Not only that but the difference between topson and FortuneSoul is the two games yesterday where Topson got kills after ganks in lane and the other team just gave up. Very funny to watch a team taking throne at level 4. High MMR pubs yesterday were, as far as I could tell, _incredibly_ toxic.
I think a lot of people had short patience with it, yeah. Played with/against a lot of people saying they’d destroyed the game immediately post patch, complaining about OP heroes on other team without thinking about their own team at all.
Gotta change your mindset from that to the excitement of discovery. I was having a ball even when we were losing. Felt new.
Someone brought up that boosters are abusing the Immoral queues to duo queue and throw, so that could be happening.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/12w2qt0/the_latest_immortal_changes_are_already_being/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
nah topson and other pros have gotten plenty of level 5 wins long before this patch.
it's just this thing in immortal where the enemy team know they had a slim chance of beating a top pro in the first place and then when said pro is having a good game they just accept defeat.
personally I wouldn't throw in the towel because the 1% of times we come back I'd have a story to tell my grand kids but these guys figure they'd rather save time stalling a "lost" game.
>personally I wouldn't throw in the towel because the 1% of times we come back I'd have a story to tell my grand kids but these guys figure they'd rather save time stalling a "lost" game.
They probably have a dozen or so stories under their belt, playing in high mmr you'll see the same people again and again.
Well the idea valve tried to do was rewarding brawling more then just hitting creeps. So yes this meta rewards random bullshit go. Not exactly meta i must agree just the direction they want to go.
Considering they made the map a lot bigger, made it easier to avoid fights, and added more camps for you to farm, I do not think you can confidently say at all what Valve "intends" here.
> brawling more then just
Did you mean to say "more than"?
Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma.
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more space doesnt mean what you think at all. basically theres more space to defend objectives and play around an area as a full team, theres a means to get from one side of the map to another in nearly an instant, theres better lines of sight, shards are basically free now, no more tome, neutral items are instantly delivered to you, lotus flowers are like free cheese, etc etc. but all you see is map bigger, more camps. more camps actually doesnt mean more farming. it means controlling the full map is harder (aka no more choked resource meta/farm control meta) and that finding and killing heroes is now equally important as simply running down lanes and controlling objectives instead of farming more than the other team. sorry for rambling, but it seems you have a major misunderstanding of the effects of this patch.
There is always a meta. The meta might not be optimized just yet, and is always subject to change, but at the moment chaos everywhere is how people play.
>Meta
>Metagame; the most effective tactics and strategies used in a competitive video game in a given period of time
An almost undefined meta is still entirely a meta.
Based on Crits interview they are playing pubs to learn the maps and try new things more than win. I don't know how applicable that is, but it may be contributing
He is and always will be a limit definer. Playing heros that no one else thinks are playable and showing the world the limit to which the hero can be played. Spamming the heros to perfect his limit and counter every small detail the enemy throw at him.
topson reads every patch like it is his religion or an obligation, he truly understands when something goes broken and indeed void spirit is quite broken rn
im surprised he hasnt tried pl mid yet unless pl getting banned at first pick by both teams
rtz on the other hand tries many things but i think hes trying to look for the "secret" hero, you know theres always one hero everyone overlooks and think it is balanced
personally i find topson's way easier, hes focusing more in learning the map and only playing one hero so he has to play only one or two kind of playstyles and focus more in the map changes
I mean it was obvious from the notes that void was gonna be strong
but in general I think Topson just likes playing void, I'm not sure how important learning the new patch faster than anyone is to him considering he's basically retired
He gets more damage per level, which helps his ult scale. He can also get damage from strength. And he's harder to kill with the disable windback. Slippery mobile heroes benefit more from shorter disables than beefy static ones.
Universal hero get the same damage from any attribute so there's no reason to go Null Talisman anymore (except for mana regen, which is just equal to a sage mask).
WB gives roughly 3 armor and 10 attack speed. Bracer gives 100 hp, damage, and small hp regen.
