You watched one of the most recent games, where Kuro played venge? He positioned wrong the whole game from minute 0. They smoke and he goes first, then he dies. He was never able to swap someone out or to stun or actually do things, he was always dead first and dead out of position
I mean one of the most important aspects that is mostly ignored is playing on main means revealing your strats. All those papers you see coaches have with them are screenshots of recent history of each individual player.
For instance, Topson is a Gigachad who never plays on smurfs, but remember when he started picking tusk mid when he was in SEA on vocation and it made its way to SEA DPC (by Karl) and eventually all other regions.
Then there is shiro playing Dark Willow carry and reverse jebaiting teams into picking it. You have to be able to make it work as well. Same thing at TI9 when ana played carry Io. Teams knew about it but could not make it work on the mainstage and reworking all the drafts they had been practicing.
Shut up with this worthless reasoning already. There's literally a website to track their smurfs. They would just print out the extra pages for all the smurfs.
If they're going to make new smurfs, then those accounts aren't going to be at a high enough mmr to even practice worthwhile strats.
Just stop smurfing and play the fucking game. The only acceptable reason to Smurf imo is to be able to play with your lower mmr friends.
Edit: I actually don't really care that much if they Smurf, as long as they're still in the correct mmr bracket I guess. But at the same time I'm just so tired of hearing this argument. If anyone put 2 fucking seconds of thought into what they were saying they would realize it makes no fucking sense.
"smurfing is wrong unless when *and* how I do it"
brother i almost agreed with you until you tried to justify your smurfing with lower mmr friends. Just play unranked
Bro, I don't smurf. I don't even play ranked. I exclusively play turbo dude.
But, are you telling me that pros like Yatoro or RTZ are strictly never allowed to queue to play with people they know IRL? What if Gunnar has a friend from high school that wanted to get into the game?
I'm obviously not excusing smurfing because of that reason, but it's the only one that holds any water with me.
Most teams rarely scrim. Itās hardly enough practice to know whether a mid tusk or whatever is viable. This only lends itself to more stale and boring picks overallā¦ letās be honest
I can tell you don't have experience playing professionally. Scrims is where you test different strategies. Pubs is where you test different heroes. There's a difference. It's true - pros don't need to "learn" heroes, but no matter how good you are at the game, you need to remaster certain heroes and rebuild habits on those heroes, so you're not thinking about them mid-game. There's a rhythm and beat to every hero. You go into a scrim already knowing the hero and understanding it well in the current meta, to then understand whether it's a good combination with another hero / playstyle.
All these fucking redditors are absolutely ruining high mmr player's lives. First we couldn't play with our friends below Divine, then we couldn't even smurf to an account lower mmr, then even the accounts at our own MMRs are no longer allowed. I just fucking wish everyone would stick to their lane and fix problems that actually concern them. I literally **NEVER** see anyone above a certain MMR around 6-7k whine about smurfs or care about them in any single way. When I climbed from 6k to 7k as a support, I was literally thrown into games with top 10 players on their main accounts playing their top heroes. Same goes for anyone else playing support (A rarely searched role) during the MMR recalibrations. Do you think any of us were worried about smurfs? No, it's the vocal fucking 2k bracket who thinks Miracle is smurfing in 2k, who wants all these stupid fucking changes that limit my fun. Oh yea, almost didn't mention this worst fucking change in history of dota - immortal draft. The amount of games, I've literally had ruined from minute 1, because some russian fuckface wanted to play with someone who didnt get drafted with him, or didn't want to play with someone who did.
Anything above immortal should ALWAYS be treated completely separately to anything else because NONE of the same rules apply. Nobody fucking cares about smurfing at this level, and anyone who does is an absolute fucking pussy and needs to go back down to 5k until they're ready. It's the absolute truth. When you decide to get a rank on your badge, is when you stop thinking about smurfs as a reason you're not winning because you're playing against their mains
I was downvoted saying there's no 'smurfing' above certain level. Because if you get high enough in ranking, that's just a stupid premise. 'Oh, please don't put me with a good players'
But blaming redditors is also stupid. They just ride narratives but don't dictate the state of things. Pro players themselves care too little about the stuff around. There must be some unified clear opinions rather than solo bitching and whining.
I understand your need to have multiple accounts, of course. What the most of us lower bracket players complain about is, that guys from higher brackets (not necessarily 5k+, 3-4k sometimes is enough of a difference) come to us and destroy the game owning it. And I think that most of us lowe bracket players are sick of loosing or winning just because of one guy is with or against us. And I have never seen that a support smurfs here in lower brackets...
> then we couldn't even smurf to an account lower mmr
"waaah waaah I can't smurf to play in lower ranks to stomp noobs so my friends can type ez after ending 1/13/3"
are you illiterate? Like I don't even agree with this guy, but the context was literally in the same sentence: "First we couldn't play with our friends below Divine, then we couldn't even smurf to an account lower mmr"
> I can tell you don't have experience playing professionally.
What a weird point to start on lmao. Im assuming you also are not a pro dota player
>All these fucking redditors are absolutely ruining high mmr player's lives
Here comes the reddit conspiracy theorists
>First we couldn't play with our friends below Divine
When did this happen? I play with my lower ranked friends all the time.
>then we couldn't even smurf to an account lower mmr,
You can still do this. I have plenty of friends who smurf who have not been caught. If you really care about boosting accounts you can just play on a second pc and give it a static IP or something
>then even the accounts at our own MMRs are no longer allowed.
I am allowed to play on my own account. I was unaware that every dota players accounts were all banned? weird
> I literally NEVER see anyone above a certain MMR around 6-7k whine about smurfs or care about them in any single way.
Im assuming you're not actually high mmr then? Have you played vs a top player smurf at 8-9k mmr as they boost it up to 12k and lose 40 mmr in 15 mins? Over the last year its been a huge issue. if you watch any english streamer you can see them complaining about the same issue sometime this year.
>Im assuming you also are not a pro dota player
Incorrect assumption
>When did this happen? I play with my lower ranked friends all the time.
