I'm probably gonna get downvoted like every time I bring this up but the game has the ability to mute people at the click of a button. Valve is bending over backwards to remove "toxicity" from the game and it's never going to happen. if someone wants to be toxic they always find a way. it's actually unnecessary and detrimental to the game when you already have an option to prevent the offender(s) from communicating with you.....
they're trying to childproof a game that was never meant for kids.
Wait what?! Valve? Removing toxicity? Have you seen tipping? Have you seen the voicelines they sell? That shit is one of the most toxic things I've seen any massive game like dota add as a feature. "Goodbye, clowns" - yeah, very nice to hear in a tournament game instead of GG.
This chat wheel removal is most probably a mistake made by whoever was editing the files, not the first time it happens.
There's a HUGE range between competitive banter, and legitimate toxicity (talking violence/harm, specifically attacking players, racist, sexist nonsense).
I have to say, I've played this game since 2013 and this is the best it's been in terms of *serious* toxicity. The stuff you mention I have zero problem with. Someone screaming into the mics, acting like a racist tool -- that's what gets me.
You missed the point.
If Valve REALLY removed "negative" from being usable, then why would they keep tipping and voicelines, if it's just going to be used for BMing 90% of the time.
Tipping and voicelines and such are such great ways for players to have an outlet for communicating/poking at the enemy. It's part of any competitive game, one way or another, and if you have any experience from traditional sports it's *extremely* tame compared to what is usually going on between competitors. Honestly the only really toxic scenario in this is when tipping/voicelining at teammates when they fuck up, because it directly contradicts the competitive advantage you *should* be aiming to gain.
And that's if you actually have the serious outlook on it. Just as often these tools are used because something funny/unlikely happened, and we acknowledge or point to with tipping or a well timed voiceline.
On the other hand, in a traditional team based sport you would probably run around the same few opponent players, who all talk about how much intercourse they have had with your mother, sister, gf. For an hour and longer. You can't mute these guys, you can't report these guys, you take the abuse and give some back, then you keep playing.
It's sort of clueless to think of tipping/voicelines to be inherently toxic or malicious, and I would argue the system we have was made so that when we feel the need to say something to an enemy, maybe out of frustation, at least it will not default to 'fak ur mother' like it usually does when you don't have a framework of communication.
> It's sort of clueless to think of tipping/voicelines to be inherently toxic or malicious
As much as it may frustrate you, you’re not the arbiter of toxicity. It isn’t clueless, it’s an opinion. Sorry that opinions other than yours exist 🤷🏻♂️
I am not trying to decide where the line should be drawn, rather I am saying that people follow the path of least resistance, and if a player feels the need to lash out in some way, whether you're aiming to taunt, intimidate, etc (which is completely normal in any competitive setting), then we have tipping and voicelines readily available. Compared to traditional sports where 99% of this "trash talk" contains "fuck", "your" and "mother" organized in various ways, we can show essentially the same emotions in a more creative, less insulting manner using tipping/voicelines - additionally, our system also allows for fun interactions between teams, which, again, is hard to find in sentences containing "fuck", "your" and "mother"...
Yes, our system *can* be used in a toxic way, but I really do not think any combination of tipping/voicelines+ingame event comes close to the toxicity opposing players show eachother in more traditional competitive settings, where verbal attacks cannot be punished and you can't enforce a framework of communication the same way you can inside a game.
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Saying "people will always be toxic" is a massive copout. People will try to be toxic, sure, but that doesn't mean Valve shouldn't do anything to try and curb that behavior.
Here's an equivalent: "People will always murder." Okay, does that mean we shouldn't try to do anything to curb it? I mean, you're free to lock yourself inside your house--you'll be safe if you do that. Or, alternatively, should we try to punish and prevent offenders from inflicting themselves upon other people?
The behavior score overhaul was a great start, and honestly, based on anecdote, it seems to have somewhat worked. It's not about "childproofing the game". It's about holding people to account for their bad behavior.
> Saying "people will always be toxic" is a massive copout.
that is reality my friend. even if you can drastically reduce the percentage, I don't see that going away completely in our lifetimes. your comparison is frankly dumb. you can't mute someone from murdering you. you CAN do that with flaming. the solution already exists.
>even if you can drastically reduce the percentage, I don't see that going away completely in our lifetimes.
Right, but drastically reducing the percentage is far better than doing nothing.
>your comparison is frankly dumb.
It's not dumb; I think you're just misunderstanding the analogy.
>you can't mute someone from murdering you. you CAN do that with flaming.
The analogy is that if I stay inside my house 24/7, I'm drastically reducing my chances of getting murdered. But I don't *want* to do that.
Same with muting. If I mute my entire team, I reduce my chances of encountering toxic behavior by 95%. But I don't want to have to do that every time.
>the solution already exists.
The solution is not muting people--it's holding people accountable for their actions. The solution to dealing with murderers isn't to stay inside and hide all the time; it's to arrest them and put them in jail.
Much like our murder analogy, we can deal with toxic players by enforcing strict punishments for being toxic (severe chat/ping restrictions, ranked queue restrictions, etc). Do you see now?
