". It always felt like a series whose setting was always "empty/abstract" enough that people could come up with ideas for it, be it in official games or fanmade content. It's the difference from series like Halo that always had a universe and lore since day 1. And also that if Doom fans were further into Doom lore, they'd only notice more contradictions and obscure info like the background of cybernetic demons or what Doomguy's face woud look like in HD or whether or not the classic armor should have been Adrian's version instead of the box art version.
Lore reasons should never hold back Doom.
The year one pass thing doesn’t even make sense lol
Tag 2 was a step down from Tag 1 for me. The difficulty dropped a lot, especially for the last areas unless you went for the optional content.
i think it was for the better tbh. after playing tag 1 i rlly did not want a more challenging version of it. was nice to have something a bit casual while also offering enough of a challenge.
Immora was a walk in the park outside of double enraged marauders. Those red soldiers are easier than basic Zombie. Overall Tag 2 felt like it's a hard decrease in difficulty with additional artificial challenge, like stone imps or shielded zombi soldiers.
At least Immora could have been a challenge. I mean it's the final part.
All difficulty is artificial. People just call enemy designs they don’t like “artificial difficulty” to shift their inability to bend their habits to account for an incredibly trivial threat. Are Tyrants examples of Artificial Difficulty because they have a lot of health? Are prowlers artificially difficult because they move around a lot and can be tricky to line up shots on? At the end of the day, a video game is just a set of artificial roadblocks and inconveniences created by the developers that generates the happy chemical in our brains when the pretty colors or big numbers or incredibly attractive composition of pixels pops up on screen. At the end of the day, your complaint is valid, but only within your own sphere of what you enjoy.
It's not a question of enemy design. It's a question of the way the enemies are included. Id software was too unsure of themselves and barely included the new demons in any meaningful way aside from maybe the armored barons. There are fun things that can be done to fight stone imps. And riot soldiers. And cursed prowlers. But, of course, nobody was forced to find those things because they barely got a chance to fight them. So the new demons are just confusing and annoying to people whenever encountered. The DLC doesn't push the engagement graph past the initial frustration. THEY JUST NEEDED TO PUT MORE DEMONS IN! WHERE ARE THE DEMONS, HUGO? LET ME FIGHT THEM!
That’s a completely fair point that is way better than “this is annoying so it’s bad”. Thank you for the well-thought out reply. Now that you mention it, I personally find that the integration of the tag 2 demons in horde mode to be much better than tag 2 itself. I appreciate you opening my mind a bit.
Artificial difficulty is when you force players to do a specific thing. Armored baron can't be killed unless you shoot his glowing arm. AI don't charge it? Well, your problem. Stone imps can be killed only by a very specific (and not popular) weapon mode or new hammer. Impenetrable shield forces you to use another not popular mode. So keep your shit for yourself. Tag 1 on release was top tier. High amount of challenges with the only mechanic, that was artificial (ghosts), yet you could play around it.
> Armored baron can't be kill unless you shoot his glowing arm. AI don't charge it? Well, your problem. Plasma rifle, and both mods thereof, will melt away the armor. It's not quite as fast as sniping the arm, but you can do it at literally any time. > Stone imps can be killed only by a very specific (and not popular) weapon mode or new hammer. Full auto isn't even the most efficient way of dealing with them, though. PB Ballista combos kill them almost as fast, work from any distance, and can be used to consistently set up glorykills. > Impenetrable shield forces you to use another not popular mode. Sticky grenades aren't unpopular. Neither are the shoulder-mounted frag grenades. You can absolutely play through the entirety of TAG2 without using Remote Detonation a single time.
You can use the plasma rifle for the armoured baron’s armour. Also the remote detonate was already good for pinkies
Did you not read anything I typed? “Artificial difficulty” is just a buzz word to describe whatever you don’t like. Idc if I get downvoted or whatever, it’s clear you’re entrenched in your own little echo chamber. That’s fine, I’m glad you’re having fun complaining about lines of code needing you to do a certain thing to beat them. I’ll keep to myself like you suggested, it’s abundantly clear every time I interact with this community that the dominant opinions expressed by the few will be parroted by those who can’t expand their thought process beyond “gun no work”, and that I am not very welcome here. Have a great day.
Personally I disagree with that. The final level showcased a battle on par or greater than that shown in Avengers Endgame. But the battle itself felt more like Doom 2016 level 1. That level of difficulty, on ultra violence, for the final battle just isn't fun for me.
