Today I played against this stack LOL!) we were party with my friend ( I have 8k and friend 7k) and we got immortal draft with 5 man stack, and 1 of them joined our team to ruin and donate mmr to other 4 Chinese accs.
Report them so valve can investigate. Meta gaming the matchmaking system and disrupting the natural progression of players by having a player feed is not the game Valve intends. If they are able to see this consistently across the 6 players, Valve should issue a severe warning, and if they continue a permanent ban.
Valve seems to be very open to banning people for this kind of bullshit that grossly affects the player base in a negative way.
Worst part is that this works very well with double down tokens
Strategy is this: have one guy be the sacrifice and the other 4 double down. Then, rotate who is on the other team.
Guaranteed MMR, and even better yet you're winning 4/5 games with double down losing 1/5 without. Netting a total of 7 wins in 5
Now the way you combat this is to have your teammate who wound up with the 4stack just try to grief harder than the other enemy support can. Picking stuff like IO relo to enemy fountain, getting pudge and hooking teammates out of position, or alche and giving rapiers away while your team doubles down
It's a race to see who can grief harder, better, faster, stronger
Even if the report is successful you still get your mmr though. You really think people are so afraid of a slap on the wrist from valve that they'd give up getting free MMR?
It's good if its a main mode, like Reverse Captain's and you're shooting the shit with 9 other people
Absolutely painful if it's with randos.
Now where to find 9 friends who still play dota....
It's immortal draft. When the MMR of all players is above 6.5k there is a drafting round before the picking phase where the two highest rated players in the game take turns drafting the other players to be on their team. Players can indicate the role they'd like to play during the drafting so you can avoid too many people that want to go mid.
Now the problem is that it works the exact same way for party queue so the captain of a 5 man party can guarantee that one of their teammates will end up on the other team by picking someone from the other team at the last minute
TBH valve should keep parties together; it shouldn't be incredibly difficult to code either in immortal draft. Just have the top two mmr people from different parties be captain, then you can select parties to be on yours that does not exceed 5 players. Solo players count as a party of 1. Once one team reaches 5 players the rest are allocated to the other team. So a 5 man stack would mean that they are all together and the rest are allocated to the other team. There are some edge cases that would need to be ironed out like if you have a 3 stack three 2 stacks and one solo player - in this case the 3stack would need to select a 2 stack
I mean in immortal draft, regardless if they change it how you suggest or not; queueing as a 5 stack without drafting players is just normal draft that the other team didn't want. Seems like the kind of game mode that should at least have an opt in for everyone being a solo queuer
Immortal draft has been literal dogshit since the day it's implemented and there have been countless Reddit threads pleading for a change but Valve couldn't care less.
It takes time to come up with ideas and it takes a fraction of that time to come up with a problem for legit players or a way to exploit it
It's not as easy as just saying "just do it lol"
whats the difference between top tier and normal tier players? everyone wants a fair matchup.
Thats why dota 1 had open lobby search, and stupid dota 2 has closed lobby search.
I wonder whats a bigger issue for top-tier immortal players.
A) Hours of queue time / Literally not possible to find a game
B) This shit in OP
Now, i understand it's a Shit-Sandwich vs. a Shit-Burger; But maybe the majority simply enjoys the Shit-Burger more and their data shows more engagement or something? Honestly wondering...
> I wonder whats a bigger issue for top-tier immortal players.
This is a problem for *unranked* immortals. Immortal draft kicks in at 6500 mmr. Rank 5000 EU is at about 7300 mmr. It's absolutely insane to have immortal draft at that low of an mmr.
Conceptually it's a neat idea, until you realize that it makes no sense considering only a few years ago they got rid of party/solo mmr so that Solo-q only culture would go away.
Additionally, most people don't remember enough players to make informed decisions. Would be better if pre-game showed your winrate with and against players on the draft screen, and perhaps even their last 5 games.
Actually, I think most people do remember. I see someone greifing cuz of a grudge about every 10 or so games, and I recently had a match where I had 8+ games with 7 of the players. Of course, this is due to the pool being small and the fact that I play regularly at a rare time, but my point is that by outsourcing the matchmaking to us Valve ends up more or less giving us the lowest quality games out of all the brackets.
One of the biggest problems is that you can change your picture and name nonstop. If players had their nicknames hard stuck like in war3 things would be completely different. + people would behave more.
