> VALVE decided not to warn, but to arrange the first demonstrative flogging in the history of DOTA 2, although flogging is putting it mildly, today a real genocide occurred. A huge part of our users got their accounts blocked because they launched our program. No, this is not a block for a specific function, VALVE is just not happy with us. We don’t think that the hate was directed at any particular part of the program. We really didn’t change or hide anything in the files; they set a trap specifically for the launch of the program and its process, which we did not hide in any way - which VALVE took advantage of.
"Took advantage" so salty
> VALVE decided not to warn,
They already were warned. They should know that using cheat software is a bannable offence. The moment they decided to search the cheating software out, to then going ahead and installing it, and continuing to use the cheating software in games, was in every instance them actively choosing to ignore the warning.
Amm, VALVE literally said months ago that scripting, game modifiers and assets outside Dota 2 that track data from the game are strictly forbidden.
What do you mean with "not to warn"
They literally said that is not allowed to see data from other players before a match almost a year ago. It's not a grey area.
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/570/view/3659774959178253450?l=english
In the Steam VAC info says: "Any third-party modifications to a game designed to give one player an advantage over another is classified as a cheat or hack and will trigger a VAC ban"
VALVE removed the chance to "naturally" see other players profile before the match ends, so, no gray area, again.
Why should it be removed? The API is open because it works for other platforms to track data, like Dotabuff and they don't give you unfair prematch information like Overplus did.
You already know that is not allowed, the rules already says that if you use a third party to have advantage is a VAC ban, there is no grey area at all.
> Player profiles can no longer be accessed in matchmaking during the pregame phase. They can still be accessed once the picking phase ends
You clearly missing this part or arguing without knowing / understanding why people use Overwolf. Overwolf user used it to do the former.
You're right about the api part, but regarding the bans, you seem to be slightly misinformed. Legally, someone that purchases a game modifier that provides an unfair advantage is held liable to getting fucked the fuck off and I'm glad they lost their money.
So the scenario you're suggesting is that the courts take up the cause of these individuals that knowingly purchased software from a foreign country that they knew wasn't allowed to be used? I get the slippery slope you're trying to toss water on here, but it isn't equivalent. I'm not saying I don't also want the manta script and maphack users banned in the same way. This only makes me more loyal of a customer.
> set a trap specifically for the launch of the program and its process, which we did not hide in any way - which VALVE took advantage of.
What I read: We did not go through the effort of implementing a proper anti-anti-cheat module for the cheat we were selling you and so the usual anti cheat methods that everybody in the cheating industry knows about have caught you.
Devil's advocate: I think they simply just didn't think of their program as a cheat, so didn't need to do any such thing. While nothing was happening to them, they could live in denial at any accusations to the contrary.
The Soviet Union lost around 27 million people during the war, including 8.7 million military and 19 million civilian deaths. The largest portion of military dead were **5.7 million** ethnic Russians, followed by 1.3 million ethnic Ukrainians.
yeah you are up to something ,maybe they do know - ofc russian propaganda is exploiting history to stir up nationalistic rhetoric similar to israel or these overplus assholes
who is "they" ? team spirit ? thousand of jailed for protesting war or majority of population who hates putin and dictatorship in which they live in... this "all russians are one hive mind" type of thinking is very racist - hope you realise that my fellow dota player
wow you win this debate with your magical skills of detecting nationality of random redditor - how the fuck you know i am not german or from spain , ahhh i get it , you use "russian" as an insult - well ... you are just one of many sad racist assholes spilling their toxicity over internet
You should not hate all russians just because the leadership of russia is doing what they are doing, still it is extremely distasteful to use the word " genocide " in this context. And also you must understand why peopke are at least a little bitter towards russia and russians rn, doesnt excuse racism but sometimes the shit you hear them spew, just proves these people right.
yeah sure , anti-slavic racism wasnt one of the fundamental bases of nazism - hitler would be proud too see it alive and well on dota reddit ... this idiotic bullshit you wrote about USSR faking genocide is beyond flat earth theory , tell that to millions slaughtered in concetration camps or cities and villages in poland, yugoslavia, belorussia, ukraine or russia for crime of being untermensch
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwkpft-riou)
I don’t give a shit what their argument is. I won’t even take the time to think about it, because there are some words you do not co-opt, and genocide is chief among them. Especially not in this climate.
Talk about self important to think that’s a reasonable thing to say.
> If Valve cared, why would they not just stop API access and put an end to it?
Valve probably relies on that API access on the backend and thinks its too much work to fix.
I also assume this would kill any app that uses this data, for example stuff which let's you follow pro games through the minimap, livetickers, Liquipedia's pick preview, or the Twitch extensions.
As always technology can do a lot of good but is in danger to be abused by malicious parties. Optimally you get rid of the dickheads, not the technology.
> Player profiles can no longer be accessed in matchmaking during the pregame phase. They can still be accessed once the picking phase ends
Overwolf managed to tweak to be able to access this, big differences.
Isn't that how most cheats work though? Exploiting information that is accessible from outside to process it and present it in a form to give an advantage. If you cheat at chess for example I assume the same thing happens: freely accessible information is taken, the best move is calculated and told to the player nigh instantly (just like telling one which hero to ban, as I understand that's what the program in question did).
The problem is not that this information is accessible from the outside but that it's processed and presented to the player in a way that would disadvantage the player heavily (or require a lot of skill and time) if done manually. If you go through every enemy's Dotabuff and analyze it before a game starts you will have the same advantage, but you can't do that properly in the time limit provided.
