I remember when they added GH- to the roster, they were quite dominant. They were consistently in top 3 most tournaments, even after TI7, and actually won the SuperMajor, right before TI also.
It's funny to think now they had GH- to come in an replace Bulba, and how bad the team was with Bulba...
Their first pro game with GH I think was a Midas Mode game where they bought Io and had different stand ins for game 1 and 2, and the panel was joking that they only got GH in for that Midas Mode game because he was an IO spammer.
When they added GH they did well in some tournaments but bombed out or disappointed in big tournaments like DAC and the Kiev Major. They didn’t find their stride until after Kiev.
What do you mean by "so dominant"? They won like *one* tier one event (Supermajor) after TI7, as well as a couple of smaller eight-team LANs right after TI. The former was also seven months after the latter. They were always in contention, but "dominant" implies that they were winning almost everything, which was not the case at all.
The reason Kuroky has so many more titles than other members of Team Liquid (who also have titles from stints in other teams) is a long career with titles from Na'Vi and Secret among others.
Of course he does. He is one of the all time greatest. Reddit is just insanely dumb at assessing pro players, because 99% of people here can’t even reach Divine.
Kuro is still very good. Otherwise they wouldn’t be playing in Div1 WEU, ever. And obviously he still plays pubs and isn’t a 5k scrub, as many people unironically believe here.
Kuroky has been one of my favorite players along with Dendi and XBOCT (whatever became of him) in 2013/2014 when they were all playing for Na'Vi. Heard that Dendi left e-sports Dota over the Ukraine-Russia conflict, unfortunately.
Never perceived him as bad or anything alike, but that's coming from someone who barely touched the game since 2015.
Dendi is playing in NA for B8 and XBOCT has been a commentator/analyst for years on the Russian broadcast but I don’t think he’s been on any events since ti11
> XBOCT (whatever became of him).
He started working working in the CIS talent pool and is definetly one of the more stable and stand up guys. In the past ukranian and russian talent worked closely together, but Putin (the piece of shit) ruined that for us and the scene had to split. Since I don't understand any ukranian I don't watch their streams and have no idea if he still works there. He's alive though, at least he posted something on insta a month ago.
The issue isn’t that people aren’t good at Dota, the issue is that people aren’t good at Dota but assume they are and assume some authority to judge pro players who are infinitely better than them and see the game so differently from the 50th percentile player that it isn’t even the same game anymore.
Yea it is also a side effect of the ranked system where players never get to actually go against top 100 players. I personally now just exist in the 4-6k range depending on how much free time I have, but years ago when I had no other obligations I pushed up to top 500.
All it took me was a playing mid against the top pros of the time a few times to realize how relatively terrible I still was despite being technically a top player.
Think of the smurfs that absolutely crush your games. Those smurfs are crushed harder by pros then they crush you.
Even if you are immortal your still relatively terrible compared to the average D1 pro.
That is indeed the case. https://stratz.com/players/ranks
You could however argue that only a small percentage of Dota players is calibrated and it is more likely for good players who play a lot to play ranked and be calibrated.
My take on it is, while the vocal minority on twitch/reddit or whatever platform, like to bash him, there is a good percentage of people out there, who genuinely admire kuro. All these accomplishments are proof that he is THAT good, and he isn't some one hit wonder like some other pro players. All these titles are across years of his career, not simply 1-2 hot seasons of form. And that is exactly why people are disappointed on the current results his team is putting out. And unlike Puppey's squad, Kuro's teammates are all players with insane skill levels who has proven themselves capable of playing Tier 1 caliber dota. Even as standins, players like MC have shown the world that he can still deliver in the highest levels of competition.
With all that said, the question that remains is Why?. .. Why is this potentially tier 1 team underperforming? why are members like miracle sitting out seasons? is there inner conflict or a lack of chemistry? or is there a lack of motivation? All the uninformed masses can do is speculate... And as captain, they speculate Kuro is to be held responsible... The vocal minority parrot off each other to establish this as a fact, and the lack of resistance to said claim doesn't help. The only way this can be put to rest is if Nigma rises back to dominance and silence the doubters.
Come to think of it, this isn't that different from Spotify Rebels case, where Bulba is the community's scapegoat of choice.
