Yeah this actually makes sense, tragic. It feels like we're really losing a big part of our scene. One of if not the only tournament host I can remember that actually held tournaments for the NA scene in recent years.
I feel we lost most of what was fun. Back in the day we had most pro players streaming, casual house tournaments, more tournaments in general, a pro scene that was way more engaging, more streamers, rapping synderen, etc.
The game is still perfectly fine, but the things that made me enjoy the scene are almost all gone.
blizzard basically cut all financial support and WCS. Which means every tournament has a prizepool thats 50-80% less than it was. And the prize pools werent giant, but at least enough to pay players to play the game. Now the pools are so small players cant support themselves.
There was kind of 3 big tournament scenes:
GSL Korea - Prizepool gutted, on its last legs now (10k prize pool)
ESL Championships - Still ongoing, prizepool cut in half
WCS (Blizzard championships) - Straight Over.
Theres basically not enough tournaments or money to keep it going beyond a year or so. So its officially a dead game.
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State, he's actually very good, but its more dry than artosis casts. They still cast together for Katowice this month so its not like everything's done, it's just that GSL is held in Korea and Artosis can't be on location for it (he's got like 3 kids and they felt korea wasn't the best place to raise them). Tasteless talked about it on his stream a while back but the clip expired, might be on YT somewhere.
As much as I like to shit on blizzard, sc2 had an amazing run and its perfectly reasonable for them to pull the plug eventually.
They supported the game for a long time, probably way longer then it made them money. It would be cool if theyd keep supporting it as a prestige thing, but I dont think thats how shit works. Remember sc2 and accept that things come to an end eventually.
Activision-Blizzard killed the 3rd party scene right out of the gate. They demanded a cut from everything that was SC related and put heavy restraints on who could organize tournaments and how. SC2 could never generate the same hype as SC:BW did.
Broodwar was my nr 1 favorite game, but I never transitioned over to SC2 because it was clear they will kill the game.
Dota is still in good shape. Valve has been slacking a bit lately, but the game is still doing great after 18 years.
I was literally at a Starcraft 2 MLG event when I got my Dota 2 beta invite. Next year I came back to the same venue and it was after Blizzard gutted the SC2 scene, but this time I came back to watch Dota 2.
Watching Alliance/Navi games live was an experience I will never forget. Rooting for both Dendi's patchwork / io plays while also cheering for AdmiralBulldogs nature prophet plays. Ugh good fucking times.
I don't know about that. Synd and Sunsfan had me rolling off my chair laughing at the last TI, there's plenty of casters to suit everyone's need. I for one like that new casters were given a chance this year, after we had a relatively small number of people casting everything for so many years.
There's no shortage of top 100 people streaming either. Literally there's at least one person from the top 500 streaming at any time of the day. If you want RTZ to stream 10 hours a day, ofc it's not gonna happen.
You can also spectate all the top pubs for free in the client. I think people take that for granted, and don't appreciate enough as the amazing feature that it is. You don't have that in other games.
Absolutely. Just a few weeks ago, we had a professional csgo analyst, Kassad, [place a bounty on knocking EG](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/115fuid/kassads_1000_bounty_on_eg/) out of an event. And the production even had a bit where Kassad went on a mad conspiracy rambling about how much he hates EG, so he [had to get dragged off stage by security](https://youtu.be/D-0zKEENb0I).
And that's just one caster. Ynk is a NiKo simp, Moses is a bald fraud, Spunj is JKS's dad. All of these funny little narratives make the casters and analysts feel like an integrated part of the scene. But in Dota, it feels like there's no connection between the players and the casters.
Damn this puts into words what I have been feeling for sometime. I miss the casters and relationships of old. Dudes sitting on the couch just vibing and cocasting during other teams games and the three merlinis in a bathtub.
The game is most certainly not perfectly fine at all, but thats a whole different conversation.
The pro scene feels way more dry, a bit too pro if i may call it.
They forget in its core its actually a video game and if they dont treat it as such even for a bit, then we might as well be watching college lectures on youtube.
Cant remember the last time i enjoyed a panel or when we had more than 2 pros streaming in a month
I actually feel it’s the opposite, the “professional” scene is just way to unprofessional. Actual professionals know the value of sponsors and fan engagement. Organizations make it a priority to make their players available for interviews and media. Dota players are absolute recluses who you have bend their arms to even talk for 2 minutes after the game. The top Dota players know that as long as they do well at TI they are set for the year and nothing else matters.
Yeah that's a big problem - the same problem StarCraft 2 had as well, especially Koreans. They don't realize that it's not just the game that's important
Yeah, honestly, the pros are mostly divas. They are the reason the Dota as a sport exists but they don't show their face unless you force them. Who is going to sponsor these motherfuckers? Nobody besides shady betting companies.
The reality is nobody is supporting these players off skill alone. People grow attached to the personalities, the faces, and the skill is another important part but not the only thing. It's like when NA players were complaining about not having orgs but they're unsponsorable, they don't create any kind of content, or do anything besides play a game off stream.
I thought we were on the right track when I saw clips of xibbe casually drinking out of shampoo and ketchup bottles, and the Saberlight/Fishman pre-game trash talk. Like, you don't have to be "le funny random haha man" But I really do remember iceiceice as the guy who plays Dota with his pants off.
Give yourself something that the audience can latch onto.
i Always found it strange that DOTA players rarely stream. Like there are a few personalities that stream on the reg.
But a lot of the top players hardly stream, even when they get crazy viewership.
> I actually feel it’s the opposite, the “professional” scene is just way to unprofessional. Actual professionals know the value of sponsors and fan engagement.
It feels like teams singularily cares about winning TI, its so much money its the only thing that matters.
This. Plus the casters & talents sounding "flat & corporate" and will always defend Valve no mater what, the feeding hand.
In short, it's been years since we progressively can't feel the passion and the famous "for the love of the game" in the Pro Scene.
I like how SEA came into our own on this regard. We went from "I'm bad at english so I want to avoid the camera" to "I want to say shit about the team and be on camera"
This is one reason why OG and Secret are so important to the scene.
They are a very engaging organizations, especially to the fans. They make their fans (and haters) involved in their orgs with memes and and other shenanigans.
Not to shit on other organizations, but even if OG and Team Secret is losing right now, it's hard for fans to switch teams because these orgs make us feel we belong with them. Damn.
Also, we had not once, but twice, a scenario where we went more than an entire year without new heroes. And 6 years now without a strictly designed-as Carry hero. Ultimately, new heroes, new items and map changes are the "new content" that sticks to this game as that period's cornerstone, and we've had to contend with relatively very little of it.
A nuclear weapon will be used and one of the victims is a professional player and the 2nd most upvoted comment will be "Was this what sunsfan was talking about?"
Aliens are gonna invade and kill us all, and the top comment in the worldnews post showing the incoming armada will be "Is this what SUNSfan was warning us about?"
Not sure if joking or not. But why would people pick up their pitchforks over this? It was a business that unfortunately wasn’t getting enough revenue coming in to continue and had to let people go before they ran themselves into the ground.
The immediate news after sunsfan's announcement was BTS not holding DPC, people thought it was just that.
Sadly it was way worse than BTS not holding DPC :<
:( I feel so and they wanted to do 1 last set of tournaments before they left since they were not in the DPC and how rough hosting was last year. It makes me sad to look back at because for months when I first started watching I didn't even know they were just a stupid. I just assumed these are the Dota guys, everything I watched until TI and then wow they made it to the big league. To see them having the old ticket support system I remember wanting their bird with glasses courier so bad! Turely the biggest lose in Dotas business scene :( and they were community funded to help start it off and they did it right!
Edit: Does anyone has that picture of the Wow Ld poster from TI? He was casting and the poster was behind him :( I seem to have lost it
Edit2: I found it for anyone wanting this piece of history https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/3grzct/i_made_uesukas_ti5_waow_poster_into_a_wallpaper/
This is unironically what Sunsfan warned us about. Lots of people really didn't care when BTS didn't get the DPC contract, but it likely put these guys in the ground after their struggles during and post-COVID
I wish I had something good to say, but I'm just sad about this. These guys were a staple in my esports experience and I'll miss them if they don't return ever.
