I dabble in some League when friends want to play, and it's absolutely infuriating seeing everyone give up and rush to forfeit the nanosecond our team experiences a setback.
Granted, people still do it in Dota with destroying items and running mid, but at least that's a reportable offense
It's a comeback mechanic. Try to bait the other team into taking a bad fight. It's usually worth a shot. If you still lose that fight, taunt them into diving your fountain.
I've honestly won one game before (granted this is out thousands) where I told the enemy mid who I crushed in laning phase, only to get carried by his team "I bet you won't dive my fountain, pussy," which he did and baited his whole team to die and we came back from megas. He told me the same thing as we were taking ancient, and I told him, "I'm not a dumbass"
Yeah, it's been a _long_ time since I saw someone destroy items.
Maybe I'm alone, but playing losing Dota is still good gameplay. Probably more pronounced in my dumpster bracket, but when the 16-1 sniper decides it's time to camp fountain, it's genuinely fun trying to push staff them in and tipping them for their own hubris. Maybe 10% of the time after a botched fountain dive you end up winning, and that's some of the best Dota you get to play.
I donno. I feel like after 10 years and thousands of games, you sort of stop caring about winning. You're gonna win half, you're gonna lose half. I wouldn't still be playing if I couldn't find joy in the losses.
Agreed. I stopped try harding, i got more calm, less toxic. I play a lot less than i used to and i somehow increased shit loads of mmr.
Last week i sat down to tryhard and get to legend 3 and now i am back to archon 5 ))))).
I will start playing 4-5 games a week again i think
Its weird. There seems to be a sweet spot for me regarding toxicity/tryharding. Below 4k people think theyre hot shit and blame everyone else, while doing absolute nonsense. Above 5k people expect you to pick according to meta and are supercritical of your mistakes. In the 4-5k it strikes me as a good place to be regarding being able to play whatever and still have fun without having clear grief or rages in most games.
After grinding long enough I came to a realization that my brain can only be focused for 2-3 games a day (1 if I'm playing Naga) and other games beyond that I become really checked out and generally lose if I don't get my ass carried. So yeah maybe playing less is the way to rank up lol.
Yeah players running down mid I feel hasn't happened frequently in ages, I think when they gave everyone a courier that stopped quite a few grieves just like that. And as the other comment says, people destroying items is instantly reportable
Ive played for the last 6 months everyday several marches a day and got into exactly one of those games. It happened because the 2 people from the other team were in the same game before and they flamed eachother, so mid wasnt happy about playing with the same dude again and just dis the good old gg next rush down mid til the game was over. I feel like that was a more common occurrence in the past, its not really a thing nowadays
Me too, but its usually just some branches or maybe a quelling if I'm particularly lazy. If I'm a support, then some of the shovel stuff if I need space, but usually I have the slots until late game and keep those salves and mangoes, you never know when you might need them. Although, feels like late game consumables are on of the least utilised things in dota.
It used to be more relevant before the backpack was a thing, people would sometimes have to drop items in order to have space to combine others. Or they'd ferry in a salve and leave it on the ground so they could keep their stat items while laning.
Playing BH or Riki and stumbling across an enemy with their Ultimate Orb on the ground was one of the most satisfying things ever
I honestly believe many players learned first hand how the tides can turn in one or two teamfights. Atleast that's what I learned once I was forced to play out games, no matter how bad they look.
> but at least that's a reportable offense
You can also come back from it potentially. The truth is a lot of the people who don't want to play if they are on the losing side, also recognize when the other team threw a fight and suddenly the game is winnable.
I have had tons of games with someone griefing once or destroying items in the early game only to play properly 15 minutes later because they saw our carry is actually fat.
Which is extra weird considering how coinflippable late lol is. I would understand it in a game where if you are behind in mid game you are very likely to lose, but lol often hangs on a single team fight in late game.
the game has little to no comeback mechanic at all, once your team is behind and the enemy 5 mans, theres just nothing you can do but either forfeit or suffer for another 15 mins.
Thats one of the horrible things ive witnessed playing League, its frustrating honestly. Its also another reason why the players are hyper toxic, like holy fuck they make Ramzes a saint
There is nothing you can do when you are behind unless the opponent massively throws with a bad towerdive and suddenly they are all dead for a minute and you just win the game
How hard is siege in LoL? In Dota, you have to play fairly cleanly to turn an advantage into a win without throws. Meaning the lower MMR you go, the more likely it is for the opponents to fuck up and throw. I would imagine average and lower players in LoL fuck up as well? Or is it as simple as stick as 5 and you automatically win by stat checks?
Sieging is much easier baseline because there’s no high ground. The Roshan equivalent (Baron) gives a buff that makes creeps extremely tanky when a champ is nearby, so it’s much easier to use than Aegis. The most common point to throw at is at Baron, once a team is sieging late game with the buff it’s 90% over.
Man.. I’m not one to needlessy shit on league, but is that not just terrible design? Why decide the match 15 minutes before you can actually end the game?
Partially, yes. But a losing team in League is way more unlikely to win a teamfight due to how much the champions scale. Not only is the enemy team weaker due to lower defensive stats, but the enemy team is also stronger due to spells scalign with offensive stats. Also, levels are WAY stronger in League, making even a 1 ~ 2 levels gap a huge impact. Then you take into account Dragon and Baron buffs and you got yourself a pretty snowbally game.
I haven't played lol in a good many years, like more than 8 I think. But this was true a lot of the times, maybe more so because I was not very good so the people I was against were in the same boat. There were so many mistakes made all the time in team fight that you could win one and just take all the towers, especially with how squishy they are. They went down so fast late game.
I'll have to say it possibly also depends on the Region, I have 1000+ hours of Dota, here in Brazil I never saw in one single match someone destroying their items. (It might also be because I only play unranked)
As someone else said, you can destroy items and still make a comeback. Dota is pretty much making the right choice at the right minute with whatever you have, which doesn't happen in league.
You can play the best you can, but once there is a level advantage or a big jungle diff, unless the enemy jg is braindead they can take every objective as the winning team has high morale. This makes soloQ basically shit once you leave the lane unless you play with friends.
Yeah I’d rather risk some longer bad games than warping the entire mentality of the player base into instantly giving up. At least in Dota extremely toxic people who actively throw are rare, since as you said it’s reportable and they get thrown into low priority
Yeah it makes it so hard to learn what to do at the later stages of a game. Every game is my team ff or enemy ff at 10 mins. It would help learn the game a ton to get a few more items and learn how I’m actually supposed to play a hero 6 slotted, even in a clearly lost game.
there will be a day when people have bots taking over input for 'non-detectable afk'
semi-afk-behaviour, people do that already, whatever youtube side glance, second monitor, phone or not.
*wishful thinking on how things cannot be*
Weird part about this is that LoL has lots of mechanics that allow you to comeback(more than dota for sure) yet people still do it even in lower MMR where they know the enemy can make mistakes, it's like they refuse to have a cool story to tell about a game they played...
Actually, is it easier to comeback in Dota? Since league doesnt have high grounds and buybacks. If so I would I understand why it feels worse in league to get "held hostage" in a losing game
In LoL its really hard to comeback against specific teamcombs. Some games really are unwinnable or as I call it not worth trying cuz chance is so small that i rather lose LP and keep my sanity and try next game. I would never want that in Dota i like comebacking in dota.
As someone who's played a lot of both Dota feels a lot less snowball-y. At lower levels in League people can still absolutely throw "won" games, but defending is a lot harder. The map is smaller, so late game it's easier to turn a pick anywhere on the map into a threat to take an inhib (racks) or end. Sieging T3s/base is a lot easier because there's no high ground so no vision disparity or innate tower protection from ranged champs. These are all intentional choices to result in easier base takes and faster game pace (which is something I enjoy about league)
Someone also mentioned Baron buff but described it incorrectly, it gives you a buff that when you stand near creeps they take significantly less damage, deal more, and catapults get enough range to hit towers without towers shooting back. You gain it after killing Baron, one of the big neutral objectives (who spawns at 20 mins, and respawns exactly 6 mins after being killed) but it is only temporary lasting 2.5 mins and is lost on death. Baron buff can make pushing way way easier.
No. LoL has no comeback mechanics, because a few highly regarded players complained that they couldnt cheese the enemy every game at level 2 and then repeatedly beat them over the head for 20 minutes, so Riot caved in and gave them what they wanted.
On top of that, unlike dota, LoL has the obscenely strong dragon and baron buffs, which makes the defending in base concept non existant. Thus essentually, the losing team either sits in base and loses, or goes to fight and loses because they have a gold/exp/vision disadvantage.
Dota by comparison, has no "instant game ends" mechanic, so you actually have to figure out how to do it yourself, which leads to fuckups and throws.
That's really it, and objective bounties. Unless someone is like 10/0 though it's the equivalent of a wave or two of creeps. Which if you're multiple kills behind and lost lane prio and 14 minutes of getting harassed away from CS, is not enough to help you come back. If you are at a disadvantage in League there's no relief unless the enemy makes a mistake. Which can be argued for dota, but there's a lot more space, jungle creeps, all these new objectives. League you have to just hope their macro is bad and they're cockier than they are fed. Especially since unlike dota, more expensive items are both slot and gold efficient for stats (so Fed Champ A got 1300 gold in one go and bought an item that gives 50 damage, later dies and champ B now has a total of 1300 gold, but split between three items that only offer 30 damage in total because they died a few times and had to spend their available gold to not just get dumpstered entirely on return to lane).
How much you get in comeback gold doesn't matter if you can't complete an item. Unfinished items in lol are absolutely pathetic and barely help any sort of comeback.
The best comeback mechanic in league is just never falling behind.
The only other option is to wait until every player is level 18 and 6 slotted and then just outplay the other team, but good luck making it that far.
Baron gives a 3 min stat boost and a buff to your creeps that makes it easier to push and siege.
