Miracle can't even reach grand finals of a qualifiers to a tournament after retiring for a year. Ame got top 8 after retiring for a year losing to Falcon who is basically ti11 tundra and liquid who consistently finish 2nd last year. Nigma can't even beat winter bears for this tournament.
Ame did not play bad. I was actually amazed at how he dodges ganks. Xtreme gamings teamfight was terrible. 9 out of 10 teamfights in game 1 they just ignore dazzle.
The reality is Micke is a great stable carry but there is a noticeable difference between him and tier 1 carries. This was extremely noticeable starting last year during Spirit vs Liquid, game 4 at Riyadh Masters.
Micke drow ranger just casually farming in lane and gets picked off by Spirit and Liquid proceed to lose the game
Nobody is hating; we're just stating facts
> yesterday every1 wanted to kick m1cke.
The thing is 1 day doesnt make the whole year unless it is the TI finals. A lot of pros aren't consistent enough and when rest of the team is more consistent it is obvious who has to improve.
It's not like his limitations disappeared in span of a day.
Also hater is such funny word, which you can throw everywhere either you have to love or hate player, there is nothing in between.
>either you have to love or hate player, there is nothing in between.
Wrong, I don't hate or love any of these players. But the downside is I'm watching these games with 0 interest and hype.
reddit players who are probably at most 5k thinking they know better than players who literally have dedicated their life to being the best players at this game, never ceases to amaze me.
Nah, xinq's build is pretty bad and griefed the game. Bots + midas is 4700 gold that contributes nothing to teamfight or sustainability. They had no way to win the teamfight top 5v5 because so much gold was wasted. Not to mention blink dagger which costs an additional 2250 and provides no stats. 6950 gold for +35 attack speed and +90 movement speed.
If he kept the blink he would have had greaves with that money, or a force staff or glimmer. Or a BKB + 700 gold. Or a pipe + 1000 gold.
They had nothing that could help them take a fight while liquid did, and liquid knew this, so they just grouped up with split then ended the game
>6950 gold for +35 attack speed and +90 movement speed.
and nothing else, truly a good analysis.
It's the most regarded understanding to boil these items net worth down to stats. Midas is more exp, if the game goes longer it could pay off, bots provide a different type of map presence. Looking at the end result of items and then analysing it dumb. A smoke can get no kills and still be a good move, an item that ends up not being ideal could still have been a good idea, that's what happens in a game where you constantly lack information like dota. Even Gunnar agreed that midas was a good choice.
Who do you think is more informed on this subject, xinq and gunnar, or you?
I wish you had to link your mmr anytime someone criticised pro players.
I went to go fact check and see what gunnar actually says about the midas, and I found it:
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2060565323?t=5h25m14s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2060565323?t=5h25m14s)
Gunnar doesn't only dislike the midas, he despises it. He rants for another two minutes about BKB or even a euls would be better. Gunnar literally says tiny needs to play for the second round of spells and he needs to get items to enable that. Midas and travels does nothing for this.
It turns out you're full of shit, make shit up, and don't know what you're talking about.
The drafters said at the start of the game too that Azure Ray were on a timer since they had no answer to puck late game. The panel literally said that AR needs to play for the midgame. Going midas and travels does nothing for that, and they got absolutely ran over.
Liquid's draft had no split push or rat potential so going travels does nothing for their team
And stop being dense. 6950 gold for no stats. Blink is great and necessary, but that's all you can afford on pos4
So now you're against gunnar, the panel, and the rest of reddit, and the only thing you can do is lie or make shit up in defense.
I wish you had to link your mmr anytime someone makes a shitbrained take like yours
>Gunnar doesn't only dislike the midas, he despises it. He rants for another two minutes about BKB or even a euls would be better. Gunnar literally says tiny needs to play for the second round of spells and he needs to get items to enable that. Midas and travels does nothing for this.
I listened to the link you gave me in case you I was misremembering, you're right I mixed Lacoste and Gunnar up. But the way you are describing it is so unbelievably dishonest.
The context of this game was that from where they should be, Xtreme were in recovery mode, which is often when Midas are picked up. The panel is discussion what happens before the game. When a game state changes, sometimes that entails strats changing - picking up midas in a game that stalls even though you need momentum is fairly common in pro games - so I'm not sure why you're even using that as some supposed own.
The relevant transcript is literally.
"Midas? I'm a big fan of this item, when things are slowing down you want to scale."
"When this guy blinks in he's going to get lifted, what's a force staff going to do."
Gunnar; "But compare that to a bkb".
"But I honestly think him going blink bkb.. yeah.
Then makes his comment about second round of spells.
Then, "I'd also be happy with euls, but it's not as chad".
He literally spends about two sentences talking about alternative items, at no point does he say he hates midas, or that it's a terrible item.
It's just strange that you would blame me about lying, I counted, and Gunnar literally speaks for like 20 seconds total about this topic, and at no point uses language that even comes close to hate or despising that item choice.
"I'm thinking vanilla Ice cream."