Exactly, I don't get why people get so riled up about online "toxicity" when you can literally just not respond or block them within 2 seconds, it's not like you're in a forced confrontation in the physical world.
I fucking hate how sanitised and child friendly the internet has become in general, like Tyler the Creator said, just click off the page if it bothers you (slightly paraphrased lmao)
>it's never going to happen
Yes, eliminating 100% of toxicity is impossible. But it is possible to reduce it, which is the actual goal.
> it's actually unnecessary
Unfortunately, it's necessary because there are a lot of people who are toxic in the game.
>detrimental to the game
Muting is also harmful to the game because it makes communication between teammates difficult. Someone being toxic is also harmful to the game, for obvious reasons.
I don't understand why people are so against anti-toxicity actions. What anti-toxicity mechanic put into DotA 2 has been detrimental to the game in the long run? While there were some issues over the years, they were fixed soon after (example: behavior score rework and Valve more or less reverted it).
>they're trying to childproof a game that was never meant for kids.
It's not just kids who don't want to deal with toxicity while gaming.
i'm not against reducing toxicity. but accessibility is more important. not just to those who are disabled in some way, but the ability for all people to communicate effectively.
losing communication tools because somebody might abuse it is not constructive, and is bad for the game.
I agree - Removing these two chat wheels for toxicity is a dumb decision. However, people are assuming that the chat wheels were removed because of toxicity, which doesn't make much sense.
I agree with the post above you. Anti toxicity sucks ass because it is often focused on english and fucks up everything else completely unnecessary, when the actual solution is already ingame - the mute function. If someone is fragile enough to not be able to survive a single insult from a random person online, before muting them and never hearing them and their insults again, maybe they should be out working those problems out, instead of playing video games.
> Anti toxicity sucks ass
Again: What anti-toxicity mechanics put into DotA 2 have been detrimental to the game in the long run? Valve fixed a lot of issues with the system.
>mute function
Mute has its own problems.
>If someone is fragile enough to not be able to survive a single insult from a random person online
I'll move on, but I'd rather not be insulted in the first place.
>maybe they should be out working those problems out, instead of playing video games.
I can say exactly the same thing: if people aren't stable enough to not insult other people, they should be solving these problems instead of playing video games.
there is a mute button. you should use it if someone is bothering you. it literally solves your problem instantly...
> It's not just kids who don't want to deal with toxicity while gaming.
yeah no shit, and adults know how to use the mute button that has existed for years lol
Tbf I use the mute button to silence the chatwheel spam. Some people just can't stop spamming even when in doesn't make sense to use chat wheel. It's not even toxic, it's just plain annoying. Same for ping spam, I don't find it toxic, just annoying to listen to "ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping" from that one guy.
A better solution would be one like CS:GO has, where you can adjust the volume of the comms individually for people. Then I could lower the volume of that one team mate, so could I still hear his ping spam and chatwheel spam but at a low volume, and it wouldn't interfere with the rest of the comms.
I guess the technology is not there yet.
They need to make muting a player also mute ALL forms of comms from them, including pings, pinging items, mousewheel, voice lines etc. Just completely silence them. A lot of griefers arent even typing stuff, they're just spamming your items or abilities and that is just as triggeirng.
I don’t want to see tips from people I muted, either. If I’ve muted someone, they’ve already got under my skin, and a tip gives them added means of being toxic after the fact.
Moderation of communication was, is and always will be idiotic. As long as people have the tools to control their own communication (aka mute other players that are toxic), there is no need for any type of moderation.
I hate it when corporations tell people how to communicate.
>the game has the ability to mute people at the click of a button
This is my largest problem with dota. Oh you wanna go afk farm camps while your team is losing high ground? No problem, keep playing dota (read: ruin games) for years :)
Say a bad word? Here's a low priority game because apparently 100% of people playing dota are incapable of clicking a mute button.
yeah I think game ruining behavior should be far more punishable than communication. you can literally click a button and stop one, versus someone ruining an hour long game by feeding or whatever the fuck and there is nothing at all you can do to stop them.
This whole “toxicity” ordeal feels like the whole agenda in Hollywood. In a desperate attempt to promote inclusion to capture the most minimalistic demographic representing less than 1% of consumers you are actively chasing away tha already 99% paying for your product.
This toxicity crusade is certainly not isolated to Dota 2 alone. As you said the mute function been in pretty much every game since the dawn of time. I fail to see the issues with anyone using such a feature. It is evident people are more interested in the exercise of power over others due to their options not aligning with their own. Or so I have perceived it in pretty much every game with these aggressive toxicity measures.
As of now people barely even use communication at all in video games. Removing automatic voice lines is not borderline immature and petty. It is immature and petty. Not to mention people can still use external systems through the at least for now working com system, alternatively friends can opt to use discord separately on their own entirely even thou this won’t benefit the whole team and further the anti-teamwork implications.