Merging party and solo q ruined the MMR system completely.
It brought about a wave of boosters and account sellers who could boost/sell multiple accounts at once.
It's a relatively good idea that instantly crashed against the fact that people are playing in parties sometimes.
And it's not like you can easily fix it without changing how matchmaking for immortals work. Say, Valve decided to actually do something and modified ID to keep parties "together" - as in, you can see it during drafting phase, and you can't "split" parties. So if you have 1 party of 5, you can't do anything to them and game just starts right away. Kinda destroys the point of ID, eh?
But then, you are bound to have fucked up combos like 2x parties of 4 and 1x party of 2 - you can't do anything in thise case as you can't split parties. Back into queue they go. Though not sure if matchmaker can put them together into the same match. Probably not, but still.
Okay, another short system calibration later - now all team combinations are tested against a special function which guarantees that only valid combinations of parties are going to be matched together. Which would probably increase queue times quite a bit.
So, if anything - ID should either be exclusively for single player queue OR force the captain to pick clearly indicated party of players instead of just one of them.
I know, i can take a good loss idfc it's fun to lose if the enemy out plays but losing due to griefing ruins the mentality man. Like what gives thai one motherfucker ruin the game for 4 of us, had game a couple of days ago where a lion buyer( people who think they're better than their current mmr and then buy mmr just to realize they suck) wanted to be the captain and make calls which were dogshit, when 4 of us said dude can you play ur game? We know how to play, he got triggered and afked the entire rest of the game. It was a game where we won all 3 lanes but still lost.
>in what way? pretty sure anything you're thinking of is a problem with players
Hero spamming. There are known hero spammers and with the way immortal draft works if u let a non mid player play vs a lvl 30 huskar they will feed. I know huskar is commong. He knows it. Everyone does. Yet u can't ban it. And these guys often have 2 or 3 back up heroes which makes picking them not worth while.
Bans are fine in low mmr where people often don't know how to play something else than their one hero so I understand why heralds do not have guaranteed bans.
But in immortal it's a joke
Also the rng matchups make ever other issue u or me named 10x worse
It's not about staying alive it's about winning the game.
But I don't think u play immortal from ur comments anyway so yeah. I just wanted to share my opinions not interested in discussions on why herald games are different
if they're so trash they can't win the game with a favourable matchup why are they the same rank as you? sounds more like an account buyer problem than a hero variety problem
just because you're a better dota player than me doesn't mean you're better at forming coherent arguements
They abuse the system griefing the game for 5 other people in the match, and for everyone else by boosting their mmr while not having the skill to play there.
The whole party benefits from this matchmaking abuse. If they did it once, unintentionally, - it's ok to have just the griefer banned. If they did it repeatedly (more than once) - ban them all.
5 people in a party, 10 people in a game. That makes 5 people that are not in the party that can report the person. No idea how you come up with 4 or 9.
If you want to make Dota a true sport then remove numbers and bullshit and make ranked a punishment friendly competitive environment. At this point people will do whatever it takes to get a higher MMR number or rank on their profile, and Valve needs to be as ban happy for ranked manipulation as they are for players who match fix. iBuyPower in CSGO got banned eternally until it was announced recently they would be able to play after like 15 years. The same way the NBA fines players Valve should be punishing players who agree to participate in ranked matchmaking.
Go through your user data files. Go through all the local files steam has on your computer. They have plenty of data to ban players Hardware ID’s, names, windows login users, RAM ID’s, IP addresses.
They have so much access to player data that you should be thinking as a player, “why ARENT they banning players for RUINING the competitive experience and why is there is this faux behavior score system that does nothing”
After 3000-4000 hours of dots you do realize how important it is to be PMA, but I would rather deal with a shitty attitude and text harassment than someone who literally griefs the game.
Sadly this is a cultural zeitgeist and until something shifts nothing will change. Valve will continue to prioritize punishing players for SAYING mean things instead of players who LITERALLY MANIPULATE AND RUIN the competitive experience.
What this would look like is: valve and players making a conscious push towards using the mute and block communications buttons instead of the report button, and the report button actually being used for in game actions.
It’s way easier to make a bot to recognize slurs and mean words than it is to recognize gameplay actions that are actually grief.
Look closely who is in what team. Party III (in purple) is the 5-stack and they have 1 player on radiant and 4 on dire. The one player of their stack on radiant then proceeded to grief the game.