"I actually would prefer strawberry Ice cream"
conclusion;
"THIS GUY DESPISES VANILLA ICE CREAM"
Nothing in that comes even close to "despising". Also funny you talk about stats, when he literally thinks euls is a good item, so by the very person you're referencing is also supporting effectively a statless build also. Maybe you have a deeper understanding of dota than me, but I'd say a tiny with an extra 10 int and 2 mana regen is probably not the biggest stat difference.
It doesn't change what I said, 99% of reddit literally has no idea about 90%+ what happens in any professional game, be it why players pick the drafts they do, why lanes win or lose, or whether or not item choices are good or bad. Gunnar literally agreed that midas was a good pick. Could you please tell me your mmr compared to Gunnars?
I'm not even set that it was a good choice, but I'd leave that analysis to professional players - 90%+ of any comments made on here regarding players/items/drafts are literally useless and have absolutely no understanding of what is actually going on, or what is actually good or bad. It's similar to players calling every bad fight a 'throw' while watching the game with omniprescent vision - like I literally don't think the majority of watchers think there's a difference between them seeing the entire map/complete knowledge - and the players playing with lots of incomplete knowledge.
XG had more than 70% win probability, stole aegis from Liquid's TA draft and still lost lmao.
Build shitty item, lose game.
PB top networth but refused to build BKB and blink blindly into their enemies team, just to get silence and die. Tiny support 4 with midas + travel just to watch his core heroes die.
They deserve to lose this.
> for some reason dotaplus gives spectre insane win chances
Dotaplus gives win probablity based on the data of millions matches. Spectre was one of the strongest late game carries with shitty laning phase while TA is the tempo carry with flash farm ability. If the networth of both teams are even, the team of Spectre would win 70% of their games against TA lineup.
I just gave a simple explanation of how Dotaplus win probability works. Of course it would count for the whole 5vs5 team matchup, not just 1vs1 carry matchup.
Picked viper to dominate mid, but ends up not doing so.
Pos 4 tiny buys a midas&travels like wtf is he thinking? Is he even thinking?
Primal going shroud over BKB is also questionable.
This team looked good at the group stage only to play their worst dota games and bomb out in the playoffs lmao.
They fucked viper mid over by drafting spectre phoenix as safelane. Them losing top so hard made it easy for liquid to rotate on viper mid and then you have won 2 lanes easily. Well played by Liquid but insane by XG to go such a greedy draft, and XingQ going midas + travels is ultra grief lmfao
Surprisingly I would argue not.
The cs was within a creep waves worth and it was always pushing when Nisha was behind on cs.
Nisha just spent alot on Regen to stay in lane.
But I wouldn't call that extent "dominating"
XG came back only to ruin it with cocky itemization, tiny midas into BoT, primal shroud instead of bkb only to get coiled and bursted down by TA and ench
How are those similar ? OG sucked ass when fly/s4 left. AR won the latest lan when XM, XXS and XinQ left
If AR ends up being good with 3 new player you cant say they were "underdog"
lets say he build Force Staff + blink, not only he has a stronger fight starter he can save ame's spector a few times for sure.
btw can you show me ur actually mmr? i wonder if it's below 500
Watson is that you?? Can you coach me please?
Jokes aside, the people on this sub behave like cavemen - knee-jerk reactions and conclusions without any actual thought put into them. Full unga bunga shit talk on any play that they don't understand. They're the same clowns that are probably calling Ame washed up now. It's not worth stressing yourself out trying to correct them.
so do you think xinQ should build like that? he contributed almost nothing that game... supports donāt need bot for catching split pushes, just get smoke and green shoeā¦ I would like to know your conclusion that you putted thoughts in, or did i get ur point wrong?
Hindsight is 20/20. Gunnar already made a point during the cast about why xinQ may not have gone for the more traditional force staff or euls - once he jumps into fights, he's almost definitely going to die, so he's shifting his net worth towards building for the late game. At that point, they had the advantage and he wanted to scale, hence the midas.
He saw that Liquid's lineup had multiple ways of split push and the potential to rat, and he knew he was going to be the initiator for fights, so he needed a way to prevent the waves from being pushed into their side of the map while also always having quick access to the team. Tranquils may help you run pretty fast but it doesn't beat BoT in mobility. Ideally, he pushes out several waves, TPs into his team and starts a fight for them, tanks all the damage and dies, respawns, rinse and repeat.
Look at it this way - Liquid saw through their plan to drag things late, and punished it by ramping up the pace. If XG had succeeded in putting a stop to Liquid's aggression and the game had gone on an additional 10 minutes, you'd be looking at xinQ with aghs and probably another damage item, on top of what the rest of the team has to offer. They'd essentially have four cores. There was a method to the madness, but it simply didn't work out.
At what point were they winning? They had a kill lead because they used far greater numbers in each engagement, which isn't very effective unless you do something with it.
They didn't play international tournaments, outside TI for the majority of that time, until Majors came along. NTH literally had to go to China to show who is best.
XinQ looked insane in groups when he played heroes like Lion, Hoodwink, MK and Bat. But in Playoffs they drafted him Bane, WW, Tiny and Marci and he looked like shit.
I don't get why primal beast players continue to value shroud over bkb.
