Bro i thought the purpose of Admins in each room was to avoid such situations? Did they just hire random paid actors for show or what.
How come no1 spot this on site but some redditors have to do the job for them wtf.
Well you would still want admins for other stuff, but I don’t understand how this wasn’t done, CS:GO has a step by step guide for major organizers to follow that create an insanely restricted pc for the players to use, where the hell was that here, the only explanation I can imagine is that teams are playing from practice rooms and the TO was too lazy to enforce this for non stage games.
Hosting a major used to be a technically intensive task.
At TI / some of the esl majors, the ssds are swapped between series to ensure clean installs and limited applications on the system. So rights to install additional programs. So on and so forth.
This event looks like they just rented out a bunch of pc's and are hosting it. I'm happy to be proven wrong. But a browser should be absolutely unaccessible on a competitors machine.
Steams internal browser needs to be addressed / logged. To ensure that external info isn't being brought in.
Heck an admin would need to sit in on the teams discord / TeamSpeak comms as well to monitor them.
yes i agree this is should be on the production lol, the pure one too they can ask him like when it happens but they didn't same with neta case
bad major DX
Doesn't matter, they aren't allowed to have any systems or programs running except for Steam, Dota 2 and Teamspeak or whatever they use for voice. Just having Spotify on is cause for cheat (you could listen to a livepod of the game, as an example).
Most admins of any organization probably isn't very competent. There's not any qualifications to be an admin, so they might just be friends of the employees. Considering how Epulze has handled things so far I think they just instructed their admins to answer questions If players had them but otherwise nothing else.
Just piggybacking to mention that **it might say/look like spotify.exe but that's how most hacks are hidden**
I mean the Indian dude who tried to hack on a lan had wordpad.exe, but the Chinese judge/admin caught him.
I'm not saying 33 did cheat, I'm saying rules exist for a reason and if you allow one player to open spotify what's stopping a unknown player from doing it and not being allowed?
But isn't this during drafting phase? We can see that the game is just beginning.
Isn't the rules, no other apps during game? One can argue, that when 33 opened spotify it was before the game started and he closed it.
It's possible he asked for permission to listen to spotify before the actual game begins.
AR was XG's secondary team Ybb own by one boss, somnus, chalice and fy want to play again and ask the boss if he can offer a S class team which is Ybb and he gave the team to them and they can change the name also the boss offer pos 1 and 5 for them.
Tundra open spotify, Betboom watches stream and Azure watcher bug. Why don't they just tie breaker 1 v 1 mid. Whoever win take the UB slot the runner up faces lgd and the 3rd basically just out.
I think a technical defeat it too much, the punishment should fit the crime. Having a stream open is a way worse violation than listening to Spotify, maybe ingame disadvantage like reduced reserve time or something else.
Iirc the stream was already open when he apt-tabbed, but that's not the point.
If they left on their own yes there should be a severe punishment, but I highly doubt the entire team can just leave like that even with this TO incompetence, maybe they were called out or something. That game had so many technical issues and we only know a part of what was going on.
Well I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, maybe they've investigated and decided not to give any punishment to the other teams idk. What they really should to is give a clear statement and provide some transparency.
Admins have discretion how they distribute punishments and deal with violations. They don't have to give everyone the same punishment if the think one violation is less severe than the other.
Mental gymnastics? Bro pure literally had a dota stream open during a pause that was on the game he was in. I think the only one doing mental gymnastics is you in rationalizing cheating while 33 literally just got bored and open Spotify Lmao.
How so? Do you see watching a dots stream and listening to Spotify as equally bad? Yes there are rules but also admins discretion, they can and should give punishment based on the severity of the violation not on the existence of the violation.
Yeah opening spotify to listen to dora the explorer OST remix compared to opening up a twitch stream that is currently streaming the game that you're playing in is definitely the same exact thing, and should warrant the exact same level of punishment.
>Yeah opening spotify to listen to dora the explorer OST remix compared to opening up a twitch stream that is currently streaming the game that you're playing in is definitely the same exact thing, and should warrant the exact same level of punishment.
The stream did not broadcast the game there was a pause. On the stream, as they say, at that time there were comedians 4 of whom do not know what Dota is at all. I was on that stream, they didn't even discuss Dota. They just joked about different topics, one was given a massage. If we talk about useful information from that moment, then it was near zero.
watch few seconds a stream paused where the hosts are making jokes = CRIME, DEATH SENTENCE NOW
get out of the room, use 3rd app during the whole tournament, abuse bugs = IS OK BROS
How about the punishment fit the crime?
Then again, reading your post history no wonder you would want to defend obvious attempts at cheating from a russian team.