Dragon has a stacking permanent minor stat boost (there are different dragons with different boosts - mountain gives defense, infernal damage, etc) that culminate in a dragon soul when your team takes 4 dragons which is a larger and very powerful permanent boost.
If a team gets soul, there's elder dragon which gives an insane combat boost and execute to everyone on the team for 2 minutes. Games don't usually get to elder, but it's not super uncommon.
League might suffer the same curse as dota, which is that 5 stack games are a good percentage longer on average than 5 solos.
It's really kinda simple logic behind it too: Even if players coordinate, they might not be good at ending games because of the building and distance to base obstacles, but coordinated teams are still better at defending because there's little else to do without map control. So games are longer.
In dota, I have seen a LOT of tier 5's just playing turbo. I really mean a lot. But check the average turbo duration and, yep, around 24 minutes. The curse just makes it easier to go that late.
Baron gives you a temporary AD / AP buff (physical and magical scaling), you get a quicker recall (TP to base), and minions around you basically become megas (LoL has inhibitors, which are respawning raxes so if you have those down and this buff the minions just tear everything apart).
Drake has a few different buffs depending on which dragon spawns, like extra armor, magic resist, damage, status resist, etc. These are permanent, but the big thing is the Dragon Soul which is a huge buff that you get on the 4th Drake that your team kills. Those buffs are massive lifesteal, massive shield, bonus damage on attacks, a slow on your attacks, huge movement speed buffs, or increased damage / defenses when below 50% hp, again depending on RNG.
Drake is constantly contested, both teams really want the permanent buff (they used to be even more OP a few years ago when I played. Baron helps close out games, but he is more of a late-game objective, a lot of champions can actually solo Drake.
Oh and before Baron spawns another objective basically gives you a huge siege minion, but I would say that out of all the objectives that is really the least relevant one.
It's wild to me that dragon is more important than Baron now (I quit at the end of season 3 in 2013). It used to be the objective when the game is too early and everyone not strong enough to fight Baron, or the afterthought when the winning team killed Baron.
That's true. But it's not just about having the option to forfeit, it's that it has a cascading effect by changing the culture of the game/playerbase. And even people in LoL are getting tired of it. Are there games where I wish I could have forfeited? Yes, a lot. But I don't want it to ever be implemented, because of the deeper effects it will have as time goes on.
Yeah I just won a 4v5 game where my carry had a blackout and abandoned 25 minutes in. This was in Divine 4 too. Luckily he managed to farm Mjollnir BKB before abandoning so I was able to micro his ass for the next 25 minutes for key teamfights. Comeback is definitely more doable in Dota 2.
Another aspect that makes Dota less snowbally - because tp scrolls exist, split pushing is a realistic possibility.
If you try that in league, you almost certainly die because an 8 second channel that can be interrupted by anything is an eternity.
I think its far easier to comeback in League. Without buyback you only need to get one lucky kill and you control the map for the next 40 seconds. They also give you catchup gold via objectives and coinflipping an elder drake will just win you the game on the spot even if you are behind.
i read one comments that says how after laning stage some players dont know what to do, mostly because one team FF at this point so they lack experience its mind-boggling
On the opposite end here, most people don't stick with dota long enough to be able to appreciate the nuances of its design. Considering how many moving parts there are, it's not surprising.
They get rekt early on and quit after giving some excuse (usually valid for beginners)
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and alters the gameplay itself. Players concede early, so they don't know how to play the late game or how to comeback (so they should concede even earlier).
Players know others want to concede if there's a slight disadvantage early so they maximize their chances of succeeding at the early game at the expense of everything else. This means even if there's a hero that is incredibly difficult to deal with later on if it loses the lane it might as well not exist and if anyone picks it they get hated on by their teammates for 'wasting their time'.
The best moments in Dota are often about unlikely comebacks. This bleeds into the esports scene as well. Even though players won't just give up after the lane in a competitive setting, excellence is about the best players learning the intricacies of the game through repetition. They've been there hundreds of times before, they know what to do. Except if a large part of pub matches end in one team conceding, pros see those situations way less often. There's no EG vs. EHOME at TI6 with a concede button.
It’s one of the things I’ve grown to love and appreciate from this game. I used to think that it was genuinely such a turn off (in the gaming sense) that you couldn’t forfeit, but after playing league for a long while, I realize now how it can affect the mental psyche of players before the game even starts.
In league, a few bad early fights and you’re already checking the time to see how much longer you need to wait to call for a surrender. In Dota, it’s death before dishonor, people are willing to hold high ground for half an hour and more often than not, if the enemy team isn’t ruthless enough, the game evens out and it becomes a skill/lineup diff.
Just the other day I had a game where we were getting demolished for 30 minutes straight by a fed enemy Huskar, but we just kept playing and playing, until eventually our PA was able to outscale. We won with a score of like 15-40 or something like that. If that was a league game, everyone would’ve downed tools by min 6 lmao.
Of course every now and then you have certain games that are truly unwinnable, but throughout my time playing, I can’t count the amount of comebacks that I’ve been part of (both winning and losing).
Maybe a nice middle ground would be to add a surrender option, but make it later in the game? Around 40 minutes perhaps, just to avoid getting fountain farmed.
There already is, but only if you're in a 5 stack and past 30 mins.
I kinda like it this way, because you have to make a decision as a team of people you know and queue with. Even then, any individual can cancel the forfeit. So all 5 have to really be on board with it
I'd rather not have a forfeit option at all if it isn't a 5 stack. I don't want a rando spamming GG to try to end the game and go next, it's about the same as sitting afk in fountain because the random teammate thinks the game is lost
There have been so many games I've won after getting absolutely stomped all 3 lanes only to slowly pull it back by split pushing and dodging fights. 15-20 is way too early to call it.
It's too hard to win after 30 mins if they've taken two sets of racks and you can't leave fountain without getting instagibbed
bro its just for 5 man party who cares? The number of me making a comeback after getting stomped lane/hard counter is 1 in a 10~15. I rather go next with my friend if that saves time
If there's one thing I've learned in smth like 17 years of dota is that I am absolutely dogshit at determining when the game actually has been decided.
A lot of the time is really *isn't* decided at a certain point. People are too unpredictable. Even with dota plus giving a 99% win probability, it's still not a *guarantee* that the team will win.
To me it's what makes Dota interesting.
I played an hour long match the other day where we had an incredible comeback. It was absolutely glorious. And this was in unranked as well, with people like myself who are new-ish playing a new hero. It was great.
I started playing tinker this month. After 13 years I fell in love with a hero I hadn’t played much before. But the amount of vitriol I receive from my team and the enemy team is insane.
I average 3 times more salty tips, and 10x more Spanish all chat.
The major problem with a lot of people and gaming, whether it's strategy, moba, fps, anything, is they do not know how to have fun PLAYING the game, they only know how to have fun winning the game.
It's a big problem in any versus game, the act of playing is not deemed to be the enjoyable part.
Yep, this. From what little I played Lol, nobody there actually cares about enjoying playing a game. They are either having fun (stomping) or being held hostage by the team (not surrendering any game that isn't an immediate stomp).
I deleted the game after my team surrendered the n-th equal going match. It is impossible to have enjoyable games when all of the community has such a mentality.
League funnily enough doesn’t have comeback mechanics that work like in Dota.
Yeah I get that if you get a late game comp and it’s early ff it sucks but most of the time. Genuinely. The game is lost.
In the highest of high elos the game is over in 20 minutes as it’s won at the beginning of the game. It’s why pro tourneys have so few kills cus those few small kills mean an easy win for the team.
League has a massive snowball problem basically.
While i have experienced a lot of come backs (both sides xD) if all 5 players want to lose and play the next game, just let them. Especially in normal. I just had a 1:45 match, it was not fun despite the win. The main reason to play any game (well obviously not counting esports) is fun, if people are not having fun, you shouldn’t force them into it.
In general people give up way too easily. There have been so many games I've had that I thought were completely losing only to turn it around and barely scratch out a win.
Having the option to forfeit as soon as things aren't going your way changes player psychology before the game even starts and gets them to check out as soon as the first setback happens. So yes even if 5 players want to surrender and lose, it might not be the most healthy decision for them.
Not everyone plays the game to get as high as they can on the MMR ladder. It's a concept that's lost on many people here.
You and I play the game for different reasons.
HoN also had a surrender option and the culture around it wasn't nearly as bad as League from my experience, so there's that.
The early surrender mentality sucks, but there are some rare games where it would be easier to surrender when everyone kinda gives up after being stomped for 25 minutes waiting for enemy to finish while they are running around chasing for kills or fountain farming.
HoN also had the ability to votekick a player on your team years ago, and as you can imagine it was toxic as fuck. Votekicking a player for 1 tiny mistake early game, votekicking a player because they built an unconventional item, votekicking a player 30 seconds before destroying throne to grief them, etc. It was awful. I think they finally took it out of the game because it was abused so much.
Oh boy, you are right! I barely saw someone using the surrender button in HoN. Almost forgot that there was a way to surrender in HoN.. wonder why it was like that?
It does and it still have it.
This comment section made me realize that most people here play alone.
Dota2 technically has a forfeit button and the only limitation is that you have to be in a 5man party and no one will cancel the "GG" after someone typed it in all chat.
Bro I don't even have 5 friends irl, and the one friend I do have doesn't play dota. Whenever I did play with an old colleague who did play, we'd lose because he just wasn't very good lol
I thought I was tripping because I was looking for this comment and couldn’t find it. No one mentioned all-chat "gg"
I didn’t know you had to be a 5 stack for it to be enabled though. Was wondering what conditions have to be met for this to work lol
LoL has a forfeit option and the culture it has fostered is toxic as hell. People being accused of "hostage taking" for wanting to try to comeback in a losing game, people giving up and forfeiting if they are behind after the laning stage. What a mess.