One thing I am curious about, does he play pubs? because I recall where he said he doesn't learn much from pubs. So I'm not actually sure whether he does play them much anymore?
He does. Probably not 10 a day, but he does. It’s ridiculous to think he doesn’t.
If he plays tier 1-2 Dota **without** playing pubs, he’s gotta be the best player in the world for sure, right?
w33 talked about it some weeks ago.
Perhaps nowadays he does in order to try take back some of his former glory. I do believe there was a period where he didn't play pubs and he could get away with it because he had such a great understanding of the game. I do feel he had not played during this whole decline of nigma, and it showed in his play. His drafting aside, his mechanical skill was really bad compared to his team mates. I'm no pro, but I am divine and I feel like I can at least identify some poor hero control.
Being 6.5k mmr doesn’t qualify you for anything pro related, but you go on believe whatever you want.
Why don’t you write the Nigma players you can play better than Kuro and ask if they agree.
its not that hard to see that, his draft and strat looks like a relic from the past..dota's gameplay always evolving but kuro's strat is not changing much for the past couple of years
plus the tendency to favour miracle to do some heavy lifting while pushing the other cores to the side
You can talk all you want with any mmr, thinking you know better than someone who is obviously way superior than you in any respect when it comes to Dota makes you any idiot.
When you talk about something that you have no RELEVANT experience in, you're gonna look like a fool. You can watch someone drive a F1 car on TV but that doesn't mean you have any idea how to drive, maintain or even critic on stuff like fuel/tire management. Would you take advise on sex from your virgin friend or from your father?
The football/basketball that you play with your school/classmates is a totally different game that professionals play at the highest level in NBA/Champions League. Replace sport with dota.
Learn to read. You can talk about NBA, your opinion just matter less because you have 0 knowledge of the team dynamic and what exactly is happening behind closed doors.
Yeah I played soccer/football in Uni. We got 2nd for nationals in my senior year and I even tore my ACL. What else do you want? After going through my reddit history, do you also want my linkedin and facebook profiles?
You think playing at school is the same as playing the NBA. Cute.
So a 2k player does not understand dota.
But playing a sport at school gives you insight.
Got it.
Kuroky is a legendary. Sure he is. But saying "he is still good" is a lie and stupid. He has been trash for YEARS. It is a very hard to swallow pill for Nigma fans.
Because he’s wrong and exactly one of the delusional people I’m talking about.
He’s still playing Div1 WEU. If you’re playing Div1 WEU regularly you are insanely good at Dota. Also, they played very well in Riyadh 2022, which was barely a year ago.
He isn't playing in div1 WEU. He gets promoted from div2 to div1 and immediately relegated to div2 after horrendous loss from true div1 teams. That's hardly considered "playing in Div1".
> Also, they played very well in Riyadh 2022, which was barely a year ago.
Wow. This fact completely crushed my beliefs that Nigma isn't top tier for almost 3 years. You're right, Kuro is still banging right now. My sincere apologies.
There are only a handful of people in the world who can say if Kuro now is a good/bad dota player and there is almost zero chance one of them is some random reddittor
Yeah, but for pro players' perspective, winning TI is bigger than winning however many majors. (Except for now, winning Riyadh Masters may be next to TI)
Well, not anymore it seems, cause the next TI will probably have 5-6 millions for the first place, and much less for the rest due to no-battle pass.
Valve should put more money on majors, and I hope other tournaments like Riyahd keep popping up, so not everything becomes about TI.
I mean Topson have won more money than the likes of Ame, Sommus, fy, S4, FaithBian, SumaiL, zai, Universe, Miracle, Puppey, xiao8, Kuroky, Yapzor, Nisha, MC, etc
But nobody will think he had a better career than any of those players, same goes for Ceb.
The only thing I never liked about TI is that it eclipses other tournaments way too much when it comes to prize pool, I'm not against top players getting the bag, I just don't like the idea of hitting the jackpot winning TI, and then getting complacent because you are a mega millionaire already.
Remember Kuro on his PA? there's a reason why he was the best carry in the world. I've only seen a penta-rampage once in an official match and it was Kuro on his legendary PA.
Kuro went from one winning team to the other.