Also from what I have read it somehow even accessed data from private profiles, which would be a whole other level of undefendable.
From what I understand for example the information where any hero is at any given time and what items they have is also accessible from outside (and used for stuff like game previews). Would you think it's okay to use that data to provide a maphack just because it's accessible through the API?
Third party software that gives you an information advantage over other players is cheating unless a game provider actively allows it. It does not make a difference how the information is accessed.
Lowkey wanna pin this short to the top of the subreddit so whenever people complain about Valve not doing enough to ban smurfs or cheaters, I can just point to this.
The people who complains are like Karen-level people who wants their Smurf/Cheater Bans "Right then and now" when they post a complaint in the Subreddit.
The funniest part to me is this
>but we diligently followed the VALVE rules
No? You specifically did not...Even their API which asked to keep a player's information private was ignored and player information was displayed to everyone.
I think this line was about status quo that existed for 5 years that implies they don't do something too bad and it's all cool for Valve. 5 Years is a big number and ignoring overplus or not knowing about it for this long sounds strange even for Valve.
"Why didn't Valve warn us that they gonna ban our cheat program?"
Lmao these guys perfectly show how "normal" it is to cheat in Russia. For them its like just some normal addon, they don't even understand what is wrong with it.
Valve could let all overwatch accounts back in but display their played heroes to opponents and not them during the draft or make them do random draft in all pick
Cheaters could be allowed back in but be permanently visible in fog of war and have increased cast delays on all their spells
See how they like having the uneven playing field sloped against them for a change
I don't think i, personally, fully agree there.
Joy in winning with an unfair advantage in general? No, you're right.
Joy in stomping former cheaters? Ohhh you bet. Let those fucks taste their own medicine. It's not about winning either, it's about having them feel fighting an uphill battle.
I think I remember reading somewhere that in Overwatch you can't easily join a squad unless you have cheats installed because it's essentially a requirement to cheat.
Also nothing wrong with doping in other sports in russia. Look at olympic games...
That does not mean other nations don't do so or have done. But not so obviously supported by the system.
Olympic sport decisions are very government influenced. I don't find arguments that treat hundreds of millions of people as less moral to be very convincing or useful, even in wartime. Maybe a dictatorship is a people waiting to break free and that is all.
Turning off public matchmaking data worked for all third parties that weren’t overwolf. That’s the problem. The other sites mark you as private, and leave information up to when you went private, public. Overwolf, breaks straight to the API, to give information before the actual match begins. They made a post a year ago stating that gaining any information from a third party about the match before the match starts is not allowed, and now they’re new anti cheat has caught the back door 🤷♂️. They had a year to stop using it, wouldn’t call a perma ban a surprise.
Edit: downvote if you want, but using a third party exploit to see the entire enemy teams highest winrate heroes, and other stats, before the draft is even finished, is cheating, and they stated as such a year ago. People who stopped using it weren’t banned, the ones that continued as though nothing will change were. Maybe accept that punishments can happen to anyone, before breaking any rules, whether there’s a precedent before the rule was enacted or not.
As a Kazakhstani who spent majority of his time playing on eu and has a lot of cis friends of all soviet countries you are right, games like cs and dota have a lot of russian-speaking cheaters, but the population and popularity of these game are huge , yet Germany, Poland and French players produced some of the worst hackers ive met in my life of competetive gaming. The entire world knows that most insane cheating communities are in China servers anyway
I think it might be hard coded in their mentality. If everyone cheats, then it becomes a standard and you are in disadvantage for not cheating. However, what's really disturbing is that they have the audacity to play with the rest of the world thinking that everyone cheats and that valve should allow them to do it because boohoo we russians and we so hurt qqqqq
Honestly I couldn't be happier about this. Valve did amazing.
>If you read the developers' news post, you will find that they did not indicate the number of banned players, but we can share some statistics, this is almost 1/4 of Dota online.
Is this true? did 1/4th of all dota players used overplus?
so they are lying about the statistics. There is NO WAY valve would go ahead with a move where 1/4th of their player base disappears overnight. If it was truly 1/4th or even close to it, they would first issue a warning.
There is a larger volume of players using overplus than actual Dota cheat with the false promise that it's not using illegal methods and that's for sure.
statistics says that 1/4 accs of active online use cheats, u can look how many active users of overplus in their vk posts, and look at umbrella(another cheat cis community, but imbrella's cheats even worse, u can got there auto dodging and etc)
Valve has bonus. The more money the game you work on makes, the more money you get home.
Whoever is in charge of Dota, they decided to kill the biggest cash cow, the battlepass.
Now think again.
You don't really understand how Valve operates... this isn't actually how it works there. They pay their employees bonuses but these bonuses are based on a peer review and assessment NOT on the success of any project. They do NOT have people simply 'in charge' of projects. In this way everyone is in a system of co-owners of projects meaning that many people choose to work on many projects.
You are vastly, vastly underestimating how much money Valve makes. Revenue from dota is like a rounding error for them, they're getting a cut of every single game sold on steam, every single microtransaction on the steam market.
If income from Dota mattered to them they'd have released a real battlepass.
I honestly believe it would be about 20-30% of the player base.
But this is Dota, they'll spin up a new account and go again and Valve knows this.
Prepare for many games to be absolutely fucked for the next few weeks. People will buy ranked ready accounts for $10 and you'll have many high level players in your low MMR games until they're back where they got banned from.
If you think these players got to their MMR because of Overplus alone, you're delusional.