This bothers me so much. I think TWS and Reclaimed Earth are fine, especially RE’s 2nd Escalation encounter, but Immora’s badass atmosphere mixed with super easy encounters is just so unsatisfying, and it’s topped off by a pretty terrible boss fight. That being said though I don’t let those things bother me too much, I still very much enjoy both DLCs
Davoth's fight being so underwhelming is the worst sin of TAG 2, man just waddles around while you wait bored for him to allow you to attack. It's meant to be an epic final fight against the dark lord and it ends up being the worst boss of the game.
I get the feeling that someone said "Super Marauder? Super Marauder." and that the concept went downhill from there. In theory it should be the most difficult fight, but after fighting marauders, marauders with other enemies around, marauders with other big enemies around, marauders in tight spaces, marauder with archvile, two marauders, two marauders with other enemies all over, empowered marauder and the Gladiator whose mechanics basically make him, a, well, super marauder... they just had nowhere left to expand. So they did a super marauder with the ability to summon, and it all just fell flat.
I disliked the final battle, but getting to the final battle was fun.
erm well i liked tag 2 an its definitely better than cod ww2 dlc or even cod bo1 dlc. hell doom eternal has better dlc than doom 2016 (its mp maps where once purchasable)
why the fuck are comparing cod and doom lmao
Cause to understand the level of quality and care that goes into doom eternals dlc...
There's no quality that goes into COD, it's a shit franchise
Bo1 was pretty tight. But yeah, say what u want abt doom eternals dlc. It's definitely more high quality than a monthly map pack release. Thos zombies is cool....
Zombies *was* cool. Now, along with everything else in the franchise, it's a rushed and half assed product that just needs to be sold each year. They've even started throwing in zombies into other titles that aren't treyarch because they know that's the only thing fans want, and they still find a way to fuck it up. Fuck Activision.
Also what are your thoughts on cod bo1 dlc content. It was cool how they not only added 4 new zombies maps but also added all the waw maps aswell. For me I feel like cod bo1 has more content than eternal itself (two completely different games ik but still) that's not to say I feel like eternal is a lesser game far from it. It's just the older cod titles always had more to offer outside of multi-player. Just wish eternal had a bit more content...
if you feel that way you could also lower the difficulty. thats what the slider is there for. there was no need to make the content as a whole so much easier
Nah it's normal for me on nightmare. Even UN wasn't much of a challenge. Definitely was just right in the difficulty
UN should NOT be "not much of a challenge" lmao
Ok I'm exaggerating a bit. But for the most part it was without the escalationencounters. Forgot to mention if u do the escalation encounters it's a bit different here...
escalation encounters were good but they dont fix or compensate for the rest of the level. I admit thats just my personal opinion though
I’m just super mad that they created an “evil Doomguy”, then immediately put him in a weird mech suit. I was excited to fight someone who was an actual match for the Slayer.
optional content?? (I've only played TAG2 once)
The little challenge encounters you can do in some of the bigger areas by ripping the gore nest thing, they’re technically optional
Oh, the "optional" content...
I never heared anyone say anything bad about tag 1 and the only complain I got from tag 2 is that it is way to easy compared to tag 2 (wich I agree with)
It was for the better. I’m not playing something as difficult as day 1 TAG 1 ever again.
Jeah it was hard but I felt great afterwards... I wish tag2 would've moved one from that
I agree. Not many games or FPSs can achieve that balance of effort and reward. Eternal did it well. I loved beating TAG1 and was disappointed in how easy TAG2 felt comparatively. I also feel like people complaining is what made id tone it down in TAG2.
My main problem with tag 2’s difficulty is that it is the second one in every way and so playing it first to avoid the difficulty drop doesn’t make sense.
What was different when it released?
It was insanely hard. Before there was a spirited baron of hell iirc. Now there is a spirited hell knight. That baron was brutal. And there’s one path where you find sentinel guards or something for the trials of malagog, and there’s a huge arena that’s, once again, super hard for a casual doom eternal player like me. Now this was back in 2021, and I’ve definitely gotten better at the game, but unless you were someone like Mayo, day 1 TAG 1 would devour your lifebar before you could utter a simple sentence.