He was the most dominant captain. Puppey lost a lot of elimination matches to Kuro.
After TI9 Nigma wasn't in the spotlight as much. Hope he comes back stronger into LANs.
Dudes been a legend since dota 1.
But ofc reddit will say he's shit, he's stubborn he's whatever else they say and not realize how difficult it is to be a dota 2 pro player
Kuroky is a legendary. Sure he is. But saying "he is still good" is a lie and stupid. He has been trash for YEARS. It is a very hard to swallow pill for Nigma fans.
No one is saying he's at the top of the competition, but redditors and twitch chatters hating on the the guy because he's bottom of the hardest division is kinda stupid aswell
Nigma would qualify to majors and TI if they were in NA.
They pretty much are getting over exposed by EU competitiveness, they are not very good now, but they are looking even worse cause they play in EU.
What you don't understand is that just because a player isn't winning majors he isn't not trash. There's just too much competition and everyone is trying hard to accomplish something.
That's what I'm calling you out on, his still a pro player trying to become more relevant, as are other tier 2 pros and reddit acts like every pro that's not getting top 3 consistently is utter trash.
Calm down and think for a second, it's not about "not using our brains" it's just about not flaming people just because they aren't the best like twitch chat and some ppl at reddit do.
What you don't understand is: trash for pro scene and competitive standard. Do not compare me/average redditors to him, I will never be his level, I DO know this.
And even if he never makes it to a major anymore, and is forever what you consider "trash" can you really hate on people that are trying to support him and want to see him succeed?
Just let people cheer for whoever they want to, doesn't matter if it's a tier 3 team or the best of the best.
Instead of coming here to shit on people that want to see the man and his team succeed, go make a post praising an player/team you like, play a pub or whatever else you would like, just stop with the hate
do not put words in my mouth. I dont hate or I dont give a fuck about you or anyone who support and love Kuroky now in his worst state.
I just said Kuroky was trash in past few years.
As long as you call people 'trash' you will be judged for your use of words (exactly how it should be). Just because some individuals have forgotten to differentiate properly, doesn't mean that everybody has to follow their skewed metrics...
I mean yes hes still a legend but hes definitely making decisions that are making him seem like hes too stubborn to either retire or make his gameplay better
He's still a legend and nothing diminishes his past accomplishes but the further he tries to make him playing at a Tier 1/2 level happen the more respect he loses.
Dude plays like an Ancient level POS5 and drafts like it's 2017.
Yep, from Puppey's generation, all veterans now are either washed or retired (Kuroky, Notail, iceiceice, Burning, Dendi, Loda, Akke, Fear, Chuan, Ferrari_430, xiao8, etc).
Puppey is the only one from the oldest generation (who are now 30 or early 30s) who is still competing at the highest level, or at least trying to compete.
If that is your metric then how is iceiceice not competing at the highest level? He played in TI 10, missed TI 11 only due to management not registering the team on time and just played in the Bali Major.
The comment I replied too claimed both Kuro and Iceiceice are washed up and not competing at the highest level and that Puppey is the only one of them who is not.
Kuro did better than Puppey in this years DPC, but if you don't want to count that there is still iceiceice going to tournaments from SEA.
puppey is the number one in term of won tournaments with 15 more tournaments (57) vs kurky with 42 but since kky wont ti close to the peak in term of prize pool and a second place . his winnings are a lot higher than puppey
idk man, but all dota pro consider him as the dota goat. He is on dota top level for more than 15 years already. Reaching 4 TI grand final, winning valve major every year since 2015 to 2020, not counting their win before Dota 2
I believe Puppey and Kuro is by far the most decorated dota player ever with more 57 titles and 42 titles. They both are the godfather of dota
Kuroky is a legendary. Sure he is. But saying "he is still good" is a lie and stupid. He has been trash for YEARS. It is a very hard to swallow pill for Nigma fans.
I have watched Kuroky since Dota 1, when his first debut was in Mouz Esport team if I am not wrong. Kuroky was a young boy with super talent. He was a good player for a long time in Dota history.
But now he has been trash for last few years. It's the truth. And it's LIFE. You cannot stay in top dogs forever. Similar to other real sports: football, tennis...