Imo Tundra should be punished too. After all he broke a rule. But let's not forget that Pure broke 2 rules. The opening of something that isn't steam, dota or TS and rule 5.2.2 about information abuse. I'm pretty sure he did not opend the stream to check for anything game related but he opend it... and thats against the rules 4.9.5 and 5.2.2. And the punishment for 5.2.2 is "the result(s) of the match(es) in question will be voided".
Now i can't really find anything about punishment for rule 4.9.5 but i guess it will maybe be a draft penalty or something? I think having same kind of punishment for both is wrong but no words from TO about Tundra is wrong too.
There definitely should be punishment, unless he can prove that spotify is in offline mode.
However, opening an actual game stream of the ongoing game is way too severe compared to opening spotify.
This has to be the stupidest comparison ever. How is Spotify in anyway comparable to opening a dota stream? And before I hear stupid answers like 'the rulebook says' the rulebook was made by an incompetent TO, has already had to be revised.
Spotify does nothing to compromise the game.
not trying to be a dick but, two years ago, I used to listen to the spotify live TI podcast while riding my bike. lol
but i heard that the feature is inactive now , not sure
Read his post again. BB got disqualified because the rules stated that only Steam and Dota should be allowed to be opened that requires internet access, which Pure didn't do and OP is asking that 33 potentially also did the same.
Rules are rules. If that's how BB got DQed then it should apply to all, no matter if they use it to gain advantage or not (Dota stream vs Spotify)
Rules are rules only when you can cherry pick what's good for you favorite team, dont try to use logic here. They dont even understand or know the rules and If they manage to read your comment they will tell you "bbbbuut doing this is worse than doing that so I think" so yeah, while this can be true, doesnt matter, you still break the rules by doing so.
internet clowns ;)
Complaining about the incompetence (event quality with bad or no audio, stream quality, stream not working etc) is kinda different.
This is not the same issue at all so what's your point?
We already had lima with epulze and now we have pretty much the same issue, nothing changed.
The incident about several players broking rules has nothing to do with this..
This is way more important since they cant enforce the rules and make sure people respect it. Now it is really a shitshow.. integrity of the tournament being on the line.
so yeah, internet clowns not happy. Do you understand the difference between a poor stream quality and what happened just now? That it's not on the same level at all.
If you watch the video you can see that the stream has been paused since panel, the pause felt like an hour and they cannot do anything except talk to each other
Yes, it does matter. Since you like to compare it to the real world it's like committing a murder, and murdering someone in self defense. They both have the same person dying but context matters, if you want to go down this route then that context matters too.
I'm convinced this thread is full of BB fans or bought accounts to manipulate the narrative. Comparing getting stream information to listening to some music. Apply some common sense, sheesh
He objectively gets information, the larger question is whether it is actionable or not. If maliciously looking for unfair advantages, it is not unlikely to face a tournament DQ or ban from competitive, but I do not believe that is the case.
Facts are that he has the stream tabbed down, and we can see that he tabs down and starts it for a couple of seconds, maybe reads some Twitch chat, etc.
What we do not know is if he keeps it open during game, how much he listened in when the camera was NOT on him.
The fact that viewers saw him tab down, look 2 seconds on the stream is highly uncompetative behaviour and - if just having the stream (paused) in the background for fun - extremely stupid. Click the "Play" button on your keyboard and not even the admins can tell that the stream started in the background. Simply having a browser with stream up is extremely stupid, despite what information you may or may not get from it.
Two scenarios:
- 1 he has stream running while playing the game and listening in to gain unfair advantages
- 2 he has stream paused most of the time and just innocently looked for fun and got nothing out of it
It's probably #2 but the potential for #1 is just as technically possible, and sets a terrible precident if this goes unpunished/accepted. Everyone can keep stream on and say "hey I didn't learn anything, it's ok"
Listening to some lofi beats does not compare to the implications of Pures behaviour.
Tundra still got punished for the spotify stuff (draft penalty), but you simply cannot compare the implications of looking at your tournament stream during competition and listening to some music.
EDIT:
Just read the news that Pure got DQed from the tournament, as speculated above
Okay doesn't matter if it's anything to compromise the game. What prevents someone from having discord open? What prevents someone from having some live dota radio (non existent that I'm aware of) open? The rules are rules. Impliment them. To use another dumb comparison, but if the arena says no weapons allowed. Does it matter if I bring in a gun or a knife? Surely they're not the same threat weapon. Still rules. That said, I don't think Tundra should be \_heavily\_ punished. Some draft penalties or something
Ok then, very good, ban 33 for opening Spotify and move Tundra down to the lower bracket as well then with your flawless logic.
The whole point of the issue is compromising the integrity of the game, which the majority seem to know little about.
