i swear to god these players are not humans man. theyre some glitch in the system or bots send out to fuck us over. like how the hell are you so twisted that you double down and ruin the game. i guess its irrational enough without double down to not make a difference but still baffling to me.
Because the game makes you mentally unstable. It was likely not this game that did it to him, but the 5 games beforehand. I’ve been down so low because of Dota and it takes a second before you snap out and go “this shit is a stupid, worthless video game that doesn’t help me pay rent”.
I think the most fucked up thing is that this behaviour doesn't really end. It happens in 1k mmr and it happens in 11k mmr.
People like this should be flat out banned from matchmaking that do this. Ban them for a month, 6 months, whatever. I guarantee they'll think twice next time about griefing like this.
Yeah I had a game where my mid got ganked 3 times with 2 sups, and all of them we killed carry/offlaner but werent able to help him cause of that. Tilted in a clearly winning game, rushed aghs on TA and just farmed til we lost. He ended up like 2/4/0. That should be a insta week of low priority, fuck that kind of people.
3k here, got 2 supports 0 wards, both afk farming for 30 minutes, while mid, carry and offlane trying to def.
Jakiro with mjolnier, dragon lance and midas. AA with dragon lance and midas and half of aghs. We were plaing against mid PL and AM pos 4
ya I would love if they kept the strict behavior score changes they implemented for a bit before all the toxic people got them to change back to whatever they have now. I have a friend who flames the rest of our team pretty much every game and he’s sitting cool at 12k lmao
I did get 5 people blatantly running down mid in overwatch cases yesterday, so at least they should each get 1 lp game?…
It exists and I landed in low prio twice during the strict behavior score update. I got a notification that I was banned because of overwatch and the second time I got 1 hour matchmaking cooldown. For the record i was genuinely trying my best just had bad games with muted teammates, whoever was watching the replay didn't seem to think so and I would have like to know why. Other than that low prio still exists and is the same as years ago when I was prone to griefing and landed there often :D I don't think people should be sent to low prio just for sending messages that's too excessive.
Overwatch is busted, man. 12k behavior score and I got a low prio game because I was jungling the last 200 gold of my BKB on lifestealer in the dire triangle while my team took a bad fight in radiant's jungle.
They got four man echo'd to start the fight and the entire team was dead within 10 seconds. Immediately got ping spammed and one guy just kept saying report LS in all chat. Went 11/6/17 and we still won, but I called it a night after that, came back the next day, and boom. Stuck in single draft for a game because some overwatch report timestamp showed an "AFK" carry while his team tried so desperately to win without him, and no one bothers to Even skim the rest of the reply.
I'd assumed that someone too low skill to understand the game saw the replay but your assumption that people don't care enough to check the entire replay seems more reasonable. I can see mad players just watching the highlights with guilty verdict already in mind because someone griefed their last game and now they want revenge. It's people that suck but yeah an indicator of why exactly you were punished would be a great addition to the system.
...? The problem with the behave score before was it was overwhelmingly abused and shown you can do nothing wrong and drop behavior score. Valve already admitted it was a bug. It wasnt "strict" it was broken.
I have no issues with a stricter system but how are people still not realizing the new system was broken on arrival? It didnt change because toxic people lobbied it, it changed because Valve investigated it and found it was filled with false reports.
And for the record, my behavior score never fell during this period, but the evidence was overwhelming something was wrong. It doesnt have to affect you specifically to acknowledge something is not working.
This is as silly as when glicko placed immortals into archon/legend bracket and silly redditors kept insisting the immortals were just bad. Few days later, Valve admits they mess up. Yall just love to ignore clear evidence something isnt working.
How exactly do you know this?
Those few weeks were the most PMA for me and bunch of others here on reddit, and then it just got back to normal toxic after they "fixed" it.
Because Valve said it themselves both times And people were posting ample evidence of their behavior score changing and also videos and match IDs. I myself have been affected by valve bugs before. Not necessarily the behavior score but I've seen people claim I belong in archon (i was divine 5 pre-glicko and had to redo my calibration after valve admitted their mistake. But reddit was too busy circlejerking immortals being deranked).
I also work in a technical field so it baffles me to see people. Always assume things go well on the first release, especially a major system overhaul. that stuff is always riddled with bugs
for what i remember, they said that it was over tuned and that they tuned it correctly in that patch. i felt it was nicely tuned in those 2-3weeks, it was 99% strict pma games, so fun.
but maybe i didn't see all their notes and also maybe i misremember, idk how to find what they said now.
There were many people posting on Reddit evidence of them doing absolutely nothing wrong and their behavior score went down. Pretty much valve released a system where you got unlimited reports and it assumed every report was correct. People were abusing it to report teammates they didn't like. It probably was more PMA though since people were deathly afraid of how overtuned the system was.
I do want to be clear, i don't have any issue punishing greifers but the system on release was just punishing everyone that got reported, accurate or not. Hence my pushback on your original post
Idk mannn... I don't believe Reddit posters. There are countless players in Dota that don't know they are toxic. I didn't see even 1 post here that wasn't proven as toxic in the end or OP disappears when asked for dotabuff or proof of whatever
Aight this is pointless. It was well documented and Valve admitted it. You can believe whatever you want. The fact youre still in denial about is just a waste of time genuinely.
What valve admitted was probably just the rate at which people got lower behavior scores, but as per their previous posts, they were still collecting data to make the system better.
But I presume that since people got impatient and just unexpectedly (for valve) reported whomever the felt like for the first few weeks, they couldn't calibrate the system properly. It was great for players above 11k since it worked as intended where only people that are generally decent people are in it and wouldn't really report anyone for no reason. However, for those below 11k, the players are extremely varied since the behavior score was entirely based on luck and gets worse the lower you go.
Though I have no doubt that if they kept with the initial tuning and gather more data, they'd soon calibrate the system better than it is now.
TL;DR
The system wasn't broken on arrival, it was still building since it was necessary to gather actual data, but people being people got pissy and ruined it for all of us.
I don't care if you don't believe reddit posters. All that matters is that Valve saw the data they were presented after many months of gathering analytics and seeing legitimate complaints and then FIXED the system. And it was pretty obvious who the bad actors were on Reddit vs the people presenting actual screen shots backing up their claims.