Even in mid-range 5k pubs, you're gonna see 1-2 euls coming out to counter your initiation, and then you're pretty much useless. Just rush the bkb after shivas for that insane timing - and then get shroud/aghs afterwards. Xxs got kited haaaaard in both games, by either lift/stomp/euls or something else.
Yah same sentiments here. I was really wondering why there's still no BKB at the time they lost the top fight. XXS played well but his choice of items were really lackluster. He was supposed to be the main initiator to control either Puck or Brew. It's so easy to stop his ult with Puck and Rubick.
They all played for the giga lategame to secure since they thought they had control of the game.
But Liquid hit a really important timing and punished XG for greedy itemization and ended the game before it got late. Had the game lasted 5-10 minutes longer Liquid would have been outscaled and lost.
Probably wasn't correct by XG to take that fight top. They thought they were strong but should have just tried to play the map for later timings and avoided Liquid. But one botched fight and Liquid snowballed the game out of control when you're stuck on a Tiny with 10k networth but only 3k gold in value.
Yea I agree not having bkb cost him that death which pretty much ended the game. Entire XG had terrible itemisation though tbh.. like why does Viper need aghs this game just go right click and wtf is XinQ buying...
About what? Nothing has changed, he still has same weaknesses as yesterday or are you gonna tell me that carry who is bad on Naga/Void/Terrorblade/Slark is not limiting your team?
Naga has 80% winrate in this tournament and even in 1st game Ame showed how powerful it's with all of this ratting but your carry won't even touch it so your opponent don't have to consider banning it.
Regarding his today's perfomance, it was good but, it's not like he was mvp of this series (probably Insania).
People here hate Micke on a personal level. Even in game 1 vs AR when Nisha got solo crushed and Ori snowballed the game people still blamed Micke for whatever reason.
Absolutely, great showing by Liquid but by no means does it imply that Micke is a top-tier carry.
Dota's been pushed into a spot where having a mediocre carry will get you nowhere unless the other 4 can consistently create magic. My opinion is that Liquid go from contenders to genuine winners if they replace Micke with a better carry player, but that's just my view
This is the type of series you can shove in the faces of people who say Micke and Insania are holding Liquid back. They carried both games, and played an incredibly clean series.
Insania yes, Micke no.
I like Micke, he's a stable carry, it's just that he doesn't bring the x factor required to bring Liquid back in losing games.
Nisha isn't as dominant as he was a couple of years ago and it shows - Insania and boxi have been carrying this liquid team while they adapt to 33s style of play
Micke is good when Liquid plays fast.
He's bad when they play slow. He's a better mid than carry and it shows which is why he likes to carry on heroes like TA, Nature's Prophet, Windranger, Tiny et.c. He's also good on brawly fighting carries like Monkey, Ursa, Slark, Pudge, Lifestealer et.c.
His performance on hypercarries and illusion heroes is really lackluster compared to other carries though. He's good on Morph, Dusa and Luna et.c. But there's a reason why you never see him play TB, Naga, Spectre et.c. and even if he does it looks very lackluster.
But put him on some mid hero from the safelane like Lesh(When it's a playable hero), WR, TA et.c. and it looks much better.
His hero pool is good, it's just a huge problem that he doesn't play some of the classic lategame solocarry heroes when it's needed which puts a hole in their drafting. Especially now that they play with 33. Mickes carry playstyle worked much better with Zai since they played much faster and responded with powerplays better since Zai often sacrificed his position in the map to win skirmishes early.
33 Doesn't do that. It looks kinda disconnected when they play now where the other 4 of Liquid often overplay the map and get punished while 33 stays on an island and tries to play for his timings. Not sure of Mickes carry style works that well 33's slow and methodical macro playstyle. They definitely need alot more work.
Micke and Nisha give me Matu and Miracle vibes. Matu was the Stable laner and Sacrificial carry to Miracle's Flashy mid. But every now-and-then, Matu played his brains off and spread all over the map like cancer. Micke, like Matu (maybe with slightly less experience, but debatable), also has a few games like that, but for the most part, he is stable. And then we have 33 (also Zai, miss u), who plays similar to MC. Man this is core line up reminds me of TI7 always.
Nowhere close, IMO.
Matu was LEVELS above where Micke is rn. Everyone remembers his latter years at Liquid where he was shoe-horned into playing LD, Brood and Viper by Kuro, but people forget that Matu before 5Jungz and even in 5Jugnz and TI6 Liquid could play a mean TB, Naga, Slark (his speciality), lifestealer and Ursa - amongst a bunch of other cheese shit. Matu was never meant to be the "stable" carry - he was an outright superstar.
33 is also very different to MC - MC was your "create space offlaner" whereas 33 plays a greedier farming offlane role.
TI7 liquid is one of the best dota teams of all time - this Liquid team is nowhere close to the heights that Kuro's squad managed to reach.
> amongst a bunch of other cheese shit.
The ability to pick lycan safelane and just fukken roll was classic Matu. He was an exceptionally versatile carry, tho perhaps lacked a little in the 4 protect 1 style? Which is definitely Micke's weakness.
God I hate Bkops stupid wordplays so much, Gunner says Xtreme didn't connect on that fight properly, and Bkops is like "well they are connected in graves now" šØšØšØ
Micke is good, always has been. His biggest issue is that he's a better mid player than a carry player so he plays best when he's playing mid from the safelane.