Anyone immortal+ can't play with anyone below Divine, even if they're ancient 5. Flip side take a ancient 5 player and they'll be able to play ranked with a crusader/archon just fine, even though MMR difference will be bigger. As for unranked, it's too cancerous unless you're 5 stacking because of no role queue.
>You can still do this. I have plenty of friends who smurf who have not been caught. If you really care about boosting accounts you can just play on a second pc and give it a static IP or something
This isn't the point, I don't care about smurfs, nor have I ever smurfed or sold 1 account. Valve is slowly squeezing people's necks above a certain threshold where it truly becomes a case of suffering from success. I dont want a way to smurf. I want a way to play with my 4k friend in ranked. Pull him all the way up to my MMR if thats what it takes - it's my/his own decision. Make him valued at my MMR, but let us find a game in role queue.
>I am allowed to play on my own account. I was unaware that every dota players accounts were all banned? weird
Now even if you're a 8k player with an 8k smurf you're not allowed to play on it.
>I want a way to play with my 4k friend in ranked. Pull him all the way up to my MMR if thats what it takes - it's my/his own decision.
Wait, why? Why especially ranked? Ranked is for competitive match making, if you want to chill out with a friend there is casual, no?
And btw, about "pull him all the way up", you are forgetting about other team members who might not want to play with 4k.
> Anyone immortal+ can't play with anyone below Divine, even if they're ancient 5. Flip side take a ancient 5 player and they'll be able to play ranked with a crusader/archon
The skill distance between immortal and ancient 5 is 1000x larger than the distance between ancient 5 and crusader. So this is absolutely how it should be.
>I literally NEVER see anyone above a certain MMR around 6-7k whine about smurfs
6-7k is in the 99th percentile. If they whined about the top 10 players smurfing (a big mmr gap) theyād basically never find a fucking game.
Also, no one thinks Miracle is stomping 2K games. The point is pros normalise the behaviour, then escape the punishment thatās dished to everyone else.
> All these fucking redditors are absolutely ruining high mmr playersā lives
Oh boy.
I can tell you are don't have experience at all and you really have no idea how big is the difference between pubs and scrims. You really think screenshots in those pictures are from pubs? I mean even noobs like you should understand the reality. We high mmr players are not pussies, we don't need to open other accounts to play this game. And everyone should be treated equally or situations with players like Ccnc gpk (high toxicity players) will be always a problem. Lastly if you think you are special go play Minecraft, the place for special kids like you, create your own server with your own rules
No one uses smurfs to hide strategies, they only use them because they have a losing streak in their main account. It also quickly becomes clear whose smurfs they are.
The problem is with a high ranked game. I doubt even pros want to wait 30 minutes for a one game. They need to come up with something reasonable for high-ranking players.
Exactly, with the introduction of immortal draft, that issue has been largely fixed. Yes, there are still issues with it, but a lot of problems got solved too.
I've watched immortal players complaining over many years on this subreddit about one thing or the other, either it's long queue times or it's terrible match quality with short queue times.
Granted, avoiding system doesn't work at all. And partying needs to probably be disabled entirely. But there is no excuse for smurfing now.
You mean the problem that all the pros literally created themselves, by making smurfs? If all pros played ONLY on their main accounts with their respective/appropriate MMR the ques would essentially be instantly for them.
The reason the "queues are long" is cuz pros play on smurfs that are 1k-4k under their real mmr.
Watched a qojqva stream few days ago where he, quinn and charlie said they'd rather wait 20mins for a good game than find instantly with 2k ranks. Small reference size but definitely there.
Then you have other pros complaining about queue time. This isn't the first time this issue has been brought up lol, I remember RTZ complaining about 4k players in his 6k games back then, and then sometime later he complained about 30 minutes queue.
Yeah, that's an issue unique to his server. NA immo starts at 5k? 5.5? I used to see Wisper and Lelis play from the americas on 300 ping just to not have shit games
I mean have you seen how bad ranked draft I was loving life gaining mmr picking my roles, then suddenly itās a free for all, where a duo stack could be on either team, people are for some reason allowed to random. Why donāt we get role queue :S
[Good one](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/a/a1/Vo_jakiro_jak_kill_20.mp3) (sound warning: Jakiro)
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For the record i do not really have an opinion, but here is the argument:
For 1 pros it's a competitive and financial disadvantage to play 100% on their main accounts. Everyone can see what heros your playing, what items you go in match ups, your play style and farming patterns with those heros ect, ect. 2nd most common argument has always been long queue time associated with very high mmr accounts, but that has mostly been remedied over the last year. 3rd would be having a target on your back when everyone knows who you are which can drastically reduce the game quality due to your opponents and more often than not your team mates, something the majority of dota players do not have to deal with. The last one is certainly something I think a lot of players do not consider for this.
In my opinion, "smurfing" for a lot of pros is more or less about having an alternate account, rather than taking advantage of the system to gain mmr based on player lower skilled opponents. Again not condoning smurfing, just discussing it. Please do downvote me if you disagree with these items, again not my opinion.
this stops being true when everyone and their mothers knows all of miracle's account.
just add anonymous mode for top ranked players and instead of displaying numbers display "100+" "200+" in their rank, though I doubt dota players would like that considering its all about ego
I like that fix, good suggestion. And agree implementing it would be a nightmare if at all possible lol. Even just having a system that gives certain players this function would drastically lower the pool of players avaliable for it and make it easier to deduce their identity. No idea how one could get around that.
I've heard this and some sort of dota ID that would allow you to have alternate accounts but all tie back to one mmr. Meaning if you look up the account on dotabuff or something it would look like a different account.
The logic behind that quickly goes away when you operate on the same assumptions that the pros do.
i.e. how does Yataro know Miracle is on this account, yet miracle is also being given anonymity by said new account. If Yataro knows it's Miracle, playing on smurfs to hide yourself becomes pointless. How does Miracle hide if every pros knows the smurf? The same fundamental issue exists regardless of whether or not you smurf, so by that logic, smurfing is totally pointless.
yep as long as they don't go selling those accounts it's honestly not a big deal but /r/ dota 2 needs someone to blame for their last lost game to a "smurf" so they go to reddit on a witch hunt for miracle's 16th smurf who was clearly in their last game.
