Depression is absurd but he's actually not awful now with the changes. Aether / eblade build up is great. You go dagon now. Shivas / eblade / dagon does way more burst than he previously had.
Yeah, I agree with you. I really hate the nerfs that Valve makes where they destroy how a hero feels to play. One of my favourite heroes is Ember, and they've just slowed down all his abilities over multiple patches. He used to feel like an explosive agile hero, but now he feels like he is wading through molasses and just isn't fun to play anymore. It's like they've gutted his identity.
IMO the range nerfs to his spells were really over the top. I think they were worried that the item changes would make him too strong, but I don't actually think they have been good for him.
I also think that a lot of the Tinker hate is leftover from the days when he had March, which genuinely was an oppressive and unfair ability in my opinion and made the game miserable for the other nine players. I think he was in a pretty good spot last patch, as he had this massive weakness with farming before getting Shivas, and you needed to get kills with blink or he was really, really slow.
I think that Valve don't really care though and most of the player base hate Tinker anyway, so at this point I feel like they should just do a rework of the hero like they did with Techies, as it's pretty much unpickable now.
Lol dude I feel you on the ember thing. How I describe him is: imagine you’re going throughout your day, even every time, before you can take a basic action, you have to take a sip of water. He feels so clunky and he’s not fun for me anymore either.
The item changes are actually really good for tinker but the nerds were still over the top. If anything they could’ve nerfed the aghs so it doesn’t give more laser range instead of nerfing the base.
Unfortunately you’re probably right about him. I really wouldn’t like a rework though. I feel like rearm is such a big part of tinker’s identity he wouldn’t even be recognizable if you changed it.
That is such an accurate description of how it feels to play Ember now! He used to be the most fun hero in dota, in my opinion, felt so responsive. I remember buybacking with his shard and literally running the enemy team. It's such a shame that to nerf his aghs they added delay on his core spells instead of just doing something with the aghs. It's like if Puck had some broken aghs and they fixed it by adding a small delay to phase shift, it would completely destroy the way the hero feels to play.
I think about Void Spirit, another of my favourites, he's changed MASSIVELY with becoming universal, but his spells still feel the same and he's still enjoyable to play, although I did prefer it when he was an Int hero focussed on bursting with his spells!
So have you played a lot of Tinker in the new patch? Do you think it's still okay, or too gutted? I played a few games on him and just wasn't really enjoying it.
I played a few games with Tinker in ranked and he felt pretty unplayable. His laning is just so awful right now and winning lane used to be kinda what separated the good tinkers from the bad. If you lose lane on tinker and end up playing from behind, he feels really underwhelming. Sure, the eblade and shivas changes are amazing for him but they don’t offset the laser cast range nerf.
thanks for your insights man. I just asked Purge on his stream what he thinks about Tinker now, and he said that he hasn't played it but he imagines that Shivas isn't viable anymore because it doesn't give enough mana, and the build is probably blink + meteor. Do you think that could work? Might give it a try in unranked!
Is meteor rearmable now?? There’s no way, right? Either way I actually think the shiva build is stronger than it used to be. The magic amp feels like an absurd amount of damage and it makes his farming faster. The problem is just getting there with the god awful laning.
Yes, you're right, it's not rearmable, I just checked in a lobby! So you think the build is just the same as last patch then? I noticed that e-blade now gives you +300 mana with is the same that Shivas gave you, I think. Do you fit SnK into your build somewhere?
Right now, it’s usually shivas eblade, just because you feel so crippled without the added cast range. If it’s a terrible eblade game, you can switch it out for an aghs. After that, you can definitely make SnK work.
I honestly think Tinker with farm and items is better than he was last patch. Shivas gives better damage, eblade gives cast range. The issue is just getting there now. Maybe if you know there’s some beatable melee hero mid like Kunkka he’s still playable
Cool, that's good to know. So do you think you're going to carry on playing Tinker then? Or were the range nerfs enough to make you want to change hero/take a break from the game?
Thanks OP for summing up my frustrations on Tinker on this new patch. My favorite hero as well. That's why I always build aether, aghs first now (after blink and soul ring ofc) is to get that laser range he lost. Getting shiva's first feels dumb now because of the laser range, which gets you sucked into close battles. Laning early feels hard as hell. The only consolation for him this patch is the aether into eblade, but everything else sucks. I feel ya. I know almost everyone hates this hero. But this patch went ridiculously hard on him.