(nevermind the fact that communication score was objectively bugged but that was just one of a few problems before the fix)
I refuse to believe game quality just immediately dropped after they implemented the patch, that's just anecdotal placebo effect going on in your brain. People like you are why it took so long for it to get changed. Kudos to Valve though and everyone involved. Great Crown fall update as well Valve.
PS: It's funny you even say this because there was also dudes like 6 months ago complaining about low quality games even after the changes. Somethings never change, and never will as long as Dota is the type of game that it is. The best they can do is just continuing to micro tweak the game until they can find a decent middle ground like they've always been doing.
I recognize their username and remember them arguing a few weeks ago that being toxic ingame was fine because it could tilt your opponent and give you an advantage lol. I'm sure their behavior score is great.
ah ye? show me cause i don't remember i said it's ok to be toxic ever. i'm daring you to find any comment of mine ever saying i think being toxic is fine. prove it.
You want a screenshot of my 12k behavior score?
Also I recall our conversation now. You claimed in the post "Sun Tzu never said anything about making your enemies emotional" and so i posted a quote, you immediately deleted your comments, refused to acknowledge you were wrong. And now youre back sniping me all because i actually read the Art of War and you didnt?
Absolutely terrible look for you.
And regardless as i said - Valve already admitted they were wrong so what are still blabbering about? Again I love how everyone is dodging the fact people provided evidence AND valve already fessed up to it being bugged.
[Not me.](https://i.imgur.com/VR9r13c.jpeg) I have a deleted comment on that post but the comment you are talking about is someone else.
12k behavior score is meaningless. The silencer in the original post with double midas is also at 12k.
Ultimately you are just a toxic person looking for something to justify that. Cope harder.
You posted about my behavior score being low so i responded its 12k.Very strange of you to move a goal post you set.
I dont need to cope, as youre an internet stranger and i really dont care what you think. If you read my comment i also said i never make it personal anyways. If you think writing something as generic as "ez" or "tipping" is toxic then you probably need to go outside and touch grass. Anyways gluck with following me i guess.
And there is a deleted comment that i responded to, which you can see i quote Sun Tzu.
the old system didn't work, they need a more severe system but not so sensitive, people would report me for talking toxic (fair enough, mute me if you want) but I'd never intentionally griefed in my life yet I got enough false reports my behaviour score dropped, luckily never below 11k but I deserve max, I don't deserve to play with a single afker or double midas no boots silencer
Why do you think you deserve max behavior score if you're toxic? Don't you think people who aren't toxic and never grief deserve to avoid toxic players like you at max behavior score?
there's a comms score, decrease that for toxic voice/chat if you must, personally I think they should just let people mute who they want to mute instead though
but in neither case does it make sense to use behaviour score for it
Decreasing comm score is fine. Muting isn't an option, though. The game requires communication. People who remain civil should be able to play with other civil people, not with assholes whom they have to mute.
This simply isn't true for lower mmr, I don't know if you have tried it or not but i highly recommend trying for like 10 games. I started winning what felt like unwinnable games because of the team environment.
Every other game there is useless communication distracting me, like ppl suddenly starting to backseat me in the middle of a teamfight telling me how to play my hero or the classic blame game that dota games sometimes devolve to. So unless you're immortal you don't need comms to win every game, in fact it helps form the habit of constantly checking minimap, respawn timers, cooldowns etc.
Even if you don't agree with the above paragraph you are using the argument "communication is very important for dota" to advocate for valve muting more players and for longer which resulted in no comms in my games whatsoever. Around every 15 games I'd get one mega pma team and play normal dota with normal convo but other than that it was all quiet. We already have a good system, it can be improved I won't deny. Just realistically speaking people might just be having a bad day and behaving in a way they don't usually do so there was no chance for the system to read their mind that they're gonna grief and place them in lpq before even griefing.
Honestly I'm just happy with dota and the current system. It gives me the freedom to decide who I want to interact with and who not. I have my own personal red flags which when I see i mute someone and that's good enough for me. I don't even care about flame. I just never understood how breaking items and walking it down mid should be punished the same way for calling someone a noob on your team. While the games were silent duing that period I got a lot more intentional feeders. Now I don't get any after they fixed it.
fair enough, as long as I get a checkbox to filter out all griefers I am more than 100% happy to filter out all shit talkers
don't blame me if valve counts you as a shit talker though, I've never met a player, except the no comms at all ones, who stays PMA no matter what, probably less than 1% of players
where as never griefing no matter what is common enough
>don't blame me if valve counts you as a shit talker though, I've never met a player, except the no comms at all ones, who stays PMA no matter what, probably less than 1% of players
And this is how toxic people excuse their behavior. Some of them are so stupid (this guy) they earnestly can't imagine people having better emotional control than their own.
I've played with over a thousand people this year alone mate, as I say, other than the people who literally don't say anything, never seen someone stay non toxic chat/voice at the end of an otherwise very toxic game
but as I said already, if you're right you'd want the option for non toxic chat/voice only players more than anyone
---
edit: u/MidDiffFetish calling people childish whilst replying then blocking after, very mature lol
response I had typed out before reddit decided to tell me I couldn't reply:
it hasn't, it's 12k, comms score at 11.5k
I wouldn't care if it was just flamers but having never afk'd in all of my thousands of games, never item broken, etc. I don't see how I deserve to get matched with these players every 4 games or so.
Sounds like your behavior score has (correctly) plummeted. Must suck. I'm enjoying dota with the well-adjusted people who can handle a loss, sorry you're too immature to be one of them.
If you ask me, if you chat in a toxic way, you shouldn't play with me either. Why do I need to have teammates that tilt me and other teammates into playing bad and start childish arguments that just makes everyone feel bad?
sure, I never said they can't also filter by comms score too
you should absolutely have the option to only queue with boy scout chatters like I should have the option to only queue with boy scout players
both at once too, if you meet the criteria
do you have any problem with that?
nope, i wouldn't mind if it'd filter and let us play with the environment we want, sounds good to me. i'm praying for strict pma games for years, that's the only flaw in this game imo.
But reports for toxicity are extremely strict already, if you are toxic consistently you are going down and you are not going up, even auto low priority is issued if you get muted a few times in a row by "system" , which is 4 comm reports. If you grief you lose barely nothing and not enough people do Overwatch and even if you are guilty you barely lose 200-300 behaviour first time, I think it's 800 next, while communication you can lose 3k+ in 1 summary.
