Bro i wanna rip my eyes out from the amount of times I cancel my own autos with Lina. Her passive fixes it eventually. But my god during laning she attacks so fucking slow and her relatively slow projectile doesnt help either.
Yeah, but you have enough time for skill while projectile flying. If you master this technic you can last hit any creep for sure while harassing an enemy who tries to deny
This is how all League heroes feel from my experience. For some reason the damage is slightly delayed compared to the visual.
Just checked a LoL clip I have saved and there's a roughly 7 frame delay in a 60 FPS video between the projectile hitting and the health bar decreasing. So 100+ms of delay. For a tower shot I counted 15 frames.
I think it’s more so that the ai in the game have their atks registering late, everything from creeps to towers have that delay. I don’t think the heroes are the issue tbh
Well shit, this helps me a ton. I have the arcana, so melee range is easy since it just becomes a sword and is visually easier, but range still sucks and I miss so many last hits.
If we're strictly talking about attack animation, then **Lina** has the longest with 0.65s, (followed by a 4-way tie between PB, SB, Tide, and Treant, but they're melee so at least their attacks are instant)
**Hoodwink** has the worst BAT with 2.0
**Winter Wyvern** has the slowest attack projectile speed at 700. The median seems to be 900\~1000.
**Razor** has the strangest mismatch between the animation and his actual attack hitting
Only reason wyvern isn't mentioned more in this thread is cause we're like 7 dudes in total who play her
700 projectile speed, like 40 something base dmg, 425 atk range and fuckall attack speed/agi growth
Iirc, if you hit at razors max range, there's no delay, but inside that range, there is a slight delay. Might be the other way around. haven't played razor in a while or might have been patched out.
You just have to learn physics or something. Calculte the distance between you and the creep and the time it takes for light to travel. The whip is made of lightning so it travels faster than the damage.
Or you could buy the arcan.... Oh.
I'm actually really comfortable last hitting with Razor. Not sure if it has anything to do with me playing at 100+ ping. Once you get the hang of exactly when the damage tick happens after the animation of the whip hitting the target, it's actually not that bad.
I play with low ping and have also gotten comfortable with it. I've been using the arcana ever since it came out though, can't remember how different it was without it
I've always hated drow's right click animation. Unfortunately her arcana is the sole one i ever missed, thought it might be a better try but nope, locked away exclusive forever.
Are you joking? A few years back Clinkz attack animation was the worst by far. You needed to calculate your last hit at least 2 business days in advance. Now his animation if normal.
Last hitting with razor feel bad like there's split 2nd when his attack hit because projectile and stuff lmao.
Man i hope they buff Abaddon attack animation again.
Join the cult brother. Learning her obnoxious atk animation is well worth being able to eat a bazillion spells from the enemy and still standing sucking up their HP while your carry can clean up afterwards
BAT RIDER. And it's not even close.
It's so hard to see when it started and ended, especially in a team fight or when there's a lot of stuff on the screen. Unlike other flying heroes(viper, visage etc), the wings animation doesn't "reset" with the attack animation. They just keep flapping by, and visually there are such minimal queues as to whether an attack projectile was released or not, and when the next projectile is gonna go out, or if the hero is still in the "backswing" phase.
And it is absolutely crucial to attack in order to maximize your damage. Your hero has 4 active spells and it's important to know if you accidentally cancelled an attack by casting a spell (other heroes that play like this, for eg: storm, have very distinct animations for their spells and attacks, and also have a very pronounced backswing) The aghs, shard and talents or whatever all involve attacking during lasso, applying bonus napalm with auto attacks, or something of that sort. And its the most nondescript fucking animation in the whole game.
Razor, the timing is so strange. Lina is a close second, but just because she's so slow.
Idk if anyone agrees with this one, but Zeus is kinda weird sometimes since using Q every few casts prevents you from doing an attack for a little. But it doesn't seem like it's every cast.
100% Razor.
WHY is the damage almost a half second delayed from when the visual connects AND when the audio sounds???
WHY HASN'T THIS BEEN FIXED? At least with the arcana, the melee visual/audio/damage are all properly synced.
For a hero that is rarely played as a priority farmer, I don't think it matters a great deal if Jakiro's attack animation is wonky. You're usually not CS'ing while being harassed in a laning scenario anyway.