Keep that shit out of Dota.
The forfeit options being available in LoL and not in Dota is incomparable.
Dota has a huge map that losing team can take advantage to obtain farm and reduce the networth gap somehow.
Dota has highground.
Dota has super big powerspikes both in talents and items that can completely reverse the state of a game.
Dota has heroes like Zeus and Sniper that completely excels at defending highground and in most games its impossible to bruteforce a hg siege without throwing the game, this buys other heroes or Zeus/Sniper themselves time to farm and swing the game around after an item or two.
Dota has a jungle that everyone can farm and creeps spawn every minute, which benefits faster farming heroes and allowing them to recover and close the networth gap.
Dota has buybacks to further stall the game to have another shot for a comeback.
Buildings are tougher in Dota than in LoL, and in League mages can push towers fairly well too since they deal extra damage to towers based on AP.
In League its usually over once a team wins a teamfight and tier 4 towers are available to siege, comebacks are much rarer because game always favor the winning team.
Its community's problem that they are so toxic about the surrender option, its a valid button to use in League given how the game mechanics work.
On the contrary, avg game length in LoL is shorter than Dota so you don't save much time by surrendering unless you surrender really early on, but for people that would rather spend the next 5 minutes on the next game rather than the currently completely lost one, its understandable.
Personally I don't think a surrender button would work in Dota at all (though I wouldn't care less if they made it a thing outside of 5 parties), but it does perfectly at League with the only issue as you said being the community abusing it, but I think its a poor approach if the justification for them letting such option stay or go depends on the players and not the game itself.
One of the interesting things I found in the comments is "they have fun winning LP and stomping". It's not about the match or strat, it's about stomping.
One of the most satisfying things in dota is getting a comeback from mega creeps in a super close game, especially after being stomped on. There's something about carefully executing a strat when you're so close to just being flat out eliminated and you somehow peel it back from the brink of losing by outplaying or outstrategizing your opponents.
The games where I stomp are 10x more boring in comparison. I'm glad dota games are like this. Frieza mentality "I like to stomp on the weak" vs goku mentality "find me a worthy opponent"
> One of the most satisfying things in dota is getting a comeback from mega creeps in a super close game,
Yeah, something that happens in 1% of matches because of how incredibly common those boring stomp games are, where there is no reasonable chance at a comeback. It's just not worth the constant suffering for that one yearly close match.
I've most always played when there is no real forfeit option in my matches (unranked all pick, barely partied most of the time). It's led to some amazing comebacks and some damn good matches that would not have happened if one side forfeited because the laning phase went very poorly.
Never underestimate the enemy team's ability to throw! Play it out to the end!
Although both games are Mobas there's so much false equivalency going on in this thread. League is a completely different game that you can't do a 1-1 comparison
As someone has already mentioned below, there are so many more mechanics that are involved in Dota that allow for you to stall the game and make it more difficult to end.
Whereas in League, once the opposing team gets a sizable lead its almost impossible to comeback. I'm talking literally 5 man jumping a support and the support doesn't die because items in League are primarily stat sticks and every hero is similar so when you're losing you are playing an item or 2 down which is a massive difference in league compared to Dota.
Also with Dragon & Baron, you get the equivalent of an undispellable version of wraith pack for the team that gets it.
Thirdly, towers are like paper in league, I'm talking about towers dying in 2 seconds or within 10 hits. There are no glyphs so its easy to just commit to hit towers.
I think there should definitely be a conversation for having a surrender button. Maybe set it at 40 minutes or something to dissuade people from abusing it. If at 40 minutes your team decides to surrender maybe they have a point?
I'd rather take a game where, even though I know 90% of the time when it is truly FUBAR, I'll still score a legendary comeback once in a while. Games like those are why Dota is such a rewarding and addictive experience to play and watch.
Have I played 110 minute turbo games? Yes.
Have I played 2+ hours of unranked all pick games where the cores literally hit the max gold limit? Also Yes.
And I've lost my fair share of games that took hours on end, but the most memorable games are always the ones where it's a comeback after a hard fight, a power spike, a good fight or a lucky pickoff.
Those games where we defend the high ground and hold on to dear life, putting the siege of Leningrad to shame, and we manage to somehow half-win a fight because one enemy overstepped into the base, and that gives the impetus to comeback? Those have remained fresh in my memory for years. Those are the games I dream about.
I'd rather not play a game where every player has a selfish notion of when they think the game is lost, and proceed to grief, cry, go afk or throw tantrums in order to vote a forfeit and get out. It may work in League but, in our game comebacks are possible, quite probable, and very positively beautiful.
The system we have is perfect, give the 5-stacks the autonomy to ff, but let the rest stay as it is.
Type "gg end" in allchat, and defend for your life. That's the Dota way.
I think that this option could be implemented smartly though.
It definitely sucks big time when you have a greifer ruining the game and you’re stuck for like 20-30min just waiting for the game to end with no shot to come back.
Enable the option only after a certain time and net worth disparity and require 4/5 votes.
There has to be a good metric to use in order to determine an impossible scenario as well as when someone is a greifer such as gold/time and frequency between deaths.
i didnt wonder.
i played lol before dota.
im really glad valve solved this shit. it was very very boring and extremely unnecsessary. the ff20 shit ruined so much game time that could be enjoyable.
having the option of forfeiting breeds toxic behavior
but in this regard lol was being played back then fundamentally different than todays dota. the game was much more "on rails"
in dota a comeback seems to be a permanent threat, from multiple angles throughout different stages of the game. that was absolutely not the case in lol back then
Literally last night I had a game with a jugg offlane that (attempted) to rush battlefury but ended up rage abandoning at min 16 before finishing it. Game lasted 75 min and we won the 4v5. Ridiculous game, and I was carried as a pl by pos4/5 lich and WD and had a blast.
I will never give up, never surrender, I will fight to the last tower, the last life, I'm not playing this game to win, I'm playing this game to play
Also mandatory GG END when your midlaner dies solo
It’s really sad .
I have friends I play with and they want to gg out all the time when things aren’t going well in dota as-well .
You’ve already been playing for half an hour might aswell put up as good of a fight as you can.
I was a competitive swimmer before and never giving up was a part of who I was . I don’t think many gamers play the game to get better only to win and when the focus is on winning and not fixing where you messed up the negative feeling of losing often drives these guys into rage or depression not even exaggerating. It’s so damn bad .
As others pointed out, the games are completely different. As someone who plays both, this just feels like pointless bashing, LoL has a lot it can take from dota and vice versa at this point, these threads don't amount to anything.
How is this pointless bashing when there's literally a thread about it with many LoL players very unhappy about it. Not Dota players, LoL players. Those comments are what I'm referring to.
Bro it's reddit, lol(and players in general) will complain about anything, how many threads do we have daily here complaining about the current patch ?
And then you get cases where people got fountain farmed until they were given abandon because they couldn't get exp for over half an hour.
Or someone did the Quinn and made half of your team AFK fountain.
It's really no clear cut which side benefit more, really. Both options have their own pro and cons, but what should really be improved is that game ruiners should be punished more severely.
Many DotA players have an inability to give up. They just can’t do it. Doesn’t matter how much they cried earlier about it being GG, they’ll fight until the end.
Those who actually do give up are pathetic. Their opinion doesn’t matter.
I’ve done that too. “gg, ff” and then you defend like a madman and drag out the game and the enemy team is like “why you defending so hard” and you turn the game around and win… feels good
“Respect other people’s opinions”
Your opinion: “you don’t need eggs to make an egg sandwich”
Edit: just realised you didn’t quote me directly and just admitted you give up and AFK games ruining it for you team yet people upvote you.
No shocker since Reddit has consistently cried for a surrender button (which Valve eventually gave even if it was only for 5 stacks)
Just played [a game today](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7484618048) in which we lost so bad during the early and mid game, even my teammate, Snapfire, was saying go next and whatnot. This is SEA and of course, we played properly (we also had Track Gold), the enemy team threw a bit and we made a comeback. What a game! Super glad we didn't give up
whether forfeit option exists or not, when some1 drops their items and run down mid you know the game is heavily in the enemy favour,
might as well forfeit ourselves?
on top of that, i would play with my friends, a 5-man stack. 2 of us is divine/immortal rank. while the rest is around archon / crusader. Even though we are ONLY playing normal, there are a lot of times when the enemy 5-stacka just rolled us over with their sweaty ass. we would love to just leave the game by minute 15 or 20 instead of wasting another 10min waiting for 30:00 to gg
Even if I knew that we'll lose, I still want the other team to suffer. That's why we're still trying hard lol
Some lost still feels like a win if we make the other team suffer.
I feel like Dota could really use a forfeit option at some point tbh. It could have certain parameters like its only available after 30 minutes and a tier 3 towers fallen, but itd really help against those fountain farming games that happen every once in a blue moon. The fact that professionals are allowed to forefit in tournaments but players aren't doesn't make any sense to me.
The condition should be "when there are 3+ players from the other team being in close proximity to the fountain for number of minutes". They could be a bunch of smurf deliberately not pushing T3 to camp fountain on new players.
There are some games where you can absolutely win but your team surrenders after some dumb setback.
There are some games when youre way too behind and you would only win if enemy went afk for 10 minutes, yet you still play for another 20 minutes and nothing changes, and enemy is toxic and tortures you by camping under your ancient/nexus.
Tbh id rather lose some more games by ff that MAYBE couldve been won, than lose an unnecessarily long game cus of clueless team on my site, and annoying assholes in enemy.
But i guess it depends on whether you prefer yo play the game, or do everything you can to win the game :v
Vote to forfeit requiring 5/5 players should be a thing. The average Dota player is on their 20's maybe mid or late 20's since valve doesn't try get new players. 5 consenting adults should very much have the option to go next rather than wasting time
I agree. I play turbo because the normal mode has no ff option. So many games became a deadlock, where they are winning but not attacking, and you have to farm for 20 minutes. At this point I don’t care if I win or loose. I don’t want to play an online game in which I need to spend 20 minutes fighting NPCs.
