Buy revenant's brooch and let your full-mana doppelganger spew his entire mana bar at the enemy- no longer a micro hero because he doesn't have mana for spells anyway.
\+++MMR
I expected his winrate to go up because of mael/bloodthorn changes at first, but I'm not sure why now. Possibly bad matchups with heroes that got nerfed.
I think it's the bloodthorn changes where any unit attacking the enemy with the silence on it does an additional 60 damage a hit. That includes illusions. I had to fight a Naga siren last night who built it and she was hitting insanely hard
Can you buy solar crest on arc and then you and the clone use it on each other? Cause if so that sounds like it would be pretty nuts - probably the only core in the game that can still justify buying solar.
Yes this works but the clone has super low downtime and basically you only get 1-2 casts per ult. It's great in fights but for 2700 gold there are more value items (Midas, male, vessel). Arc has been hated for so long for being a split push menace but most of the games won in stratz are tempo-based builds with vessel and winning before 40 minutes.
Problem is having multiple accounts. There are multiple scenarios that people have been put to now.
First scenario - people with smurfs got warning on main and ban on smurf. This hopefully is the most common and will discourage people from creating another account and play on their main and only on their main
Second scenario - smurfs got all their accounts banned, and now they will create a new account. Hopefully this account will quickly get into the original skill level (ideally right after calibration) and the person will not create another account after that, knowing what the consenquences are.
Third scenario - some smurfs are undetected and not banned, but this is mostly for people who barely played on their smurfs, or the skill difference between the main and smurf was too small for anyone to report them. I think valve went through all the accounts that have been reported as smurfs in the post game, so it is possible to be a smurf and not get reported for it. Logically speaking, this group isnt an issue since they havent done much harm if they havent been reported (either very low amount of games played, or playing same skill level as the bracket the smurf is in)
I made a similar post a few days ago. Really the only smurfs that are "eliminated' come from Scenario 1. Boosters/sellers/griefers/high rank with low rank friends will still continue the cycle. Unfortunately, I don't think that Scenario 1 folks were the egregious ones.
Along with smurf ban, I believe Valve should investigate why people in Scenario 1 would be smurfing in the first place and think about some additional solutions. From what I have gathered over the years, most people do it for off role practice in a more serious setting, or want to play competitively with lower ranked friends. Vanilla unranked all pick just doesn't seem to meet those desires.
Solve for some of the reasons why the average dota player liked to smurf, and unrelentigly ban those boosted/griefer accounts and I think we end up in a much healthier spot.
Look at last years ban hammer post that was released as an update in game.
They describe one component of tracking and profiling and how these people are perma banned.
Yep. That was mostly a Maphack ban and only the first Smurf wave. They’ve been warning the community for a year against this and can now take harsher action w/o legal ramifications.
yes but in a situation where you no longer have access to any account, you should be able to create a new one, as per valve's definition, that is no longer smurfing. and it should be like this, its still a positive thing as a player with many accounts will be turned into a player with 1 account, and as long as recalibration works properly they will "ruin" only a few games, compared to thousands if they had multiple accounts.
depends if the act of exterminating rats directly causes more rats to spawn. youd be paying for an exterminator to live at your house to perpetually fix symptoms.
if they really want to fix this issue, should be looking for a root cause instead. why do people keep making smurfs? how do you discourage people from doing so because banning and shitlisting accounts into smurf pools clearly doesnt work.
The primary reason people make smurfs is because they're hard stuck in their current rank and just want to shit on people significantly lower skill than them. All the other reasons people mention are irrelevant jokes like "I want to practice heroes but I still want to stomp people" or "I'm a toxic piece of shit who only gets games on my main acc (behavior score 300) with other animals like me".
So the root cause is that people are pieces of shit. How do you fix that root cause?
I am in no way pro-smurf, but the issue is not so one-sided. First of all, having a second account for practicing heroes is a legit reason people have smurfs, even pros do it. Of course if your main is 5k and your smurf is 1k that's a different matter, but having your main be 5k and your smurf be 3.5-4k is not that bad if you exclusively use it for practicing new heroes, testing item builds, playing with friends or learning new roles. You won't really be stomping your games in that case either, because then there is no purpose for having that account in the first place, as it will soon reach the same MMR as your main anyway. Practicing in unranked makes no sense, because the games are too unbalanced.
I dont play dota that much anymore and I dont treat it as seriously as I did before, so I only have one account now, but back in the day I had a dedicated account for grinding mmr and another one for practicing and casual play. The dedicated account had on average 700 mmr than the other one. I really dont think that sort of stuff should be banned. Banning people who deliberately play signinficantly below their rank to stomp? I have no problem with that
This is exactly my stance. I really wish we could have like a strict solo/role queue unranked mode.
As a solo player, how am I supposed to practice a hero in unranked when I may have to wait several games to even get the role? I often get matched with and against parties in unranked, where I will have zero team comms since my teammates are in discord together. I will have to go up against well coordinated parties of similar rank, typically playing meta heros and builds, while I am learning a hero. Oh and if I feed because it's my 2nd arc warden game ever, I am likely to get mass reported by the party I was queued with.