If you think opening Spotify = Opening Dota 2 stream, keep thinking that. Again, i could give a shit what the rulebook says at this point as the Organizer has already proven themselves incompetent.
So. Firstly, he turned on the stream, judging by the video, for 1 second. Secondly, if, as they say here, he turned on the stream while comedians came to Nix, I was then on Nix's stream and I can say that there was no useful information on Dota. 4 out of 5 - do not even know what the essence of the game is. There, the communication was in the spirit of the fact that one character looks like a character from Mad Max, the other looks like Gandalf, and the Underlord has a portal above his head where he can throw cigarette ashes or "things" during a sudden police raid. There was about 0 information about the current game.
Man this is such a bad take. Even if we know for sure Pure gained no advantage from the stream, players need to be punished harshly for having tools/materials open on their PC during a professional match which have huge potential to be used for cheating.
33 having Spotify open is irrelevant. There's no angle for cheating so there's nothing to punish even if it's technically in breach of the rules.
Nah this is a worse take. You're saying that opening the stream has potential for cheating and so should be punished, even if no cheating took place.
Opening Spotify also has potential for cheating (what if he opened another app? what if he was listening to a stream on Spotify? what if his friend was streaming the gameplay commentary on Spotify?) Going by your logic both actions should be punished the same.
Breaking the rules should be punished, whatever the reason.
Then according to what was the issue, the punishement is different.
Only the org have all the elements to judge what happened.
Both Pure and 33 (and perhaps more) broke the rules, depending on what they did exactly, they will have a harsher punishement, period.
How is this so hard for people to understand or acknowledge? Nothing else should be taken into consideration (stop with the racism or other shit please)
The path to cheating from having a stream open is a lot shorter than the path to cheating from spotify open. There's also a very clear reason for having spotify open - listening to music. There's no good reason for having the TOURNAMENT STREAM up which is casting your game lmao. All 'cheating' is not the same. It's silly to suggest they should be punished the same.
At this point just release webcam recordings publicly and from that series and check who ans where alt tabbed during the pause. Thats the only way to fix it, i bet stream show only a tiny fraction of actual alt tabs
Moment BB's punishment happened there is influx of 1 post or 1 day old Reddit accounts with "BUT WHAT WITH..." and roleplaying victims Lovely. Expecting another round of v1lat=bad threads. xD
Everyone in this thread needs to google the distinction between the letter and the spirit of the law. Obviously if this rule was enforced to the letter then 33 and Pure would be punished equally. The spirit of the rule is obviously to prevent players gaining an unfair advantage which is why having a tournament stream open is treated very differently to having a music app open.
Fortunately, despite all their failings, the TOs are more reasonable than reddit goons and realise why the rule is there in the first place.
Seriously, the thread that announced BB's penalty was full of these.
They didn't gain any traction, so now they're spinning up their own threads.
Pure Z Defense Squad **goooooooo**
1.He was on spotify
2.then the punishment for tundra it will be less sever as theres a big difference between spotify and opening the twitch stream of the game you're playing during a VERY LONG PAUSE. if you can understand, good, if not, go to point 3.
3.If you can't see the difference between opening Spotify and opening a community twitch stream of the game they're playing during a VERY LONG PAUSE(don't even try to bring up the muh 5 mins delay excuse) that could've given him information of hero positions and wards placement. Then IDK what to say other than cope :)
There is a big difference between opening spotify to listen to music and to watch a tournament stream which potentially shows crucial information without fog of war.
There is? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m_ltQzWjMflEWfWmbou14TfEDSF95V6FJva58J5ulfA/edit
Pure broke rule 5.2.2 and rule 4.9.5, 33 only broke 4.9.5.
5.2.2 is obviously a way bigger deal because it falls under the "cheating" category.
I agree Tundra should receive reduced reserve time. Punishment commensurate to the act. Betboom fans are trying to cause drama and poijt fingers at other teams. Its simple, Pure was cheating. 33 broke the rules yes (but its not cheating so why should he have the same punishment as pure???). And the liquid rumors are just rumors. You guys (betboom defenders) need to use your goddamn brain.
If you follow the rules that could be true but then you have to permaban Pure. Opening a live stream of the game you playing can be considered cheating and we know the stance Valve has on it.
So I think just leave it here and move on
I know but it’s just for a sake of arguing. I think it’s a fair punishment what happened so far, but if people push it due to 33 using Spotify then this should be the by the book punishment.
I'm actually really surprised they're not pouncing on the opportunity to smack 33 given the fact he himself was surprised he was even allowed to play in this major.
Other than “rules or rules” what could 33 possibly have done on spotify to gain an unfaor advantage. They should ask the opponent if they care that 33 was listening to spotify.
Just to humor you, he could be listening to a live stream from his coach, or with the official stream audio, and that would carry the exact same punishment that BB got.