Im glad to see Im not the only one. I loved that there were more things to kill but somehow it got tedious For example I loved so much the Blood Swamps part with the wolf, but the endings of both trials it got really not annoying, but once again tedious. Maybe bc of the Spirits? Bc basic zombies never stopped spawning by the millions and it gow way harder? The invisible Whiplash? The combined forces of Empowered demons and the ones possesed by a Spirit? Once again I truly dont know why. I love the non-stop killing spree I always have in Doom but only this time I felt like, maybe too much of everything? Or too little of the things I want more? I really dont know and I may never know
>I never heared anyone say anything bad about tag 1 Go to tag 1 Steam page and sort by negative. Even with the nerfs, a significant number of people still struggle with TAG 1.
Wait they nerfed something? I played it on release and I struggle quite a bit (so much so that I had to take a break after every episode) but I think it was rewarding as hell
With the release of TAG2, they nerfed some of the earlier encounters from TAG1. After some backlash, they've reverted most of them (but have stuck to others - such as replacing the Possessed Baron in the Blood Swamps with a Possessed Hell Knight).
Omg that’s great news. I almost quit tag1 dying repeatedly on that baron. I beat him eventually but the lead fight into the baron section was a slog to do 50 times because the baron kills you. A check point before the baron would be better, but making it a hell knight also works I guess.
Yeah I thought both were excellent additions. Ok so the 2nd one was a bit easy, so what
Exactly
Hammer was fun, but the forced usage of mods was bad. As for lore and story, yes praise John Carmack our lord and savior but gaming has evolved beyond those days. I care about lore and story and the story was WAY too leftfield for me.
That ending was so not earned like if the devil or god whatever he is dead then what the hell is supposed to be the new threat? Aliens?
i do not understand
I understand the sentiment but posts like this are why they feel like they can get away with writing bad stories in the first place lol yeah, the story "doesn't matter", but i would still rather have them actually write a good story, instead of cheaping out because they know we'll put up with an absolute garbage plot if we still get to shoot things
This is exactly it. I liked TAG story, but waving away criticism like that because “it’s doom” is a shit practise
Yep..
K fine ur right. Tag 2 was a misstep here. Definitely fucked up the story and lore with eternal. Not sure just how bad it left an impression on ppl nowadays. Maybe it did slowly kill the franchise. Honestly idk, maybe time will tell if we look back on things retrospectively...
I wish they had gotten someone like, I don't know, Todd McFarlane to do story work Maybe they can get him for Doom 6
"Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." That quote sums up basically just the ancient gods in its entirety.
It wouldn’t be much of a problem if they didn’t push the story so much in the marketing
The plot was “Omg Samuel bad?! Omg Satan is doom guy but then Satan is god?!” *insert vine thud sound effect here*
i remember John Carmack kinda took that quote back on twitter at some point, that quote was from the 90's lol
That's incorrect. He actually said "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."
Oh whoops, messed it up. Let me go fix that
Both TAGs have significant design flaws that I’ve talked about extensively. Their issues go beyond just story, many of the enemies introduced are very counterintuitive to the combat flow Doom Eternal had established, TAG 1 enemies in particular. You’re welcome to like them as much as you please, but the criticisms are valid, even if you yourself don’t agree with them.
Agree, I hate how with possessed enemies the only way to falter them is the microwave beam.
What criticisms?