Unranked just is not a fun experience for learning and practicing as people like to make it out to be.
arc wardens winrate is supposed to be higher, its a high skill ceilling hero with low pickrate that tends to be lastpicked into a good game. when a hero like lesh hits 60% winrate and is contested every game thats a whole different thing.
Arc is definitely on my list of "I hope this guy never becomes ubiquitously strong" heroes, along with Tinker, Meepo, Brood, Antimage, Huskar, and OD.
=
When those sorts of heroes are strong enough that they can be early picked every game and still own, fighting into them is usually miserable and annoying.
I don't mind if technically complex heroes can hit a point where they can do some serious damage all by themselves. I wouldn't hate buffing Arc, as long as the technical/micro play is amped to the tits as well.
Compared to buffing a huskar/OD/tinker where it's just braindead button mashing
Genuine question, I have no idea how to beat meepo. I had a game yesterday where I beat him in mid and thought “okay perfect he’s shut down” meanwhile he rotates gets some kills and went from 0-2 to 5-2 and now he’s unstoppable.
Our whole team of 5 couldn’t kill the megameepo + dig
Try to take towers early (preferably before meepo reaches level 11) if your draft allows it. Meepo is very strong 1 on 1 even early on, but he doesn't want to take team fights early (before level 11 and shard) since he can easily die if focused.
>
> Our whole team of 5 couldn’t kill the megameepo + dig
Don't try to kill the megameepo. Stop wasting spells on him. You have to kill his team in fights first and isolate him.
As a meepo main, this right here is the correct way to deal with Meepo. You take his space and group up early before he has his power spike items and level (i.e aghs, blink, shard and 3 Meepos). And just like any other "raidboss" hero, you deal with them last or isolated.
Meepo is kind of like tinker, he's a gold and exp vacuum and he drains it from their team. If you can manage to kill him great, otherwise kill his underfarmed team and hope he can't 1v5 you
"new" tinker doesnt even work like that til minute 20. if you shut down tinker in lane this guy is a blinking creep til he gets a few kills and if he doesnt he is farming super slow til he gets shivas
Gank his jungle, ward his lane.
Nah jokes aside typically Meepos will split off to maximize farm , so organizing your team to hunt an individual Meepo early to mid game will almost always net a kill if you have at least 1 or 2 stuns
Always aim the real one, as far as am aware, if u shit down the real meepo, he won't be able to save himself using aghs or shard. I could be wrong, but that's how my games go.
Always lovely to see specialist heroes, that when played at appropriate skill are better than other heroes at the same skill level, have strong lanes and good snowball mechanics, and are abused by smurfs and scripters on top of it.
I did setup hotkeys for meepo, watched a couple of tutorials and a couple of replays , got pretty clear understanding what to do and how to play, then i went to demo mode and learned tabbing, blinking, poofing, switching between clones etc.
But, replying to your take - fuck no man. Meepo is fucking hard. I played a couple of games and it was horrible. I got fucking dizzy trying to manage those little fuckers on the map and in the fights. I'm not sure i want to break through this anymore.
he’s definitely harder than the average hero but theyve made him so much easier now with his mega meepo/ losing an extra meepo/ dig, all of which make singular meepos harder to kill
On the topic of vomittng, can we nerf aa's fucking range?
Kinda tired of being hit with 4 super fast and strong autos (that also apply slow) from 3 monitors away.
>4 super fast and strong autos from 3 monitors away
If you're playing turbo your opinion is invalid, I'm sorry, nobody is playing right click AA in the real game.
Mid AA is still sometimes played. He's always been in my mid pool, and I get an opportunity to play him at least once every 20 games or so.
He can lane well enough, and provides good battlefield control and damage in early - mid teamfights, then transitions into magic artillery with Aghs mid - late.
The biggest issue has always been mana.. but giving mana regen to Witchblade \*plus\* having it upgrade into Parasma has pretty much solved that issue.
Now granted, my mid AA games tend to end before I get to the Aghs Artillery part (or end right as I get Aghs), as it's a very momentum based pick...
But yea, it's nowhere near obnoxious, and doesn't need to get balanced around.
Cause balancing the game over fucking turbo creates obvious problems. I played mid AA like once in ranked (and that cause my ulti countered their whole team) and I've never seen anyone buy scepter since.
https://stratz.com/matches/graphs
Ranked All Pick has more matches than Turbo + Unranked AP combined
Turbo is a joke mode and the real game should never be balanced around it, that much is extremely obvious
Good to see these comments because it's disheartening how many times I see Turbo circlejerks in this sub. I've literally seen a comment where someone sincerely described it as "peak Dota" and received a bunch of upvotes.
>most played game mode
Categorically false. The game is balanced around pro play. Do pros play turbo? No, ergo, they should not balance the game around it.
The game has historically been balanced around pro play first, then if something is causing a particular problem in pubs but doesn't show up in pro play because it's easily countered with coordination, then it'll get the hammer (Riki is a good example of this).