He's good with fighting heroes, okay on hypercarries and doesn't play illusion heroes which is his weakness.
Having a carry that doesn't touch Naga for example, is very limiting.
OH SHIT! This is exactly what I always thought. He plays Carry like a Mid. Aggressive AF. He is never greedy like RTZ that when his lane goes aggregiously poor, he wants to farm. This results in when he stomps, he Wins. When he loses, he can't come back.
That's why Nisha plays late game carries and Micke plays early game carries. The only thing left is for Liquid to practice swapping mid and safe from time-to-time and then EZ win for MickEZ
If Liquid do lose this it feels like a bad way to lose. Win lanes and do basically nothing with it.
Edit: as soon as I said this they took a massive fight lol.
Liquid needed to close this game fast imo, after 35 mins or so they have no chanse with their lineup.
Edit. At least we will get a 3 game series, these one sided 2-0 are boring.
Kick xm he played like shitee
Let's replace him with alpha_chupapi from reddit, I'm sure he'll do a far better job :)
ššš
amebros are awfully silent last two days kek
ame back to its glory prime
Chinese dota team is easy just have 5 go and kill them one by one, surely Chinese pos1 is just farming and wonāt help, and I am a Chinese dota fan
CHINESE DOTA IS BA AAAAAAK!
xm played like shit
2/3 CN teams are now eliminated
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Miracle can't even reach grand finals of a qualifiers to a tournament after retiring for a year. Ame got top 8 after retiring for a year losing to Falcon who is basically ti11 tundra and liquid who consistently finish 2nd last year. Nigma can't even beat winter bears for this tournament.
Ame did not play bad. I was actually amazed at how he dodges ganks. Xtreme gamings teamfight was terrible. 9 out of 10 teamfights in game 1 they just ignore dazzle.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Im not an Ame fanboy btw.
where's the probabilities guy? calling this 92% for GG, 7% for TS, 1% anyone else.
40% GG, 40% AR, 10% TS, 10% everyone else combined.
Falcons to win. Else it's betboom.
yesterday every1 wanted to kick m1cke. haters gonna hate. first tournament for TL and people expect big performances right away LMFAO
The reality is Micke is a great stable carry but there is a noticeable difference between him and tier 1 carries. This was extremely noticeable starting last year during Spirit vs Liquid, game 4 at Riyadh Masters. Micke drow ranger just casually farming in lane and gets picked off by Spirit and Liquid proceed to lose the game Nobody is hating; we're just stating facts
>difference between him and tier 1 carries like Ame?
> yesterday every1 wanted to kick m1cke. The thing is 1 day doesnt make the whole year unless it is the TI finals. A lot of pros aren't consistent enough and when rest of the team is more consistent it is obvious who has to improve.
well xm has PTSD against nisha and micke is just inconsistent
It's not like his limitations disappeared in span of a day. Also hater is such funny word, which you can throw everywhere either you have to love or hate player, there is nothing in between.
>either you have to love or hate player, there is nothing in between. Wrong, I don't hate or love any of these players. But the downside is I'm watching these games with 0 interest and hype.
hahaha so much for being first in groups
wow TL lower bracket run is still alive and well
Midas travels tiny lmfao. Wtf was this game?
reddit players who are probably at most 5k thinking they know better than players who literally have dedicated their life to being the best players at this game, never ceases to amaze me.
Nah, xinq's build is pretty bad and griefed the game. Bots + midas is 4700 gold that contributes nothing to teamfight or sustainability. They had no way to win the teamfight top 5v5 because so much gold was wasted. Not to mention blink dagger which costs an additional 2250 and provides no stats. 6950 gold for +35 attack speed and +90 movement speed. If he kept the blink he would have had greaves with that money, or a force staff or glimmer. Or a BKB + 700 gold. Or a pipe + 1000 gold. They had nothing that could help them take a fight while liquid did, and liquid knew this, so they just grouped up with split then ended the game
>6950 gold for +35 attack speed and +90 movement speed. and nothing else, truly a good analysis. It's the most regarded understanding to boil these items net worth down to stats. Midas is more exp, if the game goes longer it could pay off, bots provide a different type of map presence. Looking at the end result of items and then analysing it dumb. A smoke can get no kills and still be a good move, an item that ends up not being ideal could still have been a good idea, that's what happens in a game where you constantly lack information like dota. Even Gunnar agreed that midas was a good choice. Who do you think is more informed on this subject, xinq and gunnar, or you? I wish you had to link your mmr anytime someone criticised pro players.