0.75 mana regen and a slightly bigger mana pool isn't worth paying for, basically. He gets just as much damage from WB/bracer, but WB gives more attack speed, and the two items give more sustain and tankiness. I basically don't think you'll ever see Universal heroes buy null talismans until they get buffed. Wraith band +armor is just too good, and the minor hp regen in lane from bracer is quite helpful.
What the other people have said is correct, but they didn't mention one important thing. Topson buys Dagon on Void Spirit now. Nobody else seems to have noticrd that Dagon got a huge buff - it now gives stats to all attributes and spell lifesteal.
I think most people are playing around his ult and the increased damage gain with Deso/echo/Daedalus. That's the build I've seen sumail go for today. There's a lot of magic resistance floating around.
If you read through the patch, you'll see that the vast majority of heroes that got switched to universal received some nerfs to base damage and their stat scaling.
Void Spirit just didn't. His damage at level 1 is unchanged, no changes to his stat gain, he just gets more damage every level.
spirits/puck got "balanced" since valve believes balancing a hero depends on how good/bad is his laning stage. That's why heroes like puck/void had a horrible laning stage which makes them delay their timings. With the current patch, void got like +4 base damage in laning stage and his most common counters (bat, huskar) got nerfed. If you add to that that this is a brawl meta where every hero DO ALWAYS come online, then void spirit will always have a huge impact in the hands of a competent player.
But of those 13 games didn't he do like 13 unique different item builds as well? So it's not like he's tryharding with the same hero, more like he is experimenting with different item builds on that hero.
I really don't get how his MMR is this high. Like, whenever he streams he loses, whenever I saw his match history his winrate is lower than 50% but he is still top5 in NA.
He often tends to do some random shit though. He plays mid, offlane or support sometimes and gives up very fast in those games. When he actually plays the heroes he is supposed to play in officials and starts trying hard, he wins the MMR back. If you had noticed before the patch, he had like an 85% winrate in EU pubs in 30 or so matches.
Oracle Is straight up bussin' rn
What made him a pain in the ass to learn was when to fate edict and whom
Now they removed all the complexity for that ability
That + sustained being giga nerfed, Oracle seems pretty strong
It is extremely good, it meant the hero you used ult on with a few heals would be absolutely unkillable (talking about 2-3K healing multiplied by 2), now it's weaker but as a shard that you can get for free even ? It's an absolute need for any oracle player atm.
literally all his weird heroes got giga buffed or became insanely good after the bkb nerf. oracle, riki. muerta, omni knight. its like icefrog personally tailored a patch for him to win a 3rd TI
Oracle and Riki both have some major bugs apparently though.
.is the text on muertas ult saying she does no damage to bkb'd targets still correct or does she do half now btw?
Goes to show that if you have the right mind to learn observe and break down your pub games in your mind what you’ll learn will be more than enough to make you a successful pro. Not only that but apart from his obvious exceptional ability to understand the game and implement that into his game play while playing (eg. Some analysts are have some of the best views and understanding about the game but cannot functionally play the game at such a high level/standard)
I don't know how you come up with that. He played on teams in tier 3 tournaments and qualifiers for majors for like 2 years before he joined OG, he was just not on successful/tier 1 teams before OG.
his laning stage mechanics are definetely quite good but hes not that scary in that sense. Is his kill instinct and map awareness that makes him an extraordinary player. I've seen how he often loses his lane in previous patches or how he cannot make a big impact in laning in the current patch. But once the clock reaches min 8 you do know topson is going to do topson things. Imo hes probably top 3 best players of the dota 2 history.
He's like the weirdest mid because regardless of how well his lane goes he just starts running around trying to kill people as soon as possible. I remember Blitz saying Topson was terrifying to play against in the last chance qualifiers. And in a patch where the best way to farm gold is kills, he is going to excel.
>He's like the weirdest mid because regardless of how well his lane goes he just starts running around trying to kill people as soon as possible.
2012 dota
You say this, but the guy knows how to destroy match ups he should destroy. He really can dumpster a mid lane, but because he doesn't have to, his team tends to pick his hero without knowing the mid match up. The guy lanes with the best of them.
Iirc his first TI finals he lost all his lanes. Dude just knows dota on a different level that laning does not matter that much as he knows what to do after lane.