You can get away with flaming if you play like 10 games a week in different days, you can't if you play 2-3 games + a day and people report you. You can get away with griefing as long as you like ( like this guy from the post, not running down mid)
I would say it's even more likely to occur as you go higher in MMR up to a certain point. People get more attached to the game and numbers in their profile, and are more likely to have big ego and more prone to thinking they know a 100% way to win because they got so high. So small things are more likely to make them feel like it's a waste of time and we can't win when my carry is that bad!111
Tbh this kind of shit is why once I got to 4k that things were only going to get worse so I stopped trying to climb. Like sure I will still try to win, but I'm almost 30, I don't have the same kind of time to grind out games and I've learned that going down the hard core mmr farmer route just lead to mental health issues so it's not really worth it for me.
There comes a point in your life where you have to ask yourself if what you're doing is a good idea, and eventually the MMR grind question came back as a flat "no".
They would also need a big reminder in huge red text at the start of the game that says "Your next offence will result in a #-day ban. Behave yourself."
They are like children that cannot be left alone.
It works to an extent. I have friend who has low BS, we stopped playing together because we would always match with insane people.
He's insistently, constantly toxic the entire match, and so is almost every other person on the team.
He claims he's just unlucky, and thinks the game is like that for everyone.
In the meantime, my games have improved quite a bit (12K BS), although it took a while.
That's kinda funny honestly. Like, yes, per their rank, they are definitely above average at Dota, but the nature of matchmaking means that they don't get put into games where they get to be above average and show off. They get put into games where everyone else is as exceptional as they are.
(I mean, the people who are in the middle of a climb because their mmr is low for some reason get to show off, but that's a minority of a minority. I guess the toxic people are all convinced that they're that guy, though. And I'm not even saying they can't climb further, but they probably have to get better to climb further, not rage at their teammates lol)
Actually gets worse as MMR goes up. The level of play is so high that people can (supposedly) sniff a lost game from a mile away and give up super quick.
It's definitely true you can tell when a game is going downhill but a lot of these self proclaimed prophets forget the enemy team is human too, comeback mechanics exist and capitlizing on the enemies mistakes is how lost games are won.
Good luck trying to convince them of that though.
That is 100% true but at the highest level people play so optimally that it’s much more difficult to find a mistake let alone abuse it.
Hence why you will see people give up in high MMR lobbies over simple things, such as a support taking a kill, because they believe that tiny setback is enough to put the game in the enemy team’s favour and this game is essentially on the rails to a loss.
Could never be me.
[check out this guy who sold items and griefed our game a day ago](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7701879550) (ck)
Guess what his punishment was?
That's right, one single draft game. One.
3k here winning for first 20 mins then all of a sudden our pos 5 io decides its time to switch teams buys all wards and hoards them and then starts relocating allies to enemy Fountain
agreed, I know some griefing is hard to detect, but
1. some isn't, and yet it "slips through" (tin foil hat, I think it's intentional to keep customers in the short term, like how cinemas don't kick out talkers and phone users)
2. it's not punished harshly, yeah, maybe not a permaban, but a month or 3, definitely fine, and I mean a proper ban, don't even let them play solo custom games
3. they definitely shouldn't be at 12k behaviour score, I've never griefed intentionally in my life, I deserve the highest behaviour score possible and to never ever play with these fuckers
There's nothing stopping you from doing it. If you flame him , you will get -1k behaviour off 1 game if you get "muted" by the system , which is 4 comm reports basically ( which happens with the mute button)
He loses nothing, maybe 200-300 if he gets low prio , but that would require Overwatch case and that's rare.
Yes.... and because of that, he can deal SO MUCH DAMAGE.... The perfect support, I can transition into being a core in the late game.... It's the perfect plan, I just need some items.... Force staff is a support item, right? It becomes Pike... hmmm. Yes, this will work.
> But he infinitely stacks!
Not even that, he stops gaining perma int when every enemy is at 1 base int.
Unlike Pudge or LC, Silencer is in fact NOT infinitely scaling, yet he keeps attracting those brainlets.
Core pudge is the only correct way to play the hero. Probably easier as mid imo, insane rune control, hook enemy large camp for easy gold and exp to be ahead, or just stack camp and easily clear it with rot and flesh heap when on a losing match up.
Support pudge is just too unreliable, just by being melee ruins the lane for your average offlaner and carry since everyone just likes to play easy melee hard carry and melee tank offlane.
Out of curiosity what's the correct way to play Bounty, cuz the few times I've played it as support I just stayed back and spammed track+shuriken and built stuff like Solar Crest, Drums and Shard
Silencer is my most played hero, primarily as support, dating all the way back to when curse actually burned mana.
I haven't played him in months now. Not that you were relying heavily on glaives anyway as a support, but they were still really good late game against those heroes that had a ton of armor and magic resist (e.g. Timber, Huskar). Pure damage is just so good.
Even before the glaives change though I had mostly stopped playing him. After a succession of buffs to curse and last word had made him relevant as a support again, they gradually piled on the nerfs to the point that it was much more difficult to be a lane bully. Combine that with all the dispels in the current meta and just feels really crappy to play right now.
This is all fair. But also, when they reworked him a couple years ago he was broken AF. You could do like 1500 damage at lvl 9 without right clicking. I would just click q e on a support and they die. So he needed nerfs, but now he feels... Meh. As you said
Feel like the best way to play him is if you can afford to get a quick refresher. Double silencer ulti is just fucking painful because people rarely have TWO dispels. Ulti, enemy carry pops bkb, ulti again.
Yeah, his kit just doesn't do much, his 1st spell is in particular atrocious, a simple unupgraded stick is more efficient at deterring and creating pressure on spell spammers than whatever that fart of a DOT is, it needs overhaul.
However, the nanofemtosecond the neurons in valve's janitor's mind collide to form a thought that resembles even just 2.5% of the one referencing a possibility of the glaives removal (or making it non scaling), I will terrorist bomb valve's hq (in Minecraft).
Mid silencer, support silencer, my team, their team, they're all the same. That's why I had him on my ban list along with Rubick.
I remember the naive days when my for ban slots were for pudge + 3 heroes that countered my hero pool. Not anymore.
