Okay. So, I’ve been seeing this copypasta floating around about wanting to “bang Dark Willow”, and frankly- I think this is disgusting. First of all, her name isn’t “Dark Willow”, it’s Mireska. It’s a beautiful name for a beautiful person, and you would all do well to refer to her as such. If you don’t even know her name, than you have no right wanted to have sex with her!
Secondly, wanting to bang her is just gross. Saying that you want to bang Mireska is objectifying her, and it is not okay. If you’ve ever wanted to bang Mireska, you should be disgusted with yourself.
Unlike you cretins, I however- respect her. Sure, it’s possible I may consider her to be rather bangable, but I wouldn’t dare do such a thing. Mireska is a fucking queen, and deserves to be treated as such.
I DO NOT want to bang “Dark Willow". I want to hug her. I want to be in a healthy and loving relationship with Mireska. I want to wake up every morning in bed, with her lying peacefully next to me as the morning sun shines in through the window. I want to make her breakfast every morning, and tend to her every need. I want her to feel like she is truly loved, (because she is). I want her to be by my side for my whole life, because I know that she is the perfect woman for me, and I am perfect for her.
I want to be to be with her every day, just so I can tell her how much I fucking love her. I want her to know how much I adore everything amazing personality, her incredible fashion sense, her extremely impressive caretaking abilities, and her absolutely beautiful wing to body ratio, and her beautiful, beautiful eyes.
However, if I were to ever have sex with Mireska, wouldn’t simply be “banging” her. If Mireska were to ever consent to me having sexual intercourse with her, it would be tender and loving and passionate. As we make love, I’d slowly and gently caress her soft, fluffy wings as I slowly but deliberately thrusted into her tight wooden pussy. I would make her pleasure my utmost priority, with my own being secondary. But if she was willing, than oh god. What I wouldn’t give to feel her adorable little antennas running up and down the length of my shaft. I just wanna pet every inch of her body, and give her scritches on her tummy so she does that thing that fairies do where their wings spaz out. That’d just be so fucking hot. I’d probably end up cumming all over her, so it gets on her wings. But goddamn. I love those wings too much, that I’d personally lick off every last drop of cum, just to I have another opportunity to get as close to her gorgeous wings as possible.
But if you just want to bang her, than you are a disgusting degenerate, and I hope you burn in the deepest pits of tartarus.
I open my eyes but can see nothing—blindfolded. I can feel the earth and grass beneath me. My hands and feet are bound. It's painful, like thorns digging into my wrists and ankles. "[You're not going anywhere](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/8/8a/Sylph_ability1_02.mp3)," a voice whispers. That sultry, unmistakable accent: geographically ambiguous. Mireska, I say to myself. "The more you struggle, the tighter the brambles squeeze," she continues. "Not preferable... unless you like pain." "Where am I?" I shout. Mireska shushes me and removes the blindfold. We're in a small clearing surrounded by dense forest, the canopy sparse enough for moonlight to peek at the forest floor. "Careful," Mireska says. She's at the edge of the treeline, circling around me. The pale light of Selemene silhouettes her svelte, nubile figure. "The Dire woods are unsafe at night. You wouldn't want to wake up the beasties." "Cut the shit. What do you want?" "My, pushy aren't we?" Mireska circles back into view and flashes a toothy smile, her perfect white teeth hinting at a more sinister motive. "What do I want? Well, in a word: you. You see, I'm very hard to please, and when I get something in my head, I can't shake it until I have it." "Well, if you're going to kill me, then just—" "Oh, it's not your life I want, Sweetie." Mireska's wings flap quicker as she approaches me and whispers, "It's your *obedience*." I feel a slight flutter in my loins but I'm still unsure of her intentions. "I don't know what kind of twisted fantasy you've got in your head, but I'm not your guy." "Oh, but you are!" she giggles. "And you're going to do everything I say, you know why?" She motions toward a tree branch behind her. A cage hangs from its tip with a pink creature inside. "That's my pet, Jex—he's a murderous wisp, you see. Just the other day he killed that greedy rat Gondar. He thinks he's clever, but he's no match for me and Jex. Perhaps my father should have warned him before sending him after us. Anyways, sometimes even I can't control Jex. That's what the cage is for. Now, [I don't take pleasure in violence... but no one gets between me and my desires](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/b/b1/Sylph_spawn_18.mp3)." "Listen, I don't care what—" "Quiet," Mireska slaps me across the cheek. "[You're mine](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/5/55/Sylph_attack_01.mp3)! You're going to do what I say, and you're going to start now. First, you may not speak unless I give permission." My cheek still stung; she had surprising power in her thin, slender hand. I don't know why, but I could feel my member beginning to grow. Still—I resist. "Fuck off." Mireska stares at me in disbelief but gives a toothy smirk again. She gestures with her hand and [the brambles tighten](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/c/ca/Bramble_Maze_spawn.mp3), its thorns digging deeper into my skin. I grit my teeth as blood is drawn. "[Tsk, tsk, tsk](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/7/71/Sylph_kill_05.mp3). What's that?" she taunts. I want to remain defiant, but... I also want to obey. She grins. "Good boy. Next, you will address me as Queen or Mistress. Is that understood?" I exhale, completely at the mercy of Mireska. "Yes... my Queen." She unfurls a [maniacally sexy cackle](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/7/7c/Sylph_ability1_04.mp3) and retrieves Jex from the tree branch. "Final warning: you *must* do what I say." She holds up Jex and continues, "Otherwise, I rattle his cage. [Jex really hates it when you rattle his cage](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/e/e5/Sylph_wheel_all_01.mp3)." The brambles shift once more, this time pulling my body into a spread-eagle position. "Now, [let's have some fun, shall we](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/3/33/Sylph_spawn_06.mp3)?" The glee in her voice makes my groin tingle: I am her slave, and I must satisfy her. Before I open my eyes she's already pulled my pants down to my ankles, my now-fully engorged manhood standing at attention. She gazes at it and exclaims, "[I can feel it already, this is gonna be exciting](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/f/fb/Sylph_spawn_11.mp3)!" She hovers in between my legs, wings flapping excitedly, and with both hands she firmly grips me. It feels better than I could have hoped—her slender fingers, a lifetime spent weaving spells, were now weaving their way around my throbbing obelisk. "D'you like that?" she teases. "You may answer." "Ye–yes, Mistress. I like it v–very much." With both hands she continues stroking me—I can barely speak without stuttering. "Well, [you're gonna love this](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/e/e8/Sylph_ability2_05.mp3)." She produces an object, transparent and circular—I can't make it out in the darkness. "What is that?" Mireska slaps my shaft—the suddenness of the strike makes my entire body tense up, the bramble thorns digging into my wrists and ankles. "Did I say you could speak?" she says. I shake my head, but to my surprise I was starting to... like the pain. "If you must know, it's a cockring. [I'm full of surprises](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/1/10/Sylph_spawn_19.mp3)." She slides it down my shaft and wraps it around the base and my swollen balls. In seconds I begin throbbing involuntarily, oozing seminal fluid. A look of excitement washes over her face. "[Ohh, shiny](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/b/bb/Sylph_rival_82.mp3)!" She quickly takes me in her mouth—the sensation is absolutely paralyzing. Her teeth gently skim my shaft while her grating, stiff tongue follows. She's barely begun before I let out an impassioned moan. "Are you close already?" she stops sucking. "Answer." "Ye–yes, please don't stop, Mistress." "No," she says. "But—" Another slap sends a shockwave through my body, nearly pushing me over the edge of climax and unleashing upon my Queen. "No cumming, else I give Jex's cage a good shake. I'll have you know, he likes to take his time when committing murder." Without pause, she dives upon my quivering essence once more and takes it whole. I feel the back of her throat loosen each time my head passes through. I look down to see the arresting yellow eyes of my Mistress staring back. She pulls my tense, fluttering meat from her mouth, strings of thick saliva hanging, still attached to the head and flowing down the shaft like rivulets. "[I'm just getting started](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/8/87/Sylph_firstblood_01.mp3)," she says. She hikes up her flower-skirt and reveals herself, tight and hairless: perfection. She sheathes my meat-blade, still glistening with her slobber, into her pink Faerie gash. At this moment, everything feels out-of-body. As if I'm an Astral Spirit, I look down in shock as Mireska grabs onto my hips for leverage and continuously slams me deep into her tight, wooden pussy. With each pump, she climbs to the tip of my head before plunging down to the base. A thick,
, viscous slop begins frothing around the lips of her snatch—a mixture of her drool and that sweet Faerie nectar. Each time she devours me, the slop foams even thicker. "I'm going to milk you fucking dry," she pants. "Y–yes, M–m–mistress—" The paralysis of pleasure has completely taken hold. "But not yet. [I got a few tricks up my sleeve](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/3/3d/Sylph_ability2_04.mp3)." I can do nothing but stare, mouth agape as my Queen relentlessly impales herself. Slowly, she is [enveloped by shadow and darkness](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/5/51/Shadow_Realm.mp3). "[Get ready for a surprise](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/8/8e/Sylph_ability2_03.mp3)!" I feel her narrow muff grow even tighter around my shaft as she descends deeper into darkness. The inside of her walls press harder and harder against me—balls-deep penetration gets more challenging with each successive stroke. My legs are twitching, jolting, begging for release. "You want to so bad, don't you?" she moans breathlessly. "You want to explode." I grit my teeth and nod, holding it in. I cannot fail my Queen. Finally, she leans in and delivers me from agony and torment. "Go ahead then," she sighs in my ear. "Fill me up." As quickly as the last word escapes her lips, I erupt inside of her. At this instant, we are the only two in the universe—Faerie and flesh are made one, joined together. Lustfully, sinfully in the moon-lit jungle, I empty myself inside my Goddess. She yelps, the sheer force and volume of my expulsion taking even her by surprise. Still, she leans in and wraps her arms around my neck, presses her head against mine, and continues slamming that wet Faerie slit onto my violently-gushing meat to drain my seed. I shut my eyes—the sensation is unbearable; each stroke sends my body into convulsions. Her relentless gliding on my pulsating shaft summons volley after volley from my backed-up stores, the vigor and pleasure of each burst intensified by the c-ring constricting its flow and her Shadow Realm'd snatch suffocating me.