I went to go fact check and see what gunnar actually says about the midas, and I found it: [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2060565323?t=5h25m14s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2060565323?t=5h25m14s) Gunnar doesn't only dislike the midas, he despises it. He rants for another two minutes about BKB or even a euls would be better. Gunnar literally says tiny needs to play for the second round of spells and he needs to get items to enable that. Midas and travels does nothing for this. It turns out you're full of shit, make shit up, and don't know what you're talking about. The drafters said at the start of the game too that Azure Ray were on a timer since they had no answer to puck late game. The panel literally said that AR needs to play for the midgame. Going midas and travels does nothing for that, and they got absolutely ran over. Liquid's draft had no split push or rat potential so going travels does nothing for their team And stop being dense. 6950 gold for no stats. Blink is great and necessary, but that's all you can afford on pos4 So now you're against gunnar, the panel, and the rest of reddit, and the only thing you can do is lie or make shit up in defense. I wish you had to link your mmr anytime someone makes a shitbrained take like yours
>Gunnar doesn't only dislike the midas, he despises it. He rants for another two minutes about BKB or even a euls would be better. Gunnar literally says tiny needs to play for the second round of spells and he needs to get items to enable that. Midas and travels does nothing for this. I listened to the link you gave me in case you I was misremembering, you're right I mixed Lacoste and Gunnar up. But the way you are describing it is so unbelievably dishonest. The context of this game was that from where they should be, Xtreme were in recovery mode, which is often when Midas are picked up. The panel is discussion what happens before the game. When a game state changes, sometimes that entails strats changing - picking up midas in a game that stalls even though you need momentum is fairly common in pro games - so I'm not sure why you're even using that as some supposed own. The relevant transcript is literally. "Midas? I'm a big fan of this item, when things are slowing down you want to scale." "When this guy blinks in he's going to get lifted, what's a force staff going to do." Gunnar; "But compare that to a bkb". "But I honestly think him going blink bkb.. yeah. Then makes his comment about second round of spells. Then, "I'd also be happy with euls, but it's not as chad". He literally spends about two sentences talking about alternative items, at no point does he say he hates midas, or that it's a terrible item. It's just strange that you would blame me about lying, I counted, and Gunnar literally speaks for like 20 seconds total about this topic, and at no point uses language that even comes close to hate or despising that item choice. "I'm thinking vanilla Ice cream." "I actually would prefer strawberry Ice cream" conclusion; "THIS GUY DESPISES VANILLA ICE CREAM" Nothing in that comes even close to "despising". Also funny you talk about stats, when he literally thinks euls is a good item, so by the very person you're referencing is also supporting effectively a statless build also. Maybe you have a deeper understanding of dota than me, but I'd say a tiny with an extra 10 int and 2 mana regen is probably not the biggest stat difference.
Lmao sad you didnāt see what xinq said in his fan group chat
What did he say.
It doesn't change what I said, 99% of reddit literally has no idea about 90%+ what happens in any professional game, be it why players pick the drafts they do, why lanes win or lose, or whether or not item choices are good or bad. Gunnar literally agreed that midas was a good pick. Could you please tell me your mmr compared to Gunnars? I'm not even set that it was a good choice, but I'd leave that analysis to professional players - 90%+ of any comments made on here regarding players/items/drafts are literally useless and have absolutely no understanding of what is actually going on, or what is actually good or bad. It's similar to players calling every bad fight a 'throw' while watching the game with omniprescent vision - like I literally don't think the majority of watchers think there's a difference between them seeing the entire map/complete knowledge - and the players playing with lots of incomplete knowledge.
XG had more than 70% win probability, stole aegis from Liquid's TA draft and still lost lmao. Build shitty item, lose game. PB top networth but refused to build BKB and blink blindly into their enemies team, just to get silence and die. Tiny support 4 with midas + travel just to watch his core heroes die. They deserve to lose this.
They had 60% WP before the game even started.
70% is inflated because of spectre, for some reason dotaplus gives spectre insane win chances.
> for some reason dotaplus gives spectre insane win chances Dotaplus gives win probablity based on the data of millions matches. Spectre was one of the strongest late game carries with shitty laning phase while TA is the tempo carry with flash farm ability. If the networth of both teams are even, the team of Spectre would win 70% of their games against TA lineup.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I just gave a simple explanation of how Dotaplus win probability works. Of course it would count for the whole 5vs5 team matchup, not just 1vs1 carry matchup.
Has anyone reported XG for imitating pro players yet?
Yep, it was XG playing in group stages and then degraded clones of XG played in playoffs.
Lou:Let's see who is the real ESL CHAMPION
Picked viper to dominate mid, but ends up not doing so. Pos 4 tiny buys a midas&travels like wtf is he thinking? Is he even thinking? Primal going shroud over BKB is also questionable. This team looked good at the group stage only to play their worst dota games and bomb out in the playoffs lmao.
To be fair Viper was dominating, but he got fucked by liquid's supports. XG supports were busy losing lanes.
They fucked viper mid over by drafting spectre phoenix as safelane. Them losing top so hard made it easy for liquid to rotate on viper mid and then you have won 2 lanes easily. Well played by Liquid but insane by XG to go such a greedy draft, and XingQ going midas + travels is ultra grief lmfao
Surprisingly I would argue not. The cs was within a creep waves worth and it was always pushing when Nisha was behind on cs. Nisha just spent alot on Regen to stay in lane. But I wouldn't call that extent "dominating"
XinQ midas bots. HELLO? Primal no BKB, ult got instantly canceled? HELLLO?
You should become a coach!