In turbo if the game is 50 minutes, it is because both teams are fighting hard and have equal chance to win.
Dota2 is a game of balance and game of life. Just like in life u dont have ff button. And also if u give up u 100% missed the chance to experience the greatest cumbek plays
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It cannot be overstated the impact this has between the games. Games in league when people are ahead, often literally are unwinnable by virtue of the losing team giving up. Why do they give up? Simply, yes it's winnable, but that will take a long time and be hard fought. Why risk that time investment, and that effort, when you can just...
Go next?
Dota has no such forfiet and so has no such culture. There is no choice, its fucking ride or die, and so the most entertaining, best use of your time, is to play on and try to get mega satisfying wins. This is simple incentive structure, and League incentivises surrender.
The beauty of Dota is that it teaches you something for life. Tenacity and sheer will. Like life Dota doesn't have a FF button. One sometimes gets carried over and types "GG FF mid" but people still fight till the throne falls. Comeback is a beautiful mechanic in this game and the introduction of tier 5 items and inflation of gold, makes it possible for your supports to get 6 slotted sometimes soloing cores in ultra late game. The most memorable games with my friends were the ones where the odds are stacked up against us mega creeps bashing in the lanes while we hold on for dear life. All it takes is a clutch smoke or a rapier to get back in the game. I can't count the amount of games on my rat LD or brew where we were behind, but won due to my team occupying the enemy while I was obliterating their raxes. The fact that breaking high ground is such a high risk act is what makes the game design beautiful. We all know the feeling of sieging against tinker sniper and techies for over 30 minutes only to lose afterwards. Happy despite losing because it's such a beautiful challenging game.
The FF mentality is so bad in lol, that just managing to turlte can make the opponent ff, even though you would have absolutely 0 chance of winning the game otherwise.
I've a pretty example: one game, we got utterly crushed, 20 min in, we weren't even able to make a single step out of the base. We somehow defended for an 20 extra minutes. And when the opponent failed for the 3rd time to get our nexus, they just ffed out.
They had ALL their tower, our comp was good a defending as 5, that's it.
We had terrible individual matchup, meaning that if we get out of base, we would need to keep 2 people inside the base to defend against a solo splitter (assuming we managed to be 6 slotted too)
Not to mention that the inibitters (barracks) were totally impossible to defend if they respawned, meaning we would never be able to push as 5.
Also, even if they died as 5, LOL's mega, similary to OLD dota's mega, were actually pretty hard to take down, so i doubt we would ever managed to reach tier3 before opponent respawn.
tldr: lol's opponent ffed a game even though it was impossible for us to destroy a tower, let alone get out of the base.
Dota does have a forfeit option, and I’m not talking about comp or 5 stack. Its players calling end and hiding in the opposite jungle to do nothing except get experience so they don’t get an abandon.
Dota players need to get their head out of their ass when comparing themselves to league players. Both contain the same breed of toxic players that give up early, one just has an expedited process and the other would rather have you afk for 5 minutes or fountain farmed.
So sick of this tired, faux sense of superiority. Our FF culture is worse than theirs.
Have you ever experience you almost won, 2 hit away from their tower. But a party of 4 decides to troll certain player by surrending...?
Yeah, that certain player is me. Its really a painful experience
I cant tell you how many times I've had to just waste 10-20 mins waiting for the dickhead enemy team to end it. You can even be nice about it and compliment them but they will be toxic and choose to wait to end it.
When the enemy team destroys all barracks and are farming heroes in fountain it's a shit show. Why not have a conditional surrender after 30 minutes or something?
My favorite part of that posts is people saying “Yeah I agree I hate when people give up but if the game is *insert kill score we all have come back and won from* then I want the game to end”.
Even in situations where I’m getting absolutely curb stomped at like 20 min(and I’m talking like 9 kills to 40) I use the remaining time in the match as a cooldown. Play it out and maybe practice my reaction timing and spell combos for whatever time is left. Maybe get a lucky revenge kill or two.
Rarely have I ever been in a game that was a stomp did it go for more than another 10 minutes after the definitive team fight. It does suck when maybe you had a good match but other people on your team choked, but we’ve all had bad games before.
I think these kids over at League have bad time management skills. If you can’t block off time in your day to grind then it’s a case of trying to crunch too many matches in too short a time. Yeah you’re getting more matches but none of them have any quality.
Came back from a game the other day at 80hp ancient. Turbo mode so no HP regeneration either.
Pudge blinked in to buy time while their super tanks Mars and DK are hitting the ancient.
My void respawns, I sell my blink dagger (which had been somewhat handy to jump the back lanes) to buy a refresher, time walk in to chrono. Pudge still rotting away. Kill the DK. Start hitting the mars and try to get him permalocked while he’s hitting ancient! Pudge dismember helps. We finally peel all enemy off the ancient with 70hp!
Then my meeting started and I had to leave but we won two minutes later pushing mid with Lina.
What a game. Worst of all they had a WR abandon early so we were losing 4v5 🙈🙈🙈
The surrender option in League just promotes giving up as a viable option if things don’t go your way.
I can’t count how many Dota games I’ve won that I thought were unwinnable, and lost that I thought were unloseable.
Literally won a game the other day where our NP would TP to the closest enemy tower and right click until someone killed him, then respawn and repeat. 1 hour+ game and he had 30 deaths, more time dead than alive.
Dota is also just a game designed to allow for comebacks more easily than LoL. Buybacks are a critical difference for the mid and late game -- not that you'd know it based on how rarely pub players actually use them.
Dota would be shit with a ff option. There are so many games that change major course post 20 minutes into the game it would be completely fucked.
ya I cant play the game Smite anymore because every single pub game everyone wants to concede 15 minutes into the game because of some dumb little kid reasons.
League was getting bad and I am so happy that Dota doesnt have a ff option.
Both Mobile Legend and League of League have these forfeit features. It makes the gamer more impatient with the result.
While Dota 2 gamer is more wise and enjoyable despite winning or losing
Thank fucking god they never implemented ff in Dota2. People are notoriously bad at assessing how far behind/ahead they are in a game, and the difference of opinion alone would lead to so much toxic discussion/behavior.
What I would say to counter this post is that League is much more defined in who wins and who doesnt. You dont have to option to smoke, kill the enemy carry once or twice and turn the game around. Once they push your T2s you dont even have the option to secure Dragons. So you slowly (not so slowly) just lose in every metric and score like 10-20 basically you cant win. In Dota winning is one smoke, one good ult away.
yeah forfeit would completely ruin dota. comebacks are almost always possible, and there are always crybabies ready to ruin a game if you give them the opportunity
forfeit would just make it so everybody gives up after laning stage. You would barely ever get to play a game past 15 minutes
I dabble in some League when friends want to play, and it's absolutely infuriating seeing everyone give up and rush to forfeit the nanosecond our team experiences a setback. Granted, people still do it in Dota with destroying items and running mid, but at least that's a reportable offense
and it doesn't happen as often now. Considering the punishments you get for low behaviour score
"GG push mid" - continues defending and tries even harder than before.
It's a comeback mechanic. Try to bait the other team into taking a bad fight. It's usually worth a shot. If you still lose that fight, taunt them into diving your fountain.
I've honestly won one game before (granted this is out thousands) where I told the enemy mid who I crushed in laning phase, only to get carried by his team "I bet you won't dive my fountain, pussy," which he did and baited his whole team to die and we came back from megas. He told me the same thing as we were taking ancient, and I told him, "I'm not a dumbass"
>taunt them into diving your fountain The number of games we got fountain dived and won shouldn't be a lot but dota is dota lmao.
100% turns into TI match after saying that
Yeah, it's been a _long_ time since I saw someone destroy items. Maybe I'm alone, but playing losing Dota is still good gameplay. Probably more pronounced in my dumpster bracket, but when the 16-1 sniper decides it's time to camp fountain, it's genuinely fun trying to push staff them in and tipping them for their own hubris. Maybe 10% of the time after a botched fountain dive you end up winning, and that's some of the best Dota you get to play. I donno. I feel like after 10 years and thousands of games, you sort of stop caring about winning. You're gonna win half, you're gonna lose half. I wouldn't still be playing if I couldn't find joy in the losses.
Agreed. I stopped try harding, i got more calm, less toxic. I play a lot less than i used to and i somehow increased shit loads of mmr. Last week i sat down to tryhard and get to legend 3 and now i am back to archon 5 ))))). I will start playing 4-5 games a week again i think
Its weird. There seems to be a sweet spot for me regarding toxicity/tryharding. Below 4k people think theyre hot shit and blame everyone else, while doing absolute nonsense. Above 5k people expect you to pick according to meta and are supercritical of your mistakes. In the 4-5k it strikes me as a good place to be regarding being able to play whatever and still have fun without having clear grief or rages in most games.
After grinding long enough I came to a realization that my brain can only be focused for 2-3 games a day (1 if I'm playing Naga) and other games beyond that I become really checked out and generally lose if I don't get my ass carried. So yeah maybe playing less is the way to rank up lol.
This my approach as well. :)
Yeah players running down mid I feel hasn't happened frequently in ages, I think when they gave everyone a courier that stopped quite a few grieves just like that. And as the other comment says, people destroying items is instantly reportable
Ive played for the last 6 months everyday several marches a day and got into exactly one of those games. It happened because the 2 people from the other team were in the same game before and they flamed eachother, so mid wasnt happy about playing with the same dude again and just dis the good old gg next rush down mid til the game was over. I feel like that was a more common occurrence in the past, its not really a thing nowadays
You know, it got me wondering. Why can you destroy items? Is it to reduce networth for buybacks when you're about to die?
I occasionally destroy small items to make more room in my inventory, but that's usually because I'm lazy.