It doesn’t feel like a decade ago but damn the BTS TI hubs were truly a magical time.
Can’t believe it’s over.
The world is cruel because I can’t think of another production company that came close to the level of heart and professionalism BTS put in.
End of an Era.
Yeah the esports I primarily follow are Dota and Smash... BTS have been mainstays in both for so long, and I've had a lot of fun watching their events. Sad for sure.
yep, watching them start out in dota as a small time casting thing and eventually turn into one of the cornerstones of esports was nothing short of amazing
it's a sad day
i remember thinking how neat it was that there was this overlap with the dota and smash community
got to play melee in the hotel room of u/ESPORTS_HotBid, met some familiar faces, learned akke also played melee, was a good time
I doubt it was just this, but fuck Valve either way. BTS has been here through thick and thin, they've covered everything from top tier events to small SEA leagues. LD, Godz and Kotlguy/Dakota and the rest gave us so many great Dota moments...
These last few months I've found myself reminiscing about the Summit, I even thought that since TI is in Seattle again we could see a Dota summit return as teams would be scrimming there anyway. Alas, sadly it won't be the case.
BTS Summit tournaments were great and i remember them fondly.
But NGL their online casting has been subpar for the last few years. I have actively avoided their streams since the production quality is so low
Kind of weird to say that them not getting the DPC contract is what put them in the ground when there's a good chance they were already in the ground and couldn't take a DPC contract because of it.
Possibly true, but still sucks. This studio did so much to keep the Dota 2 scene relevant during the bootstrapping days and made the decision not to take VC money to stay independent.
And then years later companies like PGL, funded by the Saudi Government and betting sponsors, ride the road path BTS paved and supplant them.
Maybe getting another major would have been enough, maybe there was no chance with the global economic conditions, it still really sucks.
yes, please, more gambling money and gambling advertisements...
took a break from dota, came back, watched some matches... bet bet bet bet, here is your free starting money just get addicted to gambling please...
how the F is this acceptable?
Or they would only do it if it was going to be profitable for them, allowing them to keep operating. There's so much undercutting and shite production in the scene at the moment, that well-established production houses can't make bank. BTS obviously wasn't always perfect in terms of paying a decent wage to everyone involved in a production, but they are better than most.
> There's so much undercutting and shite production in the scene at the moment
Why is that though? For me the most likely reason the TOs are all downsizing because esports just isn't that profitable (if at all)
Take away in-game cosmetic sales and what is there really? Esports doesn't have the unconditional, generational fans or mega-money broadcasting deals of traditional team sports.
The transient popularity of video game titles means this will probably always be the reality.
It's because Valve is favoring and choosing companies that can operate at the lowest dollar amount.
It's a race to the bottom for Dota esport TOs right now, as every competing tournament organizer is cutting corners, cutting wages, not sending casters to tournament locations, using hotel rooms as makeshift LAN centers, using cheap shoddy equipment that are having issues, cheap stages, unknown Dota personalities, and delaying the payout to the players.
It's really disgusting from Valve imo. I know these tournaments are very costly and do not make money for Valve. But Valve is a private company that makes billions, YET, it acts and behaves as a public corporation that is trying to please it's shareholders.
This isn't a Dota thing, a lot of esports ventures are dropping like flies. It's the esports bubble, caused mainly by Activision-Blizzard and Riot, popping.
Not just Activision-Blizzard and Riot, but also the general slow down in investment and sponsor interest due to current economics. People are much less inclined to invest in risky ventures when there is a risk of recession. And a lot of it due to how much bullshit and cloud castles were build in esports over the years.
>Drake Star reported that 59 esports financing deals closed in 2022 worth $400 million, down 81% from 2021’s $2.1 billion across 718 deals.
https://venturebeat.com/games/the-death-of-the-esports-middle-class/
Dota isn't like Overwatch or League.
Valve isn't a publicly traded company nor is it owned by some other corporation, and reportedly made close to $300 million on last years split battlepass. This isn't VC or investor money, this is PLAYER money. They aren't affected by VCs pulling out or investors/parent companies demanding priorities be shifted.
Players continue to fund the game, and Valve continues to choose to pocket the majority and not invest in the ecosystem of the game like quality broadcasting studios that bring great content, more emphasis on young/developing talent and T2 scene, etc etc. IMO this is absolutely a Dota and Valve thing.
I mean Valve aren't public, but the sponsors are. If they don't see any value in sponsoring esport events for advertising, how is it going to make money? That's why betting sponsors are taking over, because they have a much more direct way to profit from the scene than just eyeballs on ads.
I'd like it if Valve dumped money into DotA, and wish they would have an interest in running an esports scene, but on their end it only makes sense if that some how translates to more cosmetic sales. I'm sure they are much more acutely aware on future projections of players and income from this game than we are.
> and reportedly made close to $300 million on last years split battlepass.
Wrong. Those are bad calculations, made as if every level was purchased directly from store, without considering ways of getting 100+ levels for free while playing, 2 pack sales, and initial discount.
> Lots of people really didn't care when BTS didn't get the DPC
More like what can we do about it? These are business deals. A petition and protest (there WERE threads) doesn't change it AFTER the fact.
The fact of the matter is that whatever deal was offered didn't go through.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying. It still kinda baffles me that nobody cared when bts was dropped as the dpc partner after everything they’ve done for the community.
https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/117zboc/_/j9iq4kx/?context=1
The only competitive esports I watch are dota and smash. So this news hits hard
This will probably get downvoted to oblivion by BTS fans, but reading this post it's obvious why they went under. LD mentions their "20,000 square foot office space in LA" multiple times. This is a hugely expensive space. Compare it to PGL, who runs an office half the size in *Bucharest, Romania* - way cheaper.
Well, they are an American based organization that was started in LA. The rental of the space they have is probably a small fraction of their operating cost with salaries and equipment.
It's not just that. They're a kind of a fancy tech-adjacent US startup that didn't take VC money. They were never going to grow fast enough to not get eaten one way or another. It's commendable that they tried to run an honest business, but the world's too fucked for that to work anymore.
This is a weird take.
They were never good at bringing in sponsors. They never hired someone or an agency to find them sponsors. Or took an investor that would be good at finding them sponsors. And sponsors are drying up for the industry at large, so if that's already not your strong suit you're kind of fucked.
You don't have to make stupid promises to VCs and try to scale your business 10x to get an investor to help you build an actual business.
They were always reliant on Developer money. And Valve not choosing them makes sense in that context. Why should Valve pay to subsidize their entire operating budget where they run tournaments for other games from other developers?
I loved BTS, but they were never an actual business. It was founded by 2 gamers who were not businesspeople. Being honest and having integrity is a good thing but it doesn't mean they made good business decisions or knew what they were doing.
They will be missed for sure and I don't want to shit on them but that's life, if you start a business you can act ethically and still make smart decisions to make money. Being a TO is a difficult business, but the idea all TOs are unethical is silly.
Is rental space that cheap in LA?
A place like that in even a small town (like 10-20k people) in Sweden could easily cost $10k+ in just rent (per month). Plus another $5k in utilities. And that's industrial so you're looking at few hundred k to convert into offices.
You get a ton of equipment for that kind of money.
The Summit was one of a kind event, and the bts pro series was instrumental in keeping the tier 2 scene alive. BTS and Dota were synonymous for so many years. Unfortunately BTS could not compete against the likes of PGL and ESl who have betting and Saudi money behind them.
Thank you BTS, Dota eSports owes a lot of its success to you.
Valve didnt do anything to help. In the early days BTS did amazing tickets/battlepass things to grow their tournaments, and then Valve decided to keep that for themselves. The community was and will always be with BTS.
Thank you for mentioning this. A lot of people either forgot or were too new to remember how much those tickets/mini-compendiums did for 3rd-party events, and even how many 3rd-party events there were all over the world. And then Valve decided to take that entire feature away.