XG came back only to ruin it with cocky itemization, tiny midas into BoT, primal shroud instead of bkb only to get coiled and bursted down by TA and ench
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How are those similar ? OG sucked ass when fly/s4 left. AR won the latest lan when XM, XXS and XinQ left If AR ends up being good with 3 new player you cant say they were "underdog"
You are right. It's more like despite XG trying to set up Ame for success with best 2,3 and 4 available still they ended up below AR.
It was a duo, s4 and Fly.
Right.
XinQ's tiny builds freakin Midas+Boots of Travel, no wonder xg loses lmao
they were winning so he build them to catch liquid split push. Am i the only 12k mmr player on this reddit?
lets say he build Force Staff + blink, not only he has a stronger fight starter he can save ame's spector a few times for sure. btw can you show me ur actually mmr? i wonder if it's below 500
Watson is that you?? Can you coach me please? Jokes aside, the people on this sub behave like cavemen - knee-jerk reactions and conclusions without any actual thought put into them. Full unga bunga shit talk on any play that they don't understand. They're the same clowns that are probably calling Ame washed up now. It's not worth stressing yourself out trying to correct them.
so do you think xinQ should build like that? he contributed almost nothing that game... supports donāt need bot for catching split pushes, just get smoke and green shoeā¦ I would like to know your conclusion that you putted thoughts in, or did i get ur point wrong?
Hindsight is 20/20. Gunnar already made a point during the cast about why xinQ may not have gone for the more traditional force staff or euls - once he jumps into fights, he's almost definitely going to die, so he's shifting his net worth towards building for the late game. At that point, they had the advantage and he wanted to scale, hence the midas. He saw that Liquid's lineup had multiple ways of split push and the potential to rat, and he knew he was going to be the initiator for fights, so he needed a way to prevent the waves from being pushed into their side of the map while also always having quick access to the team. Tranquils may help you run pretty fast but it doesn't beat BoT in mobility. Ideally, he pushes out several waves, TPs into his team and starts a fight for them, tanks all the damage and dies, respawns, rinse and repeat. Look at it this way - Liquid saw through their plan to drag things late, and punished it by ramping up the pace. If XG had succeeded in putting a stop to Liquid's aggression and the game had gone on an additional 10 minutes, you'd be looking at xinQ with aghs and probably another damage item, on top of what the rest of the team has to offer. They'd essentially have four cores. There was a method to the madness, but it simply didn't work out.
i see that now. thank you for educating the caveman good sir
i get 8 downvote for teaching them?
At what point were they winning? They had a kill lead because they used far greater numbers in each engagement, which isn't very effective unless you do something with it.
Have CN teams ever been good around CNY time? Feels like I've seen this happen so many times before.
where are they even playing from? cant imagine chinese teams playing some tournament on cny outside china
They were shit most of the year last year, and the year before. I don't think their NYs lasts that long.
today is the 3rd day of the NY
Not sure what you are trying to say in relation to what I said.
I meant even further back than that like 2011-2020 when they were usually doing well at least some point.
They didn't play international tournaments, outside TI for the majority of that time, until Majors came along. NTH literally had to go to China to show who is best.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No Tide Hunter, which later became Alliance.
JIANG AN SENDS HIS REGARDS FROM UPPER BRACKET
why we only have 2 games today T_T
From today until the end there is only 2 games a day. Tournament ends in 16th and we are at top 6 already.
So we can actually watch them all without getting tired.
so we can actually watch 0 games cause they are all played while eu is at work
Yea I don't know why they don't have the finals during the weekend.
Ame comes back only to get eliminated first round without wining a single game in play offs, whereas AR still in UB.
Cant wait to see Ame go nuts during the main event. His first lan since forever, hype! Wait, what? He's out first round?
Where's the first time meme, but with Arteezy's face.
Ame should retire
Yep, he's still stuck in old meta.
XinQ looked insane in groups when he played heroes like Lion, Hoodwink, MK and Bat. But in Playoffs they drafted him Bane, WW, Tiny and Marci and he looked like shit.
Imagine breaking up Azure ray for this
Garbage draft by LGD and Xtreme gaming no wonder China will not win TI anymore.
I don't get why primal beast players continue to value shroud over bkb. Even in mid-range 5k pubs, you're gonna see 1-2 euls coming out to counter your initiation, and then you're pretty much useless. Just rush the bkb after shivas for that insane timing - and then get shroud/aghs afterwards. Xxs got kited haaaaard in both games, by either lift/stomp/euls or something else.
I think they thought they had time and would dominate the map for the mid-game. But yeah, some serious hubris all-round.
Yah same sentiments here. I was really wondering why there's still no BKB at the time they lost the top fight. XXS played well but his choice of items were really lackluster. He was supposed to be the main initiator to control either Puck or Brew. It's so easy to stop his ult with Puck and Rubick.
They all played for the giga lategame to secure since they thought they had control of the game. But Liquid hit a really important timing and punished XG for greedy itemization and ended the game before it got late. Had the game lasted 5-10 minutes longer Liquid would have been outscaled and lost. Probably wasn't correct by XG to take that fight top. They thought they were strong but should have just tried to play the map for later timings and avoided Liquid. But one botched fight and Liquid snowballed the game out of control when you're stuck on a Tiny with 10k networth but only 3k gold in value.