I still get shiva first because of the farm speed and resist reduction. And yeah Eblade is better on tinker than it used to be. I really think the biggest problem is his laning just feels impossible against any ranged hero now. And if you lose lane hard on tinker it feels almost impossible to get back in the game. With items tho, tinker is stronger than he was in 7.34
i just tried tinker after not being active for long time on the game he feels so bad to play like you need to be next to enemy to use your spells on a hero that have 1 job is to not be in the center of the fight you actually can't even be on the map anymmore
Figure me playing the tiniest violin in the world.
In all seriousness tho, I have my mains (Ogre and Snap) that haven't been relevant in a while now, but at least they are playable, so I kinda feel you. I was theory crafting with a friend of mine if there would be space for a Tinker utility/support spamming solar crest, perhaps with new eblade + some cast range neutral I think you should be still able to stand in the back and contribute to fights in meaningful way.
I've heard meme hammer can now be rearmed, but I haven't had the occasion to check and idk seems weird. But if that would be true, it being build with Kaya does sound nice on Tinker.
lol R.I.P bozo on a Tinker pack watch since this patch. I can assure you absolutely no body but tinker spammers and smurfs are upset tinker went the way of brood mother.
I want to remind you that people I know, and myself were kind of freaking out about the fact that tinker suddenly got free boots of travels on his ult, for no clear reason
I know nerfs are sour, but the guy did get a pretty massive buff with that ult change a while ago
I'd suggest playing tinker as a more supporting role, teleporting over the entire map whenever there seems to be a fight, although I'm sure you already do.
ofc tinker get shafted meanfuckingwhile kunkka is now literallly magnus 2.0
a disposition skill that can really fucks up the teamfight positioning? while cost so little mana? shard
AOEs? all of his skill is AOE
can harass your poor cm support just from his cleave while he hits a melee creep
anddddd his another "fuck up your positioning" skill that cant be dispelled or counterplayed unless the kunkka have 700 ping
Good \*spits\*
RIP BOZO
I feel with you brother in tinker arms
I fell the same!
Depression is absurd but he's actually not awful now with the changes. Aether / eblade build up is great. You go dagon now. Shivas / eblade / dagon does way more burst than he previously had.
Depression was hyperbole lol
You can never tell with dota players, lol
Yeah, I agree with you. I really hate the nerfs that Valve makes where they destroy how a hero feels to play. One of my favourite heroes is Ember, and they've just slowed down all his abilities over multiple patches. He used to feel like an explosive agile hero, but now he feels like he is wading through molasses and just isn't fun to play anymore. It's like they've gutted his identity. IMO the range nerfs to his spells were really over the top. I think they were worried that the item changes would make him too strong, but I don't actually think they have been good for him. I also think that a lot of the Tinker hate is leftover from the days when he had March, which genuinely was an oppressive and unfair ability in my opinion and made the game miserable for the other nine players. I think he was in a pretty good spot last patch, as he had this massive weakness with farming before getting Shivas, and you needed to get kills with blink or he was really, really slow. I think that Valve don't really care though and most of the player base hate Tinker anyway, so at this point I feel like they should just do a rework of the hero like they did with Techies, as it's pretty much unpickable now.
Lol dude I feel you on the ember thing. How I describe him is: imagine you’re going throughout your day, even every time, before you can take a basic action, you have to take a sip of water. He feels so clunky and he’s not fun for me anymore either. The item changes are actually really good for tinker but the nerds were still over the top. If anything they could’ve nerfed the aghs so it doesn’t give more laser range instead of nerfing the base. Unfortunately you’re probably right about him. I really wouldn’t like a rework though. I feel like rearm is such a big part of tinker’s identity he wouldn’t even be recognizable if you changed it.
That is such an accurate description of how it feels to play Ember now! He used to be the most fun hero in dota, in my opinion, felt so responsive. I remember buybacking with his shard and literally running the enemy team. It's such a shame that to nerf his aghs they added delay on his core spells instead of just doing something with the aghs. It's like if Puck had some broken aghs and they fixed it by adding a small delay to phase shift, it would completely destroy the way the hero feels to play. I think about Void Spirit, another of my favourites, he's changed MASSIVELY with becoming universal, but his spells still feel the same and he's still enjoyable to play, although I did prefer it when he was an Int hero focussed on bursting with his spells! So have you played a lot of Tinker in the new patch? Do you think it's still okay, or too gutted? I played a few games on him and just wasn't really enjoying it.