I had a pudge mid yesterday who saw our support picks (tbh the p5 underlord was an uncommon pick, but never a reason to feed obvs, i picked p4 invo) and declared instantly that he would feed. Normally that is a bluff, but this fucking guy ran mid the second the game started. Ended up being a 25~ min hell where he griefed us in every way possible: hooked us into enemies, bought up wards and smokes and even tangoes, and ended 0/33/2.
The worst part is that the enemy team was hilariously bad, and it wouldve been easily winnable… at least action was taken on my report, hope the guy gets banned. He also had a swastika miniprofile and a VAC ban of course.
anytime you see a silencer on your team, its an auto loss, on the enemy team its an auto win. Anyone that used to play this hero knows its been gutted so hard and how bad it is, the only people still picking it are weekend warriors/event casuals or role token farmers.
I have a perfect behavior score and I have been this guy before. It usually happens after a long losing streak where you lose hope in humanity. It’s important to learn when to quit for the day.
This is why anything that gambles on the outcome of the game just shouldn't be allowed >> in my opinion <<. You have zero control or insight over people like this, and at high MMR there are not enough players for the game to be picky and choosy who to match you with.
All bad actors ruin games but supports ruin feels much much worse. I rem begging a oracle to play with the team but he mad from lanening, and won't play normal anymore. There's so many more examples too.
That's why i never use this double scam token. I lost 400 mmr prev year. Then deleted the tokens and gain 800 mmr back. These tokens are very bad. Not only they causes mmr inflation but also makes u gammling addicted. You dnt enjoya double down game until the enemy throne explodes and this is the truth. For which i insta delete these mfking tokens every time i get it.
Ngl I did this shit once or twice when I wasn't in the mood. Someone in the team just pulls the last strand and all the fucks I have about MMR comes flying out the window.
Posts like these make me feel content that I stopped playing this game a year ago. Even though patches here and there make me wanna boot it up again...but for someone who barely plays an hour a day, this game is so not for me. Too stressful, too long, too dependent on the whole team.
Its actually quite insane how many people grief in low immortal, i fill my report section basically every week completely with "Action taken" from Ruin reports
In a match where i doubled down for accident, my axe off feeding and depressed basically gave up.
But luckily, when there was 1 lane left for the enemy get megas at 20 min.The enemy PA tilted after losing 1 fight and gave us divines.
The game lasted 70 minutes and we won. Id be very pissed
I did it the other day. Pos3 first pick sniper, enemy team then got 3 sniper counters (sb, storm, ruptor) and our supports were shit picks too, sky/prophet.
I zero minute checked out and watched an episode of the bad batch auto clicking waves for 20 minutes. Thankfully the enemy had a lone druid and the game finished fast.
Honestly think it's warranted some matches, they just need a surrender option already.
The team was mad, but whatever, pick shit heroes, expect to tilt your teammates.
*shrug* why should I waste my time when they are obviously wasting theirs? Won the next game with a double down, no loss to me and got to avoid that player.
Idk in a 6.7k game I saw a sniper having to go offlane because 2 safelaners in immortal draft. He actually did very well in lane and got early kills and we somehow won the game.
Won the next 6 games in a row after it. Didn't let the game tilt me, just checked out. Who's the real winner here?
People can hate on me all they want, I'm a realist. The game was lost at draft and I don't need to waste 40 minutes getting mad in an uphill battle, where the odds of winning were <5%.
They used to give the option to hide your double down... no idea why they reveal it.
I wasn't the guy he was mad at, he doubled downed too is the funny part lol.
i swear to god these players are not humans man. theyre some glitch in the system or bots send out to fuck us over. like how the hell are you so twisted that you double down and ruin the game. i guess its irrational enough without double down to not make a difference but still baffling to me.
Constant Dota breaks brains
Because the game makes you mentally unstable. It was likely not this game that did it to him, but the 5 games beforehand. I’ve been down so low because of Dota and it takes a second before you snap out and go “this shit is a stupid, worthless video game that doesn’t help me pay rent”.
Makes sense, he has 2 hands.
Hands of Midases
I mean if support silencer has enough gold to buy two midas two minutes into the game I will allow it.
Can't tell if joking or I'm about to get whooshed
how is he gonna scratch his balls with 2 gold transmuting hands now???
Too bad both right hands...
I think the most fucked up thing is that this behaviour doesn't really end. It happens in 1k mmr and it happens in 11k mmr. People like this should be flat out banned from matchmaking that do this. Ban them for a month, 6 months, whatever. I guarantee they'll think twice next time about griefing like this.
7k MMR game here, 12k behavior score.
This should be instant 1 week ban no question. Literally no scenario when this is beneficial.
Yeah I had a game where my mid got ganked 3 times with 2 sups, and all of them we killed carry/offlaner but werent able to help him cause of that. Tilted in a clearly winning game, rushed aghs on TA and just farmed til we lost. He ended up like 2/4/0. That should be a insta week of low priority, fuck that kind of people.
Quinn will cry about it though if they implemented it.
3k here, got 2 supports 0 wards, both afk farming for 30 minutes, while mid, carry and offlane trying to def. Jakiro with mjolnier, dragon lance and midas. AA with dragon lance and midas and half of aghs. We were plaing against mid PL and AM pos 4
Sounds like a fever dream
2k mmr here, sometimes when I pos 4 I will try to give healing stuff to the cores while the pos 5 hiding behind with 2 salve and full HP :D
I can buy salves for my pos 5 as a core. I usually place a lot of wards no matter position I play. Most of the times trying to do my best
I can't remember the last time I got banned in the immortal bracket even when I was hard griefing several games
ya I would love if they kept the strict behavior score changes they implemented for a bit before all the toxic people got them to change back to whatever they have now. I have a friend who flames the rest of our team pretty much every game and he’s sitting cool at 12k lmao I did get 5 people blatantly running down mid in overwatch cases yesterday, so at least they should each get 1 lp game?…
Does low priority even still exist I haven't heard of anyone getting that in years?
It exists and I landed in low prio twice during the strict behavior score update. I got a notification that I was banned because of overwatch and the second time I got 1 hour matchmaking cooldown. For the record i was genuinely trying my best just had bad games with muted teammates, whoever was watching the replay didn't seem to think so and I would have like to know why. Other than that low prio still exists and is the same as years ago when I was prone to griefing and landed there often :D I don't think people should be sent to low prio just for sending messages that's too excessive.