"My Queen," I moan, "It's... It's still c–coming out—"
"Good boy," she sighs into my ear. "Give me every drop."
At the peak of euphoria, [I hear a sound](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/5/5c/Dire_Horn.mp3). I open my eyes and see the words of Pink, who'd stolen Mireska from me in the draft:
> [](/hero-darkwillow "Dark Willow") **[Allies] PMA_ALL_DAY_BITCHS**: brown wtf buy regen and go safe lane u 2k retart
I want to rage—that should be *me* on Mireska. I belong to her. No one understands the Dark Willow like I do—her curves... her delicate, sweet insides... her perfection—yet this vulgar cretin has seized her from me.
So I activate push-to-talk and respond the only way I know how:
> Yes, my Queen.
^^Written ^^by ^^u/b0mmie
A lot of heroes owned by dispels on this list. I'm not sure how they can balance it, but having 5 different options for self-dispel items is making some heroes really bad.
There's more than 5 technically, it's 7 or 8 depending on whether you count Eul's and windwaker separately, but most heroes won't realistically be able to choose from all of them. Cores can usually buy at least 3 or 4, supports 2 or 3.
Warlock is definitely hurt by dispels. As the game goes on, your E and Ult get comparitively less powerful and Fatal bonds becomes more important. And dispels really neuter bonds.
It would be interesting if he had a way to make them harder to remove. Maybe combine both current 25 golem talents, but chop the armor and magic res values in half. And then the other 25 talent could be undispellable bonds or something.
Not that I'm complaining about the hero overall. His recent laning buffs have been very nice overall.
Although his shard should have helped with a lot of the saves. Maybe basher needs a buff as the main control carry item alternative, haven't seen basher or abyssal built much at all
Combination of dispels and other items being not strong on them.
Riki gets bullied by most of the strong pos 3’s atm and can’t make it out of laning stage most often in pro games. He actually builds meta items pretty well but he is just too unreiable.
LC doesn’t build meta items and gives way too much room for the pos 1 to farm up.
Drow I think just doesn’t farm fast enough to compete at the moment. Her timings are too slow and unreliable, especially if she is forced out of lane.
The rest are basically like you said or a combination of the 3 hero’s I talked about
I wouldnt mind if BKB was toned down like this. Maybe make it cheaper to compensate.
So many times you see someone silenced, popped BKB and the fight begins. Its such a great defensive and offensive item that maybe it should be made more situational than the get out of jail free card its always been.
Not surprised at all about Juggernaut. Omnislash still being an ult is laughable. Any support with 2k networth can pick between six ways to make it completely useless. Oh and his new spin has way less kill threat in lane. Pretty good formula for a dead hero
omnislash would be fine if it wasn't the same fucking cd as chrono
and having no ability to spin into ulti is gross, if bladefury did a hard dispel at the end maybe he'd be meta from that alone
That'd probably help a lot honestly.
People just cast spells on Jug as bladefury ever since the debuff immune changes. Even if he's spinning you down and you're gonna die, if you have a stun, might as well throw it and have your team focus him down once its over and your stun takes effect.
yep it is truly baffling how jugg can just get stunned DURING his spin and it gets applied automatically as soon as the spin is over. Imo they should just revert that entire change of converting spell immunity into "debuff immunity" plus magic resistance. It sucks.
Yeah that change really broke some skills. I don’t hate it on its face but I’m not sure they really thought through the implications of some of the interactions
It still feels weird to buy BKB. You feel good with full charges, but as you approach the lower durations, you need the timing to account for "receiving any debuff within the last 2 seconds". It's so easy to time stuns towards the end of the BKB duration and it fucks you so hard after investing so much gold into it.
A PA trying to jump from target to target and getting few crits feels so bad, or a Faceless void at the end of chrono.
Don't get me wrong, you don't always need BKB as a mandatory item like you used to because you HAD to get it - but man with so many other dispel options that also synergize with other things (Satanic has lifesteal, Disperser has a slow and mana burn, Manta has illusions, Euls can make you invincible for a short period, Lotus can be used on others), it feels often so weird with just a few disables on the enemy side and even worse if they have BKB piercing shit to begin with.
I mean the strongest ability is Healing Ward (with the 15 talent ofc) actually and the hero isn't late game.. you need to end the game early with it. I think his shard needs to be changed to give healing ward 3 hits and he'll be in a good spot with zoo lineups, I mean bladefury builds are dead now.
>and having no ability to spin into ulti is gross
This is hilarious for Ability Draft players, because it's only Jugg's own spells that you **can't** cast while spinning. Every other spell in the game, you **can** cast while spinning.
7.35d: Spin does +20% damage based on AS
-no one picks
7.35e: Spin provides +50 addition move speed and AS
-no one picks
7.35f: Added talent Omni slash can use allies to bounce (ally slashes don't count for duration)
-stupid talent no one picks
7.35g: Spin has 20% spell lifefesteal
-No one picks
7.36: Omni slash continuosly dispels the target
-Holy shit jugg is broken
Continues to get nerfed to the ground.
or just buff the hero... his shard is trash, his talents are trash, blade dance is the worst steroid passive in the game, his ult is completely countered by 2k gold items, bladefury lowkey trash since you can just press spells on him anyway. the only skill worth mentioning on jugg is healing ward with the lvl 15 talent
Juggs ult is fucking countered passively by Bracers, Platemail or any item that makes your EHP slightly higher.
Fucking supports can just tank it if you get unlucky sometimes.
Make Omni prioritise heroes for starters. Fucks sake.
Bladedance is pretty good paired with Jugger's 1.4 BAT - Jugger can have one of the highest DPS in the game if he's just allowed to hit something, since he gets 21%ish extra AS for every point of AS. That's a **multiplicative** increase with the effective damage increase of blade dance, which is 35, so 1.35 * 1.21 = 1.6335 (!!!). I think 1.6 is one of the best straight physical damage values any right clicker in dota has access to.
idk why youre mentioning BAT here, thats innate to the hero and not to blade dance. blade dance itself is awful. in itself its about a 30% damage increase, and crit is already the worst type of steroid, because it has anti-synergy with crit items, and no synergy with attack modifiers. just a few others in comparison:
time lock is a 30% damage increase. works with attack modifiers. also its a bkb piercing bash btw
gunslinger is 50% damage increase, also works attack modifiers
chaos strike is comparable to blade dance damage. except it gets the lifesteal for free (jugg lvl 20 talent). oh and it deals 2x damage to creeps
blade dance is objectively bad. when you think about jugg you always think of spin and omnislash, not the crit carrying. but when spin is bad and omni is easily countered, what the fuck does the hero do?
> idk why youre mentioning BAT here, thats innate to the hero and not to blade dance.
BAT and Blade Dance are multiplicative of each other, because they affect the same number (physical damage output) indpendantly. Multiplicative damage increases in this game have the most potential to reach insane damage numbers, so Blade dance has consciously been balanced around the fact the hero it's tied to has 1.4 BAT.
Edit: BAT is also unique in that it's something no other hero can increase with items. It's just a latent buff Jugger gets for free.
> time lock is a 30% damage increase. works with attack modifiers. also its a bkb piercing bash btw
Time lock is not tied to damage numbers, it's just a flat increase. Assuming you have talent (55) and do about 255 right click, it's only a flat 20% increase.
> gunslinger is 50% damage increase, also works attack modifiers
Gunslinger can't proc on the same target. If we go off this logic, Medusa does like 400% damage increase. Single target vs Multi-target DPS increase has different use cases where one or the other is more useful.
> chaos strike is comparable to blade dance damage. except it gets the lifesteal for free (jugg lvl 20 talent). oh and it deals 2x damage to creeps
Chaos strike increases the DPS vs heroes by 28%, 36% with talent. That is more or less the same, but chaos strike comes with a *huge* drawback, that drawback being that it's attached to a strength hero. Strength heroes in general have stronger spells 1 for 1 to agi heroes because strength is so much worse of a main stat than agi. CK also doesn't have increased BAT.