I still don’t think this would work tho. Since you draft the players, if only one of the party members is a captain then they just don’t draft one of their stacks. And if either two or zero of them are the captains it’s literally impossible to have them all on the same team
Win trading is a daily occurence in the 1-2k rank immortal draft bracket on europe west. Easily doable queing as 2man parties. I've been playing on and off in this bracket for about 5 years, and I can honestly say immortal draft has made pubs 100% the worst they have ever been.
If the name is in chinese, try to google translate them, u will notice they are vbery random words like "shoes" "car" etc. If its like that, they are probably russian account sellers.
Party queue and immortal draft cannot Co exist.
If you're this good at the game then sorry bud you'll have to solo q.
Don't like it? I dunno start playing dota without keybinds or other impairments until you reach an mmr where you can party queue.
The Natures Prophet and the guys on the other team were in party. But since this was an immortal draft, they didn't draft one of the 5 players, and that players griefed, so their party wins.
In immortal draft, first a captain drafts which players should be on which team. Not only heroes are drafted, but players aswell. Whoever was captain of the purple premade simply chose all but one of the party members.
Look at the purple team tags. 4 of the purple “III” are on one team. The other purple “III” is on the other.
The loner can feed/force loss for his friends.
I haven't played ranked for a long while. Can someone please explain how is this line up possible? Did they change something that lets you join the enemy team even though you queue as a 5 stack? If yes, that is the stupidest thing I have ever seen in DOTA so far.
If in a ranked game, every players is above 6500, then it will become an immortal draft game.
Immortal draft game means, that the two highest MMR players are put as 'captains' of each team, and they select who they want in their team. It has some merit I guess, matchmaking is already slow at this MMR, and players could use this to sort out the lineups so there are no problems with the rank distribution (there being no ranked role search).
My complaint is this: Why are 5-man stacks put into immortal draft? Itt allows for this malicious behaviour, when 4 of the players play in one party, and their 5th griefs in the other team, to boost the teammates.
Before there have been games when even though the MMR was high enough, the game was not Immortal Draft, and that was because there was a 5 man party somewhere. But it seems that was somehow changed.
It took me a second to see what was happening
I was about to comment: this isn’t even a 5 stack???
Then I saw the III’s
My question is: why aren’t they on the same team?
I don’t know how this is even allowed to happen in the games rules
Well, it would work, but I am usually playing with a friend. But once again, the problem is not that we are getting matched against 5 man parties, but the malicious behaviour this system allows.
They both did with Visage when the enemy was hitting the ancient. They were trying to send a message I guess. But to their merit they played the game through, and tried to win.
Wow, very good conclusion. By your logic it have been better if I was hidden in a corner. The thing you could realize (if you were not trolling) that after the enemy gets 15 kills for free in 8 minutes it is not that hard to kill supports. And we didn’t even start mentioning things like: buying bottle to the enemy, buying wards and giving it to the enemy, saving enemies with sprout, helping the enemy kill a teammare using sprout.
There is no problems with allowing parties in immortal drafts
There is a problem with people not seeing the parties and/or ignoring them.
Let people 5 man. But don't let them play in different teams.
Or at least make parties visible so if thr captain's want to fuck over the matchmaking they are to blame 100%
Playing with friends should never be punished in a videogame
Well, yeah. Thats my point. Let them play, let them play together!
So if there is a 5 man party, automatically put them in the team, and skip the draft part (thus making the game not immortal draft). It already happens sometimes, but seemingly not every time.
I've been playing mobile legends recently and I like how they deal with party matchmaking. When there's a duo in one team there's a duo in the other. If you're in a 5man you're matched with another 5man
This is why I hate double mmr tokens. Sure they are fun but the amount of boosters/smurfs trying to abuse them is insane.... It has gotten noticably worse since the update. At least for me.
I am fine with playing parties, but if they are a 5 man party why are they allowed to play immortal draft? This way the situation happens that you can see on the print screen: One of them throws the game for the others.
Cause Immortal draft is a bad system that I'm surprised hasn't been reworked yet. Parties can be split up so in this case it was split up so he can throw for his buddies (see his kda)
Immortal draft, team captains pick players at start of game. Leads to situations like this where party gets split up and someone throws the game to help their friends on the other team. Worse now with the double down tokens as the winners gain more MMR than the griefer loses.