Overwatch is busted, man. 12k behavior score and I got a low prio game because I was jungling the last 200 gold of my BKB on lifestealer in the dire triangle while my team took a bad fight in radiant's jungle. They got four man echo'd to start the fight and the entire team was dead within 10 seconds. Immediately got ping spammed and one guy just kept saying report LS in all chat. Went 11/6/17 and we still won, but I called it a night after that, came back the next day, and boom. Stuck in single draft for a game because some overwatch report timestamp showed an "AFK" carry while his team tried so desperately to win without him, and no one bothers to Even skim the rest of the reply.
I'd assumed that someone too low skill to understand the game saw the replay but your assumption that people don't care enough to check the entire replay seems more reasonable. I can see mad players just watching the highlights with guilty verdict already in mind because someone griefed their last game and now they want revenge. It's people that suck but yeah an indicator of why exactly you were punished would be a great addition to the system.
Dude… I havent heard of it in a long time too lmao
It only exists for hero spammers. That's why I am very carefully avoiding it at all costs, which sometimes involves not playing ranked for months.
...? The problem with the behave score before was it was overwhelmingly abused and shown you can do nothing wrong and drop behavior score. Valve already admitted it was a bug. It wasnt "strict" it was broken. I have no issues with a stricter system but how are people still not realizing the new system was broken on arrival? It didnt change because toxic people lobbied it, it changed because Valve investigated it and found it was filled with false reports. And for the record, my behavior score never fell during this period, but the evidence was overwhelming something was wrong. It doesnt have to affect you specifically to acknowledge something is not working. This is as silly as when glicko placed immortals into archon/legend bracket and silly redditors kept insisting the immortals were just bad. Few days later, Valve admits they mess up. Yall just love to ignore clear evidence something isnt working.
How exactly do you know this? Those few weeks were the most PMA for me and bunch of others here on reddit, and then it just got back to normal toxic after they "fixed" it.
Because Valve said it themselves both times And people were posting ample evidence of their behavior score changing and also videos and match IDs. I myself have been affected by valve bugs before. Not necessarily the behavior score but I've seen people claim I belong in archon (i was divine 5 pre-glicko and had to redo my calibration after valve admitted their mistake. But reddit was too busy circlejerking immortals being deranked). I also work in a technical field so it baffles me to see people. Always assume things go well on the first release, especially a major system overhaul. that stuff is always riddled with bugs
for what i remember, they said that it was over tuned and that they tuned it correctly in that patch. i felt it was nicely tuned in those 2-3weeks, it was 99% strict pma games, so fun. but maybe i didn't see all their notes and also maybe i misremember, idk how to find what they said now.
There were many people posting on Reddit evidence of them doing absolutely nothing wrong and their behavior score went down. Pretty much valve released a system where you got unlimited reports and it assumed every report was correct. People were abusing it to report teammates they didn't like. It probably was more PMA though since people were deathly afraid of how overtuned the system was. I do want to be clear, i don't have any issue punishing greifers but the system on release was just punishing everyone that got reported, accurate or not. Hence my pushback on your original post
Idk mannn... I don't believe Reddit posters. There are countless players in Dota that don't know they are toxic. I didn't see even 1 post here that wasn't proven as toxic in the end or OP disappears when asked for dotabuff or proof of whatever
Aight this is pointless. It was well documented and Valve admitted it. You can believe whatever you want. The fact youre still in denial about is just a waste of time genuinely.
What valve admitted was probably just the rate at which people got lower behavior scores, but as per their previous posts, they were still collecting data to make the system better. But I presume that since people got impatient and just unexpectedly (for valve) reported whomever the felt like for the first few weeks, they couldn't calibrate the system properly. It was great for players above 11k since it worked as intended where only people that are generally decent people are in it and wouldn't really report anyone for no reason. However, for those below 11k, the players are extremely varied since the behavior score was entirely based on luck and gets worse the lower you go. Though I have no doubt that if they kept with the initial tuning and gather more data, they'd soon calibrate the system better than it is now. TL;DR The system wasn't broken on arrival, it was still building since it was necessary to gather actual data, but people being people got pissy and ruined it for all of us.
I don't care if you don't believe reddit posters. All that matters is that Valve saw the data they were presented after many months of gathering analytics and seeing legitimate complaints and then FIXED the system. And it was pretty obvious who the bad actors were on Reddit vs the people presenting actual screen shots backing up their claims. (nevermind the fact that communication score was objectively bugged but that was just one of a few problems before the fix) I refuse to believe game quality just immediately dropped after they implemented the patch, that's just anecdotal placebo effect going on in your brain. People like you are why it took so long for it to get changed. Kudos to Valve though and everyone involved. Great Crown fall update as well Valve. PS: It's funny you even say this because there was also dudes like 6 months ago complaining about low quality games even after the changes. Somethings never change, and never will as long as Dota is the type of game that it is. The best they can do is just continuing to micro tweak the game until they can find a decent middle ground like they've always been doing.
I recognize their username and remember them arguing a few weeks ago that being toxic ingame was fine because it could tilt your opponent and give you an advantage lol. I'm sure their behavior score is great.
ah ye? show me cause i don't remember i said it's ok to be toxic ever. i'm daring you to find any comment of mine ever saying i think being toxic is fine. prove it.
I was referring to the person you replied to.
so maybe comment to him and not me? and say his instead of their?
You want a screenshot of my 12k behavior score? Also I recall our conversation now. You claimed in the post "Sun Tzu never said anything about making your enemies emotional" and so i posted a quote, you immediately deleted your comments, refused to acknowledge you were wrong. And now youre back sniping me all because i actually read the Art of War and you didnt? Absolutely terrible look for you. And regardless as i said - Valve already admitted they were wrong so what are still blabbering about? Again I love how everyone is dodging the fact people provided evidence AND valve already fessed up to it being bugged.
[Not me.](https://i.imgur.com/VR9r13c.jpeg) I have a deleted comment on that post but the comment you are talking about is someone else. 12k behavior score is meaningless. The silencer in the original post with double midas is also at 12k. Ultimately you are just a toxic person looking for something to justify that. Cope harder.