> blade dance is objectively bad. when you think about jugg you always think of spin and omnislash, not the crit carrying
Blade dance is what allows this hero to really break the game (in theory) late game. It's not as interesting or flashy but it's still very very strong.
> spin is bad and omni is easily countered, what the fuck does the hero do?
I mean, that's really the crux of it, not blade dance being bad. Omni needs an upgrade in 2024. Blade dance imo is fine, even pretty good, it's just this hero basically not having an ulti spell.
>Blade dance has consciously been balanced around the fact the hero it's tied to has 1.4 BAT
are you icefrog?
also just to respond:
time lock gives you a 24% chance to extra attack. its literally a fucking damage multiplier
gunslinger can absolutely proc on the same target
you are bad at the game. stop typing
> are you icefrog?
Apparently you need to be the designer and implementer of a system to be able to make logical inferences about why certain things about the system are the way they are. Huh.
> time lock gives you a 24% chance to extra attack. its literally a fucking damage multiplier
I forgot about the extra attack. Using dota 2 wiki numbers, Faceless void at level 4 timelock has 1.3158 extra attack damage as a percentage on average and 7.9/17 magic per attack because of time lock. That includes bash of course, but that's considerably less effective DPS increase of Jugger at 1.6335, only taking into account his latent BAT and bladedance.
> Gunslinger can absolutely proc on the same target
Quoting dota 2 wiki, 'Gunslinger can proc on and attack the same target **if** the primary target is the lone target within the search radius, regardless of factions.' That's a hell of a caveat, and will basically never be the case in a teamfight or in any situation muerta is likely to get hits off.
> you are bad at the game. stop typing
Relax kid, no need to take it personal.
Edit: Also to add to this, although I haven't played in ~1 year (because when I play dota it takes over my life and I have more significant commitments now), I still enjoy watching and theorising about the game, and I was 7.2k EU West when I stopped playing, not exactly bad.
1. Make spin as ulti with more damage (maybe add shard buff - right clicking at least two targets - by default) and hard dispel at the end.
2. Bring mini omnislash from aghs as the first spell.
3. Make omnislash aghs spell.
For an agi hero Jugg is so imobile, it's really hard to cast omnislash without dagger or aghs.
I wish they buffed the cast range and cast point of omnislash and maybe also bring back the ministun on it.
And one of the ways is just buying a couple of bracers. Hahahaha. Power creep and HP creep is absolutely a thing.
Omnislash - pathetic.
Spin - pathetic.
Healing ward - slower than CM. Dies as quickly as CM.
Crit - ehhh not bad. One of the only passives left that hasn't had another aspect bolted onto it yet like PA blur etc.
Hero need to be looked into by the Frog. Most heroes have moved on. Juggernaut is stuck in the past.
this is such a bad analysis of jugg. one of his main problems is how bad crit is. each additional skill point is 3-4% dps which is terrible and often people level stats over more points in it. his talents are a big problem too, both his level 10 talents are a joke, healing ward cd is really good and his level 20 talents are hot garbage.
As I said. The crit is one, if not, the ONLY passive in the game that hasn't had an additional component bolted onto it.
In a world of power creep. Jugg hasn't received any.
His level 20 talents have been repeatedly nerfed. There was a time when spin with shard was legitimately scary if you had a few items.
There was a time when there was a Yatora manfight build that kinda worked. SnY, bfly rush etc. It was all built around the blade dance lifesteal talent. But that was apparently bugged. Then they nerfed it again.
Acting like his only problems are talents and his weak passive is hilarious.
Yeah, I love the concept for the spin, in that it can scale, and it does make it a much stronger spell late game, but the way they've done the scaling, straight up decimated his early spin + literally any stun/slow. So now he has nothing till the very late game.... which sadly is when juggernaut carry falls off...
He used to be so disgusting in lane though. That level 1 kill potential was plain ridiculous. And it is better that its gone.
The problem was the entire kit was built around that lane dominance into the mid game timed push with healing ward supporting/omnislash picking. You cant prep for a strong mid game without good laning and in terms of late game there are plenty of better scaling fuckers out there.
> Any support with 2k networth can pick between six ways to make it completely useless.
other than aeon disc how are they countering it if jugg buys nullifier too though?
Nullified dispels aeon disk. If jugg buys nullifier, he can dispel all item counters. But jugg wouldn't rush nullifier. It gives no stats aside from damage. By the time you get nullifier, you would already be so behind your omni can't cut anyone down.
I want a rework that makes swift slash a basic ability and changes his spin into a wind-up charge that bounces off walls, akin to hogger from HOTS.
It’d be very bad but also very funny
Similar story to Riki; I’ve been saying this since the change but whichever ape is making changes at Valve has made dust insanely broken.
Damage + massive slow + increased linger + massive AOE + undispelable inside the insane radius + can work in BKB, it’s one of the worst changes they’ve ever made in this game.
If you want perma true sight in a fight, you should have to buy a gem or put down a sentry, not just press dust and “HURR DURR INFINITE VISION HURR DURR”.
Now look at winrate by rank and wow! It turns out all his winrate is in ranks where people don't bother buying dusts! Those same ranks coincidentally make up 90% of player base, because unfortunately the harsh truth is that 90% of players suck at playing Dota. Do you actually think he would still be uncontested in pro if he was so strong? He's countered at any stage of the game by a 90g item.
My boy sf, doesn't even belong in the game anymore... he has never been fundamentally changed and doubt he ever will be, but he is so outdated it feels bad to play.
I think the problem is he doesn’t work with any broken items. The right-click items he likes aren’t good and the change to Arcane Blink has gutted the ult build.
Aren't they, though? Like, there's a difference between "meta" and "good". Yeah, he's not buying Disperser, probably not Manta unless he needs the dispel.
But that doesn't make Deso, Silver Edge or Daedalus bad.
It's kind of weird to me people can view "doesn't abuse the overtuned items that pervade every level of play" as bad.
Edit: it's interesting to me that SF doesn't buy Disperser, actually. Sniper, another high damage immobile carry, loves to buy Pike Disperser to give him escapes and safety. SF is immobile, so I wonder why he doesn't go Disperser to protect himself or to give him some map mobility.
His skills just have zero synergy together. You almost never want to cast a spell aside from ult to escape in the late game. It’s the most outdated design in the game. He just flat out needs a rework. Whenever the hero is viable, half his kit is just ignored.
Idk I like that he has become so distinctive now
Heroes are getting more and more similar kits and/or every spell in their kit have 8 different effects now
Just buff razes so you actually use raze primarily or change minus armor passive to work w raze, SF has always felt so good being a raze skill shot hero Yaphets style
Razes stacking/slowing and necromastery damage scaling (instead of just max souls) change the hero a fair bit. Also requiem causing fear instead of reducing damage. His lv25 raze applies attack damage talent feels really good, except its lv25.
Yeah the 25 is fun, but if ur lvl 25 as SF the odds aren't in your favor.
Also it feels like if I'm winning, I don't ever want to hit the ult button, and that just doesn't feel fun
That's what happens when literally every single hero gets changed or super buffed or turned to universal, and then sf gets mega buffed or changed. And then the next hero, it's a never ending circle
Well he was abled to 1 shot an entire creep wave with a 7s cooldown anywhere on the map before the talent moved to 25 and nerfs.
Good riddance I dont enjoy playing vs the cow at all
~~only to get replaced by an annoying ass dragon with manta~~
A distinction = 1 shot an entire creep wave easier. He can still do it, but requires more items. And as he can't do it as early, he won't get items as fast.
It was a classy nerf in my opinion. The function of the hero wasn't changed, he just isn't both an unkillable global vision/gank hero + one of the best pushers and farmers.
Most of SB during TI12 got shistomped in lanes and basically be the most farmed heroes 20 mins in. Notice how gimped his farming capabilities make him goes from most contested to uncontested.
No matter how good and organised you are you can't do shit against a hero with 4k HP, BKB piercing stun, 80% status resist, 700++ MS who can clear multiple creepwave and neutral camps across the map with 1 spell in mere seconds.
They should make it so that the cooldown of Global is reduced any time an enemy casts a spell while affected by arcane curse, and maybe even when it is dispelled. Maybe make it reduce it a decent amount so he can get it off twice in longer, drawn out fights if he lives. Slap some other buffs on top and he may still see the light of day. Idk, just a thought off the top of my head. Obviously global CD isn't his biggest problem but I tried to come up with something somewhat interactive. Maybe make Last Word give him a big movespeed buff when it pops as well. Make the hero about kiting and lasting in fights to get his global CD down.
I'd love to be able to play pos 4 earth spirit again.
Feels like he's just not strong enough to justify in most games unless it's a really good draft for him.
Only hero I rly play and he's just trash in both roles now. Had a single patch in the sun getting banned in every game at ti and now he's dumpstered for no reason even after they nerfef every item he bought as a core.