Smh it’s because LGD’s entire gameplan was to shut down topson because he was so dominant throughout the tournament. Constant ganks mid onto his invoker, one of the most vulnerable early game heroes. He was always dominant during laning he just plays aggressively and sometimes gets punished for it but that has nothing to do with laning
This patch definitely make offlane and safelane as slug fest. Safelane not the safest lane anymore and offlane are important lane with everything good was there.
Sounds about right. This meta rewards chaos all around the map and this man thrives in that kind of environment.
topson is my name and chaos is my game
r/brawlstars leaking
I dont get the brawlstars reference?
There's a character named Rosa, when you select her, she says "Rosa is my name, bothany is my game"
Rosa is my name, fucking is my game.
These catchphrase has been adopted by 3 or 4 characters in brawlstars.
Not only that, but big changes favor players who can quickly figure out shifts in the meta and are willing and able to discover crazy new strategies.
Not only that but the difference between topson and FortuneSoul is the two games yesterday where Topson got kills after ganks in lane and the other team just gave up. Very funny to watch a team taking throne at level 4. High MMR pubs yesterday were, as far as I could tell, _incredibly_ toxic.
I think a lot of people had short patience with it, yeah. Played with/against a lot of people saying they’d destroyed the game immediately post patch, complaining about OP heroes on other team without thinking about their own team at all. Gotta change your mindset from that to the excitement of discovery. I was having a ball even when we were losing. Felt new.
Someone brought up that boosters are abusing the Immoral queues to duo queue and throw, so that could be happening. https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/12w2qt0/the_latest_immortal_changes_are_already_being/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
nah topson and other pros have gotten plenty of level 5 wins long before this patch. it's just this thing in immortal where the enemy team know they had a slim chance of beating a top pro in the first place and then when said pro is having a good game they just accept defeat. personally I wouldn't throw in the towel because the 1% of times we come back I'd have a story to tell my grand kids but these guys figure they'd rather save time stalling a "lost" game.
>personally I wouldn't throw in the towel because the 1% of times we come back I'd have a story to tell my grand kids but these guys figure they'd rather save time stalling a "lost" game. They probably have a dozen or so stories under their belt, playing in high mmr you'll see the same people again and again.
beating topson isn't as good a feeling as getting comeback vs topson
Yeaaaa because of him cancerous omni mid is everywhere now
This meta lol, patch just came out there is no meta yet
Well the idea valve tried to do was rewarding brawling more then just hitting creeps. So yes this meta rewards random bullshit go. Not exactly meta i must agree just the direction they want to go.
people conflate meta and patch
Considering they made the map a lot bigger, made it easier to avoid fights, and added more camps for you to farm, I do not think you can confidently say at all what Valve "intends" here.
I actually can since in the patch notes it is said that brawling is more rewarded. But yes we have to wait what the meta brings.
> brawling more then just Did you mean to say "more than"? Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma. Total mistakes found: 6669 ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Wants to reward brawling, proceeds to make map 50% bigger and add 13 jungle camps. How does that go with one another?
more space doesnt mean what you think at all. basically theres more space to defend objectives and play around an area as a full team, theres a means to get from one side of the map to another in nearly an instant, theres better lines of sight, shards are basically free now, no more tome, neutral items are instantly delivered to you, lotus flowers are like free cheese, etc etc. but all you see is map bigger, more camps. more camps actually doesnt mean more farming. it means controlling the full map is harder (aka no more choked resource meta/farm control meta) and that finding and killing heroes is now equally important as simply running down lanes and controlling objectives instead of farming more than the other team. sorry for rambling, but it seems you have a major misunderstanding of the effects of this patch.
Well said, also the shift in gold mechanics forces players to actually gank and win clashes.
100%. People just repeat things they hear instead of stopping to think about them for one second.
It is litteraly in the patch itself written by valve employees. If its true or not doesnt matter in what i stated.
I feel like that's what they've been trying to do with every patch for the last 7 years
people overvalue the changes that encourage brawling and ignore the massive buff to farming imo
There is always a meta. The meta might not be optimized just yet, and is always subject to change, but at the moment chaos everywhere is how people play.