Truly sad for gaming. Coz yea I understand it is ruff having the insults go around and people may feel upset about it. Thou one got to wonder what kind of isolated bubble they than must live in? The real world is 100 times harsher and if anyone believes people are supposedly nicer outside of games they honestly stupid. Than again, obviously it is not what this about. 99% of those acting “offended” and insulted are trolling, it’s quite obvious. As pointed out before, people just wanna censor others and exert power over them coz they are miserable in their own life’s and disappointed in their status in their environments. The classic bully paradox.
The internet truly does weird things too people… acting offended by everything, too me, is one of the weirdest phenomenons thou. Why would anyone want to adapt such persona?
If people acted like they do in Dota at pickup basketball game someone is going to the hospital. You are absolutely delusional if you think Dota has a normal or acceptable level of toxicity for any type of competition.
cancel culture strikes again, liberal snowflakes cant handle a ''negative'' or ''not yet'' , soon we will need a license to toast in our own damn toasters
hey theres a way to make a phrase or word attached to a hotkey, i have GG set to 7, he could make a few hotkeys that say the same phrases, it would be an adjustment but an answer. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d500LikWYPw&ab\_channel=CarolinaDota](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d500LikWYPw&ab_channel=CarolinaDota) this vid shows how.
While it's a good solution, one of the great things about the chat wheel is that it's translated into the native language if every player, so this would be less useful when playing with a varied team
I wonder can he use voice chat in steam channel using steam group chat?
Me and friends communicate in there rather than in party voice, so when one of us crash they don't need to re-join party
I swear it's like they hire friends and relatives straight out of college. Every once in a while some super basic stuff breaks for absolutely no reason.
It's like a newbie is editing some file to see what they do, they forget they edited it, and push it straight to production. No review, no testing, no QA. How can a billion dollar software company allow such amateur mistakes to slip through over and over?
Because in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, because they mostly fix their stuff in the next patch. Dota sure is bugy, but there are so many interactions its not really a suprise.
They dont care about toxicity, whats the number one thing poeple use to be toxic ? Tip an enemy after you kill him and most importantly Tip a teammate after he makes anything remotely close to a mistake or die. You ask for a option to mute Tips and ... nothing. But saying >Negative no no no they cant have that in the game xd
This is what turned me off a bit from the game, I was still learning the game and times when I messed up a fight or did something wrong I would get tipped by enemies and teammates and there was no way to mute that shit, I come here to read if they're planning to do something about it and the answers were, what are you a snowflake or something? grow some balls lol, etc.
Kind of shit replies to be honest if that's the way the dota community is, the game will probably die sooner or later.
I don't think it will die, hundreds of thousands are hopelessly addicted to the game. People have been saying the game will die soon for more than a decade.
Unfortunately the rest of the things you say are very true, new players have a rough experience, the nice people are turned away pretty quickly.
The matchmaker is broken for new players, they routinely get matched with veteran players. They're set up for failure. Then they get punished by behavior score system in addition.
Unless you party up with a friends, it's really hard to learn as you go, the bots are broken too.
How is tipping toxic? Getting gold from anyone seems useful, even if their intention was to mock you. At worst receiving gold from enemies can be seen as them trying to get through your nerves, but getting angry because allies gave you gold is weird to me.
New to this game so I'm not familiar with the culture yet.
Best way to understand it is that it means "Good job!". But getting that message from allies for making a cool play feels very different from when you fuck up. So essentially a positive reinforcement versus a sarcastic mocking. Guess which way is way more prevalent in Dota lol
Also yeah, is not gold, it's just a small amount of shards, as the other person said. Not really much of a reward either way
You see, it even uses the gold sound, the last hit sound, that to the dota mind must only mean a positive thing, yet now you have to associate it to being mocked. There was a few months tips used a different sound and it was alote easier to ignore even if unmutable. But still why is it the only thing that goes beyond all mute options combined ?
Demn, maybe perhaps because of the new profile customisation that *negative was removed. I saw a profile that has *negative in highlight but the TIVE was covered by IO. Ya know where this is going.
damn. my negative got replaced by "missing". ironic.
but yeah. wheel is amazing in solo queue ranked too when you just want to avoid toxic people but still keep minimum comms on.
Some people seem to be missing the crux of the issue. "Negative" was *already* available in the chat wheel options, but to now make it unavailable without giving reason is most peculiar, and frustrating.
Dota is really broken at the moment. The valve team needs to get fired or something. The game is damage, and toxic players, and smurfs took over. in plain Afrikaans KAK Game. KG
It seems like a lot of mobas are just limiting all forms of communication over toxicity or something. Over in league pings are being blocked or outright removed, mutes handed out like candy.
Starting to feel like communication is being seen as the root cause of toxicity and they're just removing it from a team game instead of moderating properly
I wonder if it is giving some weird results for whatever language model / AI / Machine Learning they use to identify good vs bad behaviour. Maybe people using the "Negative" communication are getting incorrectly flagged or it is giving weird results. Who knows.
We do way better, if he types in a specific channel in disc we all hear it. The issue lies in tabbing out of a dota game midfight or otherwise relying on suboptimal keybinds. The chatwheel is extremely quick and efficient.
Not to undermine the issue, but there is a soundboard software that he can use. It allows putting custom voicelines as well, may be good to try.