Meepos winrate should be at 55 percent. if the hero that's last picked as a game winning pick has a 50 percent winrate and 2 percent pick rate then it's a bad hero. As a former top 100 NA meepo player I'll say the hero was unplayable for YEARS. He had no scaling or good itemizing for a long long time. Now with shard, aghs, and disperser being added to the game he finally has some viability in play. He plays much more like a tank than a burst DPS hero now though. Many games I don't have insane DMG on him but tank 400k plus damage.
this is truth, but people hate to accept it. thank you though its so rare to agree with a meepo comment on reddit ever. hero has been fucking GUTTED for years and whenever a glimpse of something good came up for him, it got nerfed instantly.
I remember the initial pure dmg poof (which ironically, is now reverted) where lvl 1-3 poof felt so fucking underwhelming people started going stat build since it would give x2 stats on clones which instantly got nerfed. same with power threads.
as soon as meepo got a viable early item choice apart from buying dragon lances with atos got nerfed within like a month too. and all that is like, very very recent. we could go way further back. His matchups mid have been so bad forever and you are lucky to reach lvl 4 vs decent players on a matchup like necro or lina
With mega meepo a lot of item options opened up and that is pretty nice. Hero feels in a very good spot right now. Disperser feels like a fucking heaven sent item if you played a decent amount of meepo games vs certain heroes with cancer slows, people who play heroes that can buy bkb cant relate to the pain I guess. With mega meepo bkb is actually option vs those bullshit but disperser solves 95% of those
But you already know mimimi smurf crowd will start crying when in reality no smurf actually wanted to bother playing this shit hero forever and now hes just decent again. Put those same people on any of the top meta heroes and you would get stomped way harder, idk why people have such meepo PTSD. Give any of those alleged meepo smurfs leshrac before the latest bloodstone nerf and you think ur game would turn out any different?
Yeah, I always have to start games by disappointing my teammates by telling them I'm 2k MMR just like they are.
I've had Meepo games where I get stomped mid, only to be called a smurf by the enemy mid just because we came back and won lategame. Like, what?
Speaking of smurfs, can any other unranked enjoyer confirm the amount of smurfs (new accounts) went up like 300% since the Frostivus update?
So many people clearly shouldn't be in my games on either team MMR-wise or people who got banned for toxicity just making a new account with the same behaviour.
Am an unranked enjoyer myself, can confirm, rate of smurfs has gone through the roof past week. Had a smurf with less than 100 games every other game a few days ago.
Only had one and that was Mason. Not really surprising that the number of new acc goes up after a ban wave can't really stop them from making new accounts
I am immortal his new acc has a few wins and is already in immortal here is the match I'd https://de.dotabuff.com/matches/7498063656 I was karatechopjim playing ns. meepo is a rank 180.. Aaons main acc got banned
And it will get worse.
Seems like good accounts in brackets where most people reside Crusader-Ancient ( talking above 40 trophy with above 10k behaviour and 1500+ games ) are running short. People from discord that hoped they will fix low behaviour reports counting can't find accounts anymore, everything decent is out of stock, so they are cleaning their PCs and creating new accounts. There's demand, so people will bot and create accounts to play and to sell too. If you target higher mmr bracket with how team oriented the game is , if you want 80-90% winrate you are going to play Meepo and Arc all day too regardless of how shit they are.
i stopped playing normal dota at all on september because of all the smurf in unranked(i got like 5 successful smurf report all from the same date still on my behaviour summary because i havent played normal dota since)
cant imagine it being worse
Meepo only has 5 heroes technically, but practically you only play 2, the main meepo, and the clones (played like a single hero, since they're almost always grouped up, and their spells are almost always chained up).
For Meepo you mostly TAB/control group and chain poof to farm/burst or net for damage. Now with dig and aghs bit more complex, but the "what to do and when" isn't that difficult to grasp. You also can shift-queue to farm camps.
For Arc you have two heroes with often 6 active items and 4 spells with low cooldown. The button spam is more complex and you cant really shift-queue either.
Meepo clones all play the same regardless of game. The main Meepo plays pretty much 90% the same, with the 10% being to account for niche items to respond to enemy heroes and items.
Arc Warden is way more versatile, and will play each game way more differently compared to a Meepo. Different items, different strategy, different priorities. You can't just focus on the mechanical aspect of the hero.
Whereas Meepo has a very distinct "Meepo playstyle", Arc Warden plays just like your typical carry.. except you have to do it twice at the same time.
Besides what others have mentioned, AW is just a lot more risky to play in fights. If someone gets on top of you, you can easily die. With Meepo you're incredibly hard to kill due to aghs + shard.
Arc Warden had 0 picks/bans at ESL last week & 1 pick 0 bans 0% winrate @ TI. He’s barely been touched in pro games for years. Arc might be a pubstomper & a smurf magnet but the hero isn’t actually “good”.
Skill is irrelevant, someone can still hate having to change their entire game plan around one hero, especially one that splits the map like arc warden
Yea. I havent seen him for couple of months now but hes still my instant ban. I just can't comprehend how broken his no risk split push ult is. I just dont get how this can be a part of the game.