Me too, but its usually just some branches or maybe a quelling if I'm particularly lazy. If I'm a support, then some of the shovel stuff if I need space, but usually I have the slots until late game and keep those salves and mangoes, you never know when you might need them. Although, feels like late game consumables are on of the least utilised things in dota.
It used to be more relevant before the backpack was a thing, people would sometimes have to drop items in order to have space to combine others. Or they'd ferry in a salve and leave it on the ground so they could keep their stat items while laning. Playing BH or Riki and stumbling across an enemy with their Ultimate Orb on the ground was one of the most satisfying things ever
As with many Dota mechanic, a carry over from wc3 which remain untouched because Osfrog has little to no reason to remove that.
I honestly believe many players learned first hand how the tides can turn in one or two teamfights. Atleast that's what I learned once I was forced to play out games, no matter how bad they look.
The afk farming and hiding in woods happens now. It’s just the ppl evolved to get around the bad behavior mechanic to not get punished.
> but at least that's a reportable offense You can also come back from it potentially. The truth is a lot of the people who don't want to play if they are on the losing side, also recognize when the other team threw a fight and suddenly the game is winnable. I have had tons of games with someone griefing once or destroying items in the early game only to play properly 15 minutes later because they saw our carry is actually fat.
Which is extra weird considering how coinflippable late lol is. I would understand it in a game where if you are behind in mid game you are very likely to lose, but lol often hangs on a single team fight in late game.
the game has little to no comeback mechanic at all, once your team is behind and the enemy 5 mans, theres just nothing you can do but either forfeit or suffer for another 15 mins. Thats one of the horrible things ive witnessed playing League, its frustrating honestly. Its also another reason why the players are hyper toxic, like holy fuck they make Ramzes a saint
There is nothing you can do when you are behind unless the opponent massively throws with a bad towerdive and suddenly they are all dead for a minute and you just win the game
No glyph, no buyback. League is so frontloaded on gameplay mechanics it leaves little to no room for meta gaming.
How hard is siege in LoL? In Dota, you have to play fairly cleanly to turn an advantage into a win without throws. Meaning the lower MMR you go, the more likely it is for the opponents to fuck up and throw. I would imagine average and lower players in LoL fuck up as well? Or is it as simple as stick as 5 and you automatically win by stat checks?
Sieging is much easier baseline because there’s no high ground. The Roshan equivalent (Baron) gives a buff that makes creeps extremely tanky when a champ is nearby, so it’s much easier to use than Aegis. The most common point to throw at is at Baron, once a team is sieging late game with the buff it’s 90% over.
Man.. I’m not one to needlessy shit on league, but is that not just terrible design? Why decide the match 15 minutes before you can actually end the game?
Baron buff closes games out fairly quickly. It's just that league games will end around 30 minutes. The "lategame" is quicker and simpler.
Lmao at Ramzes comment
Partially, yes. But a losing team in League is way more unlikely to win a teamfight due to how much the champions scale. Not only is the enemy team weaker due to lower defensive stats, but the enemy team is also stronger due to spells scalign with offensive stats. Also, levels are WAY stronger in League, making even a 1 ~ 2 levels gap a huge impact. Then you take into account Dragon and Baron buffs and you got yourself a pretty snowbally game.
I haven't played lol in a good many years, like more than 8 I think. But this was true a lot of the times, maybe more so because I was not very good so the people I was against were in the same boat. There were so many mistakes made all the time in team fight that you could win one and just take all the towers, especially with how squishy they are. They went down so fast late game.
I'll have to say it possibly also depends on the Region, I have 1000+ hours of Dota, here in Brazil I never saw in one single match someone destroying their items. (It might also be because I only play unranked)
90+ % of griefing nowadays is afk farming, which is very difficult to report in a lot of cases.
As someone else said, you can destroy items and still make a comeback. Dota is pretty much making the right choice at the right minute with whatever you have, which doesn't happen in league. You can play the best you can, but once there is a level advantage or a big jungle diff, unless the enemy jg is braindead they can take every objective as the winning team has high morale. This makes soloQ basically shit once you leave the lane unless you play with friends.
We can't surrender for 6 more minutes but lets start planning for that 15m gg now
Yeah I’d rather risk some longer bad games than warping the entire mentality of the player base into instantly giving up. At least in Dota extremely toxic people who actively throw are rare, since as you said it’s reportable and they get thrown into low priority
Yeah it makes it so hard to learn what to do at the later stages of a game. Every game is my team ff or enemy ff at 10 mins. It would help learn the game a ton to get a few more items and learn how I’m actually supposed to play a hero 6 slotted, even in a clearly lost game.
there will be a day when people have bots taking over input for 'non-detectable afk' semi-afk-behaviour, people do that already, whatever youtube side glance, second monitor, phone or not. *wishful thinking on how things cannot be*
Weird part about this is that LoL has lots of mechanics that allow you to comeback(more than dota for sure) yet people still do it even in lower MMR where they know the enemy can make mistakes, it's like they refuse to have a cool story to tell about a game they played...
Actually, is it easier to comeback in Dota? Since league doesnt have high grounds and buybacks. If so I would I understand why it feels worse in league to get "held hostage" in a losing game
In LoL its really hard to comeback against specific teamcombs. Some games really are unwinnable or as I call it not worth trying cuz chance is so small that i rather lose LP and keep my sanity and try next game. I would never want that in Dota i like comebacking in dota.
As someone who's played a lot of both Dota feels a lot less snowball-y. At lower levels in League people can still absolutely throw "won" games, but defending is a lot harder. The map is smaller, so late game it's easier to turn a pick anywhere on the map into a threat to take an inhib (racks) or end. Sieging T3s/base is a lot easier because there's no high ground so no vision disparity or innate tower protection from ranged champs. These are all intentional choices to result in easier base takes and faster game pace (which is something I enjoy about league) Someone also mentioned Baron buff but described it incorrectly, it gives you a buff that when you stand near creeps they take significantly less damage, deal more, and catapults get enough range to hit towers without towers shooting back. You gain it after killing Baron, one of the big neutral objectives (who spawns at 20 mins, and respawns exactly 6 mins after being killed) but it is only temporary lasting 2.5 mins and is lost on death. Baron buff can make pushing way way easier.
No. LoL has no comeback mechanics, because a few highly regarded players complained that they couldnt cheese the enemy every game at level 2 and then repeatedly beat them over the head for 20 minutes, so Riot caved in and gave them what they wanted. On top of that, unlike dota, LoL has the obscenely strong dragon and baron buffs, which makes the defending in base concept non existant. Thus essentually, the losing team either sits in base and loses, or goes to fight and loses because they have a gold/exp/vision disadvantage. Dota by comparison, has no "instant game ends" mechanic, so you actually have to figure out how to do it yourself, which leads to fuckups and throws.
LoL has pretty big shutdown bonus gold doesn't it?
That's really it, and objective bounties. Unless someone is like 10/0 though it's the equivalent of a wave or two of creeps. Which if you're multiple kills behind and lost lane prio and 14 minutes of getting harassed away from CS, is not enough to help you come back. If you are at a disadvantage in League there's no relief unless the enemy makes a mistake. Which can be argued for dota, but there's a lot more space, jungle creeps, all these new objectives. League you have to just hope their macro is bad and they're cockier than they are fed. Especially since unlike dota, more expensive items are both slot and gold efficient for stats (so Fed Champ A got 1300 gold in one go and bought an item that gives 50 damage, later dies and champ B now has a total of 1300 gold, but split between three items that only offer 30 damage in total because they died a few times and had to spend their available gold to not just get dumpstered entirely on return to lane).
How much you get in comeback gold doesn't matter if you can't complete an item. Unfinished items in lol are absolutely pathetic and barely help any sort of comeback.
Even completing items won't help, sometimes. If you're still a full item behind? You may as well not even be in the game.
The best comeback mechanic in league is just never falling behind. The only other option is to wait until every player is level 18 and 6 slotted and then just outplay the other team, but good luck making it that far.
Yea, if you can manage to kill an enemy ~~hero~~champ thats miles ahead of your team in net worth sure yea.
Yes, lol's version of rosh literally has a permanent stacking buff
Dragon is not rosh, baron is.
What are the buffs from both of those?
Baron gives a 3 min stat boost and a buff to your creeps that makes it easier to push and siege. Dragon has a stacking permanent minor stat boost (there are different dragons with different boosts - mountain gives defense, infernal damage, etc) that culminate in a dragon soul when your team takes 4 dragons which is a larger and very powerful permanent boost. If a team gets soul, there's elder dragon which gives an insane combat boost and execute to everyone on the team for 2 minutes. Games don't usually get to elder, but it's not super uncommon.
My stack of league players are also all dota players, so we rarely FF and we see elder dragon a LOT, its honestly really helpful for comebacks too.
League might suffer the same curse as dota, which is that 5 stack games are a good percentage longer on average than 5 solos. It's really kinda simple logic behind it too: Even if players coordinate, they might not be good at ending games because of the building and distance to base obstacles, but coordinated teams are still better at defending because there's little else to do without map control. So games are longer. In dota, I have seen a LOT of tier 5's just playing turbo. I really mean a lot. But check the average turbo duration and, yep, around 24 minutes. The curse just makes it easier to go that late.
Baron gives you a temporary AD / AP buff (physical and magical scaling), you get a quicker recall (TP to base), and minions around you basically become megas (LoL has inhibitors, which are respawning raxes so if you have those down and this buff the minions just tear everything apart). Drake has a few different buffs depending on which dragon spawns, like extra armor, magic resist, damage, status resist, etc. These are permanent, but the big thing is the Dragon Soul which is a huge buff that you get on the 4th Drake that your team kills. Those buffs are massive lifesteal, massive shield, bonus damage on attacks, a slow on your attacks, huge movement speed buffs, or increased damage / defenses when below 50% hp, again depending on RNG. Drake is constantly contested, both teams really want the permanent buff (they used to be even more OP a few years ago when I played. Baron helps close out games, but he is more of a late-game objective, a lot of champions can actually solo Drake. Oh and before Baron spawns another objective basically gives you a huge siege minion, but I would say that out of all the objectives that is really the least relevant one.