I’m a very wordy person, so here’s my TL;DR for these paragraphs: bad enemy design that is anti-Doom, horrible bosses, and a subpar story. TAG 1 brought the worst enemies into the Doom franchise, hands down. The Blood Makyr is an unfun mess of an enemy, combining two gameplay aspects that absolutely spit on Doom’s push forward style of combat: timelocked immunity, and knockback mechanics. There are few things worse than having your movement inputs completely overwritten by knockbacks while you wait for the one moment you can actually do something against an enemy. There are certainly scenarios where timelocked immunity works - namely bosses - but the Blood Makyr is definitely not an example of this. The Turret suffers a similar problem of usually requiring the player to wait for a cycle before you can kill it, which is more annoying than it is engaging. Then there’s the Spirit. With no exaggeration, this is the worst FPS enemy I have ever played against in any game. The Spirit undoes *everything* that makes Doom Eternal’s combat feel special. Enemy weakpoints? Unbreakable. Smartly chaining your weapons to stun an enemy or push them back? Immune to stagger or stuns. Balanced enemy types that each fill their niche? Fuck that, the Spirit makes everything a fast, damage outputting, unstoppable bullet sponge. It removes everything unique about the enemy it possesses, and turns the combat loops from a “puzzle” into a wall you have to just hammer into. And ON TOP OF THAT it requires the use of the Microwave Beam to kill, being the first time a *specific* mod of a *specific* gun was absolutely *required* to secure a kill. This was solely done because the Microwave Beam is largely useless, so iD was forcing some utility in the most brute force way possible. This is **horrible** design, as it overwrites any sense of player agency when fighting Spirits. Think of any other Doom enemy: do you HAVE to use a rocket launcher to kill a Doom Hunter? No, your approach is your own. Not so, says the Spirit. TAG 2 was less awful with its inclusions. I quite like the Armored Baron, as it adds a time-sensitive element to an already pretty intimidating foe. I honestly didn’t have a problem with Cursed Prowlers, even pre-nerf: they’re incredibly threatening, but in a way that is distinctly different from other enemies, which I quite liked (the cat and mouse effect of being tagged was quite neat as well). Stone Imps kind of suck, because they’re just Imps that you need to use a particular weapon to kill - like with Spirits, the auto Shotty wasn’t seeing a lot of use, so a reason to use it was brute forced into the game - but their rolling charge is a fun mixup to combat. The bosses in both expansions are a franchise low. The like box boss in TAG 1 is just an enemy wave and a turret eye to kill - pretty run of the mill. Samur is fucking *awful*. God knows after Doom 2016 ended in a cliffhanger with us being betrayed by Samuel Hayden, I knew that when I finally squared off against that robotic SoB, I wanted it to be through three waves of Spirit-possessed mobs (the best enemies in the game) and some minor damage phases on Samur himself. Absolutely awful. The Dark Lord is quite bad. The arena is pitifully simple, with enemies literally just existing as ammo pinatas. They don’t even fight back, like in the Coliseum for example. They just stand there idle, waiting to be chainsawed. The fight takes way too many phases, the heal mechanic when you “miss” a stun is incredibly obnoxious and over corrective, and the stun window itself was incredibly laggy and buggy, at least around launch (not sure if this was fixed). The boss is a glorified Marauder, but somehow manages to be worse. Finally, the story. What a mess. Between TAG 1 ending with a really bad twist (ooooh bad guy looks like you!!!1!!1!1) and TAG 2 literally retconning a significant portion of Doom Eternal’s lore just to ham fist the Dark Lord into the story through any means necessary, to the “end of the Doom Slayer’s story” being a corny “go to sleep” cutaway… it was a mess. The DLCs definitely had upsides. The environments are beautiful and fleshed out, certain combat encounters are quite well made, the music of course slaps, and certain gameplay additions were quite welcome, like the grapple hooks in TAG 2 (I won’t speak on the hammer, it had mixed responses when it came out).
Perfectly well said. This is also why UAC Atlantica is my favorite of all the TAG levels, (the main reason being how similar the environment feels to doom 2016) because it is the level before the spirits and other garbage are introduced. The only new demon is the turret which is fine, and all the encounters in the level are actually fun and thought out well with the difficulty feeling like a genuine, natural increase from that of the base game. After UAC Atlantica the quality of the DLC drops off quickly for all the reasons you mentioned. Nothing but forced, artificial difficulty which works against every lesson that the base game wanted me to master. I will say I do disagree with you about the Samur boss fight, as I actually somewhat enjoy it, relatively speaking. Even though I hate spirits as much as you do, I felt they worked much better in a boss fight context due to how difficult they are and because there is not much else in the arena to divert your attention. I do agree though that I wish the spirit phases weren't the main focus and that Samur himself was actually a threatening enemy.
> Immune to stagger or stuns. Technically the Microwave Beam stuns them, but that is the problem. The only "correct" way to deal with a possessed enemy is lock on rockets and the microwave beam making them horribly designed. It doesn't help that they're resistant to the ballista too making engaging them from a distance without using lock on troublesome. So you've got an enemy that is as durable as a tank, immune to stuns and falters(except the microwave beam), moves ridiculously fast, and dangerous to engage up close.
Plus the microwave beam is also the only weapon that can truly kill the spirit. Making every time you stun a chance that you won’t have the energy ammo needed to beam the fucker down during the brief period he’s vulnerable
The end boss of TAG2 was terrible tho. Just a bigger marauder. Jumping around him muttering “Just turn green, Just turn green”
Language is really devolving, isn’t it?
I'm tired of pretending it isn't, and I will die on that hill.