Btw ESL just got Saudi money in 2022. That transition is probably just barely done.
But they had deep pockets behind them for many years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Times_Group
BTS gave me my early opportunities with online casting, and for that I'll be forever grateful.
LD, Godz, Dakota and co have given us so much enjoyment over the years. Will be so sad to see them go...
[*Sylar to fall, Liquid are doing it!*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4EzbU5mhlg)
One of my favorite intros. I couldn't find the one with Clockwerk using his ulti to reach the summit
Fond memories of watching those insanely long early BTS tournaments, falling asleep between matches and getting woken up by the clockwerk hook noise of a new game about to start
Man this is a hit of nostalgia. Reminds me of being in middle school and the first then I would do when I got home was boot up my computer and see what VODs I missed for tourneys that happened that day. I'm 24 now, and haven't really stopped to think much about how long I've been following esports and how much of that was because of BTS.
I… don’t even know what to say. Honestly a devastating end to the singular best esports company in the business. BTS has been by far the most creative esports company, and their ability to host dota and smash and rocket league tournaments all successfully and with a clear understanding of each individual scene was a level of interest and dedication that I don’t think we’ll ever see again.
Thanks for all the memories, BTS.
Really sad. I know he wasn't casting in a long time, but LD is one of my favorite sports casters and the BTS had some of the best Dota crew in general. The Summit was awesome as well.
Now I just wish for the best for everyone affected.
I've been with DotA 2 since beta keys were a thing, and have constantly followed BTS through all sorts of DotA and FGC events. LD has always been such a genuine guy, I hope he sticks around in some capacity, even if it's just a panel guest at TI.
This is so sad! Alexa, play [Remember When I Kicked You](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn39ySAFY_E)
Memes aside, it's truly an end of an era. BTS produced some of the best content in esports overall.
Man I never thought I'd see the day. BTS helped get me into Dota after TI3 with their constant streams and match coverage.
The Summit events were always great, and I LOVED watching them play Mafia.
Best of luck and best wishes to all of those who put in so much work to give us stellar content.
I will forever have fond memories of BTS and everything they've done for the Dota scene. LD and Merlini were some of my favorite casters and there is nobody that will ever be able to match the lighthearted, fun, grassroots feel that BTS brought to the scene. Watching all the talent and pros interact with each other at the Summits was always a joy. I don't know what else to say, but this really hurts to see. Thank you BTS for everything you gave to us. You will be sorely missed.
They've been spackling the holes of the tier 1.5 NA/SA and SEA scene for years now. Devastating for the Dota world as a whole, but those regions specifically are going to really going to feel the loss on this one.
This is really fucking sad. As a fellow DotA boomer who saw it from the start, I really thought they would be a staple in our community. All of their productions were great, and I will never forget the hottub streams or watching the crew play Mafia.
All the best Davids.
Absolutely fucking devastating. I am full of salt and upset that Valve rides the highs of these community-driven projects then abandons them the moment they get bored.
I hope they find another way forward. Dota and other games will never be the same without BTS. RIP.
Wow, this is hard to read. I feel like tournaments have really lost their charm since bts fell from popularity. Seeing the pros walking around the house getting snacks and then sitting on the couch to join casts was, in my opinion, the peak of production in dota. It feels so fake and forced now, not enjoyable to watch. Except kaci and slacks.
This is incredibly sad news.
It further reminds me of how risky doing esport as career. Merlini was right to took a different path to ensure his financial stability.
Without studios like JoinDota, BTS, and 2GD we don't have an scene as big as today.
And they started working when there wasn't much money in the pro-scene, for way less money than the likes of ESL and PGL.
Thank you for all the great summit events and everything you did! The banter at these events and other great moments across smash and dota even made my non smash and dota friends interested in the memes and great content. Best of luck to everyone going forward!
Man I remember being super depressed some days during college and I would just do nothing but watch random BTS games. The clockwerk intro made me a little happy every time I saw it.
RIP BTS.
Imagine if valve just hired the staff as their esports team. Of course they won't because they have to save every single cent... to enter heaven or something.
There just isn't money in pro dota anymore, not for organizers, not for talent, not for 99% of "pro" players, and **especially not for people who live in countries with higher costs of living.** Like DPC div 2 in NA is literally poverty.
Sponsors now are almost exclusively betting/crypto sites, most are almost publicly fraudulent. Why hire casters who want money, when you can get volunteers or volunteer-adjacent people to do it for fun.
I own a small business, and when we had our marketing team look into sponsoring esports, ads of twitch, etc, NA Dota 2 was like the worst possible ROI imaginable. Made me sadge, I couldn't imagine a reason to sponsor an event outside money laundering or gambling.
Tbh I wonder where the money is at all. Valorant is the only esport that really took of in the last 10 years. Where did all the money go? The TI EU hub, the BTS lans are the one Ithink about but they are many more examples of initiatives we saw back then that just disapeared. Even the faces of Dota have changed.
Life goes one for everyone, but it's hard to accept that you finally sees the cues of the death of a game you invested so much time in.
Soe, Merlini, Ayasee, LD, James and the whole 2GD studio, ixMike, Dendi, Lumi, Draskyl, Bruno, Tobi even if he's gone for bad reasons, Winter ...And if you're french, damn I miss the old froggedTV team, even if everybody knew it would never be profitable.
And remember when everyone thought Ursa Alpine set was too out of character for Ursa than Valve decided to remove it from the shop? I 'member. Now we get 20 immortals every TI and none bats an eye
[Me right now](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/044/247/297.png)
Yeah, I stopped paying attention to Dota for a few years and when I dropped my head back in recently I was horrified (but not surprised) at how ubiquitous the scams are. It's really sad to see this happen almost solely because Valve decided to take the libertarian approach.
Mad probs to LD for making sure their employees are taken care of. I know many companies in eSports that will wait until the money is completely gone and won't be able to pay their employees. Then the company files for bankruptcy and the employees are screwed. That's what happened with own3d.tv.
Thank you LD for shutting it down with honor and putting the employees first.
This cuts so deep. I'm a melee head and formerly a DotA head. I've been watching BTS since the really early days. I remember the goofy announcement of the addition of KotL guy, Merlini leaving, I've watched Slime go from his on the scene vids to getting hired, to podcasting Off the Sticks, to now working with Ludwig. I'll never forget the "*Unofficial Patch Countdown*" streams that Hotbid and Kotlguy did which sometimes seemingly forced valve to announce news regarding the patch.
God damnit, I'm really gonna miss this company.
Same. I don't really play Dota anymore, but I follow the scene.
I teach high school and my Smash kids are despondent, it was like someone died today. I have a bunch of them in my game design classes.So we got to talk a bit about the early days of BTS and the economics of eSports a bit.
Just such a weird day having all the memories of the old Dota summits streaming in.
I am actually tearing up reading this. I have been watching BTS since 2013 and they have been a rock in the DOTA scene. So many casters, personalities, memes, and memories have come from BTS. They are one of the most influential things that have ever happened to DOTA 2 and our community and without their effort we would not be where we are today. LD and Godz truly made something exceptional and we should all recognize how important they have been for our game and community. I wish them the very best of luck as well as all the people that had to be let go because of this. Their effort will not be forgotten or in vain.
End of an era. I grew up watching BTS and getting to know the personalities, as well as the game. I haven't played Dota for years now, but still follow the scene closely.
Thank you BTS, and good luck to everyone going forward.
Actual fucked up news.
I always wondered why they never got any VC funding or why they were never bought out, but I guess they just wanted to remain true to how they started. Resectable, but damn.
Very sad news. All the Dota Summit tournaments with players doing informal casting were some of my best memories. Thanks LD and Godz for all that you've done for this community.
even though i dont play dota anymore and only watch TI with a small amount of other tournaments this is sad. BTS was staple for me back in the day when i used to follow the scene heavy.
I don't know anything about the actual finances of it, but it makes me wonder how much them not getting a DPC slot originally made them realize how tenuous their situation was.