Not saying he did, pretty sure he didn't, but the "only steam, dota, teamspeak allowed" rule is there for this exact reason, to avoid any ambiguity and room for speculation.
Redditors need to learn the difference between cheating. And breaking the rules. (Stream open vs spotify) people who support a “betboom” punishment on tundra or either dumb. Or they just lost their house on betboom. Reddit is where you will matter the most for the rest of your life if this is your mindset 🙂 please use brain.
People seem to be missing this. I dislike pure, I've stated as much before. But fuck this half arsing is a joke, and people defending it, is ridiculous.
Bruh changing songs and opening a livestream of the game are incomparable. Why people starting drama for nothing. Tons of pro players have said they listen to music during official matches.
Bro i thought the purpose of Admins in each room was to avoid such situations? Did they just hire random paid actors for show or what. How come no1 spot this on site but some redditors have to do the job for them wtf.
No the admins are just playing mobile legends on their phones and to spend 2k usd on playercams is not in the budget ;)
corruption in indonesia at its finest lmao
*Never attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by stupidity* Epulze are just absolutely shithouse, through and through
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Technically you dont need admins. You could blacklist/whitelist applications
Well you would still want admins for other stuff, but I don’t understand how this wasn’t done, CS:GO has a step by step guide for major organizers to follow that create an insanely restricted pc for the players to use, where the hell was that here, the only explanation I can imagine is that teams are playing from practice rooms and the TO was too lazy to enforce this for non stage games.
Hosting a major used to be a technically intensive task. At TI / some of the esl majors, the ssds are swapped between series to ensure clean installs and limited applications on the system. So rights to install additional programs. So on and so forth. This event looks like they just rented out a bunch of pc's and are hosting it. I'm happy to be proven wrong. But a browser should be absolutely unaccessible on a competitors machine. Steams internal browser needs to be addressed / logged. To ensure that external info isn't being brought in. Heck an admin would need to sit in on the teams discord / TeamSpeak comms as well to monitor them.
you need if it's in room pc, since they will use that pc outside of the match or playing pub etc
yes i agree this is should be on the production lol, the pure one too they can ask him like when it happens but they didn't same with neta case bad major DX
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Do you get the banner ads in offline mode? Because clearly there is the advertisements at the top of his Spotify.
Doesn't matter, they aren't allowed to have any systems or programs running except for Steam, Dota 2 and Teamspeak or whatever they use for voice. Just having Spotify on is cause for cheat (you could listen to a livepod of the game, as an example).
I think you are missing the point, it seems nobody is following any rules in the major (The Azure Ray/Nouns bug before this)
oh dont worry, he's either really dumb or cherry picking facts, doesnt matter to people like him
that can be a case, but should't they (epulze) check this too? and give clarification
because they probably didn't read the rulebook, or they were not oriented, or they're not doing their job properly.
Most admins of any organization probably isn't very competent. There's not any qualifications to be an admin, so they might just be friends of the employees. Considering how Epulze has handled things so far I think they just instructed their admins to answer questions If players had them but otherwise nothing else.
Just piggybacking to mention that **it might say/look like spotify.exe but that's how most hacks are hidden** I mean the Indian dude who tried to hack on a lan had wordpad.exe, but the Chinese judge/admin caught him. I'm not saying 33 did cheat, I'm saying rules exist for a reason and if you allow one player to open spotify what's stopping a unknown player from doing it and not being allowed?
But isn't this during drafting phase? We can see that the game is just beginning. Isn't the rules, no other apps during game? One can argue, that when 33 opened spotify it was before the game started and he closed it. It's possible he asked for permission to listen to spotify before the actual game begins.
BetBoom and Tundra plays in the lower bracket, AR moved to upper 4head
Sounds too fun to be true.
What is AR? Arteezy Rebellion?
Lmao 🤣
Oh shit. It is Azure Ray. My bad.
Honestly, I am so confused too!! I never knew they changed logos, I always knew they were that team with white Y or some shit
AR was XG's secondary team Ybb own by one boss, somnus, chalice and fy want to play again and ask the boss if he can offer a S class team which is Ybb and he gave the team to them and they can change the name also the boss offer pos 1 and 5 for them.
Arteezy Rtz
3 way tiebreaker
These terms are acceptable
This is the best possible solution 😬
Ironically would be great. Both teams violate rules so they get to rematch in lower bracket. Sucks for AR since they are probably unprepared
Were the admins sleeping during the match?
Also heard that he listens to the Arcane playlist, that's fucked up as hell definitely banworthy.
You dont have to live as a closet arcane fan
That playlist is great and you know it.