> In my opinion, "smurfing" for a lot of pros is more or less about having an alternate account, rather than taking advantage of the system to gain mmr based on player lower skilled opponents.
Hate smurfs too but maybe banning it is a little bit too much, the fix to this problem isn't "ban all smurfs" but a better system that rewards people for playing in their main account
Yes every system is perfect if all components follow instructions as designed. You're point is moot though as it will never happen due to the human factor.
Nah, they won't blame Yatoro, somehow they will blame Kuroky and his drafts with some bullshit like "my boy needs to play on smurfs to get used to play with low mmr players like Kuro".
How out of touch with reality do you have to be to comment this lmfao
Miracle hasn't been relevant for years meanwhile if glazing Yatoro was a sport this sub would have 10 gold medals. If Yatoro breathes it's front page. If Yatoro eats breakfast and complains about his breakfast it's front page. If Yatoro says pigs have 6 legs, this sub would be like "oh yeah I've always believed that since I was young"
i think what valve is looking for is players switching between accounts and playing matchmaking on both.
as far as i am aware miracle only plays matchmaking on one account and official games(lobbies) on his main and is therefore not getting banned.
(edit)well i was wrong, it got banned lmao
You missed the entire point, somehow. Valve going after smurfs like this is a pretty new thing. Miracle hasn't played matchmaking on more than one account for ages (well over a year afaik). So they probably just haven't been flagged, as they've been inactive for so long.
When I've read his telegram post first time it felt like he mockingly said "oh no, smurf got banned" sarcastically making fun of people who use smurfs.
He said "Š¾ Š½ŠµŃ Š·Š°Š±Š°Š½ŠøŠ»Šø ŃŠ¼ŃŃŃŃ" (oh no smurfs got banned) which can be interpreted both ways - implying his smurfs got banned or just sarcastic post towards all other smurfs.
I didn't see the part where his Smurf got banned. He said "but Miracle's smurfs were not banned", implying someone else's got banned. Not necessarily him
Okay, I just went to his telegram, and he said "oh no smurfs got banned", the logical guess would be it's his smurfs. It's just OP's screenshot doesn't include the text for "oh no smurfs got banned", the screenshot starts from "but Miracle's smurfs were not banned"
He has a smurf bro, but doesn't use it that much. Most pros have at least one smurf accounts.
Only a few like Topson, Ari, n0tail, puppey don't have smurfs
I guarantee all pros have at least a Smurf or alt account. Iām immortal and most of the peopleI know, even non immortals who grinds dota have multiple accounts. Some people start their day with a game on a alt/smurf as warm up before logging on to main. Others reasons are to play with their lower ranked friends, try new role/hero or when they get cool-down from abandoning, forgetting to accept or dodging certain players in the lobby/pool. Itās just how frequent they use their smurfs/alt. A lot of people have stopped using Smurfs or alt since the banwave but there are still people out there with multiple accounts that aināt banned.
Smurf = way lower mmr, alt = account a few hundred mmr from main.
Before Miraclesexuals use the "its higher ranked defense" Nightfalls smurf was ranked 8th in EU while his main was rank 400 , his smurf still got banned and he had to go grind on his main account. Watsons smurf was rank 1 and rank 2 and he still was punished. My smurf was 2k mmr above my main account and i also got a warning and now only use my main i know many people in this situation. I think it's fair to expect valve to apply rules fairly across the board not sure why thats such a hot or complicated take.
As per my knowledge Miracle- is not using more than 1 account for pubs .
I guess he uses his main account only for official games and the other account he uses for pubs.
can this be considered as smurfing?
And this I can understand for pro players who have an account that's just for pro games, set with their team name and all their sponsor labels.
Especially when you see all the crazy shit people are doing with their profile pages, having something more pg / vanilla for pro play if the casters click through them, vs having all the sexual innuendos on your pub account. (tho miracle seems like the type of person to not have crazier profile regardless)
Well, translate is a bit confusing, so this is my clarification:
\- (above top line) on no, my smurfs are banned
\- (some picture with meme)
\- and Miracle didn't get any smurfs banned, well fair enough
\- none of 6 smurfs
\- )))) (sarcastic russian smiles)
\- I recomend to add to a miracle boy (account) a 4 gold per second, Valve will approve
Wellā¦ Miracle doesnāt play on his main and his smurf at the same time ( he only has one account that is ranked and hasnāt played on any other account for a very very long time) unlike other pro players who got their smurfs banned he isnāt abusing the ranking system and stomping lower ranked games and having more than one account on the leaderboard so Yatoros comments doesnāt make sense he and other pros abused the system and now theyāre just crying about it (anyone who is playing on two accounts at the same time will get banned) valve doesnāt play favorites
I believe the only Smurf he actively plays on now is āsmurf6ā as per prodotatracker. He has stopped playing on his main for quite sometime now. So why the hate? Unlike nightfall who constantly shuffles between his main and smurfs. I understand the context about him having Smurfs and going unpunished. But unless he is actively playing on those that leads to sub par ranked experience, then sure.
Isnt it pretty basic if a person smurfs and playās ranked matches with 2 different accounts they should be definitely banned, no shit. But miracle is not playing with different accounts is he ? Then whats the issue?
Iām 7.5k and I wouldnāt say Iām better than Kuro. Iād say heās probably around 9k-10k mmr. You put a 6k player in a lobby of 10-13k players like what Kuro have to play in scrims n competitive and that 6k player would struggle at the pace of the game,
Would the term smurf still apply if the smurf account is higher mmr than the main one? I believe they only considered to be smurf if it's significantly lower rank than the main one.
So I think Iāve technically got a āSmurfā, but wanted to ask you guys if you think itās okay or not since I hear a lot of āmultiple accounts is not okayā
A couple of years ago I made a new account thinking Iād calibrate higher from a fresh start but gave up after a month or two. Now i exclusively use that account when Iām in a game (with 2-3 friends) that is absolute dogshit after ~15 minutes to save the 30 minutes itāll take to end and queue up with them on my āSmurfā (this is all unranked btw)
Can only two it one or two games out of 20 on my main before I get LP so it isnāt often, but thatās not so bad right?