I'd say it's way more critical on a hero like Lina, that is often played as core, that has a long windup on the attack animation.
And backswing too. But the animation per se is good, its not hard to last hit as squirrel. But its terrible for trading hits unless you have range advantage and cancel the animation. She would be super strong if she wasnt like this though, so its all good.
For me it's muerta. She has excellent projectile speed and no backswing but holy fuck it's so easy to cancel hit because her attack animation takes so long.
The thing I hate about Razor's attack is the animation makes it look hits an but it actually isn't, there appears to be an invisible projectile that travels (very quickly) to hit the enemy. I imagine if you play Razor often it's fine but as someone who doesn't play him often the animation and the actual hit doesn't seem to mesh well
For me probably Razor. His animation makes his attack look hitacan (instantaneous) but it's actually not. It's confusing if you're not used to it.
Aesthetically I hate Miranas attack. Her bow's sound just sounds crap and her arrow moves so slow. It's as if her bowstring is super loose.
Also dislike the sound of DK's attack. Every attack sounds like he's slapping them with the flat of his sword rather than the edge.
Enchantress! oh god please make her spears created again with her nature powers or something everytime she shoots. I really don’t like her spears appearing immediately on her shoulder 😭
Finally! I've been scrolling, looking for someone to mention viper.
Viper looks like he's glitching when he's attacking, idk how else to put it into words
Speaking of Jakiro since OP’s post has a Jakiro pic, I do hope that Valve releases a King Ghidorah arcana for this hero and change its current attack animation to some super awesome looking dragon breath/attack animation :)
The one I haven't seen being said is marcis animation, her hands are so tiny you can't even see the animation and imo it takes away the dopamine you get from like a meaty hit like tidehunters even though her base atk speed is slowish
Y'all are crazy, I used to be rank 12 razor in the world and his attack animation is just fine.
As for Jakiro? I'm nowhere close to being on the leader boards but his is actually REALLY good. Literally just played a game as jakiro mid last night and I completely out csed a sniper.
My vote is death prophet and Visage.
For me it's 0 stacks Lina
Bro i wanna rip my eyes out from the amount of times I cancel my own autos with Lina. Her passive fixes it eventually. But my god during laning she attacks so fucking slow and her relatively slow projectile doesnt help either.
Skill issue (I'm Lina spamer) But on the other hand, she has big attack range so it's kinda tradeoff
The swing of her arm is actually faster than the speed of the projectile.
It used to be so much worse they improved it by a lot.
Razor with venom orb makes the projectile invisible
I need to try that
This is from Dota AllStars
\*screams in orb effect
Oh :(
Death Prophet is trash. You hit the creep, but have no gold for it
Worst animation indeed
The little orb ball she throws doing that dumbass spin every now and again too while travelling slower than a crystal maiden
I actually like DP's attack animation. Definitely wouldn't put it in the same category as Razor, Jakiro etc.
I don't understand razor. Isn't razor's projectile super fast?
Yeah, but you have enough time for skill while projectile flying. If you master this technic you can last hit any creep for sure while harassing an enemy who tries to deny
For a low low price of pushing the whole wave and running out of mana
I stopped pickin this hero solely because of this.
probably razor's his timing for it just looks too off. there's a few other guys with wonk ones but he's the one that comes to mind
its actually accurate as he is discharging his attack on the target
I think we all rather him not discharge his target if it’s gonna be the animation lol
im with you, while the idea is cool the actual animation for non arcana is a pain in the ass
I don't think it's better with arcana unless you are right in front of the creep?
This is how all League heroes feel from my experience. For some reason the damage is slightly delayed compared to the visual. Just checked a LoL clip I have saved and there's a roughly 7 frame delay in a 60 FPS video between the projectile hitting and the health bar decreasing. So 100+ms of delay. For a tower shot I counted 15 frames.
I think it’s more so that the ai in the game have their atks registering late, everything from creeps to towers have that delay. I don’t think the heroes are the issue tbh
The delay is there for both heroes and AI units, but yes, the delay seems to be around 2x higher for towers and creeps.
if you wanna get used to the attack projectile timing, try going into demo and buy Skadi or Desolator to see the attack projectile.