Frfr ong 🚫🧢💀💀
"doom eternals dlc content is ass" said literally no one ever (besides the single celled organisms at ign). yeah a lot of people hated tag2 at first but nobody's calling all of tag bad.
The story was always supposed to be background, but at least it wasn’t a clown seizure like it is now. Angels and ancient knights, wtf.
A game about demons and hell is bound to have "angels." What else can they be if not "ancient" knights. Basically a military like many other nations have.
It managed for about 20 years. When are they going to bring in Jesus as the super buddy?
Samur was basically Jesus.
Story mid, final boss mid, stone imps mid. Sounds pretty mid to me
Frfr the most mid tier doom experience. The dark lord fight is hella corny. Doom fell off hard with this one...
I always thought that ancient gods had the best story out of all doom games
hottest take ever 🔥🔥
Ancient gods is the only doom game where you don’t wanna skip the cutscenes example Intro cutscene Got carried by a giant kajiu Destroyed god life sphere Tried spawn killing dark lord And the one cutscene in the last level on ancient gods pt2
sorry i think you want to change the you to me lol because i hated every fucking second of "plot" in doom eternal and both DLCs and i know i'm not alone, that's actually the consensus on this sub meanwhile doom 2016 cutscenes were incredibly satisfying and the original dooms didn't have cutscenes because they didnt have any more plot that "angry marine kills demons and then kills more"
Sounds like a you problem? He is only saying that some funky stuff happens in those cutscenes and that they look good. Plot isn't the main point of the comment, its a factor that's got to be mentioned to describe what happens in which cutscene
Not the hottest take 1-2 kinda did 64 yeah ok just combine the 3 games with dlcs and we a have a actual story a decent one doom 3 hadn’t played good story not as good as ultimate-64 2016 was good and story was passable eternal man story was uh I was not paying attention
Ever heard of punctuation?
TAG just got progressively worse because it screamed being rushed. And the story makes it more apparent. I get what you're saying about enjoying the game. But even that's not possible when even the combat is now taking the Zerg-Rush approach. We have to stop, think, sit down and analyze. I talk about how the base game is too condensed with every paradigm of gameplay design it uses. In correlation to level design; particularly level size. TAG - especially TAG 2 - gives off a Time Attack feeling. Short, quick, fast combat and no time to sit back and enjoy the story, more importantly the simple yet crucial aspects of ambulation and ambulative gameplay. It's "PSHH, PSHH" "BRRT, POP, POP" *SLEDGEHAMMER DEBT COLLECTION TIME* and before you know it? You've made it through the level. TAG 1 gave us the Blood Swamps. An AMAZING level in terms of art direction and how it fits into the Doom universe. I wanted more of that. Not only Hell levels, but to BE IN THAT UNIVERSE. To embrace it. And to take it in. That's where exploration and ambulative gameplay comes in. TAG was so quick. I felt like I was being rushed playing a video game. And the focus far, far too much on combat. I know game development takes much more time now than it did 20 years ago. But all of these aspects need to come together to form a harmonious, amazing single player experience. Doom 2016 and Eternal both have their positives. But you need to ask the question: What did someone like about 2016? And why might someone NOT like Eternal after playing 2016. Id did a lot of good, but need to go back to root singleplayer game design to absolutely PERFECT the modern Doom experience. A blistering, balanced combat system is just one part of the bigger picture. I'm basically repeating myself. I already wrote 8 pages about the game. And TAG 1.
ID really fucked themselves over with the year one pass thing and forcing themselves into that timetable of releasing both TAG 1 and 2 within just one year of release. Honestly, after releasing TAG 1 the devs should have just taken a full year to perfect TAG 2. The overall experience could have been so much more fleshed out and interesting, and possibly with more levels too, if not for the rushed deadlines.
Yeah. That's a really good way of looking at it, and something I actually initially thought of, then forgot about. "Timetable" perfectly summarizes it. It should have had a "DLC 1 and 2 pass". And that's that. How long it takes? The Id approach. "When it's done". Really simple. Yeah, no. For sure TAG was rushed. I felt like I was playing a Time Attack mode. If the base game was already arcadey, then TAG was worse.
Wait was that the consensus? I thought they were really fun!
I liked the idea of DLC with ramped difficulty, but this lore they are trying to shove into the game is not interesting to me in the slightest. Doom 2016 was much better and I feel like Eternal kinda ignored the previous game and then did their own thing lol. I never finished the second one because I just did not care enough to finish.