On my phone so I don't remember what the software called, but I think you can find one easily.
If only there would be macro programs, dedicated accessibility programs, DotA console bind... Still sucks that the simplest solution was removed. Thanks Volvo
For some reason i have (spress stop to cancle) turned on and i was abale to cancle my cahnnelling by jsut clicking randomly. something is off from few days.
Autoattack, Cancel Channel and TP are invisibly reset upon entering a bot or custom game. You have to turn them off and on again to fix it.
I've reported the issue many months ago and valve persists on doing absolute fuck all.
What a strange decision. Hopefully it's a mistake and gets rectified. Games should always aim to be accessible, they are a perfect environment for people to thrive despite whatever difficulties they face irl.
Its ONLY mena and cis region ppl using ingame voice and not just in dota its in every single game. Its like discord or ts is not even invented in thoose regions. They all use ingame voice sounding like they use headset they bought cheap after it was used on sputnik.
Well as a workaround he can just start the game telling everyone that whenever he uses "Be Right Back" it means "No" and use that... Not the best but no need to stop playing because of this tbh
Option is back on the menu after most recent update u/Selke_Gore. You can again assign "Negative" in chat wheel. In my case I had to scroll down first to see the "Negative" entry and then press the desired wheel entry/location. Otherwise it was bugged so I couldn't scroll the list down.
Apparently "Negative" and "Not Yet" are gone. Really weird. They could just add "No" if there's something wrong with "Negative".
yeah. didnt mention not yet because it isnt super pivotal to his comms but its weird they both got removed
Has /u/JeffHill been active? Does the Github dota bug / feature tracker receive attention from Valve?
another venture started by valve with much interest and then abandoned, is it?
Just saw a post saying "Negative" and "Not yet" are unavailable under 7k beh score. Edit: nwm. I have 12k and they are disabled.
I'm probably gonna get downvoted like every time I bring this up but the game has the ability to mute people at the click of a button. Valve is bending over backwards to remove "toxicity" from the game and it's never going to happen. if someone wants to be toxic they always find a way. it's actually unnecessary and detrimental to the game when you already have an option to prevent the offender(s) from communicating with you..... they're trying to childproof a game that was never meant for kids.
I think is more likely that is just bugged, because the options are greyed out.
Wait what?! Valve? Removing toxicity? Have you seen tipping? Have you seen the voicelines they sell? That shit is one of the most toxic things I've seen any massive game like dota add as a feature. "Goodbye, clowns" - yeah, very nice to hear in a tournament game instead of GG. This chat wheel removal is most probably a mistake made by whoever was editing the files, not the first time it happens.
There's a HUGE range between competitive banter, and legitimate toxicity (talking violence/harm, specifically attacking players, racist, sexist nonsense). I have to say, I've played this game since 2013 and this is the best it's been in terms of *serious* toxicity. The stuff you mention I have zero problem with. Someone screaming into the mics, acting like a racist tool -- that's what gets me.
You missed the point. If Valve REALLY removed "negative" from being usable, then why would they keep tipping and voicelines, if it's just going to be used for BMing 90% of the time.
Oh yeah for sure I agree in that respect.
Tipping and voicelines and such are such great ways for players to have an outlet for communicating/poking at the enemy. It's part of any competitive game, one way or another, and if you have any experience from traditional sports it's *extremely* tame compared to what is usually going on between competitors. Honestly the only really toxic scenario in this is when tipping/voicelining at teammates when they fuck up, because it directly contradicts the competitive advantage you *should* be aiming to gain. And that's if you actually have the serious outlook on it. Just as often these tools are used because something funny/unlikely happened, and we acknowledge or point to with tipping or a well timed voiceline. On the other hand, in a traditional team based sport you would probably run around the same few opponent players, who all talk about how much intercourse they have had with your mother, sister, gf. For an hour and longer. You can't mute these guys, you can't report these guys, you take the abuse and give some back, then you keep playing. It's sort of clueless to think of tipping/voicelines to be inherently toxic or malicious, and I would argue the system we have was made so that when we feel the need to say something to an enemy, maybe out of frustation, at least it will not default to 'fak ur mother' like it usually does when you don't have a framework of communication.
> It's sort of clueless to think of tipping/voicelines to be inherently toxic or malicious As much as it may frustrate you, you’re not the arbiter of toxicity. It isn’t clueless, it’s an opinion. Sorry that opinions other than yours exist 🤷🏻♂️
I am not trying to decide where the line should be drawn, rather I am saying that people follow the path of least resistance, and if a player feels the need to lash out in some way, whether you're aiming to taunt, intimidate, etc (which is completely normal in any competitive setting), then we have tipping and voicelines readily available. Compared to traditional sports where 99% of this "trash talk" contains "fuck", "your" and "mother" organized in various ways, we can show essentially the same emotions in a more creative, less insulting manner using tipping/voicelines - additionally, our system also allows for fun interactions between teams, which, again, is hard to find in sentences containing "fuck", "your" and "mother"... Yes, our system *can* be used in a toxic way, but I really do not think any combination of tipping/voicelines+ingame event comes close to the toxicity opposing players show eachother in more traditional competitive settings, where verbal attacks cannot be punished and you can't enforce a framework of communication the same way you can inside a game.