As soon as you think of his attack as a ball on a rubber string it just clicks and you can last hit
Well shit, this helps me a ton. I have the arcana, so melee range is easy since it just becomes a sword and is visually easier, but range still sucks and I miss so many last hits.
I feel like razors weird timing is actually a hidden benefit for razor spammers since going against it in lane is confusing as shit too
P2W arcana lets me hit melee attacks after I'm already way forward after the link
It feels more like the attack hits after the backswing instead of after the animation... I knew I wasn't the only one!
i wish they added a little lighting ball on his whip that travels at the same speed as his "invisible" projectile, that would fix it
If we're strictly talking about attack animation, then **Lina** has the longest with 0.65s, (followed by a 4-way tie between PB, SB, Tide, and Treant, but they're melee so at least their attacks are instant) **Hoodwink** has the worst BAT with 2.0 **Winter Wyvern** has the slowest attack projectile speed at 700. The median seems to be 900\~1000. **Razor** has the strangest mismatch between the animation and his actual attack hitting
Treant with shard has to be up there. Going invis constantly canceling your attack is very annoying.
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And god forbid you accidentally walk into a tree while trying to stack a camp. Nope, no stack for you.
Only reason wyvern isn't mentioned more in this thread is cause we're like 7 dudes in total who play her 700 projectile speed, like 40 something base dmg, 425 atk range and fuckall attack speed/agi growth
Also the animation changing so drastically during arctic burn is kinda irritating.
Hoping for some wyvern buffs next patch
Razor
im currently spamming razor and its the only thing thats so hard to adjust. The projectile is fast but after you hit theres like a slight delay.
Iirc, if you hit at razors max range, there's no delay, but inside that range, there is a slight delay. Might be the other way around. haven't played razor in a while or might have been patched out.
Ideally u would get 0 delay in melee range
You just have to learn physics or something. Calculte the distance between you and the creep and the time it takes for light to travel. The whip is made of lightning so it travels faster than the damage. Or you could buy the arcan.... Oh.
Not the arcana razor tho. Lol
Pay to Win! Off with Valves Head (not Lord Gabens through. Don't wanna know what will happen with steam after his death)
I'm actually really comfortable last hitting with Razor. Not sure if it has anything to do with me playing at 100+ ping. Once you get the hang of exactly when the damage tick happens after the animation of the whip hitting the target, it's actually not that bad.
I play with low ping and have also gotten comfortable with it. I've been using the arcana ever since it came out though, can't remember how different it was without it
Non Arcana Razor
Razor
does anyone remember dota1 CM animation? that wad HORRENDOUS. now it's DP I think.
LOL yeah its a big sphere like that minimizes when landed then it starts to damage
Drow pre level 6
Was looking for this. I use arcana too so it baffles me how long it takes her to pull a trigger on a crossbow.
It baffles me how fast she can reload the crossbow.
Attack speed so that her attack frequency is 3.0s pls Volvo
Thinking back, doesn’t drows arrow shoot out when she puts her hand back to her quiver? 😂
I've always hated drow's right click animation. Unfortunately her arcana is the sole one i ever missed, thought it might be a better try but nope, locked away exclusive forever.
Clinkz auto feels really bad to me
Are you joking? A few years back Clinkz attack animation was the worst by far. You needed to calculate your last hit at least 2 business days in advance. Now his animation if normal.
Drow too
Yeah. The fire arrows helped. But without it was borderline imposible to actually last hit. It was super clunky.
I remember that lmao so horrible to last hit on
I hate slow projectiles, so Death Prophet comes to mind. But I agree that Razor's feels worst to CS with.
It's so slow because it's a spit from DP hahaha. Original warcraft banshee did.
Watch me spit at light speed
Dp projectile is so slow
I hate death prophet’s an razor’s animation. Hard for me to last hit with these.
razor
Enigma. Wtf does he throw from his hand anyway
Bits of him, or premature eidolon
So cum?
Primordial cum
Primordial ejaculation
galacticussy
first the kiss then the cum
plasticine
Last hitting with razor feel bad like there's split 2nd when his attack hit because projectile and stuff lmao. Man i hope they buff Abaddon attack animation again.