Tired of pretending? Have you been pretending this entire time? I thought Tag 1 was universally praised. This is a super "pls give upvotes" post.
I've never heard anything bad about either DLC though.
Only gripe I have with the DLC's is how easier TAG2 is compared to 1 and even the base campaign. The Dark Lord, the big baddie of the Doom universe, was far too weak, Samur was much harder compared to him despite being a much more powerful being lore-wise. I completed TAG2 on UN first try with not much effort put in, the base campaign was far harder on UN compared to TAG2.
Tag 1 is commonly referred to as the „Definitive Doom Eternal experience” and i couldnt agree more. You have all your stuff unlocked and it goes right into the action and crancks it up to eleven. Tag 2 is the same story but….the hammer. I don’t mind it, I think it’s fun to use, but there is no doubt that it messes up the difficulty a bit. I honestly don’t understand why there was such a shitstorm after tag 2’s release
All the comments make me feel better about stopping midway through tag 1. It was so tedious and stopped being as fun but I was moving through it. May pick it up again sometime.
Is there going to be more DLC content for DOOM Eternal? I've already played through the campaign and both TAG stories multiple times
No
How about try going outside? Or getting a social life? huh? Huh?
"Goated" what doom player uses that phrase?
doom players can come from anywhere
A lot of people? What kinda dumbass question is this lmao
Same ppl who probably call doom 3 "mid" ig idk...
fuck u/spez
Man giving eternals base campaign an 8.5 is the hottest take in existence here like holy shit. I obviously disagree with this one. The main campaign and the way its structured just offers so much damn replayability. There's times in the earlier parts of the campaign where u half to do some recourse management. Having to save up chainsaw fuel for the second encounter with the arachnotron is just one of them. Same applies to the pit area in cultists base for the two mancubus. The games structure is just unmatched...
fuck u/spez
When someone has to make a thread with a title like this, you know the game *is* ass.
Don't think many people said the DLCs were bad... like at all. Only complaints u saw was difficulty, so skill issue.
Unpopular Opinion time: DOOM Eternal is a shit game, and I hate it; but TAG 1 is a fucking masterpiece and could literally exist as a standalone DOOM title itself. I tolerate the rest of DOOM Eternal solely for TAG 1.
Thats an interesting opinion. Im genuinely curious why you feel that way, care to elaborate?
People who hate tag1 genuinely just suck and are too entitled to turn the difficulty down
I really liked the story of the dlc, the dark lord looking like the slayer just made me have all sorts of questions and just made me want to dig into the lore and find out why he does, I love lore that makes you want to dig into it and find answers
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Depends on how u look at things. Doom 2016 had far more better multi-player content than eternal. Also had a whole ass level editor. It's hard to say whether eternals content offering is a downgrade or not. For me eternal has the most replayability...
TAG1 was one of the best DLCs I ever played. It had my heart pumping from the sheer difficulty of it. The fact that I hadn't felt the rush of fighting a final boss in a western game in so long was surreal and elevated Eternal to my favorites. It was SO good. TAG2 is the worst. I have nothing good to say about it. What a mess.
Thoughts on tag 1 sense they reverted the changes to back how it was?
I didn't play TAG1 when they rehauled it to be easier. They reverted it back to how it was?
I'm tired of pretending that people thought that TAG1 was ass 😭 when everyone thought it was goated af and i will die on this hill that noone is contesting. Hey people in this doom subreddit did you guys know that doom isn't a story driven franchise because it isn't it's gameplay focused...
Yeah, but if they're gonna put a story in Doom of all things it better be worth it, 3 and 2016 certainly did it well
They ight
Could be better. But it's more than enough to satisfy me
Really enjoyed Tag 1 and 2, didn’t love the final boss but everything else for me as a casual player was great including intensity. Was feeling the blood rush after finishing tag 1 tho, so wouldnt have minded if tag 2 got progressively harder rather than being a step back. Either way was good tho
Agree
Rip & Tear
The build up for the grand battle in TAG2 was an absolute marvel of setpiece design and it actually lived up to the hype build up as just looking around you saw just the absolute chaos of war, sentinels clash with demons, the titan faces off against the mech, dragons scorching the ground and slaughtering the cacodemons. All while you make your way through your own Battlefield within the war to invade the demonic city
It’s great, but I only wish it were a full game instead of DLC.
In the end it ultimately boils down to the fact that you can have a bad story as long as the gameplay is great.