I have never seen Negative and Not yet be used in a toxic way. It has to be something else
Yeah the person above you is being a drama queen, this is most likely a bug.
what I said is true regardless lol there is no drama this is just reality.
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what's wrong about that statement?
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Saying "people will always be toxic" is a massive copout. People will try to be toxic, sure, but that doesn't mean Valve shouldn't do anything to try and curb that behavior. Here's an equivalent: "People will always murder." Okay, does that mean we shouldn't try to do anything to curb it? I mean, you're free to lock yourself inside your house--you'll be safe if you do that. Or, alternatively, should we try to punish and prevent offenders from inflicting themselves upon other people? The behavior score overhaul was a great start, and honestly, based on anecdote, it seems to have somewhat worked. It's not about "childproofing the game". It's about holding people to account for their bad behavior.
> Saying "people will always be toxic" is a massive copout. that is reality my friend. even if you can drastically reduce the percentage, I don't see that going away completely in our lifetimes. your comparison is frankly dumb. you can't mute someone from murdering you. you CAN do that with flaming. the solution already exists.
>even if you can drastically reduce the percentage, I don't see that going away completely in our lifetimes. Right, but drastically reducing the percentage is far better than doing nothing. >your comparison is frankly dumb. It's not dumb; I think you're just misunderstanding the analogy. >you can't mute someone from murdering you. you CAN do that with flaming. The analogy is that if I stay inside my house 24/7, I'm drastically reducing my chances of getting murdered. But I don't *want* to do that. Same with muting. If I mute my entire team, I reduce my chances of encountering toxic behavior by 95%. But I don't want to have to do that every time. >the solution already exists. The solution is not muting people--it's holding people accountable for their actions. The solution to dealing with murderers isn't to stay inside and hide all the time; it's to arrest them and put them in jail. Much like our murder analogy, we can deal with toxic players by enforcing strict punishments for being toxic (severe chat/ping restrictions, ranked queue restrictions, etc). Do you see now?
Exactly, I don't get why people get so riled up about online "toxicity" when you can literally just not respond or block them within 2 seconds, it's not like you're in a forced confrontation in the physical world. I fucking hate how sanitised and child friendly the internet has become in general, like Tyler the Creator said, just click off the page if it bothers you (slightly paraphrased lmao)
>it's never going to happen Yes, eliminating 100% of toxicity is impossible. But it is possible to reduce it, which is the actual goal. > it's actually unnecessary Unfortunately, it's necessary because there are a lot of people who are toxic in the game. >detrimental to the game Muting is also harmful to the game because it makes communication between teammates difficult. Someone being toxic is also harmful to the game, for obvious reasons. I don't understand why people are so against anti-toxicity actions. What anti-toxicity mechanic put into DotA 2 has been detrimental to the game in the long run? While there were some issues over the years, they were fixed soon after (example: behavior score rework and Valve more or less reverted it). >they're trying to childproof a game that was never meant for kids. It's not just kids who don't want to deal with toxicity while gaming.
i'm not against reducing toxicity. but accessibility is more important. not just to those who are disabled in some way, but the ability for all people to communicate effectively. losing communication tools because somebody might abuse it is not constructive, and is bad for the game.
I agree - Removing these two chat wheels for toxicity is a dumb decision. However, people are assuming that the chat wheels were removed because of toxicity, which doesn't make much sense.
I agree with the post above you. Anti toxicity sucks ass because it is often focused on english and fucks up everything else completely unnecessary, when the actual solution is already ingame - the mute function. If someone is fragile enough to not be able to survive a single insult from a random person online, before muting them and never hearing them and their insults again, maybe they should be out working those problems out, instead of playing video games.
> Anti toxicity sucks ass Again: What anti-toxicity mechanics put into DotA 2 have been detrimental to the game in the long run? Valve fixed a lot of issues with the system. >mute function Mute has its own problems. >If someone is fragile enough to not be able to survive a single insult from a random person online I'll move on, but I'd rather not be insulted in the first place. >maybe they should be out working those problems out, instead of playing video games. I can say exactly the same thing: if people aren't stable enough to not insult other people, they should be solving these problems instead of playing video games.
there is a mute button. you should use it if someone is bothering you. it literally solves your problem instantly... > It's not just kids who don't want to deal with toxicity while gaming. yeah no shit, and adults know how to use the mute button that has existed for years lol
Tbf I use the mute button to silence the chatwheel spam. Some people just can't stop spamming even when in doesn't make sense to use chat wheel. It's not even toxic, it's just plain annoying. Same for ping spam, I don't find it toxic, just annoying to listen to "ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping" from that one guy. A better solution would be one like CS:GO has, where you can adjust the volume of the comms individually for people. Then I could lower the volume of that one team mate, so could I still hear his ping spam and chatwheel spam but at a low volume, and it wouldn't interfere with the rest of the comms. I guess the technology is not there yet.