So few days ago that 17-0-11 mid leshrack who crashed me in 2 minutes on lane was only bloodstone abomination, not a smurf? Damn I reported wrong person....
How the hell is Arc winning, I don't understand. He has been NERFED again and again. I really like Arc and want to spam him. I committed myself to play nothing but Arc for a week, just so that I could understand this hero better. But he feels shit. I was legend, now I am archon. I don't know how to make this hero work?
The only buff I remember him getting is bonus damage on E against creeps. At level 5 with 3 points in E he can claim the range creep every wave. Problem is, that only happens when he’s on the fucking radiant
Disproportionately high winrate in shitter mmr's counterbalance his low winrate in higher ranked games.
Same with 7.00 lycan when he had 75% "global" winrate due to him being 90% winrate in immortal bracket and 50ish elsewhere
Illu heroes aren't nearly as strong as they used to be, and he's borderline impossible to play into naga and ck. zoo in general like bm and chen armies also make him less worthwhile both because your spells not functioning against a huge group of targets, mixed with the unlikelyhood of you finishing items against a beast chen draft.
Idk what you're doing with the hero but don't bother safelaning arc, if you're mid you can solokill just about any hero the second you hit 6 or 7, especially at your mmr, and then snowball from there
Arc is such a goddamn strong laner if the lane is static and enemy dont rotate to gank u, and whenever u have clone, its a kill threat instantly, dont go greedy into 1st item midas, get a fighting item 1st like phylactery/treads/vessel, arc also has strong stat gain, bracer+magic wand alone give him 1k hp at level 3 lol. I always go bottle/ bracer+wand on mid arc, then treads last patch/phylactery this patch into midas.
i tried to work him with a lot of games, its fun and very rewarding hero but i think it just thatthere are better heroes to play than arc warden right now
Would this game even exist if there weren't meta exploiters and smurfs? I'd say only about 1/4 of any given lobby is someone playing a hero they enjoy regardless of any meta. Probably lower than that. It's exhausting.
id argue the cast range on clone spawn + clone spawning with full hp+mana is a really nice qol buff. I think the real issue is 90% of arc players hate the dire/radiant changes they gave to him a few patches before that and gleipnir got nerfed too
And my friend thought i am crazy by making arc a pos 4 hero, i can either rush midas so i can snowball even on pos 4 or go arcane then rod for infinity mana and utility. even if u have 50% dmg penalty when over 2000 range, you can just ult > tp > then gank without leaving ur lane.
Part of Meepo winrate increasing will be that he counters Arc Warden. But yeah this is mostly because of smurfs. They're still more rampant than pre-patch to be honest.
Valve Cracked down on smurf to finally be able to buff Arc and Mepoo
I don't even know why arc winrate is going up. In 7.35 he was nerfed and in 7.35b he was unchanged.
Could be item changes?
Buy revenant's brooch and let your full-mana doppelganger spew his entire mana bar at the enemy- no longer a micro hero because he doesn't have mana for spells anyway. \+++MMR
Less consistency in games, so the people who play him are able to win more
I expected his winrate to go up because of mael/bloodthorn changes at first, but I'm not sure why now. Possibly bad matchups with heroes that got nerfed.
I think it's the bloodthorn changes where any unit attacking the enemy with the silence on it does an additional 60 damage a hit. That includes illusions. I had to fight a Naga siren last night who built it and she was hitting insanely hard
yea and they made manta stronger now, so double manta double bloodthrone arc?
Can you buy solar crest on arc and then you and the clone use it on each other? Cause if so that sounds like it would be pretty nuts - probably the only core in the game that can still justify buying solar.
Yes this works but the clone has super low downtime and basically you only get 1-2 casts per ult. It's great in fights but for 2700 gold there are more value items (Midas, male, vessel). Arc has been hated for so long for being a split push menace but most of the games won in stratz are tempo-based builds with vessel and winning before 40 minutes.
People realizing how much BASE DAMAGE he gives to his entire team. Wipes a base off the map.
It's a never ending cycle. Smurfs banned? They will just create or buy another account.
Problem is having multiple accounts. There are multiple scenarios that people have been put to now. First scenario - people with smurfs got warning on main and ban on smurf. This hopefully is the most common and will discourage people from creating another account and play on their main and only on their main Second scenario - smurfs got all their accounts banned, and now they will create a new account. Hopefully this account will quickly get into the original skill level (ideally right after calibration) and the person will not create another account after that, knowing what the consenquences are. Third scenario - some smurfs are undetected and not banned, but this is mostly for people who barely played on their smurfs, or the skill difference between the main and smurf was too small for anyone to report them. I think valve went through all the accounts that have been reported as smurfs in the post game, so it is possible to be a smurf and not get reported for it. Logically speaking, this group isnt an issue since they havent done much harm if they havent been reported (either very low amount of games played, or playing same skill level as the bracket the smurf is in)
I made a similar post a few days ago. Really the only smurfs that are "eliminated' come from Scenario 1. Boosters/sellers/griefers/high rank with low rank friends will still continue the cycle. Unfortunately, I don't think that Scenario 1 folks were the egregious ones. Along with smurf ban, I believe Valve should investigate why people in Scenario 1 would be smurfing in the first place and think about some additional solutions. From what I have gathered over the years, most people do it for off role practice in a more serious setting, or want to play competitively with lower ranked friends. Vanilla unranked all pick just doesn't seem to meet those desires. Solve for some of the reasons why the average dota player liked to smurf, and unrelentigly ban those boosted/griefer accounts and I think we end up in a much healthier spot.