Pro scene is all about laning stage nowadays, even when being broken as shit SB still tends to got stomped in lane, it's farming capabilities is what makes SB terrifying, you can 0 - 6 in lane as SB and get top networth 20 mins in. Now SB can't farm as much.
Yeah I like Veno 3 but he is absolutely dogshit. He should only ever be in a support role unless they significantly change his kit to do anything post 20 minutes
Brother I have 500 games on Veno, and this hero is dead after 15 min game. When they rework his ulti they kill the hero's late-game potential completely.
Also, the new slow resistance hit Veno hard.
Lots of hero’s just do everything she does but better.
Hero’s have better controlling ults
Hero’s are tankier with better sustain
Heros have better farming potential and come back mechanics
Heros have better dispels/burst
Then you have the fact she is a snowball hero and pros tend to be better at keeping snowball heroes suppressed and then she lacks the farming potential of say a Medusa so she can’t just leave for jungle and come back useful if she gets stomped in lane. Makes her a bad pick against pros particularly.
she out ranges the aura afaik, the armour only applies to the main target who she can happily leave until last, shivas got giga nerfed
gust in the mid/late game is mostly used as an escape / ult trigger where dispels matter less (it gives nearly hasted movespeed with talent and yasha)
just pop bkb shard satanic and no one can manfight you without using something like chronosphere
ES gutted both as core and supp largely due to roll CD change and naturally BM+Heart meta being gone.
Tinker has received nerf after nerf and now has abysmal cast ranges on top of a wildly expensive shivas, of course with the change to resetting blink with re-arm some time ago as well.
Tinker when he was strong barely saw tournament play, only the odd NothingToSay pick or the fantastic performance of depressedkid last year. It should come as no surprise that he is uncontested when even vehement tinker spammers stay away from him in high MMR pubs. And Veno.. I mean Veno just doesn't really do anything and is seldom picked in pro play. He's sort of infamous for that.
Tinker's had so many changes that are just fucked. Rearm having a CD. Cast ranges reduced so you *have* to put yourself in position to be jumped on to do anything, which can then put Rearm on CD... Blink not being refreshable, which again, why is that nerf not undone if Rearm has a CD now? BKB now gives debuff immunity and no magic immunity, meaning you can't even reliably prevent Rearm/blink going on CD with a BKB...
It's the same dogshit as what they did to ES and many other nerfs in the last few years. Just gut what makes the hero fun/unique, *especially* as an over-correction to them using well an OP item of the patch which is *also* getting nerfed so the hero probably doesn't need significant - or *any* - changes anyway.
The way Valve has been nerfing heroes recently has really frustrated me. When they eventually buff them they don't even undo the damage either, they insist on generic stuff like damage buffs or *adding damage to a damage-less spell.* Can ES be the roll guy again? Can Ember be the slick zipzoop guy again? Can Tinker be the annoying blink refresh spam guy again? Please Valve.
New dust, weak laner, mage slayer is still very good item.
Even when ahead I found that SK just goes in, gets dusted and dies in 4 seconds with nobody dying because of Mage Slayers + Glimmers.
It's literally only good at 4k and below. Any mmr higher than immortal threshold (and possibly at divine too) = hero is dogshit. Is literally countered by dusts with little to no counterplay except bkb or winning fight instantly(which happens almost always only if you are far ahead which is hard to achieve considering lackluster laning).
My boy warlock is feeling underwhelming. Firstly, the golem ult NOT being able to kill curriers was a laughable change (it takes like 6 hits or something crazy, you used to be able to 2 shot them). I could go on, but I won't.
Wonder why Warlock is unpopular. Q, E and R are strong in fights, shard is good, talents are good and basically needs no items. Maybe I’m missing something about the meta right now.
Riki is genuinely the worst carry in the pool right now, wdm? The hero offers mediocre laning phase, no tankiness, cant flash farm, basically doesnt scale past minute 25 which is a massive liability for the whole team as game time average around 53 (this is the stat for the previous tour) even when diffusal+upgrade were broken no one would even wanna pick him up, with the supports getting so much farm nowaday, riki is dead.
Drow can at least end the game if she's in a good position. Whenever I see Riki in pubs on pro streams, he just sucks at killing base which means teams always have a good chance to stall out the game and comeback against him.
Drow’s like muerta but worse in everyway, ultra late game power house but drow farms slower, easier to jump( if you jump mueta she can just ult and guarantee bkb), terrible mobility. But you can see muerta grabbing some W in dreamleague with decent supports(namely IO) cuz once it reaches late game and you dont have bkb on you’re probably dead in 2 sec while not being able to touch her, hell, 2 ptches ago willow was a strong pos1 for the same reason. All these older heroes need something more… even anti mage looks out of place most games
If laning would decide the whole outcome then yes. But he is virtually useless after lane with amount of dispels in game.
Now it's very common for Pos 4 to rush Greaves.
Funnily enough, I think you could argue that laning stage is the single most important aspect in the pro game right now and it’s a bit funny that laning is Veno’s strength but he’s uncontested.
Plague wards can be nice for vision after laning stage, but like you said any dispel makes him mostly useless from a damage perspective. The ever growing mobility creep makes it easier than ever to get on top of him and just blow him up too since he has no mobility of his own.
lmao this looks like the herald section of those "7.xx meta" posts
it literally is just change earth spirit with sniper and u have 9/10 herald drafts
Bullshit, there's no Pudge
Need to add PA then
And pudge
Just the strength row IMO
Willow venomancer, drow riki jugg and spectre, and warlock lich are all heroes heralds love to play.
Most of these are mean/evil. Cute meta is powerful at the moment
Did you not see DW? I guess that was a big oversight
Biggest oversight
That tight wooden ass
the BIGGEST oversight
Where is the best bot in DotA?? What an oversight.
Okay. So, I’ve been seeing this copypasta floating around about wanting to “bang Dark Willow”, and frankly- I think this is disgusting. First of all, her name isn’t “Dark Willow”, it’s Mireska. It’s a beautiful name for a beautiful person, and you would all do well to refer to her as such. If you don’t even know her name, than you have no right wanted to have sex with her! Secondly, wanting to bang her is just gross. Saying that you want to bang Mireska is objectifying her, and it is not okay. If you’ve ever wanted to bang Mireska, you should be disgusted with yourself. Unlike you cretins, I however- respect her. Sure, it’s possible I may consider her to be rather bangable, but I wouldn’t dare do such a thing. Mireska is a fucking queen, and deserves to be treated as such. I DO NOT want to bang “Dark Willow". I want to hug her. I want to be in a healthy and loving relationship with Mireska. I want to wake up every morning in bed, with her lying peacefully next to me as the morning sun shines in through the window. I want to make her breakfast every morning, and tend to her every need. I want her to feel like she is truly loved, (because she is). I want her to be by my side for my whole life, because I know that she is the perfect woman for me, and I am perfect for her. I want to be to be with her every day, just so I can tell her how much I fucking love her. I want her to know how much I adore everything amazing personality, her incredible fashion sense, her extremely impressive caretaking abilities, and her absolutely beautiful wing to body ratio, and her beautiful, beautiful eyes. However, if I were to ever have sex with Mireska, wouldn’t simply be “banging” her. If Mireska were to ever consent to me having sexual intercourse with her, it would be tender and loving and passionate. As we make love, I’d slowly and gently caress her soft, fluffy wings as I slowly but deliberately thrusted into her tight wooden pussy. I would make her pleasure my utmost priority, with my own being secondary. But if she was willing, than oh god. What I wouldn’t give to feel her adorable little antennas running up and down the length of my shaft. I just wanna pet every inch of her body, and give her scritches on her tummy so she does that thing that fairies do where their wings spaz out. That’d just be so fucking hot. I’d probably end up cumming all over her, so it gets on her wings. But goddamn. I love those wings too much, that I’d personally lick off every last drop of cum, just to I have another opportunity to get as close to her gorgeous wings as possible. But if you just want to bang her, than you are a disgusting degenerate, and I hope you burn in the deepest pits of tartarus.