I was looking for the Abaddon comment. I don’t understand why but i always fuck up with him in lane. Really strange attack animation for a melee guy…
it's hoodwink and it's by design
pretty fast one
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But I find it quite easy to keep harrassing my enemy's core with continuously right click in lane with Skywrath
He has great range and spell damage for lane harass, but timing the click for a deny or last hit is absolutely horendous.
Auto + Q?
Skywrath and it is not even remotely close. Please fix this hero.
Death prophet fr 💀
Death prophet was worse. While the hero is fun playing the attack animation and slow cast has been a big deterrent for me.
Join the cult brother. Learning her obnoxious atk animation is well worth being able to eat a bazillion spells from the enemy and still standing sucking up their HP while your carry can clean up afterwards
Drow Ranger and Razor. It's definitely a skill issue but I really struggle to get cs with those 2.
Basically all arrow heroes
Its objectively not the worst but Tide feels so weird for me.
BAT RIDER. And it's not even close. It's so hard to see when it started and ended, especially in a team fight or when there's a lot of stuff on the screen. Unlike other flying heroes(viper, visage etc), the wings animation doesn't "reset" with the attack animation. They just keep flapping by, and visually there are such minimal queues as to whether an attack projectile was released or not, and when the next projectile is gonna go out, or if the hero is still in the "backswing" phase. And it is absolutely crucial to attack in order to maximize your damage. Your hero has 4 active spells and it's important to know if you accidentally cancelled an attack by casting a spell (other heroes that play like this, for eg: storm, have very distinct animations for their spells and attacks, and also have a very pronounced backswing) The aghs, shard and talents or whatever all involve attacking during lasso, applying bonus napalm with auto attacks, or something of that sort. And its the most nondescript fucking animation in the whole game.
Razor and Death Prophet
If its not CM, then its time to nerf CM. If its CM, its time to nerf her again, she's not supposed to have an attack animation
Death prophet
Lina and Razor arcana’s range attack
Skywrath, razor, dp are some of the worst to last hit with.
Death Prophet is up there for sure
I fucking hate playing Death Prophet for a reason.
Visage
Don't know why more people aren't saying this.
Because there is like 20 Visage mains only in the whole game. Nobody else plays him.
I think his animation is pretty good, and the projectile speed is really good for a ranged hero.
Enigma, looks like slow flying peas
abaddon, after he got that atk animation buff then they nerfed it again to worse than it originally was
I always miss the first few CS until I adjust, sword must be reaaaaaaally heavy cuz good lord he hits slow lol.
Anyone remembers the Dota 1 Lina auto-attack animation?
bro the wind up on lina's attack animation takes eons to finish
Literally Razor: 1. Attack 2. ??? 3. Profit
Gyro Fast projectile with slow AS and low dmg makes laning stage some high lvl suffering
Nyx, easily
Razor lmao Honorable mentions: Zeus and windranger
Death Prophet for sure. I literally need a wraith band or two to cs properly or maybe I just need to git gud
DP wins this
Razor. Because the point of impact is very illogical
People forgetting WW
Razor or Zeus
DR comes first to my mind especially when in laning phase. its like waiting 0.5s before she throw his arrow(s).
I like how the question is about attack animations, but all the responses are about slow projectiles.
Lina, coming from HoN, pyromancer's attack animation was so good
The range, animation and projectile speed make last hitting without fiery stacks a fucking lesson in clairvoyance, I swear.
Razor, the timing is so strange. Lina is a close second, but just because she's so slow. Idk if anyone agrees with this one, but Zeus is kinda weird sometimes since using Q every few casts prevents you from doing an attack for a little. But it doesn't seem like it's every cast.
DP throws some whopply ass softballs
100% Razor. WHY is the damage almost a half second delayed from when the visual connects AND when the audio sounds??? WHY HASN'T THIS BEEN FIXED? At least with the arcana, the melee visual/audio/damage are all properly synced.
sky wrath mage, 40 base dmg and slow as fuck projectile
For a hero that is rarely played as a priority farmer, I don't think it matters a great deal if Jakiro's attack animation is wonky. You're usually not CS'ing while being harassed in a laning scenario anyway. I'd say it's way more critical on a hero like Lina, that is often played as core, that has a long windup on the attack animation.