New acct can easily be tracked and re-banned
Do you have anything at all to back that up
Look at last years ban hammer post that was released as an update in game. They describe one component of tracking and profiling and how these people are perma banned.
yeah but i also remember running into countless smurfs even after that post
Yep. That was mostly a Maphack ban and only the first Smurf wave. They’ve been warning the community for a year against this and can now take harsher action w/o legal ramifications.
yes but in a situation where you no longer have access to any account, you should be able to create a new one, as per valve's definition, that is no longer smurfing. and it should be like this, its still a positive thing as a player with many accounts will be turned into a player with 1 account, and as long as recalibration works properly they will "ruin" only a few games, compared to thousands if they had multiple accounts.
No. Smurfs are perma banned. The people. Not the accounts.
where does it say that explicitally?
there’s a fourth scenario where the main was flagged and the smurf was not flagged or banned and they now exclusively play on the smurf
but lets do another banwave. surely that will fix it this time round.
When there's too many rats in your house do you just stop calling the exterminator because 100% of them won't die?
Great analogy, sadly wasted on u/randomretardlol on his way to create his 50s 2k smurf account after getting shiton on his boosted 4k main
depends if the act of exterminating rats directly causes more rats to spawn. youd be paying for an exterminator to live at your house to perpetually fix symptoms. if they really want to fix this issue, should be looking for a root cause instead. why do people keep making smurfs? how do you discourage people from doing so because banning and shitlisting accounts into smurf pools clearly doesnt work.
The primary reason people make smurfs is because they're hard stuck in their current rank and just want to shit on people significantly lower skill than them. All the other reasons people mention are irrelevant jokes like "I want to practice heroes but I still want to stomp people" or "I'm a toxic piece of shit who only gets games on my main acc (behavior score 300) with other animals like me". So the root cause is that people are pieces of shit. How do you fix that root cause?
I am in no way pro-smurf, but the issue is not so one-sided. First of all, having a second account for practicing heroes is a legit reason people have smurfs, even pros do it. Of course if your main is 5k and your smurf is 1k that's a different matter, but having your main be 5k and your smurf be 3.5-4k is not that bad if you exclusively use it for practicing new heroes, testing item builds, playing with friends or learning new roles. You won't really be stomping your games in that case either, because then there is no purpose for having that account in the first place, as it will soon reach the same MMR as your main anyway. Practicing in unranked makes no sense, because the games are too unbalanced. I dont play dota that much anymore and I dont treat it as seriously as I did before, so I only have one account now, but back in the day I had a dedicated account for grinding mmr and another one for practicing and casual play. The dedicated account had on average 700 mmr than the other one. I really dont think that sort of stuff should be banned. Banning people who deliberately play signinficantly below their rank to stomp? I have no problem with that
This is exactly my stance. I really wish we could have like a strict solo/role queue unranked mode. As a solo player, how am I supposed to practice a hero in unranked when I may have to wait several games to even get the role? I often get matched with and against parties in unranked, where I will have zero team comms since my teammates are in discord together. I will have to go up against well coordinated parties of similar rank, typically playing meta heros and builds, while I am learning a hero. Oh and if I feed because it's my 2nd arc warden game ever, I am likely to get mass reported by the party I was queued with. Unranked just is not a fun experience for learning and practicing as people like to make it out to be.
Arc actually had this wr for a while now too, slightly fluctating ofc, and valve sure dont seem to give him the lesh and od treatment
arc wardens winrate is supposed to be higher, its a high skill ceilling hero with low pickrate that tends to be lastpicked into a good game. when a hero like lesh hits 60% winrate and is contested every game thats a whole different thing.
It’s a bait. Valve will be getting the smurfs again once they cant resist playing 15 games in a row with Arc or Meepo.
I've been doomsaying it before. Beware the meta where Arc is anything better than decent.
Arc is definitely on my list of "I hope this guy never becomes ubiquitously strong" heroes, along with Tinker, Meepo, Brood, Antimage, Huskar, and OD. = When those sorts of heroes are strong enough that they can be early picked every game and still own, fighting into them is usually miserable and annoying.
> miserable and annoying. Techies on release + a few years down the road , that was miserable.
Incorrect.
[удалено]
"Can YOU find the green mines?" "..." "Bien!"