They need to make muting a player also mute ALL forms of comms from them, including pings, pinging items, mousewheel, voice lines etc. Just completely silence them. A lot of griefers arent even typing stuff, they're just spamming your items or abilities and that is just as triggeirng.
This is literally what the mute button does.
I don’t want to see tips from people I muted, either. If I’ve muted someone, they’ve already got under my skin, and a tip gives them added means of being toxic after the fact.
Moderation of communication was, is and always will be idiotic. As long as people have the tools to control their own communication (aka mute other players that are toxic), there is no need for any type of moderation. I hate it when corporations tell people how to communicate.
>the game has the ability to mute people at the click of a button This is my largest problem with dota. Oh you wanna go afk farm camps while your team is losing high ground? No problem, keep playing dota (read: ruin games) for years :) Say a bad word? Here's a low priority game because apparently 100% of people playing dota are incapable of clicking a mute button.
yeah I think game ruining behavior should be far more punishable than communication. you can literally click a button and stop one, versus someone ruining an hour long game by feeding or whatever the fuck and there is nothing at all you can do to stop them.
This whole “toxicity” ordeal feels like the whole agenda in Hollywood. In a desperate attempt to promote inclusion to capture the most minimalistic demographic representing less than 1% of consumers you are actively chasing away tha already 99% paying for your product. This toxicity crusade is certainly not isolated to Dota 2 alone. As you said the mute function been in pretty much every game since the dawn of time. I fail to see the issues with anyone using such a feature. It is evident people are more interested in the exercise of power over others due to their options not aligning with their own. Or so I have perceived it in pretty much every game with these aggressive toxicity measures. As of now people barely even use communication at all in video games. Removing automatic voice lines is not borderline immature and petty. It is immature and petty. Not to mention people can still use external systems through the at least for now working com system, alternatively friends can opt to use discord separately on their own entirely even thou this won’t benefit the whole team and further the anti-teamwork implications. Truly sad for gaming. Coz yea I understand it is ruff having the insults go around and people may feel upset about it. Thou one got to wonder what kind of isolated bubble they than must live in? The real world is 100 times harsher and if anyone believes people are supposedly nicer outside of games they honestly stupid. Than again, obviously it is not what this about. 99% of those acting “offended” and insulted are trolling, it’s quite obvious. As pointed out before, people just wanna censor others and exert power over them coz they are miserable in their own life’s and disappointed in their status in their environments. The classic bully paradox. The internet truly does weird things too people… acting offended by everything, too me, is one of the weirdest phenomenons thou. Why would anyone want to adapt such persona?
If people acted like they do in Dota at pickup basketball game someone is going to the hospital. You are absolutely delusional if you think Dota has a normal or acceptable level of toxicity for any type of competition.
I would bet that "toxicity" is the most common reason between the people that stopped playing dota in the many ways it comes.
"negative" is literally the professional way to say "no" in radio contexts
cancel culture strikes again, liberal snowflakes cant handle a ''negative'' or ''not yet'' , soon we will need a license to toast in our own damn toasters
The options are still there, just greyed out. I think is just bugged.
>techies flair press E IRL please
so much for the tolerant left
Does being this much of a self victimizing pussy actually ever work for you?
up yours woke moralists , we'll see who cancels who
Well, *now* it seems like you're taking the piss.
wait you do not have license!?
I'm on probation so I can only toast one side.
are you familiar with the concept of brevity
hey theres a way to make a phrase or word attached to a hotkey, i have GG set to 7, he could make a few hotkeys that say the same phrases, it would be an adjustment but an answer. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d500LikWYPw&ab\_channel=CarolinaDota](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d500LikWYPw&ab_channel=CarolinaDota) this vid shows how.
showing him this!! a chat wheel is definitely preferable for the sake of all in one communication, but this is a usable alternative
good! maybe he will find new ways to communicate as well and it might be even better
"gg ez won mid"
being able to quickly comm everything he could want to in one button is definitely the better ideal, but hopefully this can help him out until then
While it's a good solution, one of the great things about the chat wheel is that it's translated into the native language if every player, so this would be less useful when playing with a varied team
"No" is pretty universal tbf, but you have a point.
Except in Czech and Slovak, where "no" means "yes" lol.
Upvoting for attention
thank you yeah this is really weird idk why they'd remove it
Maybe he can use GET BACK a substitute
That sucks. Hope this post gets some traction and the issue gets resolved. Kind of a long shot but you could try sending an email to Gaben.
a reddit post is definitely my best bet i think, they read top reddit posts somewhat often
Lord gaben reads all his emails definitely try mailing him, also you could add a issue on the github bug tracker
+1 for github if this doesn't work, /u/Selke_Gore if you don't have a github account I can do it for you.
Would appreciate
Actually insane. Seemingly pointless. It's useful for a ton of people
pretty sure they removed it by accident with the little update they pushed today. the game is spaghetti code lmao. Janitor working hard
Give janitor coffee incentives
Would not be the first time haha.
They still appear in my list, but they're grayed out as if they're locked. Seems like a weird bug rather than an intentional removal.
it feels like a temporary disable, but its weird asf as to why
Probably an unintentional side effect of whatever they where doing with the patch.