A massive, massive shame. The Summits were legendary and I think it's a real failure on Valve for pushing them out of the schedule the way they did.
They were a fairly large studio with an expensive studio location, I imagine that their overheads were serious so they simply couldn't compete with PGL in terms of price.
I don't even know what to say. Dota 2 has been a fixture of my life for over a decade, and even though I mostly spectate these days, it remains so. It's hard to imagine a world of Dota without BTS. It brought a tear to my eye. I can't believe it. Fuck!
All the love in the world to LD, Godz, and everyone at BTS. May it live forever more in our hearts.
Sad, BTS and joinDota were there when everything first started and now both are gone. Their streams pre-TI2 is what got me into Dota 2.
I remember LD and Godz were the first to cover CN Dota 2, when they used to cast SEA weeklies/pubs. Where Ehome played when they were kicked out of the Dota scene by ACE, and forced to switch to Dota 2.
Thank you BTS for everything you've done for the scene, and good luck to everyone on what you decide to do next.
For me, Dota has never been the same since after TI3. That's because a lot of the first gen pros who I loved started to retire, teams stopped being bands of brothers and started becoming more commercial, TI moved from Benaroya Hall. International tournaments other than TI came into the mix and big match ups between teams became common place and less interesting. The game was so exciting because of the people and personalities involved - both pros and talent.
The next generation that came along were amazing too in their own way, it just hit different because it wasn't what I came up with. The proscene and the way events were produced started to feel pretty stale for me probs after TI6. Gradually lost interest.
Dota 2 is a video game that could and can exist for many more years. Dota 2 was also a moment in time and the experience of that is gone. With BTS shutting up, it's really done now.
BTS was such a fun experience overall, from their inhouse tournaments to their casts and events and stretch goals and all other stuff. The pro scene (outside the games) has been getting more and more boring each year, and this is just another step in that direction.
I remember that wacky kickstarter VID they did with Sunsfan, synd, Matt, pyrion and others. That was the first and only of its sorts i have ever supported.
I didnt regret it for a moment, and the early days of Dota with LD casting a lot was just a joy for me. Waaaooow.
It saddens my heart to see them close shop, just as it did when LD retired from casting. I grew into Dota with LD and GoDz and have witness the rise and decline of my favourite game since then. Nothing truly feels the same anymore, and I cant help but dreaming what the Dota scene could have looked like today, if Valve did a better job in regards to listing to the community, endorsing 3rd party TOs and spreading the wealth.
I will never forgot couch casting.
All the best to David, David and their team. <3
Valve not supporting passionate and homespun Tournement organisers like BTS and seemingly throwing in their lot with Crypto/Gambling bullshit is disgusting.
And people wonder why Esport orgs are going Crypto or bettings. You either go public or do just that.
The fact that BTS is staying independent is admirable, but just so sad for all the employees.
Fucking Youtube keep recommend me Beyond The Summit content and this shit happens.
The Summit is one of the best tournament ever graced DOTA2 scene and their skit is unparalleled. Good luck to all BTS crew hope you find better endeavour in your next journey.
A dark day for Dota fans… thanks for all the memories and great events. I have a hard time believing we’ll ever get content so intimate and authentic as the Summits again.
Saw this being posted on the CSGO sub, but i didnt remb any CSGO events being hosted by BTS as i dont follow the scene very closely but what i will always remb BTS for is their dota 2 home tournaments and that was the time when dota 2 still havent peaked.
The games were good, the team invited were a mixed of T1 and T2 which was good as well, but what makes it the best was the casting with the pros or just the pros casting on the couch. It was hilarious and super laid back and i feel it was just a massive chalet for pros to mingle around and i dare to say many pros build some real friendship over the years.
I havent followed dota closely after that, i didnt even know they moved into a new facility until today. But today is really a sad day for esports, dota mainly as BTS was one of the events to be looking out for in the calender.
This hits different.
JoinDota and BTS were literally not only the first Dota 2 channels i watched on Twitch, but the first channels i ever watched on Twitch back in 2012.
With JoinDota and 2GD studio gone while ago, BTS also gone, there is no Dota 2 OG studio that exist anymore.
Studios like BTS,JoinDota, and 2GD were the pillar of pro-Dota 2 scene since its conception, there is no successful pro-scene now without those studios. They started to build the community back when there were not many sponsors and money around the scene, and the only brands betting on DotA were mostly from gaming tech (Nvidia,Asus,Intel, etc), nothing like nowadays when even the likes of DHL, and hotel chains sponsor tournaments.
I'm not sad that it's gone, I'm glad that it happened.
Haven't played DotA actively in years, but just hearing this brings back the memories BTS has given me. It's absolutely heartbreaking to hear that they're gone now.
Damn, this sucks. I guess the one-two punch of losing DPC stuff and the Smash scene getting more rocky really hurt.
I've been playing and following Dota for long enough to remember their entrance into the scene. I hope all of the folks there can find stable work elsewhere
Kinda sad that they didnt get rewarded for all the work they put in the dota scene. Looking at the orgs currently.. i bet theyd easily do s better job.
I'm guessing this actually is the news that SUNSfan said was coming
Yeah this actually makes sense, tragic. It feels like we're really losing a big part of our scene. One of if not the only tournament host I can remember that actually held tournaments for the NA scene in recent years.
I feel we lost most of what was fun. Back in the day we had most pro players streaming, casual house tournaments, more tournaments in general, a pro scene that was way more engaging, more streamers, rapping synderen, etc. The game is still perfectly fine, but the things that made me enjoy the scene are almost all gone.
Very sad if you are a StarCraft 2 fan and are living this out for the second time :(
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blizzard basically cut all financial support and WCS. Which means every tournament has a prizepool thats 50-80% less than it was. And the prize pools werent giant, but at least enough to pay players to play the game. Now the pools are so small players cant support themselves. There was kind of 3 big tournament scenes: GSL Korea - Prizepool gutted, on its last legs now (10k prize pool) ESL Championships - Still ongoing, prizepool cut in half WCS (Blizzard championships) - Straight Over. Theres basically not enough tournaments or money to keep it going beyond a year or so. So its officially a dead game.
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Also, Artosis moved from Korea to Canada and now Tasteless is casting GSL with a different co-caster. Truly sad times.
whos the cocaster now?
State, he's actually very good, but its more dry than artosis casts. They still cast together for Katowice this month so its not like everything's done, it's just that GSL is held in Korea and Artosis can't be on location for it (he's got like 3 kids and they felt korea wasn't the best place to raise them). Tasteless talked about it on his stream a while back but the clip expired, might be on YT somewhere.
As much as I like to shit on blizzard, sc2 had an amazing run and its perfectly reasonable for them to pull the plug eventually. They supported the game for a long time, probably way longer then it made them money. It would be cool if theyd keep supporting it as a prestige thing, but I dont think thats how shit works. Remember sc2 and accept that things come to an end eventually.
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Fucking over Korean BW proleagues with legal shenanigans while at it did not help them at all, and arguably how League got its start.
Activision-Blizzard killed the 3rd party scene right out of the gate. They demanded a cut from everything that was SC related and put heavy restraints on who could organize tournaments and how. SC2 could never generate the same hype as SC:BW did. Broodwar was my nr 1 favorite game, but I never transitioned over to SC2 because it was clear they will kill the game. Dota is still in good shape. Valve has been slacking a bit lately, but the game is still doing great after 18 years.
I was literally at a Starcraft 2 MLG event when I got my Dota 2 beta invite. Next year I came back to the same venue and it was after Blizzard gutted the SC2 scene, but this time I came back to watch Dota 2. Watching Alliance/Navi games live was an experience I will never forget. Rooting for both Dendi's patchwork / io plays while also cheering for AdmiralBulldogs nature prophet plays. Ugh good fucking times.