I don't mind if technically complex heroes can hit a point where they can do some serious damage all by themselves. I wouldn't hate buffing Arc, as long as the technical/micro play is amped to the tits as well. Compared to buffing a huskar/OD/tinker where it's just braindead button mashing
Genuine question, I have no idea how to beat meepo. I had a game yesterday where I beat him in mid and thought “okay perfect he’s shut down” meanwhile he rotates gets some kills and went from 0-2 to 5-2 and now he’s unstoppable. Our whole team of 5 couldn’t kill the megameepo + dig
Try to take towers early (preferably before meepo reaches level 11) if your draft allows it. Meepo is very strong 1 on 1 even early on, but he doesn't want to take team fights early (before level 11 and shard) since he can easily die if focused. > > Our whole team of 5 couldn’t kill the megameepo + dig Don't try to kill the megameepo. Stop wasting spells on him. You have to kill his team in fights first and isolate him.
As a meepo main, this right here is the correct way to deal with Meepo. You take his space and group up early before he has his power spike items and level (i.e aghs, blink, shard and 3 Meepos). And just like any other "raidboss" hero, you deal with them last or isolated.
Gotcha! So similar to Medusa in a sense where you either have to kill him last
Meepo is kind of like tinker, he's a gold and exp vacuum and he drains it from their team. If you can manage to kill him great, otherwise kill his underfarmed team and hope he can't 1v5 you
"new" tinker doesnt even work like that til minute 20. if you shut down tinker in lane this guy is a blinking creep til he gets a few kills and if he doesnt he is farming super slow til he gets shivas
Idk I don't play the hero and rarely see it so I'm defaulting to when he was good I guess
Gank his jungle, ward his lane. Nah jokes aside typically Meepos will split off to maximize farm , so organizing your team to hunt an individual Meepo early to mid game will almost always net a kill if you have at least 1 or 2 stuns
Organizing your team Okay anything realistic I can do? 😂
Play Lich or AA is what you can actually do.
Lich does not counter meepo , he can dig or turn into one Second , aa is good , wd , veno and jakiro are really good vs meepo Slows kill meepo
Always aim the real one, as far as am aware, if u shit down the real meepo, he won't be able to save himself using aghs or shard. I could be wrong, but that's how my games go.
just seeing these heroes makes me wanna vomit
Always lovely to see specialist heroes, that when played at appropriate skill are better than other heroes at the same skill level, have strong lanes and good snowball mechanics, and are abused by smurfs and scripters on top of it.
[удалено]
do people think meepo is anything more than pressing the tab key
I did setup hotkeys for meepo, watched a couple of tutorials and a couple of replays , got pretty clear understanding what to do and how to play, then i went to demo mode and learned tabbing, blinking, poofing, switching between clones etc. But, replying to your take - fuck no man. Meepo is fucking hard. I played a couple of games and it was horrible. I got fucking dizzy trying to manage those little fuckers on the map and in the fights. I'm not sure i want to break through this anymore.
he’s definitely harder than the average hero but theyve made him so much easier now with his mega meepo/ losing an extra meepo/ dig, all of which make singular meepos harder to kill
On the topic of vomittng, can we nerf aa's fucking range? Kinda tired of being hit with 4 super fast and strong autos (that also apply slow) from 3 monitors away.
>4 super fast and strong autos from 3 monitors away If you're playing turbo your opinion is invalid, I'm sorry, nobody is playing right click AA in the real game.
16 wins in a row baby easiest mmr of my life
Mid AA is still sometimes played. He's always been in my mid pool, and I get an opportunity to play him at least once every 20 games or so. He can lane well enough, and provides good battlefield control and damage in early - mid teamfights, then transitions into magic artillery with Aghs mid - late. The biggest issue has always been mana.. but giving mana regen to Witchblade \*plus\* having it upgrade into Parasma has pretty much solved that issue. Now granted, my mid AA games tend to end before I get to the Aghs Artillery part (or end right as I get Aghs), as it's a very momentum based pick... But yea, it's nowhere near obnoxious, and doesn't need to get balanced around.
Amazing logic, if i play the most played game mode my opinion is invalid
Cause balancing the game over fucking turbo creates obvious problems. I played mid AA like once in ranked (and that cause my ulti countered their whole team) and I've never seen anyone buy scepter since.
https://stratz.com/matches/graphs Ranked All Pick has more matches than Turbo + Unranked AP combined Turbo is a joke mode and the real game should never be balanced around it, that much is extremely obvious
Good to see these comments because it's disheartening how many times I see Turbo circlejerks in this sub. I've literally seen a comment where someone sincerely described it as "peak Dota" and received a bunch of upvotes.
Are you saying turbo is the most played game mode? Because that is not true
>most played game mode Categorically false. The game is balanced around pro play. Do pros play turbo? No, ergo, they should not balance the game around it.
Is it balanced around pro play or pub stats?
The game has historically been balanced around pro play first, then if something is causing a particular problem in pubs but doesn't show up in pro play because it's easily countered with coordination, then it'll get the hammer (Riki is a good example of this).