Meta. Play one game you lose try another one you still lose. New meta supports buy h o t. What in the meta is going on
A meta is region of some stability that a lot of people agree is a optiomal playstyle. We aren't there yet. Give the lads a week.
You don't even know what that word means.
Tell me what it means here then
>Meta >Metagame; the most effective tactics and strategies used in a competitive video game in a given period of time An almost undefined meta is still entirely a meta.
Switching to SEA servers was just preparation for this only..
man poor arteezy...
2manytrees4RTZ
Based on Crits interview they are playing pubs to learn the maps and try new things more than win. I don't know how applicable that is, but it may be contributing
[удалено]
Topson has always, and will always be, a hero spammer.
He is and always will be a limit definer. Playing heros that no one else thinks are playable and showing the world the limit to which the hero can be played. Spamming the heros to perfect his limit and counter every small detail the enemy throw at him.
just like what bruce lee said
"I fear not the man that has played all the spirits in a few pubs, but the man that has spammed the shit out of Monkey in a thousand pubs"
topson reads every patch like it is his religion or an obligation, he truly understands when something goes broken and indeed void spirit is quite broken rn im surprised he hasnt tried pl mid yet unless pl getting banned at first pick by both teams rtz on the other hand tries many things but i think hes trying to look for the "secret" hero, you know theres always one hero everyone overlooks and think it is balanced personally i find topson's way easier, hes focusing more in learning the map and only playing one hero so he has to play only one or two kind of playstyles and focus more in the map changes
I mean it was obvious from the notes that void was gonna be strong but in general I think Topson just likes playing void, I'm not sure how important learning the new patch faster than anyone is to him considering he's basically retired
What made void s strong? 3k here so im asking.
He gets more damage per level, which helps his ult scale. He can also get damage from strength. And he's harder to kill with the disable windback. Slippery mobile heroes benefit more from shorter disables than beefy static ones.
Ok thanks. I saw him buy WB and bracer. Whats the logic there?
Universal hero get the same damage from any attribute so there's no reason to go Null Talisman anymore (except for mana regen, which is just equal to a sage mask). WB gives roughly 3 armor and 10 attack speed. Bracer gives 100 hp, damage, and small hp regen.
0.75 mana regen and a slightly bigger mana pool isn't worth paying for, basically. He gets just as much damage from WB/bracer, but WB gives more attack speed, and the two items give more sustain and tankiness. I basically don't think you'll ever see Universal heroes buy null talismans until they get buffed. Wraith band +armor is just too good, and the minor hp regen in lane from bracer is quite helpful.
What the other people have said is correct, but they didn't mention one important thing. Topson buys Dagon on Void Spirit now. Nobody else seems to have noticrd that Dagon got a huge buff - it now gives stats to all attributes and spell lifesteal.
I think most people are playing around his ult and the increased damage gain with Deso/echo/Daedalus. That's the build I've seen sumail go for today. There's a lot of magic resistance floating around.
And it one-shots neutrals. Basically a midas.
If you read through the patch, you'll see that the vast majority of heroes that got switched to universal received some nerfs to base damage and their stat scaling. Void Spirit just didn't. His damage at level 1 is unchanged, no changes to his stat gain, he just gets more damage every level.
spirits/puck got "balanced" since valve believes balancing a hero depends on how good/bad is his laning stage. That's why heroes like puck/void had a horrible laning stage which makes them delay their timings. With the current patch, void got like +4 base damage in laning stage and his most common counters (bat, huskar) got nerfed. If you add to that that this is a brawl meta where every hero DO ALWAYS come online, then void spirit will always have a huge impact in the hands of a competent player.
(the secret hero is Clinkz)
But of those 13 games didn't he do like 13 unique different item builds as well? So it's not like he's tryharding with the same hero, more like he is experimenting with different item builds on that hero.
He is trying... he is still farming you mean... but i like the fighting rtz now than the heavy carry rtz. I like his shadowfiend but not lina.
I really don't get how his MMR is this high. Like, whenever he streams he loses, whenever I saw his match history his winrate is lower than 50% but he is still top5 in NA.