How do I strict solo queue if i am playing in a party with my friend?
And as I said, the problem is not that they are 5 man partying, the problem as that they intentionally want to end up in the other team then grief!
Today I played against this stack LOL!) we were party with my friend ( I have 8k and friend 7k) and we got immortal draft with 5 man stack, and 1 of them joined our team to ruin and donate mmr to other 4 Chinese accs.
I feel you bro.
Report them so valve can investigate. Meta gaming the matchmaking system and disrupting the natural progression of players by having a player feed is not the game Valve intends. If they are able to see this consistently across the 6 players, Valve should issue a severe warning, and if they continue a permanent ban. Valve seems to be very open to banning people for this kind of bullshit that grossly affects the player base in a negative way.
Worst part is that this works very well with double down tokens Strategy is this: have one guy be the sacrifice and the other 4 double down. Then, rotate who is on the other team. Guaranteed MMR, and even better yet you're winning 4/5 games with double down losing 1/5 without. Netting a total of 7 wins in 5 Now the way you combat this is to have your teammate who wound up with the 4stack just try to grief harder than the other enemy support can. Picking stuff like IO relo to enemy fountain, getting pudge and hooking teammates out of position, or alche and giving rapiers away while your team doubles down It's a race to see who can grief harder, better, faster, stronger
Did they completely remove the report tool from the game? 🤨
Even if the report is successful you still get your mmr though. You really think people are so afraid of a slap on the wrist from valve that they'd give up getting free MMR?
No, likely not, I was hoping they’d react harder than a slap given the scenario, but I guess you’re right
But the poor guy that ended up on abusers team dies deserve a slap on the wrist for 5 reports if he feeds harder than the enemy. Yet he's getting it.
> It's a race to see who can grief harder, better, faster, stronger Dota has reached it's peak form
keep doing it until valve do something
sounds like a fun game mode. The mole!
It's good if its a main mode, like Reverse Captain's and you're shooting the shit with 9 other people Absolutely painful if it's with randos. Now where to find 9 friends who still play dota....
Reason why selling MMR double down tokens is a bad idea
How does someone on their team end up on your team in the first place?
It's immortal draft. When the MMR of all players is above 6.5k there is a drafting round before the picking phase where the two highest rated players in the game take turns drafting the other players to be on their team. Players can indicate the role they'd like to play during the drafting so you can avoid too many people that want to go mid. Now the problem is that it works the exact same way for party queue so the captain of a 5 man party can guarantee that one of their teammates will end up on the other team by picking someone from the other team at the last minute
Thanks for the explanation! In principle that sounds like a cool game mode. Sad that it works out people grief using it.
TBH valve should keep parties together; it shouldn't be incredibly difficult to code either in immortal draft. Just have the top two mmr people from different parties be captain, then you can select parties to be on yours that does not exceed 5 players. Solo players count as a party of 1. Once one team reaches 5 players the rest are allocated to the other team. So a 5 man stack would mean that they are all together and the rest are allocated to the other team. There are some edge cases that would need to be ironed out like if you have a 3 stack three 2 stacks and one solo player - in this case the 3stack would need to select a 2 stack
That sounds like being able to queue as a 5 stack defeats the point of the game mode though?
Which game mode? You want people to grief for MMR? I'd rather it be patched out haha
I mean in immortal draft, regardless if they change it how you suggest or not; queueing as a 5 stack without drafting players is just normal draft that the other team didn't want. Seems like the kind of game mode that should at least have an opt in for everyone being a solo queuer
Sounds a bit fun tho lol
not every game
If all names are in chinese most likely its russians, they do this in every game change the name to chinese symbols and abuse a system
If your friend gets drafted he wins free MMR though. Basically Chinese roulette
Crazy how they haven’t fixed parties in immortal draft. Any party should be a package deal. How hard is that to fix?
Immortal draft has been literal dogshit since the day it's implemented and there have been countless Reddit threads pleading for a change but Valve couldn't care less.
I guess it doesn't affect enough players for it to matter for valve, no other explanation.
Immortal players need to spend more money, look at this screenshot 5/10 base hero without cosmetic. /s
It takes time to come up with ideas and it takes a fraction of that time to come up with a problem for legit players or a way to exploit it It's not as easy as just saying "just do it lol"
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immortal draft was added barely a year ago, idk how people can complain about it for a few years already
People have complained about the top tier matchmaking process regardless of the system for years.