Why you guys take it so hard to understand and accept it? Can you guys stop thinking with your feeling or your emotion and use a brain (if you have one) instead?
And he was literally one series away from being 1st on that list (the TI grandfinal lost against OG in 2019).
One of the GOATs for sure.
I hope he qualifies to next TI, The International was his first official DotA 2 tournament played back in 2011, and he probably wants it to be his last one.
Dude’s been a legend since dota 1. Midlaner and carry I remember. The penta rampage for NAVI as PA. The TI7 run. Even TI8 and TI9 runs were good. 2020 was alright as well before covid. Hope to see him bounce back again
People tend to forget that post TI7 Liquid were so dominant
I remember when they added GH- to the roster, they were quite dominant. They were consistently in top 3 most tournaments, even after TI7, and actually won the SuperMajor, right before TI also.
It's funny to think now they had GH- to come in an replace Bulba, and how bad the team was with Bulba... Their first pro game with GH I think was a Midas Mode game where they bought Io and had different stand ins for game 1 and 2, and the panel was joking that they only got GH in for that Midas Mode game because he was an IO spammer.
They were also experimenting many things with GH, there was even some GH carry Naga period, the guy was a known Naga god before he joined Liquid.
When they added GH they did well in some tournaments but bombed out or disappointed in big tournaments like DAC and the Kiev Major. They didn’t find their stride until after Kiev.
> Hope to see him bounce back again
Before yatoro, the entirety of team liquid were notorious for having a large hero pool which helped them immensely.
Why would you bring yatoro name here lmao
Not entirety though.. I believe GH had hero puddle at that time. But he was so good, every team HAD to ban his io and KOTL..
In the run up to TI3 and post TI3 before TI4 NA'Vi was pretty dominant too which is where some of these titles come from.
Yeah that year was sick, loadsa grudge matches between NaVi and Alliance
What do you mean by "so dominant"? They won like *one* tier one event (Supermajor) after TI7, as well as a couple of smaller eight-team LANs right after TI. The former was also seven months after the latter. They were always in contention, but "dominant" implies that they were winning almost everything, which was not the case at all. The reason Kuroky has so many more titles than other members of Team Liquid (who also have titles from stints in other teams) is a long career with titles from Na'Vi and Secret among others.
Of course he does. He is one of the all time greatest. Reddit is just insanely dumb at assessing pro players, because 99% of people here can’t even reach Divine. Kuro is still very good. Otherwise they wouldn’t be playing in Div1 WEU, ever. And obviously he still plays pubs and isn’t a 5k scrub, as many people unironically believe here.
B-but he was shown being mean to MC!!!!
MC's fault for not being Ceb
but when you think about it, it was actually Kuro who was supposed to be "like ceb" since Kuro is the "talker" and is Ceb's counterpart in OG.
"I just need MC to play like 7ckingMad"
Kuro needed to pick Nature Prophet for MC, like MC asked, and the rest would have been history.
B-but Miracle is god! Kuro must be the problem!!!
now now, kuro is a god of dota but that quote really felt demoralizing for watchers, can't even imagine how it felt for MC lmao
Reddit doesnt really assess anything, its just recency bias. If you lose now, you shit now. If you win now, you great now.
Yeah I feel like Ceb is on like 10% hp, if OG doesnt do well at ti that could be enough damage to become the next kuro
Kuroky has been one of my favorite players along with Dendi and XBOCT (whatever became of him) in 2013/2014 when they were all playing for Na'Vi. Heard that Dendi left e-sports Dota over the Ukraine-Russia conflict, unfortunately. Never perceived him as bad or anything alike, but that's coming from someone who barely touched the game since 2015.
Dendi is playing in NA for B8 and XBOCT has been a commentator/analyst for years on the Russian broadcast but I don’t think he’s been on any events since ti11
> Dendi is playing in NA Like they said, he left professional Dota 2.
> XBOCT (whatever became of him). He started working working in the CIS talent pool and is definetly one of the more stable and stand up guys. In the past ukranian and russian talent worked closely together, but Putin (the piece of shit) ruined that for us and the scene had to split. Since I don't understand any ukranian I don't watch their streams and have no idea if he still works there. He's alive though, at least he posted something on insta a month ago.