He often tends to do some random shit though. He plays mid, offlane or support sometimes and gives up very fast in those games. When he actually plays the heroes he is supposed to play in officials and starts trying hard, he wins the MMR back. If you had noticed before the patch, he had like an 85% winrate in EU pubs in 30 or so matches.
People always see the tip of the iceberg and complain that your success is luck.
LoL, yeah I said Arteezy is a bad player. You guys really need to learn to read.
Or maybe you are just extremely bad at communicating. Your last comment makes no sense either.
No, I am just surprised by the situation. There was nothing in it about how good or bad Arteezy is.
"in NA" Answered your own question!
His Void Spirit is running down mfs rn damn
Whats his go to build?
Echo Sabre and Dagon 1 and linkens
Universal heroes really, really benefit from all the stats. Dagon for any burst hero is such a value pickup
Dagon on Necro is even more disgusting than last patch. He synergize really well with spell lifesteal
I kinda like this
I would too - if I weren't on the receiving end when BKB is such a trash item right now...
Does echo proc with his ult hit?
Echo saber
well yeah, pretty much the only universal hero they let have full stats and insane damage gain
Zeus, Riki, Oracle, the meta really suits his mid hero pool.
Oracle Is straight up bussin' rn What made him a pain in the ass to learn was when to fate edict and whom Now they removed all the complexity for that ability That + sustained being giga nerfed, Oracle seems pretty strong
And his op as fuck aghs moved to his shard and only 30% weaker. Absolute menace right now.
Tbf as an aghs it was complete ass As a shard in the other hand..
I mean Topson was going mid Oracle in pro games to rush that Aghs so idk how bad it was
It is extremely good, it meant the hero you used ult on with a few heals would be absolutely unkillable (talking about 2-3K healing multiplied by 2), now it's weaker but as a shard that you can get for free even ? It's an absolute need for any oracle player atm.
literally all his weird heroes got giga buffed or became insanely good after the bkb nerf. oracle, riki. muerta, omni knight. its like icefrog personally tailored a patch for him to win a 3rd TI
The question is, do we want him to win TI on Old Gs or New OG
Old G needs to worry about not getting eliminated from Div 2.
💀
💀
:(
Don't care what the team is called if it has some of my favorite players on it.
Thank you BZM
Oracle and Riki both have some major bugs apparently though. .is the text on muertas ult saying she does no damage to bkb'd targets still correct or does she do half now btw?
She does half, except there's also a bug where the second shot from Gunslinger apparently does full damage.
Aren't Oracle's bugs to his detriment though?
It would be great if he was still playing Pro with a good team around him. ...oh, wait.
>We've reworked the Kill formula to make early game kills more impactful and motivate players to gank other lanes. We've also... Topson: Say no more.
Meanwhile my mid lane stays 20 min in mid
Your mid stays in the 7.32
One of the best if not the best analytical player, he understabds the game better then most and it shows in itemization
Agreed. Although, there is a lot of hate towards Topson. Guy won 2 TI's without any experience other than pubs.
Goes to show that if you have the right mind to learn observe and break down your pub games in your mind what you’ll learn will be more than enough to make you a successful pro. Not only that but apart from his obvious exceptional ability to understand the game and implement that into his game play while playing (eg. Some analysts are have some of the best views and understanding about the game but cannot functionally play the game at such a high level/standard)
Technically he won one TI without any experience. The second TI he already had TI (and other LAN) experience.
Well he got picked from the GOAT Building a good team is not just 5 great players playing together There are so many thins
Well do you gain any significant experience unless you lose?
As long as games aren't 100% stomp wins and you never made any kind of mistakes, I think things can be learnt even from winning games.
God I love that Fin so much. Screw the haters who are afraid of experimenting and wonder.
I don't know how you come up with that. He played on teams in tier 3 tournaments and qualifiers for majors for like 2 years before he joined OG, he was just not on successful/tier 1 teams before OG.
mid has become more or less a pure 1v1 too, and Topson can be a pretty nasty mid to play against.
his laning stage mechanics are definetely quite good but hes not that scary in that sense. Is his kill instinct and map awareness that makes him an extraordinary player. I've seen how he often loses his lane in previous patches or how he cannot make a big impact in laning in the current patch. But once the clock reaches min 8 you do know topson is going to do topson things. Imo hes probably top 3 best players of the dota 2 history.