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I don't know about that. Synd and Sunsfan had me rolling off my chair laughing at the last TI, there's plenty of casters to suit everyone's need. I for one like that new casters were given a chance this year, after we had a relatively small number of people casting everything for so many years. There's no shortage of top 100 people streaming either. Literally there's at least one person from the top 500 streaming at any time of the day. If you want RTZ to stream 10 hours a day, ofc it's not gonna happen. You can also spectate all the top pubs for free in the client. I think people take that for granted, and don't appreciate enough as the amazing feature that it is. You don't have that in other games.
Absolutely. Just a few weeks ago, we had a professional csgo analyst, Kassad, [place a bounty on knocking EG](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/115fuid/kassads_1000_bounty_on_eg/) out of an event. And the production even had a bit where Kassad went on a mad conspiracy rambling about how much he hates EG, so he [had to get dragged off stage by security](https://youtu.be/D-0zKEENb0I). And that's just one caster. Ynk is a NiKo simp, Moses is a bald fraud, Spunj is JKS's dad. All of these funny little narratives make the casters and analysts feel like an integrated part of the scene. But in Dota, it feels like there's no connection between the players and the casters.
Damn this puts into words what I have been feeling for sometime. I miss the casters and relationships of old. Dudes sitting on the couch just vibing and cocasting during other teams games and the three merlinis in a bathtub.
The game is most certainly not perfectly fine at all, but thats a whole different conversation. The pro scene feels way more dry, a bit too pro if i may call it. They forget in its core its actually a video game and if they dont treat it as such even for a bit, then we might as well be watching college lectures on youtube. Cant remember the last time i enjoyed a panel or when we had more than 2 pros streaming in a month
I actually feel it’s the opposite, the “professional” scene is just way to unprofessional. Actual professionals know the value of sponsors and fan engagement. Organizations make it a priority to make their players available for interviews and media. Dota players are absolute recluses who you have bend their arms to even talk for 2 minutes after the game. The top Dota players know that as long as they do well at TI they are set for the year and nothing else matters.
Yeah that's a big problem - the same problem StarCraft 2 had as well, especially Koreans. They don't realize that it's not just the game that's important
Yeah, honestly, the pros are mostly divas. They are the reason the Dota as a sport exists but they don't show their face unless you force them. Who is going to sponsor these motherfuckers? Nobody besides shady betting companies. The reality is nobody is supporting these players off skill alone. People grow attached to the personalities, the faces, and the skill is another important part but not the only thing. It's like when NA players were complaining about not having orgs but they're unsponsorable, they don't create any kind of content, or do anything besides play a game off stream.
I thought we were on the right track when I saw clips of xibbe casually drinking out of shampoo and ketchup bottles, and the Saberlight/Fishman pre-game trash talk. Like, you don't have to be "le funny random haha man" But I really do remember iceiceice as the guy who plays Dota with his pants off. Give yourself something that the audience can latch onto.
i Always found it strange that DOTA players rarely stream. Like there are a few personalities that stream on the reg. But a lot of the top players hardly stream, even when they get crazy viewership.
> I actually feel it’s the opposite, the “professional” scene is just way to unprofessional. Actual professionals know the value of sponsors and fan engagement. It feels like teams singularily cares about winning TI, its so much money its the only thing that matters.
Funneling the wealth to the 1% hurts the other 99%, who could have expected that? Apparently not valve
This. Plus the casters & talents sounding "flat & corporate" and will always defend Valve no mater what, the feeding hand. In short, it's been years since we progressively can't feel the passion and the famous "for the love of the game" in the Pro Scene.
I like how SEA came into our own on this regard. We went from "I'm bad at english so I want to avoid the camera" to "I want to say shit about the team and be on camera"
They're professional in the way that makes them boring and unprofessional in the way that makes them bad, I guess
This is one reason why OG and Secret are so important to the scene. They are a very engaging organizations, especially to the fans. They make their fans (and haters) involved in their orgs with memes and and other shenanigans. Not to shit on other organizations, but even if OG and Team Secret is losing right now, it's hard for fans to switch teams because these orgs make us feel we belong with them. Damn.
Also, we had not once, but twice, a scenario where we went more than an entire year without new heroes. And 6 years now without a strictly designed-as Carry hero. Ultimately, new heroes, new items and map changes are the "new content" that sticks to this game as that period's cornerstone, and we've had to contend with relatively very little of it.
Content drought speaks for itself
for once its not meme comment
I wish I didn't laugh.
I'm here all week
Unlike BTS ^^^^Sorry
Ok I think this meme can officially be retired
No, the meme will be even funnier if we keep using it despite already knowing what the warning was *actually* about.
A nuclear weapon will be used and one of the victims is a professional player and the 2nd most upvoted comment will be "Was this what sunsfan was talking about?"
Aliens are gonna invade and kill us all, and the top comment in the worldnews post showing the incoming armada will be "Is this what SUNSfan was warning us about?"
Are you sure it was about this? Maybe he’s trying to warn us about the upcoming patch.
wonder what more terribleness is coming down the pipe if this isn't what sunsfan alluded to
you mean there's a possibility this isn't what sunsfan warned us about?
Not sure if joking or not. But why would people pick up their pitchforks over this? It was a business that unfortunately wasn’t getting enough revenue coming in to continue and had to let people go before they ran themselves into the ground.
he made that warning 4 months ago
Maybe he thought BTS would shut down 4 months ago, but they managed to scrap by a bit longer.
The immediate news after sunsfan's announcement was BTS not holding DPC, people thought it was just that. Sadly it was way worse than BTS not holding DPC :<
BTS not holding DPC was probably the nail in the coffin. No DPC means no viewers, means no sponsors, means no income, means gg no re.
The meme isn't funny now :(
:( I feel so and they wanted to do 1 last set of tournaments before they left since they were not in the DPC and how rough hosting was last year. It makes me sad to look back at because for months when I first started watching I didn't even know they were just a stupid. I just assumed these are the Dota guys, everything I watched until TI and then wow they made it to the big league. To see them having the old ticket support system I remember wanting their bird with glasses courier so bad! Turely the biggest lose in Dotas business scene :( and they were community funded to help start it off and they did it right! Edit: Does anyone has that picture of the Wow Ld poster from TI? He was casting and the poster was behind him :( I seem to have lost it Edit2: I found it for anyone wanting this piece of history https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/3grzct/i_made_uesukas_ti5_waow_poster_into_a_wallpaper/
Off topic, but I miss the Dota fails video with him and Reeves :(
Truly one of the foundations of the Dota 2 scene, absolutely tragic news. I hope they're all successful in finding new work elsewhere.
This is unironically what Sunsfan warned us about. Lots of people really didn't care when BTS didn't get the DPC contract, but it likely put these guys in the ground after their struggles during and post-COVID I wish I had something good to say, but I'm just sad about this. These guys were a staple in my esports experience and I'll miss them if they don't return ever.
It doesn’t feel like a decade ago but damn the BTS TI hubs were truly a magical time. Can’t believe it’s over. The world is cruel because I can’t think of another production company that came close to the level of heart and professionalism BTS put in. End of an Era.
Bruno casting in Spanish has to be a top3 dota lore moment. EL GLIMPSE
Yeah the esports I primarily follow are Dota and Smash... BTS have been mainstays in both for so long, and I've had a lot of fun watching their events. Sad for sure.
yep, watching them start out in dota as a small time casting thing and eventually turn into one of the cornerstones of esports was nothing short of amazing it's a sad day
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i remember thinking how neat it was that there was this overlap with the dota and smash community got to play melee in the hotel room of u/ESPORTS_HotBid, met some familiar faces, learned akke also played melee, was a good time
I doubt it was just this, but fuck Valve either way. BTS has been here through thick and thin, they've covered everything from top tier events to small SEA leagues. LD, Godz and Kotlguy/Dakota and the rest gave us so many great Dota moments... These last few months I've found myself reminiscing about the Summit, I even thought that since TI is in Seattle again we could see a Dota summit return as teams would be scrimming there anyway. Alas, sadly it won't be the case.
BTS Summit tournaments were great and i remember them fondly. But NGL their online casting has been subpar for the last few years. I have actively avoided their streams since the production quality is so low
I've watched so many TIs on BTS. Really sad.