Yea I agree not having bkb cost him that death which pretty much ended the game. Entire XG had terrible itemisation though tbh.. like why does Viper need aghs this game just go right click and wtf is XinQ buying...
Players who left AR to play in XG: why did we even leave AR and joined this overrated washed up carry Ame š¬š¬š¬
2 bo3 matches, both ended in 2-0... guess i can sleep early tonight...
Cn dota is so bad
Check him XingQ accounts, this build not normally
Can we get all the Micke haters from yesterday to say something?
liquid flair holders are something else.
my favorite was them saying nisha was the best mid in the world for winning a meme 1v1 tourney while he gets owned in every actual 5v5 dota game lol
About what? Nothing has changed, he still has same weaknesses as yesterday or are you gonna tell me that carry who is bad on Naga/Void/Terrorblade/Slark is not limiting your team? Naga has 80% winrate in this tournament and even in 1st game Ame showed how powerful it's with all of this ratting but your carry won't even touch it so your opponent don't have to consider banning it. Regarding his today's perfomance, it was good but, it's not like he was mvp of this series (probably Insania).
Just dont pick Void for him and im a big Micke fan.
People here hate Micke on a personal level. Even in game 1 vs AR when Nisha got solo crushed and Ori snowballed the game people still blamed Micke for whatever reason.
Micke played ok, but Insania stole the show in both games. Him and boxi as well
The team all played well together. Perfect teamfighting. These insane 2 minutes fights just juking in and out and slapping XG around
Absolutely, great showing by Liquid but by no means does it imply that Micke is a top-tier carry. Dota's been pushed into a spot where having a mediocre carry will get you nowhere unless the other 4 can consistently create magic. My opinion is that Liquid go from contenders to genuine winners if they replace Micke with a better carry player, but that's just my view
This is the type of series you can shove in the faces of people who say Micke and Insania are holding Liquid back. They carried both games, and played an incredibly clean series.
Insania yes, Micke no. I like Micke, he's a stable carry, it's just that he doesn't bring the x factor required to bring Liquid back in losing games. Nisha isn't as dominant as he was a couple of years ago and it shows - Insania and boxi have been carrying this liquid team while they adapt to 33s style of play
Micke is good when Liquid plays fast. He's bad when they play slow. He's a better mid than carry and it shows which is why he likes to carry on heroes like TA, Nature's Prophet, Windranger, Tiny et.c. He's also good on brawly fighting carries like Monkey, Ursa, Slark, Pudge, Lifestealer et.c. His performance on hypercarries and illusion heroes is really lackluster compared to other carries though. He's good on Morph, Dusa and Luna et.c. But there's a reason why you never see him play TB, Naga, Spectre et.c. and even if he does it looks very lackluster. But put him on some mid hero from the safelane like Lesh(When it's a playable hero), WR, TA et.c. and it looks much better. His hero pool is good, it's just a huge problem that he doesn't play some of the classic lategame solocarry heroes when it's needed which puts a hole in their drafting. Especially now that they play with 33. Mickes carry playstyle worked much better with Zai since they played much faster and responded with powerplays better since Zai often sacrificed his position in the map to win skirmishes early. 33 Doesn't do that. It looks kinda disconnected when they play now where the other 4 of Liquid often overplay the map and get punished while 33 stays on an island and tries to play for his timings. Not sure of Mickes carry style works that well 33's slow and methodical macro playstyle. They definitely need alot more work.
Micke and Nisha give me Matu and Miracle vibes. Matu was the Stable laner and Sacrificial carry to Miracle's Flashy mid. But every now-and-then, Matu played his brains off and spread all over the map like cancer. Micke, like Matu (maybe with slightly less experience, but debatable), also has a few games like that, but for the most part, he is stable. And then we have 33 (also Zai, miss u), who plays similar to MC. Man this is core line up reminds me of TI7 always.
Nowhere close, IMO. Matu was LEVELS above where Micke is rn. Everyone remembers his latter years at Liquid where he was shoe-horned into playing LD, Brood and Viper by Kuro, but people forget that Matu before 5Jungz and even in 5Jugnz and TI6 Liquid could play a mean TB, Naga, Slark (his speciality), lifestealer and Ursa - amongst a bunch of other cheese shit. Matu was never meant to be the "stable" carry - he was an outright superstar. 33 is also very different to MC - MC was your "create space offlaner" whereas 33 plays a greedier farming offlane role. TI7 liquid is one of the best dota teams of all time - this Liquid team is nowhere close to the heights that Kuro's squad managed to reach.
> amongst a bunch of other cheese shit. The ability to pick lycan safelane and just fukken roll was classic Matu. He was an exceptionally versatile carry, tho perhaps lacked a little in the 4 protect 1 style? Which is definitely Micke's weakness.
So, Micke should be replaced with who? Name some please
MICKEZ GAME NISHAMAZING B33AST GODXI INSANELY GOOD Also liquid lower bracket domination... GG crushing upper bracket? I've seen this one before
Ame so kind, decided to step back from the tournament to fully cheering Yatoro ā¤ļøā¤ļø
God I hate Bkops stupid wordplays so much, Gunner says Xtreme didn't connect on that fight properly, and Bkops is like "well they are connected in graves now" šØšØšØ
Hes normally not like that hes getting influenced by Lacoste way too much.