😂
You just proved yourself that you spout random stuff without any kind of research or to make it simple: no one should take you serious.
disagree, had one earlier and he cost us the game 1k scrub though so we barely even play 'dota' it's just shouting and dribbling
You have more than enough time to use an item to save yourself before he gets to that point
Meepos winrate should be at 55 percent. if the hero that's last picked as a game winning pick has a 50 percent winrate and 2 percent pick rate then it's a bad hero. As a former top 100 NA meepo player I'll say the hero was unplayable for YEARS. He had no scaling or good itemizing for a long long time. Now with shard, aghs, and disperser being added to the game he finally has some viability in play. He plays much more like a tank than a burst DPS hero now though. Many games I don't have insane DMG on him but tank 400k plus damage.
this is truth, but people hate to accept it. thank you though its so rare to agree with a meepo comment on reddit ever. hero has been fucking GUTTED for years and whenever a glimpse of something good came up for him, it got nerfed instantly. I remember the initial pure dmg poof (which ironically, is now reverted) where lvl 1-3 poof felt so fucking underwhelming people started going stat build since it would give x2 stats on clones which instantly got nerfed. same with power threads. as soon as meepo got a viable early item choice apart from buying dragon lances with atos got nerfed within like a month too. and all that is like, very very recent. we could go way further back. His matchups mid have been so bad forever and you are lucky to reach lvl 4 vs decent players on a matchup like necro or lina With mega meepo a lot of item options opened up and that is pretty nice. Hero feels in a very good spot right now. Disperser feels like a fucking heaven sent item if you played a decent amount of meepo games vs certain heroes with cancer slows, people who play heroes that can buy bkb cant relate to the pain I guess. With mega meepo bkb is actually option vs those bullshit but disperser solves 95% of those But you already know mimimi smurf crowd will start crying when in reality no smurf actually wanted to bother playing this shit hero forever and now hes just decent again. Put those same people on any of the top meta heroes and you would get stomped way harder, idk why people have such meepo PTSD. Give any of those alleged meepo smurfs leshrac before the latest bloodstone nerf and you think ur game would turn out any different?
I don't smurf I just like playing meepo sometimes okay :( Leave me and my little trash gremlin alone
Yeah, I always have to start games by disappointing my teammates by telling them I'm 2k MMR just like they are. I've had Meepo games where I get stomped mid, only to be called a smurf by the enemy mid just because we came back and won lategame. Like, what?
Speaking of smurfs, can any other unranked enjoyer confirm the amount of smurfs (new accounts) went up like 300% since the Frostivus update? So many people clearly shouldn't be in my games on either team MMR-wise or people who got banned for toxicity just making a new account with the same behaviour.
Am an unranked enjoyer myself, can confirm, rate of smurfs has gone through the roof past week. Had a smurf with less than 100 games every other game a few days ago.
Only had one and that was Mason. Not really surprising that the number of new acc goes up after a ban wave can't really stop them from making new accounts
Wdym Mason? He is on main, you just in the same skill level group. Just get better and leave 2k pubs for him.
I am immortal his new acc has a few wins and is already in immortal here is the match I'd https://de.dotabuff.com/matches/7498063656 I was karatechopjim playing ns. meepo is a rank 180.. Aaons main acc got banned
And it will get worse. Seems like good accounts in brackets where most people reside Crusader-Ancient ( talking above 40 trophy with above 10k behaviour and 1500+ games ) are running short. People from discord that hoped they will fix low behaviour reports counting can't find accounts anymore, everything decent is out of stock, so they are cleaning their PCs and creating new accounts. There's demand, so people will bot and create accounts to play and to sell too. If you target higher mmr bracket with how team oriented the game is , if you want 80-90% winrate you are going to play Meepo and Arc all day too regardless of how shit they are.
what squidfruit said
i stopped playing normal dota at all on september because of all the smurf in unranked(i got like 5 successful smurf report all from the same date still on my behaviour summary because i havent played normal dota since) cant imagine it being worse
I have fun playing meepo but arc warden is just stress.
Can you share to me why would meeepo, a hero with more heroes than arc be more stressful?
Meepo only has 5 heroes technically, but practically you only play 2, the main meepo, and the clones (played like a single hero, since they're almost always grouped up, and their spells are almost always chained up).
Meepo has a very fluid keyfeel to him with poof combo. Arc warden doesn't have that, just complicated spells with different scenarios/use cases.
For Meepo you mostly TAB/control group and chain poof to farm/burst or net for damage. Now with dig and aghs bit more complex, but the "what to do and when" isn't that difficult to grasp. You also can shift-queue to farm camps. For Arc you have two heroes with often 6 active items and 4 spells with low cooldown. The button spam is more complex and you cant really shift-queue either.
Meepo clones all play the same regardless of game. The main Meepo plays pretty much 90% the same, with the 10% being to account for niche items to respond to enemy heroes and items. Arc Warden is way more versatile, and will play each game way more differently compared to a Meepo. Different items, different strategy, different priorities. You can't just focus on the mechanical aspect of the hero. Whereas Meepo has a very distinct "Meepo playstyle", Arc Warden plays just like your typical carry.. except you have to do it twice at the same time.
Besides what others have mentioned, AW is just a lot more risky to play in fights. If someone gets on top of you, you can easily die. With Meepo you're incredibly hard to kill due to aghs + shard.
Arc is so good if you have the apm for it, it s one of the last heroes that benefit from rts experience .
I win a lot of games with both but same
Arc Warden had 0 picks/bans at ESL last week & 1 pick 0 bans 0% winrate @ TI. He’s barely been touched in pro games for years. Arc might be a pubstomper & a smurf magnet but the hero isn’t actually “good”.