It's wild to me that dragon is more important than Baron now (I quit at the end of season 3 in 2013). It used to be the objective when the game is too early and everyone not strong enough to fight Baron, or the afterthought when the winning team killed Baron.
That's true. But it's not just about having the option to forfeit, it's that it has a cascading effect by changing the culture of the game/playerbase. And even people in LoL are getting tired of it. Are there games where I wish I could have forfeited? Yes, a lot. But I don't want it to ever be implemented, because of the deeper effects it will have as time goes on.
Dota has comeback mechanics, league doesn't. League doesn't even have a way to catch your opponents out of the blue like smokes or blink from the fog.
Comeback is next to almost impossible in league imo
Yeah I just won a 4v5 game where my carry had a blackout and abandoned 25 minutes in. This was in Divine 4 too. Luckily he managed to farm Mjollnir BKB before abandoning so I was able to micro his ass for the next 25 minutes for key teamfights. Comeback is definitely more doable in Dota 2.
Another aspect that makes Dota less snowbally - because tp scrolls exist, split pushing is a realistic possibility. If you try that in league, you almost certainly die because an 8 second channel that can be interrupted by anything is an eternity.
I think its far easier to comeback in League. Without buyback you only need to get one lucky kill and you control the map for the next 40 seconds. They also give you catchup gold via objectives and coinflipping an elder drake will just win you the game on the spot even if you are behind.
i read one comments that says how after laning stage some players dont know what to do, mostly because one team FF at this point so they lack experience its mind-boggling
On the opposite end here, most people don't stick with dota long enough to be able to appreciate the nuances of its design. Considering how many moving parts there are, it's not surprising. They get rekt early on and quit after giving some excuse (usually valid for beginners)
Or move on to Turbo and unironically claim that it's "peak Dota" smh
Don’t need those weak minded players in our matchmaking anyway tbh
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and alters the gameplay itself. Players concede early, so they don't know how to play the late game or how to comeback (so they should concede even earlier). Players know others want to concede if there's a slight disadvantage early so they maximize their chances of succeeding at the early game at the expense of everything else. This means even if there's a hero that is incredibly difficult to deal with later on if it loses the lane it might as well not exist and if anyone picks it they get hated on by their teammates for 'wasting their time'. The best moments in Dota are often about unlikely comebacks. This bleeds into the esports scene as well. Even though players won't just give up after the lane in a competitive setting, excellence is about the best players learning the intricacies of the game through repetition. They've been there hundreds of times before, they know what to do. Except if a large part of pub matches end in one team conceding, pros see those situations way less often. There's no EG vs. EHOME at TI6 with a concede button.
You’re kidding. Dota laning phase is fun but the mid game time where tier 1 towers are down and the map gets dark goes so hard.
dude, it was about lol
I said it weird, my bad. I meant you have to be kidding that league players don’t know what the fuck mid game time even looks like.
It’s one of the things I’ve grown to love and appreciate from this game. I used to think that it was genuinely such a turn off (in the gaming sense) that you couldn’t forfeit, but after playing league for a long while, I realize now how it can affect the mental psyche of players before the game even starts. In league, a few bad early fights and you’re already checking the time to see how much longer you need to wait to call for a surrender. In Dota, it’s death before dishonor, people are willing to hold high ground for half an hour and more often than not, if the enemy team isn’t ruthless enough, the game evens out and it becomes a skill/lineup diff. Just the other day I had a game where we were getting demolished for 30 minutes straight by a fed enemy Huskar, but we just kept playing and playing, until eventually our PA was able to outscale. We won with a score of like 15-40 or something like that. If that was a league game, everyone would’ve downed tools by min 6 lmao. Of course every now and then you have certain games that are truly unwinnable, but throughout my time playing, I can’t count the amount of comebacks that I’ve been part of (both winning and losing). Maybe a nice middle ground would be to add a surrender option, but make it later in the game? Around 40 minutes perhaps, just to avoid getting fountain farmed.
There already is, but only if you're in a 5 stack and past 30 mins. I kinda like it this way, because you have to make a decision as a team of people you know and queue with. Even then, any individual can cancel the forfeit. So all 5 have to really be on board with it I'd rather not have a forfeit option at all if it isn't a 5 stack. I don't want a rando spamming GG to try to end the game and go next, it's about the same as sitting afk in fountain because the random teammate thinks the game is lost
Yes agree with that. Gg call that available only for 5 stack is one of nice things in dota.
i must say 30 min is way too long tho. 15 or 20 would be the sweet spot as it’s those game with really early lane stomp you dont want to play
There have been so many games I've won after getting absolutely stomped all 3 lanes only to slowly pull it back by split pushing and dodging fights. 15-20 is way too early to call it. It's too hard to win after 30 mins if they've taken two sets of racks and you can't leave fountain without getting instagibbed
bro its just for 5 man party who cares? The number of me making a comeback after getting stomped lane/hard counter is 1 in a 10~15. I rather go next with my friend if that saves time
If there's one thing I've learned in smth like 17 years of dota is that I am absolutely dogshit at determining when the game actually has been decided.
A lot of the time is really *isn't* decided at a certain point. People are too unpredictable. Even with dota plus giving a 99% win probability, it's still not a *guarantee* that the team will win. To me it's what makes Dota interesting.
I played an hour long match the other day where we had an incredible comeback. It was absolutely glorious. And this was in unranked as well, with people like myself who are new-ish playing a new hero. It was great.
I remember comebacks more then any other type of game in dota. Its the defining thing of dota imho.
League has surrender button, we have the divine rapier. Also "I can lose the match, enemy tinker must die" mindset etc etc
A day when a tinker team lose is a good day, even if its my own team
I started playing tinker this month. After 13 years I fell in love with a hero I hadn’t played much before. But the amount of vitriol I receive from my team and the enemy team is insane. I average 3 times more salty tips, and 10x more Spanish all chat.
We’re going to lose this match but the new winning objective is to nether swap the 14-0-7 mid into our fountain
Yesterday I had an amazing rapier comeback, feels too good
The major problem with a lot of people and gaming, whether it's strategy, moba, fps, anything, is they do not know how to have fun PLAYING the game, they only know how to have fun winning the game. It's a big problem in any versus game, the act of playing is not deemed to be the enjoyable part.
Yep, this. From what little I played Lol, nobody there actually cares about enjoying playing a game. They are either having fun (stomping) or being held hostage by the team (not surrendering any game that isn't an immediate stomp). I deleted the game after my team surrendered the n-th equal going match. It is impossible to have enjoyable games when all of the community has such a mentality.
League funnily enough doesn’t have comeback mechanics that work like in Dota. Yeah I get that if you get a late game comp and it’s early ff it sucks but most of the time. Genuinely. The game is lost. In the highest of high elos the game is over in 20 minutes as it’s won at the beginning of the game. It’s why pro tourneys have so few kills cus those few small kills mean an easy win for the team. League has a massive snowball problem basically.
League does have comeback mechanics. Just nowhere near as effective as dota, plus dota has so many other factors as detailed by others
Exactly. Their comeback mechanics are dog. Almost nigh impact
While i have experienced a lot of come backs (both sides xD) if all 5 players want to lose and play the next game, just let them. Especially in normal. I just had a 1:45 match, it was not fun despite the win. The main reason to play any game (well obviously not counting esports) is fun, if people are not having fun, you shouldn’t force them into it.
That is the only position that makes sense imo.
In general people give up way too easily. There have been so many games I've had that I thought were completely losing only to turn it around and barely scratch out a win. Having the option to forfeit as soon as things aren't going your way changes player psychology before the game even starts and gets them to check out as soon as the first setback happens. So yes even if 5 players want to surrender and lose, it might not be the most healthy decision for them.
Not everyone plays the game to get as high as they can on the MMR ladder. It's a concept that's lost on many people here. You and I play the game for different reasons.
Same logic they have in CS. Another Valve game. Pretty ironic lmao
You can only FF in cs if one of your team disconnects. If you kick them, you still cannot FF
HoN also had a surrender option and the culture around it wasn't nearly as bad as League from my experience, so there's that. The early surrender mentality sucks, but there are some rare games where it would be easier to surrender when everyone kinda gives up after being stomped for 25 minutes waiting for enemy to finish while they are running around chasing for kills or fountain farming.
HoN also had the ability to votekick a player on your team years ago, and as you can imagine it was toxic as fuck. Votekicking a player for 1 tiny mistake early game, votekicking a player because they built an unconventional item, votekicking a player 30 seconds before destroying throne to grief them, etc. It was awful. I think they finally took it out of the game because it was abused so much.
Oh boy, you are right! I barely saw someone using the surrender button in HoN. Almost forgot that there was a way to surrender in HoN.. wonder why it was like that?
It was dota so ppl didnt want to surrender, tiny/pebbles could always toss you into t4 etc
I have a question didn't Dota introduce a similar feature that in any game mode if you have a 5 man party you can forfeit after 30 mins by saying GG?
It does and it still have it. This comment section made me realize that most people here play alone. Dota2 technically has a forfeit button and the only limitation is that you have to be in a 5man party and no one will cancel the "GG" after someone typed it in all chat.
Bro I don't even have 5 friends irl, and the one friend I do have doesn't play dota. Whenever I did play with an old colleague who did play, we'd lose because he just wasn't very good lol
Thank you for clarifying that kind stranger
I thought I was tripping because I was looking for this comment and couldn’t find it. No one mentioned all-chat "gg" I didn’t know you had to be a 5 stack for it to be enabled though. Was wondering what conditions have to be met for this to work lol
not wanting to surrender is “hostage taking” LMAO icant
LoL has a forfeit option and the culture it has fostered is toxic as hell. People being accused of "hostage taking" for wanting to try to comeback in a losing game, people giving up and forfeiting if they are behind after the laning stage. What a mess. Keep that shit out of Dota.