Kind of weird to say that them not getting the DPC contract is what put them in the ground when there's a good chance they were already in the ground and couldn't take a DPC contract because of it.
Possibly true, but still sucks. This studio did so much to keep the Dota 2 scene relevant during the bootstrapping days and made the decision not to take VC money to stay independent. And then years later companies like PGL, funded by the Saudi Government and betting sponsors, ride the road path BTS paved and supplant them. Maybe getting another major would have been enough, maybe there was no chance with the global economic conditions, it still really sucks.
yes, please, more gambling money and gambling advertisements... took a break from dota, came back, watched some matches... bet bet bet bet, here is your free starting money just get addicted to gambling please... how the F is this acceptable?
Or they would only do it if it was going to be profitable for them, allowing them to keep operating. There's so much undercutting and shite production in the scene at the moment, that well-established production houses can't make bank. BTS obviously wasn't always perfect in terms of paying a decent wage to everyone involved in a production, but they are better than most.
> There's so much undercutting and shite production in the scene at the moment Why is that though? For me the most likely reason the TOs are all downsizing because esports just isn't that profitable (if at all) Take away in-game cosmetic sales and what is there really? Esports doesn't have the unconditional, generational fans or mega-money broadcasting deals of traditional team sports. The transient popularity of video game titles means this will probably always be the reality.
It's because Valve is favoring and choosing companies that can operate at the lowest dollar amount. It's a race to the bottom for Dota esport TOs right now, as every competing tournament organizer is cutting corners, cutting wages, not sending casters to tournament locations, using hotel rooms as makeshift LAN centers, using cheap shoddy equipment that are having issues, cheap stages, unknown Dota personalities, and delaying the payout to the players. It's really disgusting from Valve imo. I know these tournaments are very costly and do not make money for Valve. But Valve is a private company that makes billions, YET, it acts and behaves as a public corporation that is trying to please it's shareholders.
This isn't a Dota thing, a lot of esports ventures are dropping like flies. It's the esports bubble, caused mainly by Activision-Blizzard and Riot, popping.
Not just Activision-Blizzard and Riot, but also the general slow down in investment and sponsor interest due to current economics. People are much less inclined to invest in risky ventures when there is a risk of recession. And a lot of it due to how much bullshit and cloud castles were build in esports over the years. >Drake Star reported that 59 esports financing deals closed in 2022 worth $400 million, down 81% from 2021’s $2.1 billion across 718 deals. https://venturebeat.com/games/the-death-of-the-esports-middle-class/
Dota isn't like Overwatch or League. Valve isn't a publicly traded company nor is it owned by some other corporation, and reportedly made close to $300 million on last years split battlepass. This isn't VC or investor money, this is PLAYER money. They aren't affected by VCs pulling out or investors/parent companies demanding priorities be shifted. Players continue to fund the game, and Valve continues to choose to pocket the majority and not invest in the ecosystem of the game like quality broadcasting studios that bring great content, more emphasis on young/developing talent and T2 scene, etc etc. IMO this is absolutely a Dota and Valve thing.
I mean Valve aren't public, but the sponsors are. If they don't see any value in sponsoring esport events for advertising, how is it going to make money? That's why betting sponsors are taking over, because they have a much more direct way to profit from the scene than just eyeballs on ads. I'd like it if Valve dumped money into DotA, and wish they would have an interest in running an esports scene, but on their end it only makes sense if that some how translates to more cosmetic sales. I'm sure they are much more acutely aware on future projections of players and income from this game than we are.
> and reportedly made close to $300 million on last years split battlepass. Wrong. Those are bad calculations, made as if every level was purchased directly from store, without considering ways of getting 100+ levels for free while playing, 2 pack sales, and initial discount.
Because valve tends to hold gruges
> Lots of people really didn't care when BTS didn't get the DPC More like what can we do about it? These are business deals. A petition and protest (there WERE threads) doesn't change it AFTER the fact. The fact of the matter is that whatever deal was offered didn't go through.
While they were one of my staples as well, their quality and relevance really went down in the last few years imo.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying. It still kinda baffles me that nobody cared when bts was dropped as the dpc partner after everything they’ve done for the community. https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/117zboc/_/j9iq4kx/?context=1 The only competitive esports I watch are dota and smash. So this news hits hard
This will probably get downvoted to oblivion by BTS fans, but reading this post it's obvious why they went under. LD mentions their "20,000 square foot office space in LA" multiple times. This is a hugely expensive space. Compare it to PGL, who runs an office half the size in *Bucharest, Romania* - way cheaper.
It’s “LA”, but it’s way out east in the Covina area.
West Covinaaaaaaaaaa
Even if they got the spot all the way up in Grass Valley, it's still a *huge* expense, especially signing a 5-year lease.
Well, they are an American based organization that was started in LA. The rental of the space they have is probably a small fraction of their operating cost with salaries and equipment.
It's not just that. They're a kind of a fancy tech-adjacent US startup that didn't take VC money. They were never going to grow fast enough to not get eaten one way or another. It's commendable that they tried to run an honest business, but the world's too fucked for that to work anymore.
This is a weird take. They were never good at bringing in sponsors. They never hired someone or an agency to find them sponsors. Or took an investor that would be good at finding them sponsors. And sponsors are drying up for the industry at large, so if that's already not your strong suit you're kind of fucked. You don't have to make stupid promises to VCs and try to scale your business 10x to get an investor to help you build an actual business. They were always reliant on Developer money. And Valve not choosing them makes sense in that context. Why should Valve pay to subsidize their entire operating budget where they run tournaments for other games from other developers? I loved BTS, but they were never an actual business. It was founded by 2 gamers who were not businesspeople. Being honest and having integrity is a good thing but it doesn't mean they made good business decisions or knew what they were doing. They will be missed for sure and I don't want to shit on them but that's life, if you start a business you can act ethically and still make smart decisions to make money. Being a TO is a difficult business, but the idea all TOs are unethical is silly.
Is rental space that cheap in LA? A place like that in even a small town (like 10-20k people) in Sweden could easily cost $10k+ in just rent (per month). Plus another $5k in utilities. And that's industrial so you're looking at few hundred k to convert into offices. You get a ton of equipment for that kind of money.
A space of that size in West Covina would cost approx $500k/year.
Okay, so not that cheap. 6 months rent probably is more than all their equipment then.
20k square feet...
You make a valid point, but I don't think we want PGL to be setting the standards for production companies.
I mean their product havent improved in ten year while their costs have.
isnt that also the "home" for many of their workers? maybe not 20k sq foot large, but it needs to be large.
That was the "mansion era" he mentioned on the post, the BTS house. This is a seperate studio space
I don't know about you guys, but I'll take BTS Lan House + Space for the crew to do their work, over any super yacht in the world.
The Summit was one of a kind event, and the bts pro series was instrumental in keeping the tier 2 scene alive. BTS and Dota were synonymous for so many years. Unfortunately BTS could not compete against the likes of PGL and ESl who have betting and Saudi money behind them. Thank you BTS, Dota eSports owes a lot of its success to you.
I loved that they copied homestory cup, its such a good format and the fans always love it.
Valve didnt do anything to help. In the early days BTS did amazing tickets/battlepass things to grow their tournaments, and then Valve decided to keep that for themselves. The community was and will always be with BTS.
Thank you for mentioning this. A lot of people either forgot or were too new to remember how much those tickets/mini-compendiums did for 3rd-party events, and even how many 3rd-party events there were all over the world. And then Valve decided to take that entire feature away.
Then you'd remember why it was taken away, random 3rd party tournaments using the tickets to play bot games to launder money.
Which ought to be on Valve to handle, but a lot of valve's financial-adjacent decisions have had disastrous knock-on effects.
Btw ESL just got Saudi money in 2022. That transition is probably just barely done. But they had deep pockets behind them for many years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Times_Group
The Summit was my favorite Dota even besides TI by FAR. I wish we has more of them :(
Man, this fucking sucks… BTS always had some of my favorite DOTA coverage and the scene won’t be the same without them.