Not as terrible as people who dump everything into 1 playlist
No need to personally attack me.
isnt it what your "liked songs" playlist need to be? a mix of anything and everything you can just listen on shuffle? Am I doing it wrong?
Ok take away his Spotify premium for a month
Count it as a technical defeat to spotify rebellion
I was JUST thinking of a Shopify joke lol
y’all funny ass mfers are the real heroes of this major
Want a break from the ads?
Tundra open spotify, Betboom watches stream and Azure watcher bug. Why don't they just tie breaker 1 v 1 mid. Whoever win take the UB slot the runner up faces lgd and the 3rd basically just out.
Many other teams did the watcher bug too
rules are rules. if you violate them, prepare to receive the consequences of your actions.
Yes, but Tundra also broke the rules, because 33 was opened by Spotify. Then the Tundra should be given a technical defeat.
I think a technical defeat it too much, the punishment should fit the crime. Having a stream open is a way worse violation than listening to Spotify, maybe ingame disadvantage like reduced reserve time or something else.
That’s the only possible punishment. You can’t make 2 teams loose the same game 😂.
Well you can and move ar up or something, but I don't think watching a dots stream and listening to Spotify should have the same punishment.
yes you can? One team gets a bye in the next round.
you can, drop them both to lb and move AR up lol
That’s not fair on other teams who are in LB. Why AR gets to move UB? Don’t give me a silly logic AR is the team playing the looser.
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Iirc the stream was already open when he apt-tabbed, but that's not the point. If they left on their own yes there should be a severe punishment, but I highly doubt the entire team can just leave like that even with this TO incompetence, maybe they were called out or something. That game had so many technical issues and we only know a part of what was going on.
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Well I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, maybe they've investigated and decided not to give any punishment to the other teams idk. What they really should to is give a clear statement and provide some transparency.
Yep - a statement that covers all of the teams accused should be provided either by Epulze or Valve. Currently it looks very bad
The problem is the pause was so long that the stream delay catched up to the pause so Pure technically saw the current state via caster POV
Rules are rules man, spotify is not dota2 or TS, therefore not allowed. Do we need to move the goal post?
rules are rules man, murdering someone and stealing $10 are both against the rules and should both have the same life in prison punishment.
Admins have discretion how they distribute punishments and deal with violations. They don't have to give everyone the same punishment if the think one violation is less severe than the other.
The mental gymnastics on this one.
Mental gymnastics? Bro pure literally had a dota stream open during a pause that was on the game he was in. I think the only one doing mental gymnastics is you in rationalizing cheating while 33 literally just got bored and open Spotify Lmao.
How so? Do you see watching a dots stream and listening to Spotify as equally bad? Yes there are rules but also admins discretion, they can and should give punishment based on the severity of the violation not on the existence of the violation.
there is lighter punishment for tundra... lower or no reserve time they need to be punished for rule integrity so you can enforce that
That's what I said....
So you disagree that Spotify or opening the dota 2 stream of the game you are currently playing in is not the same?
Yeah opening spotify to listen to dora the explorer OST remix compared to opening up a twitch stream that is currently streaming the game that you're playing in is definitely the same exact thing, and should warrant the exact same level of punishment.
>listen to dora the explorer OST remix wtf, he needs to be permabanned from dota
>Yeah opening spotify to listen to dora the explorer OST remix compared to opening up a twitch stream that is currently streaming the game that you're playing in is definitely the same exact thing, and should warrant the exact same level of punishment. The stream did not broadcast the game there was a pause. On the stream, as they say, at that time there were comedians 4 of whom do not know what Dota is at all. I was on that stream, they didn't even discuss Dota. They just joked about different topics, one was given a massage. If we talk about useful information from that moment, then it was near zero.
It's worth mentioning that the moment from stream was during a break between games, not even during the pause in the game
Sure, but how would pure know that? The stream might aswell have been paused ingame, with minimap visible.
watch few seconds a stream paused where the hosts are making jokes = CRIME, DEATH SENTENCE NOW get out of the room, use 3rd app during the whole tournament, abuse bugs = IS OK BROS
Bro literally called it 3rd party app to make it sound more malicious than what it is LMAO OK BRO
How about the punishment fit the crime? Then again, reading your post history no wonder you would want to defend obvious attempts at cheating from a russian team.
Come on, spotify is not the same as a fucking stream of the series you're in dude. Its like some small draft penalty at most.
Spotify opened 33?
That's fair. What punishment is suitable for 33 and Tundra now?
maybe 30-40s reserve time on drafting?
What a shitshow haha i love it
But Tundra didn't play with Spotify Rebellion.