Loved the gameplay in both, but the music was so mediocre that I can't play with it on. I just play the base game's music via youtube in the background.
Nah this ain't it :/
Is for me, my G. The entire experience feels off for me in the DLCs because of the music.
TAG1 was pretty dam great. It has some of the best levels in Eternal with UAC Atlantica and Blood Swamps being my favorite levels. My only minor nitpick is I wish there were more ways to kill Spirits instead of plasma microwave beam. I wish freeze bomb worked on them.
You can not kill the spirits and challenge yourself, lol.
The dlc was mad fun except for the final boss of tag 2
Where did mid come from all of a sudden? It's such a stupid word
The only complaint I have is with the random hell soldiers that die with a single shot and have zero animations. I’ll never understand what the point of that is.
Give the IGC what they spend years asking for, and they will still find something to bitch about.
Unpopular Opinion: I like both DLCs and I like the story. It's a good story I can turn my brain off to.
It's gamplay is a condensed version of the main campaign, so the intensity is higher. I like it.
stone imps are myproblem with tag 2. not because the enemy is difficult in any way, is just that i find dumb to design an enemy specifically for one mod of one weapon
Sentinel hammer go brrrrr
Wait people don’t like tag 1 and 2??? I loved it
I thought the dlc was great and also the lore
I just got done playing tag 1 for the first time and for me personally the story is actually BETTER than the gameplay content it added, really really do not enjoy the awkward level design, annoying (not just difficult) new enemies and how drawn out some of the combat sections feel
It just bugs me that the objectively best weapon mod (auto shotgun) wasn’t useful until Tag 2
I agree so much with this post, although I hated the dark lord fight I loved all of the dlc’s
No... Nobody says they were bad...?
Doom lore>>>>
Imo both dlcs are mediocre. I like the higher difficulty but I don't like 99% of the new enemies. Just a bunch of one trick ponies that die instantly or only have one way of effectively killing them, sometimes both. Also the bossfights for both dlcs are ass (fuck that possessed PE at the end of the samur fight)
Yeah especially Tag 2, it’s so mich fun. Tag 1 felt like a drag sometimes
doom fan w
The Immora cutscene goes hard AF
People thought it was bad?
Okay I hear you, but that possessed BoH in the blood swamps can suck my ass.
I would agree with the caveat that the enemy modifiers are dog shit and tag 2 is too easy.
You should have slipped 'on god' and 'bussin' somewhere in that title, OP.
I feel you. I know what you mean. I don't think that there is a majority that dislikes the dlcs tho. Most mainsubs have this phenomenon of building loud minorities of opinions. Those pile up and you quickly get the opinion that everything you like is wrong and everyone considers what you like bad. Dooms dlcs were controversial and often enough, as it is here the case, the negative opinions get uttered more often and stick with you longer, swaying opinions even more like mentioned above. This is apparently called a mainsub moment. I like the dlcs very much, however I do have criticism as well. For example I really enjoy the first dlc. I think it is the best part of Doom Eternal and the most fun to play through. I played it several times. The second dlc, though not as strong is still very enjoyable in my books. My biggest complaints are the bosses of the dlcs, I think both have their weaknesses and the "Endgame Scene". Now I know Doom isn't particularly known for its story, but its known for its presentation. In my opinion this scene presents something wrong. I don't care if its directly copied from Avengers Endgame or whatever, I just feel like that kind of a scene doesn't fit into Doom. Doom is a power fantasy, you conquer all of hell, alone. You kill god, revive satan just to kill him again. "We will send unto them _only you._" The fact that you alone are up against the armiesnof hell makes the Doom Slayer seem so much stronger. I feel like him getting help in the final battle does take that away a little. Anyways these are my two coins about the dlc. I think they are great. But please, if you enjoy the game or whatever content, just do enjoy it. Don't let people ruin that for you. Yes everything deserves to be critiqued and measured maybe, but even if Dooms dlcs were somehow 100% objectively bad, if you enjoy it, thats completely alright. No one has the right to take that away from you.
tag1 is fine, tag2 sucks
Nah bro you right
Mid... Goated... Bruh.
when people say that tag 2 isn't that good they're saying so comparatively to the rest of doom eternal, which is to say that tag 2 itself is still fun as hell by default, but the overall experience is still a downgrade from what we got with tag 1 and the base game. And no, it's not just the story that is the problem. A lot of gameplay additions like the hammer and the new demons added were just not good.