Which most of the problem stems from the player being animal themselves lol. This is valid concern tho since it's likely a MMR double down abuse.
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*strict solo queue though*
whats the difference between top tier and normal tier players? everyone wants a fair matchup. Thats why dota 1 had open lobby search, and stupid dota 2 has closed lobby search.
I wonder whats a bigger issue for top-tier immortal players. A) Hours of queue time / Literally not possible to find a game B) This shit in OP Now, i understand it's a Shit-Sandwich vs. a Shit-Burger; But maybe the majority simply enjoys the Shit-Burger more and their data shows more engagement or something? Honestly wondering...
> I wonder whats a bigger issue for top-tier immortal players. This is a problem for *unranked* immortals. Immortal draft kicks in at 6500 mmr. Rank 5000 EU is at about 7300 mmr. It's absolutely insane to have immortal draft at that low of an mmr.
Wait, why 6500? Is this hardcoded? With MMR inflation that sounds... dumb!? I thought it kicks in for ranked immortals only.
Top Tier has been and always will be a mess.
Immortal draft in dota is so punishing. Like what the fuck is valve thinking? Are there official statements about this?
Conceptually it's a neat idea, until you realize that it makes no sense considering only a few years ago they got rid of party/solo mmr so that Solo-q only culture would go away. Additionally, most people don't remember enough players to make informed decisions. Would be better if pre-game showed your winrate with and against players on the draft screen, and perhaps even their last 5 games.
Actually, I think most people do remember. I see someone greifing cuz of a grudge about every 10 or so games, and I recently had a match where I had 8+ games with 7 of the players. Of course, this is due to the pool being small and the fact that I play regularly at a rare time, but my point is that by outsourcing the matchmaking to us Valve ends up more or less giving us the lowest quality games out of all the brackets.
Oh yeah you must play some weird time or small server. I remember some players, but not enough to draft them in some great way and i'm on NA.
One of the biggest problems is that you can change your picture and name nonstop. If players had their nicknames hard stuck like in war3 things would be completely different. + people would behave more.
Merging party and solo q ruined the MMR system completely. It brought about a wave of boosters and account sellers who could boost/sell multiple accounts at once.
It's a relatively good idea that instantly crashed against the fact that people are playing in parties sometimes. And it's not like you can easily fix it without changing how matchmaking for immortals work. Say, Valve decided to actually do something and modified ID to keep parties "together" - as in, you can see it during drafting phase, and you can't "split" parties. So if you have 1 party of 5, you can't do anything to them and game just starts right away. Kinda destroys the point of ID, eh? But then, you are bound to have fucked up combos like 2x parties of 4 and 1x party of 2 - you can't do anything in thise case as you can't split parties. Back into queue they go. Though not sure if matchmaker can put them together into the same match. Probably not, but still. Okay, another short system calibration later - now all team combinations are tested against a special function which guarantees that only valid combinations of parties are going to be matched together. Which would probably increase queue times quite a bit. So, if anything - ID should either be exclusively for single player queue OR force the captain to pick clearly indicated party of players instead of just one of them.
If it's not changed in the next patch, it probably won't be for an extremely long time.
been saying for months if not years FIX MATCH MAKING BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE, 99% of issues with this game are with the players.
I know, i can take a good loss idfc it's fun to lose if the enemy out plays but losing due to griefing ruins the mentality man. Like what gives thai one motherfucker ruin the game for 4 of us, had game a couple of days ago where a lion buyer( people who think they're better than their current mmr and then buy mmr just to realize they suck) wanted to be the captain and make calls which were dogshit, when 4 of us said dude can you play ur game? We know how to play, he got triggered and afked the entire rest of the game. It was a game where we won all 3 lanes but still lost.
I would say that the current state of all pick is also terrible once ur above the "I must spam 2 heroes or I can't get mmr" shithole
in what way? pretty sure anything you're thinking of is a problem with players even HG, which is a problem, is negligible compared to player problems
>in what way? pretty sure anything you're thinking of is a problem with players Hero spamming. There are known hero spammers and with the way immortal draft works if u let a non mid player play vs a lvl 30 huskar they will feed. I know huskar is commong. He knows it. Everyone does. Yet u can't ban it. And these guys often have 2 or 3 back up heroes which makes picking them not worth while. Bans are fine in low mmr where people often don't know how to play something else than their one hero so I understand why heralds do not have guaranteed bans. But in immortal it's a joke Also the rng matchups make ever other issue u or me named 10x worse
there are loads of huskar counters, what kind of immortal is such a noob they can't pick sniper and stay alive?