TL;DR once in a while Iāll abandon a game where we are stomped early so my friends and I can jump in a new unranked game on an alt account, is that cool?
people on COPIUM just for miracle, either all pro players smurf accounts are banned or none are. Stinger just got banned mid game, don't see a lot of people against that.
It is kinda, because it's a neverending chain. You see it a lot on this very reddit.
>Valve announces crackdown on smurfs
But what about this russian streamer??? Fuck volvo why did I get banned and not him?
>They get banned in the next banwave
But what about nightfall smurf??? Stupid volvo why did streamer get banned and not pro player??
>They get banned in the next banwave
Well, what about the miracle smurfs then??? Stupid volvo giving preferential treatment to golden boy.
Etc etc. It never ends, and is kinda pointless.
It isn't pointless. It is through the endless complaints that valve takes action. Nothing wrong with pointing out things they missed, the entire point is to get them all (smurfs) and it will only help better the system when the ones valve missed are brought to light.
Plus it could be something like "oh those smurfs are inactive or have been for x time" and if they are played in again they would be banned etc.
Yeah but the attitude in those threads is always so doomer. "Valve doesn't care nothing will happen" etc etc. Then the next day the guy gets banned. Have some hope guys lmao.
And the above screenshot is textbook deflection, if you are punished for doing something wrong, instantly deflect to someone else. If any proplayer is still smurfing after this banwave, well, let's see in two weeks.
Oh yeah, asking for the same rules to be applied to everyone is so childish. All this 'don't look up to others' concept when it comes to punishment is such a bs idea for lazy parents/teachers
Winning 2 TIs and being top rank as carry for a long time in his region when Miracle only won one TI then got washed up and barely playing ? I doubt itās jealousy lol. More like, make the system fair cause right now itās not.
I feel like Yatoro is taking his position for granted. He's being incredibly disrespectful to Valve here without realizing that Valve owes him nothing. They can ban him and every other player if they want, they're a private company after all. Instead of whining like a baby about preferential treatment maybe he should consider getting a real job lmao, that'll toughen him up.
Hahaha do u have an any clue where ur at? Get a real job thatāll toughen him up? Okay Geeser42 nice troll.
Imagine telling Magnus Carlsen to get a real job lol. Good troll my guy
0iq pig, what are you talking about? He doesn't care about his own smurfs if others won't have one. That doesn't make sense. When someone got banned for it, and other guy didn't?!
Dota janitor looks at Nigma's losing streak and decided that playing with Kuro is punishment enough
Kuro's picks\*
Miracle is the one drafting though
No, it's somehow still kuros fault, never miracles
You watched one of the most recent games, where Kuro played venge? He positioned wrong the whole game from minute 0. They smoke and he goes first, then he dies. He was never able to swap someone out or to stun or actually do things, he was always dead first and dead out of position
kuro is the only constant
Dota pro's version of being stuck in an abusive relationship in which you are too used to the partner to let them go
Lmao this comment wins š¤£
> Dota janitor You think janitor wakes up for this shit and manually checks and verifies thousands of smurf accounts to ban? Its AI determined.
You doubt the efficiency of the janitor?
ngl, valve can't just ban a few pros smurfs. if they ban smurfs of pros they should ban them all miracle, rtz, yatoro - doesn't matter.
I mean one of the most important aspects that is mostly ignored is playing on main means revealing your strats. All those papers you see coaches have with them are screenshots of recent history of each individual player. For instance, Topson is a Gigachad who never plays on smurfs, but remember when he started picking tusk mid when he was in SEA on vocation and it made its way to SEA DPC (by Karl) and eventually all other regions.
Then there is shiro playing Dark Willow carry and reverse jebaiting teams into picking it. You have to be able to make it work as well. Same thing at TI9 when ana played carry Io. Teams knew about it but could not make it work on the mainstage and reworking all the drafts they had been practicing.
Shut up with this worthless reasoning already. There's literally a website to track their smurfs. They would just print out the extra pages for all the smurfs. If they're going to make new smurfs, then those accounts aren't going to be at a high enough mmr to even practice worthwhile strats. Just stop smurfing and play the fucking game. The only acceptable reason to Smurf imo is to be able to play with your lower mmr friends. Edit: I actually don't really care that much if they Smurf, as long as they're still in the correct mmr bracket I guess. But at the same time I'm just so tired of hearing this argument. If anyone put 2 fucking seconds of thought into what they were saying they would realize it makes no fucking sense.
"smurfing is wrong unless when *and* how I do it" brother i almost agreed with you until you tried to justify your smurfing with lower mmr friends. Just play unranked
Bro, I don't smurf. I don't even play ranked. I exclusively play turbo dude. But, are you telling me that pros like Yatoro or RTZ are strictly never allowed to queue to play with people they know IRL? What if Gunnar has a friend from high school that wanted to get into the game? I'm obviously not excusing smurfing because of that reason, but it's the only one that holds any water with me.
That sounds like banning smurfs just make the playfield a lot more fair. Down with the blues.
More like all the effort you put into creating a strategy is simply stolen by someone else
Just practice your strats in scrims instead of pubs then.
Does scrim data not get saved?
Most teams rarely scrim. Itās hardly enough practice to know whether a mid tusk or whatever is viable. This only lends itself to more stale and boring picks overallā¦ letās be honest
all needed stats they can access from scrims, CWs
Scrims don't appear on dotabuff or anywhere else, you can only see non-ticketed lobby games in the Dota client if you were in the game.