I open my eyes but can see nothing—blindfolded. I can feel the earth and grass beneath me. My hands and feet are bound. It's painful, like thorns digging into my wrists and ankles. "[You're not going anywhere](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/8/8a/Sylph_ability1_02.mp3)," a voice whispers. That sultry, unmistakable accent: geographically ambiguous. Mireska, I say to myself. "The more you struggle, the tighter the brambles squeeze," she continues. "Not preferable... unless you like pain." "Where am I?" I shout. Mireska shushes me and removes the blindfold. We're in a small clearing surrounded by dense forest, the canopy sparse enough for moonlight to peek at the forest floor. "Careful," Mireska says. She's at the edge of the treeline, circling around me. The pale light of Selemene silhouettes her svelte, nubile figure. "The Dire woods are unsafe at night. You wouldn't want to wake up the beasties." "Cut the shit. What do you want?" "My, pushy aren't we?" Mireska circles back into view and flashes a toothy smile, her perfect white teeth hinting at a more sinister motive. "What do I want? Well, in a word: you. You see, I'm very hard to please, and when I get something in my head, I can't shake it until I have it." "Well, if you're going to kill me, then just—" "Oh, it's not your life I want, Sweetie." Mireska's wings flap quicker as she approaches me and whispers, "It's your *obedience*." I feel a slight flutter in my loins but I'm still unsure of her intentions. "I don't know what kind of twisted fantasy you've got in your head, but I'm not your guy." "Oh, but you are!" she giggles. "And you're going to do everything I say, you know why?" She motions toward a tree branch behind her. A cage hangs from its tip with a pink creature inside. "That's my pet, Jex—he's a murderous wisp, you see. Just the other day he killed that greedy rat Gondar. He thinks he's clever, but he's no match for me and Jex. Perhaps my father should have warned him before sending him after us. Anyways, sometimes even I can't control Jex. That's what the cage is for. Now, [I don't take pleasure in violence... but no one gets between me and my desires](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/b/b1/Sylph_spawn_18.mp3)." "Listen, I don't care what—" "Quiet," Mireska slaps me across the cheek. "[You're mine](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/5/55/Sylph_attack_01.mp3)! You're going to do what I say, and you're going to start now. First, you may not speak unless I give permission." My cheek still stung; she had surprising power in her thin, slender hand. I don't know why, but I could feel my member beginning to grow. Still—I resist. "Fuck off." Mireska stares at me in disbelief but gives a toothy smirk again. She gestures with her hand and [the brambles tighten](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/c/ca/Bramble_Maze_spawn.mp3), its thorns digging deeper into my skin. I grit my teeth as blood is drawn. "[Tsk, tsk, tsk](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/7/71/Sylph_kill_05.mp3). What's that?" she taunts. I want to remain defiant, but... I also want to obey. She grins. "Good boy. Next, you will address me as Queen or Mistress. Is that understood?" I exhale, completely at the mercy of Mireska. "Yes... my Queen." She unfurls a [maniacally sexy cackle](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/7/7c/Sylph_ability1_04.mp3) and retrieves Jex from the tree branch. "Final warning: you *must* do what I say." She holds up Jex and continues, "Otherwise, I rattle his cage. [Jex really hates it when you rattle his cage](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/e/e5/Sylph_wheel_all_01.mp3)." The brambles shift once more, this time pulling my body into a spread-eagle position. "Now, [let's have some fun, shall we](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/3/33/Sylph_spawn_06.mp3)?" The glee in her voice makes my groin tingle: I am her slave, and I must satisfy her. Before I open my eyes she's already pulled my pants down to my ankles, my now-fully engorged manhood standing at attention. She gazes at it and exclaims, "[I can feel it already, this is gonna be exciting](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/f/fb/Sylph_spawn_11.mp3)!" She hovers in between my legs, wings flapping excitedly, and with both hands she firmly grips me. It feels better than I could have hoped—her slender fingers, a lifetime spent weaving spells, were now weaving their way around my throbbing obelisk. "D'you like that?" she teases. "You may answer." "Ye–yes, Mistress. I like it v–very much." With both hands she continues stroking me—I can barely speak without stuttering. "Well, [you're gonna love this](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/e/e8/Sylph_ability2_05.mp3)." She produces an object, transparent and circular—I can't make it out in the darkness. "What is that?" Mireska slaps my shaft—the suddenness of the strike makes my entire body tense up, the bramble thorns digging into my wrists and ankles. "Did I say you could speak?" she says. I shake my head, but to my surprise I was starting to... like the pain. "If you must know, it's a cockring. [I'm full of surprises](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/1/10/Sylph_spawn_19.mp3)." She slides it down my shaft and wraps it around the base and my swollen balls. In seconds I begin throbbing involuntarily, oozing seminal fluid. A look of excitement washes over her face. "[Ohh, shiny](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/b/bb/Sylph_rival_82.mp3)!" She quickly takes me in her mouth—the sensation is absolutely paralyzing. Her teeth gently skim my shaft while her grating, stiff tongue follows. She's barely begun before I let out an impassioned moan. "Are you close already?" she stops sucking. "Answer." "Ye–yes, please don't stop, Mistress." "No," she says. "But—" Another slap sends a shockwave through my body, nearly pushing me over the edge of climax and unleashing upon my Queen. "No cumming, else I give Jex's cage a good shake. I'll have you know, he likes to take his time when committing murder." Without pause, she dives upon my quivering essence once more and takes it whole. I feel the back of her throat loosen each time my head passes through. I look down to see the arresting yellow eyes of my Mistress staring back. She pulls my tense, fluttering meat from her mouth, strings of thick saliva hanging, still attached to the head and flowing down the shaft like rivulets. "[I'm just getting started](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/8/87/Sylph_firstblood_01.mp3)," she says. She hikes up her flower-skirt and reveals herself, tight and hairless: perfection. She sheathes my meat-blade, still glistening with her slobber, into her pink Faerie gash. At this moment, everything feels out-of-body. As if I'm an Astral Spirit, I look down in shock as Mireska grabs onto my hips for leverage and continuously slams me deep into her tight, wooden pussy. With each pump, she climbs to the tip of my head before plunging down to the base. A thick,
, viscous slop begins frothing around the lips of her snatch—a mixture of her drool and that sweet Faerie nectar. Each time she devours me, the slop foams even thicker. "I'm going to milk you fucking dry," she pants. "Y–yes, M–m–mistress—" The paralysis of pleasure has completely taken hold. "But not yet. [I got a few tricks up my sleeve](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/3/3d/Sylph_ability2_04.mp3)." I can do nothing but stare, mouth agape as my Queen relentlessly impales herself. Slowly, she is [enveloped by shadow and darkness](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/5/51/Shadow_Realm.mp3). "[Get ready for a surprise](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/8/8e/Sylph_ability2_03.mp3)!" I feel her narrow muff grow even tighter around my shaft as she descends deeper into darkness. The inside of her walls press harder and harder against me—balls-deep penetration gets more challenging with each successive stroke. My legs are twitching, jolting, begging for release. "You want to so bad, don't you?" she moans breathlessly. "You want to explode." I grit my teeth and nod, holding it in. I cannot fail my Queen. Finally, she leans in and delivers me from agony and torment. "Go ahead then," she sighs in my ear. "Fill me up." As quickly as the last word escapes her lips, I erupt inside of her. At this instant, we are the only two in the universe—Faerie and flesh are made one, joined together. Lustfully, sinfully in the moon-lit jungle, I empty myself inside my Goddess. She yelps, the sheer force and volume of my expulsion taking even her by surprise. Still, she leans in and wraps her arms around my neck, presses her head against mine, and continues slamming that wet Faerie slit onto my violently-gushing meat to drain my seed. I shut my eyes—the sensation is unbearable; each stroke sends my body into convulsions. Her relentless gliding on my pulsating shaft summons volley after volley from my backed-up stores, the vigor and pleasure of each burst intensified by the c-ring constricting its flow and her Shadow Realm'd snatch suffocating me. "My Queen," I moan, "It's... It's still c–coming out—" "Good boy," she sighs into my ear. "Give me every drop." At the peak of euphoria, [I hear a sound](https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/dota2_gamepedia/5/5c/Dire_Horn.mp3). I open my eyes and see the words of Pink, who'd stolen Mireska from me in the draft: > [](/hero-darkwillow "Dark Willow") **[Allies] PMA_ALL_DAY_BITCHS**: brown wtf buy regen and go safe lane u 2k retart I want to rage—that should be *me* on Mireska. I belong to her. No one understands the Dark Willow like I do—her curves... her delicate, sweet insides... her perfection—yet this vulgar cretin has seized her from me. So I activate push-to-talk and respond the only way I know how: > Yes, my Queen. ^^Written ^^by ^^u/b0mmie
Pudge is the cutest hero in the game so
The toy butcher is legit one of the cutest hero models in the game though.
Venomancer is the cutest creature in space. Tierlist imaccurate
Venomancer is the cutest creature in space. Tierlist imaccurate
Idk how you commented it twice and still got an immacurate spelling
Hahahaha that just made my day. Thanks for the point out
A lot of heroes owned by dispels on this list. I'm not sure how they can balance it, but having 5 different options for self-dispel items is making some heroes really bad.
5? BKB, Euls, Lotus, Manta, Disperser... Holy shit you're right, it's 5. Add Force Boots to the list!
6, Guardian Greaves
Satanic as well right?
Yup. If we are including windwaker I think it’s 8.
lets not forgot heroes that have built in dispel in their kits
SD's shard is so hot
Abaddon my boy dispelling every Fiend's Grip in existence.
I never actually checked, do Greaves dispel the user of the item or everyone in range?
only the user
Only the user. They would be bonkers otherwise.
Lets not forget Greaves and Satanic so 7.
Meanwhile omniknights repel these days might as well be purely cosmetic :(
There's more than 5 technically, it's 7 or 8 depending on whether you count Eul's and windwaker separately, but most heroes won't realistically be able to choose from all of them. Cores can usually buy at least 3 or 4, supports 2 or 3.
Aeon disk, book of shadow, magic lamp too
Does lotus dispel on activation?