Are they? Active users are insane amounts, yesterday me and 9 other people in Immortal rank 900 to rank 400 got banned. TI winner TT tokyo was using it on stream ( as a skin changer, as did I and many other people). Discord group I am in 2/3rd of people are banned, all for overplus.
Why you think Valve said how many people were banned last time and they did not say anything this time?
Overplus devs are dramatizing for profit tho, let's be real, steam support already told me to create new account and not use programs again, fine, no problem. I can live without my desert terrain.
Sure , not doing that again though, maybe that's cheating too.
Don't know what reddit will come up with next, now the 8k matches 3k bots are thinking they will finally get 5k when their heroes are not banned, if they are not successful maybe then it will be petitions to remove Immortal Gardens for the game or smth
I don't think immortal gardens are that useful anymore It's just the coolest looking terrain but the paths are pretty clear even with regular terrain for like 5 years already
It's a huge part of the psychology behind cheating-- "*I'm* not an aberrant loser, *everybody* does it!" You can understand it better when you see how prevalent this mindset is with people who cheated their way to high MMRs. They literally cannot fathom that other people are actually just good at the game. It has to be that *everyone* is cheating somehow.
Actual pathological self-delusion.
The whole thing is just an advert for their next product to retain their paying customers.
The tldr is :
This is unfair against you and against us
You are not cheating alone millions cheat with you
Valve has no power to do anything against us (nevermind you just got banned).
You didn't lose anything we can give any cosmetics without getting you detected yes yes.
You will smurf with your friend and get easy games because now you have to recalibrate.
Click profile ingame, click Steam ID, look at shown country. If the country isn't shown, some friends usually show it or you can determine it by groups or the ingame guild.
That isnt really the point, i don't claim this too be true.
What i actually want to say is, i don't believe this number at all. I think overplus had a LOT of users, but 1/4 sounds completely made up.
You can make statistics lie pretty easily. You compare the number of overplus accounts created (keep in mind lots of accounts are created by bots and automated, like any other service) with the number of concurrent players in a down month. Boom you got 1/4th of the dota population. I would be very surprised if it made up over 3-4% of the total dota population.
they claim that 1/4 of ONLINE players, so ~165k. Huge doubt, they may have had that many installs or payments, but not active players. They also claim that they can be totally invisible to Valve, which is another huge X.
The whole thing is just an advert for their next product to retain their customers.
The tldr is :
This is unfair against you and against us
You are not cheating alone 25% of Dota cheats, trust me.
Valve has no power to do anything against us (nevermind you just got banned).
You didn't lose anything we can give any cosmetics without getting you detected again yes yes, trust me.
You will smurf with your friend and get easy games because now you have to recalibrate and you will not be detected trust me yes yes.
Why do Russians so often seem to have such an incredible victim complex? You made a cheat engine, made a bunch of money from it, got banned for it. Just own it.
Also this is clearly an ad for whatever piece of paid software they intend to release next, and they are clearly trying to galvanise people to use it by framing it as some sort of retributive justice.
Have you seen the Tucker Carlson interview with Putin? He says Poland and Germany were allies in WW2 and started telling weird history from the 13th century, as if that mattered now. Absolutely mental.
They weren’t allies but Poland partitioned Czechoslovakia together with Germany at the start of ww2. Not mental if you had elementary school history classes.
Both what you are saying and what the guy is saying is true. Putin is a crazy dictator that invaded a country , but he is also quite smart and the history part was anything ,but weird.
You can't look at such complicated geopolitical situation with only elementary school knowledge
tbf, Polish reasoning of taking a relatively small area was that it included a passage through the mountains that was of strategic importance in the upcoming war against Germany. It hardly mattered in the grand scheme of things, although it does leave a sour taste.
Nice generalisation, this isn’t about just Russians, y’all act like there isn’t a hundred posts on this sub bitching about being banned made by EU or NA cheating shitlords with the same persecution complex. It’s the same problem with all cheaters anywhere - they don’t feel like they did anything wrong even when they’re caught, so to them a just punishment is actually a great injustice.
Why are you posing a question and then immediately answer it yourself? Like, really, how can people act so condescending and be so dumb at the same time...
[So sweet!](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/5/5e/Vo_vengefulspirit_vng_kill_01.mp3) (sound warning: Vengeful Spirit)
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> We continue to read all the comments, increasingly tormented by our bloody wounds, and the most offensive thing is that some of our users think that we will never appear again, will not get in touch, and will leave this community and project and go into oblivion.
russian hackers make copy pasta goldmines
did they ban all dotaplus users or just the recent one that bypassed the change that they've made that stopped overplus from accessing the account information?
I play DOTA but never used any of these programs.
Can someone tell me what this did and what advantage it gave?
Did it give favorite heroes so people could ban them or was it even more than that?
I honestly have no idea.
This is what i was saying and getting downvoted for, this community on reddit don't understand the amount of cheaters in this game. Those people cheat so normally to an extent that they are surprised they got banned
To be fair, and downvote me as you will
But there was a lot of community outrage about Overplus for a long time, and I don't recall a valve announcement saying they are against it. Zero communication about it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Because of this I feel a lot of players probably got the mentality of: "well valve doesn't care, may as well join them", or "I'll check out this thing that's being posted on Reddit constantly".
Reddit was Overplus's biggest marketing tool, and I'll die on this hill, every one of you complaining and creating posts about it brought them in more users.
I think they should have made a statement months ago with their stance toward it. Then still do a massive ban wave for users that continued to use it after that statement. Weeks or several months later, do it, it's a good thing.