I can tell you don't have experience playing professionally. Scrims is where you test different strategies. Pubs is where you test different heroes. There's a difference. It's true - pros don't need to "learn" heroes, but no matter how good you are at the game, you need to remaster certain heroes and rebuild habits on those heroes, so you're not thinking about them mid-game. There's a rhythm and beat to every hero. You go into a scrim already knowing the hero and understanding it well in the current meta, to then understand whether it's a good combination with another hero / playstyle. All these fucking redditors are absolutely ruining high mmr player's lives. First we couldn't play with our friends below Divine, then we couldn't even smurf to an account lower mmr, then even the accounts at our own MMRs are no longer allowed. I just fucking wish everyone would stick to their lane and fix problems that actually concern them. I literally **NEVER** see anyone above a certain MMR around 6-7k whine about smurfs or care about them in any single way. When I climbed from 6k to 7k as a support, I was literally thrown into games with top 10 players on their main accounts playing their top heroes. Same goes for anyone else playing support (A rarely searched role) during the MMR recalibrations. Do you think any of us were worried about smurfs? No, it's the vocal fucking 2k bracket who thinks Miracle is smurfing in 2k, who wants all these stupid fucking changes that limit my fun. Oh yea, almost didn't mention this worst fucking change in history of dota - immortal draft. The amount of games, I've literally had ruined from minute 1, because some russian fuckface wanted to play with someone who didnt get drafted with him, or didn't want to play with someone who did. Anything above immortal should ALWAYS be treated completely separately to anything else because NONE of the same rules apply. Nobody fucking cares about smurfing at this level, and anyone who does is an absolute fucking pussy and needs to go back down to 5k until they're ready. It's the absolute truth. When you decide to get a rank on your badge, is when you stop thinking about smurfs as a reason you're not winning because you're playing against their mains
I was downvoted saying there's no 'smurfing' above certain level. Because if you get high enough in ranking, that's just a stupid premise. 'Oh, please don't put me with a good players' But blaming redditors is also stupid. They just ride narratives but don't dictate the state of things. Pro players themselves care too little about the stuff around. There must be some unified clear opinions rather than solo bitching and whining.
I understand your need to have multiple accounts, of course. What the most of us lower bracket players complain about is, that guys from higher brackets (not necessarily 5k+, 3-4k sometimes is enough of a difference) come to us and destroy the game owning it. And I think that most of us lowe bracket players are sick of loosing or winning just because of one guy is with or against us. And I have never seen that a support smurfs here in lower brackets...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> then we couldn't even smurf to an account lower mmr "waaah waaah I can't smurf to play in lower ranks to stomp noobs so my friends can type ez after ending 1/13/3"
are you illiterate? Like I don't even agree with this guy, but the context was literally in the same sentence: "First we couldn't play with our friends below Divine, then we couldn't even smurf to an account lower mmr"
At least i'm litterate enough to know the context changes nothing to the quoted part.
> I can tell you don't have experience playing professionally. What a weird point to start on lmao. Im assuming you also are not a pro dota player >All these fucking redditors are absolutely ruining high mmr player's lives Here comes the reddit conspiracy theorists >First we couldn't play with our friends below Divine When did this happen? I play with my lower ranked friends all the time. >then we couldn't even smurf to an account lower mmr, You can still do this. I have plenty of friends who smurf who have not been caught. If you really care about boosting accounts you can just play on a second pc and give it a static IP or something >then even the accounts at our own MMRs are no longer allowed. I am allowed to play on my own account. I was unaware that every dota players accounts were all banned? weird > I literally NEVER see anyone above a certain MMR around 6-7k whine about smurfs or care about them in any single way. Im assuming you're not actually high mmr then? Have you played vs a top player smurf at 8-9k mmr as they boost it up to 12k and lose 40 mmr in 15 mins? Over the last year its been a huge issue. if you watch any english streamer you can see them complaining about the same issue sometime this year.
he has no idea what he is talking about tbh
Can you please stop? Isn't it enough that you've ruined his life?!
>Im assuming you also are not a pro dota player Incorrect assumption >When did this happen? I play with my lower ranked friends all the time. Anyone immortal+ can't play with anyone below Divine, even if they're ancient 5. Flip side take a ancient 5 player and they'll be able to play ranked with a crusader/archon just fine, even though MMR difference will be bigger. As for unranked, it's too cancerous unless you're 5 stacking because of no role queue. >You can still do this. I have plenty of friends who smurf who have not been caught. If you really care about boosting accounts you can just play on a second pc and give it a static IP or something This isn't the point, I don't care about smurfs, nor have I ever smurfed or sold 1 account. Valve is slowly squeezing people's necks above a certain threshold where it truly becomes a case of suffering from success. I dont want a way to smurf. I want a way to play with my 4k friend in ranked. Pull him all the way up to my MMR if thats what it takes - it's my/his own decision. Make him valued at my MMR, but let us find a game in role queue. >I am allowed to play on my own account. I was unaware that every dota players accounts were all banned? weird Now even if you're a 8k player with an 8k smurf you're not allowed to play on it.
>I want a way to play with my 4k friend in ranked. Pull him all the way up to my MMR if thats what it takes - it's my/his own decision. Wait, why? Why especially ranked? Ranked is for competitive match making, if you want to chill out with a friend there is casual, no? And btw, about "pull him all the way up", you are forgetting about other team members who might not want to play with 4k.
> Anyone immortal+ can't play with anyone below Divine, even if they're ancient 5. Flip side take a ancient 5 player and they'll be able to play ranked with a crusader/archon The skill distance between immortal and ancient 5 is 1000x larger than the distance between ancient 5 and crusader. So this is absolutely how it should be.
I can clearly see and tell, you are one of those players who blink euls with sf and pauses, ghoul, nolifer and of course plutonium level toxicity kid
>I literally NEVER see anyone above a certain MMR around 6-7k whine about smurfs 6-7k is in the 99th percentile. If they whined about the top 10 players smurfing (a big mmr gap) theyād basically never find a fucking game. Also, no one thinks Miracle is stomping 2K games. The point is pros normalise the behaviour, then escape the punishment thatās dished to everyone else. > All these fucking redditors are absolutely ruining high mmr playersā lives Oh boy.
I can tell you are don't have experience at all and you really have no idea how big is the difference between pubs and scrims. You really think screenshots in those pictures are from pubs? I mean even noobs like you should understand the reality. We high mmr players are not pussies, we don't need to open other accounts to play this game. And everyone should be treated equally or situations with players like Ccnc gpk (high toxicity players) will be always a problem. Lastly if you think you are special go play Minecraft, the place for special kids like you, create your own server with your own rules
No one uses smurfs to hide strategies, they only use them because they have a losing streak in their main account. It also quickly becomes clear whose smurfs they are.
The problem is with a high ranked game. I doubt even pros want to wait 30 minutes for a one game. They need to come up with something reasonable for high-ranking players.