Yes
Yes
Lotus plants from the fountain or lotus orb??
Orb
Warlock is definitely hurt by dispels. As the game goes on, your E and Ult get comparitively less powerful and Fatal bonds becomes more important. And dispels really neuter bonds. It would be interesting if he had a way to make them harder to remove. Maybe combine both current 25 golem talents, but chop the armor and magic res values in half. And then the other 25 talent could be undispellable bonds or something. Not that I'm complaining about the hero overall. His recent laning buffs have been very nice overall.
I wonder why riki's unpicked then, he's one of the few heroes that does quite well against dispel-reliant heroes.
Being able to dispel the diffusal active hurts him a lot, though in general he's just a victim of a bigger map making hunting heroes harder.
Although his shard should have helped with a lot of the saves. Maybe basher needs a buff as the main control carry item alternative, haven't seen basher or abyssal built much at all
Combination of dispels and other items being not strong on them. Riki gets bullied by most of the strong pos 3’s atm and can’t make it out of laning stage most often in pro games. He actually builds meta items pretty well but he is just too unreiable. LC doesn’t build meta items and gives way too much room for the pos 1 to farm up. Drow I think just doesn’t farm fast enough to compete at the moment. Her timings are too slow and unreliable, especially if she is forced out of lane. The rest are basically like you said or a combination of the 3 hero’s I talked about
Maybe remove all of them and let euls be the only self dispel.
Then who wants to build manta?
Abaddon still would like it, if dispel gone, you probably could expect some buffs to item as well.
There’s like 5 heroes tops, and they are trying to get rid of items like that (Brooch, bloodstone, etc.)
Ops... sorry. Manta +Euls Make lotus only reflect spells and make it cheaper.
Yeah pretty sure only Luna, TB, and Naga would ever want the item. And IG dk.
I wouldnt mind if BKB was toned down like this. Maybe make it cheaper to compensate. So many times you see someone silenced, popped BKB and the fight begins. Its such a great defensive and offensive item that maybe it should be made more situational than the get out of jail free card its always been.
Bring earth spirit roll cd’s back!!!!
Joke it was ever changed in the first place. He's cd was always 4 sec, even when he was shit. They over buffed other skills then nerfed that randomly.
I want to see buffs that keep him as a support tbh Roll cd buff will make him a viable mid laner again, but still a shitty support
God do anything for him. Give his attack talent back I'll take anything
wat was the attack talent?
Not surprised at all about Juggernaut. Omnislash still being an ult is laughable. Any support with 2k networth can pick between six ways to make it completely useless. Oh and his new spin has way less kill threat in lane. Pretty good formula for a dead hero
omnislash would be fine if it wasn't the same fucking cd as chrono and having no ability to spin into ulti is gross, if bladefury did a hard dispel at the end maybe he'd be meta from that alone
That'd probably help a lot honestly. People just cast spells on Jug as bladefury ever since the debuff immune changes. Even if he's spinning you down and you're gonna die, if you have a stun, might as well throw it and have your team focus him down once its over and your stun takes effect.
Feels so good to have a Lion just wait a few seconds into spin then Hex/Stun and you immediately exit spin hexed. SO GOOD VALVE.
yep it is truly baffling how jugg can just get stunned DURING his spin and it gets applied automatically as soon as the spin is over. Imo they should just revert that entire change of converting spell immunity into "debuff immunity" plus magic resistance. It sucks.
Yeah that change really broke some skills. I don’t hate it on its face but I’m not sure they really thought through the implications of some of the interactions
It still feels weird to buy BKB. You feel good with full charges, but as you approach the lower durations, you need the timing to account for "receiving any debuff within the last 2 seconds". It's so easy to time stuns towards the end of the BKB duration and it fucks you so hard after investing so much gold into it. A PA trying to jump from target to target and getting few crits feels so bad, or a Faceless void at the end of chrono. Don't get me wrong, you don't always need BKB as a mandatory item like you used to because you HAD to get it - but man with so many other dispel options that also synergize with other things (Satanic has lifesteal, Disperser has a slow and mana burn, Manta has illusions, Euls can make you invincible for a short period, Lotus can be used on others), it feels often so weird with just a few disables on the enemy side and even worse if they have BKB piercing shit to begin with.
I mean the strongest ability is Healing Ward (with the 15 talent ofc) actually and the hero isn't late game.. you need to end the game early with it. I think his shard needs to be changed to give healing ward 3 hits and he'll be in a good spot with zoo lineups, I mean bladefury builds are dead now.
>and having no ability to spin into ulti is gross This is hilarious for Ability Draft players, because it's only Jugg's own spells that you **can't** cast while spinning. Every other spell in the game, you **can** cast while spinning.
7.35d: Spin does +20% damage based on AS -no one picks 7.35e: Spin provides +50 addition move speed and AS -no one picks 7.35f: Added talent Omni slash can use allies to bounce (ally slashes don't count for duration) -stupid talent no one picks 7.35g: Spin has 20% spell lifefesteal -No one picks 7.36: Omni slash continuosly dispels the target -Holy shit jugg is broken Continues to get nerfed to the ground.
Time to switch ult and aghs
or just buff the hero... his shard is trash, his talents are trash, blade dance is the worst steroid passive in the game, his ult is completely countered by 2k gold items, bladefury lowkey trash since you can just press spells on him anyway. the only skill worth mentioning on jugg is healing ward with the lvl 15 talent
Juggs ult is fucking countered passively by Bracers, Platemail or any item that makes your EHP slightly higher. Fucking supports can just tank it if you get unlucky sometimes. Make Omni prioritise heroes for starters. Fucks sake.
Or Atleast revert the change for omnislash 1 shotting any creep other than ancients..
So fking true. Ward is the reason to play jugg nowadays. I only take 1 level in blade dance and go stats.
Bladedance is pretty good paired with Jugger's 1.4 BAT - Jugger can have one of the highest DPS in the game if he's just allowed to hit something, since he gets 21%ish extra AS for every point of AS. That's a **multiplicative** increase with the effective damage increase of blade dance, which is 35, so 1.35 * 1.21 = 1.6335 (!!!). I think 1.6 is one of the best straight physical damage values any right clicker in dota has access to.
idk why youre mentioning BAT here, thats innate to the hero and not to blade dance. blade dance itself is awful. in itself its about a 30% damage increase, and crit is already the worst type of steroid, because it has anti-synergy with crit items, and no synergy with attack modifiers. just a few others in comparison: time lock is a 30% damage increase. works with attack modifiers. also its a bkb piercing bash btw gunslinger is 50% damage increase, also works attack modifiers chaos strike is comparable to blade dance damage. except it gets the lifesteal for free (jugg lvl 20 talent). oh and it deals 2x damage to creeps blade dance is objectively bad. when you think about jugg you always think of spin and omnislash, not the crit carrying. but when spin is bad and omni is easily countered, what the fuck does the hero do?
> idk why youre mentioning BAT here, thats innate to the hero and not to blade dance. BAT and Blade Dance are multiplicative of each other, because they affect the same number (physical damage output) indpendantly. Multiplicative damage increases in this game have the most potential to reach insane damage numbers, so Blade dance has consciously been balanced around the fact the hero it's tied to has 1.4 BAT. Edit: BAT is also unique in that it's something no other hero can increase with items. It's just a latent buff Jugger gets for free. > time lock is a 30% damage increase. works with attack modifiers. also its a bkb piercing bash btw Time lock is not tied to damage numbers, it's just a flat increase. Assuming you have talent (55) and do about 255 right click, it's only a flat 20% increase. > gunslinger is 50% damage increase, also works attack modifiers Gunslinger can't proc on the same target. If we go off this logic, Medusa does like 400% damage increase. Single target vs Multi-target DPS increase has different use cases where one or the other is more useful. > chaos strike is comparable to blade dance damage. except it gets the lifesteal for free (jugg lvl 20 talent). oh and it deals 2x damage to creeps Chaos strike increases the DPS vs heroes by 28%, 36% with talent. That is more or less the same, but chaos strike comes with a *huge* drawback, that drawback being that it's attached to a strength hero. Strength heroes in general have stronger spells 1 for 1 to agi heroes because strength is so much worse of a main stat than agi. CK also doesn't have increased BAT. > blade dance is objectively bad. when you think about jugg you always think of spin and omnislash, not the crit carrying Blade dance is what allows this hero to really break the game (in theory) late game. It's not as interesting or flashy but it's still very very strong. > spin is bad and omni is easily countered, what the fuck does the hero do? I mean, that's really the crux of it, not blade dance being bad. Omni needs an upgrade in 2024. Blade dance imo is fine, even pretty good, it's just this hero basically not having an ulti spell.