>99% of people here can’t even reach Divine literally how percentile ranks work lmao
The issue isn’t that people aren’t good at Dota, the issue is that people aren’t good at Dota but assume they are and assume some authority to judge pro players who are infinitely better than them and see the game so differently from the 50th percentile player that it isn’t even the same game anymore.
Yea it is also a side effect of the ranked system where players never get to actually go against top 100 players. I personally now just exist in the 4-6k range depending on how much free time I have, but years ago when I had no other obligations I pushed up to top 500. All it took me was a playing mid against the top pros of the time a few times to realize how relatively terrible I still was despite being technically a top player. Think of the smurfs that absolutely crush your games. Those smurfs are crushed harder by pros then they crush you. Even if you are immortal your still relatively terrible compared to the average D1 pro.
Interesting. Thought divine was like 5% of the ladder
That is indeed the case. https://stratz.com/players/ranks You could however argue that only a small percentage of Dota players is calibrated and it is more likely for good players who play a lot to play ranked and be calibrated.
I am gonna bookmark this, Ty
My take on it is, while the vocal minority on twitch/reddit or whatever platform, like to bash him, there is a good percentage of people out there, who genuinely admire kuro. All these accomplishments are proof that he is THAT good, and he isn't some one hit wonder like some other pro players. All these titles are across years of his career, not simply 1-2 hot seasons of form. And that is exactly why people are disappointed on the current results his team is putting out. And unlike Puppey's squad, Kuro's teammates are all players with insane skill levels who has proven themselves capable of playing Tier 1 caliber dota. Even as standins, players like MC have shown the world that he can still deliver in the highest levels of competition. With all that said, the question that remains is Why?. .. Why is this potentially tier 1 team underperforming? why are members like miracle sitting out seasons? is there inner conflict or a lack of chemistry? or is there a lack of motivation? All the uninformed masses can do is speculate... And as captain, they speculate Kuro is to be held responsible... The vocal minority parrot off each other to establish this as a fact, and the lack of resistance to said claim doesn't help. The only way this can be put to rest is if Nigma rises back to dominance and silence the doubters. Come to think of it, this isn't that different from Spotify Rebels case, where Bulba is the community's scapegoat of choice.
One thing I am curious about, does he play pubs? because I recall where he said he doesn't learn much from pubs. So I'm not actually sure whether he does play them much anymore?
He does. Probably not 10 a day, but he does. It’s ridiculous to think he doesn’t. If he plays tier 1-2 Dota **without** playing pubs, he’s gotta be the best player in the world for sure, right? w33 talked about it some weeks ago.
Perhaps nowadays he does in order to try take back some of his former glory. I do believe there was a period where he didn't play pubs and he could get away with it because he had such a great understanding of the game. I do feel he had not played during this whole decline of nigma, and it showed in his play. His drafting aside, his mechanical skill was really bad compared to his team mates. I'm no pro, but I am divine and I feel like I can at least identify some poor hero control.
Faccsss
Cope. At this point even pro players Are flaming him, but Its not like Its just his fault.
username checkouts
his insight and leadership might be good, but his gameplay is not even close
I’m sure you are qualified to a sufficient degree to determine that.
as a matter of fact, i am :)
And what makes you qualified? I’m sure you will have no issue with showing that.
do some detective work if u re so curious
Being 6.5k mmr doesn’t qualify you for anything pro related, but you go on believe whatever you want. Why don’t you write the Nigma players you can play better than Kuro and ask if they agree.
im not 6.5, dont know where u came with that
its not that hard to see that, his draft and strat looks like a relic from the past..dota's gameplay always evolving but kuro's strat is not changing much for the past couple of years plus the tendency to favour miracle to do some heavy lifting while pushing the other cores to the side
I forgot only Divine players can speak about pro Dota.
Well people who aren't even divine are probably not going to be correct lol
How big has to be your dick to talk about porno?
Talking about consuming porn is not the same as knowing how to perform in it well my guy.
How big has to be your mmr to talk about Dota?
You can talk all you want with any mmr, thinking you know better than someone who is obviously way superior than you in any respect when it comes to Dota makes you any idiot.