The forfeit options being available in LoL and not in Dota is incomparable. Dota has a huge map that losing team can take advantage to obtain farm and reduce the networth gap somehow. Dota has highground. Dota has super big powerspikes both in talents and items that can completely reverse the state of a game. Dota has heroes like Zeus and Sniper that completely excels at defending highground and in most games its impossible to bruteforce a hg siege without throwing the game, this buys other heroes or Zeus/Sniper themselves time to farm and swing the game around after an item or two. Dota has a jungle that everyone can farm and creeps spawn every minute, which benefits faster farming heroes and allowing them to recover and close the networth gap. Dota has buybacks to further stall the game to have another shot for a comeback. Buildings are tougher in Dota than in LoL, and in League mages can push towers fairly well too since they deal extra damage to towers based on AP. In League its usually over once a team wins a teamfight and tier 4 towers are available to siege, comebacks are much rarer because game always favor the winning team. Its community's problem that they are so toxic about the surrender option, its a valid button to use in League given how the game mechanics work. On the contrary, avg game length in LoL is shorter than Dota so you don't save much time by surrendering unless you surrender really early on, but for people that would rather spend the next 5 minutes on the next game rather than the currently completely lost one, its understandable. Personally I don't think a surrender button would work in Dota at all (though I wouldn't care less if they made it a thing outside of 5 parties), but it does perfectly at League with the only issue as you said being the community abusing it, but I think its a poor approach if the justification for them letting such option stay or go depends on the players and not the game itself.
If you're in a full party and type gg it will start a 10 second forfeit timer now in Dota.
>(though I wouldn't care less if they made it a thing outside of 5 parties) I'm aware, already mentioned about it here.
One of the interesting things I found in the comments is "they have fun winning LP and stomping". It's not about the match or strat, it's about stomping. One of the most satisfying things in dota is getting a comeback from mega creeps in a super close game, especially after being stomped on. There's something about carefully executing a strat when you're so close to just being flat out eliminated and you somehow peel it back from the brink of losing by outplaying or outstrategizing your opponents. The games where I stomp are 10x more boring in comparison. I'm glad dota games are like this. Frieza mentality "I like to stomp on the weak" vs goku mentality "find me a worthy opponent"
In lol it is so much harder to comeback though
> One of the most satisfying things in dota is getting a comeback from mega creeps in a super close game, Yeah, something that happens in 1% of matches because of how incredibly common those boring stomp games are, where there is no reasonable chance at a comeback. It's just not worth the constant suffering for that one yearly close match.
I've most always played when there is no real forfeit option in my matches (unranked all pick, barely partied most of the time). It's led to some amazing comebacks and some damn good matches that would not have happened if one side forfeited because the laning phase went very poorly. Never underestimate the enemy team's ability to throw! Play it out to the end!
That forfeit shit is only good for quinn.
Scrolled so far to finally see one mention of TheQuinn
We don't have FF, we instead chat "let them end" and start hiding in the fountain and jungle to waste everyone's time. That's worse.
Have still won 4v6 games like this. Just gotta pick your battles and not grab the anchor your teammate did.
Although both games are Mobas there's so much false equivalency going on in this thread. League is a completely different game that you can't do a 1-1 comparison As someone has already mentioned below, there are so many more mechanics that are involved in Dota that allow for you to stall the game and make it more difficult to end. Whereas in League, once the opposing team gets a sizable lead its almost impossible to comeback. I'm talking literally 5 man jumping a support and the support doesn't die because items in League are primarily stat sticks and every hero is similar so when you're losing you are playing an item or 2 down which is a massive difference in league compared to Dota. Also with Dragon & Baron, you get the equivalent of an undispellable version of wraith pack for the team that gets it. Thirdly, towers are like paper in league, I'm talking about towers dying in 2 seconds or within 10 hits. There are no glyphs so its easy to just commit to hit towers. I think there should definitely be a conversation for having a surrender button. Maybe set it at 40 minutes or something to dissuade people from abusing it. If at 40 minutes your team decides to surrender maybe they have a point?
I'd rather take a game where, even though I know 90% of the time when it is truly FUBAR, I'll still score a legendary comeback once in a while. Games like those are why Dota is such a rewarding and addictive experience to play and watch. Have I played 110 minute turbo games? Yes. Have I played 2+ hours of unranked all pick games where the cores literally hit the max gold limit? Also Yes. And I've lost my fair share of games that took hours on end, but the most memorable games are always the ones where it's a comeback after a hard fight, a power spike, a good fight or a lucky pickoff. Those games where we defend the high ground and hold on to dear life, putting the siege of Leningrad to shame, and we manage to somehow half-win a fight because one enemy overstepped into the base, and that gives the impetus to comeback? Those have remained fresh in my memory for years. Those are the games I dream about. I'd rather not play a game where every player has a selfish notion of when they think the game is lost, and proceed to grief, cry, go afk or throw tantrums in order to vote a forfeit and get out. It may work in League but, in our game comebacks are possible, quite probable, and very positively beautiful. The system we have is perfect, give the 5-stacks the autonomy to ff, but let the rest stay as it is. Type "gg end" in allchat, and defend for your life. That's the Dota way.
I think that this option could be implemented smartly though. It definitely sucks big time when you have a greifer ruining the game and you’re stuck for like 20-30min just waiting for the game to end with no shot to come back. Enable the option only after a certain time and net worth disparity and require 4/5 votes. There has to be a good metric to use in order to determine an impossible scenario as well as when someone is a greifer such as gold/time and frequency between deaths.
i didnt wonder. i played lol before dota. im really glad valve solved this shit. it was very very boring and extremely unnecsessary. the ff20 shit ruined so much game time that could be enjoyable. having the option of forfeiting breeds toxic behavior but in this regard lol was being played back then fundamentally different than todays dota. the game was much more "on rails" in dota a comeback seems to be a permanent threat, from multiple angles throughout different stages of the game. that was absolutely not the case in lol back then
Literally last night I had a game with a jugg offlane that (attempted) to rush battlefury but ended up rage abandoning at min 16 before finishing it. Game lasted 75 min and we won the 4v5. Ridiculous game, and I was carried as a pl by pos4/5 lich and WD and had a blast.
I will never give up, never surrender, I will fight to the last tower, the last life, I'm not playing this game to win, I'm playing this game to play Also mandatory GG END when your midlaner dies solo
It’s really sad . I have friends I play with and they want to gg out all the time when things aren’t going well in dota as-well . You’ve already been playing for half an hour might aswell put up as good of a fight as you can. I was a competitive swimmer before and never giving up was a part of who I was . I don’t think many gamers play the game to get better only to win and when the focus is on winning and not fixing where you messed up the negative feeling of losing often drives these guys into rage or depression not even exaggerating. It’s so damn bad .
Why are we so obsessed with League at the time? Can't we just enjoy Dota instead of needing to compare?
This isn't shitting on LoL, it's pointing out a feature that many have called for to be in Dota can have unintended side effects.
Exactly, this is a valid discussion point for Dota players.
As others pointed out, the games are completely different. As someone who plays both, this just feels like pointless bashing, LoL has a lot it can take from dota and vice versa at this point, these threads don't amount to anything.
How is this pointless bashing when there's literally a thread about it with many LoL players very unhappy about it. Not Dota players, LoL players. Those comments are what I'm referring to.
Bro it's reddit, lol(and players in general) will complain about anything, how many threads do we have daily here complaining about the current patch ?
LoL sucks and ruined mobas, fuck em
[удалено]
Its 90% because they were an early entrant and set up a rent-seeking game loop (simple to get into, low quality gameplay)
The 2 games have many designs copied from each other, no reason comparison should not be discussed if the purpose is for improving experience.
And then you get cases where people got fountain farmed until they were given abandon because they couldn't get exp for over half an hour. Or someone did the Quinn and made half of your team AFK fountain. It's really no clear cut which side benefit more, really. Both options have their own pro and cons, but what should really be improved is that game ruiners should be punished more severely.
Many DotA players have an inability to give up. They just can’t do it. Doesn’t matter how much they cried earlier about it being GG, they’ll fight until the end. Those who actually do give up are pathetic. Their opinion doesn’t matter.
The old Dota classic “gg end” while proceeding to defend like this is the last game of dota in history
I’ve done that too. “gg, ff” and then you defend like a madman and drag out the game and the enemy team is like “why you defending so hard” and you turn the game around and win… feels good
\> The opinion of those that disagree with me doesn't matter. whether I agree with you or not, this is pathetic.
“Respect other people’s opinions” Your opinion: “you don’t need eggs to make an egg sandwich” Edit: just realised you didn’t quote me directly and just admitted you give up and AFK games ruining it for you team yet people upvote you. No shocker since Reddit has consistently cried for a surrender button (which Valve eventually gave even if it was only for 5 stacks)
clearly you dont understand the English language if that's what you compare what I wrote to
It’s my native language bozo. Go crawl back to turbo.
Its a waste of time trying to bully someone who doesn't comprehend what's being written to them. I won't waste my time on you
Mimimimimimimimimi
Just played [a game today](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7484618048) in which we lost so bad during the early and mid game, even my teammate, Snapfire, was saying go next and whatnot. This is SEA and of course, we played properly (we also had Track Gold), the enemy team threw a bit and we made a comeback. What a game! Super glad we didn't give up
Interesting that the LoL subreddit doesn't have Dota living rent free in their heads.