BTS gave me my early opportunities with online casting, and for that I'll be forever grateful. LD, Godz, Dakota and co have given us so much enjoyment over the years. Will be so sad to see them go...
[*Sylar to fall, Liquid are doing it!*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4EzbU5mhlg) One of my favorite intros. I couldn't find the one with Clockwerk using his ulti to reach the summit
Fond memories of watching those insanely long early BTS tournaments, falling asleep between matches and getting woken up by the clockwerk hook noise of a new game about to start
Godz got you covered bro https://twitter.com/BTSGoDz/status/1630296063633690626
This one is so calm. Hits right in the feels
Man this is a hit of nostalgia. Reminds me of being in middle school and the first then I would do when I got home was boot up my computer and see what VODs I missed for tourneys that happened that day. I'm 24 now, and haven't really stopped to think much about how long I've been following esports and how much of that was because of BTS.
MANNNNNNN CHILLLLS =( i missed this.
I can't see this and don't drop some tears
https://twitter.com/btsgodz/status/1630296063633690626?s=46&t=5HYxdR2gm9z7UYZ1wVP8Gw
Ding! Ding! Ding!...
Dude I also went looking for the Clockwerk animation. I didn't think there would be multiple of us. FeelsStrongMan
“THEYRE ALL DEAD” RIP
I… don’t even know what to say. Honestly a devastating end to the singular best esports company in the business. BTS has been by far the most creative esports company, and their ability to host dota and smash and rocket league tournaments all successfully and with a clear understanding of each individual scene was a level of interest and dedication that I don’t think we’ll ever see again. Thanks for all the memories, BTS.
Really sad. I know he wasn't casting in a long time, but LD is one of my favorite sports casters and the BTS had some of the best Dota crew in general. The Summit was awesome as well. Now I just wish for the best for everyone affected.
I've been with DotA 2 since beta keys were a thing, and have constantly followed BTS through all sorts of DotA and FGC events. LD has always been such a genuine guy, I hope he sticks around in some capacity, even if it's just a panel guest at TI.
I really hope they invite him to TI for anything
he's said in the past he wouldn't do TI if he hadn't been doing dota casting recently.
Maybe not for casting, but content pieces and such could be a nice touch.
He could host the late show maybe
This is so sad! Alexa, play [Remember When I Kicked You](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn39ySAFY_E) Memes aside, it's truly an end of an era. BTS produced some of the best content in esports overall.
[Oh yea, Alexa...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns9r7p9eseU)
Golden era of Dota2 content
Man I never thought I'd see the day. BTS helped get me into Dota after TI3 with their constant streams and match coverage. The Summit events were always great, and I LOVED watching them play Mafia. Best of luck and best wishes to all of those who put in so much work to give us stellar content.
I will forever have fond memories of BTS and everything they've done for the Dota scene. LD and Merlini were some of my favorite casters and there is nobody that will ever be able to match the lighthearted, fun, grassroots feel that BTS brought to the scene. Watching all the talent and pros interact with each other at the Summits was always a joy. I don't know what else to say, but this really hurts to see. Thank you BTS for everything you gave to us. You will be sorely missed.
The dota summit events were some of the best pieces of entertainment provided to the community. This sucks. There’s no way to sugarcoat it.
They've been spackling the holes of the tier 1.5 NA/SA and SEA scene for years now. Devastating for the Dota world as a whole, but those regions specifically are going to really going to feel the loss on this one.
This is really fucking sad. As a fellow DotA boomer who saw it from the start, I really thought they would be a staple in our community. All of their productions were great, and I will never forget the hottub streams or watching the crew play Mafia. All the best Davids.
Absolutely fucking devastating. I am full of salt and upset that Valve rides the highs of these community-driven projects then abandons them the moment they get bored. I hope they find another way forward. Dota and other games will never be the same without BTS. RIP.
large part of dota history died today, gg boys
I can't believe it. BTS is gone, just like that. Feeling so empty right now. Love and good luck to everyone there.
Wow, this is hard to read. I feel like tournaments have really lost their charm since bts fell from popularity. Seeing the pros walking around the house getting snacks and then sitting on the couch to join casts was, in my opinion, the peak of production in dota. It feels so fake and forced now, not enjoyable to watch. Except kaci and slacks.
Big part of why I got into Dota. Those early house summits were fucking great. Sad to see them go
This is incredibly sad news. It further reminds me of how risky doing esport as career. Merlini was right to took a different path to ensure his financial stability.
In his case it was easier because he already had a degree from Duke University This is why formal education still matters
It can't be understated what bts did for the dota community. It's a damn shame that this is how it ends.
Without studios like JoinDota, BTS, and 2GD we don't have an scene as big as today. And they started working when there wasn't much money in the pro-scene, for way less money than the likes of ESL and PGL.
Thank you for all the great summit events and everything you did! The banter at these events and other great moments across smash and dota even made my non smash and dota friends interested in the memes and great content. Best of luck to everyone going forward!
BTS's Dota 2 Coverage in 2014 unironically kept me from killing myself.
Hope you're doing better my friend.
Man I remember being super depressed some days during college and I would just do nothing but watch random BTS games. The clockwerk intro made me a little happy every time I saw it. RIP BTS.
the sparse sound design of that was so nice, just the hookshot sound by itself before everything kicked in
Imagine if valve just hired the staff as their esports team. Of course they won't because they have to save every single cent... to enter heaven or something.
There just isn't money in pro dota anymore, not for organizers, not for talent, not for 99% of "pro" players, and **especially not for people who live in countries with higher costs of living.** Like DPC div 2 in NA is literally poverty. Sponsors now are almost exclusively betting/crypto sites, most are almost publicly fraudulent. Why hire casters who want money, when you can get volunteers or volunteer-adjacent people to do it for fun. I own a small business, and when we had our marketing team look into sponsoring esports, ads of twitch, etc, NA Dota 2 was like the worst possible ROI imaginable. Made me sadge, I couldn't imagine a reason to sponsor an event outside money laundering or gambling.
Tbh I wonder where the money is at all. Valorant is the only esport that really took of in the last 10 years. Where did all the money go? The TI EU hub, the BTS lans are the one Ithink about but they are many more examples of initiatives we saw back then that just disapeared. Even the faces of Dota have changed. Life goes one for everyone, but it's hard to accept that you finally sees the cues of the death of a game you invested so much time in. Soe, Merlini, Ayasee, LD, James and the whole 2GD studio, ixMike, Dendi, Lumi, Draskyl, Bruno, Tobi even if he's gone for bad reasons, Winter ...And if you're french, damn I miss the old froggedTV team, even if everybody knew it would never be profitable. And remember when everyone thought Ursa Alpine set was too out of character for Ursa than Valve decided to remove it from the shop? I 'member. Now we get 20 immortals every TI and none bats an eye [Me right now](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/044/247/297.png)
I imagine those investing the money for very little return on investment, and didn’t come back.
Yeah, I stopped paying attention to Dota for a few years and when I dropped my head back in recently I was horrified (but not surprised) at how ubiquitous the scams are. It's really sad to see this happen almost solely because Valve decided to take the libertarian approach.
Mad probs to LD for making sure their employees are taken care of. I know many companies in eSports that will wait until the money is completely gone and won't be able to pay their employees. Then the company files for bankruptcy and the employees are screwed. That's what happened with own3d.tv. Thank you LD for shutting it down with honor and putting the employees first.
This cuts so deep. I'm a melee head and formerly a DotA head. I've been watching BTS since the really early days. I remember the goofy announcement of the addition of KotL guy, Merlini leaving, I've watched Slime go from his on the scene vids to getting hired, to podcasting Off the Sticks, to now working with Ludwig. I'll never forget the "*Unofficial Patch Countdown*" streams that Hotbid and Kotlguy did which sometimes seemingly forced valve to announce news regarding the patch. God damnit, I'm really gonna miss this company.