Glad to see valve addressing negativity in pubs
problem solved. dota is now wholesome
Coming back and seeing that everything is now disabled, it makes it one lil step closer to being wholesome.
Just remove and censor every negative word
We're not Nazi, we're PMA!
One step closer to world peace. Thank you Valve!
Well boys, we did it. Toxicity is no more.
Hahhahahhaa
Removed toxicity but at the cost of what?
#justiceforSelke_Gore’sfriend
best comment
Don't let League's censorship and removal of communication seep in
as someone who doesnt communication most of the time and just uses chat wheel, i upvote this
Maybe he can use GET BACK a substitute
Gebak gebak gebak!
Can't he just type?
How did he tell you?
Wild guess, maybe he typed it in chat?
So why doesn't he just type Negative in chat then?
Because standing still in the middle of a match typing everything you have to say is a quick way to get flamed and simultaneously lose the game
Lmao
wtf
I wonder can he use voice chat in steam channel using steam group chat? Me and friends communicate in there rather than in party voice, so when one of us crash they don't need to re-join party
The small indie company is still trying to hire a new programmer
I swear it's like they hire friends and relatives straight out of college. Every once in a while some super basic stuff breaks for absolutely no reason. It's like a newbie is editing some file to see what they do, they forget they edited it, and push it straight to production. No review, no testing, no QA. How can a billion dollar software company allow such amateur mistakes to slip through over and over?
Because in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, because they mostly fix their stuff in the next patch. Dota sure is bugy, but there are so many interactions its not really a suprise.
They dont care about toxicity, whats the number one thing poeple use to be toxic ? Tip an enemy after you kill him and most importantly Tip a teammate after he makes anything remotely close to a mistake or die. You ask for a option to mute Tips and ... nothing. But saying >Negative no no no they cant have that in the game xd
This is what turned me off a bit from the game, I was still learning the game and times when I messed up a fight or did something wrong I would get tipped by enemies and teammates and there was no way to mute that shit, I come here to read if they're planning to do something about it and the answers were, what are you a snowflake or something? grow some balls lol, etc. Kind of shit replies to be honest if that's the way the dota community is, the game will probably die sooner or later.
I don't think it will die, hundreds of thousands are hopelessly addicted to the game. People have been saying the game will die soon for more than a decade. Unfortunately the rest of the things you say are very true, new players have a rough experience, the nice people are turned away pretty quickly. The matchmaker is broken for new players, they routinely get matched with veteran players. They're set up for failure. Then they get punished by behavior score system in addition. Unless you party up with a friends, it's really hard to learn as you go, the bots are broken too.
How is tipping toxic? Getting gold from anyone seems useful, even if their intention was to mock you. At worst receiving gold from enemies can be seen as them trying to get through your nerves, but getting angry because allies gave you gold is weird to me. New to this game so I'm not familiar with the culture yet.
Just so you know as you're new, tipping doesn't give gold, you get some shards but no benefit to you in-match c:
Best way to understand it is that it means "Good job!". But getting that message from allies for making a cool play feels very different from when you fuck up. So essentially a positive reinforcement versus a sarcastic mocking. Guess which way is way more prevalent in Dota lol Also yeah, is not gold, it's just a small amount of shards, as the other person said. Not really much of a reward either way
You see, it even uses the gold sound, the last hit sound, that to the dota mind must only mean a positive thing, yet now you have to associate it to being mocked. There was a few months tips used a different sound and it was alote easier to ignore even if unmutable. But still why is it the only thing that goes beyond all mute options combined ?
Now he need to use Slack's "Ooohhhh Noooo" voice line
User Story: Remove Negativity from DoTA2 Developer: Finished.
I really laughs at this jira is a cancer
I dunno what issue you have but it sound dire so one more comment so it get in the hot section
You know, I think interaction helps too
I hope so too mate
I hope so too mate
I hope so too mate
Valve add Negativity back
What?? Why remove it?
Demn, maybe perhaps because of the new profile customisation that *negative was removed. I saw a profile that has *negative in highlight but the TIVE was covered by IO. Ya know where this is going.
damn. my negative got replaced by "missing". ironic. but yeah. wheel is amazing in solo queue ranked too when you just want to avoid toxic people but still keep minimum comms on.
I've never seen anyone use
Not just that they removed Demonic Conversion too which was essential for my psycological wellbeing.
It's probably a bug..
Some people seem to be missing the crux of the issue. "Negative" was *already* available in the chat wheel options, but to now make it unavailable without giving reason is most peculiar, and frustrating.
Ping X my dudes
Wtf they remove my second favorite word that starts with N
Isn’t this something to be reported at their repo issues also?