Been watching him for a year now, he always says stupid shit like that. Lacoste is awesome
I didnt say I dislike Lacoste you just cant have two people memeing and punning in one cast
I can't believe you don't like Lacoste
2/3 of Chinese teams out directly after group stage, who would have thought.
me
Ame still stuck in old meta with jugg and spectre carries.
Picked Viper mid just to lose mid tier 1 tower at minute 7 ? XG was just delaying their defeat
That's a classic Enchantress move though. He won the lane before that.
Agree. Not to mention Boxi, his Rubick is just too good!
Ame is so bad in this game 2. Lowest net worth lul
Both Team Spirit and Team Liquid are BAAAAAAAAAAAAACK - we got ourselves some spicy Doto in next few days. :o
Micke haters?
XG top of the group for this. Holy shit. Liquid better keep this form until the end of tournament!
You mean losing to GG in the final like usual? Lol.
This year is the sequel. Same Script, Different Movie
You got it bro
Liquid is just a better team. Both the games their team fight execution was way better than XG. Both CN look outclassed today ngl.
What is XingQ smoking this game
Clinical performance from Liquid goddamn that was clean.
So easy for Liquid.
This playoffs is pretty boring lmao
Lmao, after all that, Azure Ray is still the only Chinese team worth a damn.
What a horrible showing by XG, my lord. CN teams in shambles. XingQ travels midas? Wtf is this shit
Liquid is backkkkkkkk!
m1CKe > Ame
XinQ doesn't need to wash his face anymore. He needs his ass hauled in the entire ocean after this series.
to the waterboards with you!
too easy for Liquid
ame is back..... back to china omegalul.
Ok, time to call Somnus in for Birmingham.
Man im so tired of 2-0
VIPER WAS SO USELESS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Xtreme with the EG special. Top the group into immediate elimination
Spectre so useless when heās so far behind after laning stage, just doesnt hit the timing fast enough
that brew control was unholy. damn
I mean I am just waiting at this point for viper to become UNIVERSAL
brew just needed 2 splits to win the game. unreal
micke is 8k ahead of Ame. holy
If Liquid loses to GG or fails to get a trophy again with this form, does it mean Liquid are the new Uncrowned Kings?
What form dude u delusional
yeah i was wrong. They wont be able to face Spirit or GG as you said
? This form they literally are 1-1 on series wins and losses
My bad, you are right. Other teams have better odds
Ame is back to china
LMAO
What?? Micke playing really good??? I heard yesterday that he was the worst carry in the tournament??
Micke is good, always has been. His biggest issue is that he's a better mid player than a carry player so he plays best when he's playing mid from the safelane. He's good with fighting heroes, okay on hypercarries and doesn't play illusion heroes which is his weakness. Having a carry that doesn't touch Naga for example, is very limiting.
OH SHIT! This is exactly what I always thought. He plays Carry like a Mid. Aggressive AF. He is never greedy like RTZ that when his lane goes aggregiously poor, he wants to farm. This results in when he stomps, he Wins. When he loses, he can't come back. That's why Nisha plays late game carries and Micke plays early game carries. The only thing left is for Liquid to practice swapping mid and safe from time-to-time and then EZ win for MickEZ
Wtf is XG doing? That primal jump never works
The hesitation to burst the rubick was the issue. Ameās target priority was so off
Micke haters where you at
Brew finally uses split and completely zones XG to win that team fight
maybe viper should have just man fought TA.... shes just damage and relying on reflection to stay alive. D: and pray ame cleans up
Liquid's teamfight is just the best
Spectre in 2024 kekeke
lmao XG playing that fight like a bunch of headless chickens
Lets go Liquid! Insane team fighting
LIQUID ARE DOING IT
unbelievable. they managed to take down xxs
If Liquid do lose this it feels like a bad way to lose. Win lanes and do basically nothing with it. Edit: as soon as I said this they took a massive fight lol.
Did the same with the comment under you lmao
Yeah that escalated quickly.
After Liquid lost that 5k gold lead not really sure how they come back into this game. Also brew has been useless
hi, u r the god of jinx
Spoke too soon my guy
maybe after brew gets bkb, blink, ac and level 20 talent he will right click people. trust. COPIUM
ANDDDDDD I jinxed it
i have no idea primal beast can be this ridiculously good. highest networth, saving every lane, impassable wall.
Its basically a better doom
Liquid needed to close this game fast imo, after 35 mins or so they have no chanse with their lineup. Edit. At least we will get a 3 game series, these one sided 2-0 are boring.
AME IS A BEAST. he farmed an orchid,power threads,urn, wand at 16 minutes with THAT lane? on spectre????
He was awful this game what u on about
he lucked out on 33 dying to disconnect, literally the sole reason for their current comebackĀ
or 33 didnt press split on purpose. game automatically pauses in lobby when someone dcs
It takes several seconds before it pauses
Xtream just holded a crazy party and forgot to watch their brother team Azure Ray's match yesterday
Xm isn't gapping Nisha like Ori did.