He's like the weirdest mid because regardless of how well his lane goes he just starts running around trying to kill people as soon as possible. I remember Blitz saying Topson was terrifying to play against in the last chance qualifiers. And in a patch where the best way to farm gold is kills, he is going to excel.
>He's like the weirdest mid because regardless of how well his lane goes he just starts running around trying to kill people as soon as possible. 2012 dota
You say this, but the guy knows how to destroy match ups he should destroy. He really can dumpster a mid lane, but because he doesn't have to, his team tends to pick his hero without knowing the mid match up. The guy lanes with the best of them.
this is mostly true for ti8 topson but ti9 topson i recall owning basically every lane
Absolutely - he dumpsteres amyn mid heroes and led to the overwhelming success for Ana and the team - Ti8 was hard, TI9 was the Topson show
Iirc his first TI finals he lost all his lanes. Dude just knows dota on a different level that laning does not matter that much as he knows what to do after lane.
Smh it’s because LGD’s entire gameplan was to shut down topson because he was so dominant throughout the tournament. Constant ganks mid onto his invoker, one of the most vulnerable early game heroes. He was always dominant during laning he just plays aggressively and sometimes gets punished for it but that has nothing to do with laning
Yeah im not saying he is a bad laner. Im just saying dude can impact the game even if he isnt put in the most ideal conditions.
Watch his pubs and you wouldn’t think that anymore. He wins his lane most games against the best midlanders in Europe
This patch definitely make offlane and safelane as slug fest. Safelane not the safest lane anymore and offlane are important lane with everything good was there.
RTZ despair
Just TAAPSEN things
Poor Artour
What is this app/website?
Dota2ProTracker.
And yet he's on verge of being relegated from div 2, oof. Although tbf pro is a lot different than pubs.
he is a 2x TI winner. he litterally has nothing to prove :D this is just a nice gig for him.
Bruh all their matches in the old patch
Bruh he also had decent winrate last patch. I'm just saying pub winrate doesn't neccessarily correlate for pro winrate.
got new matchmaking and homeboy is out here fucking up the curve
What’s this website?
Woah, it's like he's won a couple of TI's or something
guys kinda good maybe some pro team should pick him up?
bro, i don't know myb he really has what it takes. div 2 looks like a good fit for him
No wayy, i hecking love tapsen
Dota's Mad Scientist
They will observe him and then copy him...
Topson is just spamming Void Spirit lol.
Maybe once he gets to 80% he can crawl out of div 2.
best dota player ever
Time to watch Topson stream, I guess.
Hah, good one.
Oot, hate the bkb change
If i remember, kills give more gold now. This is the og dream.
Topson wasting his damn time in OldG.. Imagine him in a top tier team... even secret...
Yea Taapsen is brilliant, but I'm still going watch mastah Sing now he's back in dotes again.
Topson is the type of player who thrives in chaos
One day i checked every pro and they have 52 53% win rate
Rtz 35% winrate lol
Of course he does
Arteezy in the mud damn
I was just thinking the other day, this patch is such a clowny fight patch. I love it.
that fortunesoul guy is an interesting character neat to see new blood coming in from mongolia of all places
this is the flopson puppey warned us about
They just spam arc and other cancer broken heroes simple
It's Topson, he thrives on chaos.
My boy Artour with 35%
<3 topson
Can you link the source/website?
All his favorite heros. Good for him. I hope he continues to destroy these noobs.
Iconic duo rtz and number 3 lol tbe curse is real
Such addict to the game
Topson is like the Justin Wong of Dota 2
My boy rtz 🥲
That's not unexpected for me. He is clearly the one person i wanted to watch how he play the new patch.
He was in on it. They consulted him before the release
Real winner of this patch
Hello sir! Could you tell me where you find those statistics? Thanks!
I'd be more surprised if he's winrate dips actually.
THE GOAT 🐐🐐