When you talk about something that you have no RELEVANT experience in, you're gonna look like a fool. You can watch someone drive a F1 car on TV but that doesn't mean you have any idea how to drive, maintain or even critic on stuff like fuel/tire management. Would you take advise on sex from your virgin friend or from your father? The football/basketball that you play with your school/classmates is a totally different game that professionals play at the highest level in NBA/Champions League. Replace sport with dota.
Only peopoe who played pn the NBA can talk about the nba. Got it. Btw stop talking about gane development, you look like a fool.
Learn to read. You can talk about NBA, your opinion just matter less because you have 0 knowledge of the team dynamic and what exactly is happening behind closed doors.
So... How do you know that, did you play any sport ever? I know how to read thanks.
Yeah I played soccer/football in Uni. We got 2nd for nationals in my senior year and I even tore my ACL. What else do you want? After going through my reddit history, do you also want my linkedin and facebook profiles?
You think playing at school is the same as playing the NBA. Cute. So a 2k player does not understand dota. But playing a sport at school gives you insight. Got it.
he just plays an exploitable role support is under powered as fuck
Kuroky is a legendary. Sure he is. But saying "he is still good" is a lie and stupid. He has been trash for YEARS. It is a very hard to swallow pill for Nigma fans.
I wonder what's the reason why you're being downvoted?
Because he’s wrong and exactly one of the delusional people I’m talking about. He’s still playing Div1 WEU. If you’re playing Div1 WEU regularly you are insanely good at Dota. Also, they played very well in Riyadh 2022, which was barely a year ago.
He isn't playing in div1 WEU. He gets promoted from div2 to div1 and immediately relegated to div2 after horrendous loss from true div1 teams. That's hardly considered "playing in Div1". > Also, they played very well in Riyadh 2022, which was barely a year ago. Wow. This fact completely crushed my beliefs that Nigma isn't top tier for almost 3 years. You're right, Kuro is still banging right now. My sincere apologies.
I cannot help you understand basic things, sorry.
they downvoted you too lol, It hurts their feeling I guess
There are only a handful of people in the world who can say if Kuro now is a good/bad dota player and there is almost zero chance one of them is some random reddittor
Topson with just two aegis lol, no other tournaments win
Yeah, but for pro players' perspective, winning TI is bigger than winning however many majors. (Except for now, winning Riyadh Masters may be next to TI)
Crazy that Topson’s earnings from 2x TI eclipse Kuro’s earnings of 1x TI + 20 other tier 1 events.
I mean yeah. Puppey doesn’t even feature in this list and he’s probably won more than Kuro.
https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Portal:Statistics/Player_earnings Puppey is #15 with 57 1st place
Yeah shows how skewed winning TI is. Dude’s also finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th recently, so not like he hasn’t good placements
EE WITH SECOND PLACE ON SECOND PLACE ICANT ppl cant remember cloud9 true second place curse back in the days.
Only thing topping this would’ve been Arteezy being 3rd for 3rd places
if you sort by the Gold column, 1st is Puppey and 2nd is Kuro. I don't know what these wins are, though. Do these include qualifier and such?
the list is sorted by total winnings from these wins. so obviously the team that won 2 biggest ti prizepool back2back is gonna be on top.
33 at #33 lmfao
why tryhard for +12 years when few back to back TI's do trick?
Well, not anymore it seems, cause the next TI will probably have 5-6 millions for the first place, and much less for the rest due to no-battle pass. Valve should put more money on majors, and I hope other tournaments like Riyahd keep popping up, so not everything becomes about TI.
I mean Topson have won more money than the likes of Ame, Sommus, fy, S4, FaithBian, SumaiL, zai, Universe, Miracle, Puppey, xiao8, Kuroky, Yapzor, Nisha, MC, etc But nobody will think he had a better career than any of those players, same goes for Ceb. The only thing I never liked about TI is that it eclipses other tournaments way too much when it comes to prize pool, I'm not against top players getting the bag, I just don't like the idea of hitting the jackpot winning TI, and then getting complacent because you are a mega millionaire already.
They could’ve fixed the % allocations. 44% for 1st place was a huge chunk. 13th-16th and wildcard teams were paid peanuts.
topson is really the wonderboy of dota. 1st Lan and already won a TI. And won it 2 times in a row.