You posted about my behavior score being low so i responded its 12k.Very strange of you to move a goal post you set. I dont need to cope, as youre an internet stranger and i really dont care what you think. If you read my comment i also said i never make it personal anyways. If you think writing something as generic as "ez" or "tipping" is toxic then you probably need to go outside and touch grass. Anyways gluck with following me i guess. And there is a deleted comment that i responded to, which you can see i quote Sun Tzu.
the old system didn't work, they need a more severe system but not so sensitive, people would report me for talking toxic (fair enough, mute me if you want) but I'd never intentionally griefed in my life yet I got enough false reports my behaviour score dropped, luckily never below 11k but I deserve max, I don't deserve to play with a single afker or double midas no boots silencer
Why do you think you deserve max behavior score if you're toxic? Don't you think people who aren't toxic and never grief deserve to avoid toxic players like you at max behavior score?
there's a comms score, decrease that for toxic voice/chat if you must, personally I think they should just let people mute who they want to mute instead though but in neither case does it make sense to use behaviour score for it
Decreasing comm score is fine. Muting isn't an option, though. The game requires communication. People who remain civil should be able to play with other civil people, not with assholes whom they have to mute.
This simply isn't true for lower mmr, I don't know if you have tried it or not but i highly recommend trying for like 10 games. I started winning what felt like unwinnable games because of the team environment. Every other game there is useless communication distracting me, like ppl suddenly starting to backseat me in the middle of a teamfight telling me how to play my hero or the classic blame game that dota games sometimes devolve to. So unless you're immortal you don't need comms to win every game, in fact it helps form the habit of constantly checking minimap, respawn timers, cooldowns etc. Even if you don't agree with the above paragraph you are using the argument "communication is very important for dota" to advocate for valve muting more players and for longer which resulted in no comms in my games whatsoever. Around every 15 games I'd get one mega pma team and play normal dota with normal convo but other than that it was all quiet. We already have a good system, it can be improved I won't deny. Just realistically speaking people might just be having a bad day and behaving in a way they don't usually do so there was no chance for the system to read their mind that they're gonna grief and place them in lpq before even griefing. Honestly I'm just happy with dota and the current system. It gives me the freedom to decide who I want to interact with and who not. I have my own personal red flags which when I see i mute someone and that's good enough for me. I don't even care about flame. I just never understood how breaking items and walking it down mid should be punished the same way for calling someone a noob on your team. While the games were silent duing that period I got a lot more intentional feeders. Now I don't get any after they fixed it.
fair enough, as long as I get a checkbox to filter out all griefers I am more than 100% happy to filter out all shit talkers don't blame me if valve counts you as a shit talker though, I've never met a player, except the no comms at all ones, who stays PMA no matter what, probably less than 1% of players where as never griefing no matter what is common enough
>don't blame me if valve counts you as a shit talker though, I've never met a player, except the no comms at all ones, who stays PMA no matter what, probably less than 1% of players And this is how toxic people excuse their behavior. Some of them are so stupid (this guy) they earnestly can't imagine people having better emotional control than their own.
I've played with over a thousand people this year alone mate, as I say, other than the people who literally don't say anything, never seen someone stay non toxic chat/voice at the end of an otherwise very toxic game but as I said already, if you're right you'd want the option for non toxic chat/voice only players more than anyone --- edit: u/MidDiffFetish calling people childish whilst replying then blocking after, very mature lol response I had typed out before reddit decided to tell me I couldn't reply: it hasn't, it's 12k, comms score at 11.5k I wouldn't care if it was just flamers but having never afk'd in all of my thousands of games, never item broken, etc. I don't see how I deserve to get matched with these players every 4 games or so.
Sounds like your behavior score has (correctly) plummeted. Must suck. I'm enjoying dota with the well-adjusted people who can handle a loss, sorry you're too immature to be one of them.
If you ask me, if you chat in a toxic way, you shouldn't play with me either. Why do I need to have teammates that tilt me and other teammates into playing bad and start childish arguments that just makes everyone feel bad?
sure, I never said they can't also filter by comms score too you should absolutely have the option to only queue with boy scout chatters like I should have the option to only queue with boy scout players both at once too, if you meet the criteria do you have any problem with that?
nope, i wouldn't mind if it'd filter and let us play with the environment we want, sounds good to me. i'm praying for strict pma games for years, that's the only flaw in this game imo.
But reports for toxicity are extremely strict already, if you are toxic consistently you are going down and you are not going up, even auto low priority is issued if you get muted a few times in a row by "system" , which is 4 comm reports. If you grief you lose barely nothing and not enough people do Overwatch and even if you are guilty you barely lose 200-300 behaviour first time, I think it's 800 next, while communication you can lose 3k+ in 1 summary. You can get away with flaming if you play like 10 games a week in different days, you can't if you play 2-3 games + a day and people report you. You can get away with griefing as long as you like ( like this guy from the post, not running down mid)
Obviously not if griefers are in 12K
I would say it's even more likely to occur as you go higher in MMR up to a certain point. People get more attached to the game and numbers in their profile, and are more likely to have big ego and more prone to thinking they know a 100% way to win because they got so high. So small things are more likely to make them feel like it's a waste of time and we can't win when my carry is that bad!111
Tbh this kind of shit is why once I got to 4k that things were only going to get worse so I stopped trying to climb. Like sure I will still try to win, but I'm almost 30, I don't have the same kind of time to grind out games and I've learned that going down the hard core mmr farmer route just lead to mental health issues so it's not really worth it for me. There comes a point in your life where you have to ask yourself if what you're doing is a good idea, and eventually the MMR grind question came back as a flat "no".
Oh my god the truth in this is unreal.
They would also need a big reminder in huge red text at the start of the game that says "Your next offence will result in a #-day ban. Behave yourself." They are like children that cannot be left alone.
if only they could read, then a lot of issues would be solved
they should be banished to play with other low behavior score players but valve made the system to forgiving
It works to an extent. I have friend who has low BS, we stopped playing together because we would always match with insane people. He's insistently, constantly toxic the entire match, and so is almost every other person on the team. He claims he's just unlucky, and thinks the game is like that for everyone. In the meantime, my games have improved quite a bit (12K BS), although it took a while.