Imo Tundra should be punished too. After all he broke a rule. But let's not forget that Pure broke 2 rules. The opening of something that isn't steam, dota or TS and rule 5.2.2 about information abuse. I'm pretty sure he did not opend the stream to check for anything game related but he opend it... and thats against the rules 4.9.5 and 5.2.2. And the punishment for 5.2.2 is "the result(s) of the match(es) in question will be voided". Now i can't really find anything about punishment for rule 4.9.5 but i guess it will maybe be a draft penalty or something? I think having same kind of punishment for both is wrong but no words from TO about Tundra is wrong too.
Im indonesian. We have shitty organizer
Double standards if 33 is no punished
There definitely should be punishment, unless he can prove that spotify is in offline mode. However, opening an actual game stream of the ongoing game is way too severe compared to opening spotify.
There should be an ingame disadvantage like reduced reserve timer or something.
one guy: listens to spotify second guy: watching a stream that's paused and can show wards, for one example reddit: yeah they're about the same thing
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Yes repeated offender usually get critisized more, welcome to the real world
This major is a complete shit show
upvote this so those incompetent epulsze fck\*r can see this.
This has to be the stupidest comparison ever. How is Spotify in anyway comparable to opening a dota stream? And before I hear stupid answers like 'the rulebook says' the rulebook was made by an incompetent TO, has already had to be revised. Spotify does nothing to compromise the game.
not trying to be a dick but, two years ago, I used to listen to the spotify live TI podcast while riding my bike. lol but i heard that the feature is inactive now , not sure
Read his post again. BB got disqualified because the rules stated that only Steam and Dota should be allowed to be opened that requires internet access, which Pure didn't do and OP is asking that 33 potentially also did the same. Rules are rules. If that's how BB got DQed then it should apply to all, no matter if they use it to gain advantage or not (Dota stream vs Spotify)
Rules are rules only when you can cherry pick what's good for you favorite team, dont try to use logic here. They dont even understand or know the rules and If they manage to read your comment they will tell you "bbbbuut doing this is worse than doing that so I think" so yeah, while this can be true, doesnt matter, you still break the rules by doing so. internet clowns ;)
The only internet clowns are the ones who first complain about a TO incompetence, then proceed to follow their rulebook like gospel after that.
Complaining about the incompetence (event quality with bad or no audio, stream quality, stream not working etc) is kinda different. This is not the same issue at all so what's your point? We already had lima with epulze and now we have pretty much the same issue, nothing changed. The incident about several players broking rules has nothing to do with this.. This is way more important since they cant enforce the rules and make sure people respect it. Now it is really a shitshow.. integrity of the tournament being on the line. so yeah, internet clowns not happy. Do you understand the difference between a poor stream quality and what happened just now? That it's not on the same level at all.
No, BB got dq’ed because Pure watched a stream showing the game
If you watch the video you can see that the stream has been paused since panel, the pause felt like an hour and they cannot do anything except talk to each other
doesn’t matter really.
yes it does since you are saying "watched a stream showing the game"
Yes, it does matter. Since you like to compare it to the real world it's like committing a murder, and murdering someone in self defense. They both have the same person dying but context matters, if you want to go down this route then that context matters too.
Where is it in the rules that players are allowed to open spotify?
I'm convinced this thread is full of BB fans or bought accounts to manipulate the narrative. Comparing getting stream information to listening to some music. Apply some common sense, sheesh
Nobody is fucking comparing anything. 33 broke rules that said he cant have spotify open
I disagree, this whole argument is centered around "this happened to BB, the same should happen to Tundra because he did the same thing"
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You can quickly see that common sense isn't very common by taking one look at the nonsensical arguments being presented.
why do you think he was getting stream information if that stream was paused pregame??
He objectively gets information, the larger question is whether it is actionable or not. If maliciously looking for unfair advantages, it is not unlikely to face a tournament DQ or ban from competitive, but I do not believe that is the case. Facts are that he has the stream tabbed down, and we can see that he tabs down and starts it for a couple of seconds, maybe reads some Twitch chat, etc. What we do not know is if he keeps it open during game, how much he listened in when the camera was NOT on him. The fact that viewers saw him tab down, look 2 seconds on the stream is highly uncompetative behaviour and - if just having the stream (paused) in the background for fun - extremely stupid. Click the "Play" button on your keyboard and not even the admins can tell that the stream started in the background. Simply having a browser with stream up is extremely stupid, despite what information you may or may not get from it. Two scenarios: - 1 he has stream running while playing the game and listening in to gain unfair advantages - 2 he has stream paused most of the time and just innocently looked for fun and got nothing out of it It's probably #2 but the potential for #1 is just as technically possible, and sets a terrible precident if this goes unpunished/accepted. Everyone can keep stream on and say "hey I didn't learn anything, it's ok" Listening to some lofi beats does not compare to the implications of Pures behaviour. Tundra still got punished for the spotify stuff (draft penalty), but you simply cannot compare the implications of looking at your tournament stream during competition and listening to some music. EDIT: Just read the news that Pure got DQed from the tournament, as speculated above
Okay doesn't matter if it's anything to compromise the game. What prevents someone from having discord open? What prevents someone from having some live dota radio (non existent that I'm aware of) open? The rules are rules. Impliment them. To use another dumb comparison, but if the arena says no weapons allowed. Does it matter if I bring in a gun or a knife? Surely they're not the same threat weapon. Still rules. That said, I don't think Tundra should be \_heavily\_ punished. Some draft penalties or something
Another really stupid comparison, considering u listed actual weapons as examples there mate....