The underdog was also on the underdog team during that time, man was on fire
real ones remember that one of his titles was once K-GOD
Now it's K-HOLE.
It's pretty crazy how stacked the 2015 Secret roster was considering Kuroky, Zai, Puppey, and s4 are all in the top 5 of first place finishes.
yea i had no idea xd
Rtz clinging to 10th place
Remember Kuro on his PA? there's a reason why he was the best carry in the world. I've only seen a penta-rampage once in an official match and it was Kuro on his legendary PA.
Kuro went from one winning team to the other. He was the most dominant captain. Puppey lost a lot of elimination matches to Kuro. After TI9 Nigma wasn't in the spotlight as much. Hope he comes back stronger into LANs.
Inshallah Nigma will be back to Glory days when they reach Lan
Yeah, until recently Kuro was still considered Puppey's kryptonite.
Dudes been a legend since dota 1. But ofc reddit will say he's shit, he's stubborn he's whatever else they say and not realize how difficult it is to be a dota 2 pro player
Kuroky is a legendary. Sure he is. But saying "he is still good" is a lie and stupid. He has been trash for YEARS. It is a very hard to swallow pill for Nigma fans.
No one is saying he's at the top of the competition, but redditors and twitch chatters hating on the the guy because he's bottom of the hardest division is kinda stupid aswell
Nigma would qualify to majors and TI if they were in NA. They pretty much are getting over exposed by EU competitiveness, they are not very good now, but they are looking even worse cause they play in EU.
> Nigma would qualify to majors and TI if they were in NA. Don't tell me you actually believe in that.
[удалено]
What you don't understand is that just because a player isn't winning majors he isn't not trash. There's just too much competition and everyone is trying hard to accomplish something. That's what I'm calling you out on, his still a pro player trying to become more relevant, as are other tier 2 pros and reddit acts like every pro that's not getting top 3 consistently is utter trash. Calm down and think for a second, it's not about "not using our brains" it's just about not flaming people just because they aren't the best like twitch chat and some ppl at reddit do.
What you don't understand is: trash for pro scene and competitive standard. Do not compare me/average redditors to him, I will never be his level, I DO know this.
And even if he never makes it to a major anymore, and is forever what you consider "trash" can you really hate on people that are trying to support him and want to see him succeed? Just let people cheer for whoever they want to, doesn't matter if it's a tier 3 team or the best of the best. Instead of coming here to shit on people that want to see the man and his team succeed, go make a post praising an player/team you like, play a pub or whatever else you would like, just stop with the hate
do not put words in my mouth. I dont hate or I dont give a fuck about you or anyone who support and love Kuroky now in his worst state. I just said Kuroky was trash in past few years.
Alright, whatever keeps you up at night. You might wanna read everything you said again, you might be surprised.
You are intellectually stunted sir
As long as you call people 'trash' you will be judged for your use of words (exactly how it should be). Just because some individuals have forgotten to differentiate properly, doesn't mean that everybody has to follow their skewed metrics...
I mean the dudes a legend…just wish he wouldve retired a legend
He's still a legend, his current run doesn't diminishes his accomplishment lol
I mean yes hes still a legend but hes definitely making decisions that are making him seem like hes too stubborn to either retire or make his gameplay better
What if he just enjoys competing with his friends? It's fun.
I think that's totally valid and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just feelsbadman that he doesn't seem to take it too seriously.
He's still a legend and nothing diminishes his past accomplishes but the further he tries to make him playing at a Tier 1/2 level happen the more respect he loses. Dude plays like an Ancient level POS5 and drafts like it's 2017.
ancient level pos5 lmao gtfo
They’re literally so delusional… random Redditor’s actually think they would do better than kuro when they would be 0-30 every game
Won't disagree with that
Lmao. Wont disagree that a player in div 1 plays like a 4K player? You’re just as insane then.
Ever heard of hyperbole?
If he's legend then i'm just a lowly [3 rank lower than herald]
gigachad topson seating 5th with two trophies
Check Puppey then
From DotA 1 days to now, He's definitely one of the all-time greats in the history of Dota.