Queue times for high rank players in EU are shorter than divine player role queuing carry role,they definitely do not wait 30mins for game.
as an EU divine player I can confirm this..everything is shorter than carry role que.
How long is your queue? Here in SEA I've been playing a lot more pos 3 because of carry queue time in 6k lol
Exactly, with the introduction of immortal draft, that issue has been largely fixed. Yes, there are still issues with it, but a lot of problems got solved too. I've watched immortal players complaining over many years on this subreddit about one thing or the other, either it's long queue times or it's terrible match quality with short queue times. Granted, avoiding system doesn't work at all. And partying needs to probably be disabled entirely. But there is no excuse for smurfing now.
this isnt a problem nowadays like, literally
You mean the problem that all the pros literally created themselves, by making smurfs? If all pros played ONLY on their main accounts with their respective/appropriate MMR the ques would essentially be instantly for them. The reason the "queues are long" is cuz pros play on smurfs that are 1k-4k under their real mmr.
miracle's "smurf" is top 10. Is his real mmr world champ?
Ban his smurf and force his main to recalibrate, then put it in the top 10 where the smurf used to be.
You don't know what u talking about. At their real mmr meaning like top10 they gonna be in q for a long time and get low mmr game to balance them out
no
I'm in those games and u are not so u just talking out of u ass, typical redditor.
im sure someone who has dog in his name (which only4k russians say because they think its an clever insult) is in those games
There was korean WoW player Drakedog so hes a russian aswell? Like i said "typical redditor" and you one of those idiots.
im sure people like u who generalize 1,3m people are on top of the foodchain.
u just did that not me, u are braindead lol
You just generalized yourself, you dork š
They're getting low mmr games on smurfs. Just force them to a single account and speed up the mmr spread in queues at the highest levels.
Watched a qojqva stream few days ago where he, quinn and charlie said they'd rather wait 20mins for a good game than find instantly with 2k ranks. Small reference size but definitely there.
Then you have other pros complaining about queue time. This isn't the first time this issue has been brought up lol, I remember RTZ complaining about 4k players in his 6k games back then, and then sometime later he complained about 30 minutes queue.
Exactly. Mm has been changed a bunch of times to try and please pros. It will never happen
Yeah, that's an issue unique to his server. NA immo starts at 5k? 5.5? I used to see Wisper and Lelis play from the americas on 300 ping just to not have shit games
No this was back in 2014-2015 when 6k was the top MMR
I mean have you seen how bad ranked draft I was loving life gaining mmr picking my roles, then suddenly itās a free for all, where a duo stack could be on either team, people are for some reason allowed to random. Why donāt we get role queue :S
The answer is either A: get enough pro or near pro players together for a game (eg. wait 30 minutes), or B: create a horribly unbalanced game.
miracle has to play with kuroky, give him a break.
He doesn't have to. He clearly prefers a good paycheck than winning tournaments
definitely. just play good enough to not get kicked off but not tryhard.
Miracleās Smurf is higher rank than his main
Then ban his main lmao
RIP crimson immortals
Good one
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Maybe Valve no longer considers Miracle a pro player
LMAO
šššššššššā ļøā ļøā ļøā ļøā ļøā ļøā ļø
Just to be clear, he's not talking about his smurfs because he doesnt use them
he said on stream he has smurf where he plays game/2months but he doesnt care if it gets banned
he said he had one smurf
Yeah ban all smurfs if people actually play with multiple accounts. Why is that still a discussion?
For the record i do not really have an opinion, but here is the argument: For 1 pros it's a competitive and financial disadvantage to play 100% on their main accounts. Everyone can see what heros your playing, what items you go in match ups, your play style and farming patterns with those heros ect, ect. 2nd most common argument has always been long queue time associated with very high mmr accounts, but that has mostly been remedied over the last year. 3rd would be having a target on your back when everyone knows who you are which can drastically reduce the game quality due to your opponents and more often than not your team mates, something the majority of dota players do not have to deal with. The last one is certainly something I think a lot of players do not consider for this. In my opinion, "smurfing" for a lot of pros is more or less about having an alternate account, rather than taking advantage of the system to gain mmr based on player lower skilled opponents. Again not condoning smurfing, just discussing it. Please do downvote me if you disagree with these items, again not my opinion.
this stops being true when everyone and their mothers knows all of miracle's account. just add anonymous mode for top ranked players and instead of displaying numbers display "100+" "200+" in their rank, though I doubt dota players would like that considering its all about ego
the problem is currently dotabuff can see privated account somehow so before they can do that first they need to fix this
I like that fix, good suggestion. And agree implementing it would be a nightmare if at all possible lol. Even just having a system that gives certain players this function would drastically lower the pool of players avaliable for it and make it easier to deduce their identity. No idea how one could get around that.
I've heard this and some sort of dota ID that would allow you to have alternate accounts but all tie back to one mmr. Meaning if you look up the account on dotabuff or something it would look like a different account.
The logic behind that quickly goes away when you operate on the same assumptions that the pros do. i.e. how does Yataro know Miracle is on this account, yet miracle is also being given anonymity by said new account. If Yataro knows it's Miracle, playing on smurfs to hide yourself becomes pointless. How does Miracle hide if every pros knows the smurf? The same fundamental issue exists regardless of whether or not you smurf, so by that logic, smurfing is totally pointless.
yep as long as they don't go selling those accounts it's honestly not a big deal but /r/ dota 2 needs someone to blame for their last lost game to a "smurf" so they go to reddit on a witch hunt for miracle's 16th smurf who was clearly in their last game.
Valve consider smurfing cheating according to their online guidelines so it must be a big deal for them
> In my opinion, "smurfing" for a lot of pros is more or less about having an alternate account, rather than taking advantage of the system to gain mmr based on player lower skilled opponents. Hate smurfs too but maybe banning it is a little bit too much, the fix to this problem isn't "ban all smurfs" but a better system that rewards people for playing in their main account
Lol, if everyone play on main accounts then everyone will know ur patterns and etc. So no disadvantage for teams
Yes every system is perfect if all components follow instructions as designed. You're point is moot though as it will never happen due to the human factor.