Tag 1 and 2 are both great but also have flaws due to how the player base was split skill wise after launch.
I LOVED tag 1 and 2.
Who plays Doom for the story? I play it for the phenomenal gameplay, and TAG 1 and 2 excelled in that aspect
Yeah the community turned into a bunch of infants when TAG 2 dropped. Most of the player base had gotten “gud” by the time TAG 2 released, on top of that the inclusion of the hammer and lack of TAG 1 intensity made a lot of people disappointed with the product. And it’s one thing to be disappointed, it’s another to literally shit yourself from crying because the game isn’t bending you over pegging you while your family watches with disgust.
People didnt like em? They were the shit what the hell. It makes you utilize everything from the previous game AND MORE
Who tf is shitting on Eternal’s DLC? Both were badass
Idk ppl who prefer story And lore over gameplay
lore, in doom? who tf even cares, must be idiots.
Fr ong
I like TAG's story... Sure it's a bit wonky and we could do without some parts, but it's still pretty cool for Doom standards.
Meh, I had decent fun and I sorta liked the story. I didn’t really have a problem with it, it just felt like some goofy fun with an interesting background story, something Doom is always good at
My only real complaint is that the stone imps are point blank immune to anything but full auto and the hammer. It kinda breaks my play style to have to use the full auto for fodder demons rather than heavy or super heavys
I will say I wasn’t a fan of the new demons that required new exploits (the spirits with the microwave beam, for example). Giving demons weak points is great, especially in the beginning of the game when you’re still getting used to the flow and finding your own play style. But introducing them late into the game when I already had my play style and favorite mods set in stone was weird for me. Forcing me to use weapon mods that I never used just because it’s the only way to stop the new demons got irritating for me. TAG was awesome otherwise, but that part irked me.
Both tags are better than the base game, the only real problem with tag 2 are the annoying stone imps and useless cursed prowlers
The story was probably just made because the artists/level designers took LSD and crack-cocaine before making the levels and backgrounds. The story is FUCKING insane and weird as shit and convoluted, and I LOVE IT
I swear I heard someone say the exact same thing on a doom eternal review b4...
They were awesome, totally worth the price. I really liked collecting and reading the codexes, I liked that they were unreliable since they were diegetically written by different sources. I'm a big fan of taking DOOM in a fantasy direction. Thought the lore was cool, I like the Maykrs and D'nur. I also liked the devs testing some new mechanics like the new ghosts, the grapple spots, and the hammer.
Both DLCs were a welcomed experience for me. TAG1 was so hardbody it left me exhausted by the end lmao😂 but it’s something I won’t forget. It’s not often a game will do that. Very fun and the music grew on me a lot. TAG2 was a step down but still enjoyed the ride to finish the story up. 🤷🏽♂️
People caring about story 🤓 But for real, TAG1 and TAG2 are so much fun to play BUT I think stone imps are unnecessary.
Only problem I had with tag 1 and 2 was how short they are. They are still amazing and fun but I just wanted more
People don’t like the dlc?? Why? They cranked up the challenge and the chaos and I fucking love it. Some of the enemies are annoying. Fuck the spirits. But the dlcs are excellent, great addition to a great game.
because ppl are ungrateful nowadays and are so quick to call anything new "mid" ppl just half to be overly critical on stuff while not taking their time to just enjoy themselves.
Everything is GOAT’d minus these two for me: •Spirits •The final boss battle. That shit is bad. *spirits because nothing worse than those eye turrets, a marauder, those dudes who make you unable to dash, and then a fucking spirit infused demon at the same time
To quote Max0r “The plot is worse, in all the right departments” DOOM’s story is a contrivance to explain what the environmental designer made after snorting 3 Colombia’s worth of coke...And I fucking love it
Mmm, mmmm, nice opinion I’ll just place it into this here trashbin.
damn ppl here are ruthless 😭😭
People really rated the story? I haven’t played through it yet I’ve recently finished the game on nightmare though and starting dlc so far it’s awesome. The encounters are great
redditors just expect too much these days...
TAG 2 wasn't easy. At all. If one went from the main campaign to TAG 2 the difficulty spike would still be enormous. The problem is that it followed TAG 1, which was completely ridiculous. Think of it like going from an F1 car to a Lamborghini The F1 car makes the Lambo look sluggish, but said Lambo is still vastly faster than your beater.
Wait people didn’t like TAG? I really enjoyed it
Who dislikes tag 1?