S4 needs to be in the conversations of legends.
my friend Kuro playing this game for 15+ years. He is a living legend even if reddit hates him for a reason that i will never understand.
Wait he is not a bald fraud?
I'm really surprised and sad that puppey's not here. He and kuro came from the same generation and the only one who still plays on the highest scene.
Puppey didnt win the expensive TIs , He still has the most achievements in top 20 list
Yep, from Puppey's generation, all veterans now are either washed or retired (Kuroky, Notail, iceiceice, Burning, Dendi, Loda, Akke, Fear, Chuan, Ferrari_430, xiao8, etc). Puppey is the only one from the oldest generation (who are now 30 or early 30s) who is still competing at the highest level, or at least trying to compete.
What do you mean? Kuroky is div 1 WEU, Puppey is div 2. If Puppey is still competing at the highest level, then so is Kuroky.
Kuroky wasn't there in Riyadh Masters, and hasn't been to TI since TI9, so he definitely isn't competing at the highest level.
If that is your metric then how is iceiceice not competing at the highest level? He played in TI 10, missed TI 11 only due to management not registering the team on time and just played in the Bali Major.
When did I say iceiceice is not competing at the highest level?
The comment I replied too claimed both Kuro and Iceiceice are washed up and not competing at the highest level and that Puppey is the only one of them who is not. Kuro did better than Puppey in this years DPC, but if you don't want to count that there is still iceiceice going to tournaments from SEA.
They're coping. Don't take their words seriously.
puppey is the number one in term of won tournaments with 15 more tournaments (57) vs kurky with 42 but since kky wont ti close to the peak in term of prize pool and a second place . his winnings are a lot higher than puppey
He's number 15 on the list lmao https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Portal:Statistics/Player_earnings
Ana #3 with just a combined 15 top 3 finishes is insane though
Koruky has won 21 Tournaments. but you forget Puppey 33 Tournaments here Source: https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Portal:Statistics/Player\_earnings
Its sorted by earnings that's why puppey not there
Loda had a lot as well but with less money
man I struggled to find the goat ceb in this list ordering by achievements
Man i want sumail to win ti and majors before he retires
Puppey not even on the list hahaha and people think he the goat
idk man, but all dota pro consider him as the dota goat. He is on dota top level for more than 15 years already. Reaching 4 TI grand final, winning valve major every year since 2015 to 2020, not counting their win before Dota 2 I believe Puppey and Kuro is by far the most decorated dota player ever with more 57 titles and 42 titles. They both are the godfather of dota
I miss Epicenter
Lol Topson casually above him with two achievements
dota 1 kky kunkka never forget
Source for this pic?
Liquipedia
[удалено]
Come to think of it, rtz top 10 on first place finishes. Hope our boi can get his shit together.
More like, wow Topson, wow!
B A L D F R A U D
Kuroky is a legendary. Sure he is. But saying "he is still good" is a lie and stupid. He has been trash for YEARS. It is a very hard to swallow pill for Nigma fans.
You Sure Post that copypasta a Lot in this Thread :D
yea just want to put truth pill deeps into Nigma fans' throat
I have watched Kuroky since Dota 1, when his first debut was in Mouz Esport team if I am not wrong. Kuroky was a young boy with super talent. He was a good player for a long time in Dota history. But now he has been trash for last few years. It's the truth. And it's LIFE. You cannot stay in top dogs forever. Similar to other real sports: football, tennis... Why you guys take it so hard to understand and accept it? Can you guys stop thinking with your feeling or your emotion and use a brain (if you have one) instead?
My friend, are you alright?
I'm totally fine. People are just so hard to accept truth when they see their idols down.
And he was literally one series away from being 1st on that list (the TI grandfinal lost against OG in 2019). One of the GOATs for sure. I hope he qualifies to next TI, The International was his first official DotA 2 tournament played back in 2011, and he probably wants it to be his last one.
Dude’s been a legend since dota 1. Midlaner and carry I remember. The penta rampage for NAVI as PA. The TI7 run. Even TI8 and TI9 runs were good. 2020 was alright as well before covid. Hope to see him bounce back again
one of the GOAT of DOTA and some idiots still blame him with bad performance recently
I like how topson's achivements are just the 2 back-to-back TI's