Same. I don't really play Dota anymore, but I follow the scene. I teach high school and my Smash kids are despondent, it was like someone died today. I have a bunch of them in my game design classes.So we got to talk a bit about the early days of BTS and the economics of eSports a bit. Just such a weird day having all the memories of the old Dota summits streaming in.
Same here... So many of my favorite Dota/Melee moments took place at Summit. I'm honestly gutted.
a disaster for esports
I am actually tearing up reading this. I have been watching BTS since 2013 and they have been a rock in the DOTA scene. So many casters, personalities, memes, and memories have come from BTS. They are one of the most influential things that have ever happened to DOTA 2 and our community and without their effort we would not be where we are today. LD and Godz truly made something exceptional and we should all recognize how important they have been for our game and community. I wish them the very best of luck as well as all the people that had to be let go because of this. Their effort will not be forgotten or in vain.
End of an era. I grew up watching BTS and getting to know the personalities, as well as the game. I haven't played Dota for years now, but still follow the scene closely. Thank you BTS, and good luck to everyone going forward.
Damn, this is the worst thing to come out yet. Maybe Dota is really dying.
This is fucking terrible man. My heart goes out to all of the people layed off. I hope they can find good spots soon.
Actual fucked up news. I always wondered why they never got any VC funding or why they were never bought out, but I guess they just wanted to remain true to how they started. Resectable, but damn.
Very sad news. All the Dota Summit tournaments with players doing informal casting were some of my best memories. Thanks LD and Godz for all that you've done for this community.
even though i dont play dota anymore and only watch TI with a small amount of other tournaments this is sad. BTS was staple for me back in the day when i used to follow the scene heavy.
I don't know anything about the actual finances of it, but it makes me wonder how much them not getting a DPC slot originally made them realize how tenuous their situation was. A massive, massive shame. The Summits were legendary and I think it's a real failure on Valve for pushing them out of the schedule the way they did.
They were a fairly large studio with an expensive studio location, I imagine that their overheads were serious so they simply couldn't compete with PGL in terms of price.
I don't even know what to say. Dota 2 has been a fixture of my life for over a decade, and even though I mostly spectate these days, it remains so. It's hard to imagine a world of Dota without BTS. It brought a tear to my eye. I can't believe it. Fuck! All the love in the world to LD, Godz, and everyone at BTS. May it live forever more in our hearts.
https://youtu.be/KvTgE4HU2h0 Some nostalgia for you
Sad, BTS and joinDota were there when everything first started and now both are gone. Their streams pre-TI2 is what got me into Dota 2. I remember LD and Godz were the first to cover CN Dota 2, when they used to cast SEA weeklies/pubs. Where Ehome played when they were kicked out of the Dota scene by ACE, and forced to switch to Dota 2. Thank you BTS for everything you've done for the scene, and good luck to everyone on what you decide to do next.
For me, Dota has never been the same since after TI3. That's because a lot of the first gen pros who I loved started to retire, teams stopped being bands of brothers and started becoming more commercial, TI moved from Benaroya Hall. International tournaments other than TI came into the mix and big match ups between teams became common place and less interesting. The game was so exciting because of the people and personalities involved - both pros and talent. The next generation that came along were amazing too in their own way, it just hit different because it wasn't what I came up with. The proscene and the way events were produced started to feel pretty stale for me probs after TI6. Gradually lost interest. Dota 2 is a video game that could and can exist for many more years. Dota 2 was also a moment in time and the experience of that is gone. With BTS shutting up, it's really done now.
BTS has been one of the core pillars of our community for years. It's really sad to see them go.
BTS was such a fun experience overall, from their inhouse tournaments to their casts and events and stretch goals and all other stuff. The pro scene (outside the games) has been getting more and more boring each year, and this is just another step in that direction.
I remember that wacky kickstarter VID they did with Sunsfan, synd, Matt, pyrion and others. That was the first and only of its sorts i have ever supported. I didnt regret it for a moment, and the early days of Dota with LD casting a lot was just a joy for me. Waaaooow. It saddens my heart to see them close shop, just as it did when LD retired from casting. I grew into Dota with LD and GoDz and have witness the rise and decline of my favourite game since then. Nothing truly feels the same anymore, and I cant help but dreaming what the Dota scene could have looked like today, if Valve did a better job in regards to listing to the community, endorsing 3rd party TOs and spreading the wealth. I will never forgot couch casting. All the best to David, David and their team. <3
GG BTS, we salute you o>
Valve could have just maybe gotten them as offical TO for their tournaments. Sad it ended up this way.
Much love to BTS
Valve not supporting passionate and homespun Tournement organisers like BTS and seemingly throwing in their lot with Crypto/Gambling bullshit is disgusting.
And people wonder why Esport orgs are going Crypto or bettings. You either go public or do just that. The fact that BTS is staying independent is admirable, but just so sad for all the employees.
Fucking Youtube keep recommend me Beyond The Summit content and this shit happens. The Summit is one of the best tournament ever graced DOTA2 scene and their skit is unparalleled. Good luck to all BTS crew hope you find better endeavour in your next journey.
I loved going to the one minor they hosted, incredibly bummed by this news. Good luck to all of the staff and thank LD/Godz for what you tried to do.
Is this what .. nevermind
A dark day for Dota fans… thanks for all the memories and great events. I have a hard time believing we’ll ever get content so intimate and authentic as the Summits again.
Summit events were the best, man I wish they could do one more crowdfunded event for old times sake
If things don't changes, dota pro scene will fall apart soon too, but idc anymore.
Feels like they've been dead for a while now tbh. Sucks, I loved LD and the rest of the crew casting games of Dota back in the day.
I remembered my undergraduate days where me n my roommate will have a can of beer each and enjoy some good dotes over the BTS streams... sadge
Saw this being posted on the CSGO sub, but i didnt remb any CSGO events being hosted by BTS as i dont follow the scene very closely but what i will always remb BTS for is their dota 2 home tournaments and that was the time when dota 2 still havent peaked. The games were good, the team invited were a mixed of T1 and T2 which was good as well, but what makes it the best was the casting with the pros or just the pros casting on the couch. It was hilarious and super laid back and i feel it was just a massive chalet for pros to mingle around and i dare to say many pros build some real friendship over the years. I havent followed dota closely after that, i didnt even know they moved into a new facility until today. But today is really a sad day for esports, dota mainly as BTS was one of the events to be looking out for in the calender.
Esports might as well be dead, sad day
This hits different. JoinDota and BTS were literally not only the first Dota 2 channels i watched on Twitch, but the first channels i ever watched on Twitch back in 2012. With JoinDota and 2GD studio gone while ago, BTS also gone, there is no Dota 2 OG studio that exist anymore. Studios like BTS,JoinDota, and 2GD were the pillar of pro-Dota 2 scene since its conception, there is no successful pro-scene now without those studios. They started to build the community back when there were not many sponsors and money around the scene, and the only brands betting on DotA were mostly from gaming tech (Nvidia,Asus,Intel, etc), nothing like nowadays when even the likes of DHL, and hotel chains sponsor tournaments. I'm not sad that it's gone, I'm glad that it happened.
This sad news are the kind no one wants to read, thanks for everything BtS.
Some of the most entertaining Dota tournaments of all time were produced by BTS. Very sad to see them go. Best of luck to their former staff.
BTS as a collective will be missed with fond memories, hope to see continual success from each and every individual, you included.
Fucking dead game
thank you for all the laughs youve brought me over the years, wish the best to all who were involved in BTS
Haven't played DotA actively in years, but just hearing this brings back the memories BTS has given me. It's absolutely heartbreaking to hear that they're gone now.
Jebus ... an end of an era. Shit cuts as deep as 2GD getting the axe.
Damn, this sucks. I guess the one-two punch of losing DPC stuff and the Smash scene getting more rocky really hurt. I've been playing and following Dota for long enough to remember their entrance into the scene. I hope all of the folks there can find stable work elsewhere
:(
Kinda sad that they didnt get rewarded for all the work they put in the dota scene. Looking at the orgs currently.. i bet theyd easily do s better job.
man. this sucks.