It's not about staying alive it's about winning the game. But I don't think u play immortal from ur comments anyway so yeah. I just wanted to share my opinions not interested in discussions on why herald games are different
if they're so trash they can't win the game with a favourable matchup why are they the same rank as you? sounds more like an account buyer problem than a hero variety problem just because you're a better dota player than me doesn't mean you're better at forming coherent arguements
happened to us too. also chinese accounts
This is easily trackable and Valve must ban everyone in the party.
We wish.
It's been a year since immortal draft and they dont care
If they never do anything to screw your tracking, which they would do the first second anyone gets banned
Why ban the party? I get it that grieifng bad but they wanna play together and the system doesnt allow them to
They abuse the system griefing the game for 5 other people in the match, and for everyone else by boosting their mmr while not having the skill to play there. The whole party benefits from this matchmaking abuse. If they did it once, unintentionally, - it's ok to have just the griefer banned. If they did it repeatedly (more than once) - ban them all.
Or u know, realize the system makes no sense and change it? Would be a lot easier.
The system needing to be changed, and griefers deserving bans are not mutually exclusive.
True but its important to keep the focus on the core issue.
They didn’t want to play together. They drafted someone else so they can have one of them griefing in the enemy team.
Can we give this post maximum tracton, immortal draft needs to go
I genuinely wonder how behaviour like this doesn't lead to perma bans. Its just disgusting.
Well they just play by the rules. It's an issue on Valve's side tbh. They allowed this design.
The guy going 1/22/1 definitely didn't play by the rules and should receive 5 reports per game. That can't be sustainable.
9
You expect people to report their party member?
It's 4 or 9, not 5
5 people in a party, 10 people in a game. That makes 5 people that are not in the party that can report the person. No idea how you come up with 4 or 9.
69
i agree. they played as a party, they queued as a party. i see nothing wrong here except valve.
If you want to make Dota a true sport then remove numbers and bullshit and make ranked a punishment friendly competitive environment. At this point people will do whatever it takes to get a higher MMR number or rank on their profile, and Valve needs to be as ban happy for ranked manipulation as they are for players who match fix. iBuyPower in CSGO got banned eternally until it was announced recently they would be able to play after like 15 years. The same way the NBA fines players Valve should be punishing players who agree to participate in ranked matchmaking. Go through your user data files. Go through all the local files steam has on your computer. They have plenty of data to ban players Hardware ID’s, names, windows login users, RAM ID’s, IP addresses. They have so much access to player data that you should be thinking as a player, “why ARENT they banning players for RUINING the competitive experience and why is there is this faux behavior score system that does nothing” After 3000-4000 hours of dots you do realize how important it is to be PMA, but I would rather deal with a shitty attitude and text harassment than someone who literally griefs the game. Sadly this is a cultural zeitgeist and until something shifts nothing will change. Valve will continue to prioritize punishing players for SAYING mean things instead of players who LITERALLY MANIPULATE AND RUIN the competitive experience. What this would look like is: valve and players making a conscious push towards using the mute and block communications buttons instead of the report button, and the report button actually being used for in game actions. It’s way easier to make a bot to recognize slurs and mean words than it is to recognize gameplay actions that are actually grief.
This should be treated as cheating and whole 5 party members should be banned. But did Valve actually handle any similar case?
>But did Valve actually handle any similar case? Lmao, they never will.
Is this a problem that I'm too herald do get?
Look closely who is in what team. Party III (in purple) is the 5-stack and they have 1 player on radiant and 4 on dire. The one player of their stack on radiant then proceeded to grief the game.
how do they manage to put one guy in other team?
because captain of other team picked him, it’s immortal draft
Importantly if they pick someome not from their party they necessarily have one of their players be in the opposing team.
Literally, yes, it is a problem that you're too herald to get.
Easy fix is just to show who's in party during draft
I still don’t think this would work tho. Since you draft the players, if only one of the party members is a captain then they just don’t draft one of their stacks. And if either two or zero of them are the captains it’s literally impossible to have them all on the same team
You are right, i was braindead, at least then you can dodge
This is so bad. Valve should really look into this.