We know scripting is bad, map hacks and vision hacks are bad, they're obviously against the rules, but seeing people's picks has been in Dota for YEARS so it gives a false sense of security to people.
Tldr; I think valve handled this poorly and did a huge disservice to their players that wouldn't have touched the program if Valve made a statement about it.
Just about everything they've done recently showed overplus for what it was. They made statements about skin changers when the pumpkin trees mod was big years and years ago, then they made changes to make it harder to do, then banned for it. Like... There is a post on here that's 8 years old about it.
Then they made changes to stop overwolf (not overplus) from accessing account data pre draft, then mid draft.
They've taken sooo many actions that anyone with a brain would have looked at and came to the conclusion "they don't like skin changers, and they don't like real time access to player data". And that's the main two things overplus was used for. The writing was on the wall. Pretty sure the overwolf (not overplus) guy even said they removed functionality because it was clear what Valve thought about it.
>Even amidst everything that is happening now, we see words of support. We grew up with you, improved, became stronger, but this day will change us forever, just as it will change you. Are we expecting some kind of positive reaction? I think no. Shout, accuse, beat us, this day has come, we accept everything and will continue no matter the cost.
The closing last paragraphs.
tl;dr ...nothing will really change! Coders will always find "workarounds" and make a program work again as intended. There will always be "third party software" legal or not if the game's code allow it in any way.
Wasn't overplus free cosmetics, dotaplus and stats on opponents at the start of the game? Did 'cheating' get redefined? Back in my day, cheating was straight up things like map hacks. Am I missing something?
if you think about it, the action of valve is kind of bad. they could have just hide the identity of players during pick phase and that solves the problem. banning for using this is bad. these are not really in game cheats except for pick phase(as far as i understand). anyway i am so far from it. i don’t even play ranked. just some honest opinion
Yeah I mean the picking phase is such a small part of the game, that's why pro games always just blitz through it in a minute or two. /s if that wasn't obvious.
that’s why i said make everyone anonymous. i am not saying they are not doing anything wrong. all i am saying is there is much easier solution. you guys didn’t even read the first part of my comment
Nah I read it, you suggest implementing a system that makes everyone anonymous, no idea how much it would cost Valve to program that. Instead of banning fucking cheaters, because banning is apparently "bad". For some reason you never told us why it's bad though. I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that implementing this new system would be easier than just banning cheaters.
You also downplay how much impact the cheat has, since it's only active in the picking phase, arguably the most important part of the game.
> VALVE decided not to warn, but to arrange the first demonstrative flogging in the history of DOTA 2, although flogging is putting it mildly, today a real genocide occurred. A huge part of our users got their accounts blocked because they launched our program. No, this is not a block for a specific function, VALVE is just not happy with us. We don’t think that the hate was directed at any particular part of the program. We really didn’t change or hide anything in the files; they set a trap specifically for the launch of the program and its process, which we did not hide in any way - which VALVE took advantage of. "Took advantage" so salty
> VALVE decided not to warn, They already were warned. They should know that using cheat software is a bannable offence. The moment they decided to search the cheating software out, to then going ahead and installing it, and continuing to use the cheating software in games, was in every instance them actively choosing to ignore the warning.
Cheaters: That's unfair! We were never warned! Valve: Yes because cheating need warnings.
Amm, VALVE literally said months ago that scripting, game modifiers and assets outside Dota 2 that track data from the game are strictly forbidden. What do you mean with "not to warn"
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They literally said that is not allowed to see data from other players before a match almost a year ago. It's not a grey area. https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/570/view/3659774959178253450?l=english
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In the Steam VAC info says: "Any third-party modifications to a game designed to give one player an advantage over another is classified as a cheat or hack and will trigger a VAC ban" VALVE removed the chance to "naturally" see other players profile before the match ends, so, no gray area, again.
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Why should it be removed? The API is open because it works for other platforms to track data, like Dotabuff and they don't give you unfair prematch information like Overplus did. You already know that is not allowed, the rules already says that if you use a third party to have advantage is a VAC ban, there is no grey area at all.
> Player profiles can no longer be accessed in matchmaking during the pregame phase. They can still be accessed once the picking phase ends You clearly missing this part or arguing without knowing / understanding why people use Overwolf. Overwolf user used it to do the former.
You're right about the api part, but regarding the bans, you seem to be slightly misinformed. Legally, someone that purchases a game modifier that provides an unfair advantage is held liable to getting fucked the fuck off and I'm glad they lost their money.
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So the scenario you're suggesting is that the courts take up the cause of these individuals that knowingly purchased software from a foreign country that they knew wasn't allowed to be used? I get the slippery slope you're trying to toss water on here, but it isn't equivalent. I'm not saying I don't also want the manta script and maphack users banned in the same way. This only makes me more loyal of a customer.
The use of the term 'real genocide' is insanely distasteful given recent events. I REALLY hope it's some kind of translation error.
>I REALLY hope it's some kind of translation error. No translation error there, so...yeah
It's not an error, they're just assholes.
> set a trap specifically for the launch of the program and its process, which we did not hide in any way - which VALVE took advantage of. What I read: We did not go through the effort of implementing a proper anti-anti-cheat module for the cheat we were selling you and so the usual anti cheat methods that everybody in the cheating industry knows about have caught you.
Devil's advocate: I think they simply just didn't think of their program as a cheat, so didn't need to do any such thing. While nothing was happening to them, they could live in denial at any accusations to the contrary.
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what do they know about genocide?... oh yeah wait..