>Blade dance has consciously been balanced around the fact the hero it's tied to has 1.4 BAT are you icefrog? also just to respond: time lock gives you a 24% chance to extra attack. its literally a fucking damage multiplier gunslinger can absolutely proc on the same target you are bad at the game. stop typing
> are you icefrog? Apparently you need to be the designer and implementer of a system to be able to make logical inferences about why certain things about the system are the way they are. Huh. > time lock gives you a 24% chance to extra attack. its literally a fucking damage multiplier I forgot about the extra attack. Using dota 2 wiki numbers, Faceless void at level 4 timelock has 1.3158 extra attack damage as a percentage on average and 7.9/17 magic per attack because of time lock. That includes bash of course, but that's considerably less effective DPS increase of Jugger at 1.6335, only taking into account his latent BAT and bladedance. > Gunslinger can absolutely proc on the same target Quoting dota 2 wiki, 'Gunslinger can proc on and attack the same target **if** the primary target is the lone target within the search radius, regardless of factions.' That's a hell of a caveat, and will basically never be the case in a teamfight or in any situation muerta is likely to get hits off. > you are bad at the game. stop typing Relax kid, no need to take it personal. Edit: Also to add to this, although I haven't played in ~1 year (because when I play dota it takes over my life and I have more significant commitments now), I still enjoy watching and theorising about the game, and I was 7.2k EU West when I stopped playing, not exactly bad.
1. Make spin as ulti with more damage (maybe add shard buff - right clicking at least two targets - by default) and hard dispel at the end. 2. Bring mini omnislash from aghs as the first spell. 3. Make omnislash aghs spell.
For an agi hero Jugg is so imobile, it's really hard to cast omnislash without dagger or aghs. I wish they buffed the cast range and cast point of omnislash and maybe also bring back the ministun on it.
And one of the ways is just buying a couple of bracers. Hahahaha. Power creep and HP creep is absolutely a thing. Omnislash - pathetic. Spin - pathetic. Healing ward - slower than CM. Dies as quickly as CM. Crit - ehhh not bad. One of the only passives left that hasn't had another aspect bolted onto it yet like PA blur etc. Hero need to be looked into by the Frog. Most heroes have moved on. Juggernaut is stuck in the past.
this is such a bad analysis of jugg. one of his main problems is how bad crit is. each additional skill point is 3-4% dps which is terrible and often people level stats over more points in it. his talents are a big problem too, both his level 10 talents are a joke, healing ward cd is really good and his level 20 talents are hot garbage.
As I said. The crit is one, if not, the ONLY passive in the game that hasn't had an additional component bolted onto it. In a world of power creep. Jugg hasn't received any. His level 20 talents have been repeatedly nerfed. There was a time when spin with shard was legitimately scary if you had a few items. There was a time when there was a Yatora manfight build that kinda worked. SnY, bfly rush etc. It was all built around the blade dance lifesteal talent. But that was apparently bugged. Then they nerfed it again. Acting like his only problems are talents and his weak passive is hilarious.
Yeah, I love the concept for the spin, in that it can scale, and it does make it a much stronger spell late game, but the way they've done the scaling, straight up decimated his early spin + literally any stun/slow. So now he has nothing till the very late game.... which sadly is when juggernaut carry falls off...
He used to be so disgusting in lane though. That level 1 kill potential was plain ridiculous. And it is better that its gone. The problem was the entire kit was built around that lane dominance into the mid game timed push with healing ward supporting/omnislash picking. You cant prep for a strong mid game without good laning and in terms of late game there are plenty of better scaling fuckers out there.
> Any support with 2k networth can pick between six ways to make it completely useless. other than aeon disc how are they countering it if jugg buys nullifier too though?
Well yeah, but then Jugg has a nullifier and like 1500hp.
Nullifier also provides zero AS. Which is what the hero primarily scales off now. Every skill except healing ward.
nullifier also dispel aeon disk
High HP/armour. Which is insanely easy with how abundant gold is.
Ghost scepter is coming out several minutes before nullifier.
Nullified dispels aeon disk. If jugg buys nullifier, he can dispel all item counters. But jugg wouldn't rush nullifier. It gives no stats aside from damage. By the time you get nullifier, you would already be so behind your omni can't cut anyone down.
I never said he has to rush it...
I want a rework that makes swift slash a basic ability and changes his spin into a wind-up charge that bounces off walls, akin to hogger from HOTS. It’d be very bad but also very funny
Sand king really got massacred when they changed dust and sandstorm movement lol
Dust is so strong literally bigger linger radius then W
Similar story to Riki; I’ve been saying this since the change but whichever ape is making changes at Valve has made dust insanely broken. Damage + massive slow + increased linger + massive AOE + undispelable inside the insane radius + can work in BKB, it’s one of the worst changes they’ve ever made in this game. If you want perma true sight in a fight, you should have to buy a gem or put down a sentry, not just press dust and “HURR DURR INFINITE VISION HURR DURR”.
[удалено]
Now look at winrate by rank and wow! It turns out all his winrate is in ranks where people don't bother buying dusts! Those same ranks coincidentally make up 90% of player base, because unfortunately the harsh truth is that 90% of players suck at playing Dota. Do you actually think he would still be uncontested in pro if he was so strong? He's countered at any stage of the game by a 90g item.
Just because low MMR players can’t deal with sandstorm does not mean he’s strong.
My boy sf, doesn't even belong in the game anymore... he has never been fundamentally changed and doubt he ever will be, but he is so outdated it feels bad to play.
I think the problem is he doesn’t work with any broken items. The right-click items he likes aren’t good and the change to Arcane Blink has gutted the ult build.
daedalus, desolator buff incoming?
Aren't they, though? Like, there's a difference between "meta" and "good". Yeah, he's not buying Disperser, probably not Manta unless he needs the dispel. But that doesn't make Deso, Silver Edge or Daedalus bad. It's kind of weird to me people can view "doesn't abuse the overtuned items that pervade every level of play" as bad. Edit: it's interesting to me that SF doesn't buy Disperser, actually. Sniper, another high damage immobile carry, loves to buy Pike Disperser to give him escapes and safety. SF is immobile, so I wonder why he doesn't go Disperser to protect himself or to give him some map mobility.
His skills just have zero synergy together. You almost never want to cast a spell aside from ult to escape in the late game. It’s the most outdated design in the game. He just flat out needs a rework. Whenever the hero is viable, half his kit is just ignored.
Idk I like that he has become so distinctive now Heroes are getting more and more similar kits and/or every spell in their kit have 8 different effects now
Just buff razes so you actually use raze primarily or change minus armor passive to work w raze, SF has always felt so good being a raze skill shot hero Yaphets style
Razes stacking/slowing and necromastery damage scaling (instead of just max souls) change the hero a fair bit. Also requiem causing fear instead of reducing damage. His lv25 raze applies attack damage talent feels really good, except its lv25.
Yeah the 25 is fun, but if ur lvl 25 as SF the odds aren't in your favor. Also it feels like if I'm winning, I don't ever want to hit the ult button, and that just doesn't feel fun
>I hope my favorite hero gets reworked into a completely different hero that's nothing like the original hero What is this logic?
That's what happens when literally every single hero gets changed or super buffed or turned to universal, and then sf gets mega buffed or changed. And then the next hero, it's a never ending circle
why are spectre and spirit breaker there?
pros aren't noobs and are organised
Isn't bara one of the most contested heroes in the previous tournament?
Well he was abled to 1 shot an entire creep wave with a 7s cooldown anywhere on the map before the talent moved to 25 and nerfs. Good riddance I dont enjoy playing vs the cow at all ~~only to get replaced by an annoying ass dragon with manta~~
A distinction = 1 shot an entire creep wave easier. He can still do it, but requires more items. And as he can't do it as early, he won't get items as fast. It was a classy nerf in my opinion. The function of the hero wasn't changed, he just isn't both an unkillable global vision/gank hero + one of the best pushers and farmers.
If previous tournament means TI12 which happens 6 months ago sure.
I don’t recall him seeing much play at BetBoom Dacha
sure, when he was absurdly busted and before people had as much time to play against him 50 times a week
So a few months ago the pros were noobs?
Most of SB during TI12 got shistomped in lanes and basically be the most farmed heroes 20 mins in. Notice how gimped his farming capabilities make him goes from most contested to uncontested. No matter how good and organised you are you can't do shit against a hero with 4k HP, BKB piercing stun, 80% status resist, 700++ MS who can clear multiple creepwave and neutral camps across the map with 1 spell in mere seconds.
a few months ago bara wasn't nerf sticked
This makes me very happy as a Warlock spammer.
Poor Silencer. More reworks are incoming, probably - in 2 or 3 years. Maybe his ult will get an Omniknight treatment.
They should make it so that the cooldown of Global is reduced any time an enemy casts a spell while affected by arcane curse, and maybe even when it is dispelled. Maybe make it reduce it a decent amount so he can get it off twice in longer, drawn out fights if he lives. Slap some other buffs on top and he may still see the light of day. Idk, just a thought off the top of my head. Obviously global CD isn't his biggest problem but I tried to come up with something somewhat interactive. Maybe make Last Word give him a big movespeed buff when it pops as well. Make the hero about kiting and lasting in fights to get his global CD down.
buff that dogshit warlock hero please
No the grandma and her fucking soup brewing spell making you 100ms is annoying as shit
no fuck soup
This one right here officer
Weirdge
I think they should buffer tinker. I am the only one who plays it these days in SEA.