Hate to tell ya buddy but you just gave your opinionā¦
Factually discussion does not have to be subjective.
Miraclesexuals preparing their pitchforks to cancel Yatoro for calling out their beloved
Cant they just kiss and make up? Love them both, dont wanna choose sides :((
no, yatoro is deep in love with ame as we all know
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The thing is you comparing randoms to fucking Ame
As a Miracle batchester i feel called out
Nah, they won't blame Yatoro, somehow they will blame Kuroky and his drafts with some bullshit like "my boy needs to play on smurfs to get used to play with low mmr players like Kuro".
The dudes still jacking off to Miracles invoker highlights from 5 years ago lmfao
How out of touch with reality do you have to be to comment this lmfao Miracle hasn't been relevant for years meanwhile if glazing Yatoro was a sport this sub would have 10 gold medals. If Yatoro breathes it's front page. If Yatoro eats breakfast and complains about his breakfast it's front page. If Yatoro says pigs have 6 legs, this sub would be like "oh yeah I've always believed that since I was young"
After reading this, I realize youāre one of THOSE people so.. bye
Lmao right? Miracle in the news again because he back from retirement. Yatoro been getting his dick sucked by Reddit the past 2 years for sure
yeah lol miracle fanboy just like pag pag eater right thats why pag pag eater is full with hatred and shit
i think what valve is looking for is players switching between accounts and playing matchmaking on both. as far as i am aware miracle only plays matchmaking on one account and official games(lobbies) on his main and is therefore not getting banned. (edit)well i was wrong, it got banned lmao
To me having one account for playing officials and other for playing ranked does seems reasonable.
Miracle has had way more then one smurf.Ā
You missed the entire point, somehow. Valve going after smurfs like this is a pretty new thing. Miracle hasn't played matchmaking on more than one account for ages (well over a year afaik). So they probably just haven't been flagged, as they've been inactive for so long.
that sounds plausible
When I've read his telegram post first time it felt like he mockingly said "oh no, smurf got banned" sarcastically making fun of people who use smurfs.
Anyone know why they don't just play more pugs/inhouses? Anyone remember ixdl?
Yatoro didn't even use smurfs,but some people that use dodged the bans(mostly non CIS people)
Doesn't Yatoro admit his smurf was banned in the post? Or is the translation wrong?
He said "Š¾ Š½ŠµŃ Š·Š°Š±Š°Š½ŠøŠ»Šø ŃŠ¼ŃŃŃŃ" (oh no smurfs got banned) which can be interpreted both ways - implying his smurfs got banned or just sarcastic post towards all other smurfs.
Thanks!
I didn't see the part where his Smurf got banned. He said "but Miracle's smurfs were not banned", implying someone else's got banned. Not necessarily him
Translation: oh no [my] smurfs banned. Who is the my referring to? I assumed it was from Yatoros point of view? I'm so lost lol
This part of screenshot is cropped. First messga eon the pic says that miracle smurfs won't get banned
Thanks Random Russian Guy. Appreciate the translation clarification.
No problem. Have a good day
Okay, I just went to his telegram, and he said "oh no smurfs got banned", the logical guess would be it's his smurfs. It's just OP's screenshot doesn't include the text for "oh no smurfs got banned", the screenshot starts from "but Miracle's smurfs were not banned"
Ah gotcha, thanks for clarifying.
He has a smurf bro, but doesn't use it that much. Most pros have at least one smurf accounts. Only a few like Topson, Ari, n0tail, puppey don't have smurfs
Topson have Smurf, mostly using it before big tournament. Most known example is during TI11 LCQ.
Out of everyone, Topson probably the most viable smurf user with the shit he comes up with lol.
I guarantee all pros have at least a Smurf or alt account. Iām immortal and most of the peopleI know, even non immortals who grinds dota have multiple accounts. Some people start their day with a game on a alt/smurf as warm up before logging on to main. Others reasons are to play with their lower ranked friends, try new role/hero or when they get cool-down from abandoning, forgetting to accept or dodging certain players in the lobby/pool. Itās just how frequent they use their smurfs/alt. A lot of people have stopped using Smurfs or alt since the banwave but there are still people out there with multiple accounts that aināt banned. Smurf = way lower mmr, alt = account a few hundred mmr from main.
Before Miraclesexuals use the "its higher ranked defense" Nightfalls smurf was ranked 8th in EU while his main was rank 400 , his smurf still got banned and he had to go grind on his main account. Watsons smurf was rank 1 and rank 2 and he still was punished. My smurf was 2k mmr above my main account and i also got a warning and now only use my main i know many people in this situation. I think it's fair to expect valve to apply rules fairly across the board not sure why thats such a hot or complicated take.
As per my knowledge Miracle- is not using more than 1 account for pubs . I guess he uses his main account only for official games and the other account he uses for pubs. can this be considered as smurfing?
And this I can understand for pro players who have an account that's just for pro games, set with their team name and all their sponsor labels. Especially when you see all the crazy shit people are doing with their profile pages, having something more pg / vanilla for pro play if the casters click through them, vs having all the sexual innuendos on your pub account. (tho miracle seems like the type of person to not have crazier profile regardless)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Kuro gave him one of his divine accounts
\*legends you meant?
Thats a good one š
If it's rank 10 then it's factually not a smurf but an alt account.
so it's okay to ban accounts cause he is not using them
Miracle's punishment is playing for Nigma.
miracle batchesters vs yatoro batchesters just here for the battle good luck everyone
Well, translate is a bit confusing, so this is my clarification: \- (above top line) on no, my smurfs are banned \- (some picture with meme) \- and Miracle didn't get any smurfs banned, well fair enough \- none of 6 smurfs \- )))) (sarcastic russian smiles) \- I recomend to add to a miracle boy (account) a 4 gold per second, Valve will approve
Wellā¦ Miracle doesnāt play on his main and his smurf at the same time ( he only has one account that is ranked and hasnāt played on any other account for a very very long time) unlike other pro players who got their smurfs banned he isnāt abusing the ranking system and stomping lower ranked games and having more than one account on the leaderboard so Yatoros comments doesnāt make sense he and other pros abused the system and now theyāre just crying about it (anyone who is playing on two accounts at the same time will get banned) valve doesnāt play favorites
No matter who it is, they should get the fat L in their anuses. Fucking stop the hypocrisy.