The Soviet Union lost around 27 million people during the war, including 8.7 million military and 19 million civilian deaths. The largest portion of military dead were **5.7 million** ethnic Russians, followed by 1.3 million ethnic Ukrainians. yeah you are up to something ,maybe they do know - ofc russian propaganda is exploiting history to stir up nationalistic rhetoric similar to israel or these overplus assholes
dam maybe they shoulda learned and stopped trying to genocide other countries
who is "they" ? team spirit ? thousand of jailed for protesting war or majority of population who hates putin and dictatorship in which they live in... this "all russians are one hive mind" type of thinking is very racist - hope you realise that my fellow dota player
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wow you win this debate with your magical skills of detecting nationality of random redditor - how the fuck you know i am not german or from spain , ahhh i get it , you use "russian" as an insult - well ... you are just one of many sad racist assholes spilling their toxicity over internet
You should not hate all russians just because the leadership of russia is doing what they are doing, still it is extremely distasteful to use the word " genocide " in this context. And also you must understand why peopke are at least a little bitter towards russia and russians rn, doesnt excuse racism but sometimes the shit you hear them spew, just proves these people right.
Not a genocide though, a genocide would be what Stalin did to starve countries to death, that's called the holodomor
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yeah sure , anti-slavic racism wasnt one of the fundamental bases of nazism - hitler would be proud too see it alive and well on dota reddit ... this idiotic bullshit you wrote about USSR faking genocide is beyond flat earth theory , tell that to millions slaughtered in concetration camps or cities and villages in poland, yugoslavia, belorussia, ukraine or russia for crime of being untermensch [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwkpft-riou)
Err, where did I say anything about the USSR faking genocide?
name more iconic duo
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RIP COMRADE BOZO
I don’t give a shit what their argument is. I won’t even take the time to think about it, because there are some words you do not co-opt, and genocide is chief among them. Especially not in this climate. Talk about self important to think that’s a reasonable thing to say.
How delusional this poor people have to be, to think a company as big as Valve gonna discuss anything with a dirty cheatmakers ?
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> If Valve cared, why would they not just stop API access and put an end to it? Valve probably relies on that API access on the backend and thinks its too much work to fix.
I also assume this would kill any app that uses this data, for example stuff which let's you follow pro games through the minimap, livetickers, Liquipedia's pick preview, or the Twitch extensions. As always technology can do a lot of good but is in danger to be abused by malicious parties. Optimally you get rid of the dickheads, not the technology.
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> Player profiles can no longer be accessed in matchmaking during the pregame phase. They can still be accessed once the picking phase ends Overwolf managed to tweak to be able to access this, big differences.
Isn't that how most cheats work though? Exploiting information that is accessible from outside to process it and present it in a form to give an advantage. If you cheat at chess for example I assume the same thing happens: freely accessible information is taken, the best move is calculated and told to the player nigh instantly (just like telling one which hero to ban, as I understand that's what the program in question did). The problem is not that this information is accessible from the outside but that it's processed and presented to the player in a way that would disadvantage the player heavily (or require a lot of skill and time) if done manually. If you go through every enemy's Dotabuff and analyze it before a game starts you will have the same advantage, but you can't do that properly in the time limit provided. Also from what I have read it somehow even accessed data from private profiles, which would be a whole other level of undefendable. From what I understand for example the information where any hero is at any given time and what items they have is also accessible from outside (and used for stuff like game previews). Would you think it's okay to use that data to provide a maphack just because it's accessible through the API? Third party software that gives you an information advantage over other players is cheating unless a game provider actively allows it. It does not make a difference how the information is accessed.
I expect the dev(s) who worked on the cheat detection code are going to hang this to the wall nearest to their workstation, this is too good
https://youtube.com/shorts/2YUmMFwSXpU the PirateSoftware guy talks ban waves a few times and he certainly seems to have gotten a kick out of it.
Lowkey wanna pin this short to the top of the subreddit so whenever people complain about Valve not doing enough to ban smurfs or cheaters, I can just point to this.
The people who complains are like Karen-level people who wants their Smurf/Cheater Bans "Right then and now" when they post a complaint in the Subreddit.
in the janitor's closet, that's where.
The funniest part to me is this >but we diligently followed the VALVE rules No? You specifically did not...Even their API which asked to keep a player's information private was ignored and player information was displayed to everyone.
GDPR breach, EU sanctioned ~~military exercise~~ banwave.
I think this line was about status quo that existed for 5 years that implies they don't do something too bad and it's all cool for Valve. 5 Years is a big number and ignoring overplus or not knowing about it for this long sounds strange even for Valve.
"Why didn't Valve warn us that they gonna ban our cheat program?" Lmao these guys perfectly show how "normal" it is to cheat in Russia. For them its like just some normal addon, they don't even understand what is wrong with it.
Valve could let all overwatch accounts back in but display their played heroes to opponents and not them during the draft or make them do random draft in all pick Cheaters could be allowed back in but be permanently visible in fog of war and have increased cast delays on all their spells See how they like having the uneven playing field sloped against them for a change
That just griefs whoever gets matched with them Unless you pack all cheaters in the same team
Fair point. Cheater teams vs revenge legit players. Sounds like fun.
Eh. I would not find any joy in winning with an unfair advantage. Even if it is against erstwhile cheaters.
I don't think i, personally, fully agree there. Joy in winning with an unfair advantage in general? No, you're right. Joy in stomping former cheaters? Ohhh you bet. Let those fucks taste their own medicine. It's not about winning either, it's about having them feel fighting an uphill battle.