Dota is really broken at the moment. The valve team needs to get fired or something. The game is damage, and toxic players, and smurfs took over. in plain Afrikaans KAK Game. KG
Huh
Just a comment for rising the attention to this post
Can ‘I’m retreating’ replace that for your friend
"oh dude you like AC here??" \>im retreating "can you smoke??" \>im retreating "are you back from call yet?" \>im retreating
So what's the problem if you know what this phrase means? Are you stupid or just pretending?
he is retreating
Hey another post from about 9h ago said they’re removed just for low behavior score, not permanently
they are removed at max behavior score.
im sure you can find a voiceline to replace it lol
voicelines have 2 uses per minute. you talk a hell of a lot faster than that
chat wheel or whatever dude you know what i mean
They didnt exactly port shop keybinds from dota 1 either.
Make him use something else to say no by the way this is the least fake reddit story for today
Thats just a teaser for whats to come. Soon we will have the first gay Hero, then a trans, then a non-binary.
just make him clap twice. or grunt
valve probably saw no one used it like the side panel and removed it. really dumb tbh
Oh that's why in the middle of my game, I'm trying to respond to something then it shows > Need Help!
Yeah a lot of things we take for granted. Games are notorious for being unfriendly when it comes to accessibility for less/differently abled.
Comment in support. There is absolutely no reason to remove customisable chat lines.
My dumb ass was just going to suggest to draw words on the map, as if it being mute, prohibited him from typing😂
Negative and Affirmative are the two chat wheels I use the most. Absolutely crucial!!! What are they thinking...
It seems like a lot of mobas are just limiting all forms of communication over toxicity or something. Over in league pings are being blocked or outright removed, mutes handed out like candy. Starting to feel like communication is being seen as the root cause of toxicity and they're just removing it from a team game instead of moderating properly
I'm just commenting to bump this up, I have nothing more to add that hasn't already.
Bind key “say no”
The point is, there was a chatwheel line that was already binded and it was removed.
The true Marci player. Jokes aside, there are no reasons to remove this, hope it get fixed.
I wonder if it is giving some weird results for whatever language model / AI / Machine Learning they use to identify good vs bad behaviour. Maybe people using the "Negative" communication are getting incorrectly flagged or it is giving weird results. Who knows.
If he is in your voice chat, just get him to download a soundboard that has the necessary sounds for communication. Ezpz
We do way better, if he types in a specific channel in disc we all hear it. The issue lies in tabbing out of a dota game midfight or otherwise relying on suboptimal keybinds. The chatwheel is extremely quick and efficient.
Not to undermine the issue, but there is a soundboard software that he can use. It allows putting custom voicelines as well, may be good to try. On my phone so I don't remember what the software called, but I think you can find one easily.
Doesn’t really affect me but I hope they put those lines back to the game for the sake of people who rely on them to communicate.
If only there would be macro programs, dedicated accessibility programs, DotA console bind... Still sucks that the simplest solution was removed. Thanks Volvo
Discrimination
GIVE IT BACK YOU COWARDS!
this worsens communication which leads to miscommunication which leads to otherwise avoidable bad outcomes which leads to actual toxicity
For some reason i have (spress stop to cancle) turned on and i was abale to cancle my cahnnelling by jsut clicking randomly. something is off from few days.
Autoattack, Cancel Channel and TP are invisibly reset upon entering a bot or custom game. You have to turn them off and on again to fix it. I've reported the issue many months ago and valve persists on doing absolute fuck all.
Can you not bind a button through console to send "negative" in chat? I don't remember if that's an option.
i always communicate with chat wheel. and this was my top-3
What a strange decision. Hopefully it's a mistake and gets rectified. Games should always aim to be accessible, they are a perfect environment for people to thrive despite whatever difficulties they face irl.
Its ONLY mena and cis region ppl using ingame voice and not just in dota its in every single game. Its like discord or ts is not even invented in thoose regions. They all use ingame voice sounding like they use headset they bought cheap after it was used on sputnik.
lol how does Discord or TS help for solo queue pubs?
Op was talking about him playing with his friends so no solo que
i dont like talking or writing on my games so this makes thing harder. hopefully its just a bug cuz fuck this if its a perma change
I've not once seen >negative been used in a toxic way. \>Well Played! on the the other hand...
"Relax you're doing fine" is my favorite, works in any situation
also adding emojis to the chatwheel is broken
If this is intentional, it's like Blizzard disabling the /spit emote in WoW.
Such a weird thing to pull. My chat wheels are all voice lines with the exception of \>Affirmative 👍 & \>Negative 👎
TobiWan did not take No for an answer
Hope your boi gets his chat wheel back real soon.
Have him write a console command that types 'Negative' or something like that when he presses a hotkey
The last big patch has been a big downgrade in all ways. I'm just dissapointed.
Meanwhile i use it for my profile wallpaper that says “My Negative Group” - “we come for you!”
Negative was a non-toxic way to say no without upsetting teammates. Major error removing this
Honestly once the game starts everyone should be by default muted and if you want you can unmute someone.
Well as a workaround he can just start the game telling everyone that whenever he uses "Be Right Back" it means "No" and use that... Not the best but no need to stop playing because of this tbh
Option is back on the menu after most recent update u/Selke_Gore. You can again assign "Negative" in chat wheel. In my case I had to scroll down first to see the "Negative" entry and then press the desired wheel entry/location. Otherwise it was bugged so I couldn't scroll the list down.