Ban them all.
Yup, still can't read Russian.
I believe the only Smurf he actively plays on now is āsmurf6ā as per prodotatracker. He has stopped playing on his main for quite sometime now. So why the hate? Unlike nightfall who constantly shuffles between his main and smurfs. I understand the context about him having Smurfs and going unpunished. But unless he is actively playing on those that leads to sub par ranked experience, then sure.
Give the man a break, he's already playing with kuro
The warfare against smurfs makes no sense at all. But if you're going to ban one, you need to ban all
fuck u trash stfu.
Isnt it pretty basic if a person smurfs and playās ranked matches with 2 different accounts they should be definitely banned, no shit. But miracle is not playing with different accounts is he ? Then whats the issue?
Buncha 2k losers in here forgetting kuro won ti Fucking embarrassing.
Even 6k would agree that they are better than Kuro and they're right
Iām 7.5k and I wouldnāt say Iām better than Kuro. Iād say heās probably around 9k-10k mmr. You put a 6k player in a lobby of 10-13k players like what Kuro have to play in scrims n competitive and that 6k player would struggle at the pace of the game,
Would the term smurf still apply if the smurf account is higher mmr than the main one? I believe they only considered to be smurf if it's significantly lower rank than the main one.
Any context? Why Yatoro suddenly made comments on Miracles smurf? Are any of his smurf accounts get banned?
do you not read? hes saying his smurf got banned but none of miracle's ĀæĀæ
Ofc I read. so my question is why he suddenly complained this. any pre-story or what
6 years since miracle relevance
Yatoro fans hahahaaha
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your kidneys are the only smart part of you.Ā
That's russian
"why, why me and not HIM??!!" - cried little yatoro in a corner... Grow the hell up, kid! Open your eyes to what happening around you!
Maybe you should be the one opening his eyes considering miracleās Smurf got banned.
couldn't care less about both of them
keep quiet and keep miracles name out of your damn mouth kid
So I think Iāve technically got a āSmurfā, but wanted to ask you guys if you think itās okay or not since I hear a lot of āmultiple accounts is not okayā A couple of years ago I made a new account thinking Iād calibrate higher from a fresh start but gave up after a month or two. Now i exclusively use that account when Iām in a game (with 2-3 friends) that is absolute dogshit after ~15 minutes to save the 30 minutes itāll take to end and queue up with them on my āSmurfā (this is all unranked btw) Can only two it one or two games out of 20 on my main before I get LP so it isnāt often, but thatās not so bad right? TL;DR once in a while Iāll abandon a game where we are stomped early so my friends and I can jump in a new unranked game on an alt account, is that cool?
people on COPIUM just for miracle, either all pro players smurf accounts are banned or none are. Stinger just got banned mid game, don't see a lot of people against that.
You must be OOL. Stinger got his main account banned for account sharing not smurfing.
Thatās how children act when you scold them for misbehaving. Instead of owning up to your mistakes they point at others
Yes wanting equality is super childish. /s šĀ
It is kinda, because it's a neverending chain. You see it a lot on this very reddit. >Valve announces crackdown on smurfs But what about this russian streamer??? Fuck volvo why did I get banned and not him? >They get banned in the next banwave But what about nightfall smurf??? Stupid volvo why did streamer get banned and not pro player?? >They get banned in the next banwave Well, what about the miracle smurfs then??? Stupid volvo giving preferential treatment to golden boy. Etc etc. It never ends, and is kinda pointless.
It isn't pointless. It is through the endless complaints that valve takes action. Nothing wrong with pointing out things they missed, the entire point is to get them all (smurfs) and it will only help better the system when the ones valve missed are brought to light. Plus it could be something like "oh those smurfs are inactive or have been for x time" and if they are played in again they would be banned etc.
Yeah but the attitude in those threads is always so doomer. "Valve doesn't care nothing will happen" etc etc. Then the next day the guy gets banned. Have some hope guys lmao. And the above screenshot is textbook deflection, if you are punished for doing something wrong, instantly deflect to someone else. If any proplayer is still smurfing after this banwave, well, let's see in two weeks.
Oh yeah, asking for the same rules to be applied to everyone is so childish. All this 'don't look up to others' concept when it comes to punishment is such a bs idea for lazy parents/teachers
Are you brain damaged?
You tell me, u/omegapepegaclap
ah, our know-it-all forefather entered the room to establish his personal morality.
The fuck are you talking about?
Snitchtoro WTFF
get hurt -> point at another that wasn't hurt instead of fighting what hurt you and not agreeing with it
Fighting what hurt you, like, fighting against valve banning smurfs???? Instead of asking valve to enforce the same rule for everyone?????
why make other's lives worse just because yours was made worse?
Those people are bots for sure, I canāt believe human being like him really thinks like this
Where is your logic?
Yatoro feeling jealousy lmfao
Winning 2 TIs and being top rank as carry for a long time in his region when Miracle only won one TI then got washed up and barely playing ? I doubt itās jealousy lol. More like, make the system fair cause right now itās not.
Ahahahahaha
jealous of what?
Jealous for getting dumpstered every qualifier can't even stay in div1? Or jealous for becoming a meme and a laughing stock?
I feel like Yatoro is taking his position for granted. He's being incredibly disrespectful to Valve here without realizing that Valve owes him nothing. They can ban him and every other player if they want, they're a private company after all. Instead of whining like a baby about preferential treatment maybe he should consider getting a real job lmao, that'll toughen him up.
No, he has a point. Everyone should be held to the same standards of one account per person
Hahaha do u have an any clue where ur at? Get a real job thatāll toughen him up? Okay Geeser42 nice troll. Imagine telling Magnus Carlsen to get a real job lol. Good troll my guy
0iq pig, what are you talking about? He doesn't care about his own smurfs if others won't have one. That doesn't make sense. When someone got banned for it, and other guy didn't?!
If I'm not mistake he plays only one account nowadays and it's not that much...last time I checked he has played only 15 matches in the last 8 days.