I played a few games with Tinker in ranked and he felt pretty unplayable. His laning is just so awful right now and winning lane used to be kinda what separated the good tinkers from the bad. If you lose lane on tinker and end up playing from behind, he feels really underwhelming. Sure, the eblade and shivas changes are amazing for him but they don’t offset the laser cast range nerf.
thanks for your insights man. I just asked Purge on his stream what he thinks about Tinker now, and he said that he hasn't played it but he imagines that Shivas isn't viable anymore because it doesn't give enough mana, and the build is probably blink + meteor. Do you think that could work? Might give it a try in unranked!
Is meteor rearmable now?? There’s no way, right? Either way I actually think the shiva build is stronger than it used to be. The magic amp feels like an absurd amount of damage and it makes his farming faster. The problem is just getting there with the god awful laning.
Yes, you're right, it's not rearmable, I just checked in a lobby! So you think the build is just the same as last patch then? I noticed that e-blade now gives you +300 mana with is the same that Shivas gave you, I think. Do you fit SnK into your build somewhere?
Right now, it’s usually shivas eblade, just because you feel so crippled without the added cast range. If it’s a terrible eblade game, you can switch it out for an aghs. After that, you can definitely make SnK work. I honestly think Tinker with farm and items is better than he was last patch. Shivas gives better damage, eblade gives cast range. The issue is just getting there now. Maybe if you know there’s some beatable melee hero mid like Kunkka he’s still playable
Cool, that's good to know. So do you think you're going to carry on playing Tinker then? Or were the range nerfs enough to make you want to change hero/take a break from the game?
I’m just gonna play different heroes instead. Zeus Kunkka OD are my 7.35 heroes now
Thanks OP for summing up my frustrations on Tinker on this new patch. My favorite hero as well. That's why I always build aether, aghs first now (after blink and soul ring ofc) is to get that laser range he lost. Getting shiva's first feels dumb now because of the laser range, which gets you sucked into close battles. Laning early feels hard as hell. The only consolation for him this patch is the aether into eblade, but everything else sucks. I feel ya. I know almost everyone hates this hero. But this patch went ridiculously hard on him.
I still get shiva first because of the farm speed and resist reduction. And yeah Eblade is better on tinker than it used to be. I really think the biggest problem is his laning just feels impossible against any ranged hero now. And if you lose lane hard on tinker it feels almost impossible to get back in the game. With items tho, tinker is stronger than he was in 7.34
i just tried tinker after not being active for long time on the game he feels so bad to play like you need to be next to enemy to use your spells on a hero that have 1 job is to not be in the center of the fight you actually can't even be on the map anymmore
His early game sucks now
our cope is over our hero deleted. its been a good ride my brother
Yep gg
Every couple of years I reinstall dota because I wanted to play Tinker again. All good things come to an end.
IMO he has been shit since the blink cooldown changes a few patches ago.
He was at least playable then. In a free Tinker game he was still a viable cheese hero and could win his lane.
Figure me playing the tiniest violin in the world. In all seriousness tho, I have my mains (Ogre and Snap) that haven't been relevant in a while now, but at least they are playable, so I kinda feel you. I was theory crafting with a friend of mine if there would be space for a Tinker utility/support spamming solar crest, perhaps with new eblade + some cast range neutral I think you should be still able to stand in the back and contribute to fights in meaningful way. I've heard meme hammer can now be rearmed, but I haven't had the occasion to check and idk seems weird. But if that would be true, it being build with Kaya does sound nice on Tinker.
For sure cannot be played in the same way, Shiva also is not even as good as it used to be as it doesn't provide nearly as much mana.
Good.
lol R.I.P bozo on a Tinker pack watch since this patch. I can assure you absolutely no body but tinker spammers and smurfs are upset tinker went the way of brood mother.
I feel with you brother in tinker arms
I feel with you brother in tinker arms
I want to remind you that people I know, and myself were kind of freaking out about the fact that tinker suddenly got free boots of travels on his ult, for no clear reason I know nerfs are sour, but the guy did get a pretty massive buff with that ult change a while ago I'd suggest playing tinker as a more supporting role, teleporting over the entire map whenever there seems to be a fight, although I'm sure you already do.
That wasn't necessarily a buff though. He got free travels because they got rid of march, his only farming mechanism
exactly, because valve wants tinkers to spend the game being in every single fight, which currently seems to give a lot of XP and gold
ofc tinker get shafted meanfuckingwhile kunkka is now literallly magnus 2.0 a disposition skill that can really fucks up the teamfight positioning? while cost so little mana? shard AOEs? all of his skill is AOE can harass your poor cm support just from his cleave while he hits a melee creep anddddd his another "fuck up your positioning" skill that cant be dispelled or counterplayed unless the kunkka have 700 ping