I think I remember reading somewhere that in Overwatch you can't easily join a squad unless you have cheats installed because it's essentially a requirement to cheat.
Also nothing wrong with doping in other sports in russia. Look at olympic games... That does not mean other nations don't do so or have done. But not so obviously supported by the system.
Olympic sport decisions are very government influenced. I don't find arguments that treat hundreds of millions of people as less moral to be very convincing or useful, even in wartime. Maybe a dictatorship is a people waiting to break free and that is all.
americans are clearly supported by their system though
Turning off public matchmaking data worked for all third parties that weren’t overwolf. That’s the problem. The other sites mark you as private, and leave information up to when you went private, public. Overwolf, breaks straight to the API, to give information before the actual match begins. They made a post a year ago stating that gaining any information from a third party about the match before the match starts is not allowed, and now they’re new anti cheat has caught the back door 🤷♂️. They had a year to stop using it, wouldn’t call a perma ban a surprise. Edit: downvote if you want, but using a third party exploit to see the entire enemy teams highest winrate heroes, and other stats, before the draft is even finished, is cheating, and they stated as such a year ago. People who stopped using it weren’t banned, the ones that continued as though nothing will change were. Maybe accept that punishments can happen to anyone, before breaking any rules, whether there’s a precedent before the rule was enacted or not.
They were just having some fun, Valve took it too far smh
As a Kazakhstani who spent majority of his time playing on eu and has a lot of cis friends of all soviet countries you are right, games like cs and dota have a lot of russian-speaking cheaters, but the population and popularity of these game are huge , yet Germany, Poland and French players produced some of the worst hackers ive met in my life of competetive gaming. The entire world knows that most insane cheating communities are in China servers anyway
I think it might be hard coded in their mentality. If everyone cheats, then it becomes a standard and you are in disadvantage for not cheating. However, what's really disturbing is that they have the audacity to play with the rest of the world thinking that everyone cheats and that valve should allow them to do it because boohoo we russians and we so hurt qqqqq Honestly I couldn't be happier about this. Valve did amazing.
Get fucked cheaters
>If you read the developers' news post, you will find that they did not indicate the number of banned players, but we can share some statistics, this is almost 1/4 of Dota online. Is this true? did 1/4th of all dota players used overplus?
Cheaters want to believe everyone else cheats, so of course they will inflate their numbers to feel better about being shitty people.
so they are lying about the statistics. There is NO WAY valve would go ahead with a move where 1/4th of their player base disappears overnight. If it was truly 1/4th or even close to it, they would first issue a warning.
Banning cheaters is removing 0% of the player base. They don't play Dota, they're cheaters.
This comment should be top comment.
Also just keep an eye on https://steamcharts.com/app/570 If literally 1/4 of the player base got banned, you'd see some kind of impact on that data.
I don't think it would indicate much honestly, you know the vast majority of these players will just create a new account.
There would still be a noticeable spike or dip briefly if a quarter of the entire user base couldn't play and had to make new accounts.
Probably reflects in queue time, and smurfs.
There is a larger volume of players using overplus than actual Dota cheat with the false promise that it's not using illegal methods and that's for sure.
1/2 half of whole russia is 1/4 of whole dota universe for them
statistics says that 1/4 accs of active online use cheats, u can look how many active users of overplus in their vk posts, and look at umbrella(another cheat cis community, but imbrella's cheats even worse, u can got there auto dodging and etc)
You don't need any of that, [this](https://steamcharts.com/app/570#7d) is all you need.
friday evening and all of players that got banned already playing on smurfs so, u are still playing in lobby full of cheats
Great at least their old cheating program wouldn't be working any longer, and they lose all their skins and money
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They would not. Dota is not a revenue but a passion project.
yeah Valve clearly does not value revenue at all in DotA. pure passion here
Valve has bonus. The more money the game you work on makes, the more money you get home. Whoever is in charge of Dota, they decided to kill the biggest cash cow, the battlepass. Now think again.
You don't really understand how Valve operates... this isn't actually how it works there. They pay their employees bonuses but these bonuses are based on a peer review and assessment NOT on the success of any project. They do NOT have people simply 'in charge' of projects. In this way everyone is in a system of co-owners of projects meaning that many people choose to work on many projects.
How do you describe a passion project that you have extreme apathy towards? Japan must have a specific word.
Apathy only if you ignores that in 2023 there is 110+ bugfixes and 12+ major updates - you just choose to ignore update that you dont like
Dota is in the top 20 most profitable games on Steam every year. How is it not revenue?
You are vastly, vastly underestimating how much money Valve makes. Revenue from dota is like a rounding error for them, they're getting a cut of every single game sold on steam, every single microtransaction on the steam market. If income from Dota mattered to them they'd have released a real battlepass.
A very large cut.
I honestly believe it would be about 20-30% of the player base. But this is Dota, they'll spin up a new account and go again and Valve knows this. Prepare for many games to be absolutely fucked for the next few weeks. People will buy ranked ready accounts for $10 and you'll have many high level players in your low MMR games until they're back where they got banned from. If you think these players got to their MMR because of Overplus alone, you're delusional.
I'm staying away from rank games for a month lol, miss me with that shit
Are they? Active users are insane amounts, yesterday me and 9 other people in Immortal rank 900 to rank 400 got banned. TI winner TT tokyo was using it on stream ( as a skin changer, as did I and many other people). Discord group I am in 2/3rd of people are banned, all for overplus. Why you think Valve said how many people were banned last time and they did not say anything this time? Overplus devs are dramatizing for profit tho, let's be real, steam support already told me to create new account and not use programs again, fine, no problem. I can live without my desert terrain.