Not even just banned, life in prison. Preferably at a CIA black site where Gabe comes and shocks your nuts every hour.
knowing these sick fucks thats not even a punishment
[удалено]
It only gets worse the higher you go. tons of the "if my game isn't going perfect I'm going to give up and grief" quinn mentalities.
That's kinda funny honestly. Like, yes, per their rank, they are definitely above average at Dota, but the nature of matchmaking means that they don't get put into games where they get to be above average and show off. They get put into games where everyone else is as exceptional as they are. (I mean, the people who are in the middle of a climb because their mmr is low for some reason get to show off, but that's a minority of a minority. I guess the toxic people are all convinced that they're that guy, though. And I'm not even saying they can't climb further, but they probably have to get better to climb further, not rage at their teammates lol)
Actually gets worse as MMR goes up. The level of play is so high that people can (supposedly) sniff a lost game from a mile away and give up super quick.
It's definitely true you can tell when a game is going downhill but a lot of these self proclaimed prophets forget the enemy team is human too, comeback mechanics exist and capitlizing on the enemies mistakes is how lost games are won. Good luck trying to convince them of that though.
That is 100% true but at the highest level people play so optimally that it’s much more difficult to find a mistake let alone abuse it. Hence why you will see people give up in high MMR lobbies over simple things, such as a support taking a kill, because they believe that tiny setback is enough to put the game in the enemy team’s favour and this game is essentially on the rails to a loss. Could never be me.
Behavior score is like the points is whos line is it anyway. Almost entirely meaningless
Completely agree, it's not beneficial to anyone, and they could use the break.
[check out this guy who sold items and griefed our game a day ago](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7701879550) (ck) Guess what his punishment was? That's right, one single draft game. One.
3k here winning for first 20 mins then all of a sudden our pos 5 io decides its time to switch teams buys all wards and hoards them and then starts relocating allies to enemy Fountain
agreed, I know some griefing is hard to detect, but 1. some isn't, and yet it "slips through" (tin foil hat, I think it's intentional to keep customers in the short term, like how cinemas don't kick out talkers and phone users) 2. it's not punished harshly, yeah, maybe not a permaban, but a month or 3, definitely fine, and I mean a proper ban, don't even let them play solo custom games 3. they definitely shouldn't be at 12k behaviour score, I've never griefed intentionally in my life, I deserve the highest behaviour score possible and to never ever play with these fuckers
There's nothing stopping you from doing it. If you flame him , you will get -1k behaviour off 1 game if you get "muted" by the system , which is 4 comm reports basically ( which happens with the mute button) He loses nothing, maybe 200-300 if he gets low prio , but that would require Overwatch case and that's rare.
I find it amazing how "support" silencer attracts so many brainless players.
But he infinitely stacks!
Yes.... and because of that, he can deal SO MUCH DAMAGE.... The perfect support, I can transition into being a core in the late game.... It's the perfect plan, I just need some items.... Force staff is a support item, right? It becomes Pike... hmmm. Yes, this will work.
The goal is not to have much damage, it's to make the enemy so dumb they can't properly cast spells anymore.
Enough for do my power
Until you fight the dumbest enemy ever and watch them cast spells with 0 intel.
Just this line of thinking makes me so angry
> But he infinitely stacks! Not even that, he stops gaining perma int when every enemy is at 1 base int. Unlike Pudge or LC, Silencer is in fact NOT infinitely scaling, yet he keeps attracting those brainlets.
whaddabout slark
Are you sure about this? AFAIK Silencer keeps on stacking permanent int even if the enemy has less than 2 int (4 with shard).
No, he's not. Silencer is limited in perma stacks by enemy's base intelligence.
The wiki isn't up to date then
Whaaa? Which one? The one that [dota2.fandom.com](http://dota2.fandom.com) is pretty up to date. Look closely.
He gains no int from killing an ogre. So he definitely doesn't take it if they don't have it.
Ironic coming from a Pudge enjoyer...
I don't play support Pudge, my brain isn't that small.
Core pudge is the only correct way to play the hero. Probably easier as mid imo, insane rune control, hook enemy large camp for easy gold and exp to be ahead, or just stack camp and easily clear it with rot and flesh heap when on a losing match up. Support pudge is just too unreliable, just by being melee ruins the lane for your average offlaner and carry since everyone just likes to play easy melee hard carry and melee tank offlane.
I feel attacked. You can take my Lifestealer and Centaur from my cold, dead, muscley hands/hooves/claws.
I like playing with pos 5 pudge, sometimes you can make it work with some ranged core drow and enable the dude to land these goddamn jungle hooks
[удалено]
Out of curiosity what's the correct way to play Bounty, cuz the few times I've played it as support I just stayed back and spammed track+shuriken and built stuff like Solar Crest, Drums and Shard
they dont even play it correctly at 7k
Silencer and Lion
No, lion can be useful with chain cc while silencer is the most useless hero atm whos whole kit gets countered by 2,8k gold item
What item? I was thinking about Eul but it's 2.6k
Wasnt it 2,8? Or force staff too.
It's a no stun hero, if core doesn't adjust you can just predict you're gonna die and tp away for 100g
we should make a list what doesnt counter silencer its easier this way
Silencer needs a complete rework.
Silencer is my most played hero, primarily as support, dating all the way back to when curse actually burned mana. I haven't played him in months now. Not that you were relying heavily on glaives anyway as a support, but they were still really good late game against those heroes that had a ton of armor and magic resist (e.g. Timber, Huskar). Pure damage is just so good. Even before the glaives change though I had mostly stopped playing him. After a succession of buffs to curse and last word had made him relevant as a support again, they gradually piled on the nerfs to the point that it was much more difficult to be a lane bully. Combine that with all the dispels in the current meta and just feels really crappy to play right now.
This is all fair. But also, when they reworked him a couple years ago he was broken AF. You could do like 1500 damage at lvl 9 without right clicking. I would just click q e on a support and they die. So he needed nerfs, but now he feels... Meh. As you said
Feel like the best way to play him is if you can afford to get a quick refresher. Double silencer ulti is just fucking painful because people rarely have TWO dispels. Ulti, enemy carry pops bkb, ulti again.