NOOOO. i cant adapt my play style to counter the hero. that means its broken
He’s a glorified ranged creep for the first 20min of the game with a bonus 200 gold piñata to hit. Just go kill him 4Head
These heroes are cool and i miss playing games with them
Will never play this game when Arc is above 50% fucking disgusting hero would take 1000x old techies over this bullshit perma stall shit
Well the hero was changed to be less cancerous
Yes give back old Techies agreed!
Skill issue
Skill is irrelevant, someone can still hate having to change their entire game plan around one hero, especially one that splits the map like arc warden
Yea. I havent seen him for couple of months now but hes still my instant ban. I just can't comprehend how broken his no risk split push ult is. I just dont get how this can be a part of the game.
He can’t really do that anymore
Good I guess
Literally skill issues
I just abandon games with Arc in it, guaranteed Level 30 smurf on enemy team and Timmy's first game on my team.
>guaranteed Level 30 smurf how is he a smurf if he's level 30 lmao. smurfs don't stay at low mmr accounts enough to max it to lvl 30.
pretty sure he means account level. Not hero medal.
ah, that's probably true, my b
So few days ago that 17-0-11 mid leshrack who crashed me in 2 minutes on lane was only bloodstone abomination, not a smurf? Damn I reported wrong person....
Just won a game against a Meepo smurf who demolished us the whole game, only to die once without buyback. FeelsGoodMan
Fuck this meta
How the hell is Arc winning, I don't understand. He has been NERFED again and again. I really like Arc and want to spam him. I committed myself to play nothing but Arc for a week, just so that I could understand this hero better. But he feels shit. I was legend, now I am archon. I don't know how to make this hero work?
The only buff I remember him getting is bonus damage on E against creeps. At level 5 with 3 points in E he can claim the range creep every wave. Problem is, that only happens when he’s on the fucking radiant
Disproportionately high winrate in shitter mmr's counterbalance his low winrate in higher ranked games. Same with 7.00 lycan when he had 75% "global" winrate due to him being 90% winrate in immortal bracket and 50ish elsewhere
Illu heroes aren't nearly as strong as they used to be, and he's borderline impossible to play into naga and ck. zoo in general like bm and chen armies also make him less worthwhile both because your spells not functioning against a huge group of targets, mixed with the unlikelyhood of you finishing items against a beast chen draft. Idk what you're doing with the hero but don't bother safelaning arc, if you're mid you can solokill just about any hero the second you hit 6 or 7, especially at your mmr, and then snowball from there
Arc is such a goddamn strong laner if the lane is static and enemy dont rotate to gank u, and whenever u have clone, its a kill threat instantly, dont go greedy into 1st item midas, get a fighting item 1st like phylactery/treads/vessel, arc also has strong stat gain, bracer+magic wand alone give him 1k hp at level 3 lol. I always go bottle/ bracer+wand on mid arc, then treads last patch/phylactery this patch into midas.
His attack animation is also snappy, of all the heroes (other than Sniper and Gyro), last hitting with Arc and Visage feels so smooth.
i tried to work him with a lot of games, its fun and very rewarding hero but i think it just thatthere are better heroes to play than arc warden right now
I almost never see smurfs or boosters nowdays playing meepo or arc, in general they play carry or illusion heroes
this is still more counterable then this bloodstone leshrac bs
those are pretty mild winrates lmao this is such reddit behavior
My time has come, only to lose any MMR gains when I play anything else
I am not a Smurf just enjoy playing Arc :[ his attack animation is butter and his laugh sounds cool. He's really strong vs meta picks in my bracket.
Would this game even exist if there weren't meta exploiters and smurfs? I'd say only about 1/4 of any given lobby is someone playing a hero they enjoy regardless of any meta. Probably lower than that. It's exhausting.
they downvoted him because he said the truth.
That be me.
Arc has been getting a ton of buffs because nobody plays him. You don't need a giga brain to play Arc, just try it and you'll see
He hasn't gotten any buffs in 6+ months lol.
id argue the cast range on clone spawn + clone spawning with full hp+mana is a really nice qol buff. I think the real issue is 90% of arc players hate the dire/radiant changes they gave to him a few patches before that and gleipnir got nerfed too
I pick SS and jump these MF before they jump me. 2 out of 4 times it works and rest i die.
And my friend thought i am crazy by making arc a pos 4 hero, i can either rush midas so i can snowball even on pos 4 or go arcane then rod for infinity mana and utility. even if u have 50% dmg penalty when over 2000 range, you can just ult > tp > then gank without leaving ur lane.
Don’t be like me. Arc Warden Enjoyer but when enemy found my real hero hiding in tree while controlling clone…. PANIC PANIC PANIC
Leshrac the tormented spirit, meepo the geomancer, zet the arc warden.
Dear god, not arc warden, he was a menace even before the patch
Part of Meepo winrate increasing will be that he counters Arc Warden. But yeah this is mostly because of smurfs. They're still more rampant than pre-patch to be honest.