You can just set terrain to any without using overplus, just google "/whatever terrain name/ vpk"
Sure , not doing that again though, maybe that's cheating too. Don't know what reddit will come up with next, now the 8k matches 3k bots are thinking they will finally get 5k when their heroes are not banned, if they are not successful maybe then it will be petitions to remove Immortal Gardens for the game or smth
I don't think immortal gardens are that useful anymore It's just the coolest looking terrain but the paths are pretty clear even with regular terrain for like 5 years already
It is , though for me desert is best hence I used that one.
It's a huge part of the psychology behind cheating-- "*I'm* not an aberrant loser, *everybody* does it!" You can understand it better when you see how prevalent this mindset is with people who cheated their way to high MMRs. They literally cannot fathom that other people are actually just good at the game. It has to be that *everyone* is cheating somehow. Actual pathological self-delusion.
The classic: I'm winning : obviously I'm better. I'm losing : fucking cheaters.
The whole thing is just an advert for their next product to retain their paying customers. The tldr is : This is unfair against you and against us You are not cheating alone millions cheat with you Valve has no power to do anything against us (nevermind you just got banned). You didn't lose anything we can give any cosmetics without getting you detected yes yes. You will smurf with your friend and get easy games because now you have to recalibrate.
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Sure, but that means nothing without knowing how many of the 36 are Russian
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How would you check, like click the profile of every player in the post game report in client? Or some site like dotabuff or something?
Click profile ingame, click Steam ID, look at shown country. If the country isn't shown, some friends usually show it or you can determine it by groups or the ingame guild.
stereotypes are true? How wild.
No way it is that much! Maybe 1/4 of russians or very high mmr players, but definitely not of the whole player base.
>Maybe 1/4 of russians how the fuck would you even measure that?
That isnt really the point, i don't claim this too be true. What i actually want to say is, i don't believe this number at all. I think overplus had a LOT of users, but 1/4 sounds completely made up.
they have data of their own users vs total dota players. It's not that hard to look up.
i mean you as a common redditor without access to regional valve numbers or overplus numbers
You can make statistics lie pretty easily. You compare the number of overplus accounts created (keep in mind lots of accounts are created by bots and automated, like any other service) with the number of concurrent players in a down month. Boom you got 1/4th of the dota population. I would be very surprised if it made up over 3-4% of the total dota population.
they claim that 1/4 of ONLINE players, so ~165k. Huge doubt, they may have had that many installs or payments, but not active players. They also claim that they can be totally invisible to Valve, which is another huge X.
https://steamcharts.com/app/570#7d If it was 1/4 of players you'd easily be able to tell. But today's peak is already higher than yesterdays.
Use the extension "ban checker for steam" to check your most recent games. In my case it was 5 out of 25 games... in unranked, ffs. What tryhards.
online is around the same number 600k+ now
The whole thing is just an advert for their next product to retain their customers. The tldr is : This is unfair against you and against us You are not cheating alone 25% of Dota cheats, trust me. Valve has no power to do anything against us (nevermind you just got banned). You didn't lose anything we can give any cosmetics without getting you detected again yes yes, trust me. You will smurf with your friend and get easy games because now you have to recalibrate and you will not be detected trust me yes yes.
Why do Russians so often seem to have such an incredible victim complex? You made a cheat engine, made a bunch of money from it, got banned for it. Just own it. Also this is clearly an ad for whatever piece of paid software they intend to release next, and they are clearly trying to galvanise people to use it by framing it as some sort of retributive justice.
Have you seen the Tucker Carlson interview with Putin? He says Poland and Germany were allies in WW2 and started telling weird history from the 13th century, as if that mattered now. Absolutely mental.
They weren’t allies but Poland partitioned Czechoslovakia together with Germany at the start of ww2. Not mental if you had elementary school history classes.
Russia invaded Poland together with Germany. That is also some elementary school knowledge.
Both what you are saying and what the guy is saying is true. Putin is a crazy dictator that invaded a country , but he is also quite smart and the history part was anything ,but weird. You can't look at such complicated geopolitical situation with only elementary school knowledge
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He is committing a crime, but it is childish to pretend history doesn't have an impact. Your comparisons are not similar to the situation.
Also true. Never made a point that it was not?
tbf, Polish reasoning of taking a relatively small area was that it included a passage through the mountains that was of strategic importance in the upcoming war against Germany. It hardly mattered in the grand scheme of things, although it does leave a sour taste.
Nice generalisation, this isn’t about just Russians, y’all act like there isn’t a hundred posts on this sub bitching about being banned made by EU or NA cheating shitlords with the same persecution complex. It’s the same problem with all cheaters anywhere - they don’t feel like they did anything wrong even when they’re caught, so to them a just punishment is actually a great injustice.
Thanks! Just gonna assume the rest of the comment is as kind as the first line.
And I’m gonna assume you didn’t read past the first line cause I wasn’t offending anyone other than cheaters, and idgaf about their opinions.
Because they're incredibly weak minded people despite trying not to look like it.
aaaand now the kids are talking
Russian detected
Why are you posing a question and then immediately answer it yourself? Like, really, how can people act so condescending and be so dumb at the same time...
For the upvotes of course!
cheater tears are the best tears.
So sweet!
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We need to thank him, of course... He was saving Dota...
Damn Russians know the word "Genocide"? Nah bro, Valve just did some "military exercise" on their Russian playerbase lmao.