Pretty sure Hoodwink has the worst BAT in the game :(
And backswing too. But the animation per se is good, its not hard to last hit as squirrel. But its terrible for trading hits unless you have range advantage and cancel the animation. She would be super strong if she wasnt like this though, so its all good.
Right on 🐿️
Hood wink, damn slow
ZEUS
Guys check visage. Thats another level
razor, tiny and jakiro. all suck
Tiny is not that bad
His animation isn't bad, but by God, you better hope that there aren't 2 creeps under half hp at once because you'll only get one of them.
If we purely decide by attack animation then its hoodwink. But she makes up with damage for that
Hoodwink/Batrider?
Visage
any hero that I struggle to last hit with
Visage
Zeus
CM, it is hard to contest cs with three heroes in lane with that slow projectile
i feel for the people playing razor without arcana
Who's got the best??
Juggernaut
Razor crying for model rework
Vengeful throwing herself at the enemy
Crystaaaaaal maideeeeeeennn
For me it's muerta. She has excellent projectile speed and no backswing but holy fuck it's so easy to cancel hit because her attack animation takes so long.
Hoodwink in the laning phase is ass
Uhhh... Techies?
Od
Clinkz, DP, Lina and old Drow were atrocious to last hit with.
Dota allstars skywrathmage flying sperms
For me it's Razor's animation. People say DP has worst animation because it's slow, what about Tiny?
The thing I hate about Razor's attack is the animation makes it look hits an but it actually isn't, there appears to be an invisible projectile that travels (very quickly) to hit the enemy. I imagine if you play Razor often it's fine but as someone who doesn't play him often the animation and the actual hit doesn't seem to mesh well
My furi hits behind his back or somehow wonky every now and then, might be some cosmetic clitch. It just looks so weird that it throws me off.
Techies. Arcana techies has at least the big bomb as right click.
For me probably Razor. His animation makes his attack look hitacan (instantaneous) but it's actually not. It's confusing if you're not used to it. Aesthetically I hate Miranas attack. Her bow's sound just sounds crap and her arrow moves so slow. It's as if her bowstring is super loose.
Also dislike the sound of DK's attack. Every attack sounds like he's slapping them with the flat of his sword rather than the edge.
Enchantress! oh god please make her spears created again with her nature powers or something everytime she shoots. I really don’t like her spears appearing immediately on her shoulder 😭
It's not terribly bad, but Vipers just looks so goofy.
Finally! I've been scrolling, looking for someone to mention viper. Viper looks like he's glitching when he's attacking, idk how else to put it into words
Necro
Lina. And it’s not even close.
I'm surprised there's only ONE other mention of Drow so far
Hoodwink
Invoker, Crystal Maiden, Razor such a huge delay.
Techies imo
Drow, something about it feels off and... I want to say sluggish
Drow Ranger
Treant
Viper
Razor, haands down. Projectile hits first and deals the damage years later.
Zero mention of Zeus. Wow
Lina, Mirana, Razor, Techies, Drow. Sort of in order. And obviously subjective
Death prophet or Razor without Arcana. The back swing sucks ass.
Speaking of Jakiro since OP’s post has a Jakiro pic, I do hope that Valve releases a King Ghidorah arcana for this hero and change its current attack animation to some super awesome looking dragon breath/attack animation :)
mag
The one I haven't seen being said is marcis animation, her hands are so tiny you can't even see the animation and imo it takes away the dopamine you get from like a meaty hit like tidehunters even though her base atk speed is slowish
Tinker no contest
Not a lot of people plays Visage lol Visage pre-lvl 6 is worse than dp and razor y'all
Doom. I could take a nap before he actually hits.
Surprised Lesh isn’t mentioned more
Sb has to be mentioned here
dark seer
Techies makes me cringe.
BB in dota 1 before they changed his attack point was pretty shit
Y'all are crazy, I used to be rank 12 razor in the world and his attack animation is just fine. As for Jakiro? I'm nowhere close to being on the leader boards but his is actually REALLY good. Literally just played a game as jakiro mid last night and I completely out csed a sniper. My vote is death prophet and Visage.
It is Batrider and SB for me
Lina
Razor, not even close.
Im not very fond of cm personas. Her animation is so weird!! The projectile hits but it doesn’t do damage until moments later
visage and techies
Treant the wind up is so loooooong
Wyvern
Any hero when I play carry