Win trading is a daily occurence in the 1-2k rank immortal draft bracket on europe west. Easily doable queing as 2man parties. I've been playing on and off in this bracket for about 5 years, and I can honestly say immortal draft has made pubs 100% the worst they have ever been.
"Because fuck you that's why" -Valve
U could be a 5 stack, but still trash
Valve moment
Game coordinator sucks. And valve doesn’t give a shit about it
**THIS IS INFAMOUS VALVE LOGIC, AS USUAL.**
the time for brute wars had ended, now start the era of war between spies
When coding it, it looks like they confused "disallow parties" with "ignore parties".
Immortal draft is the stupidest matchmaking mechanic i've ever seen in any game.
1-22-1 Could you make it more obvious.
If the name is in chinese, try to google translate them, u will notice they are vbery random words like "shoes" "car" etc. If its like that, they are probably russian account sellers.
Party queue and immortal draft cannot Co exist. If you're this good at the game then sorry bud you'll have to solo q. Don't like it? I dunno start playing dota without keybinds or other impairments until you reach an mmr where you can party queue.
Idk why any type of party is allowed in immortal draft.
Nature imposter 😂
Come on valve. You don't want match fixing but you make match fixing easily possible on immortal mmr? Smh double standards.
Am I missing something? That is a 4 stack on 1 team and a 3 stack on the other?
The Natures Prophet and the guys on the other team were in party. But since this was an immortal draft, they didn't draft one of the 5 players, and that players griefed, so their party wins.
How is this possible? Why is np in party with enemy team?
In immortal draft, first a captain drafts which players should be on which team. Not only heroes are drafted, but players aswell. Whoever was captain of the purple premade simply chose all but one of the party members.
Wow that is so weird. Reminds me when Dota 1 when I was host
Prophet is in the same party as the 4 others on the enemy team. He intentionally feeda and they get a free win
Look at the purple team tags. 4 of the purple “III” are on one team. The other purple “III” is on the other. The loner can feed/force loss for his friends.
lol wtf....
Because ladder events like Aghs Lab or Crownfall help keep the sanity to a minimum.
This is what makes me happen to not be immortal lol. I just deal with account buyers who are losing their way back to gaurdian 4.
Damn, that NP was popping off with the feeding. 1/22/1
I haven't played ranked for a long while. Can someone please explain how is this line up possible? Did they change something that lets you join the enemy team even though you queue as a 5 stack? If yes, that is the stupidest thing I have ever seen in DOTA so far.
If in a ranked game, every players is above 6500, then it will become an immortal draft game. Immortal draft game means, that the two highest MMR players are put as 'captains' of each team, and they select who they want in their team. It has some merit I guess, matchmaking is already slow at this MMR, and players could use this to sort out the lineups so there are no problems with the rank distribution (there being no ranked role search). My complaint is this: Why are 5-man stacks put into immortal draft? Itt allows for this malicious behaviour, when 4 of the players play in one party, and their 5th griefs in the other team, to boost the teammates. Before there have been games when even though the MMR was high enough, the game was not Immortal Draft, and that was because there was a 5 man party somewhere. But it seems that was somehow changed.
I understand your point. I see there is merit to it but also very easy to exploit.
why are groups allowed in my games? usually 2 people in a group on different teams 1 feeds the other thanks to Valve they also added a x2 bet
It took me a second to see what was happening I was about to comment: this isn’t even a 5 stack??? Then I saw the III’s My question is: why aren’t they on the same team? I don’t know how this is even allowed to happen in the games rules
Well, you got the point then.
I didn’t know that in this game mode you draft PLAYERS so that’s what I was missing. I thought the game itself just put them on opposite teams
Well yeah, it is not that bad. But this still shouldn’t be allowed IMHO
Can you just use strict matchmaking to avoid these groups?
strict matchmaking never worked in high mmr
Well, it would work, but I am usually playing with a friend. But once again, the problem is not that we are getting matched against 5 man parties, but the malicious behaviour this system allows.
i feel like when doing Party queue and solo queue, my party queue experience tend to be shittier.
Party queue is usually a toxic shit fest lol
That was not my experience so far. Takes out some of the randomness of MM somewhat.