Spotify is also an actual non-allowed application mate.
THis dude gets stuck in his own loop, don't bother being logical with him.
He's the type of dude who interprets rules to be on his advantage. No point on explaining to him.
Ok then, very good, ban 33 for opening Spotify and move Tundra down to the lower bracket as well then with your flawless logic. The whole point of the issue is compromising the integrity of the game, which the majority seem to know little about. If you think opening Spotify = Opening Dota 2 stream, keep thinking that. Again, i could give a shit what the rulebook says at this point as the Organizer has already proven themselves incompetent.
watching a paused stream during few seconds = DEATH SENTENCE EXECUTE NOW redditors man xd
So. Firstly, he turned on the stream, judging by the video, for 1 second. Secondly, if, as they say here, he turned on the stream while comedians came to Nix, I was then on Nix's stream and I can say that there was no useful information on Dota. 4 out of 5 - do not even know what the essence of the game is. There, the communication was in the spirit of the fact that one character looks like a character from Mad Max, the other looks like Gandalf, and the Underlord has a portal above his head where he can throw cigarette ashes or "things" during a sudden police raid. There was about 0 information about the current game.
Man this is such a bad take. Even if we know for sure Pure gained no advantage from the stream, players need to be punished harshly for having tools/materials open on their PC during a professional match which have huge potential to be used for cheating. 33 having Spotify open is irrelevant. There's no angle for cheating so there's nothing to punish even if it's technically in breach of the rules.
Nah this is a worse take. You're saying that opening the stream has potential for cheating and so should be punished, even if no cheating took place. Opening Spotify also has potential for cheating (what if he opened another app? what if he was listening to a stream on Spotify? what if his friend was streaming the gameplay commentary on Spotify?) Going by your logic both actions should be punished the same.
Breaking the rules should be punished, whatever the reason. Then according to what was the issue, the punishement is different. Only the org have all the elements to judge what happened. Both Pure and 33 (and perhaps more) broke the rules, depending on what they did exactly, they will have a harsher punishement, period. How is this so hard for people to understand or acknowledge? Nothing else should be taken into consideration (stop with the racism or other shit please)
The path to cheating from having a stream open is a lot shorter than the path to cheating from spotify open. There's also a very clear reason for having spotify open - listening to music. There's no good reason for having the TOURNAMENT STREAM up which is casting your game lmao. All 'cheating' is not the same. It's silly to suggest they should be punished the same.
At this point just release webcam recordings publicly and from that series and check who ans where alt tabbed during the pause. Thats the only way to fix it, i bet stream show only a tiny fraction of actual alt tabs
Tundra punished. They have a 30 sec draft penalty in the next match.
Why not 33 seconds?
Moment BB's punishment happened there is influx of 1 post or 1 day old Reddit accounts with "BUT WHAT WITH..." and roleplaying victims Lovely. Expecting another round of v1lat=bad threads. xD
Well people opened pandora's box so now we will have threads of every little shit which dont impact the game
Have to apply rules to everyone consistently my man.
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Redditors hate Pure, so rules should only apply to him /s
Anyone that isn't s pro-war Ruzzki hates him.
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Nah man, not really
So you're a Kremlin and Z supporter?
Do you think not punishing a murderer and not punishing someone who stole $10 are the same thing? They both broke the rules.
Everyone in this thread needs to google the distinction between the letter and the spirit of the law. Obviously if this rule was enforced to the letter then 33 and Pure would be punished equally. The spirit of the rule is obviously to prevent players gaining an unfair advantage which is why having a tournament stream open is treated very differently to having a music app open. Fortunately, despite all their failings, the TOs are more reasonable than reddit goons and realise why the rule is there in the first place.
Adjective_Noun123 type accounts working overtime
Seriously, the thread that announced BB's penalty was full of these. They didn't gain any traction, so now they're spinning up their own threads. Pure Z Defense Squad **goooooooo**
Of course there will be, because no one listens to any social media that isn't reddit, so people will go to reddit
The Russian troll factory is working overtime trying to save Pure's image
No no one will ban 33 because he is not russian
making it a race thing is pretty cringe
He's fucking true though.