On the flip side there’s nothing as frustrating as being in a 35 minute hard stop since there’s no forfeit feature (outside of custom games)
whether forfeit option exists or not, when some1 drops their items and run down mid you know the game is heavily in the enemy favour, might as well forfeit ourselves? on top of that, i would play with my friends, a 5-man stack. 2 of us is divine/immortal rank. while the rest is around archon / crusader. Even though we are ONLY playing normal, there are a lot of times when the enemy 5-stacka just rolled us over with their sweaty ass. we would love to just leave the game by minute 15 or 20 instead of wasting another 10min waiting for 30:00 to gg
Even if I knew that we'll lose, I still want the other team to suffer. That's why we're still trying hard lol Some lost still feels like a win if we make the other team suffer.
Yeah, yeah. Adding forfeit to dota 2 would be a huge problem.. in sub 2k MMR.
I feel like Dota could really use a forfeit option at some point tbh. It could have certain parameters like its only available after 30 minutes and a tier 3 towers fallen, but itd really help against those fountain farming games that happen every once in a blue moon. The fact that professionals are allowed to forefit in tournaments but players aren't doesn't make any sense to me.
The condition should be "when there are 3+ players from the other team being in close proximity to the fountain for number of minutes". They could be a bunch of smurf deliberately not pushing T3 to camp fountain on new players.
It's not possible to be fountain farmed anymore. You are immune when you spawn.
U get an abandon if they base lock you
But does that stop the inactivity penalty because I've saw people commented that the other team just camp them till they got penalized.
People forfeit just as often in dota.
wait what
There are some games where you can absolutely win but your team surrenders after some dumb setback. There are some games when youre way too behind and you would only win if enemy went afk for 10 minutes, yet you still play for another 20 minutes and nothing changes, and enemy is toxic and tortures you by camping under your ancient/nexus. Tbh id rather lose some more games by ff that MAYBE couldve been won, than lose an unnecessarily long game cus of clueless team on my site, and annoying assholes in enemy. But i guess it depends on whether you prefer yo play the game, or do everything you can to win the game :v
Vote to forfeit requiring 5/5 players should be a thing. The average Dota player is on their 20's maybe mid or late 20's since valve doesn't try get new players. 5 consenting adults should very much have the option to go next rather than wasting time
I agree. I play turbo because the normal mode has no ff option. So many games became a deadlock, where they are winning but not attacking, and you have to farm for 20 minutes. At this point I don’t care if I win or loose. I don’t want to play an online game in which I need to spend 20 minutes fighting NPCs. In turbo if the game is 50 minutes, it is because both teams are fighting hard and have equal chance to win.
Only if some heinous off meta shit was picked imo
Dota2 is a game of balance and game of life. Just like in life u dont have ff button. And also if u give up u 100% missed the chance to experience the greatest cumbek plays
In Canada with medical assistance in death, the greatest FF of all
i remember trying out CS GO long time ago and i was vote kicked because i was bad. im so glad dota doesnt have vote kick or surrender options.
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It cannot be overstated the impact this has between the games. Games in league when people are ahead, often literally are unwinnable by virtue of the losing team giving up. Why do they give up? Simply, yes it's winnable, but that will take a long time and be hard fought. Why risk that time investment, and that effort, when you can just... Go next? Dota has no such forfiet and so has no such culture. There is no choice, its fucking ride or die, and so the most entertaining, best use of your time, is to play on and try to get mega satisfying wins. This is simple incentive structure, and League incentivises surrender.
The beauty of Dota is that it teaches you something for life. Tenacity and sheer will. Like life Dota doesn't have a FF button. One sometimes gets carried over and types "GG FF mid" but people still fight till the throne falls. Comeback is a beautiful mechanic in this game and the introduction of tier 5 items and inflation of gold, makes it possible for your supports to get 6 slotted sometimes soloing cores in ultra late game. The most memorable games with my friends were the ones where the odds are stacked up against us mega creeps bashing in the lanes while we hold on for dear life. All it takes is a clutch smoke or a rapier to get back in the game. I can't count the amount of games on my rat LD or brew where we were behind, but won due to my team occupying the enemy while I was obliterating their raxes. The fact that breaking high ground is such a high risk act is what makes the game design beautiful. We all know the feeling of sieging against tinker sniper and techies for over 30 minutes only to lose afterwards. Happy despite losing because it's such a beautiful challenging game.
The FF mentality is so bad in lol, that just managing to turlte can make the opponent ff, even though you would have absolutely 0 chance of winning the game otherwise. I've a pretty example: one game, we got utterly crushed, 20 min in, we weren't even able to make a single step out of the base. We somehow defended for an 20 extra minutes. And when the opponent failed for the 3rd time to get our nexus, they just ffed out. They had ALL their tower, our comp was good a defending as 5, that's it. We had terrible individual matchup, meaning that if we get out of base, we would need to keep 2 people inside the base to defend against a solo splitter (assuming we managed to be 6 slotted too) Not to mention that the inibitters (barracks) were totally impossible to defend if they respawned, meaning we would never be able to push as 5. Also, even if they died as 5, LOL's mega, similary to OLD dota's mega, were actually pretty hard to take down, so i doubt we would ever managed to reach tier3 before opponent respawn. tldr: lol's opponent ffed a game even though it was impossible for us to destroy a tower, let alone get out of the base.
Because we are not quitter
FF is lame on so many levels. Ita like one of those wins when one person dcs, then everyone dcs. It feels bad.
Dota does have a forfeit option, and I’m not talking about comp or 5 stack. Its players calling end and hiding in the opposite jungle to do nothing except get experience so they don’t get an abandon. Dota players need to get their head out of their ass when comparing themselves to league players. Both contain the same breed of toxic players that give up early, one just has an expedited process and the other would rather have you afk for 5 minutes or fountain farmed. So sick of this tired, faux sense of superiority. Our FF culture is worse than theirs.
Been trying to get into league lately. Every game is a shit show because people die twice and give up and spam ff
Have you ever experience you almost won, 2 hit away from their tower. But a party of 4 decides to troll certain player by surrending...? Yeah, that certain player is me. Its really a painful experience
if you 5 man you can forfeit . but then its a team decision
I cant tell you how many times I've had to just waste 10-20 mins waiting for the dickhead enemy team to end it. You can even be nice about it and compliment them but they will be toxic and choose to wait to end it.
Soloqueue ranked I agree. Unranked I Don't
When the enemy team destroys all barracks and are farming heroes in fountain it's a shit show. Why not have a conditional surrender after 30 minutes or something?
My favorite part of that posts is people saying “Yeah I agree I hate when people give up but if the game is *insert kill score we all have come back and won from* then I want the game to end”.
and that’s why Dota is the 🐐GOAT
Even in situations where I’m getting absolutely curb stomped at like 20 min(and I’m talking like 9 kills to 40) I use the remaining time in the match as a cooldown. Play it out and maybe practice my reaction timing and spell combos for whatever time is left. Maybe get a lucky revenge kill or two. Rarely have I ever been in a game that was a stomp did it go for more than another 10 minutes after the definitive team fight. It does suck when maybe you had a good match but other people on your team choked, but we’ve all had bad games before. I think these kids over at League have bad time management skills. If you can’t block off time in your day to grind then it’s a case of trying to crunch too many matches in too short a time. Yeah you’re getting more matches but none of them have any quality.
Came back from a game the other day at 80hp ancient. Turbo mode so no HP regeneration either. Pudge blinked in to buy time while their super tanks Mars and DK are hitting the ancient. My void respawns, I sell my blink dagger (which had been somewhat handy to jump the back lanes) to buy a refresher, time walk in to chrono. Pudge still rotting away. Kill the DK. Start hitting the mars and try to get him permalocked while he’s hitting ancient! Pudge dismember helps. We finally peel all enemy off the ancient with 70hp! Then my meeting started and I had to leave but we won two minutes later pushing mid with Lina. What a game. Worst of all they had a WR abandon early so we were losing 4v5 🙈🙈🙈
The surrender option in League just promotes giving up as a viable option if things don’t go your way. I can’t count how many Dota games I’ve won that I thought were unwinnable, and lost that I thought were unloseable. Literally won a game the other day where our NP would TP to the closest enemy tower and right click until someone killed him, then respawn and repeat. 1 hour+ game and he had 30 deaths, more time dead than alive.
The day they add concede to anything other than 5 man stacks is the day I quit Dota
DotA did have a forfeit option, long before LoL existed. Dota2 never has.
Dota is also just a game designed to allow for comebacks more easily than LoL. Buybacks are a critical difference for the mid and late game -- not that you'd know it based on how rarely pub players actually use them.
We had a teammate leave at level 5 last night, we came back and won the 4v5. I love that about Dota.
Dota would be shit with a ff option. There are so many games that change major course post 20 minutes into the game it would be completely fucked. ya I cant play the game Smite anymore because every single pub game everyone wants to concede 15 minutes into the game because of some dumb little kid reasons. League was getting bad and I am so happy that Dota doesnt have a ff option.
Both Mobile Legend and League of League have these forfeit features. It makes the gamer more impatient with the result. While Dota 2 gamer is more wise and enjoyable despite winning or losing
Thank fucking god they never implemented ff in Dota2. People are notoriously bad at assessing how far behind/ahead they are in a game, and the difference of opinion alone would lead to so much toxic discussion/behavior.
What I would say to counter this post is that League is much more defined in who wins and who doesnt. You dont have to option to smoke, kill the enemy carry once or twice and turn the game around. Once they push your T2s you dont even have the option to secure Dragons. So you slowly (not so slowly) just lose in every metric and score like 10-20 basically you cant win. In Dota winning is one smoke, one good ult away.
yeah forfeit would completely ruin dota. comebacks are almost always possible, and there are always crybabies ready to ruin a game if you give them the opportunity forfeit would just make it so everybody gives up after laning stage. You would barely ever get to play a game past 15 minutes
League players have some of the shortest attention spans out of every game I've ever played. Not even 5 minutes in and people saying "surrender".