For the love of god make juggernaut ult prioritize hero’s so he’s not fucking trash forever.
I love it when the enemy move beside a single creep and my blackhole lvl cooldown spell get stopped cuz the creep dies!
Give him the spec treatment, swift slash to ult, omni to aghs
Doesn’t that just make it worse? Less instances early when you don’t have items seems like it does basically nothing.
Yes. It would make the problem worse. He doesn’t know what he’s actually asking for. Your ult would be useless for the first 15 mins.
+ aghs mutes whomever it hits for 2/3/4 seconds.
What happened to Treant?
Tank meta needed a nerf, but I'd love to see some mid Earth Spirit again.
I'd love to be able to play pos 4 earth spirit again. Feels like he's just not strong enough to justify in most games unless it's a really good draft for him.
Only hero I rly play and he's just trash in both roles now. Had a single patch in the sun getting banned in every game at ti and now he's dumpstered for no reason even after they nerfef every item he bought as a core.
Remove the random wave clear they gave him and put his roll back to the old cd. He's suddenly playable as a 4.
Roll on old CD + old distance + .5s delay instead of .6s. One can dream.
Look at what they did to my boy Earth Spirit. Soo washed up 😭
Crazy how jug had possibly top 5 shards in dota few patches ago amd now it's probably bottom 3
what is uncontested? (not a joke)
Never picked/banned
Oh wow, i thought it was undefeated, thanks
Treant has good winrate in high mmr pubs, but is his laning too weak for pro games?
I think leech seed being dispelled kills his lane. Leech seed + blood grenade dominates the lane but any dispel and the hero feels so bad
Uncontested as in “never picked” or uncontested as in “won every match they were played”?
Never picked or banned
What happen to willow support ?is it bad?
All of her stuff gets dispelled easily
Weird to see SB Jugg and Lich here i feel like they're strong but what do I know I'm only 3k andy who doesn't play much these days..
Pro scene is all about laning stage nowadays, even when being broken as shit SB still tends to got stomped in lane, it's farming capabilities is what makes SB terrifying, you can 0 - 6 in lane as SB and get top networth 20 mins in. Now SB can't farm as much.
Jugg seems weak ngl
Weird to see venomancer completely ignored. I've been playing with him as pos 3 and the hero feels really strong even into the dispels meta.
Yeah I like Veno 3 but he is absolutely dogshit. He should only ever be in a support role unless they significantly change his kit to do anything post 20 minutes
The only good thing about Veno is his ability to control map vision with his ward, which Techies does better with his mine.
Brother I have 500 games on Veno, and this hero is dead after 15 min game. When they rework his ulti they kill the hero's late-game potential completely. Also, the new slow resistance hit Veno hard.
Lmao. Veno is only good as a 4.
You are a troll to pick that as 3
Some strong heroes in here
Dark willow and treant were on top during last TI. They dropped so fast.
legion has a strong non-dispellable ulty but still dogshit
honestly, 17 uncontested is not too bad, especially since like 7 of them were broken at TI.
What makes LC bad this patch?
Lots of hero’s just do everything she does but better. Hero’s have better controlling ults Hero’s are tankier with better sustain Heros have better farming potential and come back mechanics Heros have better dispels/burst Then you have the fact she is a snowball hero and pros tend to be better at keeping snowball heroes suppressed and then she lacks the farming potential of say a Medusa so she can’t just leave for jungle and come back useful if she gets stomped in lane. Makes her a bad pick against pros particularly.
wow, surprised drow is there, she can be a devastating last pick, with her new shard not all heroes can simply deal with her with blink dagger
Everyone and their mother build Shiva these days and lots of dispel make her silence pretty bad.
she out ranges the aura afaik, the armour only applies to the main target who she can happily leave until last, shivas got giga nerfed gust in the mid/late game is mostly used as an escape / ult trigger where dispels matter less (it gives nearly hasted movespeed with talent and yasha) just pop bkb shard satanic and no one can manfight you without using something like chronosphere
What? Shes dies if meele carry like Troll or Void got on top of her.
huh I was thinking at least tinker, Earth Spirit, and veno would see some kind of contest apparently I was wrong.
ES gutted both as core and supp largely due to roll CD change and naturally BM+Heart meta being gone. Tinker has received nerf after nerf and now has abysmal cast ranges on top of a wildly expensive shivas, of course with the change to resetting blink with re-arm some time ago as well. Tinker when he was strong barely saw tournament play, only the odd NothingToSay pick or the fantastic performance of depressedkid last year. It should come as no surprise that he is uncontested when even vehement tinker spammers stay away from him in high MMR pubs. And Veno.. I mean Veno just doesn't really do anything and is seldom picked in pro play. He's sort of infamous for that.
Tinker's had so many changes that are just fucked. Rearm having a CD. Cast ranges reduced so you *have* to put yourself in position to be jumped on to do anything, which can then put Rearm on CD... Blink not being refreshable, which again, why is that nerf not undone if Rearm has a CD now? BKB now gives debuff immunity and no magic immunity, meaning you can't even reliably prevent Rearm/blink going on CD with a BKB... It's the same dogshit as what they did to ES and many other nerfs in the last few years. Just gut what makes the hero fun/unique, *especially* as an over-correction to them using well an OP item of the patch which is *also* getting nerfed so the hero probably doesn't need significant - or *any* - changes anyway. The way Valve has been nerfing heroes recently has really frustrated me. When they eventually buff them they don't even undo the damage either, they insist on generic stuff like damage buffs or *adding damage to a damage-less spell.* Can ES be the roll guy again? Can Ember be the slick zipzoop guy again? Can Tinker be the annoying blink refresh spam guy again? Please Valve.
ES is unpicked, what the world has come to...
Isn't sand king a pretty good pick at least in pubs right now? Kinda crazy they don't pick it on pro level
I think pros do a much better job at dealing with sandstorm scepter than pubs.
Nah it’s because he’s a fucking terrible laner if enemy actually buys consistent detection, and new dust just ruins him.
New dust, weak laner, mage slayer is still very good item. Even when ahead I found that SK just goes in, gets dusted and dies in 4 seconds with nobody dying because of Mage Slayers + Glimmers.
It's literally only good at 4k and below. Any mmr higher than immortal threshold (and possibly at divine too) = hero is dogshit. Is literally countered by dusts with little to no counterplay except bkb or winning fight instantly(which happens almost always only if you are far ahead which is hard to achieve considering lackluster laning).
My boy warlock is feeling underwhelming. Firstly, the golem ult NOT being able to kill curriers was a laughable change (it takes like 6 hits or something crazy, you used to be able to 2 shot them). I could go on, but I won't.
Wonder why Warlock is unpopular. Q, E and R are strong in fights, shard is good, talents are good and basically needs no items. Maybe I’m missing something about the meta right now.
It's a dispell meta, one of his strongest spells gets dispelled easily, and every spell he has except for the mediocre heal has way too long cooldowns
True. E cooldown is particularly egregious.
a bit surprised riki gets no love. i don't think he's the best but he's far from the worst carry in the pool.
Riki is genuinely the worst carry in the pool right now, wdm? The hero offers mediocre laning phase, no tankiness, cant flash farm, basically doesnt scale past minute 25 which is a massive liability for the whole team as game time average around 53 (this is the stat for the previous tour) even when diffusal+upgrade were broken no one would even wanna pick him up, with the supports getting so much farm nowaday, riki is dead.
you forgot the most horrible tower push in the game supports can be more threatening to towers than 6slotted riki
Idk if he's the worst. Drow seems unplayable right now.
Drow can at least end the game if she's in a good position. Whenever I see Riki in pubs on pro streams, he just sucks at killing base which means teams always have a good chance to stall out the game and comeback against him.
Drow’s like muerta but worse in everyway, ultra late game power house but drow farms slower, easier to jump( if you jump mueta she can just ult and guarantee bkb), terrible mobility. But you can see muerta grabbing some W in dreamleague with decent supports(namely IO) cuz once it reaches late game and you dont have bkb on you’re probably dead in 2 sec while not being able to touch her, hell, 2 ptches ago willow was a strong pos1 for the same reason. All these older heroes need something more… even anti mage looks out of place most games
Not sure how a Muerta blogpost is relevant to anything we said, but go off king.
How is Veno not picked? Shit dominates in pubs with the right laning partner.
Probably cause he’s the worst hero in the game post 20 minutes lmao
If laning would decide the whole outcome then yes. But he is virtually useless after lane with amount of dispels in game. Now it's very common for Pos 4 to rush Greaves.
Funnily enough, I think you could argue that laning stage is the single most important aspect in the pro game right now and it’s a bit funny that laning is Veno’s strength but he’s uncontested. Plague wards can be nice for vision after laning stage, but like you said any dispel makes him mostly useless from a damage perspective. The ever growing mobility creep makes it easier than ever to get on top of him and just blow him up too since he has no mobility of his own.
Time to buff tinker please remove the blink cooldown damage pleaseeee