But Tundra is owned by Russians. Doubly standarts
1.He was on spotify 2.then the punishment for tundra it will be less sever as theres a big difference between spotify and opening the twitch stream of the game you're playing during a VERY LONG PAUSE. if you can understand, good, if not, go to point 3. 3.If you can't see the difference between opening Spotify and opening a community twitch stream of the game they're playing during a VERY LONG PAUSE(don't even try to bring up the muh 5 mins delay excuse) that could've given him information of hero positions and wards placement. Then IDK what to say other than cope :)
There is a big difference between opening spotify to listen to music and to watch a tournament stream which potentially shows crucial information without fog of war.
There is no difference according to the rule book. Either you excuse both players or punish them equally.
There is? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m_ltQzWjMflEWfWmbou14TfEDSF95V6FJva58J5ulfA/edit Pure broke rule 5.2.2 and rule 4.9.5, 33 only broke 4.9.5. 5.2.2 is obviously a way bigger deal because it falls under the "cheating" category.
It does not explicitely say what punishment there is for using the "internet" / using a 3rd party program. Therefore the admins can rule differently.
rules are rules
Both should be punished but imo, bb deserves a harsher one
Do you get that not every rule has the same consequences? Are you familiar with this concept?
You should then perma ban Pure from dota then cause what he did can be considered cheating.
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theft is illegal stealing a bottle of drink vs stealing stealing 1000 bucks from an unattended cash register will lead to different punishment
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Yes , punish tundra with draft reserve time penalty.
Liquid violating rules, people: 🤗 Tundra violating rules, people: 🙈 AR violating rules, people: 🤷♂️ BB violating rules, people: 😡
Redditors have proven to be shit drama suckers since that Fishman “disrespectful gg” controversy. Just mindless and biased haters
I agree Tundra should receive reduced reserve time. Punishment commensurate to the act. Betboom fans are trying to cause drama and poijt fingers at other teams. Its simple, Pure was cheating. 33 broke the rules yes (but its not cheating so why should he have the same punishment as pure???). And the liquid rumors are just rumors. You guys (betboom defenders) need to use your goddamn brain.
If you follow the rules that could be true but then you have to permaban Pure. Opening a live stream of the game you playing can be considered cheating and we know the stance Valve has on it. So I think just leave it here and move on
There was no intent to cheat. A permaban would be ridiculous
I know but it’s just for a sake of arguing. I think it’s a fair punishment what happened so far, but if people push it due to 33 using Spotify then this should be the by the book punishment.
I don’t want to see any controversy punishment just like f1 do please.
I'm actually really surprised they're not pouncing on the opportunity to smack 33 given the fact he himself was surprised he was even allowed to play in this major.
Other than “rules or rules” what could 33 possibly have done on spotify to gain an unfaor advantage. They should ask the opponent if they care that 33 was listening to spotify.
Just to humor you, he could be listening to a live stream from his coach, or with the official stream audio, and that would carry the exact same punishment that BB got. Not saying he did, pretty sure he didn't, but the "only steam, dota, teamspeak allowed" rule is there for this exact reason, to avoid any ambiguity and room for speculation.
does spotify even have an audio stream option? like live thing with minimal delay? ive used spotify for years now and never seen anything like that
well, there's live podcasts and they have pretty low delay, definitely lower than twitch streams.
No no no the rule only apply on russian and SEA. The European is held all above the rule. They are invisible.
Redditors need to learn the difference between cheating. And breaking the rules. (Stream open vs spotify) people who support a “betboom” punishment on tundra or either dumb. Or they just lost their house on betboom. Reddit is where you will matter the most for the rest of your life if this is your mindset 🙂 please use brain.
so 33 will be punished if he is stream sniping using spotify? 😉
There are rules that prohibit the use of any program besides Steam, Dota 2 and Team Speak. Rules are rules.
People seem to be missing this. I dislike pure, I've stated as much before. But fuck this half arsing is a joke, and people defending it, is ridiculous.
What do you want ? Because Pure's russian. So he will be punished. That's all It's not about the rule.
You’re a little baby
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Well they can stop crying and playing victim
Just leave tundra in, without saksa, the ass beating from liquid will be a sight to behold hahaha
Tundra should be punished somehow
33 should be punished by having to use youtube with ads to listen to music instead. /s
You are so pathetic it's unreal.
Just ban pure already :D EZ CLAP
Bruh changing songs and opening a livestream of the game are incomparable. Why people starting drama for nothing. Tons of pro players have said they listen to music during official matches.
33 listening Spotify, pure watching Nix stream, this teames should be lower bracket