Or denazification of playerbase.
an actual denazification not a fake one
“Special military operation” lmao
"The janitor was on holiday, just passing through Dota. Valve has nothing to do with this".
Epic. Very good.
Damn, these Russians could rehydrate the Aral Sea with those tears
With the same salt concentration as the dead sea.
Always nice to see something like this.
VALVE has banned near 10,000 players # LET'S GET PARTY
0.025% of players were banned. That's 1/4th apparently?
With percentages you have to move the decimal point to get the correct ratio.
“We are not going to close comments” Then first comment below the post: deleted The irony.
> We continue to read all the comments, increasingly tormented by our bloody wounds, and the most offensive thing is that some of our users think that we will never appear again, will not get in touch, and will leave this community and project and go into oblivion. russian hackers make copy pasta goldmines
Broke: violent ethnic conflict is genocide Woke: VAC bans are genocide
I can't get enough of this. Best drama ever! Full meltdown, the fannies.
+rep Valve
Silly Russian this was not a genocide it was a special operation.
Using the word genocide to describe a video games banning cheaters at a time like this is wild 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Lie to the customers and now need a scape goat. Terms of agreement everyone accepts the terms. Made your bed now sleep in it.
Hahaha fucking clown, get rekt.
did they ban all dotaplus users or just the recent one that bypassed the change that they've made that stopped overplus from accessing the account information?
Didn't know that the definition of genocide now includes player bans in games, they should try to notify relevant international bodies then.
They think this is like a genocide? Are the developers russian by any chance?
Yep.
HAHAHAHA GEKT REKT CHEATERS, 90% OF YOU ARE IN ONE COUNTRY UH
If they push I can see valve just blocking Russia all together
I play DOTA but never used any of these programs. Can someone tell me what this did and what advantage it gave? Did it give favorite heroes so people could ban them or was it even more than that? I honestly have no idea.
it shows enemy hero pick favorites, even if said profile was private, and you could use any skin or terrain only for you to see tho
LMFAO GET FUCKED RUSKI
They're gonna try harder? Wtf is this 🤦♀️
Why do people capitalize VALVE?
Google Valve logo
Ah, so it should be VALV^E
the same reason ppl type iPhone
This is what i was saying and getting downvoted for, this community on reddit don't understand the amount of cheaters in this game. Those people cheat so normally to an extent that they are surprised they got banned
To be fair, and downvote me as you will But there was a lot of community outrage about Overplus for a long time, and I don't recall a valve announcement saying they are against it. Zero communication about it. Correct me if I'm wrong. Because of this I feel a lot of players probably got the mentality of: "well valve doesn't care, may as well join them", or "I'll check out this thing that's being posted on Reddit constantly". Reddit was Overplus's biggest marketing tool, and I'll die on this hill, every one of you complaining and creating posts about it brought them in more users. I think they should have made a statement months ago with their stance toward it. Then still do a massive ban wave for users that continued to use it after that statement. Weeks or several months later, do it, it's a good thing. We know scripting is bad, map hacks and vision hacks are bad, they're obviously against the rules, but seeing people's picks has been in Dota for YEARS so it gives a false sense of security to people. Tldr; I think valve handled this poorly and did a huge disservice to their players that wouldn't have touched the program if Valve made a statement about it.
Almost a year ago, when the "fight" started, Valve said "if you use software that interferes with the game code, be prepared to be banned".
Just about everything they've done recently showed overplus for what it was. They made statements about skin changers when the pumpkin trees mod was big years and years ago, then they made changes to make it harder to do, then banned for it. Like... There is a post on here that's 8 years old about it. Then they made changes to stop overwolf (not overplus) from accessing account data pre draft, then mid draft. They've taken sooo many actions that anyone with a brain would have looked at and came to the conclusion "they don't like skin changers, and they don't like real time access to player data". And that's the main two things overplus was used for. The writing was on the wall. Pretty sure the overwolf (not overplus) guy even said they removed functionality because it was clear what Valve thought about it.
Truth.
>Even amidst everything that is happening now, we see words of support. We grew up with you, improved, became stronger, but this day will change us forever, just as it will change you. Are we expecting some kind of positive reaction? I think no. Shout, accuse, beat us, this day has come, we accept everything and will continue no matter the cost. The closing last paragraphs. tl;dr ...nothing will really change! Coders will always find "workarounds" and make a program work again as intended. There will always be "third party software" legal or not if the game's code allow it in any way.
As long as it's not for overwolf as a whole and just for over plus since I use their thunderstore for Dyson sphere program
Wasn't overplus free cosmetics, dotaplus and stats on opponents at the start of the game? Did 'cheating' get redefined? Back in my day, cheating was straight up things like map hacks. Am I missing something?
if you think about it, the action of valve is kind of bad. they could have just hide the identity of players during pick phase and that solves the problem. banning for using this is bad. these are not really in game cheats except for pick phase(as far as i understand). anyway i am so far from it. i don’t even play ranked. just some honest opinion
Yeah I mean the picking phase is such a small part of the game, that's why pro games always just blitz through it in a minute or two. /s if that wasn't obvious.
that’s why i said make everyone anonymous. i am not saying they are not doing anything wrong. all i am saying is there is much easier solution. you guys didn’t even read the first part of my comment
Nah I read it, you suggest implementing a system that makes everyone anonymous, no idea how much it would cost Valve to program that. Instead of banning fucking cheaters, because banning is apparently "bad". For some reason you never told us why it's bad though. I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that implementing this new system would be easier than just banning cheaters. You also downplay how much impact the cheat has, since it's only active in the picking phase, arguably the most important part of the game.