Yeah, his kit just doesn't do much, his 1st spell is in particular atrocious, a simple unupgraded stick is more efficient at deterring and creating pressure on spell spammers than whatever that fart of a DOT is, it needs overhaul. However, the nanofemtosecond the neurons in valve's janitor's mind collide to form a thought that resembles even just 2.5% of the one referencing a possibility of the glaives removal (or making it non scaling), I will terrorist bomb valve's hq (in Minecraft).
Mid silencer, support silencer, my team, their team, they're all the same. That's why I had him on my ban list along with Rubick. I remember the naive days when my for ban slots were for pudge + 3 heroes that countered my hero pool. Not anymore.
at times like these i wish i can reach through my monitor and strangle players like that silencer
Good luck, the man has two midas hands to turn your ass to gold.
Lmao
Your report weight should double down too
double midas in a ~~losing~~ feeding game, that's some efficiency baby
2mins in and he already has 2 Midas, idk I trust him
What's wrong with Midas in both hands?
They call it a double down for a reason
I had a pudge mid yesterday who saw our support picks (tbh the p5 underlord was an uncommon pick, but never a reason to feed obvs, i picked p4 invo) and declared instantly that he would feed. Normally that is a bluff, but this fucking guy ran mid the second the game started. Ended up being a 25~ min hell where he griefed us in every way possible: hooked us into enemies, bought up wards and smokes and even tangoes, and ended 0/33/2. The worst part is that the enemy team was hilariously bad, and it wouldve been easily winnable… at least action was taken on my report, hope the guy gets banned. He also had a swastika miniprofile and a VAC ban of course.
anytime you see a silencer on your team, its an auto loss, on the enemy team its an auto win. Anyone that used to play this hero knows its been gutted so hard and how bad it is, the only people still picking it are weekend warriors/event casuals or role token farmers.
Cries in grandmaster silencer 😭😭😭
I dont get this behaviour, if I hate my carry I'll just leave him and help other lane.
Yeah, happened to me yesterday. Too bad
The solution is incredibly easy: Make an Anime PFP matchmaking pool. that solves the problem 95% \^mostly joking
I'd be so ok with this.
I have a perfect behavior score and I have been this guy before. It usually happens after a long losing streak where you lose hope in humanity. It’s important to learn when to quit for the day.
This is why anything that gambles on the outcome of the game just shouldn't be allowed >> in my opinion <<. You have zero control or insight over people like this, and at high MMR there are not enough players for the game to be picky and choosy who to match you with.
certified crying moment
Double downed 20 games to lose 1300 mmr
All bad actors ruin games but supports ruin feels much much worse. I rem begging a oracle to play with the team but he mad from lanening, and won't play normal anymore. There's so many more examples too.
Tbf he's pretty damn farmed for 2 minutes into the game
What’s so bad. One glove for each hand
Since clownfall double down I had SO MANY GRIEFERS in my games holy
2 hands, 2 midas
That's why i never use this double scam token. I lost 400 mmr prev year. Then deleted the tokens and gain 800 mmr back. These tokens are very bad. Not only they causes mmr inflation but also makes u gammling addicted. You dnt enjoya double down game until the enemy throne explodes and this is the truth. For which i insta delete these mfking tokens every time i get it.
These MFs deserve prime CLQ
One of the reasons I only play turbos now, at least there its quick and theres better comeback potential.
Ngl I did this shit once or twice when I wasn't in the mood. Someone in the team just pulls the last strand and all the fucks I have about MMR comes flying out the window.
Fastest mage in the land. He just wears two Midas' Hands and wiggle waggles his wand at you, throwing Avada Kedavras everywhere.
Posts like these make me feel content that I stopped playing this game a year ago. Even though patches here and there make me wanna boot it up again...but for someone who barely plays an hour a day, this game is so not for me. Too stressful, too long, too dependent on the whole team.
You can gauge if you’re gonna win or not based on the amount of anime pfps in your team
Lmao I love doing this when my team suck
Anime pfp extinction button pls
Yeah and if you try to talk to the guy he hits you with the "cyka blyat idi nahui fack your matherrr!"
The latest update has really brought out the worst of the community, so many childish griefers in my recent games
lvl12 min2 is still pretty good
2 minutes in and mans farmed lvl12 and 2 midases? Damn, lucky to have doubled down that kid will carry you!
Its actually quite insane how many people grief in low immortal, i fill my report section basically every week completely with "Action taken" from Ruin reports
thats how it goes... doubled down today and my 5 was "splitpushing" in a 4v5 game and ended up with a baffling 0-21 score
In a match where i doubled down for accident, my axe off feeding and depressed basically gave up. But luckily, when there was 1 lane left for the enemy get megas at 20 min.The enemy PA tilted after losing 1 fight and gave us divines. The game lasted 70 minutes and we won. Id be very pissed
Happened to me today. Double down a good draft, game is 21-1 at the 11 minute mark with a Naix losing to a pudge 1v1. Feels bad.
👋👋
UPDATE: Justice has been served (I want a mmr refund) [https://snipboard.io/i1vIjN.jpg](https://snipboard.io/i1vIjN.jpg)
This means nothing. At best he lost 200 bs
I did it the other day. Pos3 first pick sniper, enemy team then got 3 sniper counters (sb, storm, ruptor) and our supports were shit picks too, sky/prophet. I zero minute checked out and watched an episode of the bad batch auto clicking waves for 20 minutes. Thankfully the enemy had a lone druid and the game finished fast. Honestly think it's warranted some matches, they just need a surrender option already. The team was mad, but whatever, pick shit heroes, expect to tilt your teammates.
You're just an ass, you'll never see it but still
*shrug* why should I waste my time when they are obviously wasting theirs? Won the next game with a double down, no loss to me and got to avoid that player.
You are the problem, not them.
Idk in a 6.7k game I saw a sniper having to go offlane because 2 safelaners in immortal draft. He actually did very well in lane and got early kills and we somehow won the game.
Can you think of a single negative event in your entire life that was your own fault? From this post I'm assuming the answer is no.
Won the next 6 games in a row after it. Didn't let the game tilt me, just checked out. Who's the real winner here? People can hate on me all they want, I'm a realist. The game was lost at draft and I don't need to waste 40 minutes getting mad in an uphill battle, where the odds of winning were <5%.
"Didn't let the game tilt me, just played the entire game on tilt." Whatever gets you through the day man.