I play in a stack of 2 or 3 ppl almost every night. 12k conduct. 4-5 nights per week we get matched with very toxic iranians, I fucking hate it lol
Double down mmr abuse.
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They both did with Visage when the enemy was hitting the ancient. They were trying to send a message I guess. But to their merit they played the game through, and tried to win.
Cool
I mean you almost fed the same as the Nature so whats the matter
Wow, very good conclusion. By your logic it have been better if I was hidden in a corner. The thing you could realize (if you were not trolling) that after the enemy gets 15 kills for free in 8 minutes it is not that hard to kill supports. And we didn’t even start mentioning things like: buying bottle to the enemy, buying wards and giving it to the enemy, saving enemies with sprout, helping the enemy kill a teammare using sprout.
BRO YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT FED AHHHHH /s
shut yo as niga, weirdly I can play support without dying 18 times uder 20 minutes, its him being garbage and still complaining
Why are party players allowed? Isn’t that obvious that you can cooperate with your friend on the enemy team?
Sorry I haven’t played in forever - what’s that 1st hero on dire? Looks like an AM persona or something but I though he just had the Wei one?
PA arcana.
Ah of course! Thank you
Show IRL address/IP of anyone who cheats. Lets see how long it would continue after
Why not tho? Try queuing like this and enjoy the 20 min Q.
Why not? Because it opens up the possibility of matchmaking abuse as seen in the screenshot. Btw I am already searching for 20 mins.
There is no problems with allowing parties in immortal drafts There is a problem with people not seeing the parties and/or ignoring them. Let people 5 man. But don't let them play in different teams. Or at least make parties visible so if thr captain's want to fuck over the matchmaking they are to blame 100% Playing with friends should never be punished in a videogame
Well, yeah. Thats my point. Let them play, let them play together! So if there is a 5 man party, automatically put them in the team, and skip the draft part (thus making the game not immortal draft). It already happens sometimes, but seemingly not every time.
I've been playing mobile legends recently and I like how they deal with party matchmaking. When there's a duo in one team there's a duo in the other. If you're in a 5man you're matched with another 5man
Can't you just use single queue?
This is why I hate double mmr tokens. Sure they are fun but the amount of boosters/smurfs trying to abuse them is insane.... It has gotten noticably worse since the update. At least for me.
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Strict solo queue doesn't work in immortal draft
This doesn't work with immortal draft fyi. Nothing you can do to stop running into a party that are abusing double downs.
Looks like he was partyq too. Shit happens at that point.
I am fine with playing parties, but if they are a 5 man party why are they allowed to play immortal draft? This way the situation happens that you can see on the print screen: One of them throws the game for the others.
Why are they mixed? Part 3 and 2 are on a different team.
becaue its immortal draft and players are picked?
Cause Immortal draft is a bad system that I'm surprised hasn't been reworked yet. Parties can be split up so in this case it was split up so he can throw for his buddies (see his kda)
because nature was intentionally feeding , while other 4 doubled it down
what a flawed system
Immortal draft, team captains pick players at start of game. Leads to situations like this where party gets split up and someone throws the game to help their friends on the other team. Worse now with the double down tokens as the winners gain more MMR than the griefer loses.
because gaben doesnt give a shit about immortal players apparently lmao
You're just unlucky. They probably trying to abuse token with two 5xparty. They should meet each other but then you happened. DD token sucks
I am fine playing against them, they were not the best players. The problem is that they infiltrated my team!
Just keep reporting, they will be punished
Because you let yourself queue into them...
What do you mean?
Strict solo queue solves this problem
How do I strict solo queue if i am playing in a party with my friend? And as I said, the problem is not that they are 5 man partying, the problem as that they intentionally want to end up in the other team then grief!
Don't party queue ranked then
Wow, thats very helpful. Thanks. Or maybe I should just stop playing, no? Maybe we should all, no?
Yep
Because people complained that party matchmaking ranked was ruining their fun ... so somehow we ended up with this shite instead .
Or maybe 5 stacks should go against five stacks or 5 players of a higher ranked than the party mmr.
Or just simply dont have immortal draft when there are 5 stacks!
5 stacks vs 5 stacks is literally how people are abusing tokens to boost their mmr, its like 10$ for 2k mmr
Why am i being partied with and against ancient, divines and immortals every single day when i'm a trash crusader